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- [00:00]
Katie
My name is Katie. I grew up. I would say it was like a Hallmark movie, quintessential childhood. I grew up in a small town in Kentucky, close to Cumberland Falls, if you've ever heard of it. So just like, absolutely beautiful. One of the prettiest places you can imagine. And I had just like your idyllic childhood. Initially, I grew up two cousins close in age, and we played together, and it was just a little dream that you would imagine starting out. Whenever I got older, I started school, and I actually started school in Tennessee, but we. We lived right across the border, so it was like the borderline of Kentucky and Tennessee, so nothing seemed crazy or abnormal at the time. I started school, and it was picture perfect. I went to Caraval Elementary School, and I feel like it was the last. It was the most nostalgic 90s childhood school experience. I genuinely love school. But as I got older, I guess, I mean, kids are just innocent, like, innocent adolescents. And as I got older, I was raised by educators. So being at school, being in the school system was very normal part of my life. And I would say around the age of 10, it was actually parent teacher conferences that kind of started, like, little pings in my mind. But I would look around and I would just kind of assess. Your parents are so much younger than mine. So, like, I'm looking at my peers and my best friends, and their parents are half the age of mine, and.
- [01:50]
Unknown
I'm like.
- [01:53]
Katie
What is going on here?
- [01:55]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [01:55]
Katie
So I just kind of don't question it initially, but I was talking to someone I was close to at the time, and they were like, are you adopted? Like, why are your parents so much older? And I think it is somewhat normal in the area where I grew up that grandparents raise children and things. So it wasn't like I hadn't seen that dynamic, and I hadn't thought anything about it. And it was something that I never thought I would question initially. But as I got older, specifically, like later in the year of 11, it was just so glaringly obvious that something was abnormal about my parental dynamic, and I picked up on it.
- [02:41]
Unknown
So growing up, it was just you and then your mom and your dad. Did you have any siblings or were you the only child? Child.
- [02:48]
Katie
I was so much younger.
- [02:49]
Unknown
Okay.
- [02:50]
Katie
I had the experience of an only child, but I did have sister and two older brothers.
- [02:56]
Unknown
Okay.
- [02:57]
Katie
So they were married and out of the house, and I was just you. It was just me and actually the oldest brother. Those were kind of like the kids that I grew up playing with. So it Was all of that age group kind of collected together, which was like Sundays after church we played together. So it was very close. It was a very family oriented dynamic.
- [03:26]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [03:27]
Katie
But I remember one day my cousins were also there and my older cousin, she had looked at me and she was like, are you something? Like, are you gonna ask what are you. What are you doing? So finally we were driving home from school and it made me so nervous. I remember that was like the first time that I kind of started to feel, I guess what was like brewing anxiety. And we drove to Tennessee every day for the first few years and the last couple. Like every day it was wake up at 4 or 5am and drive to school and then drive home in the evening. So driving across the mountain is what we used to call it. I sat behind the driver's seat, so I knew it was kind of like the place to ask because it was more private. And I asked, am I adopted? That's all you said, am I adopted? Just like I remember it. I kind of sat there and it was silence and I didn't know how to start it. It's just a little kid.
- [04:31]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [04:31]
Katie
And I blurted it out and it's just like, am I adopted? And I remember thinking about it, like that's what I expected to be the case at the time. And the reaction made me feel like I don't understand because it was so shut down immediately. It was, you're not adopted. Don't ask that. Like, don't. You are not adopted.
- [04:58]
Unknown
Like it wasn't.
- [04:58]
Katie
You are part of this family.
- [05:00]
Unknown
Yeah. Like it wasn't more like a question like, what? Yeah.
- [05:03]
Katie
And I. I did feel like the answer I got was true based on the reaction that I received at the time from my mom. But I remember I turned 12 and that just kind of. I just kind of let it go. Like it wasn't like an everyday brewing thing at that point. But I remember I turned 12 and my sister was pregnant with her second child at the time. And her health was very touch and go. She started to have seizures and some things come up while she was pregnant and everyone was pretty concerned. But I remember one night in particular, she had had a series of medical issues that became concerning and she was on bed rest. And I remember driving up the driveway. It was a very long driveway. We lived in a very rural area, so driveways are long. And I remember driving up the driveway, it was late and I could just tell like unsettling feelings. And I remember walking into the house and it is just. I don't know how to describe that feeling. I could just tell. But I walked in, and I remember it was just like. Just an awkwardness. And they said, like, katie, she wants to talk to you privately. And I remember going in the bedroom, and you can just feel like. When you feel like the bottom is about to fall out. That was the feeling that I had because I couldn't understand why I was being brought in and actually thought it was probably like a you're being called in to say your last wishes thing initially. But I remember walking over to the bed and climbing on the side of the bed. And she told me that whenever she was 16 that she had me and that I was her biological child. And my family had agreed to raise me as her sister. And they never planned to tell me, but because of her health at the time, they decided to. And I don't remember if she initiated wanting to do that or if that's something that they had requested, meaning my parents or grandparents, truly. And I had no idea at the time. So I asked immediately. I remember that was the first moment that I felt, like, physical anxiety. And it was like the words in my mouth were gone. Like, I had no words. I couldn't really speak. And I just said, am I gonna have to live here now? Like, is that. My first reaction was like, is all of this changing and I'm gonna have to move right now? Like, I thought that in that moment, that was gonna be the shift that was taking place. I didn't initially understand the grounds of why she was telling me or why it was happening at that moment. But after finding out and her health improving after that, I remember I had called, I believe it was my aunt first. One day I was there at the house with her, and she asked if I wanted to tell her, and I said yes. And I remember saying, like, she's my mom. I found out that she's my mom. And everyone asked, like, how it made me feel. And I remember the way I viewed her at the time, her and her husband, I thought that they were two of the coolest people. And I very much so. The dynamic that I grew up with was so positive, and it was idyllic in my mind for so many years. And that was immediately, like, reality was shattered on that day. And I remember thinking, like, trust. I felt like I couldn't ask questions because I didn't really know how to trust what I was receiving after that, because I just really didn't understand how this had happened to me or why the dynamic existed.
- [09:25]
Unknown
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- [10:53]
Katie
The way that it did. And so my initial thought was just teen pregnancy and that it was so much social shame that they couldn't handle that. But I got older. I think like the year 12 and 13 was just so confused, like confused, not really understanding how to process it. But there were small things she didn't want anyone else to know that she was my mom. And so she would say like don't tell anyone or don't tell them that you're my kid. And there was one day in particular. I remember two of her friends from church, I won't mention any names or anything, but they had come to visit her and I think it was somewhat unexpected. I believe they were dropping off food or something. But I remember looking at her and seeing the panic on her face because she saw them coming up the driveway and I was there and they would be able to put two and two together because they covered everything. And that's why I went to school in Tennessee. But I remember seeing the way that she reacted and it hurt so badly because I thought like I would steal clothes from her closet. Like I just thought that she dressed the cutest And I really looked up to her. And after. To immediately feel so rejected by your mom and like, children, like, their mom is idolized. And even though I hadn't been raised as a maternal figure, in my mind that shift was going to happen. Like, that was the reason that she told me, obviously, because if she didn't want to admit it or act like the truth was the truth, why tell me? But after that, I remember, I guess just kind of processing the initial stages of it. And one day someone said to me, like, well, who's your dad? Like, why don't you see your dad? Like, was he a bad person?
- [12:55]
Unknown
What is now, is that something that you asked after she had told you that she was your mom, or did you just not even bring that up yet?
- [13:04]
Katie
I think it was the level at which I processed it. At first, I didn't ask, I didn't think of it.
- [13:09]
Unknown
Right, because you were still so young.
- [13:11]
Katie
And in my mind, she had only been married to the man that she was with at the time. And that, like, I grew up with him.
- [13:20]
Unknown
Did you have any thoughts that he might be your dad?
- [13:23]
Katie
That was exactly what I thought initially. Like, obviously, they've been together. They got married. I was in the wedding. And my mind was like, obviously, that's the only person she has been with that I've ever seen her with. She was just 16. So it's just like the shame of teen pregnancy that caused this. Yeah, that was my initial thought. And I remember, like, getting older and stepping back their children. So all of my siblings on her side do have the same father. So the man that she was always married to when I was little, they're all between her and this man. They are copy, paste, copy paste, copy paste. And you look at me, and I just look like a foreign body in the family. And it was like we had a family photo on the mantel as a kid. And looking at it and seeing me, you're just like. Like, you. You look different. And so that was exactly my initial thought. And I remember being asked that. And being asked is the first thing that prompted my mind to be like, oh, I don't think that's the case. And I remember the night that she told me, he insisted on staying in the room, and he sat in and listened. And I. I had no questions. I hadn't really, at 12, like, how do you really process that? And so I think it was 14. I was 14 at the time that I asked. And I did ask, but that was the start of, like, the trauma and the tumultuous family dynamic. Because I did realize that I didn't know. And when I asked, I assumed, like, it's so likely that this was just, like, a high school accident, that this was just, you know, so common. Like, it happens. It's actually not that serious. But I just assumed that it was high school. It was probably a dynamic that he just didn't want to deal with, didn't want to be involved with at the time. And so I asked, and it was, again, like, the reaction that I got, I was like, I don't understand actually why the reaction was that way. And I. We had an attic growing up, and it was the place that all the kids love to play. That was our little hangout. You had to kind of crawl through a tiny little door to get up there. So it was exclusively for the kids. No adults were getting on there. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. But that was the space that everyone wrote their, like, middle school, high school crushes. Like, everything up there was, like, little insults between brother and sister or little things. And I remember sitting up there, and I finally started talking to my friends at the time. And I'm so grateful for the friends in, like, every stage of life who has carried me through processing this, because they essentially are, like, the glue that held it together. But I remember asking them, and they were like, get the yearbook out. We signed those. Like, she probably. If the ceiling says this stuff, get the yearbook out, because you'll probably find all her high school stuff in there. And I was like, that's great advice, actually, I'm going to. And so I went through every high school yearbook that I could find from the school that she went to at the time. And I couldn't really find information, but I did find a list of, like, the boyfriends that had been pinpointed through history. And I looked into it, and I wasn't sure, but I would look at their faces, and I was kind of, like, trying to see a resemblance. And I remember I had two friends at the time that were pretty close with the. My family. And I was probably 15 or 16, I think I. When I started asking more questions and feeling really upset about not knowing, I think not knowing really bothered me. I feel like I handle things well just being provided information. And I think feeling like that information being kept for me was, like, reality is not real for me anymore, because that's also. Your family is, like, supposed to be your safest place. That's supposed to be the place where you're the safest and that was always true physically, but emotionally, not at all for me. And especially now, like, I am a mother and an adult, and I. I can't actually process how they were led to make the decisions that they did. And I think grandparents and biological moments collectively at different points. But I remember asking anyone, like, I just got to a point where I didn't care. And I was kind of at the point my family felt like they didn't know what to do with me. And they. I was very outspoken, and I think that my personality was just stubborn, and I couldn't really accept not knowing as an answer.
- [18:58]
Unknown
Quick question for you.
- [18:59]
Katie
Absolutely.
- [19:00]
Unknown
So after your biological mom told you that she was your mom, did your dynamics change between you and your grandparents that raised you as your parents? Like, did you act differently towards them in a way that, like, just because of finding this out and having. I mean, essentially having a bomb dropped on you?
- [19:20]
Katie
Yeah, I didn't initially, but it was also. They went for being my parents to me, knowing you're not. And I think raising you is different. Even though they had provided for me, like, yes, they filled the role of that. Like, yes, they did go through the actions of raising me, but emotionally and mentally, it separates immediately. It was like someone built a concrete wall and put it up. And so it did. It completely separated connection, I guess. Like, it.
- [19:58]
Unknown
Do you think that made them upset at all?
- [20:00]
Katie
Oh, I'm sure. Like, it was. I know there are different layers to that points in the way that they. They love me. Like, there's no. I was like the little gift that the world offered from this situation to them. And I think that there was no level of processing that for them. And so I think they had good intentions at lots of points and still really did the wrong thing. And after that, it was just hard because you still need parents at 14, especially at 14. Like, those years are so sensitive. But it was always really hard. Even before I knew that with the age, like, I constantly would feel like just normal things. I would be ashamed to talk to mine because they. So different. Like, if you're being raised by your grandparents, their experience of living life and growing up is so different than what yours will be. Even like me growing up and my kids growing up now, I'm like, this is so different.
- [21:06]
Unknown
Yeah, there's a big disconnect.
- [21:08]
Katie
Big disconnect. And so just normal things. And socially, it was so hard to navigate. I definitely felt so isolated at that age. But it was immediately for me, it was like, there. I can't go back and just Pretend like yesterday was normal and look at you now. And I remember feeling like I had always called them Mama and Daddy. And I. I couldn't get the words out anymore. Like, it was. I couldn't say it the same. And so it was a lot of just shut down at first, because I really didn't. I was very unsure.
- [21:55]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [21:56]
Katie
Of what I felt. And it came out as frustration. I was just like, no one gets me. Like, everyone in this family hates me. Why isn't someone sticking up for me?
- [22:09]
Unknown
And at that point, did anyone explain to you, like, the reason why? Or it was just like, here's an answer. And that was kind of it.
- [22:17]
Katie
That is it. And they actually told me, like, you will never bend us over a barrel and make us tell you this. You have to accept not knowing. And that is when I became rebellious and, yeah, very upset, because at that.
- [22:29]
Unknown
Point, it would just be like, well.
- [22:30]
Katie
Why did you even tell me exactly how I felt? Yeah, it was worse. And I think the way that I process things is by being walked through it verbally. Like, communicating through things is peace for me. Closure. It's understanding, knowing that now it's become such a. Like, huge thing for me with my kids. But especially being a parent now, I'm like, that is actually such an important thing. But it was the way my family dynamic was. Don't talk about it. Like, don't speak about it. Don't let word get out there. She continually would lie about me being her daughter, about having me, about my relation to her. And that was devastating because not only did it come from a place where up until that point of her telling me, I thought the world of her.
- [23:27]
Unknown
Right.
- [23:28]
Katie
And I was like, what is so bad afterwards? Like, what. I did great in school. I had great grades. I was a straight A student up until high school when all of this started going on. And it was. I had always tried so hard. I was like, I understand, like, the social element and being. You know, teen pregnancy is very difficult in its own to process. I completely empathize with that level of things that she was processing. But it was exactly after that, like, why did you tell me? Just for me to, like, have this huge secret to sit with? And it feels so shamed. And I remember it got as far as in the worst times. Like, they had threatened to send me to the Appalachian Girls School if I kept asking questions. And it was essentially like, I think there was a period in time where my grandparents were just lost with what to do. Like, they were already in so deep by.
- [24:35]
Unknown
Right.
- [24:35]
Katie
Having Done this and telling, like me knowing at that point and being old enough to have a voice, but still being a dependent child who is at home, living at home and going to school and having to deal with all of this.
- [24:50]
Unknown
And I feel like it definitely hurt more to see your. I'm gonna say mom sister, but I feel like I. I feel like it probably hurt a lot more seeing her raise other kids. Because then it's like, now that you know this information, I think it, you know, even though obviously there's, you know, the time difference and whatever, now she's at a different place in her life. To tell somebody that you would hope that in some way, at least the dynamics, if they were going to change, it would be more love, you know, even if something wasn't being told socially, you know, to the public. And then I feel like to have that being told to you, but then to still have to see someone that now you know is your biological mom raise other kids, and then you just feel this rejection and shame. I feel like that only causes more hurt and trauma.
- [25:46]
Katie
I don't even have great words to like, register what that felt like. And one of the biggest struggles that still on August 15 this year, she will post my little sister's birthday and say, the one who made me mama. She posted every year and has always said that. And like, after telling me, and I don't understand it, like, I remember when they were having my little sister and there was a little rocking chair in the room, and they were like, you can sit in this. It's gonna be so exciting to have this little baby. And I was so excited. And of course, I didn't know she was my little sister at the time. I was just excited to have a baby around. And I remember feeling so excited. And I genuinely felt like positive things were going to come after initially. And I just started to, like, process more and realize, like, we're going in the opposite direction of that. And that was actually that specific element was the first thing to push me over the edge of, like, emotionally. I have to know more because they. My little sister went to school, but it was a. I remember hearing, like, no one can know. My little siblings didn't know. And they weren't told initially which little brother was just a baby. He was a little newborn infant, so there wasn't much telling him. But even as he got older, like, it was a secret kept from them as well. And my little sister found out from a teacher at school. And so for me, like, at that age, I was just like, what is wrong. Like, what is so bad that you can't just admit it now? Like, I do exist and we're here, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened here. But I. I didn't understand it, and I still don't. And that was the point of. I was like, maybe the dad element is actually why all of this is so much weirder for me. And it hurtful to a degree that I can't. Like, I survived those years because of my friends and their moms. And so I have many thanks to go to my friends and their moms at that time. But I asked one friend specifically, her mom at the time, I think I was 16, because I believe that I was driving myself at this point. I think that I had just gotten my license. But I remember asking, and finally I. Everyone around me was like, you definitely deserve to know who your dad is. Like, we can't actually believe your family hasn't told you. And they said at the time, we believe it's this man. There was rumor at the time that all of this happened because when I say small town, everyone knows everyone.
- [28:56]
Unknown
So your friends, moms, grew up with your mom. So that's why they had an idea of who your dad might be.
- [29:03]
Katie
Yes.
- [29:04]
Unknown
Okay.
- [29:05]
Katie
And pretty much like, if you went. There are three schools to go to in this area. You know, pretty much everyone, but especially anyone in the county school system, you know, everyone. You know, the families, and they're just like. It's one of those places where there's like six, seven last names for the most part. And those families have just kind of congregated there for years. But this family in particular was close, and they went to school and ages were all close with different members of my family. And so we went to the same church and everything like that. And I remember her telling me there was a rumor that it was this man. But to give you more of a picture on that, he did go to prison. And I was like, that's such a simple answer. That would have been really casual if you had just said that. What's the deal? So I remember leaving their house that day, and I was like, I wonder if I could just look up his family to see. And I was just trying to see a resemblance of my face and someone else to see what I thought. And I looked up. He was. He was still in prison. But I did look up his family, and I found the family's address, and it was right down the road. And I remember sitting there, and at that point, I Felt like I just had nothing to lose. And I remember just driving to their house and knocking on the door.
- [30:41]
Unknown
That is literally like a movie.
- [30:43]
Katie
And I was like, hi, you don't know why I'm here. And I remember it, like, now thinking about it. I'm like, oh, you really just dropped in on someone like that. But I did, and I just wanted to know. But I remember sitting down and they had heard it, and they had just kind of like, not engaged.
- [31:07]
Unknown
And this was his parents.
- [31:09]
Katie
This was the man who had been rumored to possibly have been my dad. This was his parents.
- [31:16]
Unknown
Okay.
- [31:16]
Katie
So his parents, house, but family all lived kind of close there.
- [31:20]
Unknown
Okay.
- [31:21]
Katie
His mom is the one that opened the door, and they brought me in to the kitchen table and we sat down and talked. And I remember. I remember just feeling like I just don't think this is it, but I accept it. Like, I accept that answer because it's the only information that I have right now. And they talked me through, like, what they had heard and the rumors that had just floated around at the time. And I remember, I think I asked, like, can I speak to him? And he did call me from prison, but I felt zero connection. And it. I couldn't decipher that. But it. Naturally, I knew that it would. But word did get around to my family. And I remember being told, like, you need to let it go. You need to leave it alone. But 100%, we will tell you and confirm for you that he's not your father. But we will agree to pay for a DNA test for you to know that for sure, if you would like. So they did offer to pay for a DNA test with that family, but I did. I immediately believed it, even though, like, I could just tell.
- [32:38]
Unknown
Well, it's funny because I, you know, from you telling your story up until this point, it's very obvious that you have a very strong intuition. Like, I feel like just from a young age, it's just. Just, you just knew.
- [32:52]
Katie
And I don't know how to explain that.
- [32:53]
Unknown
Right.
- [32:53]
Katie
Like, you.
- [32:54]
Unknown
You're just very in tune with your intuition. I think it really can just be as simple as that.
- [33:00]
Katie
I also think that there's some level of, like, anxiety that, like, hones you in on that. So I had just. I was analyzing everything, like, people's emotions.
- [33:12]
Unknown
But I think, too, you have to be a certain level of aware of these things. And that's not a bad thing. I mean, in ways. Yeah, like, the anxiety part, that sucks, but. But not many people can pick up on all of these things. And I think that it's pretty incredible that you're able to do that, especially being, you know, all this happening so young to you.
- [33:33]
Katie
And I think there's so much of that, honestly is. Maybe I was privileged in the area of listening to myself, because that was like the constant voice that I had to listen to was myself at that point. So I think I practiced a lot listening to myself and trying to really like, sit with it for a second and pick where you go with that. But I remember immediately, kind of after talking to him and talking to his family and seeing faces, just feeling like that was an empty connection and it didn't bother me. But we, we did stay in contact for like a year after that, and it just kind of dwindled out. But I, Things got very mentally dark for me and I actually, when I turned 16, it was almost unbearable. And I just. At that age, you need someone in your corner. And I really, I can empathize a lot with her at like being a scared 16 year old who's going through a lot. But I think more than that, it makes me understand more how much you need a supportive family at that moment. Because I think that there's almost this, like, yes, a hateful teenager or like a moody teenager is such a stereotype, but I think there's such a sensitive spot for those years, and I think they're so developmentally impactful for you. And I think that is such a sensitive time for relationships developing. And for me, the level of. Now I, now I know that it's abandonment issues, but the level of worry that I would experience with just like, are my friends gonna stop liking me suddenly one day or is this like a high school boyfriend not liking me because of something that I'm doing? I felt like I was never enough at that point in my life and that I could not find an area to be enough in. And I tried really hard to find that and didn't at that point in my life. And so mentally it was very dark. And that was really the start of like the mental health struggle for me. And the, the days were dark at that point. And I did, I did not handle it well. I didn't really know how to navigate it. And that was. I did ask for therapy. And I remember being taken and I remember sitting across from the therapist and watching her eyes change when I said this. And at that point I was just like, yeah, you know, like, my family raised me with my sister and then suddenly one day told me she was my mom and then suddenly was like you don't know who your dad is and you're never gonna know. And now I feel like this. And I hadn't really. My body protected me because I hadn't really processed it fully at that point. And came you at 16 with the undeveloped frontal lobe?
- [36:48]
Unknown
Well, I think the issue is, you know, just from an outside perspective looking in, it just seems like she had this, I don't want to say near death, but almost this health scare and thought to herself, now might be the time. But I don't think that sometimes people think things through and sometimes, you know, especially at that age, because like you said, it is such a crucial age to have support and have love and have family and telling you at that age and then not having anything change, but then also not giving you all of the answers, what other result do you expect to happen? You know, it's like that is almost the most normal way for things to go. Because to drop a bomb and flip someone's life upside down and then be told, oh, but we can't, we can only tell you this. We can't tell you the whole rest of it or why or who your dad is. That's going to make somebody lose their mind in confusion and frustration. And on top of it, you're this young girl who is trying to find herself. And in a way I feel like that sets you forward, but it also sets you back because you have so many questions.
- [38:09]
Katie
Oh, I grew up in the like, the key phrase of my life from like 13 to 18 is just, you are so wise beyond your years. Like, you were just so strong and independent and capable. And I was like, I don't want to be. You don't want to be those things right now. But I. There, that is exactly. And I remember at that point, like I was just trying to like seek feeling okay day to day and that I started running, that was my outlet. At that point I started running track and cross country and my. One of my closest friends at the time, Haley, her dad was my track coach and he. I still call him coach. But her mom, Erica, is also one of the women that I have to thank. And she would just always. She always gave the best advice. And that was my little. I would try to set things up to where I was at home the least amount of time possible. So I got dropped off before I started driving or I would get to school that morning. And then I feel like track practice was at like 4 o' clock or something. There was like a weird gap that you had after school. And I would go home with her and stay there, or I would sit with one of the older girls and ask them to take me to track practice or cross country practice. And I started doing little things that set up this little safety net of peace. And so my friends genuinely are the reason that I survived the hard years. But they were also supportive in a very healthy way. And at 16, that was really. I was just kind of like, I don't know what to do, but I know I can't do this anymore. And then 17 was kind of the peak. But we. I was very privileged and fortunate that the college in my hometown offered, I think it was called, like, dual credit classes at the time. So I was able to be enrolled in high school and college at the time, and that with like, a couple AP courses and counted for more credits. And so I was able to do an online program and graduate early, which I did. And then after that, I remember feeling like home was so tumultuous because it was at that point that they were like, if we can't manage. And I started talking more openly in the community. And I was just like. I remember being like, this is emotionally not okay. Like, this is emotionally abusive. And that word was like, no, no, no, no. Never say that. Like, don't. But it got really hard to manage anything day to day and relationships. And it was like a sadness I couldn't explain to see people have that relationship with their mom. And I felt extreme, like, envy and jealousy in a sad way. Anytime I would see that and like, the. I would see a friend go through, like, a high school breakup and they're receiving support from, like, a mom who's been there and that I knew that was unobtainable for me. And it was also like going from having parents to. To not. And it was like a cease to exist in that way. So it was almost like mourning these roles that were still, like, the people who filled that role in my life were still alive. But it was such a difficult dynamic to process, and I didn't know how to do it. But I remember just feeling like, if I am going to survive, I just know I have to leave here. And I think that I'm 17 at this point. But I remember my boyfriend at the time, I told him, and he always encouraged me to, like, think through things in a healthy way. But he was like, you should just move out here. And he was in the Air Force at the time, stationed in Las Vegas.
- [42:36]
Unknown
And I was like, what do I gotta lose?
- [42:39]
Katie
I have nothing to stay here for. Why would I not. And he was like, you know, you can just hang out for a second and regroup your life. But he was so nice. I did go out to visit before, and that was a whole crazy other story. But I remember just being like, I'm not. I'm not meant to stay here. And if I want to feel okay, like, I know that I just have to, like, go out in the world by myself and figure that out. And so I had no expectation for anything at that point. But I did move out. I booked the very first flight on my 18th birthday. The soonest available was 2:00am So I turned 18 at 12:01. I went to a T Pain concert at the only 18 and up club I could get into at the time. And my cousin and one of my best friends at the time, we went and we danced and we went to the airport and we cried. And I took my dog and just what I could carry and I moved away. And that was like. I remember leaving and just. I'll probably cry, but it's just. It's a normal. I remember leaving and just looking out the window and being like. I feel like people are supposed to be devastated, but I feel like I have, like, just sadness lingering. So I'm watching all the little lights and I'm like, it's just me. And so I got there and everything did get better. It was very. It was absolutely the right choice for me. And I got in therapy. That was like the first thing I did. People turn 18 and they're like, I'm going out in the world. And I was like, I'm going to therapy on my own. And so we got there and my focus was just one like, girl, you need to be in therapy all the time processing it and like, trying to navigate how to do that. But I also. I started having really serious health issues at the time also. And it seemed like my body would always respond to the emotional, tumultuous side of this. And I would be in the hospital for days. And I remember I was hospitalized a few times, but one of the last times that I was hospitalized, one of the ER doctors that came in asked if I had had this specific test run, an ANA test. And he came back. And I remember he just like, smacked some papers down. And he was like, you've been suffering all these years. You have a lupus. And I was diagnosed with lupus at the time. And so that kind of shifted the way I had been thinking about life. And, you know, kids came up. We knew we wanted to have kids, but I Got pregnant with our daughter at the time, and that was. I knew that I didn't want to have kids to just, like, fix this problem in my life, but I knew that whenever I was ready that I could erase the hurt in their life. Like, they would never experience what I had. And so I was very much so looking forward to being able to experience that. And.
- [46:09]
Unknown
And I think there's some sort of therapeutic feeling and being able to provide your kids with what you didn't have 1,000%.
- [46:21]
Katie
And that for me, I was like, I don't care. I don't care if we have a legacy to give you one day, but you will have an emotionally healthy and safe childhood. And that was the number one goal. But I remember when I was pregnant with my daughter, everyone felt like, you know, like, they were missing this huge thing in my life, and it was genuine initially that they wanted to know and come back in because I had. I had cut my family off.
- [46:56]
Unknown
So when you left and you moved, did they all try to contact you and be like, where'd you go? No one reached out.
- [47:04]
Katie
My grandparents. I did still talk to my grandparents.
- [47:07]
Unknown
Okay.
- [47:08]
Katie
Mostly my grandma.
- [47:09]
Unknown
And you just told them, I just need to get away.
- [47:11]
Katie
I told her. I remember saying, like, no matter what, like, you know me, and, you know I'm leaving. And so, like, I can disappear forever or we can try. And I had told her that, like, I would rather not lose everyone. And so we stayed in contact, and she and I would talk, but I had told her, you know, like, you do have to respect. I. Like, my mother and I are not talking. My biological mom. And my life is to remain private from her at the time. But my aunt, who I'm named after.
- [47:51]
Unknown
That'S your biological mom's sister.
- [47:53]
Katie
So great aunt. Actually, it is my grandfather's sister.
- [47:57]
Unknown
Got it. Okay.
- [47:58]
Katie
But on my mom's side. Yes.
- [48:00]
Unknown
Okay.
- [48:01]
Katie
So she's an angel, for one. Like, she is just one of the best people that I know. But she was always a huge source of, like, a healthy family member in my life, and she would call and check on me, and she always. She was just always. They never had kids, and she loved having that dynamic. So they were retired when I was little, and so they took me to Dollywood, and we just always had the best time. So we had a very close relationship. But I remember her telling me that it was always hard, and she kind of knew how to read the room and, like, what to tell you that wouldn't hurt too much or make you sad, but enough. So you knew, like, people do care about you. But I remember her telling me my biological mom's husband at the time would ask about me and would ask if I was okay. And I thought the world of him. Like, he was a very impactful figure in my childhood. But she had told me that. And I remember it was. It was still a sadness. Like, you want. You think I want my kids to have family, too. I don't want you to just have a mom and a dad, even though that's okay.
- [49:32]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [49:32]
Katie
Like, I. I would love to be able to give you that. And so we did reconnect. But I remember telling her, I remember sitting at work that day pregnant, and I remember, like, texting the words. Maybe not the exact version, but I was like, I don't want. We had. I had her number blocked, but they got a new phone service, so she got a new number and had sent a message and had said, you know, like, we're gonna drive to Vegas to talk in person if you don't answer. And so I did respond, and I said, you know, unless you'll tell me who my dad is, I don't want you to contact me or be present in my life, because I. I do deserve to know that. And I'm sitting here pregnant with my child, and I can't imagine keeping that from her, even if it was a situation where you had my best interest at heart and it wasn't perhaps, a great person that was a great fit to be a parental figure. But she did tell me, and she sent a screenshot of his Facebook profile, and I remember looking at it that day, and I looked at it, and I was like, this just looks like a nice man with a nice family. But I saw his face, and it was like me.
- [50:57]
Unknown
And was it anyone that you had found in any of the yearbooks?
- [51:03]
Katie
Yes. I had looked at his name before, and there was actually two with the same first name. And I had thought because his name was all over the attic, and that's just. I knew it was there somewhere. But yes, I had found his name, and I had found a picture of him in the yearbook that. I mean, he was a kid at that time. I remember looking at the picture, and at the time, it was still their wedding pictures. He was married to this woman, and she was beautiful, and they just look like they had a picture perfect little family also. And I could see that I had siblings, and I just felt like, well, I don't want to ruin anyone else's life with this, because I know, like, as soon as I say this to you. I can never unsay it. You can never unknow it. And I don't really know what the situation is, because looking him up, he was like, 10 minutes down the road.
- [52:04]
Unknown
It was in Vegas or in. Where you.
- [52:07]
Katie
Where I grew up in Kentucky.
- [52:09]
Unknown
And when your mom told you who he was, did she tell you? He has no idea. She just told you his name?
- [52:17]
Katie
Just told me his name. And I. I developed, like, an anxiety and. And, like, an inability to ask questions to a certain degree. So that wasn't my response to.
- [52:31]
Unknown
Right.
- [52:32]
Katie
Go back and forth and communicate about it.
- [52:34]
Unknown
Like, that was enough, because you've been wondering for so long.
- [52:37]
Katie
And I think that the way that I experienced it, it was so I was forced to find so much information on my own. I was like, I can just find this out. Yeah, on my own. But I had tried really hard. I did request my birth certificate, and he was unlisted because I thought, like, I remember asking once when I was younger, like, what time was I born? I wanted to know my zodiac information. And I was trying to do an astrology chart, and I was like, I would love to know what time I was born. And I rem. Remember asking her, and she said, like, I don't really remember. Like, it was late. Ask Gail. And so that hurt. Like, that was like. Like I was so insignificant, you can't even remember what time I was born. And I. I've had two children now, and that just. No matter the circumstance, I can't imagine that I could make that leave my brain. But that was such a difficult thing to feel. Like I didn't really understand or know anything about, like, my pregnancy or birth or just small things. I think that, like, came back that you process in different layers. And being pregnant with my daughter, I remember thinking, like, was I just, like, tossed in a bin and, like, rolled over to the side and, like, left there to cry? Because they. They told me when I was a baby that, like, I just cried and was the most inconsolable baby. And I think that makes me so sad just as a mom, especially to think from the perspective of little baby, how that you can go through with that. But I also, after that, like, in my pregnancy, I think I had healed to a point at that point where it was this. It was such a motivation to protect her from that and to make it the most positive experience that I could. And so it was blissful pregnancy. It was amazing. And I couldn't wait. I remember finding out she was a little girl, and that was the best. But I remember saying after that, like, this is mine. Like, this is my time. I won't contact him yet. And we talked after I had my daughter, and it was purely amazing. I was literally like, no one is coming into this environment and ruining it. We wanted to have kids somewhat close together. My kids have an almost two year age gap. And so I got pregnant with my son and was just like, this is the phase of my life that I'm in. This is mine to enjoy. I'm going to be the most present mom that I can be. I don't feel like this is the time to open up a new layer of a wound, to process that. But I remember we lived in Missouri at the time due to the Air Force. So we were in Missouri and we were coming home to visit family, and I was going to see my mom's side of the family at this point. They were always kind of on the rotation. And we went home. My little brother had a game that day, and she'd said some things and was like, well, you know, like, I'll pay for you to go get your hair and lashes done before this. And so I went and, like, right before the appointment, I'm sitting there and she had texted me and she said, hey, by the way, you can't tell this girl that I'm your mom. She thinks that you're my little cousin. So she asks, like, don't say anything or tell her that. And it's like, you go back to being a little girl who can't understand. And again, I was like, I'm a grown woman, my kids in the backseat. Why does this feel like that? But it is. It's like every time. And I remember I did go to the appointment. I was like, you know what? I am gonna go get my hair done and I'm gonna get through it and it's gonna be fine. But we went in and the first thing was lashes. And I don't know if you've ever had a lash extension appointment, but you're taped shut, you know, and laid down. And so we're there and it's. It just starts like a normal small talk. And we're laying down and she tapes my eyes shut and I'm ready. And she's like, so how do you know your mom? And I'm laying there and it's like.
- [57:33]
Unknown
Please don't ask this right now.
- [57:34]
Katie
You have five seconds with an awkward pause to make up what you're gonna say or to just go with it. And I remember I said, like, I'm not lying for you. And I had said that, like, I'm not lying for my family. I'm not. Like, you have never considered how uncomfortable this made me. And I'm okay if you feel uncomfortable. And actually, like, I don't owe you going along with that because you live here, and you're gonna have to deal with it. Deal with life with these. I. I've had to deal with this. And I said, you know, like, actually, she's my biological mom, but that's not really our relationship.
- [58:15]
Unknown
Good for you.
- [58:16]
Katie
And I remember hearing the nails on the phone. Like, my eyes are taped shut. And I hear, like, she's texting. And I know that that was like, bomb dropped the eyelash lady. Like, you just hear immediately. And it was like, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. And I'm sure that it was just like, you guys have no idea what I just learned.
- [58:44]
Unknown
That's crazy, though. Like, she could have waited.
- [58:47]
Katie
Could have waited. Oh, no. Immediately. Like, I am hearing it immediately. And so I am literally just fuming with anxiety. And I remember laying there and feeling like, you're just on the table getting a service from someone. And I remember thinking, like, I know she can see my heart beating through the fabric of my shirt. And she was really nice. Like, she wasn't. But I do think that it was this huge secret. And unless you knew my biological mom from, like, high school on, I think that she found peace in kind of having that piece of information shoved away from everyone and no one knowing. And I think that that was from her side, like, people finding out that was the bottom falling out for her in these situations.
- [59:40]
Unknown
Which is interesting to me because I thought that came to my mind. Is she. I think, in my opinion, she was looking for at it all from such a negative perspective, because I think in a way, her releasing that probably would have been super healing for her. Because there's no shame in. If you really look at it from a whole big picture. If it was approached differently after telling you there's no shame in any of it, it's okay.
- [60:13]
Katie
Absolutely. And not even that you, like, had power.
- [60:17]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [60:19]
Katie
Situation. And we lived in an area. I think it's very realistic to acknowledge that, like, there are less resources is higher. Like, you could have been a voice for really positive.
- [60:31]
Unknown
Exactly.
- [60:33]
Katie
And I think that's why I'm like, I can't understand.
- [60:38]
Unknown
But some people. Yeah.
- [60:41]
Katie
And that. I think that point specifically for me, I was like, what is. What is, like, unadmittable.
- [60:53]
Unknown
Right.
- [60:53]
Katie
About me. Why, Like, I'm a Mom. I graduated college, I became a mom. Yeah, I've been as good of a mom as I could be to my kids. Like why can you no longer admit.
- [61:08]
Unknown
Or yeah, like at what age do we grow out of this?
- [61:11]
Katie
You can't find any reason to admit it or like find a positive reframing at this point. And it was just, it's a rejection, it's heartbreaking. Again, can't explain. And that that day I left immediately and it was the most guttural cry to my husband. Then in the car of like I remember walking out and it was like I can compartmentalize so well until you like cross the threshold of being able to process. And so the appointment held it together. Not a tear. Walking out the door. Like my nose was burning as I reached the threshold of the door and I could feel like the few steps back to the car like it was coming and it was like, like a guttural release cry. And it's, it's like the most physically exhausting cry. And I messaged my friends at the time in our group chat, the group chat had to know and one of my friends spoke up and was like I think this is the time you should just message your dad and see what's up. Because what if, what if he just like didn't know and you could meet him and have this positive experience. Like what's the worst that happens? He doesn't want you, same as this, but you don't even know him so it won't even hurt in the same way. And I was like, to be honest, I actually feel like I could accept that on such a fine level and just feel okay that I've told him and confronted it and admitted it. So I formed this plan and I am staying, mind you, at this time in my childhood bedroom. Like the bedroom I grew up in. I'm staying overnight in it while we were visiting from Missouri at my grandparents house. So I am in my childhood bedroom closet typing a message at this. Why am I sit like I needing just such privacy? I don't know. But I remember sitting there and trying to frame it in a way because I had looked at his Facebook profile so, so many times and I had just seen this little family. It just looked like the perfect little family that was about to have a bomb go off. And I really had an understanding of like being left to process that after, you know. And so I told myself you're going to wait because this one, this man, this is a blue collar man, he works, he will be asleep after 11 so I tell myself I'm like, I will write this up, send it to the group, group chat for proofreading and, like, reframing. I need someone else to put their eyes on this and read this, and then I'll send it. And I had written it out and sent it to them. And I just wanted it to be, like, a brief synopsis of what I knew and why I was reaching out to him. And also, like, the ball is in your court. If you open this and you never want to contact me, I'm telling you, like, I fully accept that and respect that and understand that. And I remember I sent it and I, like, turned my phone over face down and was like, you can't do it. But it also probably went to his message request. He might never even see this, and that will not feel great. So I sat there, and I remember I just sat down and I was just trying to get my heart rate to come down and return to normal. And I'm in my childhood closet writing all of this, trying not to wake up my children. And I remember I thought that the girls had responded. And I turned my phone over and I click it face ID registered it was him. And I had no intention of opening the message right away, but I opened it like, an immediately open to his response to my message. And I typed this whole thing out. And I just remember it's so funny, because if you know me, please send me a message before you call me. Don't call me out of the blue. And all he said was like, can I call you? And attached his number. And I was like, anxiety. I was so anxious that, yeah, that was like.
- [65:51]
Unknown
How soon after did he message back after you sent it?
- [65:54]
Katie
Not even five minutes. Like, it was crazy. I thought it was my friends, right? I thought it was the response to me saying, okay, I send it. Yeah, it was him. And I opened it immediately. And I was like. So I had planned this. It was a, like, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And he responded, and we talked on the phone immediately that night. Like, I did call, and we talked for hours. But I learned in that conversation, he did not know. He had no idea. He did know that she was pregnant in high school and that she disappeared and that there was this whole, like, hiding the thing that went on. But he also, I guess he had actually, after he and I talked, came to our house and, like, tried to reconnect with her.
- [66:50]
Unknown
Wow.
- [66:51]
Katie
And the family was just like, don't be around here, you know?
- [66:54]
Unknown
Does she know that he came to the house?
- [66:57]
Katie
So they ran him off and basically said, you know, like, don't push this any further. And he didn't. But he did not know that he had a baby and that I existed. And so initially, I think it was just shock, but he was like, I want to meet. You have two brothers and a little sister. I want you to meet them. And before we had ever met in person, he was like, you know, your little sister has a basketball game this weekend, if you want to come. Like, it is just. I would love to meet you. And so I had asked him. I was so anxious, and I did not know how to do this. And I. I could tell immediately that it was just different. And so it wasn't like, am I meeting this person who might be my dad? I knew that I was, and so I said, can we meet at Cumberland Falls? Which it's beautiful, but it also. I knew that it was one place. There was no cell phone service, and we planned to meet at a little restaurant that was there. And it's so funny because as we were running in, it started raining. My little boy dropped his pacifier, which he was so little at the time. I remember being like, great. My baby's gonna cry the entire time. Like, I'm just going to have to sit here and nurse baby the entire time. I'm meeting my dad to get through and survive this. But immediately, I remember, like, seeing him in the parking lot and looking at his face and feeling like, this is right. But my daughter was just a. She's a mama's girl and a daddy's girl and a nobody else's girl. And she was. She didn't really go to people. She wasn't just, like, reach her hands out to anyone. But I remember she looked at him and just reached her arms up to him on that day, and he was holding her. There's pictures we have the first day we met, and he's just got her, and she just looked like, that's where I'm supposed to be. But it was initially. It was just so positive. Like, I remember he said that, like, as I was walking up to meet him, that I looked so much like his mom and that he was looking at me just like a face that you haven't actually seen in person before coming at you. It's your daughter. But for me, it wasn't just like, you have a surprise daughter. I was like, I come with an entire family. Also, you have grandkids. You became a parent of an older daughter. You had no idea and grandkids in the same day. But he called after and was like, that was not enough time. I know that you live in Missouri, but we would really love to come see you and spend time with you. Can we drive up to spend more time with you? And the first time that he came to visit me in Missouri, I can't tell this without crying, so here we go. But I remember we had that conversation. We met one time in person, and they came to visit us in Missouri, and they showed up with a coffee mug with my dogs on it and this bag of things that were so personal. And that was like, you've known me for two days, and I feel like you see more of me than anyone else had that I have this family history with. And especially, like, as a mom, it was so much harder to process from a maternal side of things, of how it's possible or how you can have children that you enjoy parenting and one that is like a foreign body to you that you just are so rejectful of. And it. I know that there's so much trauma surrounding that for her, but it. It is something that I can't comprehend from going through it. But I remember there was so many layers. But meeting my dad, it was so positive at first. And then it became like, the hardest hill to get over, because then it was grief I never expected, because then it was like grieving and processing the loss of why I could have had in a dad. Yeah. And he. He had another baby, like, two years after I was born. So my brother and I are actually close in age. And that is part of the reason that I went to school in Tennessee, because we would have gone to the same school that they went to. We would have been so close in age. Like, there would have been. It's inavoidable. But the funny thing, I guess it's not funny at all, actually. But my brother's mother was my biological mom's close friend in high school, and she went and held my brother when he was born, knowing that she had a baby with his father and was sitting there, like, saying hi to my brother after he was born as a baby with our dad and her close friend and just got through it and pretended. And there was a time, and I think this is where it, like, got weird. And I started picking up on it because my cousin was very close friends with my brother, and they played basketball together, and their senior year was together, and so they were always at games together. But she would say things about my little sister on my dad's side about, like, such a beautiful little girl. Like, you'll just have to bring her up and let her play one day. And my cousin and my brother would go swim at her house before this was ever known. So she just, like, invited them in. My brother to, like, be a part of the family, but, like, no say in it. And she would talk to them at basketball games without even knowing. And after that, something that we talked about, and my dad was like, I don't even understand how you can do that or how you could engage with us like that and know that. But I. There were so many layers. And I found out after she found out that I had contacted my dad and that he knew and that we were pursuing a relationship with each other and that there's no going back and stopping it now, she did call my dad. And instead of it being a, like, apology conversation or an explanation or trying to understand this, and I'm sure that I was protected to a certain degree when I was told, but she was essentially like, these are all the reasons that you won't like her. She's fake boobs. She's basically like, everything you wouldn't love in this lifetime. Like, I don't think you should do this or pursue this or get to know her. And I have no specifics on that conversation because she called my dad privately, and they talk privately. But I think finding out after that and me being like, you're calling my dad after this to talk about my personal aesthetics. Not a description or explanation of this. Not a. Sorry, not a. I think that she just hoped in any way that we would not pursue a relationship together. And I am like, you meet me. You. I'm exactly who I am. There's no. I don't sugarcoat myself or my beliefs for my dad or my family. My dad and everyone on that side of the family have simply provided unconditional love from the very first moment of meeting each other. But after we met each other, then it was again, it was unlike anything that I initially expected because I knew it would be hard. But then I would hold my son because he was so little at the time and he was so dependent on mom, and I would break down, and it was like, I couldn't get through a day parenting without having that wound. Be. It was like taking the scab off every day. And I just. I went through a period of time where I had to hop back into therapy extensively right after because it was extreme grief and processing of. I just know. All those years that I beg to know my dad because I would say, you know, like, I'll give up anything. I Will I will do anything. Please, like, let me. I think in my years when I was like, if you would send me to the Appalachian Girls School, like, just give me to my dad, like, just anything. And I. It's like a gaping wound that you seek to feel in so many ways. Not feeling like you don't know who your parent is, at least for me, was really terrible. It was like, I can't know or understand myself without that element. But after finding out, it became perhaps harder because it was. I had processed it as like the child who experienced that and then the young adult who navigated that. But being a mom really, really made things hard and at the same time, like your biggest motivator and like the number one reason to get through it and to heal and to try and process it so that it's not seeping out into other areas of your life. But it was just like a loss of self. I remember crying, crying so hard. He would. They would leave and it was like going to visit was the happiest thing. And then it would be weeks of a grief pile to sort through and untangle. And living 10 hours away felt like you had finally gotten this thing that you had hoped for your whole life. And there's this huge separation and processing it from an adult. It is like looking back on the childhood and I would just see my dad interact with my kids, even if he were just holding them or something. Like, you just catch a glimpse of it and look at it and wonder what that would have been like or. I remember there were many years where I just wish so badly that, like, even if it's just a dad who knows nothing about raising kids, he could dress me like a blue collar worker alongside himself. And I would have preferred that. And I think it was really hard because I have no denial of how grateful and privileged that my life was and especially the like way my grandparents provided for me. They were in a different place in their life and they worked very hard for everything that they had, but they were also, you know, retired from a previous job and working again. And so my experience of growing up was cushioned and it was softer and there were small things that I remember she would bring up and she would just say, like, there was this often. It wasn't that she was removed from my life either. Like, I was navigating this and she was very present. They live right down the road, two houses down on the right side. So she was always there. And it wasn't that there was relief of the presence or the weirdness that was there. But I remember it was always like, little phrases, one that sticks with me that I will never. I. If someone says the word near my daughter, I lose my mind. Because I was called a spoiled brat so regularly growing up. And it was like, I would have an emotional teenage response to this and navigating this and it would be like, well, you're just a spoiled brat who appreciates nothing that has been done for you. And that was kind of. It was really invalidating because I was like, this is a entirely traumatic thing. We will not be discussing the brand of clothes that I was wearing in high school because I will acknowledge that I had an amazing life provided for me. And there's absolutely no denying that. But it does not make up for or negate all of the rest. But I remember being called a spoiled brat or like all of these little things. And it was comparison of like me driving a new car whenever I started driving. And I think for her, it was like the inability to separate her experience from mine. And I'm sure that there was a lot of, like, at that age wishing that things had gone differently. Like that that was the age where she was forced to deal with this and navigate that. And I have a lot of empathy for that, but in other ways, like, I was a very struggling and sad 16 year old also, and I could have navigated that. And I know, I think the thought for me was I was always like, you know, I experienced the same family. And there might have been social shame and disappointment from teenage pregnancy, but what were they gonna do but love you after that? Like, after that had passed. And there was always that realization of I was like, I was raised in the same family that you were. I don't understand what you think. And so for me, I was like, there is a choice. Because there no one could have kept my baby from me in that situation. And it was just a clear, like, I know you could. You could change it if you wanted to. And especially there were all those years, and I don't have the right answers or the right map of how to navigate that or how you should navigate that. I don't know that anyone does. But I remember just feeling this loss of connection entirely there. And it was like you had severed parents and mother. And feeling the strength of what a maternal relationship feels like with my kids made that painfully difficult. But my dad, after that, we got super close. And that was essentially like, I would just count down to my next trip to visit or my next trip to see them. And meeting the family, I was very Scared and nervous because I honestly, I didn't want anyone else's life to feel weird. And it's not only that, but I remember thinking of it of, like, even if I meet my family and love them and it's good, I'm still just going to be like this unknown, random older daughter. Like, will it ever feel like you're settled into the family? Or will it feel like you're this outlier, like you're this extension of a limb, but not really in the family, But I remember meeting them and feeling like I did always feel like a foreign body and just like, I'm different, My personality is different. Like, I just. What you see is what you get. I don't worry too much about other things, but I remember just feeling like I understand myself or see certain characteristics of myself with them. But it was, I think, the best way to explain it is just easy from the beginning. And it was really healing in the sense of my stepmom, who I was terrified to meet, because you look at it and you're like, I'm so sorry. Like, you had no idea. You were never signing up for this. And there's a little over a decade of age between us, so we're not terribly out of touch with each other. But she was just such a good communicator and so easy to talk to. And I remember feeling. We laugh now because we say, the night that I sent the message to him, she looked over and she just saw, like, a profile picture of this girl in this picture smiling, and she was like, who is that? And my dad, of course, having the same experience of me was like. Like, do I sit up? Do I stand up? I don't know how to react to this because I had said, like, hi, my dad's name, I'm Katie. Like, my maiden name was Stanley. I am my mom's daughter. And I was told that you could be my biological father. And while I have no confirmation of that, like, it's important for me to reach out, and I want to at this point, but I remember him telling me, like, on that side of how he experienced it and processed it, she said that he was just going through it. And I cannot imagine anyone. I can't imagine going through it with anyone. But Jess, that's her name, because she was literally just an angel from the beginning. And I think, like, the love extended to you from a mom, because she is my little sister, she's a daughter, and of course, my brothers, but, like, from a mom, just unconditional love from someone who has zero obligation, like no DNA ties, just complete unconditional love and like an acceptance. And that's what she said. So many people after they found out, you know, crazy story to tell. But she said that so many people would say like, Jess, like, you're just amazing for going through it. And she would just say, like, what were we gonna do but love her and love her babies, they're the best. And so the connection with my dad was so healing. But it started, it was like going through the process in reverse after meeting him and refilling everything. And even still today, like things happen and I'm like, small things, like a graduation, I'll go to a graduation and like, you'll just think about it and you're like, we'll talk. My dad would talk about like my brothers or something and he would just say like, you know, I never got to see that with you or know what that was like with you. And so there's just small things. I walk into his house. I. The last time that I was in my hometown visiting, I went to my childhood home to see my grandparents. I do see them occasionally. I remember looking around in a house that used to have pictures of me everywhere, hanging on the wall there and then, no, none. It's like walking into a home and you never existed. And I, I can't comprehend how you do that. But I don't think that it was intent on it. Like, I don't think it was intentionally, like take Katie's pictures down. But you look at it and you're just like, I couldn't do it. And then I walk into my dad's house. I remember afterwards, I wish that he like had pictures of me in any way. And it, it was very hard to talk to him and to hear him say things of like, well, I wish that I could see you when you were little because it's like meeting your child and knowing nothing thing about them. He. Not one detail. I met you as a 22 year old woman and that's all I have to go off of. But I gave my dad a picture of me or a couple pictures of me on my horse when I was a little girl. I was horse girl. That was like I used to, in my hard years of like not understanding at 12, right after I rode horses the little barn locally and I would beg to skip family vacations. I'd be like, please don't take me to the beach, please let me stay and ride my horses at the barn. And so I gave him pictures shortly after we met each Other and that was like instantly I would walk in and the pictures on the mantel like this proud display of me and just like the lack of shame and displaying that like this is my daughter and I'm so proud and happy to acknowledge that. But I had also gotten him this little thing made shortly after we started our relationship. And it was just immediately put in the middle of the mantle. And it's like a 360, like a complete, a completely different experience window. But it, I mean it still didn't create an immediately positive environment because my family after that, my. I was very close with my little sister on my mom's side initially, but it kind of. There was always the perspective shift. Like I can never. I was also never comfortable just saying like what my experience was. I'm. I don't. I fear that my siblings would never know my story or more details of the story if I hadn't talked about it. And I don't even know if it would be openly talked about ever, especially on that side of the family. But my little sister and I were really, really close. And more so as she got older, we kind of became closer and that was really nice. But as I got closer to my dad, I think there was almost this frustration of like, well, the family you traded in for your new family or like this shift of like the way things were talked about. And it was, you know, like she pretty much just wrote off the family that raised her. But I don't know how to explain that. They held this entire time of my life and my dad and I missed out on 22 years together. So like, yes, if I'm taking a weekend trip home, like he is priority on my list and the amount of time that I have with him will never be enough. And I definitely try to take as much of it as I can get. But it did lead to my mom and I have a completely estranged relationship. But it did kind of sprinkle further out into the family. And so now it's like growing up I had the close knit family, like the Christmas movies you watch where the family just like after church on Sundays they come over to the family house and everyone has dinner. That was the reality for me. And so those switch up from that. I didn't grow up in a close family or a family where that was normal. But now it's like I feel like when something happens to my grandparents and they're no longer with us that I will just not accept exist and that side of the family and I, I think that I have become More okay with it. And I think that, like, refocusing and just trying my best to focus on the life that I've built, because that was essentially, like, I had nothing to plan for with my dad. Even though it's been better than I could have expected. I had no idea what it would go or where it would go or how that would be received. But it is really hard because I. It was always so difficult to not be able to explain how hurtful that it was, because I would have loved to have just had a sibling relationship. That was always really hard because I was raised with an only child dynamic, besides seeing kids close in age in the family. But, like, I would have loved that. That was definitely like playing baby doll or doing things with them a lot. And it was always like, family just changed as we got older and relationships shifted and marriages ended and there was change. But after I moved away, I remember feeling like it's just like your body rejecting something that's inside of it. And that is essentially how I felt. Like, I was, like, this foreign. I was like the stitch that the surgeon left in after the surgery that was just like, trying to wiggle itself out for all those years. And then eventually you do, but it's just like, how do you explain to someone that a little kid just wanted a normal experience? And I guess, like, the communication, I think that alone could have been so different, and it just could have been such a different situation. And it's so hard to see that and to see, like, this was so simple. This was actually such a simple thing to navigate. And I did ask my grandparents after. I was like, you know, how. How can you say you loved me more than anyone in the world? Because that is, like, as a kid, you remember being little and being bounced and, like, loved on as a toddler, and it's someone that says, like, I love you more than anything in the world. I'll protect you. I'll always be there for you. And you were absolutely not in one of the most necessary dynamics and all you would have had. And they say, like, you know, we were so selfish because we knew if your dad knew that, that would have been a whole thing. Like, it would have been sharing you, and it would have been this split life and this split dynamic. And he. He lived right down, 10, 15 minutes down the road. And I just. I have no ability to really understand that dynamic, but through meeting him and I think still just you process it when it comes up and you navigate it. But building the relationship with my dad has been, like, building Blocks to look forward to. And it's kind of like Legos, I guess. The structure is maybe never finished, but it has been healing. And I think at least to have those relationships, even if they are non traditional or some slightly off the traditional sense, I think that, like, as the pieces, it's even like my dad will talk to me sometimes. Or I think we probably are two people who experience the same kind of like, I don't know, we have a lot of similarities in how we handle and process things as well. But how do you navigate it other than to talk about it when it comes up and to kind of communicate through it? But there are a few times where I would talk with my dad and I could tell I'm a crier. Like, I will cry, crying here today. I'll be crying in 10 years from now when I talk about this. But I would hear him be right on the verge. And it's like to see this man who's just this like, old school kind of guy, like, just like rough around the edges, blue collar guy, to like, hear the pain and the like, emotion behind it and to kind of see him. They're just small things. Like when he's talking, I would catch. He would speak about, like watching the kids or something, like my brothers or little sister. And I would just like catch him step sensitively around how he framed that and his words and stuff. And it's amazing. Like, that's. I appreciate it so much, but those are small things that are still. I will be having a fine day and something like that will come up, and then it's like you're just a young girl processing it all again. But now I feel like being a mom and having my kids, it really is. Even when it's like a wave coming back and it's hard. It is just such a. And I think I'm. I am very fortunate as a parent to have that as a baseline for perspective because I'm like, I will take a cluttered living room over being a more present mom with you today. And I think that at least like, building my own parenting relationships off of trauma and that dynamic, it has really benefited me as a mom. And I think that, like, that is. Kids will not fix. Kids are not a band aid. Like, they don't fix trauma in that way, but it is sort of a reframing and healing sense in that way. And my daughter now and my little boy, like, they are my motivators. And so for me, I think we just get through it at this point now.
- [100:19]
Unknown
Yeah. And I think, too, there's so many aspects of your life and story that hold a lot of grief and sadness and this missed time, but it really is such a beautiful, full circle ending. And I think that in life, a lot of times, you know, nothing's perfect. But the fact that I think for years you just felt all that rejection just to feel more love and this welcome that you probably couldn't even have imagined is such an insane experience.
- [101:09]
Katie
And I think for me, like, abandonment is like the. Yeah, the heart and root of what I feel. I used to have a recurrent nightmare that I was running and I could see, like, the group I was running to try to catch up to in front of me, and I could never catch them. And it was like they just kept running too far ahead or running too fast, and I couldn't keep up. And that was like a recurring nightmare. But I think that, like, from that side of things in my life, I have been able to appreciate and at least have this frame of vision on unconditional love. Because, like, your family, like, that's just such a fundamental part of life. And I think kids or anyone who grows up with a strained family dynamic, no matter what that looks like, always have, like, that struggle to overcome. But I think for me, it really has allowed me, and it's something that I haven't. I haven't always appreciated. But now especially, like, life is a collection of love in that way, and my friends and my friend's mom, and it was always. I feel like the biggest love in my life has been from the unconditional side where, like, you had no obligation to love me or to support me or be there.
- [102:44]
Unknown
It goes to show that blood isn't always everything. And for a lot of people, that might be a harsh sentence, but it is the truth. And I think that if we stay in this mindset that we need this because this is our blood, family or biological whatever, I think it keeps us in a place that can't always give us what we need wholeheartedly.
- [103:12]
Katie
Like, life is a collection of people. And I think I have just tried to reframe it as that. But genuinely, there was one, like, I feel like I never had. I had a great mother map of what I did not want to do and what I didn't want my kids to feel. But I remember trying to say, like, well, how. Because then most people look back at their grandparents, and that was strained for me as well. So I was like, I can't look back generations and see that in my family or see that in my line. But one of my friends in particular, Mimi. Her name is actually Emily, but we've always called her Mimi. Her mother at the time, Teresa and Erica, Haley and Mimi's moms in particular, like, they were the blueprint. The blueprint for me. And Teresa's specifically, literally, Mother Teresa. That's the running joke that I've called her throughout my life. But I remember, like, regardless of what mine was like, seeing a woman love her kids in that way and still, like, she was a great parent. She was a. Like, I don't care if you're in college, so you're cleaning this apartment. It was so healing, and it's almost like the little things that you cling to at the time, I would like, hold on to that. Of no matter what this relationship was like for me, like, I can provide that for my kids, because all I have to do is support them and love them and provide them, like, a healthy emotional dynamic here. And that was the start of being able to see that and then a step down from that, like their moms. But my friends were like, chosen family along the way. And every chapter, they're just like those few core people that were literally, like, life super glue at that time. And that has been, I think, something that become so valuable in parenting as well, because just small things. My daughter is in first grade now, and just small things of, like, we wanted to play a different game at recess. This is really hard. Like, she doesn't want to be my friend anymore because I wanted to play tag and she wanted to play jump ropes. What's going on here? I think that it is such a gift in that way to be able to share advice with my kids and to be able to share the value of relationships in life, because it's not. We do have a very unique family dynamic. And it's. They just had promotion ceremony, and it's been layered throughout my life. My daughter, actually part of what led to being completely estranged and no longer investing in that relationship at all was largely my daughter and the impact of that. And it was. I GUESS it was 20, 24, Mother's Day. She's so smart. She's like a little interrogator. She just. She's unfiltered. And it's just like, the innocence of being a kid. And she was like, hey, who do you call on Mother's Day? And I was like. And I. I really dislike Mother's Day. It is a very sad day for me typically. But I was like, well, it's. It's about Me and you. Like, it's actually my chance to celebrate being a mom. And she was like, yeah, but who is your mom? And I told her. And they've been around each other. Like, she does know who she is, but hearing her ask questions and to hear her process, that is a whole other level. And now it's. I will never be untruthful with them. So I always try to present it from like a. I'm telling you, in an age appropriate way. Yeah, but she would. She would just ask now. And I was like, you know, you. It will never seep onto you. Like, the hurt will not go any further than this. Like, it. It absolutely does stop here. And there were just small things. But the birthday thing, like, on my little sister's birthday, every year, she posts the one that made me mama, like, my first baby, the one who made me mom. And it was the same. My little sister is expecting her first baby. And that has been a whole, like, it is, like, directed denial of my kids now. And that's pain that I just am not ready to continue. And so I think we have gotten to a place where I feel much more confident just navigating it and understanding I will forever and always have hard days. I am continually processing this and I think that it's something that I will just carry with me forever. And I've accepted that. It is just. I can't predict what is going to trigger grief and that dynamic. It's. Sometimes it's the smallest things. I work weddings. That's like what I do, do photography and videography for weddings. And there are wedding days where, like, relationships with moms will have me feeling it. But I think that I've just gotten to a place now where, like, I'm very fortunate with where my life has ended up and turned out. And I'm so grateful for the support that I had along the way. And it's been. It hasn't been family. It has literally been all the people in my life, this little mosaic of people who had no obligation to me or to love me or to do anything, that have made sure along the way that we got there and that love and support were present in my life. But that kind of that is, like, worth getting through all of the terrible for.
- [110:32]
Unknown
You're incredible. Now I understand why people say, I think you need a movie. I usually tell people they need a book. I think you need a movie, that.
- [110:41]
Katie
It'S crazy and, like, I'll just remember something random one day. And I'm like, oh, yeah. As a kid, like, so and so happened and people like.
- [110:50]
Unknown
It's just. It's so interesting how full circle it really is. And like you said, you know, I think you hit the nail on the head. There's nothing that's going to take away the pain and the hurt and the rejection and the bedtime. Nothing's going to take it away. Of course, over time, with therapy, you can heal from it. You can break the cycle, have this amazing, beautiful relationship with your daughter, which is, like you said, it's worth everything, it's okay. But at the end of the day, you still have your younger self living within you, that it's normal and it's. There's no shame in feeling those sad times and looking back and being like, I wish I had this or that. Even though you had great experiences as well. There's no, nothing wrong with wishing you had more or the truth at the very least. But I think that how it turned out with your dad is the most beautiful way that it could have gone. And I think that it. It's really important to see, like I was saying before, how quickly someone can accept and love you that doesn't even know you, because I think that's what love is. Love is in the people that are always, you know, given to us by family ties or any of those things. It's just how it's. It really just goes to show, it's how people treat you right off the bat.
- [112:29]
Katie
Absolutely. And that, like, coming from that place, I have often said that to, like, friends, like, how do you say thank you for having no obligation?
- [112:42]
Unknown
Right. Your friends, their moms. Yeah. And it, it just. And I think in a way, like we just said, it doesn't take away anything that you felt or still feel from your own experience. But I think that it gives you so many different perspectives and allows you to teach that and show that to others and your kids and everyone around you. And it's almost like you become this anchor of understanding and learning in a different way. And it's like, yeah, you'll never understand why that it really doesn't make sense, but all you can do is feel sad for those people. That I think, to me, like I was saying before, it's almost like, in a way, I think a lot of people make things harder on themselves when it doesn't need to be. I think in. In any, in any experience in life, something could be turned into something healing and therapeutic. But not everybody has that level of understanding and wisdom and so many other characteristics to see it that way. And all you can do is feel for them, you know, and we can't expect everyone to be like us or everyone to view things like we do. But I mean, this is really an incredible story.
- [114:12]
Katie
That is how I feel at this point. Like, I.
- [114:17]
Unknown
There's so many learning experiences in it.
- [114:21]
Katie
And I think that you have the opportunity when you have been through something like that. Like, people, you hear the stories all the time. People go through the most horrifically traumatic things and so much good can.
- [114:40]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [114:40]
Katie
Come out the other side of it. That, like, I am so grateful that I can share that with people because that I have such a heart for, like a misunderstood teenager. Because I think so often, like, the emotions present in your teenage years, like, you are so much older and so much more capable. And I see it with my kids now, and I like processing it from that lens and that side of things. I was talking to my kids recently and I brought up to their dad. I was like, they are just intellectual little beings. Like, they have real conversations and they navigate it in such a way. But you get to this point and I remember feeling that way of. There is a level of teenage readiness, like they are ready, like, to be acting as young adults in some ways. And I think our minds categorize them there, but we don't think of also, like, how fresh that they still are. And I think now I have the opportunity sometimes, like, to speak to someone in that, like, age demographic who's just going through it. Like, it is hard to be a teenager and it's hard to do life socially. It's hard to be in school. Like, it's. Socially, it is all hard. But I think being able to share and to connect with that, like, misunderstood because everyone says that, like, you were so hateful. Like you, you just pushed back as a teenager. Yes, yes.
- [116:36]
Unknown
It was a reflection of what you were feeling inside.
- [116:39]
Katie
And that, like, that is just such a soft spot. And I think that there is this period of time when people are going through things. And I think for me that was just like a loss of my voice. And I remember, like, they would say that and I would think that, like, yes, I am a sure spoken, stubborn teenager. But it, like, I felt like the just loss of words and I couldn't. I could advocate for anyone, I could speak in any situation, but I, like, words were just gone when I would try and navigate that or say it. And so, so much of my reaction and experience at that time was just like silence and inward. And I think now especially it has allowed me to be able to Speak from the other side of that. And I think the voice of. If you feel like you're going through everything when you're young, like, you have to, you owe it to yourself to experience life the way that you want to and to really, like, go out and give that a chance. And I'm so grateful that I was encouraged to be brave by so many people along the way, because I think genuinely, like, sometimes you just have to be brave. Like, be terrified and do something anyways and just be brave. I remember one day I was like, why could you, at 16, just drive to this random stranger's house and knock on the door and leave? But you can't go in the grocery store at 23 because you're having anxiety in the parking lot? So it is just a different. Like a different side of the winds, honestly. But I do feel so much more so for so long, you feel like, why the hell is this happening to me? Like, why have I been made to carry this battle? And I remember just, like, on a health level, feeling like my body and life have betrayed me in so many ways. My health was always so touch and go. And I was like, why couldn't I have just, like, one problem to deal with? And instead it's like, the worst things in all areas. Why? But I do genuinely appreciate the perspective that it has given me more than anything. And I definitely have gotten to the point now where, like, I see the value of that and it's, would I trade what I went through for not going through that and having, like, the ideal childhood and scenario? Probably. But that wasn't an option in the dynamic that I was in. And so I guess at this point, I am so grateful for the way that it has resulted in the life that I have now. And I'm extremely grateful for that.
- [120:05]
Unknown
You should be.
- [120:07]
Katie
But we have been on a little journey together. Lots of tears.
- [120:13]
Unknown
You did amazing. You should be so proud of yourself.
- [120:16]
Katie
Thank you.
- [120:17]
Unknown
Like, you're natural.
- [120:20]
Katie
Thank you.
- [120:21]
Unknown
You are so good at telling your story, and there's so many things I could say, all positive.
- [120:32]
Katie
Thank you.
- [120:32]
Unknown
But I'm so grateful. So thank you. Thank you for being open to sharing your story on here and all the detail that you have and being so open. It means so much to me. And you're incredible. And, yes, you need a movie and a book and whatever else, seriously.