Abby Wambach (3:11)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (3:12)

On the COVID So how are you feeling?

Glennon Doyle (3:17)

Well, it's wild because this is a little bit before. A couple days before. It's going to be a living thing in the world. And when this goes up, we will have had our first live event last night when this goes up, and it will be here. So, I mean, I have my, like answer, and then I have my, like, real answer. And so I think fake answer first.

Amanda Doyle (3:45)

Fake answer first, and then we go.

Glennon Doyle (3:47)

To fake answer first is like, I'm so excited. It's so wonderful. It's. I don't know, whatever someone says in that context, but I think the real answer is I'm. It feels like a weird time. Like, it feels exciting and good, but the, like, hoopla piece of it feels odd. It feels odd because I'm used to, like, architecting and choreographing from behind, and it's weird to be entering that world in a more visible way. And I find myself being like, I don't know how that's gonna go.

Abby Wambach (4:41)

Are you looking into security? Because people are gonna be on you.

Glennon Doyle (4:46)

Well, I feel like I want people to have a really good experience at the events that we're doing. I want that to be what people need right now, because I think there's so many needs right now that I really want that to be something that they find is useful and nourishing to them. And so I feel some pressure to deliver what people need because it feels like such a needy time. And the place that I feel most secure is, like, when I think about coming home and being like, okay, now is the time for people to read the book and have it. Like, that's the part I feel so happy about, what it is. I really love it. And I think it's going to be so helpful to people. So that part doesn't feel nervous to me at all. I feel like when the dust settles and people can use and have this book, I feel, like, very settled in my soul around that.

Amanda Doyle (5:49)

Yeah.

Glennon Doyle (5:50)

And all the stuff before then, I'm like, I hope this goes well.

Amanda Doyle (5:55)

Yeah.

Glennon Doyle (5:55)

Is my honest thought.

Abby Wambach (5:57)

Can I say something really quick, please? So, I don't know. I just think that one of the things that people don't realize, and I think that is, like, important, is there has been over a year's worth of work that has gone into this book, coming out into the world, and work that Sister, you've done and Glennon, you've done and I've done and our entire team has done. And so for the fact that for so long, sister, you have been kind of in, you know, back of the house, this podcast has put you more in the front of the house. And I feel so relieved and excited for us, but, like, more for you, because this is exactly like, you have worked for over a decade in such a capacity that honestly, like, seeing all three of our names on the front cover of this book is one of the most emotional things to me because, like, we work really hard at what we do. And I just think it's really important for you, especially for the recognition that you have long deserved. And we've been giving it to you behind the scenes, but now the world gets to give it to you. So my dream and hope is that you're gonna be able to receive what I know will be so much love coming to you. And if we do need to hire some more security, because people are gonna be out of their mind about it.

Glennon Doyle (7:29)

Clamoring, just clamoring for access to more security.

Abby Wambach (7:32)

I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. And I am one of those people that has, my whole life, worked really hard behind the scenes before people got to see the product on the field. And so the celebration, like, the getting on stage and to be in community with our people and to celebrate this gorgeous book in the world, this book that is actually saving my life on a daily basis to me, it's just. I don't know, I just feel really tickled about it.

Amanda Doyle (8:01)

Tickled. I love when you sound like Judy Wambach. You're feeling tickled.

Glennon Doyle (8:05)

I also had the first stage of being like, I've never felt weird about sharing anything on the podcast. Or people say, like, oh, you're brave to say those things. And I feel, like, scared that they say that because I'm like, what's brave about this? I'm just saying I hate when happens in my life.

Amanda Doyle (8:22)

I hate it when people say that.

Glennon Doyle (8:23)

That's that embarrassing to everyone.

Amanda Doyle (8:25)

Wait, pause there for a second. Yes. That is not what you want to hear. Okay, so I think it was some comedian that said, if I post a picture of myself in a bathing suit and you say, you're so brave, it's not doing what you think it's doing. Right? Okay.

Glennon Doyle (8:41)

It's being like, I would never do that. That's crazy.

Amanda Doyle (8:44)

Yeah, exactly.

Glennon Doyle (8:46)

So I have never felt that. But now I'm like, it's written in the book, like, all the things. Like, I'm pretty ironically heavy in the sex chapter. And I'm like, that's so weird that, like, my kids, teachers, and people in my neighborhood are going to be reading about my innermost thoughts about sex. That's funny. Like, it's a funny little world to be in.

Amanda Doyle (9:12)

It's a weird way to live.

Glennon Doyle (9:13)

But that's the first time that I've thought of, like, huh, that's different.

Amanda Doyle (9:18)

It's a weird way. It's a weird thing. I mean, this just happened to me recently. I'm at, like, the hair place getting my hair done, and people are sitting next to me going, are you okay? And I'm like, oh, they just read my newsletter and they know I'm going through the anorexia.

Abby Wambach (9:35)

Or you're like, what are they. What exactly are they talking about? What?

Amanda Doyle (9:39)

Right.

Glennon Doyle (9:39)

You're like, oh, what chapter are you on?

Amanda Doyle (9:41)

Because I need to know what you're.

Glennon Doyle (9:42)

Mourning for me at this moment.

Amanda Doyle (9:44)

Exactly. Are you okay? Okay, on what level? And about what? Is it my hair or is it my soul? Now, a couple things you were like, you're excited for when people get home and they have this book because it's gonna be so helpful to them. Okay. I figured something out, you guys. Recently. This might sound totally obvious to you, but it woke me up. Feeling like a eureka moment. Okay. You know how we were talking forever about this dory from Nemo phenomenon where we wake up especially during hard times, and we feel like we don't know anything. Like, we've learned so many lessons throughout our lives. We've been through hard times. We've had the most brilliant conversations. We. We have all this wisdom stored up, and then it just feels like the harder the moment gets, the more the wisdom that we need goes. We've described it as dory from Nemo phenomenon. Beginner's mind. We call it what we want to seem spiritual instead of forgetful.

Abby Wambach (10:44)

I'll just call myself I'm an idiot.

Amanda Doyle (10:47)

Every morning, but you guys, this is science. It's science. It's that anxiety causes dissociation. It's that the harder the moment is, the more afraid we get. And the more afraid we get, the more fight or flight we get. And that we do dissociate. We lose our remembering, the more we need it. We need it the most then. But our anxiety makes us Flee or flee fight or fun or whatever all those Fs are. And so we don't access it. It's actual science. So how crazy, you guys, that the universe has us making this book where all the wisdom is and we can all remember what's real and true and good in a moment where we all feel so effing traumatized, where we all feel like we're in fight or flight or fawn or freeze. So I feel like that's what you're saying is, like, you're excited for people to get back into the book during this hard time because everybody is a little bit dissociated right now because the anxiety is running so high.

Glennon Doyle (11:57)

And I feel like it always is that.

Amanda Doyle (11:59)

Yeah.

Glennon Doyle (12:00)

Don't you feel like there's. It's kind of like, I don't know why we're made this way, but it has something to do with the way humans are made that, like, we only get wisdom in tiny, like, glimmers and snippets.

Amanda Doyle (12:17)

So annoying.

Glennon Doyle (12:17)

And it's like a tiny little gift of a moment where you're like, oh, thank God.

Amanda Doyle (12:23)

Okay.

Glennon Doyle (12:23)

I know that that. Or I've learned that lesson, and I swear to God I'm never gonna forget it. And then when that moment passes, it's gone.

Amanda Doyle (12:33)

Yep.

Glennon Doyle (12:33)

And I just feel like that's a funny way that we're made. And I don't know that it would work to be. Have your full capacity of wisdom at all times and your full knowledge, because then you're walking around with that your whole life. I don't know if you function the way you need to function. If you, like, have a. If we all had a really deep wisdom about the meaning of life, would.

Amanda Doyle (13:00)

We go to work?

Glennon Doyle (13:01)

I don't know.

Amanda Doyle (13:02)

No, probably not.

Glennon Doyle (13:02)

Would it be. No one's taking out the garbage. If you're really contemplating the deeper meaning of life, but, like, when you need it, to have it there. Feels helpful, but it just got me thinking a lot about everything. It's like, the more you think about things, the more you think about things.

Amanda Doyle (13:24)

And that is why she is such a spiritual genius. Just listen. If you take nothing else better than that, I promise, if you take nothing else with you, Pod Squad, the more you think about things, the more you think about things. But it is true. It's like wisdom. It feels like I wish it was a building. Like, I wish you could just, one brick at a time, build yourself a wisdom thing that is, if I were God, I would do it that way. Like, you get to Keep it. You learn it the hard way and then it becomes a br.

Glennon Doyle (13:59)

It's cumulative.

Amanda Doyle (14:01)

It's cumulative, but no, it's not. It's like fireflies. It's like you're out at night and you see a glimpse of light and the second you look over there, it's gone. And you're like. I feel like there was a firefly right there. Or it's like a carousel and you're just going around and around. You're like, there's something. Oh, wait. It went blurry.

Glennon Doyle (14:21)

But I saw it for a second.

Amanda Doyle (14:23)

So anyway, we just captured all the fireflies and we put them in a jar and that's where they could breathe. Yes.

Abby Wambach (14:30)

Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (14:31)

Okay. We love you, Pod Squad, so much. We hope we're gonna see you on tour. If not, we'll see you back here. Thank you for supporting us.

Abby Wambach (14:38)

I cannot wait to get on stage with you two.

Glennon Doyle (14:41)

Oh God, I know. By this time we will have already done New York, so. Oh, God, I hope I don't screw it up.

Amanda Doyle (14:50)

Same.

Abby Wambach (14:50)

We'll see you guys on tour. Let's go.

Amanda Doyle (14:53)

We love you, Pod Squad. Thanks. And how cool that we're talking about the tour now. And we're about to go into a conversation about the incredible tour that Abby and Tish went on. And just to bring it full circle, Tish is going to be on our tour with us.

Abby Wambach (15:12)

She's going to be opening for us.

Amanda Doyle (15:14)

Uh huh. All right. Pod Squad.

Glennon Doyle (15:16)

Can you believe that? That is a fun thing. That is a really fun thing. She's going to be playing music at all of the tour stops with her.

Amanda Doyle (15:25)

Moms and her aunt and her. It's just, we're just like a little traveling circus at this point. Or the Von Trapps. We're the Wombox.

Glennon Doyle (15:33)

We're the Wombox.

Abby Wambach (15:44)

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Amanda Doyle (18:28)

Today we're going to tell you a little story that I still can't believe actually happened. I think most of you know one of our love bugs. One of our kids is a singer songwriter. Okay. Her name is Tish Melton. You might know her from stories such as when she didn't allow me to sleep for six months because she learned that the polar bears were losing their homes. She has been a very sensitive, artistic soul since she was little. When she found songwriting, it changed her life.

Glennon Doyle (19:03)

You also might know her from such hits as We Can Do Hard Things.

Amanda Doyle (19:07)

Oh right, yes. She also sang. She wrote the song and Sing Song.

Abby Wambach (19:10)

She's a woman who is singing in your earballs.

Amanda Doyle (19:12)

The quick story on her which we can Talk about in more detail at another time, but Abby gave her a guitar during COVID when we were losing our minds and just looking for things for the kids to do.

Abby Wambach (19:28)

Also, she was going through a period of her life that she was just angsty. Like, she was getting into the angsty teenage years.

Amanda Doyle (19:34)

Yeah.

Abby Wambach (19:35)

And I thought, oh, what about this guitar? Maybe this will help.

Amanda Doyle (19:39)

Yeah. And she had never touched a musical instrument besides, like, you know, whatever. The recorder, the ukulele. Yes, yes. And she basically disappeared into her room for months and just started writing songs. And then she'd come out and perform them for us, and then she'd invite, like, when people started being allowed to visit each other again during COVID in Florida. That was, like, eight hours later. Yeah, we lived in Florida at the time.

Abby Wambach (20:06)

Yeah. Three weeks.

Amanda Doyle (20:07)

Yeah.

Abby Wambach (20:08)

Literally.

Amanda Doyle (20:09)

So she would have little concerts for her friends, and we kept listening to her songs and being like, this feels crazy good. But also, we're her parents, and we think everything she does is good. And so, long story short, lots of stuff happened. We moved to California, et cetera, et cetera. She got invited to do this showcase thing for girls in music. Okay. It was run by Linda Perry. You know when I wake in the morning and I step outside and I take a deep breath at Linda Perry. Okay.

Abby Wambach (20:41)

What is that thing called? Can you look it up?

Amanda Doyle (20:43)

What's going on?

Abby Wambach (20:45)

It's like Equal.

Amanda Doyle (20:46)

Equalizer.

Abby Wambach (20:47)

Equalizer. Equalizer, yeah. Equalizer.

Glennon Doyle (20:48)

At the Troubadour.

Amanda Doyle (20:49)

Yeah. So what happened is Tish gets up first of all. Everybody else, they were all these bands, okay?

Glennon Doyle (20:58)

They were real rock and rollers.

Amanda Doyle (21:00)

They were teenage bands, okay? They had, like, choreography and costumes and drums, and they were doing, like, dance numbers on the stage. And I was like, oh, my God, my kid. What is gonna happen? Because she was in her, like, flannel and pigtails. Nothing. No other people, clearly. No dancing.

Glennon Doyle (21:22)

It was like, one of these things is not like the others.

Amanda Doyle (21:25)

Yes. You were there. Amanda was there, of course. And I just was, like, sweating and like, oh, my God, what's gonna happen? And she stands up, and she stands there in her little pigtails and her flannel and her guitar, and she just, like, cracks open, like, she just starts singing these incredibly vulnerable, beautiful. The whole place just went completely silent for her whole set. And I understood that it was very special. But what I didn't know was that Linda Perry, well, she stood up on the Troubadour stage and said, everyone in the stage will one day say I was there the first time. Tish Melton Took the stage. Then she sent the video to Brandi, who is our dear friend. Okay. Brandi Carlisle. And said, this kid Brandy reaches out to me and is like, is this your fucking kid? Like, what is going on?

Glennon Doyle (22:25)

Way to bury the lead, Doyle.

Amanda Doyle (22:27)

Yes. I was like, I don't know. I think everything she does is amazing. I'm not about to. You know, I don't know. So that starts this relationship. Brandi and Tish start collaborating. They make an EP together. It's called When We're Older. Tish and Brandi have become just extremely close friends. And I know that Brandi is actually Tish's hero. She's like, her North Star. And this has kicked off Tish's musical career, so there's a lot involved in that. Sometimes I feel like one of my favorite movies is Almost Famous. And there's that line, I relate to that mother so much. And there's that she stands there and she goes, my son has been kidnapped by rock stars. I think that, like, once every two weeks, because Brandi is Tish's mom now. Okay. My daughter has been kidnapped by rock stars, but I can't imagine anyone else I'd rather my children be kidnapped by. So recently, Tish got invited to open on a countrywide tour.

Abby Wambach (23:37)

Actually, it was an international tour.

Amanda Doyle (23:39)

Oh, right. Cause they went to Canada. Okay. On an international tour. She was invited to open for this band and artist called Monrovia. Okay. Who, if you haven't heard of Monrovia, just do yourself a favor and listen to Monrovia's music, because it's so amazing and beautiful.

Abby Wambach (23:57)

And also, I just want to say, shout out to Monrovia and Mon. Those guys. We were on the road with them. Wonderful human beings.

Glennon Doyle (24:06)

Yes.

Abby Wambach (24:07)

Just like really good people. Listen to his music. Just listen. And just know that they are stamped.

Amanda Doyle (24:14)

Approved by me, as good as they seem.

Glennon Doyle (24:17)

And also, you didn't know that.

Abby Wambach (24:19)

Yeah.

Glennon Doyle (24:19)

Before, like, this is what is so weird.

Amanda Doyle (24:22)

Although we listened to his music and did a deep dive. And, like, his music is all about healing and beauty. And I could. We knew.

Abby Wambach (24:29)

We knew, basically, Tish's booking agent, Lee, also knew.

Glennon Doyle (24:33)

Yeah. You were recommended. It was a setup date. But still, like, people who don't know this, I was shocked to learn that, like, Tishy goes to her first gig on that tour and meets him for the first time.

Amanda Doyle (24:45)

Oh, right.

Glennon Doyle (24:46)

Already committed to doing all of these dates. This is a risky proposition.

Abby Wambach (24:51)

Yep.

Amanda Doyle (24:51)

Right. And my entire rock star knowledge is based on Almost Famous. Right. So I was thinking this is going to Be a real challenge for an 18 year old girl to make it.

Abby Wambach (25:02)

Okay traveling around the country with 30 year old dudes.

Amanda Doyle (25:05)

Because of that, the Pod squad will understand that. Abby, it's going to sound weird, but just imagine being in our shoes, okay? That our deal was. Okay, honey bunny, you can go on this tour, but your moms are coming too. Okay, thank you. And since we have another daughter, what we ended up doing was most of the tour Abby did with Tish. And then I flew in and out. So what I want to talk to you today, Podsky, is about Abby renting a minivan that you guys named Mama Claire. Mama Claire, right. And driving thousands and thousands of miles. Your Abby was Tish's roadie, tour manager.

Abby Wambach (26:02)

Tour manager, parent driver, food getter for.

Amanda Doyle (26:08)

Like in a million states, thousands and thousands of miles. Just sorry, but the shittiest hotels you can imagine.

Abby Wambach (26:17)

I wanted to, I want to talk a little bit about like the process.

Amanda Doyle (26:20)

Okay, babe, go for it.

Abby Wambach (26:21)

Because I think that it's important for the Pod squad to understand our collective family's process around the planning, the prepping and then the doing of the tour. So obviously Trish was like, yes, this is wonderful. And then you and me, she's 18. How are we gonna do this? How. How are we gonna send this child of ours out into the world? Okay, we gotta figure out how to, to make this work for our schedule. So we changed a lot of stuff business wise.

Amanda Doyle (26:54)

Yeah, we did.

Abby Wambach (26:55)

I have to route her travel from gig to gig to gig to gig. I have to rent a car, obviously. I have to rent hotels along the path of the route that we would be driving. And one thing that I just remember early on when I was doing this was like I was thinking about my mom a lot and how much time she spent driving me all around the northeast. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours. Thousands and thousands of miles that, you know, I'd have a tournament in New Jersey from New York. Well, that's another seven hour drive. And so I thought a lot about what that time was for her and I. And we would listen to the cassettes on tape. You know, you'd get like 10 John Clancy or whatever. The murders. John Clancy or Tom Grisham. Yeah, yes, those two.

Glennon Doyle (27:45)

Same, same.

Abby Wambach (27:46)

And so I was like trying to figure out like in my mind, like what is going to be best for Tish. And one of the most important things to me, at least I'll speak for myself. I am a bougie traveler because I've done over 3 million miles of my Life and I can't not traveling. In a way I would have preferred to fly from place to place and stay in nicer hotels. But I couldn't do this to her. I couldn't put her in a false.

Glennon Doyle (28:18)

Expectations of what her tour life will be be.

Abby Wambach (28:20)

Exactly. Maybe in a year's time or two years time. She's now back out on the road but without her parents and she has a horrible experience. So I was like, okay. I had to go back to the beginning of like my traveling experience and just go back there and just dive right in. So that's what we did. We stayed in, you know, the lowest cost because. And it's not just because I wanted her to have that experience. It was budgeted right.

Amanda Doyle (28:48)

She wasn't making much money, let's just put it that way.

Abby Wambach (28:50)

Well, it was an important.

Glennon Doyle (28:51)

We weren't netting positive.

Abby Wambach (28:53)

Yeah, it's an important lesson to try to teach her. Hey, look, like the idea is to make money, but obviously you're a new artist. It's probably going to be impossible to make to come out, you know, on top after this. But like let's try. Let's do our very best. So you know, I walked her through the whole budget. We talked about like what we were gonna do. We got snacks for like breakfast. Actually no, breakfast was free at all the places we went to.

Glennon Doyle (29:20)

Oh yeah, you get those eggs in that waffle machine.

Abby Wambach (29:22)

But we had snacks and lunch in our Mama Claire every day. And then dinner would be after her set cause she couldn't eat. So I just wanted to give a little background on that piece because you know, and halfway through the trip she's like, I will always, no matter what happens in my career, I will always be able to like say that I did this, you know, like in an 18 year old. I don't know what she's thinking will happen with her career. But eventually I think the dream for her would have like a tour of us and to do the thing. Like we all imagine like Rockstar was doing the thing. But she did say like, I know that I will always have this to be able to say that I did. Like I accomplished this. Like, and honestly this is true. I didn't know Tish was cut out for the life on the road. I really didn't. I knew she said she wanted it. I knew she said. But the reality of life on the road like that is very different than in maybe the reality that she was having in her mind.

Amanda Doyle (30:22)

Because you'd get up and they, you know, you get up in a random hotel that wasn't maybe the best sleep of your life. And then you get in a car, and then you drive hours and hours and hours, grab some food somewhere, and then you go directly to these venues. And when you're new, these are small venues, these are tiny little green rooms. And you wait in the green room for maybe eight hours, and then you go on stage, and then you do it again the next day and the next day forever.

Glennon Doyle (30:47)

And nobody knows you, right? They're there to see Monrovia. Like, they don't.

Amanda Doyle (30:51)

Well, let's talk about that. So Pod Squad, this is a little one who. Well, to me, she's 4, but she is 18. And you're in these venues that, you know, might have a few hundred people in them. They're small venues in towns all over the country, and they're there to see Monrovia. And what Tish does is somebody calls her from the green room, and she walks and carries her guitar. And then she's waiting backstage, and then there's just a moment. You're hearing all the people outside.

Abby Wambach (31:22)

Okay, baby, Getting it a little bit wrong.

Amanda Doyle (31:25)

You do it.

Abby Wambach (31:26)

You're just getting it a little bit wrong.

Amanda Doyle (31:27)

Well, I'm not trying to say exact. I'm just summarizing. But no, no, correct. Go, go.

Abby Wambach (31:32)

Keep going.

Amanda Doyle (31:32)

Go.

Abby Wambach (31:34)

There's a lot that happens prior to. So, like, the way that this whole thing was set up is, like, she would play the night of, we would go back to the hotel, and then the next morning, we would have to drive all the way to the venue, which is sometimes eight hours away. So you'd basically take the whole morning and drive the next day.

Glennon Doyle (31:56)

It's more than a morning. You said eight hours?

Abby Wambach (31:58)

Yeah, the whole morning and most of the early afternoon. Right.

Glennon Doyle (32:02)

Okay.

Abby Wambach (32:03)

So sometimes we'd have to drive straight to the venue, given what time we need needed to get there. Sometimes we had time to go to the hotel, shower and go. We had to, like, do our laundry in a venue. At the music venue, they had a laundry machine because this is what they do. Like, usually people are going from venue to venue in their tour buses, and they don't have access to or in, like, a van, and they don't have access. So some of them have actual, like, showers. So on an average day, we would actually just go straight to the venue. Tish would do her sound check. So we'd get in there, Monrovia would be on the stage doing their soundcheck, and then when they were done, Tish would go do her Sound check. And so at that point, I'd get all of her stuff on stage, whether we traveled with a mic, all the chords, her guitar, guitar stand, the whole thing. Then I would have to put her water bottle on stage with her set list so that she could keep it all. So, like, I was doing all of this stuff. I was like, basically doing like six people's jobs eventually that I'm. I'm sure she'll have. But then there she was about to go on stage every night, just standing there, no introduction.

Amanda Doyle (33:16)

She walks out by herself.

Abby Wambach (33:18)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (33:18)

To this crowd.

Glennon Doyle (33:19)

Oh, my God, it's so vulnerable.

Amanda Doyle (33:21)

And she just stands there and she just starts playing. Like, they might stop talking. I mean, off in a bar, like, or a. It's her job up there to get them to stop, to pay attention. Right? I mean, to warm them up for Monrovia. But like, her job is to. And you just watch her walk up the there. Nobody else by herself, just her and her little voice. And you're just standing there like, what's going to happen?

Abby Wambach (33:52)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (33:52)

And I'm a former elementary school teacher. I wanted to hold up my quiet hands. I wanted to tush people.

Abby Wambach (33:57)

Glennon's like looking around over her shoulder. Anybody's talking, she's looking at them, trying to get them to shut up. But this is what Tish would say. My goal is to get them to pay attention to me, is to get them to stop talking to each other or stop talking at the bar and to actually turn and look at me and listen and try to listen to me. And God damn it. Wouldn't you know it, almost every single night that happened, it was unbelievable.

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Glennon Doyle (36:02)

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Abby Wambach (36:27)

Go to your happy price, Priceline.

Glennon Doyle (36:36)

That night in dc, I got to go to the dc, which was her first. That was very first one.

Abby Wambach (36:41)

Very first. Yep.

Glennon Doyle (36:43)

There was a feeling of. I felt so vulnerable. Like, I felt like I was, like, naked and I. I was doing nothing but standing there watching her. And the feeling that I felt towards the people who are watching her, Like, I have such a gratitude and frankly, like, love now for people who go to shows. Me too, because those people, or maybe this is just Monrovia's people who are extra special. But, like, they didn't know her from Eve. And I was watching them watch her and they were holding her. I know they were just so present and with her. And I just wanted to just hug every one of them. Like, it was amazing. And people who go to shows are special. Like, they're doing that because they're having a real moment with the people. And it was really cool to watch that.

Abby Wambach (37:40)

Yeah. And it's funny because, like, the first couple of shows, it was a weird thing to be in this body of mine.

Amanda Doyle (37:47)

Tell us more.

Abby Wambach (37:48)

Well, knowing how much she wants this thing and knowing how hard she's worked for it and seeing the process from the time she first picked up that guitar, I mean, you were in those rooms. Like, Tish is not a kind of person that likes to do things she's bad at. So the process of learning how to play a guitar, number one. The process of writing lyrics, then the process of learning how to sing, then the process of learning how to do all of those things together. It has been a long one and a hard one for her and it's been hard won. And so it was just like my body was buzzing for sure. I wasn't nervous for her. It was like this out of body experience where you were seeing your kid do the thing that they want to do and you were seeing them do it. And of course she's 18 and I'm sure we'll have a lot to learn and a different, you know, whole life to live. But very, very rarely do you actually get to witness it in full view that you are like, you know, you're witnessing one of the most important moments of your child's life and that you also were present in the process for them to get there. Yes, I know graduations and all of these things, but like to watch them be in the pursuit of their dream, of this wild dream. And I don't know, I was having like all of these really cool. This is more selfish minded. I was just having these really cool, like, wow, you have had an impact on her.

Glennon Doyle (39:36)

Of course.

Abby Wambach (39:37)

You have helped her and believed and allowed her the space and the confidence to even have like the idea to do that rather than like even the doing of that. So yeah, when she came off the stage the first night, it was so fun to be next to her and it was so cool to be people were asking for her autograph and pictures and the car ride home was like so spectacular and we were like on FaceTime. Cause Glenn and you weren't there for that first night, sadly.

Amanda Doyle (40:12)

Chase, Emma and I were all on FaceTime with you the whole show.

Abby Wambach (40:16)

So basically my arms were locked up because I had to hold my phone on the FaceTime for the entire show. But when Tish and I got back into the car to head back to Bubba and Tish's house because we were staying because it was in D.C. right next door to you, Amanda. Tish, like we were talking and she was like high basically on adrenaline. She had her first and I just didn't know if she was going to like it. I didn't know if it was going to be like, oh, thank God that's over. But it was like she kind of like whispered to herself under her breath, I can't wait to do that again.

Glennon Doyle (40:50)

That's huge. So it confirmed for her. She was like, that is the thing I want. I'm gonna chase that Forever.

Abby Wambach (40:57)

Yes. And I knew right then and there. Oh, shit.

Amanda Doyle (41:01)

Here we go.

Glennon Doyle (41:02)

Buckle up, buttercup.

Abby Wambach (41:03)

Here we go. Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (41:05)

Yeah. When I came in and out, it was Tish and Abby. It was absolutely this magical cocoon they were in. And I think that was one of the most beautiful things because I think it's because of Tish and it's. But I don't know that without Abby, any of it happens. I think I'm too afraid of pushing or exposing. I don't know what it is, but I don't think it happens, any of it. Even though the seed of it was already there. And maybe it would have happened later or differently, I don't know. But it made perfect sense that Abby was the one that was in it with her. Because it was between the two of them, largely, is the only way that I can describe it. And actually, this holiday, this past Christmas, Tish gave Abby as her gift a framed picture of the two of them. And it's just this beautiful picture of their backs. And Abby's carrying Tish's guitar. And they're walking into the theater, some theater in the Midwest. And it's. Tish's name is on the marquee, which is her first. Was like the first marquee she ever had. So it's just Tish and Abby walking towards the marquee and Abby holding the guitar. And in the letter, I'll just tell you one part, she was said something about. I sometimes feel sad that you weren't with me in the beginning of my life, that you weren't at my birth, but this tour was my rebirth. It felt like being born again because this is who I've always wanted to be. And you were not only there, but my guide through this new birth. I know, I know. I just. It's so beautiful. I can't even stand it.

Abby Wambach (43:02)

I know. And I just wondered. It was so fucking meaningful to me to have this time with her. And I appreciate you, like, so much giving me the space to do that with her. Especially knowing how much you love our kids and how important it is for you to have a big role. How was it for you? Did you feel jealousy or sadness that you weren't more.

Amanda Doyle (43:33)

I sometimes felt little pangs of, like, left outedness. Honestly, I'm just being totally honest. Overall, best thing in the world. Nothing I would change. Not one thing would I change. And every once in a while, it was so clear that I was utterly unnecessary. And you know that that is true. Like, I'm not saying that in a Self deprecating way. Like, I was almost just superfluous. Yeah, no, or worse. It was almost like superfluous was good. Nice. It was like, oh, God, now we gotta, like, deal with mom. We have enough problems. Like, that's how it kind of felt.

Abby Wambach (44:13)

Which was correct at first. It was like that. And then you came through. So we have to tell the pod squad what happened after Denver.

Amanda Doyle (44:21)

So Glennon, oh, this was very sad for me.

Abby Wambach (44:23)

Glennon flew into Denver.

Amanda Doyle (44:26)

Trying to. My only goal was to be additive. Okay. And then immediately I got very. I got like some kind of altitude. You're like, don't worry, I'm here, I'm here. Don't worry, I'm here. So I land. We show up at the first night. It's great. We're in Denver. It's beautiful. I think Andrea and Meg were there, right? Andrea and Meg were with us Valley. And then I got really bad altitude.

Abby Wambach (44:53)

We had to drive from Denver to the middle, like, between Denver and Salt Lake City.

Amanda Doyle (45:00)

Regardless, we don't need to tell the whole story. All you need to know is a few hours after I got there, we were pulled over on the highway and I was throwing up on the side of the road. Well, Tish just sat in the back, definitely thinking, God damn it, why did she have to come?

Abby Wambach (45:16)

She wasn't thinking that. She was worried about you, first of all. And then also, like, she said, how are we gonna drive for the rest of the time? She said that when you were throwing up?

Amanda Doyle (45:26)

Because I have this really fun part of, I think, menopause, which is that I'm. I'm constantly motion sickness now. Like, motion sick. I get motion sick so easily.

Abby Wambach (45:36)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (45:36)

So I just felt like, oh, God, here I am being needy and like, I'm supposed to be. It was awful, actually.

Glennon Doyle (45:42)

Is there anything else can help with.

Amanda Doyle (45:44)

When I'm finished stopping starving.

Abby Wambach (45:47)

It was a toughie.

Amanda Doyle (45:48)

But the good news is, is that I figured out quickly that if I drive, I don't get motion sickness. So I. I got to redeem myself a little bit by the next three or four days. I just drove all day.

Abby Wambach (45:59)

Not a little bit, a lot bit. I really needed a break from driving. It was huge for me. Cause we had driven thousands of miles and we had thousands more to go. So, like, having Glennon to actually drive, to give me, like, the break to just sit there and stare out the window and not have to, like, pay attention and be vigilant. Like, Glennon handled the business.

Amanda Doyle (46:22)

But it was an interesting experience for me. I would say in terms of being like, this is the most important moment of my kid's life, and this has absolutely nothing to do with me.

Glennon Doyle (46:36)

Except that you picked Abby and brought Abby.

Amanda Doyle (46:39)

I do think about that. I do think about that.

Glennon Doyle (46:41)

No, but that's like, to be able to. Most people don't have, like, a. To have changed the course of their kids lives through their very clever, wise selection. But then to be able to be like, oh, my gosh, if something were to happen to me, yes, my kid would be okay. Yes, that is an incredible gift. I mean, it's morbid, but it's a beautiful thing to know at some part of your existence that everyone's gonna be okay.

Amanda Doyle (47:12)

Yeah. I can't believe you said that.

Glennon Doyle (47:13)

Because Abby is so good and capable and close with them.

Amanda Doyle (47:17)

Yes, Abby is so Abby. Yeah, I have thought about that. I was in the shower the other day thinking about that, thinking the kids are who they are right now as much because of Abby as me, for sure. And I've been there from the beginning. And I know that, like, with every fiber of my being that their courage and their confidence and their belief in themselves and their audacity is all because of Abby.

Glennon Doyle (47:48)

Well, she comes in hot, man.

Amanda Doyle (47:50)

She comes in hot.

Glennon Doyle (47:51)

Made up for a lot of time.

Amanda Doyle (47:52)

But I feel like I have enough narcissism or whatever it is that immediately following that thought, I'm like, God, well done, Glennon. You get credit.

Glennon Doyle (48:06)

It's like a pyramid scheme. And you get credit for both of you.

Amanda Doyle (48:09)

Yeah, I called her in or up or however the team say it.

Abby Wambach (48:16)

Yeah.

Glennon Doyle (48:17)

You get a finder's fee of credit.

Amanda Doyle (48:20)

It's so freaking beautiful. It really is beautiful.

Glennon Doyle (48:24)

I have a question for Abby. Was there anything. Because you obviously have spent a huge portion of your life, like, preparing for and being on the quote, unquote stage of like, this is go time. This is your moment to shine. Whatever. Was there any parallels for you or distinctions for you for, like, okay, it's go time, but there's nothing I can do for this. What happens in you being, like, the champion clutch person in a clutch moment that you can't control?

Abby Wambach (49:04)

Well, I mean, I got pretty good at leaving the control at the door. I took care of shit. That was my role. That was my job. And so Tish knows that I had a system. I'm a very systematic person when it comes to this kind of stuff and a routine. So every day you get there, you do the same thing. And she needed the routine, too. It felt safe for her. So I was kind of like modeling to her, what will feel good long term. And her routine was her routine. My routine was my routine. But then we started to have like a little superstition stuff happening that, like, I'd have to say the thing before she'd go on stage.

Glennon Doyle (49:49)

What, what would you say? Can you share or no?

Abby Wambach (49:51)

Yeah, I'd say, have a good sing.

Amanda Doyle (49:52)

Because of Lauren. Because that's what Lauren says.

Glennon Doyle (49:54)

Have a good chat. Always says, have a good chat before we record. Yeah, have a good sing.

Abby Wambach (50:00)

But one of the things, yeah, one of the things that I have tried really hard to do in parenting all of our kids is to try to just be their parent rather than like the champion all star person who knows what it's like to be on stage. So really try to ask more questions than give any advice. Because they really don't ask us for any advice. Never once has our youngest daughter who plays soccer said, abby, can I talk to you about soccer? Can you give me some help or advice on soccer? Never. Not once. And that I would say, I'm pretty expert at. I would know all of the answers to her problems.

Glennon Doyle (50:42)

That's in your proverbial wheelhouse.

Abby Wambach (50:44)

Yes. And also, like, as a professional speaker person who's been on a lot of stages, I don't get stage fright. This would be also an area that Tish could, if she wanted to come to me and I could give her some real expert advice. But they don't want that. They have to figure this shit out on their own. So I don't know, I. I just was there. I mean, one of the most beautiful things about the entire trip and the thing that I dreaded the most was the driving. The 4,000 miles that we had to traverse around this country in order to get her from gig to gig and also up into Vancouver, Canada, for a gig. Lots of driving, lots of driving, lots of driving. And lots of time that we were just sitting next to each other in silence. Lots of time that we were sitting next to each other and getting so bored and somebody would just say something that that was on their mind. Or Tish would actually start asking questions about my life that she had never known about. Like, tell me about high school or who is like your first heartbreak or what about that person? Why did that happen? Blah, blah, blah. And she started to be like, oh, my gosh, you have so much lore. That's what their generation calls like storytelling, like art.

Glennon Doyle (52:05)

Ooh, I haven't heard that history lore. That's good.

Abby Wambach (52:07)

There's so much lore. Cause it's got this drama component to that word.

Amanda Doyle (52:12)

Well, Abby would text me each day. I'd get a text and it would say, okay, now Tish knows about all the drugs I've done. Now Tish. And I'd be like, what is happening? Like, we have not discussed this dissemination of information.

Abby Wambach (52:27)

I know. And Glennon, like, that's part of like the FOMO that I knew Glennon probably was having. Because. Conversations, to be honest, like, less the.

Glennon Doyle (52:35)

Shitty hotel, more the conversation.

Abby Wambach (52:37)

Yes. But also Glennon wasn't there to. Also, because I think that I was just like much more free to talk with her. Because when Glennon is around, I sometimes. I sometimes get in my head like, is this a story I should tell? But like, Tish and I were buddies on our trip. Yeah. We weren't like parent child. We were just like two people traveling along the road and then just a couple.

Glennon Doyle (53:02)

Rock and rollers, man.

Amanda Doyle (53:03)

Yeah, rock and rollers. One time I was at that breakfast bar at the hotel we were at getting like the eggs and Tig Nataro texted me about something and so I made her a little video of where we were and what town and that I was getting Tish some little baby yogurts and eggs and she sent me back a video that said, I just, it's. I'm really moved by this. I mean, as you well know, this is how all the greats started. The who, Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix. They just all started their first tour out on the road with their lesbian moms, making them breakfast each morning, delivering it to them in bed. That is how all the great started.

Abby Wambach (53:45)

Yeah, there's part of it that could also be problematic. But we're lesbian moms, you know, like, we're not going to send our 18 year old daughter out on the road by herself.

Glennon Doyle (53:55)

So there would we go one, we go all.

Abby Wambach (53:57)

Exactly, exactly.

Amanda Doyle (53:58)

And I do want to say that besides the Abby and Tish thing, the moments that I can start crying about that I will not right now is in those rooms because I was there for probably about like what, six of them in those rooms. There were so many Monrovia fans and beautiful people were in that group. There were also. It was always very clear that there were a group of people that were there because they were pod squatters or because they were with us from the beginning. Because they have loved Tish since she was. Since I told stories about her since she was 2. Because they were there as moms supporting a kid who was doing a brave thing. And like they were our people. And I don't know how to explain it, except it was so obvious.

Glennon Doyle (54:54)

And they weren't there because they thought you were gonna be there or any of us were gonna be there. I saw them in dc. They were shocked to see that Abby and I were there. They were there just for Tish. I know they'd gotten on Tish's newsletter list and they had been notified that day. Cause DC was even a.

Abby Wambach (55:11)

It was an Alabin.

Glennon Doyle (55:12)

An addition.

Abby Wambach (55:13)

Yeah.

Glennon Doyle (55:13)

They found out that day, and they came that night to support her.

Abby Wambach (55:18)

Yeah. That was crazy.

Amanda Doyle (55:18)

They just, like, were just energetically just holding her. They just. As part of this community, we just show up for each other's kids. And that was. I think it was so important to see and to go to all those towns and to be in those rooms. I think it helped me in preparing for this American moment that we're in. Because I just fell so deeply in love with everyone in those rooms. And I saw so much goodness and so much beauty and so much showing up for each other that it made me feel so connected and hopeful.

Abby Wambach (55:53)

That's what I think we should do. I think that we should do something that we can get people together, get them all in the same room. I honestly. And I know this might sound selfish. Cause I also believe that the Pod Squad would love it, but I actually think we need it. I think that we need to be in places where we see other people that want to do the life that we're doing together.

Amanda Doyle (56:21)

Yeah. I mean, we do need a version of the world that is not what we're seeing on tv. That's for sure.

Abby Wambach (56:26)

That's right.

Amanda Doyle (56:26)

Well, I wanted to say thank you for that, what you did with Tishy.

Abby Wambach (56:32)

Honestly, it was a pleasure. It was one of the best times of my life. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Amanda Doyle (56:41)

That's good, because I am quite sure you will be.

Abby Wambach (56:43)

I would do it again in a heartbeat. And, yeah, I mean, lots of interesting new things to learn about the music industry that I didn't know. And I also understand that, like, there's going to come a time for Tish that she decides to do this without us.

Amanda Doyle (57:00)

What?

Abby Wambach (57:01)

And that is gonna be okay? Don't worry. We'll talk about it later.

Glennon Doyle (57:04)

But make sure you ask Tig if that's the way these people.

Amanda Doyle (57:07)

I don't think the way it worked.

Glennon Doyle (57:09)

Did the Rolling Stones just go out.

Amanda Doyle (57:11)

On their own at some point without their moms? I don't think so. We're gonna have to do some reasons.

Abby Wambach (57:16)

We got them their small yogurts it's gonna happen at some point.

Amanda Doyle (57:19)

But I just wanna say. On the other hand, Brandi has been touring for decades and is still. Her whole family's still with her.

Glennon Doyle (57:27)

Yeah. Because that's because she's the mom and she takes her kids, not because her mom.

Amanda Doyle (57:31)

Details, details. We'll see.

Abby Wambach (57:38)

I mean, listen, I will say this, that it'll be hard for Tish to find another tour manager roadie who's less expensive than you. Yes, actually. Yes, very much so. I'm going to be the cheapest and most loving and most conscious. Like, there was a part of me when we were on the road that I was, like, also teaching her how she should want to be treated.

Glennon Doyle (58:04)

Yeah.

Abby Wambach (58:05)

And so, like, when something felt a little off to me because not every room is the same you walk into. Not every promoter is the same, not every manager of the bar or the event space is the same. So you. You have to feel it. And so, like, I would say, like, that person. Did that person feel a little off? No. And it's like, yeah, for sure. I'm like, yeah, I got that vibe too. So, like, trying to, like, make sure that she's staying in her body and aware of when she's interacting with some folks. And I think that. That she's so mature in so many ways. But going out into the world, you become a baby again. And honestly, it's really increased. Like, it's helped our relationship. She doesn't come to ask me things as much because when we were driving, I needed to ask her, hey, can you Google this thing? Hey, can you? And so I was, like, also helping teach her, like, how to solve problems, how to, like, think through. And she's very mature. So I'm not saying that I taught her this on the road. Like, she's.

Amanda Doyle (59:07)

Yes, you did teach her that. When she's with me, she asks me to solve a problem. When she's with you, she solves the problem and tells you what she solved.

Abby Wambach (59:13)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (59:14)

And that's.

Abby Wambach (59:15)

It's good.

Amanda Doyle (59:16)

I know. That's because I teach her. I've got you. And you teach her. You've got you.

Abby Wambach (59:23)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (59:25)

All right. Pod squad, we love you. Anything you want to leave them with, Lev?

Abby Wambach (59:31)

No. No. I mean, I will say this one thing I love about the decision that Tish has made. To take this quote, unquote, gap year from not going to college and to do this regardless of what happens is the stretching that this is doing for her comfort level. Like, she is putting herself so far out there, you could not Pay enough money in tuition in college to like create an environment like this that is going to teach them one of the most important things in their life that you can get up there and you might not have won over the crowd or you just didn't have the perfect set. There was just like so much in life that she was learning in this crash course in like three weeks period of time that I just kept being like, wow, even the idea of eating healthy. Cuz when you're on the road that is hard to find healthy food. And she was like craving this healthy food that she gets all the time living in our home. So it's like all of this stuff, I just felt like so grateful for all of the. The time that we got to spend together. It is a time of my life that I will never forget. And in some ways, and I know that I feel like their parent, but Tish has been like a harder one out of the three to prove that, yes, I am. And I am in a way that you can kind of treat me like a parent is treated that I'm gonna ask for a lot from you and I'm gonna expect nothing in return. And so it was like this beautiful moment that I felt with her that I don't know, just like in Bold Solidified. I don't need to earn shit from Tish anymore. Or Tish, whatever way that works. I feel like I've proven cemented. Yeah, I've cemented myself in her heart and that feels really cozy.

Amanda Doyle (61:47)

We love you, POD Squad. Thanks for showing up for our family. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode. And it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner and Bill Schultz.