Getting Jnr Home - 12

Summary

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What I Survived

Episode: "Getting Jnr Home - 12"

Host: Jack Lawrence
Guest: Evaristo Salas Jr.
Release Date: June 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This emotional and compelling episode tells the concluding chapter in the decades-long story of Evaristo Salas Jr., who was wrongfully convicted at age 16 for murder and spent 27 years in prison before being exonerated. Jack Lawrence sits down with Evaristo face to face for the first time to discuss the climactic events leading to his release, the experiences in court, and the profound impact of finally achieving freedom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Podcast Relationship

• Jack recounts discovering Evaristo’s case through the docuseries "Wrong Man" and realizing his fight for justice was ongoing, leading him to track down Evaristo’s family for contact.
• [03:53] Jack Lawrence: “The two episode story of Everisto Salas Jr. was truly gripping… I instantly jumped online and started searching his name… all I found was articles about how he was still fighting to get a new trial.”

2. Evaristo's Incarceration and Initial Hopes

• Evaristo was convicted at 15 of first-degree, premeditated murder and sentenced to 32 years, 9 months. At recording, he’d served about 26 years and was close to turning 42.
• [05:08] Evaristo: “I was convicted or wrongly convicted… when I was 15 years old. And I was sentenced to 32 years, nine months.”

3. Legal Nuances: Vacated vs. Exonerated

• The difference between vacating a conviction and true exoneration is discussed, highlighting the nerve-wracking uncertainty even towards the end.
• [07:16] Evaristo: “The vacate my conviction is not an exoneration, which is horrible too. So vacating my conviction would mean… they remand for a new trial… If they were to actually exonerate me, then I'd probably just be released.”

4. The Moment of Exoneration

• The family’s emotional phone call as Evaristo’s release is unexpectedly ordered, with tears and disbelief all around.
• [08:02] Debbie (Evaristo’s sister): “So he's exonerated.”
• [08:04] Jack: “No way.”
• [08:13] Debbie: “We're on our way to pick him up right now.”
• A truly moving, candid moment of years of fights culminating in liberation.

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In-Depth: The Final Hearing

5. Decision to Appear via Zoom

• Evaristo chose to remain at the prison and attend the hearing via Zoom, fearing he’d lose both his prison job and cell if he was transferred for the hearing.
• [11:06] Evaristo: “To leave prison would take away my opportunity in my job. I might not get it back… So I opted to actually stay in the prison and do the zoom… more easier for me.”

6. Judge’s Humanity Gives Hope

• For the first time, Evaristo feels treated as a human being—his judge greets him, checks he’s comfortable with the remote setup, and assures him he can ask for clarity at any moment.
• [12:15] Evaristo (describing judge): “The first thing I noticed with her is that she acknowledged me… and she made sure that it was my right to be there… If I had any questions… she’ll go ahead and put us in recess so we can kind of figure it out.”
• [13:10] Jack: “She’s treating you as you should be treated, like a human being whose life is on the line here.”

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The Witness Testimonies

7. Key Witnesses Opt for "I Don't Recall"

• Ophelia Gonzalez (victim’s partner) and Detective Treviño repeatedly feign forgetfulness to avoid difficult questions about earlier contradictory evidence.
• [15:12] Evaristo: “That was her go to. I can't recall. I don't remember. And somebody was real basic stuff…”

8. The Informant Recants – and Is Believed

• Prosecution informant Bill Braun testifies his original testimony was false—giving straightforward, consistent answers, adding credibility to his recantation.
• [18:06] Evaristo: “He just kind of spoke the way he speaks… He didn’t seem like it was rehearsed… It came off pretty as real, genuine.”

9. Showdown with Original Trial Attorney

• The prosecutor attempts to push blame onto Evaristo’s 1996 defense attorney, who forcefully argues the withheld evidence was the prosecution’s duty to disclose.
• [19:46] Evaristo: “I’m not required to ask. You’re required to provide them for me… I’m not required to just assume that you’re hiding things.”

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Confronting the Lead Detective

10. Detective Jim Rivard Faces his Lies

• The showdown arrives with the now-infamous Detective Rivard, previously unshakeable, confronted with paper trails proving his history of manipulating informants and paying for testimony.
• [23:17] Evaristo: “She had paperwork showing where he was paying them… when she started revealing these things to him, I could see his body language… She basically proved… he not only lied to get the informant off those charges, but knew that he was lying by his own statements.”
• [25:36] Jack: “Detective Jim Rivard… has now admitted to lying on the stand multiple times. He has committed perjury, a very serious offence for anyone, let alone a detective, in a murder trial.”

11. The Nail in the Coffin

• After intense back-and-forth, Rivard finally admits to paying the informant—contradicting 27 years of denials under oath.
• [26:38] Evaristo: “…she just kept saying it in a different way. And finally, he just says, yeah, I paid him. I paid him $20. And in that moment right there, I think he thought in his mind that, oh, it's just $20. But that moment, he revealed that he gave something to Bill…”

12. The "Drugs in the Drawer" Anecdote

• The prosecution tries to undercut the informant’s claims that Rivard kept drugs in his desk by questioning him on the stand. To everyone’s shock, Rivard confirms it himself—further strengthening the informant’s position.
• [29:10] Evaristo (mocking prosecutor’s failed strategy): “…so where do you keep this dope at that you were giving to these informants?… He goes, oh, I keep it in my drawer on my desk… That just made it even worse. He just buried himself even more.”

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Verdict and Immediate Release

13. The Verdict & The Judge's Poignancy

• After a sleepless night, Evaristo receives a call from his lawyer: the prosecution drops all opposition; charges vacated; release ordered.
• [30:32] Evaristo: “I call Shaver. And I can hear it in her voice right away, her tone… tells me everything. She says they're going to dismiss the charges against you… I was like, what?… It's over.”
• The judge’s closing remarks reference an earlier, almost mythical courtroom moment: Siri on someone’s phone blurts out, “Junior Silas did not commit the murder,” bringing a rare moment of laughter into the agony.
• [31:36] Evaristo: “My old lawyer got up on the stand, he had his phone sitting right there… Series [Siri] activated and says, junior Silas did not commit the murder… even Google knows that he didn’t do it.”

14. Processing and Release

• The expectation was weeks of paperwork, but just hours later, guards come to Evaristo’s cell: “pack your stuff up, you’re out of here.”
• [33:16] Evaristo: “…not even two hours later, they come down with the big old things like, pack your stuff up, you’re out of here.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being acknowledged in court:
  • “She didn’t even look in that direction. He didn’t acknowledge me a single time… I was like, okay, well, at least maybe I'm going to get a fair shot at this.” — Evaristo, [12:15]
• On informant’s recantation:
  • “To me it came off… real, genuine. You know, I say, okay.” — Evaristo, [18:06]
• On prosecutorial accountability:
  • “You’re required to provide [evidence] for me… I’m not required to just assume that you’re hiding things.” — Evaristo reiterating his attorney’s argument, [19:46]
• On the moment Rivard admits to paying the informant:
  • “She just kept saying it in a different way. And finally he just says, yeah, I paid him. I paid him $20.” — Evaristo, [26:38]
• On the emotional impact of release:
  • “They're going to dismiss the charges against you… order immediate release… It's over.” — Evaristo’s lawyer, as recounted by Evaristo, [30:32]
• On the power of a random Siri outburst:
  • “Even Google knows that he didn’t do it.” — Evaristo quoting his lawyer in court, [32:16]

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Segment Timestamps

• [01:53] First face-to-face meeting between Jack and Evaristo
• [03:53] Discovery of Evaristo’s case via "Wrong Man"
• [05:08] Evaristo introduces his background and sentence length
• [07:16] Legal distinctions: vacated vs. exonerated
• [08:02] Emotional family call: “He’s exonerated… picking him up now”
• [11:06] Deciding to attend trial by Zoom
• [12:15] Judge’s conduct gives hope for true fairness
• [15:12] Victim’s partner and police go-to: “I don’t recall”
• [18:06] Informant’s credible recantation
• [19:46] Defense attorney and prosecutor legal battle
• [23:17] Lead detective confronted with documentary evidence
• [26:38] Nail in the coffin: payment to informant finally admitted
• [29:10] “Drugs in the drawer” revelation
• [30:32] The call: verdict, vacating of case, order of immediate release
• [31:36] Humorous Siri moment in court
• [33:16] Evaristo released hours later, not weeks

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Conclusion

This episode captures the heartbreak, agony, persistence, and ultimate joy surrounding the wrongful conviction and release of Evaristo Salas Jr. It exposes systemic failings, prosecutorial misconduct, and the long-term personal toll, but at its core, it’s a story about resilience, family, and justice finally prevailing. For listeners, it is a powerful reminder of the human cost of wrongful conviction and the irreplaceable importance of truth.

Transcript

[Knox]

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[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

What makes a leader worth following? What should you really care about in your job? As technology is changing so quickly, is

[Knox]

it just gonna be about machines talking to other machines?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

I mean, should you quit your job

[Knox]

and start something on your own?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

What would that take? What is success and and risk look like when we're all at the starting gate together? These are the questions we answer each week on Lead Human with Jack Myers and Tim Spengler. Join us each week and subscribe at your favorite podcast platform and YouTube. We'll tell stories, we'll hear from some of the best, and we'll try to figure this out together. So good, so good, so good. New markdowns up to 70% off are at Nordstrom rack stores now. Stock up and save big on shoes, tops, dresses, accessories, accessories and more must haves for summer. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

[Jack Lawrence]

There he is in the flesh, mate. It's so good to see you face to face. Our first time chatting face to face after all these months, my friend. It's fantastic to finally get to do it this way as opposed to, you know, over the phone and waiting for the inevitable. You have one minute remaining.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yeah, exactly. You know, I mean, and I'm in actual much. This is my childhood room right here that I was in when I got went to prison, you know, I mean, so.

[Jack Lawrence]

Hello and welcome back to One minute remaining. My name is Jack Lawrence, the host and creator of this show. And today is part one of the final part of the story of Evaristo Salas Jr. Convicted of murder at 16, a murder he always maintained he was innocent of. And finally the courts agree. In November of 2022, I sat down at home and began, as I normally do, to scroll through a streaming service, this one being Stan, a streaming service here in Australia. I was checking out what true crime shows were on offer to watch that night when I came across a show called Wrongman, a show that was looking at the stories of three men who all claimed to be innocent of the crimes they've been convicted of. And one of those men was named Evaristo Salas Jr. Our show Wrong man

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

details three people who claim to be innocent of the charges they are convicted of. Evaristo Salas was convicted of shooting Jose Arreola on the Salas case. He said, you forcing the lie. You are kidding me. Yeah, he said, we set up Silas. There are just too many problems.

[Jack Lawrence]

The two episode story of Everisto Salas Jr. Was truly gripping. My jaw was on the floor with the evidence that had been uncovered. It was astounding. Yet the show ended on a bombshell with no word on what had become of this man. So I instantly jumped online and started searching his name expecting to see a story of his exoneration and how he had been freed for some time. But this was not the case. Instead, all I found was articles about how he was still fighting to get a new trial. By this stage, of course, one minute remaining was out in the world and I knew I had to get in touch with Mr. Salas. So I jumped online and tracked down his sister Debbie, sent her a message introducing myself and the show and asked if she thought he would be willing to speak with me. If I can use you as a sort of go between so we can work out a time and that sort of stuff, that'd be great.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure he's going to call me on Thanksgiving because that's when he, that he always calls on Thanksgiving because he wants to hear everybody. Yeah, sure, kind of, you know, and I can like, you know, just go to the side and say, hey, you know, this person wants to talk to you, you know, and kind of explain things to him.

[Jack Lawrence]

So on the 7th of December 2022, Junior and I sat down to begin documenting his story.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Well, my name is Elristo Salas Jr. I was convicted or wrongly convicted of first degree. I premeditated murder when I was 15 years old. And I was sentenced to 32 years, nine months.

[Jack Lawrence]

How long have you currently been incarcerated for?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

I've been incarcerated for about 26 years and six months.

[Jack Lawrence]

And that would make you how Old

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

sir, I'm gonna be 42 on the 17th of December. So in about a week, I'm a week and a half, I'll be 42.

[Jack Lawrence]

Little did I know almost a year later, that man would be free and exonerated of the crime which had stolen 27 years of his life. On 17 August 2023, after 27 years behind bars, Evaristo Salas Jr. S nightmare ends in a matter of minutes when a judge signs off on an order to have his conviction overturned and for him to be immediately released from custody. And a few weeks ago, Junior and I finally got the chance to sit down face to face and talk about how it all unfolded and how he's been adjusting to life back out in the free world. I mean, obviously the last time we spoke prior to this hearing, that was happening this week long hearing, we had a conversation and you said to me, look, the best we can hope for is that we go in there, they hear all the evidence, they go away. It goes then up the chain. These guys, they get, you know, all of the information from this judge and then these judges are going to look at it and, and say whether or not the ruling needs to be overturned. And the best we can hope for is that, that it gets overturned. And then they say new trial. And then hopefully then the prosecution will just turn around and say, well, we're not going to go through a new trial. When we say vacate your conviction, that's not an exoneration, is it?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yeah, the vacate my conviction is not an exoneration, which is horrible too. So vacating my conviction would mean that they vacate the decision of the jury and it's pretty much the commission is gone and then they remand for a new trial. And so this is up to the prosecutor, attorneys I would have, that's why. So if they were to actually exonerate me, then I'd probably just be released. I don't think they can even do that. Their court kills can even do that. I think the only option they have is to vacate the conviction and the remand for the trial.

[Jack Lawrence]

And then all of a sudden, obviously I get the call from his sister going, he's been exonerated. So I was, I was totally flawed, like I'm sure everybody was.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Hello?

[Jack Lawrence]

Hey Debbie, it's Jack. How are you?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Hi.

[Jack Lawrence]

What's, what's happening?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

So he's exonerated.

[Jack Lawrence]

No way.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yes.

[Jack Lawrence]

No way.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

No, he's, he's free and yes. And we're on our way to Pick him up right now.

[Jack Lawrence]

Oh my God.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

I know.

[Jack Lawrence]

Debbie. What the hell happened?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

I don't know. We walked in at 9:00 o'clock and at 9:02 the prosecutor was saying that.

[Jack Lawrence]

Debbie, I'm gonna cry.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

I know. I think we already cried so much.

[Knox]

Hey, this is Knox from the popcast. The youth mental health crisis is growing and social media is a major driver. Kids are spending up to nine hours a day on screens, often unsupervised. And studies show a direct link to anxiety, depression and even suicidal thoughts. That's where Gab comes in. Gab offers safer phones and watches for kids with no social media. Tailored to every age. Offering the right tech at the right time or tech in steps. From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for teens, each device allows kids to more safely grow their independ. Visit gab.com getgab and use code getgab for an exclusive offer. That's gab g-a b b.com getgab gab tech and steps independence for them Peace of mind for parents

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

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[Jack Lawrence]

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[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

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[Jack Lawrence]

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[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

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[Jack Lawrence]

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[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

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[Jack Lawrence]

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[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

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[Jack Lawrence]

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[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

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[Jack Lawrence]

Well, let's talk about that that week. You know, because of going to that trial, because you were that you were doing it via video link. Talk me through that.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

First I had the option of actually going to the county jail and having the hearing there. But I opted for being in the prison because to leave. Leave the prison with. Take away my opportunity in my job. I might not get it back if I come back to prison or when I get back from the courts. And it just. And the cell that I was into, the room that I was in, I could lose that in the process of going to the county jail, not to mention trip. Not to mention the trip over there. So it was just a big hassle. So I opted to actually stay in the prison and do the zoom because it was just simply more easier for me.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

But that first day I went, it was. I'd had some anxiety, but I didn't. I just. I just pictured it would be me kind of listening to the people that I haven't seen for. For a number of years, you know, two decades. They would just go back and. And say what they've already said before. You know, they wouldn't kind of veer off any kind of way.

[Jack Lawrence]

Junior says as soon as he arrived in court via zoom on day one, the actions of the judge gave him instant hope that finally he would get a fair trial. How did he know this? For the simplest of reasons that most of us would just think was common courtesy, she actually acknowledged him.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

What I noticed with the judge is, right this. The first thing I noticed with her is that she acknowledged me. She had a side portrait of her. So in order for her to look at me or the camera, she had to face this way. And so the first. She. First thing she did is when I went in there is acknowledge me, send me my name first, asked me if it was my idea or if I waived my right to actually be there court and have it over the zoom. And which I said yes. And she made sure that. That it was my right to be there, but since I wanted to be in a zoom, that she was okay with that, but that if I had any questions or anything at any time, waver down and stop her and that she'll go ahead and put us in recess so we can kind of figure it out. Not only that, but she asked me, well, how you doing this morning? And just kind of. And which was. So the last judge I had didn't even. Didn't even look in that direction. He didn't acknowledge me a single time. And so I think that right there, I got a good feeling from that because I think that when I seen that, I was like, okay, well, at least maybe I'm going to get a fair shot at this.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah, I Mean, it speaks volumes. I mean, she's treating you as you should be treated like a human being whose life is on the line here. And this is about you. So I want to make sure that you know what's going on. And we're acknowledging you that you're here because. And that's what I find so many times that, you know, people who are on trial for things are basically told to sit down and shut up, say nothing. And everyone around them is talking about them and their life and what's happening in their business, and they. They get to say nothing or do nothing. And so many times I'm like, it's just. It seems so unfair that people's lives are on the line and they have to basically sit down and shut up. Whereas, you know, at least, as you said, this judge has turned to you and said, if there's anything you're not sure about, tell me. We'll stop. We'll make sure you understand, blah, blah, which is fantastic. That's brilliant. It's great to hear.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yeah. And it was, it was a big surprise for me, you know, and, and so when I talked to my lawyer the day following that, the first Monday that we went, she. She kind of said the same thing. She goes, I mean, she acknowledged you, which is a good, good sign. She did it Monday, she did it on Tuesday, she did it on Wednesday. And then the last day she did the same thing. And so it was like every day she kind of acknowledged me. And the last judge or in the judges prior, they didn't have any kind of way of acknowledging it, you know, I mean, so it was that, in a sense, kind of gave me a good feeling. I was thinking, okay, well, at the very least, she's going to give me a fair trial. And then the way she kind of. She didn't side either way, she was pretty objective of it, and she kind of, she was straight down the line with the law and the camera. And that also gave encouragement too. So I was like, okay, this is a good judge right here.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

So.

[Jack Lawrence]

When it came to Junior's hearing, it was all about witness testimony bringing back the key players involved in his conviction from the detectives, the victim's partner who said she saw Junior at the crime scene, and of course, the informal, who we now know, says his testimony was completely false. Junior's biggest concern around this was that each one of these people, of course, apart from the informant, would play the I don't remember card. And, well, unfortunately, he was right. Starting with the victim's partner at the Time of the crime. Ofelia Gonzalez.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

That was her go to. I can't recall. I don't remember. And somebody was real basic stuff, you know what I mean? So. And that's kind of typical of people that don't want to get in trouble.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah. Because they don't want to slip themselves up. So they just go, I don't remember. As opposed to trouble trying to work their way around it and remember the lies they told, potentially.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yeah, exactly. You know, I mean, and obviously she didn't want to be there, but she kind of almost in every question, she just said, I don't recall. She said what she needed to say. She answered. When the, you know, when the prosecutor. Prosecutor came up and was kind of like, you know, giving her softball questions, she would answer those kind of questions. As soon as my. My lawyer got up, she just. I don't recall. I don't remember. I don't recall. It was a long time ago.

[Jack Lawrence]

I'm assuming she was asked about the truck and having the truck cleaned and sold. Did she just say. Was that one of the ones where she just goes, I don't remember?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

She pretty much just said, what, like the basic of all. I went to get the truck. It was at my house for, you know, and then she didn't say how long she. It was there. She said she couldn't remember. So she just kind of followed the basic. It was real vague in the way she kind of explained everything. And then when she was questioned on it, she just kept saying she didn't remember. Who gave you the truck? I don't remember. Who proved it? I don't remember. Why did you get truck? I don't remember. So every single. Almost every single question is, I don't recall. I don't remember. We basically didn't get nothing. Anything out of her, you know, I mean, so I figured, well, you know, that's. That's the way it's all gonna go.

[Jack Lawrence]

It's highly frustrating, too, because it's like, what, they've got nothing to work with, then if they. She just keeps going, I don't remember. Then what. You've got nothing to go with or nothing to work.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Exactly. It was pretty frustrating for me. I mean, when I. But I kind of assumed that with her, I assumed that she was going to be stuck in whatever she was going to be stuck in and that she wasn't going to give nothing up because maybe she feared that it was going to come back on her or she just didn't want to be there, so she was going To. As soon as she did that, the first two, three times, I knew that was going to be her strategy, and that was probably going to be the strategy of the other witnesses.

[Jack Lawrence]

Up next was Detective Trevino. Now, if you watch the wrong man show, you will see Detective Trevino being quizzed by an investigator specifically regarding the release of the truck to her failure. Detective Trevino was the one in charge of the evidence in this case, but says on the show that at no stage did he or anyone else sign off on the release of that truck.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Then they had the. The officer Trevino get up there, and he kind of did the same thing almost. He answered what he needed to answer when it comes to the prosecutor attorney. But when my lawyer asked kind of pressing questions, he went back to, I don't recall, I don't remember, or I don't recall. I was like, okay, this. This is the way it's gonna go after that, through the first day or two. I was like, oh, man. You know, maybe it's gonna just. Or the first day. I was like, yes, this is probably what's going to be. You know, this is going to be just a hearing. They're just going to keep saying that. Then we'll have to go to the court of appeals.

[Jack Lawrence]

So, sadly, no major breakthroughs there. The next to get up would be Bill Braun, the man that would be brought in as the prosecution's informant. A man who said that Junior bragged about this killing. However, would later come forward to say that his testimony was completely false and that he had been given leniency on other charges as well as a payment for his testimony.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

The former got up there Wednesday, and when he gave his statement, he was. What made him more credible to me was that he. The way he spoke, he didn't. He didn't seem like it was rehearsed. He just kind of spoke the way he speaks, you know, I mean, and he spoke in those kind of terms. And it didn't seem like he was trying to highlight anything or trying to be, you know, grandiose in the way of explaining things. He just said exactly what happened, how it happened to me. It came off pretty as real, genuine. You know, I say, okay. And he was. You know, his voice kind of didn't change. It's just kind of like, this is what I did. This is why I did it. This is who told me to do it. And I feel guilty about it. Like, he didn't practice this. You know, he just. He got up there and he answered the questions, and if he didn't understand something. He said he didn't understand it, but he answered everything the best he could. Even when the prosecutor tried to press him on things.

[Jack Lawrence]

At the evidentiary hearing, Junior's original attorney from the trial back in 1996 would take the stand. Junior says this was pretty interesting to watch as he and the prosecuting attorney began to battle back and forth. So the prosecutor was essentially trying to tell him he was a crap attorney.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

The prosecutor's trying to feed him in, but he already knows what he's doing. So they're going back and forth and battling it out. The prosecutor got real mad and, you know, started. He started frustrating him, so he got real mad. And to see him kind of, you know, kind of lose his composure and get angry and kind of just throw his hands up with them was. Was. Was a little entertaining if it wasn't such a serious thing, you know, I mean, but it was like my ex lawyer kind of just told him, look, you know, if I had these things, my argument would have been different. The prosecutor attorney was trying to make the argument that you're a terrible lawyer and the reason why nothing got overturned was because you didn't ask for him, which is really not his job. You know, they're supposed to give you.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah, exactly. What's he going to ask for if he doesn't know it's there, how does he ask for it?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yeah, and that's. That was a shoot back of the. The. My. My prior attorney, he was like, I'm not required to ask. You're required to provide them for me. And I'm not required to just assume that you're hiding things. Yeah. And then I got to get a court order every time. That's not the way the law works. So they were just battling back and forth. And, And I could see the judge, too, was kind of just her body language seemed like she was kind of annoyed by the proxy attorney because he seemed like it's a kind of a. A real soft argument to make that, hey, well, you didn't ask us for us. And then when you did ask us for us and we didn't provide it for you, you didn't press it.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

And that's not the case, you know, I mean, so even the judge seemed like. I seen her shake her head a couple times like, you know, you're making a horrible argument. And I kind of know the law, you know, to that, to that extent. And I was like, that's not really a good argument to make.

[Jack Lawrence]

Then would come time for the main event. So to speak Detective Jim Ravard. He was the lead detective in this case against Evaristo Salas Jr. The man who Bill Braun, the informant, says made him lie, told him that he was going to get Junior and made sure that he would. But there was a delay in him taking the stand.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Detective guard was supposed to come on right after him, but for whatever reason, right at the last minute said, oh, he's not going to come. You'll be here tomorrow. Which kind of took my lawyers back because they expected him to be there. And it seemed like he was trying to prepare for what they said, so he can. So maybe the notes that were given to him, because it seemed like the next day when he came, he had everything kind of like he prepared himself really good. He can sit out. Yeah, yeah, he was ready. And the problem with that was that my Lord had yet to reveal everything that she had.

[Jack Lawrence]

What was it like for you to see him after all these years? Because you haven't seen him in, you know, decades.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Oh, the thing is, too, with the zoom call his. Or the zoom meeting, I couldn't really make out his because I had. I had. The big screen was dedicated to direct, or it was just a big picture of the judge. Then I had six, I think, smaller screens. One was the witness and the. The one was the lawyers on both sides. And then. And then the. The courtroom, and then there was another one pointed towards somewhere else. So it was really small, so I couldn't really make out his face. Right. But just hearing his voice, that to me was a little bit traumatic. I mean, I. This is with the person that kind of just looked at me in the face and said, I don't really care what you say. You're going to prison.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

And so to see him, to hear him, was kind of traumatic to me, but it was also kind of. I almost felt like we. We had accomplished something at that moment, because here he was sitting on the sand being interrogated, and it flipped on him.

[Jack Lawrence]

You know, prior, he was power, and it was now. Here.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Exactly. So there's a part of me that felt a certain amount of, you know, of encouragement by seeing that, like, okay, we got here at. At the very least, all these years, you know, you've been trying to hide out or hide this lie, and now here you are in front of a judge being questioned under oath, where you can't lie and there's no outs, so you have to sit there and ask or whatever it is. To me, it was like I felt like we had accomplished something great at

[Jack Lawrence]

that Moment from the very beginning, Detective Ravard has always denied any wrongdoing in this case. He has always denied that he made Bill Braun lie. He has also always denied all allegations made against him, including that he paid Bill Braun for his testimony. And then junior's lawyer gets up and hits him right between the eyes with evidence that he cannot deny.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

And so she hit him with every single thing from his beginning, when he started as an officer and how he started kind of molding his informants and using these informants. And then she had paperwork showing where he was paying them. Not only paying them, but also getting rid of charges. And so she had that on paper. When she started revealing these things to him, I could see his body language. Like he knew like all, what does she really know? You know, because she kept pulling out more and more stuff and some of this stuff dated back to prior to my case. And she knew it all. And she questioned. And in one part, she. He was trying to influence or did influence the. One of the charges that Bill had back in Benton County. And he actually got it dismissed. But he tried to try to say he didn't. But she had on paper showing where he made the statements, had the emails and everything and. Or the memo memorandums back then. And I think that he was stunned by that. He was. I mean, how did he get that? And the way she got that was kind of a. Kind of a strange way she got it. She kind of. It all kind of just landed her lap when she was, you know, doing these public disclosures. Everything that she could find, file public disclosure on, she did that was related to reward and is working with informants. And that's the way she came up on these, on these statements and pretty much had him in a box where he tried to deny it. But she basically proved in that little moment right there that he not only lied to get the informant off those charges, but knew that he was lying by his own statements. Prosecutor, attorney tried to get up and try to stop it, those line of question. But the judge was like, he's on cross examine, so he's got to answer the question. She's pretty much on him about everything. She's not holding the punches back. She's telling them, you did this, you set up Silas, you did that. And he kept saying, no, well, I did this or did that. And. But she already had him in all these lies already. He was already caught like three or four times lying on the stand. And so he was already kind of, you can tell he was shaking. I was just thinking I was just waiting for the moment that he was going to crack. You know, I was thinking, he's going to. He's going to slip up somewhere. And the moment came where she's like, so you, you paid. You paid Bill, didn't you? And first he said, no, I didn't pay him. Oh, you paid. And she kept going back to it. She just kept saying it in a different way. And finally he just says, yeah, I paid him. I paid him $20. And in that moment right there, I think he thought in his mind that, oh, it's just $20. But that moment, he revealed that he gave something to Bill over. I said to myself, I was like, that's it got him.

[Jack Lawrence]

What has happened is monumental in this case. Detective Ravard, from day one, has stated that he had never paid the informant. He said at the original trial in 1996 that he had never paid the informant. He's said it for the past 27 years. And he again said it at the beginning of this evidentiary hearing. He was shown receipts of payments made and would state that those were from another case, not this one. And now he finally says, okay, yeah, I paid him, but it was only $20. Well, it doesn't matter whether it was $2, $20 or $20,000, because Detective Jim Rivard has now admitted to lying on the stand multiple times. He has committed perjury, a very serious offence for anyone, let alone a detective, in a murder trial. Junior's attorney doesn't stop there. She wants to tie this off with a pretty little bow. So she approaches his Jim Ravard with the receipts that had been presented to him at the start of his testimony. The receipts, he said, had nothing to do with this case.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Then she goes back, goes to the receipts and these receipts that we have, he just went like the first beginning of the. Of the testimony, the prosecutor attorney went up there and kind of said, these wouldn't be a part of it. These are part of something else. This isn't a part of it. He went down the line and saying how all these. He tried to explain them all the way that they're not a part of this, they're part of another case. Well, she went up there and said, are you talking about this receipt right here where there's $20, right? He says, yeah, that one right there. And then she kind of explained, well, you were explaining for the first 20 or 30 minutes of year on the stand that this one, because of these markings right here, this 95 right here, that none of the rest would have been paid because that 95 was there. But now you're. You're saying that you did pay him, and this one has a 95. And then he said, yes. And that was just pretty much the nail in the. In the coffin right there for him. The prosecutor tried to stop the line of questioning. The judge shut him down, said, no, no, he's gonna have to answer this. And then the proxy attorney tells the judge, look, I need a recess this and that. The judge gets angry with him and says, I'm not going to drag this case out more than it has to be dragged out. We're gonna have to finish this case right now because this stuff has to get to the court of appeals and they have to decide. They gave us a short deadline, and I'm not going to keep on dragging this out. Well, she basically said, this is what you're going to do. You're going to go to your proxy attorney, you're going to explain to him what was revealed today, and then you're going to come back tomorrow and have an answer for me, aren't you? And he kind of just like, put his head down, like, yeah. And then she went ahead and allowed to go recess for the next day. After that, he tells my lawyers, he's like, well, this was a game changer.

[Jack Lawrence]

There was also another moment during this trial that raised more than a few eyebrows when again, the informant was on the stand. Now, let's not forget that ever since this informant has come out to say his testimony was a lie, the prosecution have painted him as a liar, a criminal that can't be trusted. Of course, apart from his original statement, he couldn't lie straight and bed this guy. So they question him on another one of his claims regarding Jim Rivard and his supposed draw of drugs. And, well, that backfires tremendously.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

The informant has said, too, that. That Rivard kept large amount of drugs in his drawer. Right? So the prosecutor tried to hit. The informant is like saying, so you're telling me that Rivard just gives you drugs whenever you want? He's like, yeah. He goes, where does he have them at? He has them in his drawer. And he goes, so you're telling me that Revar just keeps large amount of cocaine, heroin, or whatever it is in his drawer? He's like, yeah. So the next day, when prosecutor went to question Revar, he goes, so where do you keep this dope at that you were given to these informants because they come at any time at night? He goes, oh, I keep it in my drawer on my desk. So that just right there confirmed it. And I don't think the pro. I could see the facial reaction on the power attorney, like, he's like, he didn't want him to say that. He didn't think he was going to say that. And he was like, well, he tried to kind of like, oh, do you keep it in lock or this? He goes, oh, it just has one key. Who signs. Oh, I sign off on it. And that just made it even worse. And he just buried himself even more. And then he kind of just pulled back and stopped asking him questions on that. And so slowly, he was almost confirming everything that the informant has said.

[Jack Lawrence]

So again, the informant's credibility is becoming stronger, while Jim Rivard's is being lost dramatically. The hearing is adjourned for the day, with everyone set to come back tomorrow. When Junior arrives back at his dorm, he calls his attorneys. They're confident, but of course don't want to celebrate too soon. Junior's attorneys tell him that they've received a call from the prosecution letting them know there will be no need to provide prepare for closing arguments. Again, this is exciting news, but let's not celebrate just yet. Call us in the morning, they say, as Junior hangs up for a very sleepless night.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

So I get up and I'm just. I'm just counting the minutes and when they want me to call them, so they want me to call them. But I think my hearing starts at 9, so they wanted me to call them at 8:30. So I call 8:30 and I call Shaver. And I can hear it in her voice right away, her tone in her voice said it all just told me everything. And right there I started smiling. I said, when she says they're going to dismiss the charges against you, they're going to. Or they're going to vacate your conviction, dismiss the charges against you and order immediate release. And I was like, what? And she's like, yeah, it's over.

[Jack Lawrence]

After 27 years of fighting to clear his name, Evaristo Salas Jr. Is told he is to be a free man. In the judge's closing remarks to Junior, she reflects on how long it's been since he was free. And she references a moment that actually happened during the trial that made her realise just how long it. It has been.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

So there was this little incident where my old lawyer got up on the stand, he had his phone sitting right there. He says, my name, Junior Silas, right? And then somehow series. Series activated and says, junior Silas did not commit the murder. And then it went so on and so on about the thing. He goes, oh, and he tried to stop it. And then everybody in the courtroom started laughing. Know the judge looks at me and says, she starts laughing too. But I start to kind of laugh too, because I heard what it said. And he's trying to. He's fumbling around and keeps saying he didn't commit the crime, do the wrong man and this and that. So it goes on and on about. About me, right? It's kind of like doing a bio on me or something.

[Jack Lawrence]

Google search on you. It's just repeating that you're an innocent man.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

And so my ex lawyer or my partner, he goes, even Google knows that he didn't do it. He said something like that remark. That's when everybody started laughing, right? And I started laughing too. And the judge looks at me and goes, she goes, you know, Sabas, it's. I'm sorry about what's going on here. I know this is serious and everything, and, and I don't mean to laugh or nothing like that. And I go, I go, no, that's all right, your honor. I mean, I don't know much about series, but, you know, I kind of get. I kind of get what's going on with it. And so she brought that back up. She said, when you said that, I realized how long you had been in prison. You've actually never held a cell phone and all that kind of stuff. She goes, so it might be kind of a little rough to adjust, but I think you'll be all right. And she goes, I'm gonna order your immediate release. And I was like, that was it.

[Jack Lawrence]

But of course, that wasn't quite it. As Junior heads back to prison, believing that it will be a few weeks for the paperwork to be filed and for the system to do its thing. Little did he know it would be just a matter of hours before he would be on the outside of those walls, a truly free man.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

And so we had thought that it was going to take maybe a week to process the paperwork and all that stuff. So I was like, well, yeah, probably next week or something. Not even two hours later, they come down with the big old things like, pack your stuff up, you're out of here.

[Jack Lawrence]

And I'm like, Next time on One Minute remaining. One minute Remaining is a mashed pumpkin. Production created, hosted and produced by Jack Lawrence Audio and sound design by Jack Lawrence and Dom Evans of esa.

[Knox]

Hey, this is Knox from the. The youth mental health crisis is growing and social media is a major driver. Kids are spending up to nine hours a day on screens, often unsupervised, and stud a direct link to anxiety, depression and even suicidal thoughts. That's where Gab comes in. Gab offers safer phones and watches for kids with no social media. Tailored to every age, offering the right tech at the right time or tech in steps. From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for teens, each device allows kids to more safely grow their independence. Visit gab.com getgab and use code getg gab for an exclusive offer. That's gab g a b b.com forward slash getgab gab tech and steps Independence for them. Peace of mind for parents.

[Jack Lawrence]

Howdy, howdy ho and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fan Girls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson. And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.

[Knox]

And we are currently deep diving Brandon

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn.

[Jack Lawrence]

But here's the catch.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Steven here has not read Mistborn before. That's right. Hey hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter. And along the way we'll do character

[Knox]

deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next.

[Jack Lawrence]

Spoiler alert.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

He'll be wrong. News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. A photographer in Texas earns an extra $47,000 a year shooting Star wars cosplay portraits. A teacher in Maryland turns her woodworking hobby into a five figure side income without leaving the classroom. And a couple in Pennsylvania will rent

[Knox]

you backyard chickens for the season so

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

you can try the egg laying life without commitment. My name is Chris Gillipo.

[Knox]

I'm the host of side Hustle School. I share these kinds of stories every

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

single day in detail, with full transparency about the numbers. The point isn't just to inspire you. It's to show you what's possible. Proof that ordinary people are quietly building

[Knox]

extra income in surprising ways, including a

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

few ideas you can borrow less than 10 minutes a day, every day. Subscribe or follow side Hustle School wherever

[Knox]

you get your podcasts or find us

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

directly@side hustleschool.com Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.