This Spiritual Revelation will Blow your Mind w/ Robert Halwell

Summary

Episode Summary: "This Spiritual Revelation will Blow your Mind" w/ Dr. Robert Hallwell

We Need to Talk Podcast
Hosts: Ezekiel & Kiyanna
Guest: Dr. Robert Hallwell
Date: July 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode goes deep into the nature of spiritual fruit, the concept of soul wounds and voids, and the necessity of moving beyond surface-level deliverance to actual soul transformation. Dr. Robert Hallwell returns to the podcast, bringing profound revelations on how the fruit of our lives reveals the state and root of our spiritual partnership. The discussion upends traditional views on deliverance, exposing why so many Christians circle back into bondage and unhealthy cycles, and offering a transformative, practical model for sustainable healing and growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Deliverance vs. Discipleship: The Incomplete Path

• Opening Point: People often receive deliverance but fall back into the same patterns because, while bondage is removed, the root issue—a soul wound or void—is not addressed. (00:00–00:33)
  • Dr. Hallwell: “We remove the bondage, but we never address the counterfeit intimacy. When you don’t turn to God to fill that wound, your soul starts searching for where can I get it from?” (00:09)
  • Ezekiel: “The hungrier you are, the less discriminating you are about what you eat.” (00:16)
• Deliverance without a follow-up plan is unkind and irresponsible, leaving people vulnerable to returning spirits “seven times worse.” (02:23, 40:23)
  • Quote: “It is often unkind and irresponsible for you to walk someone through deliverance without a plan of how to shepherd their soul afterwards. Because you’re setting them up to be worse off than they were before.” – Dr. Hallwell (40:23)

2. Soul Voids, Soul Wounds, and Counterfeit Intimacy

• Distinction:
  • Soul void: Absence of something you needed (e.g., parental affirmation).
  • Soul wound: Injury caused by events, traumas, or words.
• When these are unaddressed, people seek to fill them with substitutes—relationships, organizations, performance—leading to the production of “strange fruit.”
  • Real-life example: Hallwell’s own journey seeking affirmation through Greek life and performance. (08:24, 29:43)

3. Fruit as Byproduct of Partnership

• Fruit isn’t something you force; it emerges naturally from spiritual partnership. (11:33ff)
  • Key Scripture: John 15 - “Abide in me... and you will bear much fruit.”
  • Quote: “Fruit is actually the byproduct of partnership... where there’s consistent partnership with the Holy Spirit, you’ll see Galatians 5 – joy, peace, love. It comes as a byproduct of the partnership.” – Dr. Hallwell (12:52)
• Manufactured fruit (efforts without true abiding) is “strange fruit” and evidence of remaining under the curse. (15:06)
  • “If you have to try to be peaceful, it means you’re still under the curse.” – Dr. Hallwell (15:12)

4. Universal Law: Fruit Reveals the Root

• Matthew 7:16 “You will know them by their fruits” is not just about false prophets but is a universal spiritual law.
  • “Your fruit will always reveal your root. A person never needs to announce their spiritual condition. Your fruit announced it way before you did.” – Dr. Hallwell (16:13)
  • Bad fruit (anxiety, lust, perfectionism, bitterness) cannot simply be rebuked; the spiritual contract/partnership behind it must be broken. (20:16, 20:36)

5. Ministry, Gifting, and the Dangers of Counterfeit Fruit

• Many operate in ministry, perform well, but their fruit is not recognized in heaven because its root is self-validation, not love/abiding in Christ.
  • “You can have 20 years of ministry, and two of them count.” (31:32)
  • Gifting can create the “illusion that you’re healthy, and the whole time you’re dying.” (82:01)

6. Relational Responsibility and the Spirit of Cain

• God intends for us to be our brother’s/sister’s keeper—to actively participate in their healing, not just identify issues and move on.
  • “We have assumed the spirit of Cain when we walk around and claim that we are not our brother’s keeper.” – Ezekiel (56:37)
• We’re cautioned against being reactive (offended/offensive) rather than led by the Spirit; our reactions can reinforce bondage in others. (59:52–61:00)
  • “If you operate with love, joy, peace, long-suffering, self-control, when that thing happened, it wouldn’t have shifted you. That’s why God said, if you want to be in this ministry, you have to be unoffendable.” (60:38–60:43)

7. Practical Soul Healing and Assessment

• Hallwell introduces a comprehensive “fruit assessment” (see souldiscipleship.org), enabling individuals and churches to identify the real spiritual state behind outward behaviors.
  • Assessment focuses on when negative fruit appeared, what triggered it, lies believed, emotions permitted, and what spirits entered as a result. (88:58–89:43)
  • The solution is not to artificially try to “produce” the desired fruit, but to “reroot” in God for that area of lack. (101:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Manufacturing Fruit:
  “We in the Kingdom are so used to people manufacturing fruit that we don’t even know. We can’t even tell what is organic fruit now and what is actually manufactured fruit.” – Dr. Hallwell (13:32)

• On the Nature of Fruit:
  “Fruit is the echo of a spiritual contract. To change the sound, you have to break the contract.” – Dr. Hallwell (20:36)

• On Ministry Responsibility:
  “You have to be unoffendable. If all someone has to do is offend you, and now you can no longer carry out the Kingdom mandate, all the enemy has to do is have that person act out and your ministry is done.” (60:42)

• On Gifting vs. Fruit:
  “God is not impressed by your gifts. One of the illustrations I always talk about is… God’s gifts or giftings is not proof of His love for you. It’s proof that He’s generous and that He loves them through you.” (82:01–83:39)

• On Shepherding After Deliverance:
  “It’s sometimes even unkind to walk someone through deliverance if you don’t have a plan of how to help them disciple their soul afterwards… because empty houses always bring squatters.” (39:40–40:48)

• Abiding for Sustained Health:
  “There’s no shortcut in the Spirit. There’s no shortcut to discipline, no shortcut to maintaining your relationship with God.” (77:05)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Deliverance vs. Discipleship and the Need for Soul Healing: (00:00–08:17; 39:40–42:47)
• Fruit as the Expression of Spiritual Partnership: (11:24–18:08)
• Ministry and Root Issues in Leaders: (28:13–33:02)
• The Pastoral Grace and Shepherding the Soul: (36:07–38:28)
• Handling the Jezebel/Ahab Spirits and Soul Diagnostics: (66:51–74:03)
• Practical Steps for Soul Healing & The Fruit Assessment: (88:58–94:20)
• Closing Reflections and Prayer: (96:16–103:23)

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Practical Takeaways

• Do not seek to suppress negative fruit by willpower; uncover the root, break the agreement, and reroot in the truth of God’s Word.
• Healthy community and spiritual shepherding are essential for sustaining deliverance and soul healing.
• Assess the true fruit of your life with honesty; giftedness and outward busyness are not guarantees of spiritual health.
• Ministers, churches, and believers must make soul-care and discipleship a priority, not just deliverance moments.

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Resources Mentioned

• Soul Discipleship Community & Assessment Tools
• Dr. Hallwell’s upcoming book: Becoming Ahab (Expected Fall 2026)
• Practical “fruit assessments” now digitized for individuals and church leadership teams.

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Tone & Style

This episode was passionate, biblically rooted, and deeply practical. Both Ezekiel and Dr. Hallwell speak with a sense of urgency, care, and conviction, while offering gentle correction and hope. The dialogue is lively, honest, and full of both personal experience and theological reflection—making it resonant for leaders, laypeople, and anyone wrestling with cycles of struggle in their faith journey.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode is a must for anyone who has felt stuck after deliverance, is in ministry, or hungers for deeper authenticity and fruitfulness in their walk with God. It will challenge, equip, and inspire listeners to go beyond surface-level spirituality and enter into true soul transformation.

Transcript

[A]

People would walk through deliverance. Six months later, I see them right back. The spiritual bondage has been removed. But you never close the door to what put them in bondage in the first place.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

We remove the bondage, but we never address the counterfeit intimacy. When you don't turn to God to fill that wound, your soul starts searching for where can I get it from?

[B]

The hungrier you are, the less discriminating you are about what you eat.

[A]

Why is this happening? When you have misdiagnosed roots, you never know what to do with the fruit. So fruit is actually the byproduct of partnership.

[B]

Meaning if I see a baby bump on a woman and I see the woman with a man sitting in the living room, I don't gotta really ask much questions. I can tell that there was partnership that happened between her and somebody else.

[A]

Where there's partnership with flesh, with wounds, with demonic influence. You're gonna see a different type of fruit. We call that strange fruit. I don't have to try to produce peace. It comes as a byproduct of my relationship with the Prince of Peace. We in the kingd are so used to people manufacturing fruit, we can't even tell what is organic fruit now and what is actually manufactured. You will know them by their fruit. Jesus wasn't giving us a tool to identify false prophets. He was giving us a universal spiritual law. The fruit that I see emanating from your life and you're not producing the type of fruit that resonates with the kingdom, then you're in trouble of being casted into the fire. Anxiety is a fruit. Chronic lust is a fruit. Bitterness is a fruit. Perfectionism is a fruit. You cannot cast out a fruit. You must break the agreement that produced it. Okay, The FDA of Heaven. The Food Drug Administration. Right, the faith distinction agency of heaven. Looking at your fruit and saying, this fruit came from faith. You could have 20 years of ministry and two of them count.

[B]

I'mma either rebuke. I'm going to either cast them out. Never in my life will I say, how did they get here? Now we're over here trying to diagnose someone who has a spirit of Jezebel.

[A]

Him or her have actually been sedentari produced by the spirit of Jezebel. What was going on in your soul that even made Jezebel appealing to you? You should cast out Jezebel. But then what do you do with the soul that had a vacuum because they had a need? Avoid that one unfill and they didn't know how to fill it. And sometimes it's even unkind to walk someone through deliverance if you don't have a plan of how to help them disciple their soul afterwards.

[B]

Okay, say it a little louder.

[A]

You're setting them up for seven times worse than they just left.

[B]

He called Lazarus from the dead, called him out of the grave, and Lazarus came forth. But then he assigned Lazarus to the individuals around him to loose him from the bandages. We have assumed the spirit of Cain when we walk around and claim that we are not our brother's keeper. I only know how to engage with flesh and blood. And then I forfeit my responsibility to loose you from what the Lord assigned

[A]

me to loose you from.

[B]

And the Lord reveals himself to me. This is not a podcast.

[A]

This is a deliverance ministry. God is going to deliver just as

[B]

many, if not more, here than he

[A]

does inside of church buildings. You got to keep giving yourself over to it. It's proving it to you over and over. And the weightiness of your anointing. The Lord says thousands will be delivered.

[B]

It's an honor for me once again, to have my brother back in the room. This is a man that we. We met just, like haphazardly, or so someone would say. God has strategically placed you in my life to be an anchor, to be a pillar. You're part of my personal intercessory team, someone who can speak life into me, to encourage me, to drop revelations onto me like you always do. And I just want to say thank you for being in my life, but also man of God. You'll be teaching that word, man. I said, I gotta have you back to share something that you shared with our community. We could talk a little bit about that when this is over. And I'm just like, we gotta have you back just to just share that, because it changed my life. And so, once again, I want to introduce to some and reintroduce to many others, Dr. Robert Hallwell. Man, thank you so much for being with me, bro.

[A]

Hey, man, it's a pleasure to be here again, man.

[B]

I said, doctor, because the way you

[A]

dress, man, you look like.

[B]

All right, man. So I'm not even going to waste any time if you guys don't know his testimony. Please. I'm going to put the link in the description so you guys can see this man has come out of darkness. I mean, he was bound. There was no. He was not turning, turning away from it. He even wrote a book that God gave him to deal with the principalities as it relates to the Greek organizations. And things of that sort. If you've never watched that episode, trust me, it's a must watch. Because he didn't just stop there. He started to talk about soul wounds. And I hope he gets into it a little bit today. Today I'm just going to release you. How the Lord put it on your heart. He's talking about fruit and how you can trace the essence of a fruit back to its root. He's going to describe kingdom fruit, but then also the other side of what fruit looks like. And so I'm just going to release you, man. Let the Lord have his way in you, bro.

[A]

Man, thank you so much. It's been such an amazing journey. I mean, I think even since my last time here on the podcast and what God has allowed to happen and all the testimonies that have came from just that podcast. And I'm just blessed to be able to share and for God to be able to use me in the way that he's been using me. One of the things, it's always interesting when you kind of know yourself, right? And you know, the things that you want to fix, you know, the things that you want, you know, you're still kind of laying before the Lord and then for God to be able to speak through you, you know, I'm just like, I'm just robbed. You see what I'm saying? And so. But then to see what God is able to do through me and through soul discipleship, we have a community that's about a thousand people now that's walking through soul wounds, getting healed from soul voids, and able to actually get their soul restored, restored so that they can, as Psalms 23 through 5:1:5 says, like, you know, he. He restores my soul, then he leads me in the path of righteousness for his name's sake. And seeing so many people get their soul restored, it's definitely been a blessing.

[B]

How do you. How do you get a part of that community? You could just.

[A]

Sure. So we're actually launching soul discipleship.org org where you can actually register to become part of the community. And as. As a little bit of what I. Or we'll speak about today to do the fruit assessment. Right. And so one of the things that I realized as I was helping walk people through deliverance, not only just through deliverance, but one of the things that I was seeing, and I think I mentioned last time, is that people would walk through deliverance, and then six months later, I'd see them right again. I'd see them right back. And I started praying. I was like, okay, God, how do we have the fruit remain, right? We, like, you know, I got tired of seeing people get their full deliverance but not be able to maintain their deliverance.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

And I said, okay, something else is happening, right? When you could walk out free, but then not have the tools, not be equipped to maintain the deliverance that you received. And so then God started speaking to me. He said, it's soul discipleship, right? The spiritual bondage has been removed, right? The stronghold has been removed. But you never close the door to what put them in bondage in the first place.

[B]

Let's go, let's talk.

[A]

And so. And so, soul discipleship. God started saying to me that a lot of these people have soul voids. They have soul wounds, right? Their soul was thirsting for something, just like the woman at the well who was thirsting for things that couldn't sacrifice. Satisfied, right? Her thirst and her inability to find this true water, the living water that can fill her thirst. So she started looking for counterfeit intimacy, right? And it was through the counterfeit intimacy that she was reaching for, through the sin that actually created the bondage. And so many times through deliverance, we heal, we remove the bondage. But we never addressed the counterfeit intimacy. We never addressed the voids that she was. That she was. That she had in her life. We never say, hey, there was actually a legitimate need here.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

Right? There was a need that she didn't know how to get filled, right? She didn't know how to get filled. And so because there was a need, she had a void. And a void is always gonna. It's always gonna be a vacuum to be filled, right? It's a void is a vacuum of the soul, right?

[B]

Explain that part right there. Right there.

[A]

Okay, so. So let's say, for example. And I'll give you an example, say if you grew up without a father.

[B]

Yes?

[A]

Right? And so the love and the affirmation that you normally get and the identity that a father speaks into you, right? That comes from. From the authority that God gives. Speak into the child.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Right? And so when there's an absence of that, right? The soul is still longing for that. The soul is long to say, wait, where's that affirmation that I didn't get? Where's that? Where's that? That. That. That authority, that identity? And so your soul starts looking, right? And when. There's no when. And we call that a wound, right? There's a soul wound and there's a soul void. Okay. A soul void is when there's something that you didn't get that you should have had. Okay? A soul wound. When is when there's an injury, okay? So just to make that distinction, so let's start with soul voids. Okay? So a soul void is when your father should have been there, he should have spoke into you, but he didn't, right? So now your soul is looking for that place to be filled. When. When there's not. When. When you don't turn to the Lord, when you don't turn to God to fill that wound, your soul starts searching for, where can I get it from? Where can I get it from? And you will fill it with anything. That's why some people fill it with Greek life, right? They're looking for identity. This will give me identity. This will give me the affirmation, right? That was my story, right? I so desperately wanted brotherhood. I so desperately wanted, you know, to figure out. I felt like I was looking for how to. How to be successful, but I didn't know how to get there.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

And then something came along and said, you know what? I'll help you do that. I'll help you be successful. I'll help you get identity. Look at mlk. You want to be great like mlk. He was great. Come join us. Right? And the soul void was speaking so loudly that it grabbed onto it.

[B]

So you said something came along and you reached out for it. It reminds me, I don't want to interrupt you, but it reminds me of hunger. Like, the hungrier you are, the less discriminating you are about what you eat.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And so I don't find myself in a line at a particular place that I swore I would never go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At the fast food line at this place. I called my wife and she said, where you at? I'm like, I'm at. What's the name? You know what she said? You must be really hungry.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And so that soul wound, the deeper it is, the greater it is, the less discriminating you are about what you fill it with. But go ahead, man.

[A]

No, exactly, exactly. And so I started just like, praying about it. Like, okay, God, how do we feel? And so that's when he started giving me, like this almost formula, right? And it's using biblical scripture to have people to assess, okay, what's going on in your life? Right. What fruit are you seeing in your life? Right. And for me, I. For so long, there was fruit that was being developed in my life, but I would see the result of it. But I never was able to trace it back, right? To like, why is this happening? Right? There's a scripture that David says, why am I like this? Right? Like, why am I like this? And so many times we see the behaviors that are being produced in people, but we never stop to say, okay, we see the fruit that's happening, right? But what is actually the root of where it's coming from?

[B]

My goodness.

[A]

Right? And so many times we misdiagnose roots, right? When you have misdiagnosed roots, you never know what to do with the fruit.

[B]

Wait, explain, man. That's why I'd be like, slow down. What does that mean?

[A]

So let's get to it, all right? We're going to start from the beginning, okay? Because most believers, right? They will define themselves by the fruit, okay? By the fruit that they see in their lives, right? Behaviors, habits, reactions, emotions, right? But they really ever slow down to say, okay, what spirit is this fruit coming from? Okay? If you look at John 15, right? Scripture never causes to actually produce fruit, okay? Scriptures never tells us to produce fruit, that we should be producing fruit, all right? John 15, 4 and 5, it says, abide in me, and I will abide in you, and you will bear much fruit. Okay? So fruit is actually the byproduct of partnership, okay? Right? Fruit is not an achievement, okay? It is the byproduct of partnership, okay? Where there's consistent partnership with the Holy Spirit, you'll see Galatians, right? Five, right? It becomes your natural overflow. You naturally will have joy. You naturally will have peace. You naturally will have love. It comes as a byproduct of the partnership.

[B]

Do y' all hear what this man just said? He said fruit is a byproduct of partnership. Meaning if I see a baby bump on a woman and I see the woman with a man sitting in the living room, I don't got to really ask much questions. I don't have to diagnose. I can tell that there was partnership that happened between her and somebody else, and this is the result of the partnership.

[A]

Exactly. Exactly. Right? But where there's partnership with flesh, with wounds, with demonic influence, you're going to see a different type of fruit be produced.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

All right. A different kind. We call that strange fruit, okay? You start seeing strange food, and the reality is that we start seeing strange fruit all around the kingdom, and we mislabel it, right? Without. Without really understanding. Wait, you're not just super angry? You're not just super stressed? You're not just filled with anxiety? No, no, no, there's a root to that thing, right? There's a partnership that you haven't identified, okay? And when you start identifying that, every fruit that you see, right? There's not going to be any fruit that you see in this natural world that's going to be produced by itself. All right? Show me one fruit in nature that's produced that didn't come from a root. I'll wait. Okay. Any fruit that you see is the fruit is the byproduct of a relationship, okay? Is the byproduct of something down deeper, right? And so many people, I'll say like this, I don't have to try to produce peace, okay? It comes as a byproduct of my relationship with the Prince of Peace, right? If you're constantly anxious, come on, man, where is that coming from?

[B]

A partnership.

[A]

A partnership. And when we hear Jesus say in the Book of John that if you abide in me and I abide in you, then you will bear much fruit, right? This is him echoing Genesis right before the fall, okay? Because he's actually bringing us back to Eden.

[B]

There it is.

[A]

Right? When you see Adam in the garden, right? Fruit was. Was plentiful.

[B]

Come on, man.

[A]

Right? Originally, fruit was plentiful. He didn't have to try to originally make any food or produce fruit. All he had to do was abide, commune with the Lord, okay? With him being in constant community with the Lord. Fruit was in abundance, all right? It's not until Genesis 3 that we actually see right after the fall, when he actually is broken in community and in communion with the Lord. You hear God say, now by the sweat of your brow will fruit be produced from the ground, okay? So you having to manufacture fruit actually comes with a curse. You have to try to be peaceful means that you're still under the curse. You have to try to have love means that you're actually under the curse. You have to try, you know what I'm saying? To have joy that's good is actually being under the curse. And that's why when Jesus comes, he comes to reinstate us back to the community we are supposed to have, where you just abide in me, I abide in you. And fruit comes naturally.

[B]

Thank you, Lord.

[A]

Right? And that's what so many people are misunderstanding. And so when you start saying, you know what? I just feel myself getting so frustrated. It's time to start checking what's going on with those roots, right? It's that time to start checking, right? What's happening on the inside, right? Because if you're exhausted by trying to be peaceful. It means that you're manufacturing peace. And the reality is that we don't even know how to identify fruit, what fruit is real and what fruit is gmo, okay? We in the Kingdom are so used to people manufacturing fruit that we don't even know. We can't even tell what is organic fruit now and what is actually manufactured fruit. Okay? But like I said, fruit always reveals partnership, all right? And so in Matthew 7, 16, 20, right? Jesus said, you will know them by their fruit. Okay? So here Jesus just wasn't giving us a tool to identify false prophets, okay? He was giving us a universal spiritual law, all right? That fruit always reveals the root, okay? Your fruit will always reveal your root. Right? A person never needs to announce me their spiritual addition. Let me say that again. A person never needs to announce their spiritual condition, all right? Your fruit announced it way before you did, okay? People never need to. No one ever needs to come to me. Like, I'm a Christian. I'm a believer. I'm spending time with the Holy Spirit, the fruit that I see emanating from your life. Thank you, Lord. Right. Will tell me exactly how much time you spend with the Holy Spirit. The Bible even says like this, right? You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles?

[B]

Even?

[A]

So, every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

[B]

Fruit.

[A]

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Listen, a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. That's Bible. So if you see corrupted fruit coming out, you'll know where it comes from, all right? Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit henceforth is cast into the fire. That right there should put a tremble in everybody, okay? Because God is literally saying, if I'm looking at you and you're not producing the type of fruit that resonates with the kingdom, then you're in trouble of being casted into the fire.

[B]

And I think some people. What's tripping some people out is because when they hear the fruit conversation, what they hear is works. And the way I describe fruit, which is in alignment with what you're saying is fruit has more to do with identity. Fruit is literally. Biologically, it is the expression or the outward manifestation. Manifestation of the essence of its origin. Meaning, if I want to understand an orange, I just look at the tree. Or if I want to understand the tree, I look at the orange. They're interconnected by their relationship in the same way. Fruit has more to do with Who I am. And so why that branch is being cut off and thrown away is not because they're not doing all the right things. It's because there is no DNA genetic evidence that. That verifies and substantiates its identity.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You're not a branch.

[A]

Right. Right. Of the tree that you're supposed to be part of that tree. Okay. You're not a branch of that tree. Right. Many believers only rebuke the. And this is what I see so much in soul discipleship. When people that are just coming in, a lot of times they see the fruit in their life and they're trying to rebuke the fruit. Okay? Anxiety is a fruit. Rage is a fruit. Chronic lust is a fruit. Right?

[B]

What?

[A]

Bitterness is a fruit. Okay? Perfectionism is a fruit. Right. Emotional numbness is a fruit. Okay? You cannot cast out a fruit. Right. You must break the agreement that produced it.

[B]

Okay? May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the sweet fellowship of his Holy Spirit. That enough?

[A]

Yeah. Because this is the thing. Fruit is the echo of a spiritual contract. Okay. To change the sound, you have to break the contract. Okay. To break how you're sounding in the spirit, you have to break the contract, you have to break the agreement. What are you agreeing with? That's good. Okay. And this is the thing, okay. One of the things. And we can get. It goes so deep, okay? Fruit determines fruitfulness.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

What do I mean by that? Okay. The fruit that you have in your character, love, joy, peace, long suffering, you know, self control. Right? That. That is the fruit of your character, right? And you having and maintaining by abiding in God. The fruit determines how fruitful you'll be in the kingdom. Right. And so that's why, you see, you were talking about, like, works, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The scripture, Matthew 7:16, it says, do men gather grapes of thorns? Right. That means that you may be gifted, right? You may have a talent. But if there's something in my spirit that I need. Right? But the fruitfulness is missing from your life. The fruits of the spirit, the love, joy, peace is missing from your life. That means that even though you may have what I need, I'm not going to go to you from it because I'm not going to go and get nourishment from someone that's also thorny. I'm not going to gather, even though I see that, hey, there's something in you that, that. That I may need. There's mentorship in you that I. You actually have a word. You Actually have the prophetic gifting that I need to take me to the next level. But guess what? I'm not going to gather grapes from thorns, okay? I'm not going to get figs of thistles. And so many people are saying, well, you know, they'll see people that is rejecting. Right. The words that they have. They'll see people that's rejecting their ministry. Maybe it's not the ministries that they're rejecting. Maybe it's the fruit that comes along with it. Maybe the fact that you're not producing the fruits of the spirit. Right? And so every time I come to you, I'm not actually getting peace, right? Because that's what's actually what's attractive, right? That's actually what people. People are looking for. Right. There's so many people that's in ministry that they have the wisdom, they have the knowledge, they have the spirit, the spiritual knowledge. But when it comes, when I. When I get close to you, what do I get? I get anxiousness, I get. I get aggression, I get anger. Right? And so you know what? I'd rather just figured out from God myself than have to deal with all of the malformed fruit that comes off of your life.

[B]

Why that's so important, bro, that's powerful. Because God has literally assigned you to people's lives to be a nourishment, to be a source of consumption. There's something I need to get from God, from your life. And the more I lean in or I keep God's hand from pruning me and dealing with these issues that are in my life and dealing with the root in my life, then I am a walking conducer or conductor of famine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People are dying around me. Not because they're just dying out of individual, like because my assignment, I'm failing in my assignment of producing what was necessary for my wife. I'm failing in my assignment for producing what's necessary for my community. I'm failing in my assignment for producing in the areas that God have assigned me to. So if I see death around me, I must question retroactively, am I not nourishing the environment that God assigned me to?

[A]

It reminds me in the Old Testament, the priestly garments, okay, they had fruit and they had bells. Okay. And it rotated. It had fruit, bell. I believe it was pomegranates. Right. They had fruit. A bell. Fruit bell. Fruit bell. Right. And one. In the New Testament, the fruit symbolizes the fruits of the spirit that they were supposed to carry. Right. The bells represented that there was movement but what happened is that when they went into the Holy of Holies, everyone couldn't go there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right? And so as the priests moved about, they would hear the bells ringing, right? And they would know that the priest was still being active.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay. That they didn't die in their assignments, right? If the bells stopped, they know that there was no more movement, okay? And so as the bells move. But the thing about it is that the bells were never supposed to clang together, right? They would hit the fruit, right? And it would make the sound. The sound it was supposed to make, right? And that's why in the New Testament it says that if you have not love, which is the fruit of the spirit, you are just a what, a clanging symbol?

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Do you see what I'm saying? Do you see the connection? Right? And so many times, right? If you.

[B]

You can. You can.

[A]

You can have the fruit and no movement, right? There's many people that are lovely people, but not doing anything active in the Kingdom.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Okay? They don't make. There's no sound in the Kingdom, right? They're not making any movement. They're just. You know what? I'm just here to love me and my family and that's it.

[B]

Have mercy.

[A]

Not actually doing anything to progress the kingdom forward, okay? There's no sound that they're making, right? Then there's some people that there's a lot of. There's a lot of movement. No fruit.

[B]

No fruit.

[A]

No fruit, right? And so heaven never intended for you just to make noise in the Kingdom.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Okay? It never. And that's why I said you can do. You can prophesy, you can do all these things, but if you don't have love.

[B]

Come on, man.

[A]

All right. If you don't have the fruits of the spirit, right? It means nothing.

[B]

Come on, man.

[A]

All right? Because people need both to be impacted, right? To be as effective and efficient as God intended you to be. He intended you to have both. He intended you to have both. And one of the things that really, it's always a check to me, it is the fact that fruit is so necessary because you can. You can go 20 years. Oh, my God. Doing things for the kingdom.

[B]

Come on, man. Come on, man.

[A]

Doing things for the Kingdom, only to find out that it meant nothing to Heaven, okay? You can be doing so much work, and this. This why I always tell people in soul discipleship, right? It is so important to get your soul voids and soul wounds filled, right? Because you. You will always Minister and be and move based on not what you do, but based on who you are.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay. And the reason why we have so much strange fruit happening in the kingdom is because there's those places, Right. That people are partnering with other spirits because they haven't got those places filled. All right, I'll give you an example. Okay. And I want all the ministers, if you're in ministry, I want you to hear this, okay. And I want you to really just. And we do these things called soul assessments. Yes, Right. Because it is so important that you understand and you know what fruit is being produced in your life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. It is so important that you are able to understand, hey, I'm producing something, I'm making movement in the kingdom. But is it the type of fruit that heaven is going to sign off on? Right, The FDA of Heaven. The FDA of Heaven. Right. The, you know, we call it the Food Drug Administration. Right. The. The. The Faith Distinction Agency of Heaven. Right. Is it looking at your fruit and saying, this fruit came from faith. Okay. This fruit came from faith of abiding in me. I'm gonna give you an example of how it all ties together. Okay, let's use the example from before. Right? Say if you say if you had fatherlessness.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. So now your soul is crying out for affirmation, is crying out for identity. You have these gifts. Oh, you know what, I can prophesy. You know what, you know, I can speak very well. I'm very articulate. I can grab a message. Right. So you start studying the Bible. Right. But then when you start using your gifts, you're not using them with the purity of heart to see the kingdom move forward. You're using it for self validation.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Okay. And so every time you go to minister to someone, what you're really looking for them is to validate you. So I'm going to pray for you. Okay. I'm going to minister to you. But at the end of the day, I need you to come back and say, that was a great word. I need you to come back and say, you know what? You know, you are so powerful. You are so anointed, you are so gifted. Have mercy. And so what's coming out is that I stopped performing. I start having performance based ministry. Because what I'm really doing, instead of abiding in God to get all those places full, I'm actually getting my soul filled because I'm using the validation that you give me from the ministry. Right. To actually fill my soul.

[B]

That's good, bro.

[A]

Okay. And so what starts happening is that strange fruit starts getting produced.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Right. Because the place that I should be partnering with the Holy Spirit for affirmation. Right. I now have to partner with something else. And it's. Right. And it starts. It starts starting to build up in your life. You start seeing it start to manifest in different ways in your life.

[B]

Mercy God.

[A]

All right? That's when you start. You start having. And this. The thing.

[B]

Thing.

[A]

This. This is not something that. That I read in a book. This is something that. That I lived out.

[B]

Come on, man.

[A]

Okay. I have a book that's called Becoming Ahab.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay. That. That I'm going to drop later this fall.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

And. And for so long in my life, I didn't even realize that I. I was. I was a people pleaser, right? I was. I was a people pleaser because I was looking for affirmation. I was looking for identity. I was looking for all these things that if I had really just was fully abiding in God. Okay. But then I started realizing I started seeing things, you know, you know, broken relationship manifest in my life. I started seeing, like, you know, me do all these things. And it was just these strange fruit that I was seeing be produced. I'm like, okay, well, I felt like I did all the right things, but I wasn't seeing the type of fruit that should have come from the work that I was putting in.

[B]

Uh.

[A]

Oh, right. And the thing about it is that many times we misdiagnose fruit. There's a lot of spirits and partnerships that. That actually look good on the surface. Okay. Especially. And I'll say Ahab. Right? Ahab would be a great servant leader. He will appear to be a great servant leader because he's always going to be looking for affirmation from the leader. So he'll be the person that's on time, that will show up early and leave late. Right. But it's not at a place of, okay, am I really doing this to serve God? It's really, you know what? I need the affirmation from the people that's around me. All right? So the whole time I'm serving, it's. It's. I'm serving for. For the validation of my soul. And guess what? So all that fruit that's being produced is strange heaven saying, oh, even if it had kingdom impact, it came from the wrong place. Rejected. Rejected, Rejected.

[B]

Hmm.

[A]

Right. And so it makes you do a self check. Oh, all right. Because you can. You can have 20 years of ministry and two of them count Right? This is why in the Bible talks about your work's going to be what tried in the fire.

[B]

Have mercy, God.

[A]

All right? Imagine you have 30 years of ministry being tried in the fire, right? And as it's going up, that's straw, that's wood, right? You have these big ministry looking things built up, up. It's all wood. And as soon as it goes in the fire, it gets burnt up. As soon as it goes in the fire, it can't sustain, right? And so, so many people that I'm seeing, I'll say about 70% of the people that's in soul discipleship right now, what are they, what are they doing? They're actually ministers, really. They're actually people in ministry that have said, you know what? I see areas in my life that I'm not healed, right? Look around. You could look around in the kingdom right now and see so many people that are in ministry and you'd be like, oh, that person's rude. Yeah, that person's gifted, but they don't know how to talk to people, right? That person's anointed, but they lack love. That person's anointed, but they don't have self control.

[B]

Wow. Come on, man.

[A]

Right? All those, we try to use pretty words for them and a lot of times we will overlook them for the

[B]

sake of their gift.

[A]

For the sake of their gift. Because we need the gift, right? We want the gift. But what about their soul, right? Because you will overlook their soul for the sake of the gift, you will overlook the state of their soul. And to be honest, there's so many ministries that are, are not equipped to deal with people's souls, right? We have a lot of ministries that's, that, that, that, that are great at identifying. Okay, but now that you, now that you've identified Jezebel, now what, okay, she has the spirit of Jezebel. Now what, what you going to do, right? Do you understand that, why the spirit of Jezebel was even tempting to that person, right? You can, you can cast out Jezebel, but if you don't, if you don't understand that, okay, there was a fear because they went through trauma growing up, and because they went through trauma growing up, now they feel like I need to control everything and everything around me so that I can feel safe. And there's a place in their soul that needs safety. But when they come to you, all they get is the. And so everything that you're giving them actually is the exact opposite of what their soul actually needs.

[B]

Okay, what you just said right now we have to go down this path. Because I don't think you guys are listening to what he just said. Because if someone with a spirit of Jezebel arises in any framework, in any ministry at that point, that's an enemy, and we got to deal with the enemy accordingly. And what we have become in ministry is reactive. And so in the same way, we're only able to see gifts, we're only able to see fruit, but we cannot see roots. And we don't care to see root because the root is intangible. It takes work to get to the root. You got to go under or beneath the surface to get to the root. And if I'm reactive, then I'm really only reactive to the expression, right? And I'm not dealing with, with the real issue, which makes me unproductive, and it makes me. Now I'm operating outside of the assignment of God for my life because it's possible that God's allowing us to see this fruit for the sake of dealing with that root. Meaning, like, even with the kids. I always talk about this as it relates to kids. We are not called to be parents that are reactive to the tantrums of our kids, but rather to investigate what the tantrum is. If my baby is crying, I'm checking a diaper, I'm checking the temperature. I'm saying, what's wrong? You hungry? But we don't do that with other individuals. It's like you're crying. Imagine that every time a baby cried, you slapped them. Every time a baby had a tantrum, you kicked them across the room. This is who we are as a ministry. So when I see the outburst, when I see somebody operate in a way, and I see that spirit of Jezebel, that's spirit of Ahab, I'mma either rebuke, I'm going to either cast them out, I'm either ostracize, I'm going to treat them funny. But never in my life will I say, how did they get here?

[A]

How do they get there? And, and, and, and that's one of the things I've been. Because, because it's almost like if I identify Jezebel, just kick him out, right? It's pretty easy to do with that, right? It's, it's. And it's easy. But I'm like, is. Is any. Is. Is there anyone with a Jezebel spirit that God intends to redeem? Is, Is there anybody, right, that has one of these, these spirits that God is saying, okay, you know what? I I, I'm sending someone. And this is why I. Thank you, Lord Jesus. In this iteration, I feel like the pastoral grace is coming back in the fullest effect. Okay. And I believe that there's dispensations, and I believe that there are seasons that different graces take the forefront. For example, you know, there's apostolic movements where God's trying to take the body of Christ to another position and they have to pioneer and dig it out. Right? And so there are seasons where you see certain graces come to the forefront, right? And they start kind of leading the, the kingdom. I think in this next season, one of the, the greatest graces that are going to be nested, necessary is the pastoral grace. People that are, that can, can shepherd the souls of men. Right? The, the pastoral grace. I think sometimes people just think that. Pastor. The, the. And I'm, when I say pastoral grace, I'm not just talking about, well, you got to the highest point in the organization and so they call you a pastor. That's not what I'm talking about. About, okay, a shepherding. Okay, but, but I'm talking about the, the gifting of a pastor, right? So the Bible talks about how the shepherd knows the, the state of his, of his flock, right? That when people that have a pastoral grace, you could come like, you, like, if people, if someone comes in my vicinity, I, I immediately start picking up what's going on in their soul, right? It's, it's almost like it starts speaking. They'll, they, they'll, they'll come near me and they'll, and I'll say, how you doing? They'll be like, I'm fine. And I'm like, but you could. If there's a weightiness to it, you begin to discern immediately. No, there's something else going on in your soul. Yes, right. There's something else that's going on. That, that, that, that. And I see it so many times. I'll be walking with someone and I say, hey, how you doing? They'll be like, good. And I'll be like, no, no, how you really doing? And, and, and you just, you just see them start to crumble, right? And, and that's, that's the pastoral grace. That's good. Right? And in this season, because there are so many people in the kingdom that are operating in high levels of ministry, but what they really need is shepherding.

[B]

Stop right there. Someone would argue and say, but in Revelation, it said, I have this against you. You tolerated that woman Jezebel. When some people hear the pastoral Grace. All they're hearing is cheap grace. And it's saying, hey, when you see a demonic force, you deal with it. You see, with a witch suffer. Not a witch to live. You see, Jezebel, you tolerate Jezebel. No, we're supposed to be intolerant of that woman Jezebel. So how do you reconcile a scripture that tells us to deal harshly with spirits? And now we're over here trying to diagnose someone who has a spirit of Jezebel?

[A]

All right, so is Jezebel the person of the spirit? Okay, Jezebel, the person is partnering with the spirit of Jezebel. She's actually. They have actually him or her have actually been seduced by the spirit of Jezebel. Right? And so when we talk about getting to the root of something, we're getting to the root of what was going on in your soul that even made Jezebel appealing to you. Because we can cast out Jezebel, and you should cast out Jezebel. Right? But then what do you do with the soul that had a vacuum because they had a need? Avoid that one unfilling. They didn't know how to fill it.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

All right, so. So how do you. How do you shepherd them after the deliverance, after you cast out Jezebel? I agree. Cast out Jezebel, but she'll be right back if you don't heal that soul. And guess what? She'll be back with spirit seven times worse. And so that's why we see so many cyclical deliverance. It's like a revolving door. Revolving door, right? And sometimes it's if you. If Lord grace me. Right? I say like this. It's even. Sometimes it's even unkind to walk someone through deliverance if you don't have a plan of how to help them disciple their soul afterwards.

[B]

Okay, Say it a little louder for the people in the back.

[A]

Okay. It is often unkind.

[B]

Irresponsible.

[A]

Irresponsible, Right. For you to walk someone through deliverance without a plan of how to shepherd their soul afterwards. Because you're setting them up. Up to be worse off than they were before. You're setting them up for seven times worse than they just left that other thing that just left them to come back. When. When you.

[B]

When you.

[A]

When all you're doing is cleaning houses and then move on to the next person, all you're doing is tidying the house for. For the next group of demons to come in. If you. If you don't understand how to help that person get filled. Right. Because empty houses always bring squatters. And you cannot, we cannot be, have, just have deliverance ministries that all we're doing is creating more empty houses to be filled by greater squatters.

[B]

So you're saying it should be mandatory to make sure that deliverance. Well, I don't even want to say because I think we're separating deliverance from discipleship. Well, and I think that's an unnecessary.

[A]

Well, some do, though. Some people do. Right. When, when people come to me. And that's why for me, whenever, say, I get emails all the time, hey, can you walk me through deliverance? I say what church you go to. Right? Because before I even walk you through deliverance, I have to understand that after you go through this moment of deliverance, you have a place to go.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Right? And now that's why I even require people to go through soul discipleship before I walk them through deliverance. No, you have to even understand what is the soul voids, what are the soul wounds, what are you partnering with before I even will walk you through deliverance.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

You see what I'm saying? So by the time you go through deliverance, you're already equipped with the tools of how to close the door to the enemy so that you don't become prey to what you just got delivered from.

[B]

That's so good, man.

[A]

You understand? And like I said, this is an area I feel, I'm so passionate about it because I see the results of people that have went through deliverance and then they come back and before they were dealing with something this small, and now they're dealing with something so much greater than they were dealing with originally. Right? And in the kingdom, we have to start understanding, Wait, God made us body, soul and spirit.

[B]

Come on, man.

[A]

Right. And he intends to heal the whole person. Right? He intends to heal the whole person.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Right? And can we be an embassy? Can we be an epicenter of whole soul deliverance, of whole body deliverance, where the whole person is getting delivered?

[B]

Oh my gosh, brother. I, I, I almost don't even want to say any more words here because the say lot is so necessary. I don't want, I don't want people to miss what you just what you just brought. Everyone that is in ministry, everyone that leads a church, everybody's getting excited about the demons and the demons fleeing. But the Lord said, don't even be tripping about that. Be excited that your names are now written in the book of life. So even Jesus realizes that the casting out of demons is a Secondary matter.

[A]

Secondary? Yeah, bro. Because you have to understand, right? It is, it is a secondary matter. And I think the reason why it is so important is because you have to realize that the, the, the issues that were happening in the person's life even before the demons came, right? The demons is just the capstone, right? There are people, There are people. You can be suffering and have ailments and have soul wounds and not have a demon, right? So let me just walk you through. Okay? So for example, say, and I use this example often, say if you were a child, right? Five years old. And because many times when we're walking people through deliverance, most times you'll see the injury first started when they were very, very young, that the enemy loves to attack when someone is, is still a child, okay? And someone says, hey, you know what? You're ugly, you're awkward, you're five and six. You're ugly, you're awkward. No one's ever going to love you, okay? That, that five year old hears that lie, okay? They hear that statement, okay? And so there's an injury there, right? When there's an injury that, that goes unpasted, unshepherded, unfathered. Because normally if something happens with my five year old, she'll come and say, a six year old. Now my son is six, he'll come and say, daddy, someone called me stupid. Someone called me ugly. I said, you're not stupid. You're not. Don't even. They, they're just, they're just hating. They're just X, Y and Z, right? And so what would have been an injury? Because there was a, there was a father there, there was someone, there was a pastor there, there was a shepherd there, right? That that injury was able to heal. Yes, right? When there's an injury that goes uncovered, unsheparded, on and unstewed, right? The person says, wait, that may be true. So, so the, the injury happens and then the lie gets internalized, received and come.

[B]

Came into agreement with.

[A]

Gets received and come into agreement, agreement with, okay? And they start saying, maybe I am ugly. They start rehearsing and meditating it. Maybe, maybe I am ugly. Maybe I'm stupid. Maybe I'll never be. Be anything. The enemy smells blood in the water. I smell an injury, right? I smell an injury that, that, that is being uncovered, that is unfathered, that is unshepherded, right? And so the enemy will start so that, that's just an injury. And, and if there was never any demonic influence, right? Say if a demon never came along to partner with it. That person will still walk along with low self esteem, right? They will still walk around with a voice saying, you know what? I wish I could. You know, I wish I could be this. I wish I could be that. Right?

[B]

And it might not be an internal conscious rehearsing of that, but the reaction or the defense mechanism against that, which is now, oh, they said this. Well, I'm about to live my life and build my life as a response to the injury.

[A]

To the injury.

[B]

I'm gonna overcompensate for my limp.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Why you walk like that? They don't know that I'm limping. Why you talk like that? Why you so hard? Well, you don't know. I'm trying to put on this facade.

[A]

I'm trying to overcompensate for the lie that I believed in my soul, right? Because once that. Once you have an agreement in your soul, Agreements govern the soul.

[B]

Whoa, chills.

[A]

Okay. What you come into agreement with will govern your soul, right? And in that area of your life, it will determine how you respond. It will determine. That's why the Bible says, because your soul is your heart, mind and emotions, right? And that's why the Bible says out of the. The abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks, right? It says all of the issues of life flow from where, right? From the heart, right? All of the issues of life. Why? Because the soul, right, Is where is the governing body of your entity. It is the governing body. And I can speak about this from the priesthood. We won't even go there. Okay, right. So now there's something that's governing your soul now, because the enemy sees, okay? There's a wound here that's untreated, right? Then there's a spirit that says, hey, you know what? I can help you moderate that. I can help you make sure that no one ever bothers you again. If you partner with me, I'll give you safety, I'll protect you, right? What's that spread? Anger. Anger, resentment, bitterness, right? And so the person comes into agreement with that spirit. And so, right? So then the person I used to get picked on, they start having a spirit of anger. They start walking around, say something else. Say something to me. What you gonna do? Right? So they intimidate everyone around them. No one picks on them, no one bothers them, but they, they partnered with a spirit, and now it's bondage, right? So now they walk around angry. The fruit that's been produced is anger. People see anger, people see irritation. But where it's coming from. Is from that little. That, that little girl, that little boy that didn't want to be picked on. They had a wound, right? You see, man, that person has a bad attitude. What you don't see is the soul that was fractured.

[B]

This reminds me of the deliverance session that we had at that first, we need to heal. And the demon was expressing itself, saying, go ahead and leave her like everyone else does. And it was almost saying, I'm going to be with her even when you guys are gone. So I knew that abandonment had to be there, and they were playing off of that abandonment. But you even heard.

[A]

You heard the demon, because the demon was telling the lie that it was rehearsing to her soul. And so guess what? Even if we cast out that demon, if we didn't get that place healing the soul, he would be back tomorrow. So we see the fruit, but the root of it was a place that she was partnering with a soul wound instead of partnering with the Holy Spirit.

[B]

Have mercy, Jesus.

[A]

And we walk around and we see all these people in our ministry and we say, oh, that's just a bad attitude. Oh, sometimes she just acts weird. Oh, sometimes she's a little standoffish. You're seeing all these fruit. Oh, she's a little anxious. But, but, but there's. There's. There's a partnership that's going down on the inside. Right. And if we would take the time to start saying, wait, where is that coming from? And not just saying, not. Not dismissing the fruit as that. It's just the fruit is that. It's just. No, that's a symptom.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Some people.

[A]

How many times? How many times, right? We. We see. Even in especially men, we do it right. So many times we'll feel something going weird on in our body. Yes, right. Oh, that's just gas. Yeah. You know, I got this ache, but, you know, it's just, you know, you. I'm saying. And many times it's our body, right. Giving us signals. Something's wrong here, something's off here. We do the same thing in the body of Christ. We see little cells that's acting awkward. We see cells that are malformed. We see cells that are cancerous. What is a cancer? A cancer is a malformed cell. Right. There are many malformed believers that we see that don't look how they should. That don't sound. That aren't biblical. Right. That, you know, when you look at them, something's off we go, that's just them. No, no, no, no. That's not Just them.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And who's going to have the heart? Who's going to have the care enough to say, no, I'm going to walk alongside you and I'm going to get to the root. Hate me later. Okay. But. But what. What, well, Nev said is that, hey, Rob didn't try to love that out of you. That. That Rob didn't tell you the truth.

[B]

That's good, man.

[A]

And I didn't tell you the truth in love.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Right. That. No, I can believe. I can say this With. With. In truth, there. There are very few people that are around me that haven't sat with me for a minimum amount of time that haven't start saying what's going on with you.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Do you notice? You notice you do that? Well, I was talking to one of our friends the other day. I think she. She was talking to one of us and she said, you know, Rob said, da, da, da, da. And I said, do you notice that? You kind of do.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You see what I'm saying?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because. Because it's almost like the. If. If you're going to be in my presence.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Right. And if I pick up on something, it's my duty.

[B]

Uh, oh, okay.

[A]

As. As someone that says, I love you. You. As someone that says, I call. Call myself your friend. As someone. If I see something to say, hey, you're making a strange sound in the spirit. Do you recognize that? I see fruit here. I see fruit here. That doesn't sound. That doesn't look like the Lord Jesus Christ. I see fruit being manifested. Are you aware that there may be something deeper here? Right? And there's so many times that so many of us, so many times we pick people in the Bible, right, that were flesh and blood and that. That resonate with our soul wounds and try to use them as. As reasons why we can continue on in poor behavior.

[B]

Like what?

[A]

Like. Like we say, for example, we could say, well, you know, Peter, he was a gangster, you know, he sliced the air, but Jesus picked it up and put it back on. So why are you going around slicing people? Right? Jesus flipped tables one time in his ministry. You do it every week. What we talking about? That's good, bro. What are we talking about? That's good, man. Right? We use people like, you know, the prophet Elijah mocked the people, right? But the reason why I believe that Jesus came down in the flesh was that he gave us a perfect example, right? That we can look to. He gives the Beatitudes, right? He literally walked us down through his words and through his lifestyle. So that we. Because sometimes when you look at the Old Testament, you can't tell sometimes what is their own human behavior and what is Holy Spirit led.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Right. You can tell the actions that's led by the Holy Spirit, but sometimes with the things that they're doing and how. And the things that they're saying. Like for example, and I'm not saying that he wasn't spirit led when he said this, but for example, when Elijah mocked the prophets of baal. Yeah. That could have just been Elijah's personality.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You see what I'm saying?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That didn't mean that it had to be the Holy Spirit.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I'm saying unction and screwed to do that.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

Right. But if we like to, if we're a mocker, we'll use that. If we're someone that likes to mock people, we'll use that as evidence that that's okay. Right. Even though we have a whole line of scripture that talks about how to look, how to speak with gentleness, how to speak with kindness, and hear me, there is a time. Hear me, there's some knuckleheads out here, okay. There are some people that hardened hearts, and when you have a hardened heart, there are some people that need the hammer to fall. And I believe that there are some people in the kingdom that God has given the boldness right to speak those strong words. I do believe now. So hear me correctly, this is not me coming against people that have ministries and have anointings to speak strong words and direct words. Because there are a lot of people that have heart and heart and they

[B]

need, they need that. They need that.

[A]

They need that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, but you, if, if make sure

[B]

it's the Spirit and not you make

[A]

sure it's the Spirit in you, not you. Right? And, and everybody shouldn't get the same blade. Right. The maturity is knowing when, when, what tool to use. When you see what I'm saying, there are times that, that Jesus spoke very strong words and then there was times that he used compassion. Right. And if, if, if, if you don't understand the, the, the complex. Right? And, and it's not even that complex. It's literally just being led. Right. And, and, and I know sometimes I could look at something and say, hey, that's not for me. Right. That situation probably needs somebody else to speak to it because, because where I am, I probably will be say in a different way that they, they need to receive it.

[B]

Wow. What you, what you just expressed when you talked about when you said this, it's my responsibility. I think about Jesus when he. He called Lazarus from the dead. Jesus did that by his power, no one else could do it. He called Lazarus from the dead, called him out of the grave, and Lazarus came forth. And then he said, he talked to the people around him and he said, loose him and let him go. So Jesus did the miracle of setting him free from death, delivered him from death, but then he assigned Lazarus to the individuals around him to loose him from the bandages. And I realized that the loosing from the bandages was a process. It required attention, it required time. And I think for many of us, we want Jesus to do the miracle, but we don't accept the responsibility to walk people through the process of what deliverance looks like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it takes me to actually look at someone, an individual, and say, that doesn't belong there.

[A]

Let me with you.

[B]

I can see what you can't see. And so not taking the responsibility. What makes us the. What makes us different? Different than Cain who says, am I my brother's keeper?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is it my responsibility? While his blood was being shed, while his blood was crying out, Cain said, I do not have responsibility for my dead brother. He probably was dying. He probably was at the moment of just death. And so for us, like we have assumed the spirit of Cain when we walk around and claim that we are not our brother's keepers because they act out or they sin in ways that are different than us. Somebody act out with the spirit of Jezebel, they might have brushed you the wrong way. Somebody act out with anger or with rudeness. They done annoyed me. They done offended me. And I allow my offense to rule and say, I am unwilling.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

To allow the spirit in me to deal with the spirit in you, to help me love the soul in you. Because I don't know how to wrestle against spirit. I only know how to engage with flesh and blood.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

I only know how to react to the tantrums of the enemy. And then I forfeit my responsibility to loose you from what the Lord assigned

[A]

me to loose you from. Come on. That is. That is so good. There was someone that came to me at one of the conferences, right? And I had walked with them through deliverance before, right? And when I first went up to them, them, I said hi, gave him a hug, everything was fine. And then maybe 20, 30 minutes later, they was acting kind of funny, right? And I was like, you know, they were kind of like just looking at me weird. And they would walk by and like, I think almost time, they almost like, kind of bumped me, and I kind of, like, kind of moved so I wouldn't bump them, but it was almost like. It was a little bit. Almost aggressive, right? And I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. I said, you know what? Maybe they're going through something. It's fine. About an hour later, they said, hey, can I speak to you? I said, sure. Come on. And they. They said, I feel like the holy Spirit wanted me to give this to you. On it was a piece of paper, all right? It was a piece of paper on the right side. It said, he is kind. He loves people. You know, he. He really does try to do his best to help people. People. On the other side of the paper, it said. It said, he is dangerous. Be ready to fight. He's the one that did this to us. Okay? So in. In that moment, okay, there were. There were spirits speaking to her mind, and she was having an internal battle with the spirits that were in her mind, right? And the person. The. The demons were saying, hey, I got. Before he helped me walk through deliverance, two of them came back and they're saying, stay away from him. Because before he. He got rid of us. And we want him. We want to stay delivered.

[B]

He.

[A]

We don't want you to get delivered. Right? And so she's arguing, but, hey, he's actually kind of. Kind. I know him. He actually loves people, right? If I had started acting out back towards her, okay? If I felt how she was acting towards me, I said, you. I know what you. You. You acting kind of funny, right? If I had allowed myself to be offended, okay, that would have gave the demons acts in her mind room to say, see. See?

[B]

Reinforcement.

[A]

It would have reinforced what the spirits in her mind were telling her.

[B]

So you're telling me that if we are reactive, if we get offended, if we get in our feelings instead of in the spirit. Come on. Then it's likely that we have cheerleaded, supported, and reinforced demons.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

That we were responsible to cast out. We were there to prove that they were a liar.

[A]

Come on. Come on.

[B]

But we came, and because we're offended, we proved them right.

[A]

And you know why? Because you want operating with the fruits of the spirit.

[B]

Come.

[A]

Okay? Because if you operate with love, joy, peace, long suffering, temperament, self control, right? When that thing happened, it wouldn't have shifted you.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

That's why God said, if you want to be in this ministry, you have to be unoffendable.

[B]

Un what?

[A]

Unoffendable. Because if all someone has to do is offend you. And now you are so upset within yourself that you can no longer carry out the kingdom mandate. Then all the enemy has to do is have that person act out in a certain way and your ministry is done.

[B]

Jesus should have been offended, so much so at Peter that he could not have assigned him apostleship. Well, it led him to apostleship when told him to feed the sheep.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Because how could you, Peter? You done rock with me.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

I warned you. How did Peter. You told me that you would never leave me.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

And here you go denying me. If Jesus was in his feelings, if Jesus got offended, Peter would not have been established. Peter would not have preached in Acts and would have brought deliverance and salvation to the 3,000. If Jesus was offended, he would have hindered the 3,000 in Acts.

[A]

Come on. Come on.

[B]

What bondage has your offense produced in your family, in your lineage, in your community?

[A]

And this is why, as ministers, you have to be healed. Because the enemy will play on your soul wounds, he will play on your soul voids. And whatever is in you that can be corrupted, he will literally use that thing to make you inefficient in ministry. Oh, oh, oh. He still. He's still angry a little bit. He still got a little bit of anger in him. He still got a little bit of lust in him. He still got a little bit of. Okay, that's exactly how he's coming. Because the goal is to. Because there's a place that you're not abiding. Because he can. The enemy can see the fruit that looks like him. Okay? He's always looking for his fruit. The fruit's always going to come from two kingdoms. Okay? You got the kingdom of heaven, you've got the kingdom of flesh, hell, whatever the case may be, right? There's always two kingdoms of flesh, of fruit. Yes. All right. The enemy's looking for what fruit looks like hat him. What fruit got a root that should be going to there, but it's actually coming right here.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Right? Oh, there's some unforgiveness there that. That's right there in the gates of hell. Oh, so. So you.

[B]

You.

[A]

You got five roots that. That go where they're supposed to. You got two that come right here, right? You, you. You great when it comes to being kind. You great when it comes to. To joy. But when it comes to finances, you don't really trust God. So, so this, you, you. That lack of faith being your root right here. And so guess what? Because you haven't trusted God, and you're not abiding in him, you know, for entrusting him for your finances, guess what? When you start using your gifts, as soon as that dollar sign comes, guess where you're going? Right over here. And it will start dictating how you minister. It will start dictating what you say yes to. It'll start dictating. Are you going to go to this conference or that conference? Are you going to take this assignment or that assignment? Why? Because although other roots go over there, the insecurity of finances come right here.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

And so, and so the fruit, the sound that it makes. Well, how come. How come you only do conferences that, you know, pay you 20,000 or more?

[B]

That.

[A]

That's a strange. That's. That's a strange sound in the kingdom. That's a strange fruit. Why? Because there's a root.

[B]

How.

[A]

How come. How come when. When it. It came time that those people over there that can't pay you anything, but they seem like they really need your ministry, you keep saying no to them.

[B]

Wow. Man talk.

[A]

So, so, yeah, so your ministry starts making strange fruit.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Right? How about this one? You. You have a spirit of control, right? A spirit of control. Because you, you, you. You've seen things. And, and, and this, this is the thing. You can have poor fruit fruit or misaligned fruit, and your intentions be good. Okay, what about the minister that, you know, I won't use that example. What about the person, right, that just started a job, right, and they want to do everything amazing, they want to do everything great, right? And so they see little. Little, you know, inefficiencies, right? And so instead of just, you know, partnering and working, they start controlling everything. Well, I got to fix this, and I got to fix that and fix that. And so what you're actually doing is that you're partnering with the spirit of control, right? And so the people that you should be developing and saying, okay, you know what? You made a mistake, but I'm gonna pull you in close and I'm going to walk with you and develop, right? You have such a need for validation, for everything to go right, for everything to be right. And you're so afraid, you know what I'm saying, for anything to go wrong, that you say, you know what? I'm going to control everything. And when you try to control everything, you actually end up suppressing all of your employees.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

So they don't grow, the company looks great, but you have all of These malformed employees that never are able to grow to become what they should be. But it was actually a spirit of control. So, so they, so for you, you look around, I, hey, everything's going really well. You know, we haven't had any, you know, financial mishaps. We haven't had any, you know, scandals in the job. We haven't had X, Y and Z. But when you look around every, all your employees that should be maturing, that should be able to grow and develop, they're still level one employees.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because all you did was control everything. Micromanage, right? So even to think that it came from a good place because you wouldn't trust God with the process. Oh my goodness, you, you entered your own control. Now everyone, everyone else is affected because you didn't trust God that he would help you grow and develop what he gave to you in the first place.

[B]

You keep mentioning control. We had a conversation and you were talking to me about Jezebel and the relationship with Jezebel and Ahab and the interconnectedness and kind of diagnosing what you see there and how to avoid the trap of both ones. I never heard the perspective of Ahab being something that could be seen as a hero in other segments. And Jezebel being someone that you can, anyone, man or woman, can tie themselves to the spirit of Jezebel. Could you talk about that relationship a little bit?

[A]

Sure. So, so the reason why Jezebel and Ahab go well together, right? Ahab is someone that is looking for. And people think that they see Ahab, they think weak, Right. Most times Ahabs are going to be super talented because Ahab was a leader. Okay. But he was conflict averse. Right. He was not formed well in his soul. Right. And so what? Actually, when you're Ahab, you're actually attracted to powerful people people. You're actually attracted to you. Some, A lot of times, times Ahabs won't. Will be very indecisive.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Right. Because they never want to get it wrong. They're perfectionists. Right. And so when you see somebody that's just, I get it done, I you want that? I got it. Right. So they're looking for someone that is, that is a go getter that get it done. And they're actually attracted to that because it helps cover up that place where they're indecisive. Right. And then Jezebel, right. She's like, oh no, I need to be in control of everything. Ahab is willing to give up his authority, right? Oh, you somebody's gonna get it done. Well, I'll look good. If you get it done, go ahead and get it done. In the meantime, you're giving up your authority. Right. And Jezebel, she needs control. Right. So she'll gladly take the authority that you're giving it, because that's gonna make her feel like she's safe. When I can control everything, then now I'm safe. And many times people that deal with the spirit of Jezebel, they. For a long time in their life, they felt out of control.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay. For a lot of times, if you. If you see someone that's dealt with. Dealing with the spirit of Jezebel, you see there was some kind of big trauma. A lot of people. Times when people have done with. Dealt with, like, abuse and, like, you know, sexual abuse in their life that they dealt with people that were overly domineering, they say, you know what? I'll never let this happen to me again.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Right? I'll never be taking advantage of again. All right? And because they. They. That. That they had that rule in their soul. Right. That now governs their soul. So every decision where they start feeling out of control, they got to snatch it back.

[B]

You said, I'm going to. I got to let you come back to it. You said, the soul is where that governing takes place. You made me think about. About government and also, like the state in which we live. Like, my state issues my driver's license. In any state that you live in, in the United States, they issue your driver's license. Isn't it interesting that the governing state issues your id.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Issues your identity, but also the governing state makes the determination on the boundaries where its principles can govern you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

In a sense, they set your limitations. They set the punishments, even if you're not aware of them.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

They set what happens, what doesn't happen. I was driving in Georgia, and I didn't realize that you can't drive by a police in the shoulder. Drive by the police in the shoulder of the freeway at the same speed you were driving if they weren't there? Yeah, they pulled me over and I'm like. He was like, you didn't slow down. I was like, I'm from la. Why do I gotta slow down? He's like, you in Georgia now. Come on. Anytime you drive by an officer, you gotta slow down. If they're in the shoulder, I'm like, man.

[A]

And a lot of times they make you switch lanes, too, or switch.

[B]

Or you gotta switch lanes or slow down. I was just like, that's so crazy. I was like, I don't get no slack. I didn't know.

[A]

He said, you live in Georgia now. Come on.

[B]

It doesn't matter if you didn't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so when we authorize governing authorities over our souls based on. And who you give authority to. Like when I. If I move to a different state, they have. They have that. That state has governing authority over me. I don't think the soul realm works like that. I don't have to be in a different location. Literally. It's not geographical. It's spiritual on a spiritual level. And so we. We don't realize that we give permission to authorize spiritual spirits to give us our id.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To set our limitations and to regulate our lives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Based on their principles. Not yours.

[A]

Exactly. And not the kingdom of heavens. Okay. And so. And so that's why. Right? When. When you have the. You have this entity governing your soul.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

And it's producing what it wants to produce out of you. Okay. And then. And so then. And it's so interesting. So for you, you. You feel safe. You. You feel. You like, look, I'm good. I'm driving. I'm good. You in your car, you feel safe because you know what? You know, right? But everyone around you is experiencing something else.

[B]

Uh, oh, okay.

[A]

So we. You being controlling, you feel okay. I feel safe. Everyone else feels manipulation. Everyone else feels anger. Everyone feels when they bump up against you. I. I heard someone say it like this, right? They use this example. They said, I have a cup of coffee, right? You bumped me and bumped my cup of coffee, right? Why? And the coffee spills. Why did the coffee spill?

[B]

Cause.

[A]

Cause you bumped me, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No, because it was coffee in my cup, okay? If there was water in my cup, water would have spilled. If there was juice in my cup, juice would have spilled, right? What ends up coming out of you. You is a result of what's already in you.

[B]

That's good, bro.

[A]

Okay, and so what's governing your soul? Right? People think about the fruits of the spirit, right? We're not talking about on your best day, okay. What comes out when you're oppressed, okay. What comes out of you, okay. When you're squeezed, okay. That's why there's a wine press, okay? Because we're trying to see what's on the inside of you, okay? So many people. People try to judge themselves by their best day. We're not talking about by your best day, okay? It's when you get under pressure, what comes out of you that's actually what's on the inside. That's good, bro. Okay. And that's actually what's governing your soul. When someone bumps up against you when you're having the worst day, when, when you're, When. When you're stressed, when you're. When, when, when. When life is not going how you want to go, do you still have joy? Do you still have peace? Okay. Are you still long suffering? Are you still patient?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay. Do you have self control? A lot of us, we're great as soon as we leave church, right. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you get stressed, you and your wife get into argument. X, Y and Z. That's self control. You still got self control to stop doing what you're supposed to do. Wow. Right? When you get pressed, that's what shows what's really on the inside of you. You. That really shows what's governing your soul. That really shows what lane you're in. Right. And I have so many people that are. That there's a difference between being aware and being. Being governing. Okay. There's a lot of people that think they're good because they're aware of their flaws. Oh, yeah, Yeah. I know I have bad attitude. Okay. But are you able to control it? Oh, yeah, yeah. I, I know why I struggle with this. Yeah. But have you got it under control? Okay. And that's why the, The. The. One of the. The last fruits of the spirit is self control. It means that you have the ability to govern yourself. Not that, that. Just that you're aware of what's happening. Right. Because many of us, we. We. We. We become aware of what's happening and we. We become aware of the fruit that's being produced in our life. And we say, well, God got it. Well, grace. Grace covers it. It. And I love what you said about partnering for your deliverance. It's so amazing that the, The Bible says that God delivered the children of Israel with a strong and mighty hand. Yes, he did. But they still had to walk.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Right? They. They still had to move their feet. Right. They still had to cross the burning sands.

[B]

That's good, man.

[A]

Okay, so that means that there's always a place for you to partner with your deliverance. Deliverance. God gives you the opportunity. He opens the door. You still have to walk through it.

[B]

Still gotta walk through it.

[A]

You still have to walk your deliverance out. Right? God didn't send the angel to carry them across the desert and place them in the promised land. No, they still had to walk that thing out. Right. And Anytime that their faith did not give them, they didn't have the requisite faith to be in the promised land, they went around it again. Okay? The Bible says loose to the fact that it could have been a three month journey, it took them 40 years because they didn't have the faith to exist in the promised land. He said, if I had brought you there because of your faith, you would have failed. You would have turned around and ran.

[B]

Oh my goodness.

[A]

All right, so, so then I, the, the, the reality is, and the reason even why that he, he had to give them mana day by day is cuz he had to show them, I am your source. Source? Yes, I am your source. You will only partner with me. And the reality is the minute that he kind of let loose a little bit, they started building the calf, right? The reality is God is saying, you have to abide in me. And what most people don't realize. I was talking to someone just yesterday and they were saying, hey, I'm struggling with this. And I said, well, are you abiding?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Are you abiding? And he was like, yeah, I go to church. I said, yeah, no, are you abiding? Some of us make it seem like abiding means I'm doing drive bys to the holy with the Holy Spirit, that I'm making visits. And I said, there is no shortcut. There is no shortcut in the spirit spirit.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Okay. There's no shortcut to discipline. There's no shortcut to, to maintaining your relationship with God.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So you're saying I can't stop this. This. You know, every now and then I start struggling with, with lust again. Well, what's your relationship like? Are you abiding? I said, you, you ever notice that when you're in church and it's, and, and you've been shouting and praising, it's. It's very hard to be lust gospel.

[B]

Come on, man.

[A]

Right? Do you, do you ever realize that it's extremely hard to, to be super upset when you've, after you've been praising? Yes. It usually takes a while to, to kind of weigh down. I was at this, this event called the Heartroom, I think, and I heard someone say it like this. And it's. First time I actually heard, heard about, heard somebody say it. They said when you plug in the cell phone, right? And the cell phone's on a charger, all right, the minute you plug it out, it starts dying. The minute you plug the cell phone out, it starts dying, right? So the phone that's in with 80% left. And the phone that has 20% left in the same condition, right? You just don't start looking for your charger until you hit 15%, until you hit 10%. But it's actually, it's always been dying ever since it left the plug.

[B]

That's so good, bro.

[A]

Okay, the reality is, many of us, we wait till we get to 10 and 5% to start saying, God, I feel I'm struggling. I'm dah, dah, dah, dah. No, the minute you unplugged, you started decreasing. The minute you unplugged, right, you started. You stopped dividing, right? You just waited till you were in the red zone, till your voice started creeping up again, till you started getting thirsty again to say, wait a minute, I feel off. Off

[B]

you.

[A]

You knew your prayer life hadn't been where it's supposed to be. You knew you hadn't been fasting like you supposed to be fasting. You knew God say, hey, pick it up. Two weeks ago. You knew God say, hey, I'm about to send something, so you need to. But we go, okay, all right. God, I got my kids right now. Okay? God, okay, okay. We wait till we are in the red zone. Till lust is knocking on our door. Till aggression. Till what, irritated. Till we cussing people out to ex. To say, okay, what's going on? On, right? But when we talk about abiding, all right, it's. It's that it means that we are always on the charger, right? That there's this. This ever. Ever present relationship with God, right? That we're not waiting to. We're dehydrated. We're not waiting until we're hungry. We're not waiting for that moment where we feel like I. And. And the enemy is so cunning, right? He is so cunning that. That he will feel you. It's like junk food, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's. It's like, you know, that there's dinner going to be on the table. You know, that. That. That your. Your wife cooked, you know? You know, there's this. But. Okay, that's two hours away, so I'm just gonna get this little snack. I'm gonna just eat some. I'm gonna just pick here. By the time you get home. You don't. You. You don't even want the food. Well, you might. Okay.

[B]

I feel you, though.

[A]

I see your place. You know what I'm saying? But. But sometimes we. We. We fill ourselves up with so much stuff, but by the time it's supposed to. Supposed to, it's. It's time for us to actually connect. We are so full. But that the very thing that's supposed to abide and give us life, we don't have time for. We don't have energy for. The intimacy dies. And then we turn around and we say, wait. We look. We can look around and there's all this strange fruit around us. And we're like, how did this strange fruit get here? Because there's areas in your life that you stopped abiding.

[B]

The difference between living and surviving. Surviving is literally the state of being. Not dead yet.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

Living is this onward, blossoming, comprehensive approach to life. That. That does not leave room for the panic and anxiety of. I just am trying to. The Lord did not call us to live like that, to survive. And that's what Junu does. God made the body so re. Resilient. And I call it grace.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That you could eat hot Cheetos every day until you're 32 and not die.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But just because you're not dead, that is so good. Doesn't mean you're living. Doesn't mean you're nourished. God just says, I'm hoping that they wake up tomorrow.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

I'm hoping that they change the diet. I made your body so resilient that you could survive off toxins.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

You're surviving.

[A]

Yeah. But it doesn't mean you're living. And that is why gifting is so dangerous.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Because gifting can give you the illusion that you're healthy and the whole time you're dying. Right. Gifting can give you the illusion because you can sing very well, and people still get moved that you're abiding.

[B]

Have mercy, God.

[A]

Gifting, because you can still prophesy, makes you can. Can make you feel like, okay, I'm still doing well.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Well, all the time. And let me. Can I just say this? God is not impressed by your gifts. Okay? God is not impressed by your gifts. One of the illustrations I always talk about is, you know, my kids are at this the age now of 6 and 8, where we may start giving them allowances. Okay? And so they may get $5 on Friday. Okay. And I have a son and a daughter. All right. Lily and Levi. Okay? Sometimes I'll give Levi five. He'll come and get his allowance for us. He'll get $5 for us. He'll run. Look, Lily, I got $5. She's like, oh, you got money? You got money. X, Y, and Z. Right? He'll Come back to me 10 minutes later. I got $5. I got $5, okay? I'm like, congratulations, right? God is not congratulating you on the gift. On the. On the fact that you have something that he gave you.

[B]

I always say this. God's gifts or giftings is not proof of his love for you. It's proof that he's generous and it's proof. Proof that he loves them through you.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

He said, there is a gift that I have given that proves my love for you.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

For God's soul love that he gave.

[A]

What?

[B]

Himself?

[A]

Himself.

[B]

If you want proof that God loves you, come on. Then you got to tap into him. You got to tap into source. You got to tap into his presence.

[A]

Come on. Come on.

[B]

If you want to know I love you, then tap into my presence.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Do you want to love? No, I love you. And tap into me. My gifts are just proof that I

[A]

love them through you. Come on.

[B]

Ain't that kind of crazy that we. Oh, God loves me because he let this prophetic word flow through me. That was for them.

[A]

That was for them. Okay? I, like, See, I said something like. I'm like, I'm not congratulating my kids for having money, right? I get some. What impresses me, okay, is how they steward it.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Okay, okay, How. How. What impresses me is, is what they do with it, okay?

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

They. It's so funny. The other day I. I heard my. My. My daughter and my son speaking, right? And so she always has more money than him. She. I mean, not because they get different amounts. He just likes to blow through his.

[B]

She holds on to.

[A]

She holds on to hers. He came from outside and his shoes were dirty. Cuz he was playing outside in the dirt, right? And she looks at his shoes and she says, levi, I think. I think I'm gonna get you some shoes. She's eight. Okay? She's eight years old.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay? And I said, lily, I don't think you can afford those shoes. She ran upstairs, okay? Got her little piggy bank and brought it down and said, look, I've been saving all this money. And I was like. And guess what? She had enough that she could have bought him shoes. But what even impressed me more is that she knew that our household had a need and she was ready to fill it with what I had given her, Okay?

[B]

She.

[A]

She was aligned with the household. She knew that, hey, when. When his shoes get to a certain amount of time, Daddy's going to have. Have to. Because she Knows daddy's heart. And she knows when his daddy's heart, when his shoes get looking, a certain type of raggedy daddy's already going to go, it's time for some new shoes. And so she says, hey, you know what? With what you've given me, I'm going to do because I know your heart.

[B]

What you just said, you keep on drilling this point. The, the prodigal son's brother said that your son. You're celebrating, but I've been here all this time.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

The father said that your brother.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Was lost and now is found, is dead and now is alive. Same person referred to in two different ways.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

The brother said, that's your son. The father said, that's your brother.

[A]

You said, come on.

[B]

The embrace between the father and the prodigal son should have been a three way hug, right? If the brother had his father's heart, he would have been waiting with him. It should have been a two way kiss. It should have been a three way embrace. But we see the souls of individuals around us and we're just trying to get to our next level. Because God, that's your kids, right?

[A]

Right?

[B]

God is saying thing, that's your brother,

[A]

but come on, that's your sister. And, and didn't I put in you what they need that could restore them? Did, did, did not I give you. And, and, and this the thing. If you had my heart, you would see that you had in you what they needed to be restored.

[B]

Bro, man, you know what? Bro, you know what?

[A]

Okay, so, so, so, so this is reality. So, so that's, that shows me that you can have God's gifting, you can have the wisdom of love, but do you have his heart? Because when you have his heart, you will see the need before he tell.

[B]

Okay, so that's what this was about, huh? So that's what this is about. This, that is the genetic marker.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

For being a branch. Do you have the heart of God? Do you have the heart of the father? We will not be able to approach this accordingly without his heart.

[A]

Heart.

[B]

I want to ask you, I know we, we, we've spoke, spoken a lot, and I know you probably have something else that you want to share, but I want to ask practically, man. So I'm hearing, I'm hearing what's happening, but practically, if I have issues, I have fruit in my life, how do I go from seeing the fruit experience, experiencing a level of deliverance, and then getting to a place where I'm able to walk out identifying These soul wounds or soul voids. Could you walk me through practically? Sure. And for the. For the baby that's listening, what do I need to do? Because I'm one of those people that have these issues, but I don't know how to get from here to there.

[A]

So I think practically, right. I always ask people, when did this fruit start showing up in your life? When did you start noticing this fruit show up in your life? Okay. What situation triggered it? Right? What lie did you agree with or come into agreement with? All right? Or sometimes it's this. What emotion did you make room for? All right? And then what spirit took advantage of that open door? And what fruit has grown because of. Of it? Those. Those are literally the questions I would start asking, right? And if you go to sould discipleship.org shameless plug, we have a whole fruit assessment.

[B]

What is the fruit assessment?

[A]

All right, so the fruit assessment, it literally is we take every fruit, biblically, every fruit, and we start creating, asking you situations, right? Well, have you experienced this? And we can actually show you, hey, what fruit is lowering your life? Life, Lord. Yeah. Like, what fruit? Based on the. The. The.

[B]

You got to bring your mic close so we can make sure you hear. Yeah.

[A]

All right, so it's. It's. We. We call it the fruit assessment. We do it in soul discipleship. And I think I did part of it on your. On your teaching, on. On your life. And so. But now we. We kind of digitized it, right? And so we start. There's these questionnaires, these questions that we ask to help you identify, okay, what fruit may be showing up in your life, Right? Where did it come from? From. And then how do you renounce, right? And then reroute, okay? Because like I said, every fruit reroot is crazy.

[B]

That's like a metaphor right there.

[A]

Come on. Look, I could go. We could talk about the mulberry tree. Okay? He said, come on, do I have time? Because literally, he said, if you have faith, right, to speak to the tree, he said, you can cast it, can be uprooted and throw it into sea. And then God even talks about how it'll be replanted into the sea. Sea, right. Which is unnatural for roots, because roots can't survive in the sea. So what he's saying is that if you would have faith enough in me. And the thing about the mulberry tree, if you look at it, it has one of the most complex root systems, right? To show that even those complicated issues in your life, even those generational issues in your Life that, you know, your mama had a bad attitude and your grandma had a bad attitude and your great grandma had about those complicated issues in your life that you, you're acting of out things that you don't even know where it came from.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Right. If you have enough faith to abide and to trust in God, even those can be uprooted and thrown into a sea where it will never survive and can never be replanted in your life again.

[B]

My goodness.

[A]

Right. And so we start walking people through each of these, right? And at the end of the assessment, it actually gives you a plan on how you can literally week by week, start, not only get rid of those fruit, but start rerouting yourself in the word of God.

[B]

Oh my. Okay, so souldiscipleship.org yeah, so we're going to put all the links in the description and also the soul discipleship school that you.

[A]

So, yeah, so we, we also have a soul discipleship community.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Where like, like I said, we have close to a thousand people. And so we don't. We, we want you to, we want to partner with you. All right. And we're even creating a, a new pathway for, for churches. Because one of the things that I think, you know, I just don't like to come hard at ministries, right. I think God was like, okay, well, what is the solution? So we're actually creating a soul diagnostic system for churches so that pastors can say, you know what? How do I disciple my people? Right? And so we're creating actually systems at churches. We can partner with churches and pastors that say, hey, I have 15, 20, 40 people on my leadership team. They can take an assessment and they can diagnose where they are in their soul. And it can literally show you areas that you can partner with your people to shepherd them in the areas of growth in your soul.

[B]

That is so fire.

[A]

Yes, sir. And because like, like I said, I really feel like God in this season is, is bringing back the shepherd in grace.

[B]

That's so good.

[A]

Right? And, and how can, how can ministries. Because let's be real, everyone is not equipped, right? Everyone. If, if pastors was going to sit down and have to take the time, it, it, it's, it's, it's challenging to do, right? To sit down with every single person on your team and say, okay, what, what are you going through? X, Y and Z. So this is a system that, and, and it's all Bible based straight from. That's one thing we do. It's. All of it comes from scripture, right? Every lie that we believe, we. We say, okay, what's the lie that you believe and what is the biblical truth that you now need to insert into your soul that now will govern your soul?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because in every area that you had a soul wound, you need a biblical truth to govern that area now.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Okay, so for example, if you, if you had fatherlessness, if you had mother wound up, right? I always tell people, even as I'm doing deliverance, you know, when your mother and father forsake you, God himself takes you up. That is your new governing scripture. That is truth that now your soul can live with. Yeah, my dad was gone, but guess what? The Bible says, if my mother and father forsake me, God himself takes me up. I'm not a bastard. I'm not abandoned.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

And okay, so that place, that void that needs to be filled, well, I'm not abandoned because God himself took me up. And now I can walk with that soul, with that truth in my soul. Right? There's, there's a. For every lie, God has the truth of his word that can fill every wound that was infested with a lie.

[B]

Chills.

[A]

Right? And, and, and, and I, I really believe that that's my mandate in this next season is to truly help the body of Christ heal and, and help. Minister says, walk their people through, through soul healing, soul voice, soul wounds so that they can walk out righteousness.

[B]

As you were speaking, the Lord was saying, gave me a quick word for you that as you were speaking, he said, this is my son and that is my heart. And he's saying, the reason why you're able to, one, articulate. What you're able to articulate is because your heart has been processed, your life has been processed in his hands. He's also saying that, that there were others that I wanted to release this message earlier through, but they didn't allow me to do proper work in them. And he's saying, and the reason why you're able to love his sheep well, is because you're giving them what you didn't get.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

And he, he literally, when he literally processed you, you in his hands.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

He fed you his truth. He gave you. You're literally creating something that is, literally. That has the fingerprints of God on it that you can't say that you've been walked through what you're about to walk people through.

[A]

Yeah, it's true. Yeah.

[B]

You can't say that you've been loved in the ways that God is gifting you to Love.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

And if you wanted to know if the Lord was with you, then you need to receive what he's done in your life as the greatest miracle that could be done.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

Because what he is using you to do is so transformational, so transcending and powerful that only he could do it.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

By himself.

[A]

Oh, Amen. I receive that man.

[B]

Amen. I want to pray for those that are watching. This was really, really powerful for me. Life changing for me. What I took away from it is there's a responsibility on my life. God is counting on me. He's looking to me to be a vessel for his intention in the lives of those around me that I, there's a demand on my life for fruit for those that are around, around me. That's one and two. The consequence of being fruitless is exponential.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

I, I, I refuse, I refuse to be fruitless.

[A]

The Bible says it, he says that any tree that does not bear fruit,

[B]

oh my goodness, man.

[A]

Okay. Is literally cut off, right? And, and, and there's so many of us. And it is, it's just like the, the fig tree, tree that was supposed to be producing fruit, I'm saying. And, and he in the, the reality is, is it looks like it had leaves, right? That, that, that if you, if you start, if you do a little study, the leaves only come as, as a, as a form of maturity.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Right. So it had all of the sentiments as though it, that this, when he got up close, there should be fruit, fruit. But when he got there, there was no fruit on the tree.

[B]

Oh my goodness.

[A]

And what he do, he cursed it. Mercy Jesus, which shows that there's so many of us, that you've been in his presence long enough that there, the, the amount of fruit that should be emanating on your life, right? It should be so much abundant fruit. And then if you do have fruit, is it filled with thistles and thorns that, that every time someone tries to go and grab one, they get cut, they get wounded. Will you allow God to process those areas in your soul so that you can be a healthy representation?

[B]

Come on, man.

[A]

That you can be a healthy representation of his body. And I, and I say this as someone, that there's been times that I've been an unhealthy representation, right? And so I had to go through the pressing to your point, I had to go through the shaping and the extremely hard seasons because God had to process that out of me. And I had to look at the fruit that was being produced in my life and say, God, this doesn't look like what it's supposed to look like. God, I want my life to make the right sound. I want my fruit to be something that you look at and say, yeah, this came from my kingdom. Want the fruit that people are able to get from my life to be something that when they ingest, they don't get sick.

[B]

Come on, man.

[A]

That they find it as nourishment and they're able to grow and get better and find you even the more. And I want it so much that I'm almost invisible that when they see me, they see you, right? That the fruit of my life. When they say, well, why does Rob have peace? It's because I've been with the Prince of Peace. When they see joy in circumstances that I should not have joy, they could say, well, it's probably because he's been with the Lord. Right? That, like, that's. That. That is the testimony I want my life to say, right? How, how can I love people in such a way that. That, that speaks that I've been with God, You know, that, that, that is why I believe God truly wants. Wants the body to get to.

[B]

Brother, I'm a believer, man. I'm a believer. Everything that has come forth today, Lord, I receive it. I receive it. I pray that everyone that heard this message today, that they don't just. This was not a podcast. I don't even know what this was, but it wasn't a podcast. And I pray every leader, every minister, sister, every parent, every husband, every wife receives this and, and even this assessment, man. It's a really practical way to be able to see real time what's happening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Diagnosing yourself based on scripture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I encourage you, and let

[A]

me just say this because just, just people that. And, and, and it's in it, but just because if. To be ministerially responsible. So, so the goal when you take the. Is not to diagnose yourself and then start trying to produce that fruit.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

So, so the goal is not to say, oh, wow, I realize that I have low patience. Let me start being more patient. Because then, then you're falling into the trap of what we just talked about. Right. It means that you have to be rerooted in that area, that this. And, and, and the assessment will help you, but it, it starts saying, hey, there's a place in, in, in that. That you're not rerooted in going to God for. And so when you identify that place, that's when you need to be Seeking the Lord for that fruit.

[B]

That's so good.

[A]

And I just wanted to make sure we were responsible in even saying that.

[B]

That's so good. That's so good, man. It's on you, man. If you could pray for those that are listening, man.

[A]

Sure. So, Father God, I just thank you right now in the mighty name of Jesus. Lord, I thank you for this conversation, Lord. I thank you. I even feel that, Lord, that you are with us. You've been with us, Father, through this conversation, Lord, I thank you, Lord, that each and every listener, each and every person that will listen to this podcast, Father God, that will listen to this, Father, over the airways, Lord, that they will take an ascent assessment. That they will partner with you, Lord, to identify what areas of their soul, Father God, what area of their hearts and their minds, Father, that you're trying to do a great work in, Father, that they will partner with the Holy Spirit. That they would learn to truly abide in you in every area, Lord, that. That you are healing the souls and the hearts of men, Father, I thank you right now in the mighty name of Jesus, Lord, that this word would go, Father God, and it would go, Father God, to the depths, Father God, that every person that needs to hear it, Father, that. That they would, you know, in. In full, Lord, and they will grab whatever it is that you want them to grab from it, Father God, this is not about my. This is not about me. This is not about Ezekiel. This is about you and you grabbing your people and healing them and getting them to the place in there so that they can be fruitful in your kingdom. That they can hear you say, well done, thy good and faithful servant.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[A]

That they can stand that. That we all can stand before you. I put myself in it, too. That.

[B]

That.

[A]

That we all can stand before you. Yes, God, proud with the. With. With what we will. That what we're coming to you with, but the fruit that's in our hand. And we will know that it's something that you will say, I approved of this, that this fruit looks like me, that this is organic fruit from the kingdom of heaven. So, Father God, I thank you, Lord, that you're healing your body, that you're sending shepherds out, Father, in a mighty way that. That would steward the souls and the hearts of men.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And I thank you for all the these things. In Jesus my name we pray. Amen.

[B]

What's going on, family? As you know, we need to heal. Atlanta 2026 is going down August 27th to the 29th. I know, I know, I know. Tickets sold out fast. And yes, it's going to be a packed lineup. It's going to be an amazing time in the lore. And some of you are going to be a part. Others of you may not be a part, but there is a way, way that everyone can be a part. When God told me that this year, 2026, we cannot charge, I was just like, all right, Lord, we're going to do what you say, but I don't know how you're going to make it happen. Many of you guys have already supported, you've already blessed our channel, and God has done tremendous things through it. And I don't think you even recognize how many people have been healed and blessed because you have donated, you have blessed, you have seen sow the seed. This is not going to be any different. We're believing and trusting that God is going to do everything that we need him to do through his hands and feet. And so we're looking to you, those of you who are already a part, you did not pay a registration fee or anything like that. We need, and I'm not ashamed to say we need donations. We need to get the speakers there with their flights and hotels accommodations. We still have to pay some for the venue. We still have to pay for security and other things that we need. Supplies and marketing materials and branding. All of these things cost money. And we know that God can do amazing things through us. So as much as we're sacrificing on this side, we know that God can put it on your heart to sacrifice as well. And for those of you that feel like, hey, why am I blessing and I'm not going to get anything from this, well, one, you know that you're rewarded in heaven. Two, what you're doing is paying it forward. Because the next time we do, we need to heal. We're believing God for even bigger venue, and we're believing God to accommodate those who were not able to be accommodated last time. So those of you that are willing to sow into, we need to heal this year. I want you to know that because of your seed, it's going to open the doors for us to be able to make this happen in a better, more effective way next year. And I can't. I can't wait to see what God does with that. So I'm just going to let y' all do y' all thing. Nothing is too small and nothing is too big. So go ahead and let God use you and sow something into what God is going to be doing for those three nights for we need to heal. I cannot wait to see what God does. I love you guys and all the information to donate is in the link in the description for social media. The link is in my bio. Love y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

Peace brothers. It's finally going down. Restore 2026 October 23rd to the 25th. I know some of you have been before, many of you have only seen clips on Instagram. But I just tell you this right now. It is like nothing you've ever experienced before this year. We know that God is going to move mightily. The speakers that we have apart, tremendous. The programming oh is so spirit led that you don't want to miss it. Trust me when I say this, this is going to be the most life changing restored that we have ever had. I want you guys to be a part. Those of you that are watching from Instagram or Facebook. The link is in bio. I cannot wait to see you guys break bread. Fellowship with y', all, man. Share our stories, man. God is going to be glorified in a tremendous way. Make sure you register now because we know that seating will be limited. I cannot wait to see each and every one of you a part of this. It's going down. Peace.