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- [00:01]
A
As soccer takes center stage this summer, Comcast helps bring the experience home to America. As the exclusive Spanish language home of the tournament in the US Telemundo is set to present its most expansive coverage ever. 700 hours of programming, live on site presence at all 104 matches and with multi view and real time 4K Xfinity will deliver the most innovative and immersive sports viewing experience for fans watching on Telemundo, Peacock, Fox and FS1. Learn more at ComcastCorporation.com
- [00:32]
B
if you've ever blasted synth beats from your boombox or burned CDs for your besties, this one's for you. As people get older, much like their music tastes, their health needs change. AG1 is the simple daily health drink designed to deliver over 75 essential daily nutrients in pre and probiotics to support energy, digestion and mood so you can make the most out of every decade and dance break. Learn more@drinkag1.com My name is Zach Cherumsky,
- [01:01]
A
I'm 36 years old from Chicago. I here to tell a story of a neck injury I had about just over 15 years ago. I dove into a shallow part of a Lake at 1am When I was 20 years old, just after my sophomore year of college. I was with my brother, a lot of our friends. When I dove in, I was immediately paralyzed from the neck down. I remained conscious through the entire experience, well, at least until I got into the ambulance. But as I was underwater, I fully was aware of what was happening. Obviously I wasn't able to surface. I was completely helpless. It was like I said, one o' clock in the morning, so pitch dark. Everyone was drinking. I wasn't, thankfully, but I pretty much had given up hope that anyone would be able to locate me. There wasn't any way for me to like signal anyone.
- [02:03]
B
Pitch black, I'm assuming, right?
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A
I'm sorry.
- [02:05]
B
It was pitch black outside of actually it was.
- [02:08]
A
There were storms coming in. It was already kind of like there's lightning in the sky. But someone had the idea, hey, let's go night swimming. We are at my brother's girlfriend's house at the time and her doc was like at the bottom of a hill. So like the main house was not far but out of like shouting distance. There were only a few of us actually down on the dock. I had actually just gotten there and it was late in the night, but at 20 years old it was still pretty early, you know, like fully intending to like start drinking at some point that night. We were up there for it was like a country music festival that was pretty big in the area in southeastern Wisconsin we would go to every year.
- [02:51]
B
So you were not in your hometown?
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A
No.
- [02:54]
B
Okay.
- [02:54]
A
Yeah. Our family has a house on the same lake or across the street from the lake. But I grew up on that lake. I taught sailing school on the lake, learned how to water ski there, spent all my summers there.
- [03:07]
B
I worked familiar with the. With the lake in the area. And you had obviously been in it plenty of times.
- [03:12]
A
Yeah. And actually our dock was maybe 100 yards from the one I dove off of that night. I didn't do anything differently. It's just that little difference in depth made all the difference in the world.
- [03:26]
B
Yeah.
- [03:27]
A
And it was myself, one of my best friends, Jake, my brother's girlfriend, and maybe a couple other people that were down there initially at least, to just jump in, like, cool off, you know? And then we had the whole weekend to look forward to with the concert. And there was probably 30 of us up there from. Mainly from our high school. And my brother's girlfriend, she went to high school with us. She was a year in between us, so my brother's two years younger. She was in the year between. So our friend groups kind of blended together, and that's what we were doing all summer, just during the week. Like, I had a painting job, make some extra cash for the semester coming up, and then we just do teenager things, like, all weekend. So my parents weren't up there at the time because this was a Thursday night. So we went up a little bit early for this concert specifically. So myself, my brother, and a couple of our friends just crashing at our family's place. No adult supervision there. There were adults at the house we were at, though, and it wasn't like they, like, facilitated or, like, you know, like. I mean, I'm sure they were aware, but, like, not really what, like, was going on. It's just a different kind of lifestyle up there. It's kind of like, you know, Wisconsin. Like, nothing bad could happen. Nothing bad ever did happen. And that was kind of like the event that broke that illusion in more ways than one. So when I dove in, like I said, I'd given up pretty much all hope. It wasn't like how you hear about it in the movies where, like, your life flashes before your eyes. You don't, like, think about, like, you're. At least myself, like, I wasn't, like, thinking about, like, my loved ones or, like, regrets or is, like, very peaceful. Surprisingly, I was. It just felt like that was what was supposed to Happen.
- [05:26]
B
Do you think you were going to die?
- [05:28]
A
I did, yeah. For sure. And I remember thinking, for some reason I was aware that, you know, when you drown, it's not because necessarily you can't breathe. It's because when you do try to breathe, you inhale all the water in your lungs. And that's what is, like, you know, what ends up killing you. And so I was trying, like, as hard as I could to, like, not do that, but knew my time was running out. And apparently what happened was at least this is the story. I don't know how true this is because I don't even see how it's possible, but I bit Lindsay's leg. Lindsay was my brother's girlfriend. And she, you know, thought I was, like, flirting or, I don't know, like playing around, and then realized I wasn't responding at all. I was face down in the water. She flipped me over, like, brought me above and, you know, scream for help.
- [06:23]
B
Was she the only one in the water at that time?
- [06:26]
A
I think so. There might have been one or two others, but there were only a handful of us down there at the time. So she screamed for help. Her brothers, her older brothers ran down. They pulled me out, put me on the dock, and obviously everyone else came running down. And I was just laying flat, like, kind of thinking like I was in shock and that was the reason I couldn't move.
- [06:54]
B
And
- [06:57]
A
it quickly became apparent, like it was a much bigger issue than that, just based on the reactions of everyone around me. You know, it's like, Obviously, like, call 91 1, like, get Lindsay's parents. Like, you know, my brother came down. I actually, I don't have, like, a specific memory of him being there, which obviously I know he was there. He's the one who had to make the phone call to my parents who were in Chicago, you know, about an hour and a half away at close to 2 o' clock in the morning. Which it took me longer than it should have to tell him, but that was the hardest shot anyone had that night. You know, I was kind of just there, like, trying to survive, but there's nothing for me to do other than that. I can't imagine having to have had made that call, right? Being on the receiving end of, like, especially my dad. Like, I can't imagine what his reaction was over the phone. That was. Would have just. That would have broke me. And, you know, I'm sure it's had a lasting effect on him. And it wasn't until, like, maybe a year ago I finally told him that.
- [08:07]
B
And
- [08:09]
A
when the paramedics got there, it took them a long time because we were kind of in rural Wisconsin and we were at the bottom of a hill that had like a narrow staircase. So they had to like come down the actual hill with the stretcher. And I was lying there, I couldn't feel anything. And at that point it started to rain. I saw an umbrella holding over me, which was, I think my buddy Jake. And I was like, I could still talk actually. And like one of my diaphragms was still working for some miraculous reason. And so I could still breathe. One girl I think tried to administer cpr, but I was like, I can still breathe. Like, I think I'm just in shock. Like, this is going to be fine. But then I saw the umbrella. I'm like, what's that for? Like, like. And it was pouring rain. I couldn't feel anything. And that's when I was like, oh no. Like I can't feel anything. Like not moving. Like, maybe that's just me being in shock, but like, if I can't feel anything, like, this is bad.
- [09:13]
B
Were you in pain at all?
- [09:14]
A
No pain, not at that point. So when that happened and I couldn't feel the rain, I really started to almost get embarrassed. More than worried. Like, I like ruined the party. Like the weekend was ruined and that was like the biggest sin you could commit as a 20 year old. Like, it felt like I didn't want the attention. I just wanted to go back underwater. It felt like that's where I was supposed to be and I was almost angry at being saved. It felt like I want, like I was. We were just delaying the inevitable. Like I wasn't going to survive this. Like the paramedics, like were taking a long time to get there. I just felt like it was just a matter of time and I was okay with that, which I would have never expected. I don't know if it was like the rush of like the like, like the DMT rush you get when you're like close to death or some other like chemical process in the body that like made me okay with it, but I really just wanted it all to be over. And when the paramedics finally got there, they loaded me on the stretcher. My uncle who lived nearby showed up at the request of my dad because they were an hour, at least an hour away. My parents were split up, so it was actually two separate calls my brother had to make. My dad rushed up his step. Her stepdaughter's boyfriend drove him and my dad Just had a bottle of vodka in the passenger seat all the way up. My mom, she was living on her own, so she had to make that trek herself. And like I said, like, everyone around me had a much more difficult job than me in that moment and probably in some ways, a more traumatic experience that night. Once I got loaded onto the stretcher, the paramedics were, you know, trying to encourage me to stay awake. I was drifting off a little bit, and that's what kind of led to me thinking, like, all right, I'm gonna slip away at any point and this will all be over, and that's okay. Like, the party will go on without me, and I won't have to worry about anything anymore. But when I finally got up to the ambulance, you know, my brother wanted to get in. Paramedics said no. So he got in a car with my uncle. They followed. And one of the last things I remember that night was the. I asked the paramedic, like, is it okay to sleep now? And he said, yeah, we got you. You can rest. And that's. I thought that was the last time I would open my. Have my eyes open. So being in rural Wisconsin, there weren't many options as far as elite medical care, or I was taken to, like, a rural emergency room. And I did come back into consciousness at least once that night. Now there were more people around. Other ancient uncles that live somewhat in the area. They made it there before my parents. I remember opening my eyes in the emergency room. You know, chaos. Like, doctors, everything. But my brother was there. He was not as distraught as I would have expected, which gave me comfort, just, like, you know, that he was able to, like, be there and watch that, which, like, I wouldn't be able to do. I was like, okay, we can. Maybe we're making progress. Like, maybe this is something that can be fixed. But that's when the pain, like, the actual physical pain started to set in. And actually, it was more just like a soreness, I think. Like, me, like, laying flat on my back the entire time because this was several hours in, and, you know, I can't. I couldn't reposition myself naturally. So, like, I just remember my glute was, like, super sore, probably from so much pressure being on it consistently. And, you know, I asked, like, my aunt to just, like, rub, like, that part, like, because it was, like. That was, like, the biggest point of discomfort for me. We're still waiting for my parents to arrive. My brother, my other brother, a lot of people coming up from Chicago, and they wanted to airlift Me to Milwaukee, a hospital called Freighter. It's actually one of the top spinal cord surgery centers in the country. The storms made that impossible, so I was put into another ambulance, driven there. My dad showed up at that emergency room before, so immediately had to leave again to Milwaukee, which was at least another hour away. And it was. It wasn't just a storm. It was a really, really bad rain event. And them having to do that, it was. It almost felt, I can imagine, at least, like, biblical. Like, with just, like, the storms coming down and like, it's just probably felt almost destined, like, to happen that night. It's like there's a storm happening in more ways than one, at least in our lives. And we finally made it to Milwaukee. The first thing I remember there was I woke up in the late afternoon. My mom was there. I could still talk. I wasn't shrap yet, but I was like. I forgot what it was called. But the oxygen was being delivered through my nasal cavity. And more of my friends were there, my friends from college. He lived right outside Milwaukee. So he came, and I remember him specifically walking, like, into the hospital room door and just. He went white, you know, like, it was like. Like he knew what to expect but didn't. And he walked in, but then, like, stood behind my hospital bed, and obviously I couldn't see myself, the condition that I was in, you know, like, tubes coming out. My friend Jake actually took a picture, like, of me that morning, which I didn't see until years later. And he's like, I don't know why I took this picture, like, but I have it. And I was like, I want to see it. And I'm very glad he took that picture because it was. It gave me a sense of what everyone was looking at and helped me relate to their experience a little bit more. And anyway, like, that when my friend Ben did that, I. That was like, another sign that I was in rough shape.
- [16:40]
B
And at this point, did they tell you that you were paralyzed yet? Did they give you any information? Okay.
- [16:45]
A
I think the ER was especially lacking optimism. It wasn't really their specialty to know, but it's kind of like he has a broken neck. Like, we can see it on the X rays or the CAT scans. Like, he's not gonna walk again. Like, I think my injury level was C3, which usually means death. Like, instant death. Walking again was out of the question. Surviving was very much in doubt. And when we were in the hospital at Freighter, I got there now it was Friday, and it was kind of just a lot of waiting around now, like, there was a lot of water in my lungs, which caused infections. They obviously had me pretty sedated. They started me, you know, on fentanyl. At that time, they were using dopamine IVs for trauma patients to spike blood pressure so that your heart rate stays elevated and you don't. You basically just survive. I think there's a different type of drug they use for it now, but I just found out. I requested all my medical records a few months ago to just kind of try to figure out, like, what are all the drugs that I was on. I knew about the fentanyl, obviously, that was a year of fentanyl hydromorphone, the tramadol, hydrocodone, a whole ton of benzodiazepines, the worst of which is a drug called Versed that they basically just give you. It's like a really powerful Xanax, but it is really just meant to make you not remember what's happening from the traumatic experience. And that was. That drug I did not like, obviously, the fentanyl I liked a lot. That was. Yeah, I was on a dose that was really not like, oh, like, he's in pain. Like, we need to give him something to help with that. It was, let's make him comfortable, like, for these, like, last couple days or whatever, last couple hours. And I guess the. The next steps weren't really known to anyone yet. Was it worth doing, like, a surgery that I know now cost close to a million dollars.
- [19:30]
B
Wow.
- [19:30]
A
And it was the weekend the top surgeons weren't even on staff. So there was a nurse, though, that was with me for most of the time I was in the icu. At least she's the one I remember the most. And she went above and beyond, not just with me. And I guess more importantly, she went out of her way to help my family through it. And I never really appreciated it, but just because I didn't remember it or it was more, like, helpful to, like, my family. And I finally reconnected with her, actually, a few weeks ago, because just in preparation of kind of, like, coming here, I wanted to, like, fill in some gaps, but more importantly, just say thank you. Because nurses, like, I've had a lot of bad ones, but there's a few very, very good ones. And being able to act in a way that you're not only doing your job, but you're making people comfortable in a time where that's almost impossible, just offering reassurance. She works with those types of patients every day, so, you know, she had seen it all. And while the outlook might not have been good, there was at least a little bit of hope, which was something for everyone to hold on to. But as we went through the weekend, there was. The guy had a stroke. They found out. Actually, what happened was.
- [21:21]
B
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- [21:30]
A
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- [21:32]
B
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- [22:20]
A
so, like, normally when you dive in or, like, have any sort of neck injury and your spinal column gets compressed, it crushes the vertebrae, which crushes your spinal cord. But for some miraculous reason, mine exploded outwards, and my spinal cord was essentially, like, very, very badly bruised on one side. I was still paralyzed when I got down on both sides of my body. But when the vertebrae is exploded outwards, it severed arteries in my neck, which caused the stroke. At least one stroke. And that was another point where, you know, I flatline. They wanted, I think, to do the surgery at that point, but it was really, it was my option, like, because the other option would have been, you know, have a halo for six months or however long it was. And I don't remember picking or choosing. I guess I said surgery, and I know the odds weren't great. There was experimental technology at that time being used, which is basically like a live mri.
- [23:37]
B
So it's a halo. They would. They still have needed to do surgery. Surgery with that? No.
- [23:43]
A
Is actually what the surgery was. They fused my spinal column back together.
- [23:47]
B
Okay.
- [23:47]
A
And they cut out a piece of my hip to rebuild my spinal column. With that bone and there's like a tiny, tiny bit of metal. But it's act like my spinal column was actually rebuilt from a piece of my pelvis that they cut out.
- [24:01]
B
Gotcha. Now, did they say to you if you did the halo, you definitely would never walk again? But if you did surgery, there was a chance, or with both, they were
- [24:08]
A
like, the surgery definitely gave me better odds.
- [24:10]
B
Okay.
- [24:11]
A
But it was also, it was kind of just like you, like you have to do one or the other. Like you're not going to walk. This isn't going to help you walk again. But we can't leave your spinal column exposed like, or your spinal cord exposed like that. It's like the halo essentially like a cast where like the bone tissue would, you know, heal around it. Not perfectly, but.
- [24:34]
B
Right.
- [24:34]
A
It would be something to just provide a little bit of protection, you know, is it was. The prognosis was still quadriplegia for life. But anyways, I guess I chose the surgery. I remember being like rolled out of the icu, like towards the surgery center. And it was kind of like. And this could have all been entirely a hallucination. And that's what's kind of so difficult about this, is separating that from the reality of what happened. But, you know, everyone was like lined in the hallways, kind of like cheering me on. But again, like, I don't know how accurate. It could have been a couple people. It could have literally been everyone from my high school, college and extended family. I'm sure it was a lot of people. I had a lot of support and that's the only reason I made it through. I would have given up. I had memories asking Amy, my nurse, if like she would, you know, quote unquote, pull the plug. Like, there's no value in this. Like, I'm staring at the ceiling. I can't live the rest of my life like this. Like I can see the anguish on everyone's face. Like I don't want to be a burden on them for the rest of their lives. It'll just be so much easier if like I'm just out of the equation. And looking back on that now is very short sighted. But obviously I was not thinking with a clear mind. And when I went into surgery, the doctor, his name was Dr. Wolfla, he was one of the top surgeons in the country, was using this new technology, at least at that time. And I guess he had like a little bit of optimism going in. Like the conversations that him and his team had with my parents, you know, he was kind of like, oh, this is a Monday for me. Like, yeah, I'll go in there, fix it. Like, I don't know. Like, it could go well. It could not. Like, we'll see. Like, it's supposed to be, I think, a couple hours. It ended up being, like, six.
- [26:47]
B
And how many days after the accident was the surgery taking place?
- [26:51]
A
So the surgery was on a Monday, and so, like, three or four days. And that was one of the things I was having trouble figuring out. And when I talked to Amy, she was able to pull up the exact day. Because when I got all these medical records, it was kind of scattered, you know, coming from 2010. Like, they gave me anesthesia the first day I was there. But then several pages later, I saw, like, it was stopped and canceled. So they must have thought they were going to do the surgery then. Stopped maybe, because I think that might have been, like, when the stroke happened. And they're like, oh, okay. Like, we can't. We can't go in there yet. Like, he's not stable. The. And then Amy said it was mostly a function of just. That's when the best surgeon was available, and there's no reason to do it right away. So with the surgery being on a Monday, ended up going, like, six hours, and everyone was just, you know, waiting and praying. I remember seeing, like, my brother's Facebook post. Like, when I went into the surgery, I couldn't tell you, like, verbatim what exactly it said, but, you know, just, like, you know, you got this, like. And that was kind of, like, in the primitive days of social media. So everything kind of got put on there, which was good and bad. I don't really have anything on social media these days. I've come to find that not really productive in life, but that's just me. And. But, like, looking back on all the support I was getting, like, having the records of that was kind of surreal to, like, see almost in real time, like, everyone's reaction. One of my best friends, Peter, he wasn't with us that night. He was at the University of Illinois. He stayed there over the summer. And he was getting, like, mixed messages from everybody that was actually at that party that night, like, of what exactly happened. Obviously, like, wasn't talking directly to my brother because my brother was talking to my family. And he was just, like. He had a feed on his Facebook page. Like, he. He was messaging me directly, like, posting on my page, like, where are you? What's happening? Please be okay. Please be okay. And just seeing how, like, the word of everything, like, Traversed through cyberspace. All my college friends who obviously, like, they were scattered all over the country for the summer. People I would have never expected were, you know, expressing concerns, saying prayers, you know, like, they were in my fraternity, but, you know, not like, people I hung out with every day or even regularly at all. And seeing that, you know, weeks later was so beneficial. Just knowing that I really couldn't let go, because that would be worse than taking myself out of the equation, unlike what I had previously thought. And that became my main driving force was like, if I'm not gonna, like, at least try to survive for myself, I have to do it for them. Like, I can't just be a bad memory for all these people. Everyone, like, like you, they tried to hide it, like, but there's just no possible way you could, like, I could just, like, see the despair. It was demoralizing, but motivating. Motivating at the same time and still not being able to react, like, physically in any sort of way. My voice, it was starting to go because I had strep throat as a result of just, like, all the bacteria that was in my lungs, which was very uncomfortable. Actually, probably the most uncomfortable part of those first few weeks. I was on plenty of painkillers to numb the pain in my neck and, like, the stiffness in my body, Muscle relaxers, antidepressants, anti anxiety meds. Like, I was loaded up in that sense. But for a strep throat, you know, like, usually I would drink tea, you know, have Nyquil. But sleeping wasn't really something that was possible. Like, I would fall asleep for maybe an hour at a time, but there was, you know, doctors coming to do tests, the noises of machines beeping and blaring all around me. But it was also my only form of escape. And that's. That's why the surgery took longer than expected. Was. So, like, they made an incision in the front of my neck at first, like, a very, like, almost dime size. Did the repair that way from, like, that side. And then you're, like, strapped to the table, and they, like, flip you over. And when they did that, it was, like the surgeon said, like, the whole lake came out of me. Like, it just, you know, emptied out of my lungs. So Lindsay got to me just in time because I definitely inhaled a lot of water and was probably seconds away from drowning and not recovering. But that's what caused the strep throat. And I even told Amy this. Like, that was the most uncomfortable part for me at the beginning, because all I wanted to do Was drink something, even if, like, not tea or something soothing. Like, it was just, like, so dry and scratchy, and my ears hurt. And I just couldn't find a moment of peace, even with the painkillers, is at that point, they did do the trach, which was an incision, like, right in the front of your. Like, what?
- [33:04]
B
This is called esophagus throat.
- [33:06]
A
Yeah, like, right in front of the throat. It's called the tracheotomy. And they cut a hole, put in, like, a breathing tube. And, like, that's where you see, like, you know, the thick tube coming in. And that's something that qu. Most quadriplegics have for life. Because if your muscles aren't working below the point of your injury, there's nothing to move your diaphragms in and out. So I thought that was going to be a forever thing. And the surgeon who did that was a different surgeon. And I guess I would. Like, this was the last point where I could talk, because once you have the tracheon, you can't talk. But I didn't want to do it. I was like, one surgery was enough this. And I knew what that meant. Like, that's, like, gonna be in there forever. And the surgeon, he's actually, like, very calm, relaxed, and just almost encouraging because he was a veteran of the army or marines. And he's like. He said, I used to do this with a broken pen to my buddies who were just shot, like, in the middle of the desert. Like, you are going to be just fine. Like, don't worry about it. So I went into surgery for that, and that was, you know, another large expense on the medical bill. But after that point, I couldn't talk. And my only way of communicating was through, like, a board that, you know, my mom or someone else would hold up with just the Alphabet on it, and they run their finger across, and if whatever I need to say started with an F, like, I would blink or nod, like, when they got there. And then you start over and have to spell out the whole word. That was super frustrating.
- [35:04]
B
How long did you have to do that for?
- [35:07]
A
That was the entire time I was in Milwaukee, so about two months as I was in the ICU at Milwaukee for six weeks or maybe five weeks, and then, like, three weeks and, like, the rehab wing and. But yeah, going back to that board, I guess, like, one time I spelled out, like, when my mom was trying to do it, like, you suck at this. Because she's like, without. Like, she'd stop on the wrong letter, and, like, couldn't like, figure out what I was trying to say, but nobody could be good at that like, that. Like, did he blink? Did he not blink? Like, did he mean to blink right there? Like, that was. Seems, like, way too primitive even for that time, for 2010. Like, there had to have been a better way. I'm sure they have a better way now. At least I hope they do. But there's also no space bar, so all the words would blend together. And, like, I always joke, like, I really wanted to. They'd always ask me, like, what movies I wanted to see. And, like, I want to see Despicable Me, but there's no space bar, so it's like they're trying to find me a French film. Like, Despicable. Despicable. Blame or something is like, just a very tedious process and. But that's, like, how everything was. I couldn't communicate in any meaningful way. Couldn't gesture, couldn't verbalize, couldn't express anything of what I was feeling, how I was feeling. And as the people, like, came in and out, I almost started to find comfort in that, because then I could just lay there. And it wasn't like I had to give any feedback to, like, so many people came out of the woodworks, which, you know, I'm appreciative of. But, like, there's some people. You're just like, I don't want to talk to you right now. Like, I don't want you to see me in this condition. You know, we haven't talked in years, like, But I get it. Like, you know, you want to come show your support. And I was always very shy and never really said much, like, growing up. So I was like, maybe there is an upside to this. Like, I can. I can just be a little bit more reserved. And people won't, like, say anything about it. They can't. And my teachers always said, like, growing up, like, he's a good student, but he never says anything. And so it almost. That part almost fit my personality a little bit better and was still frustrating at the same time. But as people were coming in and out, like, some people that I didn't want to be there, you know, like, maybe like my dad's, like, business associates or, like. Like, it's kind of like they're more so here for him. Or, you know, like, my mom's friends or, you know, my brother's friends, like, people that I didn't know. It's like, you know, you're very vulnerable in that spot, and. And then you realize, like, they're not here for me. They're here for them, which is just as important. There's actually, like, the people you least expect that have the biggest impact is I had. We called him an uncle growing up. Wasn't really my uncle, but was definitely in my life a lot more when I was younger than at that point. And he was in a very bad motorcycle accident maybe a year prior or maybe a little bit longer than that. But he was in rough shape. He, you know, maybe in his 50s at the time, wasn't paralyzed. I think, like, he just shattered both of his legs. Doctors told him the same thing. Like, dude, you're in your 50s. Like, you're never gonna walk again. Like, there's just no way, like. But he got through it, was able to walk. It took a long time, but he was the one person who came into the hospital room, I remember, and he had, like, a huge smile on his face. And that was one of the most powerful things because, as I said, like, everyone was just sad. And while that had a motivating effect, it also just, like, created an environment that, like, didn't really foster hope. And when he came in, I, like, he just stood at the foot of my bed and was, like, grinning ear to ear. At least that's how I remember it. And he's like, you're going to get through this. He's like, you're 20 years old. You're in the prime of your life. Like, you know, at that time, I was working out twice a day, like, by far in the best shape of my life, lifting, running. And he's like, if I could get through what I went through, he's like, you get through this, like, you don't have anything to be worried about. I was like, oh, my God. That's, like, a really good point. And I, like, obviously, I couldn't respond to it at that time, and it wasn't until, I think, at my cousin's wedding, like, it was during COVID so a few years ago. And I, you know, finally told him. I was like, that had a huge impact. I don't. Like, you probably don't remember it, but that was one of the most beneficial things that anyone ever did. And that's somebody who, like, could very easily just made a decision, like, I don't need to go. Like, yeah, you know, like, we weren't super close at that time, and there was no reason for him to.
- [41:30]
B
But when you got out of the surgeries, did they have hope that you would walk again still? No, it was just, like, Just simply rehab and recovery at that point.
- [41:40]
A
Yeah. So I was in the ICU for about five weeks, and it was about maybe three weeks before, you know, I could, like, have, like, slight voluntary movements in my right fingers. And that was, like, the first sign of hope.
- [42:00]
B
Okay.
- [42:00]
A
But it's also kind of hard to measure, like, how much of that is, like, auto reflexes.
- [42:07]
B
Yeah.
- [42:08]
A
And just kind of like almost like a signal, like, trying to get through that, like, can. And it's just kind of like spazzing out, like, your muscles. And I couldn't really communicate like that. Oh, yeah, that's me trying to do that.
- [42:22]
B
Okay. Gotcha.
- [42:24]
A
And I don't fully remember the first time, like, being able to move my right hand, but my goal at the time was I just want to be able to change the channel myself, because that's all I had to do was just watch TV endlessly. Movies, TV shows. And what I actually found to be the most therapeutic was music. And it was a friend of mine, another friend, who we weren't incredibly close, but knew I loved at the time, this band Oar. He brought in some of their albums, just put them on, and that I just found, like, super peaceful. And they actually. I. Someone in my family reached out to them. They sent me, like, a whole, like, sign poster that. With, like, a note, like, they wrote me personally. I had it all framed. And actually, exactly a year after the date of my injury, our basement flooded and it got ruined.
- [43:33]
B
But at least you had it.
- [43:36]
A
Yeah. It was very cool to see that level of support from, you know, a group that I admired mentally.
- [43:44]
B
Where were you at during this stage of your recovery? Plan B is a backup birth control option that's there for you when things don't go according to plan. It specifically works after unprotected sex and before pregnancy occurs by temporarily delaying ovulation. Plan B is available nationwide at all major retailers and through delivery apps like DoorDash, no ID prescription or. Or age requirement. It's the number one OB GYN recommended brand of emergency contraception, and it won't impact your future fertility. That's freedom to be use as directed.
- [44:17]
A
Did you know Sam's Club isn't a store? It's actually a club with cool finds and, like, a whole community. It's a club, of course, Jason.
- [44:26]
B
It's in the name. Sam's Club.
- [44:29]
A
Oh, yeah. Come join us. Sam's Club. So while I was still in the icu, I was heavily reliant on the fentanyl. And in order to move out of the ICU you can't be on fentanyl, like, if you're going to a rehab wing. Like, you can't be on that level of painkiller if you're really trying to rehab and recover. So they started to, like, try to wean me off of it. Didn't take well to that at all. I just remember the rush of euphoria that I got, which some people debate me on, because, like, even though it was a lot, it's not like, street level, like, heroin. Like, you're not, like, that's not the purpose of the drug, so you wouldn't have felt, like, such a high level of euphoria. But I remember that so specifically because, you know, it was on, like, a time drip. I think the dosage was, like, 100 micrograms, which is high for a hospital dose. But again, it's not like a street level dose like, that someone who would be abusing it. And I just remember, like, it would come in and you'd feel like your arm would get warm and it travel, like, down your toes first. And then, like. Like, your feet would literally be happy. Like, and. And then you feel it, like, circle back up and know it was, like, about to hit your brain, and then it's just, like, snap. And then, like, everything just like every problem, concern, it all just faded away. Which is a good reason, like, why you shouldn't be on it if you're trying to recover, right? It just. It's like, oh, like, this is good enough for me. I don't need.
- [46:22]
B
Like, you don't have to deal with anything else.
- [46:23]
A
I don't have to walk again.
- [46:24]
B
Like, as long as I feel like this. Yeah, right.
- [46:28]
A
But that is also detrimental in the sense that, I mean, to this day, like, I know that's the happiest I'll ever be. Like, that having that drug, it. I think just doing it once changes your brain chemistry forever. It. It's very. Almost surreal to know, like, the highest level of happiness I'll experience is while completely paralyzed, only staring at ceiling tiles and just not being able to know at all what my future or even tomorrow would hold. But that drug just washed it all away. And I loved it. I loved that drug. I said for a long time, I was like, everyone should try it once just for the experience. That's not a good idea. Don't do that.
- [47:31]
B
But. But at the time, yeah.
- [47:35]
A
But, yeah, they eventually made the decision, like, okay, well, we can't take them off of it. Like, there was too many downsides. Like, I would withdraw and like, that doesn't help well either when you're recovering, if you're in withdrawal. So they, you know, would taper down the dosages. And also the entire time I was on a patch, and it's like every 72 hours it was change. And that would, you know, deliver an equivalent of, I think, like, an additional 50 micrograms every hour. And that also would, like, taper down. But I didn't start tapering that down until I got out of the hospital. So I went home with fentanyl patches in addition to a whole bunch of other stuff. And, yeah, that was like. I remember friends asking me, like, do you need all, like, can I try one? I'm like, do not touch those. Like, those are mine. And like, at the end of the 72 hours, I remember, like, you know, like, the patch would, like, start to peel off and I would just, like, take it off and just like, start licking it. Like, didn't have any effect, but it's just like kind of typical drug addict behavior. And my dad took me to Florida a few months after I got home from the hospital, and he forgot to bring him with. I wasn't happy with him. And obviously it's not like, you can't just, like, call Walgreens and we need more fentanyl patches. So that was one of, like, the first times I realized, like, the effect that drug had on my mental state. Because when I didn't have the patches for, like, it took a day or two to get them, and I was just in bed, like, terrible pain, but not. Not even really like, pain, more just like discomfort, like nausea. And I think it was. My little brother pointed out, like, we need to get you more fentanyl patches. And I was like, okay, Dad's working on it. But that's not what this, Like, I'm. It's just like a side effect of whatever my injury is. Like, the fentanyl patches aren't going to fix this. And that was just me being naive as to, like, what the whole opiate epidemic really was. And I, yeah, I struggled with fentanyl a lot. Coming off of it was a very difficult experience. And actually was like the week of my 21st birthday when I was still at home, but going back to the. In the icu, my mental state there. I really tried very hard to not think about the future. It was just very painful to try to do that with so much uncertainty. You know, growing up, you know, all the way up to the point of my injury, I never really had to think much about the future, it was all kind of just like, laid out for me. I grew up in, you know, upper middle class household. Like, got good grades, went to a good college. You know, it's all like, okay, you go, go to college, get a good degree, you get a good job, you meet a wife, you have kids, house, picket fence, like, just never really thought much about it. You're kind of just like, on this track that. That you never planned to deviate from. And there was an illusion that, like, you were kind of owed that, like, that was something that's just supposed to happen and nothing terrible would ever happen. Growing up, I didn't deal with much tragedy. Like, my parents split up, but I was maybe 7 years old. I don't remember. I don't remember my parents ever living together. So that was just like. Plus, everyone's parents were divorced. Like, growing up was. So it's such a common thing. It's unfortunate it happens so much, but my whole mindset on that was, I think it was good for us just because my mom and dad are so different people and if they would stay together, one would have overpowered the other. But I feel like me and my brothers all got, like, a little bit of their good qualities and learned about their bad qualities and kind of were able to mix and match the best of both. I'm much more like my mom. I work with my dad, but I relate to my mom a whole lot more in the sense that we just enjoy peace and solitude. My dad can't be alone for five minutes. Like, he'll. And if he is, he's constantly calling, texting on Facebook. Like, and that's more like my little brother. But we both will and my older brother included, we all kind of learn together, like, what the good qualities of each of those types of personalities are. I'm not saying, like, we perfected it, but I. I think there's some people who should get divorced. And my parents were one of them. But yeah, other than that. Like, I had an aunt that passed away when I think it was before. It was before the divorce. So I don't know really remember that. She died super young, my mom's sister. And yeah, like, other than that, it was all just like, happy go lucky. Like, you know, there were sad times or, like, difficult situations. But looking back at it, it's all like, minor high school drama or college drama. Like, that just didn't matter. And that that night is what kind of like, broke that illusion. Not just for myself, but I think for my friend group as a whole. And it was actually, like, a few months later, one of my good friends at the time, he went back to the University of Missouri, was just, like, in his dorm room, leaned up against the window, and it gave out. Fell. Like he was in real bad shape. I think he fell three stories. Yeah. And so, like, it was like, all of a sudden, like. Like, the wheels are starting to come off. Like, there are bad things that can happen in this world. Like, we've been living in kind of a bubble, and he went to the same high school I did. He was my brother's age, but he actually. We worked together the summer by injury, so we were super close. And we had two very different experiences in recovery. Obviously, my injury was a lot worse, but, you know, he got prescribed painkillers, and one day his doctor was like, you don't need him anymore. And he started to go through withdrawal. He texted me, you know, a couple times. Do you have any spare hydrocodones? I'm like, do I? Like, yeah. And it's like. Like, even his mom, like, would call, like, offered to, like, pay me for them. Like. Like, oh, he just needs, like, a couple to, like, get through the, like, the week. Or, like, they just, like, cut him off cold turkey. And it, like, he's not taking it well. And it didn't take long for him to be living on the streets buying heroin. And now he lives out of the country now. I think, like, he survived that. I don't know. Honestly, I don't know how he's doing now or if he's still alive, but. Because I know that's not an addiction that ever goes away. But, you know, we tried reaching out to him, and it's just, you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. And my whole experience with that was the exact opposite. I could click a button. Like, it was like when, like, the Walgreens app became a thing. And, like, I had an app with my doctor, like, request refill. An hour later, I get notification, your refill is ready. At Walgreens, it was like, my doctors had no problem just, like, prescribing me whatever and however much I wanted, which maybe that was not the best thing to do. But at the same time, maybe it was like, I don't think there's really, like, a good way to come off of those painkillers. It's a very, very addictive feeling. And I took it completely upon myself to stop, like, probably two years on heavy painkillers. It was like, a year of fentanyl and Then mostly hydrocodone after that, the narcos. But, yeah, I'll definitely get in to that. It's. That's, like, kind of goes into when I return to college, but going back to, like, when I was in the ICU and trying to get ready to move on away from that. There was, like, one friend, to this day, the best friend I've ever had. We're not in touch as much as I'd like to be anymore. But for we. We actually did go to high school together, but weren't really friends. Like, we see each other at parties maybe, but we both ended up going to Purdue and ended up becoming close there. He's the one who encouraged me to join the fraternity, which I thought, like, my only knowledge of fraternities at that time was, like, Animal House, American Pie. Like, I'm like, that's not me. Like, I'm not gonna join a fraternity. Like, but he got me into that. Basically owe my entire college experience to him. He was actually the first person I asked for when I woke up in the emergency room. I mentioned when my aunt was there with my brother. I was just like, call Joe. And him being, like, an early riser, I think he was, like, a lifeguard that summer, like, was already awake and got the call, immediately drove up to Milwaukee. And he's, you know, one of the ones who looked out for me, like, when I did end up going back to school. But for those first two years of college, we were, like, as close as any two people could be. And while I don't talk to or see him as much anymore, like, when I do see him, it's like one of those things you pick up right where you left off. And it's just having people like, that is the most important thing is I. I don't think many people do have that sort of relationship. It was. It's also like, you know, me not being on social media. Like, for example, I saw him a couple months ago. He came. He lives Nashville now. He came back to Chicago. I saw him. I was like, oh, you have a kid now? And he's like, I have two kids. I was like, oh, my God. Like, can I see pictures? And, you know, like, he's showing me the pictures and, like, you know, actually having a genuine conversation where if, like, I saw the pictures on Facebook, you know, like, I'd have one eye on that and one eye on whatever game was on at the time. And it's just like, the whole social media thing keeps us connected, but also disconnected at the same Time.
- [59:53]
B
But anyway, at what point from when you were in rehab did they start seeing that your recovery was going in the right direction, or did you really start seeing a difference when you went back home?
- [60:05]
A
So, yeah, I finally got into the rehab wing. Much smaller room, much smaller tv. Kind of like a more. Almost a more depressing setting because you don't have 24. 7 care from the staff there. They kind of leave you alone a little bit more. And that's when, like, they tried to, like, at least just sit me up. Like, let's get him upright. And, like, getting him used to, like, supporting his own body weight again. And that was a miserable experience. It wasn't pain. I mean, there was pain, but it was more like your blood pressure just plummets, and it's like this nausea. Like, it's, like, ringing in your ear. Like, complete and utter disorientation. And I. I was like, no, more like, we can't. Like, this is. This is literal torture. Like, my grandfather was tortured, like, in World War II. I'm like, I'm pretty sure this is worse than whatever he went through. Like, just felt, like, so pointless because I'm like, I'm never gonna walk again. Like, just, like, get me in my, like, quadriplegic chair. Oh, I don't need to support myself in that. So, like, why are we doing this? It's just. Just, like, stop, please. Like, I want this to end. I want to go home. Like, I don't want to be here anymore. And it was. I remember, like, during the week, I had, like, a certain set of. There's most physical therapists and occupational therapists and respiratory therapists, because you have to learn how to breathe on your own again. And every once in a while, they would, you know, take the trach out for 10 minutes. Like, let's see what happens. One time I flatline. And the occupational therapists, they're more like. They try to, like, teach you how to, like, live again or, like, in adaptive ways, which. That felt pointless because I'm like, I can, like, maybe move my right arm a little bit at this point. And, like, I got, like, some, like, muscle function in my ankles, my calves, on my right side only, my left side completely nothing still. And one of my physical therapists actually, coincidentally ended up being my pledge brother's mom. Was like, oh, you once said Purdue. Because, like, I Purdue stuff all over my room. Like, do you know I can't even remember his name. Jason. It was like. Like. And for. I had to spell it out, like, pledge brother. And so then, like, yeah, small world. And it wasn't until actually I had a different, like, physical therapist on the weekend, like, on a Saturday, and I was, like, laying on a mat, and they would just kind of, you know, like, more or less, like, stretch me out, like, and, like, move my muscles and limbs in a way that, like, might trigger, like, my body to remember how to, like, activate that again. And he was doing it with my leg, just kind of, like extending and bending my knee, like, while I was on my back. And he's like. He's like, look like a motorcycle, like, biker dude. And he's like, hey, man, like, I can feel your glute firing. He's like, it's not a lot, but, like, your glute is definitely firing and it's voluntary. Like, he's like, you're gonna walk again. I'm like, no, like. Like, why would you even put that in my head? And he was, I mean, extremely confident about it because he's like, if that's firing, like, I mean, I guess just the way, like, your nerves circus run, like, that's like, a huge indicator that more is going to come back. And once it's firing, you can build it up. And he's like, I think you're going to walk again. You know, that brought, like, a huge amount of relief to my parents and family. I was still very much doubtful. How am I going to walk with just one side of my body?
- [64:30]
B
This episode is brought to you by Starbucks.
- [64:32]
A
That is fire. Whoa, that's good. This might be the drink of the summer. Okay, I like this one, too. I'm rocking with it.
- [64:39]
B
Okay, try it for yourself. Starbucks refreshers concentrates are coming home. Find them in the coffee aisle and make it yours. Ever feel like healthy eating is harder than it should be? I get it. Nutrition can feel complicated. But it doesn't have to be. On Be well by Kelly. I simplify the science of nutrition so you can feel better, balance your blood sugar, and build healthy habits that actually last. Each week, I talk to leading experts, doctors, and researchers about practical ways to nourish your body and make wellness accessible in real life. Listen to Be well by Kelly wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Wednesday.
- [65:15]
A
Yeah, he was the first one to express any sort of confidence that I might walk again. I still wasn't in that mindset. I couldn't think about that possibility. In fact, I almost trained my brain to not think about the future. And that's something, honestly, I still struggle with to this day. Just like, acting in A way that, like, for the long term rather than the short term, it became just too painful or not. Not even painful, just difficult to, like, try to think about the future. There's so much uncertainty. So it was like my whole mindset was, let's just get through the day. Like, do what the physical therapists tell me, what the doctors tell me, and if I can get through the end of the day, I'll be happy. And that was my goal. I was living day to day. And I think in a way, I still kind of am. It's hard to undo that change in mindset, especially with all the drugs I was on. And really up until recently, I mean, even the pot, like, smoking weed way more than I should have been. I didn't finally stop until just about a year ago. And I think I was carrying a lot of that addiction mentality, even though, you know, it's literally prescribed by doctors. Like, it was just more or less a cop out. A different way to, like, enter an altered state of mind and have something to look forward to at the end of the day. Because every day, I mean, there's still something I deal with. Like waking up in the morning is, you know, still hard. Most days. I still, like, one of the first things I think about is, are painkillers. Like, why did I give those up like that? You know, that's how I started my day for a really long time. And just undoing that has been one of my biggest challenges. But I think the final hurdle was finally quitting pot, which was something I was like, I'll be smoking this the rest of my rest of my life. Like, there's no downside to this. I used to be of that mentality. I'm not anymore. I think there are good things about that drug, but there's a lot of bad that comes with it too, that I think is easy to overlook. But that was, yeah, just, I think, a lot of personal stuff for me, because I literally use pot to get off of painkillers. And it was like, you know, instead of coming home from class and popping more pills, I would wait 10 minutes, go outside, smoke a joint, and then maybe pop one pill instead of two. And then I kind of just blended it all together, which was kind of like, had like a psychosomatic effect of, like, helping me get off of it, which maybe it was worth it for that sense. But the going back to, like, my time in the rehab wing, you know, I was still on every sort of drug. I think that's when they started me on Lexapro that, I think is one of the drugs I have the biggest problems with. More so than even fentanyl. It takes away the highs and the lows, but that's kind of the best part of life. And it kind of just puts you on cruise control. And especially as, like, a spinal cord patient or someone with a spinal cord injury. Like, everyone thinks of it as, like, you know, it's like a physical effect. Like, you have a physical disability now, but, you know, it's. It also has a mental effect, obviously, it has an emotional effect, it has a spiritual effect. Because the hormones that you're producing in your body, the. The endorphins, like, they're all produced outside of your blood brain barrier. And if your nerve pathways can't deliver those endorph. Endorphins, those hormones from your body into your brain, you're not receiving the same reward system that you were prior to the injury or, like, that anyone else might be. Like, it's just not as effective. It's like oxytocin is something like, works that way. Like, I noticed, like, eas, even as I went through the rehab and was able to actually do significant, significant cardio where I would be exhausted. I could never and still can't really achieve that runner's high, which I think that's more like endocannabinoids that are produced in your muscle system, but, like, they just don't get to my brain because of my diminished nerve pathways. And that was like, one of my favorite parts of working out. You know, like, run to the gym, workout, run home, and then you just collapse in, like, the state of euphoria. And when you don't have that, it takes away your motivation to work out. And it also felt a lot more like a job than it did, like, for enjoyment, which made it harder. And, you know, that was one of my bigger regrets was while I was in the rehab wing and then later at RIC Hospital in Chicago for another three months there, I could have pushed myself a lot harder. I don't know how much more it would have gotten me. But not being able, like, working out, like, not feeling like that reward after, like, and then also not really knowing where it's, like, leading to, why you're doing it. And, like, how much is this really going to help me? Like, I just want to get home. Like, being in a hospital is just really just a draining experience. It's hard to sleep. It's hard to, like, focus on anything. It's just hard to be in a good mood. Like, there's you know, other people around you that maybe they're in better condition, maybe they're in worse. But either way, it's like you either have, like, survivors remorse, or you wish you were, like, in that person's shoe. And, like, just. Yeah, being in that setting was not fun. And then the Lexapro on top of that, I think it kind of just, like, made me okay with, like, being in the state that I was. Like, it took away my serotonin receptors, ability to, like, receive those endorphins. And I didn't want to tell my doctors because, like, I thought, like, they might give me, like. Like, no, you need to go back on that drug. And kind of just felt like they were peddling drugs over and over again. And, I mean, obviously they all had good intentions, but it's just like, it felt like something more personal, especially with pharmaceuticals. Like, I need to figure out, like, what works for me and what doesn't. And so I was. I was at RIC in Chicago. Finally, I got their Labor Day weekend, 2010. Now, obviously, like, my family was closer, but there was, like, there were set visitor hours. You know, I had a strict routine. Like, if I didn't follow that routine, like, insurance was going to stop paying for it. So I got really depressed there, like, not having a constant support system from the outside. The nurses and physical therapists weren't really, like, there to, like, coddle you. It was more like, we're here to do a job, and if you don't want to do the job, then, like, you can leave. I'm like, okay, yeah, I want to leave. And, like, like, obviously my parents and everyone was, like, not going to let me do that. I was there for about three months, and that's where I stood for the first time. I think maybe took, like, a couple small steps while I was there. That was like, you know, first they put you on, like, a board that, like, would automatically, like, go up to this level and this level, and, like, you do that for, like, a few minutes at a time and slowly, like, regain enough strength. I actually did start to, like, have some muscle movement my left leg, but
- [74:08]
B
still no feeling to touch and stuff. Did you have numbness at all?
- [74:11]
A
No, actually. So my. The feeling on my skin, actually, I forgot to mention that it came back while I was still on the dock.
- [74:20]
B
Okay.
- [74:20]
A
Which.
- [74:21]
B
So you could feel touch, but you just couldn't move.
- [74:25]
A
Right.
- [74:25]
B
Interesting. Okay.
- [74:27]
A
Yeah.
- [74:27]
B
Is that pretty normal?
- [74:29]
A
No.
- [74:29]
B
Okay.
- [74:30]
A
And so that was something they finally diagnosed while I was at ric. It's a condition called brown squared okay, so this. Not many people have this. And if they do, they're usually like. I don't know if it's, like, more related to strokes, but they were never, like, completely paralyzed from the neck down. So what it is, like, my spinal cord is bruised on the right side, and it's. It's like, so your spinal cord is crisscrossed. So, like, movement on my right side is mostly normal. My left side, not at all. But on my right side, I can't feel pain or temperature. I can feel, like, if you touch me or if, like, you were to, like, hit me, like, I can feel blunt force and blunt pain, but if you poke me with a pain, I can't feel it at all. I can't feel temperature in the traditional sense at least. My brain kind of, like, figured out how to, like, warn me if something's hot. But it takes a few seconds. Like, if I grab a hot pan, like, I won't notice it until, like, a shock will, like, literally, like, go through my arm. And so, like, everything's kind of, like, crisscrossed. And my left side, I can't move at all. But my right side, I can't feel certain things. So, like, that creates a lot of difficult situations where, like, I can't grab something with my left hand to feel if it's hot or cold. And I can't, when I grab it, do grab with my right hand. It's like. It's always like a game of roulette. But that's something that took a really long time to get used to, especially at home, like, you know, walking on a tile floor eventually, like, without socks, it was like you feel, like, the cold on your left foot, but then not on your right. And it's like one of those annoying things where, like, you wouldn't, like, think of it as anything that, like, would bother you. But it was, like, things like those that, like, really, like, added up and just, like, really played into my whole frustration. Because coming home was the hardest part of the whole process. That was, like, my goal throughout all of it, you know, like, first it was like, I just want to use the TV remote. And then it was, I just want to be able to drink something again. They actually had to cut me off of water the first time. I was, like, cleared to drink anything because I just drank so much. And then my. When I finally got home, like, I was still in a wheelchair. I got on my bed and was like, oh, now what? Like, you know, in the hospital, you're supposed to be sick or not in good shape and you're home and you're like, oh, nothing's changed since I was in the hospital. And that was a super depressing feeling. That was, I think, the only time I was like, truly depressed. That was the most difficult thing for me because I didn't expect it to be difficult. And all those little frustrations really started to add up. Like, oh, like I. My bedroom, I live. I moved back in with my dad because he had a full time nanny for my little sister who was like two at the time, or half sister. So that just made sense. My basement, or my bedroom was in the basement, but couldn't go there. So set up a bedroom on the ground floor. You know, just like not being able to, like, get my own cereal, not being able to drive anywhere, not being able to, you know, move around, like, certain corners, just, like showering, like, was like, not enjoyable. It was like a chore. Everything started to like, feel like a chore. It's like I didn't have like a 24 or 7 support staff anymore. Sleeping became really difficult. I mean, in the hospital it already was difficult. And that, I think, lack of sleep, I think, is like the most powerful hallucinogen is I would sleep for maybe an hour at a time. Like, it was just impossible for me to sleep any longer than that even when I got home from the hospital. And I mean, maybe obviously it was an effect of the drugs as well, but I had some very powerful hallucinations that honestly, like, I didn't even know were hallucinations up until maybe recently. 1. Like, I told my dad and my family, I was like, I was read my last rites in the hospital. Like, I remember that, like, there was a priest there. It's like, you know, Catholic sacrament. Like, priest comes in, blesses you before, you know, you pass on. I was like, that happened. Like, I have a very vivid memory of that. And my dad was always like, no way. Like, it never got that bad. Like, if you read your last rights, like, I would have known about it. And so we were always like, okay, like, let's just agree to disagree. And it wasn't until I talked to Amy and she's like, describe that memory to me. I was like, I don't know. It was like me in the hospital room, like, and it was like, just the priest there. She's like, yeah, no, that didn't happen. Like, you were never in that room alone. I know that for a fact. Like, someone was there with you. And I was like, okay, okay, good point. Then like, it's like, yeah, like, I did have this hallucination, probably around the same time, of my grandma, my dad's side. She was certainly passed away at that point. So I know this was a hallucination, but she came in and told me I had to live for 10 more years. Heaven wasn't ready for me. And that drove me nuts for a long time. Like, why 10 years? Like, when that 10 years came up, I was like, oh, no. Like, what's about to happen? Like, and actually, that was when Covid happened. Like, I was, like, never understood. Like, I mean, it's probably just as simple as, like, a hallucination. But, like, I tried to find meaning in that for the longest time. Like, why was it 10 years? Why was it 10 years? And never could understand that. Like, I guess there really isn't anything to understand. But that's just the nature of being human is, like, you want to find meaning in anything you can. And, you know, I wasn't particularly close with my grandma. She passed away when I was 11. So it's just. It just felt like it was something that stuck out that I couldn't, like, make sense of, but wanted to. And then when I was able to sleep, the dreams I had were. They felt insanely long. And I was almost, like, creating, like, a separate, like, life in my dreams to kind of escape to. And it would be, like, nothing, like, super crazy or supernatural. It was just like, I went to the grocery store, or, like, I got home and did this, or we went to, you know, visit this person. And there was just nothing that, like, really stuck out about it, except for the fact that when I woke up, I knew I was in that universe. And it felt like a very long time had passed. I don't know if you've ever seen the Sopranos. Like, it was like, when the main character, Tony, gets shot, he goes through something very similar where, like, he's a separate guy, like Kevin Finnerty and that. Like, they nailed that on the head, like, because he was in a coma and, like, had this, like, lived this whole separate life in his dream. And that's when, like, the whole concept of time really started to blur for me because, like, it felt like I just, like, was asleep for weeks, maybe even months. And now, like, I would, like, look at the clock, and, like, an hour has passed, maybe 90 minutes. Like, it just. None of it made sense. And that really, like, started to throw me off as far as just being able to understand, like, what our perception of reality is. And I started to use that as Like a coping mechanism kind of like, you know, like there's not really a whole lot of physical stuff I can do right now, but I can read, I can research. It kind of went down like rabbit
- [83:30]
B
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- [84:30]
A
Like, theories of, like, quantum immortality and what dreams are and what, like, time is and gravity and theoretical physics. Like, I mean, I went to school for civil engineering, so I have, like, a little bit of, like, background in that. But, like, I was just like, trying to, like, understand things and like, honestly, like, I'm not 100 convinced that I'm not still underwater. And this has been entirely a dream since, like, there's really no way to know which. It sounds kind of trippy and, but it's true. It's like those dreams felt as real to me as anything else those hallucinations did. And it's still like, every once in a while I'll like, have a dream and I wake up and like, know I was in that same universe. And this has been like, one of the hardest things for me to explain to people. Therapists, doctors, friends, family. I'm like, like, what is, like, what's going on? Like, I know it's like, it sounds insanely outlandish and doesn't make any sort of sense, but it is like this, like, separate universe that I'll go visit in my dreams every once in a while. And that was one of the hardest parts about stopping cannabis use, because when you smoke before bed, it suppresses dreams. And then when I stopped, I started having a lot of dreams. Not all of them like that, but some of them were And I would just wake up terrified. It's. It was a very. It still is a very like, uncomfortable experience when it feels like you've dreamt for a very long time in the span of a couple hours. It's just. I don't know if it's a combination of the drugs or the, like, the trauma, but something happened and like, my brain just like created something to escape. Like, I just wanted, like, because that was the only escape was sleep. And yeah, that really started to just make me uncomfortable with like, what I understood as reality. And like, like, now I'm okay with it. So like, it's just like now I look at like life a little bit differently, like what the meaning of it is. And like, obviously, like, I don't have that answer, but I think that is kind of the meaning of life is just to search for meaning. And that whole experience kind of put me on the pathway towards finding it. And it's just, I think something we all need to be, like, kind of like looking for is just what is the meaning of life? Like, why are we here? You know, growing up, we were at least I was like on a predetermined path. And then like, this was just something that like, threw me way off of it and gave me a chance to kind of like look at my life from like a bird's eye perspective and think like, okay, like, what am I actually doing? Like, why am I going to school for engineering? Why am I doing this? Like, what like, really needs to be, like, my priorities. And I wasn't looking at it so much in like a personal sense, more just like kind of like a metaphysical sense, and wanted to like, understand like, what motivates people, what drives, like, just the reason people do things. And I think that's one of like the most interesting kind of like philosophical topics because one, one thing that happened after the injury was, you know, I lost like all sexual function and that obviously being a 20 year old now was less than ideal. But it made me realize that's kind of what drove most of my motivation. It was, you know, like, why was I going to the gym twice a day and working out? Like, yeah, it was that runner's high and then endorphin rush. But it was also like, make yourself physically more attractive to the opposite sex. So it's like, why am I going to get like. Like, why am I like, driving myself through a wall at engineering school? Like, oh, like ultimately, like, I want to make myself more marketable and like the dating arena, like, make myself seem more intelligent. Provide a good life for, like, a potential wife. And then, you know, like, even, like, some of, like, the male friends I was selecting or not selecting, but, like, gravitating towards was, like, just to, like, provide, like, a better opportunity to, like, hang around, like, a certain subset of girls. And, like, I was like. There was, like, so much of what I did that was, like, driven just by, like. I mean, maybe not, like, pure sexual desire, but, like, definitely, like, just desire. Like. Like a mating desire almost. And like, now all of a sudden, like, that was gone, and I'm like, what now? Like, what. What am I doing this for? Like, why get up every morning? And I think that's something, like, a lot of people don't realize is just, like, maybe they do, but, like, that how much of our life is driven by just. I don't desire for, like, others. Yeah, it's like, you know, like, you, like, going out to bars and drinking. It's like, are we doing that because we, like the feeling of getting drunk? And, like, being at a loud, crowded bar is like, there are other reasons to that. And actually, like, when I got back to college, it was kind of sobering in the sense that, again, I tried to, like, go out to the bars a couple times. I went back to college with a cane, so I was out of the wheelchair, you know, still, like, hopping a lot more than I am now.
- [91:20]
B
Did it take you to get to that point from when you got home?
- [91:23]
A
So I went back to college. Would have been the fall of 2011. So about 14 months post injury.
- [91:33]
B
Okay. And are you still continuing to improve, would you say?
- [91:37]
A
Okay, yeah, not as much, but, like, small things. Like, I still had a cane, like, a brace on my left ankle. I found, like, a physical therapist in West Lafayette, where I was going to college, and would see them, like, a couple times a week was like, try to do stuff on my own. But college quickly became like. Like I said, like, I, like, went out to the bars a couple times. Then I actually got kicked out of a bar for being too drunk, even though I wasn't drinking. But, like, I had, like, a collapsible cane, and, like, I would fold it up and put it in a girl's purse or, like, shoot, hold it for me, like, because I didn't need it. Like, you know, I found a seat, like, inside the bar, even if we were just standing around. But, like, you know, a bouncer saw me, like, stumble a little bit, like, trying to, like, get into the bar. He's like, no, like, you've had too much. You can't come in. And that really upset me. I was like. Like, I tried explaining, like, I'm not drunk, like that. Like, I, like, tried showing the scar on my neck. Like, my friends tried advocating for me, and then it was like a lost cause. So, like, you know, obviously I didn't get in. But what surprised me is, like, most of the people I was with did go in, and I'm like, okay, okay. So, like, I guess I'm just gonna go hang out. Back at. I was living in the fraternity house, which that probably wasn't the best idea considering all the painkillers I had. I was still on. I was on Norcos at that time. But, yeah, it was like. It felt like I almost became, like, more. More or less like, a prop. I was like, oh, like, let's, like, Zach's back. Like, let's get a picture for. With him. Like, post it on Facebook. And I'm like, okay, see you later. Like, we're gonna go out to the bars now. And that kind of became demoralizing. But, like, everybody had to move on at some point. So it was one of those things where I just, like, tried to find, like, an identity off to myself. Like, I had my, like, close group of friends who, you know, they all had their own things going on. And at the time, I didn't realize, like, how much attention they really were paying to me. But I grew to be kind of resentful. Like, kind of just felt, like, left behind. Like, while I was living at the fraternity house, I really leaned into, like, the pot smoking because it was. It gave me an identity and a reason to, like, not be going out to the bars. Other than my injury, I never wanted to be viewed as, like, the guy. Like, just. I didn't want that to define me. And that also kind of pushed me towards, like, the wrong crowd. And I had pretty much an unlimited access to Norcos, the hydrocodone painkillers. I would trade them for something as simple as, like, a Chipotle burrito or Adderall or pretty much, like, anything. It was like a bartering system and got probably, like, to the worst point where. So, like, the Noros, like, the actual opiates, like, embedded in aspirin or acetaminophine. So, like, if actually, if you take too many of those, you'll overdose on aspirin before the actual painkiller. But then somebody taught me, like, the method of, like, cold water extraction, which was you would, like, boil them in hot water and then let it cool. And, like, when it's all dissolved. When it boils and then cools down, the actual opiates would fall, like, solidify first. So then you filter it, like, through a coffee filter, and now you have, like, pure opiates. And it was like, that's still. That first semester I was back at school, my. Like, I had my own room. My door was, like, completely open. One other guy in there with me, and we were doing that, and literally just snorting off my desk. Like, people walking by, like, no shame in it whatsoever. And my buddy Bobby is another one I went to high school with and also Purdue. Very close with him. He walked in, saw what was going on. Didn't really comment on it. Like, just, like, went back to his room down the hall, waited for the other guy to leave, and immediately walked in with my friend Ben. I mentioned he's the one who came in and sat or stood behind my hospital bed. And they're like, zach, we need to have a talk. And, you know, I was, like, immediately defensive. Is I'm prescribed, like, this. Like, doctors gave it to me, and it's actually better for my liver if I take it, like, without the aspirin in it. Like, so what's like, what's the problem, guys? I don't understand. Like. Like, maybe, like, that guy's, like, not the best one to be hanging around with. Like, well, I can't go out to the bars with you guys. You know, it's like, what else am I supposed to do? Like, you don't understand, like, what I'm going through. Like, very typical, just addicts behavior response to, like, an intervention. And that's when I was like, all right, I'm like, I'm done. Like, I'm moving out of the fraternity house. And luckily, I found other guys in my fraternity who were actually the perfect ones to move out with. They wanted to move out too, but for different reasons. They're all kind of in relationships. We're just over the, like, frat guy lifestyle and ended up moving out with them in the middle of the semester. And that was the best possible outcome of that whole thing. They weren't guys, like, I was particularly close with at the time, but they wanted to move out, and so did I, and it just made sense, and the pieces fell into place. You know, they're like pot smokers, but all engineering students. Like, super responsible. Like, I not only had them, but, like, their girlfriends, who two of them are now married to and still married to, like, looking out for me. And then even, like, Bob, Joe, and Ben, who were still living at the fraternity house. Like, I didn't find this out till like years later, but, you know, they all got together and like, what do we do? Like, do we. Should we like, let Zach move out? Like, should we, you know, encourage him to stay here? Like, do we need to like, maybe hang out here a little bit more if, like, we're going to encourage him to do that? Like, there was like, I'm sure plenty of discussions amongst them, like, about what to do, like, in my best interest, which I didn't see at the time, I was like, you know, kind of like, screw those guys. Like, I'm just going to go, like, find my own thing. And they're like, okay, like, I'm moving out with. Or he's moving out with, you know, Mike Scott. Like the, like, he'll be fine. Like, they're not going to like, let him go off the rails. And sure enough, it was like a perfect situation. Like, they were kind of like my guardian angels throughout, like that whole process. And they graduated that semester. I had to stay another year, but a couple of those guys also had to stay longer. So I ended up getting close with them and, you know, they helped me get over my painkiller addiction that semester. They, you know, would like, encouraged me, like,
- [99:50]
B
looking to strengthen your health and well being. Tune in to the Dr. Tina show, one of Apple podcasts top alternative health shows. I'm Dr. Tina Moore, naturopathic physician and chiropractor and I cover topics like metabolic health, chronic diseases, pain management and more with expert interviews and solo episodes. I keep it no nonsense with a science backed approach to empower you to improve your health and resilience. New episodes every Thursday produced by Drake Drake Peterson and Wellness Loud.
- [100:16]
A
Even if it was like smoking pot instead or I even started smoking cigarettes, it was like, I mean, the feeling of cigarettes and Norco is an incredible feeling. But they were like, hey, like, you know, instead of like taking a painkiller, like, let's go out and like have a cigarette like that. That pill will be there when you come back. Like, like, okay. And then after a while you just like, forget about, oh, I forgot to take my pill. And it was that in combination with, you know, a lot of other people that helped me get through that addiction. But ultimately it was just one day. I want to say, like, it was after I, like after that semester, I was like, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. And I don't know what it was that motivated me to do that, but it just got Exhausting after a while, like waking up and relying on that to like, get me out of bed. There's still plenty of other things I was addicted to, like Xanax that lasted a lot longer. Pot obviously lasted up until very recently. The cigarettes that stopped shortly after college. But it's. It was kind of just like a revolving door of different substances that I was using just to kind of like live my life on a day to day basis rather than plan for the future. Because that's kind of what my brain was trained to like, think for. I just didn't want to think about the future. I didn't want to plan for the future. There's too much uncertainty in it. And I think one of the hardest things was realizing that everybody has that uncertainty. It's not unique to me. Like, life is all about ups and downs. Like, you can't have joy without sorrow. Like it's. And it's never like a straight line progression. Like you kind of have this mentality like, I need to be like constantly improving and moving forward, but you're going to have setbacks. Like some are going to be more significant than others. I think just my whole experience is kind of like, like an extreme situation that kind of like allows us to like put a magnifying glass on. Like that whole human phenomenon where it's not all about just like planning for like the best case scenario. Like, it's like you have to plan for the best case scenario, but like, you also like, have to be okay when it doesn't go that way. Like, it's okay to be sad like when it doesn't, or like when something tragic happens. It's obviously okay to be sad. Like sadness is a part of life. And that's like one of my least favorite questions is like, are you happy? Like, if a therapist ever asked me about that or asked me that question, I was like, I would move on. Because it's. It just doesn't make like there's gonna be some days where you're not happy. That's like really not what life's about. It's about like putting yourself in situations where you have more happy days than not and surrounding yourself with people that allow you that opportunity and will help pick you up when it things aren't going your way. And there's like so many things that you can't plan for. And just accepting that is extremely difficult, but I think extremely worthwhile. That's one of my most difficult things remaining in my recovery process because it's gonna always be ongoing. Is Just learning how to plan for the future while also being okay when it doesn't. You know, hopefully I lived the worst experience I've ever had and, like, that part's behind me, but I have to be like, okay if it isn't. And at least now I, like, know I have the tools to get some get through something like that or help others get through something like that. And there's like various coping mechanisms I used aside from the drugs to kind of like, try to get myself to that point. And you know, one of the biggest thing I think is kind of just like telling this whole story out loud. And like, I guess I tried to do that in a way. Like, I used to do like random open mic nights, like stand up comedy, like before COVID And that was like, kind of just like a way to like, talk about my injury in like, a light way. But I think it was more so to kind of like, just get people to like, more aware of certain things and also, like, take some of like, the taboo away from it. Specifically, like, hemiplegia. Like, there's a lot of things that like, are adapted to for paraplegic people, but hemiplegic people is like, not so much. Like, if I'm at like a cocktail function or like a work thing and like, I'm holding something like a drink in my right hand and, like, I have to, like, think ahead of, like, I'm like, constantly aware of, like, where there's like a table. I could put something down if, like, I have to shake somebody's hand. And like, that's something I'm like, constantly thinking about because I can't like, transfer it to my left hand and just like, little things like that. Like, like one of my jokes in my stand up comedy routine is like, you know, like, I eventually, like, I was in like a motorized wheelchair that like, first I would use with my breath and then I could use like my right hand. But then, like, they had me just like the standard rolly ones. And I was like, I mostly just traveled in circles because, like, yeah, like, I could only move my right arm and my right leg because they don't really have an adaptive device for someone who has hemiplegia to get around. I also got outcasts from the paraplegic, like, basketball team at the hospital I was at in Chicago. They, like, approached me to join and I was like, I had like, movement in my right leg, but I think I was just in like a standard wheelchair. And like, they saw me move my right leg and they're like, oh, like, sorry, like, you can't join us. And it's, like, one thing to be, like, kind of, like, discriminated against, but it's another thing to be discriminated against by a group that was formed because they were discriminated against. Like, there's, like, a lot of, like, little hurdles like that that I, like, have tried to explain to people and get people to understand about, like, the nature of not just, like, the trauma, but, like, the recovery process, because that was the most difficult part. And the trauma, like. Like, that actual night, like, looking back on the night of the injury, like. Like, I walked down that. Walk down that dock, or even, like, when somebody, like, invited me to join, like, I didn't give it a second thought. It was like, I'm like, that sounds like fun. Walked down the dock. I handed Jake, like, my cell phone and wallet and just dove in like I would any other time. And, like, it's impossible for me to regret that because there was no, like, decision in the moment. It wasn't like, oh, like, maybe I should, like, go down the ladder to get in or, like, do a cannonball instead of dive. It was just something that happened. And so it was like, that was, like, the one, like, piece of solitude, I guess I found was there's, like, no regret in that situation. It wasn't like somebody pushed me or, like, so, like, I couldn't really be angry at anyone for that. But that also was like, I've had a lot of trouble allowing others to, I guess, carry my burden. And I've always been in the mindset, like, this is mine to carry and mine alone. I made the decision to jump that night. I was like, you know, like, there's no other reason, like, for somebody else to, like, have to carry this with me. That also, like, plays into my problem with relationships. Not just romantic relationships, but friends and family, too. Another one of my coping mechanisms is just isolation. Like, I just don't want to be a burden on anyone. I'll be fine just, like, on my own. I don't want to be, like, an influence on anyone's plans. Like, you know, a lot of my friends are big golfers, and, like, oh, like, let's go on a golf trip. And then, like, they see me sitting there and, like, you see, like, on their face, like, oh, like, Zach can't, like, come to that. And then they try to, like, pivot right away. And so I would just kind of try to remove myself from those situations altogether. I just, like, yeah, I don't want to be, like, a reason for anyone to, like, do anything or not do anything. And that's been a personal struggle for a long time. I don't know if there's, like, a very, like, articulate or centralized, like, message behind, like, everything I've experienced, but when I did stop smoking pot, it led me to just start journaling. And writing was, like, one of. It's something, like, I actually enjoy and am passionate about. Like, and I think, like, I'm a pretty good writer. So, like, I just, like, started to do it just to, like, like, fill my time at the end of the day. And then I was like, well, maybe this could be, like, a book someday. But, like, I never like or still haven't been able to figure out, like, what would, like, make people want to read this or, like, hear about my story. Because I'm still trying to figure it out myself.
- [111:15]
B
Everybody.
- [111:15]
A
What's that?
- [111:16]
B
Is it. But isn't everybody?
- [111:17]
A
Yeah, that's kind of the thing. Yeah.
- [111:19]
B
It's like, no one has everything figured
- [111:21]
A
out, you know, for sure. And, yeah, it's like, I think just, like, the whole injury gave me a level of introspection I never would have had otherwise. And honestly, like, if I could go back in time and change what happened that night, I don't know that I would, because it made me who I am today. It gave me a lot more depth, a lot more just, like, I think, personality, and caused me to look at the world in a completely different way, which I'm very grateful for, because. Not that, like, I didn't like who I was before, but I just think I was doing a lot of things for the wrong reasons. And I think the one good thing to come out of it was just how it changed my perception on people, both good and bad, but people, society, and just, like, the various aspects of life. Like, the value of, like, love and, like, friendship. Like, I would have never gotten through what I did without that level of support because there wouldn't have been a reason for me to. It's like, the value of. It's like, you know, modern medicine and also the, like, perils of that. Like, you have to, you know, take what a doctor says, but also understand, like, everyone's a little bit unique. And I think that was something that took me a long time to figure out because I went through, like, another, I guess, period of depression, like, after I graduated college and I was living downtown with my little brother, like, downtown Chicago, and I decided to just move back home with my mom and, like, kind of reset and My doctor was like, here's a month's supply of Lexapro. Like, you're obviously depressed. And I just remember, like, looking at, like, staring at that bottle, like, on my dresser, like, And I was just like, no, I can't do it again. And I just flushed it, and it's like, that was one of the best decisions I made. And just like, yeah, the various drugs, like, I mentioned, my doctor, like, basically gave me, like, carte blanche, like, had as much as you want, and that worked out for me, and the opposite didn't work out for my friend. But it's kind of like you have to have, like, a level of, like, introspection to know, like, what's best for you. And while at the same time taking advice from loved ones and professionals. Just. It's just. Life's hard, and it just. It's kind of relentless. But, like, all the down times or the low points are what makes the high points, like, worth it. And that's what ultimately, like, what makes life beautiful is, like, those ups and downs and, like, the various emotions and the various, like, I don't know, wins and losses and friends that come and go. And it's just been a very introspective experience to kind of, like, take a step back now with, like, a sober mind and try to, like, piece together everything I've learned as best I can. But it's just. It's like one of those things where I knew, like, I've, like, had a story to tell for a while, but never really knew, like, what it was exactly I wanted to say. And, like, even with my family, there's stuff on here, like, that they probably never heard before. But it's kind of like, I've always wanted, like, somebody to, like, just ask the right questions. But obviously now I realize, like, that's not fair because I don't know what the right questions are.
- [116:02]
B
And I think, too, that's the beauty and you being able to write things out because there are no questions. It's kind of just putting and pouring all of your thoughts out on paper. And I think, too, when you said, like, who would read it or who would want to read it? I think any person that has gone through an experience where they've had trauma or they've had this situation, even if it's not necessarily a physical accident, you know, just somewhere where they felt like they had to completely start over and feelings of helplessness and, like, you can't do things on your own or, like, your life has completely changed, you know, I think that anyone would want to read that as a form of understanding or a coping mechanism or for motivation for themselves. And you might. I'm sure there's been plenty of times, like you mentioned, that you didn't feel those ways yourself, but I think that relatability is what people would want to read and would relate to.
- [116:53]
A
Yeah, that's very good point. And actually, this. There was, like, something that happened recently. Someone I know going through a divorce at, like, a pretty young age is, like. I was, like, trying to find ways to relate to the situation myself, but, like, don't have many. Like, I've had one serious relationship in my entire life, and so I was, like, struggling myself to, like, figure out how to, like, be a support. And then he said, like. Like, oh, you have no idea what it's like to, like, you know, you have your whole life. Like, you know, you think you have you figured out, like, this, like, specific one was, like, literally overnight, it just, like, ended. Like, no one saw it coming. He's like, it's like. And now it's just, like, it's just over. Like, I. I have no idea what, like, to do with my house and this and that, and I'm like, okay. That I can relate to. Like, I. Like, I. I've been there, like, in a very different way, but, like.
- [117:58]
B
Right. But it's those types of feelings of having no idea what the future holds or what's next and having things change in a matter of a day.
- [118:08]
A
Yeah, it's. It's. I think, just in today's society, like, really hard for people to, like, relate on, like, a truly, like, personal level is everything. There's so much that's just, like. So, I don't know, like, not fake, but just kind of. Yeah. And I think people are losing the ability to communicate in meaningful ways. And I think, like, this is a great forum to, like, keep that alive. I've heard, like, so many interesting stories on the show where it's like. Like, I see the title. I'm like, Like, I. Like, I don't know how, like, that, like. Like, how I could, like, see any interest in that. But then, like, I listen to it. I'm like, oh, my God.
- [118:57]
B
Like, right.
- [118:58]
A
That's just something, like, I think. I hope, like, continues, because, like, we're gonna need, like, just meaningful conversations to continue if, like, we want to just, like, maintain our humanity. And like, I mentioned that nurse. Like, I'm sure, like, there's gonna be fewer and fewer of those as, like, life goes on. Like, but you need Those, like, it's
- [119:28]
B
the people that give you hope. You know, it allows you to get through tough days, tough times in life. And, you know, like, you mentioned, you. It's interesting what it does to be able to hear people's stories that you think you would never relate to. And then you're like, wait a second, I. I get that. Or I can understand that. And it's cool, too. You know, we. We are so often in our own little bubble and just going through the motions of life, so to hear somebody else's story, it can put things into perspective, and it can just make you. You know, it. It allows you to relate to another human being without even really speaking to them, but still in a very authentic way. You know, not through pictures or. Or whatever somebody wants to portray themselves as. It's a very, like, real and raw conversation.
- [120:11]
A
Yeah, I was like. I think, like, at the beginning, I was, like, not sure, like, how much I really could open up, but it's, like, felt more and more comfortable as, like, time went on. And, I mean, honestly, I could go on for hours and hours.
- [120:28]
B
Yeah, there's so many parts to your story and to anyone's, you know, and
- [120:34]
A
like I said, it's just like, I'm kind of, like, looking for, like, in a conclusion, more or less, but, like, also know they'll, like, never find it, but I think there's meaning in just searching for it.
- [120:48]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Everyone is. And, you know, it depends on the day. You could have days where you feel like, all right, I think I'm starting to figure this out. And then two days later, have a day where you're like, you know what? I have no fucking idea. You know, it's always changing. And I think that is part of being human. You know, we never know. Things are always changing, whether it's because we are changing it or because it's just. That's just how life is, you know, dealing our cards. But I think, obviously, like, you've mentioned, by listening to stories. And I always, always encourage people, you know, there's no story too big or too small. Everyone has one. Always share it. Always talk about your story. Always write it. You know, I always encourage people, if they enjoy writing, write a book. Even if it's just for yourself. You know, just. It's a really incredible, powerful thing to do. And to be able to share your story is extremely moving, you know, and it's something that. It's a very vulnerable experience. It's. It's incredible. It's no small thing.
- [121:41]
A
Yeah, it's Very easy to get distracted by, like, AI and like, everything in the world use that as, like, kind of a crutch for everything. Like, even, like, I started putting together these journals into a very loose book structure. And then, like, I wrote, like, a prologue to, like, and I spent, like, a lot of time on it, sent it to one friend, and then, like, I put it through AI and, like, just make this better. Oh, man, that is better. Like, like, so it's. But it also, like, I mean, it was mostly my words that went into it, but it's perfect. It takes the humanity out of it a little bit too. Like, like, okay, like, maybe that sentence wasn't worded perfectly, but, like, that was how I experienced it.
- [122:28]
B
Right.
- [122:29]
A
You know, and I think there's something to say in just, like, actual human creativity. I don't know if that will ever be able to be replicated or human care, especially, like, the top surgeons in the world are going to be replaced by AI before, like, the nurse at, like, your local hospital. It's something that I hope we can figure out a way to maintain because it's what saved me, and I'm sure it's going to save a lot more people.
- [123:00]
B
Yeah, well, you did an incredible job at telling your story.
- [123:05]
A
Are you just saying that? Did I actually do.
- [123:07]
B
Yeah. I'm completely lying to your face. No, you did an incredible job. It's the. You know, everybody tells their stories in different ways, and that is what you were just saying. That's the beauty and being human. You know, there's all different ways to tell your story. There's all different parts of your journey that you're at when you're telling your story. You know, there's people that can tell their story when they are very much in everything that's happening, maybe when they're right out of it, maybe when they're 20 years down the road healed, you know, and who knows where. Where you'll be at that time, whether it's, you know, you've kind of moved on and left it behind, or you're still sharing your story and it's a completely different perspective then than it is today. But there's no part of your journey and telling your story that is negative or bad. So you did incredible. You know, there's people that aren't even able to articulate into words how they're feeling. So the fact that you're able to even do that, you know, that you're able to sit here four hours and say, like, this is how I felt in this moment. And recall the memories and the traumatic experiences and how you felt and the people around you. That's very moving and powerful. It's. It's important.
- [124:11]
A
Yeah.
- [124:12]
B
And I wouldn't sit here and lie and say that if I didn't mean it.
- [124:14]
A
Yeah, no. I've been watching your show for a while. Is. It's like one of those things where, you know, you go through, like your day to day life and like, yeah, like, that pays the bills. But this is like, what's like, truly, like, meaningful or like, has like, value is like I mentioned I was at a work conference in Austin that I left early and I had no problem just saying, like, okay, like, Keith, you're on your own. I'm leaving early to go do this. Is that, like, that's what matters? Like, work will be work, like, that'll be there. At the end of the day, you'll lose clients, gain client. Like, this is like. And I wish I could do a better job at like, doing like, outreach, like other spinal cord injury patients, because I did it a little bit, like, when maybe I was a little too fresh off of it. And it just was very difficult to, like, relive that experience, like, walk into a hospital room and see someone, like, maybe even in worse condition than I was and try to tell them it's going to be okay. Because at the end of the day, I just got super lucky. Like, I should be dead. Like, I definitely shouldn't be walking or, like, have been able to like, fly here on my own and drive here on my own. But all I ever wanted was just independence. And I have that. And it's like I always say, like, if I can get up at like, and get my own glass of water, that's all I need. Because, like, having to rely on other people to do simple things is. It's. It's a very, like, demoralizing experience. And I just.
- [125:58]
B
Yeah, I think you survive for a reason. And whether it's to prove to yourself that you can get through anything, or if it's to inspire others and share your story and to change other people's lives, you know, or both, who knows? But you survive for a reason. You beat the odds, you know, and that's that you can say, like, oh, I should be dead, but like, no, you shouldn't, because if you were supposed to be, you would be. So there is a reason why you're here. And I think you should continue to tell your story. You'll only get better at it. And, you know, there could be a time whether it's, you know, next month or in 10 years from now that you're able to help other, you know, other people that were in the situation that you were in. And it's not a process to rush. You know, you'll know when it feels right and when you're ready for it and that's that, you know. But I think this is a huge thing to do and it's incredible that you were able to do it all on your own. Seriously.
- [126:48]
A
One of my favorite sayings is I don't. I like to say I made it up on my own, but I like heard it, probably heard it somewhere, is like, everything that's meant to happen will happen and everything that will happen is meant to happen. And it's just, it's not to say like everything's predetermined, like we decide our own fate, but it's kind of like there's a reason behind everything. And you may not realize it now, but like that bad thing that happened to you like this morning could be like something like lead to something amazing down the line. And that's my whole view with like this injury is like, yeah, that was a shitty situation and a tragic moment for myself and a lot of other people. But I think, like, like I said, I wouldn't, I wouldn't go back in time and change it. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Are you looking for a beach read this summer? May I suggest your big wireless bill? It's got suspense, mystery, a slightly flat emotional arc, and a shocking twist where you realize you've been overpaying the entire time.
- [127:51]
B
Fortunately, that Go Mint story is better.
- [127:53]
A
Every plan, $15 a month, even unlimited.
- [127:55]
B
That's it.
- [127:56]
A
Happy ending, zero tears. Give it a try at mintmobile. Com.
- [128:00]
B
Switch upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month. Equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. C terms.