What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)

Summary

We Can Do Hard Things - Episode Summary: "What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)"

Episode Overview

In this enriching episode of We Can Do Hard Things, host Glennon Doyle, alongside her wife Abby Wambach and sister Amanda Doyle, delves into the intricate relationship between astrology and personal growth with renowned astrologer and New York Times bestselling author, Chani Nicholas. Entitled "What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)", the discussion navigates through Chani's personal journey with astrology, its impact on her healing process, and its broader implications for activism and self-acceptance.

1. Introducing Chani Nicholas and Her Astrological Journey

Glennon opens the conversation by highlighting Chani Nicholas's unique approach to astrology, emphasizing its role in radical self-acceptance and activism.

• Glennon Doyle [04:17]: "Chani Nicholas is a Los Angeles-based New York Times bestselling author of You Were Born for This and Astrology for Radical Self-Acceptance. She has been a counseling astrologer for more than 20 years, guiding her community of over 1 million monthly readers to discover and live out their life's purpose through understanding their birth chart."

Chani recounts her childhood, marked by chaos and addiction, and how a pivotal moment involving an astrology reading provided her with a sense of self-distinction and boundaries.

• Chani Nicholas [07:06]: "I thought, yes, yes, I am judgmental. Nobody listens to me. So that was my beginning intro... I felt like I started to exist for the first time."

2. Astrology as a Tool for Self-Discovery and Healing

Chani discusses how astrology offered her a framework to understand herself and others, enabling her to navigate the complexities of her upbringing and personal relationships.

• Chani Nicholas [09:03]: "Someone was seeing me and distinguishing all of us. I felt like I started to exist for the first time or one of the first times in my life."

Amanda reflects on the importance of distinguishing oneself from others, especially in tumultuous environments.

• Amanda Doyle [10:23]: "Understanding yourself as separate and distinct from that is a fascinating need that I had never really thought of before I read that part of your book."

3. The Intersection of Writing, Vulnerability, and Healing

Chani shares the challenges she faced while writing about her personal experiences, highlighting the pain and validation that came with making her story public.

• Chani Nicholas [15:33]: "Putting out that much was wild for me. It helped me to say, at the end of the day, that's my story."

Amanda delves into the dual nature of vulnerability, where expressing oneself can both heal and reopen old wounds.

• Amanda Doyle [15:33]: "Giving yourself form in writing your story amplifies the invisibility that you had growing up... It can also have this kind of shadow pain attached to it."

4. Astropolitical Self Help: Bridging Personal Healing and Systems Change

The term "astropolitical self help" is explored as Chani explains her philosophy of intertwining personal growth with societal activism.

• Chani Nicholas [26:43]: "I am deeply annoyed and incredibly critical at anything to do with healing the self that does not then connect to healing the world via dismantling systems of oppression and supremacy."

Amanda adds a critical perspective on the self-help industry, emphasizing the need for systemic change alongside individual healing.

• Amanda Doyle [31:03]: "If you're not looking to the systems change, if you're focused on just the healing, you're perpetuating the demand for healing which is driven by the system that wounds to begin with."

5. Exploring Sun Signs: Traits, Self-Regulation, and Activism

Chani provides an in-depth analysis of each sun sign, detailing their inherent strengths, challenges, and roles in both personal healing and activism.

• Aries [38:17]: "Aries launches into space head first... A way to regulate is to know that you are free to take action when you need to."

• Taurus [40:36]: "Taurus is a slow, steady earth sign... A way for Taurus to regulate is going to be to go in the nature."

• Gemini [40:37]: "Gemini is the great communicator... A way for Gemini to take care of themselves is to know when they've been overwhelmed."

• Cancer [40:37]: "Cancer is the sign that initiates us into care and into feeling... Libra is the sign of justice..."

• Leo [45:37]: "Leo is ruled by the sun... A way for Leo to take care of self is..."

• Virgo [44:03]: "Virgo is so good at being with what is emergent... It's about being practical and resourceful."

• Libra [44:03]: "Libra is the sign of justice... Learning how to stay with yourself is really important."

• Scorpio [44:03]: "Scorpio is so good at getting to the truth... They are the stingers of the scorpion."

• Sagittarius [44:03]: "Sagittarius is all about faith and how we might move with a greater philosophy... Keeping the flame alive."

• Capricorn [44:03]: "Capricorn's got a plan and another strategy... Relentlessness to reach goals."

• Aquarius [44:03]: "Aquarius is the great visionary... The humanitarian sign."

• Pisces [44:03]: "Pisces knows oneness... The great connector."

Chani emphasizes the importance of self-regulation for each sign to harness their strengths effectively without falling into their pitfalls.

6. Practical Applications: Using Astrology for Personal and Collective Growth

The conversation steers toward actionable insights, encouraging listeners to explore their birth charts to understand their roles in healing themselves and contributing to societal change.

• Glennon Doyle [38:01]: "So let's figure out all the sweet signs and what helping themselves might look like, or what dysregulation might look like..."

• Chani Nicholas [60:34]: "It's like, yeah. Talking. It's like, yeah, talking."

7. Conclusion and Encouragement

The episode wraps up with heartfelt acknowledgments of Chani's impact and a gentle push for listeners to engage with their astrological insights as tools for empowerment and activism.

• Glennon Doyle [59:32]: "You're reaching out and seeing everyone... It's just a freaking wonderful reaction in the world that you're creating."

• Amanda Doyle [60:06]: "You saw yourself... and you're helping people see themselves and partner with themselves."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Glennon Doyle [04:33]: "We can do hard things, but we don't have to be hard while we do them."

• Chani Nicholas [11:18]: "I have boundaries. That is not okay. This is okay. This is where I stop and this is where I have room."

• Chani Nicholas [26:43]: "We can't only be trying to fight the stuff out in the world that we need to fight without doing inner work."

• Chani Nicholas [30:05]: "I don't want to be a good person inside of a horrible system. I want the system to change so that we all have the ability to get educated, to have healthcare, to thrive..."

• Chani Nicholas [36:00]: "The difference between war and peace is often five seconds."

• Chani Nicholas [60:31]: "It's about understanding the pain and suffering that we all go through and intimacy and all that kind of stuff."

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a profound exploration of how astrology can serve as a mirror for personal introspection and a catalyst for broader societal transformation. Chani Nicholas's insights encourage listeners to embrace their astrological identities not just for self-understanding but as stepping stones toward meaningful activism and collective healing.

Transcript

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[Glennon Doyle]

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[Abby Wambach]

The whole world.

[Glennon Doyle]

Welcome to we can do Hard things and the stars. Today. My yoga planet said this. She said we were in Shavasanan, which is like this nap you take at the end of yoga, which is the best.

[Abby Wambach]

Did you say Shavasanan?

[Glennon Doyle]

Listen, I don't care, all right? It's just a long word and it's a nap. She said Shavasanan and you take a nap. And that's what they should do the whole time. And everyone would go to yoga, but it's just at the end. And my instructor said, we can do hard things, but we don't have to be hard while we do them.

[Chani Nicholas]

Oh, look at that.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, she got. She one upped you.

[Glennon Doyle]

I know. So anyway, today is super, super exciting. Here's the deal. We at this podcast are astrologically curious.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes, we are.

[Glennon Doyle]

We would call ourselves astrologically curious. We also are all sort of. Well, maybe you're not skeptical. You're not a skeptic, Abby. I would say sister and I everything.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, yeah, I believe in most things.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, she believes in most things. She just said. Okay, so there you have it.

[Abby Wambach]

Like if you believe in it, including Ghosts.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes, she does. All the things I believe in. Everything a teeny bit and nothing all the way. That's my rule. After coming from some fundamentalist shit in my life also, when it comes to astrology, I've always had this like teeny, teeny bias that it's woo woo and not gritty. It's like all about self discovery and not about the world. Like it's all about self and not others. Then all of these people in my life started saying, I hear that you must look into this woman, Chani Nicholas. She's gonna fix your problem with astrology. So we have Chani today. I am so excited about this day, Chani. Chani Nicholas is a Los Angeles based New York Times best selling author of youf Were Born for this Astrology for Radical Self Acceptance. She has been a counseling astrologer for more than 20 years, guiding her community of over 1 million monthly readers to discover and live out their life's purpose through understanding their birth chart. Chani runs her company with her wife and business partner, Sonia Passi, who Abby and I got to have dinner with and absolutely adore. Together they launched the Chani app, which offers a personalized daily understanding of the birth chart.

[Abby Wambach]

I get a notification every day from Chani. I'm like, hey, Chani.

[Glennon Doyle]

Hi, Chani.

[Chani Nicholas]

Hi.

[Glennon Doyle]

Hi.

[Chani Nicholas]

So excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

[Glennon Doyle]

We're so thrilled. Ever since we got to have dinner with you all, we've just been waiting for this day. Thanks for joining us. I have to tell you, when I picked up your book, I loved how you wrote about your life so much. I was excited to get to the astrology stuff, but the way that you describe how you came to astrology, I thought was so beautiful. So do you mind telling us a little bit about your childhood? Because that's what leads you to the moment where astrology reaches into your life. So tell me about your childhood, which, if you're like everyone else, was super simple and easy peasy.

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah, yeah. Totally uncomplicated and idyllic. I was born in a place in a time where people were experimenting with a lot of different ways of living and really kind of untethered from any kind of cultural norm. I grew up in a place where folks were doing a lot of drugs and partying a lot. And I am like typical Gen X in that we kind of just raised ourselves. Someone said this on TikTok the other day. It was like we grew up around a lot of adults. They were there, but we grew up. We grew up around some people, they didn't necessarily feel compelled to parent. It was a culture that I grew up in, but in and of that, I grew up around a tremendous amount of addiction. And the impacts of addiction on a child is that no one reflects you back to yourself and that your needs are always second, if not 200 millionth on the list of things. When the first thing on the list is to get high or to get out of one's feelings, to get out of the difficult thing by using a substance or whatever behavior is happening. So I think a lot of us have that experience. This is my particular brand of that experience. And one day when I was very young and I was taken on a situation where I am pretty sure the adults were doing a lot of illegal things. One of the women that was in this situation, I'll never forget it, I didn't know what she was doing at the time, but she actually looked at me, which was a kind of rare thing for the adults to kind of take in the children. But she opened up this book and she asked the person I was with what my birthday was. And then she got my birthday and she dragged her figure down the page and landed on my birthday and looked up at me and said, you're really judgmental.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh my gosh.

[Chani Nicholas]

And I thought, yes, yes, I am. None of these fuckers have any judgment whatsoever. I am the one who is like, this is not okay. And nobody listens to me.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes.

[Chani Nicholas]

So that was my beginning intro, but that was pretty much all the person said to me. And I didn't even really know what judgment was, but it felt hefty. It had enough ballast to it that I was like, yeah, give me more of that. So then When I was 12, my father had moved into a third family iteration and his mother in law bought us all an astrology chart reading like the whole new family. And so we went to it and this woman started talking about how different we all were and why. And it was so incredibly helpful because again, someone was seeing me and distinguishing all of us. And I was a kid that didn't have any tools. I did not have a lot of adults that were interested in being introspective. And so this language was like, oh, wow, this is describing people's not only personalities, but ways of being and why. And all of it is perfect and all of us are different. And I think a thing about being a codependent child is that you do not know how to distinguish yourself from other people. And you do not know that you are different because you are so enmeshed with everybody's stuff, and you're just trying to survive, which means you're just trying to take care of everybody, which means you do not have needs, or they come 2 millionth on the list, and you are always going towards other people. So this woman was able to give me an outline, and I felt like I started to exist for the first time or one of the first times in my life. And she had written a book, and so my dad bought me the book, and I have been studying. Studying astrology ever since.

[Glennon Doyle]

She gave you an outline, like a boundary between you and everything because you use the word distinguish over and over again. So basically you're like, okay, I might be with these people, but I am not these people. I am my own thing to be seen. Wow.

[Chani Nicholas]

And also, like, this is why my stepsister isn't bothered by this thing is so much suffering for me. Or this is why my stepbrother. This is why my stepmom. Or this is why my dad. Or this is why my mom. You know, it, like, is a really beautiful tool, especially at that age, because 12 is the age where you start to really kind of do that stuff.

[Amanda Doyle]

That really made me think in a totally different way, because your childhood was quite dramatic. You say that by 5 years old, you knew the taste of cocaine, like you were living in an environment that was extreme in that way. And I feel like we all understand this need for belonging. But it's a very interesting look at it to say that we have a real need for distinction, too, Especially in a world of chaos or when you're surrounded by folks making really painful decisions. Understanding yourself as separate and distinct from that is a fascinating need that I had never really thought of before I read that part of your book.

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah, it was a life raft for me. And also being named the sensitive child because things were upsetting and it upset me.

[Glennon Doyle]

It was also, am I sensitive or are you just a bunch of assholes? Is what I've been asking my entire effing life.

[Chani Nicholas]

We can look at that in both our personal life, but also within the systems of harm and supremacy that we live within. And we talk as a community a lot about that. But it's really important to distinguish. This thing is not well. And it's making me feel unwell. And that distinguishing is really important as well.

[Glennon Doyle]

Before we get into that, can you tell me how being judgmental saved you? I just really loved that part where you were excited about being called judgmental, because I am very judgmental. And if you could Just frame it in a way that is positive and.

[Chani Nicholas]

That works for you.

[Amanda Doyle]

So it allows her to continue to be judgmental. That's what she's looking for. No codependence here, but if you could just do that, that would be great.

[Glennon Doyle]

I don't want to be judged for my judgmentalism.

[Abby Wambach]

She needs transformation.

[Glennon Doyle]

So if you could just go ahead and tell us what you mean by that.

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah, I mean, judgment in an astrological sense is about being able to parse out what is happening and why it's happening. And so we absolutely, obviously need judgment. And because I grew up in a place where people's judgment was literally disconnected, that getting high or drunk or like, you know, being in the party, you got to let a lot of judgment go so that you can have this experience of trying to get to oneness. But you can't actually get to oneness unless you understand who you are and have great boundaries. So part of my judgment stuff is like, I have boundaries. That is not okay. This is okay. This is where I stop and this is where I have room. And knowing that is everything. Because if I trust my own boundaries, then part of my hypervigilance can de escalate. It might still come up here and there, but also, being a kid that grew up in chaos, I am hypervigilant all the time. And so if I do not have discernment and judgment about my own boundaries, I am going to remain in that agitated, hyper vigilant state. State. And that's no good for anybody.

[Abby Wambach]

Was coming into learning about astrology at age 12 Helpful to understand some of these adults in your life and the choices that they were making? Obviously, addiction is addiction, and Glennon and I know and Amanda know a lot about that. But did it bring a source of empathy or healing in knowing maybe that they are different in the astrological charts than you are and the choices that they made?

[Chani Nicholas]

I think when I am the most compassionate is when I'm reading somebody's chart. Because when I see your chart, I'm inside the setup and I'm like, oh, of course. This is perfect. This is who you are. I get it. This is your circumstance. This makes so much sense. And when I'm outside of that.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chani Nicholas]

I'm like, no. Also, I think. I don't know if you all feel the same, but I feel like writing about my childhood helps me almost the most in understanding that humans, you know, are human and people that raised me were very young, mixed up, humans in a lot of pain, and it helps Me to have some perspective on it and understand that none of it was personal. It just was not about me. It impacted me in some really severe ways. That's been my life's work. But the things that happened to me weren't ever about me. And I think that writing that is really helpful and then having their own astrological context has also been really healing for me. For sure.

[Abby Wambach]

That's great.

[Glennon Doyle]

The things that happened to me were not about me. Dang.

[Amanda Doyle]

What you just said about writing being healing, you've also said that actually it's brings up so much pain for you too. Giving yourself form in writing your story amplifies the invisibility that you had growing up and how seeing that actually makes it more painful for you in a lot of ways as you get towards the healing part of it. I'm just thinking of all of the people who have felt invisible at some point in their lives. And there's some irony in that that, you know, taking this step of claiming your power and claiming your form, whether it's in writing or art or using your voice, can also have this kind of shadow pain attached to it. What did you learn about that?

[Chani Nicholas]

It was kind of similar to having that first astrological reading. There's one thing about writing something personal, and then there's a whole other thing about putting it in a book and having it be in a literal form and then that thing going out and you've got no control over it anymore. If I write in my journal, no one ever has to see it. But when you put something out into the world, what it did is it shaped me again. I felt the parameters. And what happened for me after the book came out is every night for months, I'd go to bed and I'd be like, did that really happen? Did I lie? Did I make that all?

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes, you were self gaslighting.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Chani Nicholas]

Oh my God. And that is so excruciatingly painful. And it was also just part of my process. But I really felt kind of like, I don't know if I should have done that. I second guessed myself the whole way for months. And it took a lot of therapy and I barely wrote about myself at all. Like, it's a very small little piece of the book. But even putting out that much was wild for me. And it helped me to just say, at the end of the day, that's my story.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Chani Nicholas]

And I'm not putting it out in the world in a way that's blaming anyone, but I'm putting it out in the world. So That I can understand who I am and so that other folks might be like, oh, this is a portal in, and this is how I got here. And it's so important, it's in everything I do. But it's been very hidden. And so now I'm in the process of a little bit with this book and writing other things that are much more explicit so that I can also dismantle the monster under the bed of my own life and be like, it's okay. These scary things happen. They don't have power over me because also they weren't personal. And now I can put it into a context of my life as it is now because there's been a bridge to somewhere else. So it's, I think, really important to know where we are and like, what skills we have to fall back on or coping mechanisms to work through the major backlash that is going to happen within when you do something that is against the grain of what you were taught. Because I grew up around a lot of drug dealers. And the number one thing is you do not talk about is a secret. The cops will come and take everyone away that you love. So you are like, absolutely not. No one can know. So to say that publicly as an adult, my little kid part is like, what are you doing? And so any kind of secret that you've held as a child, once you put that out as an adult, you got to reparent that little kid part and do all that work to tend to all those parts that are like, you just broke all the rules. Yes. I don't know what to say.

[Glennon Doyle]

The cops are coming.

[Chani Nicholas]

You're on your own. Yeah. Where are you?

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

And also there's a little. There's got to be a little part of that little child in you that's going, yes, thank you.

[Glennon Doyle]

I knew that was. You're.

[Abby Wambach]

You're taking care of me now. Yeah, thank you.

[Amanda Doyle]

But that's a boundary issue again. The part about boundaries that's so helpful is knowing in advance when you set this boundary, there will be a backlash that don't be surprised. That doesn't mean that's a wrong boundary. It is inevitable with setting it. So when you. Just saying right now, when you liberate a secret that you've been holding, you should expect that yourself is going to attack yourself for doing that because it's contrary to your self preservation when you were young. That's very helpful.

[Glennon Doyle]

And then you just hold yourself's hand during that time.

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah. You hold your own hand. Yeah. You befriend that part that is terrified and was too young to be handling the situation that you were in and therefore created coping mechanisms and parts of self that would come in and do the protective stuff that no one else was going to do for you and you befriending all those parts is I think, really key. Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

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[Glennon Doyle]

So one thing we have in common that is, I think is really fun, is that. So you tried to avoid astrology, just kept poking itself on your shoulder your whole life. But you were like, no. You say in the book, I want to do something respectable, which I find hilarious, right? So you kept trying to be respectable. Didn't we all, for a while. And then one day you said you started writing. You just kind of gave into this astrology thing. You started a blog, you said, not because I thought anyone would like my brand of astropolitical self help, but because if I didn't channel everything that was awakening me, it would backfire on my system. Oh, so I just want you for all the pod squatters listening, tell us what that means. Because I felt that in my soul. That's why I started writing. I started a blog too. I didn't think anyone would be interested, but I thought if I don't do this thing, I'm gonna make myself crazy or sick because I feel like I have to, even though it won't matter. What did you mean by backfire on my system?

[Chani Nicholas]

It was like something was erupting in me. I had re engaged with the part of me that is really more radical. One of the great things that I got from my childhood is I grew up around and inside of hippie culture 101 and I know how to live on the outskirts. It's part of the reason why I wanted to try to living on the inside. But to live outside of societal norms is really comfortable for me, it turns out. And it's something great about my childhood. And I was reengaging with that part of myself because it had kind of gone dormant for a while. And as all of the education that I was receiving from amazing teachers at California Institute of Integral Studies at my bachelor completion program, they reignited my own activism. And I was seeing things in the world and looking at the astrology and being like, oh my God, this is so obvious to me. And I couldn't but write about it. And so I was like, I don't know, blogspot, like, what do the kids do? And because I think when you feel invisible, which again, a Lot of us do. For various reasons. You don't think anybody's going to pay attention to any that you're doing. So you're like, well, I'll just do this and no one will know. And I don't know what made me put it online. Well, I do. I can look at my chart and be like, there's a part of me that just barrels forth, headfirst, does the thing. And then the part of me that afterwards is like, what did you do? I can't believe you did that. So that part of me was actually getting very activated by transits, which was like midheaven, the part that intersects with the world. And it's so fiery and so self starting that it was like a moment that I didn't really think about it. I just did it. And then I just kept doing it. Because it felt really good.

[Glennon Doyle]

Because it felt really good.

[Chani Nicholas]

It felt really good. It felt like actually for the first time in my life, I felt like I was connected to something. I felt like I was in relationship with something. I had struggled so much in my career and trying to figure out who I was or what I wanted to do. And it made me feel like I wasn't alone. And it was that feeling. It felt like I was like. It was like a religious experience. Almost like something's talking to me and I'm talking to it. And I didn't want to lose that because it was the first time I felt it really clearly and consistently. So I actually am good at showing up. I'll just keep showing up to the thing that has energy.

[Glennon Doyle]

Keep showing up to the thing that has energy. Chani, what the hell is astropolitical self help?

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, gotta get into this.

[Glennon Doyle]

So fun.

[Chani Nicholas]

Listen, I feel the same as you, Glennon. I am deeply annoyed and incredibly critical at anything to do with healing the self that does not then connect to healing the world via dismantling systems of oppression and supremacy. And of course, I'm not the only one who thinks this, but one cannot be without the other. We can't only be trying to fight the stuff out in the world that we need to fight without doing inner work. But we cannot do the inner work without connecting it to some other thing. So that's always where I've written from and done my work from is like, okay, let's understand how to hold our pain and sorrow and suffering, contextualize it, understand our life purpose through the blueprint of our chart. Then let's let that move us into action. That gift is then supposed to go out into the world. And that is how we are meant to be of service. I believe, and I believe our chart, our astrology chart, if it resonates with you, there's a lot of other things you can do besides astrology, obviously, but it can give us the shortcut to that. Oh, this is where I can take action. This is where I can be of service. This is how I can da da da da da da. Good, go.

[Glennon Doyle]

I love it.

[Amanda Doyle]

You said you're interested in healing, but you are really interested in systems change. And I love that because some people might look at an astrologer and be like, what the hell does system change have to do with astrology? But anyone who is in a healing role or a quote unquote, you know, self helpy industry, like anyone that could be looked at as like the healing industrial complex. If you're not, if you're not looking to the systems change, if you're focused on just the healing, you're perpetuating the demand for healing which is driven by the system that wounds to begin with. So all of the people like you are so important because you're connecting those dots. You're saying, I'm, I'm dealing in your healing and I'm also going upstream and trying to deal with how you got wounded in the first place. Do you feel like enough people are doing that? What is your take on that? Industrial healing complex?

[Chani Nicholas]

I think the philanthropic industrial complex and the healing industrial complex are invested in one thing which is self acclaim. I think we want to feel good about ourselves and what happens when we do good, quote, unquote inside of systems of oppression. It doesn't mean we're trying to dismantle the system itself self. It means that we are trying to assuage our guilt and get good pr. A lot of the times that's what's happening. Show me people that are invested in eventually getting to the point where we are obsolete. Every piece of work, every work that we do, every activism that we engage with should be that. So eventually this won't be needed.

[Abby Wambach]

That's so good.

[Chani Nicholas]

I don't want to be a good person inside of a horrible system. I want the system to change so that we all have the ability to get educated, to have healthcare, to thrive, to have food, to just have the basics so that we can remember who we are and why we're here. Which I think is to love and help each other. But we can't get there because there's so many things that are constantly bringing us into chaos and crisis. So I want to be invested in not needing to do this work eventually. I want to solve the problem and I want to talk about how we solve the problem.

[Abby Wambach]

The self help industry needs people who need help.

[Chani Nicholas]

Exactly.

[Abby Wambach]

And it's like, we have to. The work that we're doing is hopefully putting ourselves out of work.

[Glennon Doyle]

It is an end both, because, God help me, we need people who are self aware and emotionally intelligent and, like, are working on their own self healing, who are. Who show up for world healing, too.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

You can't have self healing without world healing. But I also feel like you need a little bit of self awareness before you get to the world healing also.

[Chani Nicholas]

I mean, yeah, we need a balance of both.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Chani Nicholas]

But like, God help me if I'm talking to a bunch of people that have an incredible amount of privilege and I'm not at least like a hot poker.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes.

[Chani Nicholas]

Being like, okay, let's use the privilege. What else is the point of life? But to say, oh, I have this. Let me help.

[Glennon Doyle]

So let's talk about this. Because I wanted to figure out, how do we do this?

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

In a way where everyone who's listening gets a little bit of, okay, I'm this. And we're doing sun signs. I'm learning, Chani. I'm learning. We're going to do our sun signs. We're not gonna do our rising signs or our moon signs or our houses.

[Chani Nicholas]

I mean, I might allude to, you.

[Glennon Doyle]

Can do whatever the hell you want. I'm just trying to prove that I know words.

[Amanda Doyle]

She's showing off that she knows those words.

[Abby Wambach]

Well, Glennon, what is the sun sign?

[Glennon Doyle]

The sign that the sun was in when you were born.

[Abby Wambach]

What does it mean? What's the sign?

[Glennon Doyle]

It's your big sign. It's your major sign. It's your. You know what? Let's let Chani do this. How about that? And then I'm hoping, Chani, that for each sign, that we have something that that sign can do to take care of their own healing and something that that sign might be excellent at contributing to the world.

[Amanda Doyle]

And can I just say one thing that you said, Jani stopped me in my tracks. And for me, it's the ultimate reclaiming of this idea of self help. You said that what your goal is is to really slow down enough to know when you're dysregulated so that you can help yourself in that moment so that you don't do what comes axiomatically to you and then feel like shit after it, but you can really stop in the moment and help yourself. And so I don't know if any of that kind of dysregulation is. Is typical to different sun signs or how we can really slow down and help ourselves, because we're not really looking for help outside of ourselves. We're looking for ways to notice and to be able to show up as partners to ourselves, to help ourselves in those moments.

[Glennon Doyle]

So what does that mean? What does it mean to be dysregulated and Chani. Like, do you have. How do you appear when you're dysregulated?

[Chani Nicholas]

I appear to blame everyone for everything.

[Glennon Doyle]

Oh, yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

Oh, that hurts.

[Chani Nicholas]

Everyone is against me. Everyone's trying to ruin my life, and it's everybody else's fault.

[Glennon Doyle]

Is that wrong? Is that incorrect?

[Amanda Doyle]

No, it's pretty solid.

[Chani Nicholas]

I'm not gonna get anywhere that I like.

[Glennon Doyle]

That's for damn sure.

[Chani Nicholas]

I can be right, or I could be, you know, like, at ease a little bit.

[Glennon Doyle]

So that's how you know you're dysregulated. And then what do you do to regulate? Like, what do you do to get regulated again from that?

[Chani Nicholas]

I mean, my God, isn't that the crux of. Of every therapy healing, good talk session? The way to get there is to recognize the disturbance internally and to then outwork on this until the day I die. And probably when I'm just a ghost. But how do I pause and be like, wait a minute. I could get high on my own, supply my own anger and just spiral out and have a whole good time just raging in my head. Or maybe I could ask myself, what's going on? And if I can get to the like, hold on, what's going on? Then I've got a window. Then I've got a little tiny avenue of space. And then I can usually be like, if I asked my wife about what I'm feeling right now, what would she tell me? So if I can get to, like, what would Sonya say in my head? That's, like, part of my ability to regulate, because I don't want to. I want to be my best self around her. I don't want to. She's part of how I find my own regulation, and she makes me want to be a better person. She's also that part of me, in a sense, that's my true kind of north. And if I can get there, I can usually breathe or find a moment and. And question the anger or the rage or the spiral. And if I can question it, then again, I've got a little piece of hope. But that getting there is like all the work. That two second space between being like, I'm so justified, being so annoyed right now, it's everything.

[Glennon Doyle]

Because then you're just perpetuating harm in that moment. It's like, really? The difference between war and peace is often five seconds.

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah. It's like for a split second.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Robert Half]

This podcast is brought to you by Kleenex Lotion Tissues. You can't predict sick days, but with Kleenex lotion tissues, you can be better prepared for them while helping keep your skin healthy. Whether it's a surprise sneeze or a stuffy nose, it's always good to have something gentle on hand. Kleenex lotion tissues moisturize to help prevent skin irritation while you're battling those unwanted cold and flu symptoms. It's extra care when you need it most. With lotion built into every tissue. Kleenex lotion tissues helps keep your skin moisturized and healthy with every wipe. And for those cold winter days, keep relief within reach. Grab Kleenex lotion tissues to help avoid the added discomfort of irritated skin during the cold and flu season. I mean, why not have one less thing to worry about when you're not feeling your best? We all know life is unpredictable, but if you can be prepared for that time of year when germs are going around by making sure you've always got Kleenex lotion tissues at the ready for whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

[Abby Wambach]

This episode is brought to you by Ring Cameras and Doorbells. A lot happens while you're away from home. That's why Ring makes it easy to check in from anywhere. Whether you're saying hi to an unexpected guest, making sure those packages are safe, or keeping your pet's company. My favorite While you're out grabbing groceries, it's all a few taps away right from your phone. Be there with Ring Explore cameras, doorbells, alarm kits, and more right [e-mail].

[Glennon Doyle]

Okay, so let's figure out all the sweet signs and what helping themselves might look like, or what dysregulation might look like or whatever the hell you.

[Chani Nicholas]

And then also the activism.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, that's a lot. So do with it.

[Glennon Doyle]

So good luck.

[Chani Nicholas]

Chani, how long do we have?

[Glennon Doyle]

All the time.

[Chani Nicholas]

We'll start at the beginning. Aries.

[Glennon Doyle]

Just found out. Told you a channel Just found out. I was an Aries a couple months ago.

[Chani Nicholas]

Okay. Aries launches into space head first, does the thing, doesn't think twice about it, just goes. So a way to regulate is to know that you are Free to take action when you need to. And maybe you don't have to barrel into every single obstacle headfirst without thinking about it. That's one of those red flags of that sign. So the heat and anger of Aries is so wonderful because that moves us into action. But when we don't understand the source of the anger and aren't able to contextualize it, then we get into trouble. And we might burn things down because things need to be burned down, but maybe not that thing. Oops, sorry. Ouch. Fire kind of scorches.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Chani Nicholas]

And when we can channel it, we can really move people and inspire people to action. And that's the activism part of it. Aries is like, let's fucking go. Let us not back down. We will be fierce. We will go forward. Nothing will stop us. And then that energy can also run out, and then you collapse, and then you got to start again. Taurus is a slow, steady earth sign. So part of what it does so well is it keeps us anchored in the action, and it keeps us anchored in the work. And this is how the work works. This is how nature grows. This is the rhythm of life. So where Aries can launch us into things and gets really impatient and just wants things to be done. And why isn't it figured out yet? Taurus is like, because it's the rhythm. We just chill and we wait and we figure it out. A way for Taurus to regulate is going to be to go in the nature. The problem with being so fixed is that we can get stuck being consistent and dependable in a situation that's not good for us, or in a situation that you take a Taurus to a bad movie, they'll stay through the movie. I'm like, let's go.

[Glennon Doyle]

Same.

[Chani Nicholas]

You know what I mean? They know how to stay. So that is good and challenging. So knowing why you're staying and when to leave, Gemini, yeah, is the great communicator. And so in terms of its activism, Gemini is the journalist. Gemini is the information gatherer. And Gemini knows diversity. So Gemini knows how to think about something from all aspects. It's really good at taking in a ton of data and being like, huh, curious, Interesting. Let's see. Let's look at it from every single side. And so it's really helpful in getting the message out. It's also a great propagandist, for better and worse. And it's really good at staying open to curiosity. And we need that inner activism. We need to know how to be curious instead of how Always being inflamed. Why am I inflamed? Let's look at the problem from a million different sides and gather the info. A way for Gemini to take care of themselves is to know when they've been overwhelmed by options and opinions and data and where everything's getting a little too dispersed, and they're kind of going in a gajillion different directions and need to hone in and just pause and take care. Cancer is the sign that initiates us into care and into feeling. So if you have a cancer rising, you might also be really good at gathering people and helping them feel like family. And that's what we need so deeply in our movements, is to make people feel like they're being heard, like you're connecting with them on an emotional level. Cancers are great at doing things that have meaning for them. It's a sign that can kind of work a little bit more personally. And it's so good at helping people feel like they're an important member of the group and to gather folks and to make them feel warm and fuzzy and comforted. Then there's Leo and all fire signs. So Aries, Leo, Sag are really good at storytelling and being really enthusiastically or entertainingly captivating and drawing attention to them. So Leo is ruled by the sun. It's the center of the solar system. It is a bright light in a mass of darkness. And so Leo is like, I'm here to light things up and to captivate you and to pull attention and focus towards sense something. So as an activist, if you can make things entertaining to some degree and also to remember the joy and to light people's spirit up, you're going to get their attention, and you're going to be able to pull it and help you to focus on things. A way for Leo to take care of self is. Well, there can be a thing with Leo where it feels like it hasn't done the performance well enough or hasn't gotten the kind of applause that it thinks it can feel like its pride is kind of hurt or they can kind of be the wounded lion.

[Glennon Doyle]

Like a lion. A lion.

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

Okay.

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah. And so you have to know how to talk to that part of yourself and be like, it doesn't have to land every time. We're allowed to experiment and do all the things Virgo. Virgo is so good at being with what is emergent. Virgo is a mutable sign. And so Virgo is like, I want to be useful. I want to be practical. I want to tend to the Skills that I'm here to develop. And I want to make sure that other people can use those skills. And then I'll feel like I'm of use. I'll feel like I've been of service. I'll feel like I've done something here. And so Virgo is so good to tending to all the needs that are happening along the way and being like, oh, things have changed. Let's shift, let's move, let's do this thing. And it's so good about being resourceful, practical, and making sure that all the little pieces are attended to and that emerging sense of things are changing. There's a shift in the wind, like, okay, now what do we do? It wants to be flexible. It knows how to be flexible. Flexible to tend to the self. Virgo is also incredibly critical, which is such a gift, because it can be like, no, that's not the problem. This thing is the problem. We're focusing on this, but it's really this. Let's get specific. In particular, of course, if you turn that in on yourself and you pick yourself apart, then you're fucked. And you won't get anywhere and you won't do anything because you're kind of immobilized by your own self criticism.

[Glennon Doyle]

So I always say, just be critical of others, not self. Because I have a Virgo rising. So I just make sure only outward.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes, that's good. I'm sure that's best practice.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, right. Thank you.

[Chani Nicholas]

And you're never critical about yourself. Yeah, right.

[Amanda Doyle]

Not once.

[Chani Nicholas]

So it's really tending to that part that doesn't know how to do anything but attack the self and pick it apart. Like, okay, buffer, swaddle, let's talk, take a nap. Libra is the sign of justice. So the scales of justice are always being weighed by this sign. And if anything is out of balance, Libra's like, oh, it's out of balance, gotta fix it. So we can always depend on Libras to point out what is out of balance, what is not equitable. The problem with that is that it's outward focused and it's focused on the collective. And so Libra themselves get out of balance because they're so relationship focused. Their tendency is to go to the other person rather than stay with themselves. So learning how to stay with yourself is really important, especially for Libra sun people. Scorpio is so good at getting to the truth. It is a penetrating sign. It goes underneath the surface and the niceties of life and of exchanges and is like, that's Bullshit. This is the truth. Let me get down to it. And it also knows how to take on systems of power. And it understands power and power structures so incredibly important in our movements because we need to understand how to do that. Aries and Scorpio are both ruled by Mars. Aries attacks head on and with flaming swords and just fury and like, watch me do this thing. I'll rush into the crowd and I'll do the thing. Scorpio's like, no, no, no. You won't see me coming. I will be stealth. I will be underground like a fox. That's right. It's the stinger of the scorpion. So it'll wait forever for the right moment to strike. And that is so important, as we know, because there are other movements that will take 50 years to dismantle the right to bodily autonomy, and they do not waver. So too must we be so focused and so determined and absolutely refuse to get off course and to figure out when and where it's important to make those strikes.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes, Calculated strikes.

[Chani Nicholas]

And we need all of it. Right? So the Scorpio part of your chart knows how to do that.

[Abby Wambach]

Let's go.

[Chani Nicholas]

Scorpio Investments in Scorpio. Yeah. We love you. We need you. There'll be the one in the boardroom that doesn't say anything till the very end and then says the thing. You're like, oh, my God, that's exactly it. Sagittarius lights everything up. Another fire sign. It is all about faith and how we might move with a greater philosophy. SAG wants to move. It's the galloping centaur, right? So it's got to feel free. You cannot hem a Saggyn. So part of the self regulation is to again let yourself be like, it's okay, I'm free. I can move. I'm not stuck here. Because SAG is always aiming for the truth. What is the truth? They keep us oriented towards that spiritual, if you will, or philosophical truth, that if we keep on this direction, if we keep oriented towards that thing, we'll get somewhere that has meaning for us and we will feel like our life energy was well spent. And that is essential for our movements because those are the people that keep that flame alive within us and keep us wanting to show up because they galvanize us on that kind of spiritual or soulful kind of level. Capricorn. Capricorn's got a plan and another strategy. And if you've ever seen a mountain goat, they do the literal impossible thing before breakfast. They're these giant beasts that scale the side of a mountain.

[Abby Wambach]

How do they do that?

[Glennon Doyle]

I don't know how.

[Amanda Doyle]

It's unbelievable.

[Abby Wambach]

They're like.

[Chani Nicholas]

They're like.

[Glennon Doyle]

I think they have magnets.

[Amanda Doyle]

Little suction cups.

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah, exactly. So the Capricorn placements in your chart do that. And if there's something that we need in this world, it's to be like, I can climb that mountain. I can figure that out. Martin Luther King was a Capricorn sun, and you might say that what he set out to do was impossible. There's a relentlessness to the sign. It's like, I'll get to the top. It might take everything I've got, but that's where I'm going. I'm going to the goal. Let's go. And it's a cardinal sign. So it initiates that kind of journey with us all. And so Capricorn's like, it's tough. I'm not going to say it's not hard, but we're going, let's go.

[Amanda Doyle]

We can do hard things.

[Chani Nicholas]

That's right.

[Amanda Doyle]

It's Capricorn energy.

[Chani Nicholas]

Aquarius is the great visionary of the zodiac.

[Amanda Doyle]

Hmm.

[Chani Nicholas]

Angela Davis, Toni Morrison, Audre Lorde. I call them the Aquarian Trinity, Holy Trinity. They give us the intellectual understanding about where we are, how we're situated systemically. They're known as the humanitarian sign. So their work is always going to be about the group. How are we being organized by the systems we live within? Why are we being organized in that way? And what is the impact on the collective? This is a sign of the whole. So obviously, the downside of that is that oftentimes they don't even feature themselves at all. It's like, I don't want the attention. So oftentimes there can be a feeling of not neglect, but something in their own sense of self might go without. So there's a need to feed and acknowledge the self in ways that maybe you're overworking for the collective. And because it's such a brilliant sign, we can get locked in the head. So a way to regulate is to go down into the body, and then we end with Pisces. Pisces. The part of your chart that has Pisces in it is the part of us that knows oneness. It's the part of us that remembers existing before we got here. It's the part that knows that's suffering. That person is in pain. That person needs tending to. There's no boundary between me and them. We are all one.

[Amanda Doyle]

They're the. We belong to Each other ones.

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah, it's the great connector. It's the one that says all of these systems try to keep us separated, but at the end of the day, we leave all of this behind and we go back into that big ocean. We are not separate droplets, we are all part of this big thing. And so we feel connected, we feel included, we feel called in. And it's a sign that can again tap into the emotional aspect of something, which is how we get each other's attention. So part of the ways in which Pisces needs to help itself and self regulate is that it's so easy for Pisces to get lost in everybody else and feeling all the pain and sorrow of the world. And so part of its lesson is to not self sacrifice.

[Abby Wambach]

Is it common for a lot of people that you speak with and read charts for? Is it common for them to feel jealous about all the other signs? Because I feel like when you talk, I'm like. I feel like I want to be a different sign.

[Chani Nicholas]

What sign do you want to be?

[Glennon Doyle]

I don't know.

[Abby Wambach]

All of the other ones sound better.

[Chani Nicholas]

Than mine, than Gemini or than Capricorn or then Cancer because you're Cancer rising. So you know how to, you know how to herd the family.

[Abby Wambach]

Okay, I do.

[Amanda Doyle]

And that is a full time ass job for you.

[Chani Nicholas]

But also when you were a captain, were you not the one that was tending to the group in a way that was really nourishing?

[Abby Wambach]

You're right. It's just like grass is always greener. Just everybody else sounds such a Capricorn.

[Chani Nicholas]

Moon thing to say. Wah wah. Your Capricorn moon is so important because you're Cancer rising. So the moon is the seer's person of your ship. And that moon is in the seventh house of relationships. So I don't know if you've ever had a relationship in your life that's been life altering and you feel like it's part of your life's purpose. But your chart clearly says that one of the most important things for you to do is to find partners. Romantic, platonic business, et cetera, that help you to feel like you're fulfilling your life's purpose. And when that is off track, everything will feel off kilter.

[Abby Wambach]

Holy fuck. You just described my life in two sentences.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes, do me.

[Chani Nicholas]

Okay, said the Aries. So listen, you've got Virgo rising and that means that Mercury is the Sears person of your chart. And guess where Mercury is in your chart in retrograde, it's in the same place as Abby's Seventh house. It's in the seventh house of marriage and partnership and commitments. So I don't know if any of your work has ever centered around the people that you're in partnership with, but that is. And it's Mercury. So it's about writing and speaking and communicating and telling a story. And it's in Pisces. So it's about understanding the pain and suffering that we all go through and intimacy and all that kind of stuff. But if you haven't yet written, I don't know, a book or blogs or whatever about marriage, partnership, love, connection, pain, it would be a good thing for you to do.

[Amanda Doyle]

Put it on your vision board, Doyle. Put it up there. Great idea, Chani.

[Chani Nicholas]

Also, you've got your son in the 8th House of Suffering and loss and grief and mental health stuff. And you have an exalted son, which means it is very courageous and brave and well situated. So you are that person that's like, I will go bravely into this pain cave and I will light it up and I will find some way to creatively express this kind of hardship and this challenge, and I will be able to light my path through this and maybe want to illuminate that in the world. What causes our suffering? What causes our pain? What causes, you know, spot on mental health.

[Glennon Doyle]

Good at our job.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. Can you do Amanda?

[Chani Nicholas]

Amanda, you don't need to.

[Glennon Doyle]

It's cool.

[Amanda Doyle]

Come on.

[Chani Nicholas]

Well, the thing about. I mean, Amanda, I have to say, when I look at charts like yours, I'm like, oh, my God, this is a gorgeous chart. I'm not saying you haven't suffered. I'm not saying you don't have all your stuff, but you have Pisces rising. And the ruler of your ascendant is Jupiter. And Jupiter is so well placed, it's in cancer, which is a sign of its exaltation. So it means that faith and abundance and opening up opportunities is part of your jam. But it's in cancer. So it's nurturing and nourishing, and it's in the fifth house of creative self expression, but also children. So for you children and tending to, making sure children's lives are better, all of that kind of activism is so essential and important for you. Jupiter is also the teacher, the one who wants to bring through the wisdom. But you also have Venus in Pisces in your first house, which is another exalted planet. So it's like, people love you. You're so easy to be with, and you're so kind and you're such an Incredible connector. Like, I could put you anywhere, and you would make friends with everyone and you know their life story. You'd know too much about them. They'd overshare with you. You have this. Venus is the goddess. It's the one who's extraordinarily awe inspiring. Like, wow, I want to be with that. I want to be with that person. I'm magnetized to that. The problem is that people can pedestalize you or that you don't even know how valuable these things are, and you can just give them all away. So, again, part of your thing is you're an Aries son, so you're a fighter, and you're feisty and fierce and courageous and all of that, but you lead with this major compassion and ability to connect with people, and it's so beautiful. Wow.

[Glennon Doyle]

Damn, Chani, you're doing good things in a good way in the world, for real. I mean, I just think about that little girl. You were who somebody reached out and saw you, and now you are reaching out and seeing everyone, like millions of people, and they're feeling seen, and they're not just feeling seen. They're activating in the world once they figure out their own worth and their own gifts. And it's just a freaking wonderful reaction in the world that you're creating. It's really cool to witness.

[Amanda Doyle]

And also, I just like to say, Chani, you saw yourself, which is so huge. It's like you were that little tiny girl and you saw yourself and you knew what you were and where you needed to be, and that's just so beautiful. You partnered with yourself so early, and you still are, and you're helping people see themselves and partner with themselves, and I just think that's so beautiful.

[Chani Nicholas]

Thank you. I mean, I almost died a lot, but, you know.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, well.

[Chani Nicholas]

Well, you know, I certainly wasn't careful with myself for a very long time or, like.

[Glennon Doyle]

But yeah, yeah, Chani, tell everybody. Can you just actually tell people how to get your app? Because I think it's really cool. You go to your.

[Amanda Doyle]

It's free, y'all. You can just go there and get all your shit.

[Abby Wambach]

Go to your app store.

[Chani Nicholas]

You can download it. App Store, Chani. C H A N I.

[Glennon Doyle]

So cool.

[Chani Nicholas]

Yeah, Chani. Nicholas.com for the skeptics.

[Amanda Doyle]

I mean, the way that you talk about astrology, Chani, you say that astrology tells us that we live in an intelligent universe that is in conversation with us. And by the way, so does science, and so does religion, and so does any other number of things that we choose to consult in our lives. So it's just an interesting way to think about an intelligent universe that we are in conversation with.

[Glennon Doyle]

Cool.

[Robert Half]

So check out.

[Chani Nicholas]

That's mirroring us.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes.

[Chani Nicholas]

It's like, yeah. Talking.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah. All right, well, for the rest of you, go check out your birth charts, figure out something you can do to heal yourself, something you can do to heal the world, and we will catch you back here next time on We Can Do Hard Things. See you soon. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode, and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on Follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.

[Amanda Doyle]

Sat.