We Can Do Hard Things

Episode: Tracee Ellis Ross: Holding On to Joy In Hard Times

Host: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Amanda Doyle
Guest: Tracee Ellis Ross
Date: March 17, 2026

Episode Overview

This rich, beautifully open conversation explores how to hold on to joy and freedom amid life’s hardships, with award-winning actress and producer Tracee Ellis Ross as a guiding “lighthouse.” The Pod Squad—Glennon, Abby, and Amanda—invite Tracee (a self-described “cauldron sister”) to share her wisdom on authentic living, chosen family, creative expression, and the complexities of womanhood, aging, and self-acceptance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Cauldron Theory” and Chosen Family

• Tracee shares her belief that some souls are made together in a cauldron and scattered throughout the world, destined to recognize one another.
  • “You meet someone and you’re like, oh, we’re from the same soup.” (Tracee, 07:15)
• This framework explains the deep, almost inexplicable bond Tracee feels with certain people and validates the importance of chosen family.
• The group reminisces about Tracee’s 50th birthday party, described as “a cauldron of your people,” celebrating how she draws together beloved friends as a barnacle would—clinging fiercely, not as a burden, but as a testament to enduring connection and interdependence.

2. Rejecting Hustle Culture, Embracing Joy and Authenticity

• Amanda introduces the idea of seeking depth and connection without falling prey to hustle culture.
• Tracee discusses rejecting cultural narratives—especially those placed upon women and Black women—that equate worth with being “chosen” or fulfilling prescribed roles.
  • “My job as a woman is to learn to be choosable, having nothing to do with who I am… but really is more about how I might be seen so that I might be chosen so that my life could mean something as a chosen woman.” (Tracee, 15:36)

3. The Role of Friendship, Vulnerability, and Aftercare

• Tracee details her practices for tending to mental health and the “dangerous neighborhood” of her own mind, especially after emotionally risky experiences (“risk hangover”).
  • “I’m a girl that jumps off the cliff… and then I land and I’m like, what the fuck did I just do?... And then everything’s colored by the wrong information.” (Tracee, 24:25)
• She emphasizes the importance of calling friends when vulnerable, as well as rituals and therapy.
  • “Friendship has been the biggest. And the willingness to be completely transparent and to be able to call people when I am on the floor, whether it’s metaphorically or physically.” (Tracee, 21:28)
• After significant events, like her 50th birthday, Tracee plans deliberate aftercare and community connection.

4. Self-Acceptance and Making Peace with Not Being Everyone’s ‘Cup of Tea’

• Tracee shares her lifelong tension between longing for universal approval and accepting that her true self may not be for everyone.
  • “Maybe you’re just not everyone’s cup of tea... I want to be everybody’s cup of tea. It’s like, okay but maybe you’re not.” (Tracee, 60:59)
• She recounts making a list of what she likes about herself—many of which are the same attributes that can be “difficult for people.”
  • “I have a larger container now to hold myself. And I know myself really well. And it’s taken a lot of time to have the courage to actually live my life as that person.” (Tracee, 62:55)

5. Creative Expression and Clothing as Self-Expression

• Tracee’s love for clothes is rooted in watching her mother (Diana Ross) use fashion as both transformation and agency. Clothing evolved from armor against racism to a celebration of self.
  • “It’s one of the ways I wear my insides on my outside.” (Tracee, 32:09)
  • “It’s not ‘look at me,’ it’s ‘this is me.’” (Tracee, 31:42)
• She describes the joy of wearing her mother’s dress at her birthday and the symbolic power of singing “I’m 50 and I’m free.”
  • “To actually be in one of those dresses and… sing her song, and change that line to 50, I’m 50 and I’m free. That was just kind of magical.” (Tracee, 41:48)

6. Redefining Fertility, Motherhood, and Womanhood

• Tracee reflects on entering perimenopause, grappling with society’s narrow definitions of womanhood and fertility.
  • “Is it my fertility leaving me? Is it my womanhood? Or is it really neither?” (Tracee, 53:48)
  • “I feel fertile with creativity, full of power, more and more a woman than I’ve ever been. And yet that power that I was told I must use was not used. A power.”
• She expresses gratitude for the “expansion around gender” happening now, crediting the trans community with unlocking new understanding.

7. Joy, Heartbreak, and Making Room for Both

• Tracee and the Pod Squad share the reality that joy and pain often coexist.
  • “I can be really productive and doing really well and also, like, heartbroken.” (Tracee, 46:56)
• The conversation returns repeatedly to gentleness and self-forgiveness—a throughline for resilience.
  • “One of my friends always says, give yourself a thousand breaks, and when those are done, give yourself a thousand more.” (Tracee, 26:06,\ 52:45)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Not Abandoning Yourself:
  • “Each time, in the aftermath of the hurt, I do ask myself the question of how do I not end up here again? And what I have discovered is I will end up here again.” (Tracee, 44:36)
• On Being Enough:
  • “My spiritual awakening in life has been, I’m okay. You can’t ruin it, babe. You okay. That’s it. There was no burning bush. It was just, you’re okay.” (Tracee, 62:55)
• On Acceptance:
  • “Think about how weak you have a whopper to be everyone’s cup of tea... You’d have to be the weakest ass tea. You’d have to be water... And even not everyone likes water.” (Amanda & Tracee, 64:01)
• On Joy and Gentleness:
  • “Gentle, gentle. That’s one of my favorites. Like, give it twice. And then... give yourself a thousand breaks, and when those are done, give yourself a thousand more.” (Tracee, 26:04)

Important Timestamps

• [06:13] – Tracee explains the cauldron theory of kindred souls.
• [11:40] – Choosing and nurturing “barnacle” friendships; importance of chosen family.
• [15:36] – Cultural messaging around being “choosable” and women’s worth.
• [21:28] – Tracee’s tools for moving through mental struggles; the power of friendship and ritual.
• [24:25] – The aftermath of vulnerability: “risk hangover.”
• [32:09] – Clothing and creative expression; “wearing my insides on my outside.”
• [41:48] – The emotional resonance of her 50th birthday dress and singing “I’m 50 and I’m free.”
• [53:48] – Reflections on fertility, womanhood, and challenging patriarchal norms.
• [60:59] – Accepting not being everyone’s cup of tea and growing a “larger container” for self-acceptance.

Final Reflections

This episode is a heartfelt testament to living bravely and joyfully amid confusion, aging, and societal pressure. Tracee Ellis Ross’s candor, wisdom, and humor—met by the tenderness of the hosts—offers listeners both comfort and provocation: urging us all to find our cauldron people, to be gentle with ourselves, and to celebrate the messy, magical alchemy of being alive.

Standout closing moment:

• “It’s okay, sweetie. Gentle, gentle, gentle, gentle. I’m right here. Not going anywhere.” (Tracee, 66:16)

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