I Dated My Predator

Summary

Podcast Summary: "I Dated My Predator"

Podcast: We're All Insane
Host: Devorah Roloff
Guest: Jess
Date: August 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and courageous episode, Jess recounts her harrowing journey through childhood trauma, unstable family dynamics, mental health struggles, and, ultimately, her experience of being groomed and abused by an adult predator she met while in a residential treatment facility as a teenager. The discussion unfolds organically, touching on the complexities of grooming, failed institutional safeguards, the failures of the justice system, and her ongoing process of healing. Jess's story illustrates not only the trauma itself but also the aftermath: the guilt, confusion, destructive behaviors, and eventual reclamation of her narrative.

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Major Themes & Key Discussion Points

1. Early Family Dynamics and Childhood Trauma

Timestamps: [00:00 – 04:22]

• Custody, instability, and parentification: Jess describes her parents’ negative communication, using her as a go-between and instilling an early sense of "being a burden".
• Desire for belonging: Feeling like an outsider in both parents’ new families, lacking a sibling who switched houses with her.
• First major trauma: At age 7, Jess’s aunt died by suicide, a formative, destabilizing loss. Therapy began then ("I would play the board game Trouble, I remember with my therapist." - Jess [04:22]).
• Further losses: The death of her grandmother, with whom she was very close.

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2. Emerging Mental Health Struggles

[04:22 – 13:14]

• Parental addiction and neglect: Dad’s alcoholism escalates, impacting the family. Jess feels both responsible for siblings and blamed for dysfunction.
• Suicidality and self-harm: Following her first relationship breakup at 13, Jess resorts to self-harming and attempts suicide multiple times over the next decade.
• Institutionalization: Over 13 mental health facility stays, where she is frequently misdiagnosed ("I feel like 9 times out of 10 females get diagnosed with bipolar so quick and men get diagnosed with ADHD." - Jess [08:38]).
• Feelings of not belonging or not supposed to be here: Upon learning of her mother's prior abortion ("It made me feel like I wasn't supposed to be here, like somebody else was supposed to be here." - Jess [12:21]).

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3. Seeking Attention and Beginning Vulnerability

[13:14 – 14:40]

• Compulsive lying for care: Jess admits to making up stories to get attention, a classic symptom of abuse.
• First major sexual trauma: Describes being sexually abused by two boys during a night out while extremely high, followed by a serious suicide attempt.

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4. Institutional Betrayal & Introduction to the Predator

[21:36 – 31:01]

• Group home experience: Sent to a facility called "the New Foundation". Learns about staffer "Renny" who had appeared on MTV’s "A Shot at Love with Tila Tequila," and was well-known among residents.

• Initial contact: Renny, 28, begins to text with Jess (15) post-discharge, masking predatory grooming as mentorship ("She said, ‘Hurry up and have some birthdays.’" - Jess [26:20]).

• Early grooming behaviors: Renny provides alcohol, introduces explicit movies with inappropriate themes (e.g., parallels their relationship to Mary Kay Letourneau), and quickly escalates physical intimacy.

  “I just laid there and let him do it … I didn't realize that, like, technically that kind of was sexual abuse. Not even kind of. But that was really difficult to go through alone.” — Jess [14:10]

• Manipulation through media: Renny draws parallels between their relationship and those from teacher-student predatory movies, further normalizing the abuse.

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5. Escalation, Isolation, and Control

[31:01 – 38:48]

• Rapid escalation: Alcohol-fueled sleepovers, secretive sex, and more grooming by Renny.
• Predator’s manipulations: Renny grooms by introducing taboo subjects nonchalantly (e.g., fingering stories, explicit movies).
• Isolation from family/friends: Jess begins to lash out and distance herself, even lashing out violently at her mother ("…I started hitting my mother while she was driving. This woman is my everything now." - Jess [37:46]).

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6. Abuse Aftermath and Institutional/Justice System Failure

[38:48 – 46:50]

• Cycle of violence and instability: Ongoing behavioral problems, family conflict, repeated stints in group homes and hospitals, and deepening dependency on her abuser.

• Institutional indifference: Facility staff either miss or ignore boundary violations and signs of grooming. Even after a police investigation, Renny is allowed to say they’re "waiting until she's 18."

  "…she admitted we had romantic feelings for each other and were waiting until I was 18 to be physical. Which is crazy to me now, like, because it’s just so obvious that she’s grooming me." — Jess [47:09]

• Mother’s powerlessness: Despite reporting, nothing changes; eventually, Jess moves in with Renny at age 16.

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7. The Relationship’s Toxic Reality

[46:50 – 59:57]

• Adultification and trauma bonding: Jess feels compelled to stay, longing for the unconditional care she lacked in childhood.
• Abuser’s own trauma: Renny’s family history of sexual abuse is mentioned; Jess rejects it as justification for her actions.
• Alcohol-fueled chaos & violence: Domestic violence incidents, police interventions. Renny’s repeated push–pull tactics aggravate Jess’s trauma and self-loathing.

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8. Breakup, Further Trauma, and Persistent Aftershocks

[59:57 – 69:05]

• Sudden breakup and devastation: Jess is replaced by "Ashley" and spirals into alcoholism, more suicide attempts, ruined friendships, and a stint in jail.
• Pattern of self-blame and self-destruction: Jess’s symptoms intensify before she eventually finds some measure of safety and support.
• Start of healing: New, supportive relationships (with ex-partner “Lynn” and others) help begin Jess’s long process of recovery.

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9. Adulthood, Healing, and Reporting the Crime

[68:48 – 82:55]

• Ten years later: Jess, now a wife and mother, tracks down Renny for closure, only to find Renny now self-diagnosing as autistic and blaming her neurodiversity for her actions—something Jess finds both offensive and irrelevant ("…autism and pedophilia have no correlation." - Jess [69:41]).
• Reporting to police decades later: Reaches out to police multiple times but faces indifference, investigative apathy, and legal inaction ("…grooming isn’t illegal in the state of Arizona." - Detective [82:27]).
• Finding some resolution: Participation in a documentary and therapy help Jess process what happened: "…telling my story for the first time...having someone want to hear it and tell me that’s so messed up...validated it so much." — Jess [72:10]

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10. Systemic Failures, Breaking Cycles, and Hope

[82:55 – episode end]

• Broken systems & cover-ups: Jess describes issues with foster care, mental health systems, police, and court handling of her case.
• Legal retaliation: Jess receives a restraining order from her abuser, but feels empowered by confronting her in court, especially with her mother present.
• Importance of sharing the unvarnished truth: She stresses that honesty about one’s darkest moments (including violence or self-destruction) is vital for healing, and lets others know they're not alone in their shame.
• Advice and advocacy: Insights for parents, survivors, and society — the need for vigilance, ongoing conversations with kids, skepticism about authority figures, and the healing power of sharing and community.
• Final takeaways: Encouragement for others to seek support, break cycles, and never judge a book by its cover ("It can happen to anybody, you know...It doesn't have to be just people that had horrible childhoods..." - Devorah [97:10]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On grooming:
  "Hurry up and have some birthdays." — Renny, as quoted by Jess to signal inappropriate interest [26:20]

• On institutional failure:
  "I needed to get help, and I'm still just only thinking about this adult..." — Jess [43:18]

• On survivor shame:
  "I don't think people would have a lot of courage talking about the worst thing they ever did in their life on such a public platform." — Jess [37:46]

• On healing:
  "The investigation was the hardest thing I've ever done. But I'm so happy I did it because I was able to...process everything." — Jess [89:59]

• On accountability and honesty:
  "Taking accountability is huge...it shows how deep the grooming went and just how good she had me." — Jess [94:46]

• On the abuser's refusal to take responsibility:
  "Picture this, a mentally ill teenager abusing a disabled autistic adult..." — Renny (in a retaliatory online post, as read by Jess) [78:57]

• On the pain of realizing she wasn't alone or "special":
  "I was grieving our entire relationship...I felt in that moment like she never loved me…like I wasn't special, like, in that way...it sounds so weird." — Jess [76:37]

• On lasting impact:
  "If something like this happened to me before, I would have slit my wrist...I'm extremely proud of myself, because...I reacted so well." — Jess [81:17]

• Advice for parents:
  "Do not let your kids text with an adult. There's no reason why they should be texting with an adult." — Jess [99:02]

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Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction and Childhood Background: [00:00 – 04:22]
• Family Trauma and First Therapy: [04:22 – 08:42]
• Early Mental Health & Suicide Attempts: [08:42 – 13:14]
• Sexual Abuse by Peers and Suicide Attempt: [13:14 – 14:40]
• Meeting Abuser in Group Home: [21:36 – 26:41]
• First Date with Predator (Details): [28:13 – 31:01]
• Grooming Details & Psychological Manipulation: [31:01 – 38:48]
• Cycle of Violence, Removal, and Systemic Failure: [38:48 – 46:50]
• Legal Investigation and Case Dismissal: [69:20 – 82:55]
• Court, Restraining Order, and Healing Insights: [83:25 – 96:20]
• Advocacy and Final Reflection: [97:10 – episode end]

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Tone & Atmosphere

Jess’s storytelling is raw, unfiltered, often painfully self-reflective, and peppered with humor, honesty, and a genuine desire to educate and break down stigma. The conversation remains empathetic, validating, and informative throughout, with both Jess and Devorah emphasizing the complexities of trauma and healing.

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Final Reflections

Jess’s story is a testament to survival and a bold indictment of systems meant to protect vulnerable youth. It calls for increased vigilance, reform, and openness around topics still deeply stigmatized—sexual abuse, institutional betrayal, and the complexity of healing after trauma. The episode underscores the healing power of sharing, community, and unflinching honesty.

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For Survivors and Listeners:
If you or someone you know has experienced abuse or needs support, reach out to trusted professionals or local organizations. Sharing your truth—even when the system fails—can be an act of reclamation.

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To share your story on the podcast, contact:
[e-mail]
or fill out the form: Share Your Story

Transcript

[A]

Hi, my name is Jess. I'm going to start from my childhood and go from there. My parents dated for a little bit, but they never were really actually together. They broke up when I was a baby and I started switching houses around that time. The custody agreement was I was at my mom's during the week, and then every Thursday I would go to my dad's, and then every other weekend I would stay Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, the whole weekend. And then my dad had to do all the driving. So that was in the court agreement. Unfortunately, my parents didn't communicate with each other. They only communicated through me and it was really negative. So that made me feel like a burden from a really young age. And my dad, he would talk negatively around about my mom around me, and that really sucked as well. And constantly guilt tripping about the driving. Tell your mom she needs to help out with the driving. Well, tell your dad it's in the court agreement and that's what he needs to do. If he has a problem with it, he needs to go to court. And just like little things like being seven years old and forgetting my backpack at home when he's taking me to school, that's 24, five minutes away. And then like getting guilt tripped for that because it's a long drive. And just like always, just really feeling like a burden. From a young age, my dad got remarried to a woman named Stephanie. And she was just in close in age to me as she was my dad. Very like blonde, fake boobs, all that.

[B]

All that.

[A]

Yeah, she. Well, she.

[B]

That kind.

[A]

Yeah, she. I didn't like her when I heard her call my mom white trash. That's when it started. And I was so young. I remember telling her like, I need, needed to talk to her about something. And then she like pulled me in my room and then I was like, never mind. And I like hid under the bed until she like got it out of me. And I was like, I don't like it when you talk about my mom. But they just never got along either. My mom got remarried to my stepdad. They're still together to this day. He's an awesome man. And then they had my little sister together. I also have an older sister on my mom's side who my mom had with another man when she was in high school. So I have an older sister on my mom's side. And then my mom and stepdad had my little sister Sadie. And then my dad also had two little boys, Nick and Jack. And so I have two brothers on my dad's side. So I really wish I had like a sibling that switched houses with me. I feel like it would have made it a lot less awkward, but I just like never felt fully part of a family. I just felt like I was stepping in to another family each time and that was really tough. I spent a lot of time at my grandparents growing up as well, so I kind of was just like thrown around. I was at my mom's house, my dad's house, my grandparents house. And then every summer I would go to Washington state for three to six weeks at a time to stay with my grandparents there. The first thing that happened in my life that I think affected me more than I realized until recently was my mom's sister killed herself. She shot herself in the head. When I was seven, the police came to our house to tell us because my mom didn't want to give them my grandparents address over the phone, not knowing if they were actually cops. And I remember them coming over. I was only 7. And my mom asked them if I was allowed to stay downstairs and they said no. And so I went upstairs and then me and my older sister could hear my mom crying. And we called my grandma. We were scared. My grandma knew right then. And then my mom came upstairs and said aunt Jenny died. And we said how? And she's like, she just died. And so then her funeral came around like a week later and she had two kids unfortunately. And I was just confused. And I said to them like, how did she die? And then very bluntly, my cousin said she took a gun and shot her, shot her head off. And it was just extremely like confusing to me at that age.

[B]

Yeah, even the news of hearing or being told someone that, you know, or a family member has died, I think that that's really. I can't explain what it does, but it's something that. Because like I even have experience with it and it's just kind of, it's a very weird, like we're not taught how to process that. And it's. I almost feel like if a child loses anyone like a grandparent or a parent, they probably should be in some form of therapy just to kind of work through it because it is this weird kind of tragedy and trauma that sticks with you because you just don't know how or why. And I think that's our first introduction really to death. And it's scary.

[A]

Yeah, it's funny that you say that because that was actually when I started getting therapy for the first time when I told my mom Aunt Jenny didn't love us. Because she left. That's when my mom decided to put me into therapy. I would play the board game Trouble, I remember with my therapist. I think it's cool how they do that with kids to help them talk. And then I think the next thing was my grandma, my maternal grandmother. I was extremely close with my maternal grandparents. Like I said, I was at their house a lot. They would take me to school every morning. Yeah, she passed away, unfortunately, in the hospital. And she was pretty young. I'm pretty sure she was, like, in her late 50s. And I was laying on her like I knew that she was dying, and I chose to stay there with her. But that was just, you know, that was hard, too, because I was my, like, you know, my grandma. The next thing would be on my 13th birthday. So basically, my dad and Stephanie, they. They were together, I think, over a decade, but I think around, like, 12 years, my dad's alcoholism just started getting really bad. And he also takes Xanax at the same time, so he would often be just, like, passed out with his eyes open. I could tell that she tried to work it out with him for a long time. I do have respect for her. I think she's a good mom to my. My little brothers. And I honestly feel kind of bad for how terrible I was to her at that age. But. But, yeah, he was. He was struggling with alcoholism, and they ended up getting a divorce. And after the divorce, it just, like, got so much worse. On my 13th birthday, my dad picked me up from my mom's house, and I ended up having to not. Well, not jump, but I ended up having to open the door while he was driving and getting out. Luckily, we were in, like, a parking lot, like, of an outdoor mall, so it wasn't too crazy. But on my birthday, like, had to run into petsmart and, like, call my mom crying to come pick me up. It was really weird because it was the first time I ever saw my parents together in person. I was always like, you know, meet up at a gas station and pass the kid over or, like, drop them off in front of their house type thing. So that was interesting. And I was really proud of my mom because she was, like, telling my dad that, like, she cares about him, so she wants him to get his shit together. This memory is horrible. But it got so bad that my little brother Nico woke up one night, and this was when Stephanie and him had already separated. So it was just me there and my two little brothers and my dad and Nico, he was the older one. He was like, maybe, like, Seven or eight. But he woke up really sick. And I could tell that, like, he was really sick. He was, like, burning up. I took his temperature. It was like, 102. And, you know, my dad's passed out on the couch. And so I, like, tried to get my dad's attention, like, dad, he's sick. And Nico said while crying, daddy, why won't you help me? And he was just like. Like, yelling that at him. And it was just like, something I'll never forget. So then I call Stephanie and let her know what's happening. And after that, my dad and his family, who are also alcoholics, say that I'm going to get his kids taken away from him. And it was extremely frustrating because it's like, I'm the person that takes them on drives to get them out of the house and, like, buys them slushies and, like, tries to get them to, like, have a good day instead of being around that. And then just to be told that I'm the reason why, like, he can't, like. Like, why would you tell that to Stephanie? You know how hard Stephanie is on him. Like, blah, blah, blah. All I wanted was to just make sure that they were okay. And, I mean, I guess I was supposed to let him be sick and not have any parental help because then my dad wouldn't look like a bad guy. And it often was like that. Just, like, guilt tripping and things are my fault. Anytime I would try to talk to my dad about anything, it was always like, why do you want drama? Like, why can't we just be good? I actually just want to connect and, like, process these things so we can be closer and get through things together. But for some reason, he just, like, can't do that. So, yeah, that was really hard, like, seeing my brothers like that. And unfortunately, because of me starting to go through mental health issues, Stephanie decided to not let me see my brothers. I wasn't even allowed at my dad's house anymore. And that I got so angry at her because I just, like. Like, I said, like, I felt like I was the one that was taking care of them. In hindsight, I can see why she made that choice at the time, but it just made me so mad, and I said some terrible things to her that I regret.

[B]

So you ended up just staying, living and staying with your mom?

[A]

No, it was. I could only go to my dad's when Nico and Jack were at their mom's house. Okay. Yeah. And, like, even there was a time I was living with my dad, so I would have to go like stay at a friend's house while they came over. It made me so angry. Then when I was 15, no, I was a 13, I was in middle school, like going into eighth grade, and I got my first like real boyfriend. Like before that, you know, it's just like kissing. But this was like. I mean, not like real, but like I had. We. We were intimate. It was like my first intimate relationship. And I don't know what it was, but the breakup, for some reason, like I felt like I was going to die. Like I started self harming, I started cutting myself, which I did for like over 10 years. And I got like suicidal. It was so hard that my mom moved me like across the state to get away from him because, you know, I was like smoking cigarettes with him and having sex. And my mom like didn't want to put me on birth control because she felt like it was giving me like a pass to have sex. She didn't want me to be having sex. So yeah, that breakup was extremely hard. And then I realized, like, maybe not at the time, but I had like abandonment issues that were like extreme. So I moved to Anthem, Arizona. It's like really far north compared to like Phoenix. And so I had to start freshman year not knowing anybody, which really sucked. When we moved into that house within the first week before I even started freshman year, I tried to kill myself for the first time. I took like maybe like 20 or 30 extra strength Tylenols. And I remember I was laying in my room watching Teen Mom. And what's funny is the hospital found out what time I took the pills because of. I said, oh, this episode was on. And then I just laid there and waited and waited. And then after like an hour, I just got scared and I was grounded. So I didn't have a cell phone and we just moved into the house. So there was a home phone. It was like home phone time of life. And so I was like, shit, like I don't want to die right now and I'm scared and I don't know what to do. So I walked over to the neighbor's house and knocked on the door and like told them. And luckily the guy was so nice, he like came into my house, called 911 and his wife was there too. And they were just like sitting with me in the hallway while I was just sitting there, like really numb. But they were actually like really sweet and supportive of me. Like after that, going forward, forward, which was really sweet. So that was my first mental health stay. I ended up staying in over 13 mental institutions from the age of like 14, I would say all the way till like 22. As a kid it was really easy to be put in there because like if you self harm, your parents can put you in there easily. If they take you to the hospital and you hurt yourself, they, they're going to 5150 you. And so it was just like, it wasn't helping. Like anytime that I got put in these places, like they put you in this little like closet office room with like a psychiatrist. They talk to you for five minutes and then they diagnose you with bipolar. And I feel like 9 times out of 10 females get diagnosed with bipolar so quick and men get diagnosed with adhd. And I come to find out I had undiagnosed ADHD and just fucking trauma like that. I needed, I needed support and help. I was being neglected. It wasn't like, I was just like bipolar. That wasn't all of it. But yeah, mental hospitals were really hard. It, it was just difficult just being thrown in there so much. But you know, I get where my mom was coming from because she was terrified after the pill suicide attempt. It was really strange. I, I like was pretending to sleep in the hospital bed, like when I was in the emergency room and my mom and dad were there, which is always really weird, and I was pretending to sleep and for some reason my dad was like whispering something to my mom like across the bed and he said, abortion. Right, like the abortion. Like that happened, right, that like the abortion. And she, I can't. Like she was like, yeah. And I was like confused. So I ended up like talking about it with my mom later. And she told me that right before she got pregnant with me she had an abortion. And I'm pro choice. Like I, that was her choice. She probably couldn't have supported a baby at that time, whatever. She ended up having me, so she made it work. But at that time it made me feel like I wasn't supposed to be here, like somebody else was supposed to be here. And that was a really crappy feeling. And I, I brought that up to my mom recently and she forgot about it, but she was like, I don't know why he brought that up because he's fucking weird. Like, I have no idea. I don't know if it was because like I was like struggling so much. Like, I have no idea.

[B]

Yeah, it seems random.

[A]

Yeah, extremely. So around this time, I started lying for attention. As a mom, I recently read that like if kids lie for attention often, especially about really big things. It's a huge sign of abuse. And, like, I remember with my first breakup, like, I told him I was, like, sick, but, like, didn't tell him what it was like. And, like, I just, like, would often do stuff like that. And I think it was because, like, psychologically, I just wanted my dad to give a fuck about me. And no matter what I did, like, he wouldn't. So there was, like, one day in school, I hated school so much. Like, sitting with undiagnosed ADHD so bad in, like, a quiet classroom was so hard. And so I went to the bathroom, and I just randomly got this dumb, impulsive thought, and I texted my mom, and I was like, some guy just came in the bathroom and, like, tried to touch me. And I just expected her to come pick me up. And she called 91 1, and the entire school got locked down. To this day, like, people talk about the lockdown, but they don't know, like, it was me. They remember the lockdown where they were looking for someone with purple vans. Because I just. They asked me what he was wearing. I just made some shit up. I had to go downtown and talk to a detective. He knew right away I was lying. And he talked to me for a bit, and then he pulled my mom into the room and he told her, like, I think she's lying. And my mom started crying, and she told him about my dad situation and whatnot. And my mom wasn't mad at me. She more was so sad that, like, she felt like I needed to do that. Unfortunately, very shortly after this, I'd say probably six months later, I had a crush on this kid in my art class. His name was Zach. And he invited me to go out with, like, hang out with him and his friend Cody. And I knew Cody, too, so I was like, sure. So they lived, like, a good drive away, like, maybe 10 miles, but there's, like, a gate in between their town and Anthem, where I was living. And there's, like a shortcut if you cut through the gate. But they picked me up when they dropped me back off. They dropped me off at the gate, and I had to walk home in the middle of the night. But while I was there, I smoked weed for the first time. And I'm a stoner now, but, like, I totally believe in, like, greening out. Like, I greened out. I took, like, three bong rips for the first time I've ever smoking. And I remember Cody didn't smoke. Cody was like, I don't like weed. It makes me anxious. And I remember saying, like. And feeling like I was going into different dimensions. And, like, I said that out loud. And Cody said, this is why I don't smoke. And he was just kind of, like, making fun of me, which made me more anxious. But it also shows that he knew I was messed up. After that, we go into Zach's bedroom, and I'm just, like, laying there and I'm so anxious, and I just feel frozen. And then all of a sudden, like, Zach grabs my hand and puts it on his dick. And I just lay there and I just let him do it. And I don't know why I didn't say no or yell or scream or try to leave, but I just felt, like, so frozen in time. Especially, like, being so high. I mean, I smoke all the time, and I. I don't think it wasn't weed, but, like, it, like, you know, when you take. I don't know if you know, but, like, if you take, like, a lot of edibles, like, you can seriously, like, hallucinate. But it was terrifying. So he ends up, like, having sex with me right next to Cody. And then Cody starts doing it, too. He even. Zach even put himself in my. In my ass. And I had never done anything like that. I had barely even had sex. I only had sex with my first boyfriend. And he said out loud what he was doing to Cody. And Cody said, I want to, too. And I just laid there. And then after they high fived and they told me to go pee so I didn't get pregnant because that's how young we were, and stupid. And then after that, they just told me to get in their truck and they drove me to the gate and made me walk home. And it was horrible. I didn't realize what happened, and I didn't want to tell anyone because I thought it was my fault. I smoked weed. I shouldn't have. I wasn't allowed to do that. I snuck out. Like, there was so many things. I felt like it was my fault. And I didn't realize that, like, technically that kind of was sexual abuse. Not even kind of. But that was really difficult to go through alone. So shortly after that, this was my most serious suicide attempt. It was not a cry for help. I went in my bathroom and I. I thought about this for a really long time. And I turned, like, plugged in my blow dryer and I put it in the bathtub with me. And it was extremely strange because I thought as soon as it hit the water, like, I would get electrocuted and die. But that's not what happened. It was, like, under the water and, like, literally blowing water through it. Like, a blow dryer would be underwater. And then I put it up to my chest, and I was, like, confused. Like, why the fuck isn't this working? And then I pulled it out of the water, and that's when it electrocuted me. And I just was like this. Luckily, the emergency switch turned it off, and I was just. I was more numb in that moment than I've ever been in my entire life. Like, I was so numb. And probably like a few days later, I actually had a doctor's appointment. And because of my history, I had to take, like, like, little, like, quizzes, basically, that, like, rate my mental health for the doctor. And she went over it with my mom, and, like, they asked me a question, and for some reason, I just broke down and, like, I told them what I did. And then again, another mental hospital. And, I mean, I was in so many. Like, I can't even, like, remember, like, specific times because they all just like, morphed together. So my mom ended up. I had. I had a winter trip to Washington planned because I would go there every summer, but I had a winter one, and I always wanted to go there in the winter. And, like, we were planning on, like, going to Mountain Rainier and, like, playing in the snow and, like, all of that. I was so excited. And I was like, this is just what I need. Like. Cause I'm so depressed. And then all of a sudden, one day, it's, like, near. It's like two weeks before Christmas. And I'm going there over Christmas, and my mom takes me to Scottsdale Fashion Square. It's like, one of the nicest malls. And she's buying me a lot of stuff. Like, a lot. I'm like, okay. Like, this is cool. She spends, like two or three hundred dollars on me. It's like a holiday. And then we go to Cheesecake Factory, and she wanted me to sit on the inside of the booth. Like, so she's on this side where you escape. And she's like, I. Like, I'm on this side. I'm like, okay, like, whatever. And we meet up with my Aunt Joy, which also is weird. I was like, that's random. Okay. So then during dinner, my mom just, like, whips out this brochure and she's like, jess, you're going to this residential treatment center. Like, this one's long term. It's going to really help you. And I was like, no, I don't want to go there. And then she's like, you're going. And I'm like, okay, like after my Washington trip. And she's like, no, like you're going tomorrow, like and you're not going to Washington anymore. And I was so upset. And then I realized why she like blocked me in there and I realized why she spent all that money. It was because I wasn't going to be home for Christmas and so I had to be there over Christmas, which really sucked.

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[A]

so when I went into the group home I remember we went to Mimi's Cafe for breakfast first. I remember throwing up in the bathroom because I was so anxious, which isn't like a normal thing for me. It was really weird. I don't remember like going into the group home, but I have some memories about being there. The first time I heard about my abuser I was I had seen her in passing. I was in this Place, basically, it was called the New Foundation. It got shut down after they tried to change the name and still were failing. It was in Scottsdale. And basically this place has, like, a little dorm for residential treatment. They have a dorm for drug treatment. They have a dorm for diversion treatment and then a foster, like, dorm as well. They morph all these kids together. And the brochure that they gave my mom, they don't tell you that they have all those programs. They only say it's residential. They don't tell you that they're putting your kids with diversion Persian kids because they just want to get as much money as possible. So, yeah, so I'm like, I'm. I'm there and I'm at lunch one day and I hear these girls talking about one of the employees. And they're like, she's so hot. Blah, blah, blah. Didn't you hear, like, she was on tv? And I'm like, what? And I'm also, like, out at that time as, like, bisexual or pansexual, whatever. I just, like, date people for their hearts, not their parts. So, you know, I was, like, intrigued. I was like, who are you guys talking about? And they're like, oh, Renny, she was on A Shot at Love with Cula Tequila too. And I was like, oh, I watched that show. I remember, like, I watched all those, like, weird shows. Rock A Love Flava Flav. All of them, like, way too young. Yeah, but, like, I totally watched it. So I was like, no way. That's crazy. She actually got eliminated the first episode. She really, really connected with Tila. Tila really liked her. And then Rennie got too drunk and she ended up kissing this girl named Lily on the show. And then during the elimination, it's kind of iconic. Tila said, give me my key and get the fuck out of my house. She said that to both of them. But yeah, so that's what they were talking about. And I guess Rennie would tell kids this in, like, the dorms, which as an adult now, I'm like, why are you telling 15 year olds? I mean, it was only minors there. Why are you telling them about you being on a TV show in general? Especially that show? I don'. And maybe they did recognize her, like she said, but, like, still, like, she

[B]

talked about it to, like, sound cool.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And I noticed there was one or two times that Rennie was in our dorm, but I did not talk to her. Like, we didn't talk a lot. Like, we barely talked in this group home. But I do remember her Talking about how she was going to propose to her girlfriend and, like, how she was going to do it and whatnot. So anyway, I. When you're in these places as a kid, it's cringe, but it's kind of your whole life, so you'll kind of mess around with other kids or you'll have crushes or whatever. Now looking at it, I'm like, oh, my God, girl, you're there for treatment. Why are you trying to find the love of your life in there? But there was this girl named Jocelyn. She was my first ever girlfriend. And that's where we met. It was around the time that silly bands were a thing. And that's kind of how she, like, I could tell she liked me. And she, like, we, like, gave each other silly bands and stuff, I guess, her and Rennie. Since Jocelyn was in the detox house and the residential treatment house, I was able to connect with her. And so was Rennie, because that's the house that she was in the most. The dorm. And so when I got out, me and Jocelyn dated for, like, six months. She was the first woman I was ever intimate with. And, yeah, we had, like, a really great relationship. I noticed that she was friends with Rennie on Facebook, and I was like, oh, Like, I remember her. Like, she was so cool. And so I sent her a friend request. And so, yeah, she was already friends with Jocelyn on there, who was also 15. I was 15. So when me and Jocelyn got into a fight, of course I posted about it on Facebook and Rennie commented on it, and she said, and I quote, what's going on with my kids? So I sent her a message, and I kind of just like, gave her the rundown of whatever it was that we were. I don't even remember what it was. Obviously didn't matter that much. And that's when she gave me her number and we started texting. And right away she, like, asked me. Maybe not right away, but, like, with. Within that same day, she asked me how old I was. And I was really confused because I was like, you know how old I am? I was just in the. The group home. And basically, yeah, I mean, I told her I was. I was 15. And she said, hurry up and have some birthdays. And to me, I thought, and now looking at it as an adult, that's really creepy. That's like, I want to date you. I wish you were of age. But I thought at that time, like, okay, she doesn't. She wouldn't be interested in me because I'm so young. But we, like, continued talking and texting a lot.

[B]

Quick question.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So how long were you in the group home that time?

[A]

30 days.

[B]

30 days. And you didn't really talk to her there and then how old was she?

[A]

28.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yep, she was 28 and I was 15. At some parts of the year, she'd be 13 years older than me and then other parts, 12. So we start texting and it's not like, super flirtatious. I couldn't tell, like, what it was. But then she asked me to hang out and I was like, yes, at the time. Like, you know, I don't. I wasn't like, happy at all. And I was like, I would love to get out of my dad's house right now. Like, sure. So she said, like, you know, it's a far drive. Like, do you want to sleep over? It's an hour drive to come get me and an hour drive back to her house. So I said, sure. So she drove two hours to come get me, technically, and two hours to bring me home. She drove four hours round trip to meet up with a girl she's never even really talked to much or whatever, a kid. So she came to pick me up. We made plans after, like, probably texting about a week still. I didn't know if this was a date. Like, it was really confusing because of, like, the whole dynamic. So she picks me up, we drive an hour to Mesa. She takes me to Tilted Kilt. It's like Hooters, kind of. They just were like, kilt. It's like Scottish, I think. But she took me there. And I remember I was so little, but I remember she was like, drinking. She had like. She was like finishing her second beer and she was like, yeah, like, I used to work here. Like, I actually fingered a girl in the bathroom. It was so random. And like, looking back, like, even if you were on a date with somebody your age, like, that's weird to say. Yeah, also it's weird to say to a 15 year old. It was a weird comment, but I think she was saying it to sound so cool to me. Like, oh, yeah. Like I did that.

[B]

I think that. But also to make it, like. I think that's a way of, like, grooming, like, to introduce like a normalcy in it.

[A]

Like, oh.

[B]

Like, you know, like nonchalant.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I didn't really think of it that way. So. Yeah. I remember she was eating sweet potato fries for some reason. Just like details. I remember because it was so long ago. And. Yeah, so that was that at Tilted Kilt. And then after that, we went to Tempe Marketplace. There used to be a BevMo. And Tempe Marketplace, which is like a liquor. A big liquor store. And she ran in there to get a couple of mini vodkas. And then we went and got a smoothie right next to the movie theater. And she put them in the smoothie. I knew about it, though. I mean, not that it makes it any better. We saw the movie Water for Elephants. And during the movie, she grabbed my hand, and that's when I knew it was a date. And I kind of, like, had a mini panic attack inside because I liked her. And because I was just, like. I felt a lot of pressure being young. I was like, I hope I'm enough, almost. So after the movie, we get back in her car and head to her apartment. But she wanted to stop for snacks. And so she asked me, like, what kind of snacks I like. I was like, I love pickles. Like, it's funny because after my pregnancy, I stopped liking them. So weird. But they were always my favorite food. So we got, like, the bagged ones. But she told me to stay in the car because she wanted to get more alcohol. So I stayed in the car, and she got a big box of pink wine, like, the cheap, crappy kind. And we got back to her apartment. There wasn't any furniture in there except her bed because she was in the process of moving out. But she turned on Lars and the Real Girl in her bedroom with Ryan Gosling. And we watched that movie. And I don't. I think it just started with her kissing me, I don't know. And then she went down on me. And I was so young that I didn't. I had. I had had sex before, and I had even orgasm before, during sex, but I didn't know what it was. I just knew it felt good. And she said. She came up and she said, you take a long time to come, babe. And I was so young, I didn't even know what that meant. And so I was a little, like, insecure about that. So I just, like, pulled her up to kiss her, and then we fell asleep. The next morning, I was so hungover, I was so thirsty when I woke up, and she was still sleeping. And I wasn't confident enough at that age to, like, wake her up and ask her for water or to even go in the kitchen and get water myself. So I grabbed my pink wine next to the bed and I chugged it, not even realizing, yeah, God, I was so young. I didn't realize that that would just. Just. Yeah, it won't make me feel better, but, yeah, it's just in hindsight, I'm like, wow, looking back, I was that young. I didn't even know what an orgasm was. I didn't even know that you shouldn't drink alcohol to hydrate. Like. So she takes me home, and then we just, like, keep talking.

[B]

And at this point, you were no longer talking to Jocelyn.

[A]

Jocelyn was pissed because she had a crush on Rennie the whole time we were at the group home and even after the fact, which is probably why she added Ronnie. I'm guessing that she probably found her on Facebook, but I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Rennie added her, you know. So shortly after this, like, we're just texting, she sends me a picture of her in, like, basically in the dorms, there's this little, like, enclosed office with windows so you could see through it. But she sent me a picture of her hand in her pants sitting in the chair in there. And, like, looking back now, I'm like, wow. So she did that at work around children and sent it to a child that also was in there. That's wild. Shortly after this, like, maybe the next hangout or the one after that, she took me to a bar. And she knew the bartender. I think her name was Amy or something, but she knew the bartender. And so the bartender didn't ID us. And I. I remember she bought. Like, it was weird because, like, it wasn't a shot, but I guess you were supposed to chug it because she, like, kind of teased me that I was just sipping on it. And so we chug it. And then all of a sudden, I'm so drunk that I'm laying on the bar and her friend, like, Amy comes up and she's like, hey, like, I really, like, don't want to get in trouble for, like, serving underage. So, like, you guys, like, got to get out. And Rennie was like, oh, no. Like, she's of age, but, like, yeah, I'm gonna take her home. Like, she needs to get home. I kind of remember. And I only know that because Rennie told me after the fact, but I remember her, like, reclining the chair. And then for some reason, we slept at a guy's house that we were hanging out with, like, one of her friends. I wake up on his couch with a pot in my lap, and Human Centipede is on the tv. Like, the. The movie. Rennie was into really fucked up movies. Like, she Showed me a lot of really fucked up movies. And that actually gets me into the. The grooming that I saw that was so obvious now. And. And looking back, this part gets me really bad. But my dad would let her in her house and, like, let her sleep over and stuff. And, like, he did ask me about her age, and he did think it was weird, but, like, he just let me do what I wanted. But there's this pedophile who's a woman named Mary Kay letourneau from the 90s. And I'm pretty sure in second and sixth grade because she, like, moved grades. She taught a little boy, and she ended up being with him at 14 years old, I believe 14 or 15. And she got pregnant with two of his babies. The parents had a restraining order on her. They still found her having some sex with this kid in her car. She could not stay away from him. They ended up together. He ended up, like, when he got older, he ended up having mental health problems and alcohol problems and horrible issues throughout his entire life. Until her last breath, she won't admit she's a predator. Like, she. I guess the statistic for female predators admitting that they're predators is extremely low. I'm not sure why. But, yeah, to that last breath, she still really thinks that she's not a pedophile, even though she was guilty in it in court and literally had his children. So Renny showed me the movie that they remade in my dad's living room. And basically it was like, this is just like us. Like, they ended up together because they're so in love and what they have is real, and that's what we are. She also showed me the movies Bloomington, which is another lesbian movie within a teacher and a student. And Loving Annabelle, that was another one, as well as she made this song. She would sing the song you'll Be in My heart by Tarzan to me. And if you listen to lyrics, it's kind of creepy because he says, like, stop your crying. You'll be all right. And then also our bond is different. They don't, like, understand what. We're not that different at all. Like, just, like, really creepy lyrics for our dynamic. Like, looking back. Also the song Wonderwall I can't listen to, or the. The Good Life this is going to be. Yeah, can't listen to that. Those songs, like, were our songs. So, yeah, she really was grooming me, like, really hard with those movies. She also showed me the movie Lost and Delirious, which is a movie about a lesbian couple, where at the end, one of the girls kills herself because, like, she gets broken up with just, like, and really messed up movies. So, yeah, the all that was going on and then it started really affecting me in school. I already. I didn't want to be at school. I wanted to be with my girlfriend who lived across the state. Like, an hour away, I guess. Not across the state, but pretty far away. Like, I didn't want to be there. And I remember, like, one night she texted me in the middle of the night and she said, I just got raped. And of course, like, I wake up a few hours later and I see it and I'm frantic and I have to go to school. And the whole time I don't want to go to school. Like, I'm worried about her, but she's not responding because she was so drunk that she, like, was sleeping. And so, like, the next day she told me she got, like, super, super drunk, and her friend did that to her. And I was so young that I said, like, well, why did you get so drunk? And, like, of course I would never say that to someone now that got sa'd. But I was just, like, so frustrated. And it's like, I couldn't focus on school because I'm having this, like, adult telling me she got raped. And, like, all this stuff is going on. I remember, like, texting her, riding the yellow school bus to school, which is just wild to me. So, yeah, I just. I didn't want to be in school anymore. So at this point, I am just, like, so under her spell. And you have to think about it, too. I never felt, like, involved in a family either, or, like, like, truly, like, my mom loved me, but at the time, I didn't feel like I was loved by any. Any parent. So having this adult take care of me and give me this extra care, buy me food, pick me up, take me places, give me that stability that I wanted and be my first real relationship, first person I ever, like, really loved and, like, spent a lot of time with. It was really intense. So this is the worst thing I've ever done in my life. And I hope the audience gives me some, like, slack, because I don't think people would have a lot of courage talking about the worst thing they ever did in their life on such a public platform. But I want to talk about it. My mom was, like, driving me somewhere, and I think she was starting to catch on because, like, I wanted to spend a lot of time with Rennie, and I was like. I think I was, like, asking her if I can go to her house or something. And she said no. And like, I don't know, I was just being not very nice to her. And she was driving, I was in the passenger seat, and she said something negative about her, and I just, like, lost my mind. And I started hitting my mother while she was driving. And like, this woman is my everything now. And, like, I can't. I don't think I'll ever fully forgive myself, but I at least put in the work to change over the last four, 15 years. And our relationship is amazing now, and she forgives me, you know, but, yeah, that was the biggest mistake I ever did in my life. But I really think it's important to include in the story because it just shows how much this woman, like, meant to me. And like, what I. Like I would turn against everybody for her at that time. Yeah. And it was just that parental, like, connection that I had with her that I didn't know was even there. And it's gross, but I didn't know it was happening. And you know, the relationship, it was just a lot at one time. So at that point, my mom called 911 and they arrested me. And I remember when they put handcuffs around me, they saw my scars and they said, we got ourselves a crazy one. And that really sucked. Same time I am at, like, in the little room, like, talking to the cop, and he's like, you're gonna regret those in your 20s. And that really pisses me off looking at it now. Cause I'm like, only my 20s. Only in my prime years, not when I'm in my 30s. I'll be used up then. Only my 20s. Like, I don't know. I just didn't like the said that. Like, why don't you just say you're going to regret those?

[B]

Like, not even that, but, like, let's figure out why she's doing.

[A]

Yeah. And not just, you're going to regret those. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. So my stepdad, they. They let me wait there for a good bit before they came and got me. You know, I was just in a holding cell. I was underage and I deserved it to sit there for a bit. And my stepdad came and picked me up, and all my stuff was in the backseat. And he took me to my dad's house. And I totally understand why my mom did that.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Yeah. But I do think about sometimes what do parents do that don't have that option, you know? And I struggle so much with conflict because anytime anything was hard, I'd just go to the other Parents house. So I like ghost people for a long time. Like, I could not handle conflict because I just never had to practice it in my life.

[B]

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[A]

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[A]

New episodes every Wednesday. So he took me to my dad's and I. I started online school for Primavera. So at this point, I'm not going to school very much. Like, I'm not going to school at all. And I'm barely doing that. I don't have. I didn't have any, like. Like, I couldn't like, make myself sit and do it. So eventually I have to go see a judge to figure out what I have to do for hitting my mom. So me and my mom, she picks me up and she takes me and we go and I couldn't believe it. And neither could my mom. But they sentenced me to the same group home that I met Rennie at, into the Diversion dorm, which was just wild to me and my mom. Like, we almost looked at each other and laughed. And so I go in there and I know the entire process. Like, I know how they're going to check me like that. I don't have anything on me. I'm not supposed to or whatever. This group home used to be a, like, what are they called? Elderly person home. Yeah. And so, like, it kind of seems like an apartment in a lot of the rooms. Like, there's like a door that has like a bathroom and another. And like in the bathroom there's a shower, even though it was just like the therapist. Office. Office. So I have her check me and everything. And I have. I put my phone in, like my bag or something while she's checking me. And then after she checked me, I grab it and then she's like, ready to take me back to the dorm. And I'm like, oh, my stomach really hurts. I put it in the shower when she was checking me. That's what it was. I put it in the shower when she was checking my body. And so I was like, oh, my stomach really hurts. Like, do you mind if I use the bathroom before we go back? And she was like, yeah. So then I grabbed it and I was able to talk to Rennie the whole like, for a, like a week before my phone finally died because I would just turn it on at night.

[B]

Okay, so the first time you went to the same home, it was a 30 day stay, then you're out, and then all this stuff happens in between and they send you back. There was it for another 30 days. And then were you not gonna see Rennie there that time? Is that why you had a text? No.

[A]

So she still working there? Yes. I totally forgot about this shit. She told me that she quit.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So she wasn't working there anymore. And that made my mom a lot more comfortable about me going back.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did she actually quit?

[A]

I'll get to that in a little bit.

[B]

But as far as you're concerned, you're back there for 30 days. She doesn't work there anymore. So that's why you wanted to text her, at least for a week. Okay, gotcha.

[A]

So. And she knew I was sneaking that phone in, and so I sneak the phone in and I'm texting her, like, each night and. And my phone dies. And she obviously knew a lot of the employees there, and unfortunately there was this, like, really crappy school in the, like, residential group home. And so we had to go to, like, different classes during the day. And so I go into one and his name is James. He taught, I think, history there. But James comes up to me and he's like, hey. Like, Rennie texted me and like, she wanted me to tell you that she's really proud of you. Like, how do you know her? And I was like, oh, yeah, Like I was here before. She's like a mentor to me. And whatever that's what we would call her to everybody is my mentor.

[B]

And what was her position at the.

[A]

Basically a glorified babysitter. All you have to have is your fingerprint clearance card. And they interview you and you just kind of watch the kids and, like, make sure that, like, they get to a bed at a certain hour and, like, you have to Take them to the cafeteria and take them to their therapy appointment and like, all that stuff. This group home also would have field trips. And I just want people to think about this, like, these kids are more mentally ill in the residential home there than a lockdown mental health facility. And then they take them out and they will let you run away because they can't put their hands on you. So there's that. So she. She's talking to me through James, and it was just kind of her way of letting me know, like, she was thinking about me, I think. And it just sucks because I didn't get any help. Like, I needed to get help. And I'm still just only thinking about this adult, so. And still my mom doesn't know about it, so. But she's catching on at the time, you know, like I said before when I posted that Facebook status about my ex still, you know, just posting online about stuff. So before I went into the group home the second time, like, I would post things on Tumblr. Tumblr was my thing. I didn't know my mom knew my Tumblr. She found my Tumblr while I was in the group home the second time. And so we have family therapy sessions once a week. So we go into a family therapy session. It's a really small room connected to a regular size room. It's like little closet. So we're in, like, the closet room with the therapist talking. And the therapist says to my mom, did you want to address it now or wait till, like, the end of the session? My mom's like, we'll wait till the end of the session. So the whole session I'm like, yeah, thinking about that. What is going on? Like, whatever. So we. They get to it finally, and my mom says, jess, I know about you and Rennie. I contacted the police. I f. I filed a report. And you're not discussing see her again. And I just, again, like, the. I can't express enough the pain that I felt, like, through abandonment, like, it felt debilitating, like. Like a weight on my chest. So I opened the little closet door to get out of that little office into, like, it's. It was the group room, but into like a regular sized room. And I just fall to my knees, like, in the corner, and I'm just sobbing. And then of course, I have to go back to the school after that. So I stay in the hallway in the fetal position and literally just like hyperventilate and cry the whole time. And I didn't think she would contact me. Again after that. I mean, of course you would be terrified. I would think. So I end up getting out of the group home again, and I didn't expect. I. I almost was doing better because, like, that situation had me thinking that it was done, it was over with. So I almost was, like, starting to think of, like, okay, like, what am I doing now? Like, okay, we're going back to school, whatever. But then I get a text, and it's from her, and I'm shocked. Like, I did not think, like, that's bold, right? I was shocked. Looking back, I think she did it to coach me, because the next time we hung out, she coached me on what to say to the detective, and it wasn't. She said, you don't want to be obvious with your lying. So if they ask you if, like, we've kissed before, tell them that, like, I've kissed your forehead, like, when you tried to kiss me. And I'm like, okay, cool. I love you. I'll do anything for you. Like, this is all gonna be okay.

[B]

Tell your mom basically the same things that she was coaching you to say.

[A]

I told my mom. I didn't say anything. I didn't tell my mom. Like, it was true, but the way I reacted, like, and everything, it was kind of, like, validated.

[B]

Did she ever try to ask you more details or. No, it just kind of went straight

[A]

to no because I would just deny it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Gotcha. Yeah. So, yeah, so at this point, like, I'm talking to the detective, and he. I just tell him exactly what Rennie told me to say, and then it was very much over. He did ask, will you take a lie detector test? I said yes. He never tested me. And I said yes because even though I didn't want to do it because I thought, like, he wouldn't do it if I was confident, which was right. So then the case was closed. In the report, I guess when he talked to Rennie, she admitted that we had romantic feelings for each other and were waiting until I was 18 to be physical. Which is crazy to me now, like, because it's just so obvious that she's grooming me, like, right.

[B]

Or also, like, hello. Like, don't you think there's a problem that she's attracted to? Yeah.

[A]

And the dynamic behind that with me being in a state ran facility that she worked in, like, crazy. It makes me so angry reading that report.

[B]

Yeah. That's odd.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah, super, super weird. And then, like. And I remember, like, being there for her so much because it was so scary for her. And it just makes me so angry. Like, looking back after the investigation, I completely forgive my mom for this now because she went through hell trying to, like, get me away from this woman. She even asked her straight up, stay away from my daughter. And she still would come get me and shit. I, as a mom now, like, oof. I can't imagine, like, what I would do in that situation. So my mom gave up, and basically she just let me do what I wanted. I was 16 at this time, and I basically moved in with her, and we were openly in a relationship at this point at 16. But if anybody was to ask us about, like, sex acts, of course we're going to deny it. We're sleeping in the same queen size bed. Around this time, her mom died, Rennie's mom died. And I was even in hospice with them. And that's when things got really, really dark. She struggled really bad with alcoholism, and she would come home and, like, throw a 12 pack in the fridge, like, and she would drink, probably, like, eight of them. It got to the point where I started chugging them so she would drink less because I was scared, like, and she wasn't abusive besides being in a relationship with me when she wasn't drunk. But when she was drunk, oh, my God, like, it was a push and pull to the max. Just leave. Just leave. Nobody loves me. Just leave. Just leave. Like, so bad to where, like, I can't say no anymore because I can't tell you that I love you, that I'm here. Because, like, it's just so intense. And then I leave. And then, how could you have left me? Like, how could you? You're just like everybody else. And to get into her childhood, long story short, her dad's in prison to this day, if not dead, for molesting a boy Scout. And I guess, like, they found blood in her diaper and tested it, and there was semen. So her dad is a pedophile. And, yeah, I mean, it's absolutely fucking horrible what happened to her as well. And. But unfortunately, I'm just not gonna let what she did to me go because of that, because at the end of the day, as an adult, it's her responsibility to get help and to, you know, heal from that. So she was bold enough to take me to her mom's funeral dinner. It was, like, at a family member's house. But she didn't tell them we were together. She told them I was a kid from a group home that she was mentoring. Which is also just so strange because, like, it was like, at 6:00pm, like, so, yeah. I mean, I meet all of her family and they think she's just such a great person for helping children after her horrible childhood. I try not to, like, laugh about it because it's so dumb. Because I do genuinely feel bad for her, I really do, but I have to stick up for that teenager me that nobody fucking else did shit for except my mom, who ultimately gave up because I felt bad for her and I had Stockholm syndrome for years. The police were constantly at our apartment. I don't know how that happened without them seeing what was going on. Just constantly. My mom had to call the police on her once because she was so drunk. And I called my mom really scared. And then Rennie came in the room and my voice changed. I was like, oh, no, mom, everything's fine. And I had mentioned to my mom that Rennie's sister, who also lived with us for a while and saw us sleeping in the same bed and thought we weren't together. She had a sword, like a samurai sword. And so the cops asked my mom, like, is there any weapons in the house? And they're like, she's like, there's a sword. And so, like, literally like 12 cop cars pull up. And luckily it scared the crap out of Rennie. So, like, she stopped drinking for a bit, but then it would just start all over again again when she put holes in our bathroom door trying to get to me. Like, she saw those the next day and then would stop drinking for a bit and then it would happen all over again. One night I was ignoring her when she was doing, like, the push pull thing, and she started kicking me in the ribs on the floor while I was pretending to be asleep besides that. And never really got physical, just the kicking in the ribs that one time. But yeah, it was just. It was horrible. And anytime she would order a beer, like at a restaurant, I would get visibly upset and anxious. And then she would tell me that I was projecting my dad's alcoholism into her, which. Onto her, which was not true. She was an abusive drunk. And. And maybe, but like, also, even if your girlfriend is going through that, like, maybe don't get a beer. So, yeah, we. We went to that funeral and I met all of her family, which was extremely wild, and they didn't really see anything, which to me, I just feel like it was so obvious. This was pretty close to when we end. She ended things. But one night she decided to go out with her cousin bj, like, to Mill Ave, which in Arizona, Mill Avenue is kind of like the partying, like street. So she went to Mill Ave. And then she comes home and I am sleeping upstairs because of course I can't go. I'm like 16 or 17 at this point. And I hear voices and I'm like, well, maybe like, like a female voice. And I'm like, oh, like, it must be like her cousin. Like, maybe he bought. He brought a girl back with him and they're just like hanging out, whatever. But then I'm still listening and like, I just don't hear a guy's voice at all, ever. And I only hear Renny's voice and the other voice and I'm just like, what's going on? I fried my hair with bleach a few days prior and shaved my head. So I'm also extremely feeling insecure. And I don't have the balls to like go down there and be like, what's going on? I'm also very young. She took a ton of psych meds too, and then would get belligerent. So I guess she told this woman that they were going to go back to the apartment and smoke. Rennie doesn't smoke weed. I don't know why she told her that, but she took her upstairs and they go in the bathroom and I could see because the bedroom's right there and the lady is like, where is it? And Rennie just like says something random and weird and I can tell that the girl is like, what is going on here? So then they end up leaving. I bet. I think what happened is the girl was like, let's go back to the bar. And so I see, I'm looking out the bedroom window. I can see her pulling out and I'm like, I can't even believe she's driving right now. I call her with my friend Julie on three way calls. So she still remembers this to this day. And I'm like, what are you doing? And like she said something back. And I hear the girl say, I thought you didn't have a girlfriend. And Rennie goes, I don't, and hung up. And like, I was just like flabbergasted during this time. We had just moved into this condo and we had like one or two more nights at our other apartment. So I just, instead of driving an hour back to my mom's house, I just drove to that apartment and slept there. I go back the next morning. Of course she can't remember any of it. She's crying and she's being so sweet and it's like, this is the person I've been craving and wanting for so long, and I just immediately forgave her. And it was just. It was so unhealthy. It was just constantly like that all the time. But that was, like, the best example. So me and Rennie would break up and get back together all the time, like, and so it was just another normal breakup, and I knew we would get back together. But then I was at Olive Garden with my two high school best friends, one of them being the one who's here with me today. And I go on her on Rennie's Instagram, and she has Ashley May with a date in the bio. And my heart and my soul. My stomach was in my butt and my heart was in my throat, and, like, I was just, like, shocked. And that had never happened before in the three years that we were seeing each other at this time. I had just turned 18, and I also was still living with her. It basically was like, yes. But, like, I would be sleeping sometimes on my dad's. My mom was having me back sometimes. So, like, if anything got really bad with her, I'd just go sleep at my mom's or I'd just go sleep at my dad's. Like, they would just let me come and go, basically. Basically. And so, yeah, I mean, I still had stuff at the condo. So I call her, and I'm just losing my mind after. I, like, leave my friends because I don't want them to see, like, how bad I lost my shit. And I, I, I really. Like I said, the grooming was just so intense. Like, I felt like I wanted to hurt Ashley. Like, I called her, and I was like, I'm gonna fucking beat her ass. And I heard Ashley, and of course, I would never say that now, like, ever. But, you know, I'm 18, and I hear Ashley laughing in the background. And that caused me to feel rage for, like, the first time in my life and maybe the only time, like, my entire body felt, like, tingly. Like. And so I drove to my friend's house, had her buy me wine. I chugged a whole bunch of red wine. And then I took myself to a mental hospital because I was like, I'm going to hurt this woman or I'm going to hurt myself. And so I'm going to put. Put myself in here until I know that I won't hurt anybody. And she had. Rennie had the audacity to call me, call the hospital, and make sure I was okay. That's what she said. And she's like, are you. I was like, why are you calling me? And she was like, I'm just really worried about you. I just wanted to make sure you're okay. I was like, I, I, I can't. I have to get through this. Like, I need you to leave me alone. Like, basically. So she left me alone. Time went by, like, maybe like, a couple months. And I guess Ashley knew that I'm a stoner, and at the time, like, it's weed wasn't legal. And so she. And she knew I was trying to get my locket back that my grandfather had given me that I left in Rennie's bathroom. I had been asking Rennie for it for a while, but she just wouldn't respond or whatever. And so Ashley, like, I think she messaged me on Instagram or something, but she was just like, hey, like, you smoke, right? And I was like, yeah. And she's like, rennie is working the entire weekend at a group home. She would sleep there. Disgusting thinking about that now. Like, literally, she would go in, like, like Saturday morning and come back, like, Sunday night or Monday morning, whatever. And so she's like, if you want to come over and get your locket, can I buy, like, a gram or two from you? And I'm like, sure, why not? I would love to see my cats. Me and Rennie had three cats together. So I go and knock on my old condo door, and Ashley opens it wearing all of Rennie's clothes. And, like, I see my cats in the background, and she says, do you just, like, want to come in and have a beer and talk? And I'm like, sure. So, you know, I'm 18 years old, and she's giving me alcohol. She's, I think, 24, 25. And I end up like, like drinking four. Probably within, like, 30 minutes to an hour because I was anxious. And all of a sudden, like, we're just, like, kind of talking crap about, like, Rennie a little bit. And that was interesting. And then randomly, she says, you know that you left, like, one of your shirts upstairs in the closet? And I was like, yeah. And this is so weird, but she was like, sometimes I wear it and think of you. And I'm like, huh? And, you know, I'm also kind of buzzed, so it's not super weird or anything. And she's like, let's go upstairs and get it. And I'm like, sure. So we go upstairs, and I sit on my old bed, and I lay down, and I'm like, ugh. Like, I missed this bed, you know? And our cat named Beef she would do this thing sometimes with Rennie and mostly with me where she like, would crawl up us on the bed and she would get onto my head and start kneading my head. And she did it in front of Ashley. And Ashley was like jokingly being jealous and she's like, she never does that with me. And it just sucked, the whole situation. And then all of a sudden Ashley's like, we can like cuddle, right? Like as I'm cuddling beef. And then all of a sudden we're having sex and I hooked up with her. So the next I like, sleep there and around like maybe five in the morning, like, we wake up, I'm pretty sobered up at this point. And she says to me, I still have my apartment in Phoenix, like, if you want to like, come there. And I'm like, no. Like, I'm literally still in love with Rennie. Like, this whole, this whole situation is horrible. And I even remember that night where like, we were drinking the beers. Like, I asked her, I'm like, are you setting me up?

[B]

Up?

[A]

Like, is something happening? Like. And so I was shocked like that that whole thing happened. And I'm like, I need to get out of here. Like, I honestly felt bad, like, looking to strengthen your health and well being? Tune in to the Dr. Tina show, one of Apple podcast top alternative health shows. I'm Dr. Tina Moore, naturopathic physician and chiropractor, and I cover topics like metabolic health, chronic diseases, pain management and more with expert interviews and solo episodes. I keep it no, no nonsense with a science backed approach to empower you to improve your health and resilience. New episodes every Thursday, produced by Drake Peterson and Wellness Loud. Hello Juicy crime lovers. I'm Heather McDonald, host of Juicy Scoop, the number one longest running comedy interview podcast for over a decade. Well now I'm bringing you some of the juiciest truth crime episodes. We'll dive into the most outrageous crimes of passion, greed, deception and scandal. From cunning grifters to shocking betrayals. And yes, sometimes a love affair so twisted that someone ends up dead. Maybe even at the hands of their hot dentist. I'll be joined by a rotating panel of special guests, including my sister Shannon, a criminal defense attorney, along with police officers, detectives, and even my own husband, Peter, who's always ready to break down those infamous cases where a wife takes out her husband. So buckle up, because we're about to revisit classic juicy crimes and uncover the latest cases everyone is talking about. Subscribe to Juicy Crimes for free at Apple Podcasts Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. I don't really like that I did that at all. And I also think it was gross of Ashley to do that. I mean, for many different reasons. Being my age. I mean, I'm barely 18. Giving me alcohol, all of that, it's just gross, gross situation. And she didn't tell Rennie right away, but then like probably four days went by and she messaged me and she's like, hey, I'm getting really drunk right now so I could tell Rennie the truth. And I'm just kind of like, you know, preparing myself for an explosion. And then Rennie called me and she was just like going off and she ended up staying with Ashley for like three more years. And Ashley had two kids, two little boys, which also just.

[B]

So in that three years, you and her didn't ever.

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. No.

[A]

So that was the end of it. So I end up meeting my next girlfriend on like Instagram and I end up moving to Long Beach, California. I could not be in Arizona, especially Mesa, like east Arizona, because that's where she lived. And like, I, I couldn't be there just like seeing anything that any place we were together, like, I, I could, could not do it. I, I was just so. I, I just couldn't do it. I was heartbroken. So I move in with my new girlfriend. I'll. I'm going to call her Lynn. She was there for me through the worst time in my life. And I can never repay her because I treated her absolutely terrible. I did not know why I was such a horrible partner and friend. I. Lynn ended up having to break up with me and I ended up taking advantage so badly of her because she's not gonna throw me out on the streets. My mom won't let me come home because I'm actively an alcoholic at this point. Like, I'm drinking vodka every single day. I'm waking up on the sidewalk. Like I stole alcohol from the grocery store so much. The cops knew me by name. Not from stealing, but from suicide attempts. They knew who I was. They even called my mom out of state cause they were worried that I was gonna get shot from a police officer for resisting. Because I would resist. But yeah, I was just, I was self harming. I literally looked for buildings to jump off of. I went into a really, really nice. It's like one of like the oldest buildings in Long Beach. It's a hotel. It's like a hotel, or maybe it's like condos, but it's like this beautiful giant green building. Right by the beach, and it's really, really tall. And I went in, and of course, it's very expensive to live there. And this man with, like, a very expensive little dog was like, do you live here? And then I'm glad he was so rude, because I ended up leaving. But I. I was going up to the top, and I just, like, genuinely wanted to die. And I didn't know why I was such a. I was, like, so dark. I didn't know. I didn't realize, like, what Rennie really did to me. And, like, luckily, seeing it all now, I forgive myself for that time of my life. But I lost so many friends. I lost all my family. I treated Lynn, like, horrible. Like, I've never treated anybody that poorly in my life. And I don't know why he's still, like, so close with me, but I could never pay, like, repay him. There was a time that he came home from. I'm so sorry. Lynn's. Uses multiple pronouns.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There was a time that Lynn came home from work, and I was very drunk and sleeping, and she turned on the lights, and I was like, turn the lights back off. And she was like, no, like, you need to get up. Like. And we weren't even together anymore. I'm just couch surfing, and I won't leave. I feel so terrible. And again, just, like, turning on the lights, and I just was, like, saying mean stuff back. And then she said, you're just like your dad. And when she said that, I lost my shit again. And I started going after her just like I did my mom. And she called the police. They didn't listen to her. And they said, if it happens again, call us. It happened again, and they came and arrested me, and it was the only time I ever went to jail. And I'm so happy that they took me to jail. And I'm so happy she called the police because I needed that. It scared me so bad that I never cut myself again because I was afraid that, like, the cops were gonna show up and I would go back to jail. And guess who picked me up from jail? Lynn did. And that's a real. A real friend. And Lynn knows everything that happened, like, with Rennie and all that. And I would get super drunk and cry for Rennie, like, and she still was there for me, and she's still one of my best friends. And I. Man, it makes me, like, emotional. Whoo. I just love her a lot. So it's really cool, like, how you could be friends with your exes, like, genuinely. And, like, because they know you so well. But it just meant so much that she picked me up from jail after I hurt her like that. So, yeah, I just didn't know what the, like, why I. I hated myself so deeply because I didn't know why I was so horrible to, like, the ones that I loved. I could not be faithful. I. I just. I was a bad friend and a bad partner. And then basically I met Andrew, who was later became my fiance. We met in Long beach, and he ended up having to move to Mississippi, where he's from, because his mom was really sick and he got, like, really lonely there. And we. We already had, like, been dating for a while, so he asked me to move in with him. So I moved to Mississippi and I lived there for two years until his mom passed away and we ended up getting engaged. We loved each other a lot. We still love each other, but unfortunately we just didn't want the same things. He likes to rave a lot. And I wanted a family and have kids and get married and settle down and stuff. But luckily we're still really good friends. Our cat literally switches houses still. And I. That was a really good point in my life. But I still was struggling with, like, drinking a lot and like, just still there's something inside of me that I don't know what is wrong. All of a sudden, while I'm with Drew, like, we're still living together, but we're not, like, really together. I am working at chil and I see this woman eating and I'm not even serving her. And she ended up staying there for like two hours because her and her friend were just vibing. And I gave her my number and she later ended up being my wife. We're biologically, like, able to have kids. If somebody can't figure that out, they can Google it. I don't feel like explaining it, but we're able to biologically have children together, which is really cool as a lesbian couple. And then I got pregnant with my first baby and he changed my life. Becoming a mom gave me self worth. It made me care about the planet more. It made me care about. It made me be able to set boundaries better. Like, it's done so much for me, but I still was just drinking so much and then being on psych meds while drinking. It's basically like I would have word salad. I would just say things that, like words that didn't even go together. Like, I once my rock bottom was. I didn't know who my wife was, and I thought she was trying to take My baby. And when I woke up the next day, I realized I was like, I'm going to be a bad mom or I'm going to lose my kids. And if I lose my kids, I'm going to die. I can't do that. So I just stopped drinking, and everything just started falling into place. So at this point, I've only been in Arizona now for, like, a year since Mississippi. And I know Rennie lives in Arizona, and it's been a really long time. So I think I messaged her on Insta.

[B]

So what was the gap in between since you had talked to her?

[A]

So I hadn't seen her since I was 18, and I'm now 28.

[B]

And you have a kid. Mm.

[A]

And I have a kid. He's six months old.

[B]

Okay. And the first time you guys were together was about three years.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

Okay. Gotcha.

[A]

Yes. So from 15 to 18. And then so I message her, and I'm like, I really want to talk. And at this point, I'm at the very beginning of, like, what you did was wrong. I feel that way, and I want to talk to her about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we're on the phone, and it's crazy. Like, I'm just. I'm like, I can't believe this is happening. And, like, the Stockholm syndrome in me, like, I swear I still. Like, even though I met the love of my life, I'm the happiest I've ever been. There's just that Stockholm syndrome that's like, we're gonna end up together. Even though, like, I didn't really think that. I don't know. It's just a weird thing that's just inside of me.

[B]

Well, I think it was pulling on your. I'm gonna say childhood traumas, but the things that you feel like you were lacking and, like, how you found that in her, I think naturally, it's like your body and your brain, it wants to fall back into those patterns. That felt comforting.

[A]

Yes, exactly. So, yeah. So she. I say to her, I would really like to talk in person. And I'm like, where do you live? And she's like, chandler, I'm in Mesa. They're right next to each other. I realized she lives, like, 15 minutes away. And I'm like, can I come talk to you in person? And she's like, yeah, I'm sure the cats would love to see you. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I get to see my cats. Like, they're all still alive. Like, I was so stoked, but I'm Also, like, driving. And I asked my wife. I woke her up, and I was like, can I do this? And she was like, if that's what you need to do. Like, I trust you. Very honest with my wife. Tell her everything. So, yeah, I'm driving there. I'm out loud being like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Like, I can't believe this is finally happening. This is crazy. It's like. Like I said, it's just so weird because I have that part of me that's, like, excited to see her because I miss her, and then that part of me that's just, like, so mad and, like, you're disgusting. So I get there. She looks exactly the same, just a little older. And she has a nice house now. She's a veteran, so she got, like, a loan through the va. She got a house, whatever. It's nice. And we just sat in her living room and talked. And I let her know that, like, it caused a lot of trauma and pain in my life. But I'm at the very beginning of my healing journey. My wife has autism, and it's very noticeable. And it was extremely offensive to me that Rennie told me that she thinks what happened between us happened because she got diagnosed with autism recently. And in for me, I have adhd, so, like, it takes me a while to process. So in the moment, I wasn't mad. I just was kind of asking her more questions, like, well, what. What about you? Do you think, like, she's also not diagnosed by the way she diagnosed herself? She. She shows me this note that she has on her phone. It's very long, and it's all the. The reasons and, like, symptoms that she has that she thinks she has autism. And genuinely, I think that she's probably right. But after this, like, encounter, I got really angry because I was like, autism and pedophilia have no correlation. If anything, people with autism are very much by the book, and so if they know something's illegal, they're not going to do it, or they'll probably have a panic attack. And so I just. I got really put off and angry about that. I let my wife know about it. It made her extremely upset, too. And at this point, I just didn't talk to her again, and she didn't talk to me either. So I would say another year went by. Yeah, one year, April of 2025, I decided that I was ready to. To report her. And so I basically, I did it by calling the police. And of course, you know, I call the Mesa police. Tell them the entire thing. And then they tell me I have to call the. The Chandler police, because that's where she is. And then I do that, and they say, no, it has to be Mesa because that's where the first crime took place. Like, it was such a pain in the butt. So I do that, and then I get, like, scheduled to go talk to a detective. I found out she was a woman, and I was really happy to hear that. And I go and talk to her. I felt really better after. And she's like, yeah, that's really normal. And so she told me the first thing I'm gonna do. And this is Mesa police, by the way. The first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna call your mom. I'm gonna ask her, like, her side of the story and all that. I gave her a giant piece of paper of every single person that knew about our relationship, that had seen us together, everything. I even gave her a phone number of another employee at the new foundation who was friends with her and hung out with her at a bar a couple times until she found out about our relationship. Yeah. So I do all that, and I'm expecting her to call my mom. And like, a month goes by, and my mom's like, I still haven't heard from her. And I'm like, that's so weird. Like, she said the first thing she was going to do is call you. Another month goes by, another month goes by, another month goes by, and I'm starting to get upset. And so I posted like, a TikTok about it. And I've also called her twice. She's not answering. I left one voicemail. And, yeah, I'm just frustrated. So I post a TikTok about it, and a day later I get this message in my inbox. And it's. It's from this, like, pretty good and known, like, film director. And I was like. Like, she was like, do you want to be in a documentary about, like, state care in Arizona and, like, the troubles of it? I saw your TikTok and what happened to you, and I would, like. I think you would be a really good person for this documentary. And so I was like, definitely. So I go to my first interview for the documentary. It's actually the one that's in the trailer of it. And telling my story for the first time. It made me have more realizations, and it made me like it. Having somebody for the first time want to hear my story and tell me that's so messed up. I can't believe nobody did anything and, like, validated it so much, like. Like, and wanted me there to tell my story. Like, it. I don't know, it did something for me. Like, and it made me realize, like, how bad it was, what happened to me. And I still was so behind in my healing journey that I ended up calling the director, like, two days later, because me and her have become really good friends. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, she really is, like, a P word. Like, I just got the 2012 police report back and spent hours sobbing in the shower because it says that she got fired from the new foundation for inappropriate relations with patients. And it was like, when I read that all of the grooming that she did just disappeared. And it was like, holy fuck, she's a pedophile. And so I call Rowena. That's her name, the director. And I tell her this, and she's like, you know, I could tell during our first interview that you were still at the very beginning of your healing process. Process. And I wanted to tell you, like, you know, she's a pedophile. Right. But I wanted you to come to that realization on your own. And I did. And I. I've. I've lost my closest family member to death. And, like, I have to say, I have never cried that hard in my entire life. Than I did when I found out why she got, like, got fired from the new foundation. Like, I. I was just flabbergasted. I was like, wow, I'm actually not special.

[B]

Like, that's exactly what I was gonna say.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was gonna say. I'm sure there's also the. The hurt and the feelings of, like, you. It sound. It sounds bad saying it, but.

[A]

Because I am special. But, like, she made me feel like I'm more special than anything. And, like, our love is so, like, out of this world.

[B]

You knew it wasn't right on her end. And obviously, like, your. Your mom thought it was wrong this. All this stuff was happening, that you knew this wasn't a good dynamic. It did make you feel like, oh, but she chose me. Like, I'm special. Even if she's. Even if she's telling people, oh, we're waiting to be together till she's older. Like, it makes you feel special. And then just to hear that she was basically targeting all, you know, younger, underage kids, it's sick.

[A]

Yep. And it just. I don't know. It was like I was grieving our entire relationship, and I don't know. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't Feel like you abused someone you love. But, like, I felt in that moment like she never loved me. Like, just like you said, like I wasn't special, like, in that way. It sounds so weird.

[B]

It does.

[A]

But, yeah.

[B]

That is, when you're in a relationship, no matter how right, wrong, whatever it is, that's part of it, you feel like someone's choosing you. You feel special.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So besides any of the dynamics it

[A]

takes away from that, you put that so well.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I was like. You just, like, figured out what I was trying to say.

[B]

It's difficult because it's like, you don't want it to sound, like, wrong in any way because it is such like a. It's almost like this tiptoe subject.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's taboo. It's people. People don't know. There isn't really right verbiage for it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so it's hard to explain.

[A]

And it's weird telling someone you're not special because, like, you don't mean it in, like, a certain way, but you mean in another way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Did you ever tell her that you were going to report her or anything like that?

[A]

So after I got no response from the detective, it's actually the next part of the story. Perfect timing for that question. I started making poor choices in my investigation. I messed it up a little. I emailed her and I told her what I did, and I said, you should go turn yourself in. And at this point, my Stockholm syndrome is at the point where I still believe that she loved me a little bit. And, like, I'm like, I feel like she would turn herself in if she knew. Not right now, but I don't feel that way now. But, like, if she knew just how bad she hurt me, like, I think I feel like she would do it. And she's very mentally ill. So, like, I don't even feel like she would get any time. So I messaged her that, and she is just like, stop posting tiktoks about me. Like, stop. Like, stop messaging me. I haven't heard from any detective. Like, you've never changed. And I just got so upset. And the only people who knew that I went and saw her that last time were my wife, her, and my mom. And all of a sudden, on TikTok, this random account, comments on a TikTok about her. And it says, so funny because Jessica showed up at her door a year ago begging for her back. It's a compulsion, I'm sure. And then she says, this part is crazy. Picture this, a mentally ill Teenager abusing a disabled adult. Disabled autistic adult, she said. And I was just like. I was so flabbergasted. And people on TikTok were like, are you blaming a minor for an adult, like, grooming them? And so I knew right away it was her.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Obviously, nobody else knows about that. And I was just like, I can't even believe that that's her justification. Like, she genuinely thinks a kid manipulated her into a relationship. Oh, my God, that's wild to me. Oh. And basically after this, I am. I'm just. I'm angry. And it's now November. I reported in April. At this point, I've left three voicemails. I've called six times. So I call the, like, it's like she works at, like, this, like, sex crimes advocate center, the detective. And so I call the advocate center, and she gives me the sergeant's number, and she's like, call her sergeant. Just, like, leave a voicemail, and they'll definitely get back to you. And I'm like, okay. So I do that. And then the director of the documentary, she's just really helping me with this healing process. And she gives me, like, a number of, like, sexually abused, like, Children of America's, like, phone number, helpline or something. So, like, I call them, and then they report it, and they get, like, the task force on it. So I'm actually thinking that, like, shit, things are happening, like, the task force is on my case, whatever. So now, probably about two or three months ago now, so it's been over a year. I get a call from the detective finally, right? And yeah, she calls me and she says, so I talked to Rennie. She let me know that you told her about the investigation. Also, I also heard that you reported to somebody else. I didn't appreciate that. She said that I didn't appreciate that. And I said back to her. I was like, I'm really so. I wish I had a different response, but it takes me a while to process things. Like I said. But I said, I'm really sorry. I just didn't hear from you for so long. Like, I didn't even know if there was a case going on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she's like, well, I talked to Rennie. We can't prove any sex crime, so we're closing your case. And at this point, like, I thought, like, a big case was happening. Like, the task force is on it, like, And I was just like, why?

[B]

It takes one second to call somebody back.

[A]

But I'm extremely proud of myself, because if something like this happened to me before, I would have slit my wrist, like try to kill myself, all that. And I have it on video of me finding out because I have cameras throughout my house and I'm in my little boy's room alone, like they're in the other room and I like fall to my knees for a second and I'm just like, kind of like. I let out like a mad groan, loudly. And I said effing B. And then I heard my kids and I got up and I continued my day and taking care of them and because they matter the most. And I was honestly dumbfounded that like I reacted so well. And I was really proud of myself. I think that the detective like was mad at me for contacting another like corporation or whatever and for contacting her sergeant. And I think she just took Rennie's word for it because of that and then just closed the case. And I think that's genuinely what happened. I asked her, I'm like, like, can we get her for like grooming or like giving me alcohol or something? And she's like, grooming isn't, grooming isn't illegal in the state of Arizona. And then that was it.

[B]

Thanks for your sympathy.

[A]

Looking to strengthen your health and well being, tune in to the Dr. Tina show, one of Apple podcast top alternative health shows. I'm Dr. Tina Moore, naturopathic physician and chiropractor and I cover topics like metabolic health, chronic disease diseases, pain management and more with expert interviews and solo episodes. I keep it no nonsense with a science backed approach to empower you to improve your health and resilience. New episodes every Thursday. Produced by Drake Peterson and Wellness Loud.

[B]

It's one of Britain's most notorious crimes, the killing of a wealthy family at White House Farm. But I got a tip that the story of this famous case might be all wrong. I know there's going to be a twist one day, a massive twist.

[A]

At every level of the criminal justice system. There's been a cover up in this case. I'm Heidi Blake.

[B]

Blood Relatives is a new series from in the Dark and the New Yorker. Find it now in the in the Dark podcast feed.

[A]

Unfortunately, I forgot a major part. But right before I got that news from the detective, I was at work one day and all of a sudden I, my like host comes up to me, I'm a server and she says, jess, there's somebody at the front asking you, asking for you by name. And I'm like, that's weird. So I go up and this old man is standing up There. And he's like, come here. He brings me outside. And I'm like, what is happening right now? And this is after she told me not to contact her again. I responded to her email and said, please, I would love to go to court. Please, let's go to court. And I called her a pedophile in it. You're a pedophile. And I would love to get the justice I deserve besides calling her a pedophile. I've never, like, called her names. I've never threatened her. I've never done anything like that. And I got served with a restraining order during my investigation before it got closed. Like, only because I'm talking about what happened to me on TikTok and because I sent her two emails. Two. One telling her, why did you post a video of our cats dying? Literally getting put down. If anything, you should have posted, like, a compilation of, like, her happy moments. Like, that was so hard to see. And then one other saying, turn. Turn yourself in. I'm sorry. Well, two more. Turn yourself in. And then her response, and then me saying, please, I'd love to go to court. So I got served with this training order. I swear. She, like, posted something, like, said something on ChatGPT and then had it, like, form it for her and then copied and pasted it and, like, asked chat gbt, I know she uses it. Like, asked what she needs to say in order to get it approved. She said that I've sent her hundreds, if not thousands of voice recordings and that I made fun of her disability, which I did not. I said that pedophilia and autism don't go together. That's what I said about her disability. And I was just like, this is crazy. I am fighting it because it's absolutely bullshit. So we go to court and I have to see my abuser again. I luckily, like, had my mom go with me, and I was so grateful because, like, she did not want to go. Like, she. She hates Rennie. And the whole way there, she was not in a good mood. Like, she didn't want to do it, but she was doing it for me during the court hearing, like, it was the first and only time that I had my mom there. I had Rennie there. I had Rennie's sister there. And I said what Rennie did to me and how it was wrong. And it was like me and my mom had all of this, like, stuff between us that we didn't even know was there. And it was like. It's like Rennie took me away from my mom. That's what my mom felt like. And in that moment, it was like I was fixing it. Like, it was such a beautiful moment. Like, I was like, no. Like, my mom was right. Like, almost, like, to Rennie sitting right there, and she was so weird. Like, she, like, randomly, like, her lawyer, like, was asking her questions, and she was like, and you guys didn't talk for a while after she moved out, right? And then Rennie said, yeah, after we separated, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, and when you say separated, you mean move out, right? And then another time, she ran. Like, ask her about the new foundation. Like, you worked there from this time to this time. And then she's like, yeah, I quit. Like, just randomly. Nobody asked you if you quit. Like, she just made herself obviously look so guilty. And unfortunately, simply because I responded to her after she said, don't respond or I'll contact my lawyer, Technically, that's harassment, so I couldn't get it removed. But honestly, I'm so happy I did it because I healed that between me and my mom. And the judge was, like, looking at her weird and, like, was, like, kind of like, he. He literally prefaced his decision by saying, this does not mean that there's not another case in here, like, that you shouldn't pursue. But, you know, she specifically asked you not to contact her, and you did, and you called her a word that isn't true, technically. And so, yeah, I couldn't get it removed. But I'm extremely happy I did it because I documented, like, everything that she said, and I thought it would help with my case, especially because, like, she admitted I lived with her underage. I had that proof. She admitted that she worked at the new foundation while I was there. She admitted all of that. So I really thought that that court hearing, like, really would help me. I even spent, like, a hundred dollars to, like, get it printed out. Like, all of that. I did so much for this case. I did stuff that I never did in my adult life. Like, I went and, like, got things notarized. Like, I never did any of that. I put so much effort into it, more effort than I had ever. And I'm so proud of myself. And I feel like I did it to try to justify my darkness and my actions after the fact. And I realized, like, just because I got, like, a. I didn't get justice doesn't mean it didn't happen. Like, I almost was trying to prove to myself that it happened in order to feel better for the way that I reacted to trauma. But everybody knows it happens sometimes. I genuinely, like, think it didn't happen because it's been so long and being called a liar so much is like, it almost makes you feel like you're going crazy. And that's why having people in my life like Katie and like, people that were there is, like, really important to me because it, like, helps me to be like, okay, wait, I'm not going crazy. This really happened. This was wrong. And so I'm really happy because in the documentary too, they caught all of that with my mom after the fact. Like, me and her, like, crying, hugging in the parking lot. Like, it was just such a good moment. And I'm really happy it went the way it did. If it, if I did get, like, the restraining order removed and, like, also got justice, that obviously would have been, like, a perfect outcome. But you can't do. You can't get it all. But honestly, just simply, like, being on TikTok and telling my story, like, that has healed me. It's made me process it, like, genuinely. And the investigation was the hardest thing I've ever done. And honestly, I think, like, the system with, like, reporting and like, what you need in order to get justice is absolute bullshit. But I'm so happy I did it because I was able to, like, it was horrible, but I processed everything that happened through it. I don't recommend reporting unless you have hard, hard, hard evidence, like video I

[B]

go through that is like, the amount

[A]

of times I had to tell my story was absolutely wild. And I've heard other people, people talk about that too. And it's, it's just, it's just not right. Like, you can have so much, like you can have admissions like she said I was.

[B]

Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me, right?

[A]

But, oh, there's no sex acts, so it's fine. There's no proof of sex acts. Like DCS and Arizona, like CPS there they came and did a tour of me and Rennie's condo. And Rennie set up a blanket and pillow on the side, like on the floor of our queen size bed and said that she slept there and I slept in the bed. And I remember the worker, like, being really weird and rude to us because she knew what was happening. Like, I think, and I don't think she could do anything about it. And that's the problem because you would think, like, I wanted to work, like, for that system because of what happened to me, but it's a broken system, so you can't even do anything to help. So I think the best Answer is like a nonprofit or even fostering kids. And this whole experience made me want to be a foster mom. I definitely want to wait till my kids now are like adults because I want to put everything into it. But yeah, I mean, I really, really, really want to foster like mentally ill teenagers because a lot of parents don't know what to do in that situation. And then they give them over to the state. And not knowing, like, my mom's brochure for the new foundation was impeccable. Like this seemed like the best treatment center ever. And they're horrible. And these like state ran facilities, they basically donate like hundreds of thousands of dollars to political parties and then give the kids like really poor care. The same year that I was in State Care in 2010, there was around 19,000 foster kids that year, which was the highest in the entire country ever. And 75% of kids that are missing in Arizona are foster kids. One really known case in 2025 was Emily pike, but she went missing from Sunshine, I believe, in Mesa. Side note, I actually think there was somebody on here that was in that group home. But so many bad things have happened there and they ended up finding her dead at a park. A pregnant native foster kid was, was also found murdered. Like, it's just horrible. And these places will just let you go. And Arizona is also a very big state for like sex trafficking. And it's just, it's not right. And like something needs to be done about it. And I just can't even believe that like these places can donate to political parties. Like that's wild to me. And then give really poor care and hire people that don't even have the training that they should have to be around like these kids.

[B]

I think too, it's crazy to me that regardless of proof of sexual acts, I mean she was supposed to be an adult helping a child in this program. There should have been no reason why you were ever staying at her house, why there was ever any type of communication like that. Right? There should be enough. And it's sad that it's not. And I think unfortunately, you know, we are in a world where thankfully some people do get the justice and then other people, they're left with having to advocate for themselves. And that's amazing as well. It's unfortunate because like you said, the system is broken. But I think that how you said you've listened to a good amount of episodes and heard episodes where you've listened multiple times because it helps you feel validated and like you're not alone and I think that's the beauty and the importance of sharing your story because it creates this. This platform in this space and this community where you don't even need to directly speak to somebody to feel heard and understood. And, like, you aren't alone in a situation. And I think sometimes the most we can do is spread awareness so that more people are aware of these things because they're just not talked about or they're not. They're not taken very seriously, it seems.

[A]

Yeah, I feel like that's why I was. I was going back and forth about sharing, like, hitting my mom and stuff like that. But, like, it really is so important to, like, be like, if. If other people on this show weren't so honest about such dark things, like, I wouldn't have been so brave in order to share that. And I think that's the beauty, because letting that out feels so good. Like, it really does. Like, I. Like. And I've done the work to, like, forgive myself and everything. And so I think it's important to, like, be honest about that kind of stuff, because there can be other people that have done that in their past that have like, completely put in the work and change, that just, like, still hate themselves for doing something like that.

[B]

Well, I think, too, it's the shame and the embarrassment about things that have happened to people, whether it's something that's happened to them or something that they have done right. And I think it's those that shame and that embarrassment that make. In the fear of sharing it of, like, GH like, what would people think of me? What. Like, I even don't feel comfortable sharing it. But like you said, I think sharing it is accepting that it happened, and it's not trying to. We know we can't go back and change it.

[A]

And I think taking accountability is huge.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And also, it shows how deep the grooming went and, like, just how, like, good she had me.

[B]

You were in. You know, and I think a lot of people have been in a place where they do things that they would never do now.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I would. I. I'm. I wouldn't hurt a fly now.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, so much time has gone by.

[B]

It's part of the human experience. And it's not to say that it's right or to make an excuse, but it's real and it's raw. And there's a lot of people that have been in those types of moments where they might reflect and be like, I hated myself then. Like, I can't believe that I allowed myself to be that way or I allowed somebody to bring that out of me. And in those moments, we might not even realize that that's happening. It takes time and experience and maturity and healing to realize what, you know, that person was doing to you was wrong. What they did to you was grooming, that they're a pedophile. But those things come with. With time and understanding.

[A]

Yeah. And the people that, like, stayed in my life when I was that toxic, like Lynn and, like, my friend Joanne in Long beach. And, like, just like a lot of people, I love them that much more that they loved me at my worst and still, like, now we have such an amazing, great friendship.

[B]

To see you grow, which is incredible.

[A]

Yes. And, like, it's. I love talking to people, too, that just know my history. Like, it. I don't know, it just, like, feels deeper. But, yeah, I mean, I've had such amazing people in my life that have helped me through this, and I feel so much less guilt for things that I've done now that I've processed, like, what happened to me. And I feel like it made it make sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm like, that's why I was doing that, because at the time, I was like, why am I like this? Like, I'm not a good person. Well, I think, too, it.

[B]

It goes to show that because obviously there are. There's a. There can be a lot of overlap on this show. People will go through something similar, or they can find comfort in hearing someone's story that they feel like I can relate to that, or I could, whether it's a feeling, an experience, whatever it may be. But I think the importance of also hearing all of these different stories that may have some overlap is that it shows that while yes, some kids might have a horrible childhood that might lead to things happening or lead to decisions that they make, there can be other kids that they might have a childhood where to some people, it might not be so bad, but because of circumstances that it led to, for example, you having to be in a group home or you going to get mental help, it was something that kind of was an adult took advantage of a vulnerable child. And that, to me, even though you. You sought out comfort in her in ways that you might not have found in your childhood, at certain times, those two things were so separate. And I think that people need to realize, because I think it's very easy to judge a book by its cover, and people need to realize. My point is that it can happen to anybody, you know, and it doesn't have to be Just people that are just children that have horrible childhoods. You know, it doesn't have to be damaged children. It could be children that maybe they are struggling with mental health at some point in their life, you know, whatever the reason may be. And then completely separate from that, somebody with serious issues took advantage of that situation, you know, and that kind of led you into a whole nother chapter of your life that you had to heal from and sort through and whatever else. But I think it's just really important not to judge a book by its cover. Not to. And also to realize that every situation is unique on its own and not

[A]

to think that pedophiles all look the same. It's not just your creepy, like, old weirdo, you know, it's somebody that you look at for help, and that's why it'd be somebody that, you know. Yeah. It's so important to talk to your kids because if you can't even trust teachers at school, like, in Arizona, there was, like, very recently two female teachers that both got caught grooming the same student. But it's like, if you can't even trust teachers, like, you can't touch. Trust doctors. I mean, like, you can't trust anything, anyone, then you have to talk to your kids. And it's really important to me to constantly be asking my kids, how does this person make you feel? I think it's really important. And I highly recommend, don't let your kids texting text with an adult. Like, just don't. Don't.

[B]

There's no reason.

[A]

There's no reason why they should be texting with an adult. Yeah, I think that would have. If. I mean, if we didn't text, none of that would have been happening. So I think too.

[B]

Another thing I want to mention, and this is no fault of any, like, your parents at by any means, but I think your story also educates in that sense and even for yourself, you know, like, there are things that I'm sure, to a degree you can look back on and be like, well, as a parent, I would have done this, this, and this. And it almost. I love that, though, because it breaks a cycle. And at the end of the day, it's very easy for us to look at our parents and say what they should have done or could have done. But at the end of the day, they're just humans like us.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Just a little bit older.

[A]

But that doesn't. It was a process forgiving my mom, even.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's the thing, though, is, like, I'm sure It has taught her a lot throughout the process. And it's something where just because they're our parents and they're adults and, yes, their job is to protect us, they're not perfect either. They don't know how to handle situations, or sometimes they might feel like it's just easier to just let them do their thing when it comes to their kids. You know, I think it's, like, so

[A]

beautiful that you already have that mentality before becoming a mother.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it took me becoming a mom to realize that.

[B]

Well, it's. At the end of the day, everyone is just a human trying to make it through, you know, And I think that everybody that comes on this show is, whether they're already healed or they're still healing or they're trying to heal, that's what the goal is. It's to spread awareness. It's to heal. It's to help themselves, it's to help others. And of course, I think there's always going to be some people in. In these stories that are at fault, without a doubt, you know, and we know who the. What's the word I'm looking for? Not the demon aggressor. Yes. Yeah, we'll say that.

[A]

Who they are in the story.

[B]

But then there's also these. These people in the story throughout that enable.

[A]

It almost enable.

[B]

But also, like, needed education, too.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And that's the point of.

[A]

My mom didn't even know what grooming was. She never heard that word back then.

[B]

Educates.

[A]

And.

[B]

And I think that that's why sharing stories is so important and why the repetition of these stories is so important, because they're not talked about in this depth. You know, you hear it. And even to this day, I mean, people. I will tell friends and people all the time, like, yeah, I'm having someone on that was groomed by this person or that person, and they still don't understand what that means. And even for yourself, you know, as you were telling your story, I can't remember what part it was, but, yeah,

[A]

I didn't realize something was grooming something.

[B]

Right. It's the. The fingering aspect. It's like. It's almost in a way, I think people are. They're testing the water.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're seeing. What can I say? And how can I say this in a way that makes it so normal and so comfortable that if they were to do it to you, it would be like, oh, this is cool. Or this is that, you know, and so many things are. That's what that is. And I think now we just kind of have the right wording for it. But it's still. Is something that people aren't very familiar with. Yeah. And they don't know the signs and things. There's a lot of things that are looked at as innocent or blown off and it shouldn't be because people are sick in their own ways, but they are very sick.

[A]

I think also the education that like you can't even trust state ran mental facilities. I didn't know that, like that's.

[B]

You can't trust. And I hate to say this because it can seem negative, but you really can't trust anybody. I think trust needs be to. To be earned. I think you have to tread very lightly and you have to be careful. And it's sad, but once again, at the end of the day, just because you are law enforcement or you work at a facility or a hospital or whatever, that doesn't make you any less or any more human. We're all human, you know, and some people still have these sicknesses and flaws and even if they're in a career that we're supposed to trust and feel safe and protected and that. That's what's scary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's life.

[A]

It's really scary.

[B]

And it's shit. But yeah, you're amazing.

[A]

And there's so many positive things to look at with life as well. So like my two kids.

[B]

Yes. And I think the fact that you're willing and able to continue to share your story because you know that like you said too, it can go back to when you don't get justice. You can start to think to yourself, is it me? You know, like, am I crazy? Is my story really not that important that people wouldn't think that people need physical proof of this happening to me to hold this person accountable. So I, I commend you for still wanting to share your story and spread awareness and, and help other children. I mean, that's, that's a beautiful thing. And that's something that I think when you get to that point, will heal you in so many ways and will be so full circle. Because sometimes, unfortunately, it takes people going through these horrible things to become someone that can help people so much. Because you get it.

[A]

Yeah. Because I would never want to be a foster mom if I didn't go through that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, I also want to say, like, thank you for commending me for sharing my story. But like Rowena, the director and you wanting to hear it and caring is literally what helped me heal. So I thank you for that, like, majorly.