The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough" We Can Do Hard Things - Hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle

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Introduction

In the December 19, 2024 episode of We Can Do Hard Things, host Abby Wambach welcomes Riley Keough, an Emmy, Golden Globe, and Independent Spirit Award-nominated actress. Riley is not only known for her roles in Daisy Jones and the Six, Zola, and War Pony, but she is also the granddaughter of the legendary Elvis Presley and the author of the poignant memoir From Here to the Great Unknown. The episode delves deep into Riley's exploration of her family's complex legacy, the intertwining of love and trauma, and the journey of healing through loss.

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Setting the Stage: Who is Riley Keough?

Riley introduces herself as the eldest daughter of Lisa Marie Presley and Danny Keough, and the sole trustee of Graceland. Her memoir, co-written with her mother’s voice memos, offers an intimate look into the Presley family dynamics beyond the glitz and fame associated with Elvis Presley.

Notable Quote:

Abby Wambach [06:19]: "We are sharing with you a conversation that we had with Riley Keough. If you don't know who Riley Keough is, she is an actor, a deeply feeling, thinking, spiritual person who is so lovely to listen to and learn from."

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Family Legacy: Beyond Elvis Presley

Riley emphasizes that while her lineage includes the iconic Elvis Presley, her family's story is rooted in universal experiences of love, loss, and survival. She explains how her mother, Lisa Marie Presley, struggled with personal grief and addiction, stemming from generational trauma and the pressures of being Elvis’s only child.

Notable Quote:

Riley Keough [09:15]: "My mother was a wonderfully unique and fierce and incredibly strong woman and mother who had a really unique life... There is a lot of generational trauma on both sides of my family."

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Trauma and Grief: Navigating Unfinished Stories

The conversation delves into the profound impact of losing her father at a young age and how this loss shaped her mother's ability to process grief. Riley discusses the duality of her mother's public persona and private struggles, highlighting the collective grief shared by the Presley family with the world.

Notable Quote:

Riley Keough [10:10]: "The grief of losing my father really dictated a lot of my mother's life and the way she wasn't really able to process it... there is a lot of generational trauma."

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Addiction and Recovery: A Family Battle

Riley opens up about her mother's battle with addiction, detailing the progression from prescribed painkillers to more severe substance abuse. She recounts the challenges they faced, including her mother's stint in rehab and the eventual stabilization of her sobriety, only to be tested by the tragic loss of Riley's brother, Ben.

Notable Quote:

Riley Keough [40:33]: "She was taking these pills at night to sleep, and it spiraled out of control... she ended up in heart failure in Cedars Sinai in LA."

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Loss of Ben: Coping with Tragedy

The heart of the episode centers on the devastating loss of Riley's brother, Ben, to suicide. She describes Ben as a beautiful soul—kind, sensitive, and deeply connected to his family. This loss not only deepened the family's grief but also influenced her mother's final days, leading to her own passing shortly after.

Notable Quote:

Riley Keough [34:32]: "Ben was incredibly kind and sensitive... one of the most important things to say about suicide is that someone you wouldn't imagine taking their life can still succumb to it."

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Reflections and Insights: Healing Through Honesty

Riley shares her journey of surrendering to grief and finding hope beyond loss. She reflects on her mother's unwavering honesty and how it shaped her own approach to parenting and personal growth. The episode underscores the importance of authentic communication and the healing power of sharing one's story.

Notable Quote:

Riley Keough [50:55]: "I choose to feel more hopeful... something I've really not liked in my grief experience is this sort of feeling around death that it's like a failure."

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Conclusion: Carrying the Legacy Forward

As the conversation wraps up, Riley emphasizes the significance of love and the continuity of family legacy. She honors her mother's strength and vulnerability, advocating for a future where personal stories of pain and beauty coexist to foster resilience and connection.

Notable Quote:

Riley Keough [53:53]: "To me, a successful life is the ability to give and receive love... my mother was exceptional at one of those things."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of We Can Do Hard Things offers a raw and heartfelt exploration of the Presley family's legacy through Riley Keough's lens. It highlights the universal struggles of grief, addiction, and the quest for healing, all while celebrating the enduring bonds of family and the power of honest storytelling.

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Notable Section Skipped:

• Advertisements: The transcript included several commercial segments promoting NetSuite, Masterclass, Quint, Alma, Bombas, Ring, and Airbnb. These were omitted from the summary to maintain focus on the episode's core content.

Transcript

[Glennon Doyle]

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[Abby Wambach]

Hi everybody. Oh my goodness. The conversation today just, I don't know, wherever you are, just like take a deep breath and if you don't have a hot cup of tea, just you're about to feel like you do. We are sharing with you a conversation that we had with Riley Keough. And if you don't know who Riley Keough is, she is. Well, she's an actor. She is a deeply feeling, thinking, spiritual person who is so lovely to listen to and learn from. She is also the granddaughter of Elvis Presley. She's the daughter of Lisa Marie Presley, and she released a book called From Here to the Great Unknown and Padswad. What I need you to know about this book before we get into the interview Is that her mother, Lisa Marie, before she died, she was preparing to write a book, a memoir. And the way she was doing that was she was recording herself. Like, imagine long voice memos where she's just telling her own story to herself. Okay. She felt like she couldn't pull the memoir together, so she asked her daughter Riley to help her with it. Riley said, yes, I'll help you with this. And then Lisa Marie died. So I want you to imagine Riley then recommitting after her mother's death to finishing her mother's story and listening, sitting and listening to her mother's voice memos and listening to her mom tell her own story. All the pain, all the loss, all the trauma, all the beauty. So that's what Riley did. She sat and listened to these voice memos from her mother, and then she filled in the blanks. Literally. She wrote the book is made up of Lisa Marie's words and then Riley's words. It is the most beautiful illustration of the way that every single last one of us is trying to finish unfinished work of our parents and grandparents. In this interview, Riley talks about the beauty and pain of her mother, of her grandmother, of her grandfather, of her brother Ben, and losing Ben to suicide, losing her mother, and all that she's learned along the way. As I was reading the book, talking to her, I think the most profound realization of listening to Riley is like, she might be the granddaughter of Elvis, but this is just a family story. This is a family story of beauty and survival. So we give you Riley Keough, who is an Emmy, Golden Globe and Independent Spirit Award nominated actress. She's known for her work in Daisy Jones and the Six, which our family loved, Zola and more. She also co directed War Pony and co founded the production company Felix Culpa with Gina Gammell. She is the eldest daughter of Lisa Marie Presley and sole trustee of Graceland. Her new book, From Here to the Great Unknown, written in both Lisa Marie's and Riley's, A mother and daughter communicating from this world to the one beyond as they try to heal each other, is available now. Riley, I just want to tell you a couple things before we start. Okay, so number one is our team told us that your team had reached out because you had felt like there was more to talk about in your story than had been covered at first. I was like, oh, we don't often have celebrities on the podcast, right? And so I was like, huh? But I felt so intrigued by you because, first of all, our family watched Daisy Jones.

[Riley Keough]

Thank you.

[Abby Wambach]

And we that's so fucking good. And I loved you.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

And I don't mean like, I loved you like, oh, you or what.

[Glennon Doyle]

I just.

[Abby Wambach]

I felt like you are special.

[Riley Keough]

Thank you.

[Abby Wambach]

I just thought, Daisy Jones, I just like that girl. Okay, then because of that outreach, I read your book.

[Riley Keough]

Okay.

[Abby Wambach]

I did not expect it to be what it was, which to me was the most beautiful experience of multi generational love and pain. I just fell in love with your family and your mom. I mean, your mom's honesty. Like, holy shit. I felt so inspired by it, honestly. And then you're the project of listening to her tapes and then you filling in all of the blanks felt like what we're doing with our lives, like, it was like this meta experience.

[Riley Keough]

It really is. It is. Well, I really appreciate you having me. I mean, I. I listen to your podcast, so that's very cool. I do a lot of podcasts and I don't listen to all of them, so I don't know what I'm doing. And I. I really love your podcast, so I. I'm really happy to be here. So thank you for having me.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, my gosh, it's such an honor. And I also want you to know that I didn't know that you were Daisy Jones until, like, months after I finished the book. So imagine my excitement.

[Riley Keough]

I feel like I have, like two lives, kind of.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, at least. Yeah, at least.

[Riley Keough]

Riley. Exactly.

[Abby Wambach]

Tell me, what do you want to talk about?

[Riley Keough]

Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. I don't have anything particular that I want to talk about, but I'm happy to talk about anything, literally. So whatever you feel is appropriate.

[Abby Wambach]

Well, imagine that you're on a podcast with a lot of people listening who don't know your family's story. Yes, that's funny. A few people do know your family story. First, I think it would be wise for you to tell us your quick version of what you want people to know about your family before we get into feelings and the stuff that I always want to talk about. So set the stage for us, Riley. Who are you? Who is your family, and why the book?

[Riley Keough]

Well, my name is Riley Keough, and I am the daughter of Lisa Marie Presley and Danny Keough and the eldest grandchild of Elvis Presley. That's the sort of the easy.

[Amanda Doyle]

The Cliff Notes.

[Riley Keough]

The Cliff Notes.

[Abby Wambach]

Tell us about your mama.

[Riley Keough]

My mother was Lisa Marie Presley, and she was a wonderfully unique and fierce and incredibly strong woman and mother who, you know, had a really unique life, obviously, and, you know, I think a lot of human experiences within this unique setting. But she kind of, you know, obviously lost her father and grew up in a very intense situation of being Elvis Presley's only child.

[Abby Wambach]

Mm. Tell us about what is the trauma in your family? Like, when you think about what has happened, the sadness in her losing her father, what is the pain? What was the pain in her?

[Riley Keough]

Well, it's something I think about a lot. I'm kind of somebody who's obsessed with, like, where I came from and what happened to my parents and their parents. And so I know everything, you know, and I always have. And that kind of had nothing to do with Elvis. It was more just like, on both sides of my family. I was always very curious, and I think I always had an instinct of, like, about sort of carrying that. Because when I would find these things out about my family members I'd never met, there was an emotional connection to them, you know. And so on that side of the family, there's a long history of poverty. For one, my family came from many generations of really kind of extreme poverty and addiction, alcohol abuse, drug abuse. And she. My mother, you know, also suffered from. From addiction and. And lost her father at nine. And so I think the grief of that really dictated a lot of her life and the way that she wasn't really able to process it, I think because of the nature of the grief and how it was a sort of shared grief and it was a global grief. And so I don't think particularly a lot of room for her to have her own grief. So that was really unique. But outside of the Elvis stuff, there is a lot of generational trauma, you.

[Abby Wambach]

Know, from the poverty. Like, what do you think? Because it's very easy to just say, well, it's Elvis.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

But in the book, it's very clear. This is a family.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah. His mother was an alcoholic, and it was the South. And in times where, you know, the way he sort of grew up, like, they didn't really have money. And that was kind of a huge. If I could imagine coming from that kind of a lifestyle of scarcity in that way, and then turning into sort of like, the most famous person in the world and the sort of the money and the stuff and all of that, I would imagine that that would be also kind of hard to process, which I think you see all the time. But I think that his particular situation was really polarizing because of sort of where he and his family had come from.

[Amanda Doyle]

And it's so interesting because I'm sure when a lot of People talk to you. It's like, well, your story starts with Elvis, but that's not true of anyone. Right. It's like the generations and generations and before we carry all of those with us.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

And in fact, the house, they were all. You say that's part of the culture of him at the time. It's like, if you come from poverty, you bring everybody with you. And so your mom actively grew up around everybody, literally in the house or on the property?

[Riley Keough]

Yes, totally. The whole, like, hillbilly family.

[Abby Wambach]

So your mom is little and she loses her dad, which I think in the book she said, I was only sure of one thing ever, and that was that I was loved by my dad. And that it really struck me, like, to only have one thing you're sure of, and then to lose that thing. What happened next, after she lost her dad?

[Riley Keough]

Her dad died. And then literally, what happened was she had to live full time with her mom in California. And I think that she had lived at Graceland in the house with Elvis and also with her mother. But for her, Graceland and the time with her father was, like, really represented a freedom and also unconditional love. And the connection that she had with him was, I think, one of the most, you know, important connections of her life. And I think that the loss of him. It's not to say that, you know, other people didn't love her, but she always would say, I don't remember anybody else other than my dad, you know, until he died. So she was grieving, but she was grieving with, like, the country and the world. And I think, you know, she says in the book that she was sitting on the stairs and watching people come in and fainting and being carried away by ambulances. And so I think she was very protective of her grief because it felt like something she could have ownership or like it was. I think people would ask her about him a lot. And as she grew older, she didn't really ever talk about his death, and she didn't talk about it publicly. Surely. I think there were two sides of it. I think that on one side, she didn't properly go through the process of grief as a normal person might, because it felt like this thing she was holding onto for herself. And on the other side, I think that there was comfort in the sort of, like, collective grief she felt for her father, which lasted her whole life. And when she would go home to Graceland or, you know, there's something called Elvis Week, which is like an event where fans come to the house. I would See that she would be really comforted by the fans who would hug her and hold her and the sadness that they had that they shared over the loss of her father. So I think that it was sort of a twofold thing.

[Glennon Doyle]

It must have been so confusing. I recently lost my brother and I'm sorry. Thank you. And I remember feeling like in the church at his funeral, I remember feeling like these people have no idea how I feel.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

And also over time I have to recognize that they also had a relationship with my brother. Though it was vastly different and much different than mine, it still mattered. So I could understand probably your mom's confusion at how to properly grieve because you have like the most famous person in the world and then this person just happened to be her father. Like those are very confusing messages not only to a human being but a nine year old trying to figure out how to like work this through. And you know, let's remember 20 years ago we weren't saying the word true trauma.

[Riley Keough]

Right.

[Glennon Doyle]

You know, we weren't talking about she.

[Abby Wambach]

Riley says that in the book that like your mom didn't even learn the word trauma.

[Riley Keough]

It wasn't, it was like 2021 or something or 2020 when she started saying like trauma, I have trauma. You know, which was amazing. But like so late in her life.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Riley Keough]

What's interesting is that I definitely as a child could perceive her grief. Like I could feel her sadness. But it's such a, like you're saying, such a unique experience grief that I didn't truly understand her grief until I lost my brother as well. And then imagining, you know, a child like a nine year old sort of having that experience and with a parent. So it's a, I mean very normal human things but a unique circumstance.

[Glennon Doyle]

Sorry for your loss.

[Riley Keough]

Thank you.

[Amanda Doyle]

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[Abby Wambach]

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[Riley Keough]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

I don't know if that's true, but it felt like suddenly there's a lot of rigidity and not a lot of love. What was that experience like? How do you understand that now? Your mom going to her mom.

[Riley Keough]

I've thought about this a lot when writing the book. And before my mom passed away, I didn't think about their relationship a lot. You know, they've had a complicated relationship through my life, but we've all been fairly close. Like, there was never a moment where anyone was estranged. Their dynamic was, you know, there was always something my mom was wanting that she wasn't being given. But we still spent holidays together and weekends. So I didn't totally consider their relationship until after she passed and I was writing the book. And I think that my relationship with my grandmother, which I think is really common, is very different to hers with her mother. And I think that fundamentally they were very different people. My grandmother really cared about appearance and manners and kind of old school, kind of, you know, wanting everything, the house to be perfect. And her priorities were sort of wanting things to present as perfect or, you know, and I think that a lot of that was from the pressure she probably experienced being 14 years old.

[Abby Wambach]

Sure.

[Riley Keough]

And having to be, you know, the partner soon partner of Elvis and this, like, sort of perfect woman in the 1960s, which is really intense for her. So I think that she felt a lot of pressure to be this, the most beautiful woman in the world, the most perfect woman in the world, and wanted to keep her role as Elvis's partner, essentially from 14. So I take that into consideration a lot. I don't know if my mom did. You know, I think to her it was just her mom. Like, I don't know if she would if she thought about that much. And there's a sense feeling in her that's sort of like, I don't want the plates to fall in my grandmother. And I can see where that comes from. And I think when it's so close that it's your mom, you don't always give the grace there, of course. But my mom was such a sort of like, radical woman in the time she was born, and I think that she didn't care about the things you're supposed to care about as a female at the Time and really was so unapologetically herself and, you know, not crass or anything, but just authentically her, which to me is such a. Like, in hindsight, when I look back on the time period she grew up in, the way she was raised, didn't feel like that would be, you know, the sort of outcome of her personality. So I think that she just was a. I don't know, the Elvis part of her maybe, like, the. She was kind of a big force, for better or worse. And my grandmother's very sort of soft, and I think they definitely had a difficult time. And I think that when I watched it as an outsider, it always felt to me that my mom was looking for something that her mom wasn't able to. To be or to give her.

[Abby Wambach]

Mm. It's just so easy to see other people's generational trauma from the outside. You know, it's interesting to be the daughter of someone who had to, by circumstance, be and look perfect and keep all of the plates in the air and then be a human being who literally is wearing the truth on her face all the time. When she says over and over again in the book, why does everyone tell me I look sad?

[Riley Keough]

She.

[Abby Wambach]

She just is like a living embodiment of the truth. I'm sure it scared the shit out of Priscilla.

[Riley Keough]

I think it did. And I think, honestly, it scared the shit out of most people. And I think that she was so honest, like, existed in so much honesty that it was hard for people to sit with a lot of the time. Like, I remember being a kid and friends would come in and she wouldn't even do anything, and they'd be like, oh, your mom is scary. You know? And I'm like, why? Like, she's just. She's, you know, this tiny little lady, and she's didn't even say it, you know, And I think it's just. There was no filter or kind of social pretense or anything. And I think that that presence would often frighten people, but there was no meanness. You know, it was just. I don't know what Spy was.

[Amanda Doyle]

How. How did she keep that?

[Riley Keough]

I don't know.

[Amanda Doyle]

I mean, you would think. I feel like we're born with, like, a life force.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

And most of us very quickly are like, I'm gonna tamp that down about seven notches. I know, but how did she keep her life force like that?

[Riley Keough]

That's what's so incredible to me about her is it was never nurtured. It wasn't something that people praised. It was always the. Like, she was always a problem. Any school, any situation, she was being, you know, she was difficult and she never, ever dimmed that part of her which I always found to be so inspiring about her. I'm not like that. I'm. I'm very.

[Amanda Doyle]

I'm like a dimmable chandelier.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah. I'm like, you want that down to all the way down. Me too. If I walk in a room, I'm like, oh, you know, shouldn't do that, shouldn't be here. But she just, you know, it was. It was a really incredible quality that I definitely think it's actually quite profound.

[Abby Wambach]

It's interesting that you said that you're not like that because as I was reading your book, I was thinking about all the people that I talk to who are trying to figure out, like, how I'm the black sheep in my family and it feels like you're the opposite. I wonder what it is like to be in a family where they think of themselves as pirates. Over and over again in your book talk, they're a group of pirates. First of all, I want to know what does it mean to be a pirate? And then what is it like to be the only UN pirate in a family of pirates?

[Riley Keough]

Well, I think that I just sort of perceived them that way and I think that there was just this environment that was like, especially in the 90s, it was very like my mom was. They were very like anti establishment kind of like very not wanting to follow the rules. Told me like, I didn't have to go to school. You know, it was very like kind of anarchy, you know, was the vibe in my house. And both my parents were kind of. Though my dad is actually very sensitive and quite soft and so was. My mom was extremely sensitive. She just, you know, was very at a strength to her that was sort of unshakable. My dad was more of a softer though. He was very sort of wild and charismatic and all these things. He was quite like sensitive and fragile. And I think that I got. And my brother as well got more of that than my mom, sort of. That's not true. I think we both have had her strength as well. But yeah, I think that he was. I definitely can see more of my demeanor in my father. But we always felt very close, the four of us. Like, I didn't feel like I was different or anything. I actually felt really quite similar to my brother and to my parents. But I think that as I got older and into my 20s, like when we, when I was younger, we would all hang out or party together in my early 20s, or do these things, get very drunk on the holidays. Like, that was very normal. But then into my later, in my 20s, it became, you know, my brother's drinking was. There was just something about it that just felt darker, I would say, you know, in sort of my mid-20s and where it was, like, not like, just a fun party night, you know. And I think in those moments, I sort of became more of, like, took the role of, like, this sort of narc, I guess. Like I was, you know. And then as their addictions progressed, I. I very much was the one who people didn't tell things to, you know, which I was kind of okay with, because in the moment, I felt like I'm doing the right thing, I'm being responsible. But I would always get the feedback of, like, you're not an addict. You don't understand. Which I tried to take on a lot. But I think the way I felt was, if I don't do everything in my power to drag you out of there and do all these things and put you here, then I'm not going to be able to live with myself. So I have to. And so I think a lot of my life and my 20s were spent resisting what was and enforcing things. And I kind of didn't understand the point of it. I was like, why am I in this life where everyone around me is just, like, trying to take themselves out, essentially, and there's nothing I can do? Like, what is the lesson in that for me, you know, which I still haven't figured out, but, damn it, I.

[Abby Wambach]

Thought you were about to tell us.

[Riley Keough]

But what I do know is that I was forced to surrender because they died, you know, And I felt like I was holding on for dear life or waiting to get punched in the face and doing everything I could to not have this thing happen. And then it happened twice, you know? And so the only thing I know is that by the time my mom was about to pass away in the hospital, I was really surrendered in that moment in a way that felt really liberating. And I truly felt like I was. You know, there's a moment where she was in the hospital, and I didn't know if she was going to make it. And I was on an airplane, and I kind of, in my mind was saying, like, you know, do whatever you want to do. You. You can go if you need to go kind of a thing. And there was no part of me that was like, come on, you know, hold on. Just hold on till I land, you know, and that was a big deal for me for how resistant I had been for so much of my life with these things. But it could be that. That I was, I don't know, had so much of that sort of lesson that I did get to a place where I did feel surrender in a pretty sort of intense and, I guess, like, critical moment. That's all I've got.

[Abby Wambach]

That's good stuff. Did you get there through the experience of losing your brother? Because to me, I read your mom say, the only thing I ever knew is that I was loved by my father. And it definitely felt to me like the other thing she knew for sure was that she loved you guys.

[Riley Keough]

Yes, definitely.

[Abby Wambach]

That there were two knowings.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

And loved you. Well, like, people. I'm not perfectly. No. But, you know, people are often asking me, like, can I give what I haven't gotten? Is it possible? Like, people freaking out about becoming mothers because I didn't get it from my mom. Is it possible? Feels like she pulled that miracle off in a beautiful way.

[Riley Keough]

She really did. And that's another thing I really saw clearly when writing the book and also having my own child. She totally. And my father, too. My father. His dad left when he was 2, and he kind of left the house early and didn't have a really nurturing home. They both shared that experience, and both of them were incredibly loving, to the point where my brother and I would often talk about how lucky we were as adults. And so I don't know where that came from. You know, I don't know if she was born with that instinct, but it was so strong that I find myself going, I hope that I can make my child feel, like, half as loved as my mother made us feel, you know, which considering, you know, her sort of story, it is pretty incredible.

[Abby Wambach]

Talk to us about the loss of Ben and what that did for you and her.

[Amanda Doyle]

And before we talk about the loss of Ben, can we just talk about Ben?

[Riley Keough]

Yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

Because Ben is so beautiful. I could just. Every page of him just. What a beautiful soul.

[Riley Keough]

So I think the hardest thing about writing a book about real people is that you can't describe a full human on. On the page. And I would spend just hours going back and talking to my husband and my dad, going, like, how do I describe Ben? How do I describe my mom? And to me, and this is probably a very human experience. Like, they felt so unique and so special. So I think there's, like, words that I use to describe him, you know, like, he was so kind and sweet and sensitive and funny and hilarious and all these things. But he, to me, just felt like. Just like an angel kind of, you know, and so special. You know, one of the things that I really felt, and this could also be a shared experience with many people, is I really felt this feeling of like, there was a mistake made, he shouldn't be gone. And I think that that just speaks to the closeness, probably, and the relationship and the uniqueness of, like, all individuals. But it's hard to describe him. He was incredibly like a really. You know, how a lot of boys are very sort of, like, wild and rambunctious when they're young. He was very soft and sensitive and sweet and had this beautiful curly blonde hair and was kind of wild and loved to be in the garden and plant and very thoughtful. And that sort of was his essence, I think, when I think of him. And when I went to speak at his service or I didn't speak, I wrote something. He really kept the essence of him as a child through his life, which is also. Was also a really beautiful thing.

[Amanda Doyle]

Like your mom.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah, I think kept that fire totally. And so he was just the funny, like, very funny and quick, smart, intelligent. Kind of one of those people who would retain all information. If you're. If you were like, what is that kind of tree? He'd be like, oh, that's the. You know, this thing. Or, you know, where does this come. I don't know. Like, he was just new, you know, my. Had my dad sort of mind in that way, just really intellectual kind of brain. And he was really special, and we were really close. You know, he felt to me like he was like my twin or something. Like, we felt very connected spiritually, and there was nobody in the world who would have been like, oh, Ben, he's kind of a bad guy. Like, he was just like. Everybody had a good experience with him. And one of the most important things that I like to say with regards to suicide is not somebody that you would ever imagine in terms of stigma would take their life or would die by suicide. Even for me, which was probably the hardest thing, experience was the shock of it, you know.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

The holidays are almost here. Between traveling, hosting family, and finding the perfect gift, it's such an exciting, busy, and, yes, sometimes stressful time. Luckily, I've teamed up with Ring, and it helped me stay connected to home for all the merry moments. Even when I'm on the go with Ring, you've got your whole home covered. Their video doorbells alert me when gifts arrive, and I Can even chat with delivery people to let them know where to leave the package. Ugh. It's the best. The indoor cam. Well, it's a game changer. So easy to set up. I use it to check in on my pets while I'm away. We love to watch Honey and Hattie. And with two way talk, I can even talk to them.

[Riley Keough]

Hi, honey.

[Glennon Doyle]

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[Abby Wambach]

Soon after that loss, how do you describe what happened to your mom with addiction?

[Riley Keough]

So her addiction was actually, before my.

[Abby Wambach]

Brother died, okay with the girls, right?

[Riley Keough]

Yeah. So her addiction was when my sisters were younger and she went to rehab. She. Her addiction got extreme, like, very out of control.

[Amanda Doyle]

Riley, can you describe how it happened? Because I think this is important. This is something that a lot of people share. And in fact, your grandfather, it. Abby developed the same way. And Abby, too.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah. So she was 40 prior to this. She drank alcohol. She probably would get too drunk sometimes, but she would have never considered herself an addict. And I don't think anyone around would have been like, oh, she's got a drinking problem. There was just like, the environment was very party And I don't think she would have ever said, I need to stop drinking or anything, but she certainly drank. She barely took medication. Wouldn't really take Advil, Tylenol, Tried to be very healthy. But what she did always say, which is interesting in hindsight, is she would always say, like, if I was ever to try heroin or if I was to do drugs, like, they would kill me because I'm, like, all or nothing type of a person. And she made these comments, and probably because there was a part of her that was considering her fate and her dad's fate and wondering about, you know, I don't think she had, like, the language for it, but I think she was. Probably had something in her that felt connected to his. Him and his addiction. And so she had my sisters, and she was 40 years old, and she had a C section, and they gave her opiates, and she took the opiates for pain. And then when they were about two, she came to me and I had no idea and said, you know, I've been taking painkillers, and I think I need to go to rehab. And I was like, what? Like, I had no idea. And she said, you know, it was to sleep. Like, I couldn't sleep. Like, after the babies were born, I tried to take Benadryl, and that wasn't working. And then I would take the opiates. And so I was just taking them at night. And that was. I think that was like a year where she would just take it at night to get sleep. And she was very open, and I think probably only told me once she, like, realized it herself. Like, I don't think she would have hid it from us because she was always telling us everything. But, um, so she said, you know, I'm taking these pills and I need to go to rehab. And I found a place in Mexico, and they do, like, a holistic thing, and I just need to get off them. Like, my body's addicted, but that's it. And I was like, okay, that makes sense. I'd had experience with my dad and opiates. And so, yeah, she goes to this place, and then halfway through the treatment, she's like, you know, I gotta get back because the kids are starting school. And I think this was actually a really bad time to come here. And I'm like, wait, what? Like, you're here? What are you talking about? Like, you're not just gonna leave because they're starting school. Like, you knew they were starting school. And I think that overall, it's more of a priority. That you finish your treatment. And she was like, it's fine. It's really important. They need stability and they need to get back in school. And we got in a big. It was a big fight, actually. And so she left. And then she went home, and I went, oh, she doesn't want to stop taking them. And that's when progressively things got much worse. And she decided she was going to move to Nashville and that she was going to find time to go back to the rehab. You know, she was taking more and more pills. She ended up getting up to 80, 80 pills a day. And then she went back to the rehab. She went home. She had, like, a week. And then I called her, and I could just tell. It was just felt like this thing that started to spiral. And I was like, have you taken anything? And she was like, no. And then she, like, went to a dentist office or something and had, like, a dental work done and then needed to take some. She's like, I have to take. I have to take painkillers.

[Abby Wambach]

And I was like, I know that trick.

[Riley Keough]

I was like, okay, I see what's happening here. And then it just spiraled. It was like the opiates were, you know, so high up, the amount. And then she, like, went out one night in Nashville, and somebody gave her cocaine. And then it became cocaine, opiates, alcohol, and got so bad to the point where she ended up in heart failure in Cedars Sinai in la. So she basically was just going hard, and me and my brother got her, too, which is in the book, like, get on a Bus to come to la, because she wouldn't fly because she couldn't do cocaine on the airplane. So my brother took her on a bus and brought her to Cedars, and then she was in the ICU for about a week. And then the amazing thing is, and it was a slow sort of like, you know, because she ended up in Cedars, she was so honest that she told the people working there, you know, I have a drug problem. And she not realizing that they would call a social worker. And she was kind of saying, I need to get help. But I. You know, but she just told them, and they took my sisters away from.

[Amanda Doyle]

Her, and they were like, three then.

[Abby Wambach]

How old were they?

[Riley Keough]

Gosh, they would have been five or six, maybe.

[Amanda Doyle]

Five or six.

[Riley Keough]

Okay.

[Amanda Doyle]

And then you became their legal guardian, Right? Like, you had to supervise the visits.

[Riley Keough]

So actually, the courts just gave them to my grandmother.

[Amanda Doyle]

Wow.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Okay.

[Riley Keough]

And then once she completed rehab and did. She had to send her urine tests in and Whatever. The social workers basically said, well, you need a court appointed monitor with you if you're going to have the kids back in the house. So I was the court appointed monitor.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, Riley.

[Riley Keough]

And so I kind of had to live with them until she finished. It was like a year or something, year or two that she had to have that. And that was hard. That was really hard because she also didn't want to be sober, like, still. But she did, you know, for her kids. And she didn't relapse at all. She never relapsed. And this was like 2017, I think. And there were other issues. Like when she would go to the doctors who were giving her the post rehab drugs, she would convince them to give her, like, way too many. But other than that, she never took narcotics again until. Which is actually interesting. So when my brother died, my first thought was, like, she's gonna relapse. She's gonna obviously, like, how could she not? And, like, OD or something. So she didn't do that. And that was actually something I was like, so to the day she died, proud of her for. And I thought was really important because she'd always be, like, two years sober, three years sober. And I think she always felt like I wasn't proud of her or like I wasn't giving her enough praise for her sobriety. But really, I was just frightened. Like, I was scared to say, like, yay, you know, you're whatever. And I feel like I should have. I think I withheld the excitement because I was nervous that she'd relapse.

[Amanda Doyle]

Of course you were.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that the fact that my brother died and she never relapsed was actually so incredible. And before she died, coincidentally, she had had, like, a infection. She'd had a surgery, and she had to take oxy, I think. And I was like, oh, God, like, here we go. This is gonna be a whole thing. I didn't think she was gonna, like, go full crazy, but I thought she was gonna definitely drag it out. But I kind of was like, I'm not gonna ask because I guess I'd learned my lesson. I'm just gonna let her do what she's gonna do. And this was probably in, like, November, and she died in January, and I knew she was taking them, or maybe it was sort of December time. I knew she was taking them and whatever, she had to take them. Like, I talked to the doctor, but when she died, my first thought was, she's OD'd. And my housekeeper was like, you know, I don't know what's happened. There's her pills here and. Or something. I can't remember the exact conversation. And I was like, oh, she's mixed something. She's OD'd on accident. You know, something's had a reaction. And she had told me a few weeks earlier, like, I'm taking it, but I'm being responsible. And I was like, okay, like, I'm just gonna not get involved here. And when she died and the autopsy report came back, it said, like, therapeutic amounts of whatever was in her blood. And I just felt so proud of her because she was just taking exactly what was prescribed for the time it was prescribed. And so I think it's really important to share that, because I don't think she was gonna relapse, you know, had she stayed alive. And I think that actually a part of her, when my brother died, made her want to stay sober. Cause he would have wanted that.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. Did it feel like she was on the precipice of something? Like, when you talk about she had found the words for trauma and then she wanted to start grief groups?

[Riley Keough]

I think it did in a way. And that kind of can feel heartbreaking, but also, there's a part of me that's like, who's to say that it's a precipice of something that's here on this planet?

[Abby Wambach]

That's right.

[Riley Keough]

You know, So I kind of choose to feel more hopeful about that, I guess, because I think that, like, something I've really haven't liked in my grief experience is this sort of feeling around death that it's like a failure. Which is so weird because we all die. And it's like, at all ages, at any time, it's just part of life. And there's this feeling around it that's like, oh, no, I'm so this horrible thing happened to you, but it's kind of ridiculous.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah. Who's to say that on the other side of it is not 20 million times better than this?

[Riley Keough]

Exactly. So I think that the sort of view around death and my view on dying when touring this book, and people are like, oh, I'm so sorry. Of course it was tragic and, like, extremely painful and traumatized the shit out of me. But I also don't instinctually, in my heart, believe that human beliefs around death and the fear are totally valid.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

It also feels very like when you say that you. You can feel your mom mothering your daughter. You hear yourself singing songs to her that your mom sang to you, and you can Actually feel her mothering her. I just think that's so beautiful for all of us to think about. And also, you're doing these grief groups for her. Like, you're doing it. Yeah, it's happening right now.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah. The sort of place she was right before she died was like, she would go on hikes and was like, I'm going to start a grief podcast. And so she was actually trying to, like, live for my sisters and my brother in honor of him, and she was really trying, you know.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Riley Keough]

Though she was totally heartbroken. I think that those things are happening, you know, and the book did come out, and I think that it did have the effect that she wanted it to in terms of just reaching people and people relating to it on a human level. Because I think a lot of her life, she spent not feeling like a human, in a way.

[Amanda Doyle]

And you're doing the. You said that. Which she was, like, trying to get something she. Just a kind of love she could never get. And it just feels like that you read this book, and it just bubbles over with love. Like, the love that she has for y'all and your love for her, it feels like you completed that circle.

[Riley Keough]

Right. And then when you really think about, like, what life is about and what a successful life is, I think, to me, it's ability to give and receive love. And I feel like she was exceptional at one of those things.

[Abby Wambach]

That's.

[Amanda Doyle]

That's pretty good, though, man.

[Abby Wambach]

Take it. Okay, let's end with this. I mean, I cannot. There's no. The levels that I relate to your mom is just. It's just a lot. But at one point in the book, she said, I don't believe some sort of recovery program that she didn't believe in because she felt like it was too focused on the physical and that addiction is a spiritual problem. What was the spiritual problem? What is it? Because as an addiction, I understand no addiction bad, but huge fan of the people who get addicted. I always feel like they're the most tender, truthful people who feel more than the average bear. And then, you know, here come the painkillers. Do you have any finger on what is the spiritual problem? And then what's the gift? Because we're always focused on generational trauma, and then we don't think about. But where there is, you know, shit, there's so much beauty. So what is the gift? The shit and the gift, if you will.

[Riley Keough]

Right. Oh, my gosh. Well, I think it's. I think that, like, the obvious things are like, well, the spiritual problem Is trauma not enough love? Whatever. But I also saw someone who really didn't understand what they were doing here. And on a more profound level, you know, didn't understand her purpose and desired to. For someone to say, like, hey, this is what life is like. Which is a funny thing that it's looked at as this, like, esoteric conversation, but it's, like, kind of nuts that we're just plopped here with no context. And so I like to be confused. Feels like normal, legit, Right?

[Amanda Doyle]

Seems like it should be like, a baseline. 101, day one.

[Riley Keough]

This is what we're here to plan. Yeah. So I think that there was just, like, a lack of understanding and, like, purpose with her and wanting, definitely love. Like, love was a big one for her. I don't think she could receive love very well. Yeah. I don't know. You know, I spend my. My whole. My hours of my day that are. Or when I'm going to bed and I should be sleeping, like, wondering, why did this happen? And what does this mean? And what is addiction? Like, what is it trauma? Is it. Is it genetic? I have no idea. I don't have any answers in that respect. I just saw somebody who had some kind of hole they wanted to fill.

[Amanda Doyle]

Do you think it's like when you said when she would tell you about the I'm one year, I'm two years sobriety, and you felt like, I can't exactly celebrate that because I don't trust it's gonna stay. Do you think that was her same reason for not being able to receive love?

[Riley Keough]

Yes. She was very. Had real abandonment stuff. She would very quickly drop friends if she felt that they were gonna drop her first kind of a thing. But then also, you reminded me, like, she was in pain, you know, and she didn't want to feel pain. Like, God forbid. You know, it's really difficult to live with that much pain, grief, for a long time. And I think she just hit a point where it felt nice to escape that.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah. Let's not forget, during that time, the doctors were just giving shit out left and right. And so many of us got addicted to prescription pills because of that.

[Riley Keough]

Yeah, for sure.

[Abby Wambach]

Well, Riley, you're great. If I were your ancestors, I would be so fucking proud of what you've done with your legacy. In the intro, you said something about there was a poem like, beauty Ben, was it?

[Riley Keough]

Yes. I can't recite it, but it basically says that wanting people know the. The beauty bin. That was my mother. Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

You did that?

[Riley Keough]

Yes, you did.

[Abby Wambach]

That.

[Riley Keough]

Oh, thank you.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah, just beautiful.

[Abby Wambach]

All right, proud squad, we love you. We'll see you next time.

[Riley Keough]

Thank you so much.

[Amanda Doyle]

Thank you, Riley.

[Abby Wambach]

Bye.

[Riley Keough]

Thank you for having.

[Abby Wambach]

If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode, and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on Follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.