← What I survived
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- [00:00]
Knox
Hey, this is Knox from the podcast. The youth mental health crisis is growing and social media is a major driver. Kids are spending up to nine hours a day on screens, often unsupervised, and studies show a direct link to anxiety, depression and even suicidal thoughts. That's where Gab comes in. Gab offers safer phones and watches for kids with no social media. Tailored to every age, offering the right tech at the right time or tech in steps. From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for teens, each device allows kids to more safely grow their independence. Visual visit gab.com getgab and use code getgab for an exclusive offer. That's gab G-A-B-B.com getgab gab tech and steps independence for them, peace of mind
- [00:45]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
for parents we all belong outside. We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it, but the outdoors is closer than we realize. With Alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with Alltrails.
- [01:19]
Jack Lawrence
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [01:26]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
The Real Housewives is a guilty pleasure for most, but if you're looking to not feel guilty about that pleasure, tune in to Everything Iconic with me, Danny Pellegrino, where I break down all the messy moments and behind the scenes antics of Bravo's popular franchise. On Everything Iconic, I also interview celebrity guests like Kelly Ripa, Keke Palmer, Drew Barrymore, Cameron Diaz and more about their guilty pleasures, their past work, and so much more. So if you're pop culture obsessed and find yourself watching way too much reality TV like me, tune in to Everything Iconic with Danny Pellegrino. Wherever you listen to podcasts, ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com
- [02:10]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
hello. This is a call from Junior, an incarcerated individual at Airway Heights Correction Center. This call is not private. It will be recorded and may be monitored.
- [02:28]
Jack Lawrence
My name's Jack Lawrence. I'm a former radio presenter who spent 15 years on the Australian radio before I gave up that career to tell people stories. I launched this show what I survived just four months ago, but in reality, I've been telling human survival stories for almost four years. You See, what I initially gave up my career for was to tell the stories of men and women incarcerated across the United States. Men and women serving incredible sentences.
- [03:01]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
I'm serving 174 years plus six life sentences for the crime of attempted murder.
- [03:08]
Jack Lawrence
It's one hell of a sentence mate for a range of different crimes.
- [03:12]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
I was convicted of first degree murder and was originally sent to death row. I have been locked up since 1986.
- [03:24]
Jack Lawrence
And today I want to introduce you to one of those people. A man who, at the age of just 15, would be arrested for a murder, a shooting that happened in his hometown of Spokane, Washington. It was a crime that he had always maintained he was innocent of. But almost 27 years after the crime, he was still fighting to prove his innocence.
- [03:49]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
And I'm like, oh, shoot, you know, I mean, nah, look, I don't have nothing to do with it. I don't know what you guys are talking about. And by then, I'm in tears. And he looks at me and he goes, I'm telling him over and over, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. You know me my entire life, I didn't do it. I'm telling you. He just didn't. Didn't even care. He looked at me and he goes, you didn't think we're ever gonna catch you, huh?
- [04:08]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
I'm looking at the moon in the sky this shouldn't come as a surprise But I can't sleep War in my mind I'm trying to fight a war in my mind I don't know who's the winner tonight but it ain't me where are you now when my fears are worse than ever when the night goes on forever When I'm losing track of time
- [04:43]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
where are you now?
- [04:46]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
Need you.
- [05:01]
Jack Lawrence
So In September of 2022, I packed up my desk at my job, handed back my building pass, and drove out of the car park for the very last time.
- [05:09]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Well, that is it. And driving out of my workplace. 14 years on the radio and we're done. No job, only a podcast that only just launched the other day. Zero income, just a little podcast and a hope and dream. God, I hope it works.
- [05:36]
Jack Lawrence
I was leaving behind a career of 15 years. I had a wife, two children, and a mortgage. This was really the only job I'd ever known, and one that had seen me travel the country, working at many radio stations in different cities over the years. It gave me the opportunity to do some fun things, interview people like Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran, comedians and actors like Kevin Hart Kristen Wiig it was ultimately a fun job, and I was terrified about walking away from it. But I knew that what I was about to do had the potential to change my life. And it's fair to say it most certainly did. After telling the stories of over 53 men and women and almost 10 million downloads, I'm even more passionate about the show than I was when it first started. Over these years, I've spoken with many people with incredible stories, shocking stories.
- [06:39]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
My father was in Marion county jail, and when he was in county jail, unbeknownst to us, he was trying to plot to have me, my mother and my grandmother killed so that we wouldn't testify against him regarding the abuse.
- [06:52]
Jack Lawrence
Sad stories. How old were your sons when you were arrested?
- [06:56]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
They were five and a half and eight and a half. Yeah, they were in kindergarten, second grade. Yeah.
- [07:02]
Jack Lawrence
I imagine they don't really remember much.
- [07:04]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Yeah, I doubt if they do.
- [07:06]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
I haven't had any contact with them since I was arrested.
- [07:09]
Jack Lawrence
So you literally have not spoken to your children since one was five and the other was eight years old?
- [07:15]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
Correct. It's been almost 14 years.
- [07:18]
Jack Lawrence
And stories of incredible injustice, none more so than a man named Evaristo Salas Jr. Out of all the stories I have told, it is still the one that I get the most messages about. And so as I work on the next season of what I survived, I thought I would bring you a different kind of survival story. One of a child surviving a man's world and a man surviving almost three decades behind bars for a wrongful imprisonment. If you're someone who's not into true crime as a genre, all I would say is just listen to this story because I'm willing to bet it's unlike any true crime you've ever heard. My name's Jack Lawrence. Welcome to one minute remaining.
- [08:33]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
This is a call from Junior, an incarcerated individual at Airway Heights Correction Center. This call is not private. It will be recorded and may be monitored.
- [08:49]
Jack Lawrence
Hello and welcome back to one minute remaining. My name is Jack Lawrence, the host and creator of this show. If this is your first time listening, welcome and thank you for stopping by to check us out. Today is the start of a brand new case. However, we already have over 30 episodes for you to binge. Right now. Today is part one of my chat with Evaristo Salas, or Junior as he's known, a man who was incarcerated as a child.
- [09:22]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Well, my name is Elristo Salas Jr. I was wrongly convicted of first degree, I premeditated murder when I was 15 years old. And I was sentenced to 32 years, nine months.
- [09:33]
Jack Lawrence
How long have you currently been incarcerated for?
- [09:35]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
I've been incarcerated for 26 years and six months.
- [09:41]
Jack Lawrence
And that would make you how old, sir?
- [09:44]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Going to be 42 on the 17th of December. So in about a week, a week and a half, I'll be 42.
- [09:55]
Jack Lawrence
The story of Evaristo Salas has been covered in multiple TV shows, but not your normal shows about evil killers and murderers, shows where victims and detectives are interviewed about the vicious crimes committed by the individual. No, Junior's case has been covered by a number of crime shows dedicated to investigating wrongful convictions. In fact, during these shows, information was uncovered that not only was evidence withheld at trial, but also that a supposed key witness was paid to lie. Yet with all of this information, Junior still sits in prison over 26 years later. We'll, of course, get to all of that very soon. But before we do, it's important, as always, to start from the very beginning. The story of Evaristo Salis is set in the small town of Sunnyside in Yakima County, Washington. It's around 180 miles west of Seattle, with a population of just over 16,000. It's a very agricultural farming community. Historically, it was white farmers and agriculture until they began to bring in Hispanic workers due to the cheap labour. With a large wave of these workers coming in just after World War II, the population of Sunnyside is now 80% Hispanic. Junior would grow up like most people I speak with who are incarcerated, in a very dysfunctional family situation. Here he is talking about his early years in Sunnyside living with his mother.
- [11:49]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Well, I grew up in a small farming town of Sunnyside, Washington, United States, you know, and growing up there was actually, as a kid, I have a lot of good memories of, you know, being in the community, riding my bikes, you know, having a lot of friends. Well, not a lot of friends, but having the ones in the neighborhood and everything and outside of the house was nice, you know, being out there enjoying, you know, the summer heat, you know, because it gets really hot in the summertime and we have all three seasons there in sunny sun. And so we, you know, we rode our bikes around town, those kind of things, but it was pretty chaotic. My family was pretty chaotic because my mother was. And my father, they split up when I was about six or seven years old. And this was my stepfather. So I never actually knew my biological father, even though he lived in the same town. I never actually knew who he was. I carry his name, but that's pretty much all that I carry over me and even the way I look and everything. But I didn't know him personally. I seen him a couple times. It was a strange kind of atmosphere to grow up in because the father that I knew, my stepfather, who is all I've ever known, I call him my father, he raised me. And I only have small memories of him and my mother actually together because they split up when I was so young. But I remember I have a lot of. Growing up with my mother was pretty chaotic. She was very poor. And she was strange in a sense, because there was one side of her that was very religious. She taught us how to pray. We went to church a lot when we were kids. But then there was another side of her that. Where she was addicted to every vice there was, you know, and it was hard to see the two, you know, because, you know, on the weekends we went to church. And then there was other times where she would throw parties at the house and bring all these people, strangers in the house and do drugs and get. And drink and, you know, and just have these kind of these moments where she was just, you know, so wasted that she didn't even kind of resemble her mother anymore. And so she brought a lot of strange people into her house and that kind of stuff. So it was really chaotic. You know, we were always hungry. I was always hungry. We didn't really have any clothes to wear. The water was always shut off. I remember us going to food banks. I remember us going to churches and asking for money, those kind of things. And it's not that she didn't have these things with the government, didn't provide it for. Because they had a welfare programs and did provide the money for her. It says that she took that money and spent it on drugs, on her bad habits, you know, drugs and drinking, those kind of things. And so it was very chaotic, you know. And my mother had a tendency to have boyfriends that were. That were the worst kind. Not only were they addicted to drugs just like her, but they were abusive to her. They were abusive to me, sometimes to my sisters. But they seem mainly to focus on me. I don't know if I was the boy, you know, and my two sisters were there. My little brother was born a little bit later, but he was still a baby. So that there seemed to be almost. You know, I took the brunt of everything when it came to that. And I had really vivid memories of my mother, you know, of being with these abusive people. You know, there was times that I tried to protect her. But I was too young. I was just. I was just a child. And they would toss me aside, and she would. What bothered me the most about her, you know, is that she would always take them back, you know, I mean, they would leave her. I have one real vivid memory of being alone in the house. Me and my sisters were alone for, you know, two or three days. I don't. We couldn't. Nobody knew or where our mother was. We didn't say anything. And then she just. I think my dad came over and we couldn't find her. And two days later, she shows up and she's beaten so bad. I mean, her. I couldn't even recognize her. And I just seen her, and I just kind of broke down. And apparently one of her boyfriends had beat her so bad that he thought he had killed her and threw her out on one of the farms out there in the middle of nowhere on the outskirts of Sunnyside. And she's kind of crawled away and kind of found her way back to the house, you know, and it took her a day or two. I don't remember how long it took, but it took her that long to actually get back to the house that we lived in.
- [15:47]
Jack Lawrence
Yeah.
- [15:47]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
And she had dirt all over her, you know, and that kind of stuff. And three or four days later, I remember kind of trying to nurse her wound. She wouldn't go to the hospital. She wouldn't call the cops. She was just trying to protect this, you know, her boyfriend and everything. And two or three days later, he comes back, and she just welcomes him, like, as if, you know, everything was good. And for me, after that, I had nothing but hatred towards him. You know, prior to that, you know, I kind of. He was with my mother, and he was kind of really kind of nice or, you know, he kind of treated us a certain way. And then when he started kind of becoming abusive, and that's when I just kind of. I just disliked him, you know?
- [16:35]
Jack Lawrence
So the situation in Junior's home would gradually get worse and more disruptive until he tells me that one day his mother decides she can't handle him anymore and has him sent off to care. We're luckily the man who wasn't his biological father, but the only father he's ever known, comes to his rescue.
- [16:54]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
There was nobody in the house. My sisters weren't there. I don't know where they're at. And I'm walking around the house, and I'm thinking, well, damn, where's everybody at? And my mother kind of just Comes out of the back room. Even though I look for her, I couldn't see her. She comes back out of the back room and she just tells me, you're a bad kid and I don't want you anymore. And I was kind of confused, like what he's saying. And I think, I mean, a certain amount of period of time passed, but it seemed like it was within that, you know, like a short period of time where the cops kind of just showed up at the house and. And they were taking me to foster care. She was basically giving me to the state. And I tried to run and I tried to beg her, but she had kind of this dead look in her eyes and she kind of just glossed over my feelings and I was screaming, what are you doing? You know, all these kind of, you know, things, and they just dragged, pretty much dragged me out of. They tried to cuff me, but my hands were too small, so the cuffs were just falling off.
- [17:46]
Jack Lawrence
How old were you at the time? Go ahead, how old were you at the time?
- [17:52]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
I must have been about. I think I was about seven. Wow. Six or seven. Around that age. And on the cops, I mean, they didn't seem to have any kind of sympathy. They were just like there to remove me and I didn't know where I was going. They didn't just tell me, you're going to foster care. You know, I figured that out later on in life, you know, but so they took me to the police station. I wouldn't say anything. And somehow my dad, who lived in the same town, my stepfather, who was my father, you know, heard about it, found out about it and they end up taking me to my father's house, you know, he lived, you know, on the other side of town. And, you know, and I'm kind of unconsolable. I'm crying and my dad comes into. I remember him coming to the back of the cop car and he takes one look at me and he sees me and he just starts, almost starts to cry, but he tries to hold it in and he tries to grab me and he says that, you know, it's going to be all right, you know, and, you know, don't, don't worry about it. I can't. I can't really speak. I'm just saying, my mom, my mom. And he tells me, he's like, you know, your mom's in a bad place, you know, and it's kind of. His voice is breaking up at the time. And he's trying basically to explain to a 7 year old kid you know that, you know that your mother still loves you, you know, but you know, this is what's going to happen. But he took me in, you know, so I didn't have to go to foster care and I lived with my dad all the way up until the time that I was wrongfully convicted.
- [19:10]
Jack Lawrence
Junior tells me life with his father was more stable. He didn't drink and he certainly did not do drugs. He was a hard working man who did his best to teach Junior right from wrong and to teach him to always work hard for his money. However, Junior tells me this hard work meant lots of time spent alone, but
- [19:29]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
he did his best, you know, and I spent probably about a year with my dad by my. It was just us and he had a four bedroom house, it's just us two. And he had to work, you know, 12 hours, sometimes 16 hour days. So I spent a lot of time alone there at the house. And then a year later my older sister came to live with us because she couldn't deal with my mother no more either. My mother was abusing her, everything. So he took her in too. So me and my older sister, her name's Debbie, but she's two years older than me. Us two are not, we're not, our biological dad is, her father is not my stepfather. So he took her in and took me in and then, you know, raised us both. And then my younger sister, which who is biologically his, came a year later. So the only one that my mother stayed with was my younger brother. And so he raised us, three of us, pretty much by himself,
- [20:23]
Jack Lawrence
His Junior's older sister on her adopted father. And how Junior's life was severely affected by the way he had been treated by his mother.
- [20:32]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
My dad was just a very good provider, but loving and showing love. He wasn't very good at that. That's just not what he wasn't good at. Yeah, and my mom wasn't either. So we had to learn to love each other and get that from each other because that's all we had. And so growing up like that, and then, you know, my mom would pick us up when she felt like it, you know, would take us with her. And I mean she lived from hotel to hotel and you know, she just like, okay, I'll have you one day. And then I don't want you guys, dump you off to your dad, you know. And so it was like back and forth for a long time. So, you know, my mom doing that really messed with my, my brother's mind a lot. And he's the one, I think that took it the most, you know, the hardest, because he felt rejected. And so all he ever wanted was for her to love him and, you know, show him that she cared about him. And that wasn't the case. So it was just. It was a lot for us as a young kid.
- [21:42]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
They pretty much raised us and it was stable. I mean, we were poor, but we never felt like we were poor. We were never hungry. There's always food in the refrigerator. And, you know, our Christmases were. He tried to do as best he could with them, you know, and dealing with my mother and all that kind of stuff. The hard part about it is that, you know, he had to work 12 to 16 hours a day. So that left a lot of idle time on my part. Yeah, that. And I was already, like I said, the emotional trauma of, you know, being told this by my mother and the chaos that I dealt with with her basically kind of, you know, sent me and had my mind in a certain way, you know, where I was. Feel like there was something missing in my life. So I was searching, you know, and that's when, you know, all the gang stuff kind of came in. You know, it came later when I was about 11 or 12, when the gangs kind of started hitting, you know, this small town of Sunnyside. Hispanic gang.
- [22:42]
Jack Lawrence
Sunnyside may be a small, rural farming community, but it wouldn't be long before the gangs would start moving into town. Gangs like the east side Ravad and Nortenos would begin to gain a foothold.
- [22:53]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Prior to that, the town was kind of, you know, you could. We all got along. We all went to school together. We all knew each other. But when the gangs came in, like, it was like maybe 87 or 88 or 89. Around that time, everything. You can see the splits already happening, and the gang violence started kind of taking hold of the community and that kind of stuff. And we kind of just followed. All the kids of that era started just falling into these different gangs, and it kind of just split and fragmented the community. Before I knew it had. You know, because I hung out with these guys, I had these other guys that were already. And who I knew and went to school with became my enemies almost overnight.
- [23:31]
Jack Lawrence
When you say that the gangs arrived, like, so what happens there? So there's no gangs in town. And then did certain people move into that town who were gang members and then they started basically creating their own smaller gangs, as it were, or.
- [23:45]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Yeah, that's kind of. That's kind of exactly what happened. There was, like an influx of individuals that came from, you know, southern and northern California. They were escaping the gang violence in the communities over there. And they're bringing it with. Bringing it down to. They end up being. Bringing it down to these small communities in Washington state. And what they did is when they got there is they started just recruiting everybody that would come along into these new gangs, that all these gangs are from California, but they just started recruiting anybody that would come along. And then within maybe a couple years, you know, every. It was fragmented, and it was already starting to take root. And these are. Like I said, I grew up with almost all the individuals in that town. We all knew each other, went to school together, and within maybe a couple months or a year, we were all fragmented, and we're fighting for things that we didn't even know. And that was the. And it happened really fast. It may have took longer, but in my youthful mind, it seems like it happened pretty fast, you know, and. And that's when you started seeing kind of. The violence kind of grew from that. Prior to that, there was gangs in sunnyside, but it wasn't. They weren't like serious gangs. They were like homegrown ones that they would fight here and there over schools and that kind of stuff, you know, but you didn't see the colors. You didn't see the gang attire, the way they dress and all that stuff. You didn't see that kind of stuff until probably the late 80s or mid-80s. That's when you started seeing the change. And then in the early 90s is when it really started kind of gripping the community, and the violence kind of grew into where people were actually getting shot, killed, and those kind of things.
- [25:14]
Jack Lawrence
So we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, Junior tells me how the violence from the gangs would become increasingly worse, to the point he would have to plan every trip out of his home just to avoid being attacked.
- [25:27]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
It was an everyday thing. I literally could not walk anywhere in any direction. I was either going to get jumped, I was going to get shot. And so what I would do, I would have to come up with a strategy on how to get from point A to point b. Foreign.
- [25:48]
Knox
Hey, this is Knox from the popcast. The youth mental health crisis is growing, and social media is a major driver. Kids are spending up to nine hours a day on screens, often unsupervised, and studies show a direct link to anxiety, depression, and even suicidal thoughts. That's where gab comes in. Gab offers safer phones and watches for kids with no social media. Tailored to every age, offering the right tech at the right time or or tech in steps. From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for teens, each device allows kids to more safely grow their independence. Visit gab.com getgab and use code getgab for an exclusive offer. That's gab g-a b b.com getgab gab tech and Steps Independence for them Peace of Mind for parents there's never been
- [26:35]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
a better time to get outside and experience the benefits of nature, discover nearby trails and explore the outdoors with alltrails. Download the free app today and find your outside.
- [26:52]
Jack Lawrence
So as always, a huge thank you to each and every one of you for supporting this show each and every week by not only listening but getting involved as well. Our Facebook community now has grown to over two and a half thousand people who are in there every single day discussing the cases we talk about and having healthy debates about all the evidence that we have in each one of these cases. So thank you so much indeed for everyone who gets involved. Of course. A massive shout out to our Patreon members. We've had so many new members join in the last few weeks, so shout out to Tim Wilson, Kirsty Swithenbank, Tom Field, Brian McKay, Isaac Sumpton, Ellie Patterson, Brian Madigan. We've got Trent Harvey, Charlotte Kat Colley, Melissa Clayton, Taylor Maskew. So many people. I can't list everybody, but thank you so much indeed for your support every single month. If you would like to become a part of the OMR family, just click the link in the description below. The ever growing presence of gangs in Sunnyside would be so bad that in 1992 a show called Street Stories would highlight just how bad the problem had become in the area. In fact, believe it or not, in this actual show we see a very young Evaristo Salis poking his head into a police car as they ask the kids about gangs. Almost the majority of our timers dealt with juveniles.
- [28:21]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Here they are. Hey, how you doing guy? You been staying out of trouble there?
- [28:25]
Jack Lawrence
Good.
- [28:26]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Now which one?
- [28:26]
Jack Lawrence
You guys been drinking?
- [28:28]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
I smell liquor. What do you guys think of gangs? They're awesome man. They're awesome. John, what do you think of when you hear answers like this?
- [28:39]
Jack Lawrence
Think about my kids.
- [28:42]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Why do you think the gang problem has been on the rise in this community? Where are these guys coming from? We have a real big migrant population here.
- [28:51]
Jack Lawrence
We also have we have a lot
- [28:54]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
of folks coming up from California and
- [28:56]
Jack Lawrence
Texas and they're bringing a lot of non And a lot of that activity with them, it's scary. It's real scary.
- [29:05]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
What frightens many people in Sunnyside is the age of some of these gang members. 9, 10, 11 years old. These kids idolize gangsters in the big cities. And they've brought a crime wave to this small farming town. It was like a subtle kind of recruitment. You know, there were some individuals that went around, you know, that got there and they were, oh, this guy's my friend. I put them on. Or this kind of stuff. But then once they were kind of established, you just hung around with an Avengers and then you became labeled that.
- [29:30]
Jack Lawrence
Yeah.
- [29:31]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
And then you were like, okay, well then that's what I'm a part of, because these guys are attacking me now, so I might as well. And so it was a little bit mixture of those two things, right? And I got kind of a. It was strange because what happened was that my. My. My dad, you know, he ended up. He got with some. With some woman and they were together for a number of years. Well, her kids were a part of kind of that gang. And I had known them since we were kids and everything. So, you know, I just started hanging around with them and that's how kind of it started, you know, And I just started. I started hanging around with them. And then other individuals started disliking me and say, well, you're this, you're that. And then eventually I just became a part of it. And then that. That's kind of. It's. It's a subtle, it's a weird, because when you're that young. I was. I think I was 12 at the time, or 11. You don't really understand, you know, the magnitude of the decision you're actually making, you know.
- [30:20]
Jack Lawrence
Yeah, of course.
- [30:21]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
And you know, you just kind of just, oh, these are my friends, you know, and I'm, you know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna, you know, protect them. They're gonna protect me. We anyways, we're getting jumped by these guys over here. We need protection. This seems like in your youthful mind is a logical step, you know, you know, for protection. It's only later that you kind of realize, you know, what is, you know, the course that's going to take you on. But that's kind of how it was. Kind of just a subtle approach. And then. And then, you know, I end up getting. Being a part of the gang. And it was a small gang. It was never more than maybe 30 people at a time, you know, and so it was very small. And we Kind of just protected each other and that kind of stuff, you know. But at the same time it's strange because when you're that young, you're not really, it's not really you're going out there and committing crimes or you're doing this, you're doing that. Literally you're just hanging out, doing stupid things, you know, and being a delinquent, you know. Yeah. And so it was, we wore certain colors, you know, we were just the gang attire and all that kind of stuff, you know. But we didn't really actually know, know what these things meant, you know. And that's the bad part about it because it's not like they sit there and explain that to you. They, you need to be have a certain amount of ignorance in order to continue this kind of lifestyle, you know. And so we just kind of loosely were just, you know, this is my friend, we hang out together. So this and that, we don't like these guys. We didn't even know why we didn't like them or they were this color, they're that. And so at that point, it wasn't that we hated each other yet because we could still see people talk to him. The hatred would come later because, you know, then that's when the shooting started, the killings and those kind of stuff. And then you start like, oh, this guy did this person to my, this person. I knew that person. That's when it starts to kind of solidify in the community and then the violence starts to go up, you know. And for me it was like being home alone all the time and that kind of stuff. You know, I looked at it and well, these are my brothers, you know, these are family, they're my friends. And that kind of stuff, which is you just kind of latch on to whatever comes along.
- [32:11]
Jack Lawrence
And again from the same show back in 1992, they speak with kids about the pressures of joining gangs at that time. Have any of you been approached by
- [32:21]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
somebody in the gang that says, hey, join us.
- [32:24]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
They just say that like you're chicken and they're gonna go beat you up or something because you didn't join their gang.
- [32:29]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Why do kids join gangs at this school?
- [32:32]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
Because they think that's their family right now.
- [32:36]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
If they don't have both parents together, then that's what the gang tries to show them, is the love and affection that they don't have in their house. 13 year old Danny Lopez is a schoolmate of Juan Artiega and a prime target for gang recruitment. Are you lonely?
- [32:52]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
Yeah, sometimes I just. There's anger inside me.
- [32:57]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
It's hard. What do they say? What do they say to you when you say, I don't want to join?
- [33:01]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
They just like, you join and we'll be your family and all this stuff. We'll be your best friends. You got problems, we'll solve them for you.
- [33:17]
Jack Lawrence
Was there drugs involved with the gangs? Were they selling drugs or dealing drugs?
- [33:21]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
I remember there was drug use, but it was mainly like, you know, marijuana and drinking here and there. If you can get someone to buy, you know, it wasn't really kind of established as that nobody was really making money. We all were kind of probably poor. You know, even the clothes that we wear were kind of pretty. They weren't up to par with the, you know, kind of style that you would want, you know, that kind of stuff. Now when you look back at things, you know, those are the seeds of what grew into what is now. It's different now, but back then you would come across certain individuals that they, you know, they had money, that kind of stuff, and were selling drugs, but they weren't close to us and they weren't giving us anything. So if you were like, let's say you were going to, like, California. Those gangs have been established for decades, you know, and so they have kind of a hierarchy of how things are to be. But since it was so new in our community, there was none of that there. And to a certain extent, it was not only a free fall, but there was. There was nothing really established there at that time.
- [34:11]
Jack Lawrence
So there was no sort of older people that were using you guys to sell it so that they didn't get in trouble.
- [34:17]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
I think that came probably years after I was already in prison. Yeah, but those. Those things were so new that everybody was almost like a. We're all around the same age, you know, there was no really hierarchy or structure. You know, we, you know, we argue with each other more than anything, too, you know, so it was almost like. Just like you would look at them as just a bunch of kids getting together, doing stupid things and fighting each other for no reason. Because at that time, they were just like, we would actually fight. And then the guns and all that came later. When I started, you know, towards the. About when I turned 14 and 15, that's when things got really serious. And I started getting shot at and chased and then jumped and almost stabbed almost every day. That's when it became, you know, that's when it started solidifying, becoming real violent.
- [34:54]
Jack Lawrence
So Junior tells me that over time, the violence began to get more and more severe kids would graduate from getting in fights and throwing rocks at cars to beginning to arm themselves with weapons like knives and guns. So when was the first time that you saw a gun, like someone had. Was it someone in your group or was it, you know, someone in another gang? When was the first time you saw someone like carrying. Carrying a gun for, shall we say, protection?
- [35:21]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
I seen. Well, I seen. The first time I actually seen was when one was being pointed at me when I was. I think I was. I think I was 13. We were crossing a bridge, you know, and this small little bridge is over a canal. And these guys pulled up and they were from a rival gang and they pointed it at us. I kind of jumped out of the way. The other guy's like, oh, it's fake or something, threw a rock at the car or something like that. They ended up shooting at us or anything, but they pointed at us. And then a couple other times, you know, a few years, you know, maybe a year later, a couple months later, someone drove by, shot a couple times in the air, things like that. And then you would see maybe one or two persons, you know, they would have like, you know, a rifle or something or maybe a.22 here and there. And they were those small little guns or whatever. They would come. It was slowly that, that kind of slowly was starting to filter into our gang too, you know, and. And. Cause things started getting more violent, you know. And back then there was still like, there was only like two streets in my neighborhood and sometimes a real small town, but if I left those two streets, I was gonna get jumped or get in a fight. And. And I remember one of the schools I went to was in a kind of a rival neighborhood of one of the gangs. And I literally would get chased over there. And then they would wait for me after school and try to jump me and sometimes, you know, chase me down or that kind of stuff, you know. So it, it was, it was still, you know, that kind of stuff, you know. And then later towards when I, you know, towards, I would say 94, 95 and 96 is when. That's when they started kind of shooting at us. And then it became really serious, you know, these guys are actually trying to kill us, you know. And then it became, then you had that kind of fear that you kind of really didn't have before. And I started worrying about, you know, them doing drive bys in my house or, you know, my sisters live there and that kind of stuff, my dad and, you know, and so that the fear of death Became. Started becoming real about the age of 13 or 14. And then you would see individuals here and there. You know, part of my gun that had a gun here or had a gun there. But it was never like, you know, it was never like, well, these guys have it, or you guys have it like that. You know what I mean? So it was just so new, I think, to the area. It's probably a lot different now, but
- [37:22]
Jack Lawrence
back then, it was, you know, all these things that you're saying about how, you know, you get chased and jumped. And when I was a kid, there was a gang, and for somehow, some reason, some rumor got around that I'd said something about them. Anyway, it was ridiculous, stupid kid stuff. But I remember one night when I was at home, my parents were away, and I had some friends over, and they turned up at my house and tapped on my window with a knife, and they were trying to break into the house. And I have never been more scared in my entire life than that particular night. And that was just one night, and it never happened again. And I heard that if they broke in, they were going to apparently chuck me in the boot of the car or something, beat me up and all the rest of it. But I was. I've never been more terrified in my life. And that was one night. And you essentially went through that every single day of your life.
- [38:12]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
Yeah, and it wasn't. It wasn't just me. It was like everybody a part. And it was everybody that was part of the community. And it was. The worst part about it is, in a sense, we were kind of doing it to ourselves. You know, I mean, we were. We were fighting for unknown reasons. We were. You know, I mean. And then it just perpetuated something violent. Then it was. It was an everyday thing. I literally could not walk anywhere in any direction. I was either gonna get jumped, I was gonna get shot. And so what I would do, I would have to come up with a strategy on how to get from point A to point B. And I'll say, okay, well, I know this person lives here, so I'm gonna cut this way, and I'm gonna cut through this yard and go that way. And it was a constant. Like, you know, and if sometimes you feel a little more secure, if you have three of your buddies with you or your supposed gang members with you, you feel a little more secure. But someone can just drive up and start shooting at you, or they come up with more people, and then you're fighting. I mean, I went down not even two blocks from my house. And went to a store, which we know we shouldn't go to because that area is kind of. I wouldn't say controlled, but I'd say there's a bunch of other gang members that live there, Rival gang members. We came out of the store with our pop, and they were waiting for us, five of them. And one of them all tried to stab me and literally almost stabbed me. And if it wasn't for one of my friends throwing a pop in his face, you know, that he prevented him from actually stabbing, and that. That was an everyday thing, and it almost became a norm. And it's like we lived with this almost this fear inside of us every single day that we had to fight or we had to run. You know, there was one time I came out of a. And this is not even a block down from my house. I came out of this store, this Mexican store, and had a bunch of, you know, donuts I was buying, and there was 20 rival gamers right there that just called my name. I looked, and the only thing I could do was. I mean, I must have been, like, what, 14, I think I just ran. But if they would have caught me, you know, they could have beat me to this. There was times where, you know, I'd get caught, where they would say, you know, you got caught slipping or whatever, myself. And it would be, you know, 10 to 15 guys, you know, that their rivals, for whatever reason, they would let me pass and not do none, or they couldn't, or I would just, you know. But most of the time, it was either. If they commented, I would have to either run, you know, because if not, I was gonna get a beating, you know, and there was one time I was right outside my house that there's a. There used to be a field right there. And I'm laying there, and there's two and, like, two other mother buddies from the same gang and everything. I'm sitting there, and I look up, and I see these two guys running at us. And before I could even stand up, this one big guy just kicked me in the face. And then another guy started fighting with one of my other friends. And then he literally. I was already pretty much with that hit. I was pretty much out of it and literally just stomped me out for about, you know, five, almost five minutes. And I didn't even know who this person was. I just assumed he was a rival gang member. And then some of my other friends came running, and they chased him off, But I was already a bloody mess by that time, you know, and he. I Mean, he just came out of nowhere, Just literally ran out the side of, you know, the far field. And I didn't even have a chance to get up. And it was things like that that happened constantly. And I was so, you know, that was. I couldn't. I could fight, but, I mean, I tried to fight, but it was. That was no match for almost most of these guys. So I was getting. I was literally getting beat up almost all the time.
- [41:21]
Jack Lawrence
So, of course, with increasing gang activity, it wouldn't be long before Junior would come onto the radar of local law enforcement. He says that he undoubtedly brought it all on himself because of what he was getting into. But he says that the police would eventually be knocking on his door anytime something happened in the area.
- [41:40]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
And then, you know, this started the, you know, the process of, you know, the cops always come to my house, you know, that kind of stuff. And anything that happened within my neighborhood, if there was a broken window, if down the street somebody did something at the store, 711 that I live by, they would literally just come to my house and pick me up. And don't get me wrong, I did a lot of stupid things as a kid. I used to tag up, I used to break windows because I was bored. We'd get fights with other gang members, those kind of things. And I mean, so I. I stole stereos, those kind of things. I stole from the store at times. So I'm not trying to say, oh, I never did anything wrong. You know, maybe I, by me acting the way I was, that I brought so much, you know. You know, maybe people were calling about things that were missing, that kind of stuff, that it brought so much heat to the community that these cops had to act that way. But they took it kind of further than that. You know, they. They not only harassed us, but I think that they treated us with a. Not only a sense of indifference, but they looked at it as if we're going to grow into. Be something terrible. So they got to get rid of us in one form or another. And whatever way they have to do that, they're going to do that. And so they would come to my house and pick me up for this and that. Say, you did this and did that. My dad, he was like, there was times they would come to the house. One time they came to the house and they're like, you're under arrest. I was sitting in the back watching tv, and I said, for one, they won't even tell me. They just covered me up, threw me in the back of the coffee. I think I was 14 at the time. Already took me to the 711 down the block. Shined the light in the back and the lady looks at me because a store clerk. I go to 7 11. I used to go to 711 two or three times a day. Looked at me, he goes, that's not the guy. You know what I mean? That kid lives down the street. I know who that is. And then they took me back to my house and let me go. And then my dad looks at me, goes, what are you doing? I said, what do you mean what am I doing? He goes, well, if they're coming to the house all the time, obviously you must be doing something. I said, dad, look, I don't even know why they came. They took me this. And so for the first. I would say for the first couple times that they actually came to get me, my dad was convinced that I was doing stuff, you know. Yeah. And I was to a certain extent, but not the stuff that they were coming. And they were coming for every single little thing. And then he finally realized that he can't possibly be doing all these things because it was literally constant. And it became. That became almost a routine too. There was another time that they came and just in the morning, I think it was eight in the morning, nine in the morning, they had caught my little brother. My little brother was maybe five or six. They were writing on the wall at the 711 or something, their names on the wall. That cop took it upon himself. It was another cop, not Revar, but another one. He came to the house, said that I was over there spray painting or something like that. I had literally just woke up and my. That he had. My little brother said that I did it. My brother was five years old and I was six years old. And I'm like, where's my little brother at? And I stepped out of the house and then he just arrested me and then threw me in the back of the cop car. Took me to another, like right across the street on the other block where my brother was. He's there crying, seeing me in the cop car. And then so I start. I get pissed off and I start kicking the door, you know, which was stupid to do. So he comes back, grabs me face, plants me and tries to hog tie me. Throws me in the back of the cop car, takes me to the police station, handcuffs me to one of the top, takes me to the cell in the back, handcuffs me to the top of the rail, puts a seat under me and says, I'll come back and see when you're tired. I literally that stood there for almost nine hours and then he just released me. And it was that kind of, you know, harassment that I was getting constantly.
- [44:58]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
You have 1 minute remaining.
- [45:02]
Jack Lawrence
And that wraps us up for this episode. Coming up next time. It's November 14, 1995, 6:20pm, a cold night on Sol Road, Sunnyside, Washington. Jose Aurelio is sitting in his vehicle when all of a sudden, two shots ring out and he's killed instantly.
- [45:25]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
They just looked at me and said, well, we're gonna charge you. And that's. That was the beginning of the nightmare right there.
- [45:31]
Jack Lawrence
Next time on One minute remaining. And a special thank you this week to producer Diverse for hooking us up with some of their music for today's episode. You can check them out on YouTube and Instagram. All the details in the show notes for this episode. One minute remaining is a mash pumpkin production, produced, hosted and created by Jack Lawrence. Editing and sound design by Jack Lawrence and Dom Ev. This show is part of the Acast Creator network.
- [46:09]
Knox
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Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
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Jack Lawrence
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Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
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Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
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Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
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- [47:39]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
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Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
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Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
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Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
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- [48:12]
Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior)
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Evaristo Salas Jr. (Junior) / Various Podcast Hosts
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