Getting Jnr Home - P4

Summary

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What I Survived – “Getting Jnr Home – P4” (June 9, 2026)

Host: Jack Laurence
Guest: Evaristo Salas Jr., Evaristo’s family and legal team, former Detroit Police Officer Ira Todd
Main Theme:
Exploring the flawed investigation and conviction of Evaristo Salas Jr., arrested at 15 and serving a 30-year sentence for a murder he claims he did not commit. This episode delves into questionable witness testimony, alibi evidence, and the experience of being failed by the justice system.

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Overview

In Part 4 of the “Getting Jnr Home” series, Jack Laurence continues investigating the case of Evaristo Salas Jr., who has spent most of his life in prison for a murder he and his supporters maintain he did not commit. This episode focuses on the legal representation Evaristo received, the strength of his alibi, the reliability of key prosecution witnesses (especially the informant/snitch), and revelations uncovered by the TV show “Wrong Man.” The discussion highlights issues around police misconduct, unreliable witnesses, and the enduring struggle for justice.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Language Barriers & Defense Representation

• Evaristo first had a public defender, then his father spent his entire life savings on a private lawyer.
  • “I got a public defender first and then my dad got… another lawyer… everything he had… kind of threw at this lawyer.” – Evaristo (03:53)
• The lawyer, though Hispanic, offered little real defense. Both Evaristo, a 15-year-old, and his father, an immigrant from Mexico, struggled to understand legal proceedings.
  • “He was… horrible in a sense… never really spoke to me.” – Evaristo (03:53)
  • “For a 15 year old and also your dad who’s originally from Mexico, it must have just been impossible.” – Jack (05:08)
• Evaristo now only partially understands legal jargon after years self-studying in law libraries.

2. Alibi Evidence & Timeline Experiment

• Evaristo and friends were at a local 7-Eleven at the time of the shooting. The store clerk, Sylvia, remembered serving him and noticed nothing unusual.
  • “She remembers my brother going into the store with another friend... she had got a phone call from her mom [about the shooting].” – Evaristo’s sister (08:39)
• The distance between crime scene and 7-Eleven was about 1.5 miles (2.5 kilometers) — not feasible in the tight timeline according to Jack’s own running experiment.
  • “I ran 2.5 kilometers as quickly as I could just to see… And I was absolutely wrecked… There's no way you can look normal.” – Jack (12:11)
  • “She said he was there and there was no way he could have moved from there to there and be like, ‘oh, yeah, hey, what's up?’” – Evaristo’s sister (09:54)
• The store clerk’s testimony, however, was undermined by her reputation.
  • “She was made to feel her opinion didn’t matter because of her past.” – Jack (10:31)

3. The Prosecution’s Case and “Star Witness”

• No physical evidence tied Evaristo to the crime: no forensics, DNA, or murder weapon.
• The prosecution’s case relied on two witnesses:
  • Detective's informant (“snitch”), who claimed Evaristo confessed.
  • Victim’s partner, Ophelia Gonzalez (to be covered in the next episode).
• The informant’s in-court performance was disastrous:
  • He claimed to have “CRS disease”: “I told them I can’t remember shit.” – Informant’s court statement (19:36)
  • Witness appeared “almost just making it up as he went,” clearly uncomfortable and unreliable. – Evaristo’s family (21:17)
  • It later emerged, via “Wrong Man,” that the informant’s entire statement was falsified.

4. Police Coercion & Snitch Testimony (Revelations from “Wrong Man”)

• Investigator Ira Todd, himself once wrongfully accused, polygraphed the informant and found his new account credible.
• The informant claimed:
  • Detective Rivard singled out Evaristo (“See that piece of shit right there? I'm gonna get him.”) and coached the informant to try and extract a confession, promising drugs as payment.
  • When no confession was forthcoming, Rivard wrote the statement and had the informant copy it “in his own words,” assuring him it wouldn’t go to trial.
  • When Evaristo refused a plea, the informant had to testify and purposely sabotaged his own testimony.
  • The informant was eventually compensated for his testimony.
• Evaristo recounts finding out about the informant’s recantation:
  • “When they interviewed him, I didn’t hear about that ‘til maybe two or three months later… when they actually told me… I cried because I knew he was lying but I just didn’t understand why.” – Evaristo (29:21)
• Despite these revelations, authorities dismissed the informant’s recantation.
• Detective Rivard continues to deny any misconduct.
• Summary from investigator Ira Todd:
  • “…Even with the snitch saying he lied… it was enough to show that this boy was railroaded… They didn’t have enough, so they manufactured… He got overzealous… That boy shouldn’t be in jail.” – Ira Todd (31:07, 32:03)

5. Lingering Questions and Next Steps

• The episode ends questioning why, given the informant’s recantation and lack of evidence, Evaristo remains in prison.
• Attention is turned to the other key prosecution witness, Ophelia Gonzalez, with hints that her testimony and actions post-trial are highly questionable as well.

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Memorable Quotes

• On the informant’s testimony:
  • “I told them I can’t remember shit.” – Prosecution informant, on the witness stand (19:36)
• On the legal system for outsiders:
  • “We don’t have any experience… here we are thrust into this situation, none of it a making of our own… We put all our trust in this lawyer, and the lawyer pretty much took advantage of my family.” – Evaristo (06:06)
• On police manipulation of evidence:
  • “They believe it in their head so much they're guilty that they orchestrate some evidence or they, they manipulate… It's called Mark Furman (O.J. Simpson case) type of policing.” – Ira Todd (24:45)
• On the aftermath of the informant’s recantation:
  • “Finally we got something. And so there was a sense of almost a relief.” – Evaristo (30:41)
• On the whole ordeal:
  • “That boy shouldn’t be in jail. There's too much. Too many things to doubt on that case.” – Ira Todd (32:03)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Legal Defense & Barriers: 03:53 – 06:06
• The Alibi and Store Clerk: 07:09 – 10:31
• Distance/Timeline Experiment: 12:11 – 15:46
• Prosecution & Informant’s Testimony: 18:39 – 22:37
• Wrong Man: Informant Recants, Police Coercion: 23:45 – 31:44
• Case Summary & Next Episode Preview: 32:19 – 33:16

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Closing Thoughts

This episode starkly illustrates the fragility and potential for failure within the justice system, especially when dealing with young, marginalized, or non-native populations. Through first-hand accounts and dogged investigation, Jack Laurence exposes a prosecution case that hinged on manipulated testimony and ignored credible alibi evidence. The episode concludes with the staggering reality that, despite all these revelations, Evaristo Salas Jr. remains incarcerated—raising urgent questions about wrongful convictions and the barriers to rectifying them.

Next episode: The prosecution’s other main witness, Ophelia Gonzalez, and further scrutiny of the case against Evaristo Salas Jr.

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Transcript

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[Ira Todd]

And again, we even polygraphed that guy we polygraphed. It was the officer snitch. And we actually polygraphed him. And, I mean, this guy passed his polygraph.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

My mother kind of just comes out of the back room. Even though I look for her, I can see her. She comes back out of the back room and she just tells me, you're a bad kid and I don't want you anymore. What do you guys think of gangs? They're awesome, man.

[Ira Todd]

They're awesome.

[Brooke Devard]

We think that.

[Evaristo's Sister]

And so he was literally. He got taken when he was 14 and got charged when he was 15.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

The staff there was like, look, what is he doing here? He's a juvenile. Why are you bringing him over here? Oh, he'll be here. Just say, oh, he'll be here. He's gonna get transferred over here as an adult and charged as an adult.

[Jack Lawrence]

Hello and welcome back to One minute remaining. My name is Jack Lawrence, the host and creator of this show. Today is part four of my chat with Evaristo Salas. Junior arrested for murder at just 15, Junior has grown up inside a US penitentiary. Now 42, he has less than three years left on his 30 year sentence, a sentence for a crime he says he didn't commit. So in our previous episode, we heard how an extreme coincidence would lead Junior to become suspect number one in a murder case that police had not had a single lead on in over six months. The man in charge of this investigation, Sergeant Jim Ravard, takes a couple of Polaroids of Junior, who was in the station being questioned with others on something completely unrelated. He then heads back to his office, chucks the photos on his desk, and an informant of his who is collecting money for other information he's provided and sees them and tells Rivard that Junior was the one he overheard bragging about the killing. The victim's partner, Ophelia Gonzalez, who has been unable to pick anyone out from a lineup so far, is then subsequently shown another lineup and is this time able to pick Junior from the photos as the person she says she sees the night of the shooting. Junior is then arrested and charged with murder. Did you get given a public defender?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

I did, and then my dad eventually got. I got a public defender first and then my dad got. Got another lawyer or ended up getting a lawyer, paid whatever he could. He, I mean, he had his life. What he told me is that he didn't want to really speak about how much he paid, but it was his life savings. He had something saved up or something. Yeah, everything he had. And then kind of threw at this lawyer, you know, and the lawyer was Hispanic, you know, and my dad was going to go with another person because he was like, whoa. But, but this guy's Hispanic. He kind of understands, you know, or culture. Culture, you know, plus he's kind of, he's kind of allowing me to kind of pay in like, increments so I can pay this much this time and pay this much this time, and it made it easier for him. Yeah, but the lawyer was, you know, he was. Was kind of horrible in a sense, you know, I mean, he never really spoke to me. He came a few times and then, I mean, I couldn't really understand what was going on in trial because I could only understand maybe 20% of the words that were being said. So I kind of just sat there and just like, okay, well, this, this guy knows what he's talking about. And hopefully he kind of just, you know me, but. And my dad is the same way because he's from Mexico, so he doesn't understand the laws and that kind of stuff. He speaks the language, but he doesn't have a grasp of it, you know, in that kind of sense.

[Jack Lawrence]

Even if you understand English as your first language. Like I, I read a lot of motions and stuff like that and legal terms and I just, I have to read it like seven, eight times over because I'm like, what? I don't get it. Missed something. So for a 15 year old and then also your dad who's originally from Mexico, it must have just been impossible.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yeah, it's, it's a whole different kind of language, you know, and so the jargon is different and the only reason I understand it now is because I spent years in law libraries here studying and I still get confused.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

And it's like in that sense, when we're fresh, we've never been through this. We don't have any experience. My dad doesn't get in trouble, so he, I mean, you don't even get parking tickets, you know. And so in me, everything I had prior to that was like trespassing or you know, malicious mischief or like a delinquent, some little small petty charge that, you know, is for, oh, I accidentally cut through this person's lawn and they didn't like it or, you know, I stayed at this place too long or something like that. So it doesn't require you to get a lawyer because it's so small and petty.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

But here we are thrust into this situation. None of it's a making of our own and here we are front and center, having to kind of understand. So we put all our trust in this lawyer and the lawyer pretty much took advantage of my family and he just did kind of part of mediocre, you know, and just pretty much, you know, made the argument that seemed alright to us but wasn't really strong. When I read back on it now, or anybody that reads, you know, goes through the files and everything says, man, this is, this is not really that good work, you know, and maybe that was his best. I don't know, you know, I couldn't tell at the time, you know, but that made it hard. But at the sense, it also gave us a sense of security, you know, because we're like, okay, at least we have somebody. It's not a public defender, so at least we're paying for it. That means we're gonna, you know, get some kind of help, you know. But it didn't help much, you know. Yeah, my dad just pretty much lost the money and this person did, you Know, maybe it was the best he can do, but it was. It was pretty mediocre, as we know.

[Jack Lawrence]

During his interrogations, Junior is asked to explain where he was at the time of this shooting. After a process of working his way back through important details, he remembers being in his local store, a place he would go almost daily with friends to grab a burrito and hang out. He says that while there, the lady working behind the counter, who he and his friends were friendly with, mentions the shooting to them. She just got a call from her mother who lives nearby.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

I remember we went to 7 11, me and like, two or three of my friends. And then the store clerk there was talking about, hey, somebody had just got killed somewhere on this side of town by this store or whatever. And I didn't pay much attention to it. She was just like, oh, my mom. I just. My mom just called me. Or I just talked to my mom right now, and she just starts sharing all this stuff. I didn't know her personally, but I was in the store so much that she seen me all the time. Yeah, she was nice to me and everything. And so we didn't really. Like. I didn't talk to her a lot, but she would see me. So she was like, oh, did you guys hear about it? I said, I don't know. I didn't hear anything about it. And I was like. I was like, who was it?

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

Who was it?

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Or something. I said something like that. She was like, well, I don't know. My mom just said that she. The cops are there right now and all that kind of stuff. It's a small town, so that's kind of how, like, you know, things spread around, that kind of stuff.

[Jack Lawrence]

So his junior sister on his alibi witness.

[Evaristo's Sister]

Because we lived really close to the 7:11.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yeah.

[Evaristo's Sister]

And so it was like, literally, like, five minutes walking. And this girl that was working there, her name was Sylvia. She's an older lady, and she knew my mom, too, you know.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah.

[Evaristo's Sister]

And she was, you know, she was into drugs. Like, she did her thing because she was, you know, she wasn't a perfect lady, but she worked there, and she would get along with my brother, and then. So she would always give my brother and them, like, leftover burritos, you know, chip, whatever, you know, she would always give them stuff all the time because, you know, like, she said, you know, they would, like, you know, come and get high with me, you know, do weed or whatever. So she would always do that for them. That night that that happened, he said he had went to the store, and she was there. And she remembers my brother going into the store with another friend of his, and they went in there and she gave him burritos, and they were talking and laughing in there, you know, whatever. And while she was sitting there talking to my brother, she had got a phone call from her mom. And her mom had told her that some guy had got shot right there next to her house or whatever. That's how that all came about. She even said, like, there's no way he could have made it from all the way to the opposite side of town to the store and be normal and come in and, hey, how are you doing? And look like he had nothing. Like, he wasn't sweating or nothing. You know what I mean? Like, and it's. And it's not close where that happened. I was pretty far.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Evaristo's Sister]

So there was no way he could have moved from there to there and be like, oh, yeah, hey, what's up? And then, you know, so she said he was there.

[Jack Lawrence]

So detectives would speak with this lady from the store who would back up Junior's story and say that, yes, she remembers Junior and his friends being in the store when she got the call. She says, and I quote, he did not look like someone who had just shot somebody. He was eating a burrito and drinking a pop. Now, there were suggestions that Junior could have shot the victim, then ran to the store for an alibi, and to that the store workers said that the shooting was on the other side of town from where they were. She testifies at Junior's trial and is asked the following questions. How is he behaving the way he always did? Was he sweating? No. Did he appear nervous to you? No. Was he speaking at a high rate of speed? No. Did he appear to have just finished running? No. Junior's alibi witness says that she was made to feel as though her opinion didn't matter because of her past having the history that she did, she believed she wasn't seen as a credible witness. She has always maintained her account of that evening. So the shooting of Jose Aurelio takes place on Sol Road. Police say they got their first calls between 6:20 and 6:30pm and they would arrive on scene four minutes later. Now, we can't be sure the exact time the fatal shots were fired, but if police get their first calls between 6:20 and 6:30, we can make an assumption that the shooting potentially happened a few minutes before that. To be generous, let's say the shooting happens at 6:20pm Then the first calls come in before 6:34 minutes later, police are on scene. Let's say from shooting to police arriving, 15 minutes. I'd suggest we are being generous with that, but let's say 15 minutes. Junior and his alibi say he's at the 7 11, which is located just over one and a half miles away, or two and a half kilometres. He's in the store eating a burrito and drinking a pop when the store clerk gets the call from her mother that someone just got shot near their house. The store clerk says Junior was not sweating. He did not look out of breath, he certainly did not look like he'd been running and in fact just looked, well, normal. So I decided to conduct an experiment, albeit not a very scientific experiment, I'll be honest. But I wanted to see how I would go after a run of this distance. I tested it today and I ran two and a half kilometers, like, kind of like as quickly as I could just to see what sort of shape I would be in. Because obviously she said you weren't sweating, you weren't out of breath. So I did that today and there was just no way anyone would describe me as someone who didn't look like they'd just been run. And I'm a guy who runs all the time. I run four or five times a week. It's not a scientific test because I'm not a 15 year old boy, but still I'm going. There's just no way you can look normal. And if you had committed that crime, you just shot someone, you wouldn't just be jogging, you'd be sprinting like you'd be going as fast as you could.

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

And also too, the second thing is too that it's not like a straight line from the southern left.

[Jack Lawrence]

No, no, there's, yeah, there's

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

neighborhoods, you

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

got to cut this way and you know.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay, so detectives say that obviously Junior was at this shooting on Seoul Road. His alibi witness puts him at the 7 11, which is mileage over a mile and a half away, which is two and a half kilometers. So I'm going to test that right now. Now obviously this isn't a highly scientific test because I haven't just shot someone, so there's no, no adrenaline.

[Jack Lawrence]

Now of course he was a 15

[Interviewer/Investigator]

year old boy and I'm a 36 year old man. But in saying that running is my

[Jack Lawrence]

thing, it's my only thing.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So it's not like I've never run before.

[Jack Lawrence]

Two and a half K. I'm gonna see how quickly I can run it, see what state I'm in.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Once I finish that run and just suss out whether or not someone could

[Jack Lawrence]

potentially be not out of breath. And she says she gets the call and you're already there. She says you're eating a burrito and drinking a pop, so you're already in there. So.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yeah, I'm already at the store.

[Jack Lawrence]

You're already at the store, so. And I did that run today, two and a half kilometers, and I did it in just over 11 minutes. And I was sprinting and I was absolutely wrecked.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah. Jeez. Gotta catch my breath. Two and a half K's, just over 11 minutes. As you can hear. I certainly sound like I've been running. I mean, sweating. I am sweating profusely now. As I said, this isn't exactly scientific experiment. Of course it's possible to do. To do it, but to do it and not be sweating, not be out of breath, you know, and if he's just. If you just shot someone, like police said, you're not jogging, you're sprinting.

[Jack Lawrence]

It don't see that it's possible for someone to get that distance in that amount of time, be in a store looking completely normal, having a pop, eating a burrito after apparently just having shot someone.

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

And the store is like, just right down the. It's like maybe six houses away from my house, like down the street. I was there all the time.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Jack Lawrence]

So we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we'll discuss the explosive claims made by one of the two major witnesses against Evaristo

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

Salas Jr. And I remember listening there, sitting there, listening to that, you know, and it was just everything about what he was saying. You can tell he's kind of almost just making up as he went that he didn't want to be there.

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Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend

[Brooke Devard]

hello hello, it's Brooke Devard from Naked Beauty. Join me each week for unfiltered discussion about beauty trends, self care journeys, we wellness tips and the products we absolutely love and cannot get enough of. If you are a skincare obsessive and you spend 20 plus minutes on your skincare routine, this podcast is for you. Or if you're a newbie at the beginning of your skincare journey, you'll love this podcast as well. Because we go so much deeper than beauty. I talk to incredible and inspiring people from across industries about their relationship with beauty. You'll also hear from skincare experts. We break down lots of myths in the beauty industry. If this sounds like your thing, search for Naked Beauty on your podcast app and listen along. I hope you'll join us.

[Jack Lawrence]

Just want to take a quick opportunity Shout out to some of our legendary Patreon members. Of course there are many ways in which you can support this show. All the details are in the show notes, but to some of our Patreons like Bailey Waters, Matt Matcott, Fiona Baldacino, Leona Darcy, Lynn Cox, Ben Chad, Jose, Kristin Edmonds, Sophie Gledhill, Joyce Loveless, Susan Patton, Lindsay Libby Hartman, Paul Worley, Melissa Kingston, Cooper Gunn, Matt Jones Legends. Thank you so much indeed. Your support helps us to continue creating this show. Thank you. Evaristo Salas Jr. Is on trial for his life, staring down the barrel of 30 plus years being tried as an adult. There is absolutely no evidence to tie Junior to this crime. No forensics, no DNA and no murder weapon is ever found. The only evidence against him is the statements from two individuals, Detective Ravard's informant and the wife of the victim, Ophelia Gonzalez. Now we will cover Ophelia in an upcoming episode, but right now we're going to focus on this informant. So Detective Jim Ravard's informant is on the stand. The man who says he was smoking weed with Junior. When he brags about killing the victim. The informant says Junior's exact words were he wouldn't have wanted to be the one who cleaned up the mess in that pickup And Junior's attorney gets up and while questioning him, says, I asked you a question and you've given a different answer. Could you explain that, please? And the informant then says, oh, yes, I've been diagnosed with CRS disease. When asked to clarify what CRS was, he says, I told them I can't remember shit. It's fair to say this informant didn't quite turn out to be the star witness the prosecution was hoping for full.

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

And I remember listening there, sitting there and listening to that, you know, and it was just everything about what he was saying. You can tell he's kind of almost just making up as he went that he didn't want to be there. And. And prior to that, I guess they had an interview with him and my little had talked to him where he made up all kinds of different scenarios. And then he just basically said that he didn't want to be there and that he wasn't going to show up or something like that. And then they.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

So he.

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

I guess after that interview he got an argument with Revar, the detective. And then right after they. They threw him in jail and said that he. There was a threat to his life. Well, apparently what Bill going or what he's saying now is that that was regard way of saying that you're gonna go, or this is what I'm gonna

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

do to you, you know, I mean,

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

so that's why he ended up showing up there.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

You can tell it was so obvious

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

that when he was up there on the stand that he just didn't know what he was talking about, you know, and he was just all over the place. And it didn't take much to get him that way, you know, I mean, but you can. You can tell that someone had kind of coached him to a certain extent, or he was trying to stick to kind of a line, some lines that he was doing, but it was falling apart, you know, and it was obvious. It was obvious to me, you know, I mean, I didn't know the guy, so I knew he was lying already. And I've never actually seen him before. You know, he said he kind of. He seen me somewhere, something like that. But I don't remember any of that happening. But it's just for me, it was. It was. I couldn't believe that that was happening. I didn't understand why he was saying those things because I knew they weren't true. Like I was just almost like I was a third person to just watch it happen and thinking, what the hell is going on here? You know, I mean, and the jury, I'm pretty sure the jury looked at that. They had to be like, well, this guy's course he's lying. They couldn't. I can't. Even when I think back on it now, I couldn't imagine anybody taking any of that seriously.

[Jack Lawrence]

You know, there's one juror that's popped up on a couple of these shows that have, you know, the wrong man and the other show that looked into your case and he said that after this guy testified and came out with this can't remember shit diagnosis, he said that. For me, that kind of completely just struck him. His testimony. What? To completely just struck his testimony off completely. So what happened? Why did this informant go from apparently telling Detective Ravard that. That he'd heard Junior confess to this crime and that Jim had his man to getting up on the stand and acting somewhat belligerent? Well, In June of 2018, a TV show called Wrong man aired in the United States. It was a six episode documentary following three cases of different men who claimed to be innocent. Episode one and two featured the case of Evaristo Salis Jr. During the filming of this show, investigators tracked down this informant who decided he wanted to talk. One of those investigators was former Detroit police officer Ira Todd. Pleasure to finally get to chat with you, sir.

[Ira Todd]

Yeah, no worries, no worries. Wherever you want to get started, Ed, I'm okay.

[Jack Lawrence]

Ira has had an impressive career in law enforcement, working many different areas, including gangs and homicide squads, and his specialty is interrogations. Ira, however, is a little different to your average cop in the fact that he can sympathise with those who have been wrongfully accused of a crime. In September of 1993, while on duty, Ira Todd himself was wrongfully accused and arrested for murder, a murder he was later acquitted of at trial. During episode two, the show Wrong Man, Ira Todd sits down down with a man whose identity is protected. A man who says he is the informant who gave the statement to Jim Rad. He then proceeds to tell Ira that his entire statement was false.

[Ira Todd]

Oh yeah, yeah. And again, we even polygraphed that guy. We polygraphed. It was, it was the officer snitch. And we actually polygraphed him. Yeah. And basically, and, and I mean, this guy passes polygraph and see, and that's some of the problem. I call it the Mark Thurman, that Mark Furman type of policing. And what it is, they believe it in their head so much they're guilty that they orchestrate some evidence or they, they manipulate some evidence or something like that. They do Some sort of orchestration. And like, if you ever follow the O.J. simpson case and if you ever saw the blood splatter on that sock, you would know that that sock was laying flat when somebody actually dropped some blood on it. Because the way the pattern went through and through, it wasn't on somebody's foot.

[Prosecutor or Courtroom Narrator]

Those socks, from the beginning, been a thorn, is going to bring them down. Nobody sees any blood until August 4th. Dr. Herb McDonald came in here and he told you there was no splatter or spatter on these socks. These socks had compression transfer. And he used his hands to show you. Somebody took those socks and they put something on them, and it went all the way through to side three. How'd he get over there? It wouldn't get there if there was a leg in the sock. This is, to say the least, disturbing.

[Ira Todd]

And I think that's what cops do sometimes. Some of the bad cops do. Sometimes they try to manipulate that evidence because, well, we know he did it, so, you know, we're just fine. Like, we had the thing years ago that's called a dropsy, where, you know, you'll see a dope guy, and of course they'll drop the dope. But you have some officers say, I saw him reach into his pocket, take it out of his right pocket with his right hand, and then he dropped it to the ground. And I watched it fall to the ground, you know, right on that spot. Never took my. You know, that kind of stuff. When all they really saw was the door was right by him, the guy was moving.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Ira Todd]

You know, all they had to do is just tell the truth. And because someone has a learned behavior, and some of us taught. Someone was taught. You know, some of these officers are taught how to articulate the facts. And some of the guys don't understand. They're trying to teach them how to articulate the facts, but the true facts, not create some facts, you know. And that's what happened, man. Some people will take it to a different level.

[Jack Lawrence]

He says that Jim Rivard one day pointed out Junior to him and said, you see that piece of shit right there? I'm gonna get him. The informant then says that Rivard tells him, I need you to go and hang out with him. I'll give you some weed, and you need to get him to talk and tell you what he did. So Rivard tells the informant where Junior hangs out, and off he goes. The informant says that Junior tells him absolutely nothing. He goes back to Rivard and he says, rivard gets a photo lineup out and he points out Junior Salas. He says Rivard then hands him a statement and says that he needs to put it into his own words. He apparently assures the informant that it would never go to trial, as they had another witness, and that Junior would take a plea. As we know, Junior doesn't. And the informant has to then take the stand. He says this is why on the day he acted the way he did, making the statement about CRS disease, he didn't want to be there, and he wanted to do everything he could without making it obvious that he didn't actually know anything. The informant says that eventually he was compensated for his testimony.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

Yeah, that was the first time he. Yeah, he came out. He said that. I think he. My lawyers told me. They said that he attempted to contact the chief of police, maybe. I think it was a couple months after he had already testified against me.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

And kind of tell him. And I think that comes from him. And they said they didn't want to hear it or they wouldn't even question him, or they wouldn't even. They didn't even care, really. But that was the first time. So when they. When they interviewed him, I didn't hear about that until maybe two or three months later is when they actually told me. They said. They said, oh, we interviewed them and we'll kind of. Because they're doing their investigation and they're trying to be really thorough. So when. Wrong man. When they had their little team of investigators, they were just looking at. And they told me this. They said, look, if we come across anything that shows that you did it, we're going to reveal that. So if you're telling the truth, I said, look, by all means, I give you everything I'm telling you right now. I'm telling the truth. What you're going to discover is the truth. And they said, okay. And so they investigated in that kind of way. There wasn't like, okay, we believe it was none of that. It was like, well, this is what you're saying. We got all your paperworks. It does seem to, you know, like there's something going on there.

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

But we're gonna investigate it, and then

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

we'll come with our conclusion with that. And once, you know, that person came forward and talked to other people and they kind of, you know, looked in depth at the, you know, at their investigation. All the stuff that, you know, that the cop, you know, the cop left out, like, that's when they came to the conclusion. Plus what, you know, when he came forward, have said all those things. Like, okay, we believe that you really didn't do it, you know, and so they revealed it to me. Okay, well, this informant came forward and said this. And I kind of. When they told me that, you know, I cried because it was like I knew he was lying, but I just didn't understand why, because I had no connection to him. I don't know the person, you know, I mean, I don't know him at all. You know, and he had said that he had, you know, we had. That he. Ravard had went up to, you know, sent him to talk to me and all that kind of stuff, you know, about the case. I don't even remember that happening. And maybe it's a year that passed, but that's what he said. And that I, you know, I didn't, you know, I didn't know anything about it, that kind of stuff. And that's when Rivard said, oh, well, he did it. And this is how he's going to say so. When they actually told me that, you know, I mean, there was a sense of a feeling of, okay, this is what I've been saying. Finally we got something.

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

Yeah, finally.

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

And so there was a sense of almost a relief.

[Jack Lawrence]

Now, it's important to point out that former Detective Jim Rivard has and continues to deny these claims made by the informant. He was in fact, confronted on the show by Ira with this information, and he categorically denies falsifying this statement. So, I mean, he's obviously still in prison now, and he's still obviously trying to clear his name.

[Ira Todd]

It's too much reasonable doubt. And even with the snitch saying he lied, he gave false testimony, even with Rivera even kind of admitting to some stuff, you know. You know, it was enough to show that this. This boy was railroaded. Like you said, they didn't have enough. So they manufactured. He manufactured something just to get it over the edge. You know, he got overzealous. And I even asked him, you know, in the show, I asked him, you know, how many homicides have you investigated? He said, this was my first. You know, he wants to solve it. And then like, you know, and. And, you know, Everesta was pretty much a little gang guy, probably a little smart ass. So here it is.

[Prosecutor or Courtroom Narrator]

This.

[Ira Todd]

This guy in this cop, you know, a small town cop, you know, I'll teach him. And I'm gonna teach him because it's my beliefs. He really didn't think he was gonna go to jail. I really believe he was gonna set Everesto up to teach him a lesson, get him through the process, but I don't think he ever thought it would make it past preliminary exam.

[Jack Lawrence]

Just frightened him, basically.

[Ira Todd]

Yes. And I think that's what happened on all of that. But that boy shouldn't be in jail. It's too much. I mean, it's too much. Too many things to doubt on that case. It's too much.

[Evaristo's Sister]

You have one minute remaining.

[Jack Lawrence]

And that's where we'll wrap it up for today. Now, after all this information that you've heard in this episode, you'd be forgiven for wondering how on earth Evaristo Sales Jr. Is still in prison after all these years. Well, let's not forget, even though we know the snitch says his testimony was falsified, there's still the prosecution's other key witness, the wife of the man who was killed that night, Ophelia Gonzales. She would eventually pick Junior out of a photo lineup and was adamant in court that this young man pulled the trigger. Although certain information that was later discovered after Junior was found guilty has raised more than just a few eyebrows.

[Evaristo's Lawyer or Family Member]

The image of her just being this, you know, the victim and everything and just, you know, seeing things that. That would have changed because now you have her doing these things that don't make sense for a person to do.

[Evaristo's Sister]

Next time on 1 minute remaining.

[Jack Lawrence]

1 minute remaining is a mash pumpkin production produced, hosted and created by Jack Lawrence. Editing and sound design by Jack Lawrence and Dom Evans. This show is part of the Acast Creator network.

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[Nikayla Matthews]

if you've ever dreamed of quitting your job to take your side hustle full time, listen up. This is Nikayla Matthews, aome, host of Side Hustle Pro, a podcast that helps you build and grow from passion project to profitable business. Every week you'll hear from guests just like you who wanted to start a business on the side. If you can't run a side hustle,

[Evaristo Salas Jr.]

you can't run a business.

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They share real tips and so I started connecting with all these people on LinkedIn in and I thought target supplier diversity was having office hours. Real advice.

[Evaristo's Sister]

Procrastination is the easiest form of resistance

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[Ira Todd]

Com.