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Transcript68 lines
- [00:01]
Mom / Amanda
Hey honey, it's mom. Did you know if we switch to Verizon, we can get four phones for $0 plus four lines for $25 a line. Call me back me again. That's just $100 a month for four lines on unlimited welcome plus four phones. No trade in needed. Call me. It's mom. America's best network. Verizon. That's the one we're talking about. I'll send you text.
- [00:22]
Narrator / Host
America's best network based on RootMetric's best
- [00:24]
Nigel
overall mobile network performance.
- [00:25]
Narrator / Host
US second half 2025 four new lines on a limited welcome and autopay.
- [00:28]
Nigel
See verizon.com for details.
- [00:30]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.
- [00:57]
Narrator / Host
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- [01:09]
Mom / Amanda
That's vacation rentals done right. Book your stay now.
- [01:26]
Narrator / Host
There's a concept as old as warfare itself, as old as empire, as old as any situation in which one group has sought to exert control over another. Divide and conquer. In military strategy and politics, in the psychology of oppression, the principle is always the same. A group of people unified is harder to control, harder to break, harder to defeat. But separate them, isolate them from one another, remove the shared language, the shared experience, the ability to simply look across a room and see another face that understands. And suddenly the task of breaking a person becomes significantly easier. Kidnappers and captors have understood this for as long as hostage taking has existed. It's not random, it's not incidental. Separating captives is deliberate, calculated, and the research on what it does to the human mind is stark. Studies on the psychological effects of captivity have found that group processes are fundamentally protective, that being held alongside other captives buffers against the worst psychological damage of being held hostage. Solitary detention, by contrast, is significantly more harmful. When you remove the one person who shares your reality, your fear, your uncertainty, your dark humour, your tiny daily victories, you don't just take away company, you take away the mirror in which a person sees themself reflected as still human. For nigel and amanda, that mirror had been each other. Two people thrown into an unimaginable situation in a country neither of them knew well enough. Held by people who regarded them as commodities. They'd built something between them in those first weeks. A language of survival, a shared strategy, A fragile but vital sense that they were not entirely alone. Their captors knew exactly what they were doing when they decided to end that.
- [03:22]
Mom / Amanda
Moon in the sky I'm looking at the moon in the sky this shouldn't come as a surprise But I can't sleep War in my mind I'm trying to fight a war in my mind I don't know who's the winner tonight but it ain't me.
- [03:54]
Narrator / Host
Chapter six A mock execution.
- [03:58]
Nigel
So they came in one morning and basically told amina was her muslim name. They just basically said, amina, click their fingers and stand up. She's like, what's happening? And they were just like, don't talk. So it's just like, okay. So miss the. I guess their personalities had changed of our. Of our group. They're quite stern and look quite angry. And they grabbed her mattress and basically said, out. Basically, she was frog marched out of the room without even, you know, either of us being able to sort of say goodbye or even hug each other. And that was. That was, you know, fairly scary because it was like, well, where are they taking her? Are they taking her somewhere? You know, a completely different location? You know, I guess you go to that dark side, too, as a male of are they about to rape her or sexually assault her or physically do something to her? And look, thankfully, that didn't happen at that point. They pretty much put her in the room beside mine. And it was explained to me by the leaders of the group that because we were muslim and we were unmarried, it was obviously haram and the religion of islam for us to be sharing a room together. So it was a great way for them to conquer and divide and then start to apply pressure moving forward on the two of us. And I'd always been told, like, right from the start, and I didn't realize this, that my. Obviously, when my family received the first ransom demand, dad pretty much said, we've got $25,000 we can put on the table straight away. So that sort of created this safety net underneath. So there was this initial offer of, yes, we have money. It's going to take time for us to get more money. So when the leaders came in, they said, you know, your situation is good. Australia is negotiating. Canada's causing problems. But it was nothing like no further information. And that was the most frustrating thing, too, I think, as a journalist. And information is power. Having zero information was. Was really frustrating. And then they would say, do you need anything? What do you want? It's just like, I want to go home. And they're like, inshallah, you'll go home soon. But if you need anything, you just let us know.
- [06:29]
Narrator / Host
So you'll hear Nigel use the phrase inshallah throughout this episode. So for those who don't know, it's an Arabic term used widely across the Islamic world that translates simply as God willing. In practice, it means something closer to if it is meant to be, if it is meant to happen, it will happen. It's an expression of faith, an acknowledgment that the future is not entirely in human hands. For the deeply devout, it is woven into almost every statement about the future, every plan, every promise. I will see you tomorrow, Inshallah. We will release you, Inshallah. For Nigel, learning to speak their language, literally and figuratively, was part of surviving. And in fact, at a later stage, knowing Arabic, the language of the Quran, would be vitally important. With Amanda now gone, simple privileges that they were getting, like soap, regular clean water, and even time outside began to be restricted.
- [07:23]
Nigel
It was weird, I think, having had Amanda as that support for such a long period of time. It was just like, fuck, now I'm by myself. How am I going to deal with the boredom? And we were really fortunate. We actually received a care package. So our governments, through obviously speaking to our families, had somehow managed to send a care package into Mogadishu to. For the kidnappers to obviously collect from somewhere. And I'm not sure exactly what was in the original care package because I'm sure they pilfered some of the stuff out of it. But, like, there was digestive biscuits, a crossword puzzle, a Sudoku puzzle, a number of novels, which was great. Like an Ernest Hemingway novel. Nelson Mandela's Long Walk to Freedom. The Kite Runner.
- [08:12]
Narrator / Host
Interesting choice to put that one in there.
- [08:14]
Nigel
Oh, look. It was actually an amazing. It was an amazing book to have, and I think I read it over a hundred times in captivity.
- [08:20]
Narrator / Host
No way.
- [08:21]
Nigel
Yeah. That sort of became part of my routine, was just to read. Like, to spend a few hours every day just reading. And having got that care package after being separated, it was like I sort of dived into this book and read it within four days. And it was just like an escape
- [08:37]
Narrator / Host
as well, I would imagine. A total escape.
- [08:39]
Nigel
Yeah, it was, but it was Just like, oh, that was that stupid. No, we're not gonna be here that long. It's okay.
- [08:45]
Narrator / Host
Oh, you read it too quickly.
- [08:47]
Nigel
Read it so quickly. And then, you know, having a crossword puzzle, which I'm not great with crossword puzzles, but give me a crossword puzzle with the answers in the back is even worse. I'll just cheat on this occasion. I won't do it again. Do it again.
- [09:09]
Narrator / Host
So what I found amazing about speaking with Nigel about his story is not just the incredible depth of what he remembers and his vivid recollection of his time, but also how he can reflect back on some of the more humorous moments in an otherwise brutal and harrowing ordeal. Like when he was almost shot doing yoga.
- [09:34]
Nigel
But I started doing yoga, you know, obviously was not getting any exercise apart from being able to walk around a very small room. So I started doing yoga. And like, that had a really, you know, comical sort of outcome where it was hot. So I'm standing in my jocks, you know, doing tree pose, and three young captors run through the, through the door with AK47s, like pointed at me. They're like, what are you doing? And it's just like, it's an ancient Asian exercise ritual. And they're like, what is it? It's like, it's called yoga. And they're like, can you teach us? It's like, do I have a choice? Then the juxtaposition of the whole thing is there. I am teaching them yoga with three AK47s leaned up against the wall just like, oh my God, this is so surreal. Like, and my manic little brain going, could I grab.
- [10:34]
Narrator / Host
Literally, that's what. Through my head. Went straight through my head. I'm like, can you get a gun? Can you start shooting? Probably not a good idea.
- [10:41]
Nigel
Yeah. How do I take it off safety? How do I fire it? I'd handle guns as kids on the farm, but never an AK47. No, but, yeah, like, like I said that comical side of watching these 16, 17 year old kids trying to balance and, and it's weird, like even that bond of doing that. Whereas there was sort of this camaraderie between us and this feeling of, I guess, hope and maybe a little joy in that small point in time.
- [11:21]
Narrator / Host
One small luxury that the pair were gifted was pen and paper, which did allow Nigel to keep a diary of his captivity, but also eventually allowed for secret communication.
- [11:33]
Nigel
You become very devious as a, as a prisoner or as a hostage. So, you know, having Amanda obviously next door, just the ability to sort of knock and hear her knock back and know that she was just through the wall was super powerful. We basically took great risk to work out ways to communicate. So I can remember my room was sort of down the main hallway and then on another hallway that sort of wrapped around so my captors couldn't see my door like from line of sight. They would actually have to walk down the main hallway to see my door. And Amanda would have to walk past my door to go to the toilet, which was on the other side of me. So in this house we had a toilet that was just for us to use. Our captors used to come down and rummage through to make sure that we weren't, you know, doing anything in the toilet or leaving anything. And I can remember Amanda walked past my room and pushed it open, just flicked a note in and she said we can leave messages for each other in the bathroom in this spot. So we then basically started to leave messages and very short. And we'd worked out a knock code that there's a message, I'd come back. We had a knock code for I've read it and I've destroyed it. So we didn't want to get caught with, with any paraphernalia but you know, leaving messages of I love you. We're going to get through this, just stay strong, we're still together even though we're separated, stuff like that, which was, was incredibly powerful. The, the house that we're in around the five month mark. So our Abdi, you know, our interpreter and Amanda's cameraman and our two drivers were still being held with us at that stage, but they were being held in a different part of the house. And by that stage I think we'd been moved maybe three or four times.
- [13:30]
Narrator / Host
Compounds or just in within that sort of compound.
- [13:33]
Nigel
Compounds.
- [13:34]
Narrator / Host
Right. Okay.
- [13:35]
Nigel
Well, in total, over the whole kidnapping ordeal, we moved 13 times to 11 different locations. And there was always this method to their madness of Amanda and I were always transported first to a new location and then Abdi and the two drivers came later at night. We'd sort of become, you know, taking massive risk because they said when they separated us, if they caught us communicating, that they would beat us. But you do, you become, you become devious as a prisoner. And in this one particular house around the five month mark, we were in adjoining rooms. We had external windows that were about six meters apart and the house next door was very close to us. So there was like a little alleyway and pretty much the roofs crossed over. So it created this sort of echo chamber. So we could sit at our windows during the day when our windows were open, because they would always close them at nighttime. We realized that we could basically whisper and hear each other, so we were able to talk. We'd always have our Qurans out as though we were being religious scholars. And we would basically sit there and talk and look. As a hostage, too, your senses are completely switched on. Like, your peripheral vision goes from 180 probably to about 240. Your hearing is acute. I could hear people walking barefoot on tiles. That's how your senses just click into gear. So I could stand at my window, basically, with one eye on the door, watching shadows under the door, knowing when I needed to shut up and stop talking.
- [15:09]
Narrator / Host
The kidnappers had already made it clear that Nigel's family were negotiating and were coming to the table with money for him. However, they claimed that Amanda's people in Canada were causing problems. So one evening, they decided to up the ante by carrying out a mock execution.
- [15:38]
Nigel
We were given the opportunity on two occasions to basically where they said we could actually sit down together. So which always happened in Amanda's room and look around three and a half month mark, Amanda was taken out of the house late one night and basically was told the whole way where they were driving her that they were going to kill her. Pretty much to a point where she was hysterical. They've got her out of the car, I think a gun to the back of the head, Basically saying, right, we're gonna kill you. Finally put a phone in her hand and she's put on the phone to her mum. And I've got. Obviously everything was recorded. So I've heard that phone call, but she's completely hysterical and incoherent. But they've obviously said, like, if you don't pay money in seven days, we're gonna kill your daughter. So you need to put something on the table, otherwise she's not gonna make it. And to hear Amanda come back from that driver, three and a half hours, Because I heard her obviously being taken out of the house and was quite concerned because I wasn't going with her and unsure what they were doing with her. So when she came back, she was obviously sobbing as she was sort of frog marched back down into her room. And she came to the wall and it was like she was trying to claw her way through the mortar to try and get into my room. And it wasn't until the next morning we would obviously knock up the wall towards the window, which meant, come to the window, I want to Talk. I said, what happened? And she said, basically they took me out and they did a fake assassination on me and put me on the phone to mum and pretty much said they're going to kill me in seven days if there's no money for me.
- [17:39]
Narrator / Host
So a word of warning. The audio you are about to hear is part of that very call that Amanda was forced to make to her family after what had just happened to her. This audio is highly confronting and some may find it distressing.
- [17:52]
Mom / Amanda
Amanda.
- [17:53]
Narrator / Host
Amanda. Amanda. Amanda.
- [18:02]
Mom / Amanda
Amanda. Okay, things have changed here. Mom, you need to pay the money now. You need to save a million dollars now because they've started to torture me.
- [18:16]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
Am.
- [18:17]
Narrator / Host
Amanda, listen.
- [18:20]
Mom / Amanda
Adan promised us that they would take care of you. Amanda. Amanda, we love you. We have offered half a million dollars. Hey, honey, it's Mom. Did you know if we switch to Verizon, we can get four phones for $0 plus four lines for $25 a line. Call me back. Me again. That's just $100 a month for four lines on unlimited welcome plus four phones. No trade in needed. Call me. It's mom. America's best network. Verizon. That's the one we're talking about. I'll send you text.
- [18:55]
Narrator / Host
America's best network based on RootMetric's best
- [18:57]
Nigel
overall mobile network performance.
- [18:58]
Narrator / Host
US second half 2025. Four new lines and a limited welcome and auto pay.
- [19:01]
Nigel
See verizon.com for details.
- [19:03]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available, and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.
- [19:30]
Narrator / Host
Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Early birds always rise to the occasion for summer vacation planning because early gets you closer to the action. So don't be late. Book your next vacation early on VRBO and save over $120. Rise and shine. Average savings, $141. Select homes only. Chapter 7. We need to find a way out. This incident, as well as others, would be the catalyst for a decision. A decision that was incredibly dangerous.
- [20:05]
Nigel
It was like having someone on death row. It's just like, is this a bluff again? Or are they actually starting to lose their patience and Those next seven days were fairly stressful and for the seventh day to pass and nothing happened. And as I said, we were given the opportunity in those three months to sit down on two occasions for about an hour each time. And that's where we talked about the possibility of trying to escape.
- [20:43]
Narrator / Host
So at some point in almost every extended hostage situation, a question surfaces. It's not asked lightly. It can't be, because the answer, whatever it is, carries consequences that could end everything. Do we try and escape? Researchers who have studied the psychology of captivity describe this as one of the most agonizing dilemmas a hostage can face. They ask themselves, should I be brave and try to escape or just do as I'm told? These are difficult dilemmas for any hostage to resolve. And the reason they are so difficult, of course, is not to do with cowardice. It is clarity, a clear eyed understanding of exactly what the stakes are. Think about what Nigel and Amanda actually knew at this point. They knew they were somewhere in Somalia. They didn't know precisely where. They didn't know which direction led to safety and which led deeper into territory controlled by Al Shabaab. They didn't know whether the people they might encounter if they ran, neighbours, strangers, people on the street, would even help them or hand them straight back. In a country where foreigners were commodities and where an armed militia group had demonstrated it was willing to kill without hesitation, a stranger offering help was definitely not guaranteed. A stranger being offered a reward for their return was equally possible. And then, of course, there's the consequences of being caught before you even got out, of being heard, a door opening at the wrong moment. Survival guides for hostages are explicit on this point. It's a last resort. Do not attempt an escape unless you are absolutely certain of success, because a failed attempt may cause a serious deterioration of your situation. That deterioration has a name. In practice, it's beatings, tighter restraints, solitary confinement, torture, or simply a decision by the people holding you that you are just far too much trouble than you're worth. Running meant risking everything that they had carefully, painstakingly built as well. Every conversation, every prayer, every small act of trust that they had constructed with the captors over weeks and months. A failed escape attempt could destroy all of that in one single night. But of course, staying or staying meant more of this. More days in a room, more uncertainty, more waiting on a ransom negotiation. Neither of them had any visibility into conducted by families they couldn't contact with captors whose intentions shifted like the sand. There simply is no good option. However, one incident would push them to make that decision, the decision that it was time to run.
- [23:28]
Nigel
In kidnapping, they say escape is very risky because you can end up being killed and it's probably a last option. But we'd talked about it and I guess we'd always come to the conclusion that because Abdi and the two drivers were there, it wasn't really, didn't really feel that cool to basically be doing the runner without them and potentially leaving them as collateral damage. So we'd always sort of said, well, we can't do it. And then around the five month mark, one evening again could hear noise in Abdi in the two drivers room. And I was able to sneak out of my room and sort of stick my head around the corner, corner of the hallway. There was, it was a weird sort of balustrade on the sides so that they couldn't actually see me. And I was looking out, I could see Abdi and the two drivers with their bags being sort of frog marched out of the house. So I scurried quickly back to my room expecting that we're about to be moved. And you know, obviously quite anxious every time we were moved. It was sort of stressful anxiety because it's like you don't know who you're going to run into on the streets. Is there going to be an ambush or Al Shabaab? Are these guys Al Shabaab? I don't know. So we're starting to pack up my stuff and waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, obviously then finally fell asleep that night, woke up the next morning and Jamal, the guy that I'd sort of created this, this relationship with, opened my door and threw a bag of food across the floor. And I said, Jamal, wait, wait, wait, wait. Where's Abdi? What's happened to Abdi and the two drivers? And he said, oh, it was fairly gruff. He's like, last night they were released, they've gone home and literally turned on his feet and walked out. And for me that was like, oh fuck, finally something's happening. Like the wheels are slowly obviously starting to turn. You know, when my window was open, I basically knocked up the wall, got Amanda to the window and explained to her what Jamal had told me. And she said, jamal's told me the same thing. And we were like, this is, you know, finally something's starting to move. This is great. This is a positive sign. And I guess as the day went on, sitting by myself, it's just like something doesn't feel right. Like if they had been released, surely our kidnappers would, would move us because Three locals would sort of have an idea of where we're being held, and they're going to inform someone of that, surely, if they were released. And so that was sort of going through the back of my mind of, you know, our captors don't seem in any rush to move us. And look, it was only 14, 15 hours after they disappeared from the house. But that evening when Abdullah, and he was one of the other young guards who spoke English, and he terrified me, this kid. He was 16, and his whole outlook on life was to kill infidels and die in jihad. That's all he wanted to do, to serve Allah. And he came into the room that night with my meal. And I said, abdullah, you know, inshallah, it's great news, Abdullah, about Abdi and the drivers. And he said, what news? And I said, well, Jamal said, they were released last night. They've gone home to their families. And he said, no, Jamal hasn't told you the truth. And I said, what do you mean? And he's like, well, last night they were handed over to Al Shabaab, and this morning, all three of them were executed, were beheaded because they were working with infidels. And by that stage, the windows, our windows were closed. So it's just like, do I. I can't. I need to talk to him there to, like, hang on there. This seems more real than them being released because we're not going anywhere. Like, we're not. We're not in any rush to be moved to another location. So the next morning, thinking about it, I sort of said to Amanda, I think we need to seriously consider an escape. Because if they've killed our three colleagues who have been Muslim their entire life, what are they going to do with a couple of whities who have literally converted for five months? Like, they're not going to let us get out of here. And with time, too, all of them had started to take off their masks so I could identify people. And it's just like this. Like, if I can identify people, they're not going to let me walk out of here alive. So I said to Amanda, I think. I think we seriously need to consider ways of getting out of the house.
- [28:21]
Narrator / Host
So when you take away everything, movement, company, stimulation, the ordinary noise and textures of life, something unexpected happens to the human mind. Something that people who design solitary confinement as a punishment never quite anticipated. And something that Nigel, alone in his room in Somalia, was beginning to experience. The brain does not go quiet when you remove the world from it. In fact, it sharpens researchers Who've studied the psychology of prolonged isolation in prisons, hostage situations and prisoner of war camps have documented this phenomena consistently. Former prisoners in isolation described their vision being highly restricted, so that they lived entirely by sound. Every creak of the building became amplified, not because their hearing was better, but because they paid attention in a way they never had before. Prisoners such as Nigel report becoming acutely sensitive to sounds like plumbing systems, water rushing through pipes, smells and footsteps, Things that in ordinary life would never register. The time between a guard's rounds, the particular sound of a lock being turned versus a door simply being checked, the direction of traffic outside a window, the angle of light at a certain hour. It all becomes information. Vital, carefully catalogued information. Those who plan calculated escapes demonstrate extraordinary patience, intelligence and strategic thinking, relying on detailed knowledge of prison routines, security weaknesses, and the environment around them. And that knowledge doesn't come from anywhere dramatic. It comes from stillness, from having nothing else to do but watch, listen and think. In ordinary life, of course, the brain is constantly distracted. Your phone, your communication, background noise, different smells, sounds, small decisions and obligations. But captivity strips all of that away. And then everything else. The footsteps walking, the planes flying overhead, directions they're going, sound of traffic near or far, morning or evening, it all becomes information. Nigel had been in that room long enough. He knew it. Every crack, every sound, every pattern. He'd been scoping it, now he needed to use it.
- [30:41]
Nigel
I'd been sort of scoping the house, being able to get out of my room and move around at the back of the house and sort of investigate some. What I thought were weaknesses and thought there was potential of. There was a manhole in the kitchen, which was the room opposite mine, and I thought maybe we could get up into the roof and try and smash our way through the tin. It was just like, no, that's too noisy. Amanda thought, you know, maybe we could go over the compound wall when she was sitting outside doing her washing, because the back door was right next to my room. And she said, well, you boost me over and then I can try and pull you up. It's just like, no, that sounds real dangerous.
- [31:19]
Narrator / Host
You hang in from the wall while AK47s are firing.
- [31:22]
Mom / Amanda
Yeah.
- [31:23]
Nigel
And trying to get over razor wire, it's just like, no, that's not gonna work.
- [31:27]
Narrator / Host
Yeah.
- [31:27]
Nigel
And I was in the bathroom one day and, like, we had a. We actually had a. It was a proper seat toilet. So normally there were just holes in the ground. So I. And there was a window probably sort of six foot high up. So I stood on the on the toilet. And it had metal bars, five metal bars sort of running across. And then like those lattice style bricks that you can see through behind them. And, you know, obviously, having built my house and built Mum and Dad's house, some idea of construction and was just like, I looked at the Besser block lattice bricks and could just say that they were sort of tapped with mortar on the corners. And it was just like, that's a weakness. So the thing that's going to fuck me, though, is pretty much those iron bars that go back into the wall. There's no way I'm going to be able to dig those out. And so I jumped up on the toilet and actually grabbed onto one of the bars and it slipped. And I was like, oh, my God, that thing moves. And I managed to basically push it far enough that I could then bend the bar and see the end of it just in the hole. And I pulled it out and put it back in and was just like. I was like, if I take out three of those bars and then pretty much dig out the center row of lattice bricks, we'll have enough sort of space to get out.
- [33:03]
Narrator / Host
Nigel had just found a weak section of captivity that could spell their only hope at freedom. And he was gonna go for it.
- [33:12]
Nigel
We had a little pair of nail clippers with the little nail file at the back that you clean under your nails. That was my tool.
- [33:19]
Narrator / Host
However, their freedom wasn't going to come easy.
- [33:21]
Nigel
Started to pull on my shoes and looked down the alleyway and there's a young kid who literally saw us and just started screaming.
- [33:31]
Narrator / Host
Next time on what I survived.
- [33:34]
Mom / Amanda
Moon in the sky I'm looking at the moon in the sky this shouldn't come as a surprise, but I can't sleep. War in my mind I'm trying to fight a war in my mind I don't know who's the winner tonight, but it ain't me.
- [34:09]
Narrator / Host
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- [34:38]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
AI Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong in anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.
- [35:06]
Narrator / Host
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- [35:28]
Mom / Amanda
Honestly, I just booked my VRBO because there was a sweet wine fridge.
- [35:31]
Narrator / Host
Hey, we all have our reasons. Don't walk into a surprise if you know you verbo terms apply. See vrbo.com trust for details.