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A
This episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Big smiles, rocking tunes and epic drinks. Dutch Bros. Is all about you choose from a variety of customizable handcrafted beverages like our Rebel energy drinks, coffees, teas and more.
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Download the Dutch Bros app for a free medium drink.
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Plus, find your nearest shop, order ahead and start earning rewards offer valid for new app users only. Free medium drink Reward upon registration. 14 day expiration terms apply. See DutchBros.com this episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know, to check the date of the big game first before you accidentally buy tickets on your 20th wedding anniversary and have to spend the next 20 years of your marriage making up for it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings. Vary terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.
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B
My name is Lizzie Enns, and I come from the strictest form of Amish community. And today I want to share with you my story of growing up in the Amish community and what that was like and what it took for me to then take that leap of faith and leave the community and start a completely new life. If you don't know anything about the Amish, there's all these different orders of Amish, and I want to talk a little bit about the differences because there's a lot of misconceptions of the different orders of Amish, and sometimes people put them all in one, you know, under one umbrella, and they're like, oh, you know, this is what all Amish do. And that's just not true. So when I share my story, I'm. I'm strictly speaking for my experience, my community, and what that was like.
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A
And you were from this one of the strictest forms, right?
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B
Yes.
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A
Okay.
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B
Yeah. It's called Schwartz and Trooper Amish. And then some other orders are called order, old order and new order. And those orders are very well known in Lancaster and Ohio and different states, too. But those are, like, the two biggest ones, and they're much more modern. Like, they'll. They'll be able to, you know, ride around in electric scooters and bikes. And they have. If they have a business, they have phones, you know, so they're much, much more advanced. Now where I'm from is much more strict. And so we didn't have any indoor plumbing. We didn't have any running Water. We didn't have the gas lights, we had to use kerosene lamps. We had to have outhouses, we had to have wood burning stoves. So everything was much slower paced. Now I, I will say, like even in the old order, like I just visited an old order family in Arthur, Illinois the other day. And even that's still slower pace than the modern world. Right. But it's, it's still quite different. When you go to the Schwarzenegger homage, it's so different. And where the rules there are much more strict in the Schwartz and Trouble Amish. So to kind of paint a picture of where the Amish even come from, they're actually a break off from the Anabaptists. So the Anabaptists broke off from the Roman Catholics, because they didn't the Roman Catholics. Like when that era was going on, it was very much governed with the. The church was governed by the government. And the Anabaptists said, we don't believe that the government should have that much control over our religious beliefs. And so they broke off from the Roman Catholics. And Anabaptist basically means like, you don't get baptized as a baby. You know, you get baptized as an adult. And when they did that, there was a lot of people killed in the process. So there were martyrs. Like, I didn't realize until last year how many people got murdered in this process. And I read an amazing book last year on the origin of the Anabaptist. And that then led into the Mennonites and the Amish. So there was a guy named Menno Simons that broke off from the Anabaptist and started the Mennonites. Now the Mennonites are an even next step higher from the old order and the new order. So they'll have electricity, they'll drive cars. And again, there's different versions of Mennonites, just like there's different versions of. I, I was talking to someone the other day about different orders of Amish, and it's like they have their own denominations within their churches too. So it's the same thing with the Mennonites. They have different denominations within the Mennonite community. So Menno Simon started the Mennonites, and then there was a guy named Jacob Almond that broke off from the Mennonites, and he started the Amish.
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A
Okay.
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B
And what's funny though is this was right around like in the 1800s when the steam engines came out. The, the Amish were like, the world's getting too modern and the, and we need to stay here, like we don't, we can't, you know, be that modern because in their viewpoint is like, if we get too modern, that brings us farther away from God.
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A
Okay.
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B
So that was their, their. One of their reasons is like, yeah, we gotta, you know, stay very conservative here.
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A
So is the real. You said the religion. There's different beliefs as well in different groups of Amish and then. But they all believe in God. Okay. Yeah, but it's different than like a Christianity belief or something like that.
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B
Well, so nowadays there are actually some Amish that are very much Christ. Like, they're, you know, they believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord. And, and I think that's becoming more and more common.
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A
Okay.
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B
They, they always taught us about God, but Jesus was more like a metaphor, just another story in the Bible. It wasn't like, hey, Jesus is Lord or anything like that. Never heard about any, anything like that until after I left.
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A
Okay.
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B
But God to them was more like the person that was up in the sky, like, waiting to beat you over the head if wrong. It's like there's God in his rules, but then there's the church and their rules. And the majority of the rules that they have and that they make up is man made. Like, they just say, hey, it's almost as if it's like, the harder we can make this for you, the better. Because your life is supposed to be hardworking, but also difficult. And so anything that comes in to make your life easier that isn't convenience or modern is considered worldly.
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A
Got it.
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B
So that's where the Amish kind of like started with Jacob Almond. What was funny about Jacob Almond is at some point he was like, yeah, this is going too far. I don't want to, you know, we need to stop it. And there were a lot of people that were like, no, we need to stay and continue with this. And then Jacob Amin ended up leaving. Like, he didn't stay off.
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A
Wow. Okay.
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B
So he, he saw early on that that wasn't something that he wanted to continue on. So, yeah, yeah, they, they continued, continued on in the Amish community from there. And they were from all over Europe. Switzerland, Germany, France. They were even from France. There was actually a settlement that lived in Russia. They were wheat farmers in Russia, where Ukraine is now. And then they got pushed out of that area and then they immigrated over to Kansas and became wheat farmers in Kansas.
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A
Okay. And then with the schooling, is it homeschooling?
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B
Kind of. But they have their own school, one room, school houses.
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A
Okay.
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B
And they'll have like five or six families and the kids will all go there and. But we only went from first through eighth grade.
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A
Yeah, that's what I was when I was researching it. I was like, it said that it ends at eighth. Right. And then is the, what is the reasoning behind that?
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B
So we were not allowed to study science, history, algebra, anything like that. It was just like, hey, all your basics, like your, your reading, your writing, your math, your English, some vocabulary. We also learned German in school. And in their eyes it was like that's all that you need. Like you don't need anything else. And science and history was like, you're getting to know too much about the world and that's not necessary. Yeah, not needed. Weren't going to go to college, so didn't need any of that. And it was just the basic stuff. And when I graduated from eighth grade at the graduation card said graduated to housework. Right.
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A
So that's what I was going to say. So after eighth grade, you're kind of being pushed into more of like your everyday work and then that's what you're being taught.
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B
Yeah. So you graduate 8th grade and then you, you're just like, all right, now I'm here to do housework. What do you, what age do you graduate? 8th grade, like 13, 14?
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A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
Somewhere around there. So by that time you have a few years before you then like start dating.
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A
Right.
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B
And so that in between is just like, hey, you're just, you're just a girl that is there to help take care of the farm and learn how to sew and cook and clean and do all those things.
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A
And none of the women work as far as like a job. It's like they're working.
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B
The only time that they really do is they do hire like the young girls out as hired mates, you know, within the community. So we were, we did that. And then there were some farms around our area. There was a, there was a produce farm in our area and they would hire us to go pick their vegetables. So like we would go to the produce farm and pick their beans and tomatoes and all that stuff. So we were allowed to do that. But the one thing that we were not allowed to do, which we got asked for quite a bit, is we would have people ask my mom if we could, us girls could like clean houses for them. And my mom wouldn't let us do it because they knew that if we get exposed to modern technology, hey, we're going to a non homage home with electricity. We're going to get exposed to their tv, their Music, using a vacuum cleaner for vacuuming, using electricity and all that stuff. And she wouldn't allow it.
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A
Okay. And then the clothing, it's all very covered, right?
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B
Yes. Yeah. So the dresses are from head, like basically from here.
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A
Okay.
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B
Couldn't show any skin here. All the way down to your ankles.
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A
Okay.
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B
And then the sleeves, we had long sleeves. And in the summer we were allowed to roll our sleeves up, but only to our elbows. We couldn't like roll them. We couldn't show any more skin than that. And then our hair had to be up in, in a very traditional type of bun that they did their way. And then it had to be covered with a covering 24 7. Well, not 24 7. When we were sleeping, we were allowed to have her hair uncover, but other than that it had to be covered.
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A
And were the schools co ed? Okay.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So then with boys and dating and how did that go? Like, was that, were there strict rules around that?
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B
Yeah. Let's talk about dating.
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A
Okay. Yes, let's do it.
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B
This always trips people up. And I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back and share a little bit more about the lifestyle too. But the dating is peculiar. It like blows people's minds. And to, to this day, it also doesn't make sense to me. But that's, that's what they did. And I think that now. So when I share this, keep in mind that some of them have actually changed some of the, the way that they do dating. So I don't know how relevant this is to all of them now, but when I was there, this is how we dated. So at 16 and a half, we were allowed to start dating. And the way that they dated is, let's say it was a Saturday night and we, you know, went to bed. The girls never went out. It was always only the boys. And so I could be sleeping in my bedroom. And on a Saturday night, you know, it could be like 10, 11 or 12 o'clock. All of a sudden, here comes a horse and buggy with, you know, three, four boys on them, on the buggy. And they'll just come up to your room. And so here's, here's what will happen though. The guy that wants to go on a date with you, he won't come up right away. The other guys will come up and they will ask me whether or not I want to go on a date with the guy that's outside still.
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A
Okay.
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B
So I can say yes or no. And if I say yes, then they will go out and get the guy. And they'll come back up and all of them will just hang out for a bit. And then everybody that's not there for the date will leave. And the guy that's there, he'll stay there. And then we're supposed to dim the lights or cut the lights, which is not very bright to begin with. They have kerosene lamps and then go to bed. And the way that they cord, it's called bundling. So they, they will lay in bed, no sex allowed. But they're lame. That. And then at some point they'll have conversations, but at some point the guy takes the lead and he'll wrap his arms around the girl, and then she's supposed to wrap her arms around him. And then they're supposed to kind of like, rock around for a bit. Really?
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A
I've never heard of that.
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B
Yeah. And then, and then he will either, like, kiss you on the lips. On the lips or on the cheek.
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A
Okay.
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B
So like, the girl is just supposed to, like, follow suit. So if he kisses you on the cheek. Well, you're supposed to kiss him on the cheek, but if it's on the lips and like, it's reciprocated there.
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A
So that's like the first step.
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B
That's the first step. And then. And it's. And the rule is like, you, you rock like three times back and forth. And then there's kiss. And then you, like, let go. And then you, like, go back to talking or whatever. If it's, if it's really boring, they'll probably fall asleep.
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A
Okay.
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B
And so for some, they'll do that, you know, two, three times during the night. And then they. The guy gets up early morning before the rest of the family gets up, usually like 4 o'clock or something like that. He gets up and. And he leaves. If he really likes the girl, he can ask her if he can come back two weeks later. Because they can only see each other every two weeks.
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A
And what is the reasoning behind that?
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B
Good question. I have no idea.
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A
So are you allowed, like, do they say that you're allowed to have sex eventually?
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B
No.
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A
Okay.
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B
Strictly prohibited. Against all the rules. If you're caught having sex, like, before marriage, like, there's a lot of shame and punishment that comes with it. It happens. Yeah. Sometimes shotgun weddings happen. Because that happened. Sorry, you're.
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A
Okay.
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B
Sometimes that happens. How? What? The percentage of people that you know have sex before marriage. I. I wouldn't know. But then what's interesting is if the girl, like, wants him to come back, then he can come back. And see her two weeks later. Not until their third date can he ask her if she wants to be his girlfriend.
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A
Okay.
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B
So then if she says yes now, all of a sudden, they're a couple and they're, you know, it's what they call going steady. And they'll only see each other every two weeks.
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A
And then do the families meet? Is there anything like that?
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B
No. So here's. Here's the kicker. Like, the families. Like, they'll know who the families are, but they. They will never get together in daylight. They're not allowed to be seen together in daylight. They can only see each other during the night or at nighttime and every couple weeks.
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A
And then this is, like, a random question that just came to mind. But within the Amish community, would you say that for the most part, the men and women are very faithful? Or is there. Has there been, like, cases where it's kind of come out where.
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B
I've heard of a few.
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A
Okay.
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B
That they weren't, you know, that there was cheating that happened, but I. I don't know enough.
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A
Okay.
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B
To, like, really speak on that.
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A
Yeah.
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B
To be honest, like, I. I've heard stories of that, and I've also heard of some of them not being faithful within the Amish community. Like they were, you know, having an affair with someone outside of the community.
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A
Wow.
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B
That's, like, intense. Yeah.
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A
So opposite. You know, I feel like there's. And this is in general, but I feel like when there's such strict rules, there's a lot of people, obviously, that follow them. That's all that they know. But then I also think that there is other people that it's almost, like, intriguing to them of like. Like stepping outside of it a little bit and seeing, like. Okay, but what's this about? Why am I not allowed to do this? You know, because as humans, like, it's that curiosity.
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B
Yeah. I mean, they're human just like anybody else. But also think about it this way. Like, if someone outside the community has some weird fetish.
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A
Right.
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B
And they're like, oh, like, this is intriguing. Like, I've never seen or experienced anything of this. Like, they can, you know, pursue that.
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A
Yeah, for sure.
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B
Yeah.
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A
That's interesting.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And then what age are you allowed to get married?
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B
So usually the guys, typically, they don't get married until they're 21, because you're not allowed to keep your own money and make your own money until you're 21. So it's kind of frowned upon if a guy gets married before they're 21, and has like established themselves a little bit. The girls usually 19 and up. A lot of them don't get married until they're 20 or 21. Just depends on the age of the guy that they're dating. But they also can't get married unless they're a member of the church. So usually between 18 and 20 is when they become members of the church.
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A
And then is church something you're attending weekly?
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B
Every other week.
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A
Okay.
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B
Yeah. So they have church at. So they don't have their own church building. They have church at somebody's house. So the entire community takes turns having church at their house. That's every other week. And then the, the Sunday in between is considered like either Rest Sunday where it's like you don't do anything or that's your time to like go see family or friends or other people in the community.
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A
And then with the, with the marriage, are, is it like a normal proposal or is it different? No. Okay.
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B
No. So on one of the dates during the night, you know, is when I, I never experienced that when I was there. So I don't know how they.
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A
Right.
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B
They, if they just like come into an agreement like, hey, it's time, it's time, let's get married. Or the guy's like, hey, do you want to get married? Like, I don't know. Yeah, like how, how they do that, But I do know. So here's the crazy thing. Once they decide that they want to get married, they only have weddings in the winter time. And here's why. The something that people don't think about, they don't have refrigerators. So when you're cooking for, you know, 2, 300 people at a wedding, they have to have a way to keep the, the food cold. And so they get married in the winter so that it's more manageable with food preparation and all of that. And so they could say in the summer, all right, we're going to get married this winter. And so what they will then do is they will kind of look at the months that is the best fit because the wedding is at the girl's parents house.
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A
Okay.
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B
And so they might have six months of knowing, like, hey, this is the month that we're going to get married. But the public won't know until two weeks or a week and a half before the wedding. So the way that they then officially get engaged is at church.
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A
Okay, makes sense.
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B
Yeah. So they'll like be at church and it's always this like anticipation because some people are like, oh, we know these people are going to get married. And so at the end of a church service is when the bishop of the church announces the couple that is getting engaged, and. And that they're going to be getting married. And then that is the very first time that that couple gets seen in public together. Okay, so then.
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A
So prior to that, they cannot be seen in public.
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B
Okay, Not. Not during the day. So at the end of that church service, the guy will get up after the announcement, and then the girl will get up, they'll walk out, and then they leave church together for the first time.
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A
And then with housing, when are they. Are they allowed to just move in together? Like, whenever they can afford to? Is that how it works?
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B
After they're married?
- [21:51]
A
Okay, so.
- [21:52]
B
So they'll get engaged that Sunday, and then the wedding is always on a Tuesday or a Thursday. So they will get married either a week and a half later on a Thursday or two weeks later on a Tuesday. And after the wedding is over, they will typically take, you know, that following week, they already have a place planned out where they're going to move to. And then they'll move in together within that first week.
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A
And then with the houses, are they built by the Amish?
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B
Okay, yeah, Sometimes they'll buy, you know, other houses that were not built by the Amish. So, like, for example, like my parents, the house and the farm that. That I grew up on, they bought that farm from non Amish people. So it had electricity and all that stuff. And so what they had to do after they bought the farm is they had to go in and, like, take out all of the electricity and reconstruct it to make it good for the Amish. Right.
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A
Wow, that is crazy.
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B
Yeah.
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A
All right, so tell us more about the lifestyle. So I know you wanted to go to that.
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B
Yeah, yeah. So the lifestyle is. It's very hardworking. So, for example, like, we milk cows by hand. So every morning we had to get up and go milk cows by hand.
- [23:04]
A
Let me tell you, that is so much harder than I expected. It was like. Yes, listen, it was. It was like one of my main goals to milk a cow. And I thought it was going to be so easy. And when I went to the Amish farm that I was telling you about one time, I could barely get any milk out.
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B
It's like.
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A
It is a lot of work.
- [23:23]
B
Was it a jersey?
- [23:24]
A
I don't know.
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B
Was it a brown cow or was it a black and white cow?
- [23:29]
A
I want to say it was a brown cow.
- [23:31]
B
Okay, so maybe most people won't know this, but Guernsey cows and Jersey cows are the brown ones. The Jersey Jersey milk's the best milk ever. Like it's the richest, best milk ever. It has the most cream. I always call it the Mercedes of the milk. Yeah, it's my favorite. But Jersey cows and Guernsey cows are much harder to milk than Holstein cows, which. The Holstein cows are the black and white ones.
- [23:55]
A
Okay. And it was very rough.
- [23:57]
B
Yes. Yeah. And so like I, I, when I was in Illinois a couple days ago, I really wanted to go milk a cow. Cuz I haven't milked a cow in like 20 years. I was like, man, I don't know about these nails, right. I'm going to have to be really careful because that's the one thing is if you have sharp nails, they'll, they'll step and kick. Like you have to be very careful. But yeah, I, I milk cow so much that I got carpal tunnel.
- [24:21]
A
Really? And it takes hours, right, to like fully milk a cow?
- [24:25]
B
No, not if you're used to it. Like so could. So we would get up in the morning, go mill the cows. All my older brothers and some of us girls, like, we go milk the cows and we had about you know, 15 sometimes more cows. And you know, you can milk a cow and it would take you maybe 10, 15 minutes depending, you know, if it's a cow that when, when they just had a, a baby calf, they'll have more milk.
- [24:51]
A
Got it.
- [24:51]
B
So it's like really fresh, ready to come in. Yeah. Whereas if it's a cow that's like, like been being milk for six months or whatever and they're, you know, ready to calf again, it's, they're, they're not going to have as much milk.
- [25:03]
A
And you guys would always do it by hand. Right. Because there aren't there some like machines or something that can help?
- [25:09]
B
Yeah. So the old order and the new order, they primarily just use machines.
- [25:12]
A
Got it.
- [25:13]
B
Okay. Yeah, they don't, they don't do their hands, they don't do the hard way.
- [25:18]
A
Got it. Okay. So you would wake up every morning and milk the cows.
- [25:21]
B
Yeah. So we mill the cows, feed all the animals. That was like step one. And then so this always shocks everybody, But I have 18 siblings.
- [25:30]
A
Wow.
- [25:31]
B
And so the entire family would come together for breakfast every single morning. So after the chores were done, we would all come together, 7:30, 8:00, have breakfast and then we would go about our day. And the women primarily took care of like the cooking, the cleaning, the housework, the gardening, all of that stuff. And Then the guys would take care of the farming, you know, the plowing, seeding, planting, harvesting, all that stuff. Although in my later years of being there, I helped a lot with that stuff. Like I, I, you know, plow fields with six horses and you know, put hay away, almost got heat stroke putting hay away, like, and then there's a husking corn by hand. Literally by hand every fall. Yeah. And so I did a lot of like farm work and very hard labor. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. Yeah. So that's, that was kind of the structure of that and it just depended on the season. You know, if it was summer or spring, we were planting in the, if it was winter, we were probably canning and preserving our meats and we were doing a lot of sewing and quilting and that kind of stuff. But then everybody would always come together again for lunch. That was just the routine. 11:30, 12:00, we all get together and we have lunch. And then this is tradition. I just had this conversation with someone the other day. Every, every day after lunch we would take a nap, like 20, 30 minutes, maybe an hour, take a nap and then get up and go back to.
- [27:10]
A
Work and do it again.
- [27:11]
B
And do it again. And then, you know, and then we come together for dinner and then after dinner it was evening, go back to milking the cows and doing all the.
- [27:21]
A
Evening chores and all the food that you guys would eat and make. It was off coming from the farm primarily.
- [27:27]
B
Yeah. Like we raised our, all our own animals. We had three to 400 laying hands. So we had the eggs. We raised chickens, like the type of chickens that you want to eat that are not laying hands. So we, we raised those and we sold them as well. So we would butcher them and, and sell those. We sold hundreds of those every single year. Our own gardens, our own vegetable gardens. And then we baked a lot. So there are some things that obviously we would buy like flour and sugar and those things we would buy from the store.
- [27:59]
A
And then were you able. So you guys only had horse and buggy. Right. And then you would go into town to get stuff. Okay. And were you able to get like, is there a certain age that you have to wait to be able to go into town or.
- [28:12]
B
Yeah, yeah. You couldn't do that if you were, you know, a 10 year old kid. Like you weren't allowed to do that. One of our favorite all time favorite things to do was like, so my dad, I'll get into this later. But he passed away when I was still at home. And one of Our all time favorite things to do is like when it was when dad was like, all right, I'm gonna go to Aldi and gotta go, you know, stock up on stuff. Who wants to go? And it was like the best thing ever for you to get picked to be able to go to Aldi with Dad.
- [28:43]
A
That is funny.
- [28:44]
B
It was like.
- [28:45]
A
It was like an excursion. Yeah, right. A little field trip. Oh, my gosh.
- [28:50]
B
Yeah.
- [28:50]
A
Okay, so this you did, you were there until you were 19. 19. So at what age would you say that you kind of start, like, was there ever an age that you started to realize, like, I want to know what's outside of this world? And when would you say that was for you?
- [29:07]
B
Sometimes it's hard for me to pinpoint exactly when that was because there's, you know, my dad passed away when I was 13, and I was in my last grade of school and I. I don't remember if I already had that inkling when. When he was still there. I feel like I did, but I. I don't remember. I just remember I was still pretty young having those feelings, but I also had this kind of like rebellious heart where I just. I question a lot of things. So it's hard for me to say whether or not I. I was thinking about that when he was still there. I know very much in the. In the first, you know, couple years after he wasn't. I definitely, you know, at the 14, 15 age, I was having those thoughts. And part of the reason for that is, and I don't know if you've experienced this or not, but when you know that you don't belong somewhere, like your intuition's telling you that it's like a pool. Yeah. It's a pull. Like, you know, you're being pulled away. So for me, I started feeling pulled away. And that's why I had such a rebellious spirit. Spirit, because I would ask so many questions like, why do we do this? Why do we believe this? Why can't a woman cut her hair? Okay. I had all these questions and my mom didn't have any answers other than that's just the way that it's always been. And then on top of that, I pushed the boundaries on everything. Like, I pushed the boundaries on my clothing. I pushed the boundaries on the things that we weren't allowed to do. So we weren't allowed to listen to music, have cameras, you know, smoke, drink, any of those things. And that in other orders is called Roomspringer. Looking for a pickup truck to get just about anything done. Look no further. The Chevy Silverado EV isn't just the most powerful Silverado ever with next level towing capability and technology. It also offers game changing versatility with the available multiflex mid gate and tailgate. Which means Silverado EV helps you carry large, bulky and oddly shaped items up to nearly 11ft in length. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Visit Chevrolet.com to learn more. Oh, such a clutch off season pickup. Dave. I was worried we'd bring back the same team. I meant Those blackout motorized shades lines.com made it crazy affordable to replace our old blinds. Hard to install? No, it's easy. I installed these and then got some from my mom. She talked to a design consultant for free and scheduled a professional measure and install hall of fame son. They're the number one online retailer of custom window coverings in the world. Blinds.com is the goat shop.
- [31:39]
A
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- [31:45]
B
And roomspringer in the old order and the new order is where they, you know, can take. When they turn 16, they can start roomspringing whereas it basically room springing means running around and they can dress in non homage clothing. They can go get jobs, they can drive cars even if they're still living at home.
- [32:04]
A
So you can do that if you're still living at home.
- [32:06]
B
Not my church.
- [32:07]
A
But. But in some.
- [32:08]
B
In some, yeah. The old order and the new order. Yes.
- [32:11]
A
Wow.
- [32:11]
B
And so, so they do that and then at some point they decide whether or not they want to stay Amish, go back and stay Amish and get married and have a family or if, if they're gonna leave. And I just asked someone the other day what the percentage of kids, you know, end up going back. And they said they think probably about 75 of them end up going back and seeing Amish.
- [32:35]
A
Really?
- [32:37]
B
That's surprising. Which to me that was surprising. I didn't expect that number. Right? Yeah, but where I'm from, like we weren't allowed to do that. We didn't have roomspring that was strictly prohibited. But we snuck around with things.
- [32:51]
A
Okay.
- [32:52]
B
So like we would sneak around with music cameras. Like I have one photo of me when I was Amish, just one. And it was only because I like snuck out on a Sunday with someone. I was riding in the back of their car and they snapped the photo of me.
- [33:04]
A
Were you nervous when you did that?
- [33:06]
B
Well, you were sneaking around. You, you literally learned how to like watch over your shoulder like 24 7. Because you had to. If you were like listening to music, you were listening to music and you, you were enjoying it at the same time. You were always conscious and aware of, is someone going to catch me? Am I going to get caught with this? And we did a. We. We did that and then we did. My brothers introduced me to beer one time. You know, it's like I didn't like it, but it was cool, right? Drink it anyway.
- [33:42]
A
Yeah, it was like you knew it was wrong, so it was cool.
- [33:45]
B
Yeah.
- [33:46]
A
Did you have a close relationship with your parents? Grow that.
- [33:50]
B
So my dad, for sure. And I'll. I'll talk a little bit more about him. But my mom, yes and no. I actually feel like my mom and I are more alike than like she will ever maybe even know. Because I think that I see a lot of myself in my mom. But the reason that I think that my mom and I, we get along now. But back then, like, it was harder because she didn't understand my spirit. She didn't understand me because she didn't have answers. And so that frustrated her because she didn't have answers to me, like, for me to say. I asked her one time because there was a lady that would come out to her house and she would always talk about God. She would talk about Jesus and going to heaven and all that. And the Amish then believed that. And I think some of them still believe that, like, only Amish people can go to heaven. That was what we were taught. And I asked my mom, because this lady had a really short haircut. And I asked her, I was like, so just because even though, like, she believes in God and she's such a good person, just because she cut her hair that short, like, she can't go to heaven. And my mom was like, well, that's just the way it is, right? And I was like. And that at that moment, that was when I was like, no, I was like, I can't. I will never believe in a God like that. Like, I can't believe that. And then I always asked internally asked myself this question, like, why on earth would God put so many other people in the world just to only have the Amish people go to heaven? I couldn't fathom it.
- [35:32]
A
Yeah. And I think too, because you didn't have like an answer and explanation, it just like it wasn't making sense. It almost made you question it more.
- [35:40]
B
Didn't make sense at all. And then I. It wasn't make the church rules weren't making sense to me because I also Started to see. I eventually, like, became a member of the church, and I started to see, like, some of the things internally that were going on. And I was like, I can't believe in a God like this. Like, if I. I remember one of the most profound moments that's still, like, branded in my head is like, I was standing in my room and I was getting ready for church. And it's this whole entire ordeal to get dressed for church. And I was getting in trouble for putting the pins on my. In my dress the wrong way. Like, there were specific ways you could put them in, but if you put them in the wrong way, you could get in trouble with the church. And I just. I just stood there and I was like, you know what? If I'm gonna go to hell for putting a pin in wrong in my dress, I may as well go to hell for driving a car. So I'm gonna leave. Like, there's. Where's the line here?
- [36:41]
A
Yeah.
- [36:42]
B
And I realized that that's like. That's a pretty, like, dart thing to think, but that's where my head was at, because nothing was making sense to me, and I couldn't get the answers right. And so. And then I started to see. When I. When I did become a member of the church, I started to see some of the things that the preachers were doing in order to manipulate people. And I was like, I can't be a part of this because I didn't believe in a God like that. I didn't know what kind of God I believed in. I just knew that I didn't believe in the God that they believed in.
- [37:19]
A
Yeah. And I think, too, that you obviously, like you said, like, you always had that pool. Like, I. Like, I don't really fit in here. But at the same time, it was something where as humans, we know right from wrong, you know, so if you're seeing something, you're experiencing something, and it's giving you, like, a bad gut feeling, like, I don't agree with. With this, then you're obviously not going to want to keep being around it.
- [37:42]
B
Right.
- [37:42]
A
For sure.
- [37:43]
B
Yeah.
- [37:44]
A
And then your dad. So you said you were closer with him.
- [37:47]
B
Yes. So my dad was. He was such an amazing human being. We just. What day is today? November 2nd.
- [37:58]
A
It's the first, or. I think it's the first.
- [38:00]
B
It's the first. So tomorrow will be 26 years that his funeral was.
- [38:06]
A
Wow.
- [38:07]
B
Yeah. He was actually a preacher of the Amish church. And most of the time, when you're a preacher of the Amish Church, you're not the most liked person. Because the typical thing that the preachers will do is they will look for all the things that you're doing wrong and then shame you and tell you that you have to repent and make it right. Whereas my dad was different. He didn't look for the bad things people were doing. He didn't look for the wrong. He gave people a lot of love, a lot of grace, and just had a really kind heart. So he. He wasn't sick or anything like that. He got killed by a drunk driver in a horse and Bucky. So my. My most, like, profound memory of him, it was the day that the accident happened. And we don't have pictures, but I can still see his face, is still. Has never disappeared. I have siblings that are like, I cannot picture him anymore. They don't know, like, what he looked like. And it has never gone away for me. So the morning. The last time that I really saw him alive was the morning of the accident. So my twin and I, we were getting ready to go to school, and he was gonna leave to go make apple cider at some orchard. We were kind of joking around, like, hey, we. If we get our work done, like, maybe he'll let us write and he'll, like, take us to school. And he overheard us and he, like, busted in the door and he, like, just started, like, choking around with us. But then he ended up, like, leaving before. So here's the beautiful part. Everything happens for a reason. We're upstairs and our house is, like, right next to the road. And so he's already left and he's, like, up the road, and we open the window towards the road where we can see him, and we are, like, yelling out his name. He looks back and he.
- [40:02]
A
Take your time.
- [40:05]
B
He has the biggest smile on his face, and he's just waving. And that's my last memory of him alive.
- [40:24]
A
You know, I feel like for something, like, for it to be a tragic way of leaving this world, that's such a beautiful last memory to have, which I feel like, like you said, it makes it such a beautiful moment.
- [40:40]
B
Yeah. For you it is. Because that moment, I didn't realize how profound that moment was going to be for me for the rest of my Life. This is 26 years later, and, like, it still makes me cry, clearly. So he was gone all day, and that night when he was coming home, a drunk driver ran into the back of his buggy, and he never woke up from that. So he didn't have any broken bones or Anything like that. But he had a blood clot on his brain, and they did surgery for it, and it just. He never recovered. And he passed away about a day and a half later.
- [41:19]
A
And then you said. So there's a good amount of your siblings that don't really have any memories of him?
- [41:24]
B
Yeah, so some. So my youngest sister was five months old.
- [41:28]
A
Okay.
- [41:29]
B
So she never, you know.
- [41:30]
A
Right.
- [41:31]
B
Remember, like, what he would look like. And then I have some younger siblings that also left the Amish community.
- [41:37]
A
Okay.
- [41:38]
B
And they. I asked him sometime in the last couple years. I was like, do you guys remember, like, what he looked like? And they said no.
- [41:45]
A
So there's 18 of you, including you?
- [41:48]
B
19 total.
- [41:49]
A
19. Wow. That is a big family. So are some of them still in the Amish community?
- [41:56]
B
All but four of us.
- [41:57]
A
Okay.
- [41:58]
B
Yeah.
- [41:58]
A
And are you close? Like, do you have a relationship with all of them or not all?
- [42:01]
B
No. No. So my mom also had three sets of twins, and I'm a twin. So I have a twin sister, and she's still in the Amish community. Got married about six months after I left, and now she has, like, 11 or 12 kids, and I haven't seen her in, like, 12 years. Wow. So I go. I do go back to, like, see my mom, but I primarily just, like, go see her.
- [42:27]
A
Okay.
- [42:27]
B
And if any of my siblings are there when I visit her, then I'll see them. But majority of my older siblings, they wouldn't welcome me to come, like, to their place.
- [42:41]
A
Okay.
- [42:42]
B
They. They would talk to me if I. If I was at my mom's place, but not necessarily if I were to go to their place. Now, some of the younger. My younger siblings, they would want me to come to their place. Just, like, I usually, like, make a point to go see mom, and then I have to, like, move on, like, travel, you know, to the next place or whatever. And they don't live right by my mom, so it's a little harder for me to plan that.
- [43:07]
A
So were you allowed to go back right away or. It took kind of years for your mom to, like, welcome you back in.
- [43:15]
B
When I. When I left? Yeah.
- [43:18]
A
I was gonna say, maybe tell us about when you left, and then we'll go into that.
- [43:20]
B
Yeah, I'm gonna back it up a little bit. Okay. So my twin sister and I, when we were 17, we ran away together for two days, and I was the leader of that. I was. I was like, hey, we were really close at that point in time and said, hey, I'm. I'm gonna leave. Do you Want to come with me? And we were the first in the family to ever do that. And she's like, yeah, yeah, I want to come with you. And so I think for her, it was more just kind of like, ooh, let me see. Like, let me explore this. And I don't think her. In her mind, she was ever like, I want to stay. We ended up leaving, and we literally just went across the street because there was a family. There was a Catholic family across the street, and they had, like, 10 kids, and they were around our age, so we sometimes would, like, do things with them. So we went across the street.
- [44:06]
A
That's. Were they Amish as well? Okay.
- [44:09]
B
No. So we kind of were, like, hiding there. You know, We're. You know, we're just, like, listening to music, watching tv, whatever. But then at some point, they took us into town to another place, and we were hanging out there. And then we got a hold of a cousin of ours that had left, like, years before, and he came and picked us up, and we went to his house, and I was like, great. Like, I'm good. Like, we're gonna figure this out. Mind you, we're 17. Like, we're. We're still, like, minors. And so we're hanging out at his place, and. And he. My cousin, like, he's living there with a few other guys, and they went to work. So it's just her and I. We had the house ourselves. So we're having a blast. But get this. Like, a brother of ours assumed or heard. I don't know how, but he. He found out or he assumed that we were staying there, and he knew the number to the house. So this was back when, like, landlines were still being used. So he called a house, and I was in the living room, and she was in the kitchen. She. We picked the phone up at the same time, but she speaks first, so I can hear the entire conversation. I didn't say one single word. I just, like, listen. And so when someone leaves in that Amish community, they mourn you as if you died. Like, it's really, really difficult. And so my brother's telling my twin, you know, what's going on at home, how hard it is on our mother and begging us to come back home. And by the end of that conversation, she tells him to come pick us up that night. And so, like, my heart just, like, dropped to my feet. I was like, I cannot believe that I have to be forced to go back. So she comes back, and she's like, yeah, I told him to come Pick us up. Like, it's really bad at home. So they come by that night and they pick us up in a horse and buggy. And it was like the most devastating moment of my life. And we went back home, and I told her the following day, I said, I'm not staying. Like, I will leave again. And she's like, yeah, me too. Like, I don't want to be here, but she's still there. And so that was when we were 17. And then in between 17, that moment and 19, when I ended up leaving. Started dating at some point, started dating a guy from New York. I was in Ohio. And people always ask, like, how the heck do you do that? Like, how did you meet him? Well, brother of mine got married in New York. We went there for the wedding. I met him. We started. We had a date. We started dating. And so we had a long distance relationship. And we only saw each other like maybe once or twice a year. And then we wrote letters to each other.
- [46:53]
A
So that's how you guys stayed in touch with three letters?
- [46:55]
B
Yeah. Through letters? Yeah.
- [46:56]
A
I actually like that.
- [46:57]
B
A little romantic, right? It's a little better. I'm like, that's why I'm like, when people in. In today's world are like, oh, my gosh, he didn't text me back right away. I'm like, try writing letters.
- [47:08]
A
Yeah, Such a big difference. I do have one quick question before we move on. So you were allowed to hang out with kids that were not Amish?
- [47:18]
B
No.
- [47:19]
A
Okay.
- [47:20]
B
That was breaking the rules. Got it. Okay.
- [47:23]
A
So that family that you knew next door, across the street, that wasn't like a family you were typically allowed to. You were not allowed to hang out with those kids?
- [47:30]
B
No. Okay. But we did sneaking around.
- [47:33]
A
Okay, yeah, got it.
- [47:35]
B
Climb out the window at night and go watch a movie or something.
- [47:39]
A
Okay, understood. So you meet this guy in New York.
- [47:43]
B
Yeah.
- [47:43]
A
And you would stay in touch through letters, and he obviously was not Amish.
- [47:47]
B
No, no, he was Amish.
- [47:49]
A
Okay.
- [47:49]
B
He was from. Living in New York. Yeah. From a community from New York.
- [47:53]
A
And was it the same Amish community?
- [47:56]
B
Same source to Bramish community.
- [47:57]
A
Okay.
- [47:58]
B
Yeah. So I don't remember the exact age that we started dating. Okay. But at 18. No. Wait, what was it? Yeah, it was between 18 and 19.
- [48:13]
A
Okay.
- [48:13]
B
My twin and I ended up. We both had boyfriends and we ended up joining the church. So becoming a member of the church is this whole ordeal. Like, you, if you want to become. It's kind of expected, actually. Like, between 18 and 19, they sort of expect you to become a member of the church, but they tell you, like, don't do it if you're not ready. But then if you don't do it at that age, then it's like you're a bad person. Like, your front is frowned upon and you're just, like, not submitting. So I went through the motions of becoming a member of the church. First of all, my twin obviously wanted to because she had big plans to get married to the guy she was dating. And so we got baptized in the fall. Like, we turned 19, and then we got baptized that fall. And this whole ordeal of getting baptized and becoming a member is it takes all summer. So all summer, the kids that are gonna get baptized in the fall, they every Sunday at church, they have to follow a ritual of following the. The preachers to another room and start learning about the rules of the church and all of that stuff. It's more about the rules of the church than anything else. And then you get baptized, and now you're a member. And once you become a member, now the church has more governance over you because they can, you know, say, hey, if you don't follow the rules, you have to be shunned.
- [49:36]
A
Hey, guys. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. I want to take this time to shout out all of my amazing friends, family and therapists, because it is not oftentimes that we just take a moment and we have gratitude and we say thank you to those that we love, those that support us, and most of all, even have gratitude and be thankful for ourselves. Something that I've noticed, the more that I grow, is that we are all just trying to navigate our ways through this life. And that is not always an easy task. There are so many obstacles, so many things that are thrown our way, and it's just really important for us to take a second and breathe and remind ourselves that we're always trying very, very hard to just be the best that we can and make the most out of every circumstance that comes up in our lives. That being said, one of the ways that I make sure to constantly check in with myself and make sure that I am getting all of the care and love that I need, both mentally, emotionally, even physically, is by going to therapy. And if you're someone that has not yet found a therapist that you feel comfortable with and safe with, don't give up, because it can be a trial and error process. But I always say there is someone for everyone. Therapy is not just for people with major trauma. I think that that is a huge misconception that people can have sometimes when it comes to therapy. But in reality, therapy can be great just for kind of setting boundaries for yourself or creating positive coping skills or even just learning to empower yourself and become the absolute best version of yourself that you can be as you grow and as you develop through this life, both mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, and everything in between. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give Better help a try. It is entirely online and designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp help. Visit betterhelp.com insane today to get 10 off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com insane and now back to today's episode. So means that you're, you're.
- [51:57]
B
Yeah, like, you're banned. You're, like, excommunicated for a period of time. So you can be a member within the Amish community. And if you don't follow the rules or you are, are a member and you get caught with music or doing things that you're not allowed, they can shun you for, you know, two, four, six weeks. However, whatever they think that punishment length should be, and then they'll bring him back in to the church. And shutting basically means, like, you can't commune with other members of the church. You can't. Like, I couldn't, like, hand someone the book. Like, they wouldn't be able to give me anything, and I can't give them anything. And you can't sit at the same table to eat. And they can't participate in any of the church member things that they do.
- [52:46]
A
Okay.
- [52:48]
B
And then at some point they vote them back in. And now, you know, they have to get on their knees and promise that they continue to follow the rules. And that's, that's part of shunning. So, like, because I was a member of the church, that church will shun me in continuation. Like, that. They won't lift that ever. So, yeah, I was a member for about six months, so leading up to that. So when I got baptized, I was like, I'm just going through the motions. Like, none of this really means anything to me because going back to, like, when your intuition and your, your gut is telling you, like, you don't belong here, but you're going through the motions because you don't really know, like, what that next step is So I always, always knew in my heart that I was supposed to leave and that I didn't belong there. Because first of all, I never IM myself ever getting married there. Like even the guy that I was dating, I was like, I can't see myself getting married to this guy. And second of all, I never envisioned myself being there and just like popping out a bunch of babies. Like, I just, that was never like in me. I couldn't see it. And I'm a visionary. Like I can see things and feel things and that I couldn't. And I didn't understand like why that was not like something that was a passion of mine. But it wasn't. And now I know is because I, I, I knew that I would didn't belong there. So I say this, I did belong there at the time that I was there. I 100% believe that. And I'm very grateful for what this community and what it taught me, extremely grateful for that. And I, and I know that I belonged there for that time, but I know that I didn't belong there forever because when your gut and your intuition is telling you and pulling you, you know that that's going to pull you out. And sometimes you don't know why it's pulling you. But I was always being pulled. So leading up to me leaving, I, I have been dating this guy for a while and him and I had never talked about leaving ever.
- [54:49]
A
Yeah, I was gonna ask you, did he, was he in the same boat as you of like wanting to leave the community at all?
- [54:54]
B
He was okay. But we had never had a conversation about it because you, we, we couldn't write anything like that in our letters because you never know when a parent decides to open a letter ever. And we both had kind of a rebellious spirit. That's, and people knew that and so we just, we just didn't know. So we had never talked about, about leaving. But leading up to me leaving, the two months leading up to that, like I knew in my heart and in my soul that there was, was something big that was gonna happen. Something was shifting. I didn't know what, but I knew, like, I just could feel it. And I was actually working at my oldest sister's house as a hired mate. She just had a baby, they were getting ready for church. So I was there. And her husband, my brother in law, he was reaming me like for weeks. Like he's like, why can't you be more like this girl over here that behaves and follows all the rules and like, as if he Was like, my dad. And I was like, you don't get to tell me, like, what to do. So he. He was really hard on me on those things. And I just. I. I didn't care. And so back to, like, writing letters. So it was my turn to write a letter to my boyfriend and deliver it to the mail. So I go. It was noon. I go up to the mailbox to deliver this letter to my boyfriend. And when I open up the mailbox, there's a note in there. No address, just a note with my name. He said, lizzie Hershberger, owner only. An owner only is like. Like a common thing where, like, only the owner can open this. So I. I just was like, how the heck does this note get in this mailbox? He's in New York. Like, there's no address. There's only one way. So I. I rip open the note, and he said, my sister and I and her boyfriend drove down with a mutual friend of ours from New York the other. Yesterday, the day before, and we left. We ran away. If you want to come with us, we'll come by tonight at 10pm and pick you up. And if you don't want to leave, I'll come by another time and we'll talk about it. And that was basically, like, his way of saying, like, I'm leaving without you. Like, you. You decide what you want to do. And I'm not kidding. Like, I literally, like, st my finger and I said, I'm leaving because. So you knew right away. I knew right away. I didn't even have to think about it. I just knew that. That because I had known that I was supposed to leave, I was going to leave at some point. I just had no idea how. Like, I didn't know, like, what those steps are going to be. And so that was my window, so I didn't even have to think about it. So what I did have to do, though, is that was noon, and I had the rest of the day to figure out, how am I going to leave to make sure nobody knows, because I had to basically just escape and not tell anybody. I had a younger sister that was there visiting that day, and I debated telling her, but I didn't. And I kind of, like, hinted a few things, like, hey, like, I just want you to know, like, I. I love you. I appreciate you. That's not really something that they say, but I was saying kind of like sentimental things, trying her. And then she left. And then I. I couldn't eat. I could barely eat.
- [58:22]
A
Did you feel really excited?
- [58:23]
B
I I was excited, but so incredibly nervous.
- [58:26]
A
Yeah.
- [58:26]
B
And just like a million things going through my head because you have to remember that when you decide to leave, you know that there's a very good chance that you'll never see your family again. So I just kind of like had that time to sift through all that and realize that this might be my last time that I ever see them. So I waited until night time. And every night, like everybody gets together for prayer before they go to bed. So went through that and then I went upstairs and I was the only one upstairs on the third floor. And my sister and her family all went to bed. I waited until I knew everybody, like, went to bed. And as soon as I got upstairs, I like ripped the covering off my head, I let my hair down and I wrote a note to my mom and I just said, hey, I have to go. Said it has nothing to do with anybody here. You didn't do anything wrong. But I have to go now. And when I think back to that note, I'm just like, holy crap. Like, where did that even come from? Because I, you know, the growth that I've done now and where I'm at now, I'm like, looking back then, I'm like, I really did care about what my family thought. And I didn't want my mom to think because I know my mom, she's gonna blame herself and I didn't want her to think it had anything to do with her. So then I grabbed a flashlight. I only had $20 and the clothes that I was wearing. And instead of just like going downstairs, I go over to the window that's on the third FL door and I open the window and I climb out onto the roof. On the roof, there was a dog underneath and he just starts barking like crazy. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like now I'm caught. Like, what's gonna happen? Like, they know because you just think that they know what you're thinking. You think they're reading your mind. So my brother in law opens the, the door and he like yells at the dog to shut up. And the dog runs away down to the barn. I'm like, to this day, like, my brother in law has no idea. He like helped me. And so, so I continue and I, I climb out onto the roof and this is a 15 foot roof at least. And I'm like contemplating how I'm going to jump off this roof without breaking a bone. Because if I jump and I break a bone, you're not going to make it. No, I'll look like the biggest fool of the community, and I'll end up in the hospital with a broken leg. And they'll be like, that's what you get for trying to run away. So I'm on that roof for at least 30 minutes contemplating, like, how am I going to jump without that happening. And in the meantime, I'm also thinking, for a split second, I'm thinking, what if I stayed for six more months because my twin sister was getting married six months later, and I knew if I jumped, then I would not be at her wedding. And that was, like, a really big deal for me. So I did think about it. I contemplated, like, do I just wait six months and then leave? But I knew in my heart that if I don't leave, then I would never leave. So I had to, like, put that aside. And here's something that I. This is something that I tell a lot of people, is that when I was sitting there, that's like a very, very pivotal, one of the most pivotable moments in my life. Because in life, a lot of times, the reason that people aren't able to move forward and grow and go do exactly what they actually want to do is because they're holding on to all the things, things that they're not willing to let go in order to move forward. And so I could have sat there and said, well, I can't let go of my family, I can't let go of my culture. I can't let go of the idea of all of those things, even though that's what would have been holding me back from going forward into the future of what I was actually supposed to do. And so a lot of times, we allow ourselves to hold on to those things because we think that that's what we need, but what we actually need to do is let it go, so we can't move forward. And that's what I had to do. So I finally, like, crouch and crawl out to the edge, and I take a deep breath, I wiggle, every bone in my body lose, and I jump. And I land on my feet in, like, a squat position. And it made this, like, big, like. And I was like, oh, my God, they heard me. Like, I know they heard me. And so I got up and I ran to the side of the building, and I just, like, stood there for a bit. And then I could have ran out to the road and just, like, run up the. The road. It was like this massive hill, but I couldn't, like, I was like, if they see me running they know, and I didn't want anybody to know, so I. I, like, walked at the side of the buildings where nobody could see me around four buildings. And then I went up through the woods to meet my boyfriend, and he was there waiting. He was there waiting. Yeah, that. I forgot to say that. Like, he. He was, like, flashing his flashlight while I was still in the room, and I was, like, flashing back to, like, let him know that I'm coming.
- [63:54]
A
Oh, my gosh. So what. What were the next steps in your life after that? Like, where did you guys go from there?
- [64:02]
B
So from there, like, I got into the truck. Like, we all screamed, and we were so happy. And then we went back to. To our friend's place, and I think we were up all night. Like, I don't think we. We slept, and we just, like, watching tv, listening to music, probably drinking. I don't remember, right? And then the next day, I was like, all right, like, I need to get out of these. These clothes. And I've never worn clothes that were not Amish. So my friend was like. And I. I only had $20, and I also didn't have a Social Security number, so had to figure out, like, all right, how do I make money? And a friend of. No, my. My friend's sister, she was working at a restaurant, and she told the restaurant owner. She's like, hey, a couple of her friends love the homage. Are you guys, you know, willing to hire them in? So they hired me, and As a dishwasher. And I said, two days after I left, I had a job.
- [65:10]
A
Wow.
- [65:11]
B
Which is crazy. And so people are like, well, you didn't have a Social Security. I'm like, well, they paid me cash until I had my Social Security number. But some of the steps from there. And these are things that people are thinking about is like, okay. So I had to figure out how to get clothes. Also never had a haircut. Also never had an actual shower in my entire life. And I also never had shaved in my entire life. So my first shower and my first, like, shaving experience was, like, so insane. It probably. I was probably, like, in there for, like, two hours, right? You know, and then my friend took me to Walmart, and he's like, here, I will loan you 40 bucks, and you can, you know, buy clothes. Here's what I did. I bought some underwear. I bought a bra. Never worn a bra in my entire life. I bought a pair of jeans, jeans, and one shirt and shoes. That was it. And that was my first buy.
- [66:11]
A
And how did it feel wearing those Clothes for the first time.
- [66:15]
B
Oh, it was so weird because I wore dresses my entire life, and to put on, like, a pair of pants, it's like, I've never seen my body this way, right? Like, that was just like, we, like, what is this? You know, new body? I've never seen. That shape of my body was always covered up in. We didn't have mirrors. Well, we had small mirrors, but we didn't have big mirrors. And I don't think I ever even saw my naked body in front of the right mirror. Like, I don't think yourself like that. Yeah, I've never. I don't think I ever saw that part of me. So to put clothes on, like, that was just, like. It felt like a new identity. And then to take it a step further, I went to go get my hair cut, and the lady. The lady was familiar with, like, Amish kids leaving. So she was like, well, how. Because my hair was, like, all the way down to my butt. Like, I had really long hair. And she's like, how short do you want your hair? And I was like, shoulders. And she's like. She, like, had this, like, shocked look on her face, and she's like, are you sure?
- [67:21]
A
Right?
- [67:22]
B
I'm like, yep, it's gotta go. And so she cut my hair to my shoulders. Yeah.
- [67:28]
A
It really is, like, a completely new identity. Like, letting go of it literally felt.
- [67:33]
B
Like I was, like, shedding the old version of me, especially with the. The haircut was, like, one of the most profound moments because it's such a surreal moment. And it. And it does feel like you're taking on a new identity when you're getting that first haircut and shaving, too. Like, imagine, like, never having shaved your legs, and you're, like, shaving your legs for the first time. It's like you're embracing. You're shedding, like, the old version of you, and you're embracing this new person. But also, like, everything is so weird and new, and, like, there's a massive culture shock that happens because you really don't know how little you know until you leave.
- [68:14]
A
And that's what I was going to say, too. It's like, you know, in those moments of being in the Amish community, you had that pulling and that calling to get out of it, but then you don't. I feel like you don't think about, well, I. I'm gonna need a job. I'm gonna need to do everything on my own now, and I have no experience of doing so. You know, like, you have to Teach yourself and learn from scratch, basically.
- [68:36]
B
Yeah. And it's the one good thing that, well, there's, there's lots of good things that we learned growing up. But if you want an Amish person or a former Amish person working for you, you, you got a good person. Like we learn how to work hard, right? And we had structure, we had discipline and consistency. So the way that I explain how we went about our day, that was structure and that was discipline. Like it's like that's what it is. You show up every day, you get the stuff done and then there's consistency within that and very self sufficient, you know. And I have a five year old and one of the things that I like to teach him is how to, you know, pick up after himself and do some chores and stuff like that. And there's been people that are like, Amish only have, you know, a big family because they want their kids to do their work for you. No, that's not why they have a lot of kids. They have a lot of kids because they don't believe in birth control and they just believe natural, you know what, Let the body do what the body does and when it's done, it's done. You know, my, my mom was 44 when she had her last one. And that was just because, I don't know, I guess my dad had good sperm and my mom had good eggs. Like that's just like how it happened. And the thing is, is in today's age, it is so easy for kids to get it. My son's the same way. I have to put a lot of boundaries in place in terms of technology because he's very smart, but he can get, you know, if I would let him, he would, you know, be on his iPad that a lot. And I'm like, we're not doing that, you know, because that doesn't help the creativity of the mind and it really, really affects kids mental health. And this is what I teach my clients now, which I'll talk about that too, is even as adults with our cell phones and stuff, like every time we get a ding on our, on our phone, whether it's a text message or an email or whatever, we feel like inclined to take a look at it because that's a dopamine hit. And so we're constantly looking for that dopamine hit and we have to get to a place where it's like, hey, we, we need to figure out how to have live our lives without so much of that and also be with ourselves and I feel like. And that is the one thing that in the Amish community, like, their kids are probably some of the most well behaved kids that you'll ever see. And they're, there's. There's good and bad with some of that. Because I also think that when I look at the creativity of, you know, Amish kids and what they're allowed to do, sometimes they're also not allowed to have a voice, right?
- [71:20]
A
Like the lack of identity.
- [71:21]
B
The lack of identity, the lack of even having voice. It's like, no, sit down, shut up. Like, don't, you know, make a peep. They're supposed to sit through a three hour church service without making a peep. Like, so. So they're okay with just kind of sitting somewhere quiet for a long time, not asking questions. And I think that one of the things that I learned, obviously early on, even when I was still there, is how to ask questions. And I still ask a lot of questions. And speaking of that, you know, after I left, I talked about the culture shock, and I didn't realize how little I knew until after I left. And so I struggle with a lot of identity things when I was. Was still at home because I, I didn't feel like I, I belonged there. But then after I left that culture shock, all of a sudden, you know, I kind of went back into my shell because I didn't want people to think that I was dumb or I was stupid or I didn't know a lot. And so it made me kind of like go back inside and like, hide myself and make. Try to make myself small because I just didn't want. I didn't tell people where I was from. And, and that was like my own identity because I, you know, all of a sudden was exposed to all of these things in, in the real world that I had no idea about. Like, I. I didn't know how to order food, going to a restaurant. I didn't even know what a mall was. And so I remember the first time I went to a mall, like, someone was like, hey, we're gonna go to the mall. And I was like, what's a mall? And so, like, they're telling me and then I go with them to the mall, and it was amazing. But I got lost because I didn't know how to, like, navigate, you know, signs and directions and all of that stuff. So there is that part of it. But going back to, like, what that culture taught me is like, you figure it out. So for me, when I left that second time, I was like, I'M never going back. It's only forward. And so that really helped me a lot is because I had that mindset of, like, I know the mission. I know I'm not going back back. What do I need to do to move forward? So I got so lucky, because the guy that helped us leave, he introduced me to a couple from the same Schwartz and Trooper Amish community that had left, like, five years before. And they were established, and he called them and he said, hey. And I still, to this day, don't know because there was a handful of us that left at the same time. But to this day, I don't know why he chose me. But he. He called them and he said, hey. Their names were Jake, and I just want to recognize them because they're like, pivotal moments of my journey. And he's like, will you guys take Lizzie in until, you know, whatever time she needs in order to get established? And they said, yes. And they said, we have an extra room. And they said, she can live here for. And pay 50amonth for rent.
- [74:12]
A
Not bad.
- [74:13]
B
Yeah, right. And they said, we will have help. You get your Social Security number, your driver's license, and your first car, and then.
- [74:25]
A
Incredible.
- [74:25]
B
Yeah. And then once you have all of those things, then you can move out on your own. Guess how long it took me to get all that stuff.
- [74:36]
A
How long?
- [74:37]
B
No, I want to hear from you what you think.
- [74:43]
A
I feel like you're driven, though, so I'm gonna say a month.
- [74:51]
B
Oh, I like that. But thinking about the Social Security part and the driver's license, right? Yeah. So it took me two months.
- [74:58]
A
Okay. Okay.
- [74:59]
B
I was close. You were close? Yeah.
- [75:01]
A
Two months.
- [75:01]
B
Yeah. So here's the thing. Like, the Social Security part is, like, you need three forms of identification in order to get a Social Security number. And I had really none other than I had to. Well, birth certificate, that's a form of identity. But my parents hit our birth certificate, so I didn't know where they kept them. So I had to go to the health department and pay $25 to get my birth certificate. Then I needed two other forms of identity, and one of those was a form of a medical record. And the only medical record that I had was the medical record from my doctor when I was born, my mom's doctor. So I had to call that doctor's office and make an appointment to go see them to get my medical record from when I was born. And then I needed a third one. And the third one I needed was my eighth grade education card, and I had to go home to get it. So I knew when my family usually would go to church every. Every two weeks on a Sunday. So I had to wait for a Sunday that I knew that my family went to church and I went home and I got my eighth grade education.
- [76:19]
A
So they weren't home. And you never saw any of them when you went back?
- [76:23]
B
Not. Not that time. Not that time.
- [76:24]
A
Okay.
- [76:25]
B
And it's. It's just one of those things, like, if I. If I didn't. Was not able to get that, I wouldn't have been to get able to get my Social Security number. So I did that, and I applied for my Social Security number, got that. And that's how I was able to then apply for my driver's license and learn how to drive. Like, was the craziest thing ever. Because my. I was used to, like, riding around in horse and buggy. Yeah. Guiding the horse, hitching the horse, all of those things. So Jake, who the couple that I was living with, he's like, all right, we're going to go to this parking lot and I'm going to teach you how to drive. And I. I, like, so nervous. Like, first of all, I rode in a car before, but not very often. So I knew. I knew very little. I did. He had to tell me, like, what the brake was, what the gas was, how to shift it from park to reverse to all these things. And it's like. Like turning left to all of those things. Like, never even thought about that. So we practiced in the parking lot for me to get used to the car. Oh, my gosh. It was so nerve wracking.
- [77:40]
A
Oh, yeah. It's scary.
- [77:41]
B
Yeah. And then I applied for my driver's license and. And then him and I, we're gonna go to driver's lessons to go, like, start driving. And he's like, all right, you're gonna drive there. And I was like, like, oh, my gosh. My first time driving on the road, like, yes. Crazy. I was so nervous because when you're riding around in a horse and buggy and if there's like a big truck that comes towards you, you don't know, like, the horse may or may not get spooked. So you have to really control the horse. And that's how I felt when I was driving the car. The first time the semi came, I, like, really slowed down and I was like, what's going to happen? And then I realized that I'm in control. The car's not going to be afraid and drive off into the ditch or anything. Like that. And then they helped me buy my first car. It was like, I paid, like, $1,500 for this car.
- [78:38]
A
Crazy.
- [78:39]
B
Yeah. And.
- [78:40]
A
And then were you still helping wash the dishes at this point?
- [78:43]
B
Okay, still helping wash the dishes. And then the owner of that restaurant also had a bed and bright breakfast, so she hired me to, like, do some hospitality stuff and then gardening stuff, like cleaning the flower beds. Like, I picked up all kinds of.
- [78:57]
A
Yeah.
- [78:57]
B
You know, jobs to, like, make money. My first time that I got a paycheck, it was, like, $50. I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so much money. I'm rich. Yeah. That didn't last long.
- [79:09]
A
Right? That is funny.
- [79:12]
B
But, yeah, then. Then I. Then I. I moved out.
- [79:15]
A
And that was after the two months. That was fast. So at this point, were you. You were still 19, and were you able to move out on your own, or did you live with someone?
- [79:25]
B
Actually, so a brother of mine that was just, like, a year older than me. He had left, like, about three months before I did.
- [79:35]
A
Okay, he's back.
- [79:35]
B
Homage now. So he. He just kind of, like, left to, like, leave and go explore for a year and a half and then went back. And so I was in contact with him, and he was. Was gonna live. Move into a place, and so him and I moved in together.
- [79:50]
A
Okay, and how long did you live with him?
- [79:53]
B
Until he went back.
- [79:54]
A
And then when was the first time that you got, like, a different. That you started doing a different type of job? Or did you stick with that for a little while?
- [80:01]
B
No, I stuck with that for a little while, and then I was at the restaurant, and I did. I became a cook at the restaurant. So I, you know, help cooking. And then I eventually found out about this upholstery factory job that paid really well. So I got a job there. And I'm not kidding like this. Every single job that I ever had with a company, whenever I, like, gave my notice to leave, they, like, begged me to stay.
- [80:31]
A
Right.
- [80:31]
B
I'm sure because I was accountable. I worked hard. Like, they could expect me to do my job.
- [80:36]
A
Right.
- [80:37]
B
So I went to a big upholstery factory. They're local in Ohio, and I worked there for a while, and then I, at some point, ended up leaving there, and I worked in hospitality for a bit at hotels and stuff, and it was all, like, exposure, like, experience and exposure to different types of jobs.
- [81:00]
A
People, too.
- [81:01]
B
People like all of that stuff. And then eventually I ended up up going to a nursing home that, like, certified their own aids. And so, mind you, I still didn't have my high school diploma.
- [81:15]
A
Right.
- [81:15]
B
But I was able to go to this nursing home, and they had their own classes and stuff, so I got certified as a nurse's aide, and then I worked at that nursing home for five and a half years. Okay. And while I was there, I went and got my high school diploma.
- [81:33]
A
Okay.
- [81:34]
B
Yeah.
- [81:34]
A
And how long did that take you to get?
- [81:36]
B
Oh, man, I don't remember. Maybe six months.
- [81:39]
A
Okay. So it wasn't that bad.
- [81:40]
B
It wasn't too bad. I still don't know how I passed some of this stuff, because it was my first exposure to history.
- [81:46]
A
Right.
- [81:47]
B
And I was like, history was the most boring thing to me ever back then. I didn't appreciate it. I did not under. I just didn't understand it. And now I love history.
- [81:56]
A
Like, yeah.
- [81:57]
B
I'm, like, obsessed learning about it.
- [82:00]
A
A certain type of maturity and aging to, like. I mean, unless you're somebody that you just have that in you.
- [82:05]
B
Yeah. You know, but. But history was just something that I was like, what's this gonna benefit me for? Like, what's the point? But I fell in love with science. Like, I learned about science, algebra. Still didn't make sense. Still doesn't make sense to me. But I. I passed everything the first time around. And my. My teacher, she gave me the honors role, and she's like, you gotta go to college. So when I. Which I ended up not going to college, but she saw my spirit, and she knew, like, I had something in me. She was like, what do you want to be? Like, what do you want to. You can do anything you want to do. What is it that you want to be? What is it that you want to do? And she's the first person in my entire life that ever asked me that question. And I was like, I don't know.
- [82:50]
A
Right. It makes you think.
- [82:52]
B
Yeah. Like, she. I had never heard about writing an essay, and so she was like, in class, she's like, all right, you guys are going to write an essay. And I was like, the heck is an essay? So she kind of explained it. I had a first go around on it, and then she took a look at it, and then she came back and she gave me some more pointers. And it was the first time that I ever experienced, like, free thinking, writing, like, telling a story or whatever it is. And I just, like, picked it up pretty quickly. And so that's where that started. And I remember I was working at the. At the nursing home during that time, and that. That question that she asked me of like, what do you want to be? Like, some people, because I was an A. They're like, you could go to nursing school. You've been an amazing nurse. I know I would be an amazing nurse. But for some reason, I was not being pulled into that. And I just remember I was. I was in a. At one of the patients room, and I had my back turned towards the tv, but there was an ad that came on, and it was about either nutrition or dietetics or something, and they were talking about school, and I. I just, like, flipped around, I looked at the tv, and I literally pointed at the TV and I said, that's what I'm going to do one day. And that's kind of like where the journey started, with me discovering, like, I'm the science part of learning about the body, the physiology, all of that was, like, super intriguing by me, but also just understanding, because it was right around the time I started getting into health, because I also have a backstory of a lot of health issues, even when I was still Amish. And that translated over into my life after I left. And right around that time is when I was discovering a lot of things and learning a lot of new things about health, and I realized that that was a huge passion of mine.
- [84:47]
A
And during this time, did you ever have any sort of regret of leaving your family?
- [84:54]
B
No.
- [84:55]
A
Wow. So you just knew?
- [84:57]
B
I just knew, yeah.
- [84:58]
A
And when. How long was it between, like, when you left and the first time you went, you were able to actually go back and visit your mom?
- [85:06]
B
It was somewhere between two and six months. I don't remember the exact, you know, time. Um, I don't think it was six months, though. And here's why I don't think it was six months, because one time I did wait six months to go see my mom, and she told me, don't ever wait that long again.
- [85:22]
A
Okay.
- [85:23]
B
And so the first time I. That went back is so awkward. Yeah, like, so incredibly awkward. And, like, she was still trying to, like, mother me and, like, be like, don't do this. Like, you have to come back. Like, she's begging me to, like, come back. I think it took about two years for her to sort of, like, start accepting the fact that, yeah, I'm probably not gonna come back. And then at that point in time, some of my younger siblings were leaving as well. And so, you know, her biggest fear was that we leave, we do crazy stuff, end up in jail.
- [85:56]
A
Right.
- [85:56]
B
Like, that would have been, like, the worst possible. Yeah, the worst possible things. And then, you know, here's the crazy thing is they. They don't. They didn't. I don't know if they still believe this or not, but back then, they would have rather, like, if you left, that you don't go to church anywhere. Because in their eyes, like, if you start going to a church that's not Amish, now all of a sudden, you're being taught lies.
- [86:22]
A
Right.
- [86:22]
B
You know, and. And they think that you'll never come back because now you're telling your brain. Your brain washed into a different way of thinking and stuff. And so when I eventually, like, started going to church and stuff, like. And I got baptized outside of the church, like, I remember my mom said to me one time, she's like, don't you remember what you promised on your knees when you got baptized as an Amish person? And I told her. I was like, nah, I didn't. I didn't promise anything. I was like, I was just going through the motions, but I didn't mean it. It wasn't in my heart.
- [86:51]
A
Right.
- [86:51]
B
So I think that was hard for her. But eventually, like, she came around and. And I think now that she vicariously lives through us.
- [87:03]
A
Yeah.
- [87:04]
B
Because she realizes that we're not out here doing all kinds of crazy things and being bad people. And we. We live a good life. And I. I also remember 12 years ago, so my mom hit public auction. When you have auction in the Amish community, it can either be private or public. Public. Private means that it's only for the family, and they extend the family, and they come in, they have auction. They auction all their farm machinery, whatever it is. Public auction means it's open to the public and anybody. And so she had public auction about 12 years ago to sell off a bunch of the farm machinery. And one of my brothers was going to take over the farming, so she invited the four of us that had left the community to come home. She's like, I want all of my kids there. So I went, and it was, like, the first time that I had seen some of my oldest siblings in, you know, 10 to 15 years, whatever. Maybe 10. Maybe it was like 10 years. Then some of them didn't recognize me. I had really, really short hair back then. Like, I went, like, way short. And, like, I was standing next to one of my. Standing next to my sister, who also left. And. And my brother, one of my. Our brothers, like, looks at my sister, and he's like, hey, is Lizzie here, too? And I was like, I'm right here.
- [88:26]
A
Oh, my gosh. So he didn't recognize. And did you, when you first went back to visit your mom, did she get in trouble at all for allowing you back in or. It didn't really work that way. It was more.
- [88:40]
B
I don't think so. Nothing. Because also like, like most of the community wouldn't even find out that we're coming home to visit because we don't. We didn't. Our farm wasn't next to any other Amish farms.
- [88:52]
A
Okay.
- [88:52]
B
So like, it was easy for us.
- [88:54]
A
Private.
- [88:54]
B
It's more private. It was kind of easy. Kind of easy for us to just, you know, go home, see her for a few hours and then leave and nobody.
- [89:03]
A
She didn't have to be honest, I guess, per se, like with the church about it.
- [89:07]
B
No, she didn't have to tell them.
- [89:08]
A
Okay.
- [89:09]
B
Yeah. I mean, now, you know, my mom still follows. Follows kind of follows like the shunning rules. So if I were to go up to her and, and try to hand her something, she wouldn't really take it from. Okay. She will absolutely refuse to take any money from me. But my younger siblings who were not members of the church, they can go buy stuff from her, like, no big deal.
- [89:35]
A
Okay, Got it. And then you said that with your health issues and everything with the sciences, that's kind of. When, what age was that? That you started really like deep diving into that, all of that stuff?
- [89:45]
B
Yeah, in my early 20s.
- [89:47]
A
Okay.
- [89:47]
B
So while I was working at the nursing home when I discovered, like, this is actually a passion of mine, I really wanted to get into personal training and. But I first like got into marathon running.
- [90:02]
A
Okay.
- [90:02]
B
And I like ran some marathons and that's kind of like where my health journey started in terms of activity. But I still didn't. I didn't know a lot about like, what it means to eat healthy and what is actually like truly healthy. I got. I. In my teen years, I was really sick at home. I. So I had, you know, my twin sister and because we were twins, I. We got compared and I was always the bigger one. And I wasn't obese or anything like that, but I was bigger than my twin. And so because of that, I got bullied, like big time. And it's always crazy for people cuz they. They're like, surely there's no like, you know, shaming in the Amish community. Or you have not. You don't have the tabloids to compare, like body image. And I was like, oh, it's there. Yeah, you don't need. You don't need celebrities and, and you.
- [90:56]
A
Just need A human.
- [90:57]
B
You just need a human. And it's, like, there. And so I definitely had, like, major body image issues in my teenage years because. Because I got bullied.
- [91:05]
A
Yeah.
- [91:05]
B
For all of that. And so that led me into, like, really treating my body like crap. Like, I starve myself. And then I would go bing. I was hungry. But I also wanted to lose weight, to, like, be smaller than my twin. So it really damaged my body in that aspect of that. And so finally. And I like to win, so. Because I'm very competitive. So finally I was. Got on a scale one day. I still remember this. And my twin was there, and I was like, yes, I weigh less than you, because I finally, like, beat her. Oh, she was so mad that.
- [91:44]
A
Oh, my God. And it's crazy. It's crazy, too, like, how our minds, like, put value on this external shell.
- [91:55]
B
Well, the big thing for me is, like, I was looking for approval.
- [91:59]
A
Right.
- [92:00]
B
So. Because, I mean, I was looking for approval from my family. I was looking for approval from my mom because my twin and I were also, like, the hardest workers out of the entire family in terms of, like, she didn't have to really tell us what to do. We just got shit done. And I remember one time, like, my twin and I were working in the basement, and then my mom's, like, sitting on the steps, and we're, like, just getting stuff done. And she. She was. It was such a proud moment of for her to just, like, look at us and, like, get stuff done. And we were very orderly. And she looks over and she goes, if you guys would do everything else as good as your work, you would be perfect. Perfect. And I was like. And that, like, to this day, like, you should never say that to your kids.
- [92:45]
A
Right.
- [92:46]
B
But to this day, it wasn't until a few years ago that I realized how damaging that was for me. Because I always try to prove myself with my work to other people and to myself. And so for me, it was like, the harder I work, the more valuable and the I am and thinking that's where my worth is. That's not where my worth is.
- [93:11]
A
Right.
- [93:11]
B
And I still struggle with it today. Like, I have to check in with myself and just be like, why am I really doing this?
- [93:18]
A
Right?
- [93:18]
B
Is this, you know, coming from a place of health and having a healthy mindset about this, or am I overdoing this? Because I feel like that's what I have to do in order to please the people that love me and that I love.
- [93:30]
A
Right.
- [93:31]
B
And that kind of, like, led into my early years of leaving, I got exposed to the modern world of microwaves and fast food. And I remember the first time I used a microwave, I was like, oh, my gosh, I can just put a meal in the microwave. I don't have to cook. This is amazing. And then I discovered Burger King drive through. And I was like, I can go through a drive through and have dinner. Phenomenal. 20 pounds later, I was like, this isn't working. Something's wrong. Wrong. And so I started crash dieting. A girlfriend of mine at the nursing home introduced me to the lemonade diet.
- [94:11]
A
Never heard of that. What is that?
- [94:13]
B
Oh, man. It's a diet. It's a. It's called a lemonade diet where it's. It's lemons in water, maple syrup for, like, the ivy, and energy, cayenne pepper. And that was pretty much it. And that's all you drink now. Now what it will do is it will cleanse you. It will clean you out. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it's like a quick way to lose weight. Now most people will lose the weight, and then, you know, you do it for seven days, 10 days, whatever.
- [94:43]
A
Are you eating also or just that.
- [94:45]
B
Okay, just that. Yeah. It's not. It's not healthy.
- [94:48]
A
Right.
- [94:49]
B
I could see it doing for like, a day or two and be like, hey, I'm doing this as a then, you know. But for seven to 10 days. The first week that I did it, I lost ten pounds.
- [94:58]
A
Oh, my. Okay.
- [94:59]
B
And. But I was one of the people that didn't gain it back. I kept it off.
- [95:02]
A
Okay.
- [95:03]
B
And so I did that diet several times, like, usually once or twice a year, because I was obsessed about losing weight. And then I got into marathon running. And. And then while I was marathon running, I could eat whatever I wanted and, like, just be a bean sick because I burned literally everything that I ate. Right? So I did that. And then. So then I ended up leaving the nursing home. I got married, and we moved from Ohio to Phoenix, Arizona, Because I was like, ohio's not big enough for me anymore. I don't belong here anymore. I had that pull again, where it's like, this is not where I belong anymore. And so we went to Phoenix. And when I went to Phoenix, I was like, I have no idea what I'm gonna do. Like, I don't. I don't want to continue to work as an aide. And I had. I had pursued and looked into, like, personal training when I was in Ohio, and there was a school that I really wanted to go to. But. But it was very far away. And I found the exact same school in Phoenix.
- [96:15]
A
Wow.
- [96:16]
B
So I ended up going to personal training school for six months and started my career there as a trainer. Then I got hired right into a training studio when I graduated. So lucky. And I started my career there, and I ended up being there as a trainer for like, six years.
- [96:34]
A
Okay.
- [96:34]
B
But in that time frame, about two months, months after I started training on the floor, I realized, like, this isn't it. Like, there is so much more to your health than just moving your body. And I need to understand and know how to help people with their diet and their nutrition and all that. So I went back to school.
- [96:56]
A
Okay.
- [96:57]
B
And I studied integrative nutrition and holistic health. Studied that for a year, got certified in that, and then, you know, just kind of like build on from there. And that's where I, like, really started to learn about how damaging dieting is and, like, what does that does to our body? And then fast forward a few years, 2020 happens. And I had that poll again right before all of that. Where in that year leading up to that, where I was like, I'm supposed to, like, have my own business. I don't know what it's supposed to look like. It was supposed to be online, but I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. And. But then 2020 happened and that kind of like, I feel like most people had some kind of, like, shift in that time. And that one, that's when God was like, it's your time. You gotta, like, go do your own thing. So I started my online coaching business in 2020, and the name of my business is called Undiet you. So the whole philosophy behind on diet used to teach you what to eat, to fuel and nourish your body and feel amazing and be healthy versus dieting, where they teach you what not to eat.
- [98:09]
A
Right.
- [98:10]
B
So that's undiet you. And I launched that in 2020. But right after I launched that, I went back to school.
- [98:16]
A
Okay. Amazing. You can never have too much education.
- [98:18]
B
No. So I. So then I. I studied functional health and I got board certified as a functional practitioner. So after I did that, also have a kiddo and I, I started to have again, like, some of my own health issues with hormones and thyroid and all of that. And what that did is that forced me to start studying again to figure out, like, okay, like, why is this happening? And now my business is that I primarily am helping people that are struggling with hormone issues and thyroid issues and gut issues. So when I'm working with clients, like every single single person that works with me, they're going to get lab work done and we like really dive into what is missing.
- [99:03]
A
And is this still all online? Are you doing it? Okay.
- [99:06]
B
Yep, everything's online. I have people from out of the country that work, work with me. And the reason that the lab work is so important is because we need to look at what is really missing.
- [99:17]
A
Yeah.
- [99:18]
B
And most people, I call it like throwing darts at your health. So, like, you try a diet and you're like, I hope this one sticks, or you buy all these different supplements and you're like, I hope this sticks, but I don't know if this is what I mean. I like throwing darts at your health. And so what blood work does is it allows us to really look underneath the surface of like, what is actually going on. And then that helps us like really fine tune the plan. And, you know, they get amazing results doing that. So. And it's very, very. The whole thing is education and empowerment. And so my job is to teach my clients why they're doing what they're doing and the education behind the nutrition part of things and how the body really works and what their body needs and then create something that is sustainable for them.
- [100:13]
A
Yeah. Long term, Long term.
- [100:15]
B
But the other part of that is empowerment is, is feeling empowered and in control of their health and their body. Because a lot of times people don't feel that, like, they go to the doctor and it's like they don't feel fine, but their doctor's like, yeah, yeah, everything's, everything looks good, you know, nothing, nothing I can help you with or if, if there is a diagnosis, you know, here's a pill. Take this.
- [100:42]
A
Exactly.
- [100:43]
B
You know, and this is the complete opposite that I, they do.
- [100:45]
A
Right. Because like you said, like, there's no education behind that. You don't really know why, why something's happening, why you're doing it, but with what you're doing at the end is amazing that you're giving them that education. And, and it is more sustainable and long term because these diets and things like that, it's like a quick fix. It's like, how can I.
- [101:03]
B
It's not sustainable. And the other part too is learning how to advocate for yourself. So the big, big missing piece for people in today's age, unfortunately, it's like you have to know how to advocate for yourself when you do go to the doctor. So that's, that's what I do today. And that's kind of like the journey that led me to that. And then I also have my published book, Amish Renegade.
- [101:26]
A
Which you. What year did you write that?
- [101:28]
B
I wrote the book back in 20. We're in 2024, so 2022.
- [101:36]
A
Okay.
- [101:37]
B
Yeah. That. It's available in all formats, soft cover, hardcover, Kindle, Audible. It's my voice.
- [101:44]
A
Amazing.
- [101:44]
B
Yeah. On there. So do that. And then additionally, I'm also the CEO and co founder of a non toxic beauty brand called Miss Commando.
- [101:52]
A
Amazing.
- [101:53]
B
Yes. I love it. We launched it just, it's. We literally just reached our like our first anniversary, like one year anniversary. Thank you. But that's been phenomenal. We focus on like non toxic products. So this goes back to like the culture of the homage of keeping things simple. And so the whole philosophy is to keep it incredibly simple. So we have goat soaps, goat lotions, shea butters. And for an example, what I'm talking about, simplicity. It's like they're simple but they're effective.
- [102:26]
A
Yeah.
- [102:27]
B
So we pride ourselves on like 10 or less ingredients in our products. And you can, can pronounce literally every single thing that's in it. You know what's in it. There's no parabens in it. There's no phage in them. Let's say for example, like we have shea butter, it's called Commando Bomb. It only has five ingredients in it.
- [102:43]
A
Okay.
- [102:44]
B
But it's extremely effective. So the whole philosophy behind Ms. Commando, because people are like, why Ms. Commando? Like that's like, how did you come up with that name outside? Well, there's actually three parts to Ms. Commando. So the first part is like commanding back your health and, and commanding back your health by caring about what you put on your skin. Because what you put on your skin gets absorbed in through your organs, your endocrine system. And like the world doesn't need more products, but it does need better products because we have an overload of beauty products. But most of them are very, very toxic. And I 100% believe that a lot of these products are a reason why young teenage girls have hormone issues. The way that they have our food too, our diets too. But if you're. The average woman applies over 200 chemicals on her body every day. If they're putting on makeup, if they're using hairspray, if they're using, you know, toxic shower stuff, like there's a lot of chemicals in those things and those are endocrine disruptors. And when you're disrupting the endocrine system, now all of a sudden you're having thyroid issues and hormone issues and immune system issues, autoimmune issues. They can stem from these things. Because what people don't realize is that what you put on your skin, that's your biggest outer organ, and it has to filter in through your organs. So we think about the food that we eat. Our liver is our number one of our number one detoxers in terms of, like, toxins and stuff like that, Estrogen detoxification. And that's the other thing is, like, a lot of beauty products are stored in, like, very bad plastic and they have other estrogen, you know, things in them. And so what happens is what you put on your skin has to go, you know, filter through your liver. So but if your liver's already, like, overloaded with all these other things, that's an issue. I knew for about three years that I was supposed to have some kind of beauty brand, but I didn't know what it was going to be. But it's so crazy because when I discovered that this was what I was supposed to, I had this vision. And the vision showed me, like, there was supposed to be milk used in our product, and it was supposed to be really clean and, and healthy for our skin, but also very effective. So, like, a lot of people with skin issues, they found that it's, like, really helpful for that. But I had this vision of, like, what the containers are going to look like, and it just like sat in my brain. And then when a little over a year ago, when we were looking to launch, launched this, I found containers that I wanted that were exactly like the vision that I had. And these containers are hemp fiber biodegradable containers. And they're so freaking cool. Have you ever heard of the Apple philosophy?
- [105:32]
A
No.
- [105:33]
B
Let me ask you this. Do you have an Apple phone?
- [105:34]
A
Yes.
- [105:35]
B
You throw away your boxes?
- [105:37]
A
Yes.
- [105:38]
B
Most people don't.
- [105:39]
A
Okay.
- [105:39]
B
And the reason that they don't, and this was Steve Jobs. He's brilliant. He's like, we're gonna make the boxes is so beautiful. Like, people don't even want to throw away their boxes.
- [105:48]
A
Yeah.
- [105:48]
B
And I was like, that's genius. And so I've. I've like, audited my audience. I'm like, do you throw away your boxes? And they're like, no, I can't. It's too beautiful.
- [105:57]
A
Right?
- [105:57]
B
Yeah.
- [105:58]
A
And that is true, though. You know, it's like that's the way of the world too, nowadays. It's like if something's aesthetic and you like the way it looks, you're going to Want to hold on to it. And I wanted to mention too, I think it's amazing how in tune you always have been with yourself, because there are so many people that never reach that. That type of authenticity within themselves where they, they can't really. They don't know what they're being pulled towards.
- [106:23]
B
They.
- [106:23]
A
They don't have that kind of strength and identity to be like, this isn't right for me. I don't belong here. I should be doing this. Or, or a lot of times too, people feel guilty like they'll start something and if they feel a pull to do something else else, they won't do it because of the guilt of like, well, I have to stick with this. So I think it's amazing, you know, especially with you kind of growing up in a world where you weren't. You didn't really. You weren't given that identity, you know, you didn't really have that ability to be creative naturally. You. You really had to trust yourself and trust your gut and go against every single thing that you were taught. So I think it's so amazing. And that's a journey on its own, you know, And I think that that says a lot about who you are. You are as a person and your drive and, and creativity and independence. Because that's not easy. Like I said you were. You had to start from scratch completely and build up who you are today completely on your own. For the most part, basically.
- [107:18]
B
Yeah. I mean, there's obviously like very pivotable people in my life that have, you know, and I never want to under right value that because one of the things that I did, you know, early on in, in those early years when I discovered that, I was like, well, I don't know a lot about this world here, but it's very common for people in the. In the ex Amish community that have left to just kind of like hang out with each other because it's safe. They all know and understand each other in terms of like, what it's like.
- [107:45]
A
Yeah, it still is. Like a sense of community.
- [107:48]
B
Yeah. And so they create sort of like their own community. And I, you know, hung out with that for a while, but I was always different. And I realized at that point in time I had this thought. It's like, if I want to understand things differently now, if I want to know things differently, I have to align myself with people that didn't grow up in the Amish community. So I started to pull away from just hanging out in those groups. And I was like, let me go Find people that went to high school, let me find people that went to college or lived a completely different life. And I'm going to start hanging out with them. So I, I became friends with some people, really good friends actually, and I would hang out with them. And so, so at first I would, I was still very like, reserved and I wouldn't necessarily ask a lot of questions, but I would pretend that I knew things that I didn't know. So if there was like, they were all like in conversation, this entire group of like talking about a specific movie or saying certain things, I would just like pretend like I knew what they were talking about because I didn't, I didn't want them to know that I didn't know. So I did quite a bit of that. And then eventually I got to a place where I just got really good at asking questions. And so I hit. I hid a lot of myself for many years because I just didn't want people to know. And then eventually I got to the place. This wasn't until after I lived in Phoenix. I. Moving to Phoenix was one of the absolute best things that ever happened for me because I got exposed to a completely different world. I knew one person there when I moved there. I, you know, moved there with my husband at the time. We're not married anymore. But that exposed me to a completely different world. And so when I moved there, I started to grow, I started to develop. I did a lot of like self help things. And I just like, it's always a very optimistic person too. And so when you have that hunger to learn and grow, like, eventually I got to that place where I just didn't care if I didn't know something and I just asked questions. So I got comfortable telling people, like, listen, like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, explain to me a big thing is like people are like, well, do you remember this in this movie? And I'm like, no. And they're like, what? You've never seen that movie? And I'm like, will it change my life? And they're like, no, but like, it's amazing. I'm like, all right, cool. And I am not hung up on it.
- [110:11]
A
Well, honestly, I think everything that you have shared is so incredible for so many different reasons. And I think, you know, something that I was going to mention before too is that in a way, I think when it came to your mom, it's like you were able to provide her a little bit with some education of like the outside world and even just kind of teaching her about you outside of the Amish community, like who you are with, like within, within you and like who you are on the inside and show her your creativity. And, you know, I'm sure she thinks that's such a beautiful thing as well for you, like to be able to see you grow in that way, you know, And I'm sure, obviously, because it is so different than the way she was raised as well and raised you all, it. It might be a little bit scary, but I think that it's still like such a beautiful thing to see and because like you said, like, she assumed like the worst case scenario of like, what's going to happen, you know, and it's a scary world out, out here. So I think to be able to see someone grow into something is, is a beautiful thing and it's amazing. And it, like I said, it takes a lot of strength and courage for you to have made the decisions that you made and to not go back to what was comfortable or what you knew. Like, you completely went against all of those things. Yeah. And then also now obviously to educate all of us on how the Amish community really is and how there are different groups and it's so much more than just like, you know, Amish being one term that's just everything is under one umbrella and it's incredible. And I think too, like you mentioned, there are amazing qualities and it really does ingrain such important characteristics in children and in families and, and we don't live in a world where, you know, obviously where technology isn't something that feels like we, we need it. You know, it feels like it's so necessary. And I think it, there's something amazing about, you know, these communities of Amish people still existing because it's such a different way of life. And I think it, in. It is so beautiful in so many ways and, and I think that in many ways I wish obviously that more, more of those qualities were ingrained in just like your everyday life. Because I think it, it can be so good for your mental health and it gives you, I think, the opportunity to not only be, to learn how to be a hard worker, but to also be in the present moment.
- [112:43]
B
Yeah.
- [112:43]
A
Because, you know, like, when we're on our phones and when we're, we're so consumed with this world and what's happening and who's doing what, it's like you're not really there. You know, you don't have time.
- [112:53]
B
Yeah. And it's interesting that you bring that up because I had this conversation with actually a couple of my clients this past week. So one of the gals was telling me that she literally has music on 24 7. And I asked her, I said, why is that? And she said, well, I just. I just like music. And I said, well, let me ask you another question. I said, do you have music on because you don't like to be in your own thoughts? She's like, well, I don't think so. And I was like, you gotta think about it. I said, most of us are uncomfortable being in our own thoughts. Thoughts quiet. And I said, if you constantly have noise all the time, like, even if it's good music and you love it, it's still a distraction from you to tune in, like, with yourself and check in with yourself. So my challenge to her was, you need to take at least, you know, an hour a day where you have no music, and you. You make sure that you tune in with yourself and you check in with your. Yourself, like, how are you really doing? And check in with yourself to see if that is a distraction, you know? And I have another guy that I'm working with, and, you know, he's. He's kind of the same way. Like, he just doesn't. Like, he's always go, go, go, go. And I'm like, dude, like, you gotta, you know, take pause. You need to take pauses. You need to check in with yourself. And I said, I know you like you. It's a distraction for you to make yourself busy. But I said, you will run yourself to look around if you don't take moments to, like, check in with yourself and also appreciate the small things that are around you. And he was kind of like, how do you even start appreciating? Like, I was like, first of all, you need to find a love in your life other than work. Like, because I was the same way. And I. I, like. I said, like, I still have to check in with myself. Like, what am I doing other than work that I also love? I love my work. And there's nothing wrong with loving your. You should love your work. I'm like, if you have a job that you hate, you probably aren't in the right calling, and you should do something else, because that's. To me, that's a waste of my life. So I need to be doing something that I'm very passionate about, and it's not just, like a paycheck, right? And so. So for. My advice to him was like, I need you to. Even if it's a start of, like, five minutes a day, where you. You're sit quiet and you recognize the things that are around you and you start being grateful for the smallest things that are in your life, then that's where you start. And that's the one thing that, you know, within the Amish community there. There aren't, you know, that many distractions. But the other thing that I wanted to mention, too, is for some people, it's a choice for them. Like, they know the truth. They don't believe in all the things that the church is. Is teaching, but they like the lifestyle, they like the slower lifestyle. They like, you know, the simplicity of it, and so they choose to stay. And so for some people, it's just a way of life. And I respect that so much. I was with a couple the other day in Illinois, and I was, like, bawling, talking to them about this, because I was like, listen, like, I respect you guys so much because you guys are amazing human beings. And you're choosing to live the Amish life, even though you don't agree with everything within the Amish church, but, like, you still are choosing to live that life despite all of that. But in the meantime, they're also not, you know, coming after someone like me that has left. And they. They. And it's. It's kind of crazy because a few years ago, I had this pastor tell me one time, time, he's like, lizzy, you were actually, like, you were meant to be in the Amish church when you were meant to be. But he's like, your calling is actually to, like, help the Amish. And I was like, you're crazy. Like, what the heck are you talking about? Like, I don't know how that would even happen. Well, I'm actually starting to see it happen. That makes sense because I have Amish women that are coming to me, and they work with me with clients. And as clients, like, they're. I'm helping them with their health. Health. And, you know, I've, you know, relationships. Yeah, it's like, full circle. And I'm just, like, so, like, honored and blessed also. But, like, I appreciate it so much. And that is a reason why I will not go on interviews. And I will not do this in. I didn't do this in my book where I just sit here and I just, like, spill, like, all the bad things, and it's all bad and just, like. Because I wouldn't be who I am today if it was not for that.
- [117:35]
A
Right?
- [117:35]
B
And if. If all you're doing is sitting here now. I'm not saying that there's hard. There's stories in that book that I. I don't typically talk about on shows just because I don't feel like that's necessary for me to do that. If you want to learn about it, you can read the book and you'll learn about it then. But in my mind, if all you're doing is talking about all the bad things that happened to you, then that's healing. That hasn't happened.
- [118:05]
A
Exactly.
- [118:05]
B
And you can't appreciate what it has taught you and who it has helped you become. If that's the primary focus.
- [118:16]
A
I agree 100%. And like I said, I. I can see how in so many different aspects and for so many different people, it would be a full circle moment where you're able to educate. And also, you have a different. Like, even though you're no longer in that community now, you still spent like a quarter of your life there. You know that that's a huge part of who you are. Even if you did leave when you were 19, you know, it gives you a different understanding of that community, and it probably makes. If Amish women are coming to you or even men, you know, it makes them feel safe. I feel like to some degree of. Like, she understands.
- [118:53]
B
Yeah. You know, usually that's a draw to. Actually, it's true. I have had Amish men, too, that have. Usually it's the. The man and the woman that come to me. And there's a level of trust.
- [119:05]
A
Yeah.
- [119:06]
B
There. And understanding, too, because I understand their lifestyle.
- [119:10]
A
Right.
- [119:11]
B
And so there's that aspect of it, like, no judgment. There's no judgment. And I, you know, I'm just so incredibly grateful for that. And I'm so thankful that I chose to take the route that I have taken in order to share my story in the way that I have. And I think that you change people's lives and you change the world by focusing on those things versus only sharing the bad stuff.
- [119:44]
A
Right. Yeah. And I feel like, like you said, the negatives, I feel like, are going to be there in anybody's life and anybody's journey. But it's more important to, like, you can mention them and say, like, yeah, they're part of the journey, but the positivity and the bigger picture is always what is most important. For sure.
- [120:00]
B
Yeah. For me, like, the fact that you can grow up in something like that. And there was a lot of hard things that happened and very difficult things that happen. And obviously I don't agree with, you know, the church rules and all of that, that if you can, you know, take a moment to step back and say, okay, like, everybody has bad things that happen. It doesn't diminish anything. Any bad things that have happened to you, like, never want to mitigate any of that. But if you can, take a step back and say, okay, what if some of these things happen in order for you to help transform you into the person that you are? And some of the things that. That did happen in my life when I was still growing up in the Amish community is something that women in the. In the modern world experience as well. And they're able to. You know, I had a gal that, like, read my book, and she, like, messaged me after because I know her, and she's, like, bawling, and she's like, I can't believe you went through that. Like, how do you do it? And. And so. And we're talking about sexual assault stuff, and I was like, listen, there's hard things that happen, but it is already within you to make it through that, and you're gonna be okay. Like, yeah, like, you can grow from it, and does it make it okay? No.
- [121:17]
A
Right.
- [121:18]
B
But, like, you got this, and it doesn't define who you are. It doesn't define your future, but it can make you stronger, and it can make you better. And I think that for me, I look at all the difficult things that happen in my life, and I realize that it's. It was something that was a lesson for me and. And something that is a message for me to also help other women.
- [121:46]
A
Yes. Well, I think you're incredible.
- [121:48]
B
Thank you.
- [121:49]
A
And I loved every second of this. And thank you so much for coming on here and sharing your life story with me and with my audience. And obviously, like I said before, please send me all the links to everything.
- [122:02]
B
Yeah.
- [122:03]
A
You know, your. Your online business, the book, the makeup. Yeah, I'm gonna have to check it out too. I'm excited. And I'll link it down below for everybody that's interested in all. I know you're on all the social medias, too, and everything.
- [122:15]
B
IG, YouTube. Tick tock.
- [122:17]
A
Perfect. Yes. No way. And so people can follow along and keep up. And thank you so much. Was there anything else you wanted to share? You think you got it all?
- [122:24]
B
I think that's pretty much it. The last thing that I want to share with the audience. Audience is just that if you know that there's something that you. You are called to do, do not allow the things that are holding you back, hold you back. Like, let go. The things you need to let go in order to go into the future that you're supposed to go to.
- [122:41]
A
I agree with you 100%. Well, you're amazing, and thank you so much. Seriously, that was great.