Survivor of Animal R*pe

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "We're All Insane"

Episode: Survivor of Animal R*pe

Host: Devorah Roloff
Guest: Jada (Jada’s Advocacy / Justice for Jada)
Date: May 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features an unfiltered, raw testimonial from Jada, a survivor of severe and multilayered childhood abuse at the hands of her biological mother and stepfather. Jada bravely details her journey through years of sexual, physical, and emotional trauma, her struggles with self-blame and family dynamics, her path towards healing, and her ongoing fight for justice—including her recent legal reporting and advocacy work. The episode is a powerful, often harrowing look into taboo subjects like animal-associated abuse and the failures of both familial and legal systems in supporting survivors.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jada’s Background and Family Structure

• Early Trauma:
  Jada recounts her earliest memories as being rooted in pervasive abuse, primarily sexual but also emotional and psychological, by her biological mother and stepfather ([01:23], [03:20]).
• Sibling Dynamics:
  Explains estranged relationships with siblings, complicated by step-sibling rivalries, parents’ manipulations, and collective victimization ([02:37]-[05:57]).

Trauma Responses & Impact on Functioning

• Coping Mechanisms:
  Describes falling into “fawning” and “flopping” (people-pleasing, dissociation) as survival tactics ([03:20]), onset of substance abuse, and difficulties in school and basic daily routines ([05:57]).
• Quote:
  "It happened to me so often... it was just normal. You do what you gotta do to survive." – Jada ([04:49])

Access to the Outside World

• Friendships & Risk:
  Jada often brought friends home, unintentionally exposing them to her abuser, and describes regret and guilt around that now ([06:15]).
  “Looking back as an adult… you realize you were putting your friends in bad situations…” – Jada ([06:40])
• Abuser’s Reach:
  Her stepfather targeted anyone vulnerable—children, adults, animals ([06:46]).

Specifics of Abuse and Breaking the Silence

• Taboo of Animal-Associated Abuse:
  Jada discusses being forced to participate in and witness acts of sexual abuse involving a family dog, emphasizing the lack of public discourse and law enforcement prioritization ([07:50]-[10:14]).
• Isolation and Minimization:
  Jada highlights feeling uniquely alone due to the silence and dismissal around this type of abuse by society and law, as well as through media’s trivialization ([09:05], [10:13]).

Notable Quote

"I could not face what he had done to me with my childhood animal... I just couldn't put the words to it for years." – Jada ([07:50])

Law Enforcement and Legal System Experiences

• Minimizing Crimes Against Animals:
  Abuse involving animals is often a minor charge, with Jada describing these as "slap on the wrist" punishments; many charges were dismissed in her case ([10:14]).
• Premeditation:
  Jada details the premeditated nature of her stepfather’s crimes: "He just decided... I'm gonna get an animal and live out this sick fantasy…" ([14:04]).
• Failures of CPS, Family, and Community:
  Recounts multiple instances where red flags were missed, dismissed, or ignored by extended family, teachers, and authorities ([21:22]-[23:02]).

The Internal Family Struggle

• Disclosure and Rejection:
  Jada describes telling her story for the first time as a child, being met by denial, disbelief, or defensive anger when she disclosed to family as a teen and adult ([18:14], [24:29]).
• Loss of Control:
  The forced reporting by her aunt/uncle as an adult, without safety planning or support, led to more trauma, anger, and, ultimately, recanting ([42:48]-[47:14]).
• Quote:
  "By them reporting without your consent, you have no control again." – Host ([46:00])

The Role of Therapy and Community

• Therapeutic Journey:
  Therapy started after a suicide attempt at 16. Difficulty in trusting or disclosing to therapists due to fear of mandated reporting ([56:26]-[59:29]).
• Online Community Impact:
  Jada’s candid disclosure online brought her comfort and led to hundreds of survivors reaching out, validating her experiences and the importance of visibility ([63:35]).

Notable Quote

"I absolutely felt alone... there has to be somebody else out here who has gone through this. At that time, I really did feel completely alone." – Jada ([09:05])

Societal Silence & Normalization

• Culture of Joking/Minimization:
  Discusses how pop culture, memes, and dark jokes about bestiality/animal abuse further isolate survivors and provide cover for abusers ([67:53], [71:56]).
• Advocacy Focus:
  Jada deliberately shares “taboo” content to help others find the words, support, and validation she wished for as a child ([63:35]-[68:01]).

Legal Reporting and Trial

• Reporting Decision:
  After many cycles of wavering, Jada decided to formally report her stepfather in December 2023, catalyzed by family support and final straws like his denial to investigators ([73:52]-[77:35]).
  • Had to report in multiple jurisdictions due to legal procedures ([81:21]-[83:45]).
  • Was adamant about not repeatedly retelling her story: "Can you just watch my TikTok, please?... I'm not doing that." – Jada ([82:42])
• Grand Jury & Legal Delays:
  Details traumatic process: two grand juries required, legal technicalities on dates and charges, frustration with slow justice ([90:55]-[95:10]).
• Current Status:
  Stepdad is out on bail, trial delayed, but facing substantial formal charges; Jada’s mother could face complicity charges after the trial ([95:05]-[98:39]).

Notable Quote

"There are consequences to crimes... When you speed on the road, you get a ticket. When you sexually abuse kids, there needs to be true consequences, and they should not be 26 years later." – Jada ([77:49])

Maternal Betrayal and Trafficking

• Mother’s Direct Involvement:
  Mother not only enabled but participated in initial abuse and later trafficked Jada for photographs to men in exchange for money/goods ([100:08]-[110:25]).
• Quote:
  "She trafficked me... She took my body and used it for profit... It's beyond my ability to get over." – Jada ([107:24])

Advocacy, Healing, and Reflections

• Patterns and Recovery:
  Jada reflects on how trauma affected her self-worth, relationships, and how she is intentional about breaking cycles ([119:43]-[123:03]).
• Support from Online Community:
  Cites messages and outreach from other survivors as vital motivators for continuing advocacy even in the face of hate or misunderstanding ([129:33]-[131:27]).
• Advocacy for Broader Change:
  Urges changes in societal attitudes, criminal justice priorities, and especially the end to minimizing sexual abuse and abuse of animals ([140:13]-[142:19]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Internalizing Trauma:
  "You do what you gotta do to survive. Just put a smile on your face and make it to the next day." – Jada ([04:49])

• On Reporting:
  "You don't need to report unless you truly want to. And I don't even think you should report if you are alone. Like if you do not have a support network... it is a very traumatic thing to do." – Jada ([46:17])

• On Society’s Role:
  "People truly don't believe it... and it doesn't help that we make jokes about bestiality and... it's not, because there are people who have really gone through these traumatic things." – Jada ([09:43])

• On Breaking the Silence:
  "For years, even going to therapy, talking about it online, finding a lot of other survivors, I just couldn't put the words to it and like, face it." – Jada ([07:50])

• On Community Response:
  "You've really changed my life... For so long I sat there for years thinking, I'm so alone in this, I'm disgusting, nobody's ever gone through this." – Jada ([63:35])

• On Justice and Law:
  "It’s not a very serious thing in our criminal system... having somebody sexually abuse you with an animal, it’s very minor.” – Jada ([10:14])

• On Family Rejection:
  "Everyone just turns against you when you disclose stuff like this because they’re so shamed and they’re so disgusted..." – Jada ([23:01])

• On Being Seen: "I just needed support and community... then it grew into me being this person who was helping people. But I was like, I didn’t even come here to help." – Jada ([129:33])

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Timestamps for Major Topics

• [01:23] – Jada’s intro & family background
• [05:57] – Trauma responses & school impact
• [07:50] – Discussing taboo aspects of animal-related abuse
• [14:04] – Abuse was premeditated
• [21:22]-[23:01] – Family & community awareness, failures to intervene
• [24:29]-[31:01] – Disclosing to friends/first love, family trauma
• [42:48]-[47:14] – Forced reporting, loss of agency, system trauma
• [56:26] – Starting therapy after suicide attempt
• [63:35] – Community feedback & the power of visibility
• [73:52] – Deciding to report; support from siblings
• [90:55]-[96:39] – Legal process, grand jury & stepdad’s charges, status
• [107:24] – Mother trafficking Jada, further betrayal
• [119:43]-[124:16] – Ongoing patterns, healing, rebuilding
• [129:33] – The evolution of Jada’s advocacy
• [140:13]-[142:19] – Criminal justice failings and call for societal change

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Tone & Takeaways

• Raw, Unvarnished Honesty:
  Jada’s narration is unguarded, occasionally graphic, reflecting the intensity and complexity of her journey while remaining matter-of-fact and insightful about her trauma.
• Direct Language, Lived Wisdom:
  Both host and guest address systemic and cultural failures head-on, refusing to shy away from dark or taboo realities.
• Validation, Community, and Survivor-Centered Advocacy:
  The overall message is one of solidarity, honesty, empowerment, and the vital need for supportive community and systemic change.
• Closing Reminder:
  Survivors do not owe their stories to anyone, and sharing is about regaining control and reclaiming agency at their own pace.

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This episode is a must-listen for those interested in trauma-informed storytelling, accountability, advocacy, and building compassion for those navigating unimaginable realities.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Well, I'm Jada. A lot of people who have already heard my story and seen my accounts know me under Jada's advocacy or Jada's justice for a while, but I switched it back. I've been sharing my story pretty openly for, I would say about, honestly about five years now. So I started posting in like 2021, and I started posting my story while I was actively living with my abusers, which was my biological mother and my stepfather for the people who are maybe hearing this for the first time. So I guess I could like start with a little bit of my story for the people who haven't heard it and then kind of go into how like I reported and things like that. But really my whole entire life, as early as I can remember was abuse and trauma. Like, my earliest memories are being abused by my biological mother and my stepfather. The majority of it was sexual abuse, but it was just torturous in that house. Like, there was emotional abuse, physical abuse, a lot of psychological stuff with like, my mom locking up our food and just you really had to walk on eggshells in the house. And those are like my earliest memories.

[A]

Did you have siblings?

[B]

Yes, I had. My little brother was born when I was three and a half and my little sister was born When I was nine. So those were the two siblings I had that lived in the house. But I also have an older sister who I'm now very close with. But at the time she lived with her mom full time. So I would see her like holidays. We didn't really have a set schedule, so I would see her like weekends occasionally, things like that. And we had a very distant relationship because her dad was my stepfather, who was my main abuser. So I. She didn't like me because I didn't like her dad. And you know, the whole like stepsister

[A]

drama type thing, I just don't understand yet.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, you don't what's going on.

[B]

You don't get it. And we've definitely made amends and we have a great relationship now. But yeah, all of my relationships with my siblings were very difficult. Still to this day, they are the relationships that we have that are kind of non existent at this point. Yeah, growing up, it was just kind of like I said from the start, just abuse. I kind of just. I guess I fell into fawning a lot and flopping, which are trauma responses of just kind of like people pleasing and going along with what my abusers wanted for years until I kind of reached those teenage where you kind of start to get your own attitude or you start to kind of look at other people's lives. And then that's when I started to realize, like, maybe what is happening to me isn't normal. But I would say up until about 14, I was very in this haze of like, it happened to me so often, the sexual abuse and just everything in that house, it was just normal. It was just every day. That's just what I experienced. It wasn't like I was crying or like upset. It was kind of more just like, you do what you gotta do to survive. Just put a smile on your face and make it to the next day. Cause if you don't, my mom's even more mad at you. Because she very much was like kind of a drill sergeant. Very like, no crying's allowed. Tough it up, brush it off. I think that's because she struggles internally with showing her own emotions and being there for people. So it made her uncomfortable. So she kind of shut that down. So I was forced to kind of just shove it all down until I got to a point where I just couldn't anymore. And then that's when it started showing up in my life, like with substance abuse issues. And I started smoking cigarettes when I was 14 and I just struggled super, super bad. In school, like, and that's the thing that I don't think that people realize, like, people who aren't survivors or maybe in, you know, have been around a lot of survivors, that it's not just the sexual abuse, and then you're fine afterwards. If you go to some therapy, it carries on, and it causes so many other, like, difficulties. And then you have to deal with those difficulties. But it all roots back to that trauma. So I was dealing with, you know, not being able to go to school, and if I was at school, not being able to focus on my work. And I just really struggled with everything in life, really. I mean, getting up, eating, doing all of those things that might be easier for somebody. I just could not do.

[A]

Body is constantly living in that fight or flight. And I wanted to ask you as well, growing up, were, did your parents allow you or your mom and your stepdad, did they allow you to have plans with friends and things like that, or was it very strict with everything?

[B]

So that's the thing that kind of made my life a little bit confusing is that there were good times in my childhood. So I did have friends, and I brought a lot of friends, actually over more than I would go out. And I think that was due to me not wanting to be away from my siblings. That was just kind of a pattern throughout my childhood of just kind of wanting to stay close to them because I knew what was going on in the house. So I would bring a lot of my friends over. Which now, looking back as an adult, you know, you realize you were kind of putting. I wasn't. But my parents were allowing me to put my friends in bad situations and in dangerous situations around a predator who didn't only, you know, prey on me. My stepdad 100% preyed on anyone that was around him. You know, friends, animals, adults. I mean, even the elderly. I would not put it past him. You know, like, everything. Yeah. I believe that anything that is vulnerable and available, like, he will take advantage. And I feel like at this point, no, because I've reported it, and he's, you know, under such strict, you know, everything. But before, I mean. Yeah, I believe throughout the whole entire. His whole entire life, up until I reported him, he was preying on everyone.

[A]

And then as for the people that haven't heard your story yet, because even for myself, I know I've kind of grazed over everything. What are. Have you shared some of the specifics of the abuse on your.

[B]

Yes, I have. I think I've definitely pulled back from sharing them just as now that I'm, like, going to a trial and things like that. So I've kind of just stopped sharing them as much on my platform. But I haven't deleted any of my old videos or anything like that. The stuff with, like, him sexually abusing me with the animal and stuff like that, these are topics that I specifically choose to talk about on my platform, even though they are super raw and super taboo. But I do that on purpose because absolutely, completely felt alone in those experiences. Like, I would say, probably out of all of the abuse that I went through, which was, you know, nine years of sexual abuse almost every day by my stepfather. So that's a lot of abuse. I would say I could not face, like, what he had done to me with my childhood animal at all. Like, I couldn't really even put it to words. Like, for years, even going to therapy, you know, talking about it online, you know, for quite a while, finding a lot of other survivors, I just couldn't put the words to it and, like, face it. And then one day I just started kind of going online and looking and looking, and I just couldn't. I just couldn't find anything at all. Nothing. And then that's when I realized, like, this stuff needs to be talked about more.

[A]

Like, absolutely.

[B]

I feel completely alone, and there has to be somebody else out here who has gone through this. But at that time, I really did feel completely alone. Like, I didn't really know if anyone had gone through that.

[A]

Yeah. And I think the thing. The thing with things like that as well is that it's. It's dark, but it's also very real. And I think it's. I think a lot of this stuff isn't talked about in depth because people either don't want to hear it or it makes them uncomfortable, but it's very real, and it's out there and it's happening, and it is something that, you know, it needs to be addressed and talked about.

[B]

Yes. And I also believe that people truly don't believe it. Like, that is actually, like, I truly believe that. And it doesn't help that we make jokes about bestiality and we put things like even in the latest euphoria, somebody dressing up as a dog, and it seems so innocent. But it's not, because there are people who have really gone through these traumatic things triggering. And then even if it's not triggering, it's still minimizing a real serious thing. Yeah.

[A]

The severity of it.

[B]

Right. And it's a not very serious thing in our criminal system. Like, if you really look at the charges for sexually abusing animals or having somebody, you know, sexually abuse you with an animal. It's very minor. They're usually class C misdemeanors. They're very slap on the wrist. You, you know, you go home, you're. You're fine. And I mean, that's what kind of happened with me. Even, like, I had to go back to grand jury after reporting, and they've taken all of those charges away because they're so minor and just added like more severe crimes to it. And they're just considering it that.

[A]

Do you think it's. Because obviously the animals can't defend themselves. Like, it's like they consider it less serious. It's not another human being that like, can.

[B]

Yes, I do believe that. Yeah. And I just don't think that. I don't think that people take it seriously. Partly because of our media and how much we have just kind of minimized the severity of sexually abusing animals. I mean, it was legal forever. I mean, so many people, I mean, it's still. They say that it's illegal. It's still all over the Internet. You know, I was forced to watch all of this type of stuff as a child. You know, it shouldn't be there. Like, we should have safeguards that completely wipe that stuff off of the Internet. It's possible that they could, but they don't. It is there, readily accessible for anybody to watch it. And that's just terrible.

[A]

Sick.

[B]

Yeah, it's sick. And a lot of those people that are in those videos or are people maybe behind it, the camera, that. And they're forcing those people to do it. They will never have any consequences half the time.

[A]

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[B]

Shocking.

[A]

It's insane.

[B]

It truly is. And like, what happened to me was completely premeditated, like, with the, like. He woke up one day after, you know, years of watching these video making me watch these videos and him watching them probably on his own as well. And he woke up one day. This is what I truly believe. And he just decided, you know, like, I'm gonna get an animal and live out this sick fantasy because it was so random. He did it behind my mom's back. She said she did not want an animal. She went to work. He just woke up, woke me and my siblings up. And we're like, we're gonna go and get a dog today. And then within, I would say maybe not even a month of having this animal, he was sexually abusing it and forcing it to sexually abuse me. So, like, looking at it, it's premeditated. Like, there's no way. And then after this, the dog has some skin issues and they don't want to put the money into it. So then they just re home him. So it's like. And it was not even just that he was a dog that Like I loved was my family dog. It's that he went even to the extreme of this dog was deaf and blind. So like, this dog not only is an animal who cannot speak and cannot protect themselves as a human can, but it's even more, you know, like vulnerable because this animal actually is like disabled. You know, like, it's just. It's horrible. Like it is genuinely horrible. And then these people just walk amongst us, you know, you report them, they bail out, you know, and then they just sit around and walk free.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's. Yeah.

[A]

And would he do this to all of your siblings?

[B]

I do not believe that he did anything to my siblings besides like things that I would obviously let my siblings share on their own accord. There was, you know, when you live with predators, I feel like there's no way for everyone in the house to not be affected.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I believe that my siblings, in my eyes, were sexually abused, but I'm not going to like share their stories for them. But when you are openly watching pornography when there are three children in the living room, that is a form of sexual abuse, whether you are being touched or not.

[A]

So I do, I'm so traumatic. Yeah.

[B]

I do consider all of my siblings victims of sexual abuse and of abuse in general. Because even if they were not victims of sexual abuse in my parents eyes or maybe even the law's eyes, they were victims of abuse, period. Because there was so much more that went in, you know, in that house than just what my stepfather was doing or my mother took partaken for a while.

[A]

How was your mother's relationship with your stepfather?

[B]

Were they.

[A]

Were they pretty abusive towards each other or.

[B]

Yeah, I would say that my mom was more of the aggressor in a lot of these situations. And that's kind of hard to face. And I do think that some of the situations were more like mutual. But he was maybe the quieter one. So it just seemed like she was the aggressor because she is very loud. But their relationship was very. They were just constantly pointing fingers at each other, just blaming each other for things. Constantly. I seen a lot of domestic violence, them fighting, putting hands on each other in the car, throwing things at each other. I mean, it was very. I mean, they were openly swingers, so. But they also like lacked loyalty and communication, which I think that has to be a part in that. So they would always be fighting about cheating or this or that. And they never kept it quiet. You know, it was very loud and stressful. I was constantly trying to hide, you know, my Siblings from it cover their ears. You know, like, let's go to my room and play, or let's go outside, because we shouldn't be around this type of deal. And that's another reason why I wouldn't like to go to school because my siblings were much younger than me. So most of the time my brother and me went to school. But my sister was at home for, you know, the first five years of her life while I was trying to go to school. But it was difficult.

[A]

Did you ever confide in any of your friends about what was happening at home, or did you really keep it to yourself?

[B]

Truthfully, I was pretty open about what was happening. Once I got to the point of, like, after what happened to me with the animal, I really kind of cracked. Like, I was kind of broken. Because at that time I started to blame myself, and I think that's what it was. I really started to feel a lot of shame and, like, disgust towards myself for having gone through these things, which obviously it was misplaced, but I did not know that at the time. So I started to kind of get overwhelmed with all of those feelings. And I felt like I needed to kind of tell people because I wasn't a very good friend or a very good person at all. Like, I really struggled. I was very angry. And, yeah, I just wasn't a very good friend, like, at all. That's just the easiest way to put it. So, like, to make sense of why I wasn't, you know, acting accordingly, I would kind of. I told my best friend, like, this is what I'm going through. At the time, we were probably only nine or 10, you know, maybe 11 at the most, like the oldest. You don't know what to do with that.

[A]

Right?

[B]

When your friend's crying on the playground, saying, my dad's touching me, like, you don't, you know, she didn't know what to do with that. So being the naive person who obviously wasn't taught anything, just like I wasn't, you know, not about safe touch or safe adults or when something happens like that, you go and tell an adult. She wasn't taught that. So she went and told my older sister, which was my, you know, that was my stepdad's biological daughter. So this put a lot of fear into me because we were all the same age. So we all played together.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

Then my sister came to me and said, your friend told me that, you know, you said this. And then I just completely denied it. And then at that point, I kind of shut down. So I would Say, until I was about 14, 15. That's when I talked about it again.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I stayed silent after that one incident because he found out that I had told my older sister. Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then he came up to me and was like, why are you going around the neighborhood telling people that? You can't tell people that. And really, like, the way that he said it, the face, you know, it was very. He didn't need to threaten me. I knew what it. That he was dangerous. And if I didn't listen, I feared for my safety. I feared that he would make up lies about me and tell them to my mom, maybe say that I was bad all day or. And then make the relationship with me and my mom even worse. I would get the silent treatment. I mean, I would get treated differently if I didn't behave accordingly to what he wanted.

[A]

Do you think any adults, like, in, like, around your area or even at their work, were they. Did they both work?

[B]

So, like, there would be periods of time.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They were very. Like, none of them had careers.

[A]

Gotcha. Okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because I was gonna ask, like, as far as community goes, do you think anyone had any idea of the type of people they were or they were. They kind of stuck to themselves.

[B]

I would say that people definitely knew who my mom was.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

A lot of people, and they can deny it, but she was very loud, she was very angry, and she had a very hard time. She has mental illness. Like, I feel like it is very hard for people who have mental illness to keep it under check all the time. And I think that my family members definitely knew that she was at least verbally abusive to all of her kids, you know, that she locked up the cabinets. I mean, you could go in the house and you could see that, you know, there are just things, like, I know that my apartment maternal grandmother knew a lot more than what she wants to admit. And I think that's, you know, due to people being bystanders, you know, the bystander effect, and just. You don't know when to step in. You don't know, you know, and it's your family member. And, you know, I've tried to let go of a lot of blame for those people, but there comes a point where when things, certain things are disclosed, you have to do what you are supposed to do, which is protect children no matter what.

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[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and you have to go against your child to protect your grandchild or whatever it is. You have to stand with the person who was sexually abused or abused in any capacity. Not just sexual abuse. You know, like, abuse is very serious and a lot of these families just brush it under the rug. Oh, she did her best. Or. And that's not. That's not good enough. Even if it was her best, there's still abuse that took place, you know, so it's like, what are we doing to really support these people or protect them? And I wasn't only just not protected throughout my entire childhood, but then my family completely let me down once I finally disclosed to them as an adult when I was about 19. You know, everyone just turns against you when you disclose stuff like this because they're so shamed and they're so disgusted or they're so embarrassed that they didn't help or whatever, but they don't take a step back and think, well, I'm not the victim in this. Yeah, you know, I'm actually not. Yes, sexual abuse affects the entire family unit, but you're truly not the victim. And I have been kind of made to feel like my entire family, like, victimize themselves and just kind of abandon me when I really just needed true support. And I've had to do everything alone.

[A]

So you told your friend around nine years old, then you were quiet again until you were 14. And then who did you tell when you were 14?

[B]

I think that the first person I told when I was 14 would have been my first love.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like my first girlfriend. Like, not my first girlfriend, but like the one that counts, you know, the one that I was absolutely with for the longest. And I. Basically, anyone that I was intimate with, it got to a point where I would cry, like, after being intimate with anyone, like, and it was just like, they would feel bad and, like, feel like it was almost their fault. Like they were making me upset. And I didn't like that feeling. So I would always try to disclose before, even if it was very like, you know, simple, like, oh, just so you know, I went through sexual abuse. So, you know, I have these triggers or whatever. I didn't need to do a deep dive for everyone, but I ended up like really disclosing a lot to my first love. I told her, like, everything that had happened to me. And that was really difficult because, you know, it was the first time that I had really told anyone anything. And then it kind of just continued like we weren't together. You know, we would. It was a young love, so we would break up and then I would, you know, be with other people and things like that. And then slowly more people kind of find found out. I would slowly tell friends. And always when I would tell people, I would make sure, like, that nobody was like, gonna tell anyone else or report for me or anything like that. I was very honestly, at the beginning, I don't really think I told anyone who did it. I was kind of more just like this happened. But, you know, I don't know by who, you know, that kind of deal. Besides, you know, my love that was the only person who knew, like, the true details of it all. And then we kind of drifted apart completely. And weird side part of my life trauma. She ended up dating my stepsister for a year about.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And during that time, she told my sister that everything had happened. So a little bit of a trail there, you know, telling somebody's story for them. But then this kind of confirmed the original thing that I had told, you know, that my sister had found out when we were around 8 or 9.

[A]

Side note was this. Do you think your stepsister was getting abused by her dad?

[B]

I do not think so. She went through her own trauma, but from like what we have talked about, now she kind of considers herself, like I have said, kind of like, because she was around, you know, you were victimized to some degree. I mean, that is her father, you

[A]

know, And I ask because, yeah, like, I was thinking between your one friend telling her and then this girlfriend X

[B]

thing, love,

[A]

like, if it was hard for her to believe because it wasn't happening to her. So it wasn't like it was like, oh, like it happened to me too, I believe. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, no, I think it was very difficult for her to believe. And I. And at one point, obviously, my sister dating my first love and all this. It caused a lot of turmoil. My sister went no contact for a while. You know, we were all 16. You know, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. You know, we were all young. Yeah, we moved on. Me and my sister, like, love each other to death. You know, it is what it is. But during that time, it caused a lot of, like, stress for me. And, like, I just didn't understand why My sister would do that to me at the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or why my ex would do it was just, like, really confusing for me. So I remember kind of going to my sister at one point before she had actually, like, before my ex girlfriend had told her. I kind of went to her in a message, and I was like, hey, like, I don't know, like, what happened in our childhood that, like, have made our relationship, like, so bad that you need to, like, date my ex or whatever? Like, I don't know what's going on here, but I just wanted, like, you know, I've gone through a lot in the house that, like, maybe I didn't share with you. And I didn't tell her anything. It was like a kind of like a I want to tell you but I can't tell you type of deal. And then she replied back with, you know, like, I'm not here for your mystery novel, Jada. Like, when you really want to actually tell me what's going on, I'm here, but I don't know what you're talking about. Like, yeah, you know, like, I'm lost.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then that's when I think Anna decided my ex. Is this how you find. Yeah, it's totally okay. She decided to tell her. And I. I think it was in good faith at that time. Like, it was in good faith that she told her, because I think she was like, you're being really mean to your sister right now. You know, like, she actually did go through some. Yeah. So, like, let me tell you about that. And then that's when my sister reached out to me and was like, oh, my God.

[A]

Okay, so. And then when she reached out, it was like. So she was. Then she was kind of like, yeah,

[B]

I think that it very much hit her, like, gotcha. And that's when she realized, like, we've talked about it, like, oh, my God, like, why am I hurting her more? You know, like, even if I have true feelings for this person or we have this good connection, you know, this is my sister, you know, like, damn. Like, let me take a step back here, you know? And I think that it did kind of hit her that, like, oh, she did kind of try to disclose when we were children, and it kind of all started to connect. Like, all the pieces started to connect for my older sister. And she dealt with a lot of shame and a lot of, you know, grief and pain for blaming herself, even though she shouldn't have at all. And then that is when really I started to just kind of tell everyone. Like, everyone Just kind of started to know. And even that it was my stepdad and my mom, and I didn't really care to keep it private anymore besides out of my family.

[A]

And you were still living with them, right?

[B]

Yeah. And, I mean, I kind of lived with them on and off.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like, I would go to, like, a boyfriend's house that was older than me and live there for a few months, or I lived with my first love, Anna, for years, like, with her and her family. And then she moved in with me and lived with me for a while because I didn't want to be there alone. Yeah. I never wanted to be there. I feel like from the age of probably about 12, I was trying to find ways to get out of the house.

[A]

And then I'm assuming when you got to the point where you were more openly sharing it, I'm sure the ab. Did the abuse still continue? Like, verb. Verbally? Like, the emotional abuse?

[B]

It just. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I think it made it worse. Like, all the abuse that I went through in the house, it, like, didn't make sense to me because my mom knew, like, she knew what her husband was doing to me the entire time she parched, partaked in it the very first time that I was sexually abused. So for me, it was like, you know, everything that I've gone through, and you continue to abuse me. I do not understand this. So that's when I started to get very angry and very resentful towards her, and it was very hard to have a relationship with her because I did love my mom. I still do. I love her. I f. I try to find reasons for why she did what she did all the time. I'm trying to rationalize it all the time, because I do still love her, but it's. I don't think that she loved me. I don't think that she is capable of loving, like, truly. I don't. I think something is off. That is the only way that I can rationalize mothers doing this.

[A]

If she was abused by her mom,

[B]

I know that she had a bad childhood.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But she's very anti talking about anything or even being honest to a therapist. I don't think she's ever gotten that far in her life.

[A]

And sometimes I feel like, you know, if you're already in a vulnerable, weak state, and then you meet somebody, you know, like your stepdad, that is into even worse.

[B]

Yes. And it's almost like, definitely believe that, because my mom was a stripper when she met my stepdad, so she was stripping in Portland Oregon. And then he was there as a customer. Like that's how they met. That's already not. I didn't even think you were supposed to date your clients. I didn't think that was a thing. And then two months later, I think it was, I could even be giving them more time. They were moved in together and you know, like, I think she moved him into her place.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And. Cause she's the one who had the kids, you know, so before I knew it, you know, she has her one year old daughter around this unknown man that she doesn't even know that she met in a environment of sex and sexualizing women. And you brought him in the house. And it wasn't just she brought him in the house. Now he's watching me every night when she goes to work. And it was really weird. Like I had, I have vague memories when I was young, you know, younger than five. And I always felt unsafe. Like that's what the feeling is when I think back to those memories. But I can't like pinpoint exactly what was going on. But like even things that my mom would say were weird. Like, you know how you, like, you grow up and like you'll hear like little stories about what kind of kid you were. Well, the things that my mom always said just were weird. Like she would say every time I, Paul would come home, your stepdad, and you can put his name too, it's all public. Every time Paul would come home, you would cry. Well, why is that?

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's weird. Like just like little weird remarks like that. Like, why is your daughter screaming and crying every time this strange man comes home? You know, like these are signs of sexual abuse. These are signs of trauma that she's just acting like is another story to tell, you know, and it's just strange. Or like every time I'd come home from my grandma's house, I'd freak out. Never want to leave my grandma's house. You know, even then, like, this is my paternal grandma, my dad's mom. Even then if she were taught she would think, why is she screaming and acting this way when she goes home? What's going on? But I don't know if they were just, you know, willingly ignorant or what it was, but they didn't ever ask those questions.

[A]

I think the issue too is because these topics are so taboo and people are so hush hush about it that you just look at it as like, oh, she's just a kid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or she's going through it right now, you know, like, yeah, whatever. It Might be, but they don't. We're not taught. Maybe more so now, but we weren't taught to look at those as red flags or like investigate ourselves of why is she acting that way? Or is something going on? You know, it's almost like it just wasn't knowledge.

[B]

Like you don't want to believe that anyone you love, you know, a child that you love is going through that.

[A]

Right. Did you have a relationship with your biological dad at all?

[B]

Yeah. So my biological dad, he was in and out of prison my entire childhood. But we. He's currently still serving time right now on a two year sentence. He'll get out in October. Okay, so he has like five months left and that's just kind of the relationship.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

Lots more time on prison calls than time with him in real life. And I'm looking forward to him getting out to hopefully build on our relationship.

[A]

Does he know about everything?

[B]

Yeah, but during my childhood, he was like, kind of like somebody who'd send me cards once in a while. I talk to him. Every memory I have of my dad is great. Like, that is one thing that I'll give him. Like, the memories I have of him are playing, like, dentist at his house and washing green grapes in his fridge, like, out of his fridge. And like going and seeing movies like the Ratatouille and things like that. Like, I absolutely adored my dad as a kid, but I dealt with a lot of resentment because why aren't you here to protect me?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Where are you? Type of deal? I mean, even now, like, I still struggle with resentment towards him in another way. Yeah. Because it's like, well, now I'm going through all this legal stuff. I just really want my dad. Like, sometimes I just cry. Like I just want some parent, you know, like someone I never had that, you know. And then the person that I had was my paternal grandmother. Her name's Jody. And like, almost all the tattoos I have are for her. Like, she was my mom. Like, she was the closest thing to a mom that I ever had. She was somebody who truly loved me unconditionally. Like, lets you mess up, but. But still, that's not cool. Like, you know, puts you back in check. But she passed away when I was 19. And that was like at the start of all of this. Like, the start of me. Like, my family finding out was the start of that wasn't the start of me sharing my story willingly, but it was like when my family started to find out. And that was because I was forced to kind of disclose when I wasn't ready. And that's also another layer of trauma. And that's like the thing that people I don't like, that aren't in my life, they don't really understand, like, what happens behind the scenes. Because I feel like certain survivors and certain people who share their stories focus on the present and some focus on the past. And I focused a lot on the past. So nobody really knew or even knows now, like, what I was really actively going through day to day. They just know, like the past, you know, like my childhood. But, like, nobody knows, like, all the trauma that happened in my marriage and why it led to divorce or like any of these things. But it all roots back to my childhood and the trauma. And it's just like layer after layer of thing after thing, you know, and it just, it starts to take a toll on people.

[A]

Absolutely. And I feel like in every aspect of your life as well. So when you started, when you started openly talking about it and your family knew, how did that change the dynamics when you were kind of living with them on and off? Did you just try to avoid it?

[B]

Really? At the beginning, I really feared, like, for my safety, for my life, for my place, that I could live. Like, I felt like I could be kicked out at any point because I lived under their roof. And then I was sharing these things, things that were true, but they did not want me sharing. You know, it was very scary, nerve wracking. I. When I started posting, I would post things and delete them constantly because I'd get, like, I'd post it and I'd be like, so brave at that moment. And then maybe a few hours passed or the next day and I'd be like, oh, my God, my mom's gonna see this.

[A]

Okay, so you started posting when you were like 19?

[B]

I started posting more when I was 20. 20, 21.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

And like, what I was saying with the, like, the added layer of like having to kind of forced to be just like to disclose when I wasn't ready was I just had really hard time being in that house. Like I said, I was trying to find a way to leave. Starting at 12, around 19, I went through. I don't know what it was. I was just going through a really bad time. I can't even remember. I'm. I dissociated a lot too. So, like, everything is kind of all over. But at that time, I was going through a really hard time and I knew I just didn't want to be there. So I was kind of like trying to be at my grandma's house or be at my aunt and uncle's house. And my aunt and uncle, that is my mom's brother and his girlfriend, who I consider my aunt. She was in my life for a long time, so I just call her that. You know, I was there when she had her. My, you know, cousin. And, like, she's just my aunt. And I was very close to them, and I was staying over there. And my uncle had said something about how, you know, like, stepdads get a bad rap because he's a stepdad. And I was like, well, you know, some stepdads, actually, because I was in a bad place. And, you know, it was always like an internal thing of, like, wanting to share but not knowing how to. And, like, wanting my family to know but being really scared. So I let little things out. But, I mean, everyone knew I hated my stepdad. I would say I would definitely give them that, but they didn't know why. They thought it was just, like, a typical thing. I basically told them that. And then I had told my aunt a little bit more about how, like, yeah, I'm going through, like, some stuff, you know, like, in my childhood, a lot of bad stuff happened. Whatever I wasn't really sharing. Exactly. And then she told my uncle, and then they woke me up at, like, 4 in the morning when I was sleeping. Like, tap me. Come on, let's go in the garage. Like, smoke a cigarette. Come on. Come on. So they take me out there, and then they just kind of start nailing me with questions. And I, like, I'm woken up out of a sleep for this. You know, it's like, what's going on at home? You need to tell us, like, all these questions. Just. Just back to back to back to back to back. And I remember sitting there for a long time, smoking, like, not really knowing how to tell them, you know, like, just very upset. Kind of like already mad at my aunt, already defensive, because I'm like, well, why would you tell my. Okay. You know, I'm just. This is how I am. Like, this is how my brain worked at that time. So I'm already, like, kind of defensive, on high alert. But then I just kind of let it all, like, okay, you guys want to know so bad. Like, here you guys go. Then I just laid it all out, and they were fine with everything I had said. At first, everything was all good, like, okay. But then they started telling me what to do. Like, you're gonna report? Or like, this is what we want you to do. Kind of like, guiding me to, like, tell me what to do. And everything was fine until they found out my mom was involved. And then the energy in the room shifted. Like the garage wasn't the same anymore. It was more like, what do you mean my sister was involved in this? Like, no. And like, kind of like not. Not believing me, not like wanting to understand that it wasn't just Paul. Like, this is a lot deeper. And then it went into like, well, no. Your mom knows With Plan B Emergency

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One step to learn more Use as directed Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with ebglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema after an initial four months, month or longer dosing phase. About 4 in 10 people taking EPGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing. MGLIS Lebricizumab LBKZ a 250mg 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or top topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be Severe Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebglis before starting ebglis. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about ebglis and visit eglis.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. What do you mean my mom knows? You know, like they started like getting very angry and upset and then he's like, I'm gonna tell your Grandpa. And then it just becomes this whole blown up thing. I remember shaking and being so upset and just crying to them and saying, please don't tell anyone, don't report it. Because they were kind of very worried about my siblings. Understandable, Completely understandable. So making a call to CPS or dhs, you know, like the people who help kids, whatever, that's fine. I understand that because you're, you know, a mandated reporter or whatever it is you think you need to do to protect the kids in the house or at least make sure they're not being abused. Okay. But they took it a step further and they took it to the police and basically made a whole police report against my will at this time. I am 19 and I'm not a child, you know, so this is very traumatic. So. And I am living in their house, my abuser's house, and no one's offered me a place to live. No one said, hey, while you do all of this and we blow up your whole life, we'll let you come and live with us while you figure it out. Or we'll even get you a hotel room or anything to just offer me some safety net. It was like, no, we're blow up your whole life. We're going to report, we're going to send DHS to your house and then we're going to expect you to go home and sleep there at night and live there and coexist with those people. Like, it was beyond traumatic. Like, I did not want to go upstairs. I did not want to face my mom. I did not want to face them at all. And that is what turned into me being angry. I was so angry. I did not care about reporting anymore. I did not care about anything that I went through anymore. I just wanted to nobody to do anything right anymore. Like, I had to make my own decisions. And that didn't happen. And I wasn't allowed that. So I became very, very angry, as if I wasn't already angry before.

[A]

Right. And I think the whole thing is, what they didn't clearly realize is that the whole situation you went through, you had no control.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then you tell them or you confided in her and then it blows up to this. And then by them reporting without your consent, you have no control again.

[B]

Yes. And it became something I could not handle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I was never ready to report. And that is why I'm a very strong advocate for. You don't need to report. Like, you don't unless you truly want to. And I don't even Think you should report if you are alone. Like if you do not have a support like network behind you, it is a very traumatic thing to do. So I mean if you think you can do it by yourself, sure, do it if that's what you need to do. But I would definitely suggest having support. Like when I went into it I had support and then it's kind of dwindled down. It is very hard to go through like significantly. That's when you want to do it. So imagine somebody forcing you when you're not ready. Like it was, I mean just like living in survival constantly. My nervous system was on high alert always. And I just started to kind of recant everything. Like I lied about it. Nope, none of that was true. Like just forget it like you said, just forget it.

[A]

Did the police end up coming to the house?

[B]

So that's the thing. Like the CPS ended up coming and the cops ended up, I think calling my parents at that time and tried to get them like for an like an interview and they wouldn't do the interview or maybe they did, I don't know. Because at this time I believe I took my stuff and I like went to my grandma's house or something. I was very scared to be there. So I was kind of all over the place. That's when CPS got involved and they took my siblings away for like 10 days to do this whole investigation. But my siblings were with my grandmother that knew that I was being sexually abused during childhood. She did nothing. You know, like it just didn't make sense even how CPS worked. And then my mom was just blaming me. Like she would just text me like, you've ruined my whole life. You're gonna get my house taken away. I'm going to lose everything because of you. Like that's what it was. Like that's what she was saying like verbatim. Like and she was just very angry with me. Not with anything that she did that led to this outcome or anything like that. She was just mad at me, which made me even more upset because at that time I was just trying to people, please. Like I just wanted my mom to be happy. I wanted my family to be happy. I didn't even really want to get her involved. Like my mom. I didn't want anybody to really even know that she was a part of it. I kind of kept that hush hush for a long time. Like even through therapy. It took me multiple therapy sessions before I finally said like, oh yeah, by the way, like my mom knew that all of this was going on. And that's such, like a deep. Like that is such a deep hurt when your own mother can do something like that to you. And I just. I just had no control during the whole entire process of the. Them reporting against my will and everything. So I ended up going silent again. I just went silent. I didn't want to talk about it anymore. I didn't want to deal with it anymore. And that was probably from the end of, like, 2018, the beginning of 2019 to February 2021. That is when I broke. Like, I just couldn't live with these people anymore. I couldn't do it anymore. I just couldn't. And during the first reporting, like, when my aunt and uncle made the report, I actually called the detectives, and nobody really knows that. I didn't even tell my mom the truth. I didn't tell anybody the truth. I told them that they reached out to me to do an interview, but reality is that I called them in 2019 and I said, can I sit down with you guys and talk to you about, like, my aunt reporting? Like, what is going. Like, what is. You know, everyone's talking to everybody, but nobody's talking to me, and I'm the victim here, you know. So I ended up calling the detective, and he's now retired. So many years have passed. But I talked to him, and at the time, he basically told. I told him, like, yeah, like, this happened, like, in the interview room. I. I had my mom drive me down there. I lied and I said, oh, yeah, they're making me do this, you know, and it was all voluntarily. She drops me off at the police station in. In Rainier, Oregon. I made him drive all the way out from Portland a whole hour to meet me, just to tell him I'm not reporting, just to tell him that. But I asked him, like, what would happen if I don't, like, what's going to happen if I do, like, and kind of just ask him questions as I am legally allowed to do. And he basically explained it to me as, like, well, we have a lot of history. Like, we've done a lot more research, and we have a lot more understanding about sexual abuse, especially. Especially historical sexual abuse. And, like, this should be on you. Like, when you want to report, we're here and we'll listen, but if you're not ready for it, don't do it. He says, what it sounds like is your family's just taking your life like a can, just kicking it down the road and acting like it's like, you know, in Their control. And that's not fair to you. You know, like, it's your life. You live with these people. He told me he's like, so maybe you should figure out not how to live with those people first. And then, you know, when you're ready, come and talk to us. But you know, like, we're here and unfortunately it is going to sit on this shelf and it's going to start counting down your statute of limitations now because she reported against your will. But we are here. So I was like, okay, okay, cool. So that's done. So I'm like, I'm not reporting. You know, I'm not in this state of mind. I don't want to do that. But now I have like this anger towards my aunt and uncle for doing that to me. Like, I'm. I'm out for blood. Like, I'm angry.

[A]

Well, also the fact that their whole demeanor changed when.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They found out your mom was involved.

[B]

Yes. And their whole demeanor changed when they were in control.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what I've realized with a lot of my family members. Like, it was like, we're here to support you as long as you do what we want. But as soon as you do what you want or you tell us. Actually, I'm not in the place to do that right now. Not that I'm not in the place to do it ever, but I'm not in the place to do it right now because I just cannot. They're just like a big fuck you. Like, oh, well, you don't wanna report your abuser. Well, then maybe you want it to be abused. Like that type of stuff. Like really, really horrible stuff that hit. It's low. Like, that's how low my aunt would go. Like you spread your legs to your family members type stuff. Like crazy. And it was all because I didn't report. So I must be protecting them. Right. When in reality I was just scared. Like, I was so beyond scared. I didn't know how to go about it. Like, I didn't know really where I was going to live. I mean, that's really what it came down to. It came down to the fact that my parents financially trapped to me, like I was financially dependent on them as an adult and they, they did it on purpose. It was another form of abuse that happened in the house. And it, it just has. I mean, it shows, even with my other siblings. Like, my mom is a person who holds her kids back. Like, that's just what she does. She doesn't want you to be better. Than her. And I don't think my stepdad wants people to be better than him either. Like, all of us. Us, they wanted us to stay below

[A]

them, going through reporting something. First of all, like you said, what's gonna happen? There's a chance. You do all of this, and then nothing happens from it. And also just the fact of having to tell it over and over and report. It's a lot.

[B]

Yes. And you have to be ready. Brainwashed, too.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like, I was so brainwashed into believing that, like, if I did this, I was hurting my mom. If I did this, I wouldn't see my siblings again. You know, Like, I truly believed these things. So I struggled with letting it go. Like, whatever happens, happens. It's not my fault. And I got to that point, and I've reached that point now. But it took years of really going to therapy and finding other supports that weren't my family. And without that, I wouldn't have reported. And that's what my family fails to realize. Like, I didn't just randomly wake up one day and get the strength. Like, I had to have support. I had to have a community of people online. I had to have people telling me, like, even if nothing happens, you still want to report. Right. So just go for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, do it. What really put me over, like, getting over it was my siblings coming to me, both of them. And I had for years without actual acknowledging it, without realizing it. I had put a lot on them. Like, a lot. And I felt like I was taking care of them. But in turn, I definitely made it feel like the reason why I am the way I am, or the reason I can't rapport or the reason why I'm going through all of this is because of you guys. Because I need to keep your family together. I want you to have a family. I want you guys to have your dad. But I didn't realize in turn that was making them resent me because it was like, if you want to do something, go and do it. Stop blaming me. Like, stop saying that I'm the reason for not reporting. Like, just do it, you know, and that they kind of got fed up. So they came to me and they said, if you want to report, report. Like, stop acting like it's going to ruin our life or that we're not going to see our family again. Then it's the consequences of what they did. Then my little sister and my brother, and at the time, my brother's girlfriend, they were both standing on the porch and they said all of that and something in my head clicked. It was like, you know, I. They're right. Like, I'm not. Like, I'm not helping anyone here. Like, I'm just. There's no perfect time to report. And that's what I needed to realize because it was. I'll report once, once my brother's 18. And then it was all report once my sister's 18. Then it's like, well, I'll report once my sister leaves the house. You know, like, yeah, it's always going to change. Like, something is always going to be in the way. So I just got to the point where I was like, you know, it's probably time. I still wasn't ready to report, but it was time to talk about it. You know, it was time to really share it more.

[A]

You know, you start therapy before you started sharing it online.

[B]

Yeah. So I had actually started therapy because of an attempt on my life. So when I was, like, 16, I made an attempt because of all the trauma I had gone through. And. And at the time, I was going through some sort of breakup, and it just. It put me over the edge. And I ended up taking some medication and I ended up getting taken to the hospital. And at that time, you know, I was self. Aware. I've been self aware the entire time that I need help. So I told, like, the social worker there that my mom's not letting me go to therapy. And that was the truth. Like, I. Whether she wants to say that that's the truth or not, it is, because I would go to her and I would say, like, I need help. Like, I really need help. Like, I want to. To die. Like, I don't want to be here anymore. Like, everything your husband did to me, like, I need help. Like, truly. And she'd say, like, you can't tell anyone. If you want to talk to somebody, go talk to your grandma about it. That's how I found out that my grandma even knew. Like, she had known for years, and I never knew she knew until my mom was like, oh, just go and talk to her. Don't talk to a therapist. So I. During that appointment, I said, you know, my mom is refusing to let me go, but I need to go. Like, I need to. So she put it in the report, basically, like, I was required, like, if they were going to release me from the hospital, I had to go to. I had to find some sort of treatment and go to therapy. So I started therapy, I would say, right at the end of being 16, the beginning of 17, and the first few sessions Were just kind of figuring me out, but I didn't want to disclose, like, at all. And I remember I told him that I was sexually abused and I had gone through all this stuff, but because of statute, because of mandated reporting, I wasn't gonna tell him who. That's what I told him.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And he goes, okay, like. Right. And then he kind of, like, would pry, you know, like, was it a family member? And things like that. And I just vaguely, you know, like, this is what I went through. But, you know, I'm not telling you until I'm 18 type of deal. Because I knew, like, my mom hadn't instilled it in me. Like, if you tell people this, you're. You're never going to see your siblings again. Like, my stepdad and my mom made that clear. So I was very fearful of any adult, any counselors, teachers, any. Any adults. I didn't want anything to do with him. I didn't want to tell him anything. That kind of went on for a while of me just not telling him. And then I thought I was 18, like, being an adult now, But I pulled my therapy records and I didn't even wait until I was 18. I had told him, like, this is what happened with my stepdad and all of this stuff. But there was a report made, and, you know, like, you know, I kind of, like, grazed over it and stuff. And I know that he didn't mandate report. He didn't report it because he. I think he knew, like, he trusted that my siblings weren't being abused and that it was like, historical stuff. So he let me kind of just share and disclose. And, I mean, he's probably a key witness. And, like, his therapy notes have really helped my case.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because he took very intensive, like, thorough notes of every session.

[A]

Did it help sharing all of that with him?

[B]

It did, but it also started to, like, just bring up more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I think that it was easier to push it all away and have family game nights and have a mom, even if she was trash, and just kind of shove it all down. That was easier, like, genuinely, like, losing everything and having to fight for justice and all that. That is the difficult route. But it was the right route. Like, it was the route that I needed for true healing. That was just avoidance. So that's why it was easier sharing it. I would say it's like a up and down type of thing. So it will help and then it will, like, bring up a lot more feelings and then. Yeah, but, like, through the process of sharing my story, it has definitely helped, but I feel like not even so much in, like, telling it. It's helped more in, like, getting the feedback back from other people. Like, the acknowledgement of, like, what you went through is tough, but, like, you're still here. Like, so just keep going. Like, that's the kind of stuff that I needed because I didn't ever hear that growing up. It was more like, you haven't gone through shit. It's not that big of a deal. Shove it under the rug, you know, like, let's move on. And I think that that's why I struggled with a lot of internalized victim blaming and a lot of putting my feelings onto other survivors and a lot of, like, downplaying other people's stuff because I downplayed my own. Like, if this horrible stuff with animals and, you know, true torture is so little to me, you know, like, everyone else's issues were tiny. Like, you were abused. Like, come on, girl. Like, what do you mean? You know? And, like, that was. That's the part that made me a bad person, a bad friend, you know, a bad. Just not a good advocate, not somebody who should even really be online sharing their story. Because I was so broken, so hurt, and everyone was just, like, a target, and nobody was actually targeting me, but I felt like it because it's like my mom made me downplay everything for so long, and then I started doing it myself, and it's just. It became a pattern, and it. It carried on for, I would say, until, like, the last two years have. When I've been able to truly find, like, my footing on who I am as a person and not just live in that identity.

[A]

And then. Are you still currently seeing that therapist?

[B]

No, I stopped seeing my therapist probably, like, maybe a year, two years after.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Maybe even less. I was. I haven't had, like, the best, like, insurance and just, like, things like that have always, like, made it really difficult.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also just mental health, like, just, I. You think you're okay, so I don't need a therapist, you know? And then you get busy with life, and then you realize you hit a low again, and you're like, man, maybe I should have never stopped seeing that therapist, you know? But I started regularly seeing a therapist, like, on and off throughout my life, and I never stopped, like, seeing. I think the longest I've gone without seeing a therapist is probably a year since I've been, you know, 16. So I'm like. I'm not currently seeing a therapist right now, but I'm doing group therapy. So I Go and do group therapy twice a month. And that's good for me right now because it's a lot like I was going to therapy twice a week, and that was just too much because I have this trial and all this stuff also. And I think that for survivors, I think a good thing to realize is that healing and the modems of healing are like, you're gonna need more support during certain times in your life, and you don't always need therapy, but it's there when you need to go back to it.

[A]

And I like the point that you made about, like, it goes through waves, you know, you might have, and you kind of just have to listen to what you need at that time. Since you started sharing your story, have you had a good amount of people reach out and say that they've been through things similar?

[B]

Yeah. So since I shared my story, especially the taboo stuff, I think that that brings people to my page specifically, and that's what. What resonates with a lot of people is that I do share things that maybe people are less likely to talk about. So I feel like I've had a lot of private messages of people who maybe are not ready to share. I mean, hundreds, if not thousands of messages. And I mean, I don't post regularly, but I'm still constantly getting messages about old videos or, you know, you've really changed my life. And not only, like, people that I don't know, but also people I know. Like, people that were maybe really mean to me in school and things like that, reaching out and. And thinking, like, you know, I'm going to raise my kids differently. You know, I'm really sorry that maybe I was a bully because I didn't realize that, like, everyone's going through something, you know, and I'm gonna teach my kids differently kindness, you know. So I'm really glad that I came across your page and things like that. And I really do care about the animal sexual abuse stuff. Like me posting about that has really, like, that's basically how I grew my entire platform. Like, most of my most liked videos and my most viewed videos are about that. And the comments are saddening. Like, I didn't realize how many people had gone through it until I really did start to post it. And not only post it, but, like, have the videos go viral. Like, it's just comment after comment of people saying, you know, like, I was going to take this to the grave, like, type comments. And those are the ones that really like, making me continue to post about it, even if I get Horrible messages about whatever type of person I am. And all the hate that you get with posting about taboo topics. It makes it worth it because I know that everyone else was like me at one point. Like, they really do feel completely alone. And I know now that it's easier to find resources online now because of me. You know, because of me sharing and then other survivors alike sharing their story. You know, I can actually scroll on my for you page and come across people talking about it now. Yeah, and that's big. You know, like, I had somebody who is an advocate in the community create a whole entire fact, fact sheet about animal child sexual abuse and, you know, share it to her platform, you know, for everybody to print it out for free. You know, like these things are like, they make a huge impact because, like, I sat there for years thinking, I'm so alone in this. I'm disgusting. Nobody's ever gone through this typing online, couldn't find the right verbiage. And that's really what it is. It's just I did not have the right verbiage for what I had gone through because it's wrong. Like, it's wrong. That's why I call it animal child sexual abuse, because it's like. Like date rape. You know, like you're using a modem to abuse somebody. So it's animal sexual abuse. Like, that's what you are doing. What people would refer to it as is forced bestiality or animal rape or all of these terms that I didn't know, like, in my head, and I don't think that they're accurate. Like animal rape is accurate, but. But forced bestiality is not, because bestiality, by the definition that everybody knows is being attracted to an animal, having sexual relations with an animal is the more accurate definition. But as a society, we have made it clear that somebody who's into bestiality is voluntarily doing that. It is consensual. It's a consensual act. So when somebody is saying forced bestiality, it gets confusing because it's like, no, I didn't do that. I wasn't. I'm not attracted to any animal that was forced on me as an object that was sexually abusing me, you know, as like a tool would, you know, it's just a way that somebody sexually abuses you. And if you don't have the right verbiage for it, it gets confusing. And you can. Like, it minimizes what people have gone through. And it. It's just. It's important that people can just look something up and like, find it just like that, you know, like, oh, I'm not alone. Or go to a therapy office and be able to say like, this is what happened to me. And not have every therapist look at you. Like, I don't. I've never heard of that in my life. Right.

[A]

Like, you have 10 heads.

[B]

I have never heard of that. And that is another thing that I experienced. Like, I didn't want to have to keep going into therapy offices and having to educate them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. And having to tell them, like, I don't really know if I'm even comfortable with you being my therapist because I don't even know if you're comfortable talking about this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because this is very heavy.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, like, I would have to like, constantly be doing that. And that's another thing. Like, I love those comments, like when I get comments from therapists or teachers or things like that that say, I never would have thought of this. I didn't know that this existed. Thank you for bringing this to my attention because it truly does make a huge difference, you know, and it's occasion. It's even like things like, you know, things that we wouldn't really think that are like a trigger. Like somebody who gets made fun of for being afraid of an animal. Like, you don't know why it might not be that they got ran down by the street, they got bit. It could be something much deeper. So that's why we should just maybe pause and realize that people have fears and they have triggers and stuff for reasons. And we don't need to question them, we don't need to pry. And that's another thing that I did with my humor, like, doesn't equal, like, harm playlist on my TikTok. And it really, it. It's a basically about how, like, we can be humorous and we can be funny without harming people. And that's where we go into, like, the bestiality jokes and having dogs, you know, lick your genitals with peanut butter and all these, like, things that everybody has heard. And it's so hehe ha ha. But when you are somebody who's gone through it, that's your trauma. Being put on display on TV for everybody or on the comedy sets. Yeah. And everybody's just ha ha ha. And they might not even be laughing because they think it's funny. I don't really think it is. I think they're laughing more of like, you know, like, wow factor. Like, oh, that's like, gross. Like, ew, they're uncomfortable kind of laugh that's not the true humor that we should be tapping into as a society. Like trauma. That's what we want to make humorous. Like abuse of the most vulnerable too, because animals can't fight back. So it's like, oh, well, it's just a dog or it's just this. That's not though. Like, it's so much deeper than that. And that's why I really do, like. Like that pot, like that playlist that I created. Because it really does. Like, people needed to realize that and that it's like whatever that one saying is, like impact versus, you know, whatever. It's the. Your intent versus the impact. Like you might not intend to harm people, but you are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they don't. You know, people need to see that and truly get it. I mean, I'm triggered constantly. Really healed. Like, I'm a very healed person. I openly talk about these things online. You know, like, I'm very, you know, open about the sexual abuse I went through with. With the animal. But even when it pops up and things like that pop up, I still get triggered because it's like, why are you guys not realizing that this is, like, serious? Yeah. Like, it hurts, like, my heart to know that, like, it's so trivialized in our society.

[A]

It's crazy and so sickening. And I think that, you know, no matter what the topic is, that it just all goes back to the importance of it being talked about in these types of settings. Because there's so many other settings that are looked at. They look at it as humorous.

[B]

Definitely. And I think that it's also important to like, as a survivor, if you have the courage to talk about it, because people use your voice, you know, they're like, oh, well, you know, whatever. But when you've actually gone through it and you're like, hey, like, let me tell you where this is coming from.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then people are like, oh, also, like,

[A]

the more kind we are, the more willing people will be to share.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If everything's minimized and made a joke, people aren't going to want to share.

[B]

Right. And then abusers can hide behind it too.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And they can just make like, little hehe haha jokes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But they're actually abusers. So, like, that's. That's a thing that I also have witnessed. And that's why I have kind of spread more awareness about that. Because my stepdad was a person who everyone in the house knew. Everyone in the house knew that he was into animals. Everyone, all of his kids, my mom, everyone knew it was a running joke in the family. You know, like he was a creep, you know, like he watched Bestiality. He got caught by my mom watching that on his history. And then my mom said some horrible things to him and then all of us kids knew. And then there was a movie, Jay and Silent Bob, that everybody had watched in the house. My mom was always letting us watch R rated movies. So there's a scene in that movie that like throws this guy out of the van and they call him a sheep fucker because he is gonna sleep with the sheeps or whatever. You know, more bestiality jokes that shouldn't exist in tv. And. And I being the angry kid I am that knows what he has done, you know, that was his nickname. Like, I would call him that all the time. Like all the time my stepsister would call him that at family get togethers we would call him that, you know, and he would watch this type of media, you know, he thought it was so funny. He would make jokes all the time about all this weird stuff, you know, and it was funny to him. So I'm thinking, well, well, it's hard not to like kind of step back and be like, well, if you're somebody who thinks that's funny, what kind of person are you, like, truly behind closed doors, what kind of stuff are you into if you think this stuff is funny? Because the only person I know who thought this stuff was funny is a monster. So, like, if you don't want to be put in the category of the people who are truly doing that stuff, why are you going to sit alongside them and laugh?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it makes you just kind of just. Just. You're just as bad.

[A]

Right? Absolutely. And then what, at what point did you decide? Because you ended up reporting. Right. So when was that? A couple years ago?

[B]

Yeah. So that was in December of 2023.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And before that, in 2021, I made a post on Facebook where all my family is.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, because that's where, you know, most of your family's at. So I made a post that said, from these years to these years, I was sexually abused by my parents. And they've, you know, made me keep it private and secret. You know, it's not helping anything. So here I am telling my story finally, so that I can really, you know, whatever. And then a bunch of my family commented on it and were just, you know, blown away and surprised and all of that. And then after that, that's when I started posting on TikTok more regularly through all of that I met my ex wife and we met in 2020 and at the time I was living with my parents and so we met and so all this is going on while like I decided to post on Facebook while I'm with my ex wife. And then we end up at some point moving out and getting our own house. Because during the time that I had posted on TikTok and stuff, my. A private investigation was hired at my stepdad's work. They did a whole investigation. They contacted me, I told them the truth about everything that had happened to me and they, they let him go at first, they demoted him. Then a second investigation was open later on, they completely like fired him. But because of that, you know, we had to leave their house. They couldn't afford their rent, you know, they had to leave. So we ended up leaving and getting our own house. And that gave me more time to like, clear my head.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, because I was finally away from them, which was like the first time in forever that I had truly like taken time away. And through that time I realized like, yeah, reporting is something I'm going to do, but I don't know when. And I was kind of just like kind of feeling it out, kind of figuring. Figuring out when the right time was. There's no perfect time. And that is when like my siblings told me, you know, like, just do it. Like, we're so tired of this. And then I kind of faced like, yeah, I'm going to do this. Like at some point or another, I'm going to do this. And during that private investigation through the, through my. He worked through the carpenter's union. So it was really big. Like he was a repertoire, like a rep. Like he was a very big head person. He made good money and he was in the carpenter's union for years. So it was a very big deal. So after all of that, the lawyers, like on the union contacted me along with the private investigator to tell me that they were firing him to like, give me a heads up. And like, he's going to be upset at you most likely because you're going to all this. Yeah. So just so you know. And then one of the lawyers told me over the phone, they said that, I don't know, like, I'm not trying to tell you what to do or anything, but this. He's cold. Like, he just looks at me so cold. Like, like he, he never did this. Like, he's just looking at me, like, just lying.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, like, and we, we believe you. So like, I'm not Trying to tell you what to do. But I, I don't think that he's a good guy. I would report it. Like, that's what he told me. He goes, like, he's literally sitting here telling me that you lied. And that just put me over the edge. Because throughout all of the years, my stepdad admitted it. You know, like, if I wanted him to talk about it or, you know, whatever, he would say, like, yeah, and we would just talk about it. Like, it was a very open thing in the family. It just didn't make sense. Like, no, because behind closed doors you say that I'm a liar. So let's find out who's really a liar. Like, that's kind of where I was at. And I, I, he needed to prove his innocence. If he wanted to go around saying that I was a liar, I was done. I was so done. I just couldn't tell any more family members that I had lied about it anymore. I wasn't going to tell any private investigator that all my tiktoks were lies. Like, that's crazy because that's not true.

[A]

He stripped, I mean, they both, they, they stripped so much of your life away, you know, and, and that's not even to be like, oh, you deserve this because of that. But that's just the reality of it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, when you commit crimes, there's consequences to those crimes. When you speed on the road, you get a ticket, you know, like, when you sexually abuse kids, there needs to be true consequences, and they should not be 26 years later.

[A]

And what, you're gonna openly talk about it at home, but then when it affects you and your money, then it's a lie.

[B]

Right. When it affects how you look, yeah, it's all a lie. But he never took into consideration how crazy that makes me look. If I'm going on tick tock for years talking about all this stuff that didn't happen, what type of person am I? And he really did try and get me to lie to that private investigator. Like, he said, I don't want to lose my job, you know, like the whole guilt trip thing, you know, And I, you know, I played it, oh, I'm not going to tell her anything, you know, I'll admit it, you know, whatever. I'll do whatever you need, because that's fear. You know, I was never brave enough to be like, yeah, I'm going to report your ass. I would never tell him that. I was so scared of just everything. I mean, my medical insurance was through them. I still was tied to them. So I was very scared. But like I said, just something in my head snapped. And even after I had reported, like when I realized, oh, I made the call, like, there's no going back now. I mean there was going back, but I had already done it. Like it was done. Like it took a lot for me to just sit there. Like I remember I could not sleep right or eat right or anything for at least two weeks because I was that like so much anxiety, so much anticipation waiting for these detectives to reach out to me. Because the cop made it very clear they were going forward with what, like what I had told him was mind boggling. He was telling the detectives, you know, and they were getting on it. So it was just very scary for me. So like I was sitting on the toilet having like bad, you know, I was, my stomach was messed up for weeks and it just continued to just be so stressful until I really like started to kind of the pieces started to fall into place. But I reported In December of 2023, right after I like the day after I got off the phone with that lawyer that said, oh, he's horrible. He's, he's lying. He says you're a liar. So it was already in the afternoon. I had decided, I'm calling tomorrow. My ex wife was gone. Like she wasn't even home. And I said, I'm gonna make the report. So I didn't really know how to go about it, but I had an idea of like, what to do. So like there's multiple ways you could do it. You go down to the police station. You know, I was told a bunch of different things, but I didn't really know for sure. So I called the non emergency number in my town. They told me to call the non emergency number for like where it happened. So I called the non emergency in the town that it happened and they, the dispatch obviously answered first. And then she told like, asked me what I wanted or like what I was calling for. And I told her that I needed to talk to a cop to report historical child sexual abuse. And she said, oh, okay, sounds good. And then I would say probably like three hours later, I was sitting there waiting and waiting. The cop finally called me and he told me to just basically tell him everything that happened. And that's extremely difficult. I didn't know where to start. My story was all over the place. Just like, there was no end, no beginning, it was just everywhere. But he got as much information as he needed. And then he told me, you have to call the other city that you lived in and report it again.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

All of the stuff that happened in the other city, I don't want to hear any of that. Just tell me what happened in this city and then call and I was like, okay. So I get off the phone with him, I'm exhausted at this point and I have to make another report. So I decided to do that the next day. And I. So my ex wife was home and she was actually. I have clips of me like reporting, which is like cool to look back on now and see how much growth I have, you know, reached. I was shaking and I was just so scared. But I ended up making that call. And that's kind of the call to actually like put everything together. Because a lot of the abuse happened in Gresham, Oregon, which like was the city over from Portland. So the way that they do it, it's like whatever. You have to tell the story in each place.

[A]

And I'm sure each place handles things like that very differently.

[B]

Yes. Some of them even don't even have victim, you know, like advocates. Like this one city didn't and then this city did. So I was a very strong self advocate at this time. I had already been posting, you know, I was, I was 23, about to be 24. So I told them, I am not doing that. I'm not going down to your town and telling you and I'm not going down there and telling you. I'm gonna tell it one time. You guys can come together and sit next to each other and do what you gotta do. I'm not doing that.

[A]

And that's something that I think probably so many victims struggle with and they end up not telling their story because they don't want to have to keep telling it and telling.

[B]

Well, because you've already had to tell the cop. Yeah, on the phone I had to tell the cop again. You know, everything that happened in Gresham. And then, then you have to go and tell the detectives. But you tell yourself no one wants your college era band tees. But on Depop, people are searching for exactly what you've got. You once paid a small fortune for them at merch stands. Now a teenager who calls them vintage will offer that same small fortune back. Sell them easily on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. Who knew your questionable music taste will be a money making machine. Your style can make you cash start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste. Not one, now two. Like I was so over it. I was like, I'VE already told my story twice. Now you're wanting me to tell it twice again. Like, I'm not doing that. Can you just watch my TikTok, please? Like, just notes. Just watch. Just watch it. Like, I don't have time for this. So I end up having them meet up together, which they had to coordinate it with themselves. You know, I wasn't dealing with none of that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So they ended up coming together, and through whatever investigation, everything that they did, they decided to just kind of, like, tie it all to Portland. So it's not Gresham's case, it's Portland's case, which is fine because they give me an advocate and everything. So Portland took over the whole case, and they're basically doing it, like, from the ages where I lived there and kind of like, whatever. I don't know how they're doing it, but they made it work into where it's just one case. And then there's still the case that my aunt opened, you know, sitting there, too. It's like, they'll put, like, what other cases are attached to this one, and there's, like, a bunch. There's even a federal case that was open just to make sure that he wasn't doing anything. Anything like federal crimes, you know? So it's a. It's a lot that goes into it. And when I went and told my story to the detectives, I had to drive down there and tell them, and it took hours. I would say probably nine hours of my time. Like, just. Because they need to know every detail. Yeah, every single detail. They need to know every witness, any childhood friend that you've ever told. I mean, it goes on forever. I mean, when you've been abused once, it takes a lot to explain it, let alone as many times as I was. So I'm trying to explain all of this. And by the time it all ends, they think they have about, like, six charges that they can move forward with that they were going to present to the DA So they get their case together. That takes about a year, and then it takes them probably another year or six months to present it to the D.A. geez. Yeah. And by the time it's presented to the DA I mean, I'm angry. So during this whole time, I'm, like, trying to get answers from my mom and trying to just kind of piece together everything that happened, because I know, like, what's going on. Like, I'm gonna report, and obviously my parents know that I have reported at this point, so my mom is, like, very angry, you know, Like, I start getting stipulations like, oh, you can't come to the house unless it's 6pm and I'm there. Like all kinds of weird stuff and just really strange stuff like her saying, like acting one way and then saying another thing like, oh, you know, like, do what you need to do to heal, but then don't do anything you needed to heal actually, because that's going to impact my life, you know. So I at that point became very, very angry at my mom and started like texting her a lot and just freaking out like all the time. Like, why wouldn't you be a good mom? I just messaged her at five in the morning and just be like, just good morning. Just wanted to remind you that you're a crap mom. You know, like just stuff like that. And that catapulted into me, like having charges pressed against me by my mom. She put a protective order against me and then I broke that protective order and texted my little sister. So like, while I'm going through all of this, I'm going through other stuff like as it's going on, which is leading to me being more stressed out and it's just harder to tell my story and harder to go forward with all of this.

[A]

And it takes so long. You're just like waiting.

[B]

So during all that, I'm just like, maybe I don't want to actually do this, you know, like lots of back and forth. And that's what I want people to know too, that like, it might seem like I stand strong and all of that online. But you do post like your best moments or your best times. Even through posting child abuse awareness and stuff, it's still like not my present, you know, not exactly how I'm feeling all the time. So I think that it's important to know that like through these things, it's okay to be weak at times. Like, it's okay to be like, to want to go back and to be like, maybe this isn't for me. And I think that that's also a part of just, just knowing that it's the right thing for you. Like, you have to question, you know,

[A]

like, and prepare yourself like that it can take, right.

[B]

And also prepare yourself that it could take years and they might decide to drop your case or they might decide to take a plea even though you said you didn't want to or whatever. I mean, through the process, I've been treated fairly. Good. I would say, like, my experience, I feel like I've been treated fairly and I've Been treated, you know, really good for what the system can offer. It's been extremely traumatic. So I don't know how people go through it when the DA is an asshole to them or, you know, they're not believed by the detectives. Like, I couldn't imagine that added to just the already feelings I have of just telling my story and thinking that they're not believing me, even though they are, and things like that. So when I look at other people's stories and, like, that they tried to report and, like, the DA was against them or stuff, that. That stuff really hurts. And, like, that's partly why I am fighting so hard, too, because it's like, justice for everyone. Like, the more people that come forward and the more people that make it, like, show this is not okay. You know, more DAs that do take cases and do put these people away, not for 10 years, but for 40 more forever. You know, life. You know, like, at least something that is actually feasible. Like, something that I can, like, be like, that was justice. This, you know, I've always not giving them. Please.

[A]

Yeah. And anything that involves animals or children, there should be no ends of surplus like it should be.

[B]

Especially when you have stacked evidence against you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, beyond a reasonable doubt. We know you did this. Like, you know, like, yeah, go. Go away for life. It should be like a minimum of life.

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

And yeah, it's just. That's not the reality. I think that, you know, a lot of people probably are predators themselves or they apologize for them. You know, they're rapist apologists and things like that. And those are the judges, Those are the DAs, those are the detectives. So when you try to go and tell those people your story, they're automatically biased. They're automatically like, no, that didn't happen. You know, like, things like that. And I definitely got lucky. I definitely got lucky with it also being a major city. So they are more trauma informed, they have more means to be educated and have certain trainings and stuff, whereas a small town might not have had that. So I did get lucky in the sense of having an advocate and having those things that other people do not have the privilege of having. And that has still been a really hard process. Like, significantly hard. And like, I told my story to the detectives, and it didn't just end there. You know, like, they make you do a lot of the work. Like, a lot of the leg work is on the survivor. Like, can you get us your therapy notes? Can you give us the old phones that you had in your childhood? Can you bring Us your phone and have it plugged in for nine hours and not be able to use it so we can take everything off of it. You know, like, it's a lot of me putting in a lot of effort and energy to get justice when it should be. I think the detectives doing more of the legwork, but they don't. And then it's like, now you got all of that, but we need you to come in again so that you can try and trap your abusers on a recorded line. Like, it's always something more that they need from you and that. I didn't realize when I was reporting. I thought it was just gonna be like, oh, I reported. Tell my story. It's kind of just, okay. And then we moved to trial. It wasn't, like, so much.

[A]

And is it. It's still going on right now.

[B]

Yes. So, like, I had my first grand jury, I believe, a year ago.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I went to grand jury, which is like, basically there will be. It was a silent grand jury, which typically happens with any felonies.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So they. You. They're not notified. Like, my stepdad didn't know or anything. And it's like a panel of 12 people, and they're, like, unanimously picked and parts of a. Part of the community. And you go in there and you. It's like a room like this. And you just tell everything that happened.

[A]

So you had to tell it again.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

To strangers.

[B]

All 12 of these people who are supposed to, like, keep a straight face and stuff, but, you know, human nature.

[A]

How long?

[B]

So it's hard. So I would say, because, like, the way that they frame it and stuff. And the DA Will ask you, like, specific questions and stuff. It probably takes about, like, 40 minutes or so.

[A]

Nice. Okay.

[B]

To tell everything. And then. So I did that, and I was, like, playing with play. D'oh. And it melted in my hands and, like, mixed with my tears. Like, it was beyond traumatic, that first grand jury. It was supposed to be the only grand jury, but then a law changed. Basically, you can't try people for historical child sexual abuse without exact dates because their defense can't make a case to protect them. Like, and defend.

[A]

Even if you're a child that doesn't know the dates. Right.

[B]

So they need exact dates and times that it happened or they can't move forward. So the DA called me a couple days before my birthday or the week before my birthday this year and told me we can't move forward on. Because the grand jury. I ended with 12 charges. That's what they moved Forward with. Instead of the six the detectives had came up with, they decided, oh, no, it's 12. 12. Through everything that I said. And then he called me and he said, we can't move forward with any of the 12, but we can move forward with three out of those 12. He said, if you want to just move forward with the three, we can. We'll still go to trial just on those three. But it's not a lot. It's not like what we're wanting, you know, it's not my goal. My goal is to get him away forever, you know. Yeah. So we decided to. Well, I decided that I was going to just do it again. So I had to go back to grand jury to a different set of 12 people. New 12 people.

[A]

And that one was more recent.

[B]

Yes, that was just last month.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I had told them the whole story again. And we were hoping to just try and get those 12 charges again, you know, and we ended up leaving with 18. Wow. Yes. So through me, going back in my memory and trying to figure out everything, and basically what I did was I tried to figure out when I was in school and when I wasn't, and then that makes it to where it's from September to June. That kind of narrows it down. And then you can decide, oh, well, it was sunny. We live in Oregon. It's never sunny unless it's like, these types of months. So they can kind of narrow it down more. Or, like, during this time, it was like my birthday, you know, like major events so that they know. Or like when I was sexually abused that time, I remember my. My teacher was Miss, Whatever. And then they can go back and they can figure out what year that was. Or I lived in that apartment at that year, for sure. Through these years, I was at that apartment. So basically, they. With everything I added to the story that, you know, they needed extra details. This time we left with more charges, which is great. They're more serious charges, too. Like, it's originally, he was being charged with, I believe, one count of rape, one count of sodomy, one count of child exploitation with, like, with online, like, digital stuff, one count of the animal cruelty, which then it, like, has a hyphen and it says, like, sexual abuse. And then, like, I think five charges of, like, just like, sexual abuse and another five charges of that, like, it was like a whole plethora of things. And now it's more like four counts of rape, four counts of sodomy, all in the first degree, one count of, you know, like, it's very serious now.

[A]

So that was a month ago. And then how soon after do they turn around and charge him?

[B]

So basically the first grand jury that happened, they move Forward with the 12 charges and then it goes straight to the judge.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then the judge signs off on a warrant and then they issue a warrant for him. And then he hid like he knew that there was a warrant out for him. He was notified that there was a warrant out and he didn't turn himself in for at least three months until he was kind of pressured by like friends to turn himself in or something. So he turns himself in I think in June or something of last year. And then he bailed out on $25,000. So the state had asked for a $50,000 or $500,000 bond or bail. And then you have to pay 10 of that, which would have been 50. The judge was nice and gave him 250,000. So he only had to pay 25,000. Someone paid it, he managed to pay it. So he got out and they put him.

[A]

He's been out since June and they

[B]

put him on an ankle monitor and supervision and all of that, but he still walks free. You know, it's just whatever. And then when I went back to the grand jury, they basically they re indict you. So because there was more charges, he had to go back to an arraignment and be like, go through the process again. So he had to go to court and I showed up. But they basically said all the same stipulations are the same and they didn't add any bail time or anything.

[A]

So he didn't have to pay again?

[B]

No.

[A]

So he's still out?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Well, when will he be?

[B]

And it's been over 90 days too, that he's been good, like on his probation or whatever. So when you've been good, I guess they like can drop your level of protection. So instead of like level three, if he does whatever his parole officer, his probation officer wants, they'll like drop it down and make him check it less. So even though he's waiting for a trial for serious, serious offenses.

[A]

Okay, so then do you know when the trial will be?

[B]

The trial was supposed to start in May and then something happened to where he had to get new lawyers. So it's now pushed back until July.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So they can go over all of the evidence, but once the trial starts, it's supposed to just take one week.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And just.

[A]

And then hopefully he is charged over. Is your mom involved at all? Or you just focused it on Her.

[B]

Basically, the DA was like, there wasn't enough evidence.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So they're waiting to find out if they can charge her with complicity and things like that after trial.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like, once they prove that he did that, then they can prove that she was complicit in it. But if they haven't even proven that he's guilty, it's hard to charge her with complicity, I guess. Like, there's just a lot of, like, hoops that they have to jump through through it all. And there is a lot more evidence. Like, there is a significant paper trail that, like, my stepdad left online of him doing inappropriate, appropriate things. And just he wasn't very careful about a lot of things. And I also think that's partly to blame, like, my mom, because she would go through, like, his stuff online, and instead of, like, fully deleting the accounts, he would just, like, have to get off of it, you know, So a lot of these weird things that were, like, rape forums and, like, things. Places where he would watch that bestiality or, you know, the child. Child abuse stuff, whatever. He would have, like, make profiles on these things. And they're still active. Like, they're still, like, even though he wasn't on them. Yeah, they're still there. Did you. The police see this?

[A]

Did you get him to admit on a phone call?

[B]

Yeah, on the vid, like. Well, none of the police phone calls worked. They never answered because they knew that they were already reported. Like, gotcha. They were. Hush. After that, they were like, we're not saying anything. We know that you told. But before that, I had had, like. Like, a conversation with my stepdad because what. Like, what came of it was that he would cry all the time. Like, he would just cry randomly, and that would just irritate me so bad. Be like, why are you crying? Like, just, ew. Like, no. So basically my brother had came downstairs and he had told me, like, he's up there, like, selling his motorcycle or something. He's, like, crying because he says he wants to be a better dad or something. So I, of course, me, you know, I go upstairs. But I had turned on my video and I had recorded, and I had, like, basically what? The conversation was supposed to just be like, you know, you're not a victim here, so stop crying. Like, my brother came down and told me, like, you're making him uncomfortable because you're, like, crying. Yeah, but you're not, you know, like, what's wrong with you? You know, so we kind of, like, go into this big, heated conversation. And it goes on for, like, 22 minutes. And throughout that conversation, he basically alludes to, like, the things that he's done and that he's told his therapist or whatever else, you know, and it's a bad video, like, for him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I turned it into the detectives and everything, and it just doesn't look good. You know, it's damning evidence against him just stacked up, you know, on top of my whole family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, at one point, him telling them that he did it. Right. So it's like the whole family thinks you did it. You told them that. You know, like, we all were in a mediation at one point in the living room crying about. About it. So how do all of these adults, like, they're gonna go up on the stand in life? Are you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, no. Like, it just doesn't. It doesn't add up, like, why he even is trying to fight tooth and nail and say he's not guilty. I don't get it. I mean, obviously that's what his lawyers are advising or whatever, but I don't think that it's going to help him at all because it's just that damning. And that's. My mom was smarter. Like, all the crimes that my mom committed against me, like, by herself. Like, for the people who do not know my story, the sexual abuse of my father, my stepfather, started with my mom partaking when I was five years old. From my memory, I was about five. And then she only partaken one time, the first time that I can remember. And then my stepdad just sexually abused me until I was about 13. Well, then after 13, it ended. And I remember at one point just saying, like, we were broke. You know, we ate out of food boxes and stuff like that. I think it was a more them not, you know, budgeting. Well, they had everything they needed, you know, and all the fun. But we were broke. And at one point, I wanted, like, school clothes or something, and my mom brought up some idea that I could meet up with this guy and take pictures, and if I did that, he'd give me money and it was more set up, like modeling. That's kind of how she made it seem. And I would say until I reported my stepdad and everything and told the detectives what had happened to me, I didn't really care. Like, it didn't bother me. Like, it didn't affect me. It just felt like something weird that happened. I wasn't touched is how I kind of rationalized it. It was better than what happened to me with My stepdad is how I felt after that.

[A]

Pictures were taken of you?

[B]

Yes. So my mom took me to that man's house and on multiple occasions she was there. But then it started to be just me going over there alone. And he lived in a like really, really big, sky high building, like condo. He was rich, you know, he was the owner of this club in Portland that was a swingers club that my mom was very active at. But apparently she had known this man since she was 19 and he is significantly older than her. You know, I was 14 and he was 47 when we had this, you know, encounter. So she took me over to his house and he was very, you know, in the. The club that he owned was called Club Sesso. It's now shut down, but it was owned with Ron Jeremy, like that was the co owner. Which is for people who don't know he's in like, he's in prison or he's being held in like a mental facility now on multiple counts of sexual abuse. Like through his whole entire career, he sexually abused women. And he is a porn star, a very known, well known one. And this is his friend that my mom is taking me to this man's house and she. At first, it's very like I'm wearing basically something like this, like jeans and a little shirt, but it was a T top, so it was kind of lower. And I wasn't developed at the time or anything. I was very tiny, flat chested. And he would, he had me like pose on his bed fully clothed, but had me like push up my chest and like told me to just do certain things. And it was really weird. Like it was awkward, I would say that. But my mom was there. Like I remember just I kept looking towards her, you know, and that was kind of like my. It was whatever. Like I, my mom's here, it's fine. Kind of thing that went on multiple times, but then every time. So like, it would start with grooming and then end with the photos. So like, the grooming would be like, I'm gonna take you to lunch, we're gonna go on a shopping spree. You can buy whatever you want, but then you have to model in everything that you bought. Struggling with weight loss. Prolon's five day Fasting Mimicking diet is a clinically developed nutrition program designed to promote fat loss while protecting lean body mass. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, it assists the body in entering a fasting like state that helps reset metabolism and target visceral fat. In just five days, Prolon Offers a science backed approach to weight loss without extreme restriction or guesswork. Get 15% off plus a 40 bonus gift when you [e-mail] now that type of thing. So there's always like you, you have to. He has to get something out of it. So he would take me and my mom shopping at like Victoria's Secret and all over the place, you know, and then I'd have to go back and then it would be. It progressively got more intense. Like the first time I was in my clothes. Then the second time it's like, okay, well why don't you wear these like little shorts and this bralette. And then it got more intense, tense. And then it became more like spread your legs completely open in like a thong that's you know, a string. A string, yeah, yeah. And all the while I'm 14, you know, 14 years old and a lot of this is happening with my mom and they're watching it during each session, if that's what you want to call it. To every abuse. Like every time I was abused there there was always discussion about like what was going to happen next. Like, oh, well, next time we'll do like a shower shoot or next time we'll rent a place that has a pool and we'll do photos in the pool. And I remembered progressively getting like more uncomfortable and just feeling like icky. Like that's the only way I could really explain it. Like I just kind of felt sick to my stomach. Like, oh, this is kind of weird, you know, but oh, my mom's there, it's fine. And then he was going through the photos one time that he had taken with my mom. He's like, do you want to see them? Or whatever. And I went over there. I wasn't really caring too much about the photos, but my mom, mom was definitely looking at them and everything. And she at one point witnesses, like she's in the picture because there's a mirror so it shows her reflection and she loses it. Like, you can't get me in any of these photos if you get me in any, like. And she's just very, very upset. And then that's when it starts to connect to me. Like, oh, what we're doing is wrong. This isn't legal. You know, like, because at the. I was, oh, it's modeling, you know, it's whatever. Like it's a little weird, but you know, it's nothing thing. I've gone through worse. You know, that's how I'm framing it. I mean, I've been touched. This is great. I can just sit here. Nobody's bothering me, you know? Like, it's fine now. It's something I can't get over because it's like those photos are still somewhere and I can't get. I don't know where they are. I don't know how many people has seen them. I don't. I don't even know how much money was made off of me. Like, it feels. I mean, it doesn't feel. It was. I mean, she trafficked me. That's what it was. She took my body and used it for profit to pay her bills, to get me things she didn't want to buy me with her own money. And it was just like luxury gifts, too. Like an iPad that she still has to this day. Like, bought by him. Like, anything. Like her whole PGE bill. He'd pay. Like, her power bill. Like, anything she needed, he would do. At the cost of what? Trafficking your own child? Like, it's beyond my ability to get over now at this point.

[A]

Do you think your stepdad knew about that?

[B]

I do not believe so, because she would always tell me. Like, don't tell your stepdad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that that was partly because. Not because she was scared of what she was doing, but, like, because he was a person who did not want to share me, like, ever. Like, it was very weird. Like, throughout all of the abuse, he made it pretty clear that, like, he didn't want me to be with anyone else. Like, he didn't want me to have a girlfriend or do anything at all, play with anyone outside. Nothing. Like, I was just his. I feel like if he knew that my mom was doing that, he probably would have been very upset.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, in whatever weird way he was. And, like, it just made it worse because they both have the same name. Like, the man that she brought me to, they're both named Paul. So it's like I have this, like, trigger now with people. I'm like, I don't like Pulse. Like, you probably are all creeps. Like, I know you're not, but, like, that's what.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, that's my prejudgment. And it's just like, it's hard to, like, realize that, like, not only. That's why I can't view her as a victim. Like, my mom will never be a victim in my eyes. Because even if she were a victim to my stepdad, she did that on her. She did things on her own, and she. She told me to hide them from him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it felt like she was very voluntarily doing this stuff on her own accord. She knew what she was doing and she put me in severe danger because not only did she go with me, but she allowed me to go to his house alone. And I started to kind of realize, like, oh, well, if I want something, if I want $300, I just go and take some pictures. It's all, it's whatever, you know, I kind of start to. You start to rationalize things, you start to normalize them because it's just your everyday. But then when you heal and you look back on it, you're like, what was I doing? Like, and that's what comes with a lot of shame and self blame and stuff. Because when we're kids, we are technically making decisions for our own, like ourselves, but we're not because we're not old enough to even consent to that type of behavior or those types of things. And we have parents and our guardians who are like, yeah, just do it. So then you grow up and you're like, why was I putting myself in all these like horrible situations? Why was I the one who was initiated these things? Like, why did I think it was okay? And it's because that's how deep these things go. Like your brain completely gets wired differently, you know, Like I have a whole personality disorder now because of what happened to me. Like, if people would have just not abused me and been nice, just treated me good, it could have avoided a whole entire rewiring of somebody's brain, you know, like that's completely unfair. Fair. You can't go back and rewire your brain differently, you know, you just have to live with the brain you have that these monsters created. And it's not, not fair at all. And then people like my mom who have done horrible crimes, they, they didn't have any evidence. So it's just whatever, you know, she, she just gets to go live her life. She gets to be a mom to my sister and live in whatever little fantasy world she wants to live in.

[A]

So your sister still lives with her?

[B]

Yeah, my little sister is about to be 18 and she still lives with her. And then in whatever sick world, like my mom is genuinely a sick, sick broken person. Like I'm not even going to be nice, you know, like she is genuinely a monster like they are. But when, I don't know, at some point during this process, 2021 to now, my uncle got out of prison for like some sort of crime. And this is my stepdad's brother, okay? And through the whole time of him being in prison, which was eight years. Apparently, him and my mom were having some sort of love affair, so she separated from my stepdad during the time of me reporting. They're still married legally, but they're now separated. And she's with my uncle now. Yes. So they are together and. Okay. Yeah. Have some sort of. I don't know if it's a partnership or if they're. Like. I truly don't know because I'm not there. Maybe they even broke up by now. Like, I don't know. The last I heard, they were living together and basically raising my sister. Like. Like.

[A]

So you're not. You don't speak to her and you don't speak.

[B]

No. Since the protective order was placed, I just have left it. I don't think I will ever reach out to my little sister unless she reached out to me. And I'd prefer her be, like, 21. Like. Or my mom be passed. Like, that's really the only hope I see with me and my siblings ever making amends.

[A]

Same with your brother.

[B]

Is their mother passing away like, our mom dying, or like, them facing reality and not being a part of her life? But I refuse. Yeah. To associate with anyone who undermines what I went through or acts like she's some changed woman. She's not. You just. You can't. I mean, even if you have changed or you've grown up or you realize that what you did is wrong, you still have to.

[A]

And it's a little consequence beyond.

[B]

Yeah. And, I mean, we were taught that, right? I mean, I was taught that growing up. That's why it didn't make sense. Like, I was always told, like, if you mess up, you be honest, you face the consequences. Like, that's what I had to do in the house. Like, if I did something wrong in the house, oh, there was gonna be consequences for. For sure. But there was never any for them, which doesn't add up. And that's, I think, something that my littlest. My little brother has struggled with too. Like, the idea that the life that we lived is false. Like, it was a front. Like, all of the values they taught us or the morals they tried to instill in us were not their own. It was false. And that's hard. It's hard to step back and realize, like, man, I was lied to. Like, my whole life was a lie. Like you taught. You tried to make me this man. Like, this. This man who loves women and cares about women. But you're abusing my sister. You know, like, that was really Hard for my brother to grasp. And he fell into drug use and a lot of difficulties. I blame them. I truly blame them for everything that has happened and transpired. With my siblings having difficulties, it goes back to them.

[A]

Now. Does your stepsister talk to your stepdad anymore?

[B]

So my stepsister's actually been, like, the one family member who's, like, never waived her support. Like, it's never waved, like, sides, like, wavered sides, like, ever. She's stayed true to, like, me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like, it's just. Yeah. I don't think she's ever really had any conversations with them.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Since, like, really finding out, outside of, like, me inviting her over for Christmas when I lived there. Okay. And her coming, because she, you know, but she would tell me, like, I can't even make eye contact with these people. Like, I can't look at him in his eyes. I can't. And it's hard because a lot of my siblings were, like, didn't have a dad because he was so busy abusing me. That's how they viewed it. Like, hey, dad, come play the football. Like, come pass the football outside with me. Oh, no. Because I'm abusing your sister. I can't do that. Hey, come and see me for the weekend. I haven't seen you in months, dad. Like, let's go out to lunch. No, I don't. You know. Cause he's so busy with me. In their eyes, they didn't know why that was. They just thought I was favored, you know, the special kid. The kid that gets everything they want. And that hurts, you know? Like, you don't understand it when you're a child, you just see your stepsister getting this treatment by your biological dad that you're not getting, and you just want to be loved by your dad. So, like, that's just, like, so horrible. Like, he. He hurt everybody in that house. Like, he let everybody down. Even if he didn't sexually abus abuse them. You weren't a dad to her. You weren't a dad to my other siblings. So you. You're a failure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's another thing I don't get. Like, he would always just cry all the time and be like, oh, I just want my family back. I always just wanted my family. But he had a family, and he destroyed it. He did everything he could. Not once, not twice. And then, like, oh, I realize I'm a horrible person. Let me go get help. You did it through a span of years, you know, hundreds, thousands of times. You had, you know, the choice. And those all of those times to be like, maybe I shouldn't do this anymore. Never. Nothing ever told him to stop. Nothing at the time when he was sexually abusing me, told me, oh, my family, that was only after you were caught. And that's just difficult to grasp. Like, I don't want to hear your waterworks or your tears. That adds to my anger.

[A]

So now we're just. You're just waiting. Basically.

[B]

It's just a waiting game until.

[A]

Yeah, July. Okay.

[B]

And, yeah, just basically focusing on my healing and stuff. But it's been hard, like, truly. Yeah. Like, I still am very unhealed, very broken as a person. I'm still, like, putting the pieces back together regularly. And that's at 26. And I feel really, like, behind in life at times and because I got, like, married young and then divorced. And, you know, it's amicable, but there's a lot of pain and trauma that, you know, and things that transpired in my marriage, you know, And I think that I have realized that, like, a lot of things are a pattern of just, like, a lot of domestic violence and a lot of things that were normalized that I just don't want to continue on. And I think that that's why me and my ex wife made the decision to kind of separate, even if there was love there. And then we ended up getting a divorce. But, I mean, throughout that marriage, it was extremely difficult to go through all of this because she had her own mental illnesses and stuff. Since the divorce, I moved back to my hometown.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I moved states back, but that was great because I got to leave where my mom lived because before I was running into her all the time, and that was so triggering. So now I live back in my hometown and I'm staying with family.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I don't have my own place or anything. So that's one thing that, like, is difficult.

[A]

And the family you're with now, they're supportive of everything.

[B]

Yeah. The person that I'm living with is my grandpa on my dad's side. Like, but he's not my dad's dad. It's like my step grandpa. But I'm staying there temporarily. But I can't even have my cat there with me. So, like, just things are, like, you know, still difficult. And that is something that I kind of want to make clear through this, like, this opportunity that I have, that although I have made it very far, it's still lifelong. Like, there are a lot of people who don't even face what they went through until they're older than me. So it's just. It's a lot of, like, I feel like I'm having to completely restart my life, but I don't even really know who I am because of. I only was in survival for so long, you know, and every single relationship I've gotten into has had problems with violence or yelling, screaming. You know, all of these things are just. They're what I seen growing up and what I continue to carry on. And I'm responsible in a lot of it. Like, a lot of why my relationships fail are because of me. Like, I play a very big part in it of not taking care of my mental health and, you know, like, depending on people a lot to take care of me or save me. And I'm really trying to, after my divorce, like, find my footing of, like, true independence. Like, making it all the way out here by myself and stuff is a huge, huge thing, you know, like, just being an adult and not feeling like I need to jump into relationship after relationship so that I'm not alone. Like, I'm still. I'm still healing that part of me. And I'm always told, like, oh, you're so brave. You're so strong. You know, And I do put that out there, but I'm still working towards that, like, being truly who I want to be. Yeah.

[A]

And I think, too, it's. It's hard because every day is different. Yeah. You know, like, I feel like you'll have days where you feel those things and you feel strong, and then you have days where you probably feel like, why am I still here? Yeah.

[B]

And I think that other survivors who have had trauma with their mothers can relate. It's like a very deep type of like. Like confusion, I guess, of, like, the person who brought you into the world doesn't love you, well, then maybe I'm not lovable and things like that. And I think that we have to work really hard to, like, realize that although our mother didn't love us, that's not because of us. Like, you know, they're just two different people. Yeah. And I have definitely struggled with, like. Like, getting with bad people and then thinking, well, it's because, you know, like, nobody can love me. Like, my own mom couldn't love me, so why would anyone else, you know? And, like, getting into these really deep, dark thoughts. And I struggled with it a lot. Like, this past relationship I got into was just terrible. And it's just, you know, red flag after red flag. But you're so desperate to feel loved instead of pouring that Love into yourself, which I am starting to realize that I need to do and that it makes me feel a lot better when I, you know, block the contact and not feed into it anymore and realize, you know, my nervous system is telling me that I, this is not healthy. You know, I'm gonna take a step back. Being able to do those things is, is really big for me because I have been so dependent on everyone around me constantly.

[A]

And it's so interesting how you can be so self aware and strong when it comes to sharing your story. But you still, you know, the way that the human brain works, we still take these years of lived experiences and the most repeat in a way these cycles because that's all we knew. You know, it's almost like you have to give yourself time to relearn and relearn again and again and even on your own in a completely different situation in order to, to break those patterns. And that's why things just trickle down and trickle down and it's heartbreaking.

[B]

And when you've also been like around such bad people, like even the bare minimum feels like so great. Like I'm over the moon, like somebody's like doing barely anything for me.

[A]

But to you it's right so great

[B]

because your whole childhood was lacking, you know, like you're, you had no love. You don't really even have maybe an idea of it. You know, I've really struggled, struggled with that. Like for the longest I connected sex with love. Like if this person loves me, they have to be having sex with me. That doesn't make sense because you can love your friends, you love your family members, right? There is love without that. So like when I'm like, I would get in these relationships and I'd be like, no, we haven't had sex. You don't love me. Like there's no way you do. Like you're not feeling good today, but you don't love me. Like it has to be that. And then I would just fall into these things cycles of like sleeping with a bunch of people because I was wanting to fill this void of love. But that's not love. And like I, it takes a lot of like going through things to really realize like, oh wait, I've been trying to fill this void this whole time, but I don't think that's really working. Like, look at where I'm, where I'm at now, you know, like, it's just. Yeah. I mean the whole time of me like trying to figure out who I am has definitely been me messing up, like, just messing up and messing up, and that's okay. Just learning from it.

[A]

And, you know, we're in this short time that we're here on Earth, I think that we are constantly evolving. Sometimes that might be us moving backwards, but then we evolve forward again. And it's okay to change who you are as many times as you need to, you know? And I think that where you're at in your journey now is kind of of building and rebuilding your own identity just in your own bubble.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Without anything else. And it's okay. I always say, too, it's like, of course, what we've gone through in our experiences, they do help shape us. And they give us these different strengths and sometimes weaknesses and everything else in between, but they don't have to define us. And I think that we don't really. We can't really find ourselves and know who we are until we take that time alone and that silence within ourselves just to figure out who. Who do I want to be? Who am I? What am I working toward? All these different things, you know, and it's challenging. That's not easy because we can think it and tell ourselves that, but we're so used to these patterns and routines that we're in that and these habits that it makes it hard to kind of. It takes time to.

[B]

Yeah. And it's scary. It is, because it's all unfamiliar. So it's. It's scary. I mean, simple things, like, not as much anymore, but, like, when I first got a divorce, like, just going to the store or like, just this figuring out what I'm gonna eat. You know, it's like. It's so much different when it's. By yourself.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When you've been married for years, it's like, we did everything together. Like, how am I going to do anything alone? But then I'm also sitting back and I'm like, well, I felt alone.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The entire marriage. So that doesn't make sense. Sense. Yeah, like, you know, like. Right. It's like this constant battle of, like, conflicting things, and it makes it harder when you have complex trauma to navigate through. Any relationship, any work, school. I mean, all of it. I've struggled. Like, I went to college and I, you know, get my associate's degree and stuff like that. But it just. I always end up, like, leaving or it gets too stressful, or I, you know, something comes up. And, like, with work, you know, you finally find a stable job, and it's all great, and then they close down, you know, like, so it's Right. It's like you can build your life back up, but that isn't certain. And that's hard because it's like, it's so hard for somebody normal, like, whatever normal is, to get their life on track, let alone somebody who is, like, you know, broken. Like, you have had all of these things happen to you and then get your life together and still just have life happen. Like, life still happens. Like, still happens. The cars still break down, things still happen. And it's just so much. That much harder to navigate it when you have a personality disorder or you have no mom to call and be like, what do I do in this situation? You know, like, it's just a lot of different things. Everyone has their own things. Like, PE survivors feel like they have to move all the way across the country because they can't be where they were born. You know, like, everybody has their thing things and it. It just, I think, makes it so much harder to just have just the normaly of a stable life. It feels like I've never had anything stable, and I'm constantly searching for that and I need to, like, create it instead of searching and I'm like, looking for it for somewhere, but it's like, I need. It's here. Like, if I just build on myself, I'll find that. But it is.

[A]

But that is. It's a lot easier said than done. It takes time. And I think that it ends up happening and you don't even realize it's happening until you're there, which is kind of the beauty in it because you're, like you said, you can look back at different times of your life and be like, it's nice to see how far I've come. And that I think those are going to be really important reminders for you. I mean, even I think, like, you mentioned it when we spoke the second time or when. I don't know how many times we spoke, but like, the time around to plan this, I feel like, you know, we were kind of. You were in a different place when we. When I first reach out, when now you're like, I can do this.

[B]

I'm ready.

[A]

Right?

[B]

No, as much as I wanted to do it, I just wasn't in the place.

[A]

But even that, it's like. And that's okay because you always need to trust your gut and you always need to be ready for you.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And just because. And that goes to show, too. It's like just because somebody is sharing their story in their own comfort behind their own screen doesn't mean that they are ready to talk about it on anyone else's time and terms, and that's all right. You know, like. And I think I always tell people, you know, the purpose of this platform is to give survivors and victims their control back. Because in all of these situations, most of the time, these people had no control. And that's why I always am, like, when I invite people on, I'm like. Like, take it. You have your control. Share it in the way that you want. You feel called to. And, you know, I think that you'll. Throughout your life and different experiences. There's gonna be days where I feel like, as you know, it's so hard and confusing. And those days are what make you. Makes you human. You know, it's like we're never. No matter how healed we are, we're never gonna be invincible.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And not look back and still feel pain and trauma. That's what makes us relatable. But the fact that you're able to take something that was not only so traumatic, but just. It could carry so much shame, like you said, and I'm sure so many. I mean, people feel shame over the smallest of things. So. And that's such a normal feeling, such a normal human emotion. And the fact that you were able to be like, you know what? Fuck this. It needs to be spoken about. That is. I never. I always tell people, never take that lightly with yourself. Even if it starts to become almost like you're normal. Like, even people that are advocates and talk public speak, and it almost like becomes their. Their thing every time you do it is still just as powerful as that first time you did it. And it's. It's amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's life changing. And it's not only so powerful for yourself, but you are changing so many people's lives. Like, you needed that, and now you're that for other people.

[B]

Yeah. And that's kind of like where it all started, you know, just needing support and community.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then it grew into me being this person who was, like, helping people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I was like, I didn't even come here to help.

[A]

Help.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Exactly. I.

[B]

When I started this, I needed help.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You guys, I still need help. Right. I don't. I don't know.

[A]

We always need help.

[B]

Yeah. That's why I really do. Like, there's pros and cons, bad things and good things to tick tock and the online advocacy world, but, like, I truly have made, like, such great connections, and I think some of the best connections are with people who have held me accountable. Like when I have maybe fallen short as an advocate or fallen short as a friend. And just that community has genuinely helped me so much and I'm so grateful for the community that I created over there and just especially my mutuals, the survivors that are posting like me and stuff. It's just so inspirational to see all of our growth because we all have kind of entered the platforms at different times and things like that. And it's just knowing that you're not alone is. It's so important to healing. And like when I post like what keeps me posting truly like it's hard for people to understand and it might just be like kind of like my personality because I am kind of like jaded or a little bit like rough around the edges type of person. But I'm like all the hate is what drives me. Like and I have heard a lot of people like say like I don't post anymore because I got a lot of hate or things like that. So I really do try and like continue like my journey of advocating even through my mental health and stuff because I know that I am kind of rare in that ability to just be like actually that's going to make me post more, right? Like, oh, you don't want to hear it. It makes you uncomfortable. Well, let me post five more posts after this one. You know, like I'm like a person very much. Just like this just proves that I need to post it more.

[A]

Absolutely. You know, I just, it's mind boggling. Like that's one, one that is one of the things through all of this and helping people, you know, have a platform to share their stories. The fact that there's people that write anything even remotely.

[B]

I know. And you're sharing it, even writing this makes me uncomfortable.

[A]

Don't watch it then.

[B]

Right. But it's also like you look silly because I posted this.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I clicked post. You're making fun of me and laughing at me for something that I voluntarily post state.

[A]

And honestly we live in a very like sick world.

[B]

I mean it is they will say the most disgusting.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like I. But truthfully I have always tried to like not at the very beginning but it did shift. Like I would get some really bad hate messages specifically with topics like POCD with the animal stuff too. But like I would be told that I'm a predator and things like that. And child on child sexual abuse is also another very touchy one that I have touched on as being a victim and somebody who perpetrated it. I have openly talked about this stuff, you know, obviously. But then I'm told that, oh, you're, you're a predator, you deserve to go to jail and stuff. But instead of getting defensive and being like, you know, you're right, you know, or, you know, f you, I would just meet them where they're at. Like, you know, I obviously, you know, maybe you're a victim of this and that's why you're coming at me like that. And you're very upset. But, like, hear me out, right? And surprisingly enough, I would get through to a lot of people, like in my private messages and even in my comments sometimes of like, true or maybe. And even sometimes it would take months for them to message me. I get a message a month later and I'm saying, you know, I looked at this differently.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm really sorry. Like, I was just coming at you from a very angry trigger state. I wasn't looking at the bigger picture. And those are the things that, that's why, like, child on child sexual abuse really needs to be talked about more. Because it's two children. So it's very, like, hard for people to understand that, like, the perpetrators in it are always, like, violent and are always out to hurt the child. Sometimes they are. But I openly talked about my experience at, as being a perpetrator of it as a very young child for survivors of it, not for perpetrators at all. And the people who truly watched, like, to the end of my videos and stuff would see that it was me always framing it as, like, if you are a victim of child on child sexual abuse, you do not have to forgive who abused you. You do not have to, you know, talk to them at family get togethers just because they're your cousin or your brother or whatever, you know, like, you are, have every right to hold them just as accountable as an adult. Like, and that is coming from somebody who did this, you know, like, as a hurt child. I want you guys to know that and that people took that very wrong and ran with it, you know. But I continue to talk about it because it helped a lot of people realize it is a cycle.

[A]

Yes, absolutely. And let's look at the full, you know, go back a little bit. But people are so quick.

[B]

There are so many different things that can lead to these things. But children don't just sexually abuse other children. You know, there's obviously something wrong and it needs to be addressed, you know, and it can't just, we can't just ignore it and it's gonna go away. We can't it's just not. Not doesn't work that way, you know, And I. I am a firm believer that if we do not understand both sides of things, no idea truly understand them. Like, there's no understanding pedophilia, because who can trust a pedophile? Like, you can't really do proper research on these people and do like polls on them or something. Like, they're gonna tell the truth. Like, you can't do research on it. If nobody's talking about the other side of child sexual abuse or child on child sexual abuse, how are we really gonna know how to stop it? You know, like, I want people to know. Like, if I had parents who were watching me, if I wasn't sexually ab and I didn't think that these things were normalized, I would have never done the things that I did. I thought it was okay because of all of these things. Now that's my one experience. Are there a million other experiences of child and child sexual abuse that maybe is a significant older kid and a younger kid and there was severe violence. All situations need to be looked at as their own. And that's another thing that is hard online. People just see one thing and they're like, that's how it is. It's just black and white. There's always nuance. There's always. That's why I believe survivors, like, if they go on there and they say, no, my family member did this. They knew what they were doing. They threatened me. All of these things. That's your story. That's your truth. I'm not going to deny it. But I still get to talk about mine, even if it makes you uncomfortable. And I think that through sharing really, really hard topics, I have made it easier for people to share their own experiences and talk about it, whether that be in my comment section, in my DMs, or maybe with their therapist, you know, like, those are the most important messages that I get. Like, the ones that say, like, you know, I decided that I'm going to go and tell a therapist for the first time because I know that they're truly going to choose healing, you know, that they're not just sitting in their pain anymore. And that's important. And especially the messages that are like, like, I'm going to report those ones are also really important too, because it's like, the more we have people reporting, the more people that will go to jail. The odds are still against us, but the more people that do it, the better chances we have. And I get those messages regularly. You know, of I never thought I was going to report this, but after watching all of your videos, you've given me strength. And I don't even really like when I post videos. I just post them. I just make a little lip syncing video and I just post like. I don't really think about the impact necessarily that it's gonna make. I would say that I've been pretty selfish through my advocacy and my online stuff. Most of the time I post for me, I post to get something off of my chest, to release something, to maybe somebody has said something to me recently. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. Let me actually tell you the truth about this, you know, and it's. It has been more driven through selfishness and wanting myself to heal. And I think that it's incredible that through that I have still been able to help so many people and then be like you share yourself so raw and authentically. And I'm not really looking at it that way. So when people bring that to my attention, I'm like, oh, yeah, maybe I am, you know, but really I'm just existing, just making it day by day like everyone else. Yeah.

[A]

Trying to make it through.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, you do an incredible job of sharing your story and I hope you never stop.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Seriously, you're incredible. And I mean, as you know, I've been following along for a couple years and it's just, it's very important and it's something that you don't hear often, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be talked about. Like we said and it exists and like there needs to be more done in so many ways. Like it's for. As much as I feel like we've had. What's the word I'm looking for? Not improvement. I guess for as forward as we've come with stories on social media and it's more public.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You would think that more change would be enforced, but there's still so much like. I like how you brought up people treat it as a running joke, all types of abuse, you know, even with the Epstein files. And it's like all types. It's like always a joke and it's so normalized and I get it to

[B]

a degree when it's like you're a story like, you know, humor can help, like it makes sense.

[A]

I'm talking about the people that have no idea and they just like comment on it and it's like it's.

[B]

No, it's not.

[A]

And it's just like, oh, so this is normal. Now like this is the world we live in, you know, and it's just, it's, it's twisted. And I think that obviously like you just said, we live in a world where there, there's a lot of darkness. So we do need light and it's, it is nice to bring light to dark situations, but that doesn't, that never means minimize and sometimes someone's trauma, right? Treating trauma as a joke, treating abuse as a joke, because it's not at all.

[B]

Yeah, it's serious and it's not taken seriously in our criminal system even. And that's where people, that's what I want people to realize. Like maybe we could be haha about it a little bit more and we'd have a little bit more room for that. If 99% of predators went to prison,

[A]

like we can talk about them going in.

[B]

8% of the a thousand that are reported walk free. So maybe if the numbers were a little different we could be like, yeah, it's so funny because they're all in prison, you know.

[A]

Exactly right.

[B]

But that's not the case. They're amongst us. They're laughing by you. They're sitting next to you laughing alongside you. I mean, I'm sorry but almost everybody knows a predator. That's the reality. Everyone has met a pretty predator. I don't there's a lot anyone thinks you meet them all the time. They are the, some of the most charismatic, hiding in plain sight normal people you've ever met. Teachers, doctors, anyone, all of them. Anyone. Honestly, the people that are the most upstanding citizens tend to be the creepiest. Like they're the ones that have the worst, you know, skeletons in their closet and they just put a couple good front out for the world because they're hiding that of course you're going to be the best you can be. Like, that was my stepdad. I mean nobody would have thought he was the favorite son. He was the greatest guy at work. He'd do anything, you know, I mean he would do that for me even. He would jump, pick me up from the mountain. Jump. Do anything you need him to do. Because if you don't, you lose everything. Because you have all of this stuff that's, you know, that you've done and you know you've done done and it's just. Yeah, people don't understand that, that they're everywhere. They really are. And a lot of joking about things like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

No, you're just fueling.

[A]

Absolutely. And you're allowing it to pass by day in and day out again and again.

[B]

And then it makes survivors think, like, oh, well, what happened to me is a joke. I just shouldn't even talk about it. Or then they feel more shame because.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not good, but you are. You're a huge part of the change. Seriously. And you're amazing. And thank you so much for coming. I'm so proud of you. Seriously. Of course. I'm so glad you came here and doing it all alone.

[B]

Props to you, girlfriend.

[A]

Yeah, that's something you gotta log.

[B]

Like, I did that across the country.

[A]

Amazing. Seriously.