Podcast Summary: We Can Do Hard Things Episode: Why Protest Works—The 3.5% Rule with Erica Chenoweth
Release Date: July 8, 2025
Hosts: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Amanda Doyle
Guest: Erica Chenoweth, Professor at Harvard University

Introduction

In this insightful episode of We Can Do Hard Things, hosts Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle welcome Erica Chenoweth, a renowned Harvard professor specializing in political violence and its alternatives. The conversation delves deep into the current state of American democracy, the rise of authoritarianism, and the potent effectiveness of nonviolent protest in reclaiming and strengthening democratic institutions.

Understanding the Current Political Landscape

Amanda Doyle opens the discussion by questioning the state of American democracy:

“Are we still even a democracy? Are we officially in authoritarianism?”
[03:03]

Erica Chenoweth responds by defining democracy not as a perfect system but as a process that ensures political views are expressed and power is shared:

“Democracy is about the process by which people express political views and engage in political conflict in a way that results in compromise, power sharing, respect for the rights and the well being of our neighbors.”
[05:59]

She highlights the indicators of a backsliding democracy, such as the erosion of the rule of law, separation of powers, and respect for civil liberties. Chenoweth points out that when these institutions fail to check executive power effectively, a nation teeters on the brink of authoritarianism.

Defining and Identifying Authoritarianism

Chenoweth elaborates on the concept of "competitive authoritarianism," where elections occur but lack fairness due to the suppression of opposition:

“Elections happen, but there's no meaningful opposition. The opposition is too weak, too cowed, or too bullied to participate fairly.”
[09:59]

She draws parallels between the current U.S. political climate and other contemporary authoritarian regimes, using Hungary as a prime example. Hungary's centralization of power, suppression of dissent, and manipulation of the judiciary mirror troubling trends in the United States.

The Power of Nonviolent Resistance

Central to the episode is Chenoweth's groundbreaking research on nonviolent resistance. She explains the 3.5% Rule, which posits that only 3.5% of the population needs to engage in sustained nonviolent protest for significant political change to occur:

“Nonviolent resistance works way more often than its detractors want people to believe that it does.”
[16:46]

Key components that make nonviolent movements successful include:

1. Inclusive Participation: Accessible methods like protests, strikes, and boycotts allow diverse groups to engage without requiring total life overhauls.
2. Defections: Shifts in loyalty among institutions and individuals that reduce support for authoritarian practices.
3. Economic Noncooperation: Imposing material costs on opponents through actions like consumer boycotts.
4. Organizational Discipline: Maintaining resilience and strategic discipline to respond effectively to repression.

Chenoweth emphasizes that nonviolent movements can achieve their goals more effectively than violent revolutions, often leading to lasting democratic outcomes.

Historical Case Studies

Serbia’s Bulldozer Revolution (2000): Chenoweth recounts how hundreds of thousands demanded Slobodan Milosevic's resignation through mass protests. The police's non-response to orders to use lethal force demonstrated public support for the movement, leading to Milosevic’s eventual resignation.

“Milosevic resigned to spend more time with his grandson, as he said.”
[20:40]

U.S. Civil Rights Movement: Highlighting strategic nonviolent resistance, she describes how disciplined responses to violence—such as the silent march following the bombing of Reverend James Lawson’s house—forced political leaders to confront the injustices and initiate desegregation.

“The silent march is such a brilliant tactic because ... it's symbolically so powerful to see a movement in such pain exercising such powerful discipline and moral kind of, I don't know, it's morally very powerful.”
[29:17]

Strategies for Modern-Day Activism

Chenoweth offers actionable strategies for contemporary movements aiming to reclaim democracy:

1. Identifying Pressure Points: Focus on economic noncooperation, such as consumer boycotts, to influence corporate and political structures.
2. Building Broad Coalitions: Engage a wide array of allies, including unlikely partners, to strengthen the movement's foundation.
3. Strategic Defections: Encourage key institutions and individuals to withdraw their support for authoritarian practices, thereby weakening the regime's hold.

She cites the 2024 U.S. elections as a critical moment where mobilizing the non-voting population could significantly alter political outcomes, demonstrating the potential impact of strategic nonviolent actions.

Signs of Hope and Ongoing Efforts

Despite the challenges, Chenoweth remains optimistic. She shares data from the Crowd Counting Consortium, revealing a surge in protest activities since 2017, with over three times the number of protests by May 2025 compared to May 2017. Notably, 99.6% of these events remained nonviolent, showcasing disciplined and effective resistance.

“There's a lot of resistance happening that isn't widely recognized, and it's incredibly disciplined.”
[53:41]

Conclusion

The episode underscores the enduring power of nonviolent resistance in effecting political transformation. Chenoweth’s research and insights offer a roadmap for individuals and movements striving to defend and strengthen democracy against authoritarian threats. By leveraging inclusive participation, strategic defections, and disciplined organization, We Can Do Hard Things illustrates that reclaiming democracy is not only possible but within reach.

Final Thought from Chenoweth:

“The United States has all the ingredients, and it's just a matter of being able to pull together the people and the commitment and the knowledge and the discipline and the energy to create something that will be just generationally transformative.”
[54:15]

Connect with Erica Chenoweth: For more on Erica Chenoweth’s work, visit her Harvard profile or explore her publications on nonviolent resistance and political transformation.

We hope this summary provides a comprehensive overview of the episode. To gain deeper insights, we encourage you to listen to the full conversation on We Can Do Hard Things.