A (10:33)

So let me ask you. So it was. So your dad goes to prison for 42 years. Sentenced to 42 years. And that was because he got caught with what he was doing with your sibling, right?

B (10:44)

Yeah.

A (10:44)

And I was just your sister. Your sister and your brother.

B (10:47)

I'll start to go into those details more. So it's kind of like my point of view at the time because I don't know any of what's going on. And then I come to find out because I end up meeting when I was 19. So I find out all of these details later on.

A (11:02)

So growing up, you didn't have any idea.

B (11:05)

They told me he was in Turkey at one point working and he was in prison. Yeah. So this is also like, you'll notice the relationships with my, like, brother and my sister and my mom.

A (11:15)

Okay.

B (11:15)

And. And they were so she was, I think eight or nine when he went to prison. So my brother was 10 or 11.

A (11:23)

Okay.

B (11:23)

So my brother's the oldest of us. It's just us three. And then my mom. So it was always like that throughout my childhood after he left.

A (11:31)

So you moved to Vegas.

B (11:32)

We moved to Vegas. And like I said, I don't know how my mom pulls all these strings to do all this at this age, but she does and she gets us out of there. And I actually, I had a dog. My dad got us a family dog the month I was supposed to be born. So we grew up together. And that dog was like everything to me, important to me in the story. And so we moved to Vegas. Bring the dog. Bring my every. All. All that. We had our car, we u haul it and we just kind of from. We just start living life. And she's working and my brother and my sister are in charge of taking care of me most of the time. That's what, that's what really sucks with my mom because I have a lot of sympathy for her because I think there for a while, if she could have done better she would have, but she was always. She didn't set herself up at such a young age to where she had to just jump straight to working and straight to taking care of us and doing all the things. So she was always gone. So therefore, it was always me with my older brother and my older sister, and they're getting older, and they. I didn't even realize at the time had been exposed to all this stuff. My brother was already kind of a little chaotic. He should have been treated with something with. And we just didn't have the means to do that, to be honest. And his dad and their family weren't about to come in and try and help. So we moved to Vegas, and she starts working. And that's when, like, they both just started really acting out. And it was very much like, about. I feel like the three of them really trauma bonded, and I was kind of left out of the picture. They. I mean, I would just go to school and come back home and really just be to myself for the longest time, because they were also. They. They were smoking, too, at a really young age. I think my brother started smoking at, like, 12 or 13. And then my mom was doing it with them, and then my sister's coming and doing it with them, and then I'm left out, you know, in the living room and doing whatever I can. So I was super just, like, to myself a lot. And I just felt like they didn't really care or want to be around me. And when I would ask about my dad, it was very much just like, he's gone. Or it was all these excuses. He's in prison or he's out of the country, or he's like. With family, it was the most random things that they would tell me. And I eventually just stopped because I knew I wasn't gonna get the answer I wanted from them or the truth.

A (13:57)

Yeah.

B (13:58)

And especially with how they all just started, like, treating me as if at some point in Vegas, they would walk me to school and they would treat me like I had to, like. Like they had to keep me away from him. So I was really confused because I didn't realize he was this bad guy like, that you guys are portraying him to be, but you're also telling me, like, he's just gone. Like, what? It's not adding up to me what is going on. But anytime I try to question them, they were very defensive. They were all just super. Like I said, I think they were so exposed and had to grow up at such a young age. And then with my mom her being so young too when she first had them, it was, I think it was just they just trauma bonded all together and almost just acted like that discipline and parent figure just was not there. And it's sad because I think it has a lot to do with like where they ended up.

A (14:53)

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B (16:43)

so yeah, so there came a point where I was just full on, just being neglected by all of them. My brother and my sister are getting older. They're like teenagers. They're going out, they're doing stuff I'm probably getting so he Went to six. I was six when he got sent to prison, seven when we were in Vegas. So from seven to nine or eight, we were in Vegas, all doing our thing. And they're, like, going into their preteen years and going out and, like, getting exposed to stuff. Just leaving me at home. I'm asking questions or just in my thoughts. Because they also would talk to their dad. Like, they would get phone calls from their dad, and they would. So I was like, what is happening here? Because I didn't have any answers. And not that. Like, I was so young. It's not like they're gonna sit there and be like, hey, like, this is what happened. And I think also they were processing in their own ways, like, what that was, and just talking to each other and just trying to protect me so much from him, I guess. I think they, you know, you try and control something so much, it ends up hurting it at the end. So they're, like, doing their thing. And my brother, he just. He starts doing drugs. He starts sneaking out. He starts just being really disrespectful. And he just feels like. You can tell. He feels like the man of the house because he's the oldest one, and they had to go through all this stuff. It's just us four. So he starts just getting this ego that was just so out of hand. And nobody would really put him in his place. Nobody. My mom was always gone, so him and my sister were, like, best friends. So anytime he. I like, for example, he would come home and we would have to have the whole house cleaned before my mom got off of work. And I was doing most of that stuff. And it was just weird because it was like he was so angry at me, and I did not understand why. He just seemed so mad all the time. He was so distracted. He was barely going in and out of school. And it just sucks because nobody, like, put us helped this kid, to be honest, and he was hurting other people in turn. So it really just started, like, escalating with things. We would. Eventually, we were always in and out of houses, too. Like, my mom was always getting evicted. Then we'd have to go to an apartment. Then we'd be in a big house. Then we'd be in a random condo, and we'd be. So we'd go from place to place, and there, like, my brother and my sister would have to pack everything up, help her move, do the whole thing. I would, you know, be involved, too, but, you know, there's no stability at all whatsoever. And whatever there was it just was not respected because we've been going so long. Like whenever my mom would try to step up, it would be a huge fight. My brother would go crazy. It would like holes in the walls, all this stuff. And once he got to like, I think 14, 15, I feel like, was just where it just got terrible. And we're all in Vegas. Like they're teenagers in Vegas right now. Like, random as hell. And who knows what's going on there? That's not necessarily the place. And we were smack dab in Vegas. It's not like we're in the outskirts of Nevada. So not good influences. He was surrounded by either. So he was only worried about, to be honest, getting messed up and having fun with his friends. He did not give a crap about what happened when he got home. And plus him and my mom are like smoking together, so I feel like she built it builds that ego in his head that he's not really this kid anymore and he is the man of the house and he's doing his thing and he can control this because he's also not getting disciplined for it. He's not getting any repercussions. And my sister, she would just kind of like tag along with him. She wasn't super. She wasn't as like chaotic as him, but they were like so close and they were just at a different age from where I was. So I was like still in elementary school just trying to figure my little self out while they were doing whatever. And so a lot of the abuse started happening with my brother towards me probably like four, three years into Vegas. And like there was this one instance we didn't have. We only had one bedroom for the kids and then one bedroom for my mom. It was a two bedroom house and my sister had the bedroom and my brother would sleep on the couch and my mom would have her room and. And he wouldn't let me. Like I had to sleep on the floor for like a year because he wouldn't let me like sleep on the couch or have a turn or if I wanted to play the video game, it was only on hit. I had to play his game and. Or I had to play with him if mom was gone. And he made dinner, like, I could only eat this certain amount. I can't have any leftovers. I can't have any snacks in the house. I can't do this while him and Destiny are getting high. My sister Destiny are getting high and eating everything and what they want and I can't. I'm getting reprimanded. For whatever I do. So it was, like, a lot of that, just him dictating what I could and couldn't do. And we already had. Didn't have a lot. We had barely anything. We were walking to and from school for the longest time. My mom was walking to and from work for the longest time. So what we did have, like, he took most of it. Our entertainment, the TV, the PlayStation, whatever couch or bed was available at the time. And my sister, I think they felt so bad for her because she got the worst of it, of the abuse. And my sister was kind of more of the mellow one. But what was hard for our relationship is she saw him do this a lot to me. She would not say anything. There was only one time she, like, stood up to him. And I was. I don't know what I was doing, but I accidentally called the police. And I was, like, super young, and I was just going on the phone, and I, like, typed in 911, and we were in this apartment. You know, you type in 911, the cops come, even if you hang up really quick. So I'm, like, panicking, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, I can't believe I just did that. And they knock, and he opens the door, and he's like, nothing. Like, what's going on? And Don's like, nothing. It is what it is. Whatever. And they say, well, everything's fine. Like, because I came up and he was like, well, who called the police? And I finally came out, and I was like, well, I did. And as soon as the police go, we get it settled, they leave, he shuts the door. He, like, gets in my face, and he's like, why the fuck would you do that? That's crazy. Like, you're so stupid. Just yelling at me, saying, like, going off on me because I accidentally called the police, and. And he pushed me really hard. And my sister, like, stepped in and was like, donovan, you need to chill out. That was the most she ever did. And he did a lot more than that with me. And they would always have, like, friends and stuff over, and it sucked because they would use all of our stuff and eat all of our food. And I was the only one that was like, I couldn't hang out. I couldn't play the game. I had to go away because they were all smoking. They were all hanging out. So it was just. It was really hard for me, like, growing up in that type of environment. And I will say my mom feels bad. Like, we talk about it now. And, like, for the longest time, she didn't see it like that. You know, there's different perspectives for everybody. And she was just gone. She tried. When she was around, she would. But at this point in time, she was literally just always working. So I was. This was my life with them because they had to take care of me. And I think because she's. They honed in on how dangerous my dad was, which I completely understand, but he was also locked up, and they just felt like he was always going to come and, like, kidnap me or have a family member come get me. So I think they had a lot of pressure on themselves with taking care of me, and I think it made them resent me a lot more than, like, actually just see me as their little sister. And they just saw who my father was to them, so it was hard. And they always, like. My brother would fight with all of us. He would do a lot of scary things. Like, when they would fight and yell, he'd, like, put knives to his wrist. He would talk about wanting to kill himself all the time. He was doing all these drugs, but nobody was putting a stop to it. And we couldn't really do it because my mom didn't have the means to do so. So for the longest, I just, like, shut down and just dealt with it. I really did. I was just like, this is how it's gonna be. My sister, doesn't she. I would try and talk to her. We'd have good moments, but there was always, like, kind of just shut me down. Like, no, that's not the case. Like, no. And I would ask, like, is it cause of my dad? Like, what is going on? They were just like, no, it's not the case. And I was also so young, so it's not like I was really putting two and two together. Like, all I knew was that he hated my guts. He was an angry teenager. And this was supposed to be my older brother. And this was what I. I was young. I was probably, like, 7 or 8 when he started treating me like this. And it just progressed. So we're in Vegas for a while. We move into this really big house after. This was, like, the last house that we had when we were in Vegas because we moved around a lot, and some of the things he started doing, he. It's so weird talking about it. I'm not. I don't talk about it very much, but it's a lot.

A (26:32)

It's heavy.

B (26:32)

It is. So it just would start with little things, like the food and stuff, and, like, him just dictating how the house goes or whenever my mom's gone and the games. Right? So I don't know if you ever played Red Dead Redemption. It's like. It's like a gta, but with horses. Whatever.

A (26:49)

Okay.

B (26:50)

It's silly, but I would, like, when I got the opportunity, I would, like, play this game, and I would customize my horse, and I would, like, for hours, and I'd be so excited, and it was just the best thing ever to me. And they would have, like, I got done one day, and I leave, and I come back home, and they have all their friends over there. My older brother and my older sister and all their friends are hanging out, playing this game. And my brother tells me. He's like, hey, Mattie, come here. And I come over there, and he just starts, like, shooting my horse. And then, like, he'd call another one and just start shooting the horse. And that was, like, the start of, like, it escalating in front of everybody. And he just. He just got crazy with just wanting to, like, see me cry. Like, I was sitting there just bawling my eyes out. He would get a box, like a moving box, and shove me into the box and close the box and, like, keep me shut in there. And I'm like, dude, that's so claustrophobic. I'd be freaking out, crying. I'm yelling like, please stop. And nothing. Like, he would just hold me in there and not let me come out at all in front of all of his friends. Like, he's doing all these things to just humiliate me. And I just did not understand what I was doing. Don't get me wrong. I was their little sister, so I was a little odd. I had my little quirks, but nothing to the extent of what I was getting from him. So then. And I, like, I knew they smoked weed, but, like, smoking was just around, so I knew that's what that was. But, you know, I was so young, I don't know the difference between, like, alcohol and this and that. So getting older, I find out, like, he was on a lot of other stuff. So around that same time, when he's doing all that stuff, he starts doing a lot of the sexual abuse to me, too. And he would come to find out my brother has a foot fetish. So he would. We'd be laying on the couch, I'd have a blanket, and he would do this in front of my sister or in front of company, but it would be under the blanket, and he'd be. It's like, we're watching A movie. And he would just, like, grab my feet and do whatever he wanted to do with them to make him finish, and I would, like, feel it all. And he did that multiple times to me in front of people with a blanket over us. And I didn't. I kept my mouth shut and.

A (29:08)

So question.

B (29:09)

Yeah.

A (29:10)

Would he just, like, finish in his pants?

B (29:13)

No, he.

A (29:13)

Or he, like, would take it out.

B (29:14)

He would take my feet and, like, masturbate with it. And then, like, you'd. I could feel it. I was, like, 9 or 10. Yeah. And it was in that house that. The last house in Vegas. I started doing that in the rp.

A (29:28)

Started doing that in when that started happening. Because obviously, when he was, like, torturing you physically.

B (29:33)

Right. And, like, emotionally, too, because he's not. He's dictating almost everything that I can and can't do, from the moment I walk in from school to when my mom gets home late at night.

A (29:43)

Did you have, like, a. A new fear come up when that started happening? The sexual abuse?

B (29:48)

Yeah.

A (29:49)

Okay.

B (29:49)

Yeah. Cause I, like, I'd get nervous every time my feet were around or, like. Cause I could tell that was, like, his thing. And, like, that. There's a lot more instance that, like, happens that as we're older, we do get to realize, like, he is. He does have, like, a real foot fetish. It's insane. So in that time, I never. I wasn't exposed to any of this. They were. Right. But I. The only thing I ever saw was that memory I had with my dad. And I still was trying to figure that out, because I didn't really. To be honest, I was like, I don't know what that is. Whatever. So, yeah, when he did that, I was, like, nervous, very, very anxious and not understanding and.

A (30:33)

Would he ever say anything to you, like, after the fact, or. It would just happen. It would just not be spoken about.

B (30:38)

And then, like, he would stop and he'd get up and go to the bathroom, or we'd just, like, sit there for a minute and watch what we were watching or, like. Yeah, it was. It was. And that happened multiple times, like. And. I don't know. I was. They shut me out so much, and they just stood up for him so much. So it was really hard for me to come to them and be like, yeah, hey, so and so is. Especially with how much I saw he was getting away with already. So it was really, like, uncomfortable for me. And then I got exposed at a young age. And I'm, like, starting to process this because I'm, like, so is this what guys want? Like, is this, you know, like, and this is my older brother. This is the only man in my life. This is like my dad's gone. You guys treat me like this. You guys have your dad though. So it was, it was really, really confusing in my early stages.

A (31:32)

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B (33:14)

So we eventually leave Vegas and the whole time we were there from like I said, I was like 6 to 9, he was doing stuff to me from 8 to so on. But he started sexually abusing me when I was 9 to 10. So yeah, he was doing that. And my sister and my mom never knew. And I can tell they never knew because I like, I kept it from them very much. And so did he. It was just this unspoken thing that happened between us, but they knew about everything else he was doing. I would tell my mom when she'd get home and she would try and say something to him, but then it would blow up into a huge fight. So it just got to the point to where it's like we'd rather just let him do whatever than have to deal with the consequences of him freaking the fuck out. Yeah. So we're in Vegas and all this is happening. And they're also. I don't even know what they were doing, but from the stories that I ended up hearing, they were having their own teenage crazy ass life that I had no idea about. So some of that, he's, like, already not mentally stable. He's doing a bunch of drugs. He's able to do whatever he wants. So, like, I try to empathize with him a little bit with it because it is. I mean, he didn't have the father figure or the means necessary to get the help that he really did need. And same with my sister. But I think there comes a point too where, you know, he even did that to me and it happened with my sister and it sucks and it's hard and you have to, like, process it, but you either, you either go left or you go right and you choose what needs to happen.

A (34:47)

Yeah.

B (34:48)

And me and my sister, like, we both just. We didn't let this affect our lives. We grew from it and we kept it moving. He, like, honed in on it. It was everything. And he felt like he was, in a sense, he felt like he saved the family from my dad, which, like, I didn't even understand that because nobody told me that.

A (35:11)

Yeah.

B (35:11)

So. And I'll, you know, get into that more when I tell you when.

A (35:14)

And also, it's not saving if you're doing the same thing.

B (35:17)

Right. Right. So I don't know that was happening. My mom, the Vegas situation wasn't working. So she's like, we need to go back to Arkansas. So she packs all of us up and she ends up leaving my brother there in Vegas because he had made a life. He had friends.

A (35:36)

How old was he?

B (35:37)

He was like 16, 17. My sister, he was 16, 15. Because my sister was like 14, 15 when we moved back to Arkansas. So it was just us three. My mom, my sister and me. And I was so excited. I'm sure, so excited. They were like, my s. Was a hot mess. She was. Her and my brother were like this. And I mean, I get It. Their age difference is so. They're so close to each other. I was so far from them.

A (36:04)

Yeah.

B (36:04)

And my age was so different, so. And I was just different from them. They had the same dad. I didn't. We had the same mom dynamic, very much so. My mom didn't really have guys. She had one, like, boyfriend in Vegas that I would see, but I. It was more flings. Like, I never got close with any guys. And same with my sister. Like, there wasn't ever, like, any relationships that I really saw together like, that growing up. So I think. I don't know, I feel like that kind of affected things, too, because I could tell they, like, they would talk about it and that's all they really wanted. Like, my mom wanted to find a guy and be our stepdad and, like, get married. And same with my sister, but she was also kind of trying to do her own thing, but she wanted, you know. So I would hear this and then I would get kind of, like, stories from them, like hooking up with people or just from eavesdropping. Right. And I forgot to mention, so right before we move, I still don't know anything about my dad. Right. I have no idea. My brother, he's, like, doing this shit to me. And when I find out what happened, I was like. I would do the most weirdest shit as a kid just because I was so bored. I would just, like, walk around my house. I would, like, play little games with myself. Myself. I would, like, kind of just eavesdrop on everyone, to be honest, because they were always like, just chill in the backyard and I can't be there and doing this and whatever. So tensions were high in the house. And this is like, the last couple months we were in Vegas and tensions were high. I couldn't understand why. And it's like, late at night one night, and they're outside smoking, and I like, doing my weird shit, just walking around, probably riding my scooter. And I come around, like, in the side of the house where they can't see me, and I just hear them talking, and I hear them talk about my dad's parole coming up. And I'm like. I'm like, 11, 10. I don't know what the fuck a parole is like. And then I hear, yeah, he's probably like, he's going to try and get out of prison. And that's how I found out. And I don't know what exactly. I can't remember what was said, but something about, like, what he did to Destiny, to my sister was was said. So I was like, okay. So it kind of was like, coming to me in that moment.

A (38:22)

Right. Did he go away because of what he did to her specifically?

B (38:27)

Right. So I was like, oh. And, like, especially how Destiny got treated too. Like, she. I remember as a little girl, her, like, not having to do certain chores, not having to do. And my father is a scary man. Like, you want to listen to him. He's tall. He's like big Bill.

A (38:45)

Yeah.

B (38:46)

So they were very much intimidated by him. So it was surprising that my sister, like, got away with a lot of things, right? So. And even with my mom, my brother, everybody kind of just felt for my sister. And I did not understand why. Like, I was kind of just like, what's so special about her? And not, like, me. Why isn't this so even? Right? And we weren't close, so she wasn't telling me. Me anything that was going down. I had no idea. We were never. She. I was like a child to them. Like their child they had to take care of. So they really honed in on, not just trying to keep my ears protected from all the stuff. And I think it did more harm than good, to be honest, because I feel if they would have just sat with me and been like, hey, your dad said some terrible things. He's not a good man. But it was just, like, just so aggressive and just like, not telling me anything, to be honest. So. Yeah, so that's how I find out. And then we. We go to Arkansas and we leave my brother behind. And at this point, I'm like 11 or 12, and I start smoking weed because I'm like, well, I see it's a cool thing.

A (39:53)

Everybody's doing it.

B (39:54)

I go in my. I. When my mom's apart or her room in the apartment, there's like a watermelon bong. I'm like, what's this? Like, let me see what's up. And I see them get happy with it, and I wanted to do it. And so when me and my sister and my mom leave, I kind of start talking to my sister a little more. And she was very much more the approachable one than honestly, both my mom and my brother. My mom's a little more. Just like, she shuts down and a little more erratic about things. So I never really wanted to talk to her because I didn't want it to be a blown up type of conversation. My sister was kind of more, you know, calm and collected, but also like, I'm your big sister. You're gonna fucking listen to me. Right. So I started talking to her more and I told her, like, hey, I want to smoke. And like, what's up? So we would start smoking together. And that's kind of how me and my sister kind of bonded. We still weren't super close, but I felt like I finally had someone in my family. So it was. It was hard feeling like she didn't say a lot of things to stick up for me before that, but I was just like, this is cool what I'm getting right now from her, right? So she, like, smoked weed with me for the first time ever. And we had like, the super awesome bonding experience. And we were with like a few other people, and she was being really protective of me. And like, I never really had that from them. Like, this is awesome. Like, my sister's being kind of cool. Like, what? And when we first got to Arkansas, we were like, staying with some of my mom's friends. We didn't have a place for a minute. So she was even more. Me and her, I think, were even closer. She was going into. She's probably starting high school, 14, 15. So I was like, I said 11, 10. Gosh, such a young age to start smoking weed too. And I don't think I even realize how much that even affects you. And it does. You know, you try to act all cool and whatever about it, but it. It got to me. And I'm just exposed to so much already. I mean, they were. I don't take that away from them. Like, holy moly. But I also, like, without being able to feel like I can talk to anyone about it. And one thing I've learned about myself is I'm very much like a. I'd rather talk about everything and lay it all out on the table and us be able to hold each other accountable and move on than just like, shove it under the rug. I'm not that type of person. And I was like that even as a little girl. I was very matter of fact, like, hey, why are we not having? Like, why am I not eating? Why am I not? So I would just say stuff like this, and then they'd get upset. So I was very much like that. But my sister, she was really good at shutting me down in a more positive way. She just didn't really want to talk about it. She was like young, 14, 15, doing her thing. So then we finally get a house. My mom gets a house some way, working, whatever. And my sister meets this guy and she gets pregnant at 15. And it sucks. Cause it's like, what happened to My mom, you know, so. And I see, we both saw how much it's affected my mom and how it, you know, where her life went with it. So my sister gets pregnant and as you know, I was super excited to have a niece, but also like, that went away. My sister, like went away from me and she started having to like, grow up even more and go to her like boyfriend's house and like starting to live with them, starting to get ready to have a child. And then I think right before, a few months before my first niece was born, Donovan, my brother, comes back home to Arkansas with us.

A (43:36)

So how long was he gone for? In total?

B (43:38)

I'd say like six to nine months. It wasn't like in my head, it's. I mean, I could be wrong with the time frame, but in my head it seemed like we moved to Arkansas, we had this good time together. And then my sister gets a pregnant. Okay. So it was like with sometime she got pregnant, he came back.

A (43:56)

Okay.

B (43:57)

And I could be wrong. It could have been a little longer, but in my kid brain, that's how fast like everything seemed to be moving at that time. So he comes back and I was so mad about it. I was like, great. Like, here we go again. And it's his, you know, he's already. Luckily I had my own room. It was the first time I had my own room with like a big bed and I was so excited. So I had my own things. And he came in and started living with us. He's like 17, I think at this point, 16. And he wouldn't go to school still. He would fight with my mom about going to school. He was just doing super delinquent stuff. It does not matter like what anybody tried telling him what he needed to do. He was going to do whatever made him feel good that day and anybody else who got in his way, so. And my mom, she's working. My mom was working, like, yeah, all the time.

A (44:50)

So there was no one to really discipline at all.

B (44:52)

Yeah, and she tried, but like I said, when she would try, like, they barely. I think also with what happened with my father just lacked that respect out of all the adults in their lives. And even my sister, I mean, there were times when my sister, I mean, she got pregnant at 15. I mean, my mom was going off on her about that. Like, well, you did right, like, you know, so it was hard. There wasn't that respect there. Which, yeah, she is our mom. There should have been, but they just did not have it. But I had to have it. That was the hardest thing is, no matter what, I had to respect them and I had to, like, do whatever they all said. And it's like, you guys are all treating me like wild. Destiny would be in and out with me sometimes. I'd be able to open up to her about things, but then sometimes, like, it'd be combative. It was super back and forth with me and her. But then once she had the baby, we were. It was me and her just distance ourselves from each other even more. And so Donovan was at the house a lot more, and it was just me and him. And then stuff would start happening. And it was always the same thing. When he sexually abused me, it wasn't like he would do anything else. And I'm not trying to. Like, that sounds crazy, but it was always the foot thing and just being on the couch or being in this area where he could get my feet. And like I said, people would be like, right there, and I just. I would just freeze. It was like an instinct for me. I don't. I think it was just how I coped with it. It's crazy. And I never said anything to them, being that young. I never said. I think I was too, in a really fucked up way. Like, maybe this is his way of, like, loving me.

A (46:32)

Yeah, like showing you affection.

B (46:33)

Because he never. I mean, we all were never. Like, me and my sister have probably hugged like, five times in our lives. We are not super like that in general. So I was like, okay. So when he came and my sister was gone, I would. I think we tried bonding more, me and him. I think I just came to a point of, like, trying to accept that he is who he is, and I need to just kind of obey because my mom's not going to be around and she's not going to stick up for me. Yeah, it was like that for a while. He would just. He would just be abusive. I mean, there were times he would randomly. Like there was this one night we were in a weird situation. After that house. After that house we moved into in Arkansas, it went back to going to apartments, going to people we're staying with. It wasn't like, I'd probably be stable with my mom in a house for maybe a year. If that's so, then it'd be like six months somewhere else, three months somewhere else, two months with, like, a friend or something like that. And so there was this time, like, my sister's gone, and at this point, she's doing her thing with her kid and her baby daddy at the time, and all this stuff. So she's kind of out of the picture at this point, which sucked for me. So it's me, my mom, and my brother now, and we're going from place to place. And also, like, which blows my mind now. They never made him get a job. They never made him, like. Or my mom never made him, like, put any effort into being there. Being at his age of the responsibility of having a house, of getting a car, paying for food, he just. Always, just had whatever he needed. And I think it was my mom's way, looking back now, of just feeling bad for what happened with my dad and him. I think they just all felt like they were doomed after that happened, which sucks for me, because there was somebody looking up to you guys. It just sucked. So we were moving from place to place, and he's like, 16 or 17, and I. I was probably fifth grade, sixth grade. And we. I was sleeping on the floor. He'd get the couch. It was always like that. He'd always get the comfiest spot. I was just kind of put in the recliner or wherever they would put me at the time. And I remember I had, like, an award ceremony at school. You know how they do that for you in elementary or middle school? And I was really nervous about it, and I wanted, like. I just wanted the rest. And I wanted to feel good for in the morning because I felt like I was gonna go up in front of people to get the award. And I didn't have a blanket, so I took the blanket, and he. And this is, like, where he really, really physically abused me. He. I take the blanket, and he, like, comes in. He's like, no, I'm taking that. Like, I'm going to sleep with it. And I was like, dude, like, I combated him. I was like, dude, I have something in the morning. Like, I'm just trying to go to sleep. Let me have the blanket. We get into this huge fight, and he just, like, just starts shoving me to the ground. And he puts a pillow on top of my face and just starts beating my face. Like, I'm a grown man. Just start going in on me. And at the time, I didn't realize it, but I guess my mom had a really bad alcohol problem, and I. I did not know that. They came out to me a lot more as we're all, you know, trying to heal and talk about things. So they told me that. So I didn't realize that she was also kind of, like, abusing stuff, too. So I remember that morning, I had a busted lip like, my nose hurt, my jaw hurt. It was terrible. And I tried telling her, like, I tried being like, mom, like, I don't want to. I was not wanting to go to school. She pulled up to the parking lot, and I'm trying to tell her I'm crying, I have all this anxiety. And I was just telling her, please don't make me go. Like, I cannot. And she was just kind of, like, laughing at me, like, not taking me serious. And I was like, did she ask

A (50:26)

you what happened to your face?

B (50:27)

Yeah, but, like, she asked what happened and I told her. And it was so downplayed all the time. Like, well, you know, not to piss him off or, well, you know, like, not to do this. Like, you know how he gets. It was super. And I was just like. And I had so much anxiety, like, as a child with, like, not having food, with bills, not being paid or getting evicted all the time. So, like, I was just in this moment, like. And I think when I went to school, that was like, my escape of things. So I really cared how I looked to people or how I acted because it was kind of where I would, like, make my friends and make connections with people because I wasn't really getting that at home. So I was like, telling her, like, please don't make me go. Me and her get into this huge fight. Because she's just like, it's fine, like, you're being dramatic about it, blah, blah, blah. And she's just not taking me seriously. Like, I remember at one point in that conversation, she, like, just smiled and, like, laughed at me about it. And it really, like, it just hurt my heart, like, because that's my mom out of everybody. I really thought you would maybe, I don't know, you do something about it.

A (51:34)

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B (52:29)

So after that, like, I was so mad, and me and Donovan just kept fighting and just fighting. We'd yell at each other. We'd. And it just escalate. Like, he would push me and. But there was nothing that would be done. Like, I would just have to deal with him being this way towards me, and I couldn't handle it anymore. So my mom, it was a summer of seventh grade, was like, I'm gonna send you to Russellville, Arkansas, which is, like, kind of down south to stay with you and your uncle. And I still had the bruises on my face from him. And I'll never forget, it was shortly after that fight because, like, that week after that fight, me and him were just fighting all the time. And she even was, like, to the point, I can't deal with the this anymore. She sends me to my aunt and my uncle's for the summer. And I remember I pulled up, and my aunt literally started crying because she saw my face and was like, this is not okay.

A (53:23)

Yeah. What's your mom's sister?

B (53:26)

Yeah. So it was just them two, my mom and her older sister, who. And my mom was adopted, but my aunt wasn't, so she was the older sister to her. She was seven years older than my mom. And I remember we'd go to my aunt and my uncle's for holidays, stuff like that. Way more structured. They have the nice house. They have land. It was always, I look forward to going over there. And I was really close with my uncle, my aunt's husband, and, I don't know, me and him just connected. And I think it was like, the man. There's a respectful older man that I can look up to. He doesn't make me feel like he's gonna come at me in a weird way or look at me in a weird way. And I was also, like, I was a tall child, so I looked a lot older than what I was at the time. So I. After what Donovan was doing to me, I also started getting, like, seeing how older men would look at me and my sister, too. So it was nice because my uncle really, like, never made me feel that way. It was just pure, pure love from them. But they were also very structured, and they were very strict, and they go to church every Sunday and every Wednesday night, and we got to do it like this. And, you know, so I went there for that summer, and it was the best summer ever. I mean, it was so chill. No fighting. I didn't have to worry about food. Like, I gained a little weight. My aunt, I remember she made comments like, you were skinny when you first got here. Like, I saw your hip bones, and now, like, you're feeling up. It's better. So that was awesome. But then I had to go back with my mom, and it was just the same old story. It's just the same thing every time. And my brother, I think, just ruined a lot of things for my mom. She would get in these relationships, and he would just always be at the house. He's not doing anything. He's not working, he's not going to school. They're blowing up in fights. She's kind of starting to realize, like, he's not doing well. So eventually she, like, gets this girlfriend, my mom, random as hell. She starts dating this girl. I don't know where that came from. That's awesome. But, like, random as hell. Couldn't stand her. This girl that she was with, she was terrible. She was just not a good human being. I could not. And I was. So when I went to stay with my aunt, my uncle, I was probably 12 at that point. So when I came back, she. She was with this girl, and we were all living together, me, my brother, and them too. And they would all get close and smoke. And she got close with my brother. Her name was Christy, so. And Donovan's my brother, so Christy and Donovan. And my mom would just all kind of, like, chill while I did my thing. It was like, literally Vegas all over again. But I'm a little older, so I'm getting a little more pissed off because I'm starting to grow and have a voice and just be like, man, this sucks. This truly sucks. And I never had a phone. I never had any type of electronics in my room or anything like that because it all went to the older siblings. And whatever she did, she would, like, help them out first and then just kind of take care of me because I was just like, the one they all had to take care of. It felt like. So this girlfriend of hers, Christy, like, after that, I always say my mom, she just wasn't there. Like, she was going through her own stuff. And, like, besides that moment of Donovan, like, I don't think she was a terrible mom to me when she was around, she tried, but she was just gone. So it was a lot easier for them to do stuff. But when she got with this freaking chick, she really became a bad mom, to be honest. Just, she let that girl dictate everything. Just, like, kind of my brother. And then they, like, are super close, which is weird. So it was, like, very strange dynamic. And I'm hitting preteens now, and my sister's, like, raising her first kid, and then she gets pregnant again. So now she's about to have two kids. Like, so it's literally like she's doing the same thing my mom did. I don't have anybody. I'm just this random little kid in my family. And there was this one adult. Her name's Holly. She was a family friend, and she was the only family friend that really, like, asked about me. And she came around this time, and she was. She had always been back and forth with us, but she really started when we moved back to Arkansas, really started coming to the picture a lot more. And she was the first adult to really, like, besides my and my uncle. When I could see them, because they were, like, two hours away. She would really, like, ask me and talk to me about things and how I'm doing, how I'm feeling this, that, and the third. So I got really close with her, and she was, like, my mom's best friend. But she also didn't agree with how my mom was doing a lot of things, because, again, I mean, they're smoking. I'm also smoking behind everybody's back because I'm not allowed to. So I would be, like, hiding in my room, isolating myself even more. And it was frustrating because you did this with them when they were this age. But, like, God forbid I do anything. I'm like, whatever. So Holly was just super like, this just isn't right, this dynamic. But I'm gonna just support and be here the best way I can. So when she's with Christy, they decide, hey, we should move to California, because Christy knows some people I'm about to hit. I'm in eighth grade. I'm about to go to ninth grade. So in Fayetteville, Arkansas, it's like ninth grade through 12th grade. One building. It's the high school. So I was, like, super excited because I've been at the middle school, and we're about to go into the high school and start everything and yada, yada. And then they're like, hey, we're gonna move to California, dude, we just got here. I feel like it was probably, like, three or four years, but to me, it's like, dude, come on.

A (59:25)

I'm here again, right? Yeah.

B (59:27)

Yeah. So we end up going to California, and we drive there, and two, we have that dog that I brought up in the beginning. That dog Was like, the only thing that was always consistently there for me. Like, her name was Sasha, and she was like, out of all of them, was always the one. It's crazy. That dog was like a mother figure to me because she was always there. So everywhere we went, she would be with us. And she protected. She was a pit bull. So she protected us a lot with a lot of things. So that was also kind of one of my outlets. So we take everything that we just like the little stuff that we did have when we moved to California. And at this point, I think my brother, to be honest, I'm not dealing with him as much before we go. I'm just kind of, like, avoiding all of it. The sexual stuff kind of stopped once I came back from that summer from Russellville. So I was like, I'm just gonna. I know what I need to do. I need to just stay away from you guys and go into my room, focus on school, smoke weed whenever I can to calm down, and I'm gonna do my own thing. We up and move, and when we get to California, we're literally, like, homeless, living in the car. We didn't have any plan, didn't have any house. It's just my mom, her girlfriend Chrissy, and me, and then our dog Sasha. And I'm just like, I'm surprised your

A (60:49)

mom wanted to move away from your sister.

B (60:51)

I think she got to a point to where. Cause my sister would still come over with all the kids, and, like, we'd. You know, they'd all hang out and stuff. I just wasn't, like, involved very much. Like, I would be away in the room and stuff, so they were still all close. But I think she got to a point where she was kind of just tired of them, too.

A (61:08)

Okay.

B (61:08)

Cause they, like. I mean, to an extent, they, like, sucked the life out of my mom, like, because they had so much going on. And my mom was just trying to be there for them, and they were, like, older, and they were talking about, like, what happened with my dad, and I would get pieces of it and whatnot, so. And by this point, I'm starting to understand, like, my dad did something sexual to my sister, and that's like, he's in prison, and that's kind of like what I know. And that's all just for me. Eavesdropping.

A (61:37)

Yeah.

B (61:38)

And that's all I know so far at this moment. And then. So we go. We're homeless in California. And I, like, my mom would drop me off at school. I was like, eighth grade, dropped me off at school? No, no. I was going into ninth grade, okay. And I would literally just walk around the building and just like, stay outside because I was so embarrassed to go to school because I was in the same clothes. I was like. I felt disgusting. I hadn't showered. I had just slept in the car. I was like. Because like I said when I went to school, when I was away from them, like, I cared how I was presented and I cared what I wore and things like that. So I, like, wouldn't. And we would fight about it because I'm hitting like 13, 14 age, and I'm like, dude, I don't want to. I'm having all this anxiety. I can't talk to anybody about anything. Because you guys kind of just care about your own stuff. It's whatever. And I just didn't. I did not want to go and deal with this. So for, like, we moved there to California in August, and that was right when the school year was starting. So I would do that for, like, weeks. I'd probably go to that school. Like, maybe the whole time I was there, maybe a month, I went to that school. All the other days I would just be walking around. I did not want to go. I was not here for it. So my aunt. My uncle get word of what's going on in California. And me and my mom are just fighting back and forth. All she cares about is Christy and like, smoking with Chrissy. And what Christy wants. And she's weirdly, was just a lot like my brother. Like, we had to do whatever she wanted and had to, like. So that was just a pain in itself. Cause I'm seeing my mom just not care about anything but, like, her. Cause I think she just was so lonely at this point. The first relationship that felt real to her, she just like popped into it. And she was so manipulated by her too. So it sucked because I think Christy made her think that they were gonna have, you know, that bigger picture that they always wanted. And it just wasn't the case. So I remember my. And my uncle get word. And it's probably October now. Just a few months of us being in California and my mom. We're in a hotel room and my mom wakes me up at. And I'm also, you know, I'm smoking. I'm still doing stuff, right? Like, I'm super young, doing my own thing, but having to deal with all this stuff. We're in a hotel room. We get a hotel for the night. And I'll never forget she, like, wakes me up at 4 in the morning, I had no idea. And she just goes, you're getting on a flight in an hour to go live with your aunt and your uncle. And I just like freak out because this is all I've known. Like, what do you mean? I'm going to live with my aunt and my uncle? Like, this is my life. Like, you're my mom. Like, what about Sasha? What about. It was a lot like, no. Like, you guys are supposed to be my family. Like, you're just. And she's like, we can't do this, we're homeless. You're not happy. Like, we need to get you. Looking back, she was really trying to do the best that she thought was good for me in that moment. But I'm so young. This is all I've known. I'm about to go. Which was an amazing time that summer.

A (64:50)

But it's also just so much back and forth.

B (64:53)

Right.

A (64:53)

And like you had no time to just settle.

B (64:57)

Yeah. From like the time even when they were. When she was with my dad, they moved us around like all types of states. I mean, I just. Because it's just so much to get into. There's no point, like, same. Same shit was happening wherever we were. So, yeah, like I was been to a handful of states by the time I was like 8 or 9. So yeah, so 13, 14 plus I'm not around them. Like, as messed up as they were, they were my family at that point. So I was like, okay, so you're really just going to kind of give me up. That's really how I felt about it at that time. And like I said, me and my sister had stopped talking and I was grateful to get away from my brother. I will say, like, it sucks because I think they see a different side of my brother. I think they have a lot more sympathy for him. But he started neglecting and abusing me at such a young age. For me, like, I don't really have fond memories with my brother. Right. So she wakes me up, you're going to live in Russellville with your aunt and your uncle. And I get there and like, they tried. I was just so exposed already. They had two older kids and they were already out in college. So it was just me and this super big house with like a queen size bed, a huge closet, multiple rooms, all this land. Like when I walked in there, it was like just overstimulated. Overload.

A (66:23)

Such a different life.

B (66:25)

Right? Like, I didn't even have. I didn't know if I was gonna be able to eat or not being there with them if the electricity was gonna be turned off or not. So I was trippin balls. Like, this is a lot. So they tried that night when they picked me up from the airport, they could tell I was super uneasy and they, like, got me. I was obsessed with big Macs from McDonald's, so they would, like, get me that and just tried to really comfort me. I remember that first week she took me shopping for new clothes because I only had whatever was in my little suitcase. And I flew for the first time by myself too. So I was just like, this is fucking crazy, like all this happening at once. So, yeah. And then I come in and I'm about to hit ninth grade and. And I just. I was a mess already. I didn't have therapy, I was expelled. And they're not. They go to church every Sunday. They. My uncle was a marine. Set up a life for them. Their kids were perfect. Like, super good kids. I don't even know if they ever drink alcohol underage once. I don't think they even know what weed smells like. Besides, when we were coming around for Christmas, like, I was like, oh, my goodness. Like, I was nervous as hell. So I come in and like I said, they were super Christian and they tried really shoving that down my throat and getting me to go to church and getting me to do this. And so I start. So in Russellville, you have 8th and 9th grade, junior high, and then 10th through 12th grade high school. So I was like, man, I gotta go back to a junior high. I just was not super excited about it. So that was kind of the dynamic and different personalities too, because I'm also. I mean, if you go back. My mom was adopted. I have no blood relation to them whatsoever. Like, they're my family, of course, but we are just all so different. Very much so. And so coming in with my aunt, bless her heart, she just. She's very controlling. And like I said, you know, when you try to control something so much, you do more harm than good. She had really good intentions, don't get me wrong. But she just really tried to. I think they both did. Even my uncle. Me and my uncle were a lot more closer because he, you know, was more. He'd let loose a little more and she would get onto us like, you guys are laughing a little too hard, you know, and stuff like that. And my grandmother was actually living with. In the house at the same time too. They're my mom's mom. So it was nice because I got to be with Nana and also be with my. And my Uncle. But it was very stressful because of how they were really trying to control what was going on and how I was acting. So when I got to ninth grade, Russell is a super. We got one high school, it's got one university. So it's, like, not too small, but not super big. So everybody kind of knows each other. And I'm coming in my first day of school. I have a Bob Marley shirt on. I mean, I remember girls talking about they thought I was in a gang. I just. I'm tall. I'm a little awkward. I probably have. I mean, not kids, you know, have seen whatever, but I've probably seen more than half the kids in this school I've seen. So I was just like, oh, crap. Like, and there's. There was preppy, cliquey. You know what I mean? So it was weird trying to find my place when I first moved there. So I'm going to school. And every day after school, I would spend time with my grandma, but she was. Her health was declining super bad. So all of ninth grade, like, she was super sick, but also trying to, like, still maintain normal life because they had a little apartment above their garage that she would stay in. So I would go and check in on her, like, and watch Dr. Phil with her. And we'd bond, and we'd, you know, and we'd, like, actually talk about stuff. And she wanted to know. And she was like, you know, she was structured. She tried building my mom a really good life and my aunt and tried doing the whole thing. But I could talk to her. Like, I really could tell her, well, I never explained the sexual abuse to her because, you know, that's my grandmother. But I did tell her a lot of what was going on, and we just opened up to each other a lot. And then she ended up passing away. When? At the end of my ninth grade year. And it was hard because she also felt super kind of neglected by my aunt, my uncle. Like, we'd go to church, and she'd have to go sit with the older ladies and not with us. And it would bother her or, like, oh, sure, dinners would stop happening with all of them together. And it's just her. Both her ex husbands have passed away. Like, so I felt for her. Like, we got so close because of that, and she. So it was hard because I started feeling a little anger towards my aunt and my uncle now because I'm like, y' all are kind of, you know, being a little, I don't know, judgy, but also, like, not being there and like, expecting the most out of us. And then like, Nana passed away and I wasn't really. I think she should have been taken care more of. I think being there and seeing it like we should have been collectively taking care of my grandmother more. I was the only one. I felt like going up and spending time with her and like, seeing her and seeing the situation like, she's getting old. This is what happens. We gotta. If she's gonna come live with you, we have to take in that responsibility. So I was really frustrated with them, like, with how she passed away and stuff. I was just already mad. And then that summer I'm going. Then that next year I'm going into high school in 10th grade. And I was. I was like. I didn't have any outlets. I didn't know how to get weed. I didn't know how to like. And I really wanted to smoke. I really wanted to, like, do stuff because I was already exposed. Like.

A (72:10)

Yeah, you already had the experience.

B (72:11)

Right.

A (72:12)

So were you talking to your mom mom at this time?

B (72:15)

To be honest, I probably like the first year ish of me living there. And she would call. She was close with my Nana because my nana would help her out, send her money here and there. But once I hit high school, like, not really. I went years without talking to that whole family. Wow.

A (72:31)

So not even your sister.

B (72:33)

And that was like. And it'll all come full circle at the end, so.

A (72:37)

So it was mainly just the new dynamic of this. Of the aunt, uncle.

B (72:41)

Yep. And then coming straight from where I came from. So. Yeah, I didn't really. I knew my brother was with girls, popping kids out here, and I mean, he has like six kids and I.

A (72:51)

He was having kids too, at this point. Okay.

B (72:53)

Yeah. And I. I just wasn't a part of it. I. I didn't really want to be either because of after everything. And I did because I would see my sister before I moved to Russellville sometimes with the babies and like, I'd get close with her kids. And I had, you know, a few moments because I want to be their aunt. But also they just pushed me away so much. And I pushed myself away once I got there. And so in Russellville, my aunt, my uncle, I think, and with how the town is and how cliquey everything is, I like my reputation and how I looked and I was already kind of like that. But like, it kind of. I could tell it was kind of a thing there, like, oh. So I don't really want anybody to know where I came from.

A (73:37)

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B (74:06)

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A (74:33)

Learn more@americanexpress.com Business Platinum it's almost like it feels easier and better to just leave it in the past and forget.

B (74:42)

Exactly. Like, a lot of people there just knew I came and I lived. My aunt, my uncle, and that was really it. So it was kind of like funny to me because nobody really knew. And I just. So I started. I did theater in high school. That was my little outlet. So I didn't, like, do sports. So I didn't get drug tested. So I could still, you know, I found out. I figured out a way to get weed from meeting somebody and so I'd start smoking and I was. I feel like I was a little versatile. Like I like to know everybody. I wasn't super clicked up, but I started, you know, meeting people and I felt like people liked me. So I was like, oh my gosh, I love the attention. I also was like super bro y. Like I said my first day, Bob Marley sweatpants, Converse. Like, what's up? So I didn't have, like, feminine qualities. You know, I didn't really. I didn't think I'd get a boyfriend. I immediately would get friend zoned. I didn't really think of stuff like that. So whenever I did, like, have a crush on a guy or something like that, I was super. Just I didn't have any confidence. I didn't think it was because it would happen, like, with girls around me or like with some of my friends or things like that. And I didn't really know how to go about it. So I just, it wasn't really a thing for me. I just like wanted to kind of get fucked up and hang out with like my friends and things like that, Right? So, yeah, I started just. I feel like once I hit 10th grade and my grandmother passed away, it was just high school. I mean, it's hard for me to talk about high school because I was. I was low key, a piece of shit. But I also, because of. It's not an excuse, but just everything I went through and I was exposed to and I just wanted attention. And then I lost my virginity at a really young age. And I think it was a few months after starting 10th grade. So then it's like, oh, my gosh, a guy likes me. Like, this is how you get guys to like you. Like, holy crap. So that would become a thing. And then like doing drugs, sneaking out, the whole, you know, high school thing. But I think I really, like, overdid it. I really did. I got.

A (76:56)

You pushed the boundaries.

B (76:57)

I pushed the boundaries. I was stealing super. I'd steal people's money. I'd steal my aunt, my uncle's money. I would lie, I'd manipulate. And I. So I had two best friends, Taylor and Gabby. And they're the two I'm gonna point out. It was like a group of us, but they're the ones that matter the most, so I'm gonna point them out. But it was all of us. And I still talk to them to this day. And it was just. It was awful because in high school we're just all so different. Like, I'm 24 now, so I graduated in 2019. And it's not that long ago, but it is that long ago for me. And I was just so, like, hurt people, hurt people. And I didn't give a crap about anybody's feelings, why I would steal and why I would. And we all started doing drugs too, at a really young age, like cocaine and smoking weed. We wouldn't even care about what was happening at school or our academics. We were just like, all right, after school, where are we gonna smoke? What are we gonna do with this? What's going. You know, it wasn't really anything like that. And it was fun. Like, this was my outlet. These were the people I was connecting with the most. I never connected with my family like this. And we all had our drama. Like, you know, me and Taylor would have drama with each other, me and Gabby, but we all, like, I don't know, we were all kind of collectively kind of just like being fuck ups together, right? So. And I was also, I think, a little dramatic. I was very dramatic because I think I had just dealt with my more than usual than the people around me. And I was fighting with my aunt and my uncle a lot at this point. I mean, after 10th grade, going the junior year, it just got worse. Like I was doing all that times 20. I mean, there was a point I would teach little kids how to swim over the summer. I was making really good money. All that money went to cocaine. I have no idea. Like that was good money. And I did not save it, did not do anything with it. And I also didn't even. Taylor, she drove, she got her license at a good age. I didn't get my license till I was 21.

A (79:06)

Wow.

B (79:07)

Because I just didn't kind of like my mom. I just thought day to day, I didn't think what's going to happen five years from now? I thought today and what's going to make me feel good and my friends feel good? Because this is the attention that I've always wanted. Like, this is it. So I. And there was like there were guys involved and I would kind of, you know, hone in on that because I never had male tension. And it got to my friends a lot because I would like choose the males over them. And I was also in high school and. Right.

A (79:37)

That's all that matters at that age.

B (79:39)

Right. So I was just like. It was just terrible. And I don't know, I feel. I feel really bad for how I was in high school.

A (79:47)

And I. I mean, I was shitty too. You just gotta, you know, you just.

B (79:52)

I know. And I. Yeah. So I feel like that's the age

A (79:56)

that you're kind of. It's interesting. Like I feel like that's the age that in a way your childhood dictates who you are. And then it's after that you either grow or you stay.

B (80:07)

Yeah.

A (80:07)

That's kind of what I've realized. Maybe not for everybody, but.

B (80:10)

Right.

A (80:11)

I kind of feel that way in the sense about me too. It's kind of like I was not the greatest. And I look back and it's like. Then it's like at least I went up to. From the hair.

B (80:18)

I know. And I don't know if you can tell. It's like. It's hard for me to even like talk about something.

A (80:22)

I was like that for a long time. It is hard because it's not. It feels like a different part of your life, a different version. It's like it's not who you are today.

B (80:30)

Yes. And yeah.

A (80:31)

But you gotta learn. You know, it's just.

B (80:33)

And I very much. And I think my family, like my sister, my brother, my mom, we Were all kind of like the type to, you gotta touch the stove to learn that it's hot. Right. And I think I liked pushing those boundaries too, with my aunt and my uncle. Because I also was like, I remember I tried joining the Gay Straight alliance club at school, and that was a whole fight with them. And so, you know, like, something that's positive that I'm trying to do, they're arguing with me about because they're super strict, and that's just how they grew up. And then, so for me, it was like, oh, you guys are just like this, and you are gonna judge me if I smoke? I'm literally like 15, sneaking out. And I'm like, why are you guys judgin? Because I'm smoking and stealing your money? Like, woe is me. I was so angry at them, and I wasn't easy. I mean, I don't think they handled me the best. They tried putting me in therapy for a minute, which was beneficial, and then they had to stop. But then they tried putting me in therapy with their priest preacher, and that was like, no, what are we doing here? Like, I'm trying to get to the nitty gritty. I want to cuss a little bit when I'm talking about what happened in my past.

A (81:45)

You should be able to just get it all out.

B (81:46)

You think I'm gonna talk to this creature about what my brother was doing to me under the blanket? No. Like, you guys are tripping. This is not it.

A (81:53)

Yeah.

B (81:53)

So I was angry at them, and my aunt was just. So. She just got to a point, like, she was just so angry at me. I think it felt like she just was disgusted with me because of. They were giving me this opportunity, and I was just.

A (82:09)

They probably, in a way, felt like, is anything we do gonna make a difference at this point?

B (82:15)

Exactly. And I really was. Like, I didn't have any plans after high school. I didn't have the grades or do anything.

A (82:21)

And that's all you knew, that's what you were. Yes. Okay. It's great that you were able to go live with them, but you weren't raised like that. So you don't have that understanding of even how to act in that kind of environment.

B (82:33)

Exactly. And there's a lot of other people, like, just friends along high school. I, like, I'd steal from just to, like, get money for, like, more and just sucks. Like, I think that's one thing. You got to take accountability to grow. And, like, I'm at a really good place in my life now, but I think it's really important to, like, I caused trauma as well, to get to where I'm at just as much as other people caused me trauma. And I did. Like, I hurt a lot of people in high school. And I wish. I mean, if I could sit there and pinpoint, I'd apologize and say I'm sorry over and over again because I am. Like, it sucked being that age and being where I was at and looking back at it, it's just. It's hard. Taylor and Gabby really stuck by me, though. We had our cruel, like, our fights and arguments and whatnot, but they really stuck by me. Taylor and me, we did stop talking at the end of high school, and she moved to Arizona and did her own. Had her own little thing, and we stopped talking for, like, two years. Gabby, towards the end of high school, kind of stayed by my side. I mean, we'd have little tips. I don't know, just random high school tips. But once I graduated, I actually. My uncle told me, you have to move out by, like, June 2nd. I graduated May 18th, 2019.

A (83:50)

Wow.

B (83:51)

And that is my birthday, too. So I'm like. So I was also doing the swim lessons. That was the only way I was making money through high school. I never had a job. I. My extra curricular activity was theater and then getting fucked up with whoever I was partying with that night. And that's what sucks, too. I think at the time. I think Russellville is growing a lot more. I don't really know. I don't really care to go back there. But at the time, there was not much to do there. So this is what everybody would do, which is party. And you have to drive 45 minutes away to get alcohol. So whoever got alcohol, it was like, a big deal. Right. So when I graduate high school, I get to have a group of girlfriends because I had a lot of friends. I did. I was a little crazy. But there were people who tried being there for me, and I connected with. And I got a house with a group of girls.

A (84:42)

So this was right after high school.

B (84:43)

Yep. And I wasn't driving still, Right. So, like, I had Taylor driving me around and my uncle driving me around. I think I tried taking the permit test, like, once in high school, and I failed. And then it just shut my ego down. I was like, man, yeah, I'll do this another time. And, like, there's more important things that matter, right? Yeah. So I. And at that point, I didn't even want to be around my and my uncle. And it sucks because I think in the beginning. Me and my uncle were so close. Like, we really were. We'd have, like, laughing hour, we'd call it when my nana was there. And then I just was going this way in high school, and they couldn't. I mean, this isn't how their kids were, right? So they were like, you need to get the fuck out of here. When June 2nd hits, this is your date. So I go and get a nice little house with a group of girls, and it was just like high school, but, like, times 20 with the partying and, like. And I'm finally starting to realize what paying rent is like and what paying bills are like. All I had was the money from doing my swim lessons. I'd have to get a ride to and from, like, the house I was doing it at. Sometimes my aunt would come get me because they would still try to, like, help me, but they just wanted me out of their house. Like, you need to figure out some responsibility because you didn't do it while you were in high school. You were just doing whatever the fuck you wanted to do, and these are the consequences to your actions. So they would try and help me sometimes. Like, my roommate would give me a ride and. Yeah, so, like, I was really trying to figure this dynamic out. Plus, it was like our first house. It's a group of girls. Like, let's all. Let's party. Like, let's throw parties.

A (86:22)

And you're still so young. You're still at the partying age at that point.

B (86:26)

I turned 18 the day I graduated high school. So I was like, yeah, we were all just like, let's do it. Freedom, right? And Gabby actually, like, had her own house with a group of other girls, too. So, like, it would be, like, between those two houses, but people would go to and stuff, which is cool. And I was just. I was doing drugs still. I was so zoned in on just, like, being fucked up somehow. If it wasn't smoking weed, if it wasn't doing a little cocaine, if it wasn't taking one of my friends Adderalls here and there. Like, it was terrible. I was just doing whatever would fill me at that time. And it got to the point where I got so overwhelmed, like, with everybody coming over. I was stressing over money. I couldn't. I was freaking out because I only had, like, two or three months of rent saved up. It wasn't going to, like, what am I going to do? Like, truly, I was coming to a point. And so I was also. I was talking to this guy through high school. Like, me and him would be on and off. That was a whole thing in itself. And he would come over sometimes to that house when we would throw parties. And like, he treated me super. He was just. I thought he was my best friend, but he was just using me like friends with benefits. But he would treat me like crap. And he ended up. I had some money stashed for my rent and he ended up taking. It was like $700. And he ended up taking it. And that was like a whole thing for me. And it really shut me down. And I didn't know what I was gonna do. Like, I don't have an incoming job, I don't have a family or parents. Like a lot of people around there that can help or are going to help. My aunt and my uncle were mad at me at this point and were like, consequences to your actions. My uncle loves to say that. So. And I also wasn't taking care of myself. Like, I was so I was. I mean, I'd be skinny and then I would be binge eating. I would be like activities, nothing. I remember I actually went to the army recruiter once just to be like, what's going on? And then they talked to me about a PT test. And I was like, yeah, like that. Like I can't even run. What are you talking about? I did not take care of myself at all. And you start to realize, like, I think growing into myself and learning to love myself, like at that time I did not care. I did not love myself. I didn't want to take care of myself. I just wanted to like, fill the void in my head, right? So with that group of house, with that group of girls, I literally packed all my stuff up one day and I called my sister and my mom. Something somehow that worked out. Like it somehow I got in contact with them. I can't really remember what it was. I was so fog minded. Like, it's hard to even think of things when I. Cause I was just on one all the time. I wasn't drinking. I was doing this, I was doing. It was crazy. So I somehow I just dip out. I don't tell those girls anything. I don't. I mean, I signed a lease with them. I did all this stuff and I just leave because I couldn't handle the partying. I couldn't handle all the people coming over and then like the drama that would just happen between guys and how I was getting treated and like everything else. And I just wasn't ready. And I just dipped out. I didn't say anything to Anyone. And you know, it sucks I did that. But at the time I just. I needed to go. I had to leave. I felt like. So I go to my sister's in a little apartment. She's got two kids, she's got her own drama going on. She left her first baby daddy with my two nieces and she's trying to figure herself out, but she lets me in. It's one thing about my sister, she did always try. She never said no to me if I needed help, right? And what struggled with me is too my brother. I would hear that my brother was still doing the same type of stuff, but with his girlfriends now, or would come in and out with my mom. But I was so I didn't care. I didn't want to hear it. I would just. I don't know the details. I know he's just still fucking up and that's all I need to know to be away from him. So that's cool. So with my sister, I was there for literally maybe a month after I left Russville. So I went back to Fayetteville. Two hour drive. I think. Honestly, I think one of my friends just ended up driving me to Fayetteville, to my sister's house. And everyone kind of just said bye to me. And then I was gone.

A (90:54)

Yeah.

B (90:55)

And I was freaking out. I was like, this is not. After a month of being with my sister, I'm like, this is not what I need to do. And Gabby, she got ahold of me and I was like talking to her a lot and she was like, why are you there? Because she kind of knew a little bit of my family dynamic and she was just like, I don't know if this is good for you. And I was like, yeah, you're telling me. And she's like, my age, we're both so young. And she's like, why don't you come back to Russell and come stay with me? And she comes, she picks me up, drives two hours away. So here I go again. And I'm starting to make these habits, right? Like from what I was doing or having to deal with at a younger as a child, I'm starting to like,

A (91:36)

repeat the pattern, right?

B (91:37)

And I'm like, I just. I didn't know what to do. So Gabby, she really, she really pulled through for me. She can't. I mean, that's her story. But she came from. She had her own issues, but she knew, like, you gotta get your shit going, you gotta work, like, you gotta do your thing. And so I go and she had her house? Cause like I said, it was our two houses. And I actually was staying at that house with her once she picked me up and she got me my first job at McAllister's Deli, and we started working there together. So I was having a steady income. I went, opened up my first bank account with her. She was really showing me how to do the adult thing. Look, I get this isn't how it is or what you were shown and you weren't wanting to see from your aunt and your uncle. But like, look. Cause you know, we were still smoking, we'd have a good time. But she was also like, it was.

A (92:27)

I think it's helpful when it's somebody that's your age so you're able to kind of do it together versus feeling like, ugh, an adult is telling me, I don't wanna listen.

B (92:35)

Yeah. And at the time too, Gabbie was so, like, known and super. She was beautiful. Like, she still is. But, like, I respected her a lot. I really did. I looked up to her a lot. And the fact she was taking me in meant so much to me. And I was also doing before I got. I was smoking almost every, like, morning to night. And she was like, we need to stop that. And I first time Since I was 11 to 18, I stopped smoking and we, like, took a drug test together. And like, I passed and we were both so happy. And then months later, like, we were like, should we get high? And then we got high and it was like the first time again because it had been so long. So it was nice because I'm finally doing my thing. And then so we end up moving, like with. We move out of that house into another house with a bunch of girls. And that was kind of a messed up situation. But we kind of did what we had to do and it was Covid was about to start happening. Keep in mind, I had never been in a relationship. I've never had a boyfriend. I've never, like. I've just kind of had flings. I. I never had a guy at this point come up to me and be like, I'm infatuated with you. I love you. You're pretty. I always was kind of just the homegirl, like, everybody was cool with. I had a lot of guy friends.

A (93:55)

And at this point. Had you ever told anyone about what happened with you and your brother or.

B (94:00)

No. I think I opened up a little bit to Gabby about it. She knew, like, the neglect, I can't remember. Eventually she, like, knows that he sexually abused me, but I Don't know. At that time, I think that was just a conversation.

A (94:20)

But she knew, like, that there was issues there.

B (94:23)

Yeah, I'm not good with being a victim. Yeah, I am. I'm not very good with it. I just, you know, I didn't like to put that out there. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online@state farm.com. like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Yeah. Me and Gabby are like living together, doing this thing. She's helped me get a job. And like I said, boys, not very good with. I started talking to this guy. That's all okay. But it's an important part of the story. It's an important part of the story. So I have to fucking talk about it. I don't. We. We were together for three years after we first met. He's a big part of everything, unfortunately. But, you know, you gotta go through. Gotta go through it to learn it.

A (95:28)

Yeah.

B (95:28)

And I'm just glad I'm out of that. So me and Gabby would throw parties and stuff. We were also working. I eventually quit the deli and started working as a CNA. Also. Covid's about to happen, right? Cause it's like 2020 around there.

A (95:42)

Yeah.

B (95:43)

And so I meet this guy Henry. Definitely gonna say his name. Cause I wanna expose this motherfucker. Cause he sucks.

A (95:50)

Henry it is.

B (95:51)

I don't know. I don't even hear from him. I haven't heard anything from him for years. I hope he's not dead. I don't really care other than that. Right. So I meet him and he. Like, we would see each other through high school. So I knew of him a few years older than me. He was really artistic, super popular. Like, I very much was like, how could someone like him like me, like, truly, it was such a. Because I was so. Like, the only other guy I was really into in high school was a scrawny, like, druggie type of dude. So when Henry came, it's like, came from a good family. He had, like, seemed like at the time, priorities and dreams and goals. And he was a little artistic. And I was in theater and it was just like, ah. So me and Gabby were living together when I met him. So we started, you know, Talking. I don't even really remember how we started even flirting with each other. But all I know is we were hooking up and we were wanting to be a thing. It was like the first guy that, like, really wanted my attention and wanted to, like, he took me on my first date ever. He actually did stuff with me. And for me, it's like, oh, I thought you just kind of like, Right. And Gabby would try. Cause she was in relationships, and she knew how to handle herself with boys. And so she would try and tell me, you know, like, this is how it should be. So she, you know, saw that I wasn't very. I don't know, good or had a relationship before. So at first, she really encouraged it. So the night we actually started dating, I remember this night because Gabby threw a party. I'm a CNA now, working at a nursing home. And Gabby threw this huge party, and Covid just happened. And small town. Somehow one of our roommates who we were living with got tested positive for Covid. And this is like, Covid just happened. So it's all scary, blah, blah. And it goes, like, all over social media. And we have to stay in our house for a month. Henry was with me and asked me out that night at the party. One of his best friends, and then, like, four of us roommates. So we were all stuck in that house for a month together. After our first night of dating, we are stuck together for a month. Yay. Like, it was terrible. Plus, I was a cna, so all these nurses are super mad at me because I worked in a nursing home. Gabby's getting a bunch of backlash because she threw the party like we had. She had people, like, messaging her moms, being like, how could you this and that. It was crazy. It was on the news. It was terrible. But our neighbors were watching us to make sure we were staying inside. It was horrible. So how mine and his relationship started was already just, like, toxic, right? Like, this is terrible. And I think at this point, alcohol was super involved with me and Gabby in our life, and I think she was kind of going through her own thing with that. So we were still, you know, best friends, but we also were kind of doing our own thing. I was with Henry all the time, and he. His parents did not approve the relationship. Super Christian, too. It was a big family, a whole bunch of siblings, and they lived, like, a few houses down from our house. So they knew our house to be what it was, like, this party house, college, or. Yeah, whatever. And there were times he would be over there and like his parents come knocking at the front door, like, where's. And he. I was 19 when we met. 19, 18. And he was 23. He was a little older than me, I think. Yeah, 23. So I, for me, it's like, dude, this is a grown ass man. Like, what if. Because look at where I came from. I don't think of like, my parents

A (99:34)

aren't knocking the door right.

B (99:35)

But in their heads, I would say, like, they, they have money, they paid for his college for him to do stuff for his car. So they're like, what is he doing? Like, this is not how we live. So they would be coming to our front door, like, trying to get Henry out. And we're also just drinking and partying this whole time. I remember when we were stuck in that house for a month. Like, we woke up, what else is there to do? Yeah, start drinking. Like, it was terrible. I gained a bunch of weight. Like I'm in this relationship now and I'll never. It's just so weird talking about, talking about it all. But. So, yeah, it was already super and Gabby was going through her own things and she was going back and forth with moving back home to St. Louis. And you know, I'd bring it up to her a little bit because I knew some things was going on. It would suck, but I felt like I also had Henry and it's the first man in my life ever. And it sucks, but he was who I wanted to be with. I love Gabby to death, but like I was choosing him over everything. I really was. I. I was ready, like, I don't know, picture, you know, the house and the picket fence that I've never had and to be a couple. And I'm so young too, thinking this, but I just, when I first met him, like, I didn't even think a guy would even look at me, would even want anything like that. So he made it seem like we were about to date and be in this relationship and we were going to be making steps to do that. But we were also living this super toxic lifestyle. And he ended up just staying at my house all the time, not working, not paying for anything. He had a vehicle because keep in mind, I still don't have a freaking license at this point. And I was just working. I'd walk to work, sometimes I'd get a ride from them. I'd worked 16 hour shifts being a CNA. Now it was more of a big girl job than working at the deli, right? But once Covid hit, I did not want to do that anymore. Because I mean, nursing home people were just going. And it was hard for me. I didn't like it. And so the first time Henry cheated on me, I. Dude, it wasn't even like two months in our relationship and he was at my house hanging out all the time, chilling. I come home and I worked a 16 hour shift, so 7 to 7am and I was about to have to go back into work at 2. And I remember that so vividly because I'm like, how could you do this? And I come to bed and I like get ready to fall asleep for the day and then wake back up. And I look at his phone and I don't know, I was just like, there's something going on. Like I had this weird feeling there was something on there. He's getting notifications. Something made me be like, I need to check his phone. I check his phone. And he literally was just snapchatting this girl, being like, yeah, so let me know whenever you're off your period and you can hop on this dick. That was the first. Yeah. And it's like a joke now to me and all my friends. Cause it's like, yo, remember the first. And that was the first of many. Cause this is my first relationship. It's the first guy who's. And then he. Once I found that out, we get into this big fight. I come back home the next night, I have flowers and a Big Mac. And he's like doing all these things that are super sweet. So like I should forgive him, right? You know what I mean? Like, that's my mindset. And that was just like our relationship for the longest time. All through 2020, he's just living with me, I'm supporting us and he's cheating on me and we're just drinking all the time. That was our relationship. And his parents are like constantly trying to fight with us. Constantly trying to get him out of the house. And then he'd come back. And I was so attached to him because this is the first man that's like I'm in love with. And he's making me feel like I'm loved and sexually too. I'm feeling more open with him. And he is who I really started to talk about all the details with. And keep in mind, I haven't really no idea about my father at all. I've never met him. I've never. I don't know anything. I don't know the details besides what I've learned when I was little. So I think that had a lot to do with me getting attached to him the way I did, too. Absolutely.

A (103:38)

Yeah.

B (103:39)

So I get a call one day from my mom, and I was starting to talk to my mom a little bit more. I'm getting older, you know, I'm, like, trying to have a little bit of a relationship with her, growing more empathy. I get a call from her, and she's like, hey, your dad's sister wants to get ahold of you. Like, they want to talk to you, dude. I've never even talked to nothing on my dad's side of the family. What the hell? So she, like, talks to me and she's like, hey, we really want to meet you guys. Like, I really want to meet you. You have a whole other side of. We all want to get to know you, like, all this stuff. I'm like, holy crap. Like, I've never. I've never had that. Yeah, okay, bet. And me and Henry, too. Like, we're not doing anything. I'm just going to work. We have roommates. Gabby eventually ends up moving back to St. Louis. So I don't even really have Gabby to kind of. And, you know, she was going through her own stuff. She's not going to sit here. And so I just got to a point, too, where I was like, I don't know what's going to happen. Like, he's not doing. He's not working. He's not going to school. I'm here. Like, what? Why shouldn't I open up and see what's on the other side of my dad's side of the family? I was just stagnant, like, not doing anything. So when I got that call, I was like, all right, let me try and open this door. So I talked with my aunt on the phone. First time talking to her. Never knew any of them. My mom just kept it from me. And she immediately wants to help me. Wants to help me with rent, wants to help me with bills, wants to fly me out there. Me and Henry pay for all of it. Fly me out there, meet all of them. And I. Like, I didn't know any of the details of my father's situation. I knew he did this. I saw some things happen. So, like, I know it happened, right? As crazy as my brother and my sister, my mom are, you don't just get sent to prison for 42 years for nothing, right?

A (105:31)

Yeah.

B (105:31)

So I, like, go. And I remember when I told my mom I was going. They were going to fly me out for that Thanksgiving that was coming up and fly me and Henry both out. So Henry came With me when I met all of them at first. So he's experiencing all this with me. Right. And I remember talking to my mom about it. And, you know, she's distraught because this is the one thing she's wanted to keep from me my whole life and protect me from and yada, yada. So during this time, I find out. So we fly out there, My aunt starts helping me. We start building a connection, and me and Henry fly out there for Thanksgiving. I meet my cousins. Like, I have all this stuff, and so I start asking questions, like, so what happened? Basically in their heads. My dad did not do it. My brother, my sister, my mom are crazy. And they came up with this story and put him in prison. And I was like, oh, And I'm not gonna come out and be like. And try and fight all these people on, like, hey, that's not the truth. Especially I'm not close with my family. Yeah. Like, it's just me, to be honest. I've been like a lone wolf this whole time. So why am I gonna sit here and, like, try and stick up for things? My sister's never got into detail with me and opened up to me about all of it. So I felt super, just like, okay. Like, very combative in my head. And then come to find out he's been out of prison for, like, five years. And he has a wife and he has a house, a nice big house. He has a whole bunch of cars. He's living. Living great, having a great life.

A (107:03)

And your mom had no idea.

B (107:05)

I think she knew he was married. I think she did.

A (107:11)

He had been out for five years,

B (107:12)

like, when I was in high school. He got out. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like. I got pissed.

A (107:19)

How early did he get out?

B (107:21)

I think when I was 16.

A (107:22)

Okay, so that would have been what, like, 30 years? Like, he was sentenced to what, 42.

B (107:28)

Yeah, he only served 10 years. Sorry, I should have said that. Okay. He only served 10 years of that. Good behavior, the whole shebang, blah, blah. Right. And then he has a wife who the would want to marry somebody like I was. So, like, what the actual.

A (107:43)

Right. And then just. I think, too. It's hurtful, dude.

B (107:47)

I couldn't eat some days.

A (107:49)

Yeah.

B (107:50)

And you have a great life. I'm your. I'm hurt. His only blood. I'm his only. He doesn't have any other kids. They never had kids. They had animals in this house. And.

A (108:02)

Okay, so you find this out.

B (108:04)

He's 30. So he got out when he was, like, 38, 39.

A (108:07)

Okay.

B (108:07)

Bro. Him and his wife met when she was 22 years old. I am 19, 20. When I'm like, when I meet him. So I'm like, I'm just battling this internally. And then I also have this relationship going on with Henry, and I'm just kind of dragging him with me because he's not doing anything to, like, put his feet on the ground too, and, like, stand up and be a man and be supportive. And I think I just made it really easy for him to just, like, tag along. Yeah. And it was. I was so in love with him. I would have done anything terrible. So I go. We go there and they're telling me all this about my dad. And they're like, so, like, do you want to meet him? And I'll never forget. I was like, all right, like, let's do this. We meet and he brings his wife and stuff, and we're in a hotel. And I remember, like, just being so anxious, but also being so calm. And when he walked. When my dad walked through the door, I mean, you can't. You. I'm obviously his kid. You can tell. We have such features. Like, our teeth are the same. It's crazy. And he hugged me and I hugged him. And Henry started crying, and I just didn't have much emotion. Obviously, this is a huge deal. I haven't seen him since I was 6 years old. No idea what was happening. He has this wife. His wife has apparently been trying to look for me all this time, ever since she's heard the story of me. Because he. I don't figure this out. I figure this out the next day after I meet him. So we hug. We like, have this moment. Like, holy shit. We're face to face now after all this time. I'm like, no, yada, yada. I can't be around him. He's the most dangerous man in the world. I'm like, fuck it. Like, I'm gonna meet this man. So we finally do. And then that next day, we, like, all go to the beach. And I'll never forget this moment. This is a really big moment in my life. I. You know, and Henry's still just with us randomly, like, not doing anything. They're paying for all of his stuff too. We are grown ass adults. Like, he's older than me. Yeah, what are we doing? Right? But whatever. And I go up to my dad. We're standing on the beach, and I go, so, like, we're having a conversation. I finally go, so, like, did you do it? He was like, no. In that moment, I was like, this motherfucker is lying to everybody. He is lying to everyone. He is really around here, sitting here saying that, like, my brother, my sister, my mom came up with this shit and put him in prison. And that was that. And, like, there were little stories because you gotta remember, like, they had friends. So like, my mom, my dad, collectively together. So people would come to my mom and tell stories about him that just. It all added up to. There's too many people that knew that he did this, like, for it not to be true. Especially back at home. So they're in North Carolina, him. And so we fly from Arkansas to North Carolina. So he has, like, a huge separation. It's not like he's just convinced all these people over here that these people lied and put him in prison and kept his daughter away from him. And it's like, bro, I wish that was the truth. Like, let's be so for real. Like, I wish that was the truth. So in that moment when he told me that I was. Was like. And also, Henry came from. He wasn't exposed to any of this stuff. His. And thankfully, like, his parents, nobody should have to, right? But, like, I would try and talk to him about it and stuff.

A (111:34)

He just didn't get it.

B (111:35)

Homeboy didn't know what was going on. Like, he was just there for the ride. And also, like, this is happening. It's a huge, monumental, like, moment in my life. Henry's also, like, cheating on me, lying to me. And I'm just, like, kind of knowing and not caring anymore. So we have, like a week there, and then we end up flying back home and still the same thing. And I just like. And me and my dad's wife immediately, like, connected. I was still super angry, though. Like, who the fuck is this chick that, like, is getting spoiled from my dad? And I had to literally go without because of who he is. Make this make sense. He hasn't had to do child support. Not a thing. Nothing. Like, he was in prison. Like, are you. Like, I was so bitter. I was so bitter. And so it was hard for me to break that wall down with her. But I say stayed in contact. And I kept my mouth shut because I'm not about to blow up this world as much as I wanted to. But in that moment, I was like, I'm going to come for everything that you have. I am not going to just go without my life and, like, be where I'm at and be stagnant and you be able to live this great life

A (112:39)

and pretend like you did Nothing wrong.

B (112:41)

Yeah, I was pissed, dude.

A (112:43)

Yeah.

B (112:44)

So I. I go back home with Henry and me and are talking to through phone and my dad. Like I never really felt like he ever cared about me. I mean, if he cared about me, he wouldn't have done all this stuff all those years ago. And I was kind of okay with that in my head. I was just like, I cried my tears for you when I was little. Oh, I don't really care to anymore. And he's playing this huge facade. And this is a little like my mind was so dark back then. I mean not. But really like four or five years ago. It really was. I was in this relationship and I just was like in my head I was just gonna get what I deserved. And I don't care who I hurt in the way. And you are the biggest fuck up in my life. So I'm gonna come for you. And you're playing this facade to everybody on this side. I'm gonna play this facade too. So me and would talk and eventually she was like, why don't you move out here? You and Henry move out here and we'll help you guys get started. So literally November, we come back, we move back out there, New Year's. Cause I'm like, it's a way better deal, like right what I'm doing, I don't know. Me and Henry have no stability. We have nothing.

A (113:53)

Were you talking to your mom at this point? Like, did you?

B (113:55)

A little bit. But I kept everything from them.

A (113:58)

Okay, so your mom didn't know you were going to live with him?

B (114:01)

I was like with my aunt and they were kind of helping. So I'd go back and forth.

A (114:05)

Got it.

B (114:05)

But I would keep it very like, yeah, y' all don't know. I'm with him. I barely talk to him because like that would be a whole blow up in itself. My mom very much like wore my ex husband did this and this on her chest. So like it really messed with her so I couldn't. I'm not gonna. I'm good at keeping my mouth shut and just staying in my lane. And I'm not about to like get you involved so you can get all emotionally like trauma'd out again. And she doesn't handle it very well anyways. So I was like, yeah, no. So I didn't like, I didn't talk to them for a minute again. I would be in and out, just check in, make sure basically like you're not sick or alive. But I really didn't talk to them. I was doing My own thing, especially, like, with Henry. I even, like, me and Gabby kind of. We were still always talking, but we kind of stopped talking there for a little bit. And so, yeah, I'm in this horrible relationship and then they move us there, they try and help us out, and I'm just like, bitter. I'm just. I was not in the mindset to really do anything. I was just like, fuck this, fuck that. Like, me and Henry are here, I deserve it, blah, blah, blah. And. Which isn't just. You can't force that. You know what I mean? He did what he did, but you can't force and have that negative. Like, I'm gonna take it. That's not how the world works. That's not. You gotta let things come out and be how they need to be. So with Henry there, Henry made it really, really hard. I wasn't even able to focus on what was going on. And I mean, granted, he did move away from his family and stuff, so he was having his own. But he was also just like, constantly cheating on me and constantly, like, lying to me. And like, we both were gaining weight. We both weren't taking care of each other or taking care of ourselves. He was. He was also, I think he was a sex addict. Like, if I didn't make him nut at least once a day, it was an issue with us. So that was also in my head too. And this is what I'm So. This is how men love me. This is what I'm supposed to do in my head if I want the. I was full on ready and I say this and I just. I can't believe I was full on ready to be that woman that just, like, gets cheated on by her man. Like, I was full on ready for that. We end up getting pregnant. I get pregnant and the first while I'm there, so I can't even focus anymore. And I take the test and I'm like, shit. You know? And the first thing he says is, my family won't accept this. No comfort, nothing. He's just like, we have to do something about this. This can't. And I was so infatuated with him, I would have done anything. So we had an abortion. And, you know, I hesitate to bring it up and stuff, but I think it's important because.

A (116:53)

Absolutely.

B (116:54)

It's one of, like, the hardest things I've ever done in my life. I think if he wasn't influencing me and I wasn't so in love with him, I would have had that baby and I would have thrived with Him. But I loved him so much, and I chose his values. Dude, I get this abortion, and he leaves a week after that because he told me his grandpa was sick and he had a date for when he was going to fly back out. That date came, and he tells me he's not coming back. And he didn't have a plane ticket this whole time. Yeah. So I've never been suicidal. I've never been super depressed. I want to kill myself. I'm on birth control now because I just had an abortion. Like, this was terrible. And how could you just leave me here after we moved here? Like, are you. What? Like, I was heartbroken. Couldn't even focus on my dad and his wife. And I just was like, this is terrible. Gabby gets ahold of me again, and she's like, come stay with me. Like, come to St. Louis because you're not safe there. Like, because I opened up to her about my dad, and she knew that situation, so she was like, I just don't like it. You should just come live with me and my parents. So again, she helps me out. I go there and I get close with her family and stuff, and then I kind of leave my dad's situation kind of back. I'd stay in touch with his wife, but not very much him, because I was honestly just embarrassed. I was embarrassed of how we were living. I was embarrassed of, like, using all of their stuff and, like, not having any drive. And I just was like, I was so just mentally down and not knowing what I was gonna do. So I just kinda dipped out. I moved to St. Louis with Gabby, and, I mean, she tries to get me going and all this stuff, and me and Henry rekindle, and same old, same old. He ends up cheating on me. I mean, it's just same story, different chat. Like, I could not get away from this kid. It did not matter how much he hurt me. I was just ready, like, to be with him, be there. And he would drive from Arkansas to St. Louis to see me. So. Oh, my gosh. Like, you're making this jar, right? Eventually, though, I wasn't really doing anything with Gabby in St. Louis. So I was like, okay, I need to go. Like, I'm hurting you, I'm hurting myself. And I dip out on her, and I don't do it in a really good way. I just wasn't taking care of myself, and I could feel it. So I hit up my sister. My sister, of course, was like, come on, just come stay with me and get a job or whatever. So I leave Gabby's and those habits. I'm starting again from when I was a child, and it's just. It's. It just sucks how much it affected me. I get a job working at a fast food restaurant, and I think it was Popeye's. Yeah, Popeyes. And I'm walking to and from work for my sister, so I'm starting to, you know, make some type of income again, do little independence. But I'm also still with Henry, who's holding me back so much. And he just also wouldn't let me go. I wouldn't let him go. He'd cheat on me. We'd break up, we'd get back together. He would. Like, he used me our whole relationship. And I don't know, it sucked. It sucks thinking about it because I put so much faith and effort into someone I just really shouldn't have, and I should have been doing it to myself.

A (120:04)

Well, I want to mention, too, because I know that you just said, like, it sucks how much everything affected you, you know, with even you just not being able to stay in one place and constantly moving. But the fact you're only 24. Right. Right now, like, the fact that you're only 24 and you have all these realizations, like, that's still amazing and young, because there are some people that they don't. They don't come full circle and have those realizations till they're like, 40s, 50, you know what I mean? So it's amazing that you can still reflect. You still have so much life left.

B (120:34)

Yeah.

A (120:34)

You know, not to go through those patterns. Like, a lot of people don't break those off that early.

B (120:39)

And to be honest, I didn't think I ever would.

A (120:41)

Yeah.

B (120:41)

In that moment in time, I was like, this is.

A (120:44)

You just. Were you probably at one of your lowest with yourself?

B (120:47)

I really was. And I didn't look. It was just awful. And so finally my mom got a little apartment. And at this point, like, my brother, I have no idea where he's at. Like, he's moved out for my mom. My mom's dealing with stuff on her own, and I, me and Henry go and stay with my mom in her little apartment for maybe like a month, and I get a different job, and I get this job at the library there in favor. And it's a huge library. I was like security and events. And so I had, like, a really nice job. And I love this job. This job changed my life. This is really where it starts getting good. And the best thing he did was leave and block me if there's anything good that that man did for me, it is that. And thank you for it. Like everything else, I could never treat a human like that the way that I loved him and him. But he just one day, like, he was using my family stuff. He was using me. I start working at this library. I'm walking to and from work because it was like, you know, a university town. So I was able to walk. I was, like, working my ass off, and I was saving up, and I was finally able to get an apartment, and I was actually getting the apartment below my mom's. So I'm like, you know, just having a little bit of something come together for me, right? And then he. He leaves. He just, like, he's there one day, he texts me, and he's like, I'm done. Like, I'm done with this. He like, to. I. I saw on his phone, like, he was talking to the girls and stuff and come to find out, one of the girls I saw, and I just feel for her now, and I never, like, I keep it to myself, but he was messaging her. And I stopped posting on social media like, a year before that. So me and him aren't even. A lot of people don't even know we were still together after everything. So he. After. He left me, like, two months after we break up, he's, like, with another girl that he was texting, and apparently they've been dating for months. It doesn't add up in my book. And then a month later, I feel like they got married.

A (122:50)

Wow.

B (122:51)

I was like, that's. I was like, all right. And that hurt so bad. But I also was like, all right, I'm about to walk in. And I got this apartment all by myself, saved up money. I started working out. I was walking to and from work. I had responsibility. I had, like, a purpose. I got my cat, my first cat, my one animal. And it was like, well, at least I need to come home to him if he. Like, at that point, if I have to do this because my cat needs me, it really came to that, and. And I did it. Like, I saved up the money for that. I didn't have anybody help me. I didn't want anything from my dad and his wife because they just did the most for me, and I just kind of fucked up. But this whole point, I isolate myself, and his wife is the only one that's messaging me and, like, talking to me and, like, trying to help me get through stuff. And it was hard because I feel like we. I was always kind of Had a connection with her. But I was so irritated that, like, she didn't know the truth.

A (123:47)

Yeah.

B (123:47)

And that she's just believing this man. So a year of me isolating myself, working, working out, doing my thing. I stopped drinking. I stopped doing all of it. I stopped hanging out with people. And I just zoned in. And then I went. I'd start. I'd go and I'd visit them because I was like, you know what? Let me just see what's up. And I. It was nice. Like, there were times I feel like, with my father, he would convince me and I'd be like, you know what if. Like that. Because they seem like they just have it together. This could be the family that I've always wanted. But the universe, God, whatever, always made me realize, like, remember who this man is. Like.

A (124:24)

Yeah. Remember, don't forget. Yeah.

B (124:26)

I didn't realize there were things going on in their marriage at all. Like, she kind of kept that away from me for a minute. So I'm in this apartment and she's like, hey, backtrack. One of the times I go and visit, I end up meeting a guy. It's a family friend or whatever. And we really click it off. He's my boyfriend to this day. He was in the Coast Guard. He's, like, super admirable. He's the best. I love him. So I meet him and then I, like, go back home. So that was, like, on my head and having a life out here, and my head is screwed on different now. I'm like, I isolated myself. I feel like I disciplined myself on my own without having anybody's help and, like, doing my own thing. And I just was like, I wanna. I wanna future. I don't wanna be doing this for the rest of my life. I was also, like, at work, I'm walking, like, 30,000 steps a day. I'm working my ass off, not getting paid for the work I'm doing. I couldn't even think about school because money. Mm. So I just was starting to think of my future. And I was just starting to lock in and just start, like. Because I never did before. And I wanted to break that cycle. So his wife was like, why don't we move you up here? Like, you could have a life here. You met your boyfriend. You met. Like, you have us. Like, let's see what's up. And I thought about it. I was like, you know what? Like, I'm gonna do it. I'm doing it on my own. I'm not doing it in this horrible situation. And so I had come up also Taylor, my friend from high school, she was the only other person that started checking in on me as well in my time of isolation. So it was really cool because I had her, and me and Gabby had to take space from each other because I dipped out on her. So her and my dad's wife really helped motivate me while I had no one just to get my shit together. So his wife was like, why don't you move up here? You know, we can help you or whatever. And so I move up here. I have, like, a nice little spot. Somehow, around that year of isolation, I ended up with two more cats and a dog.

A (126:28)

Love.

B (126:29)

It happened.

A (126:29)

Sound like me.

B (126:30)

It happened.

A (126:31)

It does happen.

B (126:31)

So they also were like, more support, help with responsibility, animals, yada, yada, come up there. And I just was the mindset, you know what? I don't have this bitter mind where I'm like, I want to take all of your stuff. Because I'm also getting closer to his wife, like, me and her. I mean, like, she's my stepmom to me, despite all of it. And not to sound like that, but I didn't even have to say anything. She eventually came to me and was like, I want to divorce your dad. It's terrible. And, like, I would pick up on things he, like, he wouldn't treat. He wasn't like, dude, I'm your daughter. Yeah, that you've never met. Why aren't you, you know, more involved?

A (127:11)

Or.

B (127:12)

I was fine with it. Cause I kind of knew this whole time, right in my head, I'm like, yeah. Like, I know who this man is. But like I said, I can play this part just as right.

A (127:19)

Let me take the benefits of it.

B (127:21)

So it was hard because I always wanted to tell her. I always wanted to just tell her, like, girl, this is not. Yeah, like, go. As soon as she said that, I was like, yeah, I get that. You totally shouldn't, like, a thousand percent. And remember, she's like, when I came in and she saw. Because she saw me all those years ago with Henry and how I was. So when I came back, I've lost weight. I have a whole different mindset. I'm, like, ready to go. And we started going to the gym together. And I think. I mean, don't get me wrong, she did this all on her own. But I think it inspired her, too, in a way, because, like, she saw where I was, and she like, it's never too late. It doesn't matter how old you are. She's been with this man for, like, almost a decade now, and she's just feeling like he's just eating. Sucking the life out of her. And he just. He. He's not an emotional man. Like, he was in prison for 10 years. That already messes you up. Up as it is. And this whole time, too, once I. I'm starting to build more of a relationship with my mom, my sister, and I'm. I open up to them about my brother, and it was this.

A (128:22)

So you tell them?

B (128:23)

Yeah, I would call them and stuff and text them. And throughout this moment in time, I'm like, you know, because I'm just. I'm finding my voice. I'm finding myself. I'm feeling more comfortable.

A (128:32)

So what was their response to that?

B (128:34)

My mom, they. For the first time, they, like, literally were like, you're not full of shit. You're not this little girl. Like, we believe you. We're so sorry. Like, it was super fulfilling. And they talked to him, my brother, about it, and he didn't deny it. He admitted it. So it's even more validating for me. Right? Like, finally, you guys know, like, y' all did not treat me well. This is why I stepped away from you guys. And I went. Went other directions. So we're like. It's hard because, you know, they know I'm kind of figuring my stuff out, my dad's side of the family. But it's hard for them because of all the stuff that's happening. But they're starting to understand because my brother did it to me, too, so it was hard. But I'm.

A (129:19)

Now. Did he. You might be getting to this, but did he ever. Do you said that he did sexually abuse your sister as well, or. No.

B (129:26)

No.

A (129:27)

Just you?

B (129:27)

No, just me. And then. I know. I think I was, like, the youngest that he. But he, like, would go and come to find out some of my mom's friends, like, he would go in and mess with their feet while they were sleeping. And, yeah, it got like, he needed help. It was serious. It wasn't like he would spend thousands of dollars, like, for feet stuff. And, yeah, like, this was obviously an issue. This isn't just like, you know, and it's sad. And he was drinking all the time and doing whatever. So he, like, around this time of me living here, I'm hearing stuff about him, and it sucks because he got accused of doing something to a little girl, and he got sentenced to, like, prison for it. So when I messaged you that day to come here, he got sentenced guilty because he went to trial because he said he wasn't. He went to trial because he was gonna fight for it and because he like swears up and down and it was so hard. My mom, my sister. Because like he didn't do it. I don't know. I can't sit here and be like, yeah, he didn't do that.

A (130:37)

Right.

B (130:38)

He did it to me. But they, you know, and he.

A (130:40)

It's hard.

B (130:41)

It's hard. And it was. I mean, I still feel weird about it. Like I grew up with him, I saw him as a kid and now he got sentenced is 25 years in March. He.

A (130:49)

So he's away.

B (130:50)

Yeah.

A (130:51)

So while I'm here and he has five kids.

B (130:54)

Yeah. And I never saw him take any initiative.

A (130:57)

Like, you know what's, what's scary and sad is, you know, like I don't, I mean I guess would you be considered a pedophile? Like if you're doing like, I guess, like I don't know.

B (131:09)

He was 14, 15, 16 when he was doing it to me. And I was so young.

A (131:15)

I don't know, I just wonder like if it is true. If he did it to a child.

B (131:20)

Yeah, like a thousand percent.

A (131:22)

And if he has this foot fetish to an extreme.

B (131:25)

It's like he was doing to grown ass adults.

A (131:27)

Well, it makes you wonder too. It's like, you know, in, in his. And who knows? Like I could. This is just like my own thoughts that I'm thinking now I'm just thinking out loud. But it's like he might think in his mind like, oh, it's just an obsession or a fetish with feet. It's not super, it's not like super sexual. You know what I mean? Like people like, you never know if he could be justifying it in his mind. But he doesn't like the trauma that it's inflicted. Like it is sexual abuse, you know. And it's scary because it makes you wonder. Like especially since he has kids and it's like not to be like silly, but he has access to all these feet and if that's his thing, you don't, you know.

B (132:07)

And nobody likes. He never got help. He never stopped. He never, he never got sober. He never, he was in and out of jail for random shit all the time before. Like I just stayed away from it.

A (132:19)

When he got sentenced, was he in a relationship with anybody?

B (132:23)

No, he was like, it was his ex wife, girlfriend, I don't even know, but like ex baby mama who like accused him of doing it to like her family members. And like, to this. And like, yeah, that was a super dysfunctional relationship. So, yeah, it's easy for my mom, my sister to be like, yeah, I don't think he did this. And he probably didn't do it. Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna sit here. I don't. I don't know.

A (132:47)

Right, right. You only know what happened to you.

B (132:50)

And that's where I'm at. Yeah, I feel.

A (132:52)

And so how did you feel when he got sentenced?

B (132:56)

I felt. I mean, it's weird thinking of somebody that you grew up with like that be in a spot like that. With my father, it's like that was how my life started and that was that. But like with him, it's like, it's a little like, damn. Like at first.

A (133:10)

Did you and him ever have a conversation about what he did to you when you were a child?

B (133:18)

No, never. Like, details. And if I came around, like to see my mom or my sister, like, he was there. But I was very standoffish.

A (133:26)

Okay, so you guys never kind of.

B (133:28)

Only with my mom, my sister, I talk. And they probably like brought it up to him a lot because they wanted. My mom's always just wanted all of us to be together. But unfortunately that's just not the case for us.

A (133:38)

The reason your dad went to prison was that because your mom found out what he was doing to your sister.

B (133:44)

So. Yeah. And okay, so his wife, right, is going through this stuff because I still don't really know all the details. All I know is that he did this and went through prison. Right. She's wanting to divorce him. He's also like cheating and doing all this stuff. Keep in mind, I don't know full details of really what happened with my father. I'm talking to my sister and my mom more. We're building this relationship and then finally like some a huge blow up, like him doing something disrespectful to his wife. She was like, I'm done. I want to leave separates. And I just kept battling with myself because I was like, I knew the truth. Like, I knew he did this. And like, she's just spiraling right now because he's treating her like this. And she's trying to be like, be respectful with this separation. But it's like, we gotta stop giving this man so much grace, bro. Like, I was so tired of playing the part because I'm also just growing. Like, I'm not trying to keep anything from anybody anymore. I want it all out on the table. I'm like, this is not it. So she actually. On my birthday, she finally was like. She's like talking to me about some lies that she was. She was just going in and she finally says to me, she's like. Because we. We're close. Like, she's like my best friend, but my stepmom. And she's done so much for me, dude, I would not be where I'm at today if it wasn't for her.

A (135:08)

That's amazing.

B (135:09)

So, like. And we can talk to each other about anything. And she's like, coming. You know, she's had her own stuff with her parents to make her fall for this type of man and be stuck with it and be manipulated by him.

A (135:19)

It's crazy. Just like the cycles that you don't even realize.

B (135:22)

And that's why I wanted to do this even more, because everything affects everyone,

A (135:26)

but people don't realize that. That's why for so long I contemplated, do I even want kids? Because. And I know I've said this on the show, but. Because you could do something and not even know how it's going to affect your child. And then if you want to go outside of that, you don't know what's happening. As soon as they leave your house.

B (135:41)

At school. Yeah.

A (135:42)

With friends, like, their friends, parents. It's a sick world. And it's terrifying.

B (135:47)

It is. It's. Yeah.

A (135:48)

And like, some people turn out great, like you. And unfortunately, some people, they. They don't have. They never find the tools within themselves to go down a better path.

B (135:59)

Yep.

A (135:59)

And it's like. It's like, at. How much is that their fault? They don't know. You know what I mean? It sucks.

B (136:03)

It does suck.

A (136:04)

And it's like setting people up for failure.

B (136:06)

It is. And that's why I'm grateful for everything I went through, because I do feel like it guided me to be more stern and where I want to be today. But it. Look how much it affected me.

A (136:17)

Right.

B (136:17)

The relationship I was in for three years. Look at what I was choosing. So, yeah. So even with her. So it took me, like, I put myself in her shoes. I get it. At first I didn't want to because I was like, what? But so she goes to me, she goes, no Wonder he spent 10 years in prison first. Whatever. He only got sentenced to three. And then in that moment, I was like, what did he tell you? He got sentenced to three years in prison. I was like, okay. I was like, we gotta talk. We gotta sit there and have a conversation about this. And she was like, what do you mean? I was like, there's not a doubt in my mind that he didn't do what he was accused of. And she was like, so he did it. I was like, we'll talk tomorrow. And we have a whole conversation. And that day before I call my mom, my sister, and I'm like, I need you guys to tell me everything. And dude, my sister told me everything. It was crazy. And I read interviews between them, I read the charges. You don't. An eight year old knowing what his private parts look like, knowing what sperm tastes like. He did everything to her but like actual sex, a rape at that point, literally, like for years she tried even telling my mom, like, and you know, my, as a mom, anything but that, right? Like single, three kids. So it was, it was a whole thing with them. And it was like puzzle pieces.

A (137:37)

Did he do anything to your brother?

B (137:39)

I think he did stuff in front of him and tried a few times getting him, but your sister got the brunt of it. My sister got the brunt of it. And like, she opened up to me about all of it.

A (137:50)

God, that's horrible.

B (137:51)

I mean, I'm. I didn't have a doubt in my mind I knew something, but I was just like hearing all of it and then me having to tell his now ex wife and just come out and be like, he's been lying about all of this stuff. So with this divorce happening and I moved here obviously to get closer with them and get support, it's obviously kind of put a wrench in things. So I like, for myself, I was like, I don't want to be involved anymore with any of this toxic ass shit. And his wife is doing amazing and like doing what she's got to do. But I came to a point where it was like, okay, I came here to get support. That's not really happening now because they're about to get separated. Like, what can I do? And I also was talking with my boyfriend about it, like, just struggling because I was really just kind of soaking in it. Like this man did this. Yeah, that.

A (138:45)

And then your brother. Yeah.

B (138:46)

So I am now in the process. So I like, was like, I need to figure out what I want to do with my life because I want to get away. I'm tired of family. I love my family, but I am tired.

A (139:00)

And sometimes you might find yourself just needing those times of space to just, you know, collect yourself.

B (139:06)

My sister and my mom have been so locked in with each other and same with my brother. And I think it was good that I did separate from them and I was Super. A lone wolf there for a while. And I'm not really afraid of change. I mean, I up the mood, and I can do that, and. But in a positive way. Like, character development is super important, but also, like, you have to strive better. You can't just, you know, do things right.

A (139:30)

Like, to escape.

B (139:31)

Yeah. So now I was like, okay, what do I need to do? And my boyfriend is in the Coast Guard, and we were just talking back and forth because I'm super active now. I'm super. I go to the gym all the time. I like, completely change my whole. I don't smoke at all anymore. I don't drink like that. I mean, I can't tell you when I've touched any other drug. I completely changed my mindset. So I was like, all right, what am I gonna do? Signed up for the Coast Guard, and I'm going to boot camp in November.

A (140:02)

Wow.

B (140:02)

And I am super excited. And I'm also excited to just be away for the holidays from all of it as well, too.

A (140:09)

And just, like, no pressure.

B (140:10)

Yeah.

A (140:11)

Yeah.

B (140:11)

And I, like, It just all happened so quick, and I'm just. And then, like, this. Doing this. I was like, this is perfect. Like, how this is all timing out, and I'm feeling like I'm supposed to be where I need to be and going where I should be going. And, like, I got to learn all these lessons along the way. And as hard as it is, like, dealing with, I mean, my aunt, my uncle with my mom, with meeting my dad's wife and having that relationship. I mean, having a father who literally. He doesn't. Dude, I haven't spoken to that man in months because he just feels like I took her side because he has no idea that I'm even doing this and that I told everybody who he really is. He has no idea. So I, like, I don't care. Like.

A (140:55)

But you have no relationship with him. He doesn't try.

B (140:57)

No. He never. Yeah, he doesn't care. And, like, doesn't that prove of who he is? Exactly. More. And.

A (141:04)

And you would think, too, if he was trying to prove that he wasn't that kind of person, that he'd be, like, trying extra hard for you.

B (141:11)

Yeah. And nothing. He does not. You can tell. He doesn't care. He does not care at all. And.

A (141:16)

And how are you. But you. Your mom and your sister are. You guys have a pretty good relationship. Relationship right now.

B (141:21)

So once I called them and was like, hey, everything's coming to the surface. I can tell you guys everything. I need you to Tell me everything. Yeah, we have been like, healing and just like being able to talk about all this stuff and being able to like, open up with each other, that's really. I mean, me and my s. I didn't know any of that, like, any of the details. I knew it was bad.

A (141:41)

I didn't know like, the extent of it.

B (141:44)

And like, it was literally puzzle pieces Come, like, oh, so that's what happened that day. Like, that's why he was acting. That's why he went to the room. That's why I was hearing those noises. That's why Donovan and me were getting treated like this. And you were. It was crazy. Like, the shit she had to go through and see. And like, he would try and do it in front of me and I was so young and he was doing it for years to her, years of him. Just like, this is a grown. Like, he was 27 when he got arrested. What, to an 8 year old, like, and it was hard, like, coming around to his wife's, my stepmom's side of the family, and like, even my boyfriend. And like, them having to kind of understand, well, why wouldn't you tell anybody? Like, why wouldn't. I tried a few times. But when you don't. When you're not ready to hear something like that. And I'm not here to blow up anybody's world. Like, they had a house and you

A (142:38)

went through your own stuff too, right?

B (142:39)

Like, I'm just trying to. Don't get me wrong, I get it. It's dark, it's hard. And I wish I could just sit here and open up all of this to her in the beginning of me first meeting her. But there were a few times where I'll never forget, I tried telling her. She shut it down. She was like, no, that's my husband. And she even tells me today. She's like, I remember that. I was not about to hear it. I had to hear it when I was ready. And I even tried telling her parents at one point, and they were all so close with him. I remember her dad saying, I don't even care what he did. He's a different man now. That shut me down. Like, why? Okay. Wow. And it's just me. Like, it's not like I have my sister there to be like, hey, these are the details. Listen. Because when you hear it from my sister's mouth, it's crazy. Like, absolutely crazy.

A (143:29)

And she's doing okay now, dude.

B (143:31)

She's just. Like I said, she. With how young, she had kids, she has an Amazing career. She's killing it. Me and her are super tight. We talk. I think we just needed to grow up, like, at that age and what we were going through, there was no way we were going to be close that young. And now that we're both adults and I'm doing my thing, I think we're both able to just be there for each other. And her also, she held herself accountable for not being there for me for a lot of things. And I also had to hold myself accountable because I blamed her for a lot of things, and I didn't want to get close. And end of the day, like, my. My boyfriend has helped me a lot with, like, empathy, and he always says, like, softening. He has, and. And he's been through it too. He's in the Coast Guard, like, doing the most, and that's a whole. He's done his thing with that. So he's super structured, like, and he's always telling me, you know, we're all just human, experiencing life for the first time, all of us, so just, like, you know, give yourself and everybody else around you, like, some peace, you know. And that's really helped me a lot, to be honest. Just understanding. I mean, even with my aunt, my uncle, I was so angry. Angry with them for years, and, like, didn't want, like, you guys are just going to see me as how I was in high school and yada, yada, and now we're cool. Like, we have a good relationship. They're so proud of me. Like, nobody would have even thought I would think about the military or even doing anything like that. And I passed everything, like, amazing. Literally, all I have to do now is just get started.

A (145:05)

So November, you go November 18th, and I'll be back. And then how long are you there?

B (145:08)

Eight weeks.

A (145:09)

Okay.

B (145:10)

Yep. Yeah.

A (145:10)

Wow. So it's like, it's like you're able to just open these new doors and experiences for yourself, and it's only gonna teach you more about who you are, and it's only gonna help you build, you know, your different, like you said, your character development.

B (145:24)

Yeah. And I think also, you know, I just hurt people. Hurt people. And I was so traumatized, and I just, like.

A (145:32)

You were angry.

B (145:33)

I was so angry. And I hurt a lot of people along the way. People hurt me along the way. I mean, I just, you know, that's why I think it's important, too, to talk about. And, like, that's why I wanted to do this as well, because, like, you can get where you need to go and where you need to be and thrive. But, like, hold yourself accountable to what you did to get there. You know, like, even with my ex relationship, even with my past friendships, me and Gabby, I mean, she still sees me as that little delinquent girl. We're not very close anymore. Just because I'm super structured now. I don't do the whole. It was hard because I was really excited to tell them about the Coast Guard and I got a response just talking about my ex. And I don't really. This is the first time I've talked about him in like two years. So it's hard because I think sometimes her mindset is still there and I'm just completely.

A (146:29)

And that might change too, down the road. You know, it's like everybody's path is so different, and I'm sure they're surprised how quick you kind of turned everything around and. Cause it is quick, you know, and it's amazing because, like I said, really, not everybody can do that. But I also feel like by you speaking publicly about your story, your experience, your trauma, it allows you to almost close a door.

B (146:52)

Yes.

A (146:52)

And go on to the next chapter. And that's not to say that you won't continue to heal from it and have things that might come up or whatever, but, like, I think that it takes a different type of, you know, self empowerment to be able to speak out publicly about anything like that that you've been through.

B (147:08)

Yeah. And that's exactly what I wanted to do. I just. And I. I think I. With a lot of people who knew me in Russellville, with a lot in high school and with even my family, even my aunt, my uncle, I mean, anyone that I came across, I think just didn't really fully understand what was going on. And I just wanted to put my story out there because I, like, I was just a little girl going through all this stuff like I was a teenager being a delinquent. As much as I hurt people, I, like, there's no excuse, but there's also understanding. And we're all human. Right.

A (147:42)

Yeah. It goes to show, like, you really never know what's somebody's going through or has been through.

B (147:46)

Yeah.

A (147:46)

And like you said, or I think it was you said, your boyfriend said it just give people some grace. It's like, you know, we're only responsible for ourselves.

B (147:54)

Yeah.

A (147:55)

If we need distance from people, if people aren't for us, back away.

B (147:58)

Right.

A (147:58)

But we just. You really never know.

B (148:00)

Yeah. And some paths are different from others. And that's something I'm, you know, not everybody's going to want to hop on this train and sober up and go and do this and.

A (148:10)

But when, if and when they decide to, then they'll know.

B (148:14)

I can't. Just knowing how much I can sink back into it. I have to keep it.

A (148:20)

Yeah, you have to do it for yourself. And I think too, it's interesting how different it just like I was saying too, like how things change. Like she, Gabby, was there for you when you needed it. And maybe right now your paths aren't aligning, but there might be a day that she, you know, that a thousand percent rules reverse or, you know, you guys are at the same place, you're able to reconnect and you never. Life does weird things, you know. But I, like I said, really, I think it's something to be very proud of. To be your age and still so young, but able to really grasp everything in the way that you have.

B (148:51)

I'm trying.

A (148:53)

You should be proud of yourself. And it's no small thing to be able to talk about it publicly and to somebody you don't know.

B (148:59)

Yeah. You know, I just think it's important though too. It is all the generational differences. Like I mean even, I mean my dad's ex wife, my stepmom, she's 30 something and she's like, has opened up her mind so much to all of this and thank God, you know, and you don't. Because look at what she's seen. Look at what I've seen. My aunt, my uncle. If you just, I mean, open up your heart, open up your mind, see what people have gone through, see the effect of things. Just saying I'm sorry, like I know me, like I know me saying I'm sorry. Sorry has helped me just hold myself accountable and people. My mom saying she's sorry, my sister saying she's sorry. Like, I just think it's important and I think it also shapes us to who we are. And that was a big part of why I wanted to come do this. Because all of this has shaped me to be where I'm at and like motivates me. And when I'm in the gym and I'm thinking of little Maddie and thinking of all the people I fucked up or got fucked over by, it's all just like. Just helps me to maintain a better life because I feel like I'm doing myself a service and everyone else. Spring just slid into your DMs, grab that boho, look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up.

A (150:13)

Spring's calling, Ross. Work your magic.