Loading summary
Transcript391 lines
- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Big smiles, rocking tunes and epic drinks. Dutch Bros. Is all about you. Choose from a variety of customizable handcrafted.
- [00:12]
B
Beverages like our Rebel Energy drinks, coffees, teas and more. Download the Dutch Bros app for a.
- [00:18]
A
Free medium drink plus find your nearest shop, order ahead and start earning rewards.
- [00:23]
B
Offer valid for new app users only. Free medium drink Reward upon registration.
- [00:27]
A
14 day expiration terms apply.
- [00:28]
B
See Dutchbros.com the sounds of the season can often sound like this. So when are we getting some grandkids? But with Hilton's season to stay sale, they could sound a bit more like this or this Stay and save up to 20% off when you book before January 5th at Hilton.com Hilton for the stay minimum two night stay required. Excludes luxury and all inclusive properties. Terms and conditions apply. My name is Paul Calvo. I'm originally from Fresno, California, but I'm currently living at the campus of Stanford University, or I should say on the campus of Stanford. And today I just want to, you know, kind of go over some, go over some things. I have been thinking a lot about today just because I don't want to sit here and like glorify my prison life, my gang life. I'm originally from Fresno, California, part of a very, the biggest gang there, it's called the Fresno Bulldogs. And I feel like my rough childhood, which I'll start with that and then kind of trickle into how that shaped my teenage years, which then led to prison. You know, I'm glad you're giving me free rein on speaking because I just feel like those that can benefit the most from this won't be active gang members that are still involved in that. Because I remember when I was like 16, 17, even in my early 20s, if you had someone like try to speak to me about changing my life, I would have been like, yeah, you're, you're tripping, you know, like, leave me alone. So I want to highlight how someone can go from the gang life to prison and how they can use those same skills, but on the other side with education and, and networking and finding a job and, and just making something out of your life. Like I said, my, my childhood was very rough. My childhood was very rough. My dad, he's from Mexico. My mom, she's her, her dad's from Mexico as well. But she was, she was born here. She's, you know, first generation on her side. But my dad was that typical traditional Mexican man, you know, where you don't cry, you beat the weakness out of Your son, right. Like, it's very. Like, you just show no emotion. And so growing up, I want to say maybe around five or six, he. He and his friends, whenever they would get together and they would start drinking, they would make us fight. You know, me in the, you know, sons of my dad's friends. And so one. There's. There was one particular time that, you know, my dad and his friends made us do this, like, almost like little miniature gladiators, you know, And. And the kid that I would fight was, I don't know, maybe about eight or so. He was about two or three years older than me. And I ended up losing the fight. I lost every single fight, you know, because I just didn't know what I was doing.
- [03:34]
A
Were you ever scared when they would make you fight or it was kind of just okay?
- [03:37]
B
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
- [03:39]
A
So it wasn't something that you found, like, fun?
- [03:40]
B
No, I. I would hate it. I would hate it. And I knew, too, because at the time I would work with my dad, so we either worked in the fields or we would work, you know, painting houses. And I. I always knew when we would go to his house because there was a liquor store around the corner from his buddy's house, and I knew if we hit that liquor store, we were going to go to his friend's house right afterwards. Right. And, you know, at that time, my dad was. Was a heavy alcoholic. Like, he drank every day, and. And surprisingly, he would wake up at five in the morning every day to go to work.
- [04:19]
A
Impressive.
- [04:19]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the, the. The Mexican in him, I guess. And so I knew every time, and I knew, okay, we were. I was going to have to fight. And so I hated it. Like, it just, you know, I was super anxious. I would. I would get knots in my stomach, right? I just didn't like it because I knew I would get beat up. And this one particular night, my dad, you know, we're out there and. And I can already hear them drinking and talking about, oh, my son this, my son that. And so I knew. I was like, oh, it's just a matter of time before we have to fight. And so they end up making us fight. I end up losing, like, always. And. And my dad gets pissed. So I'm thinking, like, he picks me up and he just starts dragging me. Like, not dragging me literally, but, like, he's holding me by the collar, and I'm, like, walking with him, but I'm expecting him to, like, hit me or do something, right? To, like. I don't know, to show me that he's upset that I lost, but instead he calls me Maron. Right. And that's. That's basically Spanish for, you know, like I said, he was that old school Mexican. You know, your son has to be tough at all times, right. Doesn't matter how old he is. And so that night, you know, then he, after, as he's taking me to the truck, you know, he locks me inside the truck and I just stay there all night until it's time to go home. And I remember just being like. Like I would welcomed. I would have welcomed the, like a hit or something, you know, something. Something physical from him.
- [05:52]
A
Right.
- [05:53]
B
Versus him calling me Marikon, you know, uh, and. And I feel like that was a pivotal moment in my childhood because then from there it was always like. It was always me turning into like this vengeful, rageful little kid whenever there was like an altercation or anything that I thought was going to lead to an altercation with another person.
- [06:18]
A
Yeah.
- [06:18]
B
And so elementary school, I got into a lot of fights, which isn't surprising. Right.
- [06:25]
A
And if your parents found out about the. You getting into fights in school, would you get in trouble for that or was it not like that?
- [06:32]
B
So. No, no, because I've. I found a. I found a loophole. Like I said, my. My dad was from. From Mexico. He. He didn't speak any English at the time. And so I either had to say, you know, well, dad, this kid was making, you know, disrespecting mom.
- [06:52]
A
Right.
- [06:53]
B
Or I had to say that the kid called me like a beaner or a wetback or something racist. And then it was like, oh, okay. Whether it was. Whether it happened or not, it didn't matter. That was the excuse. So as long as I said that, you know, it. You know, all was. Was well. And there was. There was a moment too, where like, even my dad was kind of like. Because I. I got into quite a few fights in elementary school, and it. Even my dad was kind of like, dang, there must be like a lot of racist kids at that school. But there really wasn't. I just, you know, like I said, I was just using it as an excuse. So another effect that had on me with my dad, it made me very, like, it made me very competitive in a way where I couldn't really do anything for fun. Like, it always. I always had to do. There always had to be something on the line, you know, and I was. I did well in sports, cross country, track and field, and, and soccer. Those were my. My My three areas that I track and field was really like, you know, 800 meter, 400. It wasn't, you know, anything like long jump or. It was mainly just, you know, the. The running aspect and then also the soccer. And I did really well in sports. Really well. And. And it was because I always had that. That drive. You know, I know it was a, like, a very negative and toxic way to, like, teach me that or, you know, have that implemented in my life. But I. I do see how it kind of served me some good later on in life. And so I feel like it, like.
- [08:31]
A
Pushed you to prove yourself.
- [08:33]
B
Yeah, yeah. In all aspects. In all aspects. Because then when I finally landed in juvenile hall because of fighting and violence, it's actually funny because this whole time leading up to, you know, juvenile hall, I wasn't part of a gang. I wasn't rolling around with anybody. I just was this kid with a very bad temper who did soccer and cross country and all that. Right. And so I'm now 14. And it's now no longer, you know, oh, you're suspended for two days, three days. It's now, okay, you're going to juvenile hall. And because this was like the very early 2000s, it was like 2001, where in Fresno, it was pretty much like, if you get into a fight and it's pretty bad, then juvenile hall and then juvenile hall. From there, I got into. Unsurprisingly, I got into some fights in juvenile hall, but it was because the gang members would call me white boy. Because about two years before going to juvenile hall, my parents. Or no more than two years. About. About four or five years before this, they moved to Clovis, which is right outside of Fresno, and it's predominantly a white town. Well, it was at that time, and. And then from there, they moved out to, like, the country outskirt area. I mean, now it's, you know, they're all, you know, it's a bunch of neighborhoods. But at the time, it was the country between, like, Clovis and Fresno. And so we were living out there. But because of that, the other Hispanic gang members would just be like, oh, you're a white boy. You're white. When I'm, like, surprised, because I'm like, you guys don't even speak Spanish, right? I speak Spanish. My dad's from Mexico, and you guys, you know, call me a white boy. And so that would always lead to fights because I just. I didn't like that. And. And this is where I feel like it's. It's Somewhere where I can draw back to and point at this exact moment and say, that is the beginning of this career basically in, in the gang life. Because it turned, it turned from them saying, oh, white boy this, you know that. Because I, I, the few fights I got into, I, I won, you know, I did well. And it turned into, hey, when we get out, let's kick it, let's start rolling around, let's, you know, hit the streets together. And so that's what happened.
- [10:59]
A
And how long were you in there for?
- [11:00]
B
That time was about six months. Okay, almost. Yeah, almost a year.
- [11:04]
A
When you would get in these fights, would they extend your time there?
- [11:07]
B
No, no, no. Cuz I mean there would be. So sometimes the, the guards, they didn't really care.
- [11:14]
A
Yeah.
- [11:14]
B
They were just like, okay, whatever. You know, like there would be like little they called, like they were called like honor sales. Cuz at this time I was still going to open dorm.
- [11:21]
A
Okay.
- [11:21]
B
Unit. It wasn't on. It wasn't until I returned that I would go to lockdown. And so we would just go into these on like what they were called, honor cells. And we would fight, you know, 32nd fight, whatever, a minute fight. And then, okay, whatever, we were done. I mean, we weren't like broken noses, shattered jaws, you know, we were just kind of like lumped up, you know, nothing too crazy. But that led to then getting out and hanging out with these guys. And that was like, what started all this because then from there I felt more accepted there, I felt more loved. I felt like I valued, I was valued more there.
- [12:03]
A
And they say like with the gangs and stuff, it almost forms that sense of community.
- [12:06]
B
Yeah.
- [12:07]
A
Like you have a group of people that I feel like you feel like have your back no matter what.
- [12:13]
B
Yeah. And if, I mean, well, you guys don't know the, the guys I was locked up with, but if I look back and focus on their lives, that they had the same thing, you know, they, they, you know, one of them, his dad, you know, took him to go do his first drive by at 12. You know, it's like, how much hope can we really have for a kid whose dad is taking him to go do a drive by at 12 years old? Right. And so like, we were all like coming from these very dysfunctional families and, and we just, you know, bonded together. And that was like where one of us went, we all went. Like, that's just how we were. And again, that turned into, you know, more crime. Kind of like upping the ante, if you will.
- [12:58]
A
Yeah.
- [12:58]
B
Because one of us Would do something. And I was like, oh, what? You know, like, you know, now. Now, you know from, you know, just robbing someone and, like, you know, maybe jumping on them and, like, taking their purse or something. Now it's like, at gunpoint or something, you know, like, it just kept escalating.
- [13:15]
A
And so did you guys form your own gang or did you enter a gang?
- [13:19]
B
Yes. So. So we were just all from the east side of Fresno, so. So Fresno has, like, first. There is, like, not one. Like, we don't have, like, this shot collar that runs, like, we just run wild. Right? That's kind of like what we're known for. Our motto is, is pretty much like, you can't tell me what to do.
- [13:37]
A
Okay.
- [13:38]
B
And so Fresno has various parts of. So it's like. It's kind of like an umbrella. So, like, you'll have the east side, and then you'll have, like, all the different sets and neighborhoods that fall under that. And then same with the north side and then the west side. Right. And then. Yep. Parkside and couple other.
- [13:57]
A
And then. Were there certain things that you had to do to kind of, like, prove yourself?
- [14:02]
B
Yeah. Oh, yeah. But that kind of just came with, you know, the fighting in juvenile hall.
- [14:07]
A
Okay.
- [14:08]
B
Getting out, hanging out with them. And then it turned into just, like, if we saw, you know, someone that we thought was an enemy, we would get them. And at this time, it was just, like, fighting. It wasn't anything crazy. It wasn't. It wasn't, you know, us trying to stab someone or shoot someone. It was just. We were just a bunch of knucklehead kids running around, you know, starting trouble. Starting trouble. It wasn't until the first time I got shot at that I was like, okay, I'm done fighting. And it's. Now I'm gonna pick up a gun. And that's the second most like, crucial or pivotal moment of my teenage years. Because at that time, I could have literally said, you know what? This isn't for me. Like, I just got shot at, you know, and the bullets were really freaking close. I don't know how they didn't get me. I don't know how they. I don't know what it was, but, you know, I could have just said, hey, I'm done with this. This. This has actually turned out to be something I'm not into. Right? Like, I almost got killed. And the other option could have been like, well, now I'm going to retaliate. I'm gonna come back stronger. I'm now gonna change from fighting to carrying a gun. And that's ultimately what I did. And that's why.
- [15:27]
A
How old were you?
- [15:28]
B
I was 17.
- [15:29]
A
Okay.
- [15:30]
B
I was 17. And so that then turned into basically honestly selling drugs to get, then I was getting guns from out of state and doing deals with meth to get more guns than I would if I paid cash. And so I now have access to guns. And that's when I catch my very first big case because I got caught with an AK47 and I end up doing a year. I was, I was 17. I turned 18 in there. 18. And because I was a juvenile, I feel like that's what helped me not get as much time because I think like, the max time for that was like three years or something. And so I do a year and I get out and immediately again, I could have turned away. I could have just said, I'm good. Right. But I didn't. I continued. And when I think about it, I feel like I did it because I was, I don't wanna say I was good at it. Right. Cause if I was, I wouldn't get caught. But I enjoyed that respect, or what I thought was respect. I enjoyed everything that came with it. Right. When you start to, like, make this name for yourself in the streets, certain, you get certain incentives. And I enjoyed it. And it was something that I felt like, was fulfilling, even though it was horrible because, you know, I was out committing crimes and hurting people. But in a way, it was a way for me to kind of climb this, like, totem pole. And also, too, I, I still had that ambition. I was still very driven. I just was doing it for all the wrong reasons and doing it in the wrong, you know, arena.
- [17:18]
A
And how was your relationship with your parents? Like, kind of going in and out of jail at this point.
- [17:23]
B
And, you know, they, they were kind of like, okay, this is what you want to do, right? You know, put your, put your, your big boy chonies on. Because this is, this is, you know, not, you're not gonna, you know, this is, I mean, if you don't mind it, then. Oh, well, you know, like. But you're not gonna, you're not gonna enjoy this after a while.
- [17:41]
A
Yeah. Did you ever get into any drugs at that time?
- [17:44]
B
Yeah, you know, I use drugs more for, like, partying.
- [17:48]
A
Right.
- [17:49]
B
You know, I, it wasn't, that wasn't really my high. My high was doing crazy stuff, you know, running around and just, just. Yeah, I mean, like, the violence. Yeah, that was more of my, that was more of my get down. I, I, I enjoyed That I didn't have to be high to do this stuff. I didn't have to be drunk at the time. I wasn't really even, like, a heavy drinker. I did do some drugs, but it wasn't like I was every day chasing dope, chasing heroin.
- [18:18]
A
Yeah. It was more so like selling them so they could get the guns.
- [18:21]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, that's. That was my. My thing. As a matter of fact, you know how you. You asked about my. My parents leading up to getting caught with the ak? My dad one time came in and I had a shotgun, and I had. It was a. It was a Remington, and I bought a pistol grip for the pump and a pistol grip for. For the handle and had sawed it off and. And I was painting it all black, and he walked in on me, and he kind of looked at it, and then he kind of looked at me, and I was like, oh, like. And I looked at him, right? Because I was, like, on the ground, you know, painting it, and I was, like, waiting for him to get mad, and he looked at me, and he just was kind of like, oh, so you're a man now? And I was like, oh. I was like, I mean, I don't know. I was like, I. I need it. And he was kind of like. I want to say he was.
- [19:14]
A
Things are getting real.
- [19:15]
B
Yeah. He was hinting at, like, there's, like, no return to.
- [19:19]
A
Right.
- [19:20]
B
And I mean, he said a lot, but, like, the exact words that I. I do remember was, oh, there's no turning back now, you know, and he was like, if you're gonna be involved in that stuff, then, you know, get it out of here. And. And you need to get out of here. And so, I mean, that was like a week or so before I got caught. So it wasn't like I, you know, was already out the door. Like, I was getting, you know, I was get. I was in the process of leaving, and then I got caught with. With the ak, but that didn't stop me. I got out and was right back to it. And again, I want to say, six months after that. Yeah, somewhere between six months and a year after that, right before my 19th birthday, I got popped again for another gun and dope and gang enhancement. And so now with that gang enhancement, that was the one thing that really was going to give me a lot of time on this case, because, you know, the gun and drugs, they would have probably given me two years, two and a half years, three years, you know, but it's a gang enhancement that now is a Strikable offense. And so the d. A. Seeing that, what I got caught with as a juvenile and now this was smart.
- [20:39]
A
And how do they. How do they correlate that? Like, someone's involved in a gang? Like, how did they kind of prove that?
- [20:45]
B
Tattoos also, who you get arrested with. At the time, when they came to raid my apartment, there was a bunch of homeboys there, and some of them were validated. They had already been to the joint. They'd already been locked up. They had done time. And so to them, they were like, okay, he's hanging out with validated. I'd never been to prison at this time. So to them, they're like, okay, he's hanging out with validated gang members. He's been caught with this AK that's what he's been convicted of. And now he's caught with more guns and drugs. Like, we're gonna hit him with a gang enhancement.
- [21:19]
A
Got it.
- [21:20]
B
And they. In my opinion, I feel like, well, I mean, they do this a lot, but they set me up to come back for even more time because they're like, look, you sign for the strike on this gang enhancement, and we'll let. We'll let you go. You'll do time served. Because I was in the county jail. You'll do time served and you go home. And I was like, yeah, sure. You know, sign. Yeah, yeah. And. And that hurt me when I came back for my last case, you know, what I went to prison for. So again, I just. I. I'm laughing now, but I'm just like. Throughout this whole time, I asked myself, not once did you stop to ask yourself, should I Change takes time, you know?
- [22:05]
A
And I feel like a lot of people have to go through a repetitive cycle over and over before they kind of learn I need to make a change.
- [22:15]
B
Yeah.
- [22:16]
A
And definitely, you know, for some people, that might be one time. For some people, might be 10. And the other thing, too, is no one. No one else is gonna be able to make that decision for you. Like, you're gonna have to come to that conclusion on your own.
- [22:29]
B
Yeah.
- [22:29]
A
And it's. It's gonna take a lot sometimes.
- [22:32]
B
Yeah, for sure. No. Yeah. Like.
- [22:34]
A
And like, you looking back now, you have a different knowledge and wisdom.
- [22:38]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [22:38]
A
Than you had then. So it's like you can't even ask yourself now that question because you weren't in the. You weren't the same person. You were. You're a completely different mindset.
- [22:47]
B
Yeah. Yeah. The one thing, though, that I do is I feel bad, and I have to take responsibility for it, because it was myself, you know, who inflicted all this damage on people. Luckily, I've kind of kept up with some of the people that I've hurt in the past outside of, like, you know, my family and all that, because doing time you hurt, you put stress on your family, you know. But there are times where I'm like, I can't dwell on it too much because then I'll just be like, man, dude, you were a scumbag. Like, you just were. Piece of. And I've come to terms with it and taken that responsibility and accepted, you know, all that. And like I said, I can't dwell on it too much because then I'm just like, dang, Especially like, the. The people closer to me that I hurt, you know, it's like I. I still feel bad about it, but again, like you said, like, you don't realize that. And in the moment, you don't realize just how selfish you really are when you're doing that, you know. And so again, I just continued. And again, it was another gun case, and it just. This time it was the feds that picked it up, though. And this I. I do want to talk about because I feel like they were very shady in this. So this particular case, there was an undercover ATF agent posing as a drug mule for a drug or for a cartel in Fresno. He said that he would transport anywhere from. I don't know, I think it was like 10 or 20 kilos at a time and that he knew where the drug house was at. So then he. On his payroll, like one of his, you know, confidential informants. Basically, he had a confidential informant that set all this up. And my two co defendants, one of them lived in this apartment complex where the confidential informant was the manager. And so one thing that they were leading up to this, the confidential informant was trying to get my co defendant, my friend. He was trying to get him to have me sell him an AK for another AK 47. And long story short, I just was not feeling. I was just like, no, we're, you know, we're not doing all that. But still, in the process of fighting this case, they try to bring it up. And I'm like, I never sold them anything, you know, but. But, you know, before all that. So that's how the ATF agent was introduced to us. So my buddy asked me if I'm wanting. If, you know, if I want to get in on this. He just tells me, hey, you know, so. And so my manager, he's like, he came to Me and he, you know, one of his buddies. Drug mule. Da, da, da, da. Stash house. We can go get 10 or 20 keys. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll check it out. Let me see. Let me hear what he has to say. And we meet in this McDonald's parking lot. And again, I was still involved. I mean, I was running the streets, doing wild stuff, but I was still wet behind the ears to a certain extent. And thinking about it now, I'm like, man, you could have clearly seen that he was freaking nervous. And like. Like, the ATF agent did not know how to play his role, you know, as an undercover. I didn't like any of it. I was just kind of like, no, I'm not really feeling it. And I think out of all the meetings, I think that was, like, the only one that I. I went to. Because there was one. There was three or four. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there was. There was four. And I went to that one and then showed up to, like, half of one where it was just kind of like, I'm good. And so this took, like, a month. And the last couple meetings, I was just like, I'm good. Like, that's whatever. But my two codefendants still went through with it. So they. The day of. The day of this, all this stuff supposed to go down, they show up. It's the ATF agent, the confidential informant, and my two buddies in the back. And the confidential informant is like, where is Looney? That was my nickname in the streets. Looney, right? And my codefund is like, yo, he doesn't. He's not interested. Like, he's not. He doesn't. He's not answering. He doesn't want to go. And the. The undercover was just adamant about it, like, no, call him back. Call him back. And they sat there for, like, 20, 30 minutes, and he was just blowing up my phone. And I'm like, bro, I already told you, like, I'm cool, you know? And so finally, the. The. The undercover agent was like, okay, whatever, you know, and they take off, and they got arrested at a. A storage place, because that's. They were supposed to go to the storage place, pick up the guns, the ski mask, and all that, and then go off and do it, right? And so that's where they got popped. And then I got popped right after that. At first, I think, like, our first offer was 24 years or it was some outrageous amount of time where I was like. At the time, I was thinking to myself, like, I didn't Even do.
- [27:39]
A
Yeah. I was gonna ask, like, why. Why did you get in trouble if you weren't there and you didn't want to go?
- [27:46]
B
Because I didn't notify the proper authorities.
- [27:50]
A
Interesting.
- [27:51]
B
Yeah.
- [27:51]
A
Okay. So that they. So they can say you were, like, still involved even though you didn't.
- [27:55]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:55]
A
Because you knew about it.
- [27:56]
B
Yep, exactly. And that's why I got arrested. And I was looking at the same amount of time as them.
- [28:04]
A
Yeah. That's crazy.
- [28:05]
B
Yeah. I was like, what?
- [28:07]
A
Right.
- [28:08]
B
Where. Where does this happen?
- [28:10]
A
Yeah, I might as well have done it then.
- [28:12]
B
Yeah, exactly. But. But after a while, it really put me into a. A really, like, sticky situation. So of course we didn't sign for the outrageous amount of time. And we were trying to get it dismissed on outrageous government conduct because we were like, had the ATF never proposed this idea, we would have never thought of this.
- [28:33]
A
Right. It's not like you guys were making the decision on your own.
- [28:36]
B
Exactly. It's not like we went to them and said, hey, we need your help.
- [28:39]
A
Yeah.
- [28:39]
B
Like, they came to us and said, hey, you want to do this crime?
- [28:42]
A
Right.
- [28:42]
B
You know, and when we did that, it was like a two week process where we were in court every day. It was kind of. It was kind of like a mini trial where it was like we were presenting facts and they would, you know, we had the confidential informant on the stand, the undercover agent, and come to find out that they were dirty. The sounds of the season can often sound like this. So when are we getting some grand cans? But with Hilton's season to stay sale, they could sound a bit more like this or this Stay and save up to 20% off when you book before January 5th at Hilton.com Hilton for the stay. Minimum two night stay required, excludes luxury and all inclusive properties. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know, to check the date of the big game first before you accidentally buy tickets on your 20th wedding anniversary and have to spend the next 20 years of your marriage making up for it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings. Vary terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.
- [30:00]
A
Really?
- [30:00]
B
Yeah. Yeah. The. The confidential informant was doing a bunch of stuff that he shouldn't have, and the undercover agent knew about it and, like, just didn't care.
- [30:11]
A
Brushing it under the rug.
- [30:12]
B
Yeah. Excuse me.
- [30:14]
A
And so did that work in your favor?
- [30:17]
B
Yeah, yeah, it actually. It actually did, but it worked more in the favor of my co defendants.
- [30:23]
A
Okay.
- [30:23]
B
And the reason why I say that is because the. So when we wrap everything up, the judge says, okay, you guys come back tomorrow and I'll give my ruling on this. Whether we're going to dismiss and throw out the entire case. Once that happens, they can't refile. Like, we're. We're home. That's it. You know? And so I want to say, maybe two or three hours after we got back to the county jail, my lawyer shows up and he's like, hey, you guys are going to get seven and a half years. He was like, you know, the DA is offering it, but you have to sign. If you don't sign, then your two co defendants can't get it. And I was like, okay. Like. And my lawyer at the time was like, saying, like, you know, think about it. He's like, because I honestly feel like we can beat this. We can actually go to trial if need be. He was like, you clearly told him, no, you're not interested. He was like, it's not on you to call the cops. You know, you. You're just trying to wipe your hands with it. He's like, you can. You have really good action at this. He's like, but if that happens, you then screw your co defendants over. Because then it's like, okay, well, since they showed up, they're automatically. Then that makes them automatically guilty. Yeah, and they're. And. And they get screwed. He's like, so you have that to think about. And remember, if you don't sign this, they can't get it. And you need to sign it before we go back to court tomorrow if this is what we're going to do. And, you know, with everything going on, my parents and family still in. Living in Fresno, you know, my, My. My little sister at the time, she was getting. She was wrapped up in the. In the street life, you know, as well. I mean, she wasn't out doing super crazy stuff. You know, her. Her husband at the time was. Was a homeboy. And so, like, we were still very much a part of that. Right? And I didn't want to bring any of that drama to my parents, to my sister. Right. I didn't want to be known as, like, this guy that didn't really snitch, but then kind of. Kind of took this route that screwed over some homeboys, you know, and so I signed. I. We. We We, I signed and then, you know, after that, their two lawyers, you know, took them the paperwork to sign.
- [32:48]
A
And so because you signed, did, were you automatically given the seven years as well?
- [32:52]
B
Yeah.
- [32:53]
A
Okay.
- [32:53]
B
Yep, yep. So I signed for that. And then off the prison we went. And I am still amazed. For some odd reason, I was the head of the indictment and I'm like, I, I played the lead. Like, my role was like the.
- [33:10]
A
Do you think it was because of the previous charges?
- [33:12]
B
I don't know. I, I mean, maybe, maybe, I don't know. But because of my previous charges and because of, you know, because when I was in the county jail, I was, I was in a lot, like, I got into a lot of trouble in the county jail, like, a lot, you know, to the point where I was in isolation, which is just like a hallway of 10 cells. And basically what you see outside of your cell or your cell door is like a brick wall, you know, and at the end of the hallway is a shower that has a camera in it. So they're watching you at all times. And, and I want to say maybe, you know, all of that combined placed me to go to usp, which is high security prison in the federal system. And my buddy started off at, at fcis and I was like, how does this happen? You know? Yeah. And they, they got to go to their first prisons were in California. My first prison was all the way out in Florida. I'm just thinking to myself, like, maybe you shouldn't have signed. Maybe you should have just said fuck it, you know, and, and, and you know, not have signed. But, you know, I, I, I get to. It was USP Coleman 1. I mean, there's crazy stuff that happened there. You know, anyone that's been there, done time there, or even familiar with the feds, you know, there's a lot going on there. And this is like, kind of like where I see my first or I realize my first. How do you say this? Like, I get my first taste of like econ economics, right? Because you had heroin on the yard, you had meth, you had weed, you had cigarettes, you had, you know, moonshine, Bruno, you had all that, you know, and you can see that like the money was flowing, right? With, you know, more money flowing, that creates other opportunities for other smaller guys that have like this little hustle where they'll clean your clothes or they'll clean your shoes or like, you know, if your shoes get holes in them, you know, they'll fix them, right? And so you, you kind of see that happening on a Small scale. And I. I'm there for three years, and I don't get into too much trouble there. Really, it was just like. There was a. You know, I was tattooing, and I was tattooing on the guys that were bringing in heroin. And then I eventually started dabbling in that because I was able to, you know, I had someone visiting me, and, you know, I get. I get wrapped up in that. Right. Again, back to doing the same thing. Yeah. You know, like, just not really understanding. Basically, to me, it was like, okay, I'm in prison. I'm gonna make the most of it. I'm gonna do what I need to do to make a name for myself. That was my main goal was, like, people are gonna know who I am. And so I get wrapped up in that. We start bringing in drugs, we start selling it. I'm tattooing at the time, and I have that going on. And really, I. I was doing it because. Well, one of the reasons why I. I enjoyed it was because I was able to kind of, like, set up. Set up things to where, like, if more of my homeboys came, we could take care of them, right? I was still very much dedicated to that. Cause I was still very much dedicated to, like, you know, making things happen. I mean, like I said, we don't really have someone that, you know, tells us what to do. Right. But it was more of, like, being able to, like, just function on our own. Right? And. And. And, you know, anytime someone would roll up, we'd have a good care package for them. They'd be taken care of. You know, if they didn't have family looking out for them, it was cool. We'd still, you know, make sure you had commissary, you were eating good. And so I was still very much a part of that. I still very much wanted to, again, like I said, make that name. And then there was. You know, there was a removal there of a. Of a homeboy that showed up that was, you know, no good. And then again, that just. It just. It's. It's. For me, I feel like it's like a. It's just like a. A snowball. Like, it's just when one thing happens, it's like, it then just bombarded with more of it. Right? Because then right after that, I went to another prison where it was really just a whole. I call it just like a whole weekend of violence. And that was the very first time that I realized what I was doing was completely against what my mom wanted for me.
- [38:54]
A
And why did they transfer you so.
- [38:56]
B
I got transferred because my, my points finally put me at a fci.
- [39:02]
A
Okay.
- [39:03]
B
And so they transferred me to Tucson and there were no homeboys there. And part of, like, gang culture. And this goes across the board, it doesn't matter, you know, if you're Southern, Hispanic, Northern, if you're a Hispanic gang member, this is what you're supposed to do. If you go to a prison yard and there's no, no, none of your homeboys there, you still do your best to try to get out to the yard to attack your enemy. And so, long story short, that's what happened. And I get into three separate altercations there, and then now I'm in the shoe. And I'm in the shoe maybe three weeks, two weeks, somewhere around there. And it's time for me to make a phone call, because you're allowed one phone call every month. And.
- [39:59]
A
And that's just complete isolation, right?
- [40:02]
B
For me, yeah. Because I was, I was wrecked alone in house alone. Because one of my altercations happened in the shoe.
- [40:07]
A
Got it.
- [40:07]
B
So after that, they just put me wreck alone, house alone. So I was, I was alone the whole time. And they bring this, they bring the phone to your door and they open up the tray slot and you reach through and you call, right. And before I tell the story, as Latinos, we're very close to our moms, like, and, and vice versa. Like, if you, I don't know if you've seen this. It's a funny picture. And it's like these three tatted up, they're, they're, they're sudanos, they're from Southern California and they're all tatted up, right? And, and then it's like the mom saying, like, oh, Misaelito is like my little angels, right? And it's like that's how our moms view us, you know, like we can do no wrong. And so I call my mom and she gets on the phone and she hears how quiet it is in the background. And she was like, you're back in the shoe, huh? And I was like, oh, yeah. And she was like, what happened? And I was like, well, you know, I, I can't really say, but, you know, some. An incident happened and I'm back in the shoe now, and I don't know how long I'll be in the shoe because they haven't given me, at the time, they hadn't given me my, like, my consequences, if you will, right? Like, they hadn't told me how long my shoe term was going to be if I was gonna get my commissary taken away, all that, right? Like, they'll come and do, like, a, Like a hearing, if you will, and they'll tell you, you know, what, what you. What's gonna happen. And so my mom is like, you could hear it in her voice. Like, her. She just was hurt, like, and, and, and her and I had never really had a conversation like this. Ironically, like, we, we never. I feel like she kind of didn't want to deal with it. Like, she didn't want to accept the fact, like, dang, my son is this wild, you know, heathen in prison, you know? And my. You could hear it in my mom's voice. You could just hear, like, the disappointment and, like, the, the frustration and the anger, right? And, like, she straight up told me she was like, look, when you were born, I didn't have these goals for you. Like, I didn't hold you and think, oh, my son's gonna go to prison one day. You know? She was like, I thought, like, you were gonna go to college, you were gonna be an engineer or, like, a doctor, you know? Like, she's like, I never thought you would be where you are right now. She was like this. She's like, when are you gonna learn? Like, what, what is it? Like, what's your problem? You know? Like, is this what you want for your life? Like, is this it? Like, what are you doing? You know? And, like, I had no words to say to that. I mean, what do you say to that, right? Like, I, I, I, I didn't know how to respond. And, and I just was real quiet, and I didn't really say anything. And, you know, we hung up the call with her saying, like, you know, you, you should think about what you want for your life. You know?
- [43:15]
A
Hey, guys. Today's episode is sponsored by manscaped and aura frames. All right, ladies, the holidays are sneaking up on us very quickly. And if you are somebody that has a special someone in your life, AKA a guy, then I have the absolute perfect gift for you. And it's not something cliche like socks or ugly sweaters. It is something that he will actually use all the time and honestly, something that will benefit you as well. So let's get right into it. It is the Chairman Pro package, and it is like the Rudolph of grooming. It is going to give your guy the smoothest, most irritation, free shave of his life. And I promise you, you will be taking all of the credit at all of your holiday parties, obviously something that we all do during the holiday season. Is take a lot of pictures. And while yes, it is super important for us ladies to look as beautiful as ever, it is just as important for our men to look clean shaven, groomed and perfect for our photos as well. And that is where the Chairman Pro comes in with its Flex Adjust technology. The blades in the pivoting head adjust to every curve of his face and is extremely gentle on the neck area. The Chairman Pro is also waterproof which means he can use it in the shower and obviously that simplifies cleanup which is always such a hassle. This is something that he can use daily or it even works with up to five days of growth. It has a 75 minute run time from just one single charge. The Power Shave Gel is a non irritating lubricating formula made specifically to work with the Chairman Pro and the Face Shave Soother is an aftershave serum that's to be applied after shaving and will help hydrate his skin, soothe any post shave irritation, and is designed to help reduce redness and defend against ingrown hairs and razor bumps. Gift your man with the ultimate grooming experience by Manscaped and get him the Chairman Pro package for the holidays. It's a thoughtful and practical gift that he'll actually use and love. Get 20 off plus free shipping with the code insane@manscaped.com that's 20% off plus free shipping with the code INSANE@manscaped.com something that I've noticed every single year and gets more and more frustrating is how hard it is for me to find the perfect gifts for the people that I love the most. All of my friends and family are so hard to shop for and I swear it's because they already have everything that they want and need. So I'm stuck thinking to myself, oh, what can I get my friends and family that's creative but also something that they're going to use and love? That being said, one gift that you can add to your list that I think think everyone in your life will surely enjoy is the Aura Digital Picture Frame. Aura Frames makes it extremely easy and convenient to share an unlimited amount of photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame. And if this is something that you're giving as a gift, you can use the Aura app to personalize and preload any pictures or videos that you want on the frame before actually gifting it, which I just feel like is so special and so unique. My personal favorite thing about Aura Frames is that I don't have to pick just one photo out of my Thousands of photos in my camera roll. That is literally like the most difficult thing to do. I have millions of photos of my pets and I don't want to just pick one because they are all perfect. So with OR frames, I can upload them all, have it kind of go on the shuffle and feature all of my animals all of the time through this digital picture frame for people to see when they come over. In my opinion, pictures hold so many memories and so many emotions and there is no better time of year than now to give somebody a gift that will constantly bring a smile to their face and remind them of some beautiful memories that they have had in their lifetime. Save on the perfect gift by visiting aura frames.com to get $35 off or as best selling carver mat frames by using promo code insane at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code insane. This deal is exclusive to listeners, so get yours now in time for the holidays. Terms and conditions apply. And now back to today's episode.
- [47:21]
B
And so we hang up. And luckily for me, I was housed alone because that, like, whole night I just was a crying like a little freaking baby, you know, and because I had realized just how selfish I was and how much I had hurt my mom, you know, like, leading up to this. I guess since I was so driven to like make this name for myself, I didn't really think about others and like, what their perspectives were, you know, like. Or how my mom felt. Right. Like I said, it was very selfish. And so, you know, realizing all this, I was just like, hell slap in the face. Yeah. You know, and I was just like thinking to myself, I'm like, I'm over here trying to prove myself to, you know, this group of people. And in return, what I'm getting is pain for my mom. You know, stress on my mom, right? Because she couldn't help herself. But watch these lockup shows and she's just like, are you okay? And she's just, you know, worried about her. I'm her only son. I'm her only son. And so it's like that was like. There's three moments in prison that started my, my change. And that was the very first one. And it was kind of at that moment where I was like, dude, you should really think about what, what you're gonna do with your life. Because I forgot to mention this, but when I got sentenced, the judge basically told me if I came back on another gun charge, I would get the minimum, which is 30 years, because I would then be qualified as an Armed career criminal in the federal courts. Yeah, and that starts off at 30 years because they would. They would use the. They couldn't use the AK against me because I was a juvenile when that happened, but they would use this prison offense and the. The one where I got caught and sentenced with the gang enhancement. And so it was kind of like, do you want to get caught with another gun? Do you want to get out and roll around with guns again? Because if you get caught, it's. It's a 30. It's. It's a mandatory minimum. There is no getting around that, you know, and so that was when I kind of was like, you know what? Okay, you know, like, maybe. Maybe let me look into some things. Like what, what. You know, I wasn't really, like, as active with that thinking until, you know, like, Incident two and three. I just call them Incident two and three, right? And so. So from there, I go back to a USP. I go to McQuery USP Macquarie out in Kentucky. And I'm there, and there's this gentleman from the Midwest, and I mean, we just called him Roach, his last name. And me and him are real cool, where we. We play chess. He's. He's old. Dude had been down 20, 30 years, some outrageous amount of time. And he's super cool. He's very respectful. And he invites me to this church event. And so, like, out of respect, I was like, yeah, sure, dude. I'll go check it out. You know, also, too, they were going to have some really good food. So. So if you. So for instance, the Muslims, you know, anybody that's a Jew, Christian, right? Like, there are certain events. Because this was for Easter, so there are certain events where you can bring in way better food, right? The administration will do that, right? And then you cook it in the. In the. In the kitchen and transport it to the, like, rec center, and you get together and it's good food, right? It's not prison food, right? And so, you know, part of me was kind of like, yeah, man, I'm gonna eat good. Like, let's go, you know. And so as we were going out, McQuarrie at the time was a split yard, meaning, like, half of the president would be on the yard and the other half would be in their units, and then vice versa. Like, it would go back and forth. Well, I'm going to the rec center and I see two of my homeboys on the yard, and they're like, hey, Looney, where are you going, man? I was like, oh, hey, I'm going to this church event. And they're like, what the hell, right? I'm like, yeah, man. Old man Roach, he invited me, man. You know, I'm going to go over there, check it out, you know, get my little grub on and then head back to the unit. And they're like, oh, okay, okay. And I turn around to, like, keep walking. And I'll never forget, I turned around one last time and I looked at them. And now at this time, I'm. I'm like a seasoned convict, right? Like, I'm not wet behind the ears anymore. A funny incident happened when I first got to Coleman that still showed I was wet behind the ears in my early 20s, I had a knife, and instead of, like, hiding it in, like, various parts of the yard or the cell or. Or just in the unit somewhere, I throw it in my locker and just put a bunch of clothes on it. Like, the COs wouldn't just come and, like, take the sweaters and be like, oh, you have a knife here, idiot. You know, so. So at this time, by the time I'm Aquari, I'm like, a seasoned conviction. And I could see their body language, and I could see it in their, like, look at that. They were giving each other that there. It was like, oh, okay. Like, and. And me, I processed that look and that communication as, oh, we need to go report this. Because, you know, we. We should have him, like, hit or something, you know, we should have him whacked because we don't do church, you know.
- [53:04]
A
Yeah.
- [53:04]
B
And sure enough, I get to the. To the hall that's. That leads to all, you know, the rec center and the basketball court and all that. And from that hall, you can see on. You can look onto the yard because there. There are windows. And so I follow them, right? And I'm watching them as they're going and talking to certain people, and I was like, oh, you scandalous little snakes. Because they hadn't done anything. They. They. This, you know, they. They had been down, you know, a few years, but in those few years, they hadn't done. They hadn't put in any work. They just were there.
- [53:42]
A
Yeah.
- [53:42]
B
You know what I mean? And so I took that as, man, I've done more in. In a weekend than you guys. You have done your whole bid, you know, like. And. And because I want to go and. And hang out and eat some food. And, you know, I. I took it as it would kind of be disrespectful to him because he was cool with me, you know, like I said, Wrote me and him were real cool. And I was, like, thinking to myself, like, you trifling bastards, dude. Like, all right, I see what you guys are on, you know? And that was the one thing that I needed to kind of be like, okay, I'm cool with you guys. Like, if this is what it takes for you guys to, like, now turn around and be like, oh, what's up with this guy? And, yeah, like, man, who the are you? Like, what? Like, and. And. And that combined with the phone call I had with my mom, like, I said that was what I needed. That was, like, what I needed to then be like, okay, when I get out, I'm not dealing with any of you guys.
- [54:43]
A
Right?
- [54:43]
B
Like, I'm good, you know? I was like, because if this is how you're treating me over this. Yeah, you know, I was like, you guys are. You guys are scumbags, you know? And so from that point on, I. I really just finished my time. Like, I wasn't. You can't completely distance yourself, right? Because then you get hit, you get whacked. Right? And so I was still hanging out, but I wasn't like how I was.
- [55:09]
A
Before, like, deep in it.
- [55:10]
B
Yeah. I. I didn't care about, you know, trying to make money and help others out. Like, I just. It was. I was just all about me. Yeah. Yeah.
- [55:18]
A
And so did you serve the full seven years?
- [55:21]
B
Yeah.
- [55:22]
A
Okay.
- [55:22]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I lost. I lost all my time, which, you know, I'll explain here. I thought I was gonna get six months halfway house and a year off my sentence because of rdap. So in Macquarie, my counselor tells me that. He was like, yeah, man. He's like, yeah, you're gonna get six months halfway house. RDAP will take a year off. He was like, you'll be home. Because at that time, I had, like, three years left. And he was like, yeah, man, you'll be home in roughly 18 months. And I'm like, what? I'm like, okay. And so I go and I'm telling my mom, and I'm like, yeah, 18 months, right. Because of this and that. And, you know, I'll have to do the halfway house, but I'll be in Fresno. And then, like, wow, man. Like, two weeks after this, he calls me back in, and he's like, hey, man, I actually messed up, and I lied to you. Like, you have nothing coming. And I just, like, flip out.
- [56:17]
A
Yeah.
- [56:17]
B
Because I'm like, dude, you are messing with my time. You're messing with my date. I just told my mom I'm going home in 18 months. Like, what the hell do you mean? I don't. And I'm just, like, getting. I'm not, like, right, but I'm, like, very, like. And I'm kind of raising my voice, and I'm like, dude. And you could see that I'm, like, contemplating something, right? And I mean, I wasn't gonna jump on him. I wasn't gonna, like, assault the guy, right? But I was just, like. I didn't know how to control myself, right? Because I'm like, dude, you. You literally just said 18 months.
- [56:51]
A
Yeah.
- [56:52]
B
And he sees that, and he's like, well, hold on, hold on. He's like, look, man, to make it up to you, he's like, how would you like to go to fci? And I was like, yeah, sure. All right. You know, that shut me up real quick, because I was like, yeah, I'll go back to an fci. You know, it's so somewhere, like, that.
- [57:09]
A
Is it just less rules?
- [57:11]
B
It's just. There's more. Because McQuirry sucked.
- [57:14]
A
Yeah.
- [57:15]
B
McQuarrie sucked. You know, one day you're in your cell. I mean, you're in your unit, you know? And then the next day, you're on the yard and then back and forth, right? Like, it just. It. You hardly had any yard time.
- [57:27]
A
Okay.
- [57:27]
B
You know, and that. And that sucks because. And also, too, dinner was not dinner. That every. Every time they brought dinner, it wasn't a hot meal. It was cold sandwich, you know, and then there was just. There was. There was no way to really make good, good money there. Like, nobody had. There was no drugs on the yard. There was no pruno. There was none of that. Right? I mean, I tattooed still. You know, I was. I was still tattooing, making money, but it wasn't like. I don't know, it just wasn't how, like, I envisioned how I wanted. Like, it wasn't like Coleman. Like, yeah, Coleman was rocking. Like, people were, you know. You know, getting. You know, there was riots, there were stabbings. There was all that. But it still had that. That other component of, like, okay, there's money on the yard. You know, McQuarrie was just dry, right? And so it's just like, oh, my God. And then it was in the snow, and then it was just like, oh, man, I'm good, dude. Like, I. I need to change. You know, I need to go to a different prison. And so. So he puts me in, and then I go to FCI Areno. And FCI Areno. I mean, I thought I would go to A prison where, like, there was, like, you know, money on the. There was weed or, you know, this, you know, pruno. But there was nothing on that yard. The only thing that I enjoyed was, like, I was already close to the house. And also they had a weight pile. So that was the cool thing. And the very last, like, moment that kind of was like a thorn in my side. Or maybe. Maybe that's not a proper way to describe it. It was more of like the knife I already had. Had, like, in my heart that. From, you know, causing my mom pain and all that. This event kind of like twisted it a little, you know, to where it was like, damn, dude. So I worked in the kitchen, and we would fry chicken, and then I would. We would wrap it up in. In big bags and wrap it around our waist, and then we take it to the unit and sell it, you know, because football, it was. It was during, you know, college football, NFL. And that's like, big in. In prison, sports is big, right? Because you can bet. You gamble on it. You can do, you know, tickets and whatnot. And so I go into one of the. They had TV rooms. And so I went into one of the TV rooms and it was Texas A M playing. I'll never remember who they were playing, but it was at Kyle Field. And you. I just sat there. You could just see all the. I mean, yeah, the majority of them are, you know, kids, students or undergrads, right? But, like, you just see the entire, like, just nothing but Aggies, and they're just, like, going hard. They're enjoying themselves. They're just, you know, painted and they're freaking. They're going wild, right? And, like, I was sitting there and I was thinking to myself, I was like, damn, dude. Like, that could have. You could have. You could have been doing something like that. Maybe not at A. M. But at some college. And I was thinking, like, man, you again. I was like, you dumbass. Like, for what? For what? For what? Now look at you. Like, you. At the time, I really. I. I didn't hate, like, all my homeboys because I still had some that I was cool with that I knew were, like, standup dudes. But I. I still had that bad taste in my mouth, you know, from the previous prison. And I was just thinking to myself, I was like, you're here. You were trying to impress, you know, older homeboys. You were trying to impress the entire, you know, group of. Of guys from Fresno, right? And they're freaking junkies, they're dope fiends, and, like, what, what good did that do you?
- [61:08]
A
Yeah.
- [61:09]
B
You know, and I'm just like beating myself up bad over this because I'm like, dude, you up your chance. Because at this time, I didn't know I could go to a community college and transfer. I, I don't know why I always say this, I don't know why I thought this, but I thought you had to go directly from high school to a four year university. I didn't know that.
- [61:30]
A
Yeah.
- [61:31]
B
And so I'm thinking they're like, man, you blew your chance.
- [61:33]
A
Right.
- [61:33]
B
Because you wanted to run around with guns and you wanted to be Billy Badass. Now look at you. You that off. And I just was like, oh, like I just hated myself. I just, it was horrible. Like I said, it was like twisting that knife even more, you know, and, and so from there I, I paroled from that prison. I paroled from there and I paroled to my moms. So it's me, mom, dad, and my younger sister. And during this time, my dad got so sober and my sister divorced her husband and she's now all about school. And my, her, my mom and my dad, they're all about church at this time. And in prison, my mom, she sent me a Bible. And when I was in Coleman USP Coleman 1. And I was just like, mom, like, I'll hold on to it, but I'm not going to read it.
- [62:31]
A
Yeah.
- [62:31]
B
You know, and my whole thing was like, I'm in prison. I don't want to be one of those guys that hides behind the Bible. Or like, here I am preaching the Bible. And then like, you know, I get out and two months later I come back because I was getting high or something. You know, you see that a lot. You know, and so I just, I don't know, I just, it just collected dust on the top of my locker. And it wasn't until, like I got out that my mom and sister started taking me. And it was pretty cool. I, I enjoyed it because there was, there were other guys there that had similar backgrounds.
- [63:06]
A
Yeah.
- [63:06]
B
And so we're doing all, you know, I wouldn't say like we were doing church, like, religiously. We're probably doing it like once a week, maybe once every other week. But then the, the moment that killed, like my, like my rage is the moment that my dad asked me to forgive him for how he raised me. Okay. I have to tell you, I was.
- [63:30]
A
Just looking on ebay where I go for all kinds of things I love.
- [63:33]
B
And there it was, that hologram trading card, one of the Rarest. The last one I needed for my set. Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams.
- [63:42]
A
One of a kind. Ebay had it.
- [63:43]
B
And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful. Whatever you love, find it on eBay. EBay. Things people love Looking for a pickup truck to get just about anything done. Look no further. The Chevy Silverado EV isn't just the most powerful Silverado ever with next level towing capability and technology. It also offers game changing versatility with the available multiflex midgate and tailgate. Which means Silverado EV helps you carry large, bulky and oddly shaped items up to nearly 11ft in length. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Visit Chevrolet.com to learn more. You know with. Because he was, he was mean. He was a mean dude and you know, he, he, he wanted me to forgive him for, you know, the times that he would hit me. You know, there have been times where he'd hit me with an extension cord, oil dipper, like anything he could get his hands on. When he was mad, he was mad. And then also for like how he would make us fight. And so it was like a weird, I don't know, it was a very weird, I don't want to say interaction because the interaction itself wasn't off putting, but it was the feelings that came afterwards where it was like I really, like, I really felt like a, like a lighter, better person, you know, Like I felt like I started to feel kind of good about myself, you know.
- [65:18]
A
Well, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think too, you know, some people that deal with childhood trauma like that, they never get an apology and sometimes that's all they want, you know, like they're seeking it, they ask for it. But I feel like since that kind of came to you from the goodness of your dad's heart and kind of like on his own.
- [65:40]
B
Yeah.
- [65:40]
A
I feel like you really knew and believed like he meant it like that was by choice from him.
- [65:46]
B
Yeah.
- [65:46]
A
And it was genuine.
- [65:47]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Because I could start, I could see that he was fighting back tears.
- [65:52]
A
Yeah.
- [65:52]
B
And I've never seen my dad cry. Never. Never. He's, he's not the type where it's oh, I love you so. And you know he doesn't do that, you know, so seeing that I was like, okay, this is right. Yeah. It's not, he's not bullshitting. Right.
- [66:07]
A
And it probably to like kind of took the weight off of you. That was put onto you during childhood of, like, in your mind, maybe, like, I have to be this type of man, and I have to prove myself. And maybe even though you weren't thinking that consciously anymore, like, as an adult, it kind of removed that for, like, the child version of yourself.
- [66:27]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like my life, the past I got out in prison, what, 2016. I feel like the last, like, I don't know, seven, eight years that I've been out, I feel like my life has been, like, this constant killing of, you know, looney, the. You know, this gang member and killing that ego that comes with that and, like, just being myself and being okay in my own skin, you know, I.
- [66:54]
A
Think it's also just, like, truly finding who you are today without any of that. And, you know, we can have many different versions of ourselves. You know, we go through different phases in our life, and I. I don't think there should ever be a time that no matter how bad we could have been or were, that we should look back and be like, ugh, like that. That. You know, I hate that version of me. I feel like we. We have to get to a point where we can kind of face that version of ourselves and accept it and speak to it and give it some sort of grace. Because at that point, like, we were that way for a reason, even if it was bad reasons. Like, that was part of our journey. That was part of our story. But now we can be grateful of where we are now and everything we've learned from it. And that's not to excuse any of the behaviors. It's more so. Just so that we don't have that negativity and regret, because that doesn't serve us either.
- [67:45]
B
Yeah, no, that's. That's very accurate right there. Because if I think back to the times where I think about my previous life and the things that I did, I will start to beat myself up or over it, you know, and it's kind of like, you know, then you. Now. You're just. You're just stuck back. You're now getting back on that hamster wheel, you know, and so, well, we.
- [68:06]
A
Can'T heal until we're willing to accept.
- [68:09]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's very true.
- [68:11]
A
You know, like, we have to be able to confront the old version of ourselves and truly, I think, be able to kind of, like, speak to it as if we're, like, right in front of them. And then that's how we can be able to, like, heal from it and learn from it ultimately. Because if we hold that Resentment and that bitterness, it's like that's gonna prevent us from fully just letting go and just accepting. Like it is part of our journey.
- [68:40]
B
Yeah. And then so that was like 2016. And my mindset at the time was just, just work, just start making money. It. And I never thought of college or school just because for one, my mindset was, I'm an ex convict, I'm full of tattoos. You know, at the time my face was still heavily tattooed. And so I'm thinking to myself, like, college is not what, you know, college is not even on my radar at all. And I get a job as a welder. So I'm working. And then I, I moved back to, I moved back to, to Fresno because I got married at the time and moved back to Fresno again, find a job working as a welder and then tattooing at a friend's shop. So my days were basically Monday through Saturday, 5am to 3pm or sometimes 5pm welding. I'd go home, take a shower, go to the tattoo shop until maybe like nine or ten at night. And to me, like, I was content with that. You know, I was, okay, cool. You know, I'm not in the streets. I'm not, you know, there's plenty of times where, you know, homeboys would hit me up, hey, man, let's go out here. Listen, I'm like, no, I'm good, bro. Like, I'm good. You know, like I said at the time I was married. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm doing this, you know. And then I, So my, my mom and my sister and dad moved back from Fresno and they were living in Salinas, California, which is two and a half, two hour drive from Fresno and about an hour drive from San Jose. And so I go up there to visit. And my sister's, she's, she's in college at the time and she's working like on an upper division stats class. And I started like, me and my sister have this funny relationship. We, you know, we know, we call like, I'll call her Cockroach. Like, it's a, it's a, it's an inside thing, right? It's, it comes from, you know, childhood friends and family. And so, you know, well, you know, hey, what's up, cockroach, whatever. And so she's working on this problem and she's like explaining it to me and I'm kinda like there with her, you know, I'm like, okay. But then I start like goofing around, right? And playing around with her. And I was like, well, no, here, I'll solve it. And I grab her calculator and I do something and I start messing with it. But, like, she was kind of like, I mean, I could have been, you know, been blown smoke out of my ass. I don't know what I was kind of doing, but I was, like, still able to, like, kind of stay there with her, right? And she was surprised by it, and she was like, you should go back to college. And like I said at that time, my mindset was like, no, I have a criminal record. I'm not going to go to college, do all this time in college just to get a degree and get out. And then it's like, oh, you can't get a job because your record. Not only that, my. I had a face full of tattoos. And so I was like, no, I'm good, you know, no, I'm good. And she just kept pounding me. And then, of course, my mom, you know, she's like, yeah, you know, go back to school. Like, you know, when you're, you know, a little kid, you're, you know, you were. You were. You did good in school, you know. And I was like, yeah, I was a little kid, you know, nine or ten. Like, I'm an adult now. It's been years since I was in.
- [72:19]
A
In school, and that's a commitment.
- [72:21]
B
Yeah. Oh, my. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I have been in school for a little over seven years, and. And. And when I get my degree, it'll be almost eight.
- [72:32]
A
Wow.
- [72:32]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So. So I was like, nah, I'm good. I'm good. Like, you're. You're tripping, right? And I had this amazing opportunity lined up to go work on the pipeline, and that fell through. And like I said at the time, I wasn't, like, this hardcore, like, Christian, but I had, like, this faith that I was working on and building. And then. And so to me, that was, like, the sign that I needed. And I called up my sister and. And. And for me, the reason why I thought it was even more of a sign was because I did really well on this. On this. So it was with the union. It was going to be with a union in California, and I was going to go work on the pipeline as a welder's helper. I did really well in everything that. The actual written tests and. And then also, you know, the day of, like, they had this demo day to replicate what your life would be like on the pipeline and just how you, you know, what to do. You know, always handing rods to the to the welders, you know, using a grinder, certain procedures, right? Like when you're grinding, you know, you yell out eyeballs to make sure everyone covers up. And so I did well on all that, and I was second on the list. So I thought, like, oh, I'll be the. On the first thing smoking, you know? But I put my number down wrong when. When. You know, when I filled out everything. Don't know how I put down my number wrong, but I did. So when they called me and it was the wrong number, they just scratched me and took me off the list. And so months go by, and I'm like, man, I should have been gone by now. You know, this was like a January of 2017. 17. And. And, you know, it's now, like, May or June. And I'm like, man, I should have been gone by now. Like, it's been six months almost. So I call up. Call up the. The. The union. They're like, oh, yeah, man, we called you, but you. Your number was wrong, so we scratched you off. And. And they're like, but you know what, man? Like, do you. Do you want us to put you back on the list? And that was the. The moment where I was like, no, this is the sign that I needed. I was like, no, it's fine. It's cool. It's. It's all right, man. Thank you. And so. And so from there, it just was, okay, sister, what is this life? Like, what. What is this? What does this look like? And she sat me down. She basically did everything for me because, like I said, I didn't know anything.
- [74:56]
A
Yeah.
- [74:57]
B
So she started the whole process of getting me enrolled at Fresno City College. And at this time, they were doing placement tests. And so she sets up my appointment. I go down. And the lady to help me, her name is R.V. gill. There was, like, three math tests, and she gives me the lowest one, and I, like, absolutely killed it. Like, I just did really well. And she sees that, and she's like, no. She's like, you know what, dude? You did too good on this. She's like, here, take this hardest. The hardest one that we have, and then we'll go from there. And so I take the test. I. What I could answer, I'd answered. And then there were some questions that I couldn't answer, But I saw that there had been, like, a little circle on the. On the answer, and someone had erased it. So I was just like, oh, I'll use that one. I'll use that one. I'll use that one. I'LL use that one. And so the highest you could get, like, the highest math class you would get placed in was Calculus one. And she. I was straddling between algebra and. And trig. And when I get to her and she tells me that, she's like, well, she's like, you're kind of like, in between. I could either put you in algebra or I could put you in trig. She was like, but what do you want to major in? And I was like, honestly, I don't know anything about majors. I don't know any. I don't know anything.
- [76:21]
A
I'm just getting started.
- [76:22]
B
Yeah. I told her. I was like, I've. I've. I'm just trying to figure it out. And so she was like, well, what do you like to do? And I was like, well, I like to work with my hands. I like to make things and build. And she was like, okay, you're gonna be an engineering major. And I was like, all right, all right, whatever, you know? And she was like, well, because of that, we're gonna place you in trigonometry because that's higher than algebra, and it'll be one less. Like, you'll start off higher, basically, you know. She's like, because you have to take all the math. So I was like, all right, whatever. And at this time, I have no idea what she's saying. I have no idea what I'm signing up for. I don't. I don't know any of this, right? And. And I'll never forget when she told me that I'll be starting in trigonometry. I was like, how the. Do you even spell trigonometry right? Like. And I was just like. But the whole time, I was like, nah, bro. Like, let's get it, you know? Like, it is what it is. So we. I get out, I have the list of classes that I have to sign up for, and I text my sister, and I don't know how to spell trigonometry. So I put T, R, I G. And then I see, like, the autocorrect. And I was like, oh, okay, that should be it, right? And if it wasn't for that, I would have just had to leave it at, like, trig, you know, because I didn't know how to spell it. And. And so I just. I take off. And like I said, at this time, I have no idea about college or anything that comes with college, and I didn't know about rate. My professor basically tells you, you know, gives you reviews on the professors, right? Um. And so I just go online. My sister helps me. She goes online with me, and she shows me how to register, and I'm just, like, picking classes that fit my schedule. Well, I happen to get a math class with. At the time, she's. She's retired, but her name is Ms. Win. And she was, like, feared on campus. Like, everyone, like, whenever I would tell someone, like, oh, yeah, I'm in Ms. Win's class, I'd be like, what? Oh, my gosh, she's so hard. I had to drop the class and this and that, right? But I loved it because it was so structured. It was so. There was so much discipline that you needed to do well in that class. And. And I absolutely just killed the class. And I was the only student that she went to after, like, the class was over. And she's like, you need to be a math tutor. And again, I was still in that mindset of, like, nah, I'm a convict. Like, I look at me, you know, And I told her. I was like, well, Ms. Win. I was like, I don't know. Like, she's like, no, no, no, no, no. She's like, I'm gonna put in my recommendation. She was like, they know when I put in a recommendation, that's. That's golden. And it's because she was so strict, you know? So it's like, if you survived her class, it was like, okay, I know this is. This. This person knows math, right? And so I was like, all right, I'll whatever, you know? And so I Then I then take. Because at the time, they had to do it, this was the fall of 2017, going into entering 2018, and you had to take the, like, the recommendation down there. And so I go down there and. And the lady that would be my. That was going to be my boss. Her name's Heather Walker. I go to her, introduce myself, tell her, hey, you know, Ms. Wen sent me over. She said I should apply. And I was like, but I'm gonna be honest with you. I have a record, and I'm still on parole. And so she was like, no, cool. She's like. She's like, don't worry about it. She's like, look, we'll do it like this. If they say something, then. Then we'll figure it out. But if they don't say anything about, like, oh, you need to pass this background check, or. Yeah. She's like, we're not gonna say anything, right? And. And I was like, all right, cool. And everything went smoothly. We never heard back. Like, hey, he needs to take a. He needs to do a background check or. Anyway, we were. I just. I kind of, like, just flew under the radar. And after that, I. I became a tutor. And so I was a math tutor at Fresno City College my entire time there. And in the moment, I didn't think so much of it because I, like, it was my first semester, you know, and I was just like, again, I was. I had. I turned into the person that's wet behind the ears, you know? Like, this is all new to me. Like, what. You know? And so I never really, like, stopped to think and, like, reflect on that moment, because it was at this time just, like, how I was with my gang career. That's. That's how I was treating school was like, no, let's get it. Let's. Let's go. You know? And so I didn't really, like, sit back and reflect on. On just how important my interaction with Ms. Nguyen and Heather was, because now that I think about it, it was them believing in me that kind of helped me get rid of that. My own, like, stigma. Right. Like, oh, you're just a convict. Yeah. You know? And so starting to see that, I started to get more comfortable in school. And then so, you know, I become a math tutor. So 2018, spring of 2018, I take pre calc, and I've now made a couple friends that were also math tutors, but they were starting. They were going to take calculus three that following fall. So fall 2018. Right. And they told me, hey, why don't you take Calculus one and two during the summer? Calculus one and four weeks. Calculus two and six weeks. Like, they're. Soon as Cal one ends, you start.
- [82:00]
A
Yeah.
- [82:00]
B
You know, it'll end on Friday. That Monday you start Cal 2, and you'll do that for six weeks. And they were kind of like, man, you're not down. Like, you're not. And I was like, oh, okay.
- [82:09]
A
Like, let's get it.
- [82:10]
B
Yeah, you guys are ch. Oh, this is a challenge. Like, okay. You know, and so. And so I did that. I did Cal 1 and then followed by Calc 2. I did really well in Calc 1. Calc 2. I remember the first day of class, and the professor was reading off the roster, and he gets to my name, and I'm like, oh, yeah, here. And he kind of, like, looks at me like, like, what? All right. And I took that, like, super disrespectful. And I was like, oh, dude. I was like, watch what I do to your glass. Like, you have no idea. And like, it, like, just bothered me. And I did so well in the class that when the final came, I. It was out of 12 questions. So there's 12 questions on the final. I only answered eight because I needed a C to keep my A in the class. So I was just like, all right, do the first eight. Just kill the eight. And I, like, turned it in and was like, yeah, I'm good. You know, just to kind of get that one up. Like, yeah, you know, I was still kind of very. Like, I still had that, like. Like that ego, you know, it just wasn't. It was now transferred over here to. To. To school now, you know, and so. And then. So I joined my buddies for calc 3 and in the fall, and then after that, Differential Equations. But this whole time, I never really realized, like, I really love math. Like, I enjoy math so much. Like, it's just something about getting a problem no matter how long it takes me. And little by little, like, working and solving, like, I get so much joy. I don't know why I get a.
- [83:59]
A
Lot of amazing, though, because I'm not like that at all. I. I think I had a. I think I failed a math class once or twice.
- [84:06]
B
Yeah, I love. Like, I will. Like, I have books and on all types of, you know, different math fields. And, like, sometimes I'll just binge watch YouTube videos. Like, I really enjoy math and all my math classes, I've done all. Well, like, all A's in every single math class. And it's because I just enjoy it, you know, And. And so I tutored math. I tutored all, you know, from differential equations, linear algebra, all the calculus. I did that for years at Fresno City because I had essentially, in one year, taken out all of the, you know, calc 1 to 3 and differential equations in linear algebra because I had crammed it in the summer, you know, So I still needed to take a couple other, like, physics classes and engineering courses. And so I basically just stayed there and tutored and went to class, did the rest of my courses that I needed. And one day, like I said, I didn't know. I didn't at this time. Like, I knew I was going to transfer. I knew, okay, I could go to, you know, Fresno State or whatever, you know, I thought, like, it would have to be, like, California schools, you know? And the counselor calls me in and it's like, yo, man, like, it's. You need to apply. Like, it's time for you to get the hell out of here. You know, and she sees how high my GPA was, and she's like, yo, you can apply to like any school you want to. And I was like, oh, okay, like, like California. Like, what do you mean? Like, she was like, yeah, any school. And I was like, well, like, when you say any school, like, you mean out of state? And she's like, yeah, like any four year university that accepts transfer students. And I was like, oh, okay, like dope, you know. And so of course I had to apply to Texas A and M, right. Because I just felt so drawn to. To the Aggies because of the, the football game. But I applied to quite a few. And if I'm being honest, it was driven out of part ego, but also part like, mainly like, I wanted to prove that I'm no longer a conviction. Yeah, right. Like, I'm no longer like this gang member, I'm no longer like this parolee, this, you know, guy with, you know, tattooed from head to toe. And when I say tattooed from head to toe, I mean, like, like, you know, prison gang tattoos. Right. Because there's a bunch of people that are comfortable with their tattoos and all that. Right. And so I applied to a lot of universities and got into almost every single one. The only, I think there was like maybe three that I didn't get into. One of them, I was wait listed, but there were. I was only wait listed because I didn't take a chemistry class that they required. And that was University Illinois's Urbana Champaign. And they basically were like, yo, dude, if you can guarantee that you'll take this class during the summer, we'll accept you. I got into Georgia Tech offer. These schools were for electrical engineering.
- [87:22]
A
Okay.
- [87:24]
B
And I got into Georgia Tech, Texas A&M UT Austin, UCLA, Fresno State, because I applied to Fresno State because, you know, that was hometown. And then I got into Stanford and that was crazy. That was crazy because I really only, like, I didn't know anything. Like, you know, like, I just was like, okay, like, can I get in? Like, it's a private university. I think, like, at the time, like, their transfer acceptance rate was like a little over 1%. Like, it was. I didn't even, you know, think about it. But I applied because I heard, like, private schools were really generous with, with financial aid.
- [88:05]
A
Yeah.
- [88:06]
B
And so I get in, I get the acceptance. You know, I go to my student portal and bam, you know, you're accepted. And I was like, what the hell? Like, it didn't really, like, I mean, even now, sometimes it doesn't really register.
- [88:19]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [88:20]
B
You know, people ask me, oh, what, what school do you go to. And I'm like, oh, Stanford. And then even I have to be like, I do go to Stanford, you know, like, oh, okay. And so I get in, and. And I. Right away. Right away, I call my mom, and I remember, I. So I called her, and I was like, mom, I got into Stanford. And she's like. She was like, stop. She's like, no way. She's like, what? She's like, are you being serious? I was like, no, Mom, I got into Stanford. And she was like, oh, my. Like, she, like, just started freaking out, right? And she was like, you know, praise Jesus. And she was all happy and excited. Yeah. And. And I felt like in that moment, like I was like, oh, yes. Like, now I'm. Now she can be proud that I'm her son. You know, it's like, you know, that's no longer like, oh, hey, you know, where's. You know, when's Paul getting out? You know, oh, hey, you know, is, you know, Paul. Where's Paul at now? You know, what prison's he at now? You know, like, yeah, it's now like, oh, my son goes to Stanford.
- [89:24]
A
Right.
- [89:25]
B
You know, so I felt. Felt, man, I felt super good after that call. Right? Like, I felt like I was able to, like, kind of redeem myself with my mom and pay it back to her. Yeah. You know, and so, of course, you know, I accepted Stanford, right. And, you know, I take off and go to Stanford.
- [89:45]
A
And did they offer financial aid?
- [89:48]
B
Yeah, so that was. It would. That's one thing that I feel like Stanford does well. So if you make less than 150,000, everything is covered.
- [90:01]
A
Wow.
- [90:01]
B
Yeah. And. And so. And they talk about that, like, as if your family makes less, but since I'm independent, it was on me. So since I made less than 150,000 a year.
- [90:14]
A
That's awesome.
- [90:15]
B
Yeah. Everything was covered. Room and board, it's amazing. Meal plan, tuition, everything. And then every quarter, I would get maybe a little less than 6,000.
- [90:27]
A
Okay.
- [90:27]
B
So. And. And they have three quarters, right? The autumn, winter, and spring. And so every quarter for the first two years, because that's guaranteed. The first two years. Yeah, you. You get that. It's like a little. It's like 50, a little over 5,600. But you have food taken care of, room and board taken care of. So that's just like, money that, like.
- [90:50]
A
Right.
- [90:50]
B
You put to the side, you know, or you, like, you know, use. If you want to do, you know, get some groceries or something, you know, and so I get to Stanford and quickly realize, though, that it's a different world. It's a very different world than anywhere I've been. My first quarter there, the police would harass me.
- [91:14]
A
Really?
- [91:14]
B
Yeah, because they wanted. They were like, what are you doing on campus? You know? And I'm like, I'm a student, you know, so. So, I mean, that, as weird as it sounds, didn't bother me as much because I expect that from the police.
- [91:29]
A
Yeah.
- [91:29]
B
You know, but when it's faculty, like professors that are like, yo, what are you doing here? You know? Or like, one time I was taking a class that was in the McMurtry Building, and the only way you can get in is if you're taking a class in that building. So say I. Even if I have my ID and I'm not taking a class in that building, I could be, and it's not gonna let me into the building. This guy sees me, tap, get into the building, go to the elevator, tap, push the third floor button. And then he's like, hey, man, are you a student? And I'm like, right, no, I just stole someone's ID so I could get into this freaking building. Right. He's like, let me see your id. And I was like, oh, really? And, you know, at the time, I was very. I was. I was pretty pissed off. And maybe I shouldn't have done this, but, like, I put it, like, right in his face and was like, here, man, here. Like, here, look at it. And there was, like, this electrician or this guy working, and, like, he noticed it and was kind of like. And he was like. And the guy asking, you know, the faculty member asking for my ID was kind of like, oh, okay, now, like. Like, he realized, like, oh, you know, I maybe shouldn't have done that. And. And the. The worker, I think he was like a maintenance man. Like, I said, he was doing something right. He had a cart and he. He brought up. He brought up some sporting event, and he was like, oh, so how about that? And I just kind of, like, looked at him like, nah, bro. Like, because I was pissed. I'm like, dude, if. If I was, you know, 18, blonde hair, blue eye, no tattoos, you know, would you ask me for my id, you know? And so that was my first year at Stanford. I hated it. I absolutely could. I did not like it at all.
- [93:13]
A
Yeah. It's like a completely new environment and adjustment.
- [93:16]
B
Yeah. And like, there are just so many entitled kids.
- [93:21]
A
Yeah. And I think, too, like you said, like, the judgment factor.
- [93:24]
B
Yeah.
- [93:24]
A
Towards you.
- [93:25]
B
Yeah. My time there, I've Been able to, with bringing up my past. Like, I've been to prison, you know, did time. I've been able to like, see who's cool. And it's like, oh, cool, dude. Like, and they're intrigued. They're like, well, you're in prison. Like, is it like the movies and the shows and like, you know, they're wanting to know all the, you know, little details and then they're super cool with me or they just avoid me after that. They're kind of like, oh, God, no. Okay. And they won't deal with me at all afterwards, you know. But really what, what turned it around was my second year, I did a particular class. It's called sophomore college. And it's like a class that you take before the school year starts. And John Pauley from the electrical engineering department was teaching it along with Stephen Clark. And they're amazing. And that environment with them and then like how the other students were just hella cool. We like became like this tiny, like little close knit community. And that was, made me what, made me stay at Stanford.
- [94:24]
A
Yeah.
- [94:25]
B
And then what was really awesome about that was because after that, all the other students that were in that class, we all took the same classes together.
- [94:32]
A
Yeah.
- [94:33]
B
So I was like, oh, okay, cool now. And then that's how I started to build a little community.
- [94:36]
A
Yeah, exactly. Which honestly, that's important and.
- [94:38]
B
No, it is.
- [94:39]
A
In any part of your life.
- [94:40]
B
Yes, yes, exactly. And then of course, you know, I hang out with a lot of vets because they have similar, you know, traits as ex cons. Right. The dark humor, the, you know, it's. I mean, if you can't offend them, it's really hard to offend them. And so it's really the SOCO community, the SOCO class that I took, the kids from, from that class and the vets that, you know, became my, my community. And after that I kind of found like a little groove, you know, was introduced some amazing professors there, Jerry Kane, you know, Julie Zielinski. Like, they're all amazing. They're. They're in this, the computer science department. And yeah, after that it was like, okay, cool. This, I belong here. Like, this is my place. Yeah, yeah. And then I just started networking. I started the same skills that I would use in the streets of like, trying to find a better pride, you know, a better dope man, a better, you know, guy that has, you know, can get me cheaper guns or better guns or bigger guns. Right. Like the same networking skills that I use in the streets and in prison. I used at Stanford.
- [95:43]
A
Yeah.
- [95:44]
B
You know, and so I ended up doing research for a while under John Pauley, working on the wireless mri. And that was fun. That I feel like that that was at the end of my third year. That was kind of like what, like, really solidified and brought it together because it was kind of like, because Stanford's a big research university, right? And so I was like, I was able to say, like, oh, yeah, I'm doing research with Professor Polly. You know, and so that really. And it's some pretty crazy, complicated stuff that we're doing. So it was kind of like, that was like what I needed at the very end to kind of be like, okay, no, dude, like, you, you really like you, you, you deserve to be here. You, you, you know, you, you, you belong here.
- [96:31]
A
And I think something I was going to say before too is it's important that you find a group of people that you can still relate to and be yourself with. Because even though, like, you've made this turnaround in your life, that doesn't ever mean that you should, like, change who you are, you know, deep down in the core and, like, have to bend who you are to fit into a certain niche of people.
- [96:50]
B
Yeah, my buddy Jody, he is also ex con, Stanford grad as well, and he graduated like my second year. And I didn't really know him until he had already graduated, but he's always on campus because he's doing, man, he's in. Man, that guy is involved in everything. That guy knows how to move. And I always tell him, I was like, man, you learned that in the streets and you're just now using it in Silicon Valley. And, you know, because he knows everybody at Stanford, you know, he even helps teach a class. He's big into education and using, like, AI for education. And so it's so cool when he does come to campus or when we do, you know, meet up, because I can say the funny stuff. You know, I could joke around, be like, yard recall or, you know, do some prison. And, and he knows and he's laughing, you know, and like, everyone else around us is like, what the hell? He's been cool to, to have around. But yeah, you're right. You, like, you need to still, like, I can't completely just be like, oh, no, I'm no longer like this ex convict. Like, no, like, it's still there, you know, and, and the moments that, the moments that do remind me of that is when I'll have nightmares. So I, I have, you know, been diagnosed with ptsd. You know, stemming from my time in prison. And there will be times where I'll have that nightmare where I'm back in prison. And, like, you know, here recently, I had a nightmare where I walk into a unit, and I immediately feel tension. I can see it. Like, I can see groups of guys, right? And that's always, like, a telltale sign that it's like, something's gonna happen. And as I'm walking by, like, there's these group of white boys that walk by, and they're like, yeah, man, like, whichever one you want to book, you know, go ahead and. And get off, you know, and we'll follow suit. And I'm like, oh, they're gonna hit somebody. You know? And then, like, in this dream, I turned around, and they were staring at me, and so I was like, oh, they want to hit me. I have no knife. And in. In this dream, I'm like, bro, but you were at Stanford. What happened? How the hell are you back in prison? You were in Stanford. And then, like, I have to quickly, like, forget about that because, like, now I need a knife in. In the dream, right? And it feels so. Like, it. I think it's true, you know? And so this particular dream, a black man dropped down a knife, and I got it, and I was thinking, like, okay, if I'm. If they're gonna take me out right now, then I'm at least going to take one with me. Like, we're going together, and in the dream, I run towards them, and we start stabbing each other. And I think maybe after, like, the fourth or fifth time that they, like, stab me, I, like, force myself to, like, wake up, and I wake up, and then it's like the whole bed is drenched in, like, sweat, you know? And when that happens, I have to, like, tell myself, like, no, that's just. You're not. You're not. Because I'll start to think, like, oh, man, you. You're still a convict. Like, you're still. That. You had that mentality of, well, go get a knife. And, you know, but then I have to, like, quickly realize, like, no, that's. You were thinking like that because you were in prison also.
- [100:06]
A
That's survival mode.
- [100:07]
B
Yeah.
- [100:08]
A
You know?
- [100:08]
B
Yeah.
- [100:08]
A
And I think, too, you probably have those nightmares and dreams now because there's more at stake. Like, you have something that you value so much and you're so proud of. And I think that subconsciously, like, our mind has this fear of, like, well, I could lose it all, you know? And it's like, you. We almost Revert back to worst case scenario of our lives. And that's just like what our subconscious brain does. It takes us back there. And I think it all just stems down to that in the back of your mind, that fear of losing it all.
- [100:44]
B
Yeah.
- [100:45]
A
Because you value it so much. And that's just kind of how the brain works sometimes.
- [100:50]
B
Yeah, no, that's, that's very true. And, and it's. Now that you say that I agree with you so much on that because I now have things lined up. Right. I'm graduating next quarter.
- [101:02]
A
Get things going for you.
- [101:03]
B
Yeah. You know, I'll be out in Houston working.
- [101:06]
A
But that's good because it shows that you, you've broken that cycle within yourself. Because before it was like, if I get out, like, I could just go back. You know what I mean? It wasn't. But now it's like things are at stake. Like you're, you're making something of your life and you don't want to lose that or screw it up.
- [101:20]
B
No. Yeah, no, for sure. Because I'm always like, I don't want to get overly excited about stuff. Right. Because in prison you can't do that because it, you know, just like that you can lose it.
- [101:30]
A
Right.
- [101:30]
B
Or like, you know, you go on lockdown or whatever. Right. Because my job is with Philips 66 as a midstream engineer. And the recruiter, I reached out to her because they told me I was going to have to do a background check.
- [101:45]
A
Yeah, I was good. That was my next question I'm going to ask was about, yeah, jobs and stuff.
- [101:49]
B
And, and so I told her, hey, I'm gonna be honest with you. I have a criminal record. You know, this is, it's, it's. Majority of it's pertaining to firearms. And so she told me, as long as it's older than seven years, I should be good.
- [102:09]
A
Okay.
- [102:09]
B
They go back seven years. And she was like, as long as it wasn't like a hate crime or like murder, she was like, you, you should be okay. And the reason why I think I'm okay on that is because before I did research, the summer before I did Reese, the previous summer before I did research, I worked with Chevron as an engineer and that was an internship.
- [102:34]
A
Okay.
- [102:35]
B
And the same thing with them, you know, when they said, hey, you gotta do a background check, I told them like, hey, I have a criminal record, you know, But I'm assuming that they had the same thing.
- [102:47]
A
Yeah.
- [102:47]
B
That it only went back seven years because I caught my case at the end of 08 like, the beginning of 2009, and I wasn't convicted until 2010. And so, you know, Chevron was 2021. You know, that was 11 years. So I'm assuming with Philip, 66, I should be good.
- [103:09]
A
Yeah.
- [103:09]
B
Which reminds me of this hilarious story that I feel like I need to tell here recently. Not. Not too long ago, I want to say, maybe seven months now. Six. Sometime this year, right? Everything seems just to be like a blur. I had to go to the DMV to renew my license or get my license. And, you know, I have my ticket. You know, they call my number, and I go up to the counter, and it's a Indian lady working, and I hand her my ticket, and she does not even say, good afternoon. How are you doing? What can I do for you? Like, none of that. She just immediately jumps into like, oh, my. She's like, why do you have so many tattoos? And she's like, looking at my arms and my. And, like, my face and my neck, right? And she was like. She's like, how are you gonna get a job? She's like, what? Like, what are you gonna do with your life? And I was like. And I don't. I mean, because you know how sometimes, like, Indians will, like, move their head when they talk. I don't know if it was like, her mood, like, that was just normal for her or if she was just, like, shaking her head like, oh, my God, you know? Discover Myself. Le Parfum by YSL Beauty. The new sensual and warm intensity enhanced by spicy vanilla bourbon. A fragrance for a man born unapologetically himself, myself, Yves Saint Laurent. Oh, such a clutch off season pickup Dave. I was worried we'd bring back the same team. I meant those blackout motorized shades. Lines.com made it crazy affordable to replace our old blinds. Hard to install. No, it's easy. I installed these and then got some from my mom. She talked to a design consultant for free and scheduled a professional measure and install. Hall of Fame Sun. They're the number one online retailer of custom window coverings in the world. Blinds.com is the goat shop.
- [105:02]
A
Up to 45% off select styles plus a free professional measure during the blinds.com year end blowout.
- [105:07]
B
Rules and restrictions may apply, but I was like, okay.
- [105:10]
A
Some people, I don't think have like a. Not having a filter isn't the word. Like, they don't have common sense.
- [105:17]
B
Yeah, no. Yeah, they don't.
- [105:19]
A
Like, they, like. I don't even. I can't even imagine. Even if you think something most people wouldn't Say something bizarre.
- [105:26]
B
Yeah, no, it was very. And I was like, yeah. Oh, okay.
- [105:30]
A
Like, right.
- [105:31]
B
Good afternoon to you, too.
- [105:32]
A
Tell me how you really feel.
- [105:34]
B
Exactly. But then I was like, I'm not gonna let this slide. No, I'm not letting it slide. I was like, well, I was like, I'm at Stanford studying electrical engineering and I'll be working as an engineer when I graduate. And she just was like, what? Like, she could not believe it, right? It was like I grew another head out or something.
- [105:54]
A
Apparently you taught her something.
- [105:55]
B
Yeah, no, she, like. And then after that, it was weird. She was. It was, oh, you have a good day, sir. And this, sir. And then I was just like, oh, that's what you needed to know about me in order to, like, value me or respect me. You know what I mean? And so here lately, I've been thinking, like, does the Stanford degree, and in particular an engineering degree from Stanford, does that now kind of erase my. My past? Does that now, you know, erase these tattoos? Am I now accepted in society? Do I now belong in society? Am I now a good person? Am I a good man now? Because I can say, hey, look at this degree that I got from Stanford. Because whenever I wear a Stanford engineering shirt, it's the same thing. Random people on campus, I don't even know, oh, hey, good morning. I'm like, oh, good morning. And I'm thinking myself, like, do I know this person? And I'm like, I've never seen them before, you know? Or it's like, you know, people will. Will. They're a whole lot more courteous. Like, I'll get more smiles. I'll get Morgan mornings. I'll get more like, oh, hi, how's your day today? And I'm just like, random person talking to me. Okay. Yeah, no, it's good. Yeah. Okay, cool. But if I don't wear it and I wear, like, I don't know, a tank top and some Chucks and, like, some shorts, you know? Now it's like. Like, people don't even want to look at me, you know? And so again, you know, I always go back to, like, does that degree now earn your respect? You know? Like, can I now, you know, sit at your table?
- [107:31]
A
Because I. Validation.
- [107:33]
B
Yeah. You know, because not only did I go to Stanford, but I majored in one of their hardest.
- [107:39]
A
Yeah.
- [107:40]
B
You know, fields. And it's like, do I need that just for that? Or, like, if I didn't have that, would you still treat me the same way? And, like, obviously not, right? Because I've Seen, you know, so I don't know, now that I'm a little older and I guess wiser, if you want to say, I do a lot more like, reflecting on things and. Yeah, and so that's like, the main thing that I've been like, chewing on lately was like, you know, does that degree.
- [108:05]
A
And I think too, something that you'll probably realize through this experience, because your experience is different than the typical, per se, you know, like, I think that you're going to go through these waves of kind of reflecting on just different interactions that you have and different. Just different points throughout this journey. You're going to reflect and kind of evaluate differently than a typical person that just went to Stanford. Yeah, but I think that that's very normal to evaluate and think about and reflect on. I also think it's important to. Because I think that it kind of. It seems like you're somebody that likes to break things down and understand and, and that's. That's a good thing. And I. I think that the further along you get in your journey, you'll start to do less of that because you'll have that understanding and you'll have a better knowledge of just, you know, your specific journey and breaking stigmas around everything. But I think that you're. One of your purposes is. Is meant to serve to break that stigma, to kind of, you know, like you said, to be there as this mentor and kind of inspiration for other people that have maybe gotten into trouble or that think that there's no hope because they have this label on them. Because at the end of the day, like, I mean, people that don't even. Haven't even necessarily, like, gotten into trouble even. I mean, as you've seen, having tattoos gives you a label and, you know, creates this look that people give you and judge you differently and, you know, by the clothes you wear, by the way you speak and everything in between. So I feel like you kind of serve the purpose in a way to show people, look, it doesn't matter where you come from, what you've done, what your background is, what you look like, what you wear, but you have the ability within yourself to be whoever you want to be.
- [110:04]
B
Yeah.
- [110:04]
A
You know, but I think that you kind of going through these different seasons of kind of sitting and reflecting on things and just being like, yeah, like, yeah, recently, that's what I've been thinking about or kind of trying to understand. I think that's very normal. I feel like almost it's way better that you do that because then you don't have this imposter syndrome completely, which is very easy to get. But I feel like it's important that you kind of self reflect and reflect on these different interactions, because even that too, I think that gives you a better understanding of how twisted our society can be, because some people, like, like I said, it's important that people even know that, you know, sometimes you don't. You. While, yes, it's good to have a voice and speak up, you don't always have to say what's on your mind. Like, it's just, it's unnecessary, it's bizarre. And, you know, for as hard as you've worked and as much as you've, you know, tried to not erase, but kind of make up for lost time.
- [111:02]
B
Yeah.
- [111:04]
A
To have somebody kind of say things like that to you, it can be a slap in the face or piss you off. And even like the card thing you were talking about, like, well, yeah, we can look back and be like, yeah, I probably shouldn't have reacted or gotten mad. I think that that's kind of. We're human.
- [111:19]
B
Yeah.
- [111:19]
A
Like, humans react sometimes and we could only learn from it, but that would piss anybody off, I think.
- [111:25]
B
Yeah.
- [111:25]
A
And it does become like a slap in the face.
- [111:27]
B
Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah. You're, you're, you're right on that. And I feel like moving forward, like, I want to help those that were, like, had the same mindset and they were in, like, the same, you know, headspace as I was when I paroled, where they think, like, nah, dude, I'm a convict. I'm, you know, tatted up. Or the, you know, to like, show them just how powerful, like, education is and how education is a way to like, find that self worth again. Right. Like, it's, it's, it's a, it's a way to kind of like, prove to yourself, right. Not just, not just society, not just others, your family, whoever. Right. But prove to yourself, like, nah, I am capable of great things. I am achieving great things. I often tell people that, you know, there's. There's parallels in a lot of things that we do as humans. For us in prison, in the gang life, it's earning a tattoo. It's, you know, working with if, you know, you have higher, if you do have, like, some structure to your organization, right. It's like climbing up those ranks, Right? Whereas, like, on Stanford campus, it's a student with an Nvidia backpack to show, like, oh, yeah, I work at Nvidia, or I did an internship at Nvidia. Right. Or a Google or Apple backpack. And, you know, in one of my classes that I'm taking, there's a student that does. That has Nvidia backpack, but he also has, like, his. His id, like his employee card, like his ID attached to the backpack. And it's like, bro, okay, we get it. Like, you're at Nvidia, okay? Like, you know what I mean? Like, all right, bro, like, cool. You know, lay off the gas. But it's the same thing, right? Like, it's. It's. It's. You know, I've seen people that were like that in prison, you know, trying to move up in ranks. And. And just because it's Stanford doesn't mean that you don't have criminals there. You know, look at Brock Turner, freaking piece of rapist. You know, you have professors, you know, scamming their friends out of $19 million.
- [113:36]
A
Yeah.
- [113:37]
B
You know, Toronto's. Look at Toronto's. They both went to prison.
- [113:41]
A
I mean, it could be anywhere in anyone. And that's. That's always the case.
- [113:45]
B
Exactly. And it's like, you know, you. You guys should be looking at them, right? Because they're committed. They're taking everybody's money. Yeah.
- [113:52]
A
It's not always the guy that's tatted up.
- [113:54]
B
Yeah, exactly. I mean, also, too, that college admissions scandal, you know, the. That's why I tell everyone, like, yeah, I got into Stanford and I didn't have to join the sailing team, you know, but it's like, you know, now that I've accomplished that, it's like, how can I now make sure that I help others out? You know, maybe they won't get into Stanford, but they'll get into Berkeley or.
- [114:14]
A
Yeah.
- [114:15]
B
You know.
- [114:16]
A
Well, I think the thing. Ucla or even if it's something as simple as just helping encourage people to break the cycle, because I think nine times out of 10, we do what's easiest and comfortable, and it's very easy to stay in a pattern that we're familiar with. It's like if you compared at one point in your life, if you compared the route that you're on now with the route that you were so familiar with, you knew you had a community, you had a group of your. Your friends, you would obviously probably choose that because that's what you were comfortable with. You already knew it, and it was the easier choice.
- [114:52]
B
Yeah.
- [114:52]
A
Everything was just right there.
- [114:54]
B
Yeah.
- [114:54]
A
So why. I think for some people, it's like, why would I start over again? Or why would I make the harder choice? And why would I make that choice if I don't even know if I'm going to have opportunity in it with the record that I have or the past that I have. So I think that even if it's just as simple as which, honestly, I don't even like to say the word simple because that's a huge. Breaking a cycle on its own is a huge accomplishment. So I think even helping someone do that is a first huge step that a lot of people might need that push and that motivation, and they might not even know that that's a possibility or something that people might think, oh, this is just my life. Like, there's no getting out of it.
- [115:33]
B
Yeah, that's very true. I've seen that time and time again. Even with some of my friends that started out, like, went to Fresno City, just fell right back in.
- [115:43]
A
Yeah.
- [115:44]
B
Because they didn't. They didn't pull themselves away from that.
- [115:46]
A
Right.
- [115:47]
B
You know, they were still. They were straddling the fence, you know, and you can't do that. You cannot straddle the fence. It's. It never ends well because you're gonna. On one. On actually on both sides. You're gonna have your. Your doubters. You're gonna have someone that doesn't fully, like, trust you because they're like, ah, bro, you're still doing. You're still going to school. And then people over here, like, man, you're still hanging out with gang members, like, and in the mix, and they're rolling around with guns. And if they get arrested, you're going to get arrested because you're already validated. You know, it's like you need to distance yourself from that, you know, so. But again, it'd be. It's the easy thing. It's the.
- [116:28]
A
It's what you know.
- [116:29]
B
Yeah, exactly. It's what you've done your whole life.
- [116:31]
A
Right. And when are you set to graduate?
- [116:33]
B
So I will be done after the winter quarter, which ends like March 14th.
- [116:38]
A
Okay.
- [116:38]
B
And I don't walk until. I don't do the celebration until like the middle of June.
- [116:44]
A
Okay. But this year, this. Yeah, this coming.
- [116:48]
B
Yeah. Upcoming year 2020.
- [116:49]
A
That is so exciting. Congratulations. That's really amazing. That's incredible.
- [116:53]
B
Yep.
- [116:53]
A
That's a lot of hard work. And. And obviously you're smart as.
- [116:57]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [116:59]
A
Because a lot of people. I couldn't. I couldn't do it. And that's the other thing is, like, that just goes to show too, like, that doesn't what you. The decisions you make, even if they might not be the best ones. That doesn't Define someone's knowledge or, you know, wisdom.
- [117:13]
B
Yeah. Very true. Very true. Yeah.
- [117:17]
A
You should be proud.
- [117:18]
B
No.
- [117:18]
A
Congratulations.
- [117:19]
B
Thank you. Thank you. I am. I. But it. It. It's just now hitting me.
- [117:23]
A
Yeah.
- [117:24]
B
You know, because I've always had my blinders on.
- [117:26]
A
Right.
- [117:26]
B
Where it was just like, school, school, school, school, school.
- [117:28]
A
And there will be waves, like you said. There will be times where you're just, like, going forward, not really thinking, and there's going to be times where you probably reflect or, like, when you have those nightmares. I feel like sometimes things like that can ever so slightly bring everything to hold or kind of make you reflect back on not so positive thoughts. But I think it's more so about, like I said before, accepting it and facing it, but then getting yourself back on track and be like, all right, yes, that's part of my life and journey. But I'm here now, and we're just going to keep moving forward and to. And to give yourself credit where credit's deserved, because, you know, everybody can look back at times in their lives when they've hurt somebody, you know, obviously some worse than others, but the only thing we can do is. Is move forward and learn from those things and do our best to be the best version of ourselves.
- [118:21]
B
Yeah, true.
- [118:22]
A
And you're on. You've been on that path.
- [118:24]
B
Yeah.
- [118:26]
A
And that's something to be really, really proud of. And there's a lot of people that you're going to help, for sure. I mean, you truly are an inspiration. And I feel like there's not many people that have the strength and willpower to break a cycle and get out of that lifestyle.
- [118:40]
B
Yeah. Thank you.
- [118:42]
A
And I think, too, like, there's a lot of, like, going back to what you said about the ego thing, there's a lot of people that aren't willing to let go of that ego. Like, they want to be seen as just this strong, don't fuck with me. Guy or girl, even.
- [118:58]
B
Yeah.
- [118:58]
A
You know, they don't want to let that go because they might have that fear of. It makes them look weak.
- [119:04]
B
Yeah.
- [119:05]
A
And I feel like you also go to show that getting yourself on the right path and getting an education doesn't make you weak. It's actually the opposite.
- [119:14]
B
Yeah. It's been the hardest thing I've had to do.
- [119:17]
A
Right.
- [119:17]
B
And it's been tougher in some ways in solitary confinement, you know, fighting it.
- [119:23]
A
Pushes you in a completely different way. And one that you're not used to at all.
- [119:27]
B
Yeah. And one that's like, there's almost More, it seems never ending. Yeah, true, true.
- [119:33]
A
You know, like, because you value it so much more.
- [119:35]
B
Yeah.
- [119:35]
A
That it's almost like the pressure is even more intense.
- [119:38]
B
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, it's been. It's been super, super tough, but. And I don't want to get what they call a senioritis, where I'm like, oh, I just need to graduate because I already have this job lined up.
- [119:51]
A
Yeah.
- [119:52]
B
But I'm kind of like, I don't, you know, just finish, you know, so.
- [119:57]
A
You're so close.
- [119:58]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [119:59]
A
But no, that's really amazing. And, you know, like I said before, I think your whole story is incredible for so many different reasons, and I think it's really one that goes to just break the stigma. And like I said as well before, it's something where it. I think it gives people a very real inside look on. On the life that you had, like being in prison and being in the gangs and stuff like that. But at the same time, it shows that at the end of the day, you're. You're just a. A guy that's trying to make his life better. Like, turn it around.
- [120:34]
B
Yeah.
- [120:35]
A
Not only for yourself, but your family and.
- [120:37]
B
Yeah.
- [120:37]
A
And I think that sometimes that's the most rewarding thing that we can do for ourselves.
- [120:42]
B
Yeah, no, for sure. For sure. And I think sometimes it's. I don't know. I mean, it's. It's very much needed if you, in a way, need to, like, prove to yourself or show to yourself, like, you are capable of. Of great things. Right. Like, yeah, you said it's a long journey. It's a. It's super challenging. But if, you know, like, at the end of the day when you finish, it's. It's something that will then start to just break that cycle and change your mindset on how you view yourself. Right. Like, I no longer see myself as this gang member criminal that, you know, there's some times where, like, you know, some of my friends will joke around. They'll be, oh, hey, what's up, Looney?
- [121:25]
A
And I'm like, no, I'm trying to let him go. Yeah.
- [121:28]
B
But they're like, messing around, you know, and. Or like, there's some times where I'll see like, an old homeboy that just got out and, you know, he's not really familiar with what I'm doing. Oh, hey, Looney. And I'm. And it doesn't. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't bother.
- [121:40]
A
Me, but I'm like, I think that there's a point A healthy point in your life where you're able to just let things like that just like.
- [121:47]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [121:48]
A
Roll off the chest. You know what I mean? You're like, yeah, it's there. It's part of who I was. It's funny, like, you know, in its own way.
- [121:55]
B
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I mean, I have it tattooed on me, so it's like.
- [121:59]
A
Right.
- [122:00]
B
It's never gonna go away, you know, but. And I'm able to do that now because I've, you know, kind of proved it to myself that I was capable of great things to change and. And. And. And, you know, move forward in a better way with my life, you know, so. So I'm just excited to see where life takes me after this.
- [122:20]
A
Right. And I always tell people, I mean, you know, it's just the beginning and it's true, like, even no matter how old you are, where you are in life.
- [122:28]
B
Yeah.
- [122:28]
A
I think we're constantly evolving, we're constantly changing, and we always have. We can always give ourselves as many opportunities as we want, you know, And I feel like while. Yes. The. The schooling aspect has been years long.
- [122:42]
B
Yeah.
- [122:42]
A
It's like that. That was one chapter, and now you're on to a next chapter.
- [122:45]
B
Yeah.
- [122:46]
A
So it's like. It's constantly this, like, new beginning, which is, I feel, like, the most exciting thing, because we never know what's in store. And you can make it as good or as bad as you want it to be.
- [122:55]
B
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And speaking of chapters, that's what I'm working on as a memoir.
- [123:00]
A
Really?
- [123:01]
B
Yeah.
- [123:01]
A
Oh, that's amazing. I love that.
- [123:03]
B
Yeah.
- [123:03]
A
So that's great.
- [123:04]
B
Yeah. That's in the works right now. I will start piecing it together a lot better. Probably like, January. I'm just working, like, on the structure. I.
- [123:14]
A
Right.
- [123:15]
B
I. Because of networking connections, I have a book coach now, and she's. She's. She knows her stuff, so that's incredible. Yeah. So she's. She's helping me put that together.
- [123:24]
A
Yes.
- [123:25]
B
Yeah.
- [123:25]
A
So that's awesome. Yeah. And I think, too, that the more ways that you can share your story and your experience, the better. You know, I think that. And I say this also, that there's. There's a lot of things, you know, documentaries and. And podcasts, and I feel like a lot of times it's like these. What we were saying before, these, like, big, extravagant stories that just pull you in, but I feel like the more real and authentic people that are just like, your everyday people that are able to get their story out there and share it. I think those are the stories that other people can really relate to the most because it feels like, oh, like I'm just like this person. It's almost like listening to a friend or it just is very relatable. And I think it gives people a lot of courage and wisdom. And even if their story is completely opposite of yours, I think it gives them the courage to own up to their own journeys and their own stories and be like, you know, what if they can confidently, you know, share their story and share who they are without, you know, doubting themselves and without like, disappointment in yourself, like, you know what I mean? Like being able to confidently say, like, this is me, this is my story, but this is where I am now. I think that shows other people that they could do that as well and they could use their voice.
- [124:46]
B
Yeah.
- [124:46]
A
And it doesn't, it doesn't matter how different someone's background is. You know, it could be something completely opposite and completely different, but it makes them feel like, wow, like if he could speak up and feel like he can voice what he's been through and where he is, like, I could do the same. You know, I shouldn't hold back and I shouldn't feel negative about myself or who I am or who I was.
- [125:07]
B
Yeah, yeah. And also to lets them know that it is achievable.
- [125:11]
A
Yeah, for sure. You can do anything you set your mind to. And it seems it doesn't always seem possible because I think that as humans, we like to. It's easier to kind of gravitate towards that. The bad and the negative.
- [125:23]
B
Yeah.
- [125:24]
A
But I think if we can push ourselves to go more towards the positive and realize that we are fully in control of our reality, the more great things we can do and accomplish.
- [125:34]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [125:35]
A
Was there anything else you wanted to add? Did you get it?
- [125:37]
B
No, that's pretty much it.
- [125:38]
A
You did. You really did amazing. I enjoyed this so much. You should be so proud of yourself. It was incredible. It's always like these episodes that I'm like, I love it, cuz it's so different. And I feel like, you know, when I started the show, I always said, like, I want the show to have so much diversity and depth to it. And I love when like, like I said, when these hardcore men reach out to me and they're like, I'm ready to share my story, I'm like, yes, bring it on.
- [125:59]
B
Yeah.
- [125:59]
A
Because it really does. It breaks that mindset that people have. Or like, like I said, my favorite thing is when my cats come and they sit on these guys laps and it's like, you know, like, yes, these, these men are here to talk and share because like, and that's the thing too, even for, like, even for men. I think so many men are afraid to speak up and share their stories. And I think that it's really important that men know that, that it doesn't make them a. Or weak to Priscilla to share, you know, their life story.
- [126:30]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. If she bothers you.
- [126:34]
A
But you know what I mean? Like, I feel like a lot of guys, they just like, they're. I feel like society makes men feel like, oh, you gotta be like this hardcore guy. Like, don't share your emotions. Don't. Don't, you know, get vulnerable.
- [126:47]
B
Yeah, yeah, but it's important. Pick yourself up by the bootstrap, right?
- [126:51]
A
Yeah. No, and you. And that's how you were raised. So it's. I think it's even more, you know, incredible that you're able to sit here and just be like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna own it. And I'm, you know, I'm proud of who I am today and as you should be. So.
- [127:05]
B
Thank you.
- [127:05]
A
Yeah, thank you. You did such a great job.
- [127:07]
B
Thank you.
- [127:08]
A
Really, I loved it.