FULL SESSION: Ezekiel Azonwu Shares at Convos on the Couch w/ @NikaoChurch

Summary

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We Need to Talk Podcast

Episode: FULL SESSION: Ezekiel Azonwu Shares at Convos on the Couch w/ @NikaoChurch
Release Date: June 6, 2026

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Overview

In this transformative session from "Convos on the Couch" at Nikao Church, host Kiyanna leads a raw, Spirit-led conversation with Ezekiel Azonwu, J.C. Shire, and Pastor Brian. Together with a live audience, they tackle crucial topics around faith, surrender, relationships, true masculinity, and what it means to follow God in a culture of distraction and distorted values. Candid, authentic, and often humorous, the discussion blends practical life experience with deep theological reflection, offering wisdom for both men and women navigating life, relationships, and personal calling.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introductions & the Calling to Podcasting (00:16 – 04:25)

• J.C. Shire shares how his podcast with his mom, "Full Fledged," was born out of a need for a stable foundation—"Jesus was the only thing I could stand on that didn't move."
• The show addresses the unique pressures on young adults and provides space to process faith authentically.
• Ezekiel Azonwu reflects on launching "We Need to Talk" in 2024, crediting its existence to God’s prompting rather than personal ambition. He emphasizes seeking out authentic voices, “sometimes the most unlikely people who have been through the darkest things.”
  • Quote: "The podcast is a testimony of what it looks like when we get out of God's way and let him do his thing." (04:04, Ezekiel)

2. Learning to Surrender and Trust God (05:00 – 13:00)

• J.C. acknowledges the tension between believing in God’s sovereignty and defaulting to self-reliance when things get tough.
  • Quote: "I believed God could save me eternally, but I didn't trust He could save me in history." (06:51, JC)
• Ezekiel recounts how God stripped away his financial and business successes, forcing him to rely on Him instead of his abilities. His journey mirrored Abraham’s faith, bringing him to radical surrender.
  • Quote: "Surrender looks so much more like abundance... I've never really given up anything. I'm just going to discover he intends to provide for me in that area." (11:51, Ezekiel)
• The group explores the biblical narrative of Gideon as a metaphor for God intentionally reducing resources to ensure dependence on Him.

3. What Does It Cost to Follow God? (14:55 – 27:52)

• The cost of discipleship is reframed; rejecting prosperity-only gospels, panelists highlight that true Christianity is uncomfortable and demands dying to oneself.
  • JC: "If I'm not dying to myself... if I don't feel the pain of having to let something go, then maybe I'm not carrying my cross like I'm supposed to." (21:00)
• Pastor Brian urges an eternal perspective on suffering:
  • Quote: "If you did go through 99 and a half years of hell but were promised eternity… it's not light in view of today, it's light in view of eternity." (26:57, Brian)
• The beauty and necessity of pruning—God removes even good things to purify and prepare His people.

4. Modern Idolatry, Purity & Surrender (28:05 – 36:10)

• Ezekiel addresses misconceptions about idolatry—anything, even good gifts from God, can become idols if "added" to what God wants for us.
  • Quote: "Purity means unadulterated, without contamination, or addition… Your preferences are not bad, but what has God said 'no' to today?" (31:36, Ezekiel)
• The conversation highlights how surrender actually positions us for more, not less, challenging listeners to inventory what God may be pruning.

5. Faithfulness Over Formula (36:10 – 39:17)

• J.C. vulnerably shares his struggle with wanting God's hand more than His face, referencing Daniel’s friends:
  • Quote: "But even if he does not… I won't bow down to any idols… Dying on the cross and saving me was enough." (37:55, JC)
• Surrendering outcomes and practicing daily death to self are essential themes.

6. Understanding Men, Masculinity, and Provider Roles (41:26 – 61:55)

• Ezekiel describes the unseen pressure men feel to "be strong, always know, always provide," and calls for women to approach men with empathy and spiritual sensitivity.
  • Quote: "Spiritual warfare sometimes looks like those men bringing those emotional voids into spaces that are not safe... The enemy works in networks." (43:38, Ezekiel)
• Honest discussion around male vulnerability, the weight of provision, and the importance of not making "Provider" man's ultimate identity.
  • Quote: "If I'm capital P provider, it means I can't fail. But God is always supposed to be your big P; I'm lowercase." (57:54, Ezekiel)

7. Godly Women & Modern Dating Dynamics (72:41 – 81:20)

• J.C. values women who are secure in their identity with God and don't seek constant validation through their appearance or social media.
  • Quote: "If you're trying to reveal yourself for attention... I want a woman who knows she's loved by God." (76:17, JC)
• Both men emphasize authenticity over image, humility in service, and reputation among peers.
• Classic “pursue and be pursued” wisdom: "If he would pursue me, he would continue to pursue me." (79:21, Kiyanna)
• The group cautions against “selling oneself” for attention and values confidence and service over self-promotion.

8. Final Insights: Encouragement to Women and the Church (83:25 – end)

• JC: "You don't need any man... or anything but Jesus to be complete. Everything else is the cherry on top."
• Ezekiel: Calls for intercession for one another, noting the enemy’s historic strategy to destroy men and, by extension, families and communities.
  • Quote: "If he wants to destroy the family, he has to destroy the men; to destroy the men, you have to kill the boy… Yes, that's a man that broke your heart, but it was a son that was broken first." (88:25, Ezekiel)
• The conversation ends with a powerful collective prayer over the women and affirmation of their beauty, worth, and completeness in Christ. (90:00 – 91:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Surrender looks so much more like abundance.” (11:51, Ezekiel)
• “You say you want a man of God, but you want to keep the six-figure check he made. You want him to be six feet, six figures, and drive a seven series... you don’t want a man of God; you want the man to become your god.” (63:07, Brian)
• “Be your man’s cheerleader, not his critic, not his coach. If he’s already dealing with pressure, he doesn't need you to criticize or coach him—he needs you to cheer for him.” (66:03, Brian)
• “True Christianity is uncomfortable... if you are doing it because of the way it looks, you are going to miss the point.” (22:24, JC)
• “Pray for sons. Because a good husband, a good businessman, the branch came from the root of a healed son.” (87:46, Ezekiel)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:16 – 04:25: Panelist introductions, stories behind their podcasts
• 05:00 – 13:00: On faith, surrender, and God’s pruning process
• 14:55 – 27:52: The true cost of discipleship; pruning and the “Gideon” principle
• 28:05 – 36:10: Modern idolatry and the “purifying through pruning” season
• 41:26 – 61:55: Masculinity, emotional pressure, and the myth of men as “capital P” Providers
• 72:41 – 81:20: What godly men look for in women; authenticity and holding standards
• 83:25 – end: Final advice, mutual encouragement, and corporate prayer

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Tone and Language

The session is lively and honest, full of humor (“You never seen a Nigerian prayer?” [42:41]), biblical depth, and vulnerability. Speakers repeatedly affirm the value of sincerity, humility, and reliance on God’s guidance over cultural norms or superficial expectation. The collective tone is pastoral and familial: “We Need to Talk” at its realest.

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Concluding Prayer Highlights

“Lord, may they know they don’t need the approval of a man when they have the approval of the Master. May they know they are beautiful, brilliant, and bold in You, in Jesus’ name.” (90:00–91:55, Pastor Brian)

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This summary captures the progression, depth, and spiritual impact of the conversation—a guide for anyone seeking wisdom about faith, surrender, gender, and relationships in the light of Christ.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome. This is. I feel. I'm. I mean, I don't want to feel the spirit of Oprah because I don't know what's going on with Oprah, but. And that's not mean to be shady. I just don't know. I don't. I don't know.

[B]

We'll put it on the podcast, but. Izekiel.

[A]

But I. I just feel this whole. I've been doing this for a couple years now, and this is my. One of my favorite part. Second favorite parts of this conference because I love having conversations now. I probably should have had a podcast before everybody and their mom had a podcast and started calling it Conversations on the Couch. And I was like, you know how Lord gives you an idea? And then he's like, oh, you didn't do it. Here you go, someone else. But I'm really excited. Thank you both for joining me, all three of you for joining me. You didn't really have a choice, but thank you for coming and joining me. We're going to have a great time. Can you just introduce yourselves and just tell the ladies who you are? I feel like they already know, but they may not really know. So just introduce yourself, J.C. tell them who you are, what your podcast is called, where they can find you, and give them, like, why did you start. What was the story behind where you are, and why you started what you did?

[C]

Great question. So My name is J.C. shire, from Dallas, Texas, originally born and raised. I live there now. I started a podcast called Full Fledged with my mom. Phenomenal Conversations. And the reason why I started even talking remotely about Jesus is because I realized he was the only thing that I could stand on that didn't, like, move. You know what I mean? Like, like he was everything else that I was trying to do in figuring out to fill the voids of my feelings, to wrestle with my thoughts, to cope with my. Everything that I was doing, it wasn't working sustainably. And so I was like, oh, well, let me. My parents was talking about Jesus growing up. Let me try that and let me see if that worked. And so I did. And I was like, wow, this is the answer that everybody's looking for. They just don't know where to go. So I was like, especially young adults in college and transitioning out of college, they just have all these pressures to do what everybody else is doing, the culture is doing. And so I was like, I feel like I need to have conversations with conversations on the couch. Maybe God gave the idea to me from you that might have been where it came from. But I just had this want to just have young adults, have a space for young adults to go to and to really learn. Like, what is Christianity all about? How do you. How do you reckon with it? And how you really become a disciple?

[A]

Oh, that's really good. And that's why I felt the purity. I mean, and it really is. I. I have not watched a full podcast, not because I wouldn't legit, probably don't have time enough to. If I'm reading my word and praying as much as I need to, I probably don't have time right now in this season. But the little clips that I did see, I did feel like you. And I keep saying this to people that have been here, but I heard the voice of God, which is the word, like, you really do your part. Posture is to, like, know him. So it was a. It was like, that's why the Lord highlighted you. So I'm grateful. That was awesome. Ezekiel, can you tell me, like, who are you? I mean, I already said Ezekiel, but who are you? How you get started? Why do you do what you do?

[D]

Yeah, Can y' all hear me? Hear me? All right. Very good. Not really. Right, Right. Okay. Hello. Hello. Okay, I feel like that was only coming to my speakers now. Okay. Ezekiel Zanwu, married 18 years this year to, I believe, the most beautiful woman who ever walked on the earth and five beautiful children who I love dearly. Yeah, five kids. That's usually the summary because that's a lot of stuff. I, you know, as of recently, as of 2024, started the we need to Talk podcast.

[A]

And it's only since 2024.

[D]

Yeah, you. That podcast is a straight God thing. I'm not going to get into it. Just I literally, the podcast is a testimony of what it looks like when we get out of God's way and let him do his thing. I used to be known as someone who speaks, and I'm on that podcast listening all day. So, you know, it wasn't my idea.

[A]

Right.

[D]

So I just really began to see that God wanted to highlight speaker specific voices not for the voice's sake, not for personalities, not for fame, but simply because there were certain messages that he needed to get out there. So, as you know, I, I don't look for famous people. I don't look for renowned people. I just want to know what God has to say. And sometimes he takes the most unlikely people who have been through the darkest things. And God gets glory. People are getting saved, people are getting delivered. And I'm just grateful to Be a witness to it.

[A]

Wow. And what was one of the things that you learned through this journey? Like, if there was one thing that you could say that was the most, like, you didn't realize, like, was the most impactful or just like, wow, I didn't realize that that was gonna. Whether it was a transformation for you or an understanding or God was trying to work something through you. What was something that you learned through this journey of, you know, doing what God called you to do?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. I believed in Jesus since I. Since I was young. I truly believed in his death, burial, resurrection, that he was God. Like, I believed that. However, I don't know if I understood that or I trusted God with every area of my life. For example. For example, we all say, like, God, you're sovereign. Like, I know your sovereign will be church, super spiritual. We'd be saying, God, we worship you. We know you sovereign. All this stuff, like, we know nothing goes out of the palm of your hands. However, whenever a situation gets hard, I usually resort to my own power to fix situations instead of trusting Him. Does that make sense? Hold on. I got one more. Can I get one more? Because.

[A]

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It hits home for me, this one I know some of y' all might relate to. You know, that one, like, co worker or that friend and student, classmate, teammate. Something that just get on your nerves so much, like the one that you just want to like that one. And then whenever they say something slick or something petty to you and you, like, retaliate back, like, y' all remember, like, a couple of times, look, praise God, you know, but the Bible says that God says that vengeance is mine. Right? We know that God's adventures, mine. However, when we resort to our words to bring justice for us, we're putting more trust in our words to do what God said He was supposed to do.

[B]

So.

[C]

So just little stuff like that that's like. Yeah, that just, like, I realized that I believe that God could save me eternally, but I didn't trust in him to save me in history. That was the boy.

[D]

If you all.

[A]

Yeah, that's good. That's really good. Thank you, Lord. Because if you're ever called to do something for God or God calls you to do something, whether it's for him or just in your life, it's gonna come with. Not about the destinations, about the journey that he takes you on and who he's trying to make you to be. So, Ezekiel, what did you. What is something that God impacted you, you learned, or through this journey?

[D]

Still, I'm still there. I'm like, I'm sitting in this chair, but spiritually, I'm prostrate. Like, yes. What have I learned, man? Just what it really looks like. I think the trust, that trust factor is. Is really key, man. When you've done some things yourself, your way, and you've relied on your talent, your ability, like my brother was talking about. Trusting God is saying it is one thing. Believing that he's my savior is one thing. But to know that I can trust him in uncertainty is a whole nother thing. I shared before, like, as a Nigerian man. Oh, my. Oh, oh, do I have some witnesses in the house? Oh, praise God.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Certainty. Especially certainty. Financial security is really, really important. It got to a point where, I mean, everything that God allowed me to do, I start to see success. I was building businesses, and it's just. I don't know what it is about my life. It's like, man, sometimes I used to feel like, God, you be hating on me. Every time I feel like I'm about to get to the next level, you, like, pull the rug from under me. And he did that in a serious way as it related to the podcast. Because when I started the podcast, it was not supposed to be something that I was doing. It was supposed to be just something that I was doing to serve people and help other people. I didn't realize that God was putting me through school. Every time he sat me, I sat down in front of someone. I was learning. And also I was learning to trust him in a different way. I didn't know it was possible to be able to really, truly take my hands off of my life and say, God, do your thing. So I got to a point where everything was collapsing in my life financially, on the businesses. I'm just like, well, God, this is what we agreed upon. Like, I would. I would have these businesses that I would do, and I could just serve you and do ministry and pour into the ministry. Got to the point where I couldn't even afford to pour into the ministry. I thought I had to go back to the corporate world. I thought the connections and the experience in building businesses was to empower me to go back and serve companies and different things like that. I got into a position where I end up having to, like, apply to, like, hundreds of job positions, and no one called me. And I was just like, hold on, man, their resume is lit. What's going on? I got to a point where it got so serious. I was like, I just need to see if I'm hireable. I was just like, Home Depot. I'm talking about 20, 24 Home Depot. I need to. I just need. I need to be able to just make a little bit more income to get over the hump. These. The bills were on somebody else's. Like, that was a different level. And I, like, the money wasn't right. I got to a place where I was just like, well, God, it looks like you're sabotaging my life. It looks like you don't want me to succeed. What do I need to do? I realize that when you say that you trust God, he's calling you to raise the knife like Abraham to Isaac, even in the good things of your life, your skills, your ideas. And he said, would you trust me? I realized the things that I was praying for, the opportunities that I was hoping for, the opportunities that I would have surrendered the 24 hours of my day for. I would have been shortchanging myself in to such a degree that it was an insult that I was praying the prayers that I was praying. God wanted to set me up for so much more. And surrender looks so much more like abundance. Because on the. On the mountain that Abraham raised a knife and thought he was going to lose his son was the mountain where he knew God was Jireh, which means he provides. So I'm no longer going to resist the Lord when he's calling me to. To give up something, because I've never really given up anything. I'm just going to discover he intends to provide for me in that area.

[C]

Can I please say I please?

[A]

That is, this is the conversation on the couch. This is what we do.

[C]

And this hits home, bro. Like, seriously, like. And I mean that, because hearing that is so encouraging. It made me think of the story of Gideon. Gideon is. Has these people. And God is like, nope, go down some more. And he's like, okay, I got. Nope, go down some more to 300 people. And he's like, God, I got 300 people. I can't defeat the Midianites who got like 40,000. And God is like, well, no, the only reason why I did that is because I want you to know that when you win, the Israelites, no, it wasn't them. It was me. And so I think it's so. It's. It's just an incredible how sometimes we feel like God is hating on us, like you said. And he's like, God, why would you make this business not work? Why would you make this relationship not work? Why would you make my finances look like this? And God is like, I'm just setting it up so that when you do discover, when you do win, God is like, it was me. It was me. So that's encouraging. That's encouraging.

[B]

I'm gonna jump.

[A]

Wait, no, no. I want you to jump.

[B]

I was gonna jump right there.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

In that story of Gideon, to that. To that point, confirmation, can they hear him?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So real quick. Part of the questions that we were going to get into was, what does a godly man look like you're seeing? A godly man doesn't chase success. He chooses surrender. See, but what everybody sees is Ezekiel and wow and the podcast and 300,000 followers, I'm counting today. But nobody sees the behind the scenes and the surrender on the knees. Nobody sees. I surrendered my yes. And to the honesty. But in that passage in Gideon, when God calls him to go down to 300, the Bible says that the 9,700 left their provisions and their trumpets, so he had less quantity, but he had all of the quality. And I say that to say, be careful thinking that you can grab more rather than release more. And God give you multiplied measure of more. And let me tag this. And I'm. I'm out. I told you not to put me up here. I told you I wanted.

[A]

Oh, you're my favorite.

[B]

I literally wanted to hear from you.

[A]

No, no, no, you're. I know you're fine.

[B]

To your point, you don't. Where the spirit of God is flowing. So many of you, you heard him, but you're like, okay, he's gyra. But the question is, theologically, was the ram already in the bush, or did the ram not get revealed until the knife was raised? So a lot of you are waiting on him to be gyra. You're like, it's. It's on the altar. But God knows, if you really have raised the knife, God knows you wait. You're like, oh, Jerry, she didn't ask my real question. Is Sherry single? Is JC single?

[A]

Honey, I dealt with all those. Those spirits before. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely checking that. Yeah, yeah, we talk. We talk. We had a girl talk before you came out, and I said that they

[B]

were with five kids. Praise God. But a lot of you, like, where's my. Where's my.

[A]

Got rid of the Jesse tendencies. Not up in here, we're not.

[B]

Where's my so and so? Maybe he'll be revealed when you raise the knife to the one who you knows not it, but it keeps you warm at night. He tells you you're pretty, but you know he's Not a man of God. See, God's not gonna bring you.

[A]

Listen, let me just say something. Let me just say something. Let me just say something to you ladies. Let me. Let's just get real for a minute, okay? Many of you will go to conferences and hear the conviction of the Lord. And then the devil. You will allow the devil, just like in the garden with Eve, to convince you out of what God just said. You. You better heed the word of the Lord right now. He is speaking to you. What you have right now is what. Is not what God has for you. God is speaking to you. I just wanted to pause right there and just allow you to sit in and be like, y. Send the text right now. Delete the contact right now. Block them and just say. And you know what? Don't even know what. What do I say? Put up the deuces.

[B]

Block animals. Block.

[A]

Remove.

[B]

Unfollow.

[A]

And then when the devil tries to. To tempt you because you feel lonely at night, put on some worship music. Because you know what flees when worship comes on? Lust. All you hot. I mean. Okay, close your ears, guys. Hot and bothered will leave when you put on some worship.

[B]

Am I really supposed to.

[A]

And then take a cold shower. The natural in. And the spiritual and the natural create the supernatural. I was just being funny to lighten it up because I got a little silver. Your stay. I'm sorry. All right. So the thing about it that I love about the Lord is that we were totally flowing. That was totally the Holy Spirit. Because what I heard is, like, your perspectives, all of you, about the costs of following God has shifted. Like, because I would believe a lot, like a lot of us, when you say yes to the Lord to follow the Lord. A lot of the whining and complaining like the children of Israel is because it's hard. But now that you're walking and you got some. You got some weight to you. You're not light in the pants anymore. Like they would say. Like they would say, you need some. You need some weight in your pants. You too light now that you've gotten heavier. And understand what God is trying to do and the why he's trying to do it because he wants the glory. The cost doesn't seem that much. Am I wrong? So what is your view on the cost to follow God right now?

[C]

Want to go ahead and start. Start us off right, Mr. Ezekiel, sir, you want to go ahead and.

[A]

Or Pastor Brian, one of y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Come on.

[D]

Sometimes he has to deal with letting go of the cost of our own Preferences and expectations, right? I look at like Jesus, when Jesus died, he was resurrected. Mary went to the area, went to look for Jesus, and she was weeping. And the angel first said, hey, do not weep, but Jesus. When she saw Jesus in the garden, she recognized him as or did not recognize him. She said, sir, wherever you have laid Him, I perceive your gardener. Wherever you have laid him, could you show me where you put his body? So the Jesus that she had walked with, the Jesus that she had known, she couldn't recognize because of her failed and faulty expectations. She was expecting to see a corpse, so she could not recognize the living God. And I think sometimes for us, we have really distorted expectations. Even the things that we perceive as good, the Lord in heaven perceives as dead. And so we'll never be able to see Jesus Christ when he shows up in the fullness. And so what happens when we misinterpret, misdiagnose and call Jesus the one who is the Creator, the life giver, rabbi, teacher, promise, promise, maker, healer. When we misdiagnose him as a gardener, misdiagnose him as common, then we then have to deal with and we have to reckon with now we have to create relationship with a faulty representation of a person that is not even. So it's not that Jesus is not there, is that I'm trying to relate to a Jesus that's not the fullness of who he is. I'm trying to relate with a Jesus that's gardener. When I have a Jesus that is Savior, that is Lord, that can keep me, if I can't recognize him for who he is, I'll never be able to tap into what he can give

[C]

me

[A]

that is so good.

[D]

And, and so letting go of preferences, man, the way we expect Jesus to show up, the way we expect tomorrow to look. Imagine us rejecting God's gift because it's not packaged the way that we deem it to be packaged. So letting go of what we think it should look like is deliverance in and of itself.

[C]

Okay then. All right, got it. I don't know I'm supposed to have today. You said something at the beginning about Jesus on the cross, right? So one of the famous, most famous verses in the Bible about like, the cost of Christianity is to like carry your, you know, carry across, right? Like, that's, that's the thing. But I think the question is, what does it look like to carry your cross? And then I always ask myself the question, well, what did it look like for him? It was unto the point of death. He died and so I'm just like, well, if I'm not dying to myself, if I don't feel the physical pain of having to let something go that has life, then maybe I'm not carrying my cross like I'm supposed to be. That's the first thing. Second thing that came to my mind is when. Sorry, they make me laugh. They're funny, Jesus. So there was this guy, and he was like, hey, Jesus, I want to follow you. And Jesus was like, foxes have holds, birds have nests, but the Son of man may not have no place to lay his head. And so that's. Jesus is saying, if you follow me, you might not have a place to sleep. Like, it is going to be uncomfortable on the journey. I think we have, like, a prosperity version of Christianity today. It's so.

[A]

It's.

[C]

It's so cool to be a Christian right now. I mean, it's so dope. Like, you do it. You got the trucker hat, you got the swag and the gear. Everybody got the brands right now, and it's dope. I love it. But if you are doing it because of the way it looks, you are going to miss the point of Christianity. You are going to miss. And you. This is. I think this is the reason why some of my friends I've seen who have been like, oh, yeah, Christianity, Jesus. And then three years later, they're like, oh, I don't believe in Jesus anymore. Because they didn't have a proper expectation of what Christianity actually was. It's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable. Now. God has grace and mercy and love in the uncomfortable, and he wants us to have that, but it's uncomfortable. That's the cause.

[A]

It's so interesting you say that, because as you were talking, I was thinking. I do think that there is a distortion of the gospel right now in the body. Because, Jerry, when you're talking about it, that is the gospel. I think when people think about gospel, they always want to band aid grace upon it and just. And then put God's love, my God. But don't talk about the suffering, the dying, the burying, and even the resurrection, honey. And that was one of my questions. Like, man, I just felt God. Because one of the things I feel like we don't recognize is that

[B]

we

[A]

were put here on the earth to be ambassadors of Christ, as the Bible says, to reconcile the world to God. And if we have a false understanding of what this whole life is about, then, number one, we live with distractions and we don't live on assignment. And then that means the Consequences that people are dying, or we're giving them a false gospel that they're being deceived by, and that means that they may go to hell. So my heart, just like in that moment, Just the idea. But, honey, what is the gospel? Can you just give us. I know I given the pastor. It's a whole three part service. I'm sorry.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

You want to skip it?

[B]

Can I just.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Let's sit there for a second.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At Niko, we. We have plans in pencil and we let the Holy Spirit write them in pen. I think some of you need to take a moment, like 10 seconds, and say, what preference have I placed on God that was not his will for me. And, Lord, if you don't do it like this, then maybe you're not for me. Some of you literally, like, this is your altar. Call it your seat. Like, I die to this preference. I died to that. If you never gave me that thing, that thing, that thing, if you never did that, what's your that? See, because everybody has a that. Would you still trust him? Would you still follow him if he never healed you, if he never brought that man, if he never gave you that job. Can I go even deeper? If it never changed, What is the gospel? It's the good news. But there's no good news if there's no bad news. Truly, Truly, I say to you, in this world, you will have trouble. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers them from them all. And here. Here's what I've been talking to some older bishops, and I'm not going to answer the question. Sorry. And I've been asking these fathers in the faith, what if you could have an audience with the body of Christ? What would you say? And man to man, these older men of God in the faith have been telling me, son, I would tell them to have an eternal view. Consider him who, for the joy set before him, endured the cross, scorning its shame. In other words, if you did go through 99 and a half years of hell on earth, but you were promised eternity with your Father in heaven. That's why it's a light and momentary trouble. Because it's not light in view of today, it's light in view of eternity.

[A]

That is so good. I'm gonna make like a crazy hard shift.

[B]

Let me go one more because.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Said something in the back. I want you to. These two men of God in the. I mean, the real. We should have videoed the. The. The back. You said something and one of the questions later is, what is God doing in the body? When I was praying last night and just kind of looking over the notes, I feel like the Lord is purifying through pruning. He doesn't prune. He prunes good things. He prunes the businesses. And I think real quick, To Jerry, to JC's point, we know about God, but we don't know the heart of God. That's what Ezekiel's saying. He's saying, you have a view of God, that he's genie, not Jehovah. So if he'll give me what I want, I'll rub him the right way with praise, with my obedience. But if he doesn't, I won't serve him. And here's the thing about cost. Real quick. Paul said, it's a reasonable service. What. What was reasonable to offer my body as a living sacrifice. So you didn't worship because you lifted your hands. You worship when you crucified your flesh. And. And here's where I'm going. You said something. Ezekiel, you said, we. We talked about. And some of you may be hating on him for. Because he touched your idol, but that what God is doing. He's purifying your idols. He's pruning you even things you thought were good. It's my network, it's my family, is this, it's that. And he's preparing the body. The Bible says earthquakes, but before there's an earthquake, there's a tremor. And what if the Lord was allowing the body to be shaken so that what can be shaken would be shaken, to your point. So every other ground here, I'm done. You said this, you said in the back, you said, people think you're just coming for one topic. But you said, no, I'm coming for every. Go there for me.

[D]

Yeah, man. The word pure, purify. I think I've been. I've been attacked recently about the whole D9, the idolatry and stuff like that. It's because people have a wrong view of what idolatry looks like. Sometimes people think, you know, they hear idolatry. Well, thou shalt not have any other God above me. No, it said, thou shalt not have any other gods before me, which means in my presence. The idea, when you look up the word purity or pure, it means unadult, unadulterated, without contamination. Or another way to look at it is without addition. If I had a pure cup of water, last cup of water, just water in there, and I go get a sanitized button and put it inside that cup, that water is no longer pure. Not because the button was necessarily bad or filthy, but because it's in addition to what the water was. The water is no longer pure. So I get it. I get it. Your preferences are not bad. Your networks, your friends, maybe even the community service is not bad. But what have let me do an inventory and assess my life, whatever that exists in my life that God is not saying yes today about. Did you notice I said today because in 2020 12, you were able to watch everything you want and stay anointed. 2017, you was able to have a boo and y' all was able to do a little freaky stuff, and you're still able to prophesy. 2022, you were still able to keep friends and gossip on the side, and God was still able to use you on your platform. You didn't lose no followers. You didn't get embarrassed on social media. But now, 2026, when I do an inventory of my life, God is saying, I can't know. I will make it so that you can't even afford to live the life you live last. Last year. You'll start seeing God take away things that you thought was good, friends that you thought was down, relationships that you thought would last, jobs that you thought was a blessing. Because he said, I want to purify. Pay attention as you're growing and as he's revealing, as you're learning more about the Lord, watch what he snatches away. He said, he's pruning. He says, those of you that bear fruit, I'm gonna prune you so that you bear more. What God is saying. Here's the thing. Oh, God, you're so amazing. You thought you had it going on. And God is saying, I see more. The problem is we don't see what God sees. You praying for a bull and God said, how insulting. What I have for you is so much greater. You praying for the single bed, single family house. And God is like, I wanted to give you four units, but you still grieving and crying. And he's like, mary, why are you weeping? You're crying over dead things. I'm trying to give you something that's alive.

[B]

I know it's not my panel, but somebody should shout, mary, why are you weeping? Say it's better. That's the heart of your father. I don't take from you. I release you from. We were talking in the back. Niko Church People Growth journal this week. You missed the passage. It said, God isn't just a jealous God. It says his name is jealous, but how can he be a jealous God and his name be jealous? But he tell you not to be jealous. Because he's jealous for anything that would get in the way of what he has for you. So the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy, but he has come to give you life. But sometimes he gives you life by taking something that is going to take life. Babe, I don't know, but you. You called this thing, and I'm so proud of you. You're going hard shift, but people are getting free through a conversation on the couch. Jc, go ahead and preach into that, man.

[C]

I. I'm. I literally am not going to preach. I want to. I literally am not gonna do that. I want. I want to just take a second and sit here because I know, like, it can be easy to just throw out a lot of scripture and be great, and I love that. But I want to sit here and empathize because one of the things that I've had to wrestle with throughout the last two years, mostly with my strong walk with Christ, or I'm choosing to follow him, is the fact that I think you. A lot of times, I want him for his hand and not his face. I'm just. I'm just going to be real. Like, I'm not about to sit up here and act like, this is all good and I'm super holy. I'm not. Like. I literally be like, God, I. I want you to do this. And if you don't do it, then I don't know how much I can trust you. Like. Like, I have to die and wrestle with that and get on my knees and pray, literally, to be free and released. That mindset that I have, Like, I literally am. And one of my favorite stories is Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. And I actually have it pulled up right here. There's a verse that. So basically just give you a little bit of context. And so. Okay, see, now I don't even want

[A]

to get a context no more because, ladies, remember what I told you?

[B]

Y' all had a conversation ahead of us.

[A]

I told you we had a conversation.

[C]

I'm just. Okay, you know what? Long story short. But King Nebuchadnezzar was like, yo, y' all gonna eat what I want y' all to eat. And they were like, no, we not gonna do that. We're gonna do a God's way. Let's come back, and then we'll see who's the strongest afterwards. Obviously, the. The way the people who did a God's way were the strongest. And King Nebuchadnezzar was like, oh, yep, that's God. We're all gonna serve him. And then after a while, fell off, right? And then. So every King Nebuchadnezzar was telling everybody, I need y' all to bow down to the idols that I've made. Everybody has to bow down. The three Shad meek they were. They're like, no, we're not. We're not gonna bow down. King Nebuchadnezzar heated hot. He was like, bro, you know what? I'm not going for that. You know, serpents, guards, whatever heat up the furnace, make it seven times hotter than it usually is because I want to kill them. Like, I'm not doing that. So Shadow said something so powerful that has been the staple for my life in this area. Here it is. Hold on. I lost the first gosh dog it. See? Oh, here we go. If the God we serve exists, then he can rescue us from the furnace of blazing fire, and he can rescue us from the power of you, the king. Here it is. Here it is. Don't miss it. Here it is. But even if he does not,

[B]

but

[C]

even if he don't do anything, you know how powerful it is to have the faith to say, God, I know you will. I know you'll give me the husband that I want. I know you'll give me the wife that I want. I know you'll be able to provide for me. But even if you don't, I won't. I won't bow down to any idols that anybody's made. It don't matter what king, it don't matter what YouTuber, it don't matter what podcast, I don't care what. I won't bow down to any idol because it don't matter, because Dianu means it would have been enough if you did nothing else. Dying on the cross and saving me was nothing was enough. The fact that a holy God like that could save and wants to have a relationship with a sinner like me, that's enough.

[D]

That's enough.

[C]

And I just think it's. It is a daily death for me to be able to say, you know what, God, you don't have to do anything else for me. You've done enough.

[A]

I.

[D]

There.

[C]

There was no earning of salvation that I could have done. It was a free gift from you by your grace. That's it. That's all. That's that. That's it. There is nothing else that you have to show me. Or do for me. For me to give you my whole life.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord.

[B]

Somebody should say thank you, Jesus.

[D]

Jesus, thank you.

[B]

You want me to make this hard shift for you?

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

You're going in glorious.

[A]

No, no. I know. Yeah. But I'm okay. All right. I wanted to ask you guys. Now I want to get into some of the questions that we have regarding men. So I told the ladies that I was going to ask questions and you guys are going to help them understand men. Because I do believe that for whatever reason, we've been given a lot of. Or bought into the lie from the enemy about the image of God's sons. And I think that we need to. And we don't have enough pure conversations and. Because I think a lot of times we show up with our expectations or intentions unspoken sometime. And so it blurs the lines of communication to be able to get the purity. So I just wanted to have an honest conversation. And they. And I told them that they're not allowed to use this or weaponize this because this is a sacred place for men to allow us into these sacred places. And not that you're going to, but it is for a man to open up their heart or even just a little bit of themselves and share the things that are on their heart or what they think. It's sacred and we should cherish it as that. So what are some of the things that you think that men in general kind of struggle with but don't really talk about that you think it would be beneficial for us as women to understand?

[D]

I gotta say one thing is the pressure. The pressure of being a man and believing that we have to always be strong, always provide, always know. That's a big thing. Always know. Talk about the certainty. We sometimes we pretending like, yeah, we got this, and, you know, we don't fully got this. And I think what it would. What would be beautiful is if the Jesus in our wives, the Jesus in our sisters, the Jesus in the woman around us would encounter the Son in us more often. I think there'll be a lot more healing. I think the Son in us meets the resistance, the conflict, the expectations, the pressure, far more than it meets the Jesus in some of the our women out here. And I'm not trying to place any blame, but when we talk about spiritual warfare, spiritual warfare don't always look like Nigerian prayer. We blow them down in the mighty name of Jesus. That's one side of it.

[A]

However, Nigerian prayer.

[D]

Oh, you ain't saying Nigeria Prayer.

[A]

No.

[D]

Settle wherever you may be hiding,

[A]

Let

[D]

the earth open up and swallow them. Every witch and wizard. If you are standing on my destiny, I don't care.

[B]

What?

[D]

You never seen a Nigerian prayer? Okay.

[B]

You sleep messing around, stuff gonna pop up.

[D]

Oh, man. Listen. Oh, y' all sleep? Oh, you ain't seen Nigerians pray?

[A]

I'm from Boston.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

I mean, they're everywhere.

[D]

They're there, too.

[B]

I know.

[D]

We are everywhere. Look under your seat. We are there.

[A]

Now.

[B]

You made me.

[D]

Why do you make me lose track?

[A]

Now I'm gonna be looking up my algorithm. Everybody's iPhone is now gonna find Nigerian prayers.

[D]

Oh, yeah. So like I was saying, you had me thrown all the way off, but stay focused.

[A]

Like this.

[B]

Sorry.

[D]

Spiritual warfare is not just that. Sometimes spiritual. We don't realize how much and how often the enemy exploits our emotional voids. And what happens is spiritual warfare sometimes looks like those men bringing those spiritual emotional voids into spaces that are not safe. The enemy works in networks. What do I mean? Because he's attacking your husband or attacking the men in your life emotionally, he's gonna. Yeah, drill, drill, drill, drill there. But you know what he'll also do? He'll send demonic entities and strategies against you to make you ignorant, to make you ticked off, to make you offended by his tantrums, to make you reactive to what he's going through, to make you. I really. That was the thing I realized about the enemy. He never has isolated attacks. It's always strategic sieges into homes. So it was not an accident that while you were getting abused, your parents were really, really busy and struggling financially? You think it was just a coincidence that your big cousin that was supposed to be praying for you was praying on you? It's a network. It's strategy. He's not just shooting one darts. He's shooting fiery darts in multiple directions. People are supposed to be looking after you. They're turning a blind eye where you're supposed to be working hard and serving here. He's causing other things to happen in other areas to create more access and vulnerability. So if we know that the enemy works like this. Now I'm using spiritual lenses when I see him, or if I don't even see it yet. But I anticipate that my man, my brother, my son, might be dealing with things emotionally that the enemy wants to exploit. I'm going to be more sensitive. Sensitive to the fact that he might have things he's carrying that he's not sharing. So I'm going to be more prayerful. I'm going to be more attentive, I'm going to uphold them. I'm going to listen, I'm not going to be reactive. Men was, you know, you know what's really, really sad amongst the men I've talked to, I've said, how many of you feel like your wife is your friend? Very few raise their hand because when they bring the most vulnerable parts of themselves, oftentimes it get, it gets left unattended, it gets dealt with harshly. And so instead they begin to go back and look for ways to self medicate because they weren't able to find safe spaces to unload and unpack. And so I would just say let's be sensitive to the way the enemy works and make ourselves that, make ourselves vessels. Bring Jesus into the room. Lord, how do you want me to tend to your son? Because it's your son before he's your husband, right? It's, it's, it's the Lord's son before that's your son. It's the Lord's son before that's your brother. Lord, how do you want me to address your son? How do you want me to pray for your son? That's just something I just.

[A]

Jerry, you have anything you want to share?

[C]

I, I J.C. sorry. No, I'm good. It's okay. I, so I am in a very different situation. My man just spit fire right there. Spitfire. I've, I'm in a unique situation. I have never ever been in a relationship my entire life, never in my 21 years. And I'm tell you why, because at every stage of my life, for me personally, I felt like there was a goal that I was so attached to, sometimes the, sometimes too much to where it became an idol so God had to strip me up. But I was so attached to the goal that I didn't want anything to come into the way of me achieving that goal. For me in high school as being a basketball player, I played Division 1 basketball at Liberty University four years and, and that was my goal in high school. I was, I want to do that. So that was the goal. Nothing was going to get in the way of that. And then when I got to college, it ended up shifting into, into speaking. I also do business. I love business. I don't know if you and I, that was my thing. And I know that God has called me to be able to impact people, however many it is, be able to impact people, to change people's lives, help transform people and all that. And my fear is because I always have people Saying these little funny, slick comments like, oh, you on the right path. Right? You good. Keep your head down. You don't need to worry about a girl right now. And for my whole life, I've always been like, okay, well, then that means a girl is. Is a hindrance. And so it wasn't until recently that I. I was talking to my mentor, we went out to eat, and I asked him about his, because he has a bunch of businesses and has done very well for himself. And I was like, sir, what was the. What was the thing that, like, you know, catapulted you? He was like, I wouldn't have anything I had without my wife. And so there's this dichotomy in my head of, like, there are some people that are like, hey, yo, a wife is going to hinder you. A girlfriend's going to hinder you right now. There are some people that, like, I wouldn't have anything that I have without my wife. And so I guess this can also be in the form of a question from people who are married, from a single man. How do I wrestle with the idea of a girl in this phase of my life being highly ambitious, wanting to achieve all that God has for me, being, like, not wanting to be like the Israelites and ultimately achieve and inherit all the land that God has called me to inherit? How do I do that and also do a relationship at the same time?

[D]

Almost 21 years.

[B]

No, it's brilliant. And thank you for the vulnerability. You said something at the end, jc, you said, how do I decide between the dichotomy of a girl that could be a distraction and a wife that could help me with my assignment? That is your answer. And that is your answer. He who finds a, finds a. Okay, but hold on. If she hasn't been found. If she hasn't been found yet. She's not married yet. But the Bible calls her a what? So she was something imposter before she was something in position. And I say that to say, jc, a lot of the differences, if you look in the Hebrew, we're not going here today. Ezer means help, Ebenezer. God is my help. God sent you as a woman to be a help, meet for an assignment. So the issue is the selection of who would be the determining factor of if it's a distraction or if it's a help. And can. I want to piggyback, because these two men of God are giving you the answers to the test. You said something so deep. How do I tend to your son? Listen to me. If you Weaponize this against the men in our church, I promise we're gonna have a problem. I'll hold a men's conference. I hold a men's conference just to get back at y'.

[C]

All.

[B]

No, I'm just playing. Listen. Most men, we're always sons of God. So we have the position of man, but we have the heart of a son. And most men live by. Even when. When JC's talking about his. His drivenness. Most men listen to me live by a scorecard. And we are trying to see. Listen, let me help you. I've studied this. There are four primary questions in a man's heart. Am I enough? Do I have what it takes? Am I alone? And do you see me and like what you see? Think about a little boy. A son. Ezekiel's son is traveling with him. He loves art. Well, he doesn't draw and hide it from you. He brings it to you, says, dad, look what I drew. It's Daddy. Do you see me? And do you like what you see? Stay with me. I'm sorry, honey. If you have a wife that you are the most intimate with, physically, mentally, emotionally, they were naked and unashamed. It was bare. That man is letting you see. And if he gives you access and you don't like what you see, you have crushed the son. You staying with me? Am I enough? Am I this? Am I that? Let me just. Let me. If they're not gonna catch all that. The Lord said this to me last night. I've never said it before in this way. If a man lives by a scorecard, and Ezekiel talked about the pressure, and JC's expressing the pressure of even deciding. Do I. What. What's happening? Like, what do I do in all these businesses and success. What most men live under. A weight you'll never understand. And here it is. Let me give you an answer. Anger is a secondary emotion.

[D]

Come on.

[C]

Go there.

[B]

So you're trying to pray at his anger rather than for what is triggering his anger. Can I even. So you're saying he's got a rage issue? No. He has something that he hasn't shared, but if he brings it to you and then. Listen. He said it. Listen. Why you want a man of God to lead you if he can't even figure out where to park?

[A]

Honey, this is something I'm going to interrupt you for only because this is something that. No, no, no. You're. You're good.

[B]

I'm gonna sit back, but this is

[A]

something that I actually wanted to talk about because I think.

[C]

Let me.

[B]

Let Me drop this. Then go, because you're gonna shift it.

[A]

No, no, no. I wanted to talk about that.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

Just. Yeah, yeah, please trust me.

[B]

20 years.

[A]

This is when I, I told the women you guys were out there, you were in the back. No, no, we're totally fine. But I told the women in the front. The reason why my husband has such an amazing prayer life is because of me. Because I really do drive him crazy. And he needs the Lord

[C]

number one

[A]

on his scorecard to pray for because. No, anyways, but I wanted. It's something that you just were talking about and then the Lord reminded me and it's here. But I think also the thing that I would love to talk about is I think the description of a godly man, the masculinity that. How they, how we see men is in opposition of how the world is trying to present men right now. Do you understand? Saying like. Because as I'm watching my son naturally being raised in, with a father, there is this masculine. And I think there was a generation of men that were raised by women and lots of women around and they were feminized. And now when men are starting to be men, women don't know how to react to the men because I don't think they understand that that's what a man. That's what a man is. I mean, and I think it's multifaceted. And I, and I, and I know that this is. There was a. I was watching this podcast. I'm not gonna say what I was. I was looking at this, the title of this podcast. Didn't watch it, but it was like, the title was like, what's a woman? And they were going out asking people, what's a woman? Because we have this whole trans thing. And so because there is a definition, like God does describe attributes of men and women. And so if you could just help the women understand what is a man? There is masculine. There's anger, this passion. Like, what is a man? What are the attributes of a man? Their sensitivity.

[D]

Quickly. Because, honey, he, he likes to point. But we know you preach. Don't do, don't do that now. Don't do it. I think, yeah, just the complexity of a man. I think sometimes we're short sighted to see that. And I think we do a disservice as men and women when we only look at man as the macho, this man. Like, yes, that's part of it. And you know, we own that, we love that, we want to be that for our families, for the people that we Protect and we love. But if we make men this one one dimensional figure, then we lose sight of being able to position ourselves for the spiritual warfare necessary. Because in moments when he has to be protected, he'll be protector. Moments he has to be provider. And I got to talk about the provider part. I don't believe that men were called to be capital P provider. This is what I mean. I mean that the idea, you catch me because it's not coming from a fleshly place. Because naturally I want to be everything I could be. If you're gonna sit with me, I want to pay. I'm. I'm the pay. If we. Look, I don't care who you are, I'm paying. That's the kind of guy I am. But I realized you take me out

[C]

to eat after this. We trying to go.

[D]

Yeah, we can do it. I'll pay. It's really good if we friends, I'm gonna take you out. I'm pay. Because this, it just does something for me. Yeah, we friends. It does something for me.

[A]

It.

[D]

It blesses me to bless.

[A]

No.

[D]

So I love it. But I realized there's a toxicity in the mindset to think that I am capital P provider. What I mean by capital P, it means that when God. When God provided Eve to Eve to Adam, he gave him or he provided a help meet that was suitable. Meaning he knew Adam top to bottom. He understood everything Adam needed and he provided Eve to suit. Meaning custom fit for Eve. So there is a all knowingness, there's an omniscience necessary to be big provider. What I'm assuming when I say I'm big provider. Capital P means I know all I see all. When all this man might be doing is getting a check. When all this man might be doing has than building a business. Now, if I'm capital P provider, it means I can't fail. It means that if I do fail to provide like you perceive providing, then somehow I lose the significance of my manship. And here's the thing. God sent Adam into the garden to not be capital P provider or owner. He sent him there as steward. The posture is different. It doesn't mean that I can't work hard. Listen, a good man that loves God and loves his family. I'm gonna say this. You don't have to put pressure on him to work and to make money. He feels worse about not having a job. Look, a man that don't feel bad about not having a job to provide about his family, that man is suffering from not knowing what it means. To have the heart of being a good man that loves his family, that loves himself. He doesn't love himself. He doesn't love his family. Family. He wants to work if he's a good man. He wants to provide if he's a good man. However, a man that loves God understands his position. God, you are provider today and tomorrow the check that I make, whether I'm making six figures, whether I'm making 60,000, whatever I'm making, I am doing all because you provide. You give me the skill set. You give me the ability to be able to do what I do. However, I do not put my trust in what man can give me and what I'm able to produce with my own hands. In fact, Jeremiah 17:5 says, Curse is a man who trusts in the arm of the flesh. Meaning there's a curse attached to anyone who puts their trust in the flesh. Also tells us in Matthew 6:36, 32, 6, 33, don't be like the Gentiles who worry about what they're going to eat or what they're going to drink, but seek you first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all other things shall be added unto you. Which means that we have, we're not bastardized children. Gentiles is spiritual bastardship. Now, as children of God, we have a God that we can rely on. If you have a man that looks at himself as ultimate provider, then that means that he has the capacity to not fail. And that's not true. You shouldn't have. You shouldn't even create an atmosphere that puts the type of pressure on a man that only belongs to God. There's a gratitude and a posture that says God gives, God can take away. Which means if God shifted me and say I need to go full time ministry, I believe that he's going to help us grow in this place. If God wants to move me out of my city and I lose this six figure job, then God's going to put me in a position to make sure that he takes care of my family. Why? Because he love y' all more than I do anyway. And so I just want to just free men from that idea. And also, as you guys meet these men recognize that a man with the right heart is going to love you, is going to want to work hard, but he has a heart that says, lord, I'm surrendered to you. However you steer the boat. It got real quiet in here. You're the captain of this ship, your capital P provider. I'm lowercase. I'm lowercase. Lower P, lowercase P, provider. And I'm able to be in position because you put me there. Not because I have all. No, all, see all and can do all. I just want to say that. And I think I'm off. I didn't answer the question.

[A]

No, no, but you, you help them. Because I think many women, they hear that God, they hear that story about God being your provider. He is Jehovah, Jireh. But then they get a man and then they look to the man to be the provider for everything they need. But they're never, they were never intended be the big P provider for them. They were always meant to be the small P. And God is always supposed

[D]

to be your big P. In every area.

[A]

In every area. So you, you, you helped them and that was good. I wanted to ask another question. Do you have something to say, love? Okay, Gary, you good? I know that. In the back room we'll have them really answer that question that you asked. Because they didn't really answer it.

[D]

Oh, dang.

[B]

I do. Your question, what he just said is you say you want a man of God, but you don't.

[D]

Wait, no, no, no. Say keep going. Keep going, keep going, keep going, Keep going.

[A]

Wait.

[D]

Keep going.

[A]

Wait. Put up the wait. Buckle up. You, you don't turn. Your friend say buckle up. You don't.

[B]

Because you say you want a man of God who will sacrifice whatever it is to follow God, but you want to keep the six figure check he made. You want him to be six feet six figures and drive a seven series. See some of you about to miss your man because it didn't come in the package you want.

[A]

Honey, you talking good.

[B]

So you heard, you heard provider and you automatically hear six figures versus a hard working blue collar brother who will say, God, I'mma mop this hallway and sweep the demons out. In Nigerian prayer, every witch in warlock in the hallway, you, you don't want him. So when he says, God called us to do this, you don't want to do that.

[A]

No, I want my six carrots.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I want my six carrots in my four and a half bedroom house.

[B]

And it's just me, you, you. I don't know about you, J.C. but I, I mean he, he about to hit the 40 club almost.

[A]

JC probably have seen it in his

[B]

friend group, but his generation, we do. I was saving for an engagement ring. Now to propose. In your generation, you got to be able to fly the family to the engagement. You got to have a helicopter drop with the egg and the carrot, y' all Are picking out your own diamonds. So, brother gotta have. Come on.

[C]

That's not normal. I thought that that was regular.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

My wife.

[C]

Bamboozled. I've been bamboozled.

[D]

You.

[B]

No. My wife told me she took. We were walking in a mall, and we had been praying and talking about marriage and going through counsel and all the things, and she took. She. We walked by a silver. Per God, whatever. The little. Little cart in the mall. And she knew. She knew. When I met me, I was a college Student. Broke. Negative 2.68. I can. I saved the screenshot, except I didn't have.

[A]

He was working at Ruby Tuesdays.

[B]

Ruby Tuesdays start you off with something to drink. Sweet tea, lemonade.

[A]

Look at me now.

[B]

And she said to me, she said, I know you're working to try to buy me something.

[A]

Bundles. No, I'm just kidding.

[B]

Listen. She got her double for her trouble. You understand? She got that good hair. She got that. This stuff right here is good. Premium.

[D]

Premium. Premium.

[B]

You can find that at Home Beauty. That's. That's beyond 2B right there. She said to me, she said, honey, if all you ever gave me was a silver ring from this mall, I don't care about what's on my finger, she said, I care about who's in my life. And. And I'm gonna say one more thing, and I'm gonna go out the way. You don't want a man of God. You want the man to become your God.

[D]

If.

[B]

If that's what he's trying to say. And God, even those of you are frustrated in your marriage, is that you're trying to make your man of God God. You're looking for him to answer questions in your heart that only your father can answer. Your husband can tell you you're beautiful a million times. But if you're dealing with a spirit of rejection that only the approval of the father, he can't do it. So now you're placing pressure back on him, telling him on his scorecard he's not enough. And you wonder why he's not giving you back. Because. Okay. And some of you, you're waiting on God to be your God. Because if God gives you that man, he knows you'll stop seeking him. And I may not get another. Another point. So I want to say this. And you're saying it. This is what the Lord told me. Let me help all of you, whether you're unmarried or married. Let me father you for a second in the spirit, be your man's cheerleader, not his critic, not his Coach, if he's already dealing with pressure, he doesn't need you to criticize him or coach him. He needs you to cheer for him. It's not a lot of clapping. Well, he not worthy. He not worthy of my. You don't know my man. If he was like Ezekiel, if he was like JC Then I would cheer him on. The Lord is with you, mighty warrior. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Gideon was in a cave hiding threshing wheat, and God called him him. What God saw in him, not what he currently saw him doing. That's why the Bible says, husbands, love your wives, wives respect. God didn't make a mistake. He didn't. Trans men perceive love as respect and honor.

[D]

So can we. So the conversation he's speaking to is about the potential conversation. And we always say, you don't. Don't just date. Potential date, you know, So I. I want to say this now.

[B]

There.

[D]

There's a difference between random potential that never comes to fruition and the ingredients for more. Right.

[A]

That's really good.

[D]

So when you see. You're able to see the ingredients, the fruit of the spirit, the character, but also sometimes you don't recognize that you might be one of the missing ingredients. That is necessary. Let me tell you something about my wife. My wife was the missing ingredient. And I. I think sometimes when women look at men that really got it like that, they are looking at men who have acquired missing ingredients in their lives. And if you see a man, even if he looks like he's something, but he don't got you, you gotta look at him like he will be so much more. I don't see why women could just be in total admiration of a man and you ain't on his arm. Like, if you ain't in a picture, you're supposed to be like, yes, he's great, but there's so much that God has put inside of me for the person that God has assigned me for. So whoever I meet, I don't care who I meet, he gonna be better with me.

[A]

Why?

[D]

Because now he got an intercessor in house. Now he got someone to cater to his heart. Now he got someone they can relax his mind with. Now he got peace. You downplay yourself by saying, I need the full package. Like, if he's a full package without you, then what is you.

[B]

Time to go. Mic drop. Mamba out.

[A]

Ezekiel, that was so good.

[B]

We. We. I'm sorry. We in the barber shop now. So y' all just. Y' all stay here. J.C. i. I'm.

[C]

I'm.

[B]

I'M gonna take over for a second. One of the questions that's on this, that he's going to.

[A]

Can I just say this? Ezekiel, Can I just say this? It was interesting because as you were talking, I was reminded that in Genesis 2, the Bible does say that the man and woman came together and they became one flesh. Because that. It's interesting to me. Why would God make them one if they were both complete within themselves? They had to come one together because they probably needed each other to become a complete package.

[B]

So. So with. That's where we're headed. So, JC with that as the single man on the, on the panel,

[A]

security.

[B]

Oh, no, he's not walking out here after. He's walking.

[A]

No, he's not. Cuz I will instead. You're not gonna have his mama, his memes.

[B]

If he sees Charlotte in his DMs, I'm rebuking the whole church.

[A]

No, you're not having his mama after me.

[B]

But that's part of what I want to talk about. If he talked about you seeing you in the picture, I think we have to ask, what should you look like? And I'm not talking about just your outer. What is a man of God? If you do decide, Lord, you're leading me into this path. What is a man of God like you looking at and for? And if you even want to flip it, what are you not looking?

[A]

What? I really. I mean, that's great. Answer that. But I'm. Now I want to know, have you seen it? Is it even out there? Because there could be slim pickings. I don't know. So you answer.

[B]

Yeah, I'm gonna forget.

[A]

Someone get the fan.

[B]

We're in the barbershop. You're not here no more.

[A]

Somebody give me some popcorn. I want to listen. Give me some coffee.

[B]

Somebody get to clip us up.

[A]

We're gonna. I'm gonna sit in the corner.

[B]

It's the real, real this. All right, what do you. Go ahead.

[C]

Don't be real. I. So I feel like a lot of the times, and maybe this is my own insecurity playing into a part of this too, but I always feel like there is. There's an expectation for me to do everything for them and that there's no expectation for them to do anything for me. And not even in a selfish way. But I. The same mentor that I was talking to was like, I, I. He marries couples and he was like, I say one of the things is compete with your spouse, compete to see who can out serve each other. And for one of the Things I know that I am trying to mold myself right now to be a servant hearted husband one day. Like, that's what I'm trying to mold myself to be. To understand God. How, how have you called me to serve my wife? What qualities and characteristics do you need me to have? Because I am not a patient person. And so like, I know you need me to develop patience in order to be like empathy, like all those things that I'm trying to work on and pray on and all the stuff. And then I'm like, wait, I need to. I want my wife to be doing the same thing. I want my wife to be like, I want to know what characteristics I need to be honed, how I can be refined and then be able to come be like, this is how I can serve you. Just like how I want to be. Like, this is how I can serve you. And I want to out try to out serve each other in the relationship. So I don't know if that like, because. Okay, so there was a thing that we had on our basketball program and it was like, you're either a great teammate and fully invested or you're not. Like, there's no middle. You're either great to make, fully vested or not. And so for some reason throughout those four years, I was able to spot if there were. If I could tell if someone was there to serve for the team or to serve themselves. And so I always. And so for some reason I, I was able to hone that, that, that, that site. I could see that. And so whenever I, I meet a woman or I meet a girl, like I'm able to. Or even a dude, whoever it is, like that, just a regular person I can see. Are you just here because of what I can give you or are you here thinking this is how I can. What I can give to you? You know what I mean?

[B]

So, so good. Can I. I'm. That's so good. I'm. I just. I got to get this out. I need you to help me and you to help me real quick. If you, if you. Somebody did go in your DMs and you click their profile and you see. And you. And what is he seeing? I told you, we're at the barbershop.

[C]

I've seen some. Some. Yeah, barbershop. Yeah, barbershop.

[A]

Like in the description, does it say woman of God? Woman?

[B]

No, no, no, no. I'm not done with my question.

[A]

Mighty.

[B]

I'm not done with my question. Ezekiel, I want you to answer it too. Women of Nigerian 2020.

[C]

You wanna know the worst one, the worst one is the. Bob, the Bible verse in the thing. That's not bad. And it's up the Bible version, the thing. And then all the pictures are like, wait a minute. I don't, don't, don't, don't put the Bible verse, anything like that. And you gonna be posting pictures like that in the club with the, with the glass of alcohol and the shots with all your friends. Don't be doing that.

[B]

That's what I actually want you to help them with. Yeah. Because I think a lot of the daughters of God think they have to reveal themselves. So if I, if you saw a woman and you see all of her cleavage, you see her in her bikini all on the Internet, how do, how do you brothers feel as men of God? Is that, is that somebody. You're like, oh, let me, let me seek her.

[C]

Yeah, I'm going to be completely honest. I see that and I'm like, no, like, like immediately. I'm just like, because if you are trying to reveal yourself for attention, I'm just like, I don't, I don't, I don't want that. I don't want that. I want a, a woman who is, who, who does not have to seek the validation of other people to know that she's loved by God. Like, I don't, like, I don't.

[A]

That's good.

[C]

That's what it says to me. That's what it says to me. I've been there. Like, I, I've, I've seen attention on social media platforms before. Like, I understand that and I know that that's not a quality that should be in a spouse or a significant other or whatever. So I, when I see that, I'm like, no. Like I want you to, if your, your Instagram page, social page or whatever, it is a reflection of the woman of God that you say that you are. Like, you don't have to put a, I don't have to see a Bible verse in your caption or in your bio to, to be able to look at you and be like, oh, that is a woman who loves the Lord. Like, I don't have, I shouldn't have to see the Bible verse. And you trying. It's like a cover up sometimes. Almost like I live this way. But I got to though, just so you see that first and then don't worry about everything else.

[D]

And can I add to what he's saying and not, I think we think romantically in all settings, but be a good daughter. What I mean by that Is all around. Like, how are you known? Like, I know when you.

[A]

When you.

[D]

When you meet the person or the man that you like, you could put on this preference representative, and you could try to be that. And I want to serve you. You said you want to be served, and I'm here to serve you with everything that you need. Nah, hold on. How are you with the people that you don't like? How are you with the people that you have that you have that you can't benefit from?

[C]

I.

[D]

When I met my wife, I met her in junior college. What's your reputation amongst the men at the school? I asked all the homies. I asked everybody,

[C]

every single one of

[D]

them, all the dudes that was around. I'm like, y' all know, tell me the real. We had barbershop talk.

[B]

There's a phrase at my daughter's school called homie Hopper.

[A]

Oh,

[B]

God.

[D]

Rescue.

[C]

I'm familiar.

[A]

Wait, wait, hold on, guys. Are you saying, like, girls in a church? Are you just talking about in general?

[D]

In general, no. But, you know, women can have a. You can have a reputation without. You can have a reputation without actually being in people's bed. It's just the way you talk, the way you get down the. You know, whose DMs you're in, where you show up at. Yeah. So it's not just, you know, Justin, you. We catch you outside of church.

[A]

It's so interesting, because how I was raised, and I. And I think that we are. Had a generation where maybe for whatever reason, you know, mothers had to work and children were left to be raised by other people. But how I was raised. When I met my husband, I didn't say I love you first. I wouldn't even call him.

[D]

Oh, dang.

[A]

I mean, I would return his call. But there was a concept that. And I knew what I was. I knew that I. I served at the church. I was faithful. But there was something about. I realized that if he was gonna. He needed to pursue me, because if he would pursue me, he would continue to pursue me. I had him. And so when girls are, like, dropping in DL's.

[D]

Come on. Can we have the other side of the story? What's the other side of the story?

[A]

No, but when.

[B]

But when I say.

[A]

But this is the thing I was about to say. But when women start to, like, sell themselves, it is a sign that you don't understand your worth.

[B]

Yeah. Here's what I think. Here's the barbershop question. Do you find it attractive when a girl is chasing you?

[C]

No, not Really?

[A]

I mean, there's a difference between showing interest.

[C]

Yeah. When it's too much, I'm like, wait a minute now. I ain't that nice. Like, I don't know, why you trying to chase me? Like, why are you trying to chase me so hard? Then I started getting interested, and I'm, like, curious. I'm like, wait a minute. That don't make sense. I'm supposed to be chasing you. And then I tried. Like, it just is. It's a lot. It's a lot.

[A]

I think the thing that you said that was interesting, though, is that security, an awareness of their identity even as they're growing, is attractive a thousand percent.

[C]

A thousand percent. This, for me, it's just like. Like. And honestly, it's getting really hard to tell because people are really good at faking it. Oh, they're so good. Oh, they're so good. Like, I've almost gotten to the point where I'm just, like, I'm not judging nobody off social media anymore. Like, I don't care. I don't care what your page look like. It don't even matter. Huh? If I see you in person, then I can we. We have a conversation, then I'll be able to tell, right?

[D]

There are prophetesses throwing it back. It's like. It's a different world out here. You cannot judge by how they preach on social media.

[A]

Wait, what does throw it back mean?

[D]

You don't want to know.

[B]

Yeah, I don't.

[C]

Don't even worry about it. Don't worry about it.

[A]

That mean, like, drinking?

[B]

No. No.

[C]

Barbershop bar.

[B]

Babe, babe, I. I legit don't know

[A]

what throw it back mean. I got it.

[C]

I'll pray.

[D]

Father, forgive us.

[A]

No, no.

[D]

Past it to me.

[B]

Oh, sorry. I was just sitting down. Ezekiel.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

I was just sitting down. I thought there was something right here.

[D]

You like this?

[B]

You like this on Sunday, and you like this.

[A]

Place? And feel the atmosphere. Your glory. God is what my heart longs for to be over.

[C]

Sounds good. Y' all sound good. Y' all sounds good. Pastor Tamika, I am admired by your holiness, truly,

[A]

For a long time.

[C]

I praise God. You inspire me.

[A]

50 years old, I was. I was in the world when I was in my 20s. That's over almost 30 years ago. I legit and I don't know. I stopped. The Lord took Real Housewives of Atlanta so I couldn't. I don't know.

[B]

We should get to the last question. Okay, we gotta go. Last question was. It was. It was a great and we have some lessons to talk about in the. In. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Okay. All right.

[B]

The last question was this, because the last. The line's about to end, and we. We've gone over. Praise God. So praise the Lord. But as this blessed you have. Has Ezekiel and JC Blessed you?

[A]

Okay, so this is the last question. As I've gathered, if you could speak directly to the women in the room, as your sisters, as your moms, as your grandmoms, as just women, you know, daughters of God in this room, what would you say to them in this hour?

[C]

The only. You don't need any man or anything or any. Anything but Jesus to be complete. Like, that's it. I mean, that's men, women. That's every. That's. That's everybody. But particularly, I think my, like, my female friends can sometimes, like, want to feel validation from a man or from Instagram, social media attention, all that. But it's. I just think it's. It changed my life, and I've seen it change the lives of others whenever they realized that I'm good with God. Like, that's it. And everything else is. In addition, everything else is like, it's the whipped cream, it's the cherry on top, but the substance of my life is God.

[A]

Wow, that's good.

[D]

Can I just say, I'm extremely proud of you. I love what God is doing in your life, man. Real talk. I just. To be the age that you are, to walk with the wisdom and the weight that you walk in. And, yes, I know the family that you come from, but that's a unique anointing on your life straight from the Lord. The Lord did it himself. Credit to your surrounding your network and your family, but God is doing something really, really amazing in you, man.

[A]

Amen. Yeah. What would you say?

[D]

Oh, sorry. I would just say to my sisters in the room, I used to work with adults with disabilities. I worked with them for about six years, almost seven years, and I thought that was going to be my life's work, working with people with developmental disabilities and, you know, people that had a hard time just navigating into society. I used to take them out, used to be a caseworker for them, represent them, court in different ways, that they needed help. When I used to bring them around, my friends, my friends would be like, oh, here goes Zeke, you know, with the slow. With the slow dude. Or, here goes Zeke with the retarded guys. And I'd be like, man, how could you talk about these people like that? Why would you. Like, why would you insult Them like that. Why? And I realized it was because of the amount of time and investment that I put into these men, into these people, that I was unwilling to be dismissive as it related to their value and who they were and their dignity. And I realize when I see the way that we treat each other as a body, from men to women, women to men, in the comments and even perception, I realize that we have not invested in each other. We don't spend time in prayer. Look, if. If you spend time in prayer and intercession and investment into anyone or anything, you are careful about the way you speak about the thing, the person. Look, you can do whatever you want, but I put so much time, love, effort into my family for you to just run your mouth on my family, for you to deal with them anyhow, because I. That's my family. I love them. That's my people. In the same way, I don't see that same type of validation and upholding and support and intercession and investment into each other. If they're not booed, then they're nothing. If they're not my future spouse, then they're nothing. I'm talking to men and women. There's a lack of responsibility for each other because at the end of the day, you're a son and I'm a daughter. This is all we have that's going to go with us to glory. Pastor, not going with us. Businessman, not going with us. Your nursing degree is not going with you. Your daughter and I'm son. If we could. If we could take the time to begin to intercede for the sons. Women intercede for the sons. And I speak this. I have men's conference, intercede for the daughters. Because at the end of the day, if y' all do get married, I prayed for the daughter so that she can be the wife. I pray for the sons with that. And, and, and the son is just like, that's the tree. Like, if you see the branch of good husband, it came from a healed son. If you see the branch of a good businessman, it's. It came from the root of a good son. So instead of criticizing, judging, condemning, ridiculing, comparing with the brothers and the sons of God, if we could spend more time, like, sincerely, outside of the stuff that you do, take time and pray for the man. There is a distinct attack against the sons of God.

[C]

Why?

[D]

Because the enemy wants to destroy the church. And if he wants to destroy the church, he has to destroy the family. And if he wants to destroy the family, he has to Destroy. Destroy the men. But to destroy the men, you have to kill the boy. And he realizes he did it in Pharaoh, he did it in Herod. Every time a man was going to rise up to rule, he sent his agents and sent out a decree to kill the son before they grow stronger, kill him before they become men. And so now we have a generation of sons that have received the darts of the enemy, but have not received the intercession and support from the saints. And so we have a vulnerable generation of sons. Yes, that's a man that broke your heart, but it was a son that was broken first. So if we spent more time, if we spent more time on our knees, we'd be careful. You wouldn't allow people to just run their mouth about the sons of God. In the comments, he's like, yeah, I hear what you saying, but I've been praying for the sons. I've been praying for the sons of God. Yeah, I know you had bad experiences with dayday and them and. But I've been praying for the sons. I, I say this for each other. We have to keep each other at the feet of God. Keep praying for the men of God. And more than you expect a husband, pray for sons more than you interact and date, pray for the sons. That's all I would say.

[A]

Honey, I, I just feel like we should just pray to close out. Would you mind breathing a word of prayer over the women of God, the daughters of God?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Would you do this?

[B]

Would you do this for me? Women of God, Would you touch, lay a hand on your heart? Yeah, Father, in the name of Jesus, you love these your precious daughters, Lord, all of them in different circumstances, situations, all of them with different dreams and desires and different design. But God, I pray that this conversation was not three men, but it was you speaking. And I pray, Lord, that you would do a work in their heart. God, heal every broken place, touch every fatherless place, God, where there have been wounds from men. Lord, the three of us, we repent on behalf of our brothers, even leaders that hurt you right now, the Lord wants to heal you. And God, I pray right now. Supernatural identity. May they know that you are who they who you said they are. Not the world, not Instagram, not the man, not who their dad didn't say. Lord, I thank you now in Jesus name, Lord, may they know that they don't need the approval of a man when they have the approval of the Master. So Father, do what only you can do and guard their heart and mind in Christ Jesus, keep them, cover them and help them to know that they are beautiful, they are brilliant and they are bold. In you, In Jesus name.

[A]

In Jesus name.