Escaping the Father of My Child: Domestic Abuse

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Escaping the Father of My Child: Domestic Abuse"

Podcast: We're All Insane
Host: Devorah Roloff
Episode Release Date: July 14, 2025
Guest: Emily
Duration: Approximately 1 hour and 55 minutes

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Introduction

In this gripping and heartfelt episode of "We're All Insane," host Devorah Roloff welcomes Emily, who courageously shares her harrowing journey of enduring and escaping an abusive relationship with the father of her child. Through raw and unfiltered storytelling, Emily delves into the complexities of recognizing abuse, the challenges of breaking free, and the path to healing and empowerment.

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How They Met and Began Dating

Emily recounts meeting the father of her child during their early years, reconnecting as young adults after years of limited interaction.

Emily [01:02]: "We met very early on in life. We met in second grade... I was excited because it was someone I knew, had known since I was 8."

Their initial interactions were positive, fostering a sense of safety and affection. Emily was impressed by his apparent stability and respect, viewing multiple behaviors as green flags in their budding relationship.

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Early Signs and Initial Escalation

The relationship seemed idyllic for the first few months, with Emily highlighting moments that contradicted typical abusive patterns. However, subtle red flags began to emerge.

Emily [07:29]: "He didn't have any interest in meeting my family... looking back, that's the only thing that bothered me in a different situation."

Despite these minor concerns, the relationship progressed, culminating in a significant incident shortly after their first few months together.

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First Incidents of Abuse

In January, during a visit to his friend's house, Emily experiences the first overt signs of abuse. A combination of excessive drinking and external conflicts triggered aggressive behavior from her partner.

Emily [02:35]: "He was so respectful... I was totally cool with that."

However, the night took a dark turn when his demeanor shifted drastically, leading to verbal and physical abuse.

Emily [11:35]: "He started calling me 'a dumb bitch'... I had never been spoken to that way."

Attempting to de-escalate, Emily sought help from the friends present, but their response was inadequate and dismissive.

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Patterns of Abuse and Control

As the relationship progressed, the abuse became more frequent and severe, though not always overtly violent. Emily describes a gradual increase in controlling behaviors and emotional manipulation.

Emily [35:54]: "I swept it under the rug... I was still falling in love with him and saw so much potential."

Her sense of isolation intensified as she grappled with recognizing the abusive dynamics, often attributing the behavior to his past traumas and attempting to support his efforts to change.

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Impact of Pregnancy and Escalation

Discovering she was pregnant marked a turning point in the relationship. Emily anticipated increased support but instead faced heightened control and abuse.

Emily [41:21]: "He didn't have a reaction. He was very neutral."

Her partner’s infidelity surfaced during this period, leading to heightened tensions and further emotional abuse. Despite recognizing the abuse, Emily struggled to find the strength to leave, fearing for her and her child's safety.

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Critical Incident and Decision to Leave

A pivotal moment occurred when Emily's partner assaulted her again, leading her to realize the immediate danger she and her child were in. Despite feeling overwhelmingly scared, Emily took decisive action to protect herself and her daughter.

Emily [88:03]: "Once he got me off with the pillow, all finally came crashing down on me..."

With the support of her father, Emily managed to involve law enforcement, leading to her partner's arrest. This marked the beginning of her journey toward safety and healing.

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Healing and Empowerment

Post-separation, Emily reflects on the emotional and psychological toll of the abuse. Through therapy and the support of her new husband, she begins to rebuild her identity and overcome the lingering effects of trauma.

Emily [112:53]: "This is something that happened to me, not something I chose. I didn't choose for someone I cared about to treat me like that."

She emphasizes the importance of seeking professional help and the transformative power of shifting from a victim mindset to one of survival and empowerment.

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Conclusion

Emily's story is a poignant testament to the resilience of the human spirit in the face of domestic abuse. Her courage in sharing her experience serves as a beacon of hope and strength for others in similar situations. The episode underscores the critical importance of recognizing abuse, seeking support, and reclaiming one's life and sense of self.

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Key Takeaways

• Recognizing Abuse: Subtle signs can precede overt abusive behaviors. Early red flags should not be overlooked.

• Isolation and Control: Abusers often use isolation and manipulation to maintain control over their victims.

• Importance of Support Systems: Having a supportive network is crucial in escaping abusive relationships.

• Healing is Possible: With the right support and resources, survivors can rebuild their lives and regain their sense of self.

• Therapy and Empowerment: Professional help can facilitate the healing process and help survivors shift their narrative from victimhood to empowerment.

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Emily's journey, as shared in this episode, not only sheds light on the complexities of recognizing and escaping an abusive relationship but also highlights the enduring strength and capacity for healing within survivors.

Transcript

[Emily]

On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone with the Venmo Debit card, you can Venmo everything. Your favorite band's merch. You can Venmo this or their next.

[Sarah]

Show, you can Venmo that.

[Emily]

Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license by MasterCard International Incorporated Card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply. I am here today to talk about the abusive relationship I experienced with the the biological father of my child. I'm going to start just by how we met because we met very early on in life. We met in second grade.

[Sarah]

So yeah, long time.

[Emily]

Yeah, we were never super close. We just, we had similar friends. We knew who we were in high school. We had a few in person interactions just once again like kind of ran in the same circles. I never thought much of him. I knew growing up with him he had a rougher home life. He had been in foster care at some point. I knew there was some drug issues in his family. So I honestly always had some empathy for him because he always just seemed like the sweetest. Like didn't have a bad reputation, was so social. Everyone really enjoyed being around him and he was very friendly and sweet and so when he, he reached out to me over social media in 2019 and I had just gotten out of a long term relationship about four to five months earlier. So I was excited. I was just trying to have fun and I had been on dating sites and stuff but it's so nerve wracking when it's with total strangers.

[Sarah]

So you guys didn't talk in that gap of like.

[Emily]

No, no. So we, yeah, we didn't have any sort of close relationship or anything like that. Just knew of each other and once again maybe a few in person interactions in like high school and elementary school. We had to because we were all kids on the playground.

[Sarah]

How old were you when you guys reconnected?

[Emily]

I was 19 and he was 20.

[Sarah]

Got it.

[Emily]

So he is a year older than me. I believe he was held back a year especially just due he was in foster care when he was younger, I want to say he got out when he was around 3. So all of that, I believe, held him back in that way. Yeah. So I was excited because it was someone I knew, had known since I was 8. So there was, I think that made me automatically have a lot more of a felt sense of safety with him. And it didn't even, like, cross my mind, you know. Yeah, he could be any different type of person than I had seen him in my mind for all of those years. And there was no evidence to the contrary, like never any rumors going around about him or anything like that. So I was excited. He had messaged me, we talked for two days and he just asked me eventually to just come over to his house and hang out. And at that point, once again, being 19, freshly out of a, like two and a half year relationship, I was excited, wanted to have fun, and kind of was going into it expecting, like, we might just hook up or something, you know, and at least it's with someone I know and like feel safe with. And I was totally cool with that. Like I was going into it expecting it just being that age and a guy randomly invites you over, you know, so kind of have an idea of what it could lead to. So I was really surprised, pleasantly surprised, when he was not like that at all. He was so respectful. We just sat on his couch. Like, I didn't even see his room the first time we went to his house. His plate. He had a super sweet roommate he introduced me to. It was just very comfortable. We just sat on the couch, watched It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia for like three hours and talked. And at most, like our arms touched when we were sitting next to each other. So I left that interaction feeling really good and confident about it and just getting those butterflies. Like I don't know if you've ever experienced when you meet someone and you just like in your. You just have that thought cross your mind where you're just like, I'm going to date this person. Like, we're going to. Yeah, Like, I just knew it right then and there. I'm. I'm going to be in a relationship with this person. I don't know when, I don't know how, but we're going to be in a relationship. Relationship. And I was just happy. I was pumped. He seemed so sweet. And we kept chatting, we talked for a couple months. It took us like three months to start dating. We started talking in July of 2019. Didn't start dating until October, I think. And we were hanging out quite a bit and just same thing. Super fun, super nice, very respectful. Didn't try and make a move on me once. Like, I was just so impressed. It was honestly kind of the opposite of how I expected him to be.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Emily]

Because he is. He's. He's like a skater boy and kind of has that toot about him. Even though I knew he was super sweet, he did have that kind of like, bad boy Persona.

[Sarah]

So really going into anything, we kind of have that mindset of, oh, everybody knows what guys want. You know what I mean?

[Emily]

I feel like.

[Sarah]

I feel like it's almost not safer, but it's better to think that way than to, like, think the opposite and then have your hopes let down and be like, oh, I thought he actually just wanted to.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Even though that's how it should be.

[Emily]

Exactly. Yeah. So I was super impressed. So impressed. Like, I swear, even past relationships hadn't been treated with that much respect. I was just like, wow, that's impressive. And there was all these green flags. He was 20 years old, providing for himself, working a job in construction for his dad. Like, would get up at 5 in the morning every morning to go to work. Would come home, like, just on a really good schedule. Had a super cool apartment, super clean. Like, just all. Just every green flag you can think of. Like, I'm like, he has his together, like, wow, he's really taking care of himself and really has, from what I had heard in the past, had pulled. Pulled himself out of a bad family system. And I thought that was really cool and amazing. So we started dating in October of 2019, and once again, just the first three months were fantastic. Just great. No red flags, super sweet. I would say the only thing that was different from past relationships I noticed is he didn't have interest in meeting my family. But of course, in the beginning, I have no expectation of that. So it wasn't a red flag to me or weird to me. But looking back, he never had any interest in any of it.

[Sarah]

Would you ask? And he just didn't want to or.

[Emily]

Yeah. So I'm someone. I'm super close with my family. I guess I could probably give a little bit of backstory about my personal life. I. Both my parents, they divorced. They divorced when I was very young, but they always got along. I have an amazing dad. He's literally one of my favorite people in the whole wide world. And same goes for my mom. I mean, just great parents. I have two amazing brothers, just a wonderful home life. Obviously, things happen in my childhood, but things Happen to everyone. But I always had my family. It wasn't like my family causing trauma in my life. It was outside forces. And then I always had this amazing, secure, safe family unit to be there for me. So I had never experienced anything like he had growing up. I know there was a lot of violence in his home and once again, drugs. And he had been in the foster care system, all that stuff. Stability, just no stability. And I had, once again, even given any outside situations that happen, I had a lot of stability in my family. So I always had that going for me. And it wasn't like a. It wasn't a bad reaction.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Emily]

He wasn't like, no, why would I want to meet your family? It was just. There was always a reason not to. Okay. It was. It wasn't something like, for me, when I'm with someone and my husband now, it's important to me that they want to know my family, be close with my family, because I'm so close to them and it's a part of you, so. Exactly. And my family is very amazing. They're very welcoming. They've welcomed every partner I've ever had into the fold. Like, they're one of us. And, yeah, I've never had any sort of issues. I've always had my partners be very close with my family just because it's what comes naturally. So I'd say looking back, that's the only thing I noticed in those first couple months that maybe would have bothered me in a different situation, but it just didn't. It just. I was on such a high from how great things were going. And once again, looking back, I can see that he was very much so, just mirroring a lot of my behavior and who I was. So it was very easy for us to get along and have a good time. And for me to feel like, oh, my gosh, we're just so perfect for each other. And this is so amazing because he mirrored a lot of my behavior and kind of knew how to do that. It was never genuinely who he was, which I saw that later. So we were dating for about three months. October to December was fantastic. And then January rolls around, so we're about four months in at this point. And we were going to one of his friend's house. It was about 45 minutes away from the area we lived in. So we were going to stay the night because we were planning on having some drinks, just going bowling, having some fun, and his friends kind of lived out in the boonies. So we were just going to stay the Night there. Have a good time. So we drove out there. Everything's totally fine, totally great. We get there, his friends are super sweet and nice, and we all start drinking. And he started drinking a lot. Like, more than I had ever seen him drink. Just straight pulls of liquor. Like, I had seen him maybe sit down and have, like, a couple beers before that. But he. It's like he just went into this mode where he just wanted to be, like, this party animal. And I. I was a little uneasy. But also, there was no violence or red flags in our relationship before that. So I wasn't nervous in that way. I wasn't like, oh, something bad's going to happen.

[Sarah]

Was that your first time that you guys got together with his friends or you've hung out with them before?

[Emily]

No. So this was actually our. My very first time being around them and meeting them. He had been around the two other people we were hanging out with that night, and it was just kind of like a couple's hangout. I was, like, tagging along, meeting them for the first time. And it was one of his close friends that he skated with, I believe. So we get there, they start drinking quite a bit. And, I mean, we're all drinking, and we end up getting up and going to the bowling alley fairly quickly. And this other couple, they start. They had started bickering at each other. And, like, in my brain, I'm just like, whatever. They're both just, like, kind of drunk, and they just might not have the best relationship. That's. That's their deal. It's not really my business. So we're walking out to their car, and the other gal that's there is driving. So the other girlfriend that's there is driving, and she. We get to her car, and she asked me, she was like, can you sit in the front seat? So my boyfriend can't sit in the front seat. I don't want him to sit by me. And I. I don't know. These people are just like, okay, I'll get in the front seat. Okay, no problem. Because in my head, I'm like, it's not like he's gonna get upset with me. I don't know these people. So I get in the front seat, and him and his friend get in the back, and they're just talk. They just started spouting nonsense, like, just cursing and yelling. And eventually it got to a point I noticed my partner was speaking to me, and he had started calling, like. He had just started calling me like, you're just a dumb bitch. You're a dumb slut. Like, you're stupid, you're. And I. My brain just like short circuited. I had never been spoken to that way, let alone with no reasoning behind it. My assumption and is he got all riled up with his friend and his friend was like, fuck these people. Like, fuck them. And I was just shocked. Like, I was, what is he talking about? And we pull into the bowling alley and at this point I just, I don't. I'm not reacting, I'm not saying, like, my face is just forward and I'm just. I can't even believe what's being said because he's directly behind me and I'm just like, what? So we pull into the bowling alley and I just try and get out because I'm like, I'm leaving these people in this car. And I will get out and wait until everyone's ready to get their crap together and go bowling because that's what we're here for. And so I go to get out of the car and he, like, I had my head rest up a little bit where there was like some space, space. And he grabbed my hair. Like, he grabbed my hair and then he was able to reach around and grab my neck. And like, while this was happening, he's still like cursing at me, freaking out. So at this point, I went into full blown fight or flight. I was always taught growing up, once again, stable, safe family. So I'm taught, when you're in a situation like this, go get help. So my automatic reaction was I just like ripped myself out of his grasp and ran right into the bowling alley and went up to the front desk and was like, I need help. I need a safe place to sit. I'm not safe. I need help. And I think, I think that's all I told them in that moment while.

[Sarah]

That was happening, was the other girl or guy saying anything or reacting.

[Emily]

So they were like having almost the same thing. Go on.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Emily]

Like, it seemed like to them that was probably unfortunately a norm because they just. And I'll get back to, like, how they reacted because I end up going back to the car. So I go into the bowling alley, ask for help. They sit me in the back, grab me some water. They were super sweet, super amazing. And I'm just sitting there and they had left me alone for a minute and it all just hit me and I was like, okay. Like, I'm like, okay, he's drunk. His stupid friend got him riled up. And like, now I can't, Like, I don't want the police to get called and this. Like, I need. We just need to all calm down. And I. It was kind of that first reaction of where I had an opportunity to do something. But my care for him and who I thought he was as a person, I didn't think he deserved that kind of reaction. I thought I could help. You know, I'm like, I can calm him down, fix it. Like, I don't think he meant anything he said, which talking about it now sounds crazy to me.

[Sarah]

I don't think so, because you also were only 19 years old. And I think that you don't have the experience or the tools or the understanding to know that. Like, I think part of you can know, like, this is scary and this is wrong. But I also think when you're that young and you haven't experienced something like that before, that I don't think your immediate reaction is to call the cops. I don't think that that would be like. I just look back when I was 19, I would. I wouldn't have done it. I think that you're. It's almost like the more natural, normal thing to do is to make excuses, especially when you haven't experienced something like that before. And I think reflecting back when you're older and when you know the reality of the situation, of course you can be like, that was done with me. I should have done this. But, like, in those moments, that's just not the reality of the situation or what we're thinking or how we're feeling. And that's. 19 is still really young.

[Emily]

Yeah. No, and I appreciate you saying that. You'll. You might catch me kind of on that train of thought a lot.

[Sarah]

And you can.

[Emily]

Yeah. So I do appreciate that. It is. It is very true. I had no tools, Never been treated like that before. Never had to call the cops in my life or even go into a place of business and beg for help. So I was terrified. There was also an element of being embarrassed once, you know, I was sitting there and, like, no one else was around me. I wasn't around. The yelling. No employees are around me. And I was like, well, what do I. Like? I just got up and left. I just. I got up and left. I went back out. They were all standing out by the car, and I walked out once again. The other couple we were there with, they were just in their own world pretty much. While everything escalates between my partner and I the rest of this evening, this other couple is just in their own world of toxicity as well. Just Doing their own thing like this. I don't know if it was a norm or what, but it didn't seem to be alarming to them what was happening. So I went back out expecting that my partner would have calmed down and been like, oh, like, I'm so sorry. Yeah, not the case. He was very upset. I had gone into the bowling alley, obviously very worried he was going to get into some sort of trouble. So I walked back out and pretty much right when I got by that car, he came up to me and opened the door and just once again, like kind of same motion grabbed the back of my neck and just threw me back in the car. And at that point, we're heading back. I don't know what to do. We've all been drinking. I'm not gonna drive under the influence. He's obviously not gonna be driving. And I'm not asking this other couple for anything. So we head back to the place and I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna go back, go to sleep. We'll wake up in the morning and leave and we'll be all sober by then and figure out the rest tomorrow, but we just need to go back and go to sleep. So we get back and he's just in this. The other couple, I should mention goes off to their room like they're not in the same room as us any longer. And it's a very large house. Like we're not in a confined space by any means. So my partner and I are very separated from this other couple once we get back to the house.

[Sarah]

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[Emily]

And.

[Sarah]

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[Emily]

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He was in this hard relationship. Like he can sit there and be self aware enough to recognize abuse and being treated poorly. So once again just another green flag in my book. So he had mentioned that to me obviously, very much so painting her as the aggressor and himself as the victim. So he's in this rage and he started calling me by her name and he I went to go lay down on this other couch. It was like there was a living room and then a sunken living room. Once again, very big house. So I went to lay on a couch in the sunken living room and like above me was another couch in the other living room and there wasn't really like a wall or anything covering that. So I'm laying down, just trying to go to sleep. He's in a rage once again, just spouting nonsense, freaking out. I keep hearing him say his ex's name. So I'm just like, he is just out. He's just beyond out of it. And me laying down and taking space and not interacting with him in that moment, I think very much so upset him because the next thing I know is he was right behind me. Like I was laying on my side and he just got behind me and like for a split second I'm like, okay, he's laying down. That was not the case. He had come up behind me and just started hitting me, like, just hitting my stomach, hitting my chest, like, just hitting like that whole area of my body just as hard as it can. So I roll off the couch and I just burst into tears. I had never been hit in my whole entire life by anyone, let alone a male or my partner. So I get up, try to get to the other living room and fall. And he like, I go up the stairs from the sunken living room and I trip and fall. And he gets on top of me, trying to like, hold me down. Like, he's like, trying to hold like my arms like this and like my chest like this. And he's just swinging, just freaking out, still calling me his ex's name. And so at this point, I'm still thinking, I'm like, oh my gosh, he thinks I'm his ex. Like, he must think I'm attacking him or something. But once again, I was just laying there. So looking back at it now, you know, can kind of put that into perspective. So I eventually am able to. To get myself up off the floor and I have that reaction like I did at the bowling alley. I book it into this other couple's room. Like they're quite literally laying in bed, I think, almost completely naked. And I ran in and jumped on top of them and was like, you guys need to help me. He's hitting me. Da, da, da, da. And I mean, they had a panicked reaction. Like, they seemed concerned, but it wasn't concern for my well being. It was more concern on, like, how do we calm him down? How do we get him sorted out? Obviously he's struggling or having like an issue right now or something going on. It was never, what do you want us to do? Do we need to call the cops? Do you? Like, nothing like that. So once again, to me, it's just not even in my brain to call the cops. Like, I ran in here, jumped on these people, begged for help, and if they're not gonna call the cops, I mean, like you said, 19, no tools. Never been treated like this before. So I was like, I guess, I guess it's just not a situation you call the cops. And my partner, after I ran in there, he hadn't tried to come back in the room or anything. So I'm sitting in there, his friend tries to go out there and talk to him. And he's freaking out at his friend too, like, you know, saying, f you, da, da, da. Like, trying to almost kick him out of his own house. And like, he just didn't know where he was, he was so incoherent. So eventually I walked out and he can't get him to calm down. I can't get him to calm down. And I grabbed my keys and I'm like, I'm leaving. Like, I'm going home. And this is dead of winter where I live, and we can get some pretty severe weather in the winters. And we're also out in the boonies where the weather's worse. So I start going up and he's following me, chasing after me. I try and get in my car before he can get to it, but I had, at the time, I had a little two door Hyundai accent, like manual everything, crank windows, you know. So my door, I couldn't, like, my door was just unlocked. He was able to get in my car. I couldn't automatically lock it or anything like that. He was just able to get in it before I could stop him. And so I'm like, you know what, whatever, we're gonna, we're gonna go home because you can't be here right now treating these people like this in their house. And I don't know what the hell we're gonna do about our situation, but we have to like, get. This is just craziness. So I start driving and once I get up to the freeway, up to speed, we're going about 60, 65, and I'm barely saying anything. He starts opening the door to my car and he unbuckles himself and he's hanging outside of my car While I'm going 60 miles per hour and I'm screaming like, I don't think I had ever screamed so loud in my life. I mean, I'm sitting here being like, this person is about to jump out of my car and die while I'm going like this speed. And so, you know, the whole nine yards. He's threatening to take his own life. He just wants me to wait until he's sobered up and calm down. Like he doesn't want to lose me. He's so sorry he thought I was his ex. Da Da, da, da. And the whole time, I can't focus because he's saying all of this while hanging out of my car. So I'm just sitting there being like. Like, just screaming, like, stop, stop, stop. Get in the car. Like, I can't focus on anything until you're not hanging out of my car. So we end up getting to his house, and I wanted to go home. We lived in separate apartments. I wanted to go back to my place because I was like, I'm never seeing this dude again after this. Like, this is crazy. So. But he. He won't. He's threatening his life. He's begging me to come in. He's like, please just let me talk to you. Like, please just come in tonight. All the things you can think of. And so I do. I mean, I'm terrified. I had never been put in a position like that, clearly, the way he was acting, I knew he was capable of doing something harmful. So I went in with them. And, I mean, once again, he gave me the explanation he was trying to give me that night, that he thought I was his ex, and he thought I was attacking him, and. And he was in danger, and that's why he hit me. And he thought I. Yeah. He thought I was trying to hurt him. And to me, of course, I'm like, okay, obviously I wasn't doing anything to make you feel that way, but I had never been in an abusive relationship before.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And I don't think it helps that there was alcohol.

[Emily]

Oh, no.

[Sarah]

In bulk.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

That can make you look back on things and be like, well, did it really happen that way? And then on top of it, I think you could look at it as, okay, was he just, like, so drunk that he was literally losing his mind? Like, I feel like that allows you to kind of think of more excuses in your mind or not see things as clearly.

[Emily]

Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, for me, for someone to even say out loud that he thought I was someone else, I mean, that just proved to me I was like, okay, so you were just out of it. You just genuinely didn't know what was going on? Of course, once again, looking back, I can see, like, okay, that was him. Like, even if everything he said that night was true and exactly how he felt and how it went, even if that's the case, it showed me what he was capable of and the violence he was capable of showing to someone else. But, of course, I just didn't think of it that way. I didn't. I was like, okay, well, we need to get you Better. Like, obviously, you're still struggling from this relationship you just had, which is totally understandable. I mean, I'm sitting there being like, I've never been through something like that, so I can't really speak on it, but I want to help you. And, I mean, he did everything you could. He stopped drinking hard liquor. He would still have beers every now and again, but he, for most of our relationship, completely stopped drinking hard liquor. That was like, a hard boundary, which I really respected him for sticking to it. And once again, just a green flag to me and impressed me. I was like, okay, like, something really messed up happened. It was due to this, and you're willing to cut that out of your life. Like, that's a green flag. That's great. So after that, I mean, obviously, as disturbing and traumatic as it was, I just. I swept it under the rug. I'm still right in the middle of falling in love with this person and see so much potential in him. So I just was like, okay, we're moving on from this. Like, obviously, that behavior is never okay in our relationship or in any relationship you have with someone, but I'm not experienced in that kind of thing. And he's had a lot of that in his life. So it was easy for me to make that experience excuse for him and to see it that way and feel bad for him rather than caring about what had happened to me or my own safety or how that situation affected me. So that happened, and everything was pretty calm for quite a while after that. Covid started happening. We lived. He moved into my place with me during COVID I was living with my older brother at the time, and my older brother was okay with it. And my older brother was actually the only person who had known what happened that night, because while, like I said, I gave him all those excuses, was feeling all those ways, I still had that little voice in the back of my head because I had woken up. I have bruises everywhere. And so I was like, you know what? I'm gonna take some pictures of these, send them to my older brother, have him keep them. Because I didn't want to tell my parents. You know, I didn't. I just. My older brother is a very neutral person, very passive, and just a very peaceful man.

[Sarah]

What was his reaction when you sent him that?

[Emily]

Exactly what I thought it would be. I. Because I knew if I texted him that reassured him I was okay and told him what was going on, he would trust me. You know, he was the one person I was like, I can give this information to. And if I explain this to him.

[Sarah]

He won't run with it.

[Emily]

He's not going to run with it. Which, I mean, now, looking back at that, I. I feel terrible for doing that to him, because I know he holds a lot of guilt over that situation and wishing, obviously, things progressed to a much scarier point. So he sees it as his fault, but I very much so see it as the fact that I took advantage of knowing that he wouldn't tell anyone, and I put him in an unfair position.

[Sarah]

So I think, in a way, it's something where, like you said, you kind of knew that you should tell somebody, but you didn't want to go as far as, like, telling your parents. Because I think that when you do that, you're opening up a door of, like, okay, well, they're gonna hate him, and they're not gonna want me to be with him. And, like, you know, and I think that you were still so unsure and confused that in that moment, you did what you thought was kind of safe, but, like, still neutral.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

You know.

[Emily]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Sarah]

And that's no one's fault. That's not your fault. That's not, you know, your brother's guilt to have. I think that just in that moment, that just seemed like the best resource and option.

[Emily]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Sarah]

And I honestly.

[Emily]

I mean, I'm so safest for me.

[Sarah]

I think it's good that you even thought to take pictures of it.

[Emily]

Yeah, Well, I just. I knew the only abuse I had ever witnessed or suffered in my life before that my mom married someone when I. I want to say they got married, and we moved to a different city when I was around, like, 9 or 10, was when we moved, probably more like 10. And he was. He wasn't super physically abusive, but he was very, very mentally and emotionally abusive towards my mom and myself. And, I mean, he was, in my opinion, physically abusive. Like, I knew to do that because my mom ended up having to get a restraining order, and she had bruises on her arms, and that's, like, part of what she used for the evidence and everything. So that was the only thing I had witnessed. So I also. I just did what I had seen done before. I was like, I need to take pictures of this. I need to document it. Even if I stay, I need to make sure I have this just in case. So that's really the only experience I had ever had with anything like that. And once again, it was so confusing. I loved my stepdad, you know, and there was a side to him that was also super great. And it took me a long time to go through and understand what happened with him. So to me, I guess the bruises didn't scare me as much just because I had experienced that situation. Once again, I had never experienced physical abuse myself, but I think seeing my mom experience that, go through the motions, and, I mean, he still was able to loop us back in. After all that, he did everything he could. He went to anger management. He did it, you know, everything my mom wanted him to do, and he followed it. Which, once again, comes across as green flags, comes across as someone trying to change and be better. So that's very much, looking back, how I saw that. You know, I was like, okay, like, he wants to change. He wants to do better. So I was gonna let him. I was like, you know, obviously, if anything like that ever happens again, I'm done. So we continue dating, and everything's fine. I mean, there's definitely a tension between us a little bit. Kind of. A little bit of a power dynamic now between us.

[Sarah]

And you're all living together at this point.

[Emily]

We're all living together at this point. So the pandemic had started, and we were just going into the first lockdown, and I wasn't working because I had worked customer service at a restaurant, so I was not working at all. I was getting the checks that we. Everyone was getting. So everything was okay. It was okay. I still very much so loved him, cared for him, thought I was seeing improvements. And then come June, I found out I was pregnant. It was very shocking. It was very much so not planned. I was actually on birth control. But at the time, once again, looking back in that period where everything was kind of okay. We're kind of recovering from this one circumstance. He had actively started making it a point to have us be experimenting with drugs and being under the influence more by drugs, I mean, like, more like psychedelics. Like, he always, like, he would text me and just be like, want to do acid tonight? And I was like, sure, yeah. Okay. And looking back now, that whole time period where everything felt a little more calm and collected, he. I. He was almost keeping me, like, sedated. Like, I was rarely ever sober. It was. I was always in a state where he could be, like. Like, could control the situation, and I wasn't really there to, like, be myself and speak my opinion. So obviously, once I found out I was pregnant, all of that stopped. Things got very, very real for us.

[Sarah]

What was his reaction to that?

[Emily]

He really didn't have one. I'm going. I'm going to get into his reaction a little bit. I'm probably going to have to backtrack to it again because once I was in therapy after the fact, after everything happened between us and we were separated, my therapist actually gave me, like, really good advice on how he reacted, so. But he really didn't have a reaction. He wasn't mad, but he wasn't happy. He just kind of was like, okay. So to me, I was just happy he wasn't mad. Like, I was just like, okay, it's just. It's good he's not mad. Like, it's good that he's supportive, I guess.

[Sarah]

Has it been since the car incident and all that stuff?

[Emily]

So at that point, it had been about five months.

[Sarah]

Okay, so in that five months, he didn't, like, touch you again? He wasn't okay, so he was fine.

[Emily]

No, I mean, there were fights. Yeah. But to me, I very much. It was only verbal, so I very much so. His. His aggression towards me verbally got a little out of hand sometimes.

[Sarah]

But he wasn't, like, putting his hands on you.

[Emily]

No.

[Sarah]

In that period.

[Emily]

No, he really wasn't. It's. It was. It was never to that degree again. I. I mean, there was intimidation, you know, like blocking doors, being really close to me. But no, his hand. Like, he hadn't touched me again since that. But also, I mean, intimidate me after that. Like, yeah, I'll. You're gonna shut down because, you know, they're capable of that.

[Sarah]

You're scared.

[Emily]

Yeah. So things were escalating in a way, but not in a. Not quick enough or extreme enough that I considered it to be abuse.

[Sarah]

Right. Where you're like, oh, okay, it's. It's happening again. I need to. I need to leave.

[Emily]

Yeah. So I found out I was pregnant. I immediately knew I was gonna keep her. And once again, he didn't really have a reaction. He was very neutral. And, yeah, I was just like, pretty much, do whatever you want. I'll be here, I guess. And I was like, okay, cool. Once again, just very happy. He wasn't mad. About two days later, I just get this bad feeling, and I'm just like, I have to look at his phone. I just have this bad feeling. Like, I. I don't know. I have a bad feeling. So looked at his phone. He had Tinder on his phone. Had been talking to other women. I found messages from this other gal that he had. I was, like, out of town a few weeks before, and he had actively just gone on a double date with his friends. So I had found out about him cheating on me about two days after I found out I was pregnant, which was obviously very difficult, not great timing, and very hard for me to just say f you and leave. So I confronted him about it. He kind of. He continuously gave me half truths until he figured out that I knew exactly what had happened. Because I ended up just contacting one of the women. She was super sweet, had no clue I existed, felt horrible, but she had told me everything. She was like, yeah, we went on like a full blown date the other night. Slept together. Yeah. I was like, okay, cool, well, I'm here and just found out I was pregnant, so. Okay, good information to have. So I confronted him about it. He tried his hardest to lie as much as he could, give me half truths, like I said. And eventually he admitted to it in his own way. So after that, we were plan. We were planning on moving in together. When all of that happened, like after we found out I was pregnant, I was like, okay, like, let's pick a place. We're obviously going to have a kid. We're going to be in each other's lives forever, like, and we're together right now, so why not live together? Because we're gonna have to raise a kid together. So I canceled moving in with him, which very much so upset him. I think it was embarrassing for him because he had told some people that we were gonna be moving in together. And, like, he wasn't upset that I had made the decision to not move in. He was upset about the fact that he was gonna have to explain to people why his pregnant girlfriend wasn't moving in anymore because it was embarrassing to him. And he obviously didn't want anyone to know that he had cheated or anything like that. So I was like, no, I can't do this. I'm pregnant. This is going to cause way too much stress. So I'm going to stay at my place and we'll just kind of see how things are going throughout the pregnancy. We'll just. I'm not going anywhere. So we'll. We'll see how things progress. And things did not progress well at all when I got pregnant was when he really, really started seeing me as an object and something he owned. And I really think that's when all of his fear of me ever leaving him, no matter what he did, left his body. He just. I think he just saw me as just this weak, pathetic person that he had complete control over now. And once again, still very upset about the fact that I wasn't moving in with him anymore. So he took that out on me by disappearing for hours at night or not getting home from work when he was supposed to. I recall very vividly an instance I want to, I want to say I was like six months pregnant at this point. And what I'm about to explain right now is kind of was the common theme for like how it looked on a day to day because after that first instance he had never, he never like punched me again. He never hit me like that again. But he did start choking me and suffocating me and like covering my mouth and my nose and holding me down. Like that was a lot more of a common occurrence, which I saw as a de escalation because it didn't hurt as bad, it didn't feel as violent, you know, and out of control. Which I'll get back to all that again later. But anyways, a circumstance I remember very, very vividly is I was about six months pregnant. He was working two jobs because not to mention while all this is going on, he's a super hard worker, like and I'm terrified financially. You know, I'm just turned 20, found out I was pregnant. The pandemic's going on. Like at this point I very much so also felt like I needed to be able to do any of this. So he's working two jobs and he's supposed to get home from his second job like early evening I want to say. Like he's supposed to be home around five or six. So I was at his apartment because we were gonna hang out and I was gonna stay there that night. And I was waiting and waiting and waiting. And he eventually gets home super late. Like he's home at like 11, like 10:30. 11. Just a ridiculous amount of hours. Like you can' that it took you long to close like that long the shop he was working at. So he got home and I'm immediately upset. I'm. I stand up, I am like where were you? What is going on? Because also at this point terrified of him cheating on me again, which I have no doubts in my mind, that's exactly what was happening. I later on found a lot more evidence that the cheating never stopped. This episode is brought to you by Liquid IV. When you hydrate with Liquid IV you're powered by Hydra Science. Hydra Science is Liquid IV's science backed formula with an optimized ratio of electrolytes, vitamins and nutrients. Experience great tasting hydration for mental clarity, physical endurance and overall well being. Sip into something that up levels every moment. Liquid IV tear pour live more Visit [e-mail] Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us we brought in a reverse auctioneer which is apparently a thing Mint Mobile unlimited premium wireless. 30. 30. Get 30. Get 20. 20. 20. Better get 20. 20. Everybody get 15. 15. 15. 15. Just 15 bucks a month. Sold. Give it a try. [e-mail] switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of network's busy. Taxes and fees extra see mint mobile.com so he got home and I was just like, where were you? What's going on? This is not okay. Especially with me being pregnant. And he just walked right up to me and grabbed my mouth and put me down on the couch and he just said. He just looked at me in the face and was like, you need to shut the fuck up and it's none of your business. And of course at that point I'm pregnant. I'm terrified of losing this child, given all the stress that's going on. Because like I said, while he wasn't being as physically abusive, that's kind of what our day to day was like at that point. Which to me I felt like it was a de escalation. Anything that happened after that original event I didn't see as bad until a certain point. So that was kind of the norm. He'd get upset with me and he just wanted me to shut up. He just, he didn't want to hear me. And there is one other form of abuse that I would like to touch on that was there throughout the whole relationship. It was. He was very, he had a very, very abnormally. I don't want to say abnormal because I. Not abnormal. But he had a very high sex drive. Very high. Like having sex multiple times a day. Like every single day with me come to find out with different women in the same day. Like just, it was, there was just like no end to it. And that was something while I was pregnant that got a lot worse. I expected it to get better because it got to the point like, you know, I'd wake up in the morning, it's like I knew I'd have to have sex with him right when I woke up. Like, it wasn't like I knew I had to. Like, I knew that would be the first thing he'd want to do and it would be a big deal if I didn't, like I was just to the point where I was just sitting there and just like being like please, like I just want it to be over soon. And that once again I had just never experienced something like that. So I didn't understand that to be abuse in any way or taking advantage of me in any way. It really didn't start becoming a big deal to me until I was pregnant. I was exhausted. I don't want to be having sex all the time. Like it's one of the last things on my mind. And it just, it didn't stop. It didn't stop. It didn't matter what was going on, how poorly I felt, how many times I told him I didn't want to. It just, it was non negotiable if I wanted him to be in a good mood and be happy. And so at that point our day to day is kind of looking like the instance I described. There's the whole other side going on with how much he's wanting to have sex and not really respecting my boundaries with that. And things just progressively got worse from there. He eventually, my older brother eventually moved out of our apartment and moved to a different city and he moved in with me. At that point I was just like, okay, like guess now's the time. And he moved in. When he moved in, once again I'd like to repeat, this is my apartment. I paid for it. It was all my stuff. It was already all set up. I had lived there for a year and the day he got there he, he rearranged everything. Like he was very controlling. Like I wasn't allowed to have any opinion on how things were set up anything like that. He just rearranged everything. Like my bedroom. He ended up, it was, it was a very interesting apartment. It was an older, older historic building. So it wasn't a basic setup. So he had like, he put where my bedroom was, he made that into like a living room and like our bed was where like our living room's supposed to be. Like just all, like just all this just completely flipped the apartment upside down and I just was not allowed to have a say in any of it. And at that point we had kind of started getting into this routine. He was still working really early mornings and I wasn't currently working. So we had gotten into this routine. He had to wake up super, super early for work. He had a construction job for a long time and I would have to get up every morning at 4:45 in the morning. Like rain or shine, sick or not. No matter how pregnant I was. And I had to make him his breakfast, make sure he had his lunch. And, like, if I did not do these things, my life was going to be hell. Like, it was gonna. He was gonna punish me for it. Like, if I did not do those things, he would come home. And, like, the instance I described, that was just pretty much how it was gonna be. He just. Like I said, once I got pregnant and my pregnancy progressed, the control he took over was crazy. It was so, so much control. I just had no control over my life anymore, Even to the point he would have friends over. And once again, there's just constant, constant fighting. Constant fighting. I constantly can't do exactly what he needs me to do. He's always upset about something, and if he's upset about something, it's going to come back on me somehow. So there was even a time his friends had all come over, and we were just sitting there. They were all playing games or something. And I made a joke. Like, I just spoke and I'm not kidding you, he looked me right in the face and he goes, why would you say that? That was so stupid. And, like, none of his friends, suddenly, they all just sat there and stared at me. And at this point, like, once again, my first kind of experience being treated like this in a relationship, even though it had been going on for what felt like forever, at that point, when I'm sitting in a room and no one else stands up or is like, hey, dude, like, you're being a dick. I'm just like, I guess that was a stupid thing to say. So I walked into the other room bawling my eyes out. And of course, that was an embarrassment to him. So he came in the room. I'm sitting there pregnant, crying, embarrassed, because apparently the joke I had just told was the stupidest joke ever. And he just comes in and I. Gosh, I remember him just pointing at me. Like, just his finger being, like, this close to my face, just being like, you need to stop fucking crying. You need to get up, pull your shit together, and get back in there with my friends and hang out with us. Like. And I just. At that point, I'm just so far gone and in survival mode. I just. I just felt like shutting down as a person. Like, I just. I just felt horrible about myself. I was really struggling because I kind of had that naive thought that I couldn't. Like, I couldn't believe what I was in because I so strongly felt like nothing like that would ever happen to me. Like, I'm not In this. This isn't what. Like, this situation is not what I think it is or feels like, because that just. It's not meant to happen in my life, which sounds, once again, so naive. So, I mean, unfortunately, no one has the privilege of not having bad things happen to them in their life. But I just. I genuinely, for some reason, could not believe it was happening to me. I couldn't. So I get through the rest of my pregnancy. It's not fun. Physically, I had a wonderful pregnancy, very healthy. But, you know, mentally, emotionally, it was the most drained I had ever been. And all. Meanwhile, all this is going on. I'm not talking to anyone about what's happening or the abuse that's happening or anything like that. I'm not speaking to anyone about it.

[Sarah]

You just kept it in completely?

[Emily]

Yeah. Yeah. I did not start talking to people about it until after I was separated from him. So get through the rest of my pregnancy. I am about five weeks away from my due date. He has to finish up getting his apartment ready for a new renter to come in, and he didn't want to do it. He had, like, he fully expected me to go in there and deep clean his whole entire apartment. Nine months pregnant or eight months pregnant, I guess. And so I did it. And, like, this apartment, it was old. It. Like, when I was cleaning it, I was like, oh, this is black molds that I'm actively cleaning right now, and I'm cleaning with bleach. Like, just getting it done, because I. I mean, once again, I just didn't want to be yelled at. Like, I. I was just like, okay, I'm gonna get this done. We're gonna get you all squared away, and then we're gonna have one less thing to worry about, and maybe we'll be a little less stressed, and it'll be fine. I. My water broke the next day. I still. I couldn't tell you for sure, but to this day, I don't think I would have given birth five weeks early if he wouldn't have made me go in there and clean that apartment the way I did. And with the chemicals I was around and how hard I was working my body, I just. I. My. There was no issues or signs of anything. And, I mean, it can happen. People give birth early. It's not unheard of. But it was just. It was the. It was hours after I had done that. And so the next morning, after cleaning his apartment, I woke up. I didn't feel good. Just had a bit of a tummy ache, and I couldn't tell. My water had broke, but it had partially broken. So I just told him he was getting ready to go to work, and I was like, hey, I think. I think something's off. I'm gonna go to the hospital just in case. And he, of course, doesn't offer to go. Nothing like that. So I was like, I'm gonna call my mom, and I'm gonna have my mom take me to the hospital, because I just. I. I think something's going on. So I go to the hospital, and I give birth to my beautiful daughter. She's amazing. And she has to, once again, Covid. So she's born five weeks early, and usually, like, she would have been able to come home within two days, but because of the pandemic and liability, they kept her in there till her due date. So she was in the NICU for five weeks, and it was. It was the worst five weeks of my life. The. I blamed. I very much so blamed myself. I remember the first time seeing her after she was born, because she was born, I could. I could barely touch her. I mean, she was just. She was on my chest for a second and then taken up to the nicu. So I pretty much lived at the hospital for five weeks. He would not come with me. If he did, I had to beg him. I remember the first time he met her, a nurse came up to me and told me he didn't want to hold her and that he, like, he. He was in there for, like, five minutes, and it was the first time he had ever seen her. Meanwhile, I lived at the hospital for five weeks practically just no help, no support. He was pretty much just off living his own life while I was in this just super depressed state, having to go to the hospital by myself day in and day out and just not get to come home with my daughter. And it was awful. And meanwhile, he's just skating with his friends, working, like, did not even affect him in any way, shape, or form. So that was honestly one of the more peaceful times because I just wasn't around him so much, and he, like, didn't have to be around me as much. But of course, it was always. It was very upsetting to him, like, that I wasn't there to do things for him. Like, he would give me a hard time for going to the NICU as much as I did. So we get through the five weeks, and I finally get to take her home. And I lived with him for about three months with my daughter until things got to the point that I had to leave so we were there. Everything I'm about to talk about is in about a three month timeline. So we get her home, we're, I'm just living life, taking care of a newborn. Once again, he's not super involved. The one thing he did make me do was my daughter and I were not allowed to sleep in the bed. We, I had to sleep in the room on a couch because he had to get up and go to work and he didn't want her disrupting his sleep or like me getting up and having to feed her to disrupt his sleep. So we had to sleep in our living room and he got the bed. So once again, just another example of just the complete and total control he had over my life. And it was the same like once she was out of the nicu, right back to the same routine. If I didn't get up on time to make him breakfast, if I didn't make his smoothie and make his lunch and make sure I was saying goodbye to him before he left, it was just hell. It was just the worst. He treated me so terribly and he never, he never watched her on his own, changed a diaper, offered to help, like, nothing like that. I really wasn't getting any help with her. The one time I asked him for some help, I just had to get in the shower because we were going to his parents house and I literally just needed to rinse off. So I just was like, just sit, you don't have to do anything, just be in the room with her. And the second I went to go get in the shower, she started crying. And I just, I remember being in the shower hearing her cry. And then I just remember seeing him from that because I kept the door open so I could hear everything and make sure everything was good. And he just came bolting out of the room that she was in without her. And he was just like, I just can't fucking do this. And so I jumped out of the shower, ran in there and he had just plopped her on the floor, like just was like, I can't do this. And like, didn't be like, hey, can you, can you help me? Like, I don't know how to handle this. Like, didn't make sure I was gonna go and take care of her. He just put her on the floor, a newborn, said I can't do this and walked out of the room. So that obviously caused a pretty big argument between us. And once again, at this point it's just, it's constant arguments, just constant, constant arguing. We're never not arguing. No matter how perfect I try and be at this point, but it's even worse if I'm not. So I still have to get through all of those things. Even though at this point, does it really matter? You know, but in my head, I always think back to that first instance, you know, and I'm like, it could be worse.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Emily]

You know, it could be worse. Things have gotten better. It's never gotten that bad again. So once again, going through the motions. Things really aren't that great. I'm not happy. I'm terrified. Just had a kid at 20 unexpectedly, and he could care less. Once again, luckily, I had my family supporting me. My family was amazing. My whole pregnancy and continues to be to this day.

[Sarah]

Question. Was there ever a point in this time that you just wanted to tell your family what was going on?

[Emily]

Absolutely.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Emily]

Absolutely. Yeah. I wanted to so badly.

[Sarah]

Do you think you didn't because you had hopes that it would just get better?

[Emily]

Absolutely. Yeah. I just. I knew even if it wasn't that high of a chance anymore, that it was going to get better. If I told them anything, then there was no chance of anything ever getting better. And at this point, once again, I have a kid, so. And I'm so young. I don't understand family law or, like, what custody looks like or anything like that. So I'm also now have this new fear of him taking her from me or me not having full access to her, you know, so now I'm just like, I'm just gonna do whatever I can to make sure I'm with my kid every single day.

[Sarah]

Deal with him.

[Emily]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, kind of just going through the motions, not getting along. Starting to very much so feel like a prisoner in my own home. Because at this point, I'm very isolated, too, like, because while I want to tell my family, I'm actively not speaking to them as much or hanging out with them as much, because what am I going to do or say if I do? Like, I had. There was nothing left in me. It was. So if anyone would have saw me in those months or, I mean, I had family see me, but if anyone would have, like, been close to me in those months, it would have been blatantly obvious what was going on. So it kind of all came to a head. This next instance is what made me leave and realize that I was not safe and my daughter was not safe. We were. I had just put our daughter in her crib. She had just started sleeping in her own room, and he was wanting to have sex. And it started off consensual. Like, I was like, okay, cool, whatever. And at some point, like, very early into. Was almost like. Like, his. It was like his eyes changed. Like, his eyes went, like, blank. Like, it's like this switch, like, flipped in his brain, and he started getting really aggressive. It started hurting, and I asked him to stop, and he didn't. And so I said it louder, and he didn't. And then I just started saying, no, no, no, no, no. And he put a pillow over my head and continued. And it got to the point that I. He was on top of me, that I, like, got. I was able to get one of my knees up, like, between our chests, you know, And I pushed him. Or like, yeah, pushed. Pushed him. I pushed him off of me. Because at that point, I had. I was screaming and it hurt bad. And I got up, I ran to the bathroom, and I just remember wiping, and just. This is a little extreme and hard to hear, but I just remember wiping. And there was just so much blood. I had to use one of the postpartum, like, pads you get after you give birth. And I was just sitting in the bathroom. I want to say I was in there for, like, 45 minutes, because my first thought when I saw the effect it had on my body and, like, how violent it actually was, my first. I wanted to call the cops. But then I immediately thought about how my daughter was in there. And the apartment we lived in had two locked doors. You have to get through in a staircase before you can. Like, before, like, I could have gotten to the front to, like, let cops in or anything like that. I just. I. I couldn't find a scenario where the cops would have been able to get there before he could hurt me or her. Because at that point in my brain, I just. It just clicked for me. I was like, oh, he'll do anything. Like, he'll. I don't know, like, he'll do anything. So I didn't call the cops, mainly because, once again, I just. I had no clue how I would get my daughter out of there safely or how it wouldn't escalate. And I walked back into the room after sitting in the bathroom for, like, 45 minutes. And he just looked up from the bed, and he looked at me, and he just said, I didn't stop because you said, no. I stopped because it didn't feel good for me anymore. And then he just turned around and went to sleep. And I just. I. I left the next day when.

[Sarah]

He was at work.

[Emily]

Yeah, I moved in with my dad. I just knew at that point, especially because he had suffocated me with a pillow at that time, too. I couldn't. I could barely breathe. Once he got, like. Once I got him off of me in the pillow, off my face, and I. It just, like, all finally came crashing down on me where I was like, I'm gonna get myself or my daughter hurt or killed. Like, I don't think we're gonna make. Like, I don't think we're gonna make it out of this if I continue to stay in this situation.

[Sarah]

Did you. Was there ever a time, just throughout this relationship that you had with him that you ever, like, try to have a conversation, like, what's going on? Like, why do you act this way? Like, did he ever, like, say anything about it or he just acted like it was nothing. Like, did he ever acknowledge it changed?

[Emily]

So in the beginning, there was acknowledgment. When things started going downhill, there was acknowledgment. There was a want for change and to be better. And like I said, when I got pregnant and my pregnancy got further along, he just, like, the care just stopped.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Emily]

Yeah. It just all went away. It all went away probably because to.

[Sarah]

Him, like you said, he realized, like, oh, I have her now. Like, she can't really go anywhere.

[Emily]

Yeah. Which I. I know, actually for a fact, because I asked him straight up one time, like, why did you keep doing all of those things? Why did you keep hurting me? Because also, along with all of this, like, during this whole timeline, he's still cheating on me the whole entire time.

[Sarah]

It's a control thing.

[Emily]

Yeah. And he just looked at me and he goes, honestly, after you had our daughter, I never thought you'd leave me. He was like, I never thought you'd actually do it. And to me, of course, that I was just like, you just genuinely. That's, like, how you saw me and how worthless I was to you.

[Sarah]

And it's sad, too. I think that it's really hard for us women, especially when you're young, to wrap your head around and understand when you experience that honeymoon phase, like, the really good stuff, you see the best side of someone. You have fun with them, you're falling in love with them. It's hard for us to accept and understand when things go south, I think, because we so bad. Like, we. We've seen the other good side of that person, and we're young, and we just want that back. We don't have. I don't think the understanding or the Strength or the power within ourselves to be like, screw you, I don't need you. I think that comes with age. Yeah, that comes with finding yourself. That comes with confidence. That comes with knowing so many other things. It's just there's so many factors with that. I think it, it would be impressive to me, very impressive to me if a young girl had that just off the bat. I just don't think that that comes very naturally. You know, you want to see the best in people. You're innocent, you want to, you want everything to be fine. And I think that when something doesn't start off bad, we cling to the good. Even if it was just for a week or a month or a few months.

[Emily]

When I think people who are also just naturally empathetic and care for others and also don't think the way people who can be abusive to that extreme or hurt people in those ways, it's for me personally the way I felt I couldn't even like wrap my brain around the fact that someone would be capable of that, let alone someone I know, someone I trust, someone who's in my life. Yeah, it wasn't, it just didn't seem real to me to a degree. I don't think, I don't think my brain would let me believe how bad it really was. I mean, and I'll get into it. Cuz the story of what happened is so hard to get through and be clear about. Just cuz it's so traumatic and so much stuff happened all at once every day. You know, I really didn't get a grasp on how abusive the relationship was and how in danger my life was until like last year.

[Sarah]

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[Emily]

It's something I've progressively tried to work on and understand for so long. And I think a lot of people experience that when they experience traumas is. I. I couldn't comprehend the reality of it for a long time, even once. I'm going to go back a little bit because like I said, there's some after part after we separated, because things still escalated and like now he is not involved in our daughter's life. There's very strict boundaries and rules there, and he honestly hasn't shown any real interest in wanting to be. Anyways.

[Sarah]

So when you left, when he found out that you left, how did he react to that?

[Emily]

He was obviously upset. I mean, he was mad. He was mad that I wasn't. He was mad that my parents knew. He was mad his little puppet was gone. Yeah. He was mad that he'd been found out.

[Sarah]

There wasn't somebody to make him miss smoothies.

[Emily]

Yeah, exactly. Fun fact. I. It took me about a year and a half be able to make smoothies again after that because I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

[Sarah]

You know, that's something that, you know, going back to what you said, I don't think we realize the effects that things like that have. And almost it does create a sense of PTSD for things like that. And I think that it's very easy to think, even for yourself to think, oh, like, I'm out of it now. Let's just move forward. But then we don't realize, like, the simplest things, like making a smoothie, because it reminds you or takes you back to that. It just like it can take you to a dark place within yourself.

[Emily]

Oh, yeah. And I would say the after effect of this relationship was so much more difficult to deal with than actively being in the relationship. Just the healing and things you have to try and understand about yourself and to kind of change that narrative. Because for so, so long, I took responsibility for a lot of the abuse that happened. I blamed myself in ways, tried to take blame off of him in a lot of ways. And it took me so long to rebuild the narrative as just, no, this is something that happened to me, not something I chose. I didn't choose for someone I cared about to treat me like that. It's something that happened. It's actually something my husband catches me on a lot, and he really, really has helped me change that narrative in my mind. Escaping all of the kind of blame you put on yourself, because it's really hard not to, especially if a child's involved. You know, it's really, really difficult not to blame yourself. So the last kind of incident, event I'm gonna go over happened while we were separated. I was living with my dad at this point. I'm still just trying to get him to see his daughter Once again raised by two amazing parents. It's very, it was very important to me that we figured out some way to co parent, to co parent, make it work, just anything, you know, because I mean, I've seen so many situations and I was just like, well, as long as he's not gonna hurt her, like, and I'm out of the situation, like, I'm sure he can still be a dad.

[Sarah]

Well, that's heartbreaking on its own too, to, you know, even if someone, Even if you're not good with someone in a relationship or they were bad to you or whatever else, it. I feel like it hurts as a mom for your kid to be like that. Their dad doesn't even want to be in their life.

[Emily]

It is. I'm not. That was. Honestly, it's one of the things that even coming on here today I struggled with because, I mean, by the time she's old enough, I'm sure it'll be buried deep in the Internet. But you know, there's gonna be a video out there where she, like, it's a part of her story and like this is happening when she's older. To her it's gonna be like that happened because my dad was that way and left me and my mom and I mean, yeah, it's heart, it's heartbreaking and my heart breaks for her. I. I can't relate to it. She's gonna experience a whole different part of life that I don't understand and never had to go through. Once again, I had the opposite. I have. I mean, my dad retired when I got pregnant so he could stay at home with her so I could work. I never had to put her in childcare, Nothing. I mean, he stepped up to the plate. So anyways, I was still kind of in that mode of, okay, we're gonna have to make this work. We have kid together and you're her dad. You deserve to be in her life and she deserves to have you in her life. And so he. I had moved into my dad's house and he was living in my apartment and was just going to stay there till the lease was up. I was like, you know, I didn't even. It wasn't worth the fight. I was like, I have a place to go. You can stay here till the lease is. Up and I'll bring our daughter by so you can see her. We can figure out this whole co parenting thing. So I went over there one afternoon and was trying to give him some space. You know, I let him know, like, if you. I can step into the kitchen and like make something or I don't have to be right here. I was really trying to give him a space. And he was just pace. I was sitting with our daughter and he was pacing back and forth in the hallway, mumbling under his breath just like curses. I think the little bit I got was he was, you know, once again, just kind of what he always goes back to calling me. He was just like, stupid bitch. Like, just mumbling all these things. And I just got up and I was like, okay. I was getting nervous. So I was like, you're not in a good place for us to visit. Like, I can come by a different day when you're feeling a little bit better. Because I'm like, we're not doing this. And he walked into the kitchen and I'm still in a separate room. I'm still in a living room with like a door frame for me to have to get out. It's not open concept by any means. So he goes into the kitchen, he comes back and he has a knife to his throat. And he just starts yelling he's gonna take his own life. He doesn't wanna live like this. He doesn't. He just doesn't want what's going on. And my only thought was that knife is gonna turn on me before he ever hurts himself.

[Sarah]

So you never know what people are gonna do.

[Emily]

You never do. I mean. And he was serious. He had pressed it to himself so hard. He was bleeding, like. And our daughter's right there exactly as well.

[Sarah]

You don't know what he could do.

[Emily]

To you or her. All three, you know, you don't exactly. So I call my dad because once again, I had never called the police in my life. I just calling the police just isn't an automatic thing when you're dealing with someone you know and care about. It's just not. It just was never the first thing. Like I said. Probably the only time I wanted. I was like, I need to call the police was after he raped me. And I called my dad and I had our daughter in my arm and I just called my dad. I was like, I don't know what to do. He's freaking out, like, what do I do? And he had at this point walked into our room and he heard me on the phone. And he came. He came in super quick and aggressive, and he grabbed our daughter out of my arms and started saying he was going to take her to his parents, which just side note, it's not super relevant. I do not trust his family. His family has a lot of just not quality characters. You didn't trust him? Yeah, that I just don't trust around my child. So he was. He had our daughter. He was threatening to take her to his parents. He was trying to get out of the front door, and I put myself in front of him and I was just like, okay, like, here we go. Like, I'm. I'm not moving. And my dad's on the phone. He's like, you need to hang up and call the police. You need to hang up and call the police. And I think he heard him saying that, and he smacked the phone out of my hand and it hung up on my dad. And my dad lived like 20 minutes away from the area we were in. So he called the police just because he. He was like, I can't get there quick enough. And he had no clue what had happened. All he knows is he was yelling and then the phone hung up and he was trying to take our daughter. So he called the police. And my par. My ex partner ran out of the house because I think he kind of assumed my dad was going to call the police after that happened. So he, like, kind of almost tossed my daughter to me and ran out of the house. Just booked it. And I, at this point, I'm bawling and I go out to my car because I don't want to. I don't know when he's coming back. I don't know what's going to happen. The police never showed up. They called me and asked if I was okay.

[Sarah]

They never came.

[Emily]

So they did eventually, after they called me, told me to get to a safe place.

[Sarah]

So this is why people don't call the police.

[Emily]

Thank you. It was really. This kind of led into a lot of my decision making that I later regretted. So he calls me, tells me to get to a safe place and says, like, they'll be there to talk to me. So I drove with my daughter to my mom's because she lived, like, literally three minutes away from where we were. So I drove to my mom's, and eventually the cop gets there and told him what happened. And he just asked me. He was like, well, do you have a parenting plan in place? I was like, no, I haven't gone to the courts or anything. This is all kind of Recent. And he was. He just looked at me and he was like, well, if you don't have a parenting plan in place, he has just as many rights to that child as you do. And I was, I was like, so, like, it doesn't matter that he was just putting our lives at risk, like himself at risk, anything like that. And I mean, this co. This cop could. He just couldn't have cared less. He. He seemed very irritated. He was there. So that was upsetting and very invalidating. Made me feel like total crap and nervous to proceed with anything else. So about five hours later, because according to him, which I do believe it to be true, they have to. Or at least where I live, they have to put certain criteria. There are certain criteria that, like, they have to have to arrest someone. So he had to put all of what happened into a system and see if it fit the criteria for him to go arrest him. Which it ended up fitting the criteria. So about five hours later, he arrested him.

[Sarah]

Don't you think that should be memorized? Like, let me put it in.

[Emily]

Like, I'm just confused.

[Sarah]

How do you not know, like, off the top of your head, this is enough or this isn't? Yeah, I don't.

[Emily]

The whole interaction was very mind blowing to me. I was only.

[Sarah]

I think in a situation like that, it depends on who you get.

[Emily]

It does. It absolutely does. There are some officers out there and law enforcement that will be right there and take amazing care of you. I mean, I know some of them. My uncle's a sheriff. Like, there are some officers that are absolutely amazing and will help you. And I just. I just. Bad luck. Just didn't get one.

[Sarah]

So he puts it in the system.

[Emily]

So he puts it in the system. He's in the green.

[Sarah]

Green. Check to go.

[Emily]

Yeah. Arrest him about five hours later. And to me, that also blows my mind because it's just like, you have no clue what he could have done. He could have figured out where I was and hurt me. Like he. You have no. Or hurt himself. Like, you have no idea what he could have done in those five hours. Like, that is so much time.

[Sarah]

It just wasn't taken seriously. I don't feel like.

[Emily]

No, not at all. Which once again, very much so leads into how I handled the situation from there on. So he gets arrested. I'm a wreck emotionally because even though I knew he needed to be arrested, I knew he needed to be held accountable. I said, still, this is the father of my child. This is someone that I love still and care about. And still having so many confusing feelings. I mean, I was. I was just heartbroken. I had gotten to that point, just absolutely devastated. And of course, there was still part of me that felt bad for him. And I had the opportunity to press charges, and I could. I couldn't bring myself to do it. I. I had. I got, like, a form, you know, asking, do you want to press charges? And at the end of the form, it has this little comment section being like, is there anything we should know or you want us to know? And once again, just being young, knowing nothing about the law or pressing charges or anything, I was like, okay, well, I'll just write in this comment section like, he's not mentally well, he needs help, and he's going to end up hurting someone. So I don't want to press charges, but he needs help is pretty much what I wrote down, thinking that, you know, was going to matter, which it didn't, because I didn't press charges. You know, they. They don't care because I didn't press charges. So, yeah, couldn't bring myself to do it. I also was terrified. I. It took so long to arrest him. In my head, I'm thinking so irrationally that I'm like, the second I press charges, he's gonna know about it, and he's gonna kill me. Like, they're not even gonna be able to get him in time. Like, I don't want him to know that I press charges. Like, he's not gonna go to prison forever for this. Like, that's just gonna put me in even more danger if I do that. So I didn't. Pretty much. My dad had me break contact. He was. He was kind of my saving grace in a lot of ways. He pretty much just kept me at his house for a month, like a safe house. He told me, like, I don't want you looking for a job until a certain amount of time has passed. I don't want you leaving this house. I pretty much was not allowed to go anywhere for, like, a month for good reason, because, I mean, my poor dad was just terrified, not only for my sake, but his granddaughters. And things eventually kind of evened out. He. After that point, all together, up to, like, current time, he's probably only seen her five times, tops, so. And most of that was, like, in the very beginning months of us being separated, because after that, he only was able to communicate with my dad if he wanted to see our daughter. And he was allowed to come to my dad's house and visit her, which I think he did once. But Never did that again. And, you know, I just try. Kind of like you touched on earlier. I just tried to start moving on. I was out of it. I was accepting that I wasn't going to be with him anymore. I had a baby to raise. I needed to get my life together, get a job, and I just wanted to start living my life again. So I tried really hard to just move on from it at that point, while having to deal with him in the capacity I had to, which really wasn't a lot. And for a while, a couple months, I'd say it was. It felt like coming off of a drug, if I had to compare it to anything. I mean, I would feel like I couldn't breathe if I didn't know, like, where he was, what he was doing. I just. It took me a long time to accept that it was done and we weren't gonna figure it out. We weren't gonna raise a kid together. So things after that, I. I really didn't. Didn't have to deal with him that much. I really, really did not. And I eventually reconnected with my husband. Now, we've known each other since we were 15. Just were best friends for years and years and years, so we reconnected. I was kind of trying to build my life back up together while not dealing with anything that had happened. And then I want to say, about a year later, I got a message from someone asking if I could write a victim statement for them because he had hurt someone again and she was pressing charges. And. And she did. She. I won't touch on it too much because it's her story and her situation she had to go through, but she. She was, like, the first person to make me realize what happened to me was real and, like, it wasn't just in my head or I wasn't as responsible as I thought I was for what had happened.

[Sarah]

And I think, too, that it was actually bad.

[Emily]

Yeah, that it was actually. I mean, she. She gave me so much strength by doing what she did. I not only was beyond proud. This guy was younger than me, smaller. I mean, just in every way. I was just amazed. I was amazed by her strength. I was amazed by her determination to do what was right.

[Sarah]

So did she reach out to you because she knew that you and him had had issues in the past?

[Emily]

So I don't know exactly what she knew had happened, but I had found out from her that he was using our daughter almost as a tool or like an excuse to kind of keep her with him. He had created this whole Narrative that if he had her, he could get his stuff together and start taking care of our daughter more and she could be involved. Like she had told me at one point when she was having hard times, she would go into his phone and look at pictures of her, our daughter, to help. I mean, to. To keep her strong, to keep her focused on why she was there, you know? And, I mean, that broke my heart that he would be using our child like that, because, I mean, I told her. I was like, well, there's nothing you could have done, because I'm never letting him near her. So that was really the first instance I had let it hit me how much it was actively still affecting me, because at this point, I had kind of just accepted, like, I was having nightmares to the point where I just wouldn't sleep anymore. I was struggling with a lot of intimacy issues with my partner, just from all of the damaging things that happened with him sexually. It was so difficult for me to feel any sense of normalcy when it came to that. And so going through that process with her really made me wake up and kind of be like, okay, like, I need to deal with this. I need to figure out what's going on. Because it had completely taken over my life without me even noticing it. And I think a lot of that comes back into the embarrassment, the shamefulness of it, and how much I blamed myself, that I wouldn't even let myself have a feeling about it or let myself think that I was hurt or a victim or survivor in any way for a long time. I just read it as getting out of a toxic relationship. You know, like it was something we both put into. We both, you know, made it into that mess. And it was also hard because it was the first time I realized he never really loved me and that this is just his pattern and how he treats people and how he always will. And it also terrified me. And it still terrifies me to this day. I mean, I just. I wait for the call that someone is severely injured, dead because of him. So after that, I got into therapy for a while, found an amazing therapist. My husband was so supportive. He. I mean, held my hand the whole way and was there with me. He wanted to understand the situation, understand what I had been through. That's kind of the setting where he really learned everything that had happened and the depth behind what had happened and kind of the severity of it. And my therapist, I mean, she's. She's amazing. If there's one thing I can say or make a point of in this whole Episode is if you can find an amazing therapist that you feel comfortable with. Keep going. Don't ever stop, no matter what. You don't have to have something wrong with you to go to therapy. It. It's just good to do for anyone, no matter what you've been through. And she really, really opened my eyes to how abusive the situation was. I remember telling her about how much he would choke me and suffocate me. And I remember her asking me why I thought it was a de escalation. And I was like, well, it doesn't hurt as bad as getting punched. Like, it doesn't feel as out of control and aggressive. And what she had explained to me, she was like, well, even though it doesn't hurt as much, it doesn't feel as aggressive. She said, it's actually a major escalation because the intention's different. The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu Jack WelchMBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and has many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia. Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts behind it. When you're hitting someone and you're out of control like that, your intention is to hurt them. You know, you're kind of losing your mind. She was like, but when someone suffocates you, chokes you, even if it's for two seconds, their intention is for you to not breathe. And I never viewed it like that because I remember telling her, and she just looked at me like she saw a ghost. Because she was like, you should be happy you're here. Because she asked me how many times it happened and, like, how long it would go on for. And, I mean, it was a lot. There were plenty of times that I felt like I wasn't gonna Breathe again. But once again, didn't see it as an escalation from hitting. I saw it as a de escalation. And I can't speak for others, but I'm sure there's someone else out there that could feel the same way. And it is an escalation. It is bringing you closer to danger. And it does not mean things are getting better. It's getting worse. And yeah, just after seeing her for a while, I'm not currently seeing her. I would like to again, because she's sweet and amazing, but after seeing her for a while, it just really, really, really opened my eyes in so many different ways. It made me be able to let go of so much shame and being able to actually, I remember just sitting down and talking to her about it my first session, and the amount of relief I felt, not even coming to any conclusions or solving anything, but just being able to. To sit down and say, this is what happened to me. I was able to take so much of my power back, just being able to admit it and not be so ashamed of it and trying to hide it from people. And after that, I mean, I still struggle with it. I still have hard days and days where I just want to cry because I can't believe it happened. I can't believe my daughter, that it has to be a part of my daughter's story. But altogether, I learned that being able to talk about it freely and openly made it so I could start trusting people again and feeling safe around people again.

[Sarah]

I think too, by being vocal and opening up it, especially with your now husband, it makes it feel like everything's just out on the table, you know, like there is no part of you that's hidden or that you're ashamed of. Like it. It happened, it's real. And that that's. It's a part of your story, it's not a part of who you are.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And also something else that I want to mention, which I'm sure a lot of people can relate to, and that people know in general, even if it's not abuse involved, but it's just somebody being toxic and not, you know, you just know somebody's not right for you. I don't think they're. I think when it comes to feelings and love, especially when you are younger, it's very easy to make excuses and it's hard for people to be alone. It takes, like I was saying before, it takes a level of comfort within yourself and knowing who you are, knowing what you want, which comes, like I said, with age. And experience. So not only is it difficult to leave a toxic relationship or situation like that, the aftermath, like you mentioned, is just as hard, if not harder in some ways. And I think that that's something that, you know, a lot of people might stay in some. In something longer than they should because they don't feel like dealing with that and going through that. And a lot of people don't want to be alone, you know, because that's scary, too, in a different way. So I think that it was important that you mentioned that the aftermath was hard, too, because then you're kind of reflecting on everything. It's almost like you have to deal with it all head on, which you didn't have to do. Like, when you're in it, you're dealing with it with that person, and it's horrible, and it sucks. But then it's after that that you really have to sit and reflect. And it just. It's like this whole other can of worms that's opening of emotions and realizations, and that's heartbreaking on its own as well. And I think a lot of people don't want to face that and don't want to deal with it. They don't want to be alone. They don't want to have to figure out what that kind of strength looks like. But I feel like your story is a perfect example of why it's worth it to get through that, because not only do you realize all of those things, but there's so much better on the other side, you know, better for you, better for your daughter and in general, for life. You know, you were able to find love again and in such a healthier, happier way.

[Emily]

Yeah, well, and I also. I think it's so important to go through that work just to be able to redirect the narrative within yourself from being a victim to. I see myself now as a survivor. Like, I survived something, I went through that, and I got out the other end.

[Sarah]

And it does give that power back.

[Emily]

Rather than feeling like, ugh, this is just something. Something that happened to me. I'm so, you know, weak, and I can't believe I let myself do that. And seriously, just being able to talk about it and own it takes away so much of that. And it makes you really sit down and see things for how they were, even though it is so painful to put yourself back in that situation and really recognize, like, this happened to me, like, that happened. That sucked, but I survived it. You don't have to forever be a victim of it or ashamed of it. Which is one thing with just some people I know who have been through similar experiences. There's just so much shame, so much shame. And that's what they build into you too. You know, no one's ever gonna love you. No one's ever gonna want to be with you, with you after all this. Like, I, you know, it's instilled in you, in those kind of relationships as well, to break you down and for you to have nothing of yourself left by the end of it. And personally, for me, the only way. And I still am actively working on it all the time, but I was able to start seeing, like, myself again as a separate person from that situation after facing it head on.

[Sarah]

And something else I want to mention is the aspect that if one day your daughter ever did see this video, while, yes, there's the side of it that it's unfortunate that, you know, some of us are dealt parents like that, you know, and that. That he has to be kind of like that part of her life in that way. But I think that by you making this video, in my opinion, it shows so much strength, you know, for you and as her mom, and how you kind of mentioned, like, you didn't have any understanding that of those kind of relationships and right and wrong and something like that. And it was very easy to make excuses because I think when you, when you do grow up where things are good and you have a good childhood, we're not, we're not really taught about those kind of things or the red flags or.

[Emily]

And when you are taught about it, you're kind of taught that people who experience it are the only people who will go through it. Like.

[Sarah]

Well, I think we're also taught this. Like, there is no in between. We're taught it's either really good or really bad. There's no in between of understanding this is just as bad or this is, you know, such a.

[Emily]

Such abuse is such a spectrum.

[Sarah]

Yeah, it really is.

[Emily]

And I think, yeah, it can affect people in all different ways and all the same ways all at once.

[Sarah]

Exactly. And I just think that you should be very proud of yourself for coming on here because I think that, you know, in just my. Like I said, in my opinion, I feel like it's such a testimony to your strength that you're able to speak out about it because it's going to help so many other women and men. You know, there's, there's. It's so informative and educational because there are so many people daily who make excuses for their partner. You know, there's so many people that this is their norm. They might not know anything other than that. And, you know, luckily, in your situation, you did have a supportive, good family, but there's people that don't have that, so they kind of feel stuck. They're like, this is all I have. This is all I know. Like, what is the alternative? Like, they might be financially dependent and reliant on a horrible person, but that's why I feel like, you know, I always tell people you can't speak out about something enough, you know, and the more people that speak out, the more these, you know, conversations happen. And for a lot of people, these are uncomfortable conversations. These aren't things that people want to talk about because of the shame that's around it. But, you know, I kind of look at it like how you said that one girl that came out, that it kind of gave you this realization of her strength in the situation. It's like, that's kind of what your story will do for people that are listening, even though it's not directly related to the same person or the same situation. You're giving so many people strength. Like, you're. I always think of it when somebody comes on this podcast and shares their story, they become a voice for so many people that have felt the same things, but maybe they're not ready to come out and talk about it yet. Maybe they're not ready to share it, but if it makes them feel less alone, if it makes them take a step in the right direction for them in their life, you did something huge.

[Emily]

Absolutely.

[Sarah]

So you should remember that.

[Emily]

Thank you so much. Thank you.