← We Can Do Hard Things
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- [00:00]
Glennon Doyle
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- [00:33]
Abby Wambach
Okay, y'all. So I often have to make these presentations to show the kind of work that we do to partners or people outside of our business. That was always very tricky for me because I didn't know what the hell I was doing until Allison, our wonderful team member, taught me about Canva. Canva is a platform that helps you simply and easily make presentations that are beautiful and. And simple and easy even for someone like me without any design experience. You start with this stunning template, and then you can drag and drop graphics, add eye catching charts, and incorporate animation even to really make your slides stand out. And what's even better is that if you're short on time, you can generate slides and text in seconds with a prompt, keeping you on task without juggling multiple apps. And if you're working with the team, collaboration is a breeze. You'll love the presentations you can easily design with Canva. Your audience will too love your work with canva presentations@canva.com okay, well then. What you doing, babe? Why are you screaming like that?
- [01:52]
Amanda Doyle
I just had to do a yawn. Ha ha. I just needed. I needed to do a yawn.
- [01:58]
Abby Wambach
Ha ha. Okay, what's a yawn?
- [02:00]
Glennon Doyle
Ha is the ha ha.
- [02:01]
Amanda Doyle
I just, you know, sometimes when you're like, yawn. You ever do that? Like, you need to like, ha it out.
- [02:09]
Abby Wambach
Okay. I'm so excited that this is recorded. I just feel like I have been suffering for so long with Abbie's need to make every bodily function terrifying. Like, the sneeze would register on the Richter scale with how loud it is. And even the yawn, which is like a quiet thing, and then there's like an animal scream after.
- [02:32]
Amanda Doyle
It's not a quiet thing for me.
- [02:34]
Abby Wambach
That's it. That's right. That's right.
- [02:36]
Amanda Doyle
This is a thing in our marriage that isn't gonna change. This is what we're gonna keep doing until we're dead.
- [02:42]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [02:43]
Glennon Doyle
This is the only area of my marriage in which I've been able to actually achieve radical acceptance.
- [02:49]
Abby Wambach
Well, that's good. So who's loud? Who's the loud sneezer?
- [02:52]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, John sneezes so loud that I feel like there's no way he's not making that up.
- [03:00]
Amanda Doyle
That's what she thinks too. I think she. I think they think it's performative, but I promise you it's not.
- [03:06]
Glennon Doyle
It's not. Our marriage was in real, real shaking ground one day on a plane where Bobby was a baby. And I had. I was having like a panic attack because he was balling. And we were flying on an eight hour flight, bawling, bawling, balling. We hadn't even taken off yet. And I was like, this is going to be eight hours of this. He was an infant and I had finally gotten him to sleep and it was like a full body experience of anxiety for me. And I was holding him and my whole body was tense. I was like holding him in the most uncomfortable position because that was the only way I could get him to not be screaming. And as soon as you fell asleep, John sneezed.
- [03:47]
Abby Wambach
No.
- [03:48]
Glennon Doyle
And he woke up and I was.
- [03:49]
Abby Wambach
Like, this is your child file paperwork. Yeah. This is your child now forever. Wow.
- [03:56]
Glennon Doyle
And then you feel crazy because you're like you can't do anything to control that.
- [04:00]
Abby Wambach
Allegedly.
- [04:02]
Glennon Doyle
But I feel like you can.
- [04:04]
Abby Wambach
I feel like you can too.
- [04:06]
Amanda Doyle
No, you can.
- [04:06]
Abby Wambach
Scary.
- [04:07]
Amanda Doyle
I'm telling you, we can control it. I have done it. When I'm out in public, I'm like this. I like, swallow it.
- [04:15]
Glennon Doyle
Oh. So I should have filed that day because you could have done.
- [04:18]
Amanda Doyle
My eyeballs are about to pop out of my face.
- [04:20]
Glennon Doyle
Well, so were mine. I was holding a baby for eight hours and basically with my body upside down.
- [04:27]
Abby Wambach
Yeah, yeah.
- [04:28]
Glennon Doyle
This is neither here nor there anyway.
- [04:29]
Abby Wambach
Well, it is. It is here and there is where it is and every and everywhere. What I do, because I am not a very good person is that I blatantly withhold my God bless you when the sneezes are too loud.
- [04:46]
Amanda Doyle
Are you kidding me?
- [04:48]
Abby Wambach
Nope. I can't believe you haven't noticed. I will not say God bless you to a loud sneezer. I hope that the ancient teachings are right and that's where the devil gets right in your body. And that's what I do. I do not bless the devil out of your body. If you're going to be so loud as to instill the fear of God in me, then I'm gonna hope the devil sneaks right in during that sneeze.
- [05:09]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, my God. That is really embarrassing.
- [05:12]
Abby Wambach
I'm bad.
- [05:13]
Amanda Doyle
I feel embarrassed for you.
- [05:14]
Abby Wambach
Okay, so. So if you're having a bad day, karma Is my boyfriend okay? Feeling a little possessed.
- [05:27]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [05:28]
Abby Wambach
That's because I did not. Bless you.
- [05:30]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, it's the back to school.
- [05:31]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, I assumed you knew that the karma was coming back to you, Glennon.
- [05:34]
Abby Wambach
Oh, no, no, no, no. Karma is a cat.
- [05:38]
Amanda Doyle
We're having. We're having a moment in our family. Like the back to school. Everything has been wild.
- [05:43]
Abby Wambach
We are so mad at each other. Everyone in our house is mad at each other, but they don't.
- [05:47]
Amanda Doyle
The kids don't really know it, but I'm, like, seething.
- [05:50]
Abby Wambach
So apropos of nothing, what we have decided to come together today and discuss is something that the Pod Squad has been calling in and requesting is a topic for a long time. And it is because it is something that happens to all of us every single year, and it is something that causes all kinds of complicated feelings inside of us. If the emails stop yawning, we're doing. Am I keeping you awake?
- [06:26]
Glennon Doyle
So it's contagious to me that I'm yawning and then I'm making it contagious to her, and we're just yawning back and forth. Did you yawn?
- [06:33]
Amanda Doyle
Did you yawn?
- [06:33]
Abby Wambach
Yana Paloozo. I'm trying to record a podcast.
- [06:40]
Amanda Doyle
It's just. I can't stop thinking about it, so I'm doing it, you know, it's contagious.
- [06:45]
Abby Wambach
So what we're talking about is birthdays and all of the complicated feelings that birthdays bring up in us each year. We have figured it out. We have figured out exactly why birthdays are so complicated and difficult for a lot of us. And I believe that by the end of this podcast, you will have some ideas about how to make your birthday less sucky.
- [07:10]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [07:10]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. I think we're gonna fix birthdays today. What do you all think? Or are you too bored to answer?
- [07:16]
Amanda Doyle
I mean, I. I don't. I don't think we're gonna fix birthdays. We're gonna talk about birthdays. That's for sure. What we're gonna do on this. All right, let's.
- [07:25]
Glennon Doyle
I'm gonna try really hard not to sing it's your birthday.
- [07:29]
Abby Wambach
No, no, you're not gonna sing 50 Cent on our podcast.
- [07:31]
Amanda Doyle
Is that 50 Cent?
- [07:32]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [07:34]
Amanda Doyle
Get busy.
- [07:35]
Abby Wambach
Okay. No, that's not even in the song. Get busy.
- [07:39]
Amanda Doyle
It's your birthday. What's the party?
- [07:41]
Abby Wambach
Like it's your birthday. We're gonna drink Bacardi like it's your birthday. We don't give a fuck cuz it's your birthday like that All Right. I think it's interesting that one of the reasons why I started my friendship journey in the last season, where I'm trying to gather and invest in and work on my friendship life, is because it was kind of catalyzed by a birthday.
- [08:10]
Amanda Doyle
Catalyzed as a word.
- [08:13]
Glennon Doyle
So think catalytic converter. Oh, cool.
- [08:16]
Amanda Doyle
Cars. Thank you. I got that.
- [08:19]
Abby Wambach
Okay. One of my birthdays a couple years ago, I woke up. March 20th is my birthday. And I had a lot of birthday messages from pod squatters and people on the interwebs. But the whole day, from beginning to end, I got four texts from people outside of my family. Four people, four real life people remembered it was my birthday and reached out to say happy birthday. And I was like, ew, that feels, like, really bad. And I sat with it for a while, and then I realized that, in fact, karma is my boyfriend. And if you never write back or call anyone or invest in other people, then they will not invest in you. It was a birthday because birthdays feel like some kind of big day where the whole life of you is tested and, like, spotlit and put into contrast. It's like a referendum on your life. That's how a birthday can. That's one reason why birthdays are hard. What do you think, Sissy?
- [09:39]
Glennon Doyle
I think on a surface level, it's sort of like New Year's Eve, where we think all this magic is gonna happen and things are gonna be new and fresh and there's gonna be some kind of revelation, but there's usually not. Like you, Glennon, think that cause of all of your hope and faith in the world, that Abby will stop sneezing loud. We think in spite of ourselves and in spite of all evidence to the contrary, like, a birthday is gonna have all these magical things that it hasn't had before. And then when it doesn't, it feels sad. It does feel like this referendum that is quantifiable. Like, you're like, I got four texts. Okay. That is basically a performance evaluation of where I stand in the world. You know, my popularity or my lovability or my worthiness, that if we have these criteria that we've met, like a lot of people celebrating us, a lot of people reaching out to us, that that means something. And if it doesn't, then we feel like we've failed. That's, like, at a surface level. But then I think at a deeper level, there's this whole idea of birthdays where we rarely take any moments to look at the state of things. And birthdays are kind of a forced moment to do that. And on the deeper level, it's like you're asking like, do I matter?
- [11:26]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [11:27]
Glennon Doyle
Does my being born matter? Am I seen by anyone? Am I known by anyone? Am I celebrated for who I am? Am I loved? It's kind of like this is the moment that I get those answers, even though I haven't asked those questions. Maybe yes. There's this kind of underlying expectation that those answers will be delivered to you on that day. And if they're not, then the answer is nope. Nopony, Nope, nope.
- [12:01]
Abby Wambach
And it's like a forced stillness. It's like for the rest of the days, we can busy up and like, conjure up our own worthiness. We can make it so we can call the people, we can show up, we can do the email, we can like, busy ourselves up and reach outward to to prove to ourselves that we are important and loved and whatever. But on our birthday, it's like this different posture where we just have to sit there and wait. If other people reach out to us, like, we can't put ourselves in their lives. We have to see if they care enough about us to leave their own lives and reach out to us sitting in our house.
- [12:41]
Amanda Doyle
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- [13:20]
Glennon Doyle
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- [14:27]
Amanda Doyle
And spring is in the air, it's the perfect time to escape the usual routine and take a refreshing getaway. I recently discovered how special a spring retreat can be when I book an Airbnb. Instead of a hotel, we found a peaceful cottage. So cute, tucked away in the countryside, surrounded by so many blooming flowers and the sound of birds chirping. It was exactly what we needed. A quiet little escape with all the comforts of home. We had the whole place to ourselves, with plenty of space to cook breakfast and enjoy meals at our own pace. Unwind with a good book in a cozy corner and even step outside to relax on the porch. Whether you're with family, friends, or flying solo, Airbnb gives you the home away from home experience with the space and freedom to truly relax. If you're looking for your own spring retreat, Airbnb has the perfect spot waiting for you. I have a complicated relationship with birthdays because being the youngest of a huge family, when I was really young, you know, they do the big celebrations, and then as you get older, because I was the youngest, we would just celebrate a birthday during dinner. Like, that's what we did.
- [15:43]
Glennon Doyle
Did you get to pick your meal?
- [15:45]
Amanda Doyle
I did. I always chose marinated steak for some reason. That was my favorite growing up. But, like, I feel like we're setting our. Our adult selves up for real failure. Yes, because these huge parties are thrown for us when we're children, and then as we get older, they stop, they go away. At least that was the case for me. And I feel like it's kind of sad, like, because we're getting older by one year every year, and there's an existential dread that's happening, like, oh, I'm getting older. And then we get celebrated in many ways, like, less and less as we get older. And so it's kind of this, like, sad hope for younghood.
- [16:31]
Abby Wambach
Yeah, interesting, interesting. It's, like, all nostalgic. Yeah, nostalgic can make us sick. Okay, so if you really think about how we've set up birthdays for ourselves in our culture, we have made a pile of things that drive us nuts that actually make human beings miserable. So birthdays are based on, number one, expectations. We have these idea that's just hidden from everyone else of what we hope will happen or we think should happen, or we Expect should happen based on this or that or that.
- [17:09]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, our secret expectations.
- [17:10]
Abby Wambach
Our secret expectations. Expectations are just, you know, as we all know, let's just resentments waiting to happen. Right. So expectations are a nightmare. That's what birthdays are based on. Number two. They're based on comparisons. The more I think about it, everything is comparison. Today is my birthday. I am today comparing myself to everybody else who had a birthday this year, who posted on Instagram, who has 20 friends where I have two, who has this cake where I have this one. I'm comparing myself not only to other people, but myself. Last year, like, did all the things happen this year that I thought would. Would. I'm comparing myself to the. Where I thought I would be at this age. Like, when I was young, I was 47, I had this. I had this. I had this. I had this.
- [17:58]
Amanda Doyle
Didn't you think when you were young, 47 was, like, almost dead? Yep.
- [18:01]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [18:02]
Glennon Doyle
For some people it is.
- [18:03]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. So comparison. Expectations. Comparison, then. Existential dread. The big three of things that drive human beings mad, and they are all centered on our birthday. I think a lot of people would say it's getting older that makes me upset every year. That's just existential dread. That is one thing that I actually don't have. I'm so. Every time there's an anxiety or a worry or misery that I don't have, I just want to say it because it makes me so happy.
- [18:39]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, you're not weird.
- [18:41]
Abby Wambach
No, this is my theory. I had a really rough go of it as a young person because of addiction and all the things. So my life keeps getting better the older I get. I just keep being happier because the beginning was rough for me, so I would never want to be younger. I wouldn't go back for all the money in the world. But you, sister, I think you do. Have you told me that you have some worry each year about aging or.
- [19:11]
Glennon Doyle
We've talked about this on other episodes about, like, Horizon living, where I love to live in the future. I love projects and planning and building. I think I've mentioned the time before where I had, like, a complete breakdown when the man told me that we had just purchased the last boiler we'd ever need for the house. And that was my existential moment, because I was like, what do you mean, the last of anything? Like, there's not gonna be more boilers. There's not gonna be endless plans. There's not gonna be endless building. That, for me, was just more about coming from a place of what makes me giddy is like, the possibilities are endless. Let's plan our way to heaven. We're just gonna make projects and plans and do them. And really, the making of the plan and the project is what gets me excited. So I think as I look just at numbers, I think, oh, actually, the projects are, in fact, not endless, and the possibilities are not endless. The possibilities are best case scenario, you know, four more decades. That is a finite number of projects. And if you're always living into the projects, like, what happens when there's nothing left to plan for at the end, like, when there's no ramp to the next thing you're building, then that really freaks me out because it makes me think, oh, I don't want to get to the place where there's no more on ramp to a project and figure out that I've done it all wrong. That, like, it, in fact, was never about the project. It was about the being there. So I think I've had a different relationship with just time because of that. I'm trying to orient my time more now. And I think also my life has been changed by. I'm walking my dear friend through the end of her life right now. And she is 47. Which is why when you said, you know, 47 is almost dead, I was like, yeah, 40, 47 is almost dead for some of us. And I think that has just changed. It sounds cliche, but I think it's true that it's just kind of changed my feeling of any year we have is so freaking lucky. And it's a luck. I mean, you call it blessing. It's blessing if you call it. But, like, my friend Wendy is more worthy of blessings than anyone I know. And that's her story. And so I feel, like, so lucky. And it's just kind of. I know we talked to Andrea Gibson, and they were talking about how it just changed their whole view of their body instead of, like, trying to make it correct, being just so deeply grateful for it. And I. I mean, it's right in front of my face. She has a child the same age as my child, and. And it could just be different. Anyone could find out in a hot minute that you got six months, you got a year. And so it just feels so supremely silly then to have angst.
- [22:45]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. Going to the Andrea thing, it's like they said Megan said that Megan had spent so much time hating her body and worrying about the shape of her body. And then one day, Andrea said, because Andrea had been diagnosed with cancer, and Andrea said, I just so badly Want to have a body. And it's like on our birthdays, we're like, I want this different kind of life. I want a different life. I want it to be different. And instead of being like, I'm just so grateful to have a life.
- [23:18]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [23:19]
Abby Wambach
And I like what you said about the blessing versus luck thing. I just so reject every time someone says, I'm so blessed because of this or that. I know everyone's saying it with good intentions, but it's confusing because it's like, oh, so then the other person's unblessed. Like, if you're blessed to have your health, then what is my neighbor like, God was less excited to bless them.
- [23:45]
Glennon Doyle
I like, I'm grateful.
- [23:47]
Abby Wambach
Yeah, I'm grateful because then it doesn't matter the source.
- [23:49]
Glennon Doyle
It's like, if you're grateful. And by the way, Wende is more grateful for her life than anyone I know currently, right now, in this moment. So it doesn't mean just because you're blessed, Lucky, doesn't mean you're grateful.
- [24:03]
Abby Wambach
Right?
- [24:04]
Glennon Doyle
Blessed out of your mind, Totally, deeply ungrateful for your life.
- [24:07]
Amanda Doyle
That's right.
- [24:08]
Glennon Doyle
Just being grateful is probably what we should be.
- [24:11]
Abby Wambach
Well, let's look at the list that we were talking about of the things that make us miserable on our birthdays. Expectations. The opposite of that is gratitude for whatever's here. Comparison. The opposite of that is gratitude, Existential dread, fear of what will be. Opposite of that is gratitude for what is now. So it looks like everything that makes us miserable on our birthday could be fixed, undone if we focused completely on gratitude for whatever is.
- [24:46]
Glennon Doyle
And that's also very hard, of course. It's not the way of things except in moments, you know? So it's hard to sustain that. But I think it's interesting because the reverse of that, right, is if you have people in your life that you're grateful for, why aren't we able to make them feel our gratitude and make them feel like they matter to us? And, you know, if everyone's out there having very confused feelings on their birthday, why aren't we able to transmit our gratitude for the people in our lives to make them feel a little differently?
- [25:28]
Abby Wambach
Mm. Is it just because everyone's birthday is everyone else's just normal? Hard day of life. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's hard to figure that system out. Like, we don't all get to stop on everyone else's day and tell our kids and our job and our family and our sickness and our whatever that this is Jody's Day. It's just a bad system. You know, instead of everyone having an individual birthday, if we had like an international holiday, which was like gratitude of people you love day. And we all on that day agreed that we were going to stop and tell each other whatever. But this June 2, being her birthday and being everyone else's. June 2 is a tricky situation.
- [26:15]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah. I'm thinking of what Abby just said about how it's a setup that we, we celebrate the shit out of kids. It's like a setup to begin with because they've really peaked too early the rest of their lives. It's gonna be a disappointment. But it's interesting to think of it that way. I'm thinking of it from the reverse. I've always said, like, I'm not a birthday person. I don't care. John isn't either. We don't even exchange gifts. We're like, happy birthday and were really nice to each other on our birthdays. So I'm like, I'm not a birthday person. But that's a dirty lie because I'm obsessed with giving my kids really happy special birthdays. So I'm selectively a birthday person. I'm a birthday person to the little people, but not to me. And so I wonder if the question isn't like, maybe we need to stop hyping them up so much. Cause it's a letdown. And more like, is there a world in which everyone deserves to be celebrated like a child is celebrated, like stupidly and exuberantly. And is that like the ache we have?
- [27:25]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. And maybe we don't get it all year. Maybe most people feel unseen and unloved all year. And then on their birthday they're like, at least this day, please.
- [27:38]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [27:39]
Amanda Doyle
And then it's also kind of like this resentment. Like just one fucking day. Are you kidding me?
- [27:45]
Abby Wambach
And then you feel like people don't even get that right. I always think of that scene from the Bear where Jamie Lee Curtis is in the kitchen freaking out. And she's like, I make things beautiful for everyone and no one makes things beautiful for me. And it was a wild scene. But I think about that all the time. That that is a caregiver's internal mantra. Do you guys have any good memories or stories about birthdays?
- [28:14]
Amanda Doyle
When I was in second grade, I was at this school and I remember my mom showing up at our school on my birthday with friendly's little ice cream cups. You know, the ones that had the spoons.
- [28:32]
Abby Wambach
Oh yeah.
- [28:33]
Amanda Doyle
It was like high quality treat. And I remember we Were all going out to the playground and she walked up and she had, you know, 20 of these friendly cups in this brown bag. And I just like, I remember like looking at my mom and being so proud that that was my mom and so proud to be able to hand out each one of my classmates one of these friendly cups. And we sat on the side of the playground and we ate our ice cream and then we played on the playground for a little while.
- [29:10]
Abby Wambach
Oh, that's so good.
- [29:11]
Amanda Doyle
I don't have many memories of my childhood, but that was a really good day.
- [29:15]
Abby Wambach
I just love the little things about birthdays so on. In our family, we always start everyone's birthday with breakfast in bed. Even now, like if the kids are at our house, Craig comes over at like 6am all like bleary eyed with his coffee and we all hang out outside the hallway of whoever's birthday it is. And then we start singing and walk into the bedroom and you know when they were little they'd wake up and their eyes would be all big and they'd be so cause. And now they're teenagers and they're like, ugh. But they would be so upset if we didn't do it. And then we sing Happy Birthday and then we have our annual family argument about the birthday song. Because I insist that the birthday song is done wrong. Because it sounds like a dirge.
- [30:05]
Amanda Doyle
It's like it's a dirge.
- [30:07]
Abby Wambach
A funeral song. It's like happy birthday to.
- [30:13]
Amanda Doyle
What would you predict? What do you. What do you think?
- [30:16]
Abby Wambach
I just start it and I pick up the 10th belt.
- [30:19]
Amanda Doyle
We're walking in their bedroom and it's also like a wake up song. So that she's like, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Chase. Happy birthday to you.
- [30:28]
Abby Wambach
Right. Which is better and sounds better and sounds like we're happy you were born and we're not sad you were born. And also it just takes too long the other way. So I have been on a long mission to change the birthday song. Tish last year or a couple years ago said, mom, could you stop it? Just stop it. And I said, what? Why? I'm making it happy. And she said, do you think it's possible that it's long because that person gets a moment, like that person gets to stand there while everyone is looking at them and they get to take it in that it's a purposely beautifully long. And I was like, huh?
- [31:10]
Glennon Doyle
Do you want to know why it's actually long? Why is because it was made by a kindergarten teacher. Named Mildred Hill. And it was actually first good morning to all. And it used to be how she greeted her class every day. Good morning to all. Good morning to all. And so she actually would do that with her whole class. And her whole class loved it so much that they started using it at their birthday parties and changing the words. And then it was put into a Broadway show in 1931, and Mildred and her sister Patty sued the shit out of the Broadway show and they got the copyright to the song because it was theirs. And since then, the Guinness Book of World Records has the song as one of the top three most songs sung in America. And the Hill estate still gets $2 million in royalties every year.
- [32:08]
Abby Wambach
No.
- [32:09]
Glennon Doyle
For that song. The copyright expires in 2030.
- [32:14]
Abby Wambach
Oh, that is so amazing.
- [32:16]
Amanda Doyle
That's amazing. Who's going to get that copyright?
- [32:18]
Abby Wambach
Mildred?
- [32:19]
Glennon Doyle
They go public because you can't control copyrights forever. But that's a really long time. The hill. The hills are rolling.
- [32:27]
Amanda Doyle
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- [33:41]
Glennon Doyle
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- [34:48]
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- [35:52]
Amanda Doyle
Do you feel like you've always been a little let down on your birthday? Like the birthday hasn't hit your expectations? And so is this like a source of. I'm never gonna remember it.
- [36:03]
Abby Wambach
Not as an adult. I just remember always feeling like I don't like this.
- [36:08]
Amanda Doyle
Huh.
- [36:09]
Abby Wambach
And I don't know why or how. I just remember feeling like you have the birthday party and then your friends come over. Then you're you feel like, you know, they're guests so your mom has to be nicer to them, has to be like, pay attention to them and there's all kinds of people all around and then you can't win your own games. You have to be all polite. I just don't. I would rather not have everyone else to deal with, you know?
- [36:31]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, that's been a theme.
- [36:33]
Abby Wambach
It just feels like a lot.
- [36:35]
Glennon Doyle
Do you know what I think is interesting is the origin of it? And I, you know, I hate to do this to y'all, but I'm going to.
- [36:41]
Amanda Doyle
No, please do.
- [36:42]
Glennon Doyle
Interesting.
- [36:43]
Amanda Doyle
I'm very interested in it.
- [36:44]
Glennon Doyle
Okay. So the first birthday recorded ever is 3000 BC. It was the pharaoh's birthday. And the whole idea is that when pharaohs were crowned gods, they were birthed. So, like, it wasn't the birth of a person, it was the birth of a God.
- [37:03]
Abby Wambach
Wow.
- [37:04]
Glennon Doyle
So kind of like Christmas, right, when you think about it?
- [37:06]
Abby Wambach
That's why we celebrate that.
- [37:08]
Glennon Doyle
But the ancient Greeks, the reason they. They celebrated birthdays outside of just the pharaohs were they believed that every person who was born had either a protective spirit or a demon present at your birth. And so the same spirit every year on the anniversary of your birth. It was kind of this liminal space where it was like the closest that you would get to either that protective spirit or that demon would, like, come and be with you.
- [37:39]
Abby Wambach
Whoa.
- [37:39]
Glennon Doyle
So the whole idea of birthday parties and the candles and all of it was because it was celebrating your birthday day. You were recognizing the closeness of the spirit. And so friends and family would come to try to protect you from the spirit and that they would bring, like, good cheers and wishes and the, the candles and the wishes were because the Greeks believed that smoke helped carry messages to gods. So when you blow out the candles, you're sending your wishes. That's the whole, like, birthday wish. That's the whole, like, we are sending our wishes skyward to the gods and we are calling protection on this person.
- [38:26]
Abby Wambach
Damn.
- [38:26]
Glennon Doyle
Because we know the spirits are near on the birthday.
- [38:31]
Abby Wambach
I think we know that in our bones. And that is why birthdays take us close to the ache.
- [38:39]
Glennon Doyle
Yes, Birthday. That's what I think it is.
- [38:41]
Abby Wambach
Close to whatever it is that the swirly, purple and black sequency swirly Cliff, we're right next to. We're right next to that thing. And the ache is like, no, it's life and death and God and spirit. And we're all going to die and we're all going to be taken from each other. And we're. We just have this one brief moment of life. And on our birthday, we are there with it. And we want people around us to block us from the ache, to keep us in this dimension. And when we're alone, we feel everything because we are right next to the ache, the spirit they thought originally alone. And that is why birthdays are fucking a lot.
- [39:30]
Glennon Doyle
To me, it makes sense. It's like, why people are like, I don't know, it's my birthday and I just keep crying and I don't really know why. And I just, I feel so many feelings, whether it's like the spirit thing or it's the recognition, holy shit, I was born and I'm going to die. All of that is a very mystical, wild kind of transcendence from the every day that we're in that like, makes us look at that for a hot minute. And it's a lot. And the other thing that I think is super interesting about it, so we have all those ancient folks. Then when Christian tradition becomes very prevalent, the Christian tradition said ex nay on the birthday because the whole idea of birth was the recognition of original sin. So, like, we do absolutely do not celebrate birthdays. Very, very bad.
- [40:25]
Abby Wambach
So because the Christians were like, turns out we're rotten, we're bad. We will not celebrate it because we are evil when we're born.
- [40:30]
Glennon Doyle
Well, because we're celebrating divinity, right? We're not celebrating sin. And so when the original sin that comes, that's nothing to be celebrated. You were born into original sin. That's not great. We're not celebrating that. We are celebrating, you know, divinity. We're celebrating Christ's birth because every party needs a pooper.
- [40:49]
Abby Wambach
That's why we invited the Christians. Party poopers. Party poopers.
- [40:55]
Glennon Doyle
But very interestingly, it's only been since like the 1880s that the average American celebrated a birthday. That's really what, like 150 years. It all had to do with time, which is the. This whole other thing that I think is fascinating. When you take the existential ache and then you add on this illusion of chronological time and progress and smush those together, that's when our brains accept explode. Pre industrial revolution, people didn't have clocks, people didn't have watches, people. The whole concept of time and passage of time wasn't even a thing. But then in the 19th century, we started getting pocket watches. And so this was the first thing that made it possible to even constantly know what time it was. And that's exactly when lives started to be run by schedules. You know, like factory schedules and streetcars and all the things that started to, like, dominate. You had to know what time it was to get through the day. That became institutionalized. This whole idea of comparison that you're talking about, that's when we started separating students into grades by age and being like, you're ahead, you're behind, you're ahead, you're behind.
- [42:08]
Abby Wambach
Right?
- [42:09]
Glennon Doyle
That's when doctors started to say, like, these are the age metrics and we're tracking your development and like, you're not okay, and you are okay. And that's exactly when folks started celebrating birthdays. And it seems this whole idea of, like, are you on time or are you late? This is part of our angst around birthdays.
- [42:34]
Abby Wambach
Right.
- [42:34]
Glennon Doyle
I'm 30. I'm not married. I'm 40. Am I gonna be able to have a kid? All the things that are like, time, time, time, and I'm late. That's all. Because we started to get in touch with this idea of time as this thing that we were keeping up with.
- [42:56]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. And like a commodity, are we spending it right or not? It's something that belongs to us, that we make decisions about as opposed to. It's something that we belong to.
- [43:04]
Glennon Doyle
Mm.
- [43:06]
Amanda Doyle
Something to monetize, too.
- [43:07]
Abby Wambach
Birthdays.
- [43:08]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [43:08]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. So I wonder, is there a way to approach our own birthdays with the limited time we have left on this earth in a way that makes them more satisfying, In a way that avoids expectations, comparison, making it a referendum on our life? We had three friends over last night, actually, to celebrate one of their birthdays. And it was just a very simple, lovely, talking on the couch, dinner. And then at the end, we all sat down and I had a little notebook, and we talked about Deb's just kind of like, intentions and hopes and dreams for the next year and together. And we wrote them all down. And it was really beautiful because as her friend, now I know what she is dreaming of for the next year. I know so much of what's in her heart and what she values and wants.
- [44:10]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [44:11]
Abby Wambach
And so now I feel like it's not just about next year finding out if it all came true. It's about knowing what to check in with her about and knowing what's real for her.
- [44:21]
Amanda Doyle
And if she does get one of those wins or one of those desires, she'll be able to come to us, and it will be this, like, beautiful moment, you know?
- [44:29]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. And it's not just, like, a secret wish. I think it's so weird, the birthday wish that we have to keep secret. And then some of us are so superstitious that I'll speak for myself every time. I'm, like, making a secret birthday wish, and my family's all around me. I want to wish for something for myself, but then I'm like, oh, God, I gotta wish everybody stays happy and healthy again. Because if I don't, I'm a bad mom. So then I have to spend that on my wish every year. And I kind of wish squander your.
- [44:53]
Glennon Doyle
Wish on the health and happiness of your family.
- [44:55]
Abby Wambach
Exactly. I just think Caregivers should get two wishes. But what do you think are some ideas to, like, go into our own birthdays without falling into the pitfalls of what makes us sad on our birthdays?
- [45:11]
Amanda Doyle
I think that one of the things that I try to do is to explain the things I really want to do on my birthday and the things I don't want to do.
- [45:19]
Abby Wambach
That's good.
- [45:20]
Amanda Doyle
For instance, we talk about this, like, a month before both of our birthdays. And usually it's like we are foregoing any material item that we will be handed as a gift. And because the real truth is both of us just want to go, just the two of us, somewhere different than here.
- [45:35]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. We always want it to be an experience. And that's another way of avoiding the pitfall of the secret test. I think people use their birthdays as a secret test. Will the other person figure out what I actually want and give it to me the way I want it? And then the secret test. Birthday has never worked for anyone, but.
- [45:54]
Amanda Doyle
We do have those conversations, telling what you want really important, not only in terms of the general idea of a gift, because it's like, hey, is there something you're thinking about that you want? Usually we both say we want some sort of experience, and then it's like, what do you want to do on your birthday? And honestly, this last year, I just said, I want to do what I do every day. I want to wake up, I want to work out. I want to hang out with you. If we do some work, cool. Doesn't matter. I just want to have a calm, quiet night with you. All. That is a, like, the perfect day.
- [46:29]
Abby Wambach
But that's an expectation that we talk about first. Because if you don't know the person, you could think that they want to party or you could think that, then that person's miserable all day.
- [46:39]
Glennon Doyle
So clearly, we did that to Allison once. Yeah. The assumptions make an ass out of you an option. It's like that rote. Like, what would a good friend do?
- [46:49]
Abby Wambach
Yes.
- [46:49]
Glennon Doyle
And then you do that thing without regard to what the actual person would want. And so one year, we gave Alison a surprise birthday party. Oh, my God.
- [47:03]
Abby Wambach
Have you ever met Alison?
- [47:04]
Glennon Doyle
Exactly. I don't know what it was thoughtless. It was relative, apparently. I don't know. It was the stupidest thing one could possibly do. And she was miserable and hated every minute of it. And if the question is, am I known?
- [47:21]
Abby Wambach
Exactly.
- [47:22]
Glennon Doyle
Am I seen and am I loved? She undoubtedly was like, well, that's a no on all three of those because why did you throw me a surprise birthday party? So there isn't just a birthday party. It's like that person's birthday. What would that person want? Some people want to be left alone so they can have a bath. And some people probably want a big thing. I do think there is something to this question of if you are getting the assurance throughout the year that you are known and loved and seen and that you matter, then maybe it does take off the pressure of the birthday.
- [48:05]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [48:05]
Glennon Doyle
And so my feeling about, like, how to make birthdays less miserable is try to make sure that you're getting that more throughout the year, that it isn't like famine, famine, famine, and you're expecting a feast on your birthday. But, like, try to say what you want and need and do things that you want and need more often throughout the year rather than waiting for the inevitable birthday letdown. Because that's too much pressure on a birthday. And it also is never gonna satisfy you. And then that takes the. This huge, like, magical need on a birthday down a notch. And then I think also, just like, be aware that the spirits are close and the angst are with you and that the, the tyranny of time has its spotlight on you during that time. And that's a very tricky time. I mean, we now say happy birthday and expect everyone to be happy. I mean, the ancient Greeks were like, there is a demon coming to get you on this day. And so we have to come around and protect you from the demon. I think maybe it's what the expectation is. Like, this will.
- [49:20]
Abby Wambach
Good point. We say happy birthday. That is aggressive. That is, you must be happy on your birthday. We have tied happy and birthday together inextricably with that one song. I don't know. Now I'm side eyeing Mildred.
- [49:34]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, but a whole.
- [49:34]
Glennon Doyle
Mildred did not write happy birthday. She wrote good morning to all.
- [49:39]
Abby Wambach
Okay.
- [49:39]
Glennon Doyle
That's what you start saying on people's birthday.
- [49:41]
Abby Wambach
Good morning to all or birthday birthday to you.
- [49:48]
Glennon Doyle
Or you say, I'm gonna take a shift to protect you from the demons. That's what you say.
- [49:54]
Abby Wambach
Ooh, that's so interesting to me. It goes back to all of our holiday talks. Like, Christmas, like, is Christmas merry? I don't know. It's just Christmas to you. It's. It's a complicated.
- [50:05]
Amanda Doyle
But isn't the, the hope that like when you wish somebody a happy birthday, isn't that like, hope it's a good happy birthday?
- [50:14]
Abby Wambach
Yes, it could be. Yeah.
- [50:15]
Glennon Doyle
But we're having this conversation because so many people wrote to us and Say, why do I keep crying on my birthday? And we're having this conversation because so many people said, I don't know why birthdays are so depressing and anxiety provoking to me. And because the Greeks thought that it was the demons were coming to get you. So all I'm saying is maybe when we have this idea that your day will be full of celebration, maybe we should switch it to, this day is going to be intense and complicated and you're going to have a lot of feelings.
- [50:47]
Amanda Doyle
Protect yourself to you.
- [50:51]
Glennon Doyle
Protect yourself to you.
- [50:53]
Abby Wambach
That's good.
- [50:54]
Glennon Doyle
Maybe a lot of the other days are for celebrating. And then maybe it's just thinking of, how can I make people know that they are seen and loved and matter throughout the year, and maybe especially on this day where they're going to be asking themselves that question, am I loved?
- [51:14]
Abby Wambach
Am I loved? Am I loved? You know, when we started this podcast, it was all about, like, that idea that the thing that screws us up is the picture in our heads of how things are supposed to be. It's not that your birthday is a lot that's the problem, or that you have big feelings. It's that you have big feelings on your birthday and you have this picture in your head of how a birthday is supposed to be, and the distance between those two is the problem.
- [51:44]
Amanda Doyle
That's good.
- [51:45]
Abby Wambach
So I think what we're doing is what we're always doing on this podcast is just examining the picture in our head of how it's supposed to be so that we can at least let go of the shame that we're experiencing the day differently than the picture that everyone puts in front of us, that it is a lot for all of us. We just didn't know that it was because of this closeness of the spirits, which now we do. Let's hear from Laura.
- [52:14]
D
Hi, my name is Laura. Today is my 27th birthday, and I'm filling it with all of my favorite things. So far we've gotten coffee, breakfast, sandwiches, watched James Fonda movies, and of course, listen to the new weekend Do Hard Things episode. I hate phone calls almost as much as Glennon hates texting, and leaving a voicemail seems so embarrassing, but I told myself this was the year I'm going to do all the things if they make me uncomfortable. So here I am. I want to express gratitude to all three of you. Life is really fucking hard and beautiful and confusing, but you three bring me along with countless others. So much joy and comfort. I relate to each of you in so many ways, and there are truly no words to express how thankful I am to be invited into your conversations every week. This is such a weird age, and I literally have no clue what I'm doing, but I think that's okay. Just thank you for making being alone feel a little less lonely. I'm sending all three of you so much love, and thank you for creating such a safe space to land every week. I love you so much.
- [53:21]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, Laura, come on with that. 27 is a tough birthday. They all are, because you just don't know what the you're doing. Nobody knows.
- [53:31]
Abby Wambach
Laura might know, you guys. She started with I. It's my birthday and I'm filling it with all of my favorite things.
- [53:39]
Amanda Doyle
So good.
- [53:39]
Abby Wambach
She didn't say, I'm waiting for somebody to come fill it with my favorite things. Right?
- [53:44]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [53:44]
Abby Wambach
And then she's doing gratitude. She's making goals for herself. She said she doesn't know what the hell she's doing, but she thinks that's okay. I think Laura knows everything and she understands that being lonely and being alone are two different things.
- [54:05]
Glennon Doyle
Such a weird age, and I literally have no clue what I'm doing. Evergreen, ditto all the ages forevermore.
- [54:13]
Abby Wambach
Exactly.
- [54:14]
Glennon Doyle
We are just going to try to find something we're grateful for and put down our expectations and.
- [54:29]
Abby Wambach
Love ourselves, put.
- [54:31]
Glennon Doyle
Ourselves more in the way of people who show us that we are loved and that we matter more throughout the year. And then on our birthdays, we're gonna light a bunch of candles and protect.
- [54:44]
Abby Wambach
Ourselves, chant and shit. And if nobody's told you today, listen to me. You are loved. You are loved. We will see you next week.
- [55:02]
Glennon Doyle
Between the time we recorded this episode and when it aired, we lost Wendy. Her life was a blessing to everyone she touched and her 47th birthday party celebrated with everyone she loved at the Indigo Girls concert at Wolf Trap. Belting out our anthems of joy and grief was the best birthday party and most sacred celebration of life that I've ever been a part of. I will never again mark my own birthday without remembering that night and Wende's gratitude for life and without remembering how lucky I am to be alive. Because it's only life after all.
- [55:43]
Abby Wambach
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to? We can do hard things. Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode, and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode to do this. Just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen. Listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our Executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.