Escaping Thailands Death row - David McMillan p2

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Escaping Thailand’s Death Row — David McMillan (Part 2)"

Podcast: What I Survived
Host: Jack Laurence
Guest: David McMillan
Date: March 31, 2026
Episode Theme: The episode chronicles the incredible true story of David McMillan — the first Westerner to escape from Thailand's death row at the notorious "Bangkok Hilton" prison. Through first-person accounts, the episode covers David’s experiences before, during, and after his arrest, delving deep into the psychological pressure, desperate decisions, and day-to-day horrors of survival and escape.

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1. Episode Overview

• This episode continues David McMillan's story, focusing particularly on:
  • Surviving incarceration in Thailand's infamous prison system
  • The unthinkable daily reality of death row in a foreign country
  • His assessment of escape attempts and what ultimately drove him to try
  • Unique insights into prison psychology and the survival strategies he adopted

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2. Key Discussion Points & Insights

A. Conviction and Loss in Australia

[04:47–09:11]

• David and his business partners are arrested in Australia after a drawn-out trial.
• The trial was intense, lasting six months with 160+ witnesses; prisoners led in with chains, flanked by armed police.
• Despite severe charges, he’s not handed a life sentence, but a 15-year term (10 to serve) plus more for escape attempts.
• Memorable Moment: Acapella song performance for the jury to break tension; reflects David’s capacity for humor under pressure.

“I said to everybody... the jury’s sitting there, we’re here in the dock, and the judge isn’t here. So we started singing to them acapella songs… The guy from Thailand had a really terrible sense of rhythm.”
— David McMillan [05:26]

• Upon incarceration, David loses everything: money seized, possessions destroyed, relationships severed. Police vandalize his property.

“They burnt everything. They put the paintings in the fire, they shit in the pool. Absolutely destroyed everything.”
— David McMillan [06:36]

B. Australian Prison Release and Escape to Thailand

[09:11–12:34]

• Immediately before release, police warn David he’ll be tracked incessantly — leading to his decision to leave Australia.
• He uses a false passport to exit and heads to Thailand, only to realize at arrival he is already being tailed.
• Skillfully evades airport surveillance using trickery and local knowledge (hacks for escaping airports).

“When things fall to pieces, don’t get sentimental. When it’s all over, you don’t exist. Just go to the B plan, which is for you, the ghost.”
— David McMillan [11:01]

• Despite extreme precautions, is arrested in Thailand through a tapped phone call — his Thai associate underestimates law enforcement’s technical capabilities.

C. Thailand Imprisonment and Life on Death Row

[14:22–15:28]

• Thailand’s criminal justice system is brutally severe; drug crimes routinely mean execution or life with little expectation of survival.
• David faces psychological collapse, contemplating suicide, but is denied even privacy for that.
• The reality of the prison: 160 to a dorm; no privacy, rampant violence and disease; “no quick death, just rows of little holes in the ground.”

“Because you couldn’t kill yourself. Inside the Thai prison, there’s no privacy. Dormitories with 160 people, like sardines in there, lights on all night, mad gambas slapping down dice and dominoes all the time…”
— David McMillan [15:28]

• Contact with Australian prison escapees and brutal murderers gives chilling perspective on prison dynamics.

D. Bangkok Hilton: Living Economy, Hierarchies, and Surreal Systems

[26:06–28:46]

• Bangkok’s main prison is a “city” with 22,000+ inmates, complete with its own markets, shops, and elaborate contraband exchanges.
• The bizarre prison library’s most popular items: romance novels and pornography, with a battered, laminated, and strictly managed system to avoid theft.

“The magazines were cut up and put into lever-arch folders after having been laminated and punch-holed with very clear page numbers on front and back. So if you were missing a page, you got fined…”
— David McMillan [28:08]

E. Scheming the Impossible Escape

[28:46–32:12]

• David systematically evaluates countless escape plans, learning that involving others is too risky due to snitches and violence.
• Survival and plotting required scavenging and repurposing materials — e.g., 100 meters of army boot webbing “hidden” as a “lattice bed frame.”
• The hierarchy of inmates, “room bosses,” and the ever-lurking danger of “trustees” who would report escape plans.
• Guards both corrupt and brutal: prisoners who piss off the system beaten to death, with their deaths drawn out over weeks.

“To betray them by escaping… then they’d beat [you] to death... Their squeals would die out in a shriek of exhaustion followed by the sound of wood hitting meat.”
— David McMillan [24:10]

• Grandeur of escape attempts (e.g., disguised as a UN medical team) are weighed and abandoned after deadly outcomes and failures.
• Near the end, with the death penalty imminent, David pushes the escape plan into motion, motivated by the stark “two weeks left” deadline.

“Say to yourself in as much zen-like control as you can: I’m here in this cell, in this wall, and I want to be out there. What are the things stopping me?”
— David McMillan [29:08]

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3. Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Surviving Loss:
  • “All your ill-gotten gain you can divide into three... a third disappears, another third goes in desperate attempts to win your case, the last goes during your incarceration... In the end, nothing’s left.”
    — David McMillan [06:36]
• On the Mental State in Thai Prison:
  • “I kind of came together a bit. Then I thought, well, let’s not be hasty... Yeah, no, hell, fuck, yeah. There’s a way out. It’s a way out of everything.”
    — David McMillan [15:28]
• On Prison Social Order:
  • “Your murderer... has the silent, lasting satisfaction he ripped the life out of somebody. Not necessarily a bad thing in prison.”
    — David McMillan [19:32]

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4. Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic / Moment | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 04:47–09:11 | Conviction, property loss, and emotional aftermath | | 10:28–12:34 | Escaping Australian surveillance, almost caught in Thailand | | 14:33–15:28 | Arrest in Thailand — facing death penalty | | 15:28–21:19 | Brutality, loss, suicidal ideation on Thai death row | | 26:06–29:08 | Life and micro-economies inside the "Bangkok Hilton" | | 29:08–32:12 | The anatomy and psychology of escape planning | | 31:47–32:12 | Realizing execution is imminent; final push to escape |

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5. Thematic Wrap-up

• David McMillan’s story is a gut-wrenching, darkly humorous, and deeply human look into a world most don’t survive — marked by deprivation, violence, and constant psychological pressure.
• His survival owed as much to cold calculation as to an ability to analyze and adapt to shifting prisons’ social orders, and the willingness to lose everything, including his past identity.
• The episode leaves off with McMillan at the precipice of his escape, his fate uncertain, with an ominous “two weeks” death sentence hanging over his head.

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Transcript

[Jack Lawrence]

Hello Legends. Before we get into the episode, just a quick heads up if you have completed Season one of what I Survived. Firstly, thank you for the incredible support for the show and all the lovely comments. I truly appreciate it. I'm madly working on season two, which will be out for you very soon. In the meantime though, I have just dropped listed as Season two in what I Survived, a previous show that I created a couple of years ago called Wanted. The entire show is there for you to binge while you wait for season two of what I Survived.

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[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

isn't a straight line to a destination on the horizon. Sometimes it takes an unexpected turn with detours, new possibilities and even another passenger or three. And with 100 years of navigating ups and downs, you can count on Edward Jones to help guide you. Because life is a winding path made rich by the people you walk it with. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones Member SIPC

[Jack Lawrence]

ACAST powers the world's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend

[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

this season on the Dream

[David McMillan]

Supplies are being provided by nurses who

[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

run out in the middle of the

[David McMillan]

night and purchase diapers, but the hospital

[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

is still charging as if they still have these items. We are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show. It's a spinning plate analogy.

[David McMillan]

The second that you stop spinning those plates, that crashes.

[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

So you can never stop working. The Dream Season 4 comes at you weekly. Starting Monday, January 20,

[Jack Lawrence]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

[David McMillan]

Acast.com.

[Jack Lawrence]

On 3rd February 1967, Ronald Ryan would be the last person to be executed in Australia before capital punishment was abolished nationwide. Since then, the death penalty has been abolished in 111 countries around the world. However, there are still 53 countries who retain capital punishment. Countries such as Iran, China, Saudi Arabia, and of course, the United States. Another country which still uses the death penalty for certain crimes is Thailand. Since 1953, Thailand has executed 326 people. 319 of these has been by firing squad. A firing squad of just one. Traditionally, firing squads use multiple individuals with firearms. The aim of this is to reduce the psychological pressure on each squad member, as no single individual can be held accountable for the killing. Also, in many instances, a subset of the squad actually receives blanks, but of course, nobody is informed prior who has these blanks. So again reducing the burden on those involved. However, in Thailand, this job was done by just one person. Thailand's last executioner, who held the position for 35 years, was a man by the name of Shavare Jaraboon. He executed a total of 55 prisoners during his time at the Bangkok Hilton. This number could have been 56 if David McMillan had not made the decision to do something no other Westerner had ever managed before. Escape.

[David McMillan]

I thought, well, let's not be hasty. I thought, yeah, no help. Yeah, that's a way out. It's a way out of everything.

[Jack Lawrence]

My name's Jack Lawrence. Welcome to Wanted.

[David McMillan]

I'm a wanderer of the soul before

[Jack Lawrence]

the end I plan to behold But

[David McMillan]

I know I lose myself along the way what's gone is gone what's past is past Let me leave what belongs in the past.

[Jack Lawrence]

In our previous episode, David and his business partner Michael Sullivan and their Thai counterpart were on trial in Australia, arrested after a large scale operation by Victoria police into their drug operation had swooped in and arrested them. The trial itself would be somewhat of a production lasting an astonishing six months with over 160 witnesses. David, Michael and their Thai connection each day would be led into the courtroom in chains, flanked by heavily armed police. David says the judge hated them, especially after an impromptu performance to the jury after lunch one day.

[David McMillan]

The jury came in after lunch before he did. And there was that sort of. I said to everybody, listen, there's this embarrassing moment. The jury's sitting there, we're here in the dock and the judge isn't here. So we started singing to them acapella songs. The Nylons had a bit of a hit with I'm not that Kind of Guy. And we've got a little bit of percussion going down there. I'm not that kind of guy, really. The guy from Thailand had a really terrible sense of rhythm. But in time to come, 10 years in prison would improve his musical taste no end. Anyway, they eventually came back. Not guilty. Not guilty. Not guilty. Guilty. Of one count and the same for Michael. So that was good enough for the judge and he could have handed out life, but he didn't. 15 years. So 10 years in prison. I got a little bit more for the helicopter.

[Jack Lawrence]

David was off to prison for what would be a 10 year stretch. But what about his money, homes and expensive purchases?

[David McMillan]

There's a bit of a rule for being in a big arrest whenever all your ill gotten gain you can divide into three. A third of it disappears quite rapidly because you didn't secure it within your direct control. Another third of it goes in your desperate attempts to win the case or bring it to a lawful conclusion. And the last sort of it goes during your long incarceration which various feeble weaknesses tell you to reveal the last location of the last biscuit tin. So there's really nothing there for anybody. I think somebody could probably survive a two, three, maybe even a four year sentence with enough planning and come out relatively intact. But they have their ways now, they don't like that. And the forbidden fruit must not be eaten. And in fact, if you smuggle cigarettes, they are burnt and smuggle drugs, they are similarly treated. But the money, well, yes, sure, it's the forbidden fruit. Shall we burn that? No, what we'll do is we'll call it 100% taxation on you already. Oh, okay. And what we think you might have earned too, for that matter. Oh, right. So yes, if you took a holiday, that was a drug run. Oh, thank you. Funny, I came back with a tan. Well, who would, you filthy criminal. You know, and every time there'd be some fresh indignity. The police moved into my house in Beaumuris. They partied like it was 1999 and the local police had to come down to stop the noise. They burnt everything. They put the paintings in the fire, they shit in the pool. What absolutely destroyed everything. You know, the only thing I had to my name as I sat in the concrete bed and concrete sink and concrete window of the supermax were some old C90 cassette tapes that my lawyer had managed to get, which were the bug tapes from my house so I could listen to my former life on tape and wonder who it was in that former life.

[Jack Lawrence]

Wow.

[David McMillan]

Some of it was quite disturbing. Like Clelia wandering around the house and picking up the phone to her sister. She was in tears over something not. Not big sobs of hysteria, but upset.

[Jack Lawrence]

David made it through his 10 years of incarceration, but says just prior to his release he would get a visit from police to let him know that he would Be getting no peace on the outside. And true to their word, they followed him everywhere.

[David McMillan]

The police who came to visit me before I got released, no one had open prison by this stage. Everything was under control, I thought. But they were waiting for me and they'd follow me every day. I just wasn't up to it. So I decided to leave Australia pretty much for good.

[Jack Lawrence]

David is out of prison and has had enough. He's leaving. Police are hounding him on a day to day basis. Now, of course, David was on parole. When he leaves prison, that means no travel outside the state in which he's been paroled to and most certainly no overseas travel. But of course this is a man who's well versed in traveling undetected. So a quick visit to organize a false passport and he's off to Thailand. But as soon as he lands at the airport, he almost immediately realizes he's in trouble.

[David McMillan]

Well, I went to the airport and there were. I could see something had gone wrong. They were everywhere, not looking at me. A couple of plain clothes that I didn't particularly didn't like the look of was staring down from a balcony. The clerk behind the counter, she took my passport and said she wanted to look at something about it. Well, she said it'd only be a few minutes and what I had in mind would only be a few minutes too. I was out of there like a shot.

[Jack Lawrence]

Oh, so you left. You didn't stick around to wait to see what she.

[David McMillan]

No. And I'll give you a tip. When you're leaving an airport, don't go down to arrivals because that's where all the taxis are to pick up departing passengers. What you do is, and when I say arrivals, I mean the arrival passengers from somewhere else. You go to departures, which is a floor up. It confuses them because you're going to the wrong place and you're seeing passengers arrive, getting on planes, grab one of their taxis, throw some money in his direction because they're not supposed to pick up fares like that. They need to drive down and join the queue. But it really blocks up any of your pursuers. And I went into Bangkok city, took three tuk tuks. I walked through the Shangri La Hotel, took a drink somewhere, scratched my head, went over to see a couple of people I knew in Chinatown just to use the phones there, see? Don't. When things fall to pieces, don't get sentimental. When it's all over, you don't exist. Just go to the B plan, which is for you, the ghost. But I was so infuriated, I just couldn't. It'd take me all night to tell you the precautions I took. I had the Australian police convinced I was still in Melbourne. They'd heard me. They'd tapped my phone there and heard a conversation between me and Michael. It was actually Michael standing in a payphone with a little tape recorder and my mobile phone, holding them together, playing it over. So.

[Jack Lawrence]

So you were very, very careful about not getting caught. But you, they obviously still got you.

[David McMillan]

Yeah, it was a tap phone and my Thai friend refused to believe that the phones could be tapped there. This is Thailand, we don't do that. But the USDA more or less donated all the equipment that ran the telephone system back then in the 90s. And sure enough, it was.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings by $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.

[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

A rich life isn't a straight line to a destination on the horizon. Sometimes it takes an unexpected turn with detours, new possibilities and even another passenger or three. And with 100 years of navigating ups and downs, you can count on Edward Jones to help guide you through it all. Because life is a winding path made rich by the people you walk it with. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones Member SIPC

[Jack Lawrence]

Authorities once again have David in custody. However, this is not Australia, this is Thailand, where the punishment for anyone involved in the drug business is severe.

[David McMillan]

I knew what being arrested in Thailand meant. It meant you finished in 20 years if you survived that death penalty. Maybe during a visit into the prison in Thailand by some Australian liaison officer said, oh, by the way, you know your fact, don't you? You're finished.

[Jack Lawrence]

Deary me.

[David McMillan]

Yeah, it does look that way. Oh, and if you do somehow survive 20 years in here, which we don't think, the office betting the sweepstakes says you don't make it more than 10. Ah, thanks. But anyway, if you did make it, don't think you're getting off. We've got plans for you.

[Jack Lawrence]

David, now under arrest, says at this point he just didn't care anymore. After serving a hard 10 years in maximum security in Australia, losing everything he had, including his wife, to the prison fire, he began to contemplate suicide. However, there was just one problem.

[David McMillan]

Because you couldn't kill yourself. Inside the Thai prison, there's no Privacy. Dormitories with 160 people like sardines in there, lights on all night, mad Gambas slapping down dice and dominoes all the time. Just no, no, not a second, you know, kind of take a crap in pieces. Just rows of little holes in the ground. Toilet. People getting sick and dying slowly. Not the kind of quick death you want. But when I'd been told that there was absolutely no way out, I kind of came together a bit. Then I thought, well, let's not be hasty. I thought, no, I should really. Yeah, no, hell, fuck, yeah. There's a way out. It's a way out of everything. I'd been in Jaika when Robert Wright went and got out that night.

[Jack Lawrence]

It's the 30th of July 1983. 4:45pm on a warm afternoon in Melbourne, Australia. Six prisoners of Jaika Jiker, the high security wing of Pentridge Prison, are brought in to the day room and are being monitored by one prison officer. The men were allowed access to this day room until 9pm in the evening. They were all doing handcrafts when one of the inmates began to do some leather work in the corridor just outside the day room. The leather and the glue being used began to give off fumes. This situation with the fumes and the leather had actually been going on for many months and unbeknownst to the prison officers, they'd been being groomed by the inmates to open the electric doors that led to the exercise yard in which to release these fumes. For three months, this had been going on without incident. So just the same as the previous occasions, the prison officer in the big glass booth overlooking the corridor and day room opens two electric doors leading to the outside exercise yard. One of these doors was fully open while the other was raised about 30cm. The prisoner who was in the corridor then asks to be let into the day room and the door between the corridor and the day room was opened automatically by the prison officer. This was it. It's go time. Four prisoners, Robert Wright, David McGawley, Timothy Neville and Davey Yalton got down and crawled into the corridor as the other inmate entered the day room. They then had to crawl around eight metres straight past the prison officer's booth, remaining out of sight and low to the ground in the guard's blind spot. They all exit through the partially open door and into the exercise yard. Once in the yard, they would climb up the outer wall and jimmy open a steel lip at the top, which would give them access to the crawl space between the ceiling and the roof. Once inside, they feel their way through to the other end, crawling out and into the compound. They then would crawl along the edge of Jaika Jiker's perimeter wire, so to avoid being seen by the security cameras. The men then run north across the open, muddy ground of the prison. There are three security towers overlooking the area. But luckily for the escapees, the prison officers union had refused to allow guards to man these towers past a certain time until they had been fitted with bulletproof glass. So it was a straight shot to the final wall. Once there, the four men would scale this using a homemade grappling hook and some rope. It's up and over the wall to freedom. Unfortunately for the escapees, they were spotted by passersby, who immediately contacted police and the men would be captured not long after their daring escape.

[David McMillan]

I was invited on that escape, by the way, but we knew, I mean, there were five murderers. Not ordinarily a bad thing, but the wrong kind of murderers, you know. What is the right kind? I wouldn't say there's the right kind, but the kind of murderers that normally a murderer is very easy to get along with in a prison because people feel badly treated by the law or they've got too much time. But your murderer, at the end of the day, he has the silent, lasting satisfaction that he ripped the life out of somebody, if nothing else, and that person will never breathe a breath of air again. Maybe wrong, yes, but nonetheless, being in prison is not really as imbalanced as all that. So you are definitely easy to get along with, particularly the kind of perverse ones that killed for some strange personal reason. A guy I knew that kept the body parts of his boyfriends in the freezer and used to take them out to make love.

[Jack Lawrence]

Deary me.

[David McMillan]

Yeah, and he was very easy to get along with.

[Jack Lawrence]

Oh, it sounds like it.

[David McMillan]

Yes, I. I did ask him because I was leaving that section. You know, I've never asked you about, you know, a little bit of business there. Just one question. Was frostbite ever an issue? But he never really answered that one. I guess not, no. The wrong kind of murderer is the ones who. The more common, unfortunately, who murdered the Weak. So if I went out, escaped from Jaicho with that bunch, my first job would be to get away from them,

[Jack Lawrence]

move away from them as quickly as possible.

[David McMillan]

Their first job would be to hang on to me. So probably could have done it, but the trial was on and I just didn't want to. Wanted to see what that happened.

[Jack Lawrence]

David now had his own escape to plan. But it certainly wasn't going to be easy. He had more than just prison walls and barbed wire to worry about. Firstly, he needed to get himself somewhere more quiet where he wasn't surrounded by so many other inmates, as he also had to worry about the prison's trustees and room bosses, inmates who would happily rat you out at the drop of a hat.

[David McMillan]

There were a lot of schemes. Firstly, had to get to a much better place than this sad end in life. Managed to go to the section where the sentenced prisoners go. And after the worst possible night, we're all squashed in. They do that on purpose. I'm sorry, guys, the fan is broken, you know, really. And this kind of a room boss. But this place was so horrible. There wasn't even a room bus. I just remember the. Because my translator, before I knew a few miserable words of Thai, was English and regional. He'd translate the tie as though it was an English character, like Yorkshireman or something. So the room boss in the place where the first night center when everybody's in chains and crowded up there and he's got a little square of perfect clean linoleum and two little boys who clean up after him and bring his food and everything, he's got to put up with us in the same big. And I've got to tell you, I keep those chains quiet, lads. You know, we're all in here together. I'm no better than any of you, believe it. I'm a prisoner too. But I have to say I cannot abide the smell of pee during the night. So hold your water. But if. If. And talk to my boys about it before you do anything. If you must, you must. But as for number twos, forget about it. So that was the attitude of the trustees inside the prison. So you've got another bunch of enemies there. And it became very clear that you couldn't tell them anything.

[Jack Lawrence]

Escaping for prisoners is always a big risk in most countries. If you're caught escaping, it can mean transfers to high security prisons, time spent in solitary confinement, and even more time added to your sentence. In Thailand, the punishment is even more severe.

[David McMillan]

Some escapes were just unheard of. You could get whiskey, women Wine, whatever you like, but ruin the livelihoods of the guards. The guards have been so kind to take your ATM cards down to the bank and cash for a percentage. So kind to let you eat the food that they charge five times the retail price for when they sold it to you. So kind in many other ways. Yeah. To betray them by escaping and then they'd beat to death. Well, it was worse in front of us by sight. We just heard it happening over several weeks. They kept them in a coat locker and dragged them out in elephant chains and their squeals would die out in a shriek of exhaustion followed by the sound of wood hitting meat.

[Jack Lawrence]

Deary me.

[David McMillan]

Yeah, a bit off putting for most of my inmates friends in there. So it was hard to kind of get the escape committee going. And there was get out of jail from court scheme, even some crazy one where we're going to sneak out after hours disguised as United Nations Medical Emergency Response Team. It would have looked apart, it would have been really confusing to the Thai guards. But somehow as we carry around a stretcher with Swiss Theo on it and Sten from Sweden at the front, me at the back with a little helmet on and I don't know, they probably just start opening doors, we figured. But that was wisely abandoned and Theo didn't want to play anymore because he died in the cell and cost me two cartons of cigarettes to get the body out of the cell.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yes, that's right. David had to pay to remove a dead man from his cell. He's being housed in Thailand's infamous Bangkok Hilton, notorious for its appalling living conditions. Disease and overcrowding is just a couple of the prison's issues. The prison is designed for over 20,000 inmates, but often holds more. The prison is a vast maze of walls and buildings. On three sides of the giant square compound is a large body of water, much like a moat around an old medieval castle from above. The prison is so incredibly complex and vast and David, well, David was somewhere within it.

[David McMillan]

I didn't realize how big it was. It was before the days of Google Earth. My friends couldn't really tell me much about the place. If I'd known what I know now that, I mean, it holds 22,000 people. You can imagine it's a city. Each building has an economy and little shops and industries of its own. All kind of black market, but not black market, but part of the life. I think that the general store has a lending library, little hairdressers with two ancient chairs from the 1920s, a restaurant next door oh, the lending library. You know what the biggest rented material was?

[Jack Lawrence]

Well, I mean, is it something to do with escaping prisons?

[David McMillan]

No, there wouldn't have been. Yeah, it wouldn't have been anything. There's actually a daff of material on that in print. It was a Chinese translations into Thai of. What would you call it? Romance fiction.

[Jack Lawrence]

Oh, okay.

[David McMillan]

Oh that and pornography was the.

[Jack Lawrence]

I was going to say pornography, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that in there.

[David McMillan]

Yeah, not only that, imagine you're the pornographer library owner. How do you ensure that you ever see the material again? What a big deposit? Well, yes, but you know, you don't want to big it out of existence. You know, if it's too expensive. The magazines were cut up and put into lever out folders after having been laminated and punch holed with very clear page numbers on front and back. So if you were missing a page you got fined. Such and such familiar deposit. I mean they didn't supply sponge and soap. Just about everything else was thought of

[Jack Lawrence]

if it was that size. Obviously as you said, you didn't realize how big it was. So how do you even begin to try and decide what is the best way to get out of something like that?

[David McMillan]

I realized all the plans like going to the prison auto repair shop and being welded into a VW van or something, anything that involved anybody else was just not going to work.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah, too dangerous.

[David McMillan]

The courtroom shootout. I couldn't find anybody desperado enough to go for that. I mean I had it so it wouldn't have been so bad. But you know, you don't have to look far to find a grim story of the aftermath of that type army rangers machine gunning everybody to death in Wanchai district. And they weren't successful. But say to yourself in as much zen like control as you can, I'm here in this cell, in this wall and I want to be out there. What are the things stopping me? Sneaky, loathsome. Trust he will blow his whistle on me. Yes. What if they're in bed? Okay, nighttime. Good. What are the guards doing? Mostly sleeping or drunk. Can you make them more drunk? Yes, I can. What do you need? And in a kind of magpie scavenger way, anything that was interesting, I'd keep like a little S hook that was made of metal. Trivial things. Not so trivial. I got 100 meters of army boot webbing from the army boot manufacturing factory within the prison. There was that thick nylon woven stuff. Oh, you could swing off that. I had to disguise it as something. So I made a kind of lattice bed frame even though you're not allowed beds in the thing, only a kind of spongy mattressy bit of mat. Best sleeps I ever had. I have to tell you. It was great for my back, a 2 inch mattress. Lot to be said for it. Did all good things come to an end and after a year and a half going through very sporadic courtroom appearances and my ashen faced, shame faced really. Lawyer said sorry David, it's all finished. Two weeks, three weeks maybe. It finished, yeah. Not good. No. Even he was admitting defeat at that stage. But when he said not good if it was going to be life sentence, he would say not bad, you know.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[David McMillan]

So it looked like they were going to make a an example of it with the death penalty.

[Jack Lawrence]

So David's worst fears have been realised. Not only was he getting the death penalty, but it was to be carried out in two weeks, three at the most. It was time to leave with the

[David McMillan]

ladder above there at the top of it, I could see dawn was coming. There was a glow in the sky somehow heartening but terrifying at the same time.

[Jack Lawrence]

Next time unwanted I'm a wanderer of

[David McMillan]

the soul before the end I plan

[Jack Lawrence]

to behold But I know I'll lose

[David McMillan]

myself along the way what's up? Gone is gone what's past is past Let me leave what belongs in the past.

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[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

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[Jack Lawrence]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts Here's a show that. That we recommend.

[David McMillan]

Hey, guys.

[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where we make fun of everything, but most importantly, ourselves. I'm Paige Desorbo. I'm Hannah Berner.

[David McMillan]

Welcome to the squad.

[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time.

[David McMillan]

But of course, we can't be managed,

[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

so we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling. We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games.

[David McMillan]

And guests.

[Edward Jones Announcer / Paige Desorbo / Hannah Berner]

Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jack Lawrence]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

[David McMillan]

Acast.com.