← WETSU: a BattleshipNJ Podcast
WETSU: a BattleshipNJ Podcast
Ken Kersch: From Vietnam Plankowner to Museum Overnight Encampment Director
00:46:53
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- [00:00]
Ken Kirsch
Foreign quarters, all hands, man your battle stations.
- [00:12]
Marshall Spivak
Welcome to wetsu, a Battleship New Jersey podcast. I'm your host, Marshall Spivak, CEO and Executive Director of the Battleship New Jersey Museum of Memorial. This podcast is made possible through the generous support of ELAC825, the Labor Employer Cooperative of Operating Operating Engineers Local A25, we, whose highly skilled members were instrumental in the recent dry docking and preservation of the battleship New Jersey. Today, I have the privilege of sitting down with a true steward of the battleship's living legacy, Ken Kirsch. Ken's story with the Navy and with the battleship New Jersey began nearly six decades ago. Enlisted in 1965 and following boot camp was assigned to the USS Simon Lake, a Polaris submarine tender. After 18 months in Scotland and his promotion to Machinery Repairman 3rd Class, Ken received orders to the Pre Commissioning Unit, New Jersey at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. There he helped bring the big J back to life. For her third commissioning in September 1968, Petty Officer Kirsch and the New Jersey set sail for Vietnam. During this deployment, the battleship unleashed an astonishing 5,688 rounds from her legendary 16 inch guns and over 14,000 rounds from her 5 inch mounts, providing relentless firepower in support of American and allied forces, and remained on board for the entirety of the cruise to Vietnam. When the battleship was decommissioned in 1969, Ken transferred briefly to the USS Prairie before returning home back to the Garden State. Back on shore, he served his community as a South Brunswick police officer for nearly 15 years and later built a career in information technology. Today, more than 50 years after first stepping on board, Ken continues to serve the battleship and inspire future generations. As director of our overnight encampment program, Kentucky, Ken gives thousands of young people each year the unforgettable experience of sleeping the same birds as the sailors did who helped shape America's most decorated battleship can live many true wet zoo moments during the Vietnam War. And today, we're going to hear straight from the source. Ken Kirsch, my friend, welcome to wetsu. Well, thank you to talk to you. So let's, let's start where we start with everybody. And that's. Why did you join the Navy?
- [02:18]
Ken Kirsch
I knew I was going to get drafted and I wanted to be in the Navy and I didn't want to go in the army, so I went and signed up for the Navy.
- [02:25]
Marshall Spivak
So simple as that?
- [02:26]
Ken Kirsch
That's simple.
- [02:27]
Marshall Spivak
You were an Mr. Machinery Repairman. Can you tell us a little bit about what that rate does and some of the specialized training that you endured during the Beginning of your career, machinery.
- [02:38]
Ken Kirsch
Repairman is basically a machinist. Now we have machinist mates which they know a little bit about lathes and stuff. But the machine repairman works mainly in the machine shop. And we manufacture gears, build shafts, rebuild pumps, operate lathes, milling machines, grinders. You break it, we make it PA.
- [02:56]
Marshall Spivak
And you started your. As I mentioned earlier in the intro, you started on the USS Simon Lake, which was a submarine tender vessel. What was it like going from a small ship like that to the battleship, a Iowa class battleship. How was, how was that transition for you?
- [03:14]
Ken Kirsch
Simon Lake wasn't that small. We were, we were a repair ship for submarines.
- [03:18]
Marshall Spivak
Okay.
- [03:19]
Ken Kirsch
We had a lot of men on there. But I was awestruck when I saw the majestic battleship when I walked around upon the pier to it. Yes, it was much bigger. Took a little getting used to moving around it. But it was a beautiful ship. Great sight to see.
- [03:33]
Marshall Spivak
So you arrived in 1968, the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. Tell us just a little bit about not the battleship, but the Navy yard itself. 1968 to today. We obviously spent a significant amount of time last year in dry dock number three at the Philadelphia Navy Yard. What was the difference between 1968 Navy Yard versus 2025 Navy Yard?
- [03:56]
Ken Kirsch
Well, 1968, we didn't have all the civilian companies and buildings there. They were all Navy. You had to get, get on the basis with your ID and everything. Originally we were sleeping in barracks because the ship wasn't fit to sleep on. It was still in dry dock. We got shipped out to San Diego for firefighting school. A week of firefighting school. I did get two weeks of Mr. School. That was the only formal training any machine shop I got. And damage control and an engineering was sent back to Philadelphia to live in the barracks and work on a ship alongside the yard workers, trying to get everything ready as quickly as possible for deployment. But the Navy yard was a lot busier.
- [04:36]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah.
- [04:36]
Ken Kirsch
Than it is today.
- [04:37]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah, I can, I can imagine that. Especially when it was full Navy versus what it is today, which is sort of maybe a third Navy to half and then the rest, you know, as you mentioned, corporate offices. Of course you were. The ship at that time was in dry dock number three, where we just recently spent a little bit of time last year. How was it for you revisiting the past and having this battleship in this dry dock? You know, it's so many decades later. How was that experience for you?
- [05:05]
Ken Kirsch
Like I tell people, being on a ship today, it's like being home again. I mean, you're reliving what you actually did 50 some years ago. The dry dock was busy. There was a lot of work going on. We really didn't get down underneath it much. We were walking on the ship and working on spaces inside, getting them ready. We had to overhaul all the machines in the machine shop, get the cosmolene and get them back operational and then go back to bed and do it again tomorrow.
- [05:30]
Marshall Spivak
Can you tell us a little bit about the condition of the battleship commissioning unit, New Jersey, as it was known then? What was the. What was the ship like after having sat following the decommissioning after Korea? What was the condition of the ship when you were attempting to bring her back to life and get her reactivated?
- [05:48]
Ken Kirsch
There was a lot of inside in the shops and stuff. There was a lot of shipping, paint, where to clean up everything. Like I say, the machines all had grease and cosmoline all over them. They had to be cleaned off top side. There was a lot of rust. A lot of work going on up there. They took all the small guns, the 20 and 40 millimeters off. They were welding, repeat, repairing the decks. But when you walked around inside the ship, as we do today, we just walk over the knee knockers. But there was wires and hoses and cables and everything run up and down the passageways, tied up to the overhead. And it was an obstacle course to move around inside the ship. There was not all the power was on and they had temporary wiring, temporary plumbing. So it was a mess for a while. Slowly came about.
- [06:34]
Marshall Spivak
If you had to estimate how many sailors were on the crew at the time doing the work of the bringing it back, of course then you had the folks from the shipyard doing the same. But do you remember just about how many sailors who were on board helping to reactivate?
- [06:48]
Ken Kirsch
No. That's something I don't know. There were a lot of us. A number, I couldn't even guess a number.
- [06:52]
Marshall Spivak
A lot though.
- [06:53]
Ken Kirsch
A lot of us, yeah.
- [06:55]
Marshall Spivak
And when did you actually move on to the ship?
- [06:57]
Ken Kirsch
I don't remember, but it was came out of dry dock, was alongside the pier and we were still working. And it's maybe around January. January, February, somewhere in there because then we we're getting things ready to go do our sea trials.
- [07:10]
Marshall Spivak
The average crew size during Vietnam was around 1600 personnel. As we all know, this ship has everything on. It's got your medical, your dental, your post office. You also have a full size machine shop. Can you talk a little bit about the battleships machine shop during your time on board? And then also how that might compare to other ships. I've heard you talk about in the past how the battleship was sort of the machine shop for the fleet. Maybe not technically, but in reality. Can you talk to us a little bit about what it was like back then versus what it is today and how you also sort of serviced other ships in the vicinity?
- [07:45]
Ken Kirsch
Well, the machine shop today is pretty much the same as it was when I was on board. They did add one Bridgeport milling machine that we didn't have. They replaced two of the lathes with newer model lathes than we had. But other than that, the machines are basically the same with. We had about eight guys working in the machine shop, Mrs. Apprentices, and kept us busy 24 hours a day. We had that shop manned 24 hours a day. We always had work. I mean, machinist mates and all the stuff. On a ship you just can't get parts. So we would have to rebuild them or manufacture them. We did take jobs from other ships. You know, skip bust on him all the time. He was on a destroyer, the USS Buck, and their high pressure air compressor failed and they couldn't get the sleeves out of the block. So they highlined it over to us. We repaired it in the shop and highlined it back, never knowing who he was until I met him on a ship here. So destroyers, they may have a small lathe and a drill press, maybe not much more than that. An aircraft carrier will have probably two machine shops, one for the air wing and one for the crew. Some of the bigger ships will have somewhat of a machine shop. Tenders have a machine shop about 10 times the size of ours.
- [08:59]
Marshall Spivak
Oh, wow. Okay.
- [09:00]
Ken Kirsch
Yeah.
- [09:01]
Marshall Spivak
When you say that you manufacture it on the ship. So can you just tell us a little bit about what sort of that entails? I mean, you are physically, you know, making parts from scratch. Give our. Give the listeners a little bit of an understanding about sort of how that, how that goes.
- [09:16]
Ken Kirsch
Well, if they like a pump shaft, we'll take a bar of steel, we have quite an assortment of hot rolled, cold rolled, stainless steel, various metals, and store it in one of the uptakes. And we'll take off a piece of steel, we'll put it in the lathe and we'll start machining it down to the various levels. We'll cut the threads on it that need to be threaded, we'll make the bearing surfaces, we'll cut the keyways in it in the milling machines and we'll make it right to specs, and then we'll give it to the machinist mates, and they'll reinstall it down below in the pumps that's needed. If a pump comes up and the tolerances are out, we'll machine it out and we'll make a ring and press it in and. And then bring the pump back to the tolerances, the impeller and the body, and then send it back down and they'll put it together. If, like, the radar gear in one of the radar antennas was damaged, we took a piece of stock and made a gear out of a piece of metal by cutting all the teeth in it, turning it down, and then went up and installed it, pretty much. Valves were one of the biggest things we did. All those steam valves. Steam would cut them. We'd have to machine the valves down, put new gaskets in them and send it back down to be installed.
- [10:21]
Marshall Spivak
Ship goes to Vietnam in 1968. Can you tell us a little bit about. So you react. You're part of reactivation at the Navy yard. And obviously the ship goes to be commissioned formally. And then after that you start to sail over to Vietnam. What was the atmosphere like on board, you know, from leaving Long beach to. And, you know, stops on the way and then getting over to Vietnam. What was the mood of the crew at that time? Knowing you were reactivated for war, heading into a war zone. What was the mentality, what was the, you know, the mood of the crew at that time?
- [10:57]
Ken Kirsch
Most of the crew was excited to get underway. And we've been preparing for this for a while, working hard to get the ship ready. And now everybody wanted to go, put it to use. And a lot of the gunner's mates and stuff practiced on these guns. And then they wanted to actually use them. We wanted to go over and digitize, defend the troops that were over there. I mean, help them out. Because that's what we were designed to do. And we were ready to do it, and it was time to go do it.
- [11:20]
Marshall Spivak
The battleship, you know, spent an average of, you know, anywhere between 40, 70 days at a time on the gun line in between ports. Can you tell us a little bit of about the average day for the battleship New Jersey on the gun line?
- [11:33]
Ken Kirsch
Well, the average day was reveille in the morning and breakfast. We always, when we were on the gun line, we always had one 16 inch mount, one 5 inch mount, manned and ready. Plotting was always manned and ready. Captain Snyder always said, what I heard from him was he wanted for call, came in for support. He wanted an answer within 30 seconds. Unrealistic, maybe, but he wanted Response quickly from that. A lot of the work was done during the day, like in our shop just to keep things going if anything broke on the guns. And we had a couple major issues with the guns that we had to repair parts for. Okay, so we got up and breakfast. We would have quarters in the morning for our muster and inspection. Then we would go to our assigned areas and do our work. We'd have lunch, back to work, dinner, and then we would start standing our watches at night. Various places I stood watches in the machine shop, in the refrigeration room and in the office answering calls. Those were my three watch stations. And you'd get some time off as long as they didn't call general quarters. If they did that, it was everybody up and to your battle stations. That didn't happen that often, but it didn't occasionally happen. And when it did, we knew we were in trouble.
- [12:41]
Marshall Spivak
What? So obviously, you know, I mentioned earlier 5,688 rounds of 16 inch projectiles, 14,891 rounds out of the 5 inch mount. Obviously an opposing amount of firepower. The cadence of these fire missions, you know, probably multiple happening a day. So just so the ship was not at general quarters every time there was, you know, firing happening. So what was the difference between, you know, just a normal fire mission versus, you know, captain sounds, general quarters and you know, everyone reports to their stations. And what would be the difference between.
- [13:19]
Ken Kirsch
A lot of the times we were what they called Condition three, where if they were firing one of the forward turrets, one of the forward 16 inch guns, the rule of thumb was we don't go forward of the boats on the main deck and yaft main deck. We could go up there and stuff like that. The normal workday would be carried on and the crew would be ready to answer anything that came in general quarters. Every gun was manned, every door, watertight door was closed and sealed. Ventilation was shut down. And everybody had their assigned general quarter stations and they went to. We didn't do that that often, but we did run a lot at condition three. All the time when we were on the gun line and it was, you'd sit up on deck on the fantail and you hear the guns go off in the front. It was just a normal occurrence. People say, we say that when they fire the guns, if you know they're going to be fired, you can actually see with the naked eye the projectile going through the air. And it's an amazing sight to see those things, they're huge when I go out and they make A big impact when I land.
- [14:17]
Marshall Spivak
Well, we know that for sure. What was your specific battle station during, General?
- [14:24]
Ken Kirsch
I was. Me and another sailor were in the machine shop in case anything broke.
- [14:28]
Marshall Spivak
Just there on duty, ready to, you know, move and fix that at a moment's notice.
- [14:33]
Ken Kirsch
Yes.
- [14:34]
Marshall Spivak
Can you talk about what a typical fire mission was for the battleship, you know, during Vietnam?
- [14:39]
Ken Kirsch
Well, at night a lot of times we would fire what they called H and I's Harassment Interdiction. We got some shells from Captain Snyder's previous work in research and development. They were called raps, Rocket Assisted Projectiles. And they were for the five inch. My understanding from the guys is they went further. They weren't as accurate, but I can't swear to that. But didn't matter if we wanted to keep the Viet Cong moving around. Shells landing. If they were off 20ft or 100ft, it didn't matter, just kept moving. But the crew would be there. The crew would get relieved every eight hours. There were nights where we were still at condition three where we fired almost 2,000 rounds out of the port side five inch guns. And they actually had the starboard side gun crew up replacing some of the guys in the port side guns because they were getting tired. And you've seen the photos where the shell casings were piled up so high behind the mounts that they really couldn't turn the mounts until we cleared them out of the way. But Captain Snyder said, we're not going to stop firing until the troops are safe. And if we burn those guns up, we had 10 more on the other side. We'll just turn around.
- [15:45]
Marshall Spivak
I've heard you talk about this in the past where, you know, today on the battleship you have Vietnam veterans who come back and specifically a lot of times Marines who've come and kiss the deck and say, you know, we wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for the battleship. Can you just talk a little bit about that experience from your own perspective? Being a veteran of the ship during that time and knowing how much this ship supported our troops and our Marines on, on the ground, in the jungle in Vietnam.
- [16:13]
Ken Kirsch
As to that, I have seen that happen five or six times. Personally. When I was still working, I came down to the battleship on Fridays and when I came down on a Friday, the quarter deck told me there was a gentleman that's coming back on Friday because he was at the ship on Wednesday and they said he kissed the deck and saw it around and everything. He told them that the ship saved his life. But when he found out that there was a sailor that was on the ship during that time. Him and his wife came back just to meet me and shake my hand. Very humbling, you know, because we don't see that side of it. And to know we are appreciated that much is heartwarming. We're doing our job to protect them. It's just. I don't know how to say it, but stuff, words, it feels good.
- [16:57]
Marshall Spivak
How much when you were over there, when, you know, you're either on the gun line or coming off and going into port, how much did you know sort of what was going on on the ground versus just what your typical daily, you know, fire missions were?
- [17:10]
Ken Kirsch
We didn't know that much what was going on on the ground. I mean, some people on a ship might have, if they were in plot or in communications or stuff like that, but down in engineering, we didn't know too much unless they passed a word and said something.
- [17:23]
Marshall Spivak
We've had some really great conversations with past guests, including with Admiral Tucker, about the art, I should say, of underway replenishment. Can you tell us a little bit from your perspective, having been there and been a part of it, you know, everything that goes into an underwear punishment for a ship like the battleship and especially, you know, in a war zone?
- [17:47]
Ken Kirsch
Well, we would pull off a little bit, I don't know where or how far, and we always had replenishment because every one of the ships being the only battleship in the world in service, those ships all wanted to come alongside and say they replenished the battleship. So we always had them ready and able to come to us. They would bring us our, our food, our supplies and ammunition. Some would come over on high line, but they would also ferry ammunition over by helo and drop it on the decks. And then it was a mass working party to put everything down below because once they drop it on the deck, all the boxes of food have to be moved down three or four decks to be put away, actually, four decks. The ammunition all has to be lowered down into the magazines. All the powder casings have to be lowered down into the magazines. And it takes a lot of time to do that. And a lot of manpower did you.
- [18:36]
Marshall Spivak
Have, especially for the food, the boxes, Maybe not so much really heavy ammunition. But how did you, how did you get all that stuff below deck? Was it an assembly line, you're passing the boxes, or how did, how did, how did that typically go?
- [18:47]
Ken Kirsch
Well, if you noticed on the ladders, there's two flaps that come down. So you just take guy at the top and a guy at the bottom and you slide the boxes down the ladder. He catches them, hands them off to the next guy, slides them down the next ladder and then down below they have a working party stacking them in the storerooms or in the freezers or in the refrigerators. But that's how it did.
- [19:07]
Marshall Spivak
It's time consuming.
- [19:08]
Ken Kirsch
Time consuming and power consuming. There's no elevators, no escalators. Ammunition, especially the 16 inch, which are what, 900 and 2700 pound projectiles, have to be lowered one by one down the. What do you, shafts, you know, down all the way down to the bottom of the ship and then moved into the turret room. All the ammunition and shells one by one have to be lowered down. Either the treasure hoists down into the magazines for the 5 inch or through the turrets are turned and lined up with the shafts going down and each projectile individually is lowered down and then moved into a magazine. And that's a lot of manpower and a lot of work for those guys.
- [19:49]
Marshall Spivak
You know, I imagine you said, you've said before that and it sort of goes to your, your answer previously about everyone wanting to resupply us and everyone wanting to, you know, come alongside the battleship. Only battleship in the world and in the act of fleet at the time you said before that a bosun's mate wrote New Jersey International on the flight deck because of the heavy amount of helicopter traffic that was constantly coming on and off board. Who were all these admirals and distinguished visitors that were coming to the battleship? Why were they coming? And sort of, how did that affect the everyday of crew life on board?
- [20:26]
Ken Kirsch
Well, it didn't affect us too much. They had some high level meetings on the ship. One day we had five helos on the flight deck. And what they did is the smaller ones they moved up by turret three. Then they brought two Hueys in and then a Chinook on a flight deck. And so didn't bother us too much. But as far as writing New Jersey International across the flight deck, one night we're sitting there and went something like this on the one mc now arriving at the Great Gate from da Nang, Flight 1, we all thought, well, that bosa bait's going to get his butt chewed. And then a little While later, Flight 1 now leaving the Great Gate for Danang. And we think, what the heck's going on? The next morning the captain was up there supervising in one foot letters across the flight deck, New Jersey International. And that was the captain's idea. He had it done. I've never seen a battleship did fly Out. But it worked in our benefit, too, because there were times where. I know. The captain told me once that the general came out and, you know, he invited him to dinner and you know, the pleasantries that go on. Anything I can ever do for you, let me know.
- [21:30]
Marshall Spivak
Sure.
- [21:31]
Ken Kirsch
Captain says, yeah, I want to use your helicopter. And he sent it to get our mail while he had dinner with the general.
- [21:36]
Marshall Spivak
There you go. Love it.
- [21:37]
ELAC Representative
Operating engineers are the men and women that move mountains. And the engineers, Labor Employer Cooperative ELEC puts them to work. They create opportunities for the men, women, and union signatory contractors of Local 825 repaving our roads, keeping our homes bright and warm, and even building our favorite team stadium. We understand infrastructure. That's why ELAC and Local 825 are ready to get to work.
- [22:07]
Marshall Spivak
Well, so that brings us to my next question, which was. You served under Captain J. Edward Snyder. I just. In the many conversations we've had, I know you speak very highly of him, think very highly of him. Can you tell us a little bit about him, sort of how, what really he did and his attitude that really endured him to the crew.
- [22:27]
Ken Kirsch
On the other two ships I was on, the captains didn't want you seeing anybody on the forecastle unless you were working. Keep the decks clean and clear on here. Captain Snyder in the beginning told us, when we're at sea, I don't want to see a white hat on deck. He says, they're only going to blow off and you're going to have to buy new ones. It's going to cost you money. Don't do it. In port. We had to play the role of battleship sailor and be squared away out at sea. The uniform of the day was whatever he felt like wearing. T shirts, jeans, no hats. So he was a sailor's captain. If you had a birthday during that month, part of the mess deck was closed off and you were invited down there to have dinner with the captain. He had a sheet cake made and your name was on it, and he cut and served the cake to the crew. That's one of the things he did. People would sunbathe right outside his stateroom, his cabin. He'd come out, he'd walk right around everybody. Don't get up, you know, just hang out. He didn't care. He had two pools built on the ship for swimming that didn't go over too big with the Navy, but took two of the 40 millimeter. Yeah, they took two 40 millimeter gun tubs, welded them shot, painted them baby blue. And we had two Pools. So he did care about the crew and he did take care of the crew. And I can tell you one story. Ernie Roberts was with me in the machine shop and he told me this story because it happened just after I left. He was 18 hours late getting back to the ship AWOL and he got busted to third class. When he was leaving the ship, Captain Snyder stopped him on the brow on the quarter deck and told him he can't leave the ship. You're out of uniform. And Ernie said, he looked and didn't know what was wrong. And he said, tell me and I'll fix it. He says, put your second class crow back on before you leave this ship. So he punished him but didn't ruin his career. That's the kind of guy he was.
- [24:07]
Marshall Spivak
And I've heard you talk in the past about what would happen when Captain Snyder came down and ate on the mess deck. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
- [24:15]
Ken Kirsch
Well, when we first got on the ship, the food sucked. There's no way to say it otherwise, but the commissary officer for my previous ship, I saw him there and I asked him what he was doing. He says, I'm trying to get the galley straightened out. It got a little better. But the word got up to the captain that the food wasn't that great. So he came down, stepped in the chair line, got a tray, went to the mess decks, and he didn't like the food either. So he picked the tray up and he went in the galley and he called the chief over and he says, secure the mess lines, which means no more serving. He says, now throw this meal over the side, make a new meal the crew can eat. And I'll be down one breakfast, one lunch, one dinner each week unannounced, and it better be good, and walked out. Food got good.
- [24:53]
Marshall Spivak
Would hope so. The fear of God, something like that. Into the CS staff for sure.
- [24:58]
Ken Kirsch
Yeah, but I mean, the captain had a nickname of the Phantom. You never knew where he was going to pop up. He popped up in the machine shop twice. We were making a part for the 16 inch guns because they were out of service. 5:30 in the morning, he walks in to see how we're doing on it. And then one Sunday, which was Sundays were a relaxed day, you know, holiday basically. And we were doing hobby work in the machine shop. He walked in and he wanted to know how we made that part because he said he did some machining in his career. He said, but I don't know how you made that part. And I Want to know? So we had a show, and he.
- [25:31]
Marshall Spivak
Seemed like someone who wasn't just in his stateroom, wasn't just on the bridge. He was moving around the ship and talking to sailors and, you know.
- [25:38]
Ken Kirsch
Oh, he was all over. He was all over.
- [25:41]
Marshall Spivak
Want to Talk about Christmas 1968? Can you set the scene for us here on Battleship New Jersey as the Bob Hope Christmas show comes on board? Can you tell us a little bit about that day? Can you tell us a little bit about the scene on the ship? The crew at the time, were you excited for this or was it more of a. Oh, we got to host a show. We got to be on. Would you just want to celebrate Christmas or was there general, you know. You know, general excitement for what that was to become?
- [26:07]
Ken Kirsch
Oh, there was general excitement. They asked for a few volunteers. So several of us from the machine shop volunteered to help out, which was interesting. We got to see a lot and talk to a lot of people. He wasn't supposed to be there, but, I mean, we got the word prepare. They're coming. So I think that was kind of a request. I don't know for sure, but I think he requested to come out there. And believe it or not, I think he has a lot of weight or had a lot of weight with the Navy.
- [26:32]
Marshall Spivak
I think so at that time.
- [26:33]
Ken Kirsch
Yeah. So we set up. Turret number one was the stage, and it was Bob Hope, the Hunting Limited, the Gold Diggers, Ann Margaret, Miss America, Rosie Greer, the band, might be a couple others that I can't remember, but we were generally moving stuff around and helping them. They told four of us to go to the helo deck, get footlockers and bring them up to the wardroom. Okay. So we're carrying four Ward 4 foot lockers to the wardrobe. Knock on the door, girl opens the door, what do you need? I says, you got four footlockers for you? Yeah, bring them in and set them over there. So we did. That was the ladies dressing room, and they could care that we were there or not, and they were changing. So we left quickly. It was in our best interest. I was up on top with Ernie on the turret during the whole show and watched it from up there. And after the show that one of the officers came up to me and another sailor and says, got some couple people to take down to the mess decks for. For Christmas dinner. Okay. So we're standing there and he brings out Ann Margaret and her husband, Roger Smith. That's who I took down to the mess decks and had my Christmas dinner with December 25, 1968.
- [27:34]
Marshall Spivak
So you sat at the table with Ann Margaret for Christmas.
- [27:37]
Ken Kirsch
The tables we have now four chairs.
- [27:39]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah.
- [27:39]
Ken Kirsch
Roger Smith sat next to me and Margaret sat across from me. And I forget who the sailor wasn't. I wasn't paying any attention to him. But she is a lovely, lovely, lovely person. Besides being a beautiful woman, she's a lovely person.
- [27:55]
Marshall Spivak
And the whole day seemed to have, you know, gone off without a hitch. Does that, that sound about accurate?
- [28:01]
Ken Kirsch
Yes. Everything went off well and then they flew out. They didn't stay.
- [28:05]
Marshall Spivak
They didn't sleep over.
- [28:06]
Ken Kirsch
They. No, no.
- [28:06]
Marshall Spivak
In and out in the same day. They were in and out Christmas 1968. And of course, we also had Bob Hope back on board December 25, 1983 for the second show. And we last year produced those really cool special edition Bob Hope challenge coins that we sold in the store. That, that went very quick. Yeah. To commemorate his, his show on board. Yeah. So just really, really cool experience, I'm sure. Do you remember what the dinner that was served that night was?
- [28:34]
Ken Kirsch
We had complete Christmas dinner. Turkey, stuffing, the whole nine yards. Potatoes. Yeah.
- [28:40]
Marshall Spivak
And hopefully the food was, was good by then.
- [28:42]
Ken Kirsch
It was good by then, yeah. I'm sure.
- [28:44]
Marshall Spivak
At least Captain Cider made. So we had some good cooks. You had some good cooks. Good. Well, for 1600 sailors, that's, that's a lot of food on a daily basis to prepare and to cook and to serve. So. So yeah, I, I had found a newfound appreciation when you and I went down to Norfolk last year and had a meal in the boardroom of the new USS New Jersey submarine. And going back into their galley and seeing how they do it on a submarine. It's a little bit different than us here on the battleship or what you. What it was like in service, but certainly a new appreciation for our culinary specialists keeping. Keeping the fleet, you know, well fed. You know, this is the WETSU podcast. Obviously this was not the motto or the battle flag of the battleship during the Vietnam tour later on. But you had quite a few WETSU moments during, during your time on board, least of which I'm sure was the ship going through a typhoon. Can you, can you talk to us a little bit about that experience and sort of the conditions on board during that time?
- [29:45]
Ken Kirsch
Well, we were. I forget exactly where. Somewhere between the Philippines and Japan. And we went through this typhoon. The ship was rolling 30 to 33 degrees one way, to 30, 33 degrees the other way. I was up on the 08 level, which is the pilot house, taking pictures. Weren't supposed to be out there. They said stay off the weather decks. And the waves were going over top of turret too. We had some significant damage to the ship. We lost some of the light lines on the starboard side. We only had two motor whaleboats, one on each side. They were damaged. One was hanging. Some of the electrical wire on the outside of the ship was washed off. But going in, we had a problem with the forward quarter deck. Wave came up and punched the door and flooded the quarter deck, broke the door. So in the middle of the storm, the welders, ship fitters were welding a new door on there. So we go through the other side of the storm. So we made damages damage repairs as.
- [30:39]
Marshall Spivak
We'Re going through welding a new hatch during the middle of a typhoon. That sure sounds like a wetsuit moment to me.
- [30:45]
Ken Kirsch
Yeah, you, you. There's a picture of it in the cruise book.
- [30:48]
Marshall Spivak
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You. You were set to transfer off the New Jersey to attend your sister's wedding that ultimately didn't come to fruition. Can you tell us a little bit about that story?
- [30:59]
Ken Kirsch
We were returning back to the United States with the Coral Sea aircraft carrier and a few destroyers. We were docking in Long beach on Saturday. The Coral Sea was docking in San Francisco on Friday. My sister was getting married on Saturday. So I put a request into the captain to be transferred to the Coral Sea, take leave upon arrival so I could get home and be in. My sister's wedding was all approved. Thursday sometime I was to be heloed over with a couple other guys. Wednesday morning we woke up, we didn't hear the pinging of the destroyers and the ship was running real hard. And the guys in after steering came up and they said, we're having a heading two seven zero. Well, that's due west. If you're in the Pacific and you.
- [31:40]
Marshall Spivak
Don'T want to be going west, you.
- [31:41]
Ken Kirsch
Want to be going east. Later we found out that the North Vietnamese shot down one of our planes and we were dispatched back at best possible speed. We had an on rep as we passed Pearl harbor because we had to get some fuel. We pulled into Japan in the morning, loaded supplies on board, and we were out by dark. And for about two to three weeks we were told to get lost off the coast of Korea. No shipping channels, just kind of get lost in case they needed us. There was no communications back to the United States from the ship, but the newspapers picked it up. And so no, I wasn't in my sister's wedding.
- [32:16]
Marshall Spivak
And you weren't able to get word back to her that you wouldn't be there.
- [32:20]
Ken Kirsch
No communications.
- [32:21]
Marshall Spivak
So what did she. What did she assume at the time?
- [32:23]
Ken Kirsch
My wife heard it on the news, and so they found somebody to stand in, but that's the way it goes.
- [32:29]
Marshall Spivak
So then you're back to, you know, after the short time off the Korean coast, you then come, you're on your way back, and you learn the ship is on its way to ultimately be decommissioned. What. What was the reaction of the crew at that time knowing that you just spent. Well, maybe not everyone was a plank owner like yourself, but you especially other plank owners, you know, what was the feeling that you just did all this work to get this ship back into service now that she's going to go back into mothballs again. What was the reaction along the crew about, you know, the news about decommissioning?
- [33:01]
Ken Kirsch
We were very disappointed. We were ready to go back and do it all over again, but the crew was unhappy with that. We were saddened by it. We didn't like that. We couldn't understand why either. Why were they doing it? It was doing a good job over there. It was saving lives, but why were they doing it? And the crew was not happy with it.
- [33:19]
Marshall Spivak
So when you ultimately transferred off the ship, you spent a couple months on another ship, and then you got out of the Navy. Was, you know, your enlistment up, or how did you end up, you know, separating?
- [33:30]
Ken Kirsch
My enlistment was up. I did get out three months early. There was a program where if your ship was going to Vietnam and you had less than six months in a navy left, it was up to the captain if he was going to let you out or not. In the beginning, the captain said from the prairie, we're not going to let you out. You're going back with us. So ultimately, they decided to let us out because if we went over, by the time we got over there, then it would be time for us, you know, a month over there or so, and then it would be time for them to fly us back and. And discharge us. So they let us discharge early when.
- [34:02]
Marshall Spivak
The ship was reactivated again and then recommissioned in 1983. Obviously you were no longer in the Navy, but did you follow the ship in the 80s during her fourth and final commissioning?
- [34:12]
Ken Kirsch
Somewhat. As much as I could find, yeah. Because it, you know, it was part of me. And when I left the ship, ironically, I figured, I'll never see this ship again. And here I am, what, 21 years on it? 24 years. 24.
- [34:29]
Marshall Spivak
Funny effect this place has on people. That's for sure. Yeah, you did get out. You came back, back to our great state here in New Jersey. What was the. What was the feeling when you returned home? You saw what was happening stateside and the feelings about what was happening, you know, about the war. Were you aware of any of that when you were over there? And then when you came home, I've heard you talk about, for. About you and some of the other crew members weren't treated the best. Obviously the same story that a lot of folks tell when they came home. You weren't really given a proper homecoming.
- [35:03]
Ken Kirsch
Well, even when we were on liberty, in places, once you got away from the Navy base, yeah, you got called names and stuff, and there was no respect for you. When I was living out in California after we got back from Vietnam, my wife was out there with me in the apartment complex where we were living. Nobody except the landlord knew that I was Navy. I would never wear my uniform or anything because of the comments and stuff like that. When I got out of the Navy, came home, I went back to work at RCA Space center and just tried to continue on with my life and didn't say too much about my time in the Navy to too many people.
- [35:37]
Marshall Spivak
And how was that transition from coming off, especially being on the gun line, spending so much time that this ship was firing guns, coming home, transitioning to the civilian world, going to war, work, you know, regular job, so to speak. How was that transition like for you personally?
- [35:53]
Ken Kirsch
Well, the transition was fairly easy because the job I went to was what I was doing in the Navy. I was a machinist, you know, so same type of machines, different type of work. It was all satellites and special work, but it took some adjustments and stuff like that, but it went pretty smooth for me. I know some people have had harder times, but I didn't really have any harder, hard time doing it.
- [36:16]
Marshall Spivak
If you could think back to your, you know, two. Two years as a part of the crew here, what would you say was your favorite thing about being a crew member on the battleship? And maybe what was your least favorite thing about being a crew member on the battleship?
- [36:29]
Ken Kirsch
My least favorite thing about being on it would be the time away from family. Most favorite. I was proud to be a battleship sailor. There's never going to be any more. We're a dying breed, literally. But to have the honor of being one is something. I'm proud of the work that we did. I'm proud of the work we did and how we carried ourselves and how we handled our missions.
- [36:48]
Marshall Spivak
You've been with us now, as you said, over 20, 21 years now as a museum capacity pointing now as your role as our director of our overnight encampment program. You said earlier, just a few minutes ago, that when you left the battleship, you never expected to be back on board again. Now, you've spent the last 20 years on board. So what was. What was your feeling when you learned the ship was up for donation, ultimately awarded to. To. To come back to New Jersey? Did you think right then, oh, I got to be a part of this? I'm living so close to. To Camden or what? You know, what was that reaction like when you. When you found out the ship was going to be reopened in a different new way as a museum?
- [37:29]
Ken Kirsch
Well, when I heard the ship was coming back, it was between Bayonne and Camden. I wrote a letter to the Navy saying that it should be in Camden for a number of reasons. The fresh water versus saltwater. It was where it was born. A whole bunch of reasons.
- [37:43]
Marshall Spivak
But I penned out perfectly good reason, by the way, because hindsight is 2020 on that one from dry docking last year and the condition of the hull, because we're in the. In the fresh water. I mean, that alone, I think, probably saved us millions of dollars last year.
- [37:57]
Ken Kirsch
Oh, yes, I'm sure it did. But when it was in the New York shipyard down there and they had main deck tours, I took a tour of it. But what really got me involved in a ship is my daughter Bob Hope was on. There was something on him on the news about him being ill and stuff. So I told her to go up in my dresser drawer, and there's a folder up there and get it, because I had a signed photograph of Bob Hope. Now, my daughter's a teacher. She came down with this envelope or folder, and she's going through it, and she says, why haven't I ever seen this? It was all stuff from the Navy. And I said, well, that and 50 cents will get your Coke. And I got my butt chewed and told me that, you know, the history that you guys, and not just me, but all the guys on the ship have, that when we pass, it's gone. And you got to share that history. And that was the start of me getting involved in the ship. And I came down one day, the ship had just opened, and I remember Bernadette gave me this big, thick notebook and said, you've got to learn this stuff. And then you have to do five tours on the ship to learn how to get around the ship. So the next day, I went And I read the book, what I had to read. Next day I came back and I. I said, I want to take the test. She says, which one? I said, all five. And I took them. She went and graded them and she came out and she says, how'd you do that? I says, do what? She said, she only got 10 wrong in the whole thing. She said, you got a photographic memory or what? I said, well, those two years on the ship. On the ship. Help. And she said, well, you still got to do more tours. I said, you don't need to show me around. I can show you around. They asked me a bunch of questions where things were. I took them to it and they said, never mind. And that was my start.
- [39:32]
Marshall Spivak
And you've been here ever since?
- [39:34]
Ken Kirsch
Yep. Can't get rid of me.
- [39:35]
Marshall Spivak
I would never plan to. Yeah. It wasn't until several years later, though, that you petitioned to reopen the machine shop and get it up and running again. Can you talk to us a little, a little bit about that?
- [39:45]
Ken Kirsch
It was a couple years after I was there, and, hey, I want to start doing some stuff in the machine shop. Took me a while to get management to okay. And then Joe Shields, who was in charge of maintenance, said. He said, I've had guys tell me they're machinists and they mess up my equipment. He says, no, okay. So the next week, I came in with my discharge papers, says, I'm an Mr. 2. And it said, I was on a New Jersey. And I showed it to him and I says, you know what an mister Is? He says, yeah, because he was a aviation boson mate. He says, and I was on in New Jersey. I said, not only have I run machines, I've run those exact machines down below. And his answer was, do whatever you.
- [40:23]
Marshall Spivak
Want, and the rest is history.
- [40:25]
Ken Kirsch
Rest is history. Yes.
- [40:27]
Marshall Spivak
You are our director of our overnight encampment program. Can you. Can you tell us a little bit about the overnight program and some of the cool things that the kids and the parents get to do?
- [40:36]
Ken Kirsch
Well, the overnight program gives you a little bit of a taste of what the sailors went through on the ship. We bring them aboard between 5 and 6, 6:15. And we assign them to a bunk area in one of the compartments where the sailors actually slept below the mastex. And. And then we have a safety briefing at 6:30. You know, don't touch the switches. Don't touch any valves. Don't run. That's the biggest thing. Don't run. I don't care how hard these kids hit the wall, they're not going to hurt it. There's nothing on here. Their heads are going to hurt except their heads. And we try to emphasize safety. Then we take them through the chow line and we feed them dinner and then we have break them up into small groups of 15 or so and we give them a tour guide and they take them around on different tours of the ship and we end it with, we hold a raffle during that time and whoever the lucky winner is gets to fire the 40 millimeter saluting gun at 10 o' clock at the end of the tours. Then they come back down to the mess decks and they have a little bit of time to unwind while we play a movie and then they can go to bed. At 11 o' clock we play taps and lights out and 15 is reveille. 8 o' clock is morning. Colors raised the colors. We feed them breakfast and then they can go around on the self guided tours or if we miss something we'll take them to different areas and then they're usually off the ship somewhere between 10 and 12. Some stragglers maybe 12, but a lot of them leave in between those hours and then we get ready on a lot of times we have a Friday, Saturday, we'll do it again Saturday night.
- [42:02]
Marshall Spivak
And who are the types of people that come and take part in the overnight program?
- [42:05]
Ken Kirsch
We have families, we have school groups, we have scout groups, we've had yacht clubs, church groups. A lot of families just do it. They bring their. Sometimes it's a birthday party for the kids and they'll have eight or nine kids in the family and they'll bring a cake and have a little bit of a party. So pretty much anybody, the requirements are that there has to be a child between 5 and 18 with them because it's a youth orientated, not a hotel. So the division of fish and game wanted to come one year and you know, we told them the requirements, no problem. 14 adults showed up with one child but technically it met our requirements.
- [42:40]
Marshall Spivak
You know, how has it been for you? Yeah, you're serving on the ship and now you're back here, you're running this program. How's this experience been for you over the last 20 years? You know, just tell us your, you know, your enduring affinity for, for our great warship here.
- [43:00]
Ken Kirsch
It was part of me. I enjoy it. It's something I can do to pass on to other people. It's just part of me and I enjoy doing it. So that's what I do.
- [43:08]
Marshall Spivak
We talked a little bit before about WETSU and The typhoon and the wet zu moment that came. Any other wetu moments sort of stick out in your, your brain from, from your time, from the ship's time in Vietnam.
- [43:19]
Ken Kirsch
Yeah, we had a hang fire in one of the guns. From what I was told they were doing reduced charges in one of the guns up forward. I think it was turret one, I might be mistaken on that. And they fired the gun and it didn't go bang. And they put another primer in it. It didn't go. They tried electrically firing it, percussion firing it. So they had a shell and powder and a hot gun. So they took the ship off the gun line and everybody not on watch had to go out on the fantail. And according to Captain Snyder, because I used to visit him after the Navy, he said they took seven guys and they went in the gun. He said we did something that wasn't right. He says we took, you know, the water camel some people have. They took the primer out and shoved the hose up in there and pumped a lot of water in there. Then they opened the breach and they took the powder bag out. There's a photo of this in the cruise book, by the way. And there's a patch on the bag where the primer supposed to hit while it was shooting into the bag and missing that patch. So they took that bag out, threw it over the side and put another bag in and cleared the gun. But you saw what happened to the Iowa. That could have very well happened there.
- [44:20]
Marshall Spivak
Sounds like a wetsu moment to me.
- [44:21]
Ken Kirsch
Especially for those seven guys.
- [44:23]
Marshall Spivak
I'm sure life was literally in front of their eyes at that point.
- [44:28]
Ken Kirsch
It sounds like, yeah, that was a dangerous operation.
- [44:30]
Marshall Spivak
Ken, anything you want the listeners to know about your career, your time in the service, your time on the New Jersey, or just about the battleship itself?
- [44:39]
Ken Kirsch
My time in the Navy, I enjoyed it. There were good times, there were bad times. I missed my family. Very little time in my career was I in the United States. Most of it was overseas, either in Scotland, Vietnam, whatever. I'd do it again. I mean, I'd serve my country again. Not a problem. Everybody come to the battleship. It's a piece of living history. It's a beautiful ship, it's in good condition considering the amount of people we have maintaining it. I've had sailors come on board and say it's better than some of the ships we have in the fleet today.
- [45:09]
Marshall Spivak
I heard the same thing from an admiral, an active one star admiral who was on board a few weeks ago said something very similar to me as well. Which obviously fills me with a lot of pride. And for our team here to keep this thing going in the manner in.
- [45:24]
Ken Kirsch
Which we do, I'm happy with the accomplishments I was able to accomplish while on the ship. I mean, getting a machine shop going, getting the guns going. I mean, we do do a lot of that as we did today, and it brings in a lot of revenue for us. I just enjoy it.
- [45:38]
Marshall Spivak
Ken Kirsch, USS New Jersey Veteran Plank Owner it's always a pleasure to talk with you, my friend. Thank you for your extraordinary service, both in uniform and in the decades since and for your unwavering dedication to keeping our ship that we love and the stories alive for future generations. I think your commitment reminds us why we do what we do here on the battleship. It's to serve and honor our veterans, to preserve their legacy and this legacy of this ship and to inspire those who come aboard. So thank you for always going above and beyond for the Battleship New Jersey, for our team, our crew, our staff, and especially the thousands of young kids who you have a pleasure of influencing every year to learn more about the battleship and what it is that we do here. Ken Kirsch, thank you for joining us on whatsu.
- [46:22]
Ken Kirsch
Thank you very much for having me.
- [46:24]
ELAC Representative
Operating engineers are the men and women that move mountains. And the engineers Labor Employer Cooperative ELEC puts them to work. They create opportunities for the men, women and union signatory contractors of Local 825, repaving our roads, keeping our homes bright and warm, and even building our favorite team stadium. We understand infrastructure. That's why Elac and Local 825 are ready to get to work.