← WETSU: a BattleshipNJ Podcast
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- [00:00]
Tim Parlatore
Foreign man your battle stations.
- [00:12]
Marshall Spivak
Welcome to wetsu, a Battleship New Jersey podcast. I'm your host, Marshall Spivak, and it's my honor to serve as the CEO and Executive Director of the Battleship New Jersey Museum and Memorial. Today we have a special guest joining us, Tim Parlatore.
- [00:26]
Tim Parlatore
Tim.
- [00:26]
Marshall Spivak
Tim's career spans the world of military service, law and public affairs, making him a formidable figure in both the courtroom and the fleet. A 2002 graduate of the United States Naval Academy, Tim began his naval career aboard the USS Normandy CG60, the Ticonderoga class guided missile cruiser, where he wore multiple hats as the Ordnance Officer, Auxiliaries Officer, and the Anti Terrorism Force Protection officer, all while earning his Surface Warfare Officer qualification. After three years of active duty, Tim transitioned to the Naval Reserve, serving as Executive Officer and later Commanding Officer of Naval Security Forces la Maddalena. In 2010, he was assigned to Naval Coordination and Guidance for Shipping Detachment Alpha before honorably concluding his reserve service in 2013. While balancing his reserve duties, Tim pursued a legal career, earning his degree from Brooklyn Law School and launching a distinguished career career in defense and civil litigation while specializing in serving members of the military and veterans. In 2008, he founded the Palator Law Group, a cloud based firm of 15 attorneys serving clients nationwide, including flag officers, government officials, state and federal legislators, and even a US President. In March 2025, Tim recommissioned the Navy at the rank of commander, the Navy's Reserves Judge Advocate General Corps, bringing his expertise in law back to the fleet. If his name sounds familiar, you may recognize him as a regular cnn, MSNBC and Fox News contributor. Perhaps you caught episode three of Wetzu, where we spoke with one of his law partners, retired Navy SEAL Bill Brown. Tim, welcome to wetsu. It's great to have you back on board the battleship.
- [02:05]
Tim Parlatore
Thank you. Any opportunity to get on board the.
- [02:08]
Marshall Spivak
Ship, you know, let me start where we start with everybody, which is why did you join the Navy?
- [02:15]
Tim Parlatore
Well, yeah, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Yeah, I was looking at the various service academies to try and decide where I wanted to go. And ultimately I made the decision to choose Navy over West Point and Air Force because it had the greatest breadth of opportunity. You know, I did, I was high school kid. I didn't know for sure what I wanted to do. I was kind of leaning towards the Navy, but at the same, same time I figured, you know, if you go to West Point, like everything you can do at West Point you could do in the Navy. You know, if you go to West Point, you know, you graduate, you're in the Army. Well, what if you don't want to do that? You know, if you want to be an infantryman, you could do that in the Marine Corps. If you go to Air Force Academy, you want to fly jets, you can do that at the Naval Academy. And so really just, it gave me more opportunities. And you know, that that's how I chose it.
- [03:05]
Marshall Spivak
That's a great answer. I think maybe something that an apple should put on a bumper sticker somewhere. Everything you can do at the Naval, everything you can do at every other service academy, you could do at the Naval Academy. So I watched something pretty cool a few weeks ago that was live streamed on YouTube. And you're the first person who I've interviewed who went to Annapolis since I watched it. And it was the surface war for officer ship selection ceremony. I noticed you came today and you walked in wearing your leather jacket, and I, and I specifically noted all the very crisp leather jackets of the midshipmen. Can you tell us a little bit about that ceremony? Is that how you ended up on the Normandy after Annapolis? And a little bit about that time honored tradition of the ship selection?
- [03:51]
Tim Parlatore
Sure. You know, when you're, you spend the first three years there, kind of learning about everything. And some people come in and from day one, they, they, you know, they say, hey, I watched Top Gun, I want to be a fighter pilot. Other people aren't quite sure. And so you end up, you putting in your selections. And so whichever, whichever job you end up getting, you know, I ended up asking for Navy surface warfare. And so on the actual service election night, you know, you find out a few weeks before where everybody gets into a, into the wardrobe and they hand out envelopes and you open it up and you find out, you know, what you got, and then take that forward a few weeks to the service selection night. That's where you go up. You line up by class rank, and when you get to the front of the line, look up the board and you see all the different ships in the Navy and you get to pick which one you want and also which date you want to go to surface warfare officer school. So I actually did my research at the time. You got to remember, I graduated 2002. So 911 happened during our senior year. And I did my research to figure out what is the fastest, most dangerous ship that's going to deploy immediately after graduation that I can get on as quickly as possible. And so that's how I picked the Normandy. Because when you graduate, you're supposed to have 30 days of what they call basket leave before you have to show up at your first station. Normandy was deploying 21 days after graduation, and so I picked that ship and I showed up early. And when I showed up the night before deployment, the officer of the deck looked at my orders and he says, you know, you don't have to be here for another week. Yes, sir. You know, if you check in tonight, you have to leave tomorrow morning on deployment. Yes, sir. If you show up tomorrow afternoon, you can just hang out on base for a month until they find you a flight out there, right? Yes, sir. So want to check in? Oh, yes, I do. Okay. So that's how I picked that ship. And, you know, other people, they picked ships based on, you know, location, you know, what type of ship they wanted to be on. And, you know, the different types of ships, depending on how many systems they have on board, can then dictate how difficult it is to get your service. Warfare officer Peter know, we always, you know, kind of laughed and looking over at the frigates, you know, the old Oliver has a Perry class and just how many systems they had on board versus how many we had on the cruiser and said, boy, it must be really easy to get your pin over there. Then you look over at the aircraft carrier and you realize that's why nobody goes there for their first tour, because to get a swollen pin on that thing would be way too, way too intense.
- [06:34]
Marshall Spivak
So, yeah, well, so you, you sort of hit my next question right on. On the money. I said, you graduated your senior year from Annapolis in May. A few days later, you on a ship, you're deploying as part of George Washington battle group. You're a 21 year old guy, just graduated from the academy. You get thrust into a position of authority on the ship of about what, 330 sailors and officers.
- [06:58]
Tim Parlatore
And for someone who's 400 with the air debt.
- [07:00]
Marshall Spivak
400. You know, with. For someone who was listening, who may be interested in applying to the Naval Academy, going to the Naval Academy. Can you tell us about that transition from midshipman to, you know, officer at sea deployment? Clearly, you know, the 911 aspect is a big one as a part of that. But I would love to sort of just hear about that, that transition.
- [07:24]
Tim Parlatore
Sure. I mean, it's definitely intense because, you know, you spend your first four years preparing for this, and then you get out there and. And yes, I've only been a midshipman less than a month ago. And you show up as an ensign and they assign you to a Division. And so all of a sudden you're standing there and you got 20, 30 sailors standing in front of you and they say, all right, sir, you're in charge of these people. Tell them what to do. And luckily, if you have a good chief petty officer, that's who you really need to rely upon. And I had some great chiefs that I worked with, you know, chiefs who I maintain contact with, you know, to this day. And you know, they really helped me out a lot of, you know, showing me the best way because, you know, as a junior officer, yes, I've gone to school for four years to learn how to be an ensign, but still, there's a lot left to learn. And so as a junior officer, you're kind of taking that dual role of leading but also learning. And so you have to learn about, you know, getting all of your own qualifications, figuring out how to drive the ship and, you know, all this stuff all at once. And at the same time, you know, all these sailors have rely upon you. And not only that, but the systems that you have to maintain and to make sure that you are, you know, combat ready at the time. So I was in the ordinance division, so we handled all of the guns. It's not quite the same as on this ship, a bit smaller, but, but you know, we had to make sure that they were always operational and especially going into harm's way. And so one of the things that my chief taught me right from the beginning is he said, never go to the captain and say, hey sir, we have a problem. If there's something broken, you got to tell them, but don't just go in there and say, hey sir, this is broken. And stop there. Always, always, always go in with a proposed solution. Sir, the forward 5 inch gun mat is broken. We believe it's this. And this is what I'm going to try and do to fix it. He said, always follow it up with that. Even if you're wrong, even if you're wrong to where the captain says, okay, that's, that's a good plan, Tim, but why don't we do it this way instead? Because if you just go in there and say we have a problem and I haven't even thought about a solution, that does not, you know, that's not what we want leaders to do.
- [09:43]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah, no, absolutely. In fact, you made a great point about, you know, working with and learning from, from your chiefs. We still to this day try to try to do that. On board. We have the second largest chief selects event of the reserve in the whole Country. And every August, September, we welcome about 100 chief selects on board. And we have another 200 chiefs who fly in from all around the country, be part of it. And they stay here for three or four days. They bunk overnight in, in, in, in the crew. Crew bunks and they live on board. They basically take over the ship for like a week. But it's a really great thing and I love it. Really just brings this ship back alive again. Especially when you've got the active component on and, and folks in uniform, they're doing their drills and they're doing their different, different things. It's always just a really, really special week for us here on the battleship.
- [10:37]
Tim Parlatore
But probably get a lot of good maintenance done.
- [10:39]
Marshall Spivak
Yes, we do. Yes, we do. They're very helpful with that. And you were a program coordinator for the Naval Academy's Blue and Gold program? We do. Over the years, we've worked with the service academies a lot. In fact, we're working with one right now for an event on board. What is the, what is that program? And you know, for someone again, who may be interested in going to the academy, how important is it for them to connect with, you know, someone who's an alumni?
- [11:11]
Tim Parlatore
So it's, it's a, it's a mandatory program where every candidate, you know, gets assigned a Blue and gold officer that's local to them. And you know, that is how they really get their interviews done. You know, you serve a dual role of both helping to guide the candidate through the process and also interviewing them and evaluating them so that you're both helping them and also evaluating. And so I did a lot of interviews during that time, and I don't do it anymore. But at the time we were managing basically everybody in New York City. And you got to remember to get into the service academy, you need a congressional nomination. And so they take a certain number of people from, from each congressional district. And so depending on where you lived within New York City would dictate how competitive it was to get in. So the kids in Staten island was intensely competitive, but kids in the Bronx or Harlem, there would be no, there'd be less candidates than spots open at times. And so a lot of what we were trying to do was also to go out to the schools to try and work recruiting to get more candidates in the underrepresented districts and to try and make them competitive because there were some candidates who quite frankly, we would recommend, okay, this person is probably not going to make it. And they would still get in because they were the only person in that interesting district, right. Meanwhile, you go over to another district like Staten island and you say yeah, this guy is a top candidate. He doesn't get in same year and they only live like two miles apart.
- [13:01]
Marshall Spivak
Interesting. So on the Normandy, you developed and implemented physical security plans and were responsible for the security and small arms training of the 400 sailors on board. Now during the battleships deployment, you know, as a capital ship, three out of our four commissionings actually we housed marine detachments. Mardetzi wearing my Mardette hat today. You know, talk about that. And certainly in the, you know, post 911 posture, right after 9 11, you know, what, what are some of the things that maybe you, you know, we're doing differently that you might have pre 9 11. And you know, how, how, how was it to organize the actual physical security of, of a vessel?
- [13:44]
Tim Parlatore
So for this physical security of the vessel, the defining moment wasn't 9 11, it was a year before that. It was the USS Cole. And so really what happened with the USS Cole really changed what happened on board ship. And so when I was a midshipman going out on summer cruise, you would have the officer of the deck standing out there, yes, they would have a 9 millimeter, but it wouldn't even be loaded right. They would have the magazines sitting off to the side. And from that point forward, things changed a lot. And so we had to train all the sailors on how to do this. They all had to get qualified in small arms. Whether it's a 9 millimeter or. At the time we still had M14 rifles on board the ship. We didn't even have M16s or M4 board. And so we, we were in charge of training all the people in those small arms, figuring out, you know, what we were going to do, you know, not only import, but also coming in and out of port because that's a, an incredibly vulnerable situation. And you got to remember the skin of the ship on a Ticonderoga or Darleigh Burke class destroyer is very thin. It's nothing like this thing. You know, the cold bomb would have just bounced off of battleship. And so you really need to train people not only on how to use it, but then also have a good communications net to figure out, you know, as you're seeing, you know, boats coming in, you know, to be able to evaluate them and see, you know, is this a threat and then communicate that back to say, you know, should we warn them, should we shoot them, you know, whatever. And you know, one of the other things is when we were coming in and out of port, you take on board a pilot. And so, you know, pilot being, you know, a local who is paid because they know all the intricacies of the local waterway. And so they, you know, they come on board and they tell you, you know, kind of where to go so that you don't run aground. Well, that was an issue with the USS Cole, that the pilot they believed was part of pod. And so one of the many things, you know, that I had to do was whenever we came in and out of port, I had to wear a 9 millimeter, and I had to follow the pilot around because you never knew, you know, this, you know, going through the Suez Canal, for example, you bring on a local, Egyptian, certainly, to tell us which direction the ship should go. And so that was, you know, that was also part of it. And, you know, we. We tried to, you know, we tried to use everything we had on board. And, you know, they were sending us stuff all the time. Yeah. During that period of time you had 02 to 05 time frame, they would decide, you know, somebody out there would decide, okay, we think the ships need this. They wouldn't tell us. It would just show up. And so I would constantly be getting called, you know, when we were in port Norfolk, I would get called to the quarter deck to say, hey, you have a package. And I walk down, there'd be a massive package. What the hell? What is this? Well, it's a metal detector. It's a walkthrough metal detector. You know, somebody big, Navy decided that the Normandy needs a walkthrough metal detector and, like, all sorts of other stuff. And, you know, of course, our first thing with the metal detector. Yeah, we set it up, and then we're. We're playing with it. We're trying to figure out if I set it on the metal deck of a ship.
- [17:20]
Marshall Spivak
It's the little things, Right.
- [17:21]
Tim Parlatore
Is that gonna work? You know, and, you know, some of the things they sent us made sense. Some of the things they sent us didn't make sense. Yeah, the metal detector made more sense when you put it out on the pier. Right. And. But they didn't send us any instructions or any of this stuff. It's like, you know, we got the manufacturer's instructions of how to assemble it and operate it. But then how does the Navy expect us to actually use this thing?
- [17:46]
Marshall Spivak
In a way that makes sense also, Right.
- [17:48]
Tim Parlatore
We. We kind of figured that out on our own of, okay, we're going to have the entry control point out on the pier. So we'll put it out there. And. And we, of course, practice this not only overseas, but in. In domestic ports, you know, so we. We did port visits in New Orleans and Boston. And, you know, in New Orleans, you know, I set up the whole entry control point out there. You know, Know, we use all sorts of the toys that they gave us. One of the things that they gave us that, again, they didn't give us any instructions on was spike strips. Yeah, they gave us these big, long spike strips. So we put those out on the pier, so, you know, pull it back if a vehicle was coming that we wanted to come through. And so one night we got the spike strips sitting out there, and one of these New Orleans police cruisers comes up, and my sailors are trying to tell them, hey, stop, stop. And cop is like, oh, no, it's okay, I'm a cop. And he just drives through and he gets four flat tires. And we're sitting there like, dummy, did you see us telling you to stop? It's like, well, I figured, you know, you're in my city, I'm a cop. You can't really tell me to stop. Like, well, we stopped you. And of course, he only has one donut in the back of his.
- [18:59]
Marshall Spivak
Right.
- [19:01]
Tim Parlatore
He had to call all the other cops in the area, and a bunch of them showed up to give him spare tires just so he could get out of there. And you try and figure out how to explain it to his CEO.
- [19:11]
Marshall Spivak
That's funny. That's a great story. You mentioned a lot about pilots and things. We had a great conversation just this last episode that aired with our friend Commander Ben, who piloted the battleship to and from dry dock. And he's the only. Said he's the only docking pilot in the whole reserve. And he goes around and, and, and does that kind of work and addition to his job here on the river. And we got a really nice listeners, got a real nice education about what goes into bringing ships in and out of port and things like that.
- [19:42]
Tim Parlatore
But he didn't need an arm guard.
- [19:44]
Marshall Spivak
No, he didn't.
- [19:45]
Tim Parlatore
No.
- [19:45]
Marshall Spivak
No, he did not. After Norman, you transferred from active duty to the reserve, and you were assigned to naval security forces. And I'm La Modelina. Thank you. First as the EXO and then as the CEO, and that was in northern Sardinia, Italy. Now, you've got a pretty Italian last name and, and going on assignment to what I have to believe is a really cool place. Can you. Can you talk to us about that?
- [20:16]
Tim Parlatore
Well, so in the reserves. Yeah, every reserve unit is supposed to have a A supported command, which is the active duty component. Component that they supplement. And so I never actually went to Italy with that unit. Lamoda Lena was. Was the base in Sardinia that we were supplementing their security. And so we would send people over there, you know, on their annual training to, you know, to help their security. But then the base closed. But where that unit is actually located for people to go one weekend a month was in the Bronx. So, um. And it was an Italian area of the Bronx, you know, Throg's Neck. So, you know, so there was that, you know, that cultural element to it. But. And so, you know, but it was great unit. I mean, I loved it because, you know, the Reserve Master at Arms, and for the most part, they're all cops, right. And so we had, I think, like, 50 sailors in the unit. 90% of them were NYPD. The rest were various, you know, federal agencies. There was one Fish and Wildlife cop we called Fish Cop. And, you know, my. When I was the co, when I first came in, I was the XO and the CEO, really. In oic, it's not a commissioned unit. He was. He was another service worker officer. He then transferred out, and it was me and another lieutenant, Tony Lanzawotti, and we were there together. He's a federal agent. I'm a criminal defense attorney. Running a unit full of cops. Yeah. And he was a Merchant Marine Academy grad. I was a Naval Academy grad. He was a little bit senior to me. So, you know, they just kind of came to us and said, okay, one of you. Because the CO had left, you know, somewhat unexpectedly, said, okay, one of you is going to be the CEO. One of you is going to be xo. You figure it out. So we looked at each.
- [22:07]
Marshall Spivak
Sounds unusual, though.
- [22:08]
Tim Parlatore
For the Navy, it was a bit unusual. So we looked at each other like, okay, we got to fight it out. I said, you're senior. You're CEO. He says, no, no, no. I spent all my time on merchant ships. I don't know enough about the Navy. You're CEO. And so we fought, he won. And so I got. I ended up in charge. And he's, you know, he's a tremendous friend. He's one of my best friends. And, you know, we still hang out all the time to this day. But it was also very unique because there are so certain communities within the Reserves that are. I know I'm going to upset people for saying this that are more professional than the active duty. The Master at Arms is one of those communities. Seabees is another One, because the reserve mastered arms. A lot of them are cops on the outside. They have so much experience. And so I walk into this coming off the ship and I see a sailor, you know, wearing one chevron. And so I have a certain expectation of their experience and professionalism based on what does the third class petty officer look like on the ship? This dude's a first grade homicide detective with the nypd. Nothing like what I'm expecting. Yeah, I have a first class petty officer who's a lieutenant in charge of all the counter narcotics in Queens. So, you know, those guys and girls, they were so professional and so good at their job. And you know, then we, a lot of times would also supplement security for fleet week in the Ark. And so we did that. And then one year they decided, oh, we, we'd rather have the active duty. You know, somebody at big Navy thought, oh, active duty sailors are better than reservists, so we'll, we'll do this. The problem is once you put in reserve or active duty master at arms doing that job, you've gone from people with a lot more experience and a lot more understanding of the city to 18 year old kids that are treating midtown Manhattan like it's downtown Baghdad. And the nyp, Right. And so the nypd, details that were integrated with us kept asking me like, Tim, where are your guys? What happened? We have all these guys that are not understanding, not understanding the city. And you know, it caused some problems. You know, they, they had one security incident where they believed that somebody with a Middle Eastern accent had called up asking too many questions about the ship. And so they considered this a threat. They didn't recognize the accident. The accident, it was a Hasidic Jim. And so when they showed up for the tour, all of a sudden they're sitting there, they're expecting a bunch of Middle Eastern terrorists to show up. Instead they have what they believe is the Amish showing up. Like, you're wrong on both counts, right?
- [24:57]
Marshall Spivak
Certainly. But it sounds like your, your experience in the, in the force protection role in Normandy probably helped you.
- [25:03]
Tim Parlatore
Oh yeah, for that, yeah, very much, very much.
- [25:07]
Marshall Spivak
You had something in your bio that I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about. And that would be your time on the U.S. navy Marksmanship Team. I would love to hear about that. And I think people would be certainly interested about what that is and like, and what that team does.
- [25:24]
Tim Parlatore
So that was something I started to get into when I was at the academy. And it's competitive high power rifle, so we Use. You know, when, when I started, we were still using M14s and then we transitioned to, you know, the M16 AR15 platform shooting competitions, iron sights at the 600 yards. So it's all long range shooting. And I loved it. It was a lot of fun. When I was at the academy, I continued it, you know, when I was on Normandy, we actually, I, I took a small group of gunners mates and we ended up competing in the, in the fleet rifle matches. And I think we took fourth, you know, our ship took fourth place with small command and the fleet forces matches. Yeah, a lot, lot of fun.
- [26:14]
Marshall Spivak
That's cool. We're actually in the midst of planning what will be the first ever battleship skeet shooting tournament right here on the ship. And it's probably been a long time since there's been any sort of live, live ammunition shot from the deck of the battleship. And we're looking forward to doing, doing that this summer. So while you were in the reserve, you, that's when you went to law school. Did you always intend to go to law school? Is that something that sort of came about later?
- [26:43]
Tim Parlatore
So the first three years at the academy, I thought that I wanted to be a Marine Corps administer. And so I had kind of focused all my training on that. And it was during my junior year that I had two experiences that really kind of shifted my thinking. The first experience was the summer after junior year. Know, we went to Quantico for the summer for leatherneck training where we got to, you know, really get a taste of every aspect of the Marine Corps, you know, urban combat, all this different stuff. And I learned through that experience that as a Marine Corps infantry officer goes, I would be pretty mediocre at it. You know, I wasn't going to be the worst, but I also wasn't going to be the best. That combined with a situation where my best friend got in trouble and it was a silly little prank that got taken totally out of context. And all of a sudden he's facing expulsion from the academy. And he came to me and I was always very good at reading regulations. And so we sat down and I kind of crafted a defense forum of, you know, what you did fits into this regulation here, which is not a separation level offense, but the separation level offense that you're charged with actually goes far beyond what you did. And so I explained, so this is what you need to argue. He looks at me, says, that's great, Tim. I have no idea what you just said. You need to come with me and why don't we Just go over there right now. So two of us just walked over to the Commandant's office and asked to see the staff Judge Advocate. And he was tremendously, you know, entertained at this idea of us coming in to make this argument. I explained everything to him of how I believe that it fit into the structure. And he looked at me and he said, oh, that makes sense. I'll go talk to the Admiral about it. He did that. Came back down. The admiral agreed to knock it down from a separation level offense, you know, down to a battalion level discipline where he was going to plead guilty to that lesser offense that I had picked out. He ended up doing all of his marching tours. I think he had to march around in a square for about 100 hours or so. So he didn't get kicked out. He went on to a very successful naval career. Today, right now, he is the commanding officer of USS Zumal. That those two experiences combined to make me realize the thing that I've been chasing for the past three years I will not be the best at. But this is something that I have a real talent for, something I really enjoy and something where I can really make a difference. And I saw it in my friend because I saw how he went from the utter despair of his entire life being taken away from him to being saved. And so that's when I shifted and, and I started to really, you know, pursue the JAG Corps as, as a goal. And I talked with all the, you know, the JAG officers on the yard at that point. Then we were, you know, taking the law for the junior officer course. My instructor was Lieutenant Aaron Brew, and I talked with him a lot about it and, and I tried to figure out, because there's no way to go straight from the academy into the JAG Corps that doesn't exist. The fastest way to get from there, you know, to a JAG Commission is to go through surface warfare to get qualified. And then once you get qualified, you can apply for the law education program. And so that's what I did. You know, I went out to Normandy. I loved being a surface warfare officer, but I considered it to be a stepping stone towards what I really wanted to do. I applied for the law education program and I was rejected. And so that's right after that. They were looking to downsize the community because at the time they were decommissioning all of the Oliver Hazard Perry's and all the Sprun's class destroyers and yet still producing the same number of ensigns every year. So you have, we have way Too many ensigns. They wanted to, they wanted to get 300 volunteers to leave active duty early. And so I thought, okay, I'll do that. I'll go to law school on my own. And once I get my law degree while I'm in law school, I'll apply to come back in. And so that's what I did. I went out to law school. I put in two or three more applications to try to get back onto active duty as a JAG officer. Those were all rejected as well. And so I just, I continued my reserve time as a surface worker officer.
- [31:33]
Unknown
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- [32:04]
Marshall Spivak
And then eventually, after a couple career experiences, you founded your own firm, as I mentioned, cloud based firm. You've got 15 attorneys and staff. I think you sort of just explained it a little bit, but my question is, what are some of the most valuable skills you gained in the Navy that have served you well as a lawyer, but not only a lawyer, but also a business leader? I think people sometimes forget, you know, folks who own and operate and run law firms are running small businesses.
- [32:35]
Tim Parlatore
It's, it's an entrepreneur. Yeah, it's an entrepreneurial experience. And I, without question, I always say I learned more from the Navy about how to be a lawyer than I learned from law school. Law school may have taught the technical, you know, aspects of the law, but there are millions of lawyers that have that. What makes me good, whether in, in the business of law or in the courtroom, are the lessons that I learned in the Navy. It's mission planning, it's mindset, it's analysis, it's self confidence to be able to stand up of a jury and speak. You know, so many, you know, kids go to law school and, you know, they, they graduate high school, they go to college, they go to law school. And the first time that they actually enter the real world is after the bar exam. They can't try a case in front of a jury for years because they've never done any public speaking or anything like that. And so, you know, for me to go into a courtroom and make that argument was a lot easier because of what I had done. Because, you know, as you had asked me earlier, the first time that I got to the ship and they said, all right, sir, here's your division, you know, go lead them if you can do that. Getting underway, heading over to the war zone, it gives you the confidence to be able to stand in front of a jury and make those arguments. And so, you know, so much of it comes back to that.
- [34:10]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah, it's a great answer. In, in your experience, your, your military service, you talked about the entrepreneurial side of things. You know, can you speak to, to that, how the military service prepared you not only to be the, the, you know, be a public facing person, sit in front of a jury, talk to a judge, but also the entrepreneurial side of things?
- [34:32]
Tim Parlatore
Sure. I mean, it all goes back to that idea of, of mission planning really is, you know, you do your research, you figure out a plan, and then you have the courage to trust your plan and execute it, but not just to trust the plan blindly, to trust the plan to execute it. And yet at the same time, always be watching changing conditions on the ground so that you know when to change your plan. You know, too many people, you know, whether trialers or entrepreneurs, they have this dream, their idea of this is how it's going to go, and when there's a change in the conditions, they're too in love with their plan to recognize that things have changed. And so that's really what it is. And that's why you see so many great veteran entrepreneurs today, is the work ethic, it's the confidence. But it really does come back to that, that sense of planning, of just seeing where do you want to go, you know, start, start with that. What is the objective? Okay, you have the objective. What information do you need? Gather your intelligence? What resources do you have available? Okay, what other resources can you get? And then based on that, you figure out a plan of how do I get from here, here to there using all of this information? What other information do I need to get? You know, what other intelligence do I need to gather to be able to figure this thing out and then execute it? It's a mindset.
- [36:08]
Marshall Spivak
It's a mindset for sure. I mean, you know, my next question was going to be, you know, the Navy offer requires you to make, you know, split second decisions, complex situations. Right. And I think you just sort of spoke to it pretty well. You know, how, how your service in the Navy sort of prepared you to make those tough decisions. You know, in the legal field, you talked just a little bit earlier about, you know, people going with one mindset. Things don't necessarily go that way, you know, then how do you pivot? I think you're, you're certainly correct. You know, that you have to believe the Navy puts you in that position to be able to make, make those decisions based on, you know, what you know and your intelligence and what your plan is, but then how to pivot if necessary.
- [36:51]
Tim Parlatore
It's even more important in trial work because that's where the decisions become really short fused. Because if, if I'm in a courtroom and, and I've done this where I've had a client who's innocent who's facing life in jail, and that's pressure right there because if you make a mistake, an innocent person, you know, goes to jail for the rest of their lives. And to be able to watch everything that's happening in the courtroom and to be able to make split second decisions of, you know, when to, when to pounce, when to pull back and, and everything and how to win that case, you know, that's, that's something that is, is intensely overlapping with the skills that we learn in, in the military. You know, not the, not the physical skills, but the decision making. And it's one of the reasons why you. I believe that we should have more veterans entering my industry. I think we should have a lot more veterans going to law school. And we have so many veterans that get out and they go to Wall street, they go to, you know, finance school. I wish more of them would go to law school because the mindset that they've developed and the, their ability to operate under, under stress in these conflict scenarios, it's very translatable. It's one of the reasons, like as you know, one of the guys who works for me, Bill Brown, former seal, he's great because he has that background and that experience of deploying with the SEAL teams and being able to make those kind of decisions. And I wish I had a lot more Bill Browns on my team.
- [38:32]
Marshall Spivak
Well, yeah, we had, in the conversation with Bill, we certainly had a similar discussion about that. And so that leads me to my next question that I think you sort of set up perfectly is, you know, and when we did talk to Bill, you know, we sort of talked also about that, that transition from active service to being a veteran. So how do, how do veterans transitioning to civil careers sort of best leverage in your, in your experience, their roles in the military and their experience in the military into taking on leadership roles in the legal field or, you know, or otherwise?
- [39:02]
Tim Parlatore
A lot of it goes to your sense of perspective. What is Your skill set. And yes, somebody like Bill can very easily come out and say, okay, my skill set is I know how to shoot, I know how to throw grenades, and I had a kick indoors. Or does he instead present it as, I know how to make decisions under pressure, you know, and too many people come out and they think, I have developed this particular skill set and I'm good at this. So I'm going to go into contracting, I'm going to go into law enforcement, I'm going to go into something where I'm still carrying a gun to do this. But whether it's, you know, health reasons, disability or whatever, if that doesn't, you know, pan out, then they're looking to something that's so totally different. But I say to them, take the mindset that you have gained and find a way to apply that to a new industry that you enjoy. Find an industry. Find an industry where you can do something that you enjoy that you get, get fulfillment out of. And that's why I think we need more veteran trial lawyers. Because, you know, what do I do? I plan missions, I go out there and I engage in mental combat to save people's freedom. How, how similar is that? It's mental combat, not physical combat, but it should be so translatable.
- [40:35]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah. And I think just in this conversation today, I think you. One of the things I value most about, you know, being a leader and managing people is when folks have self awareness. You said you wanted to be a Marine Corps officer. You saw, maybe you'd be sort of average, middle of the road, maybe not the best. And you went somewhere where you better than okay, better than okay. But you went somewhere that you knew that your talent, you would really excel. Right. And I think to your, to your point about just using Bill as the example of, well, okay, I know carry a gun, I know how to kick down a door. But maybe it's not even that awareness, maybe it's not even a lack of self awareness, but maybe it's even this. They don't even, you know, that mindset of that's not even something I'm even thinking about. I know I can kick indoors. I know you know, what to do with a gun in my hand. But you know, not thinking about, well, this is really at its core, you know, a decision making field, a, you know, a leadership field. And I think maybe sometimes and having talk with a lot of folks who have transitioned over the years from being in the military to them being in a civil career, you know, they might not even realize that that's something that they're good at or that's something that, you know, that maybe they should focus on.
- [41:50]
Tim Parlatore
It's, it's true. I mean, it's a different style of combat, but if, if you put down the gun and I instead teach you the art of cross examination as your tactic of combat, it's a very well translatable skill.
- [42:06]
Marshall Spivak
I was hoping you might share with us maybe an example or moment during your service where that leadership under pressure sort of defined an outcome. And we talk about that here as a wetsuit moment. A name of the podcast wetsu, which is the motto of our last CEO, Tucker. We eat this stuff up or, you know, something a little bit more than that, doing grueling work with a smile on your face. You know, eat it up. Give us some more. Any sort of wetsuit moments sort of stand out from you, from your time in the Navy?
- [42:38]
Tim Parlatore
Hurricane Isabel, oh, it was fun. So my captain, Matthew Streeter, best captain ever. Which is why, of course, he was not competitive for Advil because he was such a great captain, but he was awesome and we would have followed him to the ends of the earth. And so Hurricane Isabel came. It was going to hit directly into Norfolk. And so they sortied the whole fleet out. And so we're all out at sea, intense roles and everything. And we're, we have to do an underway replenishment. And so we're getting alongside and of course the smalls are keep pulling us apart. We parted lines and everything. And he, and I just remember him sitting on the bridge wing chain smoking cigarettes. This being 2004 time frame. And as he finishes each one, he'd throw it down, you know, down towards the water and it would go right past the fueling station. And these kids would be so scared of it because like, oh my gosh, you know, the lines parted, fuel was spread all over the place and the cigarettes coming down. And you kind of have fun with the kids on that because they're so scared of it. And they don't realize that the flashpoint of diesel fuel marine is, I think it's, you know, was it 120 degrees? You have to heat the fuel up before it'll light up. You could basically, they love to take with new kids, they would take a beaker, fill with fuel and throw a cigarette right in it and watch them duck behind the table and it would just go out like it's in water. But yeah, I remember that experience. It was just, it was so seemingly dangerous and intense, but had a lot of fun with It, Yeah, yeah.
- [44:32]
Marshall Spivak
The battleship went through, I think, more than one typhoon.
- [44:35]
Tim Parlatore
Oh, yes.
- [44:36]
Marshall Spivak
And one of our Vietnam vets, Ken Kershu, still works here with us, talked about, you know, welding on a new hatch, actually, this right outside the admiral's cabin in the middle of that typhoon to avoid the flooding. And actually we mentioned Admiral Tucker. We had a great conversation with him. And sort of the art of underway replenishment and sort of like doing that in the middle of a hurricane, I can only imagine was a special experience. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, that's a, that sounds like a really, really great wetsuit moment. Transition. A little bit earlier this year in March, you were recommissioned back into the Navy, into the Reserve. And a great ceremony at the Pentagon, personally commissioned by a secretary of defense. Why did you decide to rejoin the Navy? Finally your moment in the Jaguar.
- [45:25]
Tim Parlatore
So this is kind of a culmination of a whole bunch of different things. When I was discharged, you it, I felt like a piece of me died, you know, like there is, there was a piece of me missing for those years and you know, that I, that I wanted back and I didn't ever expect to be able to get it back. I started doing a lot more military defense cases, you know, a lot more court martials. Of course, the most well known being, you know, Eddie Gallagher tried that case. And, and in doing those cases, I really learned how lucky I was to have been rejected by the JAG Corps all those times because how I learned how to try cases in New York City from these, you know, legends of the criminal defense bar. You know, all the guys that tried the John Gotti trial, those are the guys that taught me how to try a case. And when I saw how things were actually operating in the JAG Corps, opposed to on the TV show, one of.
- [46:28]
Marshall Spivak
My favorites growing up. Oh, yes, love me too.
- [46:30]
Tim Parlatore
They don't really fly Tomcats. All but I realized this is a system that can be made so much better. And it's not that difficult. I mean, they have a lot of talented people that they don't train. And, and I've always said, you know, as the Navy, we do a lot of things really, really well. You know, we train the greatest fighter pilots in the world. World great ship drivers, greatest, you know, maritime commandos, submariners in the world. And yet we fail to train people how to conduct basic criminal investigations, prosecutions and defense. And why is that? You know, we can do it. We just don't a lot of it because is because, you know, the JAG Corp, unlike any other Government legal agency is a tiny little pyramid that has no laterals whatsoever. Yeah. Yes, they have a couple of laterals where a lieutenant will switch over from, you know, from slow to jag. But you've never had an Attorney General of the United States of America that started from law school to DOJ and just climbed up the ladder. Every single one of them went out and got experience somewhere else. Vast majority of them spent some time doing white collar defense work. So they've seen the other side of the system. And yet you've never had a Judge Advocate General of the Navy that's ever been in a US District courtroom as a lawyer. They've never been outside the system before. And their training at the JAG school is them training themselves. It's, it's still the people within this tiny little pyramid. And it's so obvious to me when I go into these military courtrooms, you know, they're not bad. Some of them are bad people, but they're not all bad people. There's some great people there that just don't know what good looks like missing.
- [48:22]
Marshall Spivak
And they're certainly missing that outside experience to really show them right.
- [48:26]
Tim Parlatore
And it's. So, it's something that I'm very passionate about. I'm very passionate about justice. I'm very passionate about taking care of service members. And those two things combined that when, when Secretary Heth, you know, was, was nominated, he's, he's been my client for eight years now. I've represented him a long time in his personal capacity. And so when he got this job and I, and I talked to him and he, he wanted me to do something and I said, well, I can't give up my civilian practice. You know, that's, I have too many people counting on me from employees, clients, bank that wants me to pay the mortgage. There are too many people counting on me to give up my civilian job. But I would give anything to be able to come back in on a part time basis as a reservist and reach in and see what I can do to help the Navy. And what I initially said was the Navy JAG Corps to improve, improve their, their training standards and, and teach them to do the things that I've learned how to do. And of course the Secretary's response to me was, you need to think bigger than that because, you know, the army would benefit from this too. Actually. He said, you need to crush some skulls in the army too. But that, that was kind of the plan that we, we had discussed. And so when he got confirmed that was one of the things that, that we decided to do. And so, and it, it wasn't just, he didn't just order it to happen. They actually held a selection board, you know, down at Bellington for, for direct commission officer board. I was selected and commissioned. They gave me, you know, service credit for the, for the 13, for the 12 years that I was out, based on the experience that I had gained. They gave me that credit towards, towards the additional ranks and they bring me back in as a commander which is, you know, commensurate with, with my level of experience. And so now I'm going to be working, you know, on a part time basis directly for the Secretary of Defense on various, you know, special projects. And you know, some of those to include how can we help to improve the justice system, whether it's organizationally, training, ethics so that we can provide the best possible representation in all areas, though, not just, obviously my experience is all in defense work, but the reality is the prosecutors could use just as much help. And when you look at, you know, when they talk about the problems of, you know, for example, sexual assault in the military, well, wouldn't it be better to have more professional and skilled prosecutors to figure out which one of those cases is real? And then how do we, you know, make sure that we handle that? Have the, have the defense attorneys be much more competent in being able to represent people accused of things that they haven't done or accused of things that are much greater than what they actually did have the staff judge advocates who are advising the commanders have a lot more perspective and understanding so that they can properly advise the commanders as opposed to just sitting there saying, oh, we need to take everybody to court martial right now.
- [51:57]
Marshall Spivak
I think you brought up a really good point and it's actually a very similar point of something that sort of bothered me about my four years at college and I had a great experience. I loved every second of it. But one of the things that bothered me was I had already, you know, started working in government and doing things in government and politics from a very young age. And I would get to school and the political science professors were all people who went to undergrad, went to, you know, got their masters, got their PhD and now they're teaching. And I'm like, these people have no experience out there in the world of running a political campaign, of being a congressional staffer. Maybe one or two of them did. And I'm sense in there, I'm sort of active on a congressional campaign at this moment. Actually where I met Bill for the first time. And I feel like I'm almost telling them things that, you know, of how it's working in, let's say, quote, the real world as opposed to what you're teaching in the classroom. So I think it's a really valid point of, you know, what it does to have that sort of outside experience and not just who are. You've done this, okay, now you've done that. I think your point about, you know, you know, an attorney General who's just worked his way up, you know, through doj, but hasn't really done anything else outside of that, it's certainly, you know, an incredibly valid point. And I'm sure, you know, you'll, you'll, you'll make a difference there.
- [53:21]
Tim Parlatore
The same is true of law school, by the way. I mean, what you're talking about is absolutely true of law school because law school professors, for the most part, I always look at them as failed lawyers because why are they teaching lawsuit? And some of them, that's what their passion is. But to be a full time law professor means you're not practicing law. And that's why, when I was in law school, I intentionally took as many of my classes at night as I could. I was a full time student, but I took as many night classes as I could with part time students because those were taught by adjunct professors, part time professors who were practicing law during the day. And I got, I got a lot more from them. And I think that the same, same applies here is that we can really can do a lot better. You know, right now, the people that are teaching, again, not bad people, but not a lot of experience. People that are teaching in justice school are, you know, third tour, you know, lieutenants who, based on just the volume of trials, maybe they've tried two cases in their whole life and they're teaching all the new kids how to try a case. And yet we do have people out there, whether it's reservists or, you know, bring in adjuncts from other communities. Why not bring in somebody from DOJ that's tried a hundred cases and have them teach principles of prosecution? You know, why not, you know, bring people from other services because your pool is so small and it's, it's just the way that it's structured right now.
- [54:46]
Marshall Spivak
That's a great point. In fact, like you, I sort of similar, I took a similar approach to my, to my issue. And I made sure I specifically picked out classes with people who had the experience that I maybe wanted to do one day and I tell you, I was, I was definitely better, better off for that in the long run. So I think you make a great point. The one thing I do want to talk about, it's one of the last things I have. It's certainly not the least. You're no stranger here in the battleship. You got married on board, just met your, your lovely wife, also an officer in the Navy Reserve, and you brought your daughter today and you're showing off this iconic piece of naval heritage to the next generation, which is really know what we're. Our primary mission here is to make sure that people understand, you know, what, what the sailors went through in the 1940s, in World War II, in the South Pacific and all throughout this ship's four commissions over the 21 years in the fleet. Why decided to get married on the battleship?
- [55:38]
Tim Parlatore
This was my wife's then fiance's mistake of allowing the groom to plan the wedding.
- [55:46]
Marshall Spivak
I planned my wedding to most of it.
- [55:48]
Tim Parlatore
And you know, so we, we were living in New York City at the time. And so when she first gave me the idea that I would have permission to plan the wedding, being in New York City, of course, my first thought was the Intrepid. Intrepid is incredibly expensive to run an event on. And then when I started, you know, looking into it and I realized, well, wait a minute, the battleship is a much better ship because I spent all my time on pointy nose ships, flat top ships. It's a lot more affordable. I want to do it here. And then once I started planning that, then I went to my old co, you know, Captain Streeter, who I mentioned earlier, when we were on the ship, he had this idea in his head, ship's captain is allowed to officiate weddings. And so anytime any of us junior officers would start to get serious with a girlfriend, he would say, that's great, you got to get married. I'll officiate it, we'll do it on the ship. Nobody took him up on that offer. And it was one of those things where like, I knew he really wanted to do that. And so I reached out to him and I said, hey, would you be able to. By now he's retired, like, would you be able to do this? We can't do it on Normandy. I'm going to get you a much better ship per day. Much, much bigger ship. And so he, he agreed. He came out, he loved it. And you know, we, we had planned this whole wedding. You know, we had the ceremony up on the folks who wanted Ford 16 inch gun mounts and you know, my, my best friend, the CEO of Zumalt at the time was lieutenant commander. He was the best man. And so they hit, you know, three slows sitting down. With too much imagination, we came up with the script for the wedding. And so they, they had this whole planned out of, like when it was time to officially announce us, you know, man and wife, and. And you may kiss the bride. But they instead used, you know, the. The first man came in and gave a report to the captain of, you know, the range, clear gun. L request green range. He says, roger that. You know, green range, you know, you may kiss the bride. And then they fired off the 5 inch saluting battery. Right? Which of course, none of the people were expecting to all of a sudden have a gun, you know, fire off simultaneous to the, to the kiss. And then. And then as everybody moved back, you know, they got it. They got a tour through the ship because the. The reception was going to be on the fantail, right on the flight deck there. And so they got a tour. We all went up to the, you know, to the bridge, into the. To do the photos. And we got some phenomenal photos.
- [58:46]
Marshall Spivak
Yes, you did. We're gonna put one on. On the screen here. And I think you're, You're. When I saw some of your photos from your wedding, I'm like, this is the perfect marketing material for Weddings on the Battleship, which we do. A lot of them want to do more of.
- [59:00]
Tim Parlatore
I was wondering if you guys did more. But yeah, we did it on the, on the fantail. They had, you know, we did the Sword Arts.
- [59:07]
Marshall Spivak
Yes.
- [59:08]
Tim Parlatore
Right next to the. To the app 16 inch gun. By now it was dark. And so as we come through the Sword Arts there. Yeah. Now we fired off another five inch round. Of course, this time it has the big fireball that everybody could see. And then right after that, totally coincidentally, across the river in Philly, there was something going on. I have no idea what it was, but they had a fireworks show. And it was so perfectly timed and perfectly placed on the river that everybody thought that I had done it. And it was extra credit. Yeah, it was. Surprised all of us, like, oh, yeah, of course. We got a fireworks display for the wedding. This is what happens when you let the groom plan it.
- [59:53]
Marshall Spivak
That's great. No, yeah, we do. We still do a bunch of weddings, small and large. We do everything. We do high school proms. We do. We've done boxing matches, concerts, wrestling, you. You know, and that's not even including your promotion ceremonies, your retirements. We got a Change of command. A Navy change of command coming up in a couple weeks as well. Yeah, just a perfect, perfect example. And your, Your, your picture, certainly, and your experience, I think hopefully will maybe lead a listener to come do another event here on the battle.
- [60:23]
Tim Parlatore
Yeah, the battleship was brought here originally while I was in high school, and when they first brought it here, they had an event and I came down for it. And, yeah, it was not in nearly as good a shape as it is now. And so we were out on the deck there for that. And then when I got into the Naval Academy, the Parents Club of New Jersey held their, you know, their welcome. Okay. Party for all the new incoming libs here. And again, it was. It was still very much at the beginning. And so, you know, they hadn't opened up all the interior space. And so, as I recall, we actually had it, like, up by the Ford, you know, gun mounts, because at the time the only thing you could tour was the main deck. And so, so they had.
- [61:13]
Marshall Spivak
That must have been right in the beginning when the ship came back.
- [61:16]
Tim Parlatore
Yeah, right. Right in the beginning. So. So we had, you know, the celebration of me getting into the Naval Academy on the ship and then, you know, my wedding on the ship. So I, even though I never served on the ship, I definitely feel very strong.
- [61:29]
Marshall Spivak
Sounds like a good full circle moment, nonetheless. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's great. That's great.
- [61:33]
Tim Parlatore
Maybe I'll do my retirement on that. This ship.
- [61:35]
Marshall Spivak
Hey, there you go. Well, we would love to have it.
- [61:39]
Tim Parlatore
Not for many years.
- [61:40]
Marshall Spivak
Not for many years. Especially now, you. You're only a few weeks into. Back into. Into the reserve, so.
- [61:45]
Tim Parlatore
Oh. With. With the amount of time that I have in, I'll be in for at least another 15 years.
- [61:50]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah, well, it's. It sounds like that's, that's exactly what you want it to be. So.
- [61:56]
Tim Parlatore
Absolutely.
- [61:58]
Marshall Spivak
Anything else, Tim, you. You. You want to share for, for the listeners or for the folks paying attention to this, to this podcast about your experience, about the battleship, about your time in the Navy.
- [62:11]
Tim Parlatore
You know, the only other thing I would say is that I love studying history. I was a political science major at the academy, but I love studying history. And particularly when you dive into histories like of this ship, books that I recently read that I. Throughout all my time at the academy, I never even knew this book existed. Admiral Halsey's Story, which is, you know, Admiral Halsey's autobiography, which was one of the most incredible books that I've read. My wife was looking at me throughout the whole time because I've never laughed out loud reading a book. Admiral Halsey was so funny.
- [62:51]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah, he's a character.
- [62:52]
Tim Parlatore
He was great. And I laughed so hard reading this book. And for anybody who hasn't read it, you know, anybody who's, you know, who's in the Navy, there's so many great, you know, stories, history and leadership lessons in that book. And, you know, it's something that the Secretary of Defense and I have talked about that, you know, kind of the, you know, the fighting spirit of Admiral Halsey is exactly what he's looking to, you know, to kind of bring back into the Navy now. So, so I would encourage people to read that book and.
- [63:29]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah, I've not read that book.
- [63:31]
Tim Parlatore
You have to. It's a fantastic book. In fact, you'll particularly like when they, when they switched him over the Missouri for the, for the surrender. Yeah, he was mad because he wanted to do it on this ship. Because we love this ship.
- [63:46]
Marshall Spivak
We talk about that often. If, if only we had a president who was the at the time from New Jersey rather than from Missouri, we would be in a different situation. Maybe the ship wouldn't be here and open us what it is. But that's, that's a great point. I'm certainly going to have to look for a copy of that book. Tim Power, Torre, thank you for your service. Thanks that this was a really great conversation. Thanks for being with us today. It's great to have you back on the battleship.
- [64:12]
Tim Parlatore
Thank you.
- [64:13]
Unknown
Operating engineers are the men and women that move mountains. And the engineers labor employer cooperative ELEC puts them to work. They create opportunities for the men, women and union signatory contractors of Local 825 repaving our roads, keeping our homes bright and warm, and even building our favorite team stadium. We understand infrastructure. That's why Elac and Local 825 are ready to get to work.