My Grandparents Were Murdered

Summary

Podcast Summary: "My Grandparents Were Murdered"

Podcast Information:

• Title: We're All Insane
• Host/Author: Devorah Roloff
• Episode: My Grandparents Were Murdered
• Release Date: June 9, 2025

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Introduction

In this deeply personal episode of We're All Insane, Devorah Roloff hosts an unnamed guest who shares the harrowing story of how their beloved grandparents were tragically murdered. The guest delves into the intricate details of their family's dynamics, the mysterious circumstances surrounding their grandparents' deaths, and the lingering quest for justice and closure.

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Background

The guest begins by providing context about their grandparents, revealing that they were paternal grandparents who had moved back to Portugal for retirement when the guest was 16 years old. The grandparents were the closest among seven grandchildren, fostering a strong bond through regular Sunday church visits and personal connections.

[02:03] Unnamed Speaker: "I remember going every Sunday to church with them. They were my people."

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The Disappearance

Fast forward to January 2024, the last contact with the grandparents occurred around the time of multiple family birthdays. Attempts to reach them via FaceTime and phone calls went unanswered, raising immediate concerns.

[05:27] Unnamed Speaker: "I was waking up to my mom hyperventilating, telling me that my grandparents were found dead."

The guest recounts the desperate moment when they were informed of the tragic news, highlighting the suddenness and lack of any prior signs of distress from the grandparents, both of whom were in their seventies and eighties but appeared healthy and full of life.

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Discovery and Initial Investigation

Upon arriving in Portugal, the guest describes the unsettling atmosphere of their grandparents' home. The environment was eerily cold, with open windows and signs that suggested something was terribly wrong. Notably, the house was not secured as usual, and personal items like glasses and toiletries were left untouched.

[20:34] Unnamed Speaker: "Both doors kind of look at each other... it doesn't make sense because they were healthy."

The initial reports on local news speculated various causes of death, including suicide and gas leaks, which were quickly dismissed by the guest and their family due to inconsistencies with the grandparents' lifestyles and health.

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Suspicious Activity and Red Flags

As the investigation unfolded, several red flags emerged:

1. Mark's Involvement: A family cousin named Mark had access to the grandparents' house and behaved suspiciously by refusing to provide keys to the family.

   [35:36] Unnamed Speaker: "Mark is the only person that has keys to every door of that house. That day when the keys were found, we were just like, what?"

2. Missing Items: Important items such as their grandmother's favorite purple backpack containing $50,000 were missing, raising suspicions of theft.

   [65:19] Unnamed Speaker: "The backpack of $50,000 is gone. So I know that purple backpack..."

3. Inadequate Autopsy Procedures: The autopsy conducted in Portugal lacked thoroughness, particularly in toxicology reports, leaving many questions unanswered.

   [68:04] Unnamed Speaker: "They didn't do a toxicology report. It was just like fake... you just wrote whatever."

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Confrontation and Continued Doubts

The guest and their father confronted Mark about the missing keys and later about the suspicious activities surrounding the case. Mark's defensive and evasive behavior only deepened the family's suspicions.

[36:13] Unnamed Speaker: "Why don't you just beat his ass? Because at this point, it's like you're making it hard."

Despite attempts to seek more information, the local authorities remained dismissive, attributing the deaths to carbon monoxide poisoning without substantial evidence, which the guest vehemently disputes.

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Supernatural Elements and Further Investigation

In an effort to find closure, the guest and their family consulted a medium who purportedly communicated with their grandparents' spirits. According to the guest, the medium insinuated that Mark was responsible for the murders, claiming that he had stolen from the grandparents.

[72:52] Unnamed Speaker: "He came over and he gave us a drink and we felt bad, so that's what had happened."

Further investigations revealed disturbing connections between Mark and the head of the local police station, suggesting possible corruption and a cover-up to protect Mark.

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Emotional Impact and Ongoing Struggles

The tragic loss and unresolved mystery have left the guest grappling with intense grief and a lack of closure. They discuss the challenges of processing such trauma, especially without official answers or justice.

[81:21] Unnamed Speaker: "It took me to grow up even more because I was like, damn. Like, life could really be gone within a second."

The guest emphasizes the profound change this event has wrought on their perception of trust and safety, highlighting the lasting psychological scars left by such an ordeal.

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Conclusion

"My Grandparents Were Murdered" serves as a powerful testament to the enduring impact of unresolved trauma and the quest for truth. The guest's narrative underscores the importance of thorough investigations and the devastating effects of bureaucratic negligence. As they continue to seek answers, the story remains a poignant exploration of loss, suspicion, and the relentless pursuit of justice.

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Notable Quotes:

• [05:28] Unnamed Speaker: "They were healthy. So I'm over here, processing my head, like, what the hell happened?"

• [18:28] Unnamed Speaker: "We only got it back, like, last month, and it's been a year and, like, two months."

• [52:45] Unnamed Speaker: "Dogs have a really good intuition. They know something."

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Closing Thoughts

This episode sheds light on the complexities of grieving intertwined with unresolved questions surrounding a loved one's death. It serves as a reminder of the deep emotional turmoil that comes with losing family members under mysterious circumstances and the critical need for compassionate investigation.

Transcript

[Tatiana]

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[Unnamed Speaker]

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[Tatiana]

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[Unnamed Speaker]

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[Tatiana]

I'm excited already.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Bear with me. A little background on my grandparents. They're my paternal grandparents since I was born. They lived here in the States up until I was 16. They had moved back to Portugal to.

[Tatiana]

Retire and that's where they're from.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So that's where my whole family's from. But my grandpa was like, I need to go back, can't be here anymore, whatever. So they went, they sold their apartment. But them being here, they, my grandparents were. I'm at. I'm one out of seven grandkids. So I feel like my siblings and my cousins might be like, you're lying. But I was probably one of the closest grandkids to them. I mean I remember going every Sunday to church with them. I would go to my grandparents house when I was in trouble to hide from my parents and be like, hey grandma, can you help me? You know, I would do their nails like it was. There's a lot of bonding with them. So they were my people.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And when they went to Portugal I was like, damn, like they're not going.

[Tatiana]

To be here anymore. Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know.

[Tatiana]

And how old were you when they went back?

[Unnamed Speaker]

So I was 16 when they went back. So I was okay. Freshly in high school basically. I think I was a freshman or a sophomore.

[Tatiana]

And were you playing? Had you ever been over there?

[Unnamed Speaker]

I Have.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But I wasn't. We weren't going every summer. Like, there's families that go every summer. It's just expensive. We're a family of five. Like, each ticket is, like fourteen hundred dollars. So, you know, we would go every so often. So from 2016, we didn't see them up until, I think it was 2018 when we saw them again. They had came here, and then that summer, we went and surprised them.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Most beautiful moment of my life. Because, I mean, they're so dramatic. My grandma's a very dramatic crier. Like, she's like, oh, my God, almost passed out.

[Tatiana]

Stop.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I'm like, girl, relax. Like, it's not that serious. Yeah. But they ended up moving back. And, you know, our routine to keep in touch with them is we had gotten them an iPhone the last one of the last times they were here so we could FaceTime every Sunday. And this plays a part into, like, how everything broke down. But Sundays were our day. Like, we would FaceTime them. We would catch up. My dad was very, like, specific, like, I need to see your face every Sunday to make sure. Like, I can, you know, speaking on the phone to somebody across the world, you can't really tell if they're faking it, if they're okay, if they're not. But, you know, FaceTiming, you could be like, okay, like, you look a little sick.

[Tatiana]

You know, you can see their facial. Facial expressions.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Right?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So they ended up going. And then fast forward to January of 2024. It was my. The last time we had spoke to them. I want to. Last time I had spoke to them was January. I want to say the 16th, 17th, around my dad's birthday, because it's my dad's birthday, then my grandpa's birthday, then my grandma's birthday and my aunt's birthday.

[Tatiana]

All in a row.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So everyone's on the same week. We had called them, said happy Birthday. And then weekends went by where my dad would call them up until February on Sundays, but I wouldn't be home. I'd be at work. So it was the week of Valentine's Day. So that Sunday before was what, like, February 11th. My dad had tried to call them, and nobody answers. And my dad's like, okay, that's weird, because usually, like, they'll call back. We never got a call back. My dad's like, okay, maybe it's because that weekend is like, Marty grand in Portugal. Like, it's carnival weekend. Like, everyone's out, everyone's at the churches, like, doing things. So my dad Was like, okay. Like, I'll just call them next Sunday. Like, no big deal. Wednesday comes around. I think that was if I'm getting my days right. It was Valentine's Day, okay? And my dad's cousin Isaac, he had called them. He lives over there. He's an EMT over there. He had called them. Just checking up because he lived around the corner. So he would, you know, just see if they needed anything. Nobody answers. Okay. This is a cousin that we're very distant with. We weren't close at the time. Friday comes along. I'll never forget. I wasn't sleeping at home. I was out sleeping somewhere. And my mom calls me at 8am like, repeatedly. And I'm like, okay. Like, you know, she knows I'm not home. Like, why are you calling me at 8am that's so weird, knowing that I closed the bar the past week, the past day, you know? And I woke up and I'm like, hello? My mom's hyperventilating. Like, couldn't even get a word out. And I'm like, hello? Like, hello? And she's like. And I'm like, yes. Like, what's going on? Like, I instantly, like, heart dropped to my stomach. I was like, something's wrong.

[Tatiana]

Yeah, like, you know.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know. And she's just like, you need to go find your dad. And I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm thinking, my dad's a truck driver. So I'm like, holy shit. Like, dad probably got into a car accident. Like, he probably flipped the truck. Like, you know, just so many things are running through your head in that moment. And I'm like, mom? Like, why? Like, what's going on? Like, you need to tell me. And she just, like, is panicking. Like, you couldn't even get a word out of her.

[Tatiana]

Now, is it her parents or your dad's parents?

[Unnamed Speaker]

My dad's parents.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So I'm over here, like, okay. She's like. And she just kept repeating, you need to go find your dad. You need to go find your dad. I'm like, okay, Mom. I'm the only one that has the location. So I'm like, okay, like, I'm gonna go see where I can find him. And I'm like, but what's going on? I'll never forget. I was getting out of the bed, and I'm walking to go see my friend that I was with at the time. And I'm leaving the room, and my mom's like, your grandparents were found dead. And I was like, what? And I'll never forget. It's like weakness just went through my body. And I fell. And I'm like, what are you talking about? She was like, both your grandparents were found dead in their home this morning. And I was like, what? Like, what are you talking about? And I just lost words. Like, I broke down for maybe not even a minute. Like, everything came out. And then I just heard my mom again say, you need to go find your dad. And I instantly was like, okay, I'm going. And it's like I snapped back. Like, I was just like, okay. Like, I was on go time. Like, let me go find him. Like, you know, he's by himself in a dump truck in the middle of nowhere, you know, dropping off dirt or whatever he was dropping off. But, you know, he's by himself. And I'll never forget the drive there. I'm like driving down the highway and I'm just like. Like, there's no way. Like, someone has to be joking with me at this point, you know, like, this can't be true.

[Tatiana]

It also just, like, doesn't make sense.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It doesn't make sense because they were healthy. My grandmother was 74. My grandpa was 81. But, like, they were full of life. Like, I'm not even kidding. My grandma, you talk to her at like a restaurant, she sees, like, a fine man. She's gonna be like, yeah, that's my man. Like, in front of my grandpa, like, she was just all like, singing, like, didn't care. And my grandpa, like, he was a very tiny man, five foot, very petite, like, cutie. He just would laugh. Like he was just there, you know? So they had full of life, no illnesses. I mean, they were healthy. So I'm over here, like, processing my head, like, what the hell happened? You know, like, because we're not there. Eight hour flight away, you know, like, what could have possibly happened for this to occur? You know? And I remember getting to my dad, and my dad is like in his truck and he gets out and I'm just. He just. I can't even explain his face. Like, it was just broken.

[Tatiana]

And somebody had already told him.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. So I asked. So then, you know, I didn't know who had called, so I had asked my dad. I'm like, what happened? And he's like, isaac called me. And mind you, my dad has probably spoken to this cousin maybe like two or three times in his life. He's a younger cousin.

[Tatiana]

Okay?

[Unnamed Speaker]

And I'm just like, what do you mean? I'm like, you know, at the time, I didn't even know who Isaac was. So I was like, who's Isaac? And my dad's like my cousin. Like you don't know him but he's this, and this is like little brother. And I'm like okay, so what happened? My dad was like, he called me and I thought it was weird that he was calling me so early because the time difference, 8am here is like 1pm over there. Time difference, I'm not even doing math correctly but like five hours, six hour difference. My dad was like, I thought it was strange that he was calling me so many times so I answered and he told me that he was outside of the house and they walked in and grandpa and grandma were dead. And I was just like what? And my dad's like, I thought he was calling me to tell me they were like in an accident because you know he's an emt, not that they were found dead in their home, you know. So my dad couldn't talk the whole ride home. Like he just was breaking down. It was a very silent 45 minute drive home. We get home, my sisters are home, my uncle's there, my dad and his brother, the only two kids, 11 year age difference. So my dad's the older brother, so he took it very hard. We get there and you know, we're just all trying to figure out like what the happened, you know, Cuz nobody has any explanation for us. So eventually Isaac ends up calling my dad after we're a little bit more like calmed down and he's like, I'm going to explain to you like what had happened of what we know. So it's my grandmother's house and then there's a lady that lives in front, her name's Amelia. She's my grandma's best friend. I mean they've known each other way before my dad and my uncle were born. So on Fridays she would go and help my grandma clean the house because she's a little younger so she has more like strength. So she would go on Fridays to help. She had went that Friday morning. She was knocking on the doors and nobody was answering. And she was like, what the hell? Like it's nine o' clock in the morning, why isn't anybody answering? My grandparents were early birds.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So she ends up hopping like the fence, it's like a gated house or whatever. So she ends up popping the fence, she's banging on all the doors, nobody's answering. She finally comes around to one of the windows and she, she peeks in. It's the Closet. My grandma's closet. And she sees my grandma's legs, and she's like, oh, my God. She collapsed. Like, instant thought, like, oh, my God, she fell down, you know, because you can't see a face. So she had called, you know, the EMTs, and she was like, you guys need to hurry up. I think she collapsed.

[Tatiana]

So that's how Isaac comes into it.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yes.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So then, you know, she's continuously banging. She's like, but wait, like, where is Antonio, which was my grandpa's name? She's like, that's so strange. Like, he would have been the one answering the door. Why isn't anybody answering? And then she had called back, and she was like, no, I think you guys need to hurry up, because in Portugal, they take, like, 20 minutes to get to you. They're not very urgent. So she was like, you guys have to hurry up, because I think something is actually really wrong because the husband isn't answering the door either, you know? So eventually they come. God knows how long it took them. They end up breaking one of the doors down. And from what Isaac told us, he wasn't allowed in the house physically, because once they put two and two together, they're like, no, this is your aunt's house. Like, you can't go in, but you can stay outside. He said, they weren't even in there for more than, like, a minute. They walked in, they came out, and they're like, there's nothing we can do.

[Tatiana]

So how long had you not spoken to them again? In between?

[Unnamed Speaker]

I didn't speak to them for a few weeks.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

My dad didn't speak to them for one weekend, which was the weekend prior.

[Tatiana]

And he had tried to call. Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Try to call them that Sunday. Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Okay. Were they okay then?

[Unnamed Speaker]

So nobody answers. So from the backstory, you know, we asked the neighbors when we got there, like, hey, you know, when's the last time they were seen? And Amelia was like, well, I saw them Sunday. There was the party up, up the street. It's a very close range as to where everything is. She was like, they were up there. They went and had lunch. My grandma has three dogs. They are her kids. Okay. They're so spoiled. Sundays, she would buy them, like, a whole grilled chicken and feed it to them. She was like, she bought the chicken. She was walking home. And as I saw her before she went in the house, she stopped by Emily and was like, hey, like, you know, me and Antonio are gonna go to the bank in the city. Red flag. Because that was very random. But I need to ask you a favor. And Amelia's like, okay, like, what is it? And she's like, if anything happens to me, promise me you'll take care of my dogs. And Amelia's like, what are you talking about? Like, you know, thinking, okay, my grandma's supposed to have hip surgery the week after. She's like, maria, what are you talking about? You're just having hip surgery. Like, you're gonna be fine. Like, you're being dramatic. And, you know, that's what Amelia thought. Like, okay, maybe she's just overthinking her surgery, know? And my grandma was very adamant. She was like, no, promise me you'll take care of my dogs. And Amelia's like, okay, but like, is anything wrong? And my grandmother was so good at hiding, like, the truth. Like, she could really put in, like a straight face and you would never tell, like, if she was lying or not. And she was like, no, everything's fine. Like, just promise me you'll keep that promise. Like, cuz, you know, my dogs are like my world, you know? And Amelia's like, okay, like, I'll do it. Like, you know, like, whatever. I'm not gonna fight you on it. And my grandma's like, okay, like, see you later. And they proceeded to go home. That had to be around maybe 3, 3, 4 o' clock in the afternoon for my grandfather to drive after 4pm Very rare because, you know, he's at an old age. He hated driving at night, even when he lived here. Yeah, you know, it was very not like them. So Amelia was like, I didn't think anything of it. I just thought, you know, they were gonna go to the bank and they were gonna come back home from Sunday. They were never seen until they were found on Friday. Which is like. It's something that pissed me off too, because it's like all the neighbors around there, they're so nosy. They're in everybody's business, okay? They walk past everybody's house to see who has guests over, who's doing what. And it's like one thing that the dogs do did. It's like an open patio, right? They tore up all the couches, newspapers. Anything they found, they tore it up. And it's like they were signaling somebody to come. Nobody noticed that the blinds were never open. The blinds are like a wooden panel. It's very old school. Nobody opened the windows in a week, almost a week. You know, no one noticed the red flags. And it's just like, everybody's usually nosy until it was actually Necessary to be nosy. So they weren't found up until Friday. So even till this day, we don't know the time frame of how long they were dead for. We just know they were last seen on Sunday. And then they were found basically five days later. You know, so backing up to when the paramedics went in. They came out and they were just like, notes. They're long gone. And Isaac's like, okay. And that's all Isaac knows. And that's all he had told my dad. He was like, that's all I know. They won't tell me anything. You know, like the FBI agent, their form of FBI agents are there, and, you know, the police are there. Like, you know, they're going to investigate. So my dad's like, okay, I guess we'll just see you tomorrow. Because me and my dad were first flight next day. And so we're watching the Portuguese news because of course, something like that, so bad happening. Everyone's going to be nosy.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

News reporters came. I'll never forget the first time we saw it on the news. It was a picture of them. And they had said the first storyline was that they had committed suicide. And I was like, excuse me. My grandparents were very religious. Like, I'm talking about. My grandma worked in the churches all my life. My grandfather's Bible was like this big. Like, I'm talking about. Very religious. Okay. They would never do such a thing. And I was like, no, no. So my mom's best friend had reached out to the reporter and was like, you need to take that story down because why are you making something up like that? Like, that is very malicious. Like, why would you do that? She was like, oh, it's just something that we heard from the neighbors. What?

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, you know, that makes no sense. She ended up taking it down. Then a few hours later, they post a picture again. They're like, oh, yeah, it was a gas leak. And I'm like, what's the point of just exactly making up stories?

[Tatiana]

Yeah, I guess because they figure people want answers and it's just easier. But still.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But it's just like you're kind of just making everyone spiral at this point. Right.

[Tatiana]

You know, and especially it's not fair to the family.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Not at all. Even to the point where no one, not even the cops had contacted us. No one had contacted us while they're doing all this. If it wasn't for Isaac being our family, we would have never known until God knows how long.

[Tatiana]

You know, probably until you saw the news.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. And it's crazy, because then the second story of the gas leak, they had said that Amelia said that she smelled gas. She was like, tatiana, I never smelled gas. When I went over to the house, she was like, so I don't know where they got that from. So it's like, not only are you lying about a story, but you're lying on people's names. You know what I mean? Like, that's just not right. Then my mom's best friend talks to the lady again, and she's like, what are you doing? Like, really? What are you doing? She's like, oh, that's just. You know, what the firefighters told us. And it's just like, okay, that's the third story. Like, whatever third story comes out. It was carbon monoxide poisoning. And this is the story that they stuck with. And I'm just like, okay. Like, at this point, like, I'm ready to go there. Like, I need to see it with my own eyes. Because at this point, it's too many. Too many words in the pot. Like, what are we doing? You know, we end up getting there the next day. You would think, okay, two people are found dead in their home. You would think the house is going to be taped off. Like, no one's. No. After they removed their bodies, the house was open to the public. Whoever wanted to walk in there was allowed to walk in there. And it's kind of just like, you know, seeing how crime scenes are dealt with here and over there, it's two different worlds. Like, they don't give a. Over there.

[Tatiana]

Yeah. You know, were you guys allowed to request an autopsy?

[Unnamed Speaker]

So we did.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

We only got it back, like, last month, and it's been a year and, like, two months.

[Tatiana]

So there's just, like, no sense of urgency.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No.

[Tatiana]

Over there.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Not at all. Zero. Especially when you're an older person.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You're just swept under the rug. Like, they don't care at all. They're just like, oh, you're old. Like, you know, no one really cares about you, but they kind of mess with the wrong family. Because I was in, like, fight or flight mode.

[Tatiana]

1.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, once I landed, getting to the house, I was like, why the Is the door open? Like, where is everybody? You know, And Amelia is there guarding the house, but, you know, she's a little old lady. Like.

[Tatiana]

And the doors weren't even locked, so.

[Unnamed Speaker]

The door that they had broke. Like, it was a glass door. So that's really hard to replace. So, you know, we had to wait, because once you. When you're In Portugal. I know a lot of foreign countries do this. When you die, your oldest child immediately becomes head of household of everything you own. So you can only do anything with the head of household.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So we had to wait till my dad got there to get permission to do X, Y, and Z. When we got there, we walked in the house. My dad was like, tatiana, I can't do it. Like, he walked in for, like, two seconds, and he walked right out. And he was like, I can't be in here. And I was like, okay, then I'll do it. You know, my dad is. He has a very sensitive spot with me. Like, he's very close to my heart. Not my favorite parent, but I definitely feel more for him. You know, my mom's tough. Like, she's just like, whatever. You know, my dad's very sensitive. So I was like, okay, dad. Like, you know, I'll bite the bullet. I'll go through the house. Like, you just stay outside. Walking in the house. It was. It was weird because it was just. It's. It happened right at the entrance. So you walk in the front door, and here's a restroom, and then here's the closet. So both doors, like, kind of look at each other. My grandfather was found dead on the toilet with a mask on his face. He had obviously, you know, used the bathroom, and he had thrown up in a bucket next to him. So obviously something was going on to the point where he. Things were coming out of both ends, you know, which is like, how rare is that?

[Tatiana]

Bizarre.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, that doesn't happen.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So I'm like, okay, weird. Where my grandmother was literally, they kind of died looking at each other because she had collapsed, and she was, like, in an L shape, and her head was, like, at the point of the door. She had foam coming out of her mouth. When they, like, dried up foam, there was a lot of, like, liquids. So she had to, like, collapse and just die instantly. My grandfather, I'm assuming he was sick. So then, you know, I'm thinking of this. I'm seeing the mark on the floor. I'm seeing how the bathroom is. You know what I mean? The smell, like, it's just. It's so many things going on. And, like, homes there don't have, like, centralized units.

[Tatiana]

And that's, like, actually traumatizing to a certain.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No, it was.

[Tatiana]

Because it's.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It. Yeah, it was traumatizing and all of.

[Tatiana]

That stuff at once. It's just knowing it's from your family.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, it was. It was a big shock. I feel like I went into. I felt like I closed out my emotions in that time. The new McCrispy strip is here. Dip approved by Ketchup Tangy barbecue, Honey mustard, honey mustard, Sprite, McFlurry, Big Mac sauce, Double dipped in buffalo and ranch. More ranch and creamy chili. McCrispy strip dip now at McDonald's. I think you're on mute. Workday starting to sound the same. I think you're on mute. Finds. Find something that sounds better for your career on LinkedIn. With LinkedIn job collections, you can browse curated collections by relevant industries and benefits like Flexpto or hybrid workplaces so you can find the right job for you. Get [e-mail] jobs finding where you fit. LinkedIn knows how. Because I felt like I've never been the type to cry in front of my family, speak about my feelings. I'm very, like, closed off.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But I feel like, because it was my dad's like, you know, it affected him. I was like, no, I have to, like, be the big person and, like, you know, do this for him. Like, I have to take care of things for him, you know, and just let him really feel the feels. I can deal with my feelings later.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, but seeing it, it was just. The house is cold. There's no heater because everything's like fireplace or just no AC at all. You just have the windows open, you know, And I'm over here, like, okay. Like, I'm walking around the house. I'm like, okay, what? Like, standing out. To me, there was a cup of wine that wasn't finished. Between their two little, like, lazy boy chairs where they would watch tv. It was like three quarters finished. One thing about my grandparents, they always shared one cup. Like anywhere they went. They're like, no, we'll just drink out of one cup and share it, you know? And I'm like, oh, that's so cute. So I saw the wine glass and I'm like, okay. They probably had wine. You know, I went into their rooms. They slept in separate beds because, you know, they snored and they didn't want to bother anybody. Sleep. Both beds are unmade. One thing about my grandparents, clean freaks. I'm talking about ocd. Like, would never leave the house or even get out of their room first before making their bed. And I'm just like, okay, this is weird. Like, this gives me. They got up in a hurry, you know, and on top of that, my grandmother cannot see without her glasses. And her glasses were on her pillow still. And I'm just Like, okay. Like, I'm trying to, like, put pieces together, like, what the happened that night. Because it had to be at night. They died in their pajamas, right? I'm just like, okay, that's odd, because they never stayed in them. Like, once they got up, they changed, and it was to continue the day they died in their pajamas. I was like, okay, it had to happen either Sunday night or Monday night. But I'm leaning more towards Sunday because no one saw any movement on Monday, which is weird. So I'm like, okay, they probably went to bed Sunday. They probably had a glass of wine. Now what's next? Like, what else could have possibly happened? You know, I'm going through the house, and one thing that stood up stood out to me. My grandmother has the three or four. I think it's four deep freezers. Okay. Mind you, my dad was just there. Previously, in September, those freezers were filled with food. When I went and looked at them, they were empty. The only thing that was in one of those freezers was my grandfather's birthday cake. And I was like, where the is all the food? Like, they're not starving. Like, you know what I mean? This is just packed, like, five months ago. Five, six, seven, eight, whatever. How many months ago? You know, like, that's so weird. And I immediately run outside to tell my dad. I'm like, dad, there's no food in this house. My dad's like, what are you talking about? Like, my grandma was always known to have her house. I mean, whose grandmother doesn't?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, just stocked up.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Not even water bottles? No. My family loves Coca Cola. No soda, no beers, nothing. Just that one glass of wine that I found. Everything else is empty. And I'm like, okay, this is very weird. Like, very unlike them. Like, what really happened? So I end up going through the rest of the house. You know, I'm just like, okay, like, what else stands up to me in that moment? I feel like I was just too. How do I explain it? I was too blank. Like, I was just like, okay, I've had enough for today. Can't do it. I'll be back tomorrow, you know? So we went home. We ended up staying at a hotel because my dad's like, I can't stay anywhere near this house. Like, I just can't do it. And when you walked in the house, you would feel, like, a very strong energy. Like, I can't. I get too many, like, spiritual energies that I can feel. And it's like, when you walked in that house, it was not Only because it was cold. It's like you could feel something, like, telling you to get out, you know?

[Tatiana]

And when you were there in the past, you never felt that way.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Never felt that. It's like something was trying to talk to me, and I couldn't, like, pick signs up, you know. The next day, you know, I catch up on my sleep because jet lag was really bad. I go there first thing in the morning. My dad, same thing. He's like, tati, I can't be here. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. I'll go through things. I'll go through their clothes, see what I can find. Our main priority was to see what was stolen, what could have been stolen out of the house. My grandparents had so much gold. My grandmother had. She was a jewelry person. Like, loved it. And I'm like, okay. She had her prized possessions. Let me find them, girl. I could not find them. That first day. I was like, there's no way. There's no way. I can't find it. Because she was really good at hiding things. And I was like, okay, maybe tomorrow I'll find them. But that whole day, I'm, like, running through their clothes. I'm talking about going through every single pocket of every jean. Like, anything that I could find, I was going through. Couldn't really find much. And I'm like, damn. Like, this is weird because usually, like, my grandma would have, like, a few bucks here, maybe, like a few hundreds over there, like, just hidden in different spots. Couldn't find anything. So I'm like, okay. Like, were they robbed? You know? But the cops said there was no forced entry. I'm like, okay. During that time, during the first two days, one of my dad's cousins, we're gonna name him Mark, because I can't say his actual name. He very weird guy. Not a fan of him. Never married, don't got no kids, doesn't have friends. Very awkward. When you're around him, you're just like, you know.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Gives you an off feeling. He. The second day was just. Oh, my God. Just too much. Too much was following us around everywhere. And I'm just like, okay. And I'll never forget that day. The first day. No, the second day that I was in the house by myself. My dad's like, daddy, I'm going to be up at the cafe, which is literally, like, you can see it from the house. He's like, I'm going to go drink a beer. Like, you do what you got to do. I'm like, okay. I'm going to leave the door open because the doors there aren't a knob. You just have to open it with a key. I was like, don't take the keys because then you'll lock me inside. And if I lock you from outside, then how am I going to know you're here? Yeah, you know, So I was like, I'll just leave the door cracked. I'm going through my grandmother's room at this point and my back is against the door and I'm like going through her dresser. And I don't know what told me to turn around, but instantly, like, I turned around and there's Mark right behind me. No hello, no, hey, I'm here just staring at me. And I'm like, hello? I'm like, you couldn't announce yourself?

[Tatiana]

Yeah, like how long you've been standing there?

[Unnamed Speaker]

And he's just like, oh, no, Tati, I was just checking. And I was like, checking for what? Yeah, he's like, oh, no. Like, just seeing. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, can you leave? You know, because this is my time. Like, you have no right to be in here at all, you know, he's like, okay, I'm leaving. I was like, okay. We end up going to dinner that night, just me and my dad. And guess who shows up unannounced. Mark does. He's like, oh, like, you know, can I join you guys? And me and my dad are just like, okay. Like, this is a cousin like my dad's familiar with. But we've always had a very eerie feeling about him. My grandmother hated him.

[Tatiana]

Okay. He didn't have any type of like, close relationship.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No. He was my grandfather's nephew. So when my grandfather's sister passed away, because Mark doesn't have any family, my grandfather felt the need to like, take him in as a son. Essentially this grown ass man, God knows why. So we were. I wasn't close. My dad had been with him a few times, but my dad was always just like, he's just whatever, you know. So we end up having dinner together and it's just like, okay. Like, you know, I don't suspect anything. Like, he's just weird. So whatever. The next day, same routine. I'm going through the house again. I'm just like, okay. Every day I'm just gonna keep going to see what pops up. And every drawer that I had looked at the day before, something new appeared the next. The next day. Like, there was this one chain that I was looking for that had a pro. I'm not even wearing it today, but I have it. I was looking for it the first day and the second day, couldn't find it. The third day in the same drawer because I kept repeating my steps, like, following them again. It would show up. Or, like, the same jeans that I had just went in through, like, the neck. The past day, I would find, like, hundred dollars in there or, like, 20 bucks here. And I'm just like, what the. Like, am I crazy? Yeah, you know, like, things were just showing up. And I'm like, there's no way. And, like, my mom's very, like, spiritual, so she's like, who knows? Maybe your grandma's, like, placing things for you to find them, you know? And I don't know, just her telling me that kind of gave me some warmth. Like, I'm like, okay, so I would, like, talk in the house by myself. I'm like, okay, Grandma. Like, can you put things where, like, I can find things? Because this is hard and it's cold here, you know? And the third day of me going through the house with the idea of carbon monoxide, right? I'm like, okay, let me look at the fireplace. Fireplace hadn't been used. So I'm just like, there's no way. Yeah, you know, there's just no way. Where would it have come from? There's not even a stove, a gas stove in the primary house. It's in an outside kitchen. So there's no way of any type of carbon monoxide growing in that house.

[Tatiana]

Did they say that they tested for that or they just.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No, they just assumed.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. They said because of the way they. The condition of their bodies were that it was carbon monoxide.

[Tatiana]

Okay. And how they didn't think it was odd, like, where they died.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Exactly. And I had told them. So the third day after I went through the house and found a few things, my dad was like, okay, we're going to go to the detectives or whatever. And I was like, okay, let's go. We went. At first, they let me in the room until they, like, kicked me out and just kept my dad. But I had asked them, I was like, how are you going to say it's carbon monoxide poisoning? By the way, they died when the. Carbon monoxide poisoning, it's a silent killer. If you were asleep, you would have stayed asleep. You would be in a coma. And then your organs, your body would just slowly shut down. I was like, you would not get out of bed.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Let alone walk that far across the house. They were like, no, it was carbon Monoxide poisoning. And I'm like, but how do you know that?

[Tatiana]

So at this point, they weren't investigating it?

[Unnamed Speaker]

No. They were just like, no, it's carbon monoxide poisoning, and that's it. They try to close the case right then and there. And I'm just like, there's no way. Like, how are you gonna sit here and tell us that it was one thing if you haven't even tested for it? You know? And they were just like, oh, you know, we have better cases to work on. And I was like, excuse me. Like, oh, no. Yeah, we have, like, bigger cases that are more important that need to be worked on. Like, your case is basically closed. Like, okay, that's a smack in the face.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, eventually, they had kicked me out of the room, and they're just like, no, we need to speak to your dad. Like, you know, since he's the son. Like, we'll just speak to him. And I'm like, okay. And at this time, we didn't know they were interrogating anybody, but they had interrogated Amelia, and they had told her that we thought she was a person, person of interest. And we're just like, well, she comes out, I'm sitting outside, you know, waiting for my dad, and here she comes, shivering, like, crying, like, panic attack. And she's like, tatiana, you thought I did something. And I'm over here like, what? Like, what are you talking about? She's like, they just told me that you guys thought that I did something. And I was like, what? I was like, no, never, right? Like, never in a million years would I have thought that she did something. You know what I mean? And she was like, no, that's what they told me. Like, they interrogated me and thought, and they were trying to blame me for something. So I'm over here like, okay, if they're trying to say it's carbon monoxide poisoning, why are you interrogating people? It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, it, like, does not add up at all. So I had stormed back in there, and I was just like, so you're interrogating people, but you're saying it's carbon monoxide poisoning. So what is it? Because it's not making any sense if it's carbon monoxide poisoning. Okay, cool. There's no, you know, there's no suspects, no people of interest to look into. But here you are questioning her just because she knocked on the door and.

[Tatiana]

Called you guys and lying, saying that you guys.

[Unnamed Speaker]

That we said. And they were just like, oh, no, like, that's not true. Like, kind of just like, dismissing me at this point. And I'm just like, you know what? Before I end up saying something that will get me in trouble, let me just walk out, cool down. And I went and spoke to her, and I was like, a million. Never in a million years. Like, at this point, I see you as like, my grandmother. Like, you were her closest person here, you know?

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

We end up squashing that, moving on. She ends up going home, and I'm just like, amelia, you know, we'll pass by your house later and, like, talk to you. Like, just calm down. Because we didn't want her to have, like, a heart attack or something, you know?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But I had to, like, assure her that we never would have thought that it was her. So it gets to the point where my dad is just like, okay. Like, you know, do you guys have any other people of interest that you're looking into? And they're like, no. And my dad's like, okay. So we left that day, right? And we're just like, okay, like, who. Who could have possibly, like, had access to them? Long and behold, Mark is the only person that has keys to every door of that house. And we didn't know this until, like, the second, third day. And that day when we had put two and two together, we were just like, what the. Like, he has keys, you know? And my dad had met up with him that night and was just like, mark, you need to give me the keys to my house. Mark's like, no, it's my house. I'm not giving you the keys. I can open the door for you, but I'm not giving you my keys. And my dad's like, no, you need to give me my keys. And he's just like, no, they're my keys.

[Tatiana]

Technically, your dad would own it now.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, he's trying to claim that it's for him because he was basically the son that lived in Portugal. But it's like, they're not even your parents.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know? And it was. I'm not even kidding. I remember just watching this whole conversation. It was, like, maybe an hour and a half of fighting about these keys. And mind you, this man is half the height of my dad. I just told my dad, I was like, why don't you just beat his ass? Because at this point, it's like, you're making it hard. Like, why are you being like this? Clearly, like, there's something that you don't want us to know. You're holding back. Because if you were really genuine. You'd be like, oh, here's the keys to your house. Like, you know what I mean? Like, not. Why are you putting up a fight?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It was just very, like, passive aggressive. Like, what's going on? Instant red flag. We go to sleep that night, and the next morning, I, like, woke up my dad, and I was like, no, something's not right. I was like, something about him is, like, driving me nuts. He's showing up everywhere that we're at. He shows up at the house unannounced. He made a fight over the keys, for God's sake. And said that it's his house, knowing damn right it's not his house. You know, until my dad was like, something's weird. Like, I don't want to be around him. I don't want to be near him. My dad's like, okay. Like, you know, if we see him, you know, I'll just tell him to leave. I'm like, okay, cool. That same day, back to the routine. I went back to the house. I, like, drove myself crazy for two weeks going through this house until my sisters got there, because they didn't end up getting there until, like, two days before the funeral. So every day I was going to the house, and every single day after that day, after the keys were found, he would show up while I was in that house by myself. The same exact day. Would just show up behind me. And I'm just like, would he ever.

[Tatiana]

Try to talk to you or say.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No, he would never announce himself. And then he'd just be like, I'm just looking at what you're doing, so.

[Tatiana]

Just hovering.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. And I'm just like, for what? Like, what do you need? Do you need something?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, do you need food or something? Because there's none here. What do you leave? He would leave after I would tell him to leave, but, like, if I wouldn't have. Like, there was one day where I was just, like. I was so out of it. I was mentally drained. I didn't even feel like talking. That day. I saw him, and I just walked right past him, and he just kept hovering around me until I. I snapped at him. I was like, can you get the. Away from me? Because it's just like, you're. Now you're following me. Like, you can be in the house. Cool. I don't care.

[Tatiana]

It's so uncomfortable.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Stop following me around the house when it's just me and you and I don't even know you like that to begin with.

[Tatiana]

It's also Just, like, disrespectful.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Exactly. The family, like, it's just like, what do you want?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know? So it got to the point where my dad had confronted him and was just like, you need to leave again alone. Like, stop showing to the house. Stop showing up unannounced because you're making her uncomfortable. Like, it's getting out of hand at this point. And he took it so offensively. And my dad was, like, nice about it, you know, like, hey, just, you know, give her her space. Like, she's going through it, you know, Very nice. I wouldn't have said it that way, but, you know, I give my dad props, but he took it offensively and then stopped coming near us completely. And I was just like, okay. Like, I didn't mean it that way, but, like, at least announce yourself when you're coming by, you know, Because I'm already shooting scared being in this house by myself. It's cold. The energy's weird. Like, I'm traumatized. I'm trying to think about what happened in this house, and here you are showing up unannounced. Like, of course it's gonna scare me and make me uncomfortable, you know? So he ended up not talking to us the remainder of the trip. I was there for three weeks. So eventually my sisters get there and my uncle gets there. It's just them three that get there, and we're like, okay, you know, like, the funeral is gonna be. I can't even remember what day of the week it was on. Whenever the funeral was. Like, the funeral is going to be this day. And then, you know, that'll be it, you know, and then we'll have a week together where all of us can spend time together.

[Tatiana]

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[Unnamed Speaker]

So, you know, leading up to the funeral, you know, we went back to the house so that my sisters can see it, my uncle can see it. Obviously it's, like, cleaned up and not, like, how it was when I got there. And they. I guess because it was cleaned up, it didn't. I don't know how it affected them because honestly, none of us have talked about it. We're not really good at talking about, like, how we feel. Like, do we have moments? Yeah, but, like, how would it affected us? No, like, nobody knows how I feel about it.

[Tatiana]

It.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, and it's so bad. I mean, now they probably will, but, you know, it was weird. Like, they were just like, okay, like, you know, it's not that bad in here. The door was fixed. Everything was cleaned. All the marks were clean. The only thing that wasn't. That could not get off the floor was the spot on the wood where my grandmother's fluids were coming out. That stain could not come out, so it's just there. So I was like, whatever, you know, like, this is where grandma died. It's where grandpa died. You know, this is the house. You know, Like, I don't know how to tell you guys, but this is where it happened. And everyone just kind of. It was like a moment of silence. Like, you know, I was already comfortable in there. Like, I was like, okay, I've been here for two weeks. Like, yeah.

[Tatiana]

And by yourself?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, Like, I'm already comfortable being in here. But it hit them when they got there. And then that day, we just took the time to, like, go through pictures and, like, who was taking what? Like, who wanted to keep this item from the house? Like, because there's a lot of cute things that we all brought back home. So then, you know, fast forward. We're, like, spending time together. We eventually go to the funeral, and at this point, we still don't know anything. No answers, no investigations are going on. From what they said. Oh, backtrack. When they went through the house, they said they took samples of things. There's no samples taken of anything. I know that because there was, like, a plate of food. It was like pasta, but it was, like, molded. Because obviously days went by.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It wasn't touched. You would think, like, they would take a piece of the pasta. They would, like, take the cup to see who, like, touched it. Nothing. They didn't take anything from the house. They just took the bodies and left. So fast forward to the funeral. I remember waking up so early. I think it was like 7am it was a drag. I remember because it was raining, it was cold. We're all getting ready, and we. How it works is the, like, viewing and the funeral is, like, at the same time in the church. And they were just like, okay. Like, you guys get 30 minutes before anybody can go in to see the bodies. And we're like, okay. So we get there, and my dad has these. They're like second, third cousins. I don't know what the hell they are. It's like a mom and her two daughters. I can't stand them. I've always gotten a bad vibe from them. Because whenever there was times where I would FaceTime, my grandmother, she'd be like, oh, look who's here. Like, the girls are here. And they would just like. I could tell they were bribing my grandmother. My grandmother loved shopping. But, like, they would, like, make my grandma buy them all these, like, expensive things. Not, like, bougie stuff, but just, like, expensive things. Make them have them take them shopping and stuff. And I'm like, grandma, what are you doing? To the point where, like, at one point I was mad at my grandma because she'd be like, they're like, my granddaughters here. And I'm like, no, they're not, right?

[Tatiana]

No.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, no, absolutely not. So I grew that, like, I don't like you just from that, you know? So we saw them at the cafe, because the cafe is right below the church. And let me picture it. It's like my grandmother's house, the cafe, the church, and the cemeteries behind the backyard.

[Tatiana]

So everything's pretty close.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Everything's really close, like, walking distance. So we're at the cafe, you know, we're having coffee in the morning. Like, we're waiting for the funeral director to let us know. Like, the coffins are in there. And they let us know. And we're just like, okay, like, we're finishing up. We'll be there in like a second. These three ladies think that they're like, primary family. They end up going inside before us. And I lost my. I walked in that church and they're over here, like, hovering on the coffins. And I think I blacked out in that moment because I was like, yeah, you guys need to get the out of this church. Like, they're not your family. I'm so sorry. Like, second, third, whatever. You weren't raised by them. Like, you just met them like, two years ago. There should be no reason why you felt the need to, like, lack respect for us and think that you guys got, like, first dibs on, like, seeing them. Like, that's so disrespectful. Whatever. They ended up, like, catching a fit with me, but they got out the church, you know, And I'll never forget, like, walking into that church and seeing, like, coffin side to side. It was just traumatizing. Like, I. I could not cry. With a Venmo debit card. You can Venmo more than just your friends. You can use your balance in so many ways. You can Venmo everything. Need gas? You can Venmo this. How about snacks? You can Venmo that. Your favorite band's merch. You can Venmo this. Or their next show. You can Venmo that. Visit Venmo me Debit to learn more. You can Venmo this or you can Venmo that. You can Venmo this. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license by MasterCard International, Inc. Card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music, and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more. Like I couldn't cry. I think it's because everyone else that I was with was crying. It's kind of like I just kind of like blocked out my feelings in that moment, you know?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And seeing my dad, like, my dad is like breaking down on top of my grandmother's coffin. My uncle's on my grandfather. And I'm just like, fuck. Like, so this is like real fucking life right now. Because I think before the funeral happened, I think I was like denying it. Like, I was like, no, they're going to come back. But really seeing them like in their coffins, I was like, holy shit. Like, this is not. This isn't like a dream, it's not a nightmare. Like, it's not fake. This is like real life. And just hearing them cry, it's like, you know when people say like, you like the scream of like a mother when their child dies. The scream of my dad and his and my uncle at that funeral is like embedded into my brain. Like, it was just so bad. And I remember the coffins, they're not open because they don't really do a good job with embalming in Portugal. So it's like a glass. So you see them through the glass type of thing. You can't touch them. And I remember I went to go look at my grandfather first. He looked so peaceful, like, so peaceful. I was like. And I'm the one that picked their clothes out too, so I was proud. I was like, okay. Like, I bought him this button up shirt. Like, he looks good, you know, he looks very much at peace. When I went and saw my grandma, I'm not even kidding, she looked so upset. Like, not obviously like a dead person isn't gonna look happy, but she did not look like she was at peace.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And it was. I mean, her face had swollen up and I think it's due to like how she died, like post mortem, like, I guess all the fluids, I don't know. But she just did not look like herself, like, at all. It was so bad that, like shook me.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, I was like, I actually got scared.

[Tatiana]

Like, it's hard to see your loved one like that because it's them, but it's not right, like at all. It's like very uncomfortable. It's weird. It's a very weird.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's weird. And it's like I've been so. To a hundred, like, not even hundreds. But I've been to a lot of funerals in my time, you know, So I know what a dead person looks like. I know what to expect. But I have never seen anybody in the condition my grandmother was in. Like, you know, I know that they, like, fix your lips to make you. But she was frowning, like, completely frowning. And I remember looking at my sisters, and I was like, no, Grandma does not look happy at all. You know, like, that. They didn't even bother to fix her face, which pissed me off, because it's just like, come on. I supplied you guys with everything. Like. Like, I gave you the outfit. I brought you her nail polish. Like, you guys could have, like, made her look good, you know? But, you know, it's the afterlife. I mean, but I know she. Like, me and my sisters, we all have, like, dark humor, but we were just like, grandma would have killed somebody if she's like. If she knew that people saw her in that condition.

[Tatiana]

Right?

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know? But, I mean, it is what it is. During the funeral, I ended up doing the eulogy, which is apparently not a thing in Portugal. I didn't know this. I did it for my own peace of mind. And I remember when I was doing it, I was watching every. Like, it's like, random people in that church. Like, people from the village. I don't know anybody. I just know my family and my dad's friends who flew purposely to support him, which they're real ones, love them to death. But everyone else in that church, I didn't know a single person. I'm just like, who are these people? You know? So during the eulogy, I'm, like, scanning through everybody, because I'm just like, no, something's wrong. Like, something. Someone in here knows something, you know? And even when, like, everybody was, like, going. You know, when, like, you go to the coffin, you give your condolences or whatever, I was watching every single person, right? And I'm like, okay. So I had, like, an image of everybody that I had saw in the church. And, you know, the funeral wraps up. We end up walking the coffins to the cemetery. And we're walking, and I'm still just eyeballing everybody because, like, I'm scanning on, like, who's gonna be pointed out to me, you. And we get to the point where we're putting the coffins in the ground, and my dad couldn't watch it. Like, he was just like, I can't do it. My uncle watched my grandmother go in and then was like, I can't see the rest because she went in first. And so after I made sure they were, like, fitted correctly because they went right on top of each other, which is, like, weird. I Know they're gonna crush each other, but, you know, dark humor. But after I knew that they were, like, set in stone, I looked at my sisters. I was like, I'm gonna go find dad.

[Tatiana]

Dad.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And right across the cemetery, it's like, a little chapel. And I saw my dad, like, just around the corner, like, hidden. I was like, okay, that's where he is. He's probably hiding. So I went up to him, and I'm hugging him, and, you know, he's breaking down. He's like, I can't believe, you know, this is. This is what we did today, you know?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And I was like, yeah, I know. Like, it sucks. And he's over here smoking a cigarette. At this point, we're just, like, looking at each other. And this lady that I did not see the whole day comes around the chapel, and she's, like, my height, petite, and she's like, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. I looked at her. I looked at my dad. I was like, excuse me. Like, dad, who the is this? She was like, yeah, I'm talking to you. She was like, you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. And I was like, excuse me. I was like, who are you? And at that time, I had made a GoFundMe to, like, support my family during that time. It wasn't even for that much. It was just for, like, necessities that we needed to get done. She was just like, you should be ashamed that you guys are asking for money when, you know, your grandparents had money. And I looked at her, and I was like, excuse me. How do you know they have money when we don't? Because one thing about them, they were very secretive about their money. Nobody knew, not even us. Like, especially my grandfather, very private with his money. And she's just like. She's, like, rambling at this point. I blacked out because I wanted to kill her. Because I just buried my grandparents not even, like. Like 10 minutes ago. And you're in my face. Calling is basically a disgrace.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And she's, like, talking her. I remember just looking at her and plotting what I was gonna do to her. And it got to the point where she looked at my dad, and she was like, yeah. And I was more of a daughter to your parents than you were a son. And I looked at my dad, and it's like we both, like, clicked. And we started chasing her, and I was going crazy. I was calling her all the names in the book. Book in Portuguese and, like, asking all these, like, older women. I'm like, who is she? Like, who is she? Like, where does she come from? Clearly, she was not at the funeral because she looked like she just finished gardening at her house. Okay. Full of dirt.

[Tatiana]

Was she, like, middle aged?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Not, like old like my grandparents, but definitely, like, around my dad's age. Like, 40, 50s.

[Tatiana]

And if she was such a child to them, how is it that none of you have seen or heard?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Exactly. And nobody in the community, like, in the village, know who you are? Yeah, because I asked everybody, like, you know, all these older women, obviously they would go to church with my grandmother. And I'm just like, does anybody know who she is? And everyone's like, tatiana, we don't know who she is. And I'm like, so who the is she? Like, why does she think that that was okay? So I end up blacking out maybe like, 20 minutes. I'm just going crazy at this point. She ends up getting to her car before we could reach her because my dad's. One of my dad's cousins, like, restrained him. Another one grabbed me, preventing us from getting to her. And then I'm just, like, yelling for, like, 20 minutes, just going crazy. And so then it gets to the point where we're just like, okay, like, my dad's friends are calming me down. They're like, just let it go. Like, we're gonna go get lunch. Let it go. So we all end up going to lunch. And it's so funny, I have to put this in because I just believe that it was like my grandma's doing. My dad ends up riding with one of his friends. My dad's like, tatiana, you take the car. You drive your sisters down. And I'm like, okay. So me and my sister stayed back a little bit. Like, I have to really decompress before I sit at a table with people. So I was like, okay, like, let's just sit in the car for a little bit. You know, the car was on. The thing is, my dad took the key with him, and it's pouring rain, nobody's answering their phones. And I'm just like, no. And my sister's like, yeah, that's grandma doing that. She's telling you to calm the down. Because I was on go time. Like, all I was seeing was right at that. At that moment, and it was so funny. We end up getting to lunch, and everybody's just like, tati, like, what happened? Because a lot of people were confused because nobody saw that interaction. It was like there were so many people there, but nobody saw us talking to her. So I was like, Is this a ghost?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, I can't be that crazy. I can't be losing my mind that much, you know? And everyone. My dad's cousin Isaac, who's the emt, you know, he knows everybody because he's always, like, helping people. He's just like, tatiana. I don't know who that is. And I'm like, so where the did she come from?

[Tatiana]

Did she give you her name?

[Unnamed Speaker]

No, nothing. Just came over there to talk her and ran. And I'm just like, okay. Days go by, and I'm on the hunt for her. Like, I'm walking around this neighborhood. Don't even know where I'm going at this point. Just walking around looking for her. She pops out. Yeah, I need to find her, because clearly you're gonna be around. Could not find her. And, you know, the days go by, my sisters and my. Not even my uncle, because my uncle didn't even. He ended up staying a week. He left his green card here, so that's a whole different story. But he ended up staying a week with us. My sisters ended up leaving, and my dad ends up, like, going to the detectives again to, like, get more information. They're still like, yeah, we don't have anything for you. And it's just like, bro, it's been like, two weeks. Like, come on, you know, like, two, three weeks and still nothing. No, you just have to wait for the autopsy results. And we're like, okay, how long is that going to take? I don't know. Three, four, six, maybe eight months. Maybe a year. And me, my dad and my uncle are looking at them like, what? You guys don't have any, like, sense of urgency? Like, how does that work? Oh, we took samples, and then, you know, like, the samples will be tested with time.

[Tatiana]

Do you know how long autopsies usually take here?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, three weeks. Okay, but they keep the body while they're doing the autopsy, though, do they not? I think they do.

[Tatiana]

I think so.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. I don't think the body gets released until the autopsy is completed. Sometimes it's even less than three weeks. But, you know, me knowing that here and then over there, them telling me nearly a year, I'm just like, what? Like, something's weird, right? So I'm like, okay, nothing's adding up. Like, I'm just on, like, detective mode. Like, I'm like, okay, this lady came up to me. Mark is weird. Like, I'm trying to add all the dots together, and I'm just like, okay, what is weird about this? Right? So I end up Meeting with a whole bunch of my dad's other cousins. Right. And I'm telling them this and them I'm really close, I'm closer with. They're like mostly women, so it's like I have more like connection with them.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And I'm telling them, like, what I'm thinking. And the thing that stood out to me is, okay, Mark had the keys, right. They drank a glass of wine, they got up out of bed and they were sick. The only thing that possibly makes sense is being poisoned.

[Tatiana]

That's what I was thinking too.

[Unnamed Speaker]

The only thing that makes sense and the fact that the cops are sitting here saying there was no forced entry. Well, duh. Mark had keys to the house. So what I'm assuming is that Mark probably went over that night, Sunday night, and was like, hey, like, aunt, uncle, like, I have a bottle of wine. My grandparents loved wine. Easy enough. Probably put something in that bottle. He probably didn't drink that night. Had them drink. It was like, okay, like, you know, I'm a head home. Went home. And I'm assuming they, like went to bed and they woke up God knows what time, felt bad. You know what they say, like, some poisons, like, when I did my research on this, I went down a rabbit hole with my sisters. When two people consume the same amount of poison at the same time, one person ends up lasting just a little bit longer than the other, if that makes sense. Like, depending on like your immune system and how your body works. And we all, like sat down and talked about it. We were just like, I like, we all believe that my grandfather felt sick first. And my grandmother was probably like, yeah, he probably.

[Tatiana]

Because he was the one that it was going through, right?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, he was going through it. And we were just like, okay. Like, he probably felt bad first. And then my grandmother probably had gone up. And this is one thing that we didn't notice until. I mean, I noticed when I found it. I have found their phones, but I didn't, like, until the third week. I didn't really touch their phones. I don't know why. It just never clicked. My grandmother had a flip phone and my grandpa had an iPhone. The one that we had bought him, the flip phone, no SIM card in it. And my grandfather's iPhone has a six digit passcode that I cannot get into to save my life. I think I've locked it out for like a thousand hours because every time I get that, it unlocks box. I like, try again.

[Tatiana]

And it adds.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It just. It just adds to the count. So I'VE given up. But it's like he was. He wasn't tech savvy. Like, there's no way he could learn how to put a passcode on a phone at all. Nor did he want one. All he knew how to do on that iPhone was FaceTime, take a picture and the call. Like, to call people. That's all he knew how to do. He didn't even know how to text. So how could he possibly put a password on his phone? And why is there no SIM card in my grandmother's flip phone? So my theory is she probably got up, went to try and call for help, and then she was like, okay, like, the is going on with the phones. She probably went to her closet. She ended up dying with one of her favorite jackets next to her. And it's like this jacket that she even wore here. So when I heard that she grabbed that sweater, I lost it, because I was like, oh, my God. Like that. That was her go to little cardigan. And that's how I knew. I was like, yeah, she definitely was trying to run out and get help because you're basically the way she was at. It's like she was trying to leave the closet and she just collapsed.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And that's right by the door. Like, literally, like, rooms are here, doors are here. Like, not even maybe like, four steps. And she just never made it out the closet.

[Tatiana]

So possibly it would be that what these people, Mark, maybe this other woman maybe found out that your grandparents had money and.

[Unnamed Speaker]

To see.

[Tatiana]

I guess my confusion is why would they be going to the bank? They can announce it. Like, how would they. Like, I wonder what major grandparents say that.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, that's my thing. And I. And I asked Emily. I was like, did you ever see them leave, though? She was like, dati, no. Because I was like, she lives in the basement of her house. So she was like, I didn't really. I can't see anything from, like, where I live in my house. She's like, so I didn't really notice that they left or not.

[Tatiana]

It's just so weird that I feel like your grandma would say. I mean, and there are. I've heard stories where sometimes people just say that because they just happen to say it. They get the urge to. And it's like, in your mind or spirit, you kind of know your time's coming. Even if she didn't actually have a reason to say that. But it is weird, like, if. Like, to announce the bank thing and then that. Especially if they.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I definitely think that they were threatened. In some kind of way, because turns out that lady. So this is. I found this out months after I was back home. The lady that came up to us at the cemetery, she's the head of the police station. Yeah. And my grandparents are buried right next to her dead husband.

[Tatiana]

So how did you find that out?

[Unnamed Speaker]

So Isaac ended up investigating because he remembered her face.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And he was like, no, I have to find out who she is. But she's, like, so deep into her office that nobody really knows who she is unless you, like, really work for the, like, that police department or whatever. And he was like, no, like, I had to find out. And I ended up finding out who she was. And I was like, and she lives down the street. And I was like, interesting.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And guess who. Who she's besties with Mark. They're close friends. And I was like, oh, isn't that ironic? That's why he never got interrogated, because they would have refused to interrogate him. They would say that they had no reason. One of the last times they try to go up to him and ask him, like, hey, can we just question you? Like, and he's like, I'm not a part of that family. But when they first died, you were. You were like, telling everybody, my uncle, my aunt. Like, my uncle, my aunt. And now you're not family, you know? And of course they're not gonna bug him about it. They just kind of let him go.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I'm just like, okay, whatever. I guess, you know, there's only so much we can do, you know, because we don't really know the laws out there as well as they do, you know?

[Tatiana]

And did you ever figure out about the food?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Nope.

[Tatiana]

Like, why would someone steal food?

[Unnamed Speaker]

So here's something we ended up learning. And I ended up going back to Portugal this past September, and we had visited my grandmother's best friend, who, like, she lives in America. Like, she does six months here, six months there. So we end up going to see her for the first time. And she told my dad. She was like, you know, your mom had a backpack of $50,000 in it right in the house. Like, she had showed me maybe, like, two, three weeks before she died. My dad's like, what the hell are you talking about? And she told me it was a purple backpack. And that is one thing till this day I cannot find. And I know that purple backpack because my grandma used it when she lived here, like it was her go to bag. She was never gonna throw that bag away way. Okay, that's one thing. I could never find in that house. And I'm like, okay, so the food's gone. This backpack of $50,000 is gone. Okay, like, what other motivation would it be? So then I started, like, putting two and two together. I was like, well, Mark is relatively poor. He's not even poor. He's a server. He works in a restaurant. He makes good money, but his house is, like, all stone. Like, very low class, you know what I mean? Doesn't really have much to himself, but it's kind of just like, okay, was that his motive to steal from them? As if he couldn't ask. Yeah, they would have gave it. Gave it to him. You know what I mean? And, you know, we're, like, putting all these, like, theories together. And at this point in Portugal, like, the bank account, they, like, automatically. The government locks them when somebody dies, right? Unless somebody's, like, name is on the actual account. My dad's was not on the account. So we find out months later that Mark's name is on the account. And he never once mentioned it to my dad.

[Tatiana]

That's so weird.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Never brought it up. And so my dad. How did he find out? I think my dad ended up getting a letter in the mail.

[Tatiana]

So to market money from them, we have no clue.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So there's still one. The bank account that has his name on it. I think there's two accounts. One account, my dad went to his house, picked him up, and was like, you're gonna go with me in the bank and give me this money because of all the things that we have to pay. We had to pay for the headstone. Like, yeah. You know, the burial site. You know what I mean? And it's so last minute. Nobody's prepared to bury two people realistically, you know? So my dad ends up taking him against his will and, like, like, you know, get stuff figured out. But turns out there's a whole different account now. It's like, the more time goes by, the more things, like, start showing up.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's just really weird. And he still, till this day, will not talk to us. And it's just like, okay, like, I guess, you know what I mean? It's because everyone assumes that it was you. You know, only a guilty person would cut themselves off from the family for no reason after a funeral. I'm so sorry. Like, what else is new?

[Tatiana]

And there's no way that they both. Like, it was. It's so obvious. How they died was so sudden.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. And they were healthy. That's what I'm saying.

[Tatiana]

Yeah. Honestly, and they were clearly both sick. Like, something happened.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Something definitely triggered it. And it's so crazy because my grandparents, they weren't ready to die. Like, they were full of life. Like, there was no way. You know what I mean? And it's just like, if they were old, like, if they were a little bit older and they were sick, you know, maybe we would have different thoughts. But they were full of life.

[Tatiana]

And especially to die at the same.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Time, and especially to say to Amelia the day before, like, the last time you're seeing, like, take care of my dogs.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, obviously, like, I knew my grandma knew something. I don't think the thing that we will never know is if. Were they threatened?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, were they getting blackmailed by somebody? You know what I mean? Like. Like, those are questions that run through, like, my head. I know they run through my family's head all the time. Right.

[Tatiana]

It's almost like if they were poisoned, that would be the most simple answer.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's the easiest way.

[Tatiana]

Yeah, that's, like, to me, that's, like, the very simple answer to it. But, like. Yeah, that's a good point, too. Like, especially with the comments that they made. It's like, who knows if they were being threatened or blackmailed?

[Unnamed Speaker]

So then we end up getting.

[Tatiana]

We got the autopsy results, and that was recently, right?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And I'm reading them. My knee. They're not in English, so, like, I have to translate some words because big words, like, in Portuguese, I can make. Work with what I can read. Yeah, but, like, big medical words I can't. I can't make.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Make it work. So I end up translating it, and I'm going through this autopsy, and I'm just like, okay, it looks like they measured everything and weighed every organ. But, like, did they do a toxicology report? No. Did they, like, test their blood? Like, you know, matters of, like, you know, their brain? Like, you know, under the fingernails can always. Like, there's a certain poison. I forgot what poison it is. But it's only. Detective. Detected in your fingernails. They didn't do a thorough autopsy. It was kind of like they cut them open, they took their organs out, weighed them, looked at the color, and then put them right back, and that was it.

[Tatiana]

And then on the bottom, actually test for anything?

[Unnamed Speaker]

No. And then on the bottom, it says it was. I think they had put, like, 20 or 30% carbon monoxide. They were like, this was a. Then it's another bullet bulletin point. And it's like the matter of death was a violent cause. And I'm just like, how does that make any sense? Because, again, carbon monoxide is a silent killer. You don't feel it happening, you know, so it's kind of just like what you put in your autopsy result in the report. It's kind of like it was all just, like, fake. Like, you just wrote whatever.

[Tatiana]

Were you able to question it at all, or.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No? No. So I haven't been back since. I'm going back this summer, and hopefully I can get some more information. But the way they just don't care about this case, I mean, yeah, my dad's even over it at this point. Like, you know, it's his parents, but he's just like, Tatiana, it's like, I'm not getting anywhere with this. Like, they will literally sit in your face and be like, we have better cases.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Or we already told you it's carbon monoxide. That's it. Like, Right.

[Tatiana]

Like, at this point, there's. You don't. You guys don't have the resources to figure it out.

[Unnamed Speaker]

If we were rich. Rich, and we had, like, money, maybe then they would care, but because they see that we live an average life. You know what I mean? They're just like.

[Tatiana]

And like you said, probably because they were older and if someone was involved.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

They know then it's like a whole.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Little, like, mafia going on in there. Like, there's definitely, like, dirty cops in there.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's so bad. I'm just like, this is so ridiculous.

[Tatiana]

And you'll never have that sense of, like, closure.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

And, like, you can assume, but, like, who even actually knows?

[Unnamed Speaker]

And it's so crazy because I ended up, like I said, my mom's very big into, like, spirits. So we ended up going in September to a medium. And in Portugal, there's like, mediums that, like, legit let the spirits. Like, it's like an exorcism.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Okay. I thought we were going to, like, a medium like Teresa Caputo. Like, she's just gonna. You know this, right? They're just gonna tell me what they're saying. Thing. Mind you, we were there. This medium only worked from like, 3 in the morning until 9am like, you had to be waiting outside of his house and you would pull a ticket. Whose ever number was called is whose turn it was. Because it's people from, like, Italy, France, like, Greece. People that would come all the way down to see him. Right. And I'm thinking, okay, like, this guy got to be something big. Like, you know, like.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I don't know what I'm Expecting. I'm like, sleep deprived. It's 3 o' clock in the morning. We didn't get called till 8am okay, we finally get called in, so you.

[Tatiana]

Just have to stand there and wait.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, like, you sit around, like, his patio. Like, he's got like five, six cats. Like, little black cats that walk around. Like, I mean, it makes sense. Which has like, all these cats, you know, they're so cute. So obviously it kept us, like, occupied and we're like, talking to other people there and nobody's really telling us how it's going to go down. I think my mom knew, but she didn't want to tell me. So we end up getting to the room and I'm over here, like. Like, okay, I'm gonna, like, voice record it. I'm gonna hide my phone. I couldn't, because then he was like, can I see a picture of your grandparents? Because, you know, my mom told him why we were there and obviously I stopped it because I didn't want him to, like, I don't know, I got like, shy. So I was like, okay, I'm just not gonna record him because I don't want to go through that awkward.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Confrontation. So we show him the picture and it's like, instantly I knew this is a grown man with a grown voice. Okay. Instantly, like, he, like, snaps into something and he lays down in the exact position. Position my grandmother was laid down in. And it's her exact voice coming out. Like, I felt so stuck to my seat. Like, her cry. I mean, everything was her voice. Like, I never thought I would hear that voice in front of me again. It was like, what did he. What did she say? He say, yeah, whatever it was she. I mean, the voice, it was crying and it was just like. She was just like, mark did it.

[Tatiana]

Nuh.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. And me and my mom. And my mom's like, getting up. She's like getting up from the chair and, like, you know, because she's asking to hold her hand. And my mom's like, tatiana, go. And I'm like, no. Like, I could. Like, my body could not move. Like, I could not move. So my mom's, like, holding her hand and she's like, he came over and he gave us a drink and we felt bad, so that's what had happened. And my mom's like, are you sure? And she's like, yeah. And he stole from the house.

[Tatiana]

And did you guys tell the psychic person?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Nothing.

[Tatiana]

So he didn't know anything about it.

[Unnamed Speaker]

He's not even from our town. So the Way the news reports work, it goes by towns. He's, like, three hours away from our town.

[Tatiana]

And you guys only showed him a picture?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, just a picture of them.

[Tatiana]

And did he use the marked person's name?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, like, to the T. And I was just like, what? When the voice was saying that. I'm not even kidding. Like, my mom's talking to her, and she's just like, no. And he stole from the house. Like, he stole my book bag and he stole stuff. My mom's like, what stuff? And then she just instantly starts crying, and it's like, I'm so sorry. Like, tell. Tell my son I'm sorry. Like, talking about my dad. Dad. She was like, tell him I'm sorry. And it's just, like, crying, and I'm, like, sitting there shitless. Like, I don't know what the to do. I couldn't. I don't even think I was blinking.

[Tatiana]

That's crazy.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And my mom's, like, talking to her, and she's in Portugal, like, what they do. Like, you know how, like, in Mexico they, like, go and, like, when you make a prayer to God, a promise, and they go. And, like, they go on their knees.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So in Portugal, we kind of have that. But, like, you, like, offer. You can offer something to a certain, like, saints or whatever. And my mom was like, technically, in our quilt, we're Catholic, so technically, like, when you make a promise, if it's not fulfilled before you're dead, you technically don't get to rest peacefully until it's completed. Okay, so what you can do, I guess through the spirits, whatever. She basically told my mom what promises she had left to complete. So that's how that conversation ended. And he just snapped right back into himself.

[Tatiana]

Now, does he remember what happened?

[Unnamed Speaker]

No, because I, like, he looked at me and he was like, what just happened? He was like, are you okay? Because I guess my face said it all. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. Get into your body's vitals with the Vitals app on Apple Watch. The Vitals app tracks key overnight metrics so you can spot changes in your health before you feel them. The Vitals app On Apple Watch, iPhone Xs are later required. The Vitals app is for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. And I was just like, is that.

[Tatiana]

Normally how it happens? Like, these people come through?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, apparently. Yeah. Because then I asked people outside, I was like, is this, like, what it is? And they're like, yeah, that's what he's known for. Apparently. He's been doing it since he was a kid. Like, he's just very, like, opened into spirits where he can, like, look at a picture and he can allow that spirit into them into him.

[Tatiana]

And I'm sure it makes a difference if they really have some things they need to say.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. I'm not even kidding. It was the most craziest things I've ever experienced in my life. I, like, till this day, I'm like, shooketh. Like, I even talking about it, I get, like, stuck.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And my mom's just like, yeah. She was like, I'm gonna kill that. Like, talking about Mark, Huh? And I was just like, I told.

[Tatiana]

You that was when. Back.

[Unnamed Speaker]

That was in September when I. Because my mom had finally went with us. And my mom was just like. Because my dad's not very big into spirits. Like, I guess now he is after that, after we told him, because he stayed outside. But, like, years ago, when we used to go, when my mom would talk to her dad, my dad would laugh, laugh. He thinks it's funny. Like, he's just like, there's no way. This is, like, real life. Right? It's fake, you know? But once we told my dad, like, word for word what was said, he was just like, oh, no.

[Tatiana]

So after that, did you guys try to contact Mark? And nothing.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So we ended up trying to find him. We even, like, pulled up to his house, couldn't find him. And we asked, like, everybody in the village, like, hey, is he working today? Like, what's going on? And they're like, oh, we haven't really seen him around. And we're just like, okay. Because he knows we're here. We were there for two weeks. Like, obviously he knows we're here, so he's avoiding us. We haven't seen him since. Until the last day. I left October 3rd, and my parents left the 4th, so I left by myself on the 2nd. I told my mom, I was like, you know, before I leave, I want to go pass by the grave site, say good my. My goodbyes to my grandparents and, like, say goodbye to the dogs. Because the dogs are still in the home. They protect the home right now.

[Tatiana]

Now.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And we're at the cafe, like, having a drink, and long and behold, who shows up. Mark. And mind you, I haven't seen him since February. Since February, March of earlier that year. And I don't know what took over me, but it literally felt like something was squeezing me to get out of there. Like, just a really bad feeling. But it literally felt like somebody was, like, squeezing my arms together. And I looked at my dad and I was like, no, we have to go. Mind you, this is the day after that whole medium stuff. So my dad was like, no, we have to leave. And the way he was, like, looking at my dad, like he's at a table and he's just, like, looking at my dad. It was just very.

[Tatiana]

Because it's probably one of those things that if all of that is the truth, he probably, like, he know. He knows, but he probably knows that you guys will never be able to prove it. It.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, he knows. He'll get. He'll get away with it.

[Tatiana]

Yeah. Because where is. Like, if they didn't do the autopsy, there is no proof.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Exactly.

[Tatiana]

Like, they would have had to say, oh, they were poisoned. Which, like, to me, that was, like, my first thought as well, because, like, what.

[Unnamed Speaker]

What else? You know what I mean?

[Tatiana]

Like. But. And like you said, with the carbon monoxide, it's like, they would have not been.

[Unnamed Speaker]

They wouldn't have never been moving. Yeah, yeah. The fact that they had full range to move that far right from their bedroom all the way to the other side of the house, you wouldn't do that with carbon monoxide.

[Tatiana]

I'm just surprised that if he poisoned them with the wine that he. Like, that it was left there.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So the wine bottle was not.

[Tatiana]

Certainly the glass was just.

[Unnamed Speaker]

The glass was.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But they didn't sample anything.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And that's one thing that I kept bringing up to them. Every time he went to the police station, I'm like, you guys didn't even take samples of anything. So then we end up finding out in September, we went back and we questioned them again. We were just like, have you guys found out anything? Because we didn't have the autopsy yet.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And they're just like, no, the case is closed. And I'm like, okay, who are the detectives on there? And they were like, oh, actually, there's a new set of detectives. Because the detectives that went initially, they were trainees, and they got moved to the Capitol. So that's why it makes sense. Because they were trainees. They didn't know what the hell they were doing.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know and that's why nothing was properly investigated, because, again, they had no experience. They were just like, okay, it's carbon monoxide. Let's move on. Let's go into something that's more, like, interesting, like a murder or whatever. You know, those kind of murders that are, like, bloody and, I mean, Right. You know, something more intriguing. They're newbies.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, and my dad was just like, that's ridiculous. Like, so basically, it's kind of like my parents, like, yeah, they're nobody. And they were just like, well, we can't reopen it.

[Tatiana]

And it sucks, too, because, like, I get it from your dad's perspective. It's like, at this point, it's just easier to let it go.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

And it's like, even if you had all the answers, what does it really do?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Right.

[Tatiana]

You know what? It won't bring them back.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It won't.

[Tatiana]

But it is really unfortunate that it wasn't taken as seriously. And it's. It's interesting, too, because I do think, like, obviously over there, it is a lot different than here, but at the same time, I feel like you never know how, you know, law enforcement is going to treat a case. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like sometimes they take.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It really seriously, and sometimes.

[Tatiana]

And sometimes they don't, especially. It depends, too. I feel, like, how much traction it gets.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Because then it's like they kind of have no choice to. Because people know about it. But it's almost like if they're able to not have to deal with something, why would they.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Right. It was just one last case that they were just like.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So for you, do you.

[Tatiana]

This all happened, what, like a year ago?

[Unnamed Speaker]

A little. Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Last year.

[Tatiana]

So do you feel like you have closure or.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No, I don't even think. Truthfully, I don't even think I've. Not that I haven't begun. Began grieving.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But I feel like I haven't really opened that door to fully, like, feel the feelings just because I'm. I'm one of those, like, people that, like, I just. I suffer in silence. I don't ever. Like, I'm really bad at asking for help. Like, and if I do, it's like, little. Not like, deep, deep, deep things like this, you know? I don't know. I don't think I've begun. And to top it off, I think the first time that I cried after they died, my mom's mom ended up passing four months later, so. But she was sick. But I think when she died was probably the first time that I had cried about all three of them together.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, I think it just, like, opened up that band aid and, like, I felt it for the first time, and then I put a band aid over it, and it's just. It's like it comes and goes. Like, there's times where I'm in the car and I'm like, fudge, man.

[Tatiana]

Like, it's sad, right?

[Unnamed Speaker]

That's so bad. Like, what the hell? Like, there's no way. Because I would have never in a million years thought this would happen to me and my family, you know? Like, you see it in documentaries. Like, I'm a crime junkie. I see it on documentaries all the time. I'm like, that's crazy.

[Tatiana]

You know, and probably in a way, too. I feel like it's easier to cope with it when you can kind of dive into it and look at it from that crime junkie perspective. Like, you can almost, like, want to investigate it and figure out, right, well, did this happen? Did that happen? And I feel like it allows you to put that band aid on and not feel it.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

As much.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, I think that's what I did. Like, I'm. I'm more investing. Like. Like, till this day, I feel like I can solve it. Like, I feel like the more times I go, I'm gonna get more, like, answers.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, and I know, like, my dad's over it. Like, you talk to him about it, and he's just like, I. He's like, it is what it is. Like, I think everyone is at least at peace that they went together, because, honestly, they would not have survived without each other. Like, there's no way they were together since they were, like, 15, 14 years old, you know? So that brings us some peace. That's the only thing that really, like, keeps me sane is like, okay, they went together. They're not suffering from each other's loss.

[Tatiana]

It's just unfair because there's no justice around.

[Unnamed Speaker]

There's no justice, and there's no direct answer. Like, it's kind of like you wake up, up every. Like, I wake up every day wondering, like, what if there was something that could have prevented that? Like. Or, you know, what if they were here and that didn't happen? You know what I mean? But my mom lives by this rule that, like, you know, God knows your birth date and he knows your death date, and nothing is going to get in the way with either one of those, you know? And that's. That's how we live in in my house. So my mom's like, you have to stop questioning it. And I'm like, I can't.

[Tatiana]

Like, Like, I think it's hard, too, because there are just so many questions surrounding it. Like, if you really thought about it, it's like, you could drive yourself crazy.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No. Yeah.

[Tatiana]

With the food, with the bank, with the comments.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I drove myself so crazy, like, the first two weeks that I was there, before my sisters got there, they brought me a. They made me a little bit more, like, sane. Yeah, more sane. Just because I had somebody to talk to that was, like. That could understand me. Like, obviously, I'm not gonna vent to my dad because my dad's going through it, you know? But before my sisters got there, I think I was, like, losing my. Like, looking back at it, I was going crazy. Just, like, I'm sure in my mind, like, I was not sleeping. Like, there would be nights that I'd wake up. It's like three, four o'clock in the morning. And I'm like, me and my dad at that point were sharing a room, and I would look at his bed, and he's, like, peacefully sleeping. And I'm like, damn, I can't sleep. And I was just not sleeping, right. Like, I would just, like, sit on the little balcony that we had, and I would just be contemplating everything that could have happened. Like. Like, what if they didn't drink this? Or, like, you know, where did that wine come from? Where was it bought? What kind of poison could it have been? I was doing so much research at one point that, like, my brain literally felt fried. And I was like, no, I have to stop.

[Tatiana]

Right? Because it's like, you're gonna just drive yourself crazy.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No, I was. Yeah. And then when my sisters got there, it was like, word vomit. Like, I could not stop talking because I was like, I have to get this all out of my brain because it's driving me nuts. And they were like, what the.

[Tatiana]

Well, I think, too, you know, like, I mentioned before, seeing the scene and knowing, like, where they passed away and how it wasn't necessarily peaceful. That, on its own is traumatizing. Like, I don't think we always necessarily, like, realize how much things like that stick with us. Like, I know.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

You know, like, you can be strong in moments like that. Like, which obviously, like, you very much were like, your dad didn't want to go in.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You did.

[Tatiana]

You handled it, whatever. But, like, I don't think we realized how much stuff like that, like, really gets embedded in our brains.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It, like, it changed Me, Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Definitely does something.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, I. I'm 100. Not the same person I was before this. Like, before I was, like, carefree, right?

[Tatiana]

Like, nonchalant.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Nonchalant. And now I'm just like, no. Like, real life will.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Hit you like it's nobody's business. Like, there's no mercy when life hits you. Like, I've definitely learned that. And it. It made me grow up even more because I was like, damn. Like, life could really be gone within a second. Like, you never know what's gonna happen. And I'm always on my P's and Q's with who I'm around because I. Especially my family. Like, I'm very overprotective over my family now to where, like, my parents are so over it. But, like, whenever they're not home, I'm like, where are you? What are you doing? Like, who are you with? Like, what time are you gonna be home? Like, I need to know everything now because it's just, like, granted, you know, I didn't get to speak to my grandparents the last time, obviously. Like, you know, maybe the way me and my grandmother were close, maybe I could have picked up something from her. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. My grandmother with me, we were very close. Like, that was my girl. Like, I could get a lot of things out of her because I could tell her I was the one that, like, could tell when she was hiding something. I feel like maybe she would have opened up about maybe an issue she was having.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

She obviously had to know something. Something had to be leading up to that point. And she hated him, mind you. Yeah, Mark. So. And my grandma was very. What is it? Intuitions, like, when you have, like, strong intuition. Yeah. So she always knew when something was wrong, you know, So I don't know. The world may never know, you know?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's crazy.

[Tatiana]

That's wild. So you go back this summer?

[Unnamed Speaker]

I go back this summer.

[Tatiana]

Are you going by yourself or.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No, I'm going with my. My whole family.

[Tatiana]

Okay, so the whole family will be there. How long are you going for?

[Unnamed Speaker]

We're gonna go for two and a half weeks.

[Tatiana]

And are you going to do this? Is the house in your dad's name now?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, so my dad's actually in the process of selling it. Because my dad. I mean, none of us want to. We can't sleep in there. Like, you walk in there and it's like, the first thing you think of. Like.

[Tatiana]

And like you said, it's like, I feel like in general, like, it's cold. Like, you just don't want to.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, I. Like, I. If I could, I would keep the house just because it's like, my grandmother's dogs are still there. They're the cutest things. I love them. They're like little humans.

[Tatiana]

So is the neighbor gonna take them?

[Unnamed Speaker]

So she. So how we have the house set up right now is she has the keys to the house. She has the garden. I mean, my grandparents's garden was, like, filled with everything. I'm not even kidding. Like, avocado is bigger than my head.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Okay. Like, so my dad was like, amelia, the. The garden, all the fruits and veggies, they're yours. That's your garden. You were the one that was helping them with it. That's you. If you need anything from the house, whatever's in there, you can have. And the dogs. And Amelia's like, yeah, I'm keeping them. But as of right now, they stay at the house to protect the house. You know, they alert when somebody's near the house. But we're selling the house because my dad's like, I can't keep it. It. We're probably. It's breaking my heart, but my dad's like, amelia can't have the dogs at her house because her dog is very. He's an ass. Like, he does not do good with other dogs. So now when I go in August, I have to find somebody who I trust with these dogs. I would bring them here, but it is way too much money to bring all three of them here.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, and I wouldn't want to do that. They're so used to the open lifestyle that they just wouldn't do good over here. I can't separate them because they're like three peas in a pot.

[Tatiana]

Right, Exactly. They're used to having each other.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. And they go like. And it's so cute when, before the funeral, they ended up escaping and, like, they ended up going to the cemetery, and they found the hole.

[Tatiana]

Stop.

[Unnamed Speaker]

They sat there, and my uncle found them. They ended up coming back home after they were buried. They escaped again, and they went to the funeral. To the funeral. They went to the cemetery. They know where they are.

[Tatiana]

They do?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. And they go. And Amelia tells me that they leave every day now. They go to the cemetery. They'll hang out there, and. And they'll come back when they're ready. She doesn't press them out. Yeah. So they're. They're close. So it's like, how can I move them away from that you can't.

[Tatiana]

And something will work out with that. You'll figure it out.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Oh, you know what? I remembering one of the dogs. His name is Bobby.

[Tatiana]

He.

[Unnamed Speaker]

All these dogs are super friendly, right? And during the time that I was going through the house, Bobby, mind you, even if I were to bring you, the dogs would not bark at you.

[Tatiana]

Yeah, they're.

[Unnamed Speaker]

They're like your puppy, super loving thing. But whenever Bobby would see Mark, I'm not even kidding. Like, he would start. And then the two other dogs would start foaming, growling out their mouths like they wanted to kill him. But they won't because they're too friendly.

[Tatiana]

Right?

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know what I mean?

[Tatiana]

But they just know that was an.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Instant, and that's something that still, till this day, does not sit right with me. Like, Amelia even told me the other day that he, like, passed by the house, and just even walking in front of the house, they lose their it. That is crazy, and I'm so sorry. Dogs have a really good intuition. They know something. And that's one reason why I want to keep them at the house. Because it's like, don't go near there. You know, there's been times, not even not too long ago. It's actually a few weeks ago. Amelia talks to my dad regularly now. Like, she basically took over Sundays. Like, we call her every Sunday.

[Tatiana]

Sweet.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And she actually called my dad a few Sundays ago, and she was just like, why did I find Mark trying to shove his old key into the keyhole of the house? House? My dad's like, for what? Apparently he, like, still claims that this is his house, and it's like, boy, it's for sale. Like, yeah.

[Tatiana]

Why would you even want it? That's so weird.

[Unnamed Speaker]

He's so weird till this day. And it's just like, just give it up, okay? Like, whatever you did, you did right. Whatever you took, just stay away. Just stay away at this point, because it's like, really? Like, what are you after? The house is empty.

[Tatiana]

Okay. I was gonna say, unless for some reason, they think there's still more stuff.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No, we emptied out. My dad had. Went just like a month or two ago, and he emptied out the whole house. He, like, donated everything. Like, I don't even know.

[Tatiana]

He, like, why even go over there?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, there's nothing in there. So it's like, why are you still going over there?

[Tatiana]

So weird.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Crazy.

[Tatiana]

Yeah, that's crazy. Well, I'm glad that you came on here and gave us your. Your detective story. No, that's crazy. It is, but it's Also heartbreaking, because it's.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's really heartbreaking. And it took a lot of people by shock. I mean, my grandparents were really known in the, like, the Portuguese community down here and in their church. So when it. When we announced it, everybody was like, what?

[Tatiana]

Like, it's, like, so shocking.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It shocked a lot of people. Like, and I'm honestly, I had. I had good support. Like, there was people that I haven't talked to in years. And, like, the support that I got was very, like. Like warming, you know, even though I didn't reply to a lot of people, because it's just. I just went MIA Like, I lost myself, but I never realized, like, you know, I've lost people, but, like, family. I never knew how much, like, how much support could, like, really help. I think that's why I somewhat stayed sane.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But it. It ruined a lot of people. There was a lot of people that were really, really upset about it. And it's just like, it. It changed everybody. Even till this day. Like, we go somewhere and like, my dad's friends see him, they're just like, you know, like, how are you? Like, any news? Like, everyone wants to know answers, and it's like, we don't have anything.

[Tatiana]

Well, it's shocking for you guys, and it's heartbreaking to lose. Like you said, like, no one expects to lose anyone, like, suddenly, but then both grandparents at once. And then on top of it, you get no answers and no sense of justice or closure. And then on top of it, it makes it so much more difficult that it's just in a different country, so it's, like, nearly impossible with the back and forth. And I feel like there's someone giving.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You a puzzle with no puzzle pieces. Like, with missing puzzle pieces. And it's just like, there's no. There's no end to it. It's just kind of like you're always.

[Tatiana]

Literally just like an unsolved mystery.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like a cold case.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

That's crazy.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I'm just numb to it. Like, I.

[Tatiana]

Right. It's almost like you have to be.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. Because it's like. Like I could, like, realistically, like, I have one of my friends is always just like that, you know? Like, you really have to feel your grief. And it's like, I can feel my grief, but I'm not gonna. As much as I want to, like, put myself into my bed and not get up for a week, I can't do that. Life doesn't stop. Time doesn't stop. Bills don't stop, you know? What? I mean, like, you kind of just have to learn how to live with it.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Even though it sucks, but it's like there's nothing else I can do. Nothing's gonna bring them back. Back.

[Tatiana]

Yeah. And I think that there's a way, too, to, like, accept it and. And everybody grieves so differently. Like some people. I mean, I'm that way too, where it's like, either I'll cry as soon as I find something out for like a minute and then it stops. And then I'll also have these times where when I'm crying about something else.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Then I end up crying about the things that I should have grieved, you know, in that moment. And, you know, everybody just handles that so differently. But at the same time, I feel like, too, there's a way to accept it, but then also become numb to it. Because if you don't, it's like you're just gonna keep going in circles. There is no, like, cut off with it.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I feel like grief just hits everybody so different.

[Tatiana]

So differently.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So differently. Because it's like, I don't even know how my siblings are grieving. Like, you could never tell.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You can't tell between any of us, like, who's. Who Is it really, like, hitting the hardest? You know, I think we're all just good at that. But it made me realize, like, damn, everyone really grieves differently. Like, I thought we were, like, all just depressed. You know what I mean? Like, we'll just cry for a few days. No, like, it really. This was an eye opener.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And now, like, you know, it's crazy because I think because I went through this trauma, I'm, like, awkward now when it comes to, like, people reaching out to me, like, when they've lost somebody, because it's like, I don't even know how to deal with it. You know, I'm so bad at it now because I. At first, I used to be good at it. Like, I was like, you know, like, it's gonna be all right. But now that I really face, I was like, like, no, it's not going to be all right.

[Tatiana]

Like, right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You're going to be wondering. You're going to be missing that person.

[Tatiana]

Yeah. And I think, too, because. Because so many people handle it differently. It's like you don't really know what to do. It's like, I feel like it. It's almost like all you can do is just be like, I'm here for you, like, whatever and whatever way you need it.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But it's and honestly, that I'm here for you goes a long way.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It goes like, you can't.

[Tatiana]

There's, like, literally no fixing it. So it's almost like. Yeah, you just have to tell somebody that and then kind of give them their space. Unless they want more than that, almost. But it does. It's like, I was just talking about that think last week. Like, it can be very uncomfortable and, like, weird. Like, I don't think we're really meant to know how to.

[Unnamed Speaker]

How to handle it.

[Tatiana]

Yeah. And how to help somebody that's going through it, because it's like, you. You don't know what to do. There is no right answer. There's nothing that's going to make somebody feel better.

[Unnamed Speaker]

She's a learning experience, to each their own kind of thing. And it's crazy because it's like.

[Tatiana]

Like.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like losing people in the past, I'm like, okay. Like, I know how I'm gonna grieve, you know, like, it's gonna be sad, but now that it's like a death that I have no answers to.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's kind of like it's prolonged. Like, it's kind of just like, there's no closure. So I can't really ever get over it, you know?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, it's kind of like I'm always sitting there questioning myself, like, you know, like, how did this happen? Like, how could it have happened? You know? And at one point, I was, like, questioning God at one point, because I was like, how did you let this happen to two people that followed you so close, closely? You know, obviously, like, my mom knocked me out of questioning that, but it got me to that point. Like, how is that fair?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, it's not like they were, like, bad people or whatever. Like, they were ill. Like, they just didn't deserve to go out like that. Like, I would have. I think I would have been more at peace if they were sick or, you know, if it was a car accident.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, something that, like. Okay, I have an answer, too, because with your.

[Tatiana]

Your mom's.

[Unnamed Speaker]

My mom's mom. She was sick.

[Tatiana]

And do you feel like you have complete closure with that?

[Unnamed Speaker]

I do. I saw her. So I had went to go see her when I was there in February, February, March, whenever. Week I was.

[Tatiana]

Oh, so she was over there, too.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So she lives in Portugal. Yeah. But she lives two hours away.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But I told my dad. I was like, look, let's take a break from being in your town. Let's go visit grandma. So seeing her, that was My last time seeing her, she was sick and. But she was like, oh, my God. My sister, one of my sisters, she has really liked dark jugs. And she was like, bro, like, grandma's like a cockroach that's never gonna die because she, like, had so many different cancers. Yeah. And she's been have. She's had cancer for, like seven plus years. Nothing keeps going ever stopped her. Like, she was still gardening. She was still like. Like, working out in her farm. Like, just was non stop.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, nothing could stop her. And I'm like, grandma, you need to slow down. Like, you need to relax. And she's like, no.

[Tatiana]

Like, why would I do that?

[Unnamed Speaker]

I'm by myself. I'm bored. Like, I have to do something. And I'm like, okay. Like, you know, when she died, I mean, I had spoken to her. My dad had went and saw her, like, two weeks before she died and had FaceTimed me. She was already in a home. They had at that point, put her in a home. Home. And I could tell she. I don't know if she was, like, actively having a stroke while I was on FaceTime with her, but I could definitely see her faces drop. And she looked like from how I saw her like four months ago to that point. I was like, no. I was like, yeah, she. Like, I already knew after that call. I was like, she's gonna go.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And I had forced my mom to go. When I was supposed to go with my dad. I think I was supposed to go meet up my dad. I can't even remember because my dad's gone, like 10 times since all this has happened. I was supposed to go with my dad. And something in me made my. Made me make my mom go because my mom wasn't gonna go.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And I was like, no, I think you need to go. You need to go see your mom. And she was like, no. Like, I'll see her in June. Like, I'm going in June. And I was like, no, mom, you need to go now. You know? And this was. I'm getting my months mixed up. She was supposed to go see her in August. Yes. My grandma died in June.

[Tatiana]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So she kept saying, I'm gonna go see her in August. She'll be fine for three months. And this was early June. And I was like, no, mom, you need to go see her now. Like, I know she's not gonna make it.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

My mom ends up going. It was maybe like a week or two after my dad's flight was supposed to leave. The ending of June. And they had called. I'll never forget. It was the same type of phone call. I wasn't home. My dad calls me hyperventilating and he's like, you need to come home. And I'm like, why? I was like, grandma died, didn't she? And he was like, yeah, she did. And I went and like, seeing my mom, you know, my mom had already lost her dad, so, you know, she was already. She had already lost the parents, so she knew. But it was kind of just like an open band aid. Like, like.

[Tatiana]

And it hurts seeing other people you love.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It is. Was like that day. I'm. I'll never forget. I had like went and locked myself in the bathroom and just like broke down. I think it was like all my grief at once. Like, I was like. Like, this is really happening all over again. Like, I can't even catch a break at this point, you know? But that was expected. So it didn't. I fully. I think I fully grieved her.

[Tatiana]

And you had an understanding of.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I had an understanding. Like, I had closure. Like, you know, I knew it. It was coming. I at least got to say bye. You know, Like, I feel good about her passing.

[Tatiana]

Like, you know, there's no confusion there.

[Unnamed Speaker]

There's no confusion there. But with my dad's parents. Oh yeah. There's so much confusion. Like, it's like I. Till this day, I don't want to accept it.

[Tatiana]

You know, it's scary too.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. Cuz now it's like every time we go, like, I'm constantly looking over my shoulder, like, are we a target? Like.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know what I mean? Because they see us as the Americans who have money. It's like, we're not even rich, bro.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

We're middle class. Like, come on.

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, but because we're Americans, they think that we have money and we have this and we have that. Like, no, it's not how it is. So every time we do go and we go to my dad's city, like, I'm always on my P's and Q's because I'm.

[Tatiana]

You have to be. Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I don't trust anybody, like, at all.

[Tatiana]

No, you shouldn't.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

It's a scary world we live.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's crazy. And that's really, like, open minds. Like, at first, you know, I'm a. I'm a people person. Like, I love talking and I used to bartend. So like, I love meeting new people. But after this, I'm like, you can't be like that with everybody. No, you just never know, you know?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, here in America, you'd be like, okay, like, maybe, like, you know, there's bad people. You probably get robbed or something. But not like family doing it to family.

[Tatiana]

No.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know.

[Tatiana]

Right. People you're supposed to trust.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, that is some wicked it.

[Tatiana]

People don't care. They're selfish, clearly.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And greedy.

[Tatiana]

Yes.

[Unnamed Speaker]

That's what I've learned. And I'm just like, it's so crazy. And it's all over. Just. It could. Dry paper.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Thank you. Yeah, it's crazy.

[Tatiana]

It's really crazy to think about.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And it's not even. Like, he couldn't. He couldn't ask for help.

[Tatiana]

Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point, too.

[Unnamed Speaker]

My grandmother was doing his laundry.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, she was cleaning dirty underwear and.

[Tatiana]

Because that's. That's too easy.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Like, people don't wanna.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, instead of asking some. The two people that were like, your only family that were legit helping you do your laundry, they would feed you. My grandma would cook you dinner and have you pick it up. Like, come on.

[Tatiana]

And she already. You said she already didn't.

[Unnamed Speaker]

She did not like him. You know, like, she always had a really bad feeling about him. But, you know, she was like, well, that's my husband's nephew. Like, I can't. I can't. Can't not.

[Tatiana]

They were just good people, you know?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Exactly. But she definitely had her feelings about him. But it's just like, you went. And if he did do that. Okay. Because I can't sit here and say he did. But, you know, obviously, in my theory, he did it. You went and did that to the only two people that were helping you in life.

[Tatiana]

I think greed is spot on.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It took over, you know, and it's just like. It's ridiculous because as I'm looking, I ended up finding, like, my grandfather's checkbooks. He loved writing checks. Okay. He never did cash. He wanted receipts of. Of everything. He was very OCD. He would give Mark, like, $1,000 here, $1,000 there. Just like every few, like, five, six weeks, I guess, to just help him. And it's like, bro, like, they were helping you financially, too. Like, you could have just asked for more if you really needed more, you know? It's so crazy.

[Tatiana]

That's why. Well, you're a great storyteller.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I try.

[Tatiana]

I was like.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, my ADD gets in the way.

[Tatiana]

And I'm like, no, not literally. Not at all. Like, it. It felt like I was, like you said, spot on. Watching a documentary. Like, I'M over here, like, trying to think of theories.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No. It's so crazy. Ah, one thing I forgot.

[Tatiana]

Go ahead.

[Unnamed Speaker]

See, I'm telling you, I like, it's.

[Tatiana]

Like you'll think of, like, little, little.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Things, and I'm like, damn. But they're, like, important one of the day. The first day my siblings, my sisters were there, we. My grandfather, ocd. I'm talking about, like, he would know if, like, my cup was, like, off center, like, too much. In the living room, there was a dresser, and it's like, drawers of, like, folders of papers that go back to, like, the 1970s, of every bill he's paid, newspapers that he, like, liked.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, every single paper that had his or my grandmother's name on it, he kept dated in, like, whatever category it fell in everything. And my grandparents ended up becoming US Citizens when they were here. The only things that I could not find in those paperworks, in the paperwork was the. The layout of the house, like, the estimate. Because my grandfather had apparently got the house, like, est.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Right. Because last time they were here, they had told my dad, like, you know, they told my dad and my uncle, like, you know, the day that we die, you know, everything is ready. Like, the funeral's already paid for. Like, you guys don't have to worry about the house. Like, it's already, like, estimated you don't have to pay for that. Like, like, my grandfather was like, everything's done so that it's ready. So you guys don't have to have that stress.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, all that paperwork, that folder was empty. They're US Citizen, like, certificates. You know how you get, like, a little certificate.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Gone. Okay. Like, little important stuff like that were all gone.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So, like, God knows, like, if they did have a funeral paid because we couldn't find what funeral home they used. Oh, you had to have paperwork. Because no one does, like, in that village. No one does. Technology, it's all by paper. Does that make sense?

[Tatiana]

Yes. That's crazy. And so bizarre. Like, the little things that are just missing it just. Why?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. For what?

[Tatiana]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's so crazy. Yeah.

[Tatiana]

That makes no sense.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And it's like, I know there was a lot of empty folders. And it's like, my grandfather wasn't the type to have, like, an empty folder in the middle of, like, like, 20 folders. There were so many empty folders. I'm like, what could have possibly been in here? And that was important to take.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, and it's like, I'll never know because you weren't going through the people. I was going through them all the time, you know? And it's so funny because thinking about it now, I'm just remembering my mom. I remember when I was leaving, something in me made me take home to come back here. I think I took, like, six folders worth of papers that I just. I mentally could not go through because it was just. I was just too many papers. Okay. Like, it was. It was an issue. Like, talk about hoarder. Right? So I was like, okay, something in me is telling me that there's something important in these papers. So I put them in my backpack. We came back home months later, my mom's going through them. Right. She's better at reading than I am in Portuguese. And she had the paper stacked on the table, and she's, like, in the living room, I guess she went to go, like, get something from the cupboard or whatever. And she said that it felt like it looked like somebody just went on the papers and, like, smacked them to the floor. And in front of her, like, because as she was walking, like, they're all. In front of her was one paper that had the information of saying that Mark was an account holder on one of their bank accounts. And it's the certified copy, like, the full stamped, like, 3D stamped copy. And that's how my dad ended up finding out that he had an account. Like, he was on the accounts.

[Tatiana]

Like, regardless of what happened, in the end, it sounds like he, like, maneuvered his way.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Into their lives. And, you know, you hear about that. A lot of people manipulating older people.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. And, you know, and taking advantage of them.

[Tatiana]

Yeah. Like, even if. Like, doesn't even matter how little or much money they had, I just think that if somebody, you know, doesn't have much for themselves or they are selfish or greedy, and they see somebody that is super kind and generous and vulnerable, they will take advantage of it.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. And that's exactly what I think is what happened. Like, they were just.

[Tatiana]

And eventually it probably just wasn't enough.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. My grandparents were just too nice. Like, I'm not even kidding. They were the type, like, if you were to walk in front of their house and you would say, like, you were hungry. My grandmother would, like, force you in. In and, like, feed you. Like, they just were that kind of people. And I definitely believe they were taken advantage of by him. Like, he probably just got too greedy and knowing that he could get away with something like this because of who he knows in the inside, you know, Like, I. I do firmly believe that it was him. Like, I told my dad all the time, like, you cannot convince me it was not him. Like, I know that's your cousin.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But, like, my gut feeling every time I'm around this man is, like, it's. It's bad.

[Tatiana]

Bad.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Like, it makes me sick. Like, I've never had that kind of gut feeling about anybody, you know?

[Tatiana]

And the whole situation is so. Creepy.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Weird.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's like you stalked us for this long. What, because you were afraid I was gonna find something?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know, when you really think back at it, it's because you're. You probably think I'm gonna find something that's going to connect me to you. That's why. You know, And God knows if he found something while I was busy, like, in the rooms.

[Tatiana]

Right?

[Unnamed Speaker]

You know?

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But it's just, like, when you really look back at it, it's just like. Like, it gives me, like, you know, the show. You. It gives me that kind of vibe. Like, Joe Goldberg. Like, you're definitely, like, looking around to see, like, what won't lead you to you.

[Tatiana]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Type of thing. Crazy.

[Tatiana]

That's wild.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tatiana]

Well, you did a great job. How do you feel? Did you. Do you think you got everything?

[Unnamed Speaker]

I think I got everything.

[Tatiana]

You did really good. You're a really good storyteller.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I try.