Abby Wambach (3:34)

Damn. Okay, so most recently, I don't think it was meant as advice, but it was a shift that I have internalized as advice. So, Glenna, you and I were having lunch and this incredible woman, Justina Blakeney.

Amanda Doyle (3:53)

Oh, God, Jungalo. She's the absolute best.

Abby Wambach (3:56)

Yes, yes. She's amazing. I was sitting beside her at the lunch and they brought around this dessert tray and she said, are there any non dairy items on that tray? And there were like five delicious things. And the gentleman said, oh, no, there isn't. And she was like, okay, I pass. And I looked at her and I said, oh my gosh, you don't eat dairy. And there's no choices here. And I'm so sorry, do you want me to go ask if they have anything else? And she said the following. She said, no sorrys. It's self sovereignty. This is what she says to me. Not sorry, self sovereignty. And she proceeds to tell me about how she has recently decided that the decisions that she is making that make her feel better are understood to her to be from a place of self sovereignty as opposed to like something that is happening to her or like something the world is doing to her.

Amanda Doyle (5:11)

Depriving. It's not depriving her of.

Abby Wambach (5:14)

Yes. It's not deprivation. It is a decision that she is making of her own authority instead of something that the world is imposing on her. And I thought, well, I'll be damned.

Amanda Doyle (5:27)

And?

Abby Wambach (5:28)

And so she said, yes, it's self sovereignty. It's for the good of the realm. For the good of the realm. So her world is her realm, her family, her people, her ecosystem, her business. And when she decides that something is good for her, she makes the decision through her own self sovereignty and. And then declares it for the good of the realm.

Amanda Doyle (5:56)

And then she waves her arm. Please understand. She waves her arm as if she's gesturing to her realm, to her broad.

Abby Wambach (6:05)

And bountiful realm, and she says, for the good of the realm. And I have taken that internally as my new thing that I like to say. So if I'm going on a walk and. And the house is chaotic and there's too much to do and it's vastly inconvenient for everyone involved, I just wave my hand as I walk out the door and say, for the good of the realm. And then I do what I need to do.

Amanda Doyle (6:36)

Can we get into that a minute? Because that is funny and beautiful and queenly. Justina's very queenly. Everyone should just go to her Instagram at jungle and just see her so that you can, like, understand how amazing this is. What Justyna has done is reframe the entire bullshit of. But if I do this thing for myself, it's selfish. I can choose myself or I can choose my people. And so I choose my people. No, you can't. False dichotomy. When you serve yourself and make the decision for yourself, that flows out into everyone else. And they see your power and they see your strength, and they get permission to be that way.

Abby Wambach (7:17)

And even if they don't, it doesn't matter if they don't pick up the message, who the hell cares? You know that you are doing it for the good of the realm. Whether they see that or not or understand it or not, that is their business. Your business is to be self sovereign and to be the expert of yourself and to do the thing that you need to do and then declare it for the good of the realm. And all of the minions in the realm may or may not appreciate this.

Amanda Doyle (7:42)

About you, but so true, we can't tell.

Abby Wambach (7:44)

It reminded me of episode 33 really early on when we were talking about what the hell does brave mean? And maybe brave is just being the expert of you and just doing that whether or not people understand it. That's the self sovereignty part. It's like, no, I'm doing this not as a reaction to a collective decision and understanding that this is the right thing for me. I'm just doing it because I alone am the expert of me. And that's the sovereignty part. And then I also know that as the leader of this realm, what is good for me is good for you, whether your ass knows it or not. Yeah, for the good of the realm.

Amanda Doyle (8:30)

And I know I'm probably for you focusing too much on the other person, but I think what people think is what that means is what is good for me. Is the same thing that's good for you. So we're good. And I don't think that's what it means. I think it means what. What's good for you is to see me doing what's good for me so that you too, will understand that you need to do what's good for you.

Glennon Doyle (8:50)

Yes.

Amanda Doyle (8:51)

It's a modeling of a process, Not a particular thing that's gonna be good for everybody. So let's think of some things that pod squatters can do for the good of the realm today. Like, for example, if you're home and your whole family's driving you batshit, and you walk into your bedroom and you're gonna take a nap before you go close the door, you yell out your door for the good of the realm. And then you close the door.

Abby Wambach (9:16)

Yes. And then you.

Amanda Doyle (9:18)

This sort of thing.

Glennon Doyle (9:19)

Well, and I just want to say, I. I think that there's so many folks that are listening right now that are probably thinking, that sounds nice in theory. How do I begin this? Right. Like, it does take an act of bravery to begin this escapade, this, like, active adventure into becoming self sovereign. And I think that one thing that I have learned from Justina is that she is regal. And that kind of regal honor that she gives herself actually makes me want to do that for myself. And so when I think about our children and I think about all the things that especially teenagers, they don't really listen to necessarily the words that are coming out of our mouths, but they watch what we do. And if we are acting in service of ourselves, then they will start doing that for themselves. And I just. I know that it's hard, but just try it.

Amanda Doyle (10:10)

Yeah, I love it. I love it.

Abby Wambach (10:12)

It reminds me of, like, I walk around, I'm like, so good in all these areas, and I'm like, oh, isn't it cute and funny and kind of quirky that I'm not good at taking care of myself? That's bullshit.

Amanda Doyle (10:23)

Yeah.

Abby Wambach (10:24)

The self sovereignty. That is the difference between the people we see as martyrs and the people we see as. As regal in the ultimate self integrity sense. You can't be both. You can't be sovereign and not be sovereign over yourself.

Amanda Doyle (10:44)

That's right.

Abby Wambach (10:45)

Then you're not sovereign. You're something else. You're like. You're performing goodness. But when you apply the same wisdom in decision making and the same efficacy towards yourself as you do to everything else in your life, that's when you are a realm creator. That's when you're really Doing it.

Amanda Doyle (11:05)

It's really good. Yeah. And when you're, you know, the sovereign thing versus, like the servant thing, which is what I was always taught in Christian culture, like, be a servant, be a servant, be a servant. There is such a bitterness that comes with that that you can't help but be when you're in that place. And that sort of bitterness of martyrdom is such a burden for people around you, like, for your kids, for whatever. It's like such a shift in giving them a gift and a baton of freedom as opposed to giving them the burden of knowing that you really believe in your heart that you're dying for them. And Justina's like, I'm living for you. My role is to live for my realm, not to die for my realm.

Glennon Doyle (11:58)

It's really good.

Abby Wambach (11:59)

Yeah. It also, for me, it makes me more comfortable around people and trust people more and feel less self conscious or insecure around people who I know are this way. I have a friend, Laura, who does what she wants, who says what she thinks, who will not do things begrudgingly or what she doesn't want to do.

Amanda Doyle (12:23)

Yeah.

Abby Wambach (12:24)

And the freedom and ease I feel around her because I'm never questioning, oh, is she mad about this, or does she really want to do this? That is all taken care of. Like, she wouldn't be doing it if she didn't want to do it.

Amanda Doyle (12:37)

Yeah.

Abby Wambach (12:37)

There's just like a freedom in that in a relationship, because there isn't this questioning situation.

Glennon Doyle (12:42)

Yeah. You know what you're gonna get?

Amanda Doyle (12:44)

Trust. Trust. Yeah. Love it. It reminds me of what Lizzie said to me when I was trying to decide whether to leave my marriage that was sort of already broken. But I was giving her the whole spiel of like, but he's a good man and he's this. And he's gonna be sad forever. And I can't do this to him, and I can't do this to him. And she said, it's so clear. Clear that you are desperate to liberate yourself. And what you need to remember is that there's no such thing as one way liberation. I know we've said this before, but I'll say it again every sixth episode. When you're tied to somebody who you're not supposed to be with or you're in a place you're not supposed to be and you're staying out of some sense of obligation, when you're in a shitty relationship, whether it's a friendship or whatever, you, the other person is usually not also living their best life. When you decide to remove yourself from a situation that is not meant for you, it automatically gives the other person liberation to find where they were meant to be or with whom they're meant to be. It's for the good of the realm, as it were. As it were. Yeah.

Tina Yalen (14:03)

Foreign.

Abby Wambach (14:09)

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Glennon Doyle (16:19)

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Amanda Doyle (17:30)

Babe, do you have a a best advice?

Glennon Doyle (17:32)

Yes.

Amanda Doyle (17:33)

Oh great.

Glennon Doyle (17:34)

I do. I've been given a lot of advice in my life and mine is a little bit too pronged because I've evolved it in my own personal way, which I think is really important in all pieces of advice because blanket statements may be good for you. But not totally long ago when I was training on the national team, somebody said to me, and I can't even remember who it was, so long ago they said, you never know how good you can be unless you try. And that really, really rang true for me because on the national team, our whole thing is like we're just pursuing growth and excellence. Sometimes that means we win, sometimes that meant we lost. I mean, we won more than we lost.

Abby Wambach (18:21)

Let the record show.

Glennon Doyle (18:22)

Yeah, let the record show. But as an athlete, you're trying to make these marginal gains and every single day you're going out and you're trying to get a little bit better, a little bit better. And it can become really difficult in your mind to understand, like, well, what am I doing this for? And you're searching for a dream or a goal that's never been attained. And how does somebody do that? And honestly, it's like the continuing to show up every single day and to try to get those marginal gains. But the other piece of this puzzle that I didn't understand until my coach, Pia Sundaga came into my life is that you can believe in something, but you also, I believe deeply in my bones that you have to have a community around you that also believes in that something too for you. So a lot of the people who are in sports are like, when you have goals, write them down and when you have a goal, tell somebody about it. But Pia in 2011 just kept whispering in my ear. And I think I've talked about this before. She just kept whispering in my ear, best player in the world, 2011. Best player in the world, 2011. And I didn't know that that was a thing that I could even be thinking about as something to strive for. And so she just kept reinforcing this thing. The beginning of every camp, she would whisper it in my ear. Now, I didn't win it in 2011. I ended up winning it in 2012. But it's something that was like this little dream bubble inside of me that I couldn't necessarily communicate to the outside world because it felt so surreal and so unattainable. And then this other person comes into my world, and she starts putting this idea that rang true to me in my head and in my body, that it's like the universe made it happen. I honestly don't believe that I had much to do with it. I know that I had to go out and play and do my thing, but. Because from the time that I was a little kid, I was dreaming about something that wasn't even possible. Dreaming about being a professional athlete. Dreaming about playing women's soccer wasn't even a professional sport. Dreaming about it. Dreaming about it. And the only reason why I was able to actually fulfill this thing that wasn't even possible when I was a child is because I tried. You know, so many of us, we start our lives and we think about our days, and we think about our dreams, and so many of us. I don't know, I feel like if you don't try, you will never, ever have a chance at whatever your dream is. And so it's the idea that, yes, you never know if you can do something unless you try. And surrounding yourself with. With just one other person that might believe that to be true, too.

Abby Wambach (21:21)

Yeah.

Glennon Doyle (21:23)

That's why I'm, like, the biggest believer of all of us in our family.

Amanda Doyle (21:27)

Yeah. And I feel like this is something that's really a difference or, like, a point of friction in our family and. And Right.

Glennon Doyle (21:39)

Like, yeah.

Amanda Doyle (21:41)

Abby in many ways has been. You know, in Michelle Obama's episode, she talked about, like, Barack Obama being her biggest disruptor and vice versa. And Abby has been, for sure the biggest disruptor in my world, meaning, like, a lot of my worldviews, a lot of my ideas about the way things work, she just challenged. And so I'm in a lot of more flux than I used to be. Now the way this dreamer believer thing plays out, it's like every good thing can also Be a challenge, right? So with the kids, one of the kids applying to college, and Abby's like, I believe you're gonna get into every single college that you apply to.

Glennon Doyle (22:26)

Now, you should have seen Glennon's face when I said that.

Abby Wambach (22:29)

This is irresponsible recklessness.

Amanda Doyle (22:31)

It is. That's what I said. Like, I smiled in the moment. And then we went in the thing, and I was like, you can't do that. First of all, we could do a whole nother episode on the unbelievable impossibility of college for kids right now and getting in, but I am so much more comfortable or I feel like it's more responsible or kinder to hedge bets because I'm so afraid that if Abby says this amazing thing is going to happen, and I believe then if it doesn't happen, the kid will feel like it's a disappointment. Like, Abby will be disappointed or. And so my take is like, we don't know what the hell's gonna. Of course we believe in you, but we don't know this process. We don't know the world. And so anything could happen. And no matter what happens, it's gonna be okay. We're gonna work through it. You likely couldn't get into all the call. And then we go the other way. Like, one of our kids is dating someone, and I can't take.

Glennon Doyle (23:33)

Oh, my God.

Amanda Doyle (23:34)

We didn't have a lot of dating before. For the older kids, it feels so scary.

Glennon Doyle (23:38)

What did you say to our kid?

Amanda Doyle (23:40)

So when a child falls in love, it is the most out of control, scary thing in the world for a parent, because let's face it, it doesn't end well. It just doesn't end well.

Glennon Doyle (23:53)

Is that true?

Abby Wambach (23:55)

If I'm a betting man, I'm going on X nay with a love.

Amanda Doyle (24:00)

A Right. But I'm going to explain to you what I did, and then I don't want any voicemails about it. I want the pod squad to know that I know this wasn't the right thing to do. And I am growing, and I am telling you in a vulnerable way, and I have learned since then. But what Abby wants me to tell you, so I will tell you, is that my kid came home, she's in love, we did the whole thing. Yay. Yay.

Glennon Doyle (24:31)

Was when she first came home with a massive crush.

Amanda Doyle (24:33)

A crush, Right.

Glennon Doyle (24:34)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (24:35)

Okay. And I said to her, we got in the car and I said, baby, do you know why they call it a crush? And she said, why? And I said, because it always, always crushes you. Like in. In the end it's like it feels good and happy and butterfly and open. But it will crush you. There is going to come a moment where it all breaks bad and your little heart is going to be smushed and crushed. I said that to my child. Okay. That is what I chose to say to my child about love. Love wins. Love warrior. You will be crushed.

Abby Wambach (25:23)

Carry on Warrior. Right until you're crushed.

Amanda Doyle (25:27)

And I got home and I explained to Abby the conversation that we had. And Abby looked at me like a murderer. And I was a murderer. I was a murderer of love.

Abby Wambach (25:44)

Different kind of love warrior.

Amanda Doyle (25:47)

But I guess these are diverging paths of advice. The hopeful it will happen. You can do it. Now. I want to tell you something Abby keeps telling our children that these amazing things can happen that I feel like are reckless and then they keep happening. So I don't have a lot of proof for my worldview yet, but I know eventually it's gonna all break bad and I'm gonna be right.

Glennon Doyle (26:20)

It's not about being right though. My belief in whatever they want to go for in their life doesn't mean that they are going to always get it. But one thing I know that is certain is if they don't try, that is what the failure is. If they don't try to go after the things that are the most important to them, that they feel the most passionate about, that they feel most pulled to do. If you don't try to go towards those things, that is when you actually fail. It's not whether they get into every college or not. I just think it's more important for a person on this planet to feel something, to be activated and to be drawn to the thing and to go for it.

Amanda Doyle (27:03)

I just wanted to say I like your way better.

Glennon Doyle (27:07)

Oh.

Amanda Doyle (27:07)

And like I feel because I think the goal is for them to have their hearts open. I think what I was telling is I'm so scared that your heart's gonna be broken that I'm telling you this right now. So you will keep part of your heart closed. And that is the opposite of what we want. We want our kids to go into the world open hearted and try. It's like.

Glennon Doyle (27:29)

And try.

Amanda Doyle (27:29)

It's like the idea of like, yeah, the world will break us, but we're not gonna break them first. Like let the world tell them they're not good enough. Let the world whatever. But they're not gonna not find belief from the people who love them the most.

Glennon Doyle (27:45)

And also I don't think the world is going to break us. I think the world is gonna teach us. I think language does matter here. Like every heartbreak of my life was the most important lesson I needed to learn. I know, and it sucks to watch your kids go through it. You're the one who said, grab your kid's hand, walk them through the fires of their life. Because what our job is, is to teach them that they are fireproof.

Amanda Doyle (28:08)

Yeah, that advice was for other people. No, I 100% know you're right. It's just the fear in me that shows up and then wants to protect. And protecting your kids from their lives and from love is tragic.

Glennon Doyle (28:24)

I think it's ironic though, because you are one of the most fearless lovers. You love these children. I don't know, maybe it's a protective me measure for yourself.

Abby Wambach (28:36)

For sure it is. 100% is.

Amanda Doyle (28:38)

What do you mean? Tell me more about that.

Abby Wambach (28:41)

Well, first of all, I want to say, Abby, your part about trying to curb like you would never have had the audacity to say I want to be the best player in the world unless someone else affirmed it for you as a. A conceivable goal. And so what you're doing is trying to say, like, don't tamp down your potential. Don't self edit your dreams. Be as audacious as you want to be, or that any part of your desires wants to be, because that's how you find out. And so that's a beautiful thing because of all the self editing that happens, especially with girls. Is that too ambitious? Is that too aggressive? Is that whatever it is? And then G Bird, of course, it's like they're loving reading a book and it's the best and they're falling in love with the characters and whatever. And you're like, well, I just want to tell you because I see you just. And best friend's this way, best way.

Amanda Doyle (29:35)

So are you sure you want to keep going?

Abby Wambach (29:37)

Are you sure you want to keep going? I'm preparing you. But that's not the way. It's a fiction. Like, that's not gonna. That's not gonna change what they decide to do, you know, it's going to end that way, very likely. And you just have to wait for it to play out.

Amanda Doyle (29:54)

And it's not going to stop the heartbreak part, it's just going to poison the love part. It's just going to poison.

Abby Wambach (29:59)

Or it's going to poison her relationship with you, because I doubt it even poisons the love part. You're giving yourself a lot of credit of getting through to her. There's no way in hell that she believes.

Amanda Doyle (30:09)

But I put something in the back of her head that maybe. I don't know.

Abby Wambach (30:14)

I don't know. I think she's probably just as in love as she was gonna be before you said that. And is gonna be dressed as crushed as she was gonna be before you said it.

Amanda Doyle (30:22)

Yeah.

Abby Wambach (30:22)

It's a fiction that you think that you're gonna prevent it.

Amanda Doyle (30:25)

It's.

Glennon Doyle (30:25)

Yeah. But it's also a truth that Glennon is searing into that when it happens, because it will likely happen at some point in her life. She will get heartbroken. She will remember when her mom said this to her, and she will remember that. Oh, yeah, my mom. And so that's the moment. It's not now. It's when it happens. Is that she might draw that conclusion.

Amanda Doyle (30:47)

In a bad way, you mean?

Glennon Doyle (30:48)

I think so. You've rebounded from it. We've had the conversation. Because I was like, that's ridiculous. That's not right.

Abby Wambach (30:55)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (30:55)

We circled back, circle back, circle back.

Abby Wambach (30:58)

And went, just psych. Everything's great. It's gonna be awesome. You'll probably get married.

Amanda Doyle (31:02)

No. We explained that it was mom's fear and that sometimes she tries to control beautiful things by warning everyone that they will end.

Abby Wambach (31:12)

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Glennon Doyle (32:20)

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Amanda Doyle (33:22)

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Abby Wambach (33:25)

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Amanda Doyle (34:07)

So here I want to tell my precious beloved POD squad this that I have been thinking about this episode for several weeks. Usually what I tell myself is think about this interview today and then I think about it all day. This one I have been thinking about forever and I find it amazing because I am a human being who has written lots of books with what could be considered advice in it, who has been talking for a decade and a half with what could be considered advice, I guess. And what I want to tell you is that I could not think of anything. And when I say that I could not think of anything, finally yesterday morning in my yoga class, I was like, oh, I think you're just supposed to talk about how you don't have any. I don't think it's going to pop into your head and you're going to have the thing. I think the thing is that you're supposed to talk about how at this point in your life there is nothing that I can think of that I could say is correct and true. All the time I keep thinking about that Ernest Hemingway thing, like all you have to do is write one true sentence. That was advice to writers. But if you told Me that that was my assignment right now. I could not do it. I cannot think of any set of words that I could say that feel like they would be applicable to everyone at all times. Like, the truest thing I know right now is, I guess, just like sitting in a room with someone. I got this tattoo a decade and a half ago. It says, be still. Like that. No, that's not true. All the time. Like, sometimes the last thing I need to do is be still. I need to move my ass.

Abby Wambach (35:59)

Suzanne Stabile just came on here and said your ass needs to be doing.

Amanda Doyle (36:03)

Which is true, right? Like. Like make a boundary, you know, I boundaried myself up so much that I turned into a freaking island that no one could reach. Love everyone. No. I extend myself so much, and then I get bit in the ass. Like, no. It's like I don't know anything. That is what I'm telling you. I don't know anything. And I find it feels a little bit alarming.

Glennon Doyle (36:33)

I mean, you are the most serious person I have ever met in my whole life. First of all, you are the smartest person I've ever met. And also, this simple exercise you can't do is the most amazing thing. And it's true for you.

Amanda Doyle (36:48)

It has driven me batshit. But what I'm telling you is I don't think that I'm not smart. I'm not saying I'm not smart, so I don't know anything. I'm saying I think I am finally smart enough to know I don't know shit.

Glennon Doyle (37:02)

Oof.

Amanda Doyle (37:03)

I think I am finally.

Abby Wambach (37:04)

So do you not know shit about you or do you not know shit to say to someone else? Because there's a difference. Are there true things you can say about you?

Amanda Doyle (37:12)

No.

Abby Wambach (37:14)

Oh, okay.

Amanda Doyle (37:15)

What I know is that I got sober when I was 25 years old. I'd been lost addiction since then. I was 25. Started having babies. Baby, baby, baby. Building the business, doing all the things, telling all the people, saying all the words. I have not been in touch with my own self and my own body and the fluidity of being human and being a creature on the earth. And so what I know is what I need to do or want to do or feel into next. And so I can't put that into words because it won't be true in four minutes.

Glennon Doyle (37:48)

Fuck. It's annoying how true this conversation is.

Amanda Doyle (37:52)

What I know is that I can have moments of truth with another human being, that I can feel truth when I'm outside, that I can feel the Truth of love when I'm next to someone. But putting things down into words and saying that this is true, I don't. I can't. I can't do it. I feel like that in itself is a moment of freedom and truth for me.

Abby Wambach (38:14)

But you have gotten advice in the past that has led you to that. I remember when Martha Beck told you, go towards what feels warm and go away from what feels cold. That was advice that triggered you to understand that you weren't in touch with yourself as a creature and that there was a thing that would eventually, if you paid attention to it enough, feel what felt warm and what felt cold.

Amanda Doyle (38:47)

Yes. And then there was a moment in my life this year that when I got an anorexia diagnosis, that nothing felt harder and more horrible and colder than going towards the understanding of that diagnosis. And then I still knew that I needed to do that. There have been guiding forces. I would say right now, the closest I could get. I thought about this one. I thought about saying this one. I was talking to Liz Gilbert about some things and my relationships, and she said something very simple that was. It is amazing how when you take care of yourself, the universe takes care of everything else. I know that sounds so simple, but that is where I am right now. That is not. I don't think that's possible for you with your children's ages. I don't. It was true for me when I had a bunch of little kids in a new business. There are things like principles that have guided me well through certain periods of my life and then are completely untrue in the next part of my life.

Glennon Doyle (39:49)

It's like, is truth even possible? Like, what is truth?

Amanda Doyle (39:54)

Togetherness. I think aligned is a good thing for me right now. Like, I feel like I need to be aligned, meaning when I am doing the things that keep me calm, when I'm staying present, when I'm getting fresh air, when I'm drinking my water, when I'm doing my stretching, when I'm doing the most basic things. I seem to be prepared. Not in a way of like, I used to be prepared. I used to prepare by overthinking, by controlling, by making sure I knew everything that was going to happen. Now I feel like preparedness is a common nervous system is being so filled up that I can respond, that I can be responsible, meaning I can respond to. To something someone says or some. A problem someone brings to me in kindness and like a feeling of joy and not scarcity. I can be prepared. Meaning I am fully here. I'm Fully calm. And then that makes me feel aligned. Sometimes recently, I'll be like, I can't believe that, like, that happened. And then I was able to say that thing. Whereas had I been stressed and busy, I would not have been able to meet that moment. There is, like, an alignment that comes with really being in touch with what is happening inside my body. And I need in the moment, and then I'm able to meet what other people need in the moment, what the world needs from me in a moment in a way that I haven't been able to do before, because I've come with too many preconceived notions and advice and rules and expectations and whatever. And now it's like everything is constantly shifting.

Glennon Doyle (41:46)

And I think for a person like me, the way that you're thinking and talking about this feels the most true, but also it feels like the most scary because I like to have more structure.

Amanda Doyle (41:58)

Yeah. It's like, advice is dogma. It's like a religion. Like, it's. You know, we put together all the words, and then. Yeah, and then what if it's not true tomorrow?

Abby Wambach (42:08)

When you said that, I just realized for the first time ever that responsible means able to respond. I mean, responsible doesn't mean coming with your script of exactly what you need to say and exactly what you need to do, because zero. Part of that involves a response that's just a soliloquy or a sermon.

Amanda Doyle (42:32)

But.

Abby Wambach (42:32)

But when you are able to respond, then you're responsible. Huh. That'll get you thinking.

Amanda Doyle (42:42)

We think of responsible as like, I have taken on all of these burdens. I am responsible for this, for whatever, as opposed to responsible being what I've done, whatever I need to do to be able to respond fully to what comes in this minute, in this hour, in this whatever.

Abby Wambach (43:00)

Mm.

Amanda Doyle (43:04)

So once again, I fucked up our advice episode.

Abby Wambach (43:08)

Sure have.

Amanda Doyle (43:09)

All right.

Abby Wambach (43:09)

Tried to get you to say something.

Amanda Doyle (43:12)

Love wins.

Abby Wambach (43:13)

Sarah Bareilles will. Will tell us something. We asked her when she was in that amazing episode 141, one of my favorite episodes ever, how to remember Yourself. And she came back to tell us her best advice. So let's hear from her on that.

Amanda Doyle (43:31)

So, Sarah, what is the best advice that you've ever received from another human being that you keep with you and Carol Kane?

Sara Bareilles (43:41)

It's easy. This one's easy. I was standing side stage at the Rock and Roll hall of Fame induction ceremony. I was honoring Laura Nero, and I was singing a song of hers, and I was standing next to Carole King, and that was the first time I ever met Carole King, who is a hero of mine. And I was so nervous. I was singing a song I didn't know that well, honoring an artist I didn't know that well. All my imposter syndrome stuff was, like, so loud, and I was just shaking in my boots, standing side stage, getting ready to go on. And Carol just put her arm around my waist, and she's like, get out of your own way. Go do the thing. Just like, get out of your own way. They already love you. And, I mean, she was the same way. We performed together on the Grammys a couple years later, singing Brave and her song, beautiful, A mashup of that. And she's just a real beacon of, like, if I could, I'll have what she's having. Like, she's got so much generosity of spirit. The coolest people I've ever met are not holding on to any of it. You know what I mean? Like, they're just like, there is enough for everyone. Give it away. Generosity of spirit. Go do the thing. You're so badass. There's so much to give. And the more you give, the more you get. It's so cliche, but it's really so true. And that was a moment I'll never forget. And I fucking killed it.

Glennon Doyle (45:12)

Yes.

Amanda Doyle (45:14)

And she got a kick out of herself on that stage, I bet.

Sara Bareilles (45:17)

And I looked good.

Abby Wambach (45:17)

So, so cute.

Sara Bareilles (45:19)

My hair was behind my ear.

Amanda Doyle (45:25)

Does it get better than Sara Bareilles?

Abby Wambach (45:27)

It does not. Indeed.

Amanda Doyle (45:29)

Oh, my God. So before we wrap our first advice episode, I want to talk about one of the best advice givers that I've ever known in my life. I would say probably Liz Gilbert and then Mrs. Yellen. Okay. Mrs. Yalen.

Glennon Doyle (45:44)

She's gonna be pissed.

Amanda Doyle (45:45)

I know. Okay, Tina. Tina Yalen is my seventh grade government teacher. Okay. She has been in my life since seventh grade.

Abby Wambach (45:56)

Also my seventh grade government teacher.

Amanda Doyle (45:58)

Yes, yes. Tina Yellen. She still comes to our house. She now loves Abby maybe even more than me.

Abby Wambach (46:06)

She sends me cookies every Hanukkah.

Amanda Doyle (46:08)

Yeah, she sends cookies to us, too. She's been a guide and a sage and a friend to so many of her students. Here's just one story about Mrs. Yellen. There's been 7 million. But a lot of years ago, I decided to become a minister. Okay. Like, a real minister.

Abby Wambach (46:28)

Meaning applied for and got accepted to a seminary.

Amanda Doyle (46:32)

Correct. I declined to and got accepted to seminary. Okay. I was going to become a minister of a church. And honestly, this had always been a little bit. You know, I started Monastery. I started it because of my obsession with monasteries. When I was little, my mom told me when I took my first career aptitude test, it came back and said I should be a nun.

Abby Wambach (46:55)

Okay, that's interesting.

Amanda Doyle (46:57)

So this has always been in me, right? So I call Mrs. Yellen, and I'm like, I just got accepted to seminary. I'm gonna go to seminary. And she goes, why? I said, well, because I want. I just feel like I want to be, like, the leader of a church. Like, I want to create a community of people who are doing good things and who are loving each other and the truest, most beautiful little world I can imagine. And she goes, you're already doing that. And I said, what? And she said, you already have a church. And I said, no, I wanted, like, a church with walls. Like an actual church, not like an Internet church. A church with walls. She goes, what could be worse than a church with walls? When you have a church without walls already, why do you need walls?

Abby Wambach (47:57)

So what, you. You're going to seminary to get walls?

Amanda Doyle (48:00)

That's what you're doing? And so I said, okay, I'm. I guess I'm not going to seminary. Mrs. Yellen said, no.

Abby Wambach (48:09)

Please send more cookies while I process this new information.

Amanda Doyle (48:11)

Mrs. Yellen said, no. Thank God.

Abby Wambach (48:17)

She's the best.

Amanda Doyle (48:18)

So the reason we're bringing up Mrs. Yellen is because Tina, beloved. Tina. Sorry. She's the man, said I.

Glennon Doyle (48:25)

She, like, yelled at us the last time she was here. She said once and for all. She goes, call me Tina.

Amanda Doyle (48:29)

She goes, I heard you call Michelle Obama Michelle. If you can call Michelle Obama Michelle, you can call Mrs. Yellen, Tina. So Emily from our team sent us an email with a voicemail in it the other day. She said, I think your friend Mrs. Yellen left us a voicemail, Tina. So just please listen to this. POD Squad. This is the Tina Yellen leaving a voicemail on our mission and a good.

Abby Wambach (48:58)

Time to shout out all the teachers everywhere who are. Not only do they do talk about ministers of the people.

Amanda Doyle (49:06)

Oh, my God.

Abby Wambach (49:07)

Doing God's work every damn day for all the people. Remember, she was going through the National Board certification process when during the time we had her, which is the highest certification you could get for teachers, she was doing that to do it. Like, just to do it. And Bobby's teacher this year, Mrs. Hughes, she was going through the same process. And teachers are so badass.

Amanda Doyle (49:30)

Side note, when I was an eighth grader, I was so in love, like, deeply, passionately in love with this boy named Chris who was a senior. Okay. And he was like, you were in eighth grade. Yeah, but he didn't know who I was. I just was like, I was infatuated and obsessed.

Abby Wambach (49:48)

It was a crush. It's called a crush because it's going to crush you.

Amanda Doyle (49:51)

It did crush me. Chris was so hot, and he had long blonde hair. He was a total metalhead. I was a total metalhead. Headbangers Ball was my favorite show. I was in love with Jamie Lane.

Abby Wambach (50:04)

At the Centipedes Festival.

Amanda Doyle (50:05)

Jamie Lane. Sebastian Bach. I wanted to marry Sebastian Bach.

Glennon Doyle (50:08)

This story sucks.

Amanda Doyle (50:10)

Skid row. Well, I mean, here's the deal. They all had really long hair.

Glennon Doyle (50:13)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (50:14)

But this so is my. It was a gateway. The point being that I was just obsessed with a senior named Crisp. And then I walk into, like, Senior teacher day, and Mrs. Yalen had arranged for Crisp to be the teacher because she knew that I was so obsessed with him. And then she put me right in the front row.

Glennon Doyle (50:34)

Oh, boy.

Amanda Doyle (50:35)

And I was so excited. And she just sat there and laughed at me the whole.

Glennon Doyle (50:40)

Okay, I hate this story. I hate any crush stories that you have.

Amanda Doyle (50:44)

All right, let's hear from Mrs. Yellen.

Tina Yalen (50:46)

Hi, this is Tina Yalen. I don't miss an episode, but this is the first time I've actually called in. You asked about things that delight us, and I just knew I had to respond. I am hit with intense delight whenever you invite me into your home for a visit and give me a couple of hours of your precious time. We talk about things light and deep, we laugh, we might shed a tear, but every time I leave, I am deeply joyful, knowing I was given a gift. To me, there's nothing more worthy of delight than when people you love give you their time. I feel this delight with many of my former students, like you, Glennon, who have chosen to keep me in their lives. And grateful doesn't even begin to capture that for me. I'm already looking forward to our next visit. The only thing that would make it even more delightful would be if Amanda, who was also a student of mine, were there with us. To all of you podcasters out there, know this. These incredible women are exactly who you think they are in person. Authentic, honest, thoughtful, insightful, curious, kind, and funny. I love them, and nothing gives me more delight than being in their company.

Glennon Doyle (52:03)

Thanks, Tina.

Amanda Doyle (52:07)

I think we should have Mrs. Tina on the pod.

Glennon Doyle (52:10)

We should. I tell you what, she comes over and this woman is just a ball of energy. What she calls herself. She's a whip. A work in progress.

Amanda Doyle (52:19)

Yeah.

Glennon Doyle (52:20)

And I love that.

Amanda Doyle (52:21)

And I will tell you, I just remembered. She says something to me repeatedly when she leaves our house each time. And I think this one might be true. She says to me because she was.

Abby Wambach (52:31)

Wait people, Glennon's about to admit that something might be true.

Amanda Doyle (52:34)

No, no, no, no, no, please. I actually don't. She listens to every every single podcast, so she knows all of our stuff and all of our struggles. And so she grabbed me by the shoulders before she left last time and she said, glennon, please understand that there is nothing wrong with you.

Abby Wambach (53:01)

Now that is some good ass advice.

Amanda Doyle (53:05)

So I can admit that that is true for everyone else.

Abby Wambach (53:09)

Hot squatters, A ridiculous human.

Amanda Doyle (53:12)

What I want to say to you is I want to hold you by the shoulders and say there is nothing wrong with you. And perhaps the only thing that has ever been wrong with us is the wild wrong idea that there is something wrong with us. Yeah. And I think what Mrs. Yellen is trying to say to me after 70 years on this earth is please stop wasting your precious time on this planet thinking that you are a mystery to solve when there is so much beauty to just enjoy.

Glennon Doyle (53:48)

Damn, it's good to end on.

Amanda Doyle (53:50)

We love you POD Squad. There is not a damn thing wrong with you. Love you Tina. Bye bye Foreign if this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode. And it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the Weekend Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things. It's is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner and Bill Schultz.