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WETSU: a BattleshipNJ Podcast
Congressman Norcross: U.S. Representative & Founding Member of The Home Port Alliance
00:27:13
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Foreign.
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Man your battle stations. Welcome to another episode of wetsu, a Battleship New Jersey podcast. I'm Marshall Spivak, and it's my honor and privilege to be talking today with our congressman, Donald Norcross. Congressman Norcross has been one of the battleship's greatest advocates over the nearly 25 years she's been a museum ship. He served as a founding trustee of the Home Port Alliance, a nonpartisan 501c3 that worked tirelessly to bring the battleship New Jersey back home to New Jersey and ultimately to Camden. Norcross is an electrician by trade, the only one in Congress, and served as a business agent for our friends at IBEW Local 351, as the President of the Southern New Jersey AFL CIO, as a State Senator representing the 5th Legislative District and in Camden county, and finally as a member of the United States House of Representatives. He's also our neighbor right down the street from us in Camden. First elected in to Congress in 2014, Nora Cross has been a tireless advocate for our men and women in uniform and our veterans in particular, working to preserve critical missions at Joint Base McGuire Dix Lakehurst. He's a member of the House Armed Services Committee where he currently serves as the ranking member of of the Tactical Air and Land Tactical Air and Land Forces subcommittee and as a member of the Sea Power and Projection Forces subcommittee. The Sea Power and Projection Forces subcommittee has oversight over Navy and Marine Corps acquisition programs and accounts related to shipbuilding and conversion, reconnaissance and surveillance, tanker and the airlift, aircraft, ship and submarine launch, weapons, munitions and procurements, as well as maritime policy and programs. Congressman Norcross, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you, Marshall.
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It's great to be here 25 years.
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25 years.
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Holy smokes. That is a long time. And in fact, when we started, I was, as you mentioned, electrician, but I wasn't in public service. And as part of the Homeport Alliances, as I call ragtag group of folks who got together with a great idea. That's how I joined as part of a labor perspective and bring that in because of our roots, not only the Philadelphia shipyard, but so many of the people who helped build the New Jersey lived right here in New Jersey.
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Absolutely. You were part, you were part of the Home Port alliance from the beginning. Take us back. Tell us what it was like to get all the ducks in a row in order to put this 2000 page application into the Navy and ultimately what helped us win here in Camden.
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Well, let me take a step back before that. You know, once the Home Port alliance was gathered together. Its different parts, as I say, came together. But why did we have the Home Port Alliance? Well, the Battleship New Jersey was up for disposal. When I say that, does it become a museum? Does it get put in mothballs? And there was a group from North Jersey who just assumed it was going to North Jersey. And I don't want to rehash some of the negative side of it, but it's who we are through our history. So there was a group of individuals got together from the southern part saying, hey, wait a minute, we deserve a shot at this level, the playing field and we'll compete for it. And that was really the genesis for putting that together. So it was Senator then Senator John Matheson, Pat Jones, Admiral Sigenthaler joined it, Joe Balzano Sr. And the list went on. But they wanted to have an inclusive group. So that's when they reached out to organized labor. And I was running the umbrella group called the AFL CIO back then, and we were going to take a run at this. The idea of coming in late to try to put together this application and that was the genesis for starting this down the road, is that group of individuals, Camden county, was immediately on board and helped with, with some of the funding to do that. DRPA was part of it. So the list went on. And my God, they put a hell of an application together. In fact, I think it was remarked by the Navy, one of the finest they've ever received. And in fact, as many other ships are being looked at as museums, they're looking at our early documents to say, hey, this is how you put together an application. You know, it's, it's great to say, hey, we want to ship. Yeah, well, it's sort of like sustainment that I deal with each and every day for our Navy that we have now is it's very expensive and you better have a plan for doing this or you're going to be in big trouble. Because getting the ship is only step one, maintaining it. As you know better than anybody, as you just left dry dock, it's expensive and it takes a lot of committed individuals. And the idea of doing this as volunteers, nobody's paid to do this. That group was a volunteer group that came together.
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You went down to Panama. When the ship came through the Panama Canal for the final time on its way back to New Jersey, a lot of folks traveled. There was a big contingent. Tell us about what that experience was like.
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Well, the ship was temporarily up and Bremerton and Washington. And the idea this is after the alert came through, it's a long way come from Bremerton, Washington over to the east coast, especially when you're not flying. So going down the west coast and towing this massive vessel all the way down and into Panama was not only expensive, but a real feat of engineering. And I say that because Senator Lambert was there. I think former Congressman Hughes was the ambassador in Panama back then. Joe Bazan, Balzano Senior, we all went down and literally I have a picture of the three of us on the locks of the Panama Canal. But what was remarkable is this ship was built so it could maximize getting through the Panama Canal. So there's a thing called a gun hole in the side of the battleship. If we were to put it in layman terms, it's your gutters on your house, but these are half round. They literally had to remove these gunnels on the side of the ship so it could go into the Panama Canal. And literally, as she's being taken in by what they call the mules, which are the trains that pulled in, it was scraping the wood on either side. It was just that close. And of course, you know, coming from the construction industry, I'm looking how are they doing this? And I said, did it ever get stuck? And they said twice in the history because it had come through Paramount Canal on a number of occasions. And if the one mule who was pulling the ship in pulls a little bit too fast, it literally talks the ship right and up, we're stuck. You have to push it back. And it was amazing that something as large as a battleship just fits through Panama Canal by design. So that was a remarkable time.
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Yeah. You were on hand in March when the battleship was dry docked or left Camden for the first time since she became a museum ship to head downriver to the Navy Yard for dry docking. Seeing the ship push off the pier and and do a 180 degree turn and head back down river. Did that conjure back some memories from 2000, 2001 for you?
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Well, a little windy that day.
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Just a little bit.
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Here's great news. The folks who run our tugs know what they're doing because you know, most people think, gee, that's can just push it, it's no problem. That's a big wind sale. And they did a great job. But the biggest memory relapse, as I call it, coming back was how many people were out on both sides of the river. Watching it reminded me as we brought it up from Cape May, all the way up the river, you could see just thousands of people on both sides because you know, it's iconic. It's a battleship. You know, when you talk about Navy, they talk about aircraft carriers now, but the iconic ship the Navy is, is the battleship. And something that had more battle stars than any other vessel in naval history. Coming up, coming home. That's why we called it the Home Port alliance, built right in Philadelphia and certainly having that leave again after it's been there for close to 20 some years, going back over to where it was born, so to speak. It was a. A beautiful time for all of the Delaware Valley.
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Yeah. You came to visit us in dry dock. You took a tour of the ship in dry dock. You've been a part of the battleship's history for the last 25 years. But like all of us, it was the first time you ever walked under the battleship. So what were your. What were your impressions of getting under the ship for the first time and just of the whole dry docking project?
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So you mentioned, as I serve on the House of Representatives Armed Services Committee and I sit on the sea power and projection forces. All the naval vessels, whether they're under the sea or on the sea, come under our jurisdiction. And I've had the privilege of traveling not only around the country to all our shipyards, but around the world. So I've been under vessels before, but never our own baby called the battleship New Jersey. And I guess at my initial look, I'm thinking, wow, that's in pretty good shape for being that old.
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Yeah.
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Now, obviously, the reason it is because how much work we went in, because when we first brought it up and it was docked down at Broadway Terminal, it was painted for the first time. And then subsequently it's been painted now two more times. And the second time, which was a great story in itself, that the painters used their apprentices for practice on the ship. I believe the paint was donated, which was another great, great savings.
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Yes. The freeboard paint. Yeah.
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Yeah, there's a lot of paint.
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50, 65,000 square feet. In fact, we just finished just last week, repainting of the freeboard for the third time now. And 65,000 square feet of haze gray.
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Haze gray.
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Haze gray.
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And then obviously below the water line, all the paint that went into that. And it was. It's what we do best. It's. We can build aircraft carriers. We just built and commissioned the submarine New Jersey just a couple weeks ago, as we like to say, the most complicated machine in the history of the world. But back when the battleship New Jersey was built, this was the most complicated machine we ever had. And the Idea of back then, the machinists, what it took to put that together right here across the river is something that we have to be reminded of sometimes that we are that great industrial nation that we do so many things on our computers. But you still need that talent to build a ship. Those welders, those ship fitters, as they call the electricians, the painters, all come together to build that machine.
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We had a really great crew at the Philly Ship Repair who did some incredible around the clock work on the battleship when we were on the blocks for the 78 days that we were there. But you mentioned the submarine New Jersey, the new USS New Jersey, SSN 796. First time since February 8, 1991 that we've had a USS New Jersey back in the active fleet. You were there on commissioning day. You spoke at commissioning day. What were your impressions of the submarine and our new sister ship?
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So the Virginia class attack subs, as these are named after, have been built between Rhode island and Virginia. Newport News. An electric boat up in Connecticut. Remarkable machine. She was sitting there. I was there when they laid the keel down in Virginia. It was a special time. You knew that the legacy of the New Jersey continues in this case. We were hoping to have it christened and commissioned right here on the Delaware River. But because of some of the regulations that we have to follow and we should follow concerning nuclear submarines near highly populated area, that was moved back up to Earl, still in New Jersey. But we were hoping to have it right next to its sister ship, the New Jersey. But when you look at the. The machine in this Virginia class sub called the USS New Jersey is the first submarine ever built that fully facilitates for both men and women. And as I remarked at the time, is anybody who knows our state knows that Jersey girls don't pump their gas.
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That's right.
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But they do run nuclear submarines.
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That's right. Yes, they do. We talked about your membership on the House Armed Services Committee on the Sea Power Subcommittee. You mentioned just sort of briefly what that does. Can you talk to us sort of about your experiences with the Navy? And as part of that subcommittee, as.
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Part of House Armed Services, it's really an honor. So I serve on what we call the hardware committee. Obviously, with my background, it gives me a different perspective on building things that not every member of Congress has. So that's the uniqueness of that diversity of backgrounds is that I have been in the construction industry and certainly know how to build things. So when we as armed Services, we have to make those decisions. Not only which Ships to build, which vessels we're currently upgrading. Obviously our nuclear fleet, which includes our aircraft carriers, which tend to be very, very expensive, and our nuclear subs, we have the Virginia class, which are the attack subs, and then we have the Columbia class, which referred refer to as their boomers. These are the missile submarines that are our silent warriors under the sea that keep us safe in what they call the nuclear triad.
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Right.
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I've had opportunities to be in all three of those types of vessels under the sea. In fact, there's a maneuver called ICEX every two years.
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Yeah, sure.
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That takes place at the North Pole. They set up a camp out on the ice and I had the opportunity a few years back to go out there and spend a few days with the crew of the USS Connecticut Seawolf class sub and literally broke under the ice and went for a maneuver. Let's just leave it at that. But the remarkable item is as it comes back up and pops through the ice. And I think many people have seen that iconic view of you have a white surface and then all of a sudden this massive submarine pops up underneath. But as we were on the surface, since we were out over open ocean, you could literally see the Russian spy planes overhead taking pictures of us. And as everybody waved to them, it just reminds us that the cold water war might be over, but we still have a sure, a very warm, warm, let's say, way of looking at each other, making sure, especially in light of what's going on in Ukraine.
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Yeah. One of the biggest things that we would get online as a part of the dry docking process, some joking and some not so joking, was whether this was all just passage. Reactivate the battleship. And you and I both know that battleships are unfortunately more of a relic of the past. You're dealing now on armed services with the future of the Navy, the future of our sub force and our surface warfare force. What to you is really the future of the navy fleet.
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So there has been much discussion of how many vessels we need and some pundits like to put a hard number on. And as I have always said, numbers count, but it's only relative to what that vessel, that ship or submarine can actually do. So I care less about numbers, more about its capabilities. And I think that's where we as a country and our naval fleets are going, is that, you know, you look at what is happening in Ukraine, in the Black Sea now, by all accounts, Russia has the third largest navy in the world and very capable. However, it took a few underwater and overseas drones to push them back out of Odessa and put them out of range. It is redefining how we as a country in a global atmosphere are going to use our naval ships. One, excuse me, one of our biggest challenges is what's going over in the South China Sea. It's very, very far away, especially by ship. And we are playing, excuse me in a way game that is causing us to reevaluate some of the long held views of how we would do that. I do not see any time in my lifetime us not putting our full faith and effort into our undersea and that those undersea assets are probably the greatest Mexican the aircraft carrier Way to keep that nuclear triad to keep at bay those who want to do us harm. The Columbia class is a remarkable vessel that is coming on board in the next few years. Our Virginia's are doing. One of our biggest issues is how quickly can we produce. We don't call up China or Russia to help us build those. We have to do it with our domestic workforce and we should for obvious reasons A we don't want them to have the know how to do what we do because China is nowhere close to doing what we do underseas. But our destroyer base, all those cross still very relevant. But because of drones in the air, on the sea and below the sea, it is changing the calculations on how we protect our carriers and all our surface vessels.
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Yeah, well, we have a new another ship being commissioned just in a few weeks. The USS John Baselone DDG122 Arleigh Burke Class destroyer named after one of our state's most treasured World War II heroes. Medal of Honor winner, Navy Cross winner, John Basilone from Raridan. That's two great warships in two months with great ties to New Jersey. How can we keep this going? How can we get more ships with Jersey ties?
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Well, there are, there is one other ship in the name. I should have known this right on top of me, that is I visited in Japan another destroyer named after our Medal of Honor winner from Audubon. So ironically, Audubon, which is one of the towns I represent in the heart of Camden county, has not one, not two, but three Medal of Honor winners.
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Wow. I did not know that.
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Small town. So per capita has the highest percentage of medal winners in the country.
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Wow.
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And when we first started to look into it, the ironic thing is, well, maybe these things, these different heroic actions were related completely independent of each other three separate times. And it is something to be very proud of such a small town, but with such pride for the US that they gave us three Medal of Honor winners. So as we go through this, we will have the name here in a minute of the ship. So when I was in Japan, we were able to visit it.
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That's great. You know, I think a big misconception about the battleship. Most people believe that we are funded by the US Navy. We're obviously not outside of COVID funds from 2020, 2021 and the $500,000 that you were able to secure for us as a part of our fantail structure project. That's pretty much it in terms of federal funding. Although now you've introduced a new bill just last week called the Save our Ships Act. First and foremost, thank you. And second, why do you believe it's important to continue to maintain what we call macro artifacts like the battleship? Other retired Navy Coast Guard vessels around the country? There's over 100 museum ships as a part of the Historic Naval Ships association, which we're affiliated with at the battleship. So why do you think it's important for not just state and local entities to step up, but for the federal government to also help?
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So we have a force that protects our country and the different services that is strictly voluntary. Those who want to put their lives on hold and serve their country. The idea of understanding our history, because if we forget that, it will quite frankly impact what we do in the future. So back when I was State center from 5th District, we were able to secure one of our first Jersey supplements to help take care of this. You know, the Liberty Science Museum up in New Jersey got very good funding. And all we wanted to do is have, you know, our fair share down here. And the governors, the legislatures obviously have approved that since then. So it's incredibly important to show that there is that support from New Jersey. But when we look at the federal level, there are very few vessels that are considered historic that we still contribute to. The Missouri being one of those out in Hawaii, which would have been the New Jersey if it wasn't for President Truman back then, happened to be from Missouri. So there was a quick switcheroo or we would have plenty of funding. But I say that in jest. The idea of protecting our history to understand. And that's one of the programs that I love about the battleship New Jersey and the home port alliance is you have those overnight encampments, whether it's a scout troop or just a civic group that comes in and see what life is like along the lines of the battleship. You know, you have, I think, a couple of the bunks that Used to have four bunks. You know, we. We think the three bunks are crowded dry when you have four in the mattresses. And they didn't have air conditioning back then, World War II. So you and your smelly buddies were all racking up together.
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When we briefly lost air conditioning for a little bit, when we were getting systems hooked, backed up after dry dock, it was over 100 degrees in some compartments. But we said, this is the World War II effect. This is. You're getting the real what the real conditions, battle conditions at the time.
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And that's what we see is the commitment that those who came before us put forth so we could be here. So it's incumbent upon us to understand our past history, but also equally important is to make sure we do it for the future. It's a very dangerous world out there right now. What's going on between Russia, certainly in Ukraine, what's going on in the Middle east, and our, you know, constant threat from China over in the Pacific. We have to be ready for anything at any time. And the idea of showing how we've done it in the past in these historic ships, plus, they add to the community pride. And quite frankly, around the country, they add to the economy, I think the number I sold close to a billion dollars in economic plus ops as well. We say to those areas, and we know what the battleship is. Yeah, people love to go and see that.
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B
Let me ask you one final question, and we'll. We'll let you go. You've been associated with the battleship for almost 25 years. Quite a. Quite a number of things have happened, especially just in this last year alone. What do you. What do you hope to see in the next 25 years for Battleship New Jersey here in Camden?
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Well, I'd love to see is a steady state of funding so that we can keep it looking the way it should and give it the respect. So Save Our Ships act, we hope that it is now a bipartisan bill, which is incredibly important, but we want to be able to make sure that all historic ships have just a little bit of support from the federal government, because at the end, those who will come to serve in our different, whether it's Navy, the Air Force, the Marines, the Space Force, the Air Force, this shows them where we've been and incredibly important to keep up the civic pride. And if the little trip across the river is any indication of how the South Jersey Philadelphia region cares about this ship, I think we're doing pretty good just to see those people come out and with their kids to show what it was is incredibly important. And I just want to finish up by thanking those in the original home port alliance, those who contributed those dollars. Early days to take this shot at trying to get the battleship New Jersey. If it wasn't for all of them, and their names are etched in history on the battleship, we wouldn't have it here today.
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Yeah. Congressman, really grateful for your support. Always. Thank you for joining us. Thanks.