Katrina Simmons & Kristi Kastler on Grief, Addiction & Fighting The Fentanyl Epidemic

Summary

Podcast Summary: "We're Out of Time"

Episode: Katrina Simmons & Kristi Kastler on Grief, Addiction & Fighting The Fentanyl Epidemic

Host: Richard Taite
Guests: Katrina Simmons, Christy Kastler
Release Date: April 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

This powerful episode brings together two mothers, Katrina Simmons and Christy Kastler, both of whom lost their sons to fentanyl poisoning after years battling addiction within their families. Through candid, emotional storytelling, they share the realities of the current drug landscape, the nuanced experiences of parenting through addiction, and their ongoing efforts to change stigma via their own podcast, DK805. Host Richard Taite, an addiction recovery expert, facilitates a raw, honest conversation on loss, resilience, systemic gaps, and the urgent need for awareness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Genesis and Mission of DK805

• Both mothers lost their sons, Devin and Dylan, at age 28, after long struggles with addiction and ultimately fentanyl poisoning.
• They channeled their grief into creating the "DK805" podcast to support, educate, and advocate for parents and families affected by the opioid crisis.
• The importance of "recovering out loud" and sharing personal stories is frequently emphasized:
  • “Do it scared. Do it loud. Recover out loud.” – Christy (00:00)
  • “If you’re healed, heal someone else. Let’s pass it on.” – Katrina (00:09)

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2. The Unnaturalness of Parental Loss & Stigma of Addiction

• Richard acknowledges the profound pain parents bear, stressing it’s an unnatural burden:
  • “It’s the single most unnatural thing a parent can do. … It’s not supposed to be where we bury our children.” – Richard (03:00)
• Both Katrina and Christy recount being ridiculed or shamed—for seeking help, publicizing their children's struggles, and confronting the stigmas around addiction and marijuana-induced psychosis (04:29–07:39).
• Richard fiercely rejects these criticisms:
  • “Anybody who would attack a parent after losing their child is a piece of shit. That’s it.” – Richard (07:32)

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3. The Boys’ Stories: Early Trauma, Addiction Progression, and Gaps in Care

Christy on Devin

• Devin, a sensitive, creative child, endured family traumas (aunt's and father's cancer diagnoses), and bullying (08:05–11:09).
• First used marijuana at 13 or 14, after overwhelming family stressors. Christy, following professionals’ advice, sent him to wilderness camp, which improved things but left feelings of abandonment (11:09–13:40).
• Devin’s exposure to opiates came from his father’s post-cancer medications, leading to heroin use by age 15; he experienced 18 rehab stays, frequent relapses, but also periods of sobriety (14:24–16:38).
• He died at 28, poised to return to treatment the next day. Both mothers assert their sons were “murdered, poisoned” by contaminated drug supply (16:49).

Katrina on Dylan

• Dylan’s struggles began with marijuana and escalated after moving to Arizona, then returning to California post-breakup. Binge drinking and isolation followed (21:12).
• Trauma history included the suicide of grandparents when Dylan was 14.
• He worked sporadically, loved skateboarding, and was described as gregarious and loving, but was hit hard by life’s setbacks (22:39–24:17).
• Katrina details how signs were subtle until things unraveled, emphasizing challenges of dual diagnosis—Dylan was diagnosed with schizophreniform, resisted treatment, and walked out of rehabs (28:19).
• Dylan succumbed to respiratory depression from a mix of alcohol, marijuana, and opioids/fentanyl shortly after a rehab stint (19:15–20:37).

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4. Systemic Barriers, Parental Shame, and The Search for Help

• Both mothers recount feelings of personal guilt and being shamed by others for seeking help, “enabling” their sons, or discussing their struggles (26:34–27:28).
• The isolating effects of social stigma and loss of friendships are discussed.
• Anxiety about “doing the right thing” haunts many parents; both women describe tough choices—cutting off support, refusing money/favors, but never love (34:06–34:50).
• Katrina: "If your child won’t get to therapy, you’ve got to go get Al Anon… Oxygen mask first." (35:01)

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5. Coping, Healing, and Moving Forward—or Pausing

• Richard stresses that therapy is essential and pushes both women to make a "contract" to pursue consistent grief therapy for their own healing (37:27–46:00). He highlights that parents cannot pour from an empty cup, and moving forward is not betrayal.
• Christy acknowledges that "the Christy who existed before Devin died is gone" and that she is surviving for her other children (36:05–36:29).
• Both mothers describe fluctuating between existing and living; Katrina finds solace in faith and nature, Christy in showing up for family (36:31–37:27).
• Grief is ongoing and cyclical: “There will always be a part of me that walks through the rest of this life on earth with pain in my heart.” – Christy (36:31)
• They discuss starting a grief retreat for mothers as another way to heal and connect (46:00).

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6. What They Wish People Understood

• Addiction is a disease, not a moral failing. Parents need support, not shame.
• The drug landscape has changed—"one pill, even one time, can be deadly" (Richard, 00:49).
• More accessible, immediate, and safe treatment resources are desperately needed, especially accessible detox and aftercare (51:25).
• Aftercare (therapy, support groups) is as crucial as rehab itself; relapse can be a part of recovery.

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7. Notable Quotes & Moments

On Grief and the Fight for Change:

• “No mother should be shamed, ever. However you can get healed and be healed… But to have it be a poison that was unavoidable and a murder is—I have answers. I have questions, and I want answers.” – Katrina (49:08–50:44)

On Parental Courage and Advocacy:

• “Do it scared. Do it loud. Recover out loud. Because in today's time, it’s either you recover or you die.” – Christy (00:00, 50:44)
• “Share your stories, and if you’re healed, heal someone else.” – Katrina (00:09, 50:56)

On the Need for Community:

• “Those boys want us to support each other, and they’re giving us the opportunity through these podcasts, through the sharing, through the community outreach… so I’m not alone. No, Katrina’s not alone.” – Christy (24:46)

On Therapy and Self-Care:

• “Therapy isn’t something you have to do. It’s something you get to do. It’s the ultimate luxury… there’s no shame in going to therapy.” – Richard (31:26)

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Recommended Actions & Available Resources

• If struggling with addiction or in crisis: Call One Call Placement: 888-831-1581 ([00:31]).
• For support and education: Follow/listen to the [DK805 Podcast: Breaking Stigmas].
• For rehab referrals: Reach out to Carrera Treatment Wellness and Spa, One Method Treatment Center, or similar organizations (52:06–54:28).
• For immediate help: Richard and guests encourage contacting reputable centers—they promise to help guide or refer if unable to assist directly (54:28).

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Time-Stamped Highlights

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–00:49 | Opening messages about stigma, urgency, and support lines | | 02:33–04:29 | Why this conversation is so hard but necessary | | 08:05–13:40 | Christy’s account of Devin’s early life and family traumas | | 14:24–16:38 | Path from early experimentation to heroin addiction | | 19:15–20:37 | Dylan’s toxicology, rehab, and circumstance of passing | | 21:12–24:46 | Katrina details Dylan’s life, addiction, and loss | | 26:34–28:08 | On stigma, parental shame, isolation | | 28:47–34:50 | Experiences with dual diagnosis, therapy, and tough choices | | 36:05–37:27 | Grief, life after loss, showing up for others | | 46:00–47:01 | Katrina’s vision for grief retreat for mothers | | 50:44–51:25 | Speaking out, breaking stigma, and urgent realities | | 54:28–55:12 | Rehab accessibility and the importance of aftercare | | 56:36–57:02 | DK805 Podcast origins and mission statement | | 58:53–59:55 | The “contract” for therapy as self-care and prevention |

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How to Reach the Guests & Their Advocacy

• DK805 Podcast: A forum by two mothers, named for their sons (Devin/Katrina, Dylan/Kristy, and their 805 area code).
• Both women are active in local and online parent support, grief retreats, and legislative advocacy.

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Closing Thoughts

Richard’s message and the mothers’ journeys converge on a vital point: The fentanyl epidemic is a catastrophic crisis fueled by stigma, ignorance, and systemic gaps. At the same time, recovery, hope, and support are possible—but only through connection, open dialogue, and accessible care. This episode is a call to parents, professionals, and all Americans to educate themselves, speak out, offer support, and remember: we’re out of time.

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Memorable closing:

• “Do it scared. Do it loud. Recover out loud. Because in today’s time, it’s either you recover or you die.” – Christy (50:44)
• “Share your stories, and if you’re healed, heal someone else. Let’s pass it on.” – Katrina (00:09, 50:56)

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For more information, resources, and to connect:

• [DK805 Podcast]
• Carrera Treatment Wellness & Spa
• One Method Treatment Centers
• One Call Placement: 888-831-1581

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If you or someone you love is struggling, please reach out. Awareness and conversation can save lives.

Transcript

[Christy Kastler]

Do it scared. Do it loud. Recover out loud.

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes.

[Christy Kastler]

Because in today's time, it's either you recover, you die.

[Katrina Simmons]

Share your stories, and if you're healed, heal someone else. I mean, let's pass it on.

[Christy Kastler]

If someone has a problem with substance use disorder, please call one call placement. That's 888-831-1581. And if we can't help you, we'll make a referral to someone who can. One call placement is affiliated with Carrera Treatment Wellness and Spa and One Method Treatment Centers.

[Richard]

Before we start, I just want to say this. What you're about to hear is real and it's happening every single day. Please don't assume it can't happen to you or your family today. One pill, even one time, can be deadly. If it's not prescribed to you, do not take it. Have Narcan on hand and make sure you know how to use can save a life in minutes. And most importantly, talk to your kids, your friends, your loved ones. The drug supply has changed. Oh. Awareness and conversation can save lives. We're out of Time. Today on we're out of Time, I'm joined by Katrina Simmons and Christy Kastler. They're two mothers who each lost their sons, Dylan and Devin, to a poisoning. After years of trying to help their children through addiction, they experienced firsthand how dangerous today's drug supply has become and how quickly things can turn fatal. They've now turned that loss into a podcast, DK805, where they're working to raise awareness and help other families avoid the same tragedy. This is a difficult but important conversation about addiction, loss, and what people need to understand right now. Christina and Christy, thank you both for being here.

[Katrina Simmons]

Thank you, Richard, for having us. Yeah, we do have that happen often. Katrina and Christy, we. We usually announce ourselves as the opposite name. We'll say. I'll say it's Christy and Katrina. But thank you for having us. It's been a. We were trying to connect for a while.

[Richard]

Well, I. I can tell you the honest answer for that right now. Why I've been jerking you guys around.

[Katrina Simmons]

Oh, you haven't been. No, we've been.

[Richard]

Oh, actually, I was. No, no, no, no. I was. Okay, let me tell you why I was. Because you guys have more courage than I do. See, I started this thing because it's really why I came back to work and why I started this podcast. I've never seen a podcast. I've never listened to a podcast. Okay. But my idea was, I'm going to scream this Thing from the mountaintops like you guys are doing all the time. And I started out that way, and it just took a toll on me.

[Katrina Simmons]

It does.

[Richard]

And I'd cry like a little baby. Okay. I was like, a little. Every time we had to talk about it. Okay. And because it's the single most unnatural thing that a parent can do. It's not supposed to be that way. It's not supposed to be where we bury our children. That's not the way this is supposed to work. It's unnecess. Natural. And the reason I jerked you guys around was because every time I do this, I take your grief and I put it on to me like it's happening to me same. I know. That's why I said, I don't do this all the time. Okay? And. And you have more courage than I do. So thank you guys for doing this. The first thing I want you to do is tell me about your boys.

[Katrina Simmons]

Sorry.

[Richard]

I know it's the worst.

[Katrina Simmons]

We've come so far. We've interviewed other moms. We've come so far. I think maybe just how you acknowledge that. It's so hard. It's so hard. We've been through ridicule, We've listened to. We put our son's stories out there to save others and to raise awareness for the fentanyl crisis, that is. And then I started going into the. The beginning with weed. Weed psychosis, which I experienced with my son Dylan, and trying to save him from that in the very early stages that I was ridiculed for that. I just sort of wasn't. There wasn't any ridiculed, there wasn't any help at that time. But when we. When I met. When I shared the story, every 11 minutes, I shared his story. People that have their. That there's a real protective bubble over their own. Their own love for the. The. For cannabis, for weed, for their. It was my son's story somehow triggered their defensiveness of that. I was saying, it's not good for. I. I had to reframe it. I had to do a little video the next day. I had people saying. I mean, it was my son's loss. It was baby pictures of him. It was how I. It was his toxicology report. And I had shared that all. He had alcohol, high strains of weed, which are the high strains, 9 and 10, you know, the synthetic layers. And then there was trace levels, not even a lethal dose of fenol in his system. And when I shared that, people, this was way back. This was when we first Started.

[Christy Kastler]

Well, Katrina, I feel like she was ridiculed because people did not want to believe that something. Marijuana is slaves. Right.

[Katrina Simmons]

So there was. And there was a protection. I felt like, you know, so.

[Christy Kastler]

Or.

[Katrina Simmons]

Or. Well, just. Even just the. I had to deal with that. Like, I put a protective labor. I had to really shut down because the. The remarks were. Your son must have been an idiot.

[Richard]

Hold on, hold on, hold on a second. Okay? You're always going to be ridiculed by drug addicts because they're going to defend their right to drink and use. Okay? But they're idiots. They don't know any better. Okay? And I sincerely. I see that it bothered you, and I'm sorry. Just think about who these people are for a minute, okay? We have a mother that lost their child and you have a bunch of idiots, okay, that are gonna sit there and pile on you. Listen, just. Just rest with the knowledge.

[Christy Kastler]

Yeah.

[Richard]

That these people are pieces of. And they are going to amount to nothing. Okay?

[Katrina Simmons]

What it did.

[Richard]

Yeah, that's bad. That's bad. But it's also a fact.

[Christy Kastler]

Yeah.

[Richard]

Okay. These people are garbage. Anybody who would attack a parent after losing their child is a piece of shit. That's it. So I want to move on from that because that's the mic drop moment.

[Christy Kastler]

Yeah.

[Richard]

Christy, tell me about your son, Devin.

[Christy Kastler]

Devin was a larger than life little boy. He was full. He was the typical child who was add. Couldn't sit in the chair. Dreams bigger than any anything. He wanted to be. He would always say, when he grows up, he wants to be as a. Oh, you start crying, I'll start crying. When he was a little boy, he used to always say, when he grew up, he wanted to be a vegetarian. What that meant is he wanted to be a veterinarian. And so he would always say he wanted to be a vegetarian. And then as he got older, he was the one that was tapping the desk, jumping out of his seat. And like any mom, I'm trying to find what is going to work for my child to get him through the school systems. He was bullied as a little boy because he was a big boy, meaning tall. He was always taller than his average peer. So he was asked to be in sports. And he wasn't a sports kid. He was sensitive. He was a musician. He loved the animals. One of the earliest stories I remember of Devin that I told at his celebration of life is he came home from school one day and he was really upset. Oh, there goes the tears. And I said, death, what's wrong? Tell me what's going on with you? And he said, mom, the kids are. They pushed me down on the playground and they were making fun of me. And I said, well, what happened? And he said, I was pushing this, a special needs kit on the swing set. And they said if I played with that person, that I can't be their friend. And so he always had this wonderful, sensitive heart. And then as time went on, his. My sister, when Devin was 8 years old, was diagnosed with breast cancer. And so Devin was eight at that time. And we went through. He saw firsthand what cancer can do to somebody. I had a niece and a nephew that were 10 months old and 3 years old when my sister was diagnosed with cancer. She fought a hard battle for four years, and then she passed away. But I ended up being one of the primary caregivers for my sister's kids at that time. So emotionally I was all over the place. My sister died in 2010, 2007. And then in 2008, Devin's dad was diagnosed with a cancer that was, we were told was a terminal cancer.

[Katrina Simmons]

It's.

[Christy Kastler]

It's multiple myeloma. So Devin was only 12 years old at that time. 13 years old. He had an older person introduce him to marijuana. And so he was young, he was 13, 14. And you have to remember where I am emotionally. My sister just died. I was told that their dad isn't healthy. Emotionally, I was processing. And so when I found out that Devin was using marijuana, I did a scared straight program. Like I did what the professionals told me to do because I knew I couldn't parent him on my own. I knew it was too much for me. So we sent him to a wilderness camp, which ultimately he enjoyed, the wilderness camp. But he also felt abandoned at that age.

[Richard]

How old was he?

[Christy Kastler]

He was 14, 13 or 14. I'm going back in my brain. But it wasn't the wilderness camp that made him feel abandoned. What made him feel abandoned, we had to work through this in counseling ourselves, is how I went about getting him to the wilderness camp. I was told medically just to do whatever I could to get him. So at this point, Devin's like 14. He's six two. I basically told him we were going to Arizona, got him on an airplane, met with the wilderness camp there, and then they took him for a 30 day program. I never gave him the opportunity to tell me he wasn't going. I never sat down with him and said, I can't do this. I basically said, I did what the medical professionals told me.

[Richard]

Can I tell you Something. I need you to leave that with me. You did nothing wrong.

[Christy Kastler]

No, I tried to protect my child, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's not still hurt him. And it doesn't take away from the fact that it still caused him abandonment. Devin and I work through it. And the only reason why I think it's important to tell this part of the story, because as families go through struggles with their loved ones, I have to take an ownership in where I hurt my child. Doing the best I knew to do.

[Richard]

No, I can't hear it. I don't even have an ear for it.

[Christy Kastler]

But it gives him an opportunity to heal, and it gave me an opportunity to build that bridge. But you did the best I did. I don't feel guilty. I don't feel guilty.

[Richard]

Is it ideal to be able to sit down with your child. Okay. And get him on board with the decision? Absolutely it is. That's ideal. Okay. But by hook or crook, it's so dangerous.

[Katrina Simmons]

You get that kid help.

[Christy Kastler]

Yeah.

[Richard]

Because we're out of time.

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes.

[Richard]

As you know.

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes. Right.

[Christy Kastler]

And then moving on from there. I feel like Devin never. How could I say this? Devin was introduced to. He came back home from the wilderness camp, and he was clean for a while, but then his dad had the opiates from his cancer treatment. And so now Devin's 15 and curious and still in pain, and still we have cancer going on in our home. We have. It was. It just was not the perfect home life given the trauma in the home or the struggles within the home. It was hard. And so. Yeah. And so he started taking his dad's pain meds are. And I didn't understand. It was the opiates as oxycodone. So as soon as we figured out what was happening, I started locking everything up. Just locking everything up, not understanding what withdrawal looked like. So he went to the streets. He did go to the streets. And when he went to the streets, he was 15 years old when somebody injected him with heroin. 15. And so I tell this story. My not makes me cry sometimes. I tell this story that Devin chased sobriety and I chased him in going through the story, as parents, you do hear all types of things about how. What I should be doing with my son. We sent him to wilderness camp. We sent him to boarding school. I. We sent him to sober livings.

[Richard]

We.

[Christy Kastler]

He went in and out of rehab. And I'm not being sarcastic when I say Hollywood. Okay, go ahead.

[Richard]

I get it. I get it. 8 or 18.

[Christy Kastler]

No, about 18. Times he was sober as much as he was relapsing.

[Richard]

How old was he when he. When he was murdered?

[Christy Kastler]

He was 8. He was 28 years old. And it is. And it. That is the right.

[Katrina Simmons]

That's the right.

[Christy Kastler]

It is the right term.

[Katrina Simmons]

I mean, our boys were. Were poisoned. They were. They were taken there was that. Devin was going to rehab the next morning, backpacked, and my son was. Had just left rehab.

[Richard]

And.

[Katrina Simmons]

And they were. They're poisoned. They were murdered. They were taken from us.

[Richard]

That happens to us all the time at Carrera. We try to get people in the door immediately.

[Katrina Simmons]

Okay.

[Richard]

We have already had at least two and maybe three circumstances where people made an appointment to come to rehab and not just got in the car and went, right, okay. And we're like calling to reach them. And finally we get parents and they're like, oh, my kid's dead. No, he died.

[Katrina Simmons]

I would call, like, on the road with him driving. I'm coming wherever we're going. And I'm like, I'm screaming, you get my son in now. Or this is going to be like when. Especially when there was a psychosis happen, which I. I witnessed firsthand, which I now want to raise awareness for the weed psychos, which is. That was where it started for my son, for Dylan. And it's. I was trying so hard. I was racing, like, crying and screaming, and they were just like, is he. Is he using now? Or. I didn't know what he was. I didn't know what a psychosis was. I do now. I do know now, but it's. It's only like now, after. But it was like I was. I could see the train coming and calling on the phone to get him in, you know, get him where he needed to go. And it's. It's awful.

[Richard]

So. So the reason the people were. Were abusing you online is because the marriage, the marijuana psychosis is rare.

[Katrina Simmons]

Well, it's more and more. It's very. It's not as rare now. Yes.

[Richard]

Well, okay, it's. It's look, right, it's happening.

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes.

[Richard]

Okay. But it's rare.

[Katrina Simmons]

Yeah.

[Richard]

I don't know what the numbers are, but it's not half and it ain't a third and it's not a quarter. Okay. It's. It's somewhere below 10. It really is. I don't know where it is, but that's my experience. So what I want to know is how, How Katrina, how did your. How was your child. What did he do to die? Did he ingest a pill that's unknown.

[Katrina Simmons]

I do not know. I just know.

[Richard]

Did you have a toxicology report?

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes.

[Richard]

What. What did the toxicology report say?

[Katrina Simmons]

He had 014 alcohol. He had Delta 9, Delta 10. He had. I can. I have it. I could read it. But then the 11 ng ML of. And. And it's so it's 2mg for a lethal dose of that.

[Richard]

And how much. And how much did he have?

[Katrina Simmons]

11 nanograms, which is a nanom.

[Richard]

What did they say he died of?

[Katrina Simmons]

He succumbed to his respiratory because all combined the alcohol and he was tired. I can see that he had. He left rehab. He was. It was like he was out of his time of. I can outrun done this. And he had left his father's. His dad had put him in rehab. He left and we had just done that like two weeks prior. With me at art. We live in California. His dad's in Arizona. And my. Dylan was. He was a skateboarder. He was. He was out in his. Mine out running. He was at like.

[Richard]

Can I. Can I tell you what it was, what I think it was? Yes, it was the combination, but it was predominantly opioids.

[Katrina Simmons]

Yeah.

[Richard]

Okay. And it could have been heroin or anything. And the reason it was okay is because his respiratory system slowed to the point where it stopped.

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes.

[Richard]

And that's. And that's what happens a heroin addict. Right. What feels the best for an intravenous heroin user is to get as close to dead as humanly possible without actually dying. That is the sweet spot. That's what feels the best. So lay people don't understand that unless you're on it. Unless you've had that physical experience.

[Katrina Simmons]

Right.

[Richard]

Okay. I want to. I want to get back to Katrina. When did you first realize something was really wrong with Dylan and what did that journey look like trying to help him?

[Katrina Simmons]

It really took as. I mean, it was shocking when it presented. Dylan decided to leave California to go at 20 after breaking up with a girl to Arizona where his dad had moved. So there was the breakup there. So it was. Yes, I knew he did smoke weed. We thought that. I thought that was the lighter thing, but. Because he didn't do anything. There was. He was graduating. He was meeting markers. He graduated high school. He went to film, you know, editing. Film editing school where he was going to pursue. Pursue that. But he didn't. But he did complete it. He was. The girlfriend really kind of covered that because they had friends and they were happy. There was no. There was no real signs that there was a problem that wasn't until, like I said, he went away to Arizona. He came back, his girlfriend had. There was a breakup. She had met someone else. There was that pain. But so he came back to live with us in California and it was like overnight. Alcohol for him was the fuel. And it was. So he came back with like just overnight. It was a. It was a disaster. My. My baby was like. His eyes changed. He was drinking. I found bottles in his room of vodka. He couldn't get his girlfriend back. He was, they were under the bed, they were under his. You know, he was isolating, playing video games and we were trying to get him to get out and get, you know.

[Richard]

What did he do? What did he do for a living?

[Katrina Simmons]

Well, in restaurant stuff, just working, like, you know, working part time, doing like really easy stuff he could do where he could still continue to drink. He was doing like, how, how often?

[Richard]

How what, at what age did he pass?

[Katrina Simmons]

28. 28.

[Richard]

Both of you guys were 28?

[Katrina Simmons]

28.

[Christy Kastler]

The story, how, the story, how Katrina and I met is very interesting.

[Richard]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Were the boys friends?

[Katrina Simmons]

No, no.

[Christy Kastler]

But interesting enough going back in my brain, I'm sure that Devin and Dylan both were at the same sober living house at the same time.

[Katrina Simmons]

We have a memory of that, like interaction or her maybe giving Dylan a ride. He has a skate. He was an avid skateboarder, so his whole life was very adventurous. Like he would jump off of roofs into open in pools. So he was like, so nothing other than just. He had an outgo. Very outgoing, gregarious person, personality, beautiful, larger than life. He could have, you know, been on any cover of any magazine. Just beautiful inside and out, like, happy, always laughing, loved to make people laugh. And he, he loved skateboarding. I mean, he could have gone pro had he gone that way. But the girlfriend really was a, if I say a trauma hit. And then we had a. He lost his grandparents to a double suicide when he was 14. So that was like down there and there was this stuff that was down there. So when you guys don't have any

[Richard]

good news, you guys have nothing but news. You guys have had a real hard time.

[Christy Kastler]

We've had a very, very hard time. But the good news is how we survive this is. We have to reframe it. And I, I firmly believe that Devin and Dylan are up in heaven giving each other high fives because they brought the two of us together.

[Katrina Simmons]

It's so random how we did get come together that it, it's, it. There's no coincidences in, in this and they are. They. They did struggle and they did get poisoned. That this is a time of. Had they not, our boys would have been. I mean, this wouldn't have happened. It just. Just wouldn't have happened had it not been felt.

[Christy Kastler]

And so that those boys. Those boys want us to support each other, and they're giving us the opportunity through these podcasts, through the sharing, through the community outreach to be here for each other. So I'm not alone. No, Katrina's not alone.

[Katrina Simmons]

And their stories are beautiful, you know, alongside of the other, alongside the things we're sharing now that, you know, are like, this is our worst nightmare is that they're. They're beautiful boys and they're with us constantly. They send us incredible signs. They are, you know, just the. They knew we were struggling with just like, finding that, like, you want to. You just. You feel lost. And I didn't. You wanted, like, to hear someone else had to have the, you know, same age and the DK and all this was just. They.

[Christy Kastler]

We met each other over the Internet and we live within two miles from each other.

[Katrina Simmons]

There's no way. Our son stories can't just sound just, you know, I just will say, along with all of the. The stripe. The struggles of trying to save and rescue your child when they have addiction issues, which they. The boys did. They. They found something that unlocked that key inside of them that covered and took away that pain for them. And books are written, Matthew. All. All the stories we know. But with our boys, they also shared with us a huge gift of love and light. And they were pure like they just were. They. They wouldn't. They would. They would give their things to other people. People. They were these. They were. That's what they want us to do, is help other moms survive this. When you get that call, you are. You are. Your. Your life is over. I. I want. I went to the ER and I wanted to be hooked up to the machine. I was. That was it.

[Richard]

So. So what do you wish more people understood about addiction from a parent's perspective?

[Christy Kastler]

Don't shame the breaking stigmas. Don't shame the parents that are trying to help them. It's the only illness that. That I know.

[Richard]

Who shamed you for trying to help your son?

[Christy Kastler]

Oh, gosh. It's the comments that people make.

[Katrina Simmons]

Well, you're damned if you do. You're. If you enable, you're an enabler. And now the time of F gives you.

[Christy Kastler]

No.

[Katrina Simmons]

If they leave the house, there's a risk of them at any second taking something that someone Gives them and.

[Richard]

Wait a minute, you guys, hold on. You guys didn't have a podcast until after your children were murdered. Okay, so who. Please help me to understand who gave you grief over getting your children help.

[Katrina Simmons]

First and foremost, it's us. It's ourselves as a mother. We're here. It's our job to protect our children.

[Richard]

Thank you.

[Katrina Simmons]

It's us.

[Richard]

Thank you.

[Katrina Simmons]

But it is. You do lose social. You do lose your friendships. You do lose people that can't. They can't walk with you in grief. And there is a shame around addiction and passing of it. So even during the time of my son's struggle, I kept a lot of that to myself without sharing it, even with my closest friends, because, one, I didn't want it to be something he overcame and we fixed. And he didn't want this out there and have it be his life told. So he had that. But we keep it to ourselves. We run at a million miles a minute. We go to work while we're doing it, and we try to put a smile on our face while our baby is our children. Child is always our baby. Did you go get.

[Richard]

Did you go get therapy with him?

[Katrina Simmons]

I. I did. I started al Anon.

[Richard]

Okay. Did you guys ever go to therapy with your children?

[Katrina Simmons]

Oh, yes.

[Christy Kastler]

Talk it through for years.

[Katrina Simmons]

Okay. And I'm a little different in that my, my. Dylan did not. He was opposed to therapy. He was. He very much so. Had the psychosis. He was diagnosed with schizophreniform, which is that in use. He denied. He walked out of rehabs over and over because his mind told him he did not need to be there or take the medication to stabilize his brain. So we were. It was a dual diagnosis and his mind told him he did not need help.

[Richard]

Today, about 75% of the people that come into treatment have a dual diagnosis. Okay. So that's not rare at all.

[Katrina Simmons]

Can you.

[Richard]

Can. Can you walk us through what happened the day you lost them and how quickly things unfolded?

[Katrina Simmons]

So I threw up in the shower for hour two. My brother came from. We live in a small. We lived. Anyways, he came from where we lived growing up and he. He lives raising his family there. He showed up. Everything was a blur. And I thought in my mind, I thought, that's it. I'm going to go to hospital now. I will just be on a machine for the rest of my life. It was going to be. That was in my mind. I went to the ER and I just couldn't even process that this, that I would ever go Past that day, my life was over. It's surreal. Something comes over you where you are not. You're walking. You are in a. Yeah. I just. I still feel. I could. I still feel sick, nauseous, thinking about how that moment felt.

[Richard]

Do you guys feel good about doing this podcast?

[Christy Kastler]

Not always, no.

[Katrina Simmons]

Not always, no.

[Richard]

Thank you for saying that, because there's no way you can feel good about this. You have to do it, because you're heroes. People listen, people watch, and you're gonna save who knows how many parents the grief, but you are.

[Katrina Simmons]

We have. I mean, we've shared with each other. I. I've shared with Christie since we've gotten to know each other, and it's been under a year that we. You know, when we first met, it really sort of was just this, like, organic sharing our story that we felt not. Not, you know, not shamed. We felt we were understood and just that. That the word was. You know, everything was. Again, none of that was being talked about. So she's heard. Had to hear me share my. I am. I am pissed. I am angry that I was actually writing on the. My social media. Time was spent like, why are the borders open? Why? And I was seeing things. I was seeing, like, crazy things happen where my son did not want to get in the COVID When Covid hit, he got told to leave a rehab because he wouldn't get vaccinated. These are things that happened that I was. I was, like, ready to write. Let. I was, you know, I was. I was becoming that person that was going to go to the White House and write, you know, what's going on?

[Christy Kastler]

Can I.

[Richard]

Can I ask a question? When was the first time you put your son into therapy?

[Katrina Simmons]

He was 13 when they went. And it wasn't enough.

[Richard]

Okay, I know. I understand that. How long did he go for?

[Katrina Simmons]

Not long enough. They went for about six months.

[Richard]

Okay. Therapy isn't something you have to do. It's something you get to do. It's the ultimate luxury. There is no shame in your going to therapy. It's the way elegant people deal with their stressors. And I want people to know that at the first sign of. Of a problem. The very first sign, yes. They immediately go to therapy. And then you gauge it to see what's going on to determine whether or not you need to send them to rehab. Now, there's a caveat to that. The caveat is what you catch him using. Okay? That's the caveat. If it was marijuana or drinking, you're going straight to the therapist. If it's pills or powders, okay, you're going straight to rehab. That's the rule. Okay? But you guys didn't know this then. You guys did everything you could. Could. You are good mothers. You did the best you could. I'm sorry, honey.

[Christy Kastler]

It's okay. We don't.

[Katrina Simmons]

You got to know.

[Christy Kastler]

But as parents, we don't feel like that.

[Richard]

But it doesn't matter how you feel. Your grief is. Your feelings are valid, but they're not facts. Okay? And I'm. And I'm telling you, you guys did the best you could. You didn't sit there and do nothing.

[Katrina Simmons]

No.

[Richard]

You know how difficult it is.

[Katrina Simmons]

It's 24 hours a day.

[Richard]

I deal with these kids all the time. They don't want to hear it. They aren't told. You know, all these things, okay. And they just don't listen. And if you have a kid like that, you are in. You have to be on it. And you cannot make a mistake because it's not that type of child.

[Katrina Simmons]

And that is why you can't like. Okay. I started al Anon and in Al Anon, very early on it was hearing stories like where the. A grandmother was sharing how they had kidnapped their granddaughter. Get them across the border to a Tijuana rehab because she refused to go. And I thought to myself, like it. It. It's things you never ever think you'd even ever hear in your life. These things that are. That happen, happen. But when. When someone is addicted or they're. They're willful and. And that's like you said, it feels like you're being. It's the manipulation. It's all that. But there's this love that is there to save them. There is no right or wrong way. You there. But again they. If they don't go to.

[Richard]

Did you cut them off?

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes, I did.

[Christy Kastler]

I did and I didn't.

[Richard]

Right. This is. This.

[Katrina Simmons]

Dylan was 23 when I said no more. And I said I will not pay for. You know, unless it's sober living and rehab. He was couch surfing with friends. That all that goes on and on. I won't pay for fines. I will never let you not go without. I will never let you go hungry. You'll never have. I mean I. That we. All those things we did. This is. This is Alan on thinking it was not.

[Richard]

Did you throw him out of the house?

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes.

[Richard]

Take away his credit cards, gas card?

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes. Then the DUI started happening and then we wouldn't help with any more. All that was done. Then he's you know, it's. It goes on and it goes on and it goes on.

[Richard]

You did the right thing.

[Katrina Simmons]

It still ended in this. This way.

[Richard]

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

[Katrina Simmons]

And that's why we're here to advocate for how to take care of yourself during the process. Because we didn't have people helping. We were like. She was struggling with, like she shared as the things we all have in our lives are all different, but we're all the same in one way. That life does have to go on, even though your child is struggling. So you have to put on. And this is what she said, obviously, to help make sense that she's an airline attendant. Put on your oxygen mask first. You have to. If your child won't get to therapy, you've got to go get Al Anon. You've got to go get a way to find that you can first of all feel you're not alone in this oxygen awful run for, you know, every day. You never know what's coming. And it is, it's. It's one day at a time, but you are in a run. And it is the most painful journey of. I wouldn't. Of anything that I can think of.

[Richard]

What are you guys doing right now for your own mental health?

[Katrina Simmons]

Okay.

[Richard]

Because you're re injuring yourself every time you have this conversation and you can't let it go, which means you're not living. You're existing.

[Christy Kastler]

I think that there's a difference between existing and thriving. And for me, I have other children. I do have other children with the morning Devin died, that individual, that Christy died as well. I am not the same person when Devin was alive.

[Katrina Simmons]

Those moms are gone. That version of that mom is gone.

[Christy Kastler]

And in that, in that death of Devin, I have to allow myself grief. There will always be a part of me that walks through the rest of this life on earth with pain in my heart. That's a given. I'm always going to carry a little bit of sadness with. With me. But my. My other children deserve a mom. They deserve a mom that still honors their life. They're on this side. They are here and they. It's not my children's responsibility to take care of me emotionally. It's my job as their mom to say, I'm still here. I still honor you.

[Richard]

Excellent. What are you doing?

[Katrina Simmons]

I go to Al Anon and I still share with many people the part. And for me, I. My faith is. Is carries me and that is what I do share with anyone that wants to.

[Richard]

Are you Guys in therapy?

[Katrina Simmons]

Am I in therapy?

[Richard]

Are either of you in therapy?

[Christy Kastler]

No, I. I do have a therapist.

[Richard]

Okay, how often do you go to your therapist?

[Christy Kastler]

I go to my therapist. Not probably enough.

[Katrina Simmons]

Okay, so I'm going to ask you a question.

[Richard]

So I go three times a week. I go three times a week. And I own the finest drug and alcohol treatment facility in the world. And Newsweek just called me the king of rehab. I am the most over therapized person on the planet because I need containment and I want to be the best version of myself. Okay, you want to go to a therapist?

[Katrina Simmons]

Has that therapist lost a child?

[Richard]

Hold on a second.

[Katrina Simmons]

Has that therapist been through the life addiction?

[Richard]

Then we then all find you a therapist that lost their child. How's that?

[Katrina Simmons]

Well, if that exists, then I would

[Richard]

go, hey guys, I'm not beating you up. I think you two are the salt of the earth. You're the best women I've ever spoken to. And I've done this a little bit now. Okay? My heart breaks for you, but I want to get to the living part because this is. You're never going to get past this, ever.

[Christy Kastler]

That's a true statement. That's a true statement. You can move forward.

[Richard]

Christie, you're doing the right thing because you're showing up for your other kids. Okay? So that in itself is healing. Okay? But the two of you need to go to therapy. You have to. This is a non starter. You can't sit here. What you guys are doing right now is a gift to humanity. But it's injuring you every single time you open your mouth.

[Katrina Simmons]

I disagree. I'm sorry. So please tell me.

[Richard]

Because I'm willing to be wrong.

[Katrina Simmons]

Because. Because each time we. We. We first, like as I said, I take everything to the Lord for me. So whoever, whatever you choose for your higher power, whatever that source is for me, I know that this is not a. A punishment. That this is not something that I'm going to be. That this. This what? That I'm not the only one. I know that there are children dying around the world. There are people dying in war. This, this is a. This is a weapon of mass destruction for this generation. And if anything, this has created in me an ability to use a voice that was dampened down. So when I do get done with the podcast and I, I do kind of, I have to take time and go away. I found a grief retreat space. I go up to the mountains, I'm alone. I go into nature, I go into peace. I. I prayer, meditate. And I will Be. And I am a stepmother. I am a wife. I own my own business. And I keep going because I know that God wants me to.

[Richard]

You guys need a therapist. And I would suggest, okay, Mondays and Thursdays. And you know what? If we can't find someone who has lost their child, how about we find someone, okay, that fits? Someone that's had this experience with other clients. Someone who. Who knows what they're talking about. A good therapist. Depending on. On the. On. The therapist can do grief counseling while moving you forward.

[Katrina Simmons]

But we are moving forward.

[Christy Kastler]

So I'm not. I'm not moving forward. And I will tell you you why I'm not moving forward.

[Richard]

Before you do that, I don't want you to forget what you're saying.

[Christy Kastler]

Okay?

[Richard]

Okay.

[Katrina Simmons]

Okay.

[Richard]

If you're not with a therapist, then you may be moving forward incrementally, but you will get relief. And that's what I want for you. Listen, I love God more than anybody, okay? More than anybody. Talk to him all day long. Never talks back to me. Still waiting. Okay, but here's the thing. He wants us to have relief. He wants it, okay? I'm telling you, he does.

[Katrina Simmons]

Pages. Yeah, Right.

[Christy Kastler]

I believe that.

[Richard]

That's right. Now, I'm sorry. Sorry I interrupted you.

[Christy Kastler]

I was saying that there is a part of me that I have put on pause. And part of the reason I have paused is because I'm in the middle of a court case. And if I am completely transparent, there's a part of me that is scared of the pain I feel. So if I keep it in a box, I can go to work, I can put on a happy face, I can be there for my other children. But that Pandora box that can open up scares me. And I know it's limiting, but in my coping mechanism, I think that the heart and the brain. I have the sword between the heart and the brain, is that it only lets a certain amount of pain in at a time so I can continue to be functional. I'm not saying it's right. And I agree that I do need therapist.

[Richard]

You're in a court case and your son was murdered. You need support.

[Christy Kastler]

I do. I do. Yeah, you do.

[Richard]

You do. So just because you're in a court case doesn't mean you can't do two hours of therapy a week.

[Christy Kastler]

That is a true statement.

[Richard]

It's going to give you relief. And I know you're scared because everybody's scared.

[Christy Kastler]

I am.

[Richard]

Everybody's scared. It's okay.

[Christy Kastler]

One of the things I used to always tell Devin and I Need to do it myself. Is do it scared.

[Katrina Simmons]

Do it scared.

[Christy Kastler]

Do it scared.

[Richard]

Because you know how you do it scared.

[Christy Kastler]

You just do it.

[Richard]

You run through that wall. You don't think about it. You just do it.

[Christy Kastler]

I will take referrals. I will take your suggestions.

[Richard]

I know I've interrupted you guys a bunch. I know that I've come off harsh, okay? It's just I look at you guys and I'm trying to give you a little bit of relief and I see you guys in so much pain and stuck in it. It's not that you're not doing God's work. It's not that you're not doing the right thing helping other people. And it's not that you didn't do the right thing with your, your kids. You did the best you could and you did great. Okay? The results suck in the worst possible way, but you did okay. You did good. Really. Okay? But I really need you to understand because really, the only reason I'm on this call today is to give you guys something. And the something that I want to give you is a new start. Because we only get one go at this, okay? We're only. We only get one turn at life. We're all here on loan, okay? And you guys are doing good, but at the end of the day, okay, you're grief stricken. And I just wanted a little less, just a little less every week, just a little less. Because after a year your life is like this and after 10, it's like that. And it'll never go away, ever. But I want you guys to have a life so you can show up for the other relationships in your life and show up for your. Yourself. And I want you to be happy. And here's, here's a little leverage for you, okay? You will be able to help more people if you help yourselves, right?

[Katrina Simmons]

So for me, I have four years. Dylan, will he have. May 22, 2022 is when my son passed. That's coming up on. So the anniversary dates. All dates are hard. Birthdays and. But this is the harder of them. His transition home date. And as I'm coming up on four years, my next journey will be to start a grief retreat. I've already started that process. I have already committed to having people come and where mothers can come and we already have the space. It's in the mountains. It's very peaceful. Mothers can come together. I've already had people reach out to where we could, you know, make the meals that our sons, our children, daughters, sons loved, share time Share stories, share memories. That's healing. Being in nature where there is no. There's no noise. It's not a podcast. It's not the story. It's not the ugly of what happened. It's not the poison that's happening to some. Every day. You can turn on the news. That's the healing part.

[Richard]

If your sons could speak to people struggling right now, what do you think they would say?

[Christy Kastler]

I think Devin would say, I'm going to be. Yeah, he probably. He probably say, listen to your mom. But he would also say, build the relationship with yourself first. The most important relationship is the one that you can have with yourself. And I think he would also, knowing Devin's personality, walk through life with kindness. Yeah, Just being kind is easier. It's just easier on life when we're kind and when we show kindness to somebody else, we need to turn that inward to ourselves. Because Devin was one of the kindest people I knew, but he beat him up. He beat himself up so much. And so it's giving ourselves grace as well.

[Katrina Simmons]

Yeah. Dylan would say the same. He would say first. I know he was first. He said he took it too far. I heard him say that when I got that phone call. I'm sorry, Mom, I took it too far. And he would say, it's okay to be vulnerable, and it's okay to say, you need help, and you need to say that.

[Richard]

When did he say. When did he say he took it too far?

[Katrina Simmons]

He would always say that. That was the thing. He had two sayings growing up would be, I took it because he was a skateboarder. There was a lot of action, a lot of things. All the time. I took it too far. And one more time where his two things he said. He said one more time. And that was because he liked attention. He liked us to watch him do his tricks.

[Christy Kastler]

And.

[Katrina Simmons]

But I took it too far was what came into my head immediately was I took it too far, mom. And I'm so sorry. Because he kn. He knew that I was going to have to endure this now. So Dylan died in the height of. Which is 20, 22. There was nothing being spoken of it at that time. You couldn't see it on the news. No word was mentioned of it. I would. Dylan leaving rehab. No one in rehab at that time was saying, there's this thing called. That is like in a pill or he can smoke it. It can be touching another substance. If he comes in contact with someone that's using something. It was not being spoken of. I didn't know Anything about fentanyl and the epidemic that it became and is the crisis that it is. So that's to raise awareness for that we know again, the people that have lost now are now coming in, also sharing their stories. We are one of so many. There's the walks, the Shatterproof Walks. There's Walk for Life, There's United Against Fell. There are. It's the highest rate of deaths between 18 to 40 in ever. Of this. Of this, of our lifetime. We will look back at this time of life as that there was so much that could have been done. What, why, why it wasn't done and how it was allowed to get this far is something that, like I said, that is my fight, that is therapeutic in its own right, because it is a fire in me that I can use my voice. My voice does matter. And I will not be silenced. And I will break stigma and I will break shame, because no mother should be shamed ever. And however you can get healed and be healed, if the worst nightmare comes to your phone, you lose your child, however that happens. But to have it be a poison that was unavoidable and a murder is. I have answers. I have questions and I want answers. So that's, you know, I'll continue until that. Until we get some.

[Christy Kastler]

One of the things I would like to say is to do it scared, do it loud. Recover out loud. Because in today's time, it's either you recover or you die.

[Katrina Simmons]

Share your stories, and if you're healed, heal someone else. I mean, let's pass it on. This is a. This is like, you know, we're out of time.

[Christy Kastler]

Well, and one of the things I used to always tell Devin, be ahead of it before it breaks your body or takes your life, recover. The drugs are not harmless. And to break the stigma. There is no shame in being an addict. Some of the strongest people I know,

[Katrina Simmons]

sensitive people, are those in recovery. The other thing I. Sorry to interrupt you, Christy, but is that, you know, we need more accessible rehab. Not. You know, it'd be great if everyone could go to a luxury rehab. Insurance cuts off. For a parent that's paying. At 26, you're cut off, so you're paying out of pocket. They need. They need more Iop availability. They need immediate detox. You can't wait for a bed. Every county, in every city, every. Especially in Thousand Oaks, where we live, this is a wealthy area. This should be. Every single street corner should have a detox to walk in and get something for anxiety and medication. That's. That's Safe and won't kill you. Because when you're detoxing, when you're detoxing, it's painful.

[Richard]

So let me tell you, that's beautiful. Let me tell you what's out there. Okay? There are certain rehabs I know because I have one, it's called One Method center. Okay. And you can go to this center and centers like it for like 500 bucks. Right. And that pays your deductible because you have to pay the deductible. Right. And then you get 30 days of free treatment. Right. I mean this is, this can work.

[Katrina Simmons]

Okay, so where is that located?

[Richard]

Well, we're located in Cheviot Hills. It's called One Method center. But anybody can call us at Carrera or One Method. And if we can't help you, we know where you can get help. We refer people out all day long that we can't take. It's not that it's not accessible, it's just if you're not, if you don't have, if you're not in the rehab business or you haven't navigated it for a long time, you don't really know what's out there or how to find it. And then what's worse than that is a lot of these places are not righteous.

[Katrina Simmons]

No.

[Richard]

Right.

[Katrina Simmons]

So. So Devin was body brokered at a rehab.

[Richard]

So listen, I just had a kid in my rehab that walked into my rehab and pulled out two people to go to another rehab. Okay. It's sleazy. Okay. But there are some of us that are righteous.

[Christy Kastler]

Yes.

[Richard]

That are doing it for the right reasons.

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes.

[Richard]

Right. I mean, I sold my last business for a lot of money. I don't have to work. I did it because the crisis was here. And this time I wanted to help the military and veterans. And so that's what we use one method for. And a bunch of the houses and we've got regular folks in, in the other ones. So it's not just, you know, my high end center. It's not just that, like, you know what I'm saying? And there's, there's places out there and if anybody needs it, anybody, you can always DM us or, or call us. We'll always help refer you out no matter what situation you're in.

[Christy Kastler]

Yeah, always.

[Katrina Simmons]

And that's just so it's out there.

[Richard]

It's just the good ones are hard to find. And I get it. It's bad deal.

[Katrina Simmons]

And it doesn't guarantee.

[Richard]

No, it doesn't.

[Christy Kastler]

Because one of the things, if I'm able to say this rehab, like you're saying, is absolutely mandatory. But what's also mandatory is aftercare. And that comes in the form of therapy three times a week. It's the aftercare relapse is or can be part of recovery. But sometimes, not always.

[Katrina Simmons]

I mean, not always, I mean is.

[Christy Kastler]

But what I'm trying to say is that there is no shame in reaching out. So the aftercare supports the work you've done.

[Katrina Simmons]

Let me ask you a question.

[Richard]

You're exactly right. Let me ask you a question. How many times have. Did your kids say when wanted to take him to rehab? How many times did they say, I'll just do Iop first?

[Christy Kastler]

Devin would. He knew he. Devin wanted to be sober. And he didn't always trust the Iop to get him clean. He knew he needed the rehabs. It would take. It would take convincing to get him there. There wasn't. There was a point for a small window where he said, I'm tired of rehabs. I don't want to do this. I don't want this to be my life.

[Katrina Simmons]

That's what Dylan would say. I don't want to do this.

[Christy Kastler]

But he knew. He knew the severity of his. Of his addiction. And he didn't feel safe in Iop and then rehab. He knew he needed the rehab.

[Richard]

Ladies, I want you to do me a favor. I want you to tell people where they can reach you, and I want you to give them the name of your podcast.

[Christy Kastler]

The DK805 podcast came about from Devin and Dylan and Katrina and Christy.

[Katrina Simmons]

Yes.

[Christy Kastler]

To honor our boys. So she's a K and I'm a K. And both the boys are D's.

[Katrina Simmons]

That's right.

[Christy Kastler]

And 805 is our area code. Our area code. So DK 805 podcast Breaking Stigmas because there is no shame in being.

[Katrina Simmons]

Kindness, compassion. And just, you know, there is no right one way. There's no one way, you guys.

[Richard]

So you guys went ahead and the community that you've developed for yourselves is support very few guys. What kind of support you were getting? That's what I was referring to. But I want you guys to. Before we get off, I want to have an agreement, okay? We're going to have a contract, okay? I want you guys for a year, an entire year. We'll give you back your misery, okay? For one year on Mondays and Thursdays or Tuesdays and Fridays, I don't care. I just want it spaced out so you have time to process. Okay? I want you guys going to a Therapist. Okay. We'll look for one. Okay. But, guys, this is the type of a thing where you have to go to a couple therapists, okay? Might take you a month or two to find someone you align with. Okay? Someone who you feel safe talking to, who's nurturing, but won't sit there and let you vent the entire time. One thing at a time. This is. This is your problem now. Let me help you. Right size. Right size, this thing. Okay? I'm asking you to do the right thing for yourselves, and this is why we're here. You know, if you believe in God. Okay, then you're awake. Okay. Yeah, I'm awake.

[Katrina Simmons]

Okay.

[Richard]

This is the only reason I'm here today.

[Christy Kastler]

Yes.

[Richard]

Was to give you guys. To give you guys relief. This had nothing to do with any of this today. You know, at the end of when I do something, I go, oh, that's why I was doing that today. So I want to have a contract. Are you guys willing right away, when we get off the phone, when we get off this thing, I want you guys to immediately start looking for a therapist. I will do the same. Okay. But I need you guys to do it with a sense of urgency. Will you guys make that commitment to do twice a week for a year?

[Christy Kastler]

Yes. Yes. I want.

[Katrina Simmons]

I can do that.

[Christy Kastler]

I want to. I want to be a better person.

[Katrina Simmons]

Of course.

[Richard]

We do not break contracts with ourselves.

[Christy Kastler]

I will not break a contract. My days might have to be back to back with my schedule, but I will go twice a week.

[Richard]

Whatever you need to do. Okay.

[Christy Kastler]

To me.

[Richard]

Good. All right. I feel good about this. Ladies, thank you for sharing your son's stories and your stories, and I feel hopeful for you. I think what you guys are doing is heroic, Letting everybody know about your grief so that other parents don't have to go through the immeasurable pain that you're going through. It is. Yeah, you guys are the best.

[Katrina Simmons]

But our children were not just their addiction, and they. Their lives matter. And we will. We will speak for as loud as we can to. Just to make that point.

[Richard]

Excellent. See you next Tuesday.

[Christy Kastler]

Okay, thank you.

[Richard]

We're out of time.

[Katrina Simmons]

Please subscribe on YouTube, click the thumbs

[Richard]

up and leave a comment. Please subscribe on Apple podcast and Spotify and leave a rating and a review and share the we're out of time podcast with others you know, who will get value out of it. See you next Tuesday.