Host (3:08)

Congratulations.

Louis Ruggiero (3:09)

Thank you. Yeah, it took me 10 years to get one year sober. Well, we'll get into those fun years. I'm also a compulsive gambler. I just hit a year in Gamblers Anonymous. Took me 10 plus years to get a year in that program as well. Two very important causes in my life today and something that I'm really passionate about. I just started my own podcast seven months ago. It's called Nothing's off the Table with Louis Ruggiero. Focus on addiction. But the last couple months really been focusing a lot on the gambling stuff, given how legalized and glamorized and cool it is now, especially with the youth, which it's. It's not. It's very, very dangerous thing. But we'll get into that. So I grew up in Manhattan. I went to Catholic school until fifth grade. I got kicked out of Catholic school and then I went to this private school.

Host (4:01)

Kicked out.

Louis Ruggiero (4:02)

Oh my God.

Host (4:03)

So like I was gonna skip.

Louis Ruggiero (4:05)

I was just like, I was a mischievous kid. I wasn't a bad kid. And I tell people all the time that most addicts aren't bad people trying to get good. We're sick people trying to get well. And that was. I was an addict before I ever took a drink or a drug or a place to bet. And so for me growing up, it was always like little things like, you know, getting in trouble in class, throwing out of the school bus window on the way to school, like just like little mischievous things. And, you know, I going back to kind of like where my upbringing, how my upbringing was. My mom at the time, from before I was born up until I was a sophomore in high school. She did the 10 o' clock news, so she worked from 3pm till midnight. And this is. I've. We've come to this realization after like decades of therapy. I didn't see my mom a lot and I really yearned for her nurturing and loving and blah, blah, Blah, whatever. And I would feel as though there'd be more attention. I would get the attention that I wanted when I was in trouble. Whereas if things were just going status quo, like, my mom was just kind of, like, focused on her career and, like, you know, trying to be the best that she could be so that she could provide for my sister and I, which now at this age, I. I really do understand and respect. So I got kicked out of Catholic school, and they sent me to this private school in Brooklyn called Poly Prep. I get kicked out of Poly Prep in seventh grade. And at this point in time, I was in. When I was in Catholic school in second grade, I had ADHD. This was 2000, 2000, 2001, right? This was like, at the height of. When all of a sudden this word ADHD was coming out and, like, they were throwing all these kids on Adderall or Concerta or whatever, whatever it was out there. I was. I was put on 120 milligrams of concerta when I was in second grade.

Devora (6:11)

That's crazy.

Louis Ruggiero (6:12)

And I'll never forget her name. And I don't care if blasting. Her name's Dr. Anne McBride. And. And I used to go to her and I used to complain and say, I get these crazy headaches. I really hate this medicine. And it was kind of like a too fucking bad, because the only time you sit still and focus in school is when you take your medicine. So I was put on this medicine very young age. And the truth of the matter is, is that it kind of dulled me. Like, I'm this very outgoing, sometimes very obnoxious person. Sometimes it benefits me, sometimes it's not. And when I took this medicine, I was just, like, doled out. And it also dulled me out in my athletics. I, like, was afraid of contact. Like, I was overthinking everything I did when I played my sport. So I really, really hated it. And it also created this, like, binge eating thing, because when I was on it, I wouldn't eat. I wouldn't be hungry. And then the weekends, I wouldn't take my medicine out, binge eat all weekend because I haven't fucking eaten all week. So my early childhood, like, I was like, going always, like, from, like, Adderall skinny kid to, like, now this summertime. I'm always getting pudgy because I'm with my grandparents. I'm eating pasta and chicken parm, and I'm not on my medicine. I'm eating Tate's cookies and all the goodies my grandparents kept in the house. And that also led to, like, bullying and people calling me Meatball. Like, that was like, my nickname in middle school is the meatball, which I owned. And I, I, I loved. But I think, like, deep down inside, as a young boy, it, like, still kind of hurt a little bit to be called that.

Host (7:53)

I think, too, at that age, you don't really fully understand and grasp like, Like, I'm sure you kind of put it together of like, oh, when I stop taking my medicine, I'm eating more and I'm getting bigger, but at the same time, I feel like that back and forth, it's a lot on a child, even for your health and. Yeah, and everything.

Louis Ruggiero (8:10)

And the crazy. This is the even crazier part about it was, like, my parents, it got to a point by, like, fifth, sixth grade, where I was, like, so impulsive and, like, couldn't control my emotions or behaviors that, like, they didn't know what to do other than to listen to these doctors. Like, they just had no idea what to do. So when the doctor said he has to take this medicine, and then I would take the medicine, and I'm like, I'd get in trouble less and, like, my grades would go up and I'd be more focused around my academics. They'd be like, okay, he has to take the medicine. But when I would come back and say, it makes me feel like I get these headaches, I don't want to eat, I don't like playing, or when I play football, like, I'm afraid and I'm overthinking. It was kind of like a too bad type of situation because they just were not equipped to handle, like, I was so out of control sometimes and that, like, they couldn't figure it out. So I wound up going to school, Poly Prep, and I went there to play football. And it was supposed to be like, okay, like, different environment. He's playing football. Like, this is really great for him, and this is what he's meant to do and blah, blah, blah. And I wound up getting kicked out of there also. I, in seventh grade, I got suspended eight times for throwing out of the school bus window. I lived in Manhattan, the schools in Brooklyn. It was like an hour bus ride every day. And I was in fifth grade. And you're on the school bus with fifth grade through 12th graders, okay? And all the 12th graders would, like, instigate me and, like, egg me on, like, throw this bottle out the window. I'm like, all right, throwing out the window all the time. So I get suspended for Literally the same exact thing. Seven times, eight times, whatever it was. And then at the end of seventh grade, I wind up getting into a fight with some kid in my class. And they basically, they basically said, hey, we think he should go somewhere else that could better fit and handle his needs. And basically like, we're kicking him out. But you know, I, being the son of my mom, often came with a lot of bailouts. And for lack of better way of describing it, I was able to kind of skirt consequences. People will be like, he comes from a good family, he's just a kid and you just got to figure it out. And this is not the right fit. But there was, I was always getting bailed out. I never faced any real consequences. Consequences. So maybe subconsciously that empowered me as a young adult, as I got older and older and older that like, I can always wiggle my way out of everything. And it, it did. And well, as the story goes on, you'll, you'll kind of hear more about that. But I wound up going to the school in Manhattan. It's called Dwight. It's a great school. They had this program, it's called the Quest program. It's like an addition to your regular schooling. You meet with a private tutor who works at the school within your daily schedule. And they're like, it's for kids with learning disabilities. I'm dyslexic, which my parents never told me until I was 22 years old.

Devora (11:17)

Really?

Louis Ruggiero (11:18)

Yeah, because my mom said to me in family therapy, we didn't want to tell him because we didn't want him to use it as a cop out. So looking back on it, I definitely would have used it as an excuse all the time for sure. But I was in this Quest program. I go to the school, Dwight. The commute's easier. The commute's fucking 15 minutes. Crosstown bus, it's not an hour long bus ride, things out there, no time to throw shit out the window. And, and you know, my high school was like fairly normal. Like, I really didn't get in trouble that often. I got in trouble one time in sophomore year, I got into a fight with some kid in my class. He gets kicked out. He wound up pulling a knife on me. He gets kicked out, I get suspended. And that was it from 8th grade through 12th grade. That was my only like, issue that I had at the school. And my grades were good. I was a B plus, A minus student. I wound up getting like a 30 on my ACT. I got, I got accepted to George Washington University early decision. So, like, you know, my looks good now. I figured it out. I figured it out. And, you know, I think the one thing that kind of kept me together in high school was my, the structure of my athletics. Whether it was basketball, whether it was baseball, whether it was preseason in the fall, I, you know, if you played basketball, you had to do cross country to kind of get in shape or whatever. So I was always, I always had the structure of athletics kind of like keeping me out of trouble, keeping me away from smoking pot during lunch with some of my friends who did that every day who didn't play sports. And, you know, I, I, I was like a normal high school kid. And I get accepted to George Washington University, and I'm really looking forward to, to going, going away. And the summer before I left, I said to my mom, I'm like, hey, I don't think I want to go anymore. And I was like, can I take a year off? And she was like, and do what? And I was like, I'll, I'll just work. Like, I'll work at the family restaurant. She was like, no, you're going to school. Like, get your ass out of here. And she didn't say it like that, but she was like, my parents, old school Italians, they grew up with, like, you go to school, you get good grades, you get a job, you work for the man, you build your career, you support your family, and then that's it. Yeah, you know, it's like there's, there wasn't this what we have now, where it's like, we can start a podcast or be like an influencer, take your

Host (13:46)

time, figure out what you want.

Devora (13:46)

Yeah, I think too, like, it's probably

Host (13:48)

a fear for some parents of if they take that year, are they going to want to go after that year? You know, so it's, it's always, I feel like, in the best interest.

Louis Ruggiero (13:57)

And also during that time, like, for our parents, you couldn't get a good job if you didn't have a college degree, whereas now it's not really like that anymore. So anyways, I, I go down to gw and I don't play sports a gw. I join a fraternity. And this is kind of where my story really begins, of kind of really losing myself and also rediscovering myself and finding myself. And a lot of pain and a lot of confusion, a lot of tragedy, a lot of trauma. And you know, that word trauma is like, thrown around a lot, especially today. I think everyone goes through trauma in different ways, and it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor or middle class or black, white, green, blue, purple, we all experience it in some fashion or another. So when I get to college, I pledge a fraternity. And I dabbled with drugs in high school. Like, I'd maybe done cocaine once or twice. I drank beers occasionally. I smoked pot. Your normal high school shenanigans. And I'm pledging this fraternity, and it was intense. We drank a lot. We drank a lot. And I didn't come into college a drinker, but we drank a lot. And we were forced to drink a lot, obviously. And one night during pledge, my. My friend says to me, he goes, try Xanax. Like, take the Xanax. I'm like, no, I don't. I don't. With pills. I don't do that. He's like, just try it. Like, I promise you you'll feel, like, amazing. And I was like, ah, it. Whatever, I don't care. And I tried a half a Xanax. And I'll never forget the feeling of just being like, like, wow, this feels good. This feels, like, really good. Like, so good. This is kind of how I want to feel all the time.

Host (15:50)

Good, right?

Louis Ruggiero (15:51)

And that was it. It was like a very 0 to 100 type situation, which was like the type of person I am even till this day. I think I've gotten a little bit better at that. But I went from trying from doing a half a milligram of Xanax to within. That was in September. By December, I was doing 10mg of Xanax a day. And I had. I had gotten straight D's my first semester at gw, and I. I come home for winter break, and I'll never forget, my cousin Kristen picked me up from D.C. and she drove me back to New York. And before she dropped me off at home, I made her stop at my drug dealer's house in the city before I went back to my apartment. And you, when you're in that mode, like, you don't think that, oh, this is like a problem.

Host (16:43)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (16:43)

And then you kind of look back on your life and you're like, that's kind of crazy that you. Your first stop, you're making your Cousin, who's like 15 years older than me, telling her, oh, I need to stop my friend's house to pick up some books. But I'm stopping at my drug dealer. So I come home that break, and I'm just. They called me the bar star. In college, I was the bar star. And I was just eating Xanax, pretty much all day drinking, going out. And I felt this. This, like, this need to kind of be good time Charlie, as my mom used to call me. And like, this. This want for people to really like me. And I felt that people liked me the most when I was going out and I was providing access to, like, going to nightclubs. Like, oh, I'm gonna have a table here, let's get a table there. I know this guy. I know that guy. Always having drugs on me, always sharing my drugs with everybody. And, you know, I. I felt comfortable in that. I felt more comfortable in that than when I wasn't under the influence of something. And I remember that at the end of that winter break, my mom and dad sat me down and they were kind of like, we don't know what's going on, but something's not right. And my mom is like, I want to see your grades from the semester. And I'm like, I don't have them yet. And she's like, okay, well, when you get them, I want to see them. And I'm like, okay, no problem. So my first, like, week back in January, I get my grades and they're all Ds, and I fucking Photoshop all my grades to the best of my ability. And I, like, I didn't give myself straight A's, that's for sure. I gave myself, like, B's and C's. And my mom was like, kind of like, okay, like, room for improvement, but, like, not as bad as disasters as I thought. And then two weeks later, she gets a letter from GW in the mail that I'm on academic probation with a copy of my real report card.

Host (18:38)

And did she lose her mind?

Louis Ruggiero (18:42)

You know what's funny is she like, her and my dad lost my mind, but they lost their mind. But they also were like, we knew it, right? Like, you can't fool us. Like, we know something's going on. Are you doing drugs? I'm like, no, I'm not doing drugs. I was just pledging, and now I'm not pledging anymore. And so, like, it's going to be fine and blah, blah, blah. They're like, kind of okay, whatever. My mom said to me, she's like, if you don't pull your grades up, I'm not. I'm not spending $70,000 a year for you to. To off. So my first month back, second semester, I wind up having, like, a mental episode on a bunch of Xanax. And I get 5150'd and I get put into this psychiatric hold in Washington D.C. like, I don't really remember. All I remember is that like my ex girlfriend from high school was really concerned about me because I like called her and was like telling her that like, I'm super depressed and like I don't know where I am and like I'm asleep on this park bench. And she called my mom at 3 o' clock in the morning. My mom basically like freaked out and panicked. And then next thing I know I was 5150. And to give you a better understanding of dodging the consequences, my mom at the time, her co anchor was the police commissioner's son, the police commissioner of New York's son. And when you get 5150, do you have to do mandatory 72 hour hold under psychiatric evaluation? And she basically called the police commissioner at the time and was like, we got to get him out of here. And like, I'm out of there in 16 hours and I get brought back to New York. And that was where I kind of was like, yeah, I've been doing Xanax. I'm addicted to Xanax. Like I need help, blah, blah, blah. And I get put into my first treatment center, which was a intensive outpatient called Hazelden in lower Manhattan. I wound up going to this outpatient. It was five days a week. It was like four or five hours a day. And they're talking about this AA and God and all this. And I'm like, listen, not one of you guys, right? Yeah, I just had a little issue with Xanax. I'm gonna go back to school, I'm gonna drink, I'm gonna smoke pod. I'm not going to do Xanax. I know I can't do Xanax anymore. And essentially I stay home for a year.

Host (21:01)

And so you didn't go back to school?

Louis Ruggiero (21:04)

I didn't go back to school until my second semester of sophomore year.

Devora (21:07)

How long did they put you on

Host (21:08)

probation for academic probation?

Louis Ruggiero (21:10)

They put me on academic probation for basically until I came back. And they were like, you have to get above a 2.2 GPA to be taken off Academic Nation.

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Louis Ruggiero (22:20)

So I take that second semester of freshman year off, and then the beginning, the first semester of sophomore year. I'm taking classes at this school in Manhattan, and I wind up doing really, really well because I'm living at home, my parents. I'm not drinking, I'm not drugging, and I really want to get back to GW with my friends. And so I go back second semester of. Of sophomore year, and for the most part, things are going well. And, like, my mom is like, listen, we, like, we know you're gonna drink and do, you know, and smoke pot. Like, we're gonna kind of turn a blind eye towards that, but you have to see this therapist once a week, and you have to pee in a cup once a week. We want to make sure you're not doing any hard drugs. And I was kind of like, all right, like, if you're cool, me smoking pot and drinking, then, like, fine. And, you know, a month into that, I'm, like, figuring out the days of the week that I'm seeing this guy, and when I can sniff coke and pee clean because it's out of my system, and I'm, like, gaming the system, and I'm looking up fake dicks on Amazon to try and buy what's called the Wizinator. And, like, the insanity has begun. And, you know, I said in the beginning, it's like, you don't see those things when you're in it. And then you take a step back when you're finally out of it, and you're like, wow, like, this has been going on for a really long time. And my second semester, I'm back. I get decent grades. I wound up getting into this massive bar fight. I get knocked out, my face stomped on, and my parents have to come down and pick me up in the hospital. My face is all up. Like, it was. It was really bad, really bad bar fight. And my mom was like, I. I don't want to send you back. And I'm like, listen, I got into a bar fight. What do I'm going to do? My grades are decent. Like, I want to go back, so they let me go back. After this bar fight, I get put on. I get given a bunch of Percocet, and I start taking the Percocet, and I start liking the Percocet. And now my mind is like, I know I can't do Xanax, but I really like this Percocet. And I really like the way this Percocet makes me feel. And now I'm eating a bunch of perks and snorting Percocets. And now I'm trying oxycontin, which I had never heard about before then. And that summer, going up into freshman or first semester of junior year, I get introduced to Roxycon, which are those little blue M30s, 30mg Roxycon. And that made Xanax look like grade school compared to the way I felt on these things. And I'm off to the races with roxycon. And now I'm like, every weekend. Where can I get Roxies? Who wants to do Roxies with me? And I had, like, this group of friends that, like, we all really with drugs, and we're all from New York City. We come from privileged families. We had access to money and things to acquire whatever we wanted. And that played into my addiction for a long time. So I go back freshman or first semester, junior year, and this is also the time I get introduced to a bookie, Sports bookie. Like, wow, love watching sports. I can bet on the Knicks. And I can win money, and I can. This is amazing. This is amazing. I'm just gonna sniff oxies and bet on sports all day. This is great. But. So September 15th of 2015 was my first semester of junior year, and I lost my best friend at the time to an accidental overdose. And, you know, this was a kid who was a great human being, like, me, Grew up privileged, thought that rules and consequences don't apply to us. And, you know, when we used to go out, we used to, let's do coke. Let's do Xanax, let's do oxy, let's drink, let's do this, let's do that. And unfortunately, he did not wake up one morning. And I'll never forget that morning, and basically wake up to a bunch of texts being like, we heard Willie went to the hospital. You were with him last night. Do you know what happened? And I'm like, no, I. I came home. I was home. Last time I saw him was here or wherever it was. And I'm like, I'll call his mom. And I remember calling his mom. And I'm like, hey, like, Rose, we're looking for Will. Is. Is everything okay? And she's hysterically crying. She's like, willie's dead. And, you know, that was like. I remember just, like, not feeling, like I just. You're just, like, numb, you know? Like, you don't. You're like, in a trance. You're. What the just happened. This can't be real. And you're kind of just trying to piece together things at this time. And, you know, for me, I was. I was 20 years old. I haven't touched tragedy in my life. I come from a very protected, privileged life. Like, that doesn't happen. That doesn't happen to people like us. And I knew. I knew that it was from an OxyContin overdose. I knew because I knew that's the drugs that we were doing that night. And it wasn't. It wasn't. It was like a. It was like a moment in time where you're at this crossroads where I even said to myself, like, I can go left or I can go right, and if I go left, I'm next. If I go right, I can change my life. And I just was not emotionally equipped to handle what had happened. And we had all gone back to New York. I'd. All of us had gone back to New York for the week where his funeral was and. And whatnot. And that entire week, I'm snorting more oxycontin than I ever had. And, like, I'm dedicating my lines to the death of my friend. And I remember just being like, I'm. I am. And that was in September of 2015. So from September of 2015 until March of 2016, I'm on this run. I'm on this run with drugs. I'm on this run emotionally, I'm on this run. I'm running from everything. And, you know, in my household, the word feelings like, that doesn't really exist. You know, like old school Italian households. My mom said in the family therapy session one day, where I'm from, we don't talk about our feelings, and we definitely don't talk about our feelings with strangers. And that's kind of the way it was in my house. Like, oh, life's tough. Like, too bad. Keep kicking the can down the road. You got to keep going. And so for the. The next, you know, Six, seven months, I'm on this run and I'm basically just trying to stay out of this thought process, Thought process of that should have been me. He deserved another chance. I don't deserve another chance. And I had already been at this point, like, struggling with addiction, even though I didn't think I was an addict for, you know, a year and a half at this point. And in March of 2016, I. I'm eating Xanax again at this point, I'm snorting oxys. I'm whatever I can to not think or feel I'm doing. And I go out to a club in the city on spring break, March 2016, and I'm on a bunch of, bunch of Xanax, and I, I steal a purse from a nightclub called Marquee for no reason, just on a bunch of Xanax and walk out of the club. Cops ask me whose purse that is. They say, oh, it's my girlfriends. I don't know. And they take the bag, they say, they take the license out of the bag. They say, what's your girlfriend's name? I'm like, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, yeah, no, like, let me see some id. Hand them a fake id and a bag of coke falls out of my wallet. Get arrested, I'm blasted all over. The New York Post, Daily Mail, Daily News, every major New York publication is like, rosanna Scotto, son arrested for stealing a purse, possession of fake id, cocaine, blah, blah, blah. And I get arrested. I go to central bookings, they write me up, they put me in the holding cell, they do the whole shebang with me. And that was like the real first time in my life where, like, there was nothing that my mom could possibly have done to protect me from the consequences. And it was, you know, prison is really the second most severe consequence there is for somebody like me. And the first one is, is death. So I'm facing three felonies. And basically what winds up happening is like, you have to stay sober for a year, complete this drug man court, court mandated drug program, stay sober for a year, and they'll drop all of the charges. And my mom's like, you're not going back to school. I'm like, let me go back and finish the semester. There's two months left. So I go back to D.C. to finish out the semester. And like, I'm embarrassed. Like, all my friends know everyone at school. School knows all my friends. Parents at the time were kind of like, we don't want you hanging out with him anymore. So like all my friends in college at this time had kind of like really distanced themselves for me, which at the time I felt was very confusing. And I was angry. I was like, you, like, I'm going through this and you're all abandoning me. Like, okay, you, you know. And about a month back after spring break, after I've been arrested, the FBI comes knocking on my door to investigate the death of my best friend. And this had happened in D.C. and my best friend's father was a pretty big attorney and his mom was someone high up in New York. So there was an investigation and they basically there was me and two other individuals that they were. They were like, you guys always had the drugs, you guys always supplied the drugs. If you don't cooperate with us and tell us what you know, where you get them, this, that and the other thing, like we're going to charge you with all these felony distribution council. And in District of Columbia, it's a felony. These are all federal court things. It's not like state mandated or district whatever. So now I'm on probation for a year for stealing the purse. And now I'm in the middle of an FBI investigation and my parents are a wreck, but they're like, you got to keep, you keep our son strong support and we're going to get through this and blah, blah, blah. And I come home that summer and I am, that entire summer I'm in a court mandated drug program in Manhattan. It was for adolescents. It was a really good program. And that was kind of like where they had been forcing me. You have to go to aa. Like part of this program is you come here for five hours a day, but you have to go to aa. And so I would go to these AA meetings very rarely. I'd show up late, I'd leave early. And I'll never forget, I went to my first AA meeting and I came home and my dad was like, so what'd you think? And I was like, eh. I was like, dad, I was like this lady at the end said, you know, if you want what we have, you'll go to any lengths to get it. And I said to my dad, I said, I don't want anything these people have. I'm never going back. My dad was just like, I just wasn't ready. Yeah, you know, like I wasn't ready to hear about a higher power. I wasn't ready to hear about change, my way of thinking or powerless surrender, like all those things that like my ego was too inflated to kind of comprehend or try to Comprehend.

Host (34:12)

I think it's very rare too, when you are younger, even I feel like mid to low 20s to really have interest in that stuff. I don't think that you're at a point where you know who you are. I don't think you really care to figure out who you are. I think what we care about is. I mean, even for me, like, when I look back, it was like, fun, carefree. It's like you don't want to think about any of the other stuff.

Louis Ruggiero (34:38)

Yeah. And it's like, really. It's also really difficult to kind of accept that you may be different than your fellows. None of my friends had this problem. All my friends are ripping the bong, getting straight A's, partying, having a great time. And I'm like, why can't I do that? Why, when I take something, am I on a seven day bender? And I can't stop, even though I want to. So I'm home now. And my mom had this friend at the time. He ran like the same, like, social circle as my mom. These other people. He was this famous jeweler. He did jewelry for Oprah Winfrey and Melania Trump. And calls my mom one day and he's like, you're never gonna believe this. This kid showed up on my doorstep and he said if I ever ran into trouble in New York, to call, you know, My mom gave me this number and it's your number. And long story short, Rosanna, this is my, my long lost son. We took a DNA test. I want him to meet lj. My family calls me lj. And so my mom's like, jeffrey says he has this long lost son. Jeffrey wants you to meet him. And I'm like. I'm like, all right, this is weird. But like, sure, whatever. What do I care? So I meet this kid and he's like, handsome, in good shape. He's got fucking tattoos all over. And like, at that time, like, I had no tattoos. So I was like, wow, this guy is the man. Like, and long story short, me and him become like, best friends. Like this off the rip. And that was in June. And by August, he, him and I are going out to clubs. And like, I'm not drinking yet because I'm still on this probation thing. But I'm like, getting closer to the idea of, like, they're weaning me down. I'm not going five days a week. I'm only going four days a week. And then it'll be three days a week. And I'll only get drug tested on Wednesday. So if I drink Friday, if I could. If I could drink and do blow Friday nights, then, like, by Wednesday, like, my pee is clean. So, like, now the insanity is starting to go, and I'm like, getting closer and closer. And me and this kid are hanging out every day, every single day. And, you know, Labor Day weekend and I. This is like this whole period of time, my life is so chaotic and crazy and traumatic that, like, I have all these memories time stamped. So labor day weekend of 2016, which is. It's like, you know, first weekend in September. I'm out in the Hamptons, and the kid's name is Jimmy. And he. We go out to Gurney's. We're in Montauk. We're partying. We got girls. I'm. Now I'm drinking because I'm like, okay, this, you know, I'll figure out a way. And he winds up, like, getting barred out and getting into a fight at Gurney's and Montauk. And I'm like, dude, like, what the is going on? You're getting crazy. I don't really want to do this. Like, I'm on probation.

Host (37:40)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (37:40)

So I'm like, I. I don't think we should hang out anymore. I didn't say that to him directly. Like, that. I'm like, yo, like, I. I gotta focus. I gotta work, and I'm going back to school. And not gw, but school in the city. Like, ah, we're. I'm going to keep my distance from him a little bit. And we had seen each other from like August till November. We had seen each other maybe like five, ten times. Nothing crazy compared to like what it used to be, which was daily. And November of 2016, never forget D. It was like November 14th or 15th of 2016. He. He text me at. At like 5am My probation had ended about a month or two beforehand. And at this point, I was now back to snorting Roxy Cotton. And I was doing around 900 milligrams of OxyContin a day. And I'm stealing from my parents, pawning my mom's jewelry to Fun Funnel this habit. Fun this habit. And November of 2016, he texts me at like 5 o' clock in the morning. He's like, hey, are you up? This is the only Saturday night in my drug addiction days where at 5 o' clock in the morning, I was asleep. The only one I'll never forget. It was a Conor McGregor fight on. I watched this Conor McGregor fight. I bet on the Conor McGregor fight. And I was like, I'm so happy I won. I celebrated. I fudgeing. Snorted a bunch of oxies and nodded out, went to sleep. And I wake up the next day, Sunday, at like 2 o' clock in the afternoon. He. I was like, yo, sorry, bro, I was asleep. What's up? He's like, yo, I really need to talk to you. And I was like, okay. Like, pull up. What's up? He's like, I'll call you later. Never calls me. Never hear anything from him. So I'm like, all right, whatever. Monday morning, I wake up, I go to the gym. I'm at the gym, which is conveniently like a block and a block and a half away. And he calls me. He's like, yo, where are you? I'm like, I'm at Equinox across the street. It's like, all right, I'm coming to talk to you. So he comes. I'm working out. He comes and pulls me off the workout floor and brings me up to the locker room. And he's like, yo. He's like, I did something really bad. I'm like, what's up? He's like, you know the. Larry and these. These girls came over and they brought this kid with them. We had an after party from the club we went to, and Larry and this kid got into a fight. And Larry wound up knocking him out. And he's like, I panicked. I didn't, you know, want this kid dying on my floor. So I slit his throat and I stabbed him. And I was like. I looked him, I was like, yeah. I was like, all right. I was like, okay. And he was like, don't worry about it. He's like, I wrapped his body up in a comforter. We threw him out my window. Larry got the car, we drove his body to Jersey and we buried and burned the body. And I'm like. I'm looking at him like, Jimmy. I'm like, that's what I said to him. I said, you're a good little Jew boy from Manhattan. You're not in Goodfellas. He grabs me and she's like, lj, I'm serious. I'm like. I'm like, yeah, all right, dude, whatever. He's like, don't worry about it. Cleaned up the whole apartment. He's like, look, the detectives call him. Call me. He's like, they got nothing on me. Like, all right, dude, whatever you say. I shower. I'm like, yo, I gotta go. I'm going to the Nick game. I shower, I go to the Nick game with one of my Best friends. And I tell him like, yo, Jimmy just told me this and said he did this, this, and this and that. My friend literally looks at me, he's like, bro, that kid's a pathological liar. He'll literally say anything for attention. I'm like, I know, it's crazy. I don't think anything of it. I swear. I literally, like, I left the Nick game.

Host (41:23)

That's like a movie.

Louis Ruggiero (41:24)

And, like, you know, I like, I'm like up in my own mind at that time. Like, I'm doing a bunch of oxies. I'm strung out. I'm like, I'm like, in my own world.

Host (41:33)

Another day.

Louis Ruggiero (41:34)

Yeah. Like, I'm in my own world. I'm just trying to, like, survive.

Host (41:37)

Yeah. Time for your stories.

Louis Ruggiero (41:40)

So I go, I go home that night and I'm like, I'm getting up, obviously, and then I. I go to sleep and I wake up the next day. My mom had actually called my therapist and was like, he's on drugs again. I don't know what he's doing, but he's on drugs again. So I, I had my therapy that day and I go to my therapist and she's like, I got it. Like, you know, your mom called, blah, blah. And I'm like, you. I, like, leave. And I'm walking up First Avenue and I'm walking back up to the gym. And like, the gym for me at that time was like a safe place because I had my own locker. And, like, I'd hide my drugs in there so my parents couldn't find it. Like, it was like my little, like, private sanctuary in a weird way. So I'm walking up to the gym and I'm like, you know what? I'm about to walk by Jimmy's block.

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Louis Ruggiero (42:27)

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Louis Ruggiero (42:30)

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Louis Ruggiero (42:41)

And breathe.

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Host (42:53)

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Louis Ruggiero (43:55)

If this kid's not lying, there's got to be something popping off in front of his house. So I get to 59th and 1st. I look right down the block. All I see is NYPD crime unit trucks, dogs, the dudes in the hazmat suits, and they're wheeling out. They're wheeling out. He had this really flamboyant collection of Louis Vuitton luggage that, like, only this. And his father, which we'll get into shortly. His father had. So I see them wheeling out this luggage, and I'm like. I'm like, oh. I'm like, oh, he did it. And, like, I remember just, like, saying, like, a hundred times. Now I have a mental breakdown. Now I call my mom. You're not gonna believe this. Jimmy murdered someone. He confessed the murder to me. He texted me about it, and now there's NYPD crime in your trucks. My mom's like, shut the up. Get off the phone and get home right now. So now I'm flying home. Get home, my mom and dad are there and tell them everything. And I'll never forget this. It was like 5:56pm and the 6:00 clock news. Come on. 6:00 clock news comes on, and it's a missing kid from Connecticut. And the father of the missing kid was on the news saying, if you know anything about where my son was Please help us. He was last seen here, here and there. And Jimmy told me that it was a kid from Connecticut. I said to my mom, like, looking at Mike, they don't know where the body is. I know where the body is or I don't know where the body is. I know that he drove it to Jersey. I didn't know where in Jersey it was.

Devora (45:38)

Hi guys. You can subscribe now to we're all insane plus for only 5.99amonth, and it includes ad free listening, bonus episodes of We're All Insane, guided meditations, exclusive access to my brand new show, We're All Healing, and first access to new merch drops and discounts on merch to get instant access to We're All Insane.

Host (45:59)

Plus you can subscribe inside of Apple, Spotify and YouTube or you can go to We're All Insane dot com.

Devora (46:08)

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Louis Ruggiero (47:40)

so my dad's partner is a criminal defense attorney. His name is Peter Frankel. He's family. He basically is my uncle. I call him Mr. Minter because when we were kids, we play Candyland, he'd always land on the Mint guy so much, we call him Mr. Minter. So we call him and he's like, listen, just stay quiet right now. Don't say anything to anybody and stay home. And basically now I'm like, having this, like, mental breakdown for the next two days because they can't find the body. And, like, I kind of know where this could be. And I'm like, super strung out. Like, now I'm super strung out. I'm super stressed. I, I, I'm in my own prison because I can't tell anybody. And my friend who I went to the Nick game with, me and him are now texting. He's like, holy, what the. And I'm like, yeah, I know. So two days later, Larry, I guess, had a mental breakdown and came in and confessed to the police where the body was and what had happened. And Larry blamed Jimmy and said Jimmy stabbed him. And Jimmy said, no, Larry stabbed him. And that kind of started this whole thing. And that was November of 2016. A week after Thanksgiving, I get shipped off to my first residential inpatient rehab in Arizona. I go to Sierra Tucson. It was December 7, 2016. I stayed there for about 45 days. And on that plane ride over there, I'm like, okay, this is it. I'm an addiction. I'm done with this life. I give up.

Host (49:18)

And how old were you?

Louis Ruggiero (49:19)

21. Okay, 21. Turning 22 or 22? 20. Turning 23. I'm 31. I was 2016. So I do 45 days there. And then the therapist there was like, he's not going back to New York. He's going to go to sober living in Los Angeles. And at the time, my mom was like, I was like, fuck that. I'm not going to Cali. Cali. I'm one of my surfer dude. I don't got blonde hair. Like, I'm not, I'm not a Cali guy. I gotta come back to New York. I gotta get to work. You know, I gotta have this whole idea of what I should be doing. And my mom was like, you have $20 to your name. You're gonna go wherever the I tell you to go, you're going to sober living, get out to la. And two days into my sober living, I get subpoenaed by the FBI for the murder. And I basically fly back to New York a week later. And I meet with the, the FBI with my lawyer, Peter Frankel, Mr. Minter, who's like my real life guardian angel. And they're like, look like they have text messages with me and Jimmy for like years of us like talking about buying drugs, selling drugs, doing drugs. We had a plan to rob his drug dealer at one point. So they have all these things against me. They're like, yo, if we're gonna charge you with all this, you're gonna go to prison for a really long time. What did he tell you? And you know, I told them what had been told to me. And I felt at the time that I was sober, was, you know, 60 days sober. I was really trying to clean up my life. And I was like, I just want this behind me. I don't want to be in trouble. I had, I wasn't there. I had nothing to do with it. And I tell them everything he told me. And long story short, the feds got involved because the, the district attorney in Manhattan didn't have enough evidence. They couldn't pinpoint who did the actual murder. So they couldn't figure out who to charge with the murder until the evidence came through and DNA and blah, blah. And then my confession, they charged both Jimmy and, and Larry with second degree murder, concealment of a human corpse and tampering with evidence. So the next day I meet with the Manhattan district attorney and they're like, yeah, this is, you know, we don't think this is going to go to trial. We think he's, he, you know, he's going to take a plea deal, but it could go to trial and if it goes to trial, you need to testify against him. I'm not testifying against him, that I'm not doing it. And long story short, what fucking choice did I have?

Host (51:59)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (51:59)

At that point. So I go back to L. A and for the next about 18 months I'm flying back and forth from L. A to New York. I would say every four to six meet, four to six weeks to meet with the district attorney to prepare for this trial. And this whole time they're like, you know, they're preparing me for what the questions they're going to ask me as they're building their case. And then they're also preparing me for, to be cross examined by his attorney who's going to try and destroy me and discredit me. And like, mind you, Jimmy was my best friend for, you know, two and a half years. He knew about everything. He knew about my friend dying in college. He knew that I would steal my parent money from my parents to do drugs and to gamble. He knew all of my dirt. And, you know, this whole time I'm prank. Please, please, just take the plea deal. Take the plea deal. Mind you, he doesn't know that I'm involved in this. So he's calling me from Manhattan Correctional Facility. I'm obviously not picking up, but he's leaving me voicemails. Yo, I'm, I'm going to beat this case. I'm coming home, bro. Like, he's like, call me, blah, blah. And I'm like, yo, this fucking kid's crazy. And he has no idea. So now in la, I'm doing this back and forth shit. I got a new job, I'm doing great at this job. I'm making money. And the day comes where the trial happens and I have to testify.

Devora (53:36)

And he still had no idea you

Host (53:37)

were going to be there?

Louis Ruggiero (53:38)

He knew. He knew about two weeks before the trial. Okay, because there's some law that like the, they don't have to disclose my actual name up until a certain point, okay. To protect the witness or whatever. So he knows. And obviously I come in and I testify and I walk into the courtroom and he's sitting right there and I walk by him and he's staring at me and shaking his head. And I got to sit right here with the prosecutor right there and Jimmy right there just staring at me. And I have to testify about our relationship, how our relationship started and how it evolved and the bad things that we did together and that. You know, the prosecutor would say, well, you were also doing drugs. Where were you getting money from? Drugs? And I had to say I would steal from my parents. Like, I had to basically tell on myself first to make myself credible to the jurors so that they would believe my testimony and basically air out all of my dirty laundry. And then in the front row of the, the people in the room was every major news publication because this was like front page news now for the last, you know, year and a half. And so now they're having a field day. Rosanna Scotto, son Stealing from this, dealing from that, blah, blah, blah. Oxycontin addiction, 1200 a day, pill addiction, pawning jewelry, this and that, bookies destroying me. And I testify and then I get cross examined by his defense team. They Annihilate me. And he gets convicted. He got convicted of second degree murder, concealment of a human corpse, and tampering with evidence. Got sentenced to 28 years to life. His friend Larry took a plea deal, manslaughter. He's doing 23 years. And there was another kid that was there, and he got us six months for tampering with evidence. And you know, that was like a really, really tough time for me because at this point in time, I was like a year and change sober and I had been really trying to rebuild my life and I had this new job and I started my own company. It was like a ticket brokering company and specializing in like high, high end experiences, like front row seats to Justin Bieber with a private meet and greetings and stuff that like only billionaires and millionaires could buy. And it was, it was really great. It was really great. And then all of a sudden, you know, I'm doing business with these people and they're like googling me and they're seeing now all these articles about a murder trial and like the Chanel bag stuff and like all this so really traumatizing, really stressful and confusing time in my life. Because you're like newly sober and you're trying to embrace this way of life and you think you did the right thing. And then you have these other good people who are like, you're a snitch. Like my snitch. I wasn't even there. It wasn't like I was there. And then I rolled on him. I wasn't even there. He called me and confessed this whole thing to me and crazy part of the whole story is that it actually. The father and son, Father and son thing, they were actually gay lovers.

Host (56:55)

The father and son.

Louis Ruggiero (56:56)

Yeah.

Host (56:56)

Together.

Louis Ruggiero (56:57)

Yeah. They weren't there wasn't his long lost son. It was actually they met at like a sex party and he really liked Jimmy and was like, I don't want you struggling, like, move in with me. Like, I'm gonna get you a job, I'm gonna help you out in life and like all these things. And it was like a, like a boy toy situation. Jeez. I never saw anything, by the way.

Host (57:21)

Okay.

Louis Ruggiero (57:22)

Yeah, like, people ask all the time, like, did you ever see any like, funny? I was like, no. I was like. I hung out with them both a lot and we did a lot of drugs together and we partied together, but I never right saw any, like. Yeah, you know, any of that stuff. So that all came out in the wash too. Yeah. So this, this Trial ends, I'm out in la, and this pressure, I think, finally was, like, off me. And I had been going to aaa, but, like, my life had gotten really good. That, like, I kind of was just like, all right, cool. Like, I don't need to, like, keep going. I don't need to go to a. Five days a week. Yeah, I need to do this. Making money. I'm compulsively gambling. Degenerate gambling. I'd go to Vegas twice a month. I'd lose 50, 100, $200,000 a weekend. Some my money, some not my money. But the way my business worked was there was constantly money coming in for new orders. And so I was just constantly recycling people's money to fix orders or to fill orders and to gamble. But I was never in the green. I was constantly living in this perpetual state of, like, being in a jam financially. And this is an important part because this is kind of where living in that stress all the time of money. Like, I'd have a couple hundred grand coming into my bank account every month, and, like, I somehow, some way could not afford 3, 500amonth in rent on the 1st. And, like, I'd look at my bank statement, I'd be like, 600 grand came in this month. How do I not have three, five hundred dollars?

Host (58:56)

So you. Because you were just gambling at all?

Louis Ruggiero (58:58)

Compulsive. Compulsively gambling. I had a bookie in LA. I was losing 20, 30,000 a week with him. I'd go to Vegas, I'd lose anywhere from 50 to 200k in a weekend. Flying back and forth. They're comping me this or comping me that, and, like, I think it's all fine and dandy. And I'm like, I'm just going to have that one big weekend where I win back all my money and then I'm done. And I chased that idea, right, for 10 years. Listen, in those 10 years, like, yeah, sure, like, there were a couple of big wins, but as a compulsive gambler, it's never enough.

Host (59:33)

No, no.

Louis Ruggiero (59:34)

Like, I.

Host (59:35)

Right, because then you have more and you're like, let's do a little more.

Louis Ruggiero (59:37)

I won 300 grand in literally 72 hours. And then I lost all of that plus another 200 in the two days following it, right? Never enough. And I never stopped gambling until my. I had no money. There was never. I'll stop here, I'll stop there. It was like, I could not stop until my account was at zero or most of the time, negative. And so I'm out in LA and basically we can fast forward till Covid and my business collapse, obviously. Concerts, events, it's all done. And I basically owe all these people refunds because nothing's happening. Nothing's happening. I have no money, I owe mid six figures in refunds and I'm compulsively gambling. So I'm basically now robbing Peter to pay Paul. Barring, scheming, conning, you name it, just to kind of like figure my out. And I wind up relapsing off of, wind up, relapse, relapsing off of night, doing a shot of 1942, like three months into Covid, not planned, just at my friend's house in LA, everyone's doing a shot of 42 and I'm like, haven't had a drink in like, you know, almost two years. And I'm like, that looks good. And like I'm in so much pain because I have no money and like I'm living in fear. And next thing you know, I do a shot and two hours later I'm alone in my bathroom snorting coke tweaked out of my mind. How the did I get here again? And I remember sitting in that bathroom just being like, I swore this would never happen again. And yet here I am again, alone. No idea how this is going to end. But all I know is that it's actually picked up worse than where I left off two years ago. I was engaged at the time, not to my current fiance and soon to be wife, but I was engaged to this other girl. And I basically lived a double life for the next year. Really I was just saying I was somewhere saying I was at point A, I was really at point B. And by point B, it was either in a motel room doing cocaine and oxycontin by myself, or oftentimes I would sit in my car and I would drive two blocks down from where we lived and I would snort cocaine by myself and play online blackjack with the, the live dealers that were like in Eastern Ukraine or wherever the they are and gamble every single penny that I had. Then I had come home at like 5, 6 o' clock in the morning. She'd be like, where the, where are you? And I was like, oh, I was doing this deal and what? It's Covid? Yeah, 5. What deal? So that all came crumbling down, and that came crumbling down towards the end of 2020. And I met my current fiance shortly thereafter and man, she's a trooper. Put her through also hell. Like met her Halloween weekend of because

Devora (62:52)

when you met her, you still weren't sober.

Louis Ruggiero (62:54)

No. And she had no idea.

Host (62:55)

Okay.

Louis Ruggiero (62:56)

My ex fiance knew about my past, knew I had to be sober, supported my sobriety. This new girl I met and we met on a trip to Vegas, Halloween weekend, 2020. And we wound up getting married in Vegas 24 hours later.

Host (63:08)

Oh my gosh.

Louis Ruggiero (63:09)

And I'm like, I'm like, up. I'm like drinking, whatever. I'm like, we get married, a fake chapel in Vegas and come back to la. And I'm like, you have a passport? She's like, yeah, of course. What kind of questions? I was like, all right, let's go. We're going to Mexico. We go to Mexico for our honeymoon. My mom calls me in Mexico and she's like, what the fuck is going on? Where are you? I'm coming to get you. I know you're not sober. We'll figure it out. I'm like, I'm at the one and only. I'm having a great time. Come meet me. Like the, the, the delusion has taken off. Taken off. Back in full swing again. Here we go. So, you know, this is, I thought you, you've heard the story. You'd think that there's like maybe like six different rock bottoms in there. And the rock bottoms that I hit from that moment up until almost a year ago or a little over a year ago were 10 times worse when

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Louis Ruggiero (65:09)

And so I bring my soon to be wife's name is Mia. I bring Mia home to meet my family for Christmas that year and we're on the plane back to New York. I'm like, listen, like, my parents don't know I drink. They think I'M sober. Don't worry about it. It's all good. And she's like, look at me. She's like, you're 27 years old. What do you mean? Your parents don't know you drink? It's a long story. Don't worry about it. So everything. We have a fine Christmas. Whatever. It's a Covid Christmas. It was a very strange time. And we go back to LA after the New year, and I try this new drug called Tusi. I don't know if you've ever heard of this. It's like. It's the pink. They call it the pink cocaine. It's the. That Diddy loved.

Devora (65:50)

Okay?

Louis Ruggiero (65:51)

It's ketamine, mdma, ecstasy, Molly, Xanax.

Host (65:56)

Oh, so I die on that.

Louis Ruggiero (65:58)

It's like, everything, like, all mixed together. There's very euphoric high. And, like, I try it for the first time, and, like, I'm like, wow, this is amazing. I don't need to do coke. I don't need to do oxys. I'm just Mr. 2C man now. So I'm doing 2C every day. And, like, it was just. It was disaster. So from January up until like, mid to late February of 2021, I'm, like, sniffing two. See, I have, like, a mental breakdown. I'm like, I need to go back to rehab. I go to rehab in. In Utah, a place called Cirque Lodge. I'm there four days, and I. I call me. I'm like, get me the out of here. Like, I need to come home. I can't be here. This is not the right place. My bed is, like. Behind the wall of my bed is, like, where the pipes are for the toilet. So, like, when people flush the toilet in the middle of the night, my whole bed vibrates. I hear the water, and she's like, listen. Like, I don't think it's a good idea. Like, you need to stay there for the 30 days. And I'm like, you're in my house right now. Book me a flight home. And she's like, all right. Like, I'll book you a flight home. She books me a flight home. I come back to la, and I'm like, I'm gonna be sober. I'm gonna be sober. A week later, I decide it was a really good idea that I go to Colombia. And I tell Mia. I'm like, babe, I gotta go to Colombia. Are you talking about. I'm like, no. Like, my friend, I'm not gonna say his name. Like, he's from Colombia. And like, there's an opportunity there for me. She's like, what opportunity are you? Like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, listen, I'm just going for a week. The opportunity that was there for me was that that's where they cook 2C and make 2C. And I was going to buy a lot of tusi and do some things and make some money. And. Yeah, I don't want to incriminate myself on this. So I go to Colombia for what was supposed to be a week. I wind up staying for 3 months in a FL. Full blown drug psychosis.

Devora (67:59)

Oh, my gosh.

Louis Ruggiero (68:00)

Cuz I get out there and like in California, 2C is 200 a gram. You get to Colombia, it's $20 a gram. And it's like, better than ever. So, like, now I'm in Colombia and I'm like, this is amazing. I get into this drug psychosis. I call my mom and dad. I'm like, you never loved me. Don't call me ever again. Block their numbers.

Host (68:21)

Mia.

Louis Ruggiero (68:22)

I'm still talking to Mia.

Host (68:23)

Okay. Is she like.

Louis Ruggiero (68:25)

She's like freaking out.

Host (68:26)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (68:27)

Like, she's like, you said you're gonna be sober. I know you're not sober. And I'm like, I am sober. And she's like crying on FaceTime. She's like, there's pink coming out of your nose. Like, you're not sober. I'm not an idiot. And you know, Mia at the time was 23 years old. She was a baby. And like, this girl, literally, I could walk on water with her at this time. I still kind of do, but in a different way. And to make a long story short, my mom basically had at a point, begged her to come out to Colombia and retrieve you. Retrieve me? Mia's like, you know, your son, he doesn't listen to anybody. Long story short, Mia came out and spent a month with me out there until, well, we woke up one day and we were in Bogota. We were in. I was in Medellin and Cartagena for most of the time. And Cartana is like, beautiful. You're on the beach. Like, then all of a sudden, I wake up one day and I'm in Bogota and I like, have this, like, panic attack. I'm like, I've been here three months. What the am I doing here? And like, my friend who's half Colombian, who's took me there, like, he had left like six weeks before that. He's like, dude, I have like, I'm going home. I'm like, okay. Bye. I'm never leaving. And I come back from Colombia and we're throwing these crazy house parties at my house in La Covid. Super spreaders, whatever the you want to call them. I get evicted from my house. Like I had like 14 LAPD violations and just disaster. I basically get run out of LA Run. And I go down to Tampa where my cousin Mike lives, and I, I, I try to get sober, my cousin Mike, who's sober at the time, and stay there six months. Not for me, not for me, because I'm not seeking the solution. It's not for me because people aren't letting me do what I want to do. And I come back to New York and I'm off to the races again. And I'm drinking, I'm drugging, I'm gambling more than I ever have. I'm, you know, in New York, gambling is legal. So you have the FanDuel, you have the DraftKings, you have the Caesar Spiderman sports book. And I basically, from 2020, 2022 up until 2024, I dig myself into about a million dollar hole from compulsive gambling. I'm working this job in the city, this really great restaurant, and it was like, basically it was like my family was like, go work here, climb the ranks, do well, and then you can come and take over the family business. But like, to earn the respect of the employees at our family restaurant, which has been open for 32 years, like, you need to show them that, like, you've worked somewhere else and you've earned your stripes before you come in here and start reliable. Yeah. So I go, I work at this restaurant, I wind up getting promoted to general manager very quickly. And it was like, really great. And I'm like, wow, this is great. Like, the customers love me, the managers love me, the owners love me. Like, this is really great. I'm compulsively gambling, I'm drinking and doing drugs every night of the week and I, I get fired. And that was December of 2022. And I basically go back to LA, right? That's where the only sober people I know are. And In January of 2023, I get sober again. It was the last time I, I drank and I was supposed to go to rehab. I wound up not getting into this treatment center on a scholarship. My parents were like, I'm not paying another penny for a therapist, a doctor, or this or that. Like, figure it out on your own. I'm staying on Mia's couch and we weren't together at this time, but she Was like, yeah, calm. Like, stay with me until you go to treatment and drinking and doing drugs every day. And eventually she's like, look, dude, like, you either get sober and you can stay here as long as you want, or you don't get sober, but you gotta leave. And I remember that was kind of just like that moment where it's like, literally this girl who thinks that, like, I can do no wrong in her eyes, doesn't want me around her anymore. Like, all right, something's got to give. And I get sober. I go to aa, I get a sponsor, a sponsored. It's great. Tells me, if you want to get sober, this is what I require you to do. And if you do it, it's going to be great. If you don't do it, don't call me. And it was like something I really needed at the time of someone just being like, there's no gray here. Yeah, it's black or white. You're either in or you're out. And I. I knew at that time that, like, I was an addict. I was a drug addict and alcoholic. Like, I. I knew. So I was, like, willing to do whatever it took. I also knew that maybe I had a gambling problem, but I didn't know. I didn't think that it was as bad as the drugs and alcohol. Like, I just thought that I had a money problem if I just made more money than I could gamble and I'd be fine. You know, I was like. The delusion was still there, but I was like, I'm willing to put all three of my vices down for the time being to just figure my out. So I didn't gamble the first 10 months of my. My AA sobriety. And I thought that I can figure out the gambling thing in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous as well. And about six. Six months into me being sober, Mia gets pregnant. And I was doing well, like, financially, like, things were getting better. Right. I'm not gambling. I'm not spending my money. And so, like, I kind of, like, got a little, like, cocky and arrogant with that. And I start gambling again when Mia. When Mia's pregnant. And I feel like when I look back on it now, it's like the fear of being a father and the fear of, like, what's to come. I needed something to not feel.

Devora (74:10)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (74:10)

And gambling, for me, it's like, people, the gambling thing is not really understood yet. It was so taboo, right? Like, drinking and drugging hasn't been taboo. It's. When did prohibition end? Does anyone here know 100 years ago, whatever it was, I don't know. But it's been legal for all of these years. Right. Whereas gambling has been this taboo kind of only like mafia.

Host (74:38)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (74:39)

Degenerate losers kind of thing. And so, you know, I, it's really crazy. I. I decided to start gambling again. And the first week I start gambling again, I wound up losing 100 grand a week. And my fiance was, was pregnant and like, yeah, this is. And then, then I spend the next year really chasing that hundred grand loss. Like, I just got to get that 100k back and I'll stop again. And I dug myself into a million dollar hole in that, in that next year in silence. For the people that are listening or watching that don't understand gambling it is. This is coming from someone who's a drug addict, alcoholic, compulsive gambler. This is the most insidious disease of them all. And out of all of my addictions, nothing has ripped my soul and my spirit out of me the way gambling did. I was a dope fiend. If I didn't wake up and snort 300mg of Oxycontin at one point, I was dope sick. I couldn't even function. And for me to sit in sobriety for one whole year with the birth of my child and compulsively gamble every single penny that I had and take other people's money and gamble that and do that is insanity. And the insanity is you wake up every day and you say, this is it. I'm never going to do this again. And you keep doing it. Right? Like, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. And I, when I, when we moved home in, In May of 2024, we moved back from LA to New York, it was so easy to gamble. So easy. You just, boom. I just put in a $5,000 bet. That's literally how long it could take me. And I tell people all the time, if I come in here right now and I'm drunk or I'm high, you would look at me and be like, are you okay? Like, what the are you on? Like, you know what? Maybe I don't think we should do this interview today. Like, I can come in here right now. I could have a million dollars on a football game right now. You'd have no idea. And I sat for a year and lived in a prison that was built by myself. And I took everyone prisoner with me. I wasn't a present father. I wasn't a present Partner. I wasn't a present, son. I literally put on like £80 in a year. Physically, I was falling apart. And I remember I'd be sitting in my parents house and I would be alone and be like one o' clock in the morning and it'd be the best time because it'd be the only time my phone wasn't blowing up with people asking where their money was. And I remember I'd be sitting there thinking, how am I ever going to give this kid a normal life? I can't pay for diapers, how am I going to pay for school? How am I going to pay for a nanny? How am I going to pay for clothes? He wants. He starts playing football, he wants football cleats, how am I going to pay for cleats? And your mind is so that you just keep telling yourself, you'll figure it out, you're gonna figure it out. Tomorrow's gonna be the day. Tomorrow's gonna be the day. And I said it earlier, there was a, a period of time, not this past summer, the summer before, where I had won like 300 grand in a weekend. And that was from like a Thursday until a Sunday. And by Tuesday that 300 grand was gone and I was down another 200. And then you start really thinking about, is this ever going to end? Is this pain ever going to stop? And my father, he grew up in a house where my grandfather was a compulsive gambler. He gambled away the house three times growing up. My dad was a kid. My dad was traumatized by gambling. And so my dad would see me and be like, I know you're gambling. He'd see me watching the team and be like, I know you're gambling. I'd be like, no, I'm not. What are you doing? Talking about you, blah, blah, blah. And I wouldn't say you like, leave me alone. My dad would just say to himself, like, I lived with this for my whole entire life. Like, I know when I see what's going on. And it was a pretty powerless feeling for him that he couldn't help his son because he knew his, the only way this is going to end is if his son wanted it to stop. And November of 2024, I, I was at my point and I owed so many, so many people money. And like, I'm not talking about like credit card companies or banks. I'm talking about like family friends who like really trusted me and like know me and wanted to help me, people I had lied to to get that money. And so I remember just being like, the walls were closing in. I'm tapped out. No one's giving me money anymore. And I remember just being, like, contemplating where I could kill myself. That would be the least traumatic for my family. And I had this all planned out where I was going to do it, and it was going to happen after Thanksgiving because the holidays were over. And that Thanksgiving week of 2024, I remember praying. I'm like, either let me win a bet or give me an out. And the Friday after Thanksgiving, I'm in men's warehouse buying a suit, working at the restaurant. I don't fit into any of my clothes because I'm basically falling apart. This family friend who I took money from called me, and he's like, I know you're not drinking or drugging, but I know you're gambling. And if you don't get honest with me right now, I'm gonna send you to prison. And I'm like, oh, I don't know what you're talking about. He's like, I'm going to give you one chance to get honest. If you don't get honest, I'm not going to help you. And I just hung up the phone. And I remember just, like, this feeling of just being like, this is your out. This is your one and only chance to get honest. And I went outside and I called them back, and I literally was just like, word vomit. Everything came out. Every lie I've been harboring for the last 10, 10 years of my gambling career, every debt, every person I owed money to who was coming after me, and it was just like, the best feeling in the world in this, like, weird way, you know? It was like, finally, like, I'm not living this. Why lie and facade? And, like, you know, addiction really takes you prisoner. Doesn't matter what addiction it is and really takes people prisoner because it. People don't understand that. It's like, even my mom's. Like, she said in the past, like, just stop, G Wiz. If that was that easy, I would have done this 10 years ago.

Host (81:44)

Right?

Louis Ruggiero (81:46)

And.

Host (81:47)

And it's sad, too, because it doesn't matter how much you lose. That doesn't stop the addiction. It's like, what else can I do to either numb it more or get out of it? And then it's like, getting out of it isn't really that. It doesn't end there either.

Louis Ruggiero (81:59)

No. And get honest with this guy. And he's like, all right. He's like, get your mom on the phone. I'm like, no, please My poor mother. Like, he's like, okay, fine, get your sister and get me on the phone. All right, fine. I've gotta settle for something here. And we get my sister and Mia and I tell them everything. And Mia's hysterical. Mia's like angry. Like, how could you do this to me? And how could you just to our son? Like, you have a kid, you swore to me you stopped gambling a year ago. And all these emotions. And then she's also like, really hurt and like, how could you lie to me? And like, I feel so bad for you because you're in so much pain.

Host (82:38)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (82:38)

And then there's also this moment of like, it all makes sense now. Like this last year of like, you not being present, you constantly watching sports, you constantly, like, isolating and putting on all this weight and beating yourself up. Like, it all makes sense. So that weekend, my sister is like, I'm gonna take out a personal loan. I'm gonna pay your 875 grand off to all these people you owe and you'll pay me back. And I was just like, finally, for the first time in 10 years, like, I was just like thinking clearly because the lie is out and I'm not living like that anymore. That I was just like, listen, I gotta go to Gamblers Anonymous. I know people, they're gonna help me, but I have to do what they say, not what we say. And told my parents. And long story short, I went down to Gambler's Anonymous. Tuesday on December 3rd was my first GA meeting and the journey began. I was so beat up when I got in there. But you know, before I get into that, the day before, I hadn't bet that whole entire weekend. And the day before that, Monday, my casino host from Caesars text me, hey, hon, hope you had a great weekend. I saw you didn't deposit any money or make any bets this weekend. Is everything okay? And I said, no, I have no money. Lol. And she said, okay, hon, no worries. Just loaded up a bonus for you and loaded up a five thousand dollar free bet into my account. This lady has no idea that I was just suicidal five days ago. And I was really planning on doing this because I didn't see any light at the end of the tunnel. And that was my last bet, was Monday, December 2nd. I like played all five grand of it. It was crazy parlay to try to win as much money back as possible. And I knew the next day it was like going to rehab. Like, if I go to rehab tomorrow, like I'm going to drink and get high tonight cuz I'm going to rehab tomorrow. So it was one of those moments and then I got to ga and I like got a sponsor and they do this, this thing out there and in ga. It's amazing.

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Louis Ruggiero (85:41)

called a pressure relief group. So for people who come in who they don't even need to have debt necessarily. The thing about compulsive gamblers like myself is that after gambling for so long, I. My money, my, my perception of money is so fucking distorted. Yeah, it's like I used to bet $10,000 on Chinese ping pong at 3 o' clock in the morning. So I wouldn't spend 500 on shoes, but I'd spend 10 grand on Chinese ping pong at 3 O'. Clock. Which by the way, you can't even watch. You're watching a ball go over your screen like this. Sick. It's really sick. It's. I laugh at it now but like there's people out there right now who are probably doing the same thing. And so they go through, they do. This thing is called a pressure relief group where you list out all of your debts, you list out your expenses, every expense, grocery, ubers, diapers, whatever expense you have, every single one. And then you put your income in. And basically these veterans who have been doing this for multiple decades come through and they talk to you and they say, okay, Devorah, you're who's giving you the most pressure right now? Are you in danger if you don't pay this person their money? Do you owe any dangerous people money from sports betting? You go through and you prioritize who you're paying back and you basically, I basically called all my creditors and basically told all them, like, I'm a compulsive gambler. I took your money to gamble. I'm fighting for my life right now. You know, I have a child. Please give me a, a 60 day moratorium to come up with an appropriate and respectable payment plan for you. And in 60 days I'll come back to you and we'll start the payment plan. And some of my creditors were obviously very hurt and angry and were like, yeah, what other choice do I have? Some of them were hurt, angry, but also like, it all makes sense now. Like, at least we know now what's going on. What's going on. And the two most used phrases in my vocabulary for the last 10 years has been I'm sorry and I'll pay you back on Friday. And both of those things meant nothing to anybody close to me because I'd say sorry and do the same thing over again. And Friday would come and no one would get their money. So for these people, it was like, yeah, we're not getting paid. And we came up with this payment plan. We. I turned over all my finances. Mia runs my bank accounts, I have a credit card. And I didn't watch sports for a year. I still don't watch sports. I'm a little over a year and I'm like barely watching. I barely watch any sports. And I self excluded. So I sent these forms into the state of New York, basically banning myself from any of these apps, so I can't gamble. And we do the pressure relief group. I come up with these payment plans. I get all of my creditors to accept these payment plans. Some of them were not too thrilled at the amount of money then, how long it's going to take. And then others were kind of like, I'll take anything from you at this point. And now a little over a year into that, all of my creditors are like, I'm so proud of you. You have either paid me on the 1st or have paid me a couple of days early. I never ask you for the money. Your podcast is incredible. You look healthy. You, you were present with your kid. My fiance and soon to be wife is like, never seen this version of you in five years, of everything I put her through.

Devora (89:15)

And it's a journey.

Louis Ruggiero (89:16)

It's a journey.

Host (89:17)

You know, like, I feel like I, I say this to so many people and it's in so many different ways, but you can be in a place where you're obviously so much better and you're, you know, working on Yourself and growing and healing, but they're still. That doesn't mean that they. There aren't weak days or weak points. And I think that's kind of just owning the addiction. And it's not that it defines you, but it's realizing, like, we're human. We can't always be perfect. We're not. You know, you can work on yourself every single day, but you still might have days where, like, you don't fully show up for yourself.

Louis Ruggiero (89:49)

Yeah, I think. I think it's really important that people understand. You know, some people like myself, I've caused so much damage for so long that now there's, like, this pressure to be perfect all of the time. And I, like, Mia is so graceful with me, and she gives me the space to go to as many meetings as I want. Like, I love meetings now. Like, I chair an AA meeting. I chair a Gambler's Anonymous zoom. My whole platform has become helping addicts. And really with a focus on compulsive gamblers and the amount of messages I receive on a daily basis. For men who are just an immense amount of pain and living in the dark, stolen all their money from their family, want to kill themselves. Gambling, gambling, gambling. If I get 20 messages a day, 18 of them are from compulsive gamblers. And the journey is. Really begins once you stop the drinking, the drugging, and the gambling. I can't stop until I'm out of that insanity. I can't stop until I'm, like, living in somewhat of the light. And people ask me all the time, like, what's. What do I need to do as my first step. I said, you need to go and tell everyone you love and trust what the. Is going on.

Host (91:14)

Yeah. I was gonna say it sounds like too, that the communication and the honesty aspect is really what holds you accountable. Because it's the most like. Like you mentioned with the gambling, you were able to hide it because it's not like you're wearing it physically. You can't really see it.

Louis Ruggiero (91:29)

Yeah.

Host (91:29)

Even if you're stressed, you can kind of blame stress on anything. But I feel like once you voice it and everyone around you knows, it does kind of force you to hold yourself accountable and be like, this is real and it's a problem and it's happening.

Louis Ruggiero (91:43)

Gambling is so insidious. So insidious. And it's like the financial aspect of things makes it so much more.

Host (91:52)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (91:53)

Painful. And of all the addictions suic gambling has the highest rate of suicidal ideation. Right out of all the Addictions.

Host (92:02)

And that doesn't surprise me because that was one of the other thoughts I had as well, was the fact that money's involved. I mean, that is enough to drive you nuts.

Louis Ruggiero (92:12)

I don't have money to buy diapers, right? Kid? One day I have half a million dollars in my bank account, the next day I'm negative $2,000.

Devora (92:19)

Yeah, it's right.

Host (92:21)

It goes beyond just your health and you. And just like your, your body, it becomes this resource that we rely on to survive, to have a good life.

Louis Ruggiero (92:32)

Yeah.

Host (92:32)

And then when that's ripped away, you have none of it, plus you're in debt. It does, it doesn't surprise me that people will think to themselves, well, no other way out. Like, how are you going to pay it back? You know, I think when you're alone in something, it is nearly impossible.

Louis Ruggiero (92:47)

Yeah. And I think what felt the most impossible for me was actually ever stopping. And I think that's what scares so many gamblers and people I talk to is like, how could I ever, like, how is this ever gonna stop? And I'm like, bro, I lived like that for 12 years. I could like go on a 6 month bender with drugs and alcohol and be like, okay, I have to stop. And somehow I'd always like cold turkey stop and put together three, six months, whatever, before I'd go back out again. But I could never stop gambling. And if I wasn't gambling, I'd be obsessing over my next bet. And then when I was gambling, everything revolved around where I was getting money, how much money I needed and what I was betting on. And it was all day. It was all day from the moment my eyes woke up. I checked sports, I checked lines, I checked everything to the moment I went to bed. And it was incessant over and over again. And I tell people, I'm like, I lived in prison. I lived in prison. I don't say this for like, oh, poor you, like a pity party.

Host (93:57)

I'm like, honest.

Louis Ruggiero (93:58)

I'm saying this because, like, I see that there's 16 year old kids who are using their father's Social Security or mother's Social Security number to bet on Fanduel. And like, my bets didn't start at $50,000 a game. I didn't start going to the casino, betting $10,000 a hand of blackjack. Like, I started with going to the Bahamas at Christmas when I was 15 years old. I took 200 of my Christmas money, I played blackjack for the first time and I turned it into nine Grand. Not having any idea how to play, asking the dealer hit or stay this or that every single time.

Host (94:34)

And I think when you win, it makes it look so easy and quick. So you're like, oh, I can keep doing this.

Louis Ruggiero (94:38)

I thought I was like, Like, I'm gonna build my empire. I'm never gonna work. This is amazing.

Host (94:43)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (94:44)

And then my first time ever betting with a bookie in college, I went 13 for 13 on $100 bets, and I won 1300 bucks.

Host (94:52)

I'm like, this is great.

Louis Ruggiero (94:53)

I'm the fucking guru.

Host (94:54)

I mean, and that's. I'm the chosen one with anything. When you just start out and you just, like, dabble in something, even like when you're mentioning the drugs, of course, it seems amazing and feels good, but with anything, you go down this path of no control and too much, and it's. It ends up ruining your life.

Louis Ruggiero (95:14)

Yeah. And then, you know, I tell people all the time, it's like, when I. I went down to GA in 2016, I got up in front of this room, these room of guys, and I said to them, I said, if I just win, I don't have to come back here. All I gotta do is win. And I thought that everything was like a money problem. If I just made more money, everything's gonna be fine. But, like, as I made more money, my bets got larger because it needed to be relative for me to feel that rush, that adrenaline, that high. And I would get just. I would. I would get just as high losing as I would winning, maybe even higher. And, like, there was, like this ultimate relief sometimes when, like, I'd gamble every penny I had because I knew I couldn't. It was over. I was like, oh. And then the next day, it's okay. Who am I going to borrow money from? Who am I going to do this to? Am I going to do that to. I'm not stealing from them because I. That's what I told myself. I'm not stealing from people because I'm gonna pay them back. But I had no way of paying them back unless I won my bets, which, plus more far, far few between.

Devora (96:19)

Do you find that now because you've

Host (96:21)

been sober from gambling for what you said a year?

Louis Ruggiero (96:24)

A year and a month.

Host (96:25)

Okay, so do you find that now there's certain things that are triggers for you? I'm sure, like you said, I know you don't watch sports often. Like, do you ever find yourself still thinking about it or getting that pool?

Louis Ruggiero (96:38)

You glamorize it in your mind sometimes.

Host (96:40)

Okay.

Louis Ruggiero (96:40)

Not necessarily. You know, like I tell people, addiction is the only disease that tries to convince you you don't have a disease. I think my mind is sick. My mind remembers only the good times in Vegas. Winning money and doing coke with friends and hot girls. And everything is beautiful, picturesque movie, perfect, right? Your mind doesn't. Your mind buries the time when you're in your basement alone at 3 o' clock in the morning, every penny is

Host (97:19)

gone and you want to kill yourself.

Louis Ruggiero (97:21)

You're high out of your mind.

Host (97:22)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (97:24)

Swarm this. Swore to God this would never happen again. And here you are again. And then you wake up again tomorrow and do it all over again, Right? And so, yeah, I catch myself. But I know, right? And I know because I work a

Host (97:42)

program and it's like constantly reinforcing.

Louis Ruggiero (97:47)

And I've now I'm like, so certain. I'm so certain that I'm powerless over that first bet. And I'm so certain that I'm powerless. If I take a sip of alcohol right now, there is a very high chance I'm on a plane to Cartagena, Colombia, within the next 12 hours to burn my life down. That's how severe of an addict I am. And my disease is never cured. I can arrest it, I can keep it arrested, but as an addict, my disease is never, ever cured.

Host (98:20)

And so it's like every day, it's a choice you have to make.

Louis Ruggiero (98:23)

Every day is choice. And I do, you know, people are like, oh, I don't want to go to aa. And like, listen, here's the deal. You can. I probably put between my prayer meditation and a meeting, that's like 6% of my day if you break out.

Host (98:44)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (98:44)

Time that it takes to do that, 6% of my day, to live the other 94% of my day free, happy, joyous and free. And that's what these programs have to offer you.

Host (98:59)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (99:00)

And for people who are suffering, whether it's drugs, alcohol or gambling, there is a better way of life. Like, we can return to normalcy. Like, my mom, a year and a half ago, wouldn't leave her pocketbook in the same room as me. A year and a half later, my mom has me doing the cash drops at, at the bank for the restaurant with 10, 20, 30, 000 cash. She has me getting my grandma's check for her, cashing it and bringing her the cash home. Six hours later, she wouldn't trust me with $5.

Host (99:37)

Yeah. And that's incredible too, because I feel like that's another part of your journey. That probably makes you feel like that's a gift to you, like, I'm earning these people's trust back that I love most.

Louis Ruggiero (99:49)

And I think, like, most, like I said this in the beginning, like most addicts, like, we're not bad people trying to get good. We're sick trying to get well. And a lot of us. And I'll speak from in the eye. I felt like I stayed stuck in addiction for so long because everything I was doing was contradicting my own morals and values, and yet I couldn't stop myself from doing that. And so I felt like such a piece of that the only way I wouldn't feel like a piece of was to drink, use, or gamble. The drugs, alcohol, and gambling weren't my problem after a certain point. It was the solution to my problem.

Host (100:22)

Right.

Louis Ruggiero (100:23)

My problem is my way of thinking. So all these, like, major realizations that I had come to and accepted because I had come to them a long time ago, I just never wanted to accept them. It was like, okay, once I accept these things and I can really do the work to actually, like, maybe change the way I think, and once I change the way I think, my life will get better. Like, the rock bottom for people is different, Right? Your rock bottom can be, like, you black out one weekend with your girlfriends, you're like, okay, that's it. I'm going to aa. I'm never drinking again.

Host (100:56)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (100:56)

And my rock bottom is like, a hundred different ones, you know? And the thing that makes these programs so amazing is that we can have those different experiences, but we share the common problem. And the common problem is that we, most of us, don't like ourselves and are not happy. And we chose drugs and alcohol to make us happy. And then we come together and we sit, we have some coffee, we hear a good speaker, and we create a community.

Host (101:35)

I was gonna. You took the words out of mouth. I was gonna say community is so important, you know, And I, I. What you just said, the statement you just made, is very similar to what I say about the guests on the show. You know, you might click on an episode and the title is outrageous. Something that you've never, you know, you can't possibly relate to. But as you're listening to someone talk about what they felt, the emotions of people, they're so similar. There's so many overlaps, and it really creates a community. And I think community is what is so important to just help people feel like they're not alone. Because when you are in these low places, it's very Easy to feel like there's no way out. No one understands how I feel. Everybody else is living a perfect life, like I'm the problem, you know, all this stuff. And at the end of the day, I think everybody, whether it's addiction or depression or endless amounts of things, I, I do believe that we have to sort of go through these low points. And once again, those are going to be different for everybody. Some are super low, some are kind of low, you know, depending on the person and the circumstances, of course. But I think that we have to go through these parts of life and not knowing who we are and maybe even being a thousand different versions of ourselves before we can get to a place where we can reflect and be like, you know, I didn't like these five versions, but I'll take a little bit of this and a little bit of that and it takes a while to find yourself. And something else that I love that you mentioned, which is so true. And I think such a good way for people to look at self work is that if you really lay out your day because nobody really wants to put in the work, it seems like a burden. It seems like, it seems like we never have enough time because our world is so fast paced. But if you look at it from the perspective of like, it's really only, you know, 6% of my day, even 10 of my day compared to everything else. If you just put in that work every day and you're consistent with it and it becomes part of routine, like brushing your teeth, it can make the biggest difference. You just have to have that discipline. But I do think that self discipline is such a huge step in becoming the version of yourself that you're going to be most proud of.

Louis Ruggiero (103:46)

Yeah. And I think, you know, to know that I'm not different than others in all of the things that I've done. There's like comfort in that and like, you know, like whether you're an addict or not, whether you, you could just be like bipolar or have schizophrenia or depression, whatever it is. Like there are so many people out there who also suffer from the same thing. Then there are also a lot of people out there who suffer from the same thing, but have also done the work to like live a normal life.

Host (104:18)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (104:18)

And listen, my life is, it's normal. I work, I take care of my family, I go to the gym, blah, blah, blah. But I used to live in the nines and the tens or the zeros and the ones. And like now like, I've had to like reset my brain and Emotional system to like, there's going to be like when I get married in March, that's going to be a 9 or 10 and that's going to be amazing. But I'm going to be fully present to understand that like this is a 9 or 10 moment and then it's going to go back to being in the four or five and sixes. Yeah. And that's also okay.

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Louis Ruggiero (105:53)

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stage, people aren't just watching, they're cheering together.

Louis Ruggiero (106:10)

This winter, everyone is all on the same. Team Comcast, proud partner of Team usa. Like that's actually good for somebody like you balance and like there's going to be the zero and the ones you're going to lose your parents, you're going to lose your grandparents, lose Dot, whatever the case is. Like life is always going to be like that, but it doesn't have to be like this, right? And I think the, the tools of, of the program and the 12 steps have really helped me move through life and understand that like my sponsor, I don't know if I should. I'll say it anyways. He says that like, you know, just because you get sober, life's not going to be pizza and blow jobs all the time, you know, and it's like shit's gonna happen. But, like, you have the tools of this program and, like, you use the tools of this program and you're going to be okay. Yeah. And I think with where we're at right now in society and just like people are dying, it's not. You're not just sniffing coke anymore. There's a high chance you're going to sniff coke with fentanyl. And you have kids who are gambling for fun and they're getting addicted. And These companies like FanDuel and DraftKings, all these companies are like their marketing.

Host (107:25)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (107:26)

Their customers that they make the most money off of are addicts, degenerates like me who are gambling everything they have daily. I'm not telling people not to gamble. There are some people, like, I have a friend who gambles like maybe five times a year, and it's like he's a multi millionaire and he bets like 200. I can't wrap my head around how he's able to do that.

Host (107:49)

But some people can.

Louis Ruggiero (107:50)

Some people can.

Host (107:51)

Some people can go out and have one drink. Some people have one drink and it leads to a million. So everyone is just so different.

Louis Ruggiero (107:57)

But for the people that it leads to a million, you're not alone. You're not a bad person. You're not different. You're not unique. You just got that thing.

Host (108:10)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (108:10)

Got that ism.

Host (108:11)

Right. And I think too, speaking about it and going through things doesn't make you weak. It makes you human.

Louis Ruggiero (108:18)

Yeah.

Host (108:19)

And I think the fact that you speak out about this, because like you said, I think it can be very glamorized. Even to this day, I still think alcohol and partying is very glamorous. People crave it. You want to. Everything is good at the peak of it.

Louis Ruggiero (108:33)

Yeah.

Host (108:34)

The first shot, first few shots, you're tipsy, it's fun. You're partying, you're dancing, you win money. It's all a high. And we're always chasing that high, but it always drops down. Like, the end result is never good.

Louis Ruggiero (108:48)

Yeah.

Host (108:48)

So I feel like, you know, to speak out about that and just it's important to always have that constant reminder because it's not all glamour, you know, what we see in the movies is not realistic. And life can get dark really fast. So I give you so much credit for speaking out about it because like you said, there was a point where you completely hit it and you were dealing with it all on your own. And I think that, you know, like, with everybody that comes on here and that has their own podcast or speaks out on TikTok about their. Their stories. It empowers a lot of people and it helps a lot of people. And even if you're not changing someone's life, you're making them feel like they're not battling something by themselves.

Louis Ruggiero (109:31)

Yeah. And it's like, you know, I. The stigma around addicts in general. We were talking about this a little bit offline, whether it's alcoholics or drug addicts, like, you can say you're sober now and, like, it's kind of, like, becoming like, a cool thing. I don't know about cool, but, like, it's very accepted. Yeah, it's very accepted. And my parents, when they were kids, there was a big stigma around that. Right now with. With gambling, there's a really big stigma. There's still a big stigma. And there's a stigma because it's been taboo, it's been illegal, it hasn't been allowed. And then. Then you blink your eyes and you look on TV, and it's like LeBron James doing a commercial for a sports book.

Host (110:11)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (110:13)

So it's out there. It's always going to be out there. And in 20 years from now, there'll be something else that.

Host (110:19)

Yeah.

Louis Ruggiero (110:20)

They're trying to sell us to get addicted to. But I think that once. Once we start doing the work on ourselves, you're able to, like, think more control. Yeah. And, like, just know the. The right way and the wrong way and, like, have control over which path.

Host (110:36)

I think, too, working on yourself and like I said, having discipline with yourself, that is a form of control. And I think that really can bleed over into other aspects in your life. It makes you more grounded and more controlled to say no to things.

Louis Ruggiero (110:50)

Yeah.

Host (110:50)

You know, you have more of. Of it's a decision for you rather than, like, how can I please someone else? Or how can I just do something for this moment? Rather than let me think a little bit more ahead. What's good for me, what's good for my family, what's good for the people around me?

Louis Ruggiero (111:04)

Yeah.

Host (111:04)

You know, so. But you did amazing. Your story is incredible.

Louis Ruggiero (111:07)

Thank you.

Host (111:09)

Of course, there was definitely parts of it, too, that it's like you would never expect to come out through there. So, you know, it is crazy, but it's definitely one that's 100% worth telling, and it's going to help a lot of people. So I appreciate it so much.

Louis Ruggiero (111:22)

Thanks for having me.