Why G & Abby Made Out on Stage at Brandi’s GJWW!

Summary

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Podcast Summary: We Can Do Hard Things

Episode: "Why G & Abby Made Out on Stage at Brandi’s GJWW!"

Hosts: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Amanda Doyle (Andy)
Date: February 5, 2026

Episode Overview

In this celebratory and hilarious episode, the hosts Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Andy (Amanda Doyle) provide an inside look at their experience attending Brandi Carlile’s iconic "Girls Just Wanna Weekend" (GJWW) music festival in Mexico. The conversation dives deep into the significance of the event, their on-stage (and on-stage-make-out!) performance, queer joy, and how dancing together became a powerful, healing, and intimate experience for Abby and Glennon.

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What is "Girls Just Wanna Weekend"?

[01:51–05:35]

• Glennon attempts to describe GJWW, likening it to "a lesbian Lollapalooza":
  • “It’s sort of a gathering of thousands of people, some of who are not queer, but the gathering's still queer.” [03:05]
  • Music is the medium, but the real spirit is healing, joy, and being safe together.
• Abby elaborates:
  • Community builders attend, not just musicians—soccer events, dance classes, daytime pool gatherings.
  • No distinction between newcomers or yearly attendees; inclusion is fundamental.
• Atmosphere described as uniquely safe and communal:
  • "For some reason, it feels… it is so safe. I don’t mean safe like you’re not going to get hurt or your stuff taken … I just mean safe as in everybody gets to be exactly who they are." – Glennon [05:08]
  • People even look after each other's belongings when left unattended.

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The Brandi & Catherine Effect

[06:06–07:14]

• Glennon credits Brandi Carlile and her wife, Catherine, for the intentional spirit of the festival:
  • “It is the intentionality, the generosity... and the love that they pour into every single moment of this festival is stunning … it feels extremely spiritual and generous and intentional and heavenly.” [06:55]

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Legendary 80s/90s Night: Full Buy-In & Freak Flags

[07:14–13:34]

• GJWW’s last night is famously themed (80s/90s covers), with everyone encouraged to participate.
• Glennon and Abby recount their journey from hesitant performers to fully committed on-stage dancers:
  • First year: Reluctant, didn’t sing, “just yucking it up” on stage [09:02].
  • “There’s something about this community … that encourages you to allow your freak flag to fly.” – Glennon [09:39]
• Costume Hijinks
  • Glennon tried a Cher-inspired routine; Abby ended up as an oversized, sailor-suited toddler.
  • “You had, like, sex vixen Glennon and a 1950s toddler Abby.” [11:51]
  • Abby: “Well, because my fucking outfit was terrible. Nobody would have bought into that.” [12:04]

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Dancing as Intimacy & Healing

[13:34–22:37]

• This year, their theme: Defiant, joyful, queer sexiness and love.
• Abby’s Christmas gift: Hired a professional choreographer (Dana, thanks also to Kristin Sudeikis), who previously worked with Justin Timberlake.
• Dance rehearsals became “better than therapy”:
  • “Why do you think that it was like that?” – Glennon
  • Abby: “She was just kind of walking us through some warm ups and follower and leader drills … it became very obvious that the normal dynamic …this was really interesting because it was harder for you to follow.” [21:04]
  • The vulnerability of learning something new together deepened their connection and trust.

Notable Quote

"You know they say that people... whoever you want to be closer to, you should throw yourself into new experiences because that brings up a vulnerability that you don’t have to access when you know what you’re doing."
– Glennon [22:09]

Abby’s Perspective

• Glennon excels at memorizing lyrics; Abby does physical movement—each brings their unique strengths (“How lucky that we’re each good at a thing.” – Glennon [27:14])
• The vulnerability and playfulness reinvigorated their intimacy (“It reawakened butterflies in a really cool way.” – Glennon [28:00])

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The Iconic Performance: "Come to My Window"

[27:39–29:31]

• Their performance was the highlight for both, feeling freeing and liberating despite anxiety that practice didn’t fully match “the vision.”
• Festival moments brought community and queerness to the fore:
  • “I really wanted that to be, it felt like I really wanted that to be portrayed through our dance.” – Glennon [27:39]
  • “It was freeing, and it felt like an offering to the people there.” – Glennon [28:00]

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Other GJWW Highlights

[29:31–31:19]

• “Titans of Americana” Night: Sean Colvin, Brandi Clark, Tish, and Brandi Carlile share the stage, crossing generations and genres.
  • “Brandi is such a shepherd of incredible link between the past and the future.” – Glennon [29:31]
• Heartfelt moments:
  • Meg Fowli and Brandi sang “Still the One” on stage, as images of Andrea and Meg played on screens. The crowd was “just a heavenly awe.” [31:08]

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Creative Courage, Joy, and Forming Community

[31:19–37:03]

• The festival is intentionally countercultural—fostering joy, queer sexuality, and deep community as a form of resistance and survival.
  • "The things that are trying to be stamped out is just joy and sexuality and expression and community." – Glennon [31:19]
• Brandi and Cath’s vision is “an advertisement for using the most audacious form of your imagination and then saying, why not?" – Andy [35:28]
• No hierarchy among artists—established icons and new acts share the same stage and spirit.

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Sexiness, Fun, and Play (a.k.a. Making Out On Stage)

[37:17–41:13]

• The dance (and resulting on-stage make-out): A physical metaphor for their queer love and trust.
• Abby confesses lyric phobia:
  • “I had to walk up and sing my line. And… I look down and there's a teleprompter with the lyric. And I was like, I've dialed all the numbers just to listen to your breath.” [38:34]
  • Glennon: “Kingdom of God is like a teleprompter.” [38:34]
• Sista Strings cheered them on backstage: “Whatever happens out there, we are so proud of you for trying.” [38:56]
  • “That is all I ask. I’m going out. Just be proud. I tried.” – Glennon [39:06]

Takeaway for Listeners

• New experiences (like couple’s dance classes!) can reignite intimacy and joy in relationships.
  • “Get a dance class with your partner … it’s just a way of getting all of your issues out of your head and into your body so where you can see them or something.” – Glennon [39:47]
  • “This has really helped us in our intimacy and our connectivity and feeling connected.” – Abby [39:57]

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Notable & Memorable Quotes

• "Girls Just Wanna is sort of a lesbian Lollapalooza." – Glennon Doyle [03:05]
• “There’s something about this community… that encourages you to allow your freak flag to fly.” – Glennon [09:39]
• "How lucky that we're each good at a thing." – Glennon [27:14]
• “You had, like, sex vixen Glennon and, like, a 1950s toddler Abby.” – Supporting Speaker [11:51]
• "Kingdom of God is like a teleprompter." – Glennon [38:34]
• “Get a dance class with your partner.” – Abby [39:47]

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Key Timestamps

• [01:51] — What is GJWW? Overview of the event’s purpose and spirit.
• [03:05] — "Lesbian Lollapalooza": the music festival as sacred community.
• [07:14] — 80s/90s Night and gradual embrace of on-stage participation.
• [13:34] — Why performing and dancing together became so important to Abby & Glennon.
• [21:04] — Dance rehearsals, leadership, and following in relationships.
• [27:39] — Theme of defiant, joyful, queer love in their dance performance.
• [29:31] — “Titans of Americana” night and cross-generational artistry.
• [38:34] — Abby’s lyric phobia and the “miracle” of the teleprompter.
• [39:47] — Encouragement to inject joy, novelty, and fun into relationships.

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Episode Takeaways

• Showing up in new, vulnerable ways together—like learning a couple’s dance—can be transformative and healing.
• Intentional queer joy and community are revolutionary acts, especially in a world seeking to suppress them.
• The spirit of “Girls Just Wanna” is deep inclusion, radical generosity, and the audacity to create your own heaven on earth.
• Sometimes, we do hard things—and sometimes, we just dance and make out on stage.

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For more information and to join the Pod Squad community, check their socials: https://linktr.ee/wecandohardthingsshow

Transcript

[Glennon Doyle]

Foreign.

[Andy]

Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Today we are celebrating the international holiday. You know, you got your Christmas, you got your Hanukkah, you got your Ramadan, you got your overarching holiday, which is. Girls Just Want a weekend in Mexico with Brandi Carlisle. Okay. Thank you to Brandi for bringing this sensation to the planet and for all those who celebrate. You know that it was a few weeks ago now, and I thought that.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

We could all learn what happened. Those of us who were back home.

[Andy]

Shivering and being sad in our hearts that we were not there together. We can find out from Glen and Abby how Girls Just Wanna Wanted. Girls Just Wanna.

[Glennon Doyle]

How did you want?

[Andy]

What do Girls Just Wanna? And there was a performance by two of the hosts, Glennon and Abby. There was singing, There were gyrations.

[Glennon Doyle]

There were.

[Andy]

There were costuming.

[Abby]

There were lifts.

[Andy]

There were lifts. Nobody puts Baby in a corner. There was a lot. So I don't know anything about it yet other than some rather scandalous, scandalous images I found on the Internet.

[Supporting Speaker]

Ooh, scandalous.

[Andy]

We're gonna find out what girls do when they wanna. Glennon and Abby, how was your time celebrating?

[Glennon Doyle]

Well, first, we should just describe what it is, which is hard to do. Do you want to try?

[Abby]

What Girls Just Wanna is.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Well, I mean, the pod squad knows we.

[Glennon Doyle]

I know, but there might be new people.

[Abby]

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying there are a lot of people that came up to me when we were there and they said, I listened to the podcast last year and I just thought, I gotta get. Get my ass here.

[Glennon Doyle]

Oh, yes.

[Andy]

You'll have to go back and listen to. I think it was last year or the year before. Was it a couple years ago we did a whole Girls Just Wanna podcast, a debriefing. I feel like this is like Bravo. Where they. You know, I've never seen any after hours the show or the after show, but I feel like we now have this series going where it's like, for those who watch the show, you're gonna watch. I'm Andy.

[Glennon Doyle]

Okay.

[Andy]

And we're going to debrief on what happened there. Hopefully there'll be some yelling and gowns and then there. So we did that last year and then actually recorded a podcast last year actually in Mexico. So there's two.

[Glennon Doyle]

So let me just try. I'll try to describe it. It's like, there's a lot of ways to describe it. I feel like this is going to have to be like a sermon on the mount. Like, I can't tell you.

[Supporting Speaker]

I Can't describe it directly, but the kingdom of God is like a mustard seed.

[Glennon Doyle]

And girls just wanna is sort of a lesbian lollapalooza. It's sort of a gathering of thousands of people, some of who are not queer, but the gathering's still queer. Brandy started it as like a music festival, but like everything that Brandi and Catherine do, music is just like the medium through which to bring people together and heal and dance and be safe together. It's a music festival where Brandi gathers all kinds of incredible legacy. Brilliant artists from who we've known for decades, and then brand new artists and people like us who are not artists.

[Supporting Speaker]

And non artists and people who neither.

[Glennon Doyle]

In the past nor in the future.

[Supporting Speaker]

Will be artists and yet are still invited.

[Glennon Doyle]

And.

[Abby]

But that, I think, really describes it because it's not just artists that show up. It's. It's people who are doing really interesting community work. And, you know, there's like a soccer event that I run and people show up to. They have dance classes, they have all these sorts of activities that you can do throughout the day, and then at night, nighttime, it becomes basically like a music festival. It's held at a hotel where everybody is literally staying. And you can walk to the venues, walk to the activities. You can gather at the pools during the day. And there's poolside stages where the whole.

[Andy]

Pool is full, literally full of people in inner tubes or standing.

[Glennon Doyle]

Just.

[Andy]

That is the crowd for the stage. And the stage is there and everyone's just filling the pool. Is this the sixth year of it or the seventh year?

[Abby]

That was the sixth.

[Andy]

Yeah, that was the sixth. Okay, so a lot of people have.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Been every year, but you can come in new.

[Andy]

It's not like I needed to have been there before.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah. I mean, Brandy jokes with me that it's turned me into an extrovert, which is not true, but it turns me into an extrovert for like 20 minutes a year, which.

[Abby]

For four minutes.

[Supporting Speaker]

20 minutes a year.

For four minutes.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, you're right.

[Abby]

Cause the song is about four minutes long.

[Supporting Speaker]

But those are magical minutes in my life.

[Glennon Doyle]

And I giggle about that. But it's true. And I think the reason why. Why maybe people feel extroverted there, where they don't anywhere else, is because it is a. For some reason, it feels. It is so safe. I don't mean safe like you're not going to get hurt or your stuff taken, which those things are not going to happen. I just mean safe as in everybody gets to be exactly who they are.

[Abby]

And I will say it is very odd to know that when you put your wallet on the ground anywhere while you are on property there and you walk away because you need to go get a water or you have to go potty or whatever, your stuff is still there when you come back. And in fact, not only is your stuff still there, there are people who have been actively watching your stuff for you.

[Glennon Doyle]

That happens to me all the time there.

[Abby]

You didn't know it, but they come over and they said, I was watching your stuff.

[Glennon Doyle]

Or they'll go, glennon, it's right there. And they won't even explain that it's right there. So much Brandy facilitates all of this, because I will just say Brandi and Katherine are two of our dearest friends in the entire world. I have learned over time that they don't vibe with being complimented. It's so interesting. It's like they don't have time for it. It's. They're just like, next. Next community. Community. They're not like. But I cannot ever talk about them without saying that the way that they curate and the spirit with which they build their community is why it's the way it is. It is the intentionality, the generosity with which they honor people who have come before them and which they guide and shepherd young artists. And the love that they pour into every single moment of this festival is stunning. It feels. I know that Brandy is very Jesusy and very much when I'm there, I feel that vibe. I feel this is like, oh, this is her way of bringing her version of heaven to earth. That is what it feels like. It feels extremely spiritual and generous and intentional and heavenly.

[Andy]

Is that why they do the 80s night?

[Glennon Doyle]

Okay. So, as always, things that are deep and spiritual are often absurd.

[Supporting Speaker]

Well, heaven is a place on earth.

Okay.

[Glennon Doyle]

Ooh, Heaven is a place on earth. Which is Belinda Carlisle. Coincidence.

[Abby]

Not maybe. Not related. Not related. Not related.

[Glennon Doyle]

So here's what happens.

[Supporting Speaker]

I've studied this of myself.

Of myself.

[Glennon Doyle]

First, we started coming because Brandy's like, oh, come. And, you know, it's all Jesusy. Oh, just come and see. Just taste and just come in the door. We started go the first couple years, and I thought, I will go. I will stand in my corner. I will watch, I will observe. I will keep my distance.

[Supporting Speaker]

But much like the rhythm girls just want to.

[Glennon Doyle]

It's gonna get you.

[Abby]

That's exactly what's gonna happen.

[Supporting Speaker]

So slowly, I started surrendering more and more.

[Glennon Doyle]

Until one year.

[Abby]

Well, the first year, Brandi and Cath asked us to go and Sing a song with them on stage closer to fine for 80s night. And we said yes. But of course, Glen and I made a pact. Since we don't have good voices and both Brandy and Cath have great V, we both said we're not gonna sing.

[Glennon Doyle]

No.

[Abby]

And even during that performance on stage. So just as a backdrop, the last night of the festival, they do either 80s night or 90s night. Night of the living 90s or ladies of the 80s. Every artist comes on stage and sings a cover of a song of that decade or whatever. And so that's how it started. We went on stage, and during the song that we were supposed to be on stage for, Glenn and I were just, like, walking around like, yay. Hi.

[Andy]

She's sucking it up.

[Supporting Speaker]

Just yucking it up, yucking it up.

[Glennon Doyle]

And she covers her microphone, turns to me, and goes, sing. Yeah.

[Supporting Speaker]

And I said, off. No, I'm not gonna sing. Why would I do that? I wouldn't want to ruin your perfectly lovely concert with my singing voice.

[Abby]

Exactly.

[Glennon Doyle]

Are we trying to get these people to heal?

[Supporting Speaker]

Haven't they been through enough? So anyway, we said no.

[Abby]

Then the rhythm was gonna get Glennon, and it got her.

[Supporting Speaker]

She saw jumbotron, and that was the end of that. She said, jumbotron, why hath there forsaken me?

[Abby]

Year two shows up Year two pre Year two.

[Glennon Doyle]

What I'm trying to say is that I think there's something about this community, or maybe any community in which you feel so safe and beloved, that encourages.

[Supporting Speaker]

You to allow your freak flag to.

Fly, urge you just to take off your clothes and start singing.

[Glennon Doyle]

I, a few months before girl just won a last year, just happened to.

[Supporting Speaker]

Somehow order a Cher outfit.

[Glennon Doyle]

And I sent Brandy a video of me performing an audition.

[Supporting Speaker]

You mean an audition.

[Glennon Doyle]

But I made it so that it could be dismissed as a joke, so that if she just laughed, I could say, ahaha, Yang Jo.

[Supporting Speaker]

It's funny.

[Glennon Doyle]

Just joking.

[Supporting Speaker]

But what I really wanted her to do is see my audition video that.

[Glennon Doyle]

I sent and say, well, obviously you're performing that a girl just want. And, you know, it was a G string and, like, fishnet stockings and a.

[Abby]

Huge wig, and I still am.

[Supporting Speaker]

You're still upset about it?

[Abby]

I'm not upset. I'm still like, wow, I can't believe that you're walking out of the house wearing this.

[Glennon Doyle]

The good news is that Brandi texted back immediately and said, obviously you're performing this at Girls Just want to. And I said, oh, my God. I had not even considered that.

[Supporting Speaker]

Oh, I could Never. I have not plotted and coordinated this behind the scenes for months. Oh, my stars.

What had happened was I went out.

[Glennon Doyle]

On stage and I ordered Abby a sailor costume. Because if you have not seen the video of. If I could turn back time with Cher on the aircraft carrier with all the sailors, I don't know what you've been doing with your life, but you must do that today. So I ordered Abby a sailor costume. It said that I ordered it six sizes too small, so no, big. Too big. Why did you do that? I don't know.

[Andy]

I don't know.

[Glennon Doyle]

Know. So she ended up looking more like kind of like a Pillsbury Doughboy than a.

[Abby]

That's exactly right. That's exactly what I look like.

[Supporting Speaker]

And since you know how you look back on, like, those really fancy rich people from the 1940s that dress their little boys in, like, those little. Little white outfits with the smock at the top and the white long socks with the white shoes. That's what she looked like.

[Abby]

That's right.

[Supporting Speaker]

So you had, like, sex vixen of Glennon and, like, a 1950s toddler of Abby.

[Glennon Doyle]

That's right. And so we kind of performed that. But Abby had not really bought into the whole idea beforehand.

[Abby]

Well, because my fucking outfit was terrible. Nobody would have bought into that.

[Supporting Speaker]

Okay, so the point is that happened.

[Glennon Doyle]

And then this year, Abby decided she really wanted to go all in with me on this whole performance. Now, can we try to explain why this is important, this performance that we do each year? I don't know how to explain it other than, first of all, I like the idea that when you're in a culture, you buy into the culture. When I'm there, I'm like, oh, I get what's happening here, and I am going to participate fully. I see what you are doing, and I want to meet you there.

[Abby]

Well, the thing that I've realized in the three years that we've gone number one, our family looks forward to this event every year. But this last night, where the artists get on stage, some who sing and some who do not, they are modeling behavior, I think, to the crowd around the revolution in dancing, the revolution in not worrying about how it's going to look, even if it's, like, foolish seeming to get on the dance floor, to get on the stage and have fun. The thing that I cannot believe about this last couple of months since we've been preparing for it, is how much fun and how much play has gone into the preparation of it.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes, let's talk about the preparation of it. So we decided that this year our vibe needed to be defiant, joyful, queer sexiness and love. Okay. That is the vibe we wanted for our dance. So dance for our dance. And so we routine. One day I was out for my walk and Come to my window just started spinning in my head. And I thought, oh, my God, this song would be so good as a duet. I came home. Do you remember when I came home?

[Abby]

Oh, my God.

[Glennon Doyle]

And I was like, I know what we're doing for girlsjswana. And I know.

[Supporting Speaker]

I've just been listening to Ram Dass, and I know what we're doing.

Ram Dass and Melissa Etheridge. Only two people that I take counsel from.

[Glennon Doyle]

Okay. So I came home, was like, I know what we're doing. We got in a little argument because I felt like you weren't as excited about. I was at the time. But then you reminded me that you had just. You're just trying to watch football and you weren't in the same place.

[Abby]

Oh, no, I wasn't trying to watch football. I was actually doing work. So sitting at my computer while you came in and. Yeah, so, okay, so you said same, same.

[Glennon Doyle]

Right.

[Supporting Speaker]

She was doing research for welcome to the party, which might look to you suspiciously like watching football.

[Andy]

Okay.

[Supporting Speaker]

So anyway, I felt like it's possible that Abby maybe wasn't taking this dance as seriously as I wanted us to be taking it.

[Glennon Doyle]

That wasn't necessarily true, but that's how I felt. Anyway, for Christmas, I open up my big gift, and it is a letter that says that Abby has coordinated with.

[Supporting Speaker]

Kath and found a choreographer in la.

[Glennon Doyle]

Abby and I are going to go meet with a few times, and she is going to teach us to choreograph.

[Supporting Speaker]

Now, anyone who was at GirlsJust Wanted is not going to believe this.

[Glennon Doyle]

We actually.

[Supporting Speaker]

It was intentional. Everything you saw was intentional and had professional guidance behind it. Yeah, we might want to spend hours.

[Abby]

We might want to edit this part out because people there are going to be like, really?

[Supporting Speaker]

No, for real. They'll be stunned. We spent hours. This person has been a choreographer for Justin Timberlake.

[Glennon Doyle]

Okay.

[Supporting Speaker]

And we walk in. Thank you, Dana. She's amazing. Her name is Dana.

[Glennon Doyle]

So Abby and I.

[Abby]

And also Kristin Sudeikis, who helped me connect us. Dana.

[Glennon Doyle]

So great. So Abby and I go drive an hour to go to this beautiful little studio in la. And we stand. It's like one of those rooms like.

[Supporting Speaker]

You see on, like, Dancing with the Stars.

[Glennon Doyle]

It's like a huge room with, like, mirrors.

[Andy]

With mirrors and a bar on it and everything I don't know if there was a bar.

[Glennon Doyle]

Okay. There were tall ceilings, music, all this stuff. We had a call first. I said I want it to be defiant.

[Supporting Speaker]

I want it to be very simple. I don't want you to say things to me like, and 1, 2, 3, 4.

Just start at 1 and let's go.

If you say, 1, 2, 3, 4, I'm going to sit down. I can't do that. Because also, what you must know. And you know this, sister, there's reasons.

[Glennon Doyle]

That this experience is healing for me.

[Supporting Speaker]

Part of my villain orig story, okay, is that I tried out for cheerleading.

Oh, God, here we go. Buckle up, buttercups.

I tried out for cheerleading. I don't know if it was four or five times. All I know is way too many.

Times it was 4 too many is what it was.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Supporting Speaker]

And I wanted to be a cheerleader so bad. I just felt like I am not relevant. But if I get one of those uniforms. So if I just get something that says proof that I belong here, my life will change.

[Abby]

Okay?

[Supporting Speaker]

So I was convinced that all I needed to do was make the cheerleading squad to solve my life. And I kept trying.

[Glennon Doyle]

And they would do these dances, and.

[Supporting Speaker]

They would teach the dance. And they would say things like, 1.

2, 3, 4, trigger, warning. Trigger, warning. I'm gonna say, 1, 2, 3, four.

Now, I understand that, like, for someone who's severely dissociated and disembodied, there's a reason why this was so hard for me and is so hard for me.

[Andy]

But the funniest part is that you would go to the prac. I mean, not funny.

[Supporting Speaker]

The tragic part is that you would go to the tryouts all week, learn the dance. You'd practice it at home. You'd have it down. I wouldn't say you were good, but you knew the dance, right? And then you would go to tryouts, and they'd say, okay, every 1, 2, 3, 4, everyone do the dance. And you would there, like Stonewall Jackson, just stand and not move.

Just stare at them. And then I don't know if you remember, Sissy, but one time, like, the third time, the third tryout, and they're all six months apart. This is going on forever. Okay, Remember the lady who was running.

[Glennon Doyle]

It said, oh, it was like four.

[Supporting Speaker]

Of us trying out. Now, I was just standing still. And then she said, oh, honey, because, you know, it's like your English teacher or whatever doing that, doing the auditions. And anyway, she said, do you want to try again? Do it yourself. And I said, okay.

[Glennon Doyle]

And so the other people sat down.

[Supporting Speaker]

She played the music again. And I just stood there and started her by myself.

And so like, do you not see me trying out? I'm trying so hard right now.

The trying. I'm always trying so hard.

[Abby]

You didn't during those tryouts.

[Supporting Speaker]

Like, one time, Abby and I recently were at one of Emma's. We were at her college that she's going, going to go to. And the soccer people were soccering. This player was running up and down.

[Glennon Doyle]

The field wearing this little machine thing.

[Supporting Speaker]

And I said, abby, what is that?

[Glennon Doyle]

And she said, it's a monitor that shows how hard her, her heart is beating. And I said, why does she have to wear that? And she said, because then they can see how basically how hard she's trying, how hard she's working.

[Supporting Speaker]

And I thought, if I could just have one of those. I just want to wear one of.

Those all the time when I'm just sitting at my desk. I'm like, oh, my God. The world only knew how hard I was trying.

I know I'm not moving, but I'm trying so hard. Okay. So that's how I felt. The point is you all. My father, who was always telling us, we can do whatever we want, girls can do anything. You can do anything. Do the thing. After the, either the fourth or fifth.

[Glennon Doyle]

Time when he drove me home, he.

[Supporting Speaker]

Said something like, glennon, I know I've told you that you can do anything, but I, I need to amend it.

I have led you astray.

You can't do this. This must stop.

[Glennon Doyle]

Please.

[Supporting Speaker]

Like, it was like, you are embarrassing the family. I cannot pick you up here anymore. The point is, this is my past.

[Glennon Doyle]

So the second we get into this room with Dana, she doesn't say, 1, 2, 3, 4, but she does start.

[Supporting Speaker]

Doing things very quickly.

[Glennon Doyle]

It feels scary to me. I feel panicky. I feel like I'm not going to be able to do it. There's lots of mirrors, so everyone can.

[Supporting Speaker]

See if you're not doing it right.

[Glennon Doyle]

And something about the forced vulnerability of it. I mean, we only had three sessions. Two. Okay. It felt like better than therapy for some reason.

[Abby]

Like couples therapy or individual therapy.

[Glennon Doyle]

Couples therapy.

[Abby]

Yeah. It's true.

[Glennon Doyle]

Why do you think that it was like that?

[Abby]

Well, in fact, early in the first session, she was just kind of walking us through some warm ups and follower and leader drills.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Which is also very sports specific too. But like in dancing, like you, one person from leads and the other person follows. And throughout the first couple of, I would say like the first hour of the first session, it was very interesting how. And she even stopped us and she said a lot of what might come up for you is actually happening inside of your relationship. And it's so true. One person often really prefers to lead, and one person often really prefers to follow. But in the physical realm of dance, in our marriage, it became very obvious that the normal dynamic that you're a leader in our family, I also am too, in moments. But I would say that this was really interesting because it was harder for you to follow.

[Glennon Doyle]

It was very hard.

[Abby]

Even in some of the drills, she was very tense. Like she wants to turn herself, but it fucks it all up. Because the pressure that you put on your hands is very important. And the person who is leading is actually forcing the person into the around.

[Glennon Doyle]

Somebody should make a show out of it.

[Abby]

It's really interesting.

[Glennon Doyle]

Like every moment of couples dancing, like, sends you into a freaking rabbit hole of your entire relationship. You know, they say that people, friends or sisters or couple, whoever you want to be closer to, you should throw yourself into new experiences because that brings up a vulnerability that you don't have to access when you know what you're doing. I felt so uncool and like unsteady and ungood.

[Supporting Speaker]

Felt ungood, like lost a lot of the time.

[Glennon Doyle]

And Abby is much more. Has much more agency in her body, so.

[Abby]

But it was flip flop for the lyrics. Cause I couldn't remember the lyrics to Save My Life. I couldn't do both things like lyrics and body stuff.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Oh, interesting.

[Abby]

It was very interesting. And so we both had strengths, I know in this art that we were exploring, which is like, really cool. All of my friends running businesses large and small are enticed by AI, but they're also asking, okay, how do we actually make it work for us? That's why I love that with NetSuite, you can actually put AI to work. Work today, not someday. NetSuite is the number one AI Cloud ERP trusted by over 43,000 businesses. It's one unified system that brings your financial, inventory, commerce, HR and CRM into a single source of truth. And that connected data is what makes your AI smarter. So it doesn't just guess. It knows. So you can finally ask the questions you've always wanted to ask, like who your key customers really are, how much cash you actually have on hand, or what your inventory trends look like if your revenues are at least in the seven figures. Get our free business guide Demystifying AI at netsuite.com HardThings the guide is free to you at netsuite.com Hardthings netsuite.com HardThings.

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[Glennon Doyle]

You know, in your relationship things can seem easy to you that are you think they're basic and you're like why can't you do that?

[Andy]

Yeah, it's like frustrating.

[Glennon Doyle]

It's frustrating. And so for that stuff to be crystallized in actual things, oh your body stuff is so, so natural for you. And so instead of her being mad at me for it not being easy for Me, she just was more gentle and patient and loving, which then gave me an opportunity to be like, why can't you remember these lyrics? Like, why is this so hard for you? Oh, okay. So then allowed me to be patient and loving. And, like, we each were like, oh, we're each good at a thing. How lucky that we're each good at a thing. I don't know if I'm explaining this right, but.

[Abby]

No, you are.

[Andy]

It's very interesting.

[Glennon Doyle]

And plus, it was sexy.

[Supporting Speaker]

Our intention for the dance was that it would be sexy.

We said to the lady, hey, lady.

[Andy]

We hired, make it sexy.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, we felt like that was really important right now, actually, you know, that's just something that they're attempting to control and scare us out of our sexuality and our desire and our love. And it felt like I really wanted that to be.

[Abby]

And it was because when we practice in front of our children prior to leaving to go to Mexico, we would get to the sexy parts, and they would be like.

[Glennon Doyle]

One of the funniest moments. Abby kept going, how do you think you got here? And one of the girls goes, well, through heterosexual sex.

[Abby]

Not this way.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, it reawakened butterflies in a really cool way. So we did end up performing Come to My Window. And I think it went pretty well. Right. And we didn't exactly nail in my head. It looked some ways and then I saw some of the pictures and I was like, oh, that's how it looked like, I. As usual, the vision did not exactly match the reality, which is. Is all art. But it felt freeing and it felt like an offering to the people there who we love so much. And I already can't wait till next year. It's just really special. Brandi also, besides that night, she did a night called the Titans of Americana. And like, on stage was Sean Colvin, my God. Who Brandi used to tour with when she was young. And Brandi hero worships her and actually told us later that she did the entire concert to one person. It was Sean Colvin, because she just so spent her life wanting to make her proud. And then Brandi Clark was up there, who's just such a freaking soulful songwriter and beautiful person. And then Brandi Carlisle and then Tish was on the other side, and it was just this generational unbelievable. You know, Brandy is such a shepherd of incredible link between the past and the future to shepherd both ways and together. And it was just like a crystallized moment of that. We did a screening of Come See Me in the Good Light. Meg Fowli was with us the whole weekend, which may have been the most magical part of the whole thing.

[Andy]

Did she do her song?

[Glennon Doyle]

If you've seen Come See Me in the Good Light, being part of that film, which really just meant being part of this little family of friends who got together to make it, was one of the most creatively fulfilling and relationally fulfilling experiences of our lives. Because, you know, Brandy and Cath became involved with the film, and they helped executive produce and they helped with the song, the original song with Sara Bareilles and that Andrea wrote with them. Brandi and Cath just really made Meg really the center of this weekend in many ways. If you've seen the film, you know that in the beginning, there's this incredible scene where Meg and Andrea are, for lack of a better word, they're singing still the One to each other. Still the One by Shania Twain is the song that was playing when Meg proposed to Andrea. It's an incredibly important song to them and an incredibly important part of the film. And at that 90s night, Meg and Brandi sang still the One on stage with images of Andrea and Meg on the screens around them. For everyone listening, I hope that there will be a moment where you can see Brandi and Meg singing this song because.

[Abby]

And Megan Folly has a good voice.

[Glennon Doyle]

She does. She has a beautiful voice.

[Abby]

She carried that song so well.

[Glennon Doyle]

And you just were watching Brandi hold Meg with her eyes. I mean, that's what Brandi does. She just, like, looks, and she's just like, I've got you no matter who you are. And she does. And she just doesn't drop you. It's very unbelievable. The entire place was just odd. It was just a heavenly odd.

[Abby]

A W, E, not O, D, D. No.

[Glennon Doyle]

Sounded like the crowd's odd, too. That's why we like them.

[Abby]

It sounded like you could. Yeah, you could have heard odd, but it's odd.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, it's just really special and felt very. Not separate from everything that's going on in the world. Very crucial to it somehow. Just the gathering and the community and the music, you know, those are the things that are trying to be stamped out is just joy and sexuality and expression and community. Anyway, I just hope that more people get to come, and I hope that more people create spaces like that for themselves and their communities.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Glennon Doyle]

N.

[Andy]

It's such an audacious active imagination. It's such a wild thing to just even think of. It is an advertisement for using the most audacious form of your imagination and then saying, why not? I mean, it's really, really beautiful.

[Abby]

And I think that that might be one of the very most specific reasons why Brandi and Catholic are like, when you. We thank them, like, thank you for having us. It almost feels like it's harder for them to receive it because they're like, this is just what I dreamed up. Like, this is just a dream. You know what I mean? And it's like so cool. I just think Brandy has this abundance of space to dream up a more beautiful world. And they both spend their lives trying to honestly bring heaven to earth in many ways. And I just think it's so beautiful.

[Glennon Doyle]

And there's no hierarchy. I think that's such an interesting thing. Like they, you know, it's Sam Smith and the new 17 year old who's trying to break out. There's no different treatment of anyone. It's hard to explain, but it feels special. And also, I always just want to make sure that everyone's talking about Catherine just as much as Brandy because Katherine just her spirit and her work and her attention to detail and her wide open heart.

[Andy]

Leadership.

[Glennon Doyle]

Leadership. Yeah. She's such a leader. Yeah. So that's it. That.

[Abby]

That's.

[Glennon Doyle]

Girls just wanna. And maybe when we. When we post this or. Or do whatever we do with these things, we'll list all the. Lots of the artists that were there, the new ones. Because. Yeah, it's a beautiful place to.

[Abby]

I wanna get a full video of our dance.

[Glennon Doyle]

I know. I wonder if anyone has that. I don't think they do.

[Abby]

You guys, can I tell you a secret about what happened to me? So. Because I have like, what's the word? Lyrics. Fear Lyrics.

[Glennon Doyle]

Lyric.

[Abby]

Phobia. I was like practicing for the. For weeks, you guys. Like, I was like, I know that this sounds crazy because I do know the song, but truly I was like. I had specific lines that I had that I was singing. And mine was the very first. Like, right now I couldn't.

[Supporting Speaker]

You didn't want to pull a Glenn and cheerleader?

[Abby]

Yeah, exactly. Right now I couldn't tell you what my line is because I would dial.

[Glennon Doyle]

The numbers just to listen.

[Abby]

I would dial the numbers just to listen to your breath. And we had to start on separate sides of the stage. And I had to walk up and sing my line. And so I couldn't ask Lennon, what's my. What's my first line? I was like, oh, fuck. And there's like a prelude of music, like an inter. An intro of music that. And so then I stepped on the stage and I was like, oh my God, I have forgotten the very first line of the song. This is going to be terrible. And I like look down and there's a teleprompter with the lyric. And I was like, I've dialed all the numbers just to listen to your breath.

[Glennon Doyle]

Kingdom of God is like a teleprompter.

[Abby]

For me.

[Glennon Doyle]

Right before I went out, you know, Sista strings is like, if you guys don't know Sista Strings, please, please look up. These women, they were together, came up to me and said. Right before I went out and said, whatever happens out there, we are so proud of you for trying.

[Supporting Speaker]

And I thought, to those who know me, that is all I ask. I'm going out. Just be proud. I tried.

[Abby]

They saw it. Sound check what was happening. So they were like, oh, I don't know if they're going to pull this. Oh, I actually went over.

[Supporting Speaker]

They're so good looking.

[Abby]

I went over the. To them and I said, I don't know if you guys are supposed to be singing on this, but we, we could use your help.

[Supporting Speaker]

Please sing.

[Abby]

And they were like, I don't think we are. And I said, okay, great, please do. Then that's fine. Just do whatever year we're gonna do. It's fine. And I think they probably helped us out.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I don't know.

[Abby]

I have to see the video. It was so fun. And this is also to encourage anybody out there who is feeling like they could inject a little bit of fun and play into their marriage. Get a dance class with your partner.

[Glennon Doyle]

Or like YouTube video or something. I mean, truly, it's like it's just a way of getting all of your issues out of your head and into your body so where you can see them or something.

[Abby]

It's so fun though, to like go do something completely novel. And maybe it's not dance. Maybe it's taking an art class. Maybe it's. I don't know. But like, this has really helped us in, in like our intimacy and our connectivity and feeling connected. Because like, we both took time out of our days to go do this thing. And there was like touching and there was kissing and like things that like actually help connect you. And there was a lifts and there was you had to trust me that I wasn't going to drop you on your head because there was a kind of a tricky lift at the end.

[Glennon Doyle]

I know.

[Supporting Speaker]

We were driving home one of the.

[Glennon Doyle]

Nights, very late, later than we're usually out.

[Abby]

9:45.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Supporting Speaker]

We were in the car.

[Glennon Doyle]

That was so crazy.

[Supporting Speaker]

That was crazy.

That's how they do it in the biz.

[Abby]

Yeah. That was cheap studio time.

[Supporting Speaker]

Double digit time commitment.

[Abby]

The cheapest time for a studio. So.

[Supporting Speaker]

And I. I remember looking at you.

[Glennon Doyle]

And being like, you looked really sexy.

[Supporting Speaker]

And you were like, so did you. And then we didn't talk for an hour. We're, like, embarrassed.

You're like, oh, that was too much.

[Abby]

Oh.

[Supporting Speaker]

Oh, God. All right, anyway, thank you. Thank you for listening and we love you. And is there anything else we can say before we let these poor people go?

[Glennon Doyle]

I think you've done it. Okay. All right. Go dance. We love you. Bye. We Can Do Hard Things is an independent production podcast brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for humans who want to stay human. And you can follow us. We Can Do Hard Things on Instagram and at We Can Do Hard things show on TikTok.