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AJ Holiday
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Curtis 50 Cent Jackson
If you're not watching BMF on Stars, you're seriously missing out from executive producer Curtis 50 Cent Jackson. The new season is coming, and Meech and Terry are leveling up. They're expanding their empire, launching a music label, and even hitting the 1995 Source Awards. Oh, and did I mention Lamar is back. BMF is where drama, hustle and hip hop collide. The drama top tier, the stakes higher than ever. This is the season everyone's going to be talking about. Don't miss the season premiere June 6th only on Starz and the Starz app.
Carlos Miller
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AJ Holiday
We Talk Back, where we encourage you.
AT&T Representative
To hustle hard, laugh louder and always keep it cute.
AJ Holiday
So grab your coffee cocktail and crown cause it's about to go down.
Tammy
We're just two unapologetically black women with an opinion who Talk back.
AJ Holiday
What's up, y' all? It's your girl, AJ Holiday. Yeah. What's up, tm?
Chamberlain University Representative
Bam?
Tammy
Hey, y' all. I'm so happy, girl.
AJ Holiday
What the. What was that? Right?
Tammy
I'm sorry. Hey, y' all. I love y' all so, so very much. How you doing?
AJ Holiday
Geeking out right quick.
Tammy
I'm so happy. I don't know if it's all right, y' all. I got all my weave out, and I got two puff balls, and it just makes me feel so youthful and just full of life or something. I don't know.
AJ Holiday
Interesting.
Tammy
My edges look.
AJ Holiday
Girl, you better get you some rose oil.
Tammy
They growing back.
AJ Holiday
We got on here. I was like, you got your real hair out. I hear that.
Tammy
That was smooth right there. It's some hair.
AJ Holiday
Got the edges flourishing for the summer.
Tammy
Don't play with me. Don't play with me.
AJ Holiday
I should have got me some braids. I just don't feel like putting them in and taking them out, though. It's just a whole process.
Tammy
Yes. But the in between time is so.
AJ Holiday
Glorious because I'd be in yoga with a wig scarf on. It was be wig hat for the gym. There's a wig scarf. When I tell y' all, y' all, fuck that gym shit, man. I think I'm about to just only do hot yoga because when I tell you, I burn way more calories in 45 minutes. And hot yoga, like, 600 calories in 45 minutes.
Tammy
I can't do nothing hot.
AJ Holiday
Yeah, you damn. They can't breathe in that. But. And I'd be right in there, like, tussling to do all them positions, child. Looking stupid. I already know that's how everybody looks.
Tammy
Stupid when they start.
AJ Holiday
My hip hurt a little bit today, but see that the thing is, I need to stretch more. Yes.
Tammy
So, yeah, I'm on day 58 of my 75 heart, and I, like. I look at the beginning pictures in the pictures now, and I can tell, like, my face, like, I can see my body is changing, but I don't know why I thought that I would be looking like Billy Blanks by now. And I don't, you know? So I just knew by the time I got to 60, I was gonna be ripped up. But that's not how it work. Like, the training was like. I mean, this is 75 days is good, but you got good results. Yeah, yeah, I got good results, but I just thought I was gonna look like. I don't know what I thought. I just thought, yeah, by the time I get to 60.
AJ Holiday
Are you doing like creatine and stuff like that? Because I put creatine into. In my little regimen. You know what I'm saying? I know. I don't eat enough protein, though.
Tammy
Girl, that's. That has been like the hardest part for me. Outside of drinking all that water every day, the protein I've been doing. Like, I found these muffins called bootylicious muffins in their low calorie, low carb.
AJ Holiday
They taste good.
Tammy
Yeah. And they taste nice. And they got 25 grams of protein. It comes like in a powder form. And you got to add water or milk or whatever, and I just add protein shake as my milk to it. And they're actually good. So I have those in the morning.
AJ Holiday
You got to bake them. That's what you're saying.
Tammy
Microwave.
AJ Holiday
Okay.
Tammy
It was in like a little cup, like a noodle cup, and you just mix it with your water or whatever you want to put in it and then put it in the microwave for a minute, 15 seconds, and it's a little muffin in a pot. And it's so good. And I have that with my black coffee in the morning.
AJ Holiday
Nice.
Tammy
And that's.
AJ Holiday
I just had two eggs this morning. I don't eat enough, man.
Tammy
Yeah, that's what I realized. You're supposed to have a gram of protein for every pound of your body. Who is eating that much protein in a day?
AJ Holiday
And then because I don't eat meat, like, it's hard. Like, I'm tired of salmon. I don't even. Salmon tastes weird nowad. So I bought like a big ass from Costco. I bought like a big ass box of lobster tails for like 200. It was like 20 lobster tails. Like the big ones too? Yeah. Because it was on sale Mother's Day weekend. So I bought. So I be lobster tails, scallops, you know, I made a little fried lobster. That's. Girl, that's. Imagine like if you go to a restaurant and got a lobster dinner, how much that's gonna cost you? It's gonna be $200 for that one meal, you and somebody else. So I got a whole box of them. That is actually not rich. That's rich broke.
Tammy
But that's. That's actually really good. And I noticed that you've been back to Costco, but you haven't mentioned my candle.
AJ Holiday
But they don't have them no more. They're gone. I didn't see them when I went back in there.
Tammy
I wanted that really badly.
AJ Holiday
I'm sorry. You know, I Would have had to went that very next day that we talked about it and I didn't, you know, but you should be able to order it online. I'll give you my Costco account and you could order it to your house online. Anything that you see that you might want usually is on the Costco website. Then that way you could just ship that shit to your house without stepping foot in a Costco.
Tammy
Okay, that's cool. I also wanted you to buy it, but it's okay, I'll just.
AJ Holiday
Girl, where the fuck was I putting that? That thing was. That thing is the size of a waste basket for a bathroom.
Tammy
Yeah. It's so big. I love it.
AJ Holiday
You gotta be careful with candles because a lot of them shit toxic, man. You want a big, big stupid ass toxic candle in your house?
Tammy
I want that.
AJ Holiday
Childish.
Tammy
I want that all kind of toxic in the house. I want that candle.
AJ Holiday
How was your weekend? I didn't do much this past weekend.
Tammy
My weekend. I hit. I hit a wall this weekend. Auntie is tired. I could do no more. I could do no more. I just had to rest. I had to. I mean, I did my workouts, but like, I literally did my workouts and got in the bed. That was it. I mean, I went to work.
AJ Holiday
That'd be fun.
Tammy
Yeah, I did enjoy laying in the bed all day. Like on Sunday I did my workout and then I got back in the bed. I. I tried to go. I was trying. I was supposed to go to New York. It didn't work out, but God said, lay down. And that's what I did. Shout out to Taylor. Taylor had her baby shower Sunday. I missed it. I sent her some nice things. I literally. I'm broke right now because.
AJ Holiday
Stop saying you broke, girl. You're in between blessings and ain't never broke. Okay?
Tammy
I'm in between blessings because five I know had baby showers this week. Hey, that's 500 gone. Just buying everybody some trying, you know, trying to bless everybody, baby. And I just pray over that money when I spend it on y' all that it comes back.
AJ Holiday
You're not spending it, you're circulating it. You see? Gotta choose those words wisely so the money can come back. So you circulated the money and bought the gifts and it's coming right back around.
Tammy
I've been.
AJ Holiday
And we ain't been fucking enough.
Tammy
Slow down.
AJ Holiday
Cause where is my goddamn baby, y' all. My birthday Sunday. Where is my baby?
Tammy
And then you don't never have no birthday party. I'm sick of you.
AJ Holiday
I don't. Because it's like, listen, I like to celebrate. I'm kind of sick of America. Maybe if I. Maybe I could plan a trip for real. Like, I wanted to do a solo trip, and I didn't even execute on that shit.
Tammy
Okay? You bullshitted on that.
AJ Holiday
I know I did. And now I'm like, I don't want to spend that time. I wanted to go to Barbados, and I don't want to spend that type of money on the flight now. And I only can go for, like, a couple days. You know, I want to go for the whole week, pack the cat up and be out.
Tammy
Well, why you can't. Why you can't go?
AJ Holiday
I'm gonna do something. I'm gonna do something. I'm gonna do something. Because I do want to definitely be on a beach this weekend. So I'm gonna figure it out last minute, hop in the car or the plane and get out of here for a couple days.
Tammy
Yeah, do it. Go somewhere.
AJ Holiday
Figure it out. I am making me some fairy wings. Now, what I heard recently, okay. Because what I did do this weekend is buy some furniture, some new furniture. And one of my homegirls who picked the chairs up, I needed, she. She helped me with her truck as she was leaving. I told her I was making fairy wings. So I did arts and crafts this weekend, and she told me, did you know, like, the fairy shit is like, another word for prostitution? I'm disgusted with you niggas.
Tammy
What?
AT&T Representative
How the fuck would y' all pervert fairies?
AJ Holiday
Yes.
Tammy
Is that true?
AJ Holiday
They're saying. I googled it. It's saying, like, fairy. If a woman says she's a fairy, that's like a cold word for selling pussy.
Tammy
Damn, not Tinkerbell been out here selling ass the whole time. And we need know.
AJ Holiday
I am so sick of man. Like, why do we pervert everything? Why we make everything positive and magical? Like, as negative as possible. Why does that happen? I was so disgusted.
Tammy
I ain't gonna lie. I need to eat lunch. Because when you said you, I thought you was making something to eat. I'm hungry than a. That sounds nice.
AJ Holiday
What's a fairy wing?
Tammy
How you season that?
AJ Holiday
Like little gold dust, like little gold sweet sour sauce, like some little gold flakes or something like that. Lemon pepper. Shame. Yeah. But I do much. This weekend, I did hot yoga and made some fairy wings. That's it.
Tammy
Get. This is.
AJ Holiday
So y' all. This is. This is so. For me. Okay? I don't know how y' all feel, but it says new. A new study. I don't Know how new it is. But it says new study shows women find men 60% more attractive if he can do manly tasks like mow the yard, fix a car and pick her up. And they use the imagery from Baby boy. You remember his mama with Vin Rhimes getting picked up in that kitchen? Yes, Lord. Okay. It's so funny to find out, you know. Did you ever see the video? I think she was on a Breakfast Club. I can't remember. I think she was a Breakfast Club aj. She said that she did like a threesome for her 50th birthday, but it was actually with two men. I mean, that's a threesome. Some people may consider it a train, but she said she had.
Tammy
Is it a only a threesome if they dicks touch, Right?
AJ Holiday
Why? Because they like buy at that point?
Tammy
No, because I thought threesome. Everybody's having sex with everybody.
AJ Holiday
That's what I thought so too. That's what I thought. But anyway.
Tammy
Over here. Unless it's peepee.
AJ Holiday
So it says studies show women find men up to 60 more attractive when they can do manly tasks like change the oil, chop wood, mow a lawn, carry her with ease, or drop and do push ups.
Tammy
It's not just man chopping some wood.
AJ Holiday
Me too. It's not just the muscles. It's the competence. Fixing things, lifting heavy, handling business without calling for help. And in a world of soft talkers and filters, being hands on is the new sexy. I've always been like, I like dirty, like, I like mechanics, I like truck drivers, I like niggas who could build me a house. Yeah, definitely niggas who chop wood. Those are my kind of guys.
Tammy
Is this nigga on Instagram, he got that curly hair, he brown skin and he'd be out there chopping wood.
AJ Holiday
Fine. Be eating that watermelon face in it. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, we like that. I like men, you know, that's cool.
Tammy
New study. That always been true, ain't it?
AJ Holiday
I don't think we. But women don't end up with these type of guys though. You know what I'm saying? You either end up with somebody, you got to do all the things, or maybe he has the finances to pay for somebody to do the things. But I really, I like to do things right. Even if I have the money. Like I don't want to spend it on certain things that I can read a book and figure out or watch YouTube and figure it out. So be underneath the hood of the car and all the things. And I like men who do that, who do Those same type of things. Like, I like. I like problem solvers, I like troubleshooters. You know what I'm saying?
Tammy
I don't like. I'm not getting under no car. I'll change a tire if I have to. And there's no cars passing by. And I can't just put a leg out to the street. But that's the only way I just.
AJ Holiday
Feel accomplished when I do things, you know what I'm saying? I. I like taking apart and putting it back together. That's just what I like to do. So I like somebody who can compliment that type of activity.
Tammy
Energy. Yeah, yeah, I get that. I like.
AJ Holiday
Yeah. My. My ex girl mama was like, don't dump him yet. I need him to finish the towel in my kitchen. We did that. Towel in the kitchen.
Tammy
You broke up with him?
AJ Holiday
Not immediately. So if you're listening, you know that really we were just laughing, me and my mama. Your bestie was just laughing and joking and playing, right? But shortly thereafter, yes, bitch, I did. After our mama got her child.
Tammy
So Ken Brown had the exotic dancer that was a part of the Cassie and Diddy case. That black man came out with the book Freezer Meat. And he proceeds to ask him, was the pussy good? Like, let us know how to put what the was hitting for. And I thought that was so crass and just. But then at the same time, I was like, I might have wanted to know.
AJ Holiday
Nasty. No, I don't want to know if Cassie pussy is good.
Tammy
But I mean, I'm just thinking about how, like, I talk with my friends. They tell me they had, you know, fun over the weekend. I might want it to be like.
AJ Holiday
What that dick here for? You know, send me a video.
Tammy
Yeah, so I get why he might ask that, but she is also a victim. And it's very public. And it just seemed very inappropriate to ask that man that. And he didn't even answer the question. Basically he was like, I don't. I couldn't even tell you because I just wasn't in it. Like, I was very concerned with my sexuality being tested by Diddy the whole time.
AJ Holiday
You know, it's just about him saying it on, like a public platform. Because, I mean, of course we have these. These conversations and, you know, there's really no man that believes that Cassie is a victim. Unfortunately, I. A very small percentage. And they're probably from our gay community, regular heterosexual men feel like Cassie got what she deserved. Cassie was doing all the things because she wanted to do it. Cassie was a willing participant. A lot of Them don't see the abuse part. You know what I'm saying? They don't see the, the, the, the, the, the coaching, the grooming. They don't see it. They just, you know, she signed up for that shit. That's really how they feel. So that's why Cameron can get on a podcast and ask was the pussy good? That is so disgusting. He get on my goddamn nerve. Like what the happened to his hairline?
Tammy
He was like.
AJ Holiday
It just got so like he need to get a new barber. Yeah, that, that, that got pushed back. It was like a half moon. Like the moon right now, dog crescent.
Tammy
It was just inappropriate. It, it was a valid question that I feel like men ask each other all the time, but it just was. You got to read the room, you know, you got to read the room. And that just was not nice or nobody wanted to hear that regarding this situation.
AJ Holiday
I think, yeah, I could have lived without it because you sent me that post and all I said was ill.
Tammy
I said, yuck. When I got it, when I was sent to me, it just was like.
AJ Holiday
Oh, you said that out loud. Grown ass fucking 50 year old nigga. Shut up. Anyway, yeah, you're too old to be.
Tammy
Just behaving that way.
AJ Holiday
Yeah, so. So Glorilla recently changed her profile picture to Michael Jackson after the nose job allegations.
Tammy
It ain't allegations. She said she did.
AJ Holiday
Yeah, she did. And it clearly looks like she got a nose job. I don't know how you feel about that. What do they call it? Rhinoplasty?
Tammy
I'm an advocate of do whatever makes you happy. I didn't. I liked her old nose, but it's about her liking her nose. So if she liked the new nose, you know, I'm here for it. I don't have no, but they, they eating her up because people are not happy with her nose. You know, people are not liking the nose. And then another girl, I can't remember who got theirs done, they was like, you got to let that nose sit a little while for it to heal and take Its the actual.
AJ Holiday
It says take like a year usually.
Tammy
So.
AJ Holiday
Yeah. Do you think Meg thee stallion and got her nose done? I don't know.
Tammy
Her nose does look different.
AJ Holiday
I think a lot of people, I mean, Beyonce clearly has a nose job. A lot of people. Most people, I believe probably got this type of work done. We know Cardi B got a nose job. Mary J. Blige got a nose job. Lil Kim got a million nose jobs. Like most people in the industry, they end up removing their daddy's noses. Like, this is my daddy nose.
Tammy
I like my nose. And it's wide and flat.
AJ Holiday
Girl, my nose big as a motherfucker. This is my daddy, daddy nose all day long. And I'm a keep it.
Tammy
Yeah, this is my nigga nose, and I love it.
AJ Holiday
Yeah, you can put enough makeup on it. You could put, like, some contouring on it.
Tammy
If you want it to have a point, you can contour it, but I don't even care about that. These titties, I want to do something. That's why I got no judgment for nobody. If I go on a vacation doing that suction thing to my titties, you know what I'm talking about?
AJ Holiday
Like, they do the booty. Yeah, that's gonna look crazy.
Tammy
I'm gonna do it. It'll probably be bruised up the whole vacation. My whole titties bruised up.
AJ Holiday
And the last night of vacation, your titty is gonna be gone. Wait a minute.
Tammy
Suck on them again. Put your mouth right here real hard so they can swell up.
AJ Holiday
Leave them teddies alone. The that we be worrying about, like, men do not give a. They don't.
Tammy
So I know it right under my arm. Armpit. If I lay back.
AJ Holiday
I know we say it's for us, right? Half the things we do. Is it really, though?
Tammy
Yeah, it's for us. Because. Don't care. I told you. He'll suck. Lay back and he'll suck it behind your armpit.
AJ Holiday
I don't know. Good luck with her and her nose. Like, I. I mean, she's a pretty girl regardless. Like, Glorilla is really a pretty girl in person. She got, like, a little distinct, unique look, but she's a pretty girl.
Tammy
She looked like Principal Hightower to me. She looks like. I don't know her real name, but her. And they're both beautiful.
AJ Holiday
Like, that's her kid or something, right?
Tammy
Yeah, she could have very well been her daughter.
AJ Holiday
Anyway, shout out to the new noses, Chad. Y' all have fun with that, y' all. So today we want to talk about clinical thinking. Not to be confused with critical thinking. Okay, so what's that, you ask? It's more of a way of thinking. It's more of a way of thinking that blends intuition, emotional intelligence, wisdom, and basically, like, lived experience. It's that fucking gut feeling, you know, that women have, right? It's clinical thinking that we're using. So it's like logic with a libido, basically, and boundaries.
Tammy
I can't wait to get into this shit.
Curtis 50 Cent Jackson
We'll be back if you're not watching BMF on Stars. You're seriously missing out from executive producer Curtis 50 Cent Jackson. The highly anticipated new season is coming in. Meech and Terry are leveling up. They're expanding their empire, launching a music label and making major moves in hip hop culture, even hitting the 1995 Source Awards. Oh, and did I mention Lamar is back. You already know that means trouble. The rest of the Flannery family is also feeling the pressure. Charles and Lucille are facing the consequences of Meech and Terry's actions, and Nicole is caught in the middle, dealing with her own growing pains. This season brings more drama, more heat and more star power. Get ready for guest stars like Kofi Cerebo, Skai Jackson, Tyler Lepley, Clifton Powell, Rockman Dunbar, Saweetie Miles Truitt and more. The cast is stacked and the storylines next level. BMF is where drama, hustle and hip hop collide and this season the stakes are higher than ever. Believe me, this is the season everyone's going to be talking about. Don't miss the explosive season premiere June 6 only on Starz and the Starz app.
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AJ Holiday
Like you dreamed it would and someone.
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AJ Holiday
Of the last one. Yeah, don't get me started.
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AJ Holiday
The first two months of 2025 have.
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AJ Holiday
All right, y' all. So we're back and we're talking clinical thinking, right? So that's your vibes, gut feelings, like the feminine intuition that not everybody has. And a lot of times we don't even be following our, our shit, but it's a real thing. You know, you do some shit and be like, you know what, I knew I knew better. Or like you think something about somebody and you're like, man, I knew this nigga aim and shit. And you still, you, you ignored your critical thinking skills basically.
Tammy
So sometimes that clinical thinking can have you thinking wrong too.
AJ Holiday
I don't think so. My clinical thinking be on point. It may not. It may not. Like at the very moment when you some shit happened, you think back and be like, I was right.
Tammy
I be fucking knowing sometimes my clitoris has led me astray.
AJ Holiday
He didn't do it.
Tammy
He's innocent. Because I love the so much he did that. He did that.
AJ Holiday
I think that's your heart you might have been thinking with. It wasn't the gut feeling.
Tammy
It wasn't the gut. It was my clitoris.
AJ Holiday
Well, maybe you need to tune yours out. Yours might not be off. I mean, yours might not be on.
Tammy
Completely love struck and lust struck by somebody that you kind of like don't pay attention to logic and reason.
AJ Holiday
Mm, yeah, but you thought it though, right? So your clinical thinking kicked in.
Tammy
But then I think my critical thinking kicked in. But my clinical thinking overpowered.
AJ Holiday
No, the clinical thinking ain't gonna never like, lead you wrong. That's what I'm saying. It's your heart and your mind that be fucking you up. The clinical Thinking is.
Curtis 50 Cent Jackson
Is.
Tammy
Is that innate out of the equation? I probably would have kept my good sense.
AJ Holiday
So what is a clinical thinker, one might ask, Right? So it's something in my spirit that says, this ain't right. And that's enough. That's all I really need. Right? Boundaries are just not up for debate. I don't need no more information. I need. I know exactly what's happening, and I picked up on it before you even put it down. Like, that's essentially what critical thinking is. So it kind of can be compared to like girl math a little bit. Right? So the things that make sense to women, that don't make sense to men. Because I don't think that men think as deep as women do on most subjects. Relationships, life. Like, they claim to be super simple.
Tammy
You just think these niggas is really fucking dumb, ain't it?
AJ Holiday
You know, this past weekend, I kind of said that shit to somebody a little bit. A little TT because they hard on these niggas. That is. I am not hard on men. Not at all. I don't. And really, I think collectively we may not be hard enough. They think we be being hard, but we really aren't. I'm not hard on men. I love men. I love black men in particular.
Tammy
A poll, A.J. hard on these.
AJ Holiday
And y' all say and you soft on. I might sound like I'm hard on them on this podcast, but in real life, bitch, who hard on a.
Tammy
Me, okay. In real life, yeah, I'd be. I'd be hard on. Okay?
AJ Holiday
I'm just talking about it.
Tammy
You give a more chances than I do. For sure.
AJ Holiday
That's what I'm saying. So, like, I'm talking about it, right? Because the more women talk about things, that means we are still trying. Is when you fucking stop talking about shit. Is when need to be worried. I don't care about y' all niggas no more, so. And I am. I open. I open the door for anybody to talk, say about whatever they want. Say whatever they want about black women. You know, if we have, there's plenty platforms for that. Okay, Adam. I'm not hard on men anyway. I do think a lot. A lot of them are stupid. And they think that, huh?
Tammy
I don't think these are stupid. I just think. And I think they do think as deep as us. I don't think. I just. When I say I'm harder than you, I don't know. I just don't be going for it. I don't. I don't. That's I guess why I had no nigga since 2016. I ain't going for it.
AJ Holiday
When I say men are stupid, okay, When a man says he's simple, what is he actually saying? Because I know that men are very, very, very, like, complex. Nothing simple about them.
Tammy
When I hear them say they simple, I don't think simple minded. I think like, they just want hot food and warm coochie and peace.
AJ Holiday
So one thing I listed is I'm simple. I don't like drama. Right. That, that's basically like the key words they're actually missing there is that I want to do what the fuck I want to do, and I want you to shut the fuck up. Okay? When they don't like drama, that's them not taking accountability. They don't want you. They don't want to have to get into the in depth conversation about something they could have possibly done. Or maybe you want something, you want change in the relationship. They don't want to talk about it. They want to be dismissive of your feelings. And they like to brush us off like, oh, you're so emotional. It's not like men are emotional too. Cause we always say motherfuckers die when men get emotional. So they just, to me, it's just lacking accountability and they can just scapegoat. I don't want to talk about it. You just full of drama. Why you always complainin' why you being petty? Because they don't want to take accountability for what it is that you have a problem with.
Tammy
Yeah, that's one reason why someone would say that.
AJ Holiday
Yeah. Because half the time we're just asking for clarity. So maybe you're not thinking deep enough. Right? This is actually stemming from a conversation I had with a grown man over the weekend. I'm like, man, I ain't calling you no more. I'm cool. As one of my friends, I'm like, I ain't talking to you no more. Because he basically told me that I'm never going to get a nigga to do all the things I want to do because I got masculine, masculine energy. He threw that on me. You know, the, the talking points from all the red pill on these podcasts. I'm a very. That's why when you say I'm hot on hard on men, that is just not true. Like, I guess I expect what I bring. Right? So like, and, and bring masculine energy how? Because I feel like to be a well rounded.
Tammy
What you bring, you should expect from a man something different than what you're bringing. You should Be bringing your feminine softness.
AJ Holiday
I feel like you got to bring both. I feel like men should be soft sometimes, too. Masculinity is not just because this. This friend of mine, to him, masculinity is like cussing his family out. That is not like. That's. Yeah, men are respectful. That's not masculinity. Like, men have control, right? That, to me, is masculinity being in control of your emotions, maybe being a little bit more stoic and not like cussing everybody out, like wanting to fight and shit like that. Like that. That's. To me, that's not masculinity. Masculinity is more assertive, is more calculated. But really, those, when you think about it, are those not feminine traits? I think women, we think more critically, right? Clinically, I believe.
Tammy
I feel like we haven't been allowed to be our greatest feminine selves as black women. We don't just get to, like, exist, be soft and be just cared for and docile. I don't ever. I don't ever remember the women in my life being able to just live in that type of energy and be just cared for. They always taking care of business, always handling everything, always responsible for everybody, even the men.
AJ Holiday
And I think so now I'm more so in a mindset is that I am now forcing you. I'm forcing whoever I deal with to be the man I'm no longer.
Tammy
But you can't force nobody.
AJ Holiday
That's what I'm. That's what I'm saying. So right now I'm just the. Is just me existing, right?
Tammy
So I'm.
AJ Holiday
No, I don't want to have to force somebody to be what it is that whatever it is a man is and whatever masculinity actually looks like. This is really not for women to define, you know what I'm saying? So. So men have to define it. But I know it doesn't look like cussing your kids and wife out. That's not what the fuck masculinity looks like. And you definitely can't talk to me. Fucking crazy. So I don't know. But.
Tammy
But what are the kids and wife doing?
AJ Holiday
I think his shit came out of frustration because he does everything for his family.
Tammy
Okay, well, then that's fair.
AJ Holiday
That's not fair. No, you just. Because you are the provider. So you mean to tell me, if you were to actually lock in a nigga who's like, full provider and all your needs, he then gets to cuss you out when he gets frustrated.
Tammy
If I deserve it, what could you.
AJ Holiday
Do to possibly deserve that.
Tammy
Maybe I'm he doing everything and I'm just being so ungrateful. And the kids don't listen, and I'm just being a. Maybe I deserve to shut the up, Tammy. Yes, yes, yes, daddy.
AJ Holiday
See you toxic.
Tammy
How's that? You don't believe that sometimes people deserve. They need to get cussed out.
AJ Holiday
I don't never need anybody to tell me to shut the up. Sometimes you do. Who the you talking to?
Tammy
Sometimes you need to shut the up, though.
AJ Holiday
No, never.
Tammy
You don't never need to shut the up?
AJ Holiday
Nope.
Tammy
No.
AJ Holiday
When I need to shut the up, I don't be talking. And see, that's just when you be confused when I'm talking, that's when you think.
Tammy
But sometimes other people, especially a partner, might feel like, hey, you need to shut the fuck up.
AJ Holiday
That's not what I've heard, though, in my relationships. What I've heard in my relationships is that I be building RICO charges against niggas. Like, I just let all these things add up and then I finally say something about it. Right now it's a fucking problem that. Why didn't you say this, that before? Like, if I had said something, every single infraction, then I'd be nagging. So what is it that you really want?
Tammy
Yeah, but don't nobody want no rico. God damn, that was last December, Bitch.
AJ Holiday
Nigga said I be building a RICO charge. Like, it's not a RICO Cases that I don't nag about every infraction. You know what I'm saying? And then especially, like, when you cohabitating with somebody, you have to be cognizant and conscious that it's not just you. Right? So you gotta make that other person comfortable. And you expect the same thing because y' all have to be in one place forever together. So, no, I'm not nagging by every little fucking thing. Right. But if one need to lead to the next and then to the next, to the next and next, now I'm about to. Yeah, the RICO is fucking pending.
Tammy
I don't know if that's a good practice.
AJ Holiday
I don't know what to do then.
Tammy
The only time I think that's a good practice is when you stacking them up to leave. Otherwise, you should address everything as it happens. If it's. If it bothers you. Yeah, you're stacking them up to say, hey, this is why I'm leaving. Then don't. Don't pull that.
AJ Holiday
I've definitely done that too. I write a journal on have a whole journal letter written like, hey, this is exactly why we're no longer. I have definitely done that.
Tammy
Because one thing I don't like is if, let's say I have an issue with my man and I bring him the issue and then instead of him addressing that issue, he goes to tell me something from last May that made him mad. It's like, why didn't you tell me when it made you mad? Why are you trying to deflect from what I counter?
AJ Holiday
Yeah, your thing today.
Tammy
Yeah, don't do that now because you're just trying to, like, minimize what I'm saying by something that you were upset about it in May and I could have corrected that in May had you said something. But now I'm just pissed off.
AJ Holiday
Yeah.
Tammy
And nobody hearing. Nobody at this point.
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AJ Holiday
So. So back to men saying that they're simple. Another example of that is I'm simple. I don't need much. My needs are basic. And that translates to feed me me. Yeah, that's let me chill and don't ask me any questions. Right? But what's really underneath? Okay, so, you know, it may seem low maintenance on the surface, but it may also mean that they're just really suppressing like, their emotions. And men often say how they have nobody to talk to. Right? They don't talk to their friends. They don't talk to their woman. Like, they don't tell people what they're actually experiencing on the inside. And some may think that's masculinity, right? Just. Just dealing and not actually speaking up and saying when something's bothering you, when you're having a problem.
Tammy
But I think that's not even black. A man thing. I think that's a black thing. We are definitely, like. We just deal happening. We just keep going, just keep pushing. That's it. Don't talk to nobody. Just.
AJ Holiday
I don't. Okay. So, like, the clinical counter. The clinical thinking counter to that is it doesn't mean you have to be, like, emotionally unavailable. Do you actually know what you need? Are you used to not even being asked what the fuck you need? Because men ask what you bring into the table, but what do you need on the table? Do you know what you need as a man? Do you know what you need out your partner? If you ask a man that, half the time they don't fucking know.
Tammy
They don't know.
AJ Holiday
They don't know what they want to eat. And they keep putting it on us as if we don't know what we want to eat. Imagine if your nigga say what you want to eat? And you like, I don't care. Just whatever in the first place, he says, you, like, yeah, that would kill that whole argument, right? It's really because they don't know what they want to eat. So they. Yeah, so they put it on us. That's a small example of how the responsibility. We so responsible for everybody.
Tammy
But here's the thing, because I've had that happen, he'll be like, what you want to eat? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't care. And he picks something. I'm like, I don't want that.
AJ Holiday
Or you pick something and he get there with the menu. And, like, I don't see nothing on here. I want you. You. You had an opportunity to choose. So that could go both ways. Why is the onus always on a woman? Why I got to be concerned about your stomach and mine? What do you want?
Tammy
Like, that's the woman's job to be like, the.
AJ Holiday
The nourishment.
Tammy
Yeah. The nutritionist for the family.
AJ Holiday
Not in the dating, I guess, right? When you.
Tammy
If I see a whole fat family, it's the mama fault. Don't kill me. Y' all don't kill me.
AJ Holiday
I'm sorry. I agree. I agree. Because I remember when one of my sisters and she extra fine right now, child, but you know, she be letting her family still eat bullshit while she's dieting. That is not okay. I need you to make sure that they're eating whole foods as well. Like you know what I'm saying? You want to be the only one alive because that's what I'm seeing, right? You know what I'm saying? My nephew be in noodles. This got 800 milligrams of sodium in it.
Tammy
Them shits is so high, they're not even.
AJ Holiday
It's not even real food.
Tammy
I listen. If it was the apocalypse and that was all that was left to eat, I would just go ahead and die. I cannot stand a fucking pack of noodles because I ate so much of that shit between middle school and high school. I ate it every way you could think of it. Put an egg in it, put some sausage. I even ate noodles dry before, like potato chips.
AJ Holiday
That's a real struggle meal. That's really disgusting.
Tammy
It's gross. I'll never eat another noodle. A heck of noodles. Forget about it.
AJ Holiday
I did used to like those little cup noodles with the peas and stuff in there. You didn't like those?
Tammy
Not even peas, that is 3D printed peas. What kind of people's day. Oh, dried ass, 3D printed peas with that.
AJ Holiday
All right, y' all. So we're gonna go through like clinical thinking versus critical thinking so you can get better understand where it is I'm coming from. Right? So let's break this down real quick because like traditional critical thinking is like spreadsheets and data analytics and shit like that. And again, like critical thinking is based off of lived experience, like your intuition. So critical thinking is like logical, objective, rational. Right, Analytical, like step by step detached from emotion. Typically masculine coded clinical thinking is intuitive, emotionally intelligent. Okay, So I think that most of the. Most of the people who claim to be emotional, intelligent or have emotional intelligence are probably women, right? Because we do tap into our emotions a little bit more. We do anticipate others, the needs of others over hours a lot of times. You know, I'm saying we know what you need before you even know what you need. That's what emotional intelligence is. And you know, I don't think men are even programmed to think in that way. But we want them to have all of this emotional intelligence. We think that's what we want from them. I don't know. Critical thinking is also like informed by patterns. Just people's vibes, past experiences rooted in self trust and boundary setting. So for example, say, for instance, your ex like, calls you like one o' clock in the morning. In the morning, right? You chilling, drinking wine, listening to music. Critical thinking. I have you thinking, like, I wonder what he wants, right? I wonder if it's. If it's an emergency. Critical thinker would be like, man, fuck him. I'm not answering the phone. You just block him mid phone call and keep drinking your wine and listening to music. That's political thinking. I don't need to know what this nigga needs. I don't care, okay? I'mma just block his ass because I already know what that involves. I already know what he coming for. So why even engage?
Tammy
Girl, I listen. That's so crazy because I One of my old thing things.
AJ Holiday
Hot shits, what they call them? Fine shits.
Tammy
He wasn't. It just shits. One of my old shits.
AJ Holiday
One of my old shits.
Tammy
Go message me. Dm. Oh no. On Facebook messenger. Please unblock me.
Curtis 50 Cent Jackson
Why?
Tammy
I just need to talk to you. Please unblock me. So I unblocked this and he called me and he gonna say some about do my other ex that he know about still sell weed.
AJ Holiday
I was like, so he calling you for plug talk.
Tammy
Yeah.
AJ Holiday
Not you to connect.
Tammy
I hung up so fast.
AJ Holiday
Not you. A relationship manager.
Tammy
And reblock that just as quick. Like, hey, you should be the feds.
AJ Holiday
Like, what, you trying to set my other nigga up?
Tammy
I don't know what you talking about. One shit to from another shit. I ain't got nothing to do with that. Put two shits together. No.
AJ Holiday
Yeah, like. And oftentimes they don't want nothing, right?
Tammy
They don't want nothing. Leave me alone. I don't know. I don't do drugs. Leave me alone.
AJ Holiday
Here's another example. So you've gone on like three amazing dates, but your gut is uneasy, right? So they're attractive, they're like successful, consistent. And maybe I should keep seeing him. But your critical thinking is he gives like love bombing, right? Disappear. He might disappear later. Like your nervous system is on edge. Fucking with this person. You just know something's off with him. He might have even did. He probably didn't even do anything just yet. But you just know that is your clinical thinking skills kicking in, which could probably save your fucking life. Because many relationships I've. Most relationships I've been in, I probably should have left day one. It was some shit that happened that I just. Let me get the fuck up out of here. Abort mission. And I stayed for a couple years.
Tammy
But here's the thing. Nobody's gonna be perfect, though. So it's okay to, like, ignore something minor.
AJ Holiday
Is it though? Because if we look at the data of these relationships, is it good to ignore? I mean, if it's.
Tammy
I don't want to say fractions. Like, you don't like how you chew. You know, shit like that. You can get past that, right? Or you can groom that into something else. But if you see that is the problem.
AJ Holiday
Y' all bitches thinking y' all could change people at this big age. People do change. I don't agree.
Tammy
People mask like, you the same person you was when we started this show. No, you've grown.
AT&T Representative
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AJ Holiday
But so growing and changing, are those the same thing? Is that the same thing? Yes, because I really. I've been literally the same person. And even like. No, let me. Let me not lie, because I'd be reading some, like, some of my old Facebook shit and Twitter shit. I had to delete that stuff. Like, what the. The was I talking about? You're dumb.
Tammy
What.
AJ Holiday
What were you talking about?
Tammy
We forgot to say we're changing and growing every day. So just. Even the. I just went and listened to, like, our first episode. I'm like superhero by night or some. I was saying, what did you talk about?
AJ Holiday
And you being dumbass. So, yeah.
Tammy
So people do change. People do grow. People and men too. Especially when they start. They dig, stop working as good. They really start changing in interesting. They have daughters. They start changing when they have little girls. Stuff like that would change a man. But don't nothing them. Change them worse than they did. Stop it.
AJ Holiday
Hey, humble them a little bit.
Tammy
Yeah, that dick strength changer or the desire.
AJ Holiday
I don't even know if that's true because I feel like they still be wanting to put that gummy worm on a. Like, just. Still just getting a new to show her. The gummy worm is still exciting to them. They don't care about being embarrassed.
Tammy
They'll be tired.
AJ Holiday
That wet rag. They just want to stuff it in as many as possible. All right, so, like, a friend keeps subtly throwing shade. Critical thinking. Maybe I'm just being too sensitive. Let me watch a few more interactions to confirm clinical thinking. That comment hit sideways. She's not for me. Distance activated. You know what time it is? Like, don't trick yourself into thinking somebody ain't doing what they doing. I have been around people where somebody says some sideways shit. I'm gonna address it right then and there because I. I have lit things like sliding and I get home, like, saying I shoulda, woulda, coulda. And I'd be disappointed with myself. Like, damn, I should have. I should have cussed that out. I should have.
Tammy
From 2000. It was 2012 that I still think about cussing her ass out. And I let some she said slide. And I used to regret it, right? I still, like, I be laying in bed like, I should have. Oh, if I see that bitch to this day.
AJ Holiday
Look, I have a first cousin that I don't fuck with on any level in my mind, right? Because of it might have been around, like, it might have been earlier than 2012. Did I ever tell y' all this story? So my cousin asked me to be in her wedding.
Tammy
Oh, yeah, you just shared.
AJ Holiday
No, hold on. She didn't ask me to be in her wedding. She asked me to be the usher. Yeah, okay. This is my first cousin. So imagine you living in Atlanta and a bitch calling you, asking you to come to South Carolina to come to her wedding but be an usher, right? So when I thought about it, I'm like, I don't think I want to do that. I talked to my mom about it. She was like, girl, you don't be no Usher. So I called her back. I said, hey, you know what? I think I prefer just, like, attending the wedding, right? Girl, why? I got to the. She had a bridal shower, and I guess her maid of honor, her bestie, was like, the spokesperson for the shit they had spoke about me. And she was introducing each of us. She introduced my sister Sam first. She's like, yes, my cousin Sam. This is my cousin introducing us to her maid of honor. And this is my cousin Sam. And this is Ashley. And the homegirl, these AKA too. The homegirl was like, oh, she's not in the wedding. She's not a bridesmaid usher or anything. And my voice literally was gone, y' all. I have, like, laryngitis or something. Like, I had no voice. So imagine me, I would sound like this, trying to curse a out. But this is how my cousin let some random play with me. She. My cousin barely know my life. And I'm still holding to this day, I still want to have that conversation with her because I'm trying to figure out why the y' all thought y' all could play with me just because I didn't want to serve food to my family at this big, immaculate wedding. Like, why would you try to, like, downgrade me to a server? Am I tripping, y' all?
Tammy
Yeah, girl.
AJ Holiday
So my best friend at the time, she was dating my first Cousins. So she's dating my cousin. She ended up doing it with. She ended up doing it instead. They were black and white like a fucking waitress. And she had people from the church doing it. Why did you need me to do that?
Tammy
So you were the only family member that was gonna be an usher?
AJ Holiday
Yes, yes. My other cousins was bridemaids. Why? I don't want to. And I live. I live out of town. We barely speak. Like your mind told you to call me to do that. And it's not like I like.
Tammy
Maybe she like your cooking and wanted you to help with the food.
AJ Holiday
Imagine, like one of these Instagram weddings. That's how her reception looked. I mean, big, long rolls of food, like all this food, like these ushers. That. The thing that she wanted me to do, what my best friend was doing, was serving food to our family with a black and white outfit on. Why would you have your first cousin doing that?
Tammy
So I get that. In the event that no family was working, then I get why I was like, why you only asked me. And you got people outside of the family doing everything. But I'm the only family member.
AJ Holiday
The venue came with people. It came with staff.
Tammy
If it was just like, I need my family to help assist to make this day beautiful, then I would not mind a mind doing that. I wouldn't mind being an usher because it's not about me. It's about her. Her beautiful day. And this is my cousin. I want her to have a beautiful day. So I will. I'll help. Because when it's my turn, I'm gonna need everybody in the same.
AJ Holiday
I would never call my first cousin and ask her to serve food at my wedding. I would never do.
Tammy
Do that to her if it was.
AJ Holiday
That's degrading. That's how I felt. That was highly degrading. Like, I'm your first cousin. Like, why would you want me serving food to our family?
Tammy
Families. Families do that, though. Families.
AJ Holiday
Yeah. This ain't been no bullshit wedding, though. See, you not thinking on the scale. I said one of these Instagram fucking weddings. The shit was immaculate. Why? And I bought the fucking most beautiful dress to wear to her wedding. Because that's.
Tammy
Because it wasn't like that. It wasn't like a situation where the whole family was, you know.
AJ Holiday
Yeah. Pitching it and helping. No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't nothing like that. My homegirl was pissed the whole time because she didn't know what all it would entail either. When she accepted the position as an usher. Yeah. And she was Serving us food. That's. That's up. To have your brother's girlfriend, who should be his date at your wedding, doing that. But because they used to have a problem with her because they. My uncle, their dad never really fucked him. I mean, from a little girl. He would say shit like, to me, oh, haircuts, Miss Glamour Queen. Like, still to this day, that's how you treat me. So I feel like that kind of rubbed off on like, his kids and how they see me. Well, maybe not my. My boy cousins, but it's something there. So. Yeah, I still have like. Yeah, some Anna. I have some Anna. About that.
Tammy
Have you seen this cousin?
AJ Holiday
Absolutely. But I just feel like now I can't address it because then it would be petty. But it bothers me.
Tammy
I've been married 17 years and divorced.
AJ Holiday
They're still married. So I like, I just gotta let it go. But I'm telling y' all because, like, who the fuck else I'mma tell if she happened to listen to the fucking.
Tammy
Show, then she come to you about it, right?
AJ Holiday
And then we'll talk about it at that time. And you know what the worst thing about it is? People do things and then when you address it, they'd be like, I don't even remember that. Yeah, because you weren't on the receiving end of the.
Tammy
Yeah, but sometimes people don't even know that they're offending you. So that's why it's important to address it. Like, I didn't. I don't remember it because I didn't know it was a thing.
AJ Holiday
Oh, she's not a bridesmaid Usher or anything. Why you ain't ask my sister that.
Tammy
Right?
AJ Holiday
It was introduced right before me.
Tammy
They had a conversation about you.
AJ Holiday
That's what I fucking know. And this is what clinical thinking is, right? It's just you knowing the bullshit and can't nobody tell you any different, bitch, because this is. It's a gut feeling. It is an inner knowing that cannot be fucking debated. I'm not tripping. Y' all bitches tried me. Y' all really tried it. So I was never able to address it. So I still. I. That shit might have been 2009, bitch. I ain't gonna lie. I much gonna lie. It might have been like 2009. I still feel some type of way about that shit, cuz why did I deserve that? That's what bothers me when people do things.
Tammy
What the fuck you think you are, you fly ass bitch? Coming up in here, think you gonna upstage the bride? You Ain't gonna do that this time, bitch. Serve out that chicken hoe. That's what you gonna do.
AJ Holiday
And here's the thing, here's my personality. When I tell y' all, when I get married, y' all motherfuckers better show up like this y' wedding all, that's how I feel. That's how confident I am about myself. I know that's where that bullshit came from, right? Them not wanting me to show up in all my motherfucking glory. But for my wedding. Bitch, if you were to wedding party, if you just a wedding guest, when I tell y' all, y' all better act like this. Y' all shit for birthdays, I want everybody to be extra fucking fine. I never like one of those people who don't want their friends to outdress them on a fucking birthday. That is weirdo behavior.
Tammy
I don't care about my birthday. But at my wedding, please don't come in a white dress.
AJ Holiday
I don't care.
Tammy
Don't come in a white wedding.
AJ Holiday
Bitch, your whole ass ain't should have on a white dress anyway.
Tammy
I am. You bet my wear one bitch. Pull it up in my bitch.
AJ Holiday
I might wear a black dress in my wedding.
Tammy
My wedding. I'mma be like, do you hate me?
AJ Holiday
Yeah. But it's never going to look like a wedding gown though. You know what I'm saying? So even if somebody were to have on a white dress, it's never going to look like a wedding gown.
Tammy
Tacky ass coming in a white dress to a wedding girl.
AJ Holiday
I'll be, I'll be like all white wedding.
Tammy
Why are you here? Are you trying to give your man a message to propose to you?
AJ Holiday
Maybe. And it listen, it's all open over here. Yes, do that. And if you feel beautiful today, I want everybody to feel good.
Tammy
But I don't want you to be tacky. Don't be tacky.
AJ Holiday
I don't think that's tacky.
Tammy
Don't be attacking. I invited you because I didn't think you were one. And here you come being one.
AJ Holiday
Yeah, I don't know.
Tammy
You can listen.
AJ Holiday
Wear anything.
Tammy
Wear tie dye to this. Don't come in white.
AJ Holiday
Like a black tie event. No white even black tie. No white.
Tammy
No, no white dress. You can have a dress with white in it. The wrong with you.
AJ Holiday
Yeah, I want everybody to look that.
Tammy
Feel good escorting me out of the window.
AJ Holiday
Uninvited. And after she showed up, right.
Tammy
The bride will call you later. That's what they gonna tell you as you leave out the door. I done waited all these years to get married. You coming to my.
AJ Holiday
In a white dress.
Tammy
You got me up.
AJ Holiday
But there's no way for her to look like you, though, on that day. That's why I'm confused.
Tammy
No, and you damn right you won't, because you won't be in this.
AJ Holiday
Y' all hear that? You've been warned.
Tammy
Yes, in advance. But I think all my friends know that. They got sense enough to know not to come to a wedding and a white dress unless it's all white. Wedding, where some people have that, where everybody comes in white, which I don't like that either. Yeah, but. Yeah, don't do that.
AJ Holiday
Look at your little ponytails up in the Riverside picture. You see it? All right, so y' all, critical thinking doesn't mean ignore logic at all, right? So it just adds, like, an extra layer of protection. Okay? Emotional wisdom, pattern recognition based on just the fucking truth. Right? It's just, you know, that's intelligence, too. So don't let anybody tell you that you making shit up that is just feelings or that you overreacting. Bitch, you know what? You know, and that's clinical thinking. So it's not overanalyzing everything. It's not ignoring facts or feelings or facts for feelings, I should say. Or it's just not like just being petty or sassy. It's just recognizing the patterns again, knowing your fucking gut and trusting that inner feeling. That's it. That is what critical thinking is. Hats coming soon. All right, so you know what I do want people to do? I want y' all to send me. Send me some. Send us some messages with, like, your best. He said he was simple, but stories. That's what I want to see. Like, what did a man tell you? Like, he said, I'm simple, but such and such. And how did he actually act? Right? All men say that they're simple and they have these minimal needs. I want to hear the stories.
Tammy
Yeah, let's hear it. Hear that.
AJ Holiday
Because them ain't simple. Anyway. You good, Tammy.
Tammy
Yeah, I love y' all girls.
AJ Holiday
All right, y' all, if you enjoyed this episode, y' all tune in every Thursday on the Black Effect I Heart radio app or wherever the you get your podcast at. This show, co host, AJ Holiday on Instagrams, y' all. Follow, subscribe, share, share, share the podcast with your besties. Leave a review if you feeling froggy. I wish I could comment back on reviews, but it's all welcome. Thank you.
Tammy
Yes.
AJ Holiday
We want. We want the listens. We want the spins. Okay.
Tammy
Yeah. All right, y' all. It's official. T. Bam, I love y' all so much.
AJ Holiday
Remember, speak now and never hold your peace, okay? Never, never hold your gut feelings, your clit notes.
Tammy
Deuces.
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Summer on the south side of Chicago is heating up. You planning revenge, Aren't you? The chi is back. May 16th on Paramount. It's the season of the women. Women, this is our chance. It's time to get to work. But the men aren't giving up without a fight. Trees are always gonna have a villain. No one is backing down in the Showtime original series from Emmy award winner Lena Waithe. Why do Black women always have to save the day?
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If we don't do it, who else will?
AJ Holiday
The shy new season streaming May 16th on the Paramount with Showtime plan. This is an Iheart podcast.
We Talk Back: Episode Summary - "Clitical Thinking"
Release Date: June 5, 2025
Hosts: TamBam and AJ Holiday
Podcast: We Talk Back by The Black Effect and iHeartPodcasts
In this episode titled "Clitical Thinking," hosts TamBam and AJ Holiday delve into the nuanced concept of clinical thinking, distinguishing it from traditional critical thinking. They explore how clinical thinking integrates intuition, emotional intelligence, wisdom, and lived experiences, serving as a powerful tool for navigating relationships and personal decisions.
AJ Holiday [23:11]:
"So, it's like logic with a libido, basically, and boundaries."
The hosts begin by unpacking the differences between clinical and critical thinking. While critical thinking is often associated with logical, objective, and analytical processes—traits traditionally coded as masculine—clinical thinking is portrayed as more intuitive and emotionally intelligent, qualities frequently attributed to feminine perspectives.
AJ Holiday [50:30]:
"Traditional critical thinking is like spreadsheets and data analytics... Clinical thinking is intuitive, emotionally intelligent."
TamBam [27:31]:
"Sometimes that clinical thinking can have you thinking wrong too."
AJ counters, emphasizing that clinical thinking is grounded in a deep-seated intuition that, more often than not, is reliable.
AJ Holiday [27:45]:
"It's something in my spirit that says, this ain't right. And that's enough. That's all I really need."
A significant portion of the discussion centers on relationship dynamics, particularly the expectations placed on men and how these intersect with clinical thinking. The hosts critique the notion of men claiming to be "simple," uncovering the complexities behind such statements.
AJ Holiday [34:03]:
"I feel like you got to bring both. I feel like men should be soft sometimes, too. Masculinity is not just because this... That's not masculinity. Masculinity is more assertive, is more calculated."
TamBam [31:12]:
"I don't think these are stupid. I just think... When I say I'm harder than you, I don't know. I just don't be going for it."
They discuss how men often mask their emotional needs and the societal pressure to appear strong and unbothered, which can hinder authentic communication and intimacy in relationships.
TamBam shares a personal story about being asked to serve food at her cousin’s wedding, highlighting the complexities of family expectations and personal boundaries.
TamBam [60:09]:
"Families do that, though. Families."
AJ Holiday [60:15]:
"I never call my first cousin and ask her to serve food at my wedding. That's degrading."
This anecdote underscores the importance of setting boundaries and how clinical thinking empowers individuals to honor their feelings and maintain healthy relationships.
The conversation progresses to the importance of emotional intelligence and boundary-setting in personal relationships. The hosts emphasize that clinical thinking aids in recognizing and acting upon one's gut feelings, preventing unhealthy attachments and fostering self-respect.
AJ Holiday [44:03]:
"So like, it's logic with a libido, basically, and boundaries."
TamBam [35:04]:
"I feel like we haven't been allowed to be our greatest feminine selves as black women... responsible for everybody, even the men."
They advocate for women embracing their intuition and emotional intelligence to navigate complex social and romantic landscapes effectively.
The hosts provide practical examples of how clinical thinking can be applied in everyday situations, such as handling unsolicited calls from ex-partners or recognizing red flags in new relationships.
AJ Holiday [52:55]:
"What you want? So, y' all bitches thinking y' all could change people at this big age. People do change. I don't agree."
TamBam [53:03]:
"I don't want to say fractions. Like, you don't like how you chew... You can get past that, right?"
They stress the importance of addressing issues as they arise rather than stacking grievances, which can lead to resentment and strained relationships.
Towards the end of the episode, TamBam and AJ Holiday empower their listeners to trust their clinical thinking, encouraging them to speak up and set clear boundaries in all aspects of their lives.
AJ Holiday [65:05]:
"So, you know, critical thinking doesn't mean ignoring logic at all, right? So it just adds, like, an extra layer of protection."
TamBam [68:02]:
"Remember, speak now and never hold your peace, okay? Never, never hold your gut feelings, your clit notes."
They conclude by inviting listeners to share their stories, particularly instances where men have claimed to be simple but failed to meet those claims in action, fostering a community of shared experiences and mutual support.
AJ Holiday [23:11]:
"So it's like logic with a libido, basically, and boundaries."
AJ Holiday [34:03]:
"I feel like you got to bring both. I feel like men should be soft sometimes, too. Masculinity is not just because this... That's not masculinity. Masculinity is more assertive, is more calculated."
TamBam [35:04]:
"I feel like we haven't been allowed to be our greatest feminine selves as black women... responsible for everybody, even the men."
AJ Holiday [65:05]:
"So, you know, critical thinking doesn't mean ignoring logic at all, right? So it just adds, like, an extra layer of protection."
TamBam [68:02]:
"Remember, speak now and never hold your peace, okay? Never, never hold your gut feelings, your clit notes."
In "Clitical Thinking," TamBam and AJ Holiday offer a compelling discussion on the intersection of intuition, emotional intelligence, and logical reasoning in personal and relational contexts. They advocate for women, especially black women, to harness their innate clinical thinking to navigate the complexities of relationships, set healthy boundaries, and empower themselves in a world that often undervalues their emotional and intuitive strengths.
Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own experiences, trust their gut feelings, and engage in open conversations about the dynamics of masculinity and emotional intelligence in their lives.
For more episodes, follow We Talk Back on the Black Effect and iHeartPodcasts platforms.