A (3:23)

And during this time, it was like no contact with the biological mother.

B (3:27)

So I had, I guess, an open adoption until I was three. And the story goes that one time we were meeting up at the same cafe and I had really taken a liking to my biological mother and I had asked her to come have a sleepover at my house. And she was like, no, I can't. And I was like, well, I'll let you share my toothbrush. And I was like, three. And I guess that that really broke my biological mom's heart. Cause she knew that she couldn't, so she kind of like had to leave. And that was the last time that I saw her up until I was 13 years old. Because after that I think it threatened my adopt adoptive mother. Granted, this is speculation because I don't remember, but they decided, my adoptive parents decided, that's it. We're not entertaining the open adoption thing anymore. They did send my biological family, like pictures and videos of me, to my knowledge, up until, I don't know, like mid childhood, I guess. But they did not let me see her at all until I was 13. And I did remember my biological mom because when all this was going on, like after bath times and my adoptive mom was doing that to me, I remember like, dissociating and thinking about being like, in my biological mother's arms. Like I knew who she was. I don't remember a time that I didn't know that I was adopted. And I remember, like, largely in my childhood, I would always kind of fantasize about scenarios where they would come rescue me or they would, you know, I'd end up with them somehow, some way, and what life would be like with my biological family. So that was, that was a huge thing that got me through.

A (5:31)

And one quick question. When you say digitally rape you, she was filming it, Is that what she meant?

B (5:37)

No. Explain it with her fingers. So like digital.

A (5:40)

Like, I've never heard it described as that. Yeah, okay, got it.

B (5:45)

So that's. Yeah. So she would go like, inside me with her fingers, like, totally.

A (5:51)

Yeah. And she. Beyond with the diaper rash cream.

B (5:54)

Yes, with the diaper rash cream. And she would reapply it to the point where I would have orgasms. So it was very, very traumatic.

A (6:06)

Absolutely.

B (6:07)

But, yeah, so that happened. And also I remember my, my Adoptive parents, they, from very early on, kind of acted like I was the bad guy. And looking back, I think it was just to, like, discredit me from everybody, because if I'm crazy, then I'm not believable, right? So from very early on, I was, like, the problem child that, like, they just couldn't handle. And poor adoptive parents, you know, we don't know what to do. And I remember times that, you know, I'd get in trouble for something really stupid and little. You know, I have kids now. It's something that would be like, don't do that, and that's that. But they would, you know, I would, like, refuse to pick up my toys, for instance, and they would lock me in my bedroom for. They have admitted to me up to four hours when I was five years old. But I can imagine that it was a lot longer than that. It felt like a lot longer than that. When I've talked to my adoptive dad in my adulthood about what I remember, he kind of, like, made it seem very nonchalant, like. Like, they had to do that to me. And he. He told me that they'd put me in the room and I would scream like my arms were being chopped off for hours up until I would just suddenly stop screaming. And he said that it was like I had amnesia. Like, I just forgot what I was in there for at that point. So between being, I guess, like, neglected in that way because they. They would put me in the room, and I remember them holding the door shut because I would, you know, try to fight and get out of there at first, because I knew I was going to be in there for a minute. But then I also remember, like, hearing the doorknob click and hearing them walk away. And then I'd kind of, like, quietly, like, open the door and see if they were still there. And if they weren't, then I could, like, I was free to, like, go use the bathroom that was next door to my room or, you know, whatever. Just as long as they didn't know that I was leaving that room, because luckily there was no, like, lock on it. But they, you know, would definitely drag me back in there if they realized that I had left the room. And so I grew up largely just wishing for my biological family. Like, that's what I remember the most of, is just, like, get me the hell out of here, you know? And when I was a younger child, I also, naturally, because of what was happening to me, had a lot of, like, deviant sexual behaviors. I remember when I was about seven Years old. I had a friend who was in the same grade as me, so we were in the second grade. But I think that this was like the summer. It was either. No, it was the summer after first grade, so we were almost in second grade. And I would go over to her house and she, I remember she would go to her mom's room and get her mom's, like, adult sex toy magazines and we would like, hike up our underwear to look like thongs and like, kiss each other and touch each other. And that was kind of something that she started. Honestly, like, I, I, that wasn't something that I started. I had started things with like, other boys around my age by that time, but never with, with a girl like that. And I remember one time we were talking and I told her about how, like, I wanted to have like, actual sex, and she was like, well, I bet that like, my brother would agree to it. And he was like five years older than me to the day, so he was 12 and I was 7. And I don'. Remember, I feel like I was too chicken to go ask him myself. So I don't remember if she went to go ask him or what. The next thing that I remember is that we did end up having sex multiple times when I was about seven years old, which to like, until recently, I totally thought was consensual because it was my idea. Right. Like, I thought that that was my choice to make. Like, I knew it wasn't normal and that it was bad and that, you know, if we got caught, which I ended up getting caught, that I was going to get in trouble. But I didn't realize that that was like child on child sexual abuse. I didn't realize that, like, I couldn't really consent at that age.

A (11:05)

And they had to have had something going on.

B (11:08)

Yeah.

A (11:08)

In their family, because that's, I just feel like typically that's just not.

B (11:13)

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

A (11:15)

You know, I feel like those just aren't the thoughts that children should be having at that age.

B (11:21)

Absolutely not. I mean, you know, kids definitely, I guess, like, explore their bodies naturally and might, you know, try to explore with another friend or something.

A (11:33)

Or the curiosity.

B (11:34)

Yeah. But like, to that degree at that age too, to where you're not like three or four and just kind of like, oh, what's this? You know, like, and even to have

A (11:45)

the thought of like, oh, my brother will do it. It just like, that's.

B (11:48)

Yeah, exactly. So I don't know.

A (11:53)

So how long did that go on for?

B (11:55)

It wasn't that long. I think it Just lasted during that summer. Because I do remember fairly vividly my adoptive mother coming to their house. And she was crying. She's a big crier, but she's crying and freaking out. And I remember her wanting to call my dad from work, and she was kind of getting into it with their mom. It was their mom who. Who caught us because it would be up in the upstairs playroom on the floor. And I feel like she had, like, almost caught us before, too, because I remember we'd have a blanket over us, and he had a TV with, like, some sort of gaming system. And I remember, like, my job was to be, like, the scout. So the door had to stay open to the playroom, but right across the hall from this playroom door was the stairs leading up from the downstairs. So my job essentially was to kind of listen out for footsteps to see if anybody was approaching and if it was. And we would, like, throw the blanket kind of on top of us and, like, get off of each other. And then, like, kind of pretend that we were, like, playing a video game, watching TV or something. And so I remember. I feel like at least one time she came in and was, like, probably telling us that it was dinner time or something like that. And I just remember being under the blanket and thinking, like, can she see my pants around my ankles right now? Like, is that showing? I can't tell. And I was just, like, frozen. I was terrified. But, yeah, I. I remember when we would have sex, it did hurt, like, because he was, like, bigger than my anatomy. And sometimes he would, like, go too far in, and so we'd have to be, like, in almost, like a. Like a side lying position, like, make it work. And I remember when he would finish, I'd have to, like, like, stay, like, connected to him because I would. We were afraid of, like, a mess, you know? So I would like to, like, stay connected to him and, like, reach around for something that was on the floor for, like, him to kind of wipe up with. And he would direct me. No, you know, don't. Don't get that. Reach for that or whatever. And then I remember when he was done and he's cleaned himself up, that I would run down the hallway. So they're. The playroom had the hallway, and then, like, to the right, I guess there was. It was a laundry room, but it had, like, a weird little bathroom in it to where the toilet was, like, in an enclosed, like, had a door area, but the sink was out where the washer and dryer were. And I remember, like, this is Just how, like, little I was. I remember thinking that I needed to, like, wet the toilet paper to wash myself off with, because, like, in restaurants and things, like, if I got something on my face, my mom would always, like, dip the napkin in her glass of water or whatever and, like, wipe it off. And so that I thought that that's what I was supposed to do. And I remember being so afraid that for. When they'd catch me wetting this toilet paper in the sink out there, and for two, like, it would just, like, fall apart. It would just crumble, and I would just be, like, terrified that, like, they would see these pieces or that, you know, I wasn't getting it all or whatever.

A (15:31)

And was he. And feel free not to answer any questions I ask as well. Was he finishing inside of you? Yeah, I just like Campbell and at that age, it's just.

B (15:44)

Yeah.

A (15:44)

And for him to even, like, it's. It's very interesting to me, like, how he knew what to do. You know what I mean? Like, even the positions and stuff, it just. You don't. It's crazy to me that he. That that was a thought at such a young age.

B (16:00)

Yeah. I do remember it being somewhat directed by me. Like, I remember at first we were trying more of like. Like a missionary type position, but it would hurt because he would go in too far. And I remember it would be like. Like a lightning bolt, like, shooting pain, like, in my cervix, it hurt really bad. And so. But I thought. Because in my mind, this was so much more consensual than my experiences with my adoptive mother, so.

A (16:33)

Well, and I think too, you know, when. And this has been talked about multiple times on the show, but when you're brought up with such sexual experiences, I think it can go of two. I mean, it can go of multiple ways, but I think either people are, like, completely closed off to it, or it kind of encourages you to be more hypersexual. These acts become more normal. Like, they're not really looked at as, like. Even though I feel like you were scared of getting in trouble, I just feel like at the same time, it was. It wasn't as like, oh, this is so wrong at this age. You know, I mean, because this has been happening to you from someone you're supposed to trust since you can remember.

B (17:15)

Yeah. I mean, I knew it was wrong because I had gotten caught, like, in my closet with boys who were, like, in my kindergarten or, like, Sunday school or whatever when they come over to my house. And I remember, like, my dad catching me specifically Once. And this was like, you know, kindergarten age.

A (17:34)

And did anything ever happened with your dad and you? They adopted you?

B (17:38)

No. Okay. No, he was never involved to my knowledge. Really. The, like, the only time that I remember him ever being like, involved in any way is one time when my mom was raping me. So she. She would lay down a towel between the toilet and the side of like the sink that was in the bathroom, and I would lay in between there and she would kind of sit like opposite of the toilet in front of me. And I remember one time I kicked her like, pretty hard and she was like, don't kick me again or I'm going to get your dad to like, discipline you. And I kicked her again and I was like, fuck you, basically. And I remember her getting up, going to go get my dad. I remember hearing her kind of tell him that I was kicking her, whatever. And I just remember just being frozen in that moment, laying down, like, and I was completely naked too. And. And he came in and he saw me laying there like that. And to me as an adult now, thinking back like, that is a huge red flag, you know, like, how did he not know that that was happening to me? Because of how that must have looked. But he came in and he told me to apologize to her and I said no. And he picked up my naked body and he put me in my room and that was that. So he. He's very much somebody who I think likes to play ignorant because if he doesn't know, then he can't be, you know, found at fault or whatever. We lived in like a two story house, and so my bedroom and bathroom where this was happening was on the upstairs level. And he would largely be downstairs, like on the family computer or something. So he was, he was never around doing this. It was always my mom, but. But yeah, I always knew that it was something, I guess, to be hidden, like, even when she was doing that to me. And maybe it was because I was afraid of getting like, in trouble like that, but I just remember feeling so like. Like I just needed to be quiet and just trying to be as quiet as I could. And so I really don't know whether, you know, how much he really knew or not. But going back to what you were saying about how, you know, it can either kind of shut you down to this or it can like really make you hypersexual. I personally believe, like, for me anyways, that it made me super hypersexual just because of the nature of it, because she was inducing orgasms with me. So like, I remember during nap time at preschool, so I must have been three years old because when I went to preschool, went to preschool when I was three, pre K when I was four. So I must have been three when this was happening. And they had nap time during preschool. And I remember trying to be so quiet and like, touch myself and like try to like, put my fingers inside of me. And I remember feeling frustrated that I couldn't replicate that sensation. Like I couldn't get like far enough up in me or like the right angle or whatever. And I remember I would do this like every nap time too, that I would masturbate quietly and to the point where, like, I don't even know how they didn't know. Maybe they did know because I remember times, multiple times that the teachers would bring my cot over next to where they sat at their table because I was being too loud. But of course nothing was ever done or said. So I don't really know. I do remember one time that I wet myself on the mat and I didn't think that. So, like, when my mother was abusing me, I would frequently urinate and it would always like kind of like seep into the towel. Like it wouldn't go everywhere, but these mats were like waterproof, so got all over my clothes. It was the most embarrassing thing because I had to get up and go to my little cubby and get my change of clothes and like, I was fully potty trained and very like OCD already at this point. So it was like the walk of shame to like go like, get these clothes and then like go to the bathroom and change into my new clothes because of what I was doing. So looking back is just so crazy to me that nobody really stepped up and did anything for me because it seems so obvious, like glaringly obvious, kind of fast forwarding a little bit into my story. But it kind of marries in with the whole somebody should have known thing. I remember when I was in fourth grade and I was 10 years old, we used to sit in groups of four at our tables and there was this kid and his name was Ryan. I don't remember his last name, but. And I, I've tried to, like, think of who it actually was so I could, like, reach out and apologize to this guy because, like, it must have traumatized him. So, like, Ryan, if you're watching this, I'm so so. But I devised a little plan that we were going to go into the girl's bathroom in our elementary school and we were going to have sex in the in the elementary school bathroom. And it was finally time to, like, execute this plan. And so I went in there first and went in the big stall, and then he left, and he followed me in there, and he was, like, attempting to kind of, like, take off his pants, and he was really nervous about it. And I was just trying to, like, basically egg him on and just be like, no, you know, we got to do this, you know? And that's when this girl walked in to the bathroom, and it scared the crap out of him. And he went running out of that bathroom stall. And I just remember sitting there, kind of like the king prawn meme, just like, what's happening? What's going on? Because he ran out, and then the other girl, she ran out behind. And I knew that they were going to go get teachers, which they did. And so everybody knew that I was doing that. And I remember, like, visiting the school counselor after that a couple times. But my dad, he worked for the school district, and I think that that's why nothing ever panned out, because he. He worked for their print shop. And so he was somebody that, like, everybody knew and everybody worked with. So I remember them coming to the school and picking me up, But I was never suspended and never really like, there was never CPS involvement. There was never, you know, the cops, nothing. It was just like, you gotta come get your kid for the day. And then I had a very awkward conversation with them at home because they sat me down. They were like, you know, why are you doing this, basically? And at that time, I had no good explanation for why I was doing it. So I came up with the excuse of, well, I want to be like my biological mom and I want to have a baby. And in my head, like, that was, like, a logical explanation to tell these folks to, like, why this would make sense. And that's really when that started. Because once I started kind of like, having to tell my parents this, and then they also had me seeing, like, psychologists and stuff, because they. They actually went and doctor shopped until they found a psychologist that would diagnose me with bipolar disorder, which I do not have. But I was, like, 8 when they diagnosed me with bipolar disorder to excuse my sexual behaviors and my aggressive tendencies, I guess.

A (25:43)

And it makes me wonder if your adopted mother was scared or worried that you would end up telling a therapist or a psychologist about what was happening.

B (25:54)

Yeah, well, according to my adoptive dad, because I don't remember anything that I told these folks, okay? But he tells me that I would go in and have These sessions with these psychologists and they'd come out and talk to them afterwards and be like, oh, we're making such huge progress. This is what she told us. And that he would tell them, oh, she's lying. That's tall tales. That, that's, that's a complete lie. And they would believe them. So I don't know what I was saying.

A (26:25)

Right. So they, it was, it was, it goes back to what you said in the beginning of, they just wanted you

B (26:29)

to look like crazy, which they did a really good job of because my, I mean, they destroyed my mental health very early on. So I did look pretty crazy, you know, to the public, I guess.

A (26:43)

And, you know, it's like, at this point, obviously this was long ago, but at this point in society, in the world, you would hope that even if someone is well respected or works with you and you think they're the best person or whatever it might be, if these signs are coming up and happening, it's better to be wrong and look into it than ignore it and brush it under the rug. And because even going back to the brother and sister that you were hanging out with, like, in my opinion, I think there might have been something happening there and best case scenario, it's not. And they're just curious. But I think that as an adult, if you see these red flags, check it out.

B (27:30)

Oh, yeah.

A (27:31)

He's a voice for the child that doesn't know any better.

B (27:33)

Yeah. Because they're obviously not going to do it for themselves because they're terrified of getting caught.

A (27:37)

Right.

B (27:38)

Because they knew that it's, you know, you're going to get in trouble. Especially if they've gotten caught before. Yeah.

A (27:42)

Or if they are telling, and they're just being told that they're, you know, people are saying that they're liars. It's not going to get anywhere.

B (27:48)

Exactly, exactly. So, so yeah, they, that was, that was something that really kind of quickly became a thing in my life of, oh, I'm gonna get pregnant. Like, that. I told it so many times to, like these psychologists and to my parents that, like, I kind of believed it almost myself that, like, this is why I'm doing this. And so from, I mean, from that point, you know, when I was 10, up until I got pregnant with my daughter, my oldest daughter, when I was just turned 17, I had your biological mom.

A (28:28)

Right.

B (28:28)

Sorry.

A (28:29)

That's the same as your biological mom.

B (28:31)

Right. Yeah.

A (28:31)

Okay.

B (28:32)

So that's when I had my oldest daughter. This is when I was 17 years old. But I, I was just Hoeing it out, you know, that was, it was to the point where like my adoptive parents knew about it. They would put like, like the Norton security stuff, like on the home computer and they had like a motion camera that would sense when I left at night. But they do anything about it. Like they might like lock me out of my account on the computer. But I remember specifically leaving in the middle of the night, seeing this camera and being like. And leaving. And then I'd never hear anything about it because I knew that they wouldn't.

A (29:13)

Yeah.

B (29:13)

Follow up on something so brazen, I don't think.

A (29:17)

And at what age did she stop abusing you?

B (29:21)

Largely when I was about, I want to say around six or seven, because my. So her father, my grandfather, got dementia and he was moving from assisted living places to eventually he moved in with my aunt, so my adoptive mom's sister. And then she would travel to go help her take care of him. So then she was gone for a long period of time. And I, I think that gave my body a chance to heal. So then these UTIs were no longer like a thing.

A (29:55)

Okay.

B (29:55)

So that's kind of when that stopped. But the very last time that she touched me, honestly, was when I was 17 because she, she was. I don't think she worked in labor and delivery at that moment, but she used to work in labor and delivery as a nurse because she was a registered nurse. And she. We lived like 30 minute drive away from the hospital, but like with traffic it might have been a little bit more. And we kept going because I would have Braxton Hicks and just, you know, false contractions and stuff. So it would keep going and they'd keep sending me home. So for like the last month, I was just kind of like almost in continual pre labor. And before my daughter was born, fairly close to right before she was born, she decided to, to check me for dilation to see if they would admit me to the hospital or not. And like that, like to me seemed, I guess, warranted or normal or maybe even like a, like a plus. Like, hey, my mom's trained to do this, you know, it's fine. It's fine for her to touch my vagina. No big deal. But that's the last time. I mean, granted it didn't go really any further than that, but looking back, like, that's really inappropriate. And I think that that's why my daughter almost died at birth because I quickly developed a choreo infection in my uterus. And so she came out all gray, very low abgar Scores, you know, not moving or anything like that. She had to stay in the NICU for a minute to make sure that she didn't get the infection, which thank God she didn't. But kind of thinking back in my head, like, she probably introduced that infection because she. I don't think she was wearing gloves. She definitely. It wasn't like a hygienic, you know, thing. It was on her bed. So. But that's the very last time that she had ever touched me in that way. So. So that went on until, like, the. The actual, like, raping, until orgasm type thing happened until I was probably like 6 or 7 ish. I remember it getting, like, more sadistic as time went on because looking back too, like, this was not for her sexual gratification. She never had me touch her to, like, my recollection. It was about power and control is about, like, sadism. Like, she just wanted me to suffer. She wanted to be in control of my body because I guess maybe because I was so out of control, like in public or whatever, because I would freak out. I had very high anxiety and a very strong will. And so it was very much about power and control. And I. I remember it getting, like, progressively worse, especially when I was around like 5 or 6, because she would just, like. She would go like, super slow. And this, like, still kind of fucks with me to this day because she would go so slow that, like, I basically, like, was trying to like, direct her or, like, telling her to, like, keep doing it or whatever, to like, make it, you know, and. And she would. I remember there were times that she wouldn't stop when I had an orgasm and she would keep continue going. And I remember when this would happen. Like, I can still feel in the top of my head where my head would hit the baseboard that was on the wall behind me because I would just almost do like, a bridge and just like, try like, get away from her. And obviously, you know, she kind of had me pinned, so that didn't really work out too well. I remember, like, trying like, alligator roll kind of out of it, but that happened. And then I kind of almost took it from there. Once my grandfather got dementia and she stopped doing that, then I started seeking it out on my own. It got to the point where, I guess out of desperation, when I was around 13 years old, they got in contact with my biological mother and was like, come help this kid. Because that's all I wanted. I mean, I was so adamant about, like, wanting any, like, inkling of information about her or Any, like, pictures, anything. And of course, by this time, you know, it was the whole I'm going to get pregnant thing and be just like her. So they, I guess, wanted her to come in and give me some sort of intervention, but they were not fully honest with her about what was going on with me, because what ended up happening is she was completely blindsided. I remember the first time that, like, I remember When I was 13, I asked to go on a walk with her around my neighborhood, and I told her that I thought I might be pregnant. I knew I wasn't pregnant. I definitely was testing the waters to see if she would do anything, if she would step in, if she would protect me, if she would run away. And fortunately, the latter is basically what happened, because. And I don't really blame her because she, at the time her husband was deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, I think Iraq. And she had three young kids under the age of five herself that she was essentially a single parent to. And then, you know, my adoptive parents basically kind of invite her in and not tell her the full extent of what's going on with me. And so when she realizes that, like, I'm as messed up as I am, she, like. I remember once I told her that, she started screaming at me. She's like, you're only 13. You're only 13. What are you doing? And we went back to my house, and she locked herself, or I guess my adoptive mom locked herself and my biological mom, like, in her bedroom. And I wasn't in there with them, but I could hear on the opposite side of the door. And my adopted mom was, like, crying. And I guess she told her about the incident that happened when I was 10, in the fourth grade. And basically after that, like, my biological mother really kind of kept me at a distance because she. Whatever was said in that room had convinced my biological mother that I was a danger to her kids, basically, that I was crazy and out there and just doing Lord knows what, which, I mean, to an extent I was, but really kind of ruined our ability to have a good relationship. But that really messed with me in that moment, because that was my escape plan, basically. Like, that was something that I had dreamed about the day happening and just, you know, like, I would have done anything to go with her, but that it was clear that that was not happening. And shortly after that, they brought my biological dad into my life, and he. He and his family were a lot more accepting. His mother in particular. Like, I. I named my oldest daughter after her. And unfortunately, I only got to know her for before she passed away from liver cirrhosis. But she was really the only one in the family that tried to like, you know, not have me adopted. Like, she, she didn't really have, I guess, a lot of like courage to stand up to my maternal grandmother. Because my maternal grandmother is very much like a bulldog personality. Like she's going to get what she wants. So she didn't really have a say. And she was married to my grandfather who was an alcoholic, so they weren't really like in the best spot to have me. But she, when I met her when I was 14, you know, basically accepted me with open arms and stuff like that. And I was thinking, oh, finally, you know, like, finally I have somebody who gives a about me. And I think looking back, my adoptive parents certainly did not know what to do with me. I think they wanted to pawn me off on my biological family. Like I remember being allowed to call my real dad dad. And my biological family, like really wanted to make sure that that was okay with my adoptive family because like, you know, in any like logical circumstance that would be offensive. But they were like, no, we don't care, we don't care. Go on.

A (38:43)

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B (40:46)

And. But eventually, I think came to a point, I don't. I don't remember a whole lot surrounding this or, like, why they decided that this was going to happen, but I assume it's. They figured that my biological family was not going to take me in. And that's when they decided, when I was 14, that they were going to send me to a place called Heartlight Ministries in Texas. And I don't know if you've ever seen or heard of the movie Holes or the book Holes. It's like that. It's exactly like that. Where you are wearing an orange prison jumpsuit outside in Texas working hours. If you said the word hell, that's four hours you had to work outside. Like, if you cussed, if you tried to do something more serious, like run away or try to commit suicide or something, they would take away all your belongings, everything, and make you wear an orange prison jumpsuit. And from morning to night, with only breaks to, like, eat, basically, you'd be working outside. So. And I got in trouble a lot. So I was working outside a lot. But that largely did a lot more damage than good because I was there for a year. So from September 2010 to September 2011, I was there for. And in that situation, I mean, I was. I remember being, like, horribly bullied through it. And granted, everybody's there for, like, pretty serious issues. The reason that I was there, I guess, is because, like, at the time, my understanding was because I argued a lot with my mother, and that's why I went. But I, like, I wasn't doing drugs then. You know, I might have been trying to, like, sneak off and have sex, but that was about, like, the worst of what I was doing. You know, I wasn't, like, disappearing for days on end or, you know, going to even, like, parties or anything. I was a loner. For the most part, they had me pretty secluded for the most part, so I didn't have a lot of friends. So when they. When they sent me to this place, I was just like, I don't really know what to do with that many people around. And I definitely kind of got picked out and picked on because I was definitely very socially awkward. But I also learned a lot of, like, bad habits there, too. Like, I remember when I left there, like, that's when I started smoking weed, which, like, as an adult now, it's like, I don't care. But, like, when you're 15 and your brain is still developing, that's definitely not something that you should be doing. And I remember my adoptive parents, like, they. They always cared more about what people thought of them, like, on the outside and how things looked, but at home, it was a different story. So, like, to anybody else, like, no, she's not allowed to smoke weed. But I remember clearly, like, before going to high school in the morning, my dad would usually take me to school because he. It was on his way to work, and I'd be outside lighting up a bowl and be like, hi. And he would just roll his eyes and continue on. And I think that that was kind of their thing of, you know, this kid's out of control, and we're just not going to even try anymore because they dug grave with me up until that point that, like, I. I don't remember a time where I didn't hate my adoptive mom, specifically, like, actively hate her. I've always just not liked her. And my adoptive dad, God bless him, has no balls. He does everything that she wants. There was one time when I was an adult that I even asked him, like, if. If there was, like, solid, factual proof that I was not lying and that she's lying and that she's in the wrong, would you believe me? And he told me straight up, nope, I'd Believe your mom 100%. I'd back her. I said, even if there's evidence that she's the liar? Yep, even if she's the liar, I will believe her and back her up. And so it was always me against them, and I had nobody on my team at all. So, yeah, that's kind of. That's. That's how I grew up was just kind of. Just a very crazy mix of them being very controlling about really mundane things. But then to the outside world, I was the controlling one because I guess they'd, like, when I was little, anyways, really be punitive and really, you know, they'd put me. Lock me in these rooms for hours and, you know, do these things. They. I remember them, like, breaking my toys and things, you know, out of anger. But then we'd go in public, and they just kind of, like, let the light, the reins loose.

A (45:45)

Yeah.

B (45:46)

And I, of course, because I'm bullheaded as all crap, you know, would take advantage of that, not realizing how it looked to everybody else on the outside and how I was really digging my grave of being not believable or looking crazy, so.

A (46:03)

And then as you got older, did you ever. Because I know that you said that you've asked your adoptive dad questions. Have you ever confronted her? As time has gone on, kind of.

B (46:16)

So I did call her once. I FaceTimed her so I could kind of see her reactions. And you have to be so careful when talking with them, because especially with my adoptive mom, any little thing that makes it seem like I'm pointing finger at her, she will shut down the conversation. She'll start crying, she will shut it down. She'll stop engaging. So I have to be really almost manipulative. Like, I hate that word. But, like, in order to get any sort of conversation with her, I had to be really careful and walk on eggshells with my words. And so I remember calling her and being like, so I just had a few questions about my childhood because I'm in therapy now. They had some questions that I don't really know the answers to, but I would assume that you do because you're the one who always talked to the doctor and stuff, which is true. And I told her, I was like, well, my question is that they had me diagnosed with. When I was 8 years old with bipolar disorder. But I don't have bipolar disorder, and it was unethical for them to do so in the first place because you can't be diagnosed with that until you're 18. But now that I'm an adult and I've had, you know, different psychological evaluations, I've been to therapists and stuff, it's pretty. It's been a resounding answer since I was 18. And on that, I do not have bipolar disorder. So I told her, well, I don't have this. And we know this. We've known this for a while. But I remember being diagnosed with this because it basically excused my sexual behaviors when I was a child. And so I told her, I'm like, did you ever think that, like, I was being abused? And she just completely denied everything. She was like, that was never. That was never A consideration. And. And I told her, yeah, but, like, wouldn't you. Like, I feel like you would have known something, you know, because, like, I remember, like. Like being irritated with the utis and the desitin. Like, I brought that up. And, like, you could see on her face, she was like. She was. She was really freaking out that I was bringing that up. And she's like, well, you would remember, you know, if you were, you know, five years old or whatever, because I was bringing up that. That age range. You would remember, you know, who did this to you? And I told her I do. And she just sat there in silence for, like, 20 seconds and then was like, but we never knew. We know, you know, you know, us, that we. That if we knew anything, that we would have gotten you help. So you believe that we didn't know. Right. And I was like, well, what does it matter, like, if I believe that you knew or not? Like, we're sitting here talking in code. You know more than I about what you did to me. You know, like, I was 3, 4, 5, 6 years old, so my memory's pretty shoddy. Yeah, but you were a grown adult. She was 35 when she adopted me, so she was in her 40s when this was going on. And so she remembers. And so I told her. I'm like, well, you know, what does it matter? You know, you're not. You're just going to deny anyways. And then she just told me, well, I think we're done with this conversation. And I told her, well, you know, I agree it's probably the end of the conversation, but it's probably a conversation that we need to revisit with dad sometime in the future. And she really freaked out. I asked her if she was willing to go to family therapy with me, and she denied. She said, no, I don't. Especially when I told her about, like, the statute of limitation laws, like, for mandated reporting and things, because she. Once I kind of told her about that, she was like, well, what do you mean? What do you mean? That, you know, they could report something. And I was like, well, just generally speaking, abuse, neglect, sexual abuse, you know, abandonment, like, all these things, they're reportable. So, you know, I'd rather. Because the laws are different.

A (50:33)

Yeah.

B (50:34)

Depending on what state you're in. So I was like, we should do it in your state because your state is a lot more protective, like, for perpetrators, I guess, in that way, because I'm an adult now, so they. They don't need to report now that I'm an Adult unless I choose to. But even still, she was like, nope, we're not doing family therapy. And then, so, like, I haven't talked to her. That was like, one of the last times that I've talked to her. This last summer, I went back to Washington state to visit. It was the first time in years that I've been back.

A (51:10)

And this was to visit both of them.

B (51:12)

No. Oh, no. This was my dad. My. My adult, not my adoptive dad. Apologize. My biological dad was getting married.

A (51:20)

Okay.

B (51:21)

And so. But he ironically lives out here on the east coast, but he, like all of our family and stuff is from Washington. So he went back with his wife to get married in Washington state. And so I went back with him, you know, to attend. And of course, I let my adoptive parents know that, you know, I was coming back, especially because I was hoping they. They're financially well off. So, like, I knew that they had a condo that they weren't using, you know, to see if, like, I could get out of paying for a hotel, basically. And they did, you know. Well, my adoptive dad, I. I think he's very. I think he feels guilty in a way, but can't really, like, voice it because that's kind of the vibe that I got from him of like, yeah, we' this for you. But it was very much me talking to only him and not her. And he kept bugging me, like, even when I was there, before I was there, once I was there, he's like, well, your mom really wants to see the girls, my daughters. And I was like, no, like, I. I can't. It's not. Has nothing to do with, like, being punitive towards her or, you know, trying to, like, take something out on her, like, like, my mental health. I cannot take it. I cannot take it. I will flip. I'll freak out.

A (52:33)

Has she ever met them?

B (52:34)

She has. So I. I only moved to. To the east coast about four years ago, and that's a whole nother story. I was very much dependent on them for a lot of my adult adulthood. Almost kind of like that learn helplessness type of thing they really took advantage of. Because when I got pregnant with my daughter at 17, it was by a man that I didn't know it literally the first time I met when I got pregnant with my oldest daughter. And turns out that he's wildly abusive. Wildly abusive. I mean, this man has. He was charged with, like, kidnapping, assault, and robbery. And he pleaded the robbery against me. He almost killed me. And our daughter, who was 11 months old at the time, was in the car. He took me out in the middle of the woods, threatened to beat me and leave me for dead out there. And that's. That's a whole. That's a whole tangent that I could go on, too, because that's really what brought me to God, honestly, because I. I was raised Catholic, so, like, I knew about God, but I wasn't, like, Bible thumper type, you know, I was just like, meh. But when he was, like, driving us in that car towards the woods, and he was like. He had me by my hair, and he was, like, beating me into, like, the side of the window and the dash and all that, and he was just driving so radically, he was blasting through red lights. And I was praying to God. I was like, God, help me. God help me. And he told me, he's like, God's not gonna save you. And I remember clear as day, like, audibly, in my ear, I heard a voice that just said, be still. And so I was like, that's the voice of God. I'm not gonna, like, mess with that. So I'm gonna be still, you know?

A (54:20)

Yeah.

B (54:20)

And I didn't even know that that was in the Bible at that time. And Interestingly enough, Exodus 14, verse 14 says some. I'm so horrible at, like, recounting Bible verses, but it says something about, like, the Lord will fight for you. You need only be still. Had no clue that was in the Bible. But this happened in 2014, which kind of, like, really makes it even more interesting because it's Exodus 14, verse 14. And even the meaning of Exodus is, like, leaving and, like, fleeing oppression. And so that. That was really a turning point moment for me. But even, like, after that, like, my adoptive parents, like, always took a side. Always took a side. They would protect him over me every time because I was a crazy one. Right? Like, so. And I had a really bad pattern of getting into really abusive relationships. I was on and off with him for years. I got into a couple more abusive relationships. The last one ended up being the reason why I had to flee. And ironically. So this is my youngest daughter's dad, and we. We were living together through. Through Covid. And this was in, like, 2021. So it was, like, right after Covid, and we got into an argument, and basically I got kicked out because if I were to return, it was basically like, he wasn't leaving. So I just have to, like, go back to be a relationship with him and accept what was happening. Like, this man, like, he literally, like, broke my finger in half at one point. In time. So, like, I was done at that. At that point. And we were living in a lake house that was owned by my adoptive parents. So they had every right to evict him, Every right. And they wouldn't because they were afraid of him. They didn't want to rock the boat. And I said, well, can I stay with you guys, or can I stay at your condo? And they told me no, because you and your mom are just going to fight. So I was looking at either having to return to this guy that I didn't want to or live under a bridge. And I was really depressed, obviously, during this time. And it was around my birthday, so my biological mom reached out to me just to be like, hey, happy birthday. And I ended up just, like, kind of trauma dumping on her what was going on. She lives out here. And so that's how I ended up out here is like, she kind of heard what was going on, and she told me that I could only take my oldest daughter with. At first, she was only prepared to take her, but she told me that I could come out here and get a college education and get a job and get on my feet and then reunite. And that's really not what happened at all. So I hate that I'm like, keep flip flopping back and forth. But when I was in a relationship with my oldest daughter's dad, we had three kids together. So I have my oldest daughter, I had two sons with him, and then my youngest daughter's with somebody else. So my sons never knew their dad really, because I had them here to day apart. They both have extremely high special needs. They both are autistic, like, profoundly autistic. And the day that my youngest was born, their dad flipped out at the hospital to the point where, like, CPS was called because of how erratic he was acting. And so, long story short, they, you know, had me go into a shelter because when they. When they told me to go pick up my other two kids from his neighbor, they weren't gonna release my son from the hospital to me until, you know, I went and did that. We were all safe. He came up and, you know, tried to lock us in. It was me and my adoptive dad. And this is when my adoptive dad finally was like, oh, this man's crazy. Like, didn't believe me before, no matter how many crazy things have happened. But we had all we had put the kids in the car already. And he drove up and tried to almost kind of, like, park behind us. And he got out, and he's like, I just Want to say goodbye to my kids. And I told my dad, I'm like, don't unlock the door. Don't unlock the door. Like, I told him this before. He, like, I saw him, you know, pulling up in the driveway. I'm like, lock the door. Don't. Don't unlock it for him. So I just want to say goodbye to my kids. And so my adopted dad, of course, unlocks the door and my ex starts ripping the kids out of the car. My three year old, my one year old, ripping them out of the car, literally throwing them into his car. And my adoptive dad, like, was like, what the hell are you doing? And I remember my ex like, like kind of bucking up and like he was gonna punch him and just like, you better lay off. And so I called the cops and my adoptive dad called the social worker lady from the hospital because she was like, if anything goes down, call us. And we're like, someone down. So that ended up being like a situation where my daughter, at three years old was like being held hostage by her dad in a police situation where they were trying to get her away from him. And they had to have. It was one of the worst days of my life because they had to. They made me leave because they thought that our presence was agitating the situation. I just remember her screaming for me and I had to drive off. So eventually they got the kids. They gave my son to me at, you know, the hospital, but they told me I couldn't go home because they had followed him, my ex, to my apartment, which was in the next county over, which broke his probation at the time. I don't understand why he was never arrested for this because it like they had to do a rolling slowdown in front of him to let CPS get away with my kids. Like, man was going nutso. But he was never arrested, so we had to flee to the nearest shelter that would have room for all of us, which was across the mountain range, like a six hour drive from where we lived, where I knew nobody. And we had to get a restraining order against him so he didn't have anything to do with them. Once I had kind of gotten out of that situation and settled back and got in a relationship with my youngest daughter's dad, he was like the only dad that they knew at that point. And so it was an agreement between my biological mom, he agreed to it. We were even working with like voluntary services with like, it was like a division of like DCYF or cps, but it was like voluntary services. So that we could get help because of their profound needs, because there we lived in a very rural county where there was like really no resources that I could get for them. So that's what I was doing is trying to work with them to like get these resources, especially since we had like a history with them, like, and they kind of knew what was going on because of after, you know, that happened with their dad. But anyway, so everybody was in agreement that I come out here, I'd get a job, you know, and then I'd come back more financially stable with an education and be able to take all of them. Well within like literally two weeks of me being out here. He decided to call CPS and tell them that I abandoned my kids. And so he tried to get all three into a dependency, but because he's the father, my youngest, they were like, we're not gonna do that. Like you can take care of them. Because what he was telling them is like, oh, well, I'll still take care of them, but I just want the money from taking care of them. And I'm thinking like, you're living rent free in my adoptive parents house. Like I know you don't got no bills, right? Like you don't need the money. You just want this to hang over my head. And he would, he would harass the crap out of me. He ended up pleading guilty to a few charges out here for like harassment because for six months he just like, he would be spoofing numbers. I'd get phone calls from like my daughter's elementary school. I don't even know how this man would do this. Get calls from like people that were saved in my phone, like my, my dad or the elementary school. And I pick up the phone and it's him on the other end of the line saying some crazy crap and saying, you know, he'd say that he was going to kill himself or that, you know, my kids were getting hurt because of me or whatever. So like I'd be calling like crisis units and stuff over there. But long story short, my, my youngest daughter ended up coming out here to be with me because once I pressed charges against him, I don't know if he thought that he was going to go to jail or something, but he was like, I'm done. I had filed for a parenting plan to give me custody because of what he was doing, but at the minimum, like, I certainly wanted to have visitation with her because that was something else that he was withholding. And you know, I just don't want nothing to do with you so you can't see your kids. So within like 48 hours notice, like he flew her out here with me and so I got her. But my sons were still on a dependency and I'm really in no position to take care of them all by myself. And at the time they had been with wonderful foster families for like 6ish months or something like that. Like, they, they went out of his care at one point when he threatened to commit suicide. And I called them, they, they took him out or them out of his care and they ended up going to these wonderful people. And I really wanted them to get adopted because at that point in time their biological father had like really never been in their life. He was addicted to methamphetamine, wildly abusive. Even in like 2018 was like the year after our youngest was born. I was trying to get like more like amicable terms with him, like, like separately from the kids, kids. And I'd go chop wood with him at his neighbor's house. And one time he invited me into his trailer because he lived in like a fifth wheel trailer on his mom's property. And he held me hostage in there and beat the crap out of me and stabbed me for like four hours. Yeah, I even got like, I turned the stub skirt into like a cute little butterfly because I flew, I flew the away. But, but like this is the man, you know, that is alternative parent. So I figured if I relinquish my parental rights that they'd get adopted by people that were great. And that's not what happened to my knowledge, because I did end up relinquishing my parental rights to them, hoping that they'd find stability. The last thing I know is that they're with him to this day. Yeah. That they gave him custody.

A (65:17)

So that would be. Is that just the two boys?

B (65:20)

Just the two boys.

A (65:21)

And then you have your oldest and your youngest.

B (65:24)

Yes. Okay. Okay. Yes. So that terrifies me because I know that at least when I was a part of like the dependency and like in the loop with things like he was supposed to do a drug test and he never did. And he, they didn't want him to do a psychological evaluation, even though all the things that he's done, he's got a lengthy criminal record and I was out here advocating for these things, like if he's going to have visitation with my kids, like, can you at least make sure that like, he's stable and like not on drugs? Because like my especially my youngest son, who's even more profoundly disabled than my oldest Son, like, he'll put everything in his mouth. He's like a baby. He's got, like, the mental capacity of an 18 month old, so he'll put everything in his mouth. And I'm thinking, like, man's on drugs. Like, you're gonna kill him if you don't do your due diligence.

A (66:16)

So when is the last time you saw your boys?

B (66:19)

Four years ago. Wow. Yeah.

A (66:22)

And he won't let you see them?

B (66:24)

Oh, absolutely not. He won't even have anything to do with her daughter. He won't. He, like, I try to send him updates every now and again, like on Facebook, and I think the last I knew, he blocked me. But, yeah, he has zero interest in co parenting at all. He only ever had, like, he. He wanted nothing to do with our sons or any of our children until I was completely out of the picture. And my sons both do make Social Security money, so I don't know if that's a motive or not, but he certainly didn't want to have anything to do with them up until I was out of their lives, so. But I do know at least one of my sons got reunited with him. So. But I. I learned that through some paperwork that I got in the mail because, like, they were trying to. They were trying to get, like, child support, and they didn't realize that I had relinquished rights. And so they. They said, oh, you know, for this case with this child. And I was like, well, for one, where's my other son? Because this is only listing one child. But, you know, and then I called them and they're like, oh, yeah, he's on, like, state assistance, and so he has to get child support. And I'm like, well, tough, because I legally don't have. Well, for one, I don't have the money to give or otherwise. I would. For two, I don't have, like, a legal obligation to do so. So, like, you can't open a case, basically. But that's how I learned about that. So I pray that they're doing okay. It's really hard knowing that there's really nothing that I can do about it. And I feel really guilty for not standing up and fighting for them because what I. I mean, I genuinely thought it was in their best interest to stay where they were at because they were getting the resources that they need. They finally got help. They were getting more attention instead of just me being like, like frazzled out of my mind between four kids. They were getting the attention that they needed, all that stuff. And I really wanted them to stay in that circumstance. And that's not what happened at all. Because, like, I didn't. I didn't even want to take them back at that point because they were so stable with those foster families for so long. I was thinking, like, it would be selfish of me to take them out of that at this point, because it's been years at this point, and I just. I want them to be okay, but hopefully, hopefully they are. And hopefully someday I can reunite with them. Because it really weighs heavy on my heart that I didn't do more. Especially because of, like, the specific trauma, too, that, like, I went through. Like, as a kid, I swore I would never do this to my kids. Swore up and down. And like, so many people, like, in my own common sensations, like, on my videos, and things are like. Like telling me, like, well, you know, shoulda, woulda, coulda, like, you're a crap parent because you didn't do this for your kids. And I'm just like, you have no idea, right, what I was going through. Like, I tried for years, for years. And I don't think it makes me a bad person or a bad parent to be like, I'm not good enough for them. Like, I don't have what they need. They need better.

A (69:33)

Right?

B (69:34)

And that's what I was trying to give them is better. Because no matter what, I just. I want them to have the best life possible. I want all my kids to have the best life possible. And so. And I realized that if I can't give that to them, then I have no business trying to give that to them when I know that it's just going to sink all of us. So. Because, like, I've never really had a support system in any way. Of course.

A (70:02)

Do you have a relationship today with your biological parents?

B (70:06)

I do. So my biological dad lives a couple states away, so, like, we're not super close, but it's not, like, because we're on bad terms or anything.

A (70:15)

You're in contact?

B (70:16)

Yeah. And my biological mother, she lives about maybe 30 minutes away from me, but I'm not on the best terms with her family.

A (70:27)

Okay.

B (70:28)

Because when I moved out here, I moved straight into, you know, her house. And this was after, like, my entire life for telling me, I'm not your mom. I'll never be your mom. You know, you can't think of me in that way. And then all of a sudden, I was, like, in her house. And she wanted to treat me as a kid, but I'm, like, in my mid-20s, and, you know, it's Just like such a, like a shock that like I, I have a habit of just like, kind of like keeping to myself and being very quiet and trying to just like do what I can to like keep on. Like, you wanted me to get a job, you want me to go to college. I was getting straight A's. I was, you know, working almost full time hours trying to take care of my oldest daughter. And just, I felt like what I was doing just was never good enough for her. So we ended up fighting a lot. And then one day we got into an argument and she was yelling at me in front of my oldest daughter. And I, you know, when I get into these circumstances, it's nothing personal towards her. Just because of what I've been through, I, I will walk away. I will, I will leave because I'm afraid. And she told me as I went out that door, she said, well, if you leave, you're never coming back. And I said, well, it's been a long time coming. And I left. And by the time that I drove to the nearest city from my place, which is like maybe a 30 minute drive, I looked at my phone and she was telling me that she was going to call the cops if I ever came back, that all my stu was going in a storage unit. It was a whole big thing. So I'm not on the best terms with her family. But now she didn't really know a whole lot of really anything that I've been through at all. So she, she's now learning more about me. Like I've been more honest about what I've been through and like she's even come to some of my therapy sessions with me. And so we're kind of working on rekindling our relationship in a more healthier way because really from the start it was kind of sabotaged by my first, my adoptive mom when she brought her in, in that circumstance. And then what happened when I just, you know, basically got thrown into her family life, but still very much afraid and having those resounding thoughts of, of, you know, I'm not your mom and I'll never be your mom and you're not a part of my family. And all these things that was told to me over and over and over again as a teenager. So it's, it's difficult, you know, but I do appreciate her. I think I have, now that I'm an adult, a lot more understanding for what she's been through too, because she's also a survivor of some pretty horrible things. And so I think that There's a mutual understanding of just like trauma responses because we tend to be very similar in those aspects of how we respond to things just out of fear. But she's not really, like a reliable support system, so to speak, just because, like, her family is not on the best terms with me still because of that.

A (73:42)

And then did you ever have any thoughts, Thoughts of reporting your adoptive mother for what happened?

B (73:49)

I've thought about it, but all I see happening is it just re. Traumatizing me. Okay. Because at the end of the day, what has to happen is, you know, if it goes to like a jury trial, for instance, they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these things happened. I don't have any doctor's reports, I don't have any photographs, I don't have any videos. All I have are really spotty memories from when I was a young child. There's no proof. Right. And so why. Why would I put myself through that?

A (74:23)

Yeah.

B (74:23)

When at the end of the day they're just gonna let her free and then it'll, you know, really kind of blow out of hand, so.

A (74:32)

And I think too, you know, it's. You're safe now. And I think the more important thing is your mental health and where you are and kind of healing through that within yourself and then, you know, whatever. I'm a big believer in what comes around, goes around. And, you know, I. Whether it's her own guilt or shame or whatever it is, she will have to deal with that on her own.

B (74:59)

Yeah, that's exactly what I think myself is. I just, I have a lot of faith in God. You know, God's got all of us in his hands, including her, and he knows everything that has happened and he. He has a way of making things right that is outside of human control. I believe, like karma.

A (75:21)

Absolutely.

B (75:22)

Like, I. I believe that, you know, she'll. She'll have to face the music with that in some way, shape or form. Like even today, kind of a little almost sign, I feel, of that happening is the fact that she has horrible arthritis in her fingers to the point where she literally cannot move them at all. Like, she. Like they're all crooked and like really painful and swollen looking the last I knew. And so to me, that's just kind of like karma.

A (75:50)

Yeah.

B (75:50)

You know, and is she.

A (75:52)

So you share your story on Tick Tock. Is she aware of that, do you think?

B (75:59)

I believe so because there's been family members that have commented on my Tick Tock posts that have told me, like, you know, we don't Believe you and things like that. You know, the usual. And so I assume that they've told her what I've posted, but none of

A (76:16)

them have reached out and been like. And said anything about it.

B (76:19)

Okay. No.

A (76:19)

Interesting.

B (76:21)

Yeah. I don't, I don't see her doing that because like I said, she's very. You cannot be direct with her.

A (76:27)

Yeah. And how long have you been sharing your story now?

B (76:29)

Depends on what story you're talking about. All of your life, about my mother in particular, has been pretty recent, just within this last year because it is very traumatizing to me. And so, you know, been working, working a lot on, trying to be more. Okay. And even just talking about that. Sorry.

A (76:51)

Do you think it's helped talking about it?

B (76:55)

I think so. In some ways. I think talking about it has, like between Tick Tock and like my treatment team. My treatment team, by talking to them about it, has opened me up to like, new therapies and things. Like I did like a round of tms. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but it's transcranial magnetic stimulation and it's almost kind of like a diet electroshock situation where they target like one specific area, like in your frontal lobe and stimulate it to like, regenerate the like, pathways there. Like, not make you so depressed. So I did that and I think that that was, that was good for me, so. Because even like with my treatment team largely for years, I did not bring up any. Anything. I was like, I've got adhd. I'm here for men management. That's all we're doing. You know, like, you didn't get into the nitty gritty. Yeah. But then finally, it was right after I relinquished my rights to my sons that everything just kind of.

A (77:52)

Yeah.

B (77:52)

Came up right at once. But then sharing my story to Tick Tock, I think it's. It's really helped me in a few ways. It's helped me because I know that like, there's no such thing as an original experience, but I very much have felt in my life that I have one.

A (78:11)

Yeah.

B (78:11)

Especially because MDSA or mother daughter sexual abuse is like not talked about at all. But the amount of comments or DMs that I've gotten that are basically saying me too is like crazy, it's craziness. But I've even gotten messages and stuff, you know, from people saying that they don't feel alone anymore, that they feel seen. And that's really what it's about out for me, posting my story on social media is so that other people know that they're not alone. And also that God is still a real God and an act of God. Like that's what I believe. And what I put on my tick tock is that like a lot of people nowadays might think that A, he doesn't believe or he doesn't exist or B, that he's like a figment of 2,000 years ago and that like the whole water and wine thing just like doesn't happen anymore.

A (79:07)

And how could you. These things happen to me if there is a God.

B (79:10)

Exactly. Exactly. And I.

A (79:12)

People forget that there's free will.

B (79:14)

Yeah.

A (79:14)

Humans can be evil. There's good and there's evil.

B (79:17)

And I see God as being kind of like a GPS system.

A (79:20)

Yeah.

B (79:20)

So like you can with your free will take a wrong route or be rerouted by, you know, something that's out of your control traffic or whatever. But God's like that gps. He knows where you're ending up at the end of the day and he's going to keep rerouting you. Right. And reroute you until you get to that point. So I, I personally believe that even the worst of things is character development and almost like the, you know, book of Job where everything was taken from him and there's not always a good reason for that happening. Like if, if people are familiar with the book of Ecclesiastes, it's very like nihilistic almost where it's like there's not a reason for anything. Bad things can happen to good people. You could do everything that the Bible says and bad things will still happen. Like it literally says that in the Bible because there is free will of people. But it depends on how you take that into your own perspective. You can either take what happened to you and really spiral and let it have a chokehold over your life and not even let it. It. You know, because sometimes you don't even have a choice. It just has a chokehold over your life.

A (80:35)

I don't think humans are really even. We're not taught and equipped like naturally to just deal with these things and then come on out and be fine.

B (80:46)

Yeah.

A (80:46)

It like it takes, I think one, it takes a strong soul. But then it also takes somebody that wants to come out on the other side. You have to want it for yourself. And that's really hard to do if you've been through.

B (80:59)

Yeah.

A (80:59)

Some serious.

B (81:00)

Yeah. And what keeps me going honestly is my, my kids.

A (81:04)

Yeah.

B (81:04)

Specifically my daughters because they depend on me physically right now. Like if I were to, you know, take myself out or something like that. Like, they have literally nobody, but also, like, for my sons, too, because I pray that someday they'll be able to look back and learn the truth. That, or I don't even know if they'll be capable of understanding the truth because of their disabilities, but just to know that I love them and that I feel just so genuinely horrible that this is how their life turned out. But I hope someday when they're an adult that it will come full circle, just like it has with my biological family, and then I'll be able to step up and step in when they need me during that time. And I. I have faith in God that he gave them to me for a reason. Even if that reason is something super small like DNA or inheritable traits. Maybe I have nothing to do with them for the rest of my life, but they still need my DNA. And that's okay. I guess that's. That's God's will. I just have to accept that.

A (82:09)

Yeah.

B (82:10)

Or it could be something greater than that to where, you know, maybe I'm meant to step in, in their lives later on and do something for them, be something for them. So. But I don't obviously know what God has in store. All I know is that he keeps saving my butt. And I don't really understand why.

A (82:28)

I think it's incredible. And, you know, like you mentioned mother, daughter, sexual assault. It's really abuse. It's. It's really not talked about that often. I think it's very. Along with a lot of stories that are on the show. I think a lot of them are more taboo. I think it makes people uncomfortable. I think that's a big reason why people don't speak up.

B (82:48)

Yeah.

A (82:49)

Even when those red flags are there. But it's very real.

B (82:52)

Yeah.

A (82:52)

And I think that it's incredible. I always say this. It's so incredible that we do have social media for that reason, where people can share these stories and connect with people that they don't even know. And it makes a big difference because even though your story is so traumatizing and traumatic, there are other people that get it and that have been through it, too. And while everybody's story is like, no story is the same, even if they're similar, even if the feelings and the reactions and the outcomes can be very similar. It's your experience, you know, but if, if sharing your story can help one person, it's worth it. It's worth it. And you could, your story could be the reason somebody keeps pushing Through.

B (83:42)

Yeah.

A (83:43)

Which.

B (83:43)

Or maybe somebody gets help or maybe somebody turns to God or maybe this, maybe that. Anything. Yeah. And to me that makes, like, it might seem messed up, but it makes what I went through worth it to me because it gives it a positive purpose.

A (83:58)

Well, that's, you know, that's something I say as well, is not that it. Once again, like you said, it sounds messed up, but. But it happened to somebody that could get through it.

B (84:08)

Yeah.

A (84:08)

You know, and of course, even if I, I think this is a misconception too, is people think like getting through something and healing through something, it doesn't mean it's like gone or you're fully cured. You're always going to have these up and down days or these days where you kind of feel like, I don't want to do this anymore. I think that that's a very, you know, we're human. At the end of the day, we're. It's.

B (84:30)

It.

A (84:30)

You can get overwhelmed, overstimulated. You can fall back into these traumatic experiences and just not get it and be frustrated and angry at the world, at God, whatever it might be. But I think it's just not staying stuck in these negative, dark places. It's kind of letting yourself feel the emotions because we are human and that's normal and natural. But then realizing, okay, I, I do have a purpose. I have something to live for, whether it's helping others, you know, being there for your children, helping yourself and just overcoming it. It's so crucial because we need more people that do that in the world.

B (85:08)

Yeah. And I think it's very important to point out, like you were saying, like, this happened to somebody who made it through it, but to everybody who's ever been through something horrible like this, they've made it through too, because otherwise they wouldn't be here. And so they are so much stronger than they think. Just by taking it day by day, by putting one foot in front of the other continually, like that's what survival is, is just continuing to just out of spite, live your life to the best of your ability.

A (85:45)

And that process, I don't think is talked about enough because we have this idea in our head of like, surviving means you're healed or surviving means you've reached this point where you're like, fine, but like you just. That's such a good point. What you mentioned is the fact that you're still here. That is part of your surviving.

B (86:00)

Exactly.

A (86:01)

You know, in your story and your healing journey. And none of that happens overnight. You know, for some people it might be a month for some people, might be 10 years or longer. You never know.

B (86:10)

Yeah.

A (86:10)

You just keep pushing.

B (86:11)

Yeah. Or even, like, within, like the. Like, next 30 minutes after being assaulted or something like that. Like, you were still surviving that.

A (86:17)

Yep.

B (86:18)

You were. You still made it out the other side.

A (86:20)

Exactly, exactly.

B (86:20)

And not a lot of people get even that opportunity. There's so many people that have been lost to violence. There's so many people that have been lost to suicide. There's so many people that have been lost to these horrible atrocities. And so to be able to say that I'm still here with breath in my lungs, that's enough. Like, that's enough. I might still have flashbacks. I might not be able to trust. Trust anybody. I might be super messed up, but I'm still here. And that means that I still have potential to keep going forward. And I do have potential. And that's what I think people just need to be reminded of again and again. Because it's so easy to let this stuff consume you and because it is horrible. I mean, just speaking from my own personal experience, like, even to this day, I still have. Have horrible flashbacks of what my mother did to me. And these flashbacks, I mean, they're. They're somatic flashbacks. So they're body flashbacks. So I feel it in my body, and it's disgusting and I hate it, and I just, like. It makes me want to die. It makes me want to curl up in a ball and die. But I feel like if I do that, then, for one, it's never giving me the opportunity to ever become anything else to anybody else. Like, that is going to be it for me, you know, the girl who got raped by her mother and then she died. The end. Or it could be the girl who got raped by her mother and then grew up to be the best mother that she could be, the best friend that she could be, somebody who, you know, gave hope to somebody else, somebody who speaks out against this, you know, the world is your platter. You can go down whatever route you want to, and it. It's hard. And there's a lot of ghosts that people don't know, you know, that might happen in your closet at night. You might go through a lot of things that people don't see, but that's okay. It's not okay that you're going through it. Like, it sucks, but it's okay in the sense of you're doing it. Yep, you're doing it. And nobody can take that from you except for yourself.

A (88:36)

It's true. And you do an amazing job job of telling your story. And obviously I'm sure you know this, but it takes an extreme amount of vulnerability and confidence, which is hard to have in a situation like that. And like, I think what you brought up too, just saying it may, you know, when you have those flashbacks, it feels disgusting and all this stuff that's like. I feel like that's very easy to think these things and just like you said, want to curl up and never talk about it. It almost get to a point where, like, you want to pretend like it didn't happen. And I'm sure a lot of people do that as well.

B (89:11)

Yeah.

A (89:12)

And there's, I'm sure, positives and negatives to that. There's positives and negatives to everything. But the fact that you are able to speak out and you choose to is incredible. Yeah, I'm sure you're an amazing mother and that's all you can do. Like you said, you know, you're trying to better your life now and the life for your children and one day at a time.

B (89:35)

Yeah. You can only do what you can do within your power over your life because you're the only person who has control over your life. And you can choose to make the best of it. And sometimes the best of it is curling up in a ball and just wanting to not.

A (89:49)

Yeah, it depends on the day.

B (89:50)

It depends on the day because, like, I'm sitting here on this podcast talking to you, you know, like, it's just, you know, willy nilly. But at home, you know, I'm like, horribly affected. I'm, you know, right in bed. Bed rotting a lot of the time.

A (90:06)

People have to remember, too, is while, yes, so many people like you are able to talk about their stories with this vulnerability and this strength. That doesn't mean that they don't have days like that. And those days are okay to have.

B (90:19)

Yeah.

A (90:20)

Not that they feel good by any means, but they're there and they're real. And that doesn't. Just because you can talk about your story doesn't mean it's. It doesn't affect you.

B (90:27)

Yeah. Yeah. I think everybody who's gone through something traumatic knows that, you know, you might be able to talk about it or, you know, you might get to the point where you've, quote, unquote, healed enough to, like, be okay with sharing that story or maybe you spend less days in bed than you used to or whatever, but that it's always going to affect you. It's always going to be there. You can't erase the past, unfortunately. But just being. Just taking care of yourself is just so important. You know, taking a shower, letting yourself, you know, watch TV and stay in bed, doing some coloring, journaling, whatever it is that floats your boat, praying to God, whatever it is that gets you through to that next day, that is it. That is it right there. That is you surviving. It's not anything to do with the future and it's the now because we've only had. Everybody's only had one now. Like, if I were to ask you, how many times have you had a now in your life? Well, you can't answer that. There's only been one now right now. You know, present moment. Exactly. But it was now then, too. And that's why it feels so real. Now is because. Stories now. Exactly. Exactly.

A (91:43)

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, seriously, for wanting to come on here and being able to and willing, and it means so much to me. And I hope that you continue to share your story and speak out, you know, about it. And even like you said, there are so many aspects of your story, and I know you didn't get into a lot of detail of some of the other stuff, but even those aspects, they're just as important because every. Everyone is dealing with something. And that's why I do love that when people come on, they. They might have one main story, but it's, it's interesting because I've even seen there's different little parts that people will go off on, and in the comments I'll read, people will relate to those. Those little aspects as well. So, you know, there's. There's never a story that. I always tell people this as well. It's like there's never a story that's too big or too small. There's always somebody that can relate because at the end of the day, you know, like we mentioned, we are human. We're all having a very similar yet different experience. But. But I'm just grateful that you are sharing yours and that you did it on the show. It means so much to me and you did incredible.

B (92:45)

Well, likewise. I'm very, very thankful for this opportunity to get to speak to your platform. And I really hope that, you know, somebody, just even one person gets something positive out of this and it changes their life for the better because that's, that's, that's really what speaks to me in my heart, is to just help other people through it, make a difference, make it worth something, you know, instead of it just being horrible and ruining your life, let it better somebody else's life because then you weren't suffering needlessly.

A (93:17)

Yeah, I agree. I always say that no matter what it is, if you can turn a negative into a positive, which you somehow, some way always can, you know, do it, that's all you can do. Because I think that even if I. At first, it isn't for yourself, you know, it's for other people. I do feel like there is some bittersweet fulfillment in it to know, okay, it's helping someone.

B (93:40)

Yes.

A (93:41)

And that's all you can do.

B (93:43)

Exactly. I think a lot of people will sooner help somebody else than themselves too.

A (93:47)

It trickles down. It's this, this effect. And we, we need more people like that. We just do. I think that I. I kind of noticed. I think we are in the world opening up more to being vulnerable and people sharing their stories, which is so incredible. But we need more of it. We need more sincerity and this. No judgment. I don't know why people still judge. I don't get it. Like, everybody's going through their own thing. It's baffling to me that people still can be so. Like, we live in such an evil world. Like if, if, if people were just nicer and more open and just listened, it would be a better place. And I just think that there needs to be more people like that and more people willing to share and not have any shame behind their story and. And everything else in between.

B (94:34)

Exactly. One thanks to people like you that, you know, give your platform to other people in order to do that. I think that this is a very interesting time that we live in because this has never been an opportunity before ever to anybody. Like, like even communicating to, like, you could pick up a phone and call someone in China. That could not happen 100 years ago, you know, so you could FaceTime with somebody, you know, shut people up nowadays. Exactly. And so now we have access to all these other people's stories where before, for, you know, the entirety of human existence, if we didn't know somebody personally who also went through this stuff, we were alone and that's that. But now we live in the 21st century where we can hear other people's stories. And so for the first time, we as a collective human experience are realizing that we are not alone or we are not unique in this situation. There's other people that have been through it too. And just having that sense of community in and of itself can just mean so much to people.

A (95:32)

Life changing. It's incredible. I think then that's the key. It really is that community without even having, like you said, to meet somebody, it can really, it can make a big difference.

B (95:42)

Yeah.

A (95:43)

So.

B (95:43)

Yeah. Because you could be sitting bed rotten in bed right now watching this.

A (95:46)

Yeah.

B (95:47)

And that's still community. It is still community.

A (95:49)

It's relatable and it's, it's real. That's why I, I like it to be this format of just people being able to take it in the direction they want and like, share whatever you want, say whatever you want. Because there's people that relate to it, there's people that just want to hear it and they don't want it to feel. I mean, even with documentaries and I used to love watching documentaries and now I feel like when you watch them, it just feels so scripted and fake,

B (96:14)

like, you know, the David Attenborough type.

A (96:17)

What am I watching here?

B (96:18)

Like, I don't even know.

A (96:19)

It's bizarre, but it feels like a low budget film. But I feel like with this, it's just very real, very raw. And that's what, that's the whole point of it. You know, I always said when I, when I started this, I was like, I want people to know what this show is like. Yes, I hosted, I'm sitting here and I open up my home for people to come and, and share their stories. But it's not about me, it's not about that. It's about you guys. And I wouldn't be able to have the platform without people like you that, that are willing to open up and share some of the worst parts of your life. And that is no small thing at all. And it is so fulfilling to me to be able to give people that voice. Because I think too, even if so, you know, there's some people that, whether they do share on their own or they don't know how to share because they don't really know where to start. That's kind of what I'm here for. Just to kind of give them that voice and just push it out to more people because they know it'll get seen, they know people will hear it. I think there is some fear and like, oh, well, like anybody can start a, a TikTok, but maybe it won't get views or people won't care. And I think that I, I hope that at least that this show kind of gives people that. What's the word? It shows people that there's. There, there is always somebody listening. There's always somebody that cares about your story and cares about to say.

B (97:37)

And sometimes it'll surprise you too, because, I mean Like I, I, on my personal TikTok, I never went out looking to be some sort of like influencer or anything. I post on that because it's therapeutic to me. Like that's what it started out as.

A (97:50)

Start to see people responding and you're like, wait a second, people feel the same way as me.

B (97:54)

People.

A (97:55)

It's, it's crazy. Yeah, it is. And it's, it's shocking to me how many just from doing this, I've been doing it for a little over three years now. How many people have gone through such, such similar things and it's things that you might see in movies, might. And they're even going to brush the surface of it.

B (98:13)

Yeah.

A (98:14)

But nobody talks about it. You're not hearing about that.

B (98:17)

Yeah.

A (98:18)

Ever. You're just not. So it's like I feel like people just need to be more honest and more open and talk and communicate. I mean that's what we're meant to do. We're meant to communicate and help each other.

B (98:30)

Yes. And especially to victims too because like, it's not your fault. No. Like it can be daunting to know that like other people know what you've been through, your deepest, darkest secrets, things that you really hate about yourself that were horrible and traumatizing and should have never happened. But it's your story to tell at the end of the day and you shouldn't be ashamed or feel any shame for doing so because you didn't do anything wrong. No, it was not your choice. It's something that happened to you. It's your truth. So if your perpetrator or you know, whoever did it to you doesn't want it to be broadcast or whatever, they shouldn't have done it to you in the first place.

A (99:14)

Exactly.

B (99:15)

So, you know, that's, that's where I'm coming from is, you know, I guess I have my own reasons for not like wanting to like publicly share their like, personal information. Like even on my own tick tocks and things like that. You know, I don't, I don't want any bad to come to people ever. I don't do it out of, you know, a evil spirited heart or like, you know, any sort of like malicious intent. It's therapeutic to me to post about it on my tick tock. And then if, you know, it blows up and somebody texts me or you know, DMS me saying, you changed my life because of this, you know, like that's, that's what's crazy to me is just something that, that was even, just so like Selfish. And it's like, first, like, reasoning to, like, why got put out there can just, like, take a whole new tangent to itself and really affect other people in ways that you didn't think was gonna happen. Because you could even have, you know, your own little small platform with your, like, 60 followers or whatever. And you post one thing, you wake up the next day and like, People magazines waking up, you know, like, it's crazy how things can happen nowadays because, I mean, I'm certainly a nobody from nowhere, you know, that has no support system, not a lot of friends, you know, a hermit by all regards.

A (100:34)

But your story matters.

B (100:36)

Exactly. And it resonates with people. And I've realized that now. And I realize that it's my. It's. It's a purpose in my life to basically attest to what I've been through and share my story with others and. And even that. That one day that I was held hostage and stabbed, there was a song that was playing in that trailer, and it was Joy by For King and Country. And the song's lyrics go like, hear my prayer tonight Give me strength to raise my voice Let me testify this is do or die. It's time to make a choice. So I choose Joy. And I remember thinking that moment I was hearing that, like, as I was like, actively, like, thinking I was gonna be murdered. Yeah. I was like, please, just give me, like, you know, you got me out of this before. You told me be still. I listen, you got me out of this before. So I have faith. Faith that if I'm meant to go out and continue sharing my story and continue, you know, impacting people's lives, that that's what's going to happen. I'm going to make it out of here. And if that's not your intent for my life and it's your intent for it to end. Exactly. Like, I'm cool with that too, because my life sucks. Right?

A (101:44)

Yeah, exactly.

B (101:45)

Exactly. But that's not what happened. So now I feel like I have, you know, a purpose. Purpose. And sharing that with other people, like, that's the reason why I keep getting pulled out of these situations, is to just bring hope to other people and bring perspective to people that, you know, you can go through really terrible things, multiple terrible things. You could be, you know, a victim of poly victimization where you're just, you know, really having at it from all sides and you can still get up, eat breakfast, put on your makeup, you know, live your day and survive and do it for you or for your kids or for your parents or for your friends or whoever it's for, but you're still doing it at the end of the day. And it's like the butterfly effect. It affects people in ways that you don't even understand. For you to be here and just continuing to live, live and, you know, if you want to share your story, if you don't want to share your story, just being here impacts people in such profound ways that I don't think people really understand.

A (102:55)

Well, you did incredible.

B (102:57)

I appreciate it.

A (102:58)

Seriously. Thank you so much. Was there any. Anything else you wanted to talk about or share?

B (103:02)

I.

A (103:02)

Are you okay with me linking your tick tock and stuff in the description?

B (103:05)

Yeah. You're totally cool with that? Yeah.

A (103:07)

And if there's anything else, any resources. Resources, Anything at all, I'll remind you if you forget, but send them to me and I'd be happy to put anything you want in the description or, or whatever. But you did amazing.

B (103:18)

Yeah, definitely. Well, I appreciate it for everything that you're doing for everybody and giving us your platform to share. And I hope you keep doing a great job doing that. I'll do my best.