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- [00:01]
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- [00:30]
Kimberly Gibbs
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- [00:45]
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- [01:27]
Kimberly Gibbs
See for yourself@botoxcosmetic.com My name is Kimberly Gibbs, I'm 35 years old and I survived the worst case of child abuse in the state of Kansas in 1999. And throughout my journey I have found out that my father is a pedophile for over 50 years and it's it's been a long road and I try to bring awareness of what it's like after child abuse. You hear so often about people that don't make it to after child abuse, abuse and child essay, but I talk about what it's like after because it is a lifelong traumatic event that paves the wave for you to live, whether it be in a negative aspect or you can take that negative experience and make it something positive. And that's where I'm at now. But I it wasn't always that easy for me. It's a journey, it is for sure and I think there needs to be more awareness and and I think there needs to be more help for individuals as someone that survived child Essay and Child abuse. I continued that pattern into adulthood, whether it be through domestic violence situations or abusive relationships, like, mentally and physically with other people. And I just wasn't hypervigilant of my own actions and other people's. And so I just want to change the stigma across surviving child abuse. I think there needs to be more understanding for the survivors. Yeah.
- [02:59]
Interviewer
And I think, too, it's so important to talk about situations and cases like that, because I think a lot of times people feel like they're ashamed of it, and it just is easier not to talk about it and stay silent. But then if they do that, other people that are experiencing it don't really have the resources or that community to feel like, oh, wow, I'm not alone in this, you know, which is the most important thing, because the harsh reality is it's very real and it does happen and it should be talked about.
- [03:28]
Kimberly Gibbs
I agree wholeheartedly. I started sharing my story, honestly just about five months ago in October.
- [03:35]
Interviewer
And that was on TikTok, right?
- [03:36]
Kimberly Gibbs
Y on TikTok. I had an incident in October where I had a vulvalist, which is my intestines had twisted, and I was headed to have emergency surgery in a different state about an hour away from where I live. And I was essayed by a medic in the back of an ambulance. Yeah. And so I immediately took up my phone and I recorded him continuing to ask me to take Dilaudid, which I already had. And I kept saying no. And he had made a comment about, don't worry, I love drugs. You don't have to like it. And he continued to give it to me after I said no. And at this point, we were already parked at the hospital, like, I should have been inside already having the surgery. And then he continued to ask for my phone number and to send pictures of myself.
- [04:20]
Interviewer
Was there anyone else in the back with you, too, or was just you and him?
- [04:22]
Kimberly Gibbs
Nope, it was a third party medic because they didn't actually have any other ambulances. But after he had. He stuck his head between my legs and grinded his teeth, say, like, against my vaginal area. And he said he was trying to remove my IV off my arm right here. And that's not what he did. So I immediately took my phone out. Like, I think it was one of those things where I'm grateful it was me and not somebody else because I've already been on that type of medication so before. And. And so I already was, like, coherent enough to at least be conscious enough to turn my phone on. And that's when I caught him on tape, you know, saying that, like, it's okay if I don't like drugs, he likes drugs. And that I was probably like, oh, don't threaten me with a good time. Like, he really just made me feel very uncomfortable and then continued to ask me if I would send him photos of myself. And so I immediately went to Tick Tock after I told the social worker and reported it, because he was talking about going to, I believe, North Carolina, where they had the floodings. And I didn't want somebody who just been victimized by Mother Nature to be victimized by this man. And so I went to Tick Tock and then I went to therapy and I told her what I did, and she's like, you need to share your story. Yeah, you need to tell them. If you can do that and think of other people, I think you should use your past and tell everybody that you really are this survivor. Because it was a very public case against my father in 1990, 99. It really started, though, in 1989, on December 18th. And that's the day I was born. I was born early with my twin sister at 27 weeks. My biological father is Danny Beauclair, and he had beat my mother really, really bad when she was pregnant with us. And so she went to early term labor at 27 weeks with us. So I've had glasses since I was a baby because I was born with a neurological condition that caused my eyes to be crossed with a lazy eye. I was born with a hole in my heart, had a heart murmur, and my twin sister and I had severely underdeveloped lungs. So we lived in the NICU for a while. And I actually have some really cute photos because.
- [06:36]
Interviewer
Please show me.
- [06:37]
Kimberly Gibbs
They were when I was a baby, when I had my glasses.
- [06:42]
Interviewer
I love. I was going to tell you, too. I love your glasses. Like, your frames are so pretty.
- [06:46]
Kimberly Gibbs
Thank you. So this is when I was, like, in the nicu and you can actually see, like, there's still my names on them. So this is just me. I stayed in the longest. So my biological cousin is Baby Fay. She's famous from 1985 for having a heart transplant of a baboon's heart put in, and she lived 19 days with it in California. Her name is Stephanie Fable. Claire.
- [07:12]
Interviewer
Wow.
- [07:13]
Kimberly Gibbs
So that's my biological cousin, my aunt, my biological father's sister's kid. So I had a similar condition. It's just mine wasn't nearly as severe. So I apologize. I'm looking.
- [07:25]
Interviewer
No, you're totally Fine.
- [07:27]
Kimberly Gibbs
Here we go. Oh, yeah, Just so glasses. So cute. I have to take this out and you can see my. My twin sister was a chunker compared to me.
- [07:38]
Interviewer
I love it.
- [07:39]
Kimberly Gibbs
The only time she's ever been bigger than me.
- [07:41]
Interviewer
Oh, so cute.
- [07:43]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah.
- [07:43]
Interviewer
Oh, my goodness.
- [07:44]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah. So I had surgery at five. They allowed us to actually go home at, like, six months old.
- [07:52]
Interviewer
So you were in the NICU for six months?
- [07:54]
Kimberly Gibbs
My twin sister and I were at this point, they had actually started investigating when we were born, but they did not remove us. Our biological mother had three kids already, so I had two older brothers and an older sister. Unfortunately, when she married our biological father, they switched from being Catholics to Jehovah Witnesses. And so that's when I. We started to grow up with no holidays, no birthdays. We weren't allowed to say the Pledge of Allegiance. That was something that we grew up in. So we went to the Kingdom hall, and that's like the church for Jehovah Witnesses. And so that was something that was normalized in our life growing up. Though it wasn't until I was about four years old when the abuse started. It was always physical. Like, he was very abusive in the manner of using, like, a belt or he would beat us really bad. When I was about five years old, he hit me really bad in the shoulder. So I actually have uneven shoulders, and my collarbone is broken. And he never took us to the hospital. And that's because he's a Jehovah Witness. When you're a Jehovah Witness, you do not have to go see a doctor. You can get away with certain things because you can use the religion exempt. So there was a lot of things that happened in the home that we were able to. Well, I say we. But he was able to get away with because he used the religion, so he knew what he was doing. So when I think of my biological father, I tend to think more of him as a Jeffrey Dahmer of child abuse and child pedo because of his repeated pattern of being a narcissist and the way that he's easily able to adapt his surroundings to make it work for him. And that's kind of terrifying. And I think there needs to be more of awareness about that because those are not a. I mean, the great kind of special breed that you want to be around of people, but terrifying. And so I've done a lot of, like, research myself on, like, what it takes place in the mind of people like that, because I wanted to understand, like, why they allowed this to happen. I was about four years old when the essays started to take place with my biological father. And it wasn't just me, but I am just telling my story only. And when I was about six years old, my half brother started to sas and he was much older than us. And our biological mother knew she absolutely did nothing to stop it. And a lot of people have asked me, well, do you think it's because she was a victim? And she was. But I think for me to understand that I would have to have compassion and understanding. And I have compassion, but I don't have the understanding as someone that also is a mom.
- [10:54]
Interviewer
Right.
- [10:55]
Kimberly Gibbs
You know, and I've also been into the DV situation myself and I left because I have children and they are my top priority. So growing up was extremely difficult in the aspect. It was more than just physical abuse and sexual abuse. It was a manipulative game. I was not fed food, I was fed dog food. So like, just like the hard dog food that we had for our dog Mc boy, they would force us to eat that and then we wouldn't be allowed to use a toilet. We'd be forced to use our room vent in our room as a toilet.
- [11:35]
Interviewer
Did they have reasons for this or just was?
- [11:38]
Kimberly Gibbs
No, not really. And, and I, I think part of the reason why he is the way he is, I now know that my like biological grandmother was abused really bad. And then I'll definitely, like, you'll find out later on that my biological father also abused my aunts when they were young. So I mean, he's been doing this for 50 years and she excused his behavior. She always made excuses. And I think that's because she had such an unhealthy relationship with my father. Like it was borderline, like were there in a relationship kind of weird. And I, and I say that because like she spent millions of dollars on him while he was in prison. She supported him when he got out. She immediately like forgot everybody. My grandmother and I were very close while he was in prison. And as soon as he got out, she dumped everybody and was just like infatuated with him. It was very unhealthy.
- [12:34]
Interviewer
Hey guys. Today's episode is sponsored by fatty15. Okay. Whenever there is something that makes a pretty decent difference in my life, I feel like I have to share it. I have to talk about it with all my friends and tell them what I have discovered, what I found. And that being said, the older I've gotten, the more I have noticed the, the aging effects on my body of age. Obviously, that being said, I noticed My energy is dipping earlier in the day. My joints are making some pretty concerning noises. And the thing that upsets me the most is my sleep. I am just not getting as good of sleep lately and that can really affect my day. That being said, I'm sure like many of you over the years, I have tried many different supplements which either I just really didn't feel a difference with or. Or they just ended up collecting dust because I would take them for a week and then I would stop. But then I started taking fatty 15, which is actually an essential fatty acid called C15 and it helps repair your cells and it actually supports your body on a cellular level, which is where the real aging starts. If you are somebody that is trying to slow down the aging process or just feel better in general, just have more energy, feel like your body is loose and good and young and healthy, then I definitely recommend fatty 15 because it is something that is healthy for you and something that everybody could benefit from and most likely needs in their body. And I always am a big believer. And it all starts and what you're putting in your body, that's really going to reflect on the outside. Fatty 15 is on a mission to optimize your C15 levels to help you live healthier and longer. You can get an additional 15% off their 90 day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com insane and using code INSANE at checkout. That is fatty15.com insane. And now back to the episode.
- [14:26]
Kimberly Gibbs
So I think she just allowed that. I think that was like her version of her person.
- [14:31]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [14:31]
Kimberly Gibbs
Even though that was her son.
- [14:32]
Interviewer
Okay, makes sense.
- [14:34]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah. So it was very difficult growing up in that home because we would tell her these things, our biological grandparents and, and it was like, don't worry about it. I'll never forget when I was about eight years old, our biological father beat her mom really bad and broke her arm. She was getting ready for work and he got upset saying that she was getting ready to go see somebody. So he broke her arm. So they went to the hospital. My older half brother, my. My second oldest half brother called my grandmother and asked Rosella, my grandmother, if they, there was anything we should do because they just, you know, left. He had broke her arm. She said, don't worry about it, just go back to sleep. They'll be back in the morning. Everything was fine. Yeah. And, and that's how it was treated in the home. It was very much acknowledged, but not acknowledged. Like everybody knew it was happening. We were forced. There was four of us girls and we Were forced to share a full size bed together. And when you go through sexual abuse, one of the signs is actually having accidents. You develop something called enuresis. So we would have accidents and they wouldn't clean it up. We would be forced to exchange services in order to take a shower. And whether it be our father or our half brother, it'd be one or the other that we would have to get through in order to use the shower. And we would essentially be forced to do these things even when there wasn't, like, anything that we wanted or, like food or anything. I have a massive indention on the back of my skull because I asked for medication once. I was very sick, and he threw me through a window. My biological father. And then.
- [16:20]
Interviewer
And that was how old?
- [16:21]
Kimberly Gibbs
I was eight years old.
- [16:23]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [16:23]
Kimberly Gibbs
And then I was about two weeks before we were removed out of the home. I was 9. I have a younger sister, she was about 4, and she hadn't ate in days. And we have 4. You don't know right from wrong. And so if you. She did anything wrong, it wasn't really as severe as they would make it seem. And they would take food away. So he barely left food out. So I snuck out one night and I took a cookie. She needed to eat. You know, like, at nine years old, I knew that, like, I had that instinct. And I got caught. And so he picked me up and threw me through a desk. One of those wooden desks that form from a chair into a wooden desk is one of those. And so I have, like, right here, Another indention. And I suffer from audio processing disorder because I had pushed my subrollium in so far that, like, sometimes I just mix up my words or it's like, correct in my brain, but it just doesn't, like, come out right correctly. Yeah.
- [17:20]
Interviewer
So when they would make you guys use the bathroom and the vents, would they ever clean it out or it would just pile up.
- [17:26]
Kimberly Gibbs
It would just like, pile up. And when he would leave for work, he was a striper. So the yellow lines you see at, like, Walmart or in parking lots, that's what he did. And so we had two options. We could either go with him and go in the back of his trailer and his brakes would consist of us, or we would be forced to stay home. And he would put, like, either mail or he had one of those, like, lock clips. And if you tried to open the door, you couldn't get out. And at first it was a piece of mail. And then he caught on that we knew where Exactly. To place it and it would kind of fall and he would mark it. And so he put a lock in. So he'd lock it and we wouldn't be allowed to get out whatsoever. So no food. Depending on, you know, that's eight hours a day, you know, and there'd be days that we couldn't go to school because he had beat us so bad and everything like that, that we would just be locked up for days.
- [18:19]
Interviewer
And at school. Do you think teachers ever realized that abuse was going on?
- [18:23]
Kimberly Gibbs
They did. But one of the things about living with someone like my biological father, Danny is they would tell you, don't tell anybody. On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.
- [19:02]
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- [19:07]
Kimberly Gibbs
I've been on hold to make a doctor's appointment for 23 minutes now. The automated voice has told me 47 times that my call is very important to them. I'm starting to think that they don't think my call is important at all.
- [19:22]
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- [19:32]
Kimberly Gibbs
Painful or I will hurt you or. Yeah. And you believe that because you know what they're capable of.
- [19:39]
Interviewer
Well, you're living through it.
- [19:40]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I will say it was one of my older siblings that was brave enough to, you know, reach out and tell somebody outside of our church. I had told somebody when I was about seven years old because at six years old, I was being essayed by both my half brother and my biological father. So I told someone in the Jehovah Witness community and absolutely nothing happened. And so I lost faith at a very young age with religion, I guess, in a way, but also just within the church and people. I lost that.
- [20:13]
Interviewer
Right.
- [20:13]
Kimberly Gibbs
But when I was in third grade, I had a teacher reach out and. And I have to say her name because she was absolutely amazing. Ms. Angie Boleyjack. To this day, I'm very grateful and she's still part of my life, but she noticed some things after I had been thrown through that desk that seemed off. I just wasn't normally myself. I Had suffered a concussion and she went to the school and they had already had complaints already. My older siblings were removed first. I had one sibling removed, honestly, about six months before we were okay. And then they removed two other siblings shortly after that. And then they waited a couple more months before they removed us. The system did not remove us all at the same time. And it was about a couple days before we were. We were removed that I remember Danny looking at us and saying, any day now, any day they're going to take you. He knew. He was waiting for it. And that's the sad thing. Like, he knew what he was doing wrong. And I wish I could be angry at him, but I pity him because to think that that is something normalized and that it's okay to do children like that, it's actually really, really sad. And I have children of my own and never could I imagine doing anything remotely like that. And he really thought it was normal. And the fact that our biological mother allowed him to do that, like. And it wasn't just that. Like, there was so much that happened in the home. I. I sucked my thumb until I was about 12, so I was already removed out of the home. But that. That's on coping mechanisms. So he would take hot sauce import down my arm and my thumb and force me to suck on my thumb with the hot sauce. And he would force me to be duct taped with one of those, like, hospital socks. And I would have to wear that to school. I would have to wear that on public. That was his form of punishment. He did a lot of things dark and twisted in that manner. I also would be forced to sleep out in the garage if I did something wrong or one of us did. And we'd be given no blanket, no nothing except the soda cans that are in the garage that were for recycling. And we were a big family. There was six of us kids and two adults.
- [22:35]
Interviewer
And all of you pretty much had the same treatment from your dad and mom, would you say?
- [22:39]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah, definitely. Our biological half brothers were not essayed. Okay, but one of them did. SAS sisters.
- [22:47]
Interviewer
Right.
- [22:48]
Kimberly Gibbs
But yes, essentially all the same. And our biological mother, yes, she was a victim, but, like, he would force her to make like her to. To do things to us as well. So there would be times where, like, we would need our nutrition. So he would force her and she would willingly comply by making us juices, by taking like, spinach and apples and juicing them. And that's how we got nutrition. Because obviously dog food, you takes a wear and tear on you and it's not good for you. And so I were primarily eating the.
- [23:20]
Interviewer
Dog food, would you say? For the most part.
- [23:22]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah, for the most part. Up until like we left. I know at school, like my miss bully Jack would notice these things and she kind of would give me extra food and I will never forget we had like a Chinese themed week and she gave me all the extra like stir fry because I was always hungry. I would steal food or I would ask for food and. And I actually live in the town this happened in now. And so people knew, like, and like people to this day tell me, like, we knew people in your family. Like, I'm so sorry, like this happened. And the crazy thing is, is when I was young and I was going through this, I didn't realize how many people were questioning and how bad the system was lacking on listening to these people. Like all the teachers, all the reports even. I mean, 10 years of investigating my Biolo father almost before they actually took us away. I was closer to 10 than I was 9. And I, I don't know what that says about the system, but it's not great, you know. And when I was growing up, he would force us to watch scary movies as a form of punishment. So like Chainsaw Massacre, Chucky, things like that. And it wasn't until I started my healing journey in my 30s, I'm 35 now, before I could actually start watching a scary movie because it did take a toll. And those type of things permanently damage you in ways unless you like, consciously try to work on it. You don't even realize that's why it affects you, but it does. Like I, I did and I still do sometimes struggle with scary things. There was a lot of negative treatment towards my, my brothers for sure, but I felt like the girls had it the worst.
- [25:11]
Interviewer
Did you ever see any sympathy from your mom at all? Would you say no?
- [25:16]
Kimberly Gibbs
No. To this day I have seen her. When I was 18, I tried to re. Establish like a relationship with her. And I think she kind of acknowledges like, she shouldn't have allowed it, but she's still with him.
- [25:29]
Interviewer
Wow.
- [25:30]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah. So we obviously went through a lot and when we were removed, they actually moved us. Me, my twin sister and my little sister together. My older sister and older half siblings had already been removed, already had established foster homes.
- [25:45]
Interviewer
So why did they not remove you guys all at once? Do you know?
- [25:50]
Kimberly Gibbs
I think it's because of the way that the reports were made. Okay, so one sibling had a report made just specifically that person. So they removed that person and then My older half brothers were removed first because of, like, there was a. There was a physical altercation. I don't exactly remember exactly what happened, but I do know that one of the half brothers ended up receiving a broken nose out in, like, outside in public. I think that him and my biological father had a physical altercation. It was witnessed, so they were removed. And then obviously, the situation happened where I wasn't, like, coherently enough, like, after I had been thrown into the desk. So some complaints had came in, and I think that they. The other teacher, started to connect the dots where the other siblings were, and so they started to ask us questions, and then that's when I felt comfortable enough to share, because Ms. Boleyjack had already built this relationship with me where I felt like I could open up to her. Yeah. And so that's why they ended up removing us all together. And because my twin sister and little sister and I all shared the same siblings, they felt that it was best to keep us together, whereas my older half sister had the same mom, different dad, and they didn't want her mothering us. Okay. So they kept us separate. Yeah, it was hard.
- [27:06]
Interviewer
So you were removed at 10?
- [27:08]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yes, it was a few months before I was 10. We went to our first foster home, Betty and Richard. They were amazing. We lived on a peacock farm.
- [27:18]
Interviewer
Wow.
- [27:19]
Kimberly Gibbs
And it really made a difference to me. I actually have a peacock tattoo. We were only there for about four or five months, and I always remembered them. I think that was because they were my first foster home. I recently reconnected with them a couple years ago, and it's been really great. Unfortunately, Richard passed away. He was, like the closest thing I had to a father, and I actually just saw him this last weekend, Betty, before I came here. So after that, we went to a second home, and it was not good. There was a lot of essay and the home by the foster father. So you can get good foster homes, you can get bad foster homes.
- [28:00]
Interviewer
And what was the reason that they removed you from the first one?
- [28:03]
Kimberly Gibbs
Because they wanted us closer to town so we could do visitations with our biological parents.
- [28:08]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [28:09]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah. So they. Even though they removed us because of the child abuse and the child essay and the parent on child essay, they still forced us to do visitations with both our biological father and our biological mother, despite the pending charges. So at this point, when they found out about the essay that was taking place in the foster home, we were immediately removed, and I actually moved back to Topeka, Kansas, where I'm from. And that's when we met the woman that would eventually adopt me, and that's Candy. My mom adopted us about three years after she got us, but she got us right before we turned 10 years old. And that's when the court cases started really taking place. And at this point I had no idea this was being televised. I had no idea it was on the news that he was going through like this super serious investigation. And I came back, I had already lived there. I was born and raised in Topeka. And then I left. And then when I came back, all my friends that I knew at my previous elementary school actually ended up going to the same middle school I went to or they went to the same elementary school they had transferred schools or any something like that. And I was in fifth grade and people were like, where did you go for a year and a half? Where have you been? And I was like, what do you mean? They're like, well, your last name is all over the news. Is that your father? And so these were hard conversations no 9 or 10 year old should ever have.
- [29:41]
Interviewer
What do you even say at that point?
- [29:44]
Kimberly Gibbs
I mean, I'm an open book, but my sisters weren't. So like I was able to talk to friends that I knew very well. But not everybody knew. Like the teachers knew because I remember like most kids when you're doing that book, it, they were reading like easy books where my mom was giving me self help books and by my mom, I mean my adopted mom. But so I was reading books of about like a child called it by Dave Pessler. I was reading that and other kids were reading like Judy Blume. And so I, I teachers knew that things were hard for us and there would be times where kids would bombard us with questions and they would be like, you can't do that here. There'd be times that like kids would kind of make fun of me because I was a foster kid. And they'd be like, you're bad news because you're a foster kid. And that's. There's such a stigma against foster kids where people are like their trouble, you know, they went through this and that, so obviously they're not going to be a good person. And that's not fair. Foster kids, because what has happened to us, what's been done to us does not define us. And I think that, that, that's really important to lay out to kids when they go into the system. What's been done to you does not define you. It may be hard right now and you may feel like it does, but it's what you do with it that makes who you are. And so when I was about 10 years old, that's when the trial started. And at this point, I was already adapting to, like, what's a holiday? Like, I had my first Christmas and birthday party at 10 years old. And I'll never forget, only one person showed up to my birthday party, but it was a birthday party. Okay. So, like, I was excited, and I. I was enjoying all these things. And I had mixed feelings, though. And at 10 years old, I was angry because I was like, these are things that I should have had for a long time. And I. I wasn't, like, the best kid, but I wasn't, like, absolutely the worst. But now that I've gotten older, I realize the things that I did to my mom, like, the way that I treated her was because of the way I was treated by my parents. And. And, yes, I feel bad for it, but I also know that that was part of my healing journey I had to take in order to be who I am now. But the abuse by my father just didn't stop. It didn't. So when we were dealing with this court case, we were actually having to go testify against him, and we were still being forced to do visitations at this point, which is crazy. Yeah. Like, when my mom tried, she's like, why are they being forced to do these visitations? They don't want to go.
- [32:19]
Interviewer
And how long were the visitations?
- [32:22]
Kimberly Gibbs
They would be, like, an hour.
- [32:24]
Interviewer
And they would be in public places.
- [32:25]
Kimberly Gibbs
I'm assuming, like, with a therapist. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [32:28]
Interviewer
How was the experience in the visitations? Like, would he be manipulative and act like normal or.
- [32:35]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yes and no. So, like, he was always big into music. So growing up, I remember, like, he played the guitar, and so he bought. He would buy us things, which. Which is weird because we grew up in a home where that wasn't allowed. So for him to revert away from the religion and buy us Walkmans and things like that. I actually have a photo of one of the Walkmans, because my grandmother, we would be able to visit when we were growing up. So this is actually him. This is my biological father right here and my biological mother.
- [33:07]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [33:08]
Kimberly Gibbs
And so here I am with my twin sister and some of my other siblings, and my biological grandmother would take photos of us when we would go visit. So this would be. This is me before I was taken away, and this is me when I visited. And this was shortly after he gave us this Walkman. This was when I was about 10.
- [33:27]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [33:29]
Kimberly Gibbs
And I've never was able to listen to music outside of what he played. This was the first time I'd ever been able to make given a gift without him burning it or breaking it. Because when we were younger, if we were given, like, Barbies or anything like that, it wasn't allowed. So he would just trash it or break it or burn it in front of us. And that's very standard for him. So whenever we. We would get something, he would burn it, but then we would also get in trouble, and he would burn me. So I actually have, like, burn marks on my skin right here, as you can see, and on my legs from, like, if we were to take, like, holiday snacks from school or if we brought home Valentine's Day candy, that was our punishment. Like, we should have known better, because God doesn't allow those things is kind of the way that he looked at it. And so going from that environment to having being able to have birthday parties was. It was life changing, but it also was heartbreaking. And I didn't realize that at that time that, like, even though I was happy at the moment, there was a lot of anger at the same time. Like, why did I miss out on these things? And I. The form of punishments, obviously, were very different. So I would always lie to my mom because I was always afraid that I wouldn't end up hurt or I would end up hurting her. So up until high school, I had a massive habitual lying problem. And it wasn't because I was doing it on purpose or I was being manipulative, but it was a coping mechanism for me personally, and I'm very honest about it, because I did become a foster parent myself, and I struggled with that with one of my foster kids. And that's when I recently learned that that's actually a sign of abuse. I had no idea. And so when we went to court about two weeks before the sentencing, my biological father, allegedly, I have to say allegedly, because there's actually no proof, but they suspect he broke into my adopted mom's home. So we had just came home from Girl Scouts, and the back door was broken. And the only room that was trashed was my adoptive mom's. Like, our room had been searched through, like, our underwear drawers, and the only thing they found was, like, fishing gear, which was a big thing in our biological home was, like, fishing. Like, he always went fishing. And we had seen him not far from our house a couple days before this. And my mom reported it. She was like, hey. He drove past and he was looking at our house. I saw him. I was home at lunch, and that's not okay. And then we thought we had seen our biological, older half brother at our house, like a day after that. So it just. And we had made these reports. And then two days later, after, you know, I had seen our half brother and my mom had seen my biological half brother three days prior, our home got broken into. And so we ended up having a. Two weeks later, he ended up being sentenced, but he was given a plea deal. So he only received 16 years and was only charged for one of us. Yeah. And then they dropped all charges against my biological mother. They gave her two options. They said, you can get all six kids back, but you have to divorce him and can't have anything to do with him, or you can stay with him and you have to sign over all your rights. And that's what she chose to do. She stayed married to him.
- [37:00]
Interviewer
And I think she was scared.
- [37:03]
Kimberly Gibbs
You know, as much as I would like to say yes, no.
- [37:07]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [37:07]
Kimberly Gibbs
I think she thrives off of that because she grew up in that type of environment. She also was abused as a child. And I have this theory because my biological father, you know, abused his sisters as they were growing up that you can repeat this cycle. And I think he was abused in ways as well by his biological father. And I feel like when you get someone who's been abused, you can either become an abuse e or an abuser or neither, and you heal. But I don't think that he had the support and I don't think she had the support because they grew up in small town living and my biological parents are allegedly, like, fifth cousins or something like that. Like, so, like, they're both. Their families are somehow related. And so they both grew up in this entire environment throughout their families where this was normalized and incest was also normalized. Like, my grandmother allowed it to happen, my biological mother's mother allowed it to happen. And I strongly believe if you're both abused and you be. One becomes an abuser and the other one becomes abused and they get together, it becomes catastrophically chaotic. And then that's when you start repeating patterns and it becomes generational trauma all over. And so I will say my sisters and I are the first generation in this family to actually break it. And, like, wholeheartedly, like, between all of the different types of abuse. And that's something, like, I have got to say, like, I am so proud of my sisters. And I, all three of them and myself have worked really hard, and it's not been easy but that's because we all continued living in that chaos even after we got adopted. And for me personally, it took hold of my life in ways that I didn't know. It was hard enough growing up to be a teenager. You know, you're trying to find love and, and by love, you know, like in high school, you think you're in love, but you're not. And. And I didn't know that. I didn't know what love was like. And I love my mom, but my mom was never married. The one that adopted us was actually the first woman in the state of Kansas to adopt more than two children alone. So she adopted me and my twin sister and little sister by herself on May 3rd in 2002. My biological father was convicted in 2001 for 16 years. And they dropped all charges against my biological mother and my biological half brother. At the time, they said our biological half brother did what he did because of what our biological father did. So that's kind of what we grew up in. And then we get adopted. And life seemingly was good. But I really struggled. I had a very large anger problem. Like, I would have these mood swings and I couldn't like, talk to my therapist because they weren't asking like the right questions. And I now know that as an adult, they were just like, okay, why did you lie to your mom? It wasn't like, why are you doing this? They never really dug deeper into the problem. She never really asked about her past or like concentrated on my anger issues towards them. And that maybe my anger wasn't really towards my mom, but maybe it was more surface level, service level. Yeah. And so. And I carried that in my 20s. I carried that into adulthood, into my relationships. And I was 17 years old. And I remember I had a great boyfriend at the time. He's actually now my husband, and we date about four months. My husband and I dated in high school then, and I got MRSA in my bloodstream and I was hospitalized for about two weeks in the hospital and I kept getting sick and at. I had been bleeding rectally for years, and they kind of chalked it up for eating dog food at such a young age. For most of my life, I was very malnourished and I struggled with food. So I was seeing the doctor and they were like, it's ibs.
- [41:19]
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- [41:46]
Kimberly Gibbs
And then I got sick with mrsa, and I kept getting sick afterwards, and they're like, well, it's ibs. And then you had this really bad infection in your blood, so you're just gonna always get sick. And so I kind of lived in this, like, angry stage because then I was sick all the time. I would always get, like, upper respiratory infections. I just would always get it chalked up. Oh, well, you were born premature, you were malnourished. You had a lot of health problems because you weren't getting the proper care as an adult or as a child. And when I was about 18 years old, I let that anger get the best of me, and I broke up with who's now my husband, and I met someone else, and he was very abusive. I was in a very, very abusive relationship. We would be on and off, and my mom kicked me out when I was 18, and I moved in with him. And because of how abusive it was, I actually ended up moving back in with my biological mom at 18. And that was probably the biggest mistake I could have made. I tried to re. Establish a relationship with Della, my biological mom, and I found out while I was living there, she was cheating on my biological father while he was in prison.
- [42:57]
Interviewer
So when you moved back in with her, it was just you two in the house at this point? Okay.
- [43:01]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah. Yeah. I had an older half brother living there for a little bit, but he ended up moving out. And so it was just her and I.
- [43:08]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [43:10]
Kimberly Gibbs
And it was really. Because I didn't have anywhere to go, and I was just so angry at my adopted mom.
- [43:15]
Interviewer
Right.
- [43:16]
Kimberly Gibbs
That I just went there.
- [43:17]
Interviewer
Because of the relationship you were in.
- [43:19]
Kimberly Gibbs
Right.
- [43:20]
Interviewer
Did the. Were the dynamics any different with your biological mother at this point? Like, did you guys have any type of, I guess, better relationship? No.
- [43:31]
Kimberly Gibbs
No, I. I think I wanted that.
- [43:33]
Interviewer
Right.
- [43:33]
Kimberly Gibbs
And I think anybody does. Like, you really, like, just are searching for who you are and figuring out. I. I tried so hard, but have you ever been around somebody where you look at them or they do something? They could breathe, and you're just like, you're doing it wrong. Please stop. And I know that sounds bad, but that's how it felt. Like, every time I would just see her breathing, I'm like, oh, it's annoying. Stop. And I know what that means. I know that means, like, she would stop breathing, but it just, like, everything she would do would just annoy me. And I quickly learned that I. I could only stay for a couple months. I immediately moved out because one of the requirements would be that I would have to go with her and go visit my biological father. And I did once. I did when I was 18. And that was gross. Like, I did get, like, a photo taken with him because they were like, oh, you have to do that. But when you're in a fight or flight mode and you don't have anywhere else to go, like, what are you supposed to do? And then that's when I was able to save up. And I immediately moved out. And I was still in the relationship that was abusive. And because I had moved in with my biological mom, I ended up reestablishing a relationship with my older half brothers. And that includes the one that was essaying me when I was young. And when I moved out, I continued those relationships. I. I tried to still create this image of what a family looked like, you know, because my adoptive mom and I didn't have the best relationship because of the choices I made. And I know that now, and I understand why she did what she did, because sometimes you have to learn the hard way. And I am queen bee for doing that. And at 18 years old, it was in July of 2008, I received a call from my older half brother, Jason, and he asked me at 4am If I could kick out my roommates. And I was like, no, I can't do that. He's like, well, I need to talk to you because Della and Danny are getting a divorce, and that's my biological parents. And I was like, well, I know that. And he's like, well, I need to talk to somebody about it. Okay, sure. Why don't you come here and we can go for a walk. At the time, my boyfriend Mar thai, and he knows that, like, I have having this relationship with him, like, in the aspect of sibling trying to reestablish. He was kind of annoyed because he's like, it's 4:00am you know? So he walks out with me. He's like, I'm going to my grandma's. I'm already awake. I'm not happy. You guys are going to probably sit here and talk, but Darius is asleep, so why don't you guys take it outside? And I remember Jason, my older half brother, coming up and giving me this really weird hug. It didn't make me feel comfortable. And Martai asked me. He's like, are you okay? I'm like, yeah, yeah, go ahead, go. So we go outside my apartment complex. We're walking around, we get to this ball field and then that's when my older half brother rapes me again at 18 years old. And I have to give out a shout out to William and Andrew Shepard. He and I spoke the other day, actually. I was very excited. We like to play catch up sometimes. He was there in Fort Worth, Riley for training in the military. And he happened to hear me screaming for help and he chased him and William chased my brother off of me and were able to save me from what was happening. And I'll never be able to thank them and for what they did. It was a really hard time for me at 18 because at the same time I was also being beat by my boyfriend at the time. And I had nobody that believed me besides those two men. I dealt with that whole court case alone. And I. And I know now is because when I was younger, up until I was like 17, I lied all the time and so nobody could trust me when it really happened. And they didn't know me because for about a year and a half I didn't have anything to do with my mom or my siblings because I had moved out on my own. And. And I created this constant chaos in my life without realizing it. I was continuing this negative pattern that I was born into because when I was young I had this theory that I was a girl that was born in a burning house. And so when I was finally, finally set free, I thought the whole world was on fire and was out to get me. And that wasn't the case. I was doing that to myself at that point because I was continuing patterns. I was allowing people in my life that had continuously hurt me to continue hurting me. And unfortunately, about six months after I was. I was raped by my half brother. I was kidnapped by my ex boyfriend, Mar Thai and we went on like a high speed chase and we got in a car accident and they were able to get him out. And martai and I, the reason why we worked, or at least I thought we worked, he was also a foster kid and. And I felt that I wanted to be with someone that could be like, oh, I understand what you're going through.
- [48:31]
Interviewer
And I always had that, like.
- [48:34]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah, that connection. Whereas like, I was like, oh, my mom doesn't like him because he's black. No, my mom wasn't a fan of me being with someone who also went through a lot of trauma and hadn't healed yet. And I didn't understand that because one, I think I wasn't a mom and never understood. And it wasn't until I was a mom, until I really, really understood where that she was coming from. And I am lucky to say that Marti and I are now friends. He was able to get the help he needed. He did go to prison. He did get anger management. But that's the thing. The system isn't made for kids to get help, really. It's just made for you to stay alive, to have food, to have a roof over your head. But they don't really have a good system to help you heal. And I want to change that, and so does, you know, and we were young, you know, and I thought that I was healed enough after him and I broke up, I got pregnant. And I have a wonderful 15 year old. She is absolutely amazing. Her name is Liliana, and him. And I didn't work out her dad, but her dad has known me since I was 6. So he knew me before I went to the system. So he knew that, like, he was kind of signing up for a little bit of chaos. We're still best friends to this day. We just, you know, I think our purpose was to have our daughter and that was it. And he accepts that and I accept that. But then I met my youngest daughter's dad, and we have Chloe together, and she's 12. But unfortunately, it was also, again, I ended up in that cycle where it was abusive and I thought I could make it work. And he was also a foster kid, you know, as well, and he was adopted. And so I had this thing for being with people that were broken, and I thought I could fix them. And then I realized at 29 years old, I couldn't continue doing this at this time. I kept getting sick and sick, and I finally found out that I had ulcerative colitis disease, which is an inflammatory bowel disease. And there's a lot of things, including environmental situations like eating dog food and also genetic factors that play in that. But mine is pretty severe. I was not responding to medication. So I don't have my colon, I don't have my rectum, I don't have my large intestines right now. And I have a J pouch, and I'm a J pouch. It is actually my small intestines that's connected to my anus. So they took everything out and they just kind of made a J and then some stitched it and then made a hole at the bottom and connected to my anus. So I go to the bathroom like normal. Unfortunately, I developed Crohn's, and so I have Crohn's really bad in my mouth, and I also have it in my pouch. So actually, in a month on April 30, I'm going back to a permanent ileostomy, and I'm having a barbie butt surgery. So they're going to close everything down down there, and they suspect it's because I was raised for so long on food that wasn't really meant for human consumption and then juices that, like, I just cannot digest food. I do know that my biological aunts also suffer from ibd, so there is also a genetic factor. It's just.
- [51:55]
Interviewer
So then what happens after you get that surgery?
- [51:58]
Kimberly Gibbs
I'll poop in a bag for the rest of my life. My intestines will stick out of my stomach. I've had it before. I just had a lot of complications with it, and I always knew I wanted a J pouch. With ulcerative colitis disease, you can have that. That. But with Crohn's, they just prefer you to have a bag because it can affect anywhere from your mouth to your rectum, whereas ulcerative colitis just is your lower intestines in your rectum. Unfortunately, I've developed other autoimmune health problems at 35, and I think that's because there's a lot of trauma that I went through, and trauma can trigger autoimmune diseases.
- [52:37]
Interviewer
You hold. You store it in the body.
- [52:38]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah, yeah. And I think because at 29, I finally got a divorce from an abusive ex, and I really started my healing journey, and I got back into therapy, got my own medication at 30 years old. I went septic a year later, and my colon was ground beef. I was getting hemorrhoids so bad. I was literally. I was, like, driving one day, and I had a hemorrhoid burst, and I got in a car accident. It was literally consuming my life. And that's when I decided to go ahead and go to the bag and try to heal. But then I start having all these other complications, and, like, I was breaking down all the time because I was so exhausted. I was so sick. And then my therapist is like, you realize that probably a lot of this is because of what you've gone through, because how ironic is it that you ate dog food for a living? Food was not given to you, or you had to use the bathroom in event. And that's where you're struggling is going to the bathroom and eating food and all these other things, or in my mouth. Like, I get ulcers all the time. She's like, I really feel like the Physical issues that you're going through isn't just a genetic factor because, I mean, there is some genetics that play into it. But the reason why I'm not responding is probably a lot because of what I've gone through. And I think that people don't understand that when you go through so many traumatic things, it really does take an effect on you physically. Yeah. And I am living proof that you can heal. But there may still be post child abuse complications, and I don't think that that's discussed enough. I mean, you hear so many times about post surgical complications, you know, when someone has surgery, but there are post traumatic complications, you know, and it's mentally, it's physically. And I feel all the time that my body is taking a wear and tear. I have ankylosis spondylitis, and my bones are fusing together, and it's just another autoimmune disease that stems off of ibd, which is my Crohn's and colitis. And I. I've talked to my rheumatoid arthritis doctor or rheumatologist. Excuse me, and I, 24 7, he's like, you know, you're gonna be hurting, but you've also been in a fight mode, fight or flight, since you were born.
- [55:03]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [55:04]
Kimberly Gibbs
Your whole life. Your whole life, you know, and it is heartbreaking. And. And there's just been so much about this family that I have had to carry. My biological father got out in 2016, so he's out of prison now. And about six months after that, my aunt, his sister, murdered my uncle in Leavenworth, Kansas. And I really feel like the reason why she did it is that in 2008, she told me that he had did things to her too. And is she in jail now? She's in prison.
- [55:39]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [55:39]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yep, she's in prison. She's serving life because she did. She did murder him. She went, like, on a big Facebook rant, and I'll never forget it. I went on that day when she had posted it, and I was like, don't do anything crazy, Aunt Barb. And sure enough, I get a call from the police, and then my. My other cousin, because I have relationships with other family members, and my cousin's like, you're not gonna believe what happened. And then the cops show up at my house, and they're like, we're actually looking for her. They found her in Burlingame, Kansas, where my biological grandmother lived. They found her there.
- [56:11]
Interviewer
So do you still have a relationship with her? Do you talk to her?
- [56:14]
Kimberly Gibbs
My Biological aunt?
- [56:15]
Interviewer
Yeah, the one that's in.
- [56:16]
Kimberly Gibbs
No, no, no. Because as soon as, like, my biological father got out of prison, it was crazy how so many people turned and became best friends with him. And I thought that was weird. While I remember when she went on her Facebook rant, she was accusing my uncle of doing the things that she said my biological father did. And she did have really bad ulcerative colitis. Like, my aunt wasn't, like, really all there. And it breaks my heart because when she killed my uncle, like, she had already been through a lot. My aunt lost one son in the war, and then my other cousin was born, and he was healthy, but then he got meningitis, and so he's. He was pretty much 18 month old. 18 months old for the rest of his life. He was 28. He had gallbladder surgery and died. And so when this happened with my uncle, she tried to blame her other son, my. My other cousin, who was all the way in Texas at the time, and they tried to drag him in it. And she had my biological father as her, like, attorney like, to help him because he studied law while he was in prison. And that was in 2017. And then in 2018, my biological father made headlines again. He was in the news again because he was able to get his own court case to the Kansas Supreme Court. And some of us had to go retestify about what happened to us as children because he was trying to get his sex crimes overturned. And that was hard because we thought we. We constantly had outran that. We were like, okay, we're good. Like, we're fine. Because then when he got out, I knew immediately I was going to stay away. Like, I didn't want anything to do with them. My grandmother had turned her back on us. She immediately started becoming obsessed with him again. And I was like, I want nothing to do with him. Well, unfortunately, we had gotten letters from him that we thought were actually real court letters. They were showing that, like, I had a warrant out for my arrest. And some of us got, like, fake affidavits, and they looked legit.
- [58:29]
Interviewer
Right.
- [58:30]
Kimberly Gibbs
But we found out he had been coming to our homes and dropping them off in the mailbox. Ex your biological father? Yeah. So unfortunately, like, it's one of those things that I've kind of acknowledged that I will probably have to continue always, just kind of watch out for myself. But things didn't become really scary until 2021 and 2021 KBI called us, which is the Kansas Bureau of Investigation. And I have to say, allegedly but they allegedly called to say that they felt that allegedly our biological parents murdered a woman. And the woman they had in question was someone that my biological father had actually broke up with. Our biological mom to be with this woman moved in with our biological father, and he ended up getting engaged to her and they were going to have this life together. Well, she ended up calling it off because he was abusive. And then they randomly found this woman's woman passed away. Her door was locked. And, and some of the stuff I, I know is because I've. I've family or friends that told me because it's a very small town, small town drama, you know, and when KBI called me, they said, we allegedly suspect that he did it, but he's a very good attorney and he's very good at what he does. So I had other family members calling me saying, like, we're genuinely afraid that he did this. And we think that your biological mom helped because the same day that she was murdered, this woman, our biological mother, moved back in with him. And that's suspicious. And he, they wouldn't allow him to come in again. He's a very good attorney. He studied law while he was in prison and he's very good at it. He just can't legally become an attorney for anybody else because he is a felon. Right. So he immediately shut down, wouldn't let anybody in except our biological mother. And to this day, like, recently I went to physical therapy and my physical therapist is like, you look like somebody I know. And so she had mentioned who it was. And I'm like, oh, that's, that's my cousin. She's like, oh, my God. And so I told her, you know, I was like, do you know this other person? She's like, is that your biological father? And I said, yeah. She's like, everybody thinks he's a murderer. And I was like, like, probably, you know, like, like. And so it is like one of those things where everybody kind of acknowledges he did it because it's the only person that makes sense because he had a key to the house and he was supposedly. He did go on Facebook. Like, it's one of those small town research things that people looked up and he was going on about how he called it in and he was the person that was so concerned about her. But everybody knows what he's capable of and everybody knows that he had already been beating her and that all these things were happening. Unfortunately, that crime is still unsolved. And that's unfortunate because her son deserves to have that justice. And so does that woman. But unfortunately, I think cause of death, do you know, blunt force trauma.
- [61:36]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [61:37]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah. I spoke to someone that had spoke to an officer there, a family member, and there was blood everywhere. They said it was on the ceiling. It was. Was literally everywhere on the walls. She was beat bad. She was just. It was very unfortunate. It was someone that was very angry.
- [61:56]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [61:56]
Kimberly Gibbs
And the door was locked, so somebody had to have a key because they couldn't get in without. There was no force entry. Yeah. And that's the scary thing.
- [62:06]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [62:07]
Kimberly Gibbs
And so when that came out, I mean, they let us know it up front, like, hey, you and your adopted mom should probably get some ring cameras or just take extra precautions. So we do. And that. That has been, like, the number one biggest issue, I think, for some people with me coming up and telling my story is like, aren't you afraid of him?
- [62:30]
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- [62:59]
Kimberly Gibbs
But I realize now that, like, she was afraid of him, but I don't have to be. I can take, like. I don't want to say I can take care of myself, because that's not the case, but I. I know what the truth is, and, like, if that means I'm protecting other women in the process of doing so, then I'm gonna do that. Like, I know that he's dying. He has follicular lymphoma now, so he has cancer. And he's had, like, several surgeries. Like, I'll never forget a couple years ago, it was about five years ago or six years ago, he had a quadruple bypass surgery, and he thought he was dying. So he literally reached out to all my siblings except me, because I don't have anything to do with them. But some of my siblings, even my sisters, went and celebrated his, like, passing. And he's still alive today. Like, that's the kind of person he is. He'll manipulate any situation to make it seem like he needs to have everybody back. And I. I just don't partake in that. I just think that people need to understand that people that are capable of Doing this to children, they're a different type of person and. And not a good kind. They will continue chasing after their victims. And so I just. I'm ready to speak my truth and come publicly about this because it was such a big case in 1999. But they didn't cover this part. They didn't cover, like, the fact that he would, like, like, light my skin on fire or he would beat us really bad. They only talked about the essay, and then he was only convicted for one of us. And so I felt like for a very long time, I was robbed of my justice. And I think the only way for me to write that is by using this negative experience and giving him, like one F you before he dies and make it something powerful, something so positive and so impactful that I can make it impactful for other victims as well. And that's why I. I want to create a foundation called Fostering their Futures, because I recognize now the abuse that my father put me through. It paved a way for me to continue that pattern into adulthood where I got into abusive relationships. And I continued that until I was 29. And one day I woke up and I noticed that my kids were being affected. They. They weren't abused, but they saw me being abused, and I left. I. I didn't give him a second chance. I was only married a year, and I immediately filed a divorce, asked for nothing, and I started healing. And then I met my husband Dylan, who has healed me in more ways than any other person in my life. And I think that's because he taught me how to take no shit. And he's a good dad. He's such a good dad. And I can't have kids naturally anymore. We have to do ivf. He didn't care. I got sick six months into us knowing each other. I went septic. And I was like, I'm gonna lose my. My booty hole, so that's not going to be open up for business. And I. He stuck by me. And then I got blood clots, and I almost died, and I had twisted bowels, and I almost died, and he did not care. I was pooping in a bag, and he. We got engaged during my. My process of my surgeries, I had to have surgeries every three months. And during the first and the second one, he. We got engaged, and I started having seizures a month after we got married. And they. They were throwing out terms like Parkinson's or like, maybe you have cancer, because I have lung nodules in my lungs, and he does not care. He knows and he's the one that's like, helped really heal me. And to find someone that understands me better than I do, I didn't even think that was possible. And I think that's something that people who go through traumatic events like myself or who have been in really bad domestic violence situations, you never really think that you're going to be able to find your person. But I wasn't looking. I was literally just working out every day. I was running four miles a day and I would stop at his job and get a drink. And I knew him because we dated in high school. And you know, one day I texted him. I thought it was going to be like a one night stand and I just never left. But he's really the reason that I'm, I'm able to tell my story now. I think that like finding someone, a man that loves the good, the ugly and doesn't care and he's just like that supportive. Like I think people dream of that. And like I can, I'm living proof that soul mates are real. Like, I feel like I've known him forever. I mean, obviously I have to an extent, but like he knows what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling. And I've never had that with anybody. My mom, no parent, nobody. And I have two great kids, you know, like, I'm so lucky. But they did inherit autoimmune problems from like my biological parents. And so I, I do have anger now towards my biological parents for that because I have to watch my kids suffer and that's hard. That's a different type of pain. And so like people ask me like, do you, are you angry at your biological mom? Do you forgive her? I think I can, I can confidently say that's again where you have to have compassion and understanding. And I have compassion that she went through it, but I don't have understanding. So I don't think I can forgive her. And I think that, that anybody else, you know, they're like, oh, that's the Christian thing to do. You should always be able to forgive and forget. I'm never going to be able to forget.
- [68:50]
Interviewer
I don't think that you have to forgive. You definitely shouldn't forget. I think that the only thing that matters is you and your family now.
- [68:59]
Kimberly Gibbs
It is.
- [69:00]
Interviewer
And you know, as long as you're in a place where like that anger isn't consuming you, then it doesn't really matter. You don't have to forgive anyone. And it's not about as long as you're not holding like, like that grudge or that burden inside where it's like eating you up.
- [69:15]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah.
- [69:16]
Interviewer
But even if you were, that's something you can deal with and heal on your own, like with therapy and with your own, you know, just work within yourself. But that has nothing to do with. You don't owe anyone else anything, any forgiveness or.
- [69:31]
Kimberly Gibbs
No, and my husband tells me that all the time. Like, I think that also stems back to like, like when I got adopted, like it was a much better home. But there are things that like, maybe I necessary wouldn't do myself as a parent and I definitely still stand on that. Like, my mom did her best being a single mom. But one of the most heartbreaking things is that my twin sister and I got separated. She actually went back into the system and she kind of tells her own story. So I'm not going to explain that. But she did go back in the system and was in foster care for four years after we had already gotten adopted. So I was separated from my twin sister. And that's hard. And so about, I don't know, 10 years ago, we decided to become neighbors. I was still with my ex and she was with her husband. So we were next door neighbors and we got very close and I think that was the closest we had ever been was in our 20s. And when I go, went through my divorce, you know, that was really difficult. And she was like one of the of the biggest rocks I had. And to this day, like they're so supportive. Like honestly, both of my little sister and my twin sister are some of the best people I know. And like, I'm so proud of where they're at in their journey. But we have all struggled as adults in some sort of ways and had to get help in different ways. Like, I am still in therapy. I think everybody should be in therapy. My kids are in therapy. And that's, that's, that's partially because they know my biological family. My kids do because like before my father got out, I had a relationship with my grandmother and then she left us when he got out, you know, and she was changed her mood. Then all of a sudden it was, oh, my son's perfect. He would never do this. And it was just, it was hard on my oldest specifically because like, she was probably the closest and that was probably the favorite out of the grandchildren. But I think the hardest part was, was my grandfather. Him and I were extremely close and he was the stepfather of my biological father. So he had no biological relationship. But they married when I was one, so he's like all I knew. And they were kind of like my escape when we were allowed to go see them because, like, my grandmother really did try to erase any image of what was happening in the home. And she continued to do so. You know, like, she would act like everything was okay. And I really feel like, like I don't know if it was because she was also abused, because I do know that she started having kids at 14. Like she had a sister who had kids that are my age. And So I have second cousins that are my age. They're like 35, 34. My biological father is like 65. So there's like a 30 year age gap between her and her sister. So, like my biological family is kind of like one of those small town stories that you kind of hear where people are like, they're a little weird. Yeah. I mean, that's where I'm from, but that doesn't define me. And I, I am really proud of where we're all at. But I will say it's taken years, absolutely, to get here to talk about my story. And I will say about five months ago, that's when I decided to share because my therapist recommended it. And I came across my Aunt Pam and she found my tick tock. And that's when she informed me she was the first victim when she was 9 years old, that my biological father had started on her originally and then went and proceeded. He has, she has two other siblings. And so that's when I found out he's actually been doing this for 50 years and has been getting away with it. And then she informed me, like in their local town where he lives now, or like another town nearby where he lives, they actually don't like serving him because he keeps trying to pick up young girls. And then that has pushed me more so to tell my story because he is out on prison, out of prison, and he is trying to pick up young girls that are younger than 16. Burnett with short hair. And I mean, you've seen the pictures. I was, I was young, I had short hair and I was Burnett. Like, he, he very much has a type, you know, and that's what scares me. And so if that means I tell my story and he hears it, then so be it. Because nothing I say is, is going to change my mind that he is not a dangerous man, because he is. And I think for all women's safe safety, I owe that to the younger version of myself to make sure other women are aware of what he is capable of. And also so other survivors and Other current victims know they're not alone.
- [74:31]
Interviewer
Absolutely.
- [74:31]
Kimberly Gibbs
Because I felt so alone. Even though I had siblings, I felt so alone.
- [74:36]
Interviewer
Had no support and no help you had. I feel like in situations like that, especially when there's, like. Because you said that there was, like, outside people involved, right? Like from the church and stuff that knew and just weren't helping.
- [74:47]
Kimberly Gibbs
Correct.
- [74:48]
Interviewer
So I think in situations like that, it goes beyond just the family not being there. So then it just feels like, oh, this is a lost cause. Like, if they're not gonna help, no one's gonna help, because these are other people normalizing things that aren't normal and aren't okay.
- [75:03]
Kimberly Gibbs
Oh, yeah, 110%. And I think that, like, even our friends new, like, shout out to Shannon. Because, like, my. My best friend in elementary school is still friends with me to this day. We're not like, the best of friends, but, like, we still know each other. We still talk. It's just because life happens. It's nothing bad. But, like, even my best friend, now, I've known her since I was 9 years old. And it's crazy because she was stuck with me through the trial and everything like that. And then the world is just so small. Like. Like the fact that I have a child with somebody who I've known since I was 6 years old that knew what I was going through then. And even my other best friend, like, she is related to my first foster mom. And so, like, she knew my story before. Like, she even knew me. And now we're best friends. And. And to me, it's like, people. People look at me and they're like, I don't know how you're so strong. And I was like, I just don't know how I survived, you know? And when they say that, like, I don't know how you're strong. It's because of the people I surround myself with now. Like, I will be very honest, there were times that were very dark that, like, I wanted to die. And I did try to kill myself when I was, like, 18 or 19 years old, when I was getting beat by my ex boyfriend. But it also had been after I had been just raped by my half brother. I was going through it.
- [76:25]
Interviewer
Did he go to prison after that?
- [76:27]
Kimberly Gibbs
Three years.
- [76:27]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [76:28]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah, there was three years. And then we had to do a retrial because there was. He got out to a technicality, something to do with his, like, attorney at the time. And the two men that had. Had saved. Saved me, one of them was, like, away, I believe, out on service. And then they were really concerned about getting everybody back because the person that could testify that Jason was there was my ex, Martai. And again, like, this is like three and a half years after this. He was currently serving time for kidnapping me. So they could not use him as part of the case. So they said, well, we want to do a retrial, but we think it's best if he just takes a plea deal. So he took a plea deal, time served, and then has to sign up for the sex offender list for 12, 25 years. Unfortunately, though, I've had other siblings become victims of his since then, and I'm really proud of them because they've moved forward. But he is still also a very dangerous person. And that's what angers me, is that these people are out here, even though they've been caught by the law, even though they've served time, and they are still able to get away with what they're doing. And I. I can't live with that quietly. No, I can't.
- [77:43]
Interviewer
And I think too, you know, everyone has a voice for a reason, and I think it should be spoken out about and there should be no fear in that. You know, I think that it serves as a form of awareness and protection. And then like you said, too, for other survivors, because there's so many people that experience, you know, child abuse and sexual abuse, and it's within the family. And like I said, I think a lot of times people will hear about these cases or these things on, you know, documentaries, and it's very easy to think, oh, that could never happen to me or my family or my child. But you really never know.
- [78:21]
Kimberly Gibbs
Oh, a thousand and ten percent.
- [78:23]
Interviewer
In a lot of cases, I think it is generational, but in some cases it can just happen and it's sick and it needs to be talked about.
- [78:31]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah, I. I definitely agree. And I think it's one of those things where, like, when I talk to my other siblings, I'm like, Like, you're allowed to be a silent survivor. That's perfectly fine. You don't have to carry that burden. I. I don't feel like it's a burden because I feel like it's a purpose I have and you're able to.
- [78:47]
Interviewer
Turn it into something good you're able to correct. I think if you're able to take something that's happened to you, any sort of event, traumatic event, anything, and you're able to bring awareness to that and speak out about it and then help other people and yourself along the way, because I do Think by speaking about it, while it is hard and draining, I think it also is therapeutic and healing because I think every time you speak about almost heals you in another way. It makes you stronger to acknowledge that these things happen, but that they don't define you like you said. And the fact that they can serve other people and help other people is so incredible. Like, the fact that you're able to take something so dark and make it light for other people is something that is not small. That's a huge thing.
- [79:39]
Kimberly Gibbs
I appreciate that and I, I do hear that a lot. And, and one of the things I want to make clear is that yes, my story is very traumatic, but I don't want it to take away from anybody else's story. And the reason why I say that and people are like, well, how can you say that? Like, what I went through was rough, but nothing like that. I'm like, because at the end of the day, even though the cause is different, the effect is the same. Yeah, it was traumatic. So even if, like, if somebody like recently had someone come in, they're like, the most traumatic thing that's happened to me is a car accident. I'm like, but it was still traumatic, was it not?
- [80:08]
Interviewer
Right.
- [80:09]
Kimberly Gibbs
Like that's, that means that you're right. Yeah. And, and, and, and you can still complain, you still have feelings. And at the end of the day, if that's the most traumatic thing that you've gone through, then yes, I'm going to listen. And I think being able to carry that acknowledgment also I think helps people healed also because a lot of people will get stuck in that victim and survivor mode. And I think that at some point you have to learn how to become, go from victim to becoming the survivor.
- [80:38]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [80:39]
Kimberly Gibbs
And I think you have to be able to remove yourself out of that victim stance and be, learn how to become that survivor. And sometimes people do that silently and that's fine for me. It has been at first silent, but I didn't feel completed. I felt like I wasn't getting enough done. And then my therapist recommended, why don't you talk about it? Like see if you. And then my twin sister and I went on a tick tock live and somebody came on and she said it was the first time she's ever talked about it and that just like fixed a part of me, like, okay, so like I can make a difference. And my kids were like, I'm so proud of you. And I didn't really wasn't ready to come forward until I talked to my kids, too, because this isn't just my story I'm sharing. This is. Was my family. You know, I had to make sure my sisters were okay with it.
- [81:24]
Interviewer
That ripple effect, too.
- [81:26]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah. Yeah. And my kids, when they looked at me, they're like, you are the best mom. Wholeheartedly. You should do this. And I remember I didn't used to have that support. I used to have people that were like, why are you living in that? Like, you just need to focus on the future and not talk about that stuff. But for me, like, I just didn't feel like I was moving with a purpose. And so when I was 29 years old, I was like, I gotta work on myself. I gotta, you know, deal with what the real issue is. And at that time, I was in an abusive marriage, and I was like, why am I doing this? And I looked in the mirror and I saw Della, which is my biological mom. And I was like, I cannot continue this pattern. I was broken. I was sad. I was finding excuses for him and excuses for my own behavior. And so when I left, I really concentrated on healing. And I think that's when my body started breaking down, because it had constantly been in fight or fight mode. That when I finally started healing, that's when my body's like, okay, I'm tired.
- [82:24]
Interviewer
Right. It, like, catches up.
- [82:25]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah. And I think one of the ways that I've. I've healed a lot is by sharing my story. And. And even though that doesn't fix me, like, my health problems, it fixes my mind, and it helps give me a purpose. Because I. I am technically disabled. I. I cannot work. I have seizures now. And I have a lot of everyday pain, just in general. And I've had numerous surgeries. Obviously, I'm having a massive one coming up. But I also have taken time to find things that I enjoy. I love coloring with alcohol markers. I absolutely love being a mom. Absolutely love being a mom. And one of the things that I have made sure to make my number one priority is making sure my kids also are healing from the things that I know I have put them through by staying in relationships that I did. Mainly one specifically. And I'm very proud of my kids because they are doing so well in school. They are making awesome strides. And I think a lot of that is because I healed. And so now my kids can heal. And I think that is one of my biggest accomplishments, is just becoming the mom I am today, because for more than half my life, I didn't have that. I did not Know anything different other than trauma and abuse and running away from all my problems until I was about 29 years old. And I want other survivors to know that you are never too old to actually go from victim to survivor. You are never too old. And just because you remove yourself out of a situation doesn't mean that you aren't still a victim. Yeah, because you can continue those cycles, whether it be that you're not hyper vigilant of your own behaviors, or maybe you're not hyper vigilant of others. Because I kept running to other people that were also foster kids or been adopted, people that understood me, thinking that that would fix me or I could fix them. And little did I realize that they were still young, or maybe they weren't young, but they never got the help they needed. And so now I know that, like, it wasn't my fault what happened. Every single situation. Yes, I may have put myself in that situation, but I am not in control of other people's actions. I'm not in control of their own emotions. I have no control over anybody except myself. So that's when I realized I cannot blame myself for what happened when I was young. I cannot blame myself for other people have done to me as an adult. And that includes relationships, friendships, things like that. And ever since I've made these changes six years ago, I feel like I moved better and more with ease. I feel like I can breathe. Even just a couple years ago, I. I lost some friendships that I thought would be the end of me if I lost. And I realize now that they weren't healthy for either one of us. And I think that's just because sometimes people are in your lives for certain moments with a purpose, and maybe that's to educate you for what you don't need. Living with schizophrenia isn't easy, especially when you're not getting relief from some of your symptoms. It can be hard when you're still dealing with symptoms like hearing voices or seeing things that aren't there, and negative symptoms like feeling unmotivated or avoiding social situations. If this sounds familiar, it might be time to talk to your healthcare provider and explore a different kind of schizophrenia treatment. Discover your possibilities at treating scz. And yes, as much as you value them, when you finally, like, lose someone, I think you realize their purpose. You have clarity and I have clarity. Yeah. Yeah.
- [86:04]
Interviewer
And I think just going off of what you said first about your.
- [86:08]
Kimberly Gibbs
You have two daughters, right? I do.
- [86:10]
Interviewer
Okay. Yeah. So, like, with that, you're able to be the mom to them that you never had, which is incredible. And like you said, it's one of those things that in a lot of situations, unfortunately, people do just continue the trauma and continue the abuse. And I give so much credit to people that are able to break that pattern, because when you're raised not knowing anything different, it's only left up to you to figure that out and to fix yourself and show up for yourself. Like, if you think about it, you're the only one that was able to heal yourself. You know, of course there's outside support and help, like, from your husband and you have therapists and. And stuff like that, but you have to continue to fight for yourself and to fight to heal mentally and physically. And it takes a long time. It's not a quick process, and there's a lot of trial and error in that also. Like, that can go as far as not finding the right therapists and having to keep doing that. And then that gets annoying. Like, you don't want to keep showing up for something if it doesn't feel right. So it's like, I think that your story and your journey is a good reminder of that as well. To keep fighting for yourself and to keep showing up for yourself so that you can get to the point of being a survivor and not a victim. Because I think. I don't want to say it's easier to be a victim, but it almost is. Like, it takes less work. And sometimes when you've gone through that much stuff, why would you want to keep working and keep trying? Like, you almost just want to give up and stop.
- [87:35]
Kimberly Gibbs
Right?
- [87:36]
Interviewer
That feels like the easier thing. But I feel like this is a amazing testimony from you of, like, why you shouldn't do that and why you can break those patterns and get out of these cycles that literally were just set up to make you fail. You know, from the start, you didn't have anything different. You weren't taught anything different, so you had to show yourself something different and create this completely new and different family. That wasn't taught to you, essentially.
- [88:02]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah, wholeheartedly. And I think one of the biggest things that, like, I. I did struggle from going from, like, the victim to, like, survivor mode was then, like, I was living my best life when I finally started healing, and then I got sick.
- [88:14]
Interviewer
Right.
- [88:14]
Kimberly Gibbs
And people are like, well, how did you not get angry with that? I'm like, well, I'm not angry because now I know how to support myself through that time. Like, I'm not a victim to my illness. My illness is a victim to my past. Like, that has Absolutely nothing to do with me. It is not my fault. Like, I can't control the genetics. I can't control how the trauma has played out and affected me. But what I can do is move with purpose with what I go through physically. And I can acknowledge like, okay, this has happened not just because of what I've gone through, but also because of genetic factors and things like that. And just do my best every day. I mean, this isn't what I thought I was gonna be doing being disabled at 35 years old, but because I did have a normal life, I was a makeup artist by trade. I absolutely loved doing what I did and then covet hit and then I went back into property management and then I became a marketing director for a third party management group. And then I was working for Home plus care facility. And then my seizures started and I was forgetting things and I was afraid I would have a seizure when I would be driving. And it was very scary. I, I started suffering from something called dystonia, which is a neurological movement disorder. My youngest daughter also has it. And that's when we began to find out through like genetics, I started figuring out my kids inherited a few things. A couple of my sisters and I, our children would get live vaccines and then develop a neurological condition. So like I have one sister, her son has four seizures. My daughter started having seizures in dystonia. So then that's when we did genetic testing and that's kind of when we found out that there's genetic factors that took place with all our health. And that's how we found out our biological parents have some relation and things like that to each other. But to this day, I look at my health problems and say, you know what, at least it's solving problems for my kids. At least now my sisters and I can use that to help our kids. And would I go through that again? 110%. I would go through anything for my children. I would die for my kids. I, I'd resurrect myself if I had to and die for them again. But I am really proud to be where I'm at. But I want other survivors to know, like when you go to the side that survivor part, it is easy to fall back into being a victim. Whether it be from your past or whether it be, let's say you have health problems or something else comes back. You just kind of have to keep going and pushing and reminding yourself that you are a badass woman and that you have made it this far. And like, I will wholeheartedly tell you like, there are times where I do fall back into that victim status because of all my health problems, like having the vulvalist and when I was, you know, I think you down it does. And being 35 years old and not being able to live my passion of working in makeup and, and being able to do marketing and things like that. But that's when I realized, well, maybe that wasn't my purpose. I have to shift my focus from what I've not from not looking at what I've lost, but what can I gain.
- [91:12]
Interviewer
Right.
- [91:12]
Kimberly Gibbs
And then that's when I was like, you know, I've really healed from what I've gone through. That's when I need to start sharing my story. And I've met so many survivors. Even my, my daughters look at me and they're like, you're helping us because we, we've gone through stuff like, not them personally, but they've seen things. And even my, my therapist, she's like, I don't know how you do it. I was like, I don't know either. And, and then my friends, like, I've been talking about them, about how I needed to be more hyper vigilant about my own behaviors and how it's affected my life and how it's played out and like how I ended up in the relationships I did. And so some of my friends have even reached out and they're like, it's really made me take a focus on myself. And I don't know if it's a thing in your 30s, but I'm noticing a lot more people are doing a lot more self reflection. And I cannot tell you enough how important is to do on a daily basis, take time and self reflect. But in order to heal, I think you have to self reflect from the very beginning.
- [92:09]
Interviewer
Absolutely. Yeah. And like I said, your whole story is incredible and you should be so proud of yourself, honestly, because it's not an easy thing to do. Healing is not easy. And sharing a story from beginning to end, the most traumatic parts, it takes a lot of vulnerability and strength to do that. That. And like I said, it can be draining, but it also is so healing and it helps so many people. And not only have you already helped so many people, you know, by sharing your story, you will continue to do that and you don't know where that's going to take you, you know, And I think you also don't know where, what the future holds. There could be a time where you get to do a little bit of everything that you love a little Bit of all of these passions and life doesn't always play out the way that we plan. And that's why I'm like. Like, me personally, I'm like, I'm not a planner. Just like, however it folds out, that's what happens. But I think that there will be a time in your life where you get to do a little bit of everything that you love. And there's no dream that or thought that's too big. So why not be able to have it all, you know? And right now, your focus and purpose might just be sharing your story until you kind of figure out, like, the physical stuff. Because that's a lot.
- [93:17]
Kimberly Gibbs
That's a huge toll.
- [93:18]
Interviewer
And it's a. I feel like right now your priority kind of has to be making sure that you're healthy and you get to a place of health. And you need to allow your body to relax and heal, because for years you didn't have that. Like, even if, like you said, even if you're healing mentally, your body needs that chance to kind of catch up and have that time to heal and just relax. And this might be your way of your body saying, like, let's take it slow for a little, you know, and just. And heal fully. And then you never know what could happen in the future. And if, you know, you might pick makeup back up or whatever else. I was gonna say your makeup looks amazing.
- [93:52]
Kimberly Gibbs
Thank you. I appreciate it. Of course.
- [93:54]
Interviewer
But seriously, I'm so grateful that you wanted to come on here and share your story. And do you care if I take pictures of those pictures that I can put them in the video?
- [94:03]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah, most definitely. And I actually have the link that I would love to share with you that actually shows a picture of him, because I think that's important.
- [94:09]
Interviewer
Yeah, yeah, Whatever. Links, resources, anything that you want, I'll put it in the description. But I know that, like, when you're holding them up, people are probably going to want to see the pictures as well. So I figured I could put them, like, put the pictures in the video as you talk about so people can see it.
- [94:21]
Kimberly Gibbs
But that's great.
- [94:22]
Interviewer
No, this was incredible. Seriously. And I appreciate it so much. And I know everybody listens. Listening and watching does as well. You're going to help a lot of people, so you should know that for sure.
- [94:31]
Kimberly Gibbs
That's my goal. I definitely eventually want to write a book. Because you should.
- [94:35]
Interviewer
Everybody should. I always tell people that come on here when they're thinking about. I'm like, yes, absolutely, if you can talk about it, because I Feel like writing is a little bit easier. It takes more time in a way. But I feel like you're able to get so much thought and detail out when you write something. You definitely should.
- [94:49]
Kimberly Gibbs
Yeah. Well, I just got one of those plot like, like note things so like I can. Yeah. So then that way, like while I'm recovering from my surgeries, I can just talk.
- [94:57]
Interviewer
Oh, I love that.
- [94:58]
Kimberly Gibbs
Cuz I just had surgery on my hand. Cuz my hands were not working for a while so I couldn't write. Okay. So now I just got one of those. And that's kind of like my goal. Plus it gives something for my kids.
- [95:09]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [95:10]
Kimberly Gibbs
You know, to be able to hold on to. And I'm going to gift that to them because like, at some point I. I mean, I. I dedicate my life to my kids and my husband because those three are the most important things in my life. You're right. I'm always forever grateful to my adopted mom for doing what she did. Like, not everybody can do that. And she continued to foster even after she adopted us. She fostered over 50 kids. Wow. Yeah. And she was a peds nurse and she is absolutely phenomenal. She's pretty badass. Like, she definitely gives me hope. And then Betty, my first foster mom, she's the same way. So I've had some really impactful people that may have not been my mother biologically, but are like my mom's. And I also had like my best friend's mom, Bobby as well. That was very impactful in my life. So there are women in my life that kind of gave me guidance on how to be a mom without them being my mom technically or adopting me. So I'm very grateful for everybody that's been here throughout my journey and has been super supportive, whether or not like through my life now, but we're supportive in the past. Like everybody in my life that's been in it has a purpose. And I can't thank you enough for allowing me to be here. I'm a huge fan and this is my first time really sharing my full story.
- [96:24]
Interviewer
Both seriously.
- [96:25]
Kimberly Gibbs
So thank you.
- [96:26]
Interviewer
Of course. Thank you. Was there anything else? Do you think you got it all?
- [96:29]
Kimberly Gibbs
I think I did. I just can't thank you enough. You're really helping me heal. Like little Kimberly. And so Kimberly Fay would be shocked that Kimberly Susanna, because I changed my name when I got adopted, is doing this. And I, I'm. I feel sad for her, her because for many years I lived in a lot of anger and a lot of sadness and I look at her and I'm sad because she deserved better. And. But never in my life did I think I would have two beautiful children and a great, supportive partner. You know, my husband didn't bat an eye. He lost his job recently in December. So I was like, well, do we need to cancel the podcast? And he's like, no, because this is your dream. You need to do this. And to have someone that would do anything for you. I know I'm a lucky girl. So if that means I had to go through what I did to have those two girls, to have my husband, to have my sisters, to have my mom, I would.