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- [00:00]
A
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- [01:00]
B
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- [01:30]
C
This podcast is supported by MIDI Health. Are you in midlife and feeling dismissed, unheard or just plain tired of the old healthcare system? You're not alone. For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored and met with a just deal with it attitude. Many of us have been made to feel ashamed or forgotten. In fact, even today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated. It's time for a change. It's time for midi. MIDI is not just a healthcare provider, it's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world class leaders in women's health. What sets MIDI apart? We are the only women's telehealth brand covered by major insurance companies, making high quality expert care accessible and affordable for all women. Our clinicians provide one on one face to face consultations where they truly listen to your unique needs we offer a full range of holistic, data driven solutions from hormonal therapies and weight loss protocols to lifestyle coaching and preventative health guidance. This isn't one size fits all care. This is care uniquely tailored for you. At midi, you will join our patients who feel seen, heard and prioritized. You will find that our mission is clear to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the healthcare they deserve. Because we believe midlife isn't the middle at all. It's the beginning of your second act. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit join midi.com today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com the Care Women deserve
- [03:08]
D
I made a decision I didn't get down, which is I didn't get fine. I didn't get involved. I stand by that decision. Whatever you guys decide, I accept. And they were like, all right, well you're ex found. That means that whenever we see you, we're going to deal with you. I come out, I look to my father and he had this look on his face and it was the look of a man that looked like he was about to see his son devoured by lions. He went and got the truck out without permission, had it washed, cleaned, whatever, and sold it the next day. But that boy shouldn't be in jail. There's too many things to doubt on that case. It's too much.
- [03:52]
E
Hello and welcome back to one minute remaining. My name is Jack Lawrence, the host and creator of this show. Today is part six and the final part for now of my chat with Evaristo Silas Jr. The man who was convicted of murder at just 15, now in his 40s and with less than three years to go on a 30 year sentence, Jr. Convicted continues to fight to clear his name. As we know, Evaristo Salas Jr. Is found guilty of murder shooting Jose Aurelio twice in the head. The judge would tell him that if he could give him a life sentence, he would. But he can't. So instead he sentences him to the maximum that he possibly can. 30 years junior a child is now headed to a men's prison, a place where gangs rule with fear and violence. The population segregates themselves by race and predators prey on the weak. I'm sure most people listening to this right now would understand that prisons are not safe places. But to really spell out how dangerous it can be for a youngster in a men's prison. Shortly after a 16 year old was booked into Florida's Polk County Jail in February of 2012. His three cellmates punched him, whipped him, and nearly strangled him with a pillowcase. They would then urinate on him, spray his face with cleaning fluid, strip him naked, before wrapping a sheet around his neck, tying the other end around the window bar and pulling it so tight he would lose consciousness. They would repeat this attack three times over the course of several hours without jail guards on regular rounds ever noticing. So now let's try and place ourselves in Junior's position. Take yourself back to when you were just 15 and try to imagine that you're being led into a giant building surrounded by fences, guard towers and barbed wire. As you're let in through doors and gates, they lock behind you and you're hit by an incredible wall of sound. The sound of prisoners banging on cell doors, screaming obscenities and all glaring at you. Junior, standing at just 5 foot tall, looking like you could pass for a 12 year old, is quite literally going into the lion's den.
- [07:06]
D
In prison, the yard is where pretty much everything is handled or like when you talk to and everything, it's always done in the yards. So that first yard I went to was when I was kind of approached by the Hispanics that were there. Yeah. And I was kind of, I didn't trust anybody. So I had all these things in my mind by the things I saw on those videos that they showed us in the juvenile. But they came and kind of, they helped me in a certain, to a certain way because what they did is that they kind of told me all the rules, the rules that they had in place of what to do, what not to do, how to act, how to carry yourself. And these are adult, these are adult offenders. You know, I'm a juvenile, but instead of preying on me, which I thought they were going to maybe try to do, so I was ready to fight or whatever I had to do, you know what I mean I was going to do because I wasn't going to just be preyed upon. But basically what they were telling me is just, you know, kind of how to stay out of trouble or not get in trouble by other groups. You know, see these group of people kind of stay away from them, they do this or that. So they're kind of just telling me all the little things that I may not have seen around the yard because I was so young. They looked at me almost as a son or as a little brother. So they protected me. And not only me, but there was other juveniles that came a little bit later too that were Hispanic. And they did the same. They didn't take advantage of us. They gave us. They offered us things. I didn't take anything because I was like, you know, don't take anything. So I was weary that. But they offered me food, things that I didn't have, you know, toothpaste, that kind of stuff. And they walked with me all the time, and they made sure that none of the groups kind of preyed upon us. And so prison is basically everything. Is race based in prison? Yeah, you go with your race first, and that's just the way it is. There's no ifs or buts about that, you know, and there were certain predators that were there that were already known by these individuals, even though it was like a receiving center and these guys were just coming in from the county jails. Some have been there, you know, a few months. Some had done time before, you know, some were just, you know, cycling through to go into the prison. They pretty much were like, you know, stay away from this person, or they would kind of be around us at that time and that kind of stuff. So in that sense, they kind of protected us. So it helped because it gave me. It gave us a certain amount of time to kind of, you know, to get used to that kind of environment, if you can.
- [09:17]
E
Yeah.
- [09:17]
D
And as a juvenile, it was. I was. I was grateful for it. I still didn't trust any of them. I still was kind of weary of them all, you know, but here they are, you know, they're making sure that nobody does anything to me or take anything from me. So that's a good. That's a plus.
- [09:38]
E
So Junior is relatively, for want of a better term, safe for now in what would be his new home. The gang, as he says, takes him under their wing and treats him more like a younger brother or a son, making sure that no one preys on him until one day a law is passed and he's on the move.
- [09:58]
D
And then I think it was like three or four months into that, they passed a new law where they weren't going to have juveniles housed with adults. So what they did is they took all the adults out of that unit and then just brought in all the juveniles from around the state that were already housed in other prisons, and then the ones that were just being convicted and placed us in this unit right here. So we were segregated. And the reason they did that is because Prior, I think, 94, 95, a lot of these juveniles were being, you know, raped, you know, being preyed upon, being turned in, you know, to do things, all that kind of stuff. So they had to just, like the county jail, they had to find a way to protect them or protect us. And so they segregated us and then they started just piling us in there. You know, there was juveniles coming from all over different counties. I mean, I was 16. The youngest one that came in was 14 and he had 20 years. And so they were coming from all over the state. It was basically within about eight, nine months of being there. You know, when I got there, there was 16 of us. I was a 16th juvenile. I had the most time and I was the youngest. A year later, there was 120 juveniles there and 14 year old, 14 year old guy was the youngest. And a life sentence was the most. And that just goes to show that, that at that time, what was going on, you know, in the counties that they were coming from, that they were just hard on juveniles.
- [11:16]
E
Sadly, Junior is by no means an unusual case. As he mentions, the US has a tough stance on juveniles who commit crimes. In fact, we know that the United States leads the industrialised world in the number and percentage of children it locks up in juvenile detention facilities. With over 60,000 children in such facilities. In 2011, the US also sends an extraordinary number of these children, just like Junior, to adult jails and prisons. In fact, in 2011, more than 95,000,
- [11:51]
D
an accused killer, now 16 years old, has been certified to stand trial as an adult. Paul Gingrich was only 12 when he pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit murder. Gingrich is believed to be the youngest person in Indiana ever sentenced to prison as an adult. I'm Colt lundy and I'm 15 years old. It's overwhelming. I got 30 years to spend five for probation.
- [12:15]
F
The verdict reads.
- [12:16]
C
We the jury find the defendant, Jacob
- [12:17]
D
mine, guilty of first degree murder.
- [12:20]
C
Guilty at 16 years old. The mandatory sentence at that time, because he was tried as an adult, life in prison with no possibility of parole.
- [12:46]
E
Yet again, Junior would find himself in a new segregated section with the rest of the juveniles that were being bussed in from around the county, until once more they're on the move again to yet another facility in segregation until they hit 18.
- [13:00]
D
We were there for almost 18 months and then decided they're going to transfer all the juveniles to a level four prison and sent us to a place called Qualum Bay Correction center, which was at that time was known as Gladiator School because of all the stabbings and riots and all the terrible prison stuff that goes there. Everybody ever talked like, oh, this place is horrible. You know, it's just battle all the time, it's war and all that kind of stuff. But they put us there, but they segregated us as adults still. As soon as we turned 18, they just threw us into the general population. I was still young, so when I went into the general population it was the same kind of environment. Just it's a level four prison, so it was even worse. It wasn't a receiving center. So this is real prison or if you mess up, you get stabbed or you get jumped and that kind of stuff. The groups are real segregated. The gangs weren't yet control of anything. At least amongst the Hispanics. It was mainly race based everything. And there were stabbings happening all the time. I witnessed two or three of them, riots, staff, assaults, were locked down all the time. It was, it was violent beyond, you know, beyond measure, you know. And for me there was only probably about 40 or 50 Hispanics there. But they kind of, we all, like I said, they pretty much protected each other, kind of stayed out of a lot of the stuff that was going on. They had their own drama, but it was like in the other unit. But it allowed me to kind of just kind of be separated from that stuff and it gave me a little wiggle room. And then the fact that I was part of the gang that I was part of before meant that even amongst the Hispanics, because there was two kind of dominant gangs and then there was there was one that kind of controlled everything. And you were from any three of those ones, they couldn't tell the other ones what to do. So they would kind of leave you alone and just kind of, you're still under their umbrella. But they wouldn't be able to come tell you to be like, oh, we'll go, go do this or go take care of this business or here's a shame, go do this and that. So they couldn't do anything that to me because I was part of that gang that I was on the streets and that gang had a little, little small kind of following within the prison system, but enough to kind of keep them at bay. But there was other individuals that were coming in that were white or black, mainly white, that would come in and they used to prey upon their own people. They would take that little 18 year old, give them a weapon and tell them to go do this or hey, go do that or do any worse things to them because they didn't really care about what happened to them. And so, yeah, you've seen a lot of that kind of stuff, you know, and it Was a really, really violent place. But I had to go to a level four prison for four years because first degree of murder, you go to level four for four years before you can go down to lower custody. And then from there I went to the Washington State Penitentiary and I was, I think I was two years in Columbia. And then they sent me to Washington State, State Penitentiary and I requested to go there because that's closer to my home. Qualm Bay was like. And it was so far away from, you know, Sunnyside or Yakima. But the wash Day penitentiary was pretty, was closer on like maybe a three hour drive compared to like a 12 hour drive from Columbia. That there was, it was structured. That's where the gangs are pretty much pretty structured over there and they are in control. And it was just. Yeah, it was, they were. And then slowly they started kind of gaining power. Certain two groups of gangs pretty much gained the most power. And then they went to war with each other all over the system. And because I was a part of that other gang, I was part of all that stuff too. During that period of time. I'm still writing letters, you know, still trying to, you know, proclaiming my innocence, still trying to find ways, but getting wrapped up in all this stuff over here, I couldn't really avoid. And so I was in the number of fights, you know, I got attacked a few times and it was, it was pretty violent. I spent about over a 12 year period. I spent about nine and a half years in level 5 or isolation in the hole because of fighting and because of fighting, because of my gang ties, my gang involvement, that kind of stuff, you know. And it was basically one, one gang was saying that, well, this is our prison and because you're affiliated with this gang or we're affiliated with, you can't be here. So we're gonna either go attack you, we're gonna fight or whatever. So for about, I think it was five or five years, everywhere I went had to fight or they were gonna attack me.
- [17:22]
E
And there's no way, you can't turn around and say, I'm not, I'm not in associated with this gang anymore. Because then you become a target again.
- [17:29]
D
Anyway, the strange thing about it, it's pretty much the same. It's almost just a replay of what's going on, you know, on the streets. But on a more serious level, because now they're really established, they're organized and this is their place. If I was to go, let's say, to another prison that's dominated by one gang, and say, look, I'm not with this stuff anymore. They're still going to stab me and try to kill me to get me out of there. And then if I do that, then they're gonna send me back to where this other gang is and they're, oh, you didn't, you didn't stand up for yourself. So now we're gonna stab you, we're gonna try to kill you or forget that. You're just gonna stay in the hole for the rest of your time and you're never gonna come out. And if you get labeled weak or something, then all the groups get a piece of it and that's, that's the horror. So your best bet is just to fight every time you can stand with your own if it's your gang and stand with them and, and because to do anything other than that is going to make it even worse.
- [18:20]
E
So we're going to take a short break and when we come back, Junior talks us through breaking away from the gang and becoming a target.
- [18:28]
D
I made a decision I didn't get down, which is I didn't get in fight, I didn't get involved. I stand by that decision. Whatever you guys decide, I accept. And they were like, all right, well you're ex found. That means that whenever we see you, we're going to deal with you. Foreign.
- [18:48]
G
Hey, this is Knox from the podcast. The youth mental health crisis is growing and social media is a major driver. Kids are spending up to nine hours a day on screens, often unsupervised. And studies show a direct link to anxiety, depression, and even suicidal thoughts. That's where Gab comes in. Gab offers safer phones and watches for kids with no social media. Tailored to every age, offering the right tech at the right time or tech in steps. From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for teens, each device allows kids to more safely grow their independence. Visit gab.com getgab and use code getgab for an exclusive offer. That's gab g-a b b.com getgab gab tech and steps independence for them. Peace of mind for parents.
- [19:35]
C
This podcast is supported by MIDI Health. Are you in midlife and feeling dismissed, unheard, or just plain tired of the old healthcare system? You're not alone. For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored and met with a just deal with it attitude. Many of us have been made to feel ashamed or forgotten. In fact, even today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated. It's time for a Change. It's time for midi. MIDI is not just a healthcare provider, it's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world class leaders in women's health. What sets MIDI apart? We are the only women's telehealth brand covered by major insurance companies making high quality, expert care accessible and affordable for all women. Our clinicians provide one on one face to face consultations where they truly listen to your unique needs. We offer a full range of holistic, data driven solutions from hormonal therapies and weight loss protocols to lifestyle coaching and preventative health guidance. This isn't one size fits all care. This is care uniquely tailored for you. At midi, you will join our patients who feel seen, heard and prioritized. You will find that our mission is clear to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the healthcare they deserve. Because we believe midlife isn't the middle at all. It's the beginning of your second act. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmiddy.com today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com the Care Women deserve We all belong outside.
- [21:11]
H
We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it, but the outdoors is closer than we realize. With alltrails, you can discover trails nearby by and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with Alltrails.
- [21:43]
E
One thing people say when listening to Junior speak in these episodes is how astounded they are by how calm he is about his situation. Well, he wasn't always that way and in fact at one point became extremely angry about his situation and started to lash out his Junior.
- [21:59]
D
When I started that sense, I had a lot of faith that I was still going to get out, that things were going to change. And as I grew older, my mind began to develop more and I began to become more mature and I began to realize it's not going to change, that this is going to drag out 30 plus years. I couldn't see past it. I became angry at the system, I became angry at everybody that was around me and I just whatever I could do, I didn't care I remember I used to say this all the time. Well, if they're gonna have me in here for something I didn't do, then I might. I might as well make it worth it. They did me wrong. Nobody cares. It doesn't matter. I go to what I know, you know, fought, got angry, and I was part of this gang stuff. So it just, you know, it went into all that. So I fought a number of times and I end up staying. I ended up being in the hole for years. And that in itself was. It was a mental journey. Yeah.
- [22:48]
E
I mean, isolation is one of the worst things that you can do to a person.
- [22:51]
D
Yeah. I mean, and I felt it. I get out maybe for a week here and then get into it with somebody or get attacked or that kind of stuff and then go back. And there was one moment where I kind of felt like my mind was almost teetering and it scared me. In the hole, you don't really. You can't talk to nobody because you get in trouble, and you can't sign with nobody because you get in trouble. So you're basically. It's just you in a room and nothing else really exists. Every little noise would kind of send me into kind of an anxiety attack. And then nightmares came, racing thoughts, all the things that are classic. You know, basically, you're going insane. They come actually check on you. They have these people that come check on you. They don't really check on it. They come and ask you. They're a psychiatrist. They come and ask, are you doing all right? You can be on the edge of insanity. You can be going crazy. You're going to tell them, I'm fine. Yeah, because if you tell them I'm going crazy or something's happening to me or I'm starting to have these with thoughts. Everybody on the tier is going to see that, and they're going to label you as weak, and then they're going to grab on you. It's just a weird kind of prison thing. I don't know what it is. And so everybody just suffers in their own way. But you're all going to eventually go insane. And I've seen that you can know if they're going to survive two or three years because there were long sentence in those places. That first year is usually when they go crazy. And I would see it all the time. These guys would just start screaming. They start smearing feces on themselves, you know, screaming at things that are not there, yelling for their moms. I mean, it was just. It was a. It was a Constant. Every day. I've seen that kind of stuff, and it was horrible. The way I did it was when I started feeling that I was heading in that direction, I was getting too close to that. I started just reading. And that's where I got into a lot of Eastern philosophy. And that stuff really helped me. I got into this little discussion, almost an argument with the psychiatrist, because I told him, I said, do you think isolation breeds insanity? And he wouldn't answer me. Even though he knew that I was taking a shot, he wouldn't answer me. But he goes, oh, then we just started having this conversation, just a general conversation about books. And he goes, you know what? I think there's a book you might like. And he brought me this book, and it was called the Power of Now or New Earth or something. I can't remember. But it was about kind of Buddhist teachings, all kinds of different things, but really kind of brought me back because it helped me kind of really realize what the mind is kind of doing itself. Because in those situations, the mind is kind of starting to cannibalize itself. It's going after every negative thought you can find, and then it's replanted in your mind over and over. The book said, oh, well, there's a technique that you can use when your mind's in a certain situation. He says, you know, think of some memory that has no emotion or feelings attached to it. And then every time your mind heads off in these weird directions, you know, these negative directions, take it back to that. That memory. And so what I did, I just started thinking to myself. Painting, my garage, my house.
- [25:37]
E
Yeah, it was just some mundane.
- [25:39]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just. I just went back to that. That moment. And. And so what that did is it created a gap in my mind, a little peaceful gap. And as I continued to do that, it was kind of a meditation practice that the book taught. Then I began to bring myself back, and then I developed these moments of peace. And then isolation became almost like a garden of solitude, you know, it's strange to say it like that, but it became an enlightening moment, you know, and then I started battling all the emotional traumas of the past. Instead of running from those traumas and the things I dealt with, I started facing them. That was just the beginning. I had still had years of, you know, extracting myself from the gang, which came later.
- [26:18]
E
That wouldn't be an easy process to extract yourself from the gangs, I would imagine.
- [26:21]
D
Oh, that. It was horrible, and it was dangerous and it was hard, but. And it happened So I had got into it. I had broke my hand in the process. I got into this fight with these other guys. I had grown up. Like I said, my mother was real religious. We were always at church as a kid. And I think the single greatest gift my mom ever gave me, in spite of all her shortcomings, she taught me how to pray with sincerity. So at that moment, when I was, you know, I got into this fight and I ended up breaking my hand. I was in the hospital and I was in this isolation cell, pretty big one. They couldn't keep me in the actual hole with the cast on. And in that moment, I just, you know, I said a prayer. It was a short prayer. And I said that if I ever get out of the hole and get the opportunity to actually change things and leave the gang, I would one day. I ended up getting out of the hole. You know, I went up straight to the, you know, the gang leaders at the time and said, look, you know, I don't want to be a part of this kind of stuff anymore. And I know you guys need to do your thing. That's fine. But I was well known. I'd been in prison for 20 years, and, you know, they couldn't really accept that, you know, by me saying that it was pretty much over for me. And I pretty much put myself on a list where I was going to be attacked in one form or another, maybe even killed.
- [27:40]
E
So you tell the gang members that you don't want to be part of this gang anymore, and they essentially say, okay, fine. You said, you make yourself a target. How do you avoid getting attacked?
- [27:52]
D
There was a certain amount of respect because I'd already dared and known that I spent so much time in the hole, so they were going to give me a little leeway. But I knew by saying that that there was only so much. Eventually they were going to attack me. That's what I figured. Once I did that, I had already crossed that line. Some of them knew about it, not all. It's not like I went out there and then every single person. You don't have to talk to every single person. You talk to one or two people that are in charge, you kind of explain to them they were all right with that. They were just, okay, just do your thing, you know, I mean, all that kind of stuff, you know. But when I stopped, you know, doing their little program, and what I mean by that is, so they almost have a system of indoctrination where it's education. They have these little things with education that kind of stuff, you know, things you have to do in prison, certain rules you have to follow. So I stopped shaking up with them. I stopped kind of talking to them. Shaking up means, like, shaking their hands and all that kind of stuff. I stopped going to their little education programs that they have in the yards, that kind of stuff. And this was a real violation. And so maybe they assumed that I was going to go keep on going with those kind of things. And then I started kind of bucking the system. You know, people that are coming in, I'm trying to explain to them that they. To try to stay out of prison rather than stay in prison, which was a real definite no. No. I took a couple classes that they considered what they consider dropout classes, or they're basically classes doing better, bettering yourself, that kind of stuff. And they don't like these kind of classes because they kind of take away gang members and kind of reform them, and they don't want to be gang members no more, so they don't like you. So they basically said, these classes right here are classes you cannot go to. And I knew what I was doing. I was like, eventually they're gonna. They're gonna do what they're gonna do. You make an example. I mean, that kind of stuff. But it never happened, you know, I just continued what I was doing. There was times where I thought it was gonna come where they were. Like a couple times they came up talking. Look, man, you need a program. You ain't doing this, you ain't doing that. Some of the guys I knew for years, so they were. I think they're to a certain extent, were trying to make excuses for me because they were always coming to talking, be like, look, you know, just shake their hands, you know, I mean, you gotta just stand with us. You gotta. You know what I mean?
- [29:50]
E
So it's almost. They almost see it as a sign of disrespect.
- [29:52]
D
Oh, yeah, it was. It was disrespect. I wasn't intentionally doing it that way. It was because I needed to get away from all that stuff. I didn't feel that connection with it anymore. I started seeing everything that I'd done up to that for that. For the gang stuff. And I started feeling guilty about it and I started seeing through it. And maybe it was the education of reading all the books and my mind expanding and not being so ignorant. It's something they don't respect at all. There was a lot of tension. I kind of felt it was going to come. I didn't know if I was going to survive. I thought maybe I could kill it. And then one day, a big old riot took place in the yard. One of the most violent riots I've seen. I'm obligated as being part of the game day. If there's a fight, you get in. There's no ifs or buts. We don't care what you're doing. If you don't get in, then it's done. You're done regardless, it doesn't matter. And at that moment, I didn't get involved. I sat back, I stayed away from it, and they took everybody to the hole and then they got me. Because I was a part of that game. They took me the hole anyways. And then when I was in the hole that the my used to be friends or gang members, you know, they were like, hey, so people are saying you didn't get involved or this kind of stuff. And I said, look, I told you guys, I made a decision. I didn't get down, which is I didn't get fine, I didn't get involved. I stand by that decision. Whatever you guys decide, I accept. And they were like, all right, well, you're ex found. That means that whenever we see you, we're going to deal with you.
- [31:12]
E
Prison has now become even more dangerous for junior. Not only does he have to worry about rival gang members, but also people he once considered friends and in a way, family, until he would get handed a lifeline.
- [31:28]
D
So now if they see me, every one of them is obligated to come after me by me, not, you know, involving myself in that action out here. That was all they needed, you know, and there was no one that was going to be able to stop that. So I figured that once I got out of the hole that I was going to be attacked. And I kind of accepted that to a certain extent. And the administration came up and spoke to me and they said that, well, we know that you left the gangster. We know that. Are you done with it? They had already know that I wasn't doing anything out there. I wasn't involved in anything, you know, and prior to that, I was involved in all the things, you know. Well, not all the things, but a lot of the things. And they know what's going on. They have their little set of people that are there, so they knew everything. And they were just like, are you done with the gang stuff? And I said, yeah. I said, well, we're going to send you to a prison where you don't have to worry about that anymore. It's A prison yard where there's no gang members. And I was like, I didn't really kind of believe. I didn't think they would do that. But they were like, yeah, we're going to send you to, you know, Arrow Heights, which is a non active yards. That was almost, that was a gift, you know, because you know, I thought that, well, any other prison I went to, I would have been probably attacked, you know, for making that choice. And I came here and once I got here, I started. That's when I started that the gang threat's not here anymore. They're all just ex gang members of people trying to get out of the gangs. So none of the gang kind of politics exist here at this prison because everybody that's any affiliation or active in any kind of gang is not here. So it's all just people who are not gang members and they have number of programs and jobs you can take. And so as soon as I got here, that's what I did. I spent the better part of the seven years that I've been here and just working on. I took Toastmasters and I became a part of the club there. And I would talk to these people like these drug. Well they're not drug addicts, but they reformed drug addicts, I guess you could say. Talking to the guys that are just coming in, speaking about how I changed my life, that kind of stuff and how it's a benefit, we start doing better and I started getting involved in all these kind of reentry programs and trying to build these gang intervention programs. And so that's what I've been doing since I've been here. I started just building on that and bettering myself, taking every program I could possibly take and trying to make up for all those years that were lost when I was lost and all that gang stuff.
- [33:32]
E
When you left the gang and you said, you know, I'm out and then they were moving you to another prison, were you kept sort of in solitary until you left or.
- [33:39]
D
Yeah, well, I was already in solitary confinement because I was in that ride that happened. Yeah, just because I was a part of that game, they took me and they originally, this was. They originally said that I was involved and they had rolled me up with all these infractions. But I was standing with a bunch of group of other guys under a camera. And because I was standing on that camera when I went to my hearing, I said, look, I know your officer said they seen me directly involved. But look, just look at this camera right here. I'm standing right There and laying off the ground when that's going on. And sure enough, they seen it and they dismissed all those infractions. Then they were like, okay, well, we're gonna release you. But they. Then I had to wait in there to get transferred over here. So I didn't actually go back to that actual prison line or prison yard. I went to this one. So I had to wait there to get transferred over here. So I was three months in that hole over there before they sent me over here.
- [34:23]
E
Were you quite happy to be staying in the hole while you waited for your transfer?
- [34:28]
D
I assumed that they were just going to let me out because they dismissed it for actions. But the strange thing is, when I was in the hole, that some of the guys that I had known that were part of that gang were talking to me still. They were all. A bunch of them are still in there. And because of that, right? One of them was like. I told him, I said, look, they're gonna send me to this yard. And he was like, oh, well, they got a hole there. I said, no. And I told him, it's. It's a. It's basically a yard where there's, you know, where you're leaving the gang stuff. And he kind of took a kind of side of, you know, and he was like, look, man, you've done already too much, you know? I mean, you've been in prison for a long time. They just go over there and chill, you know? I mean, just go home, you know? Another one kind of was like, oh, no, you should do that, man. You gotta. You know, you. You got to keep on going. You got to fight with the gang. I said, I'm done with it. So there was a. There was kind of a large group of them that still spoke to me. There was a mixture of individuals that didn't like it. There's other ones that had been down for a long time that knew me for years. Look, bro, you just go do your thing, man. They didn't want to see me in prison no more or dealing with all that stuff. But had I been released to any of those yards, I would have had to fight or get jumped by even these people that were part of my gang, and it wouldn't have been good. You know what I mean? If I go right now, like they picked up right now and take me to one of those yards, I'll get attacked right off the bat, coming straight here. Rather than having to be going to the line. Some people had those kind of journeys where they went back and got jumped and then someone got stabbed and beat up pretty bad, then got here. That kind of stuff. You know, some individuals had that kind of journey. Lucky for me, for whatever reason, I didn't have to face all that. And I'm grateful for it because it would have been. It wouldn't have been good. You know, you can't win against four or five people. No matter what, if one of them has a knife or something, you're definitely not gonna win. You have one minute remaining.
- [36:08]
E
And that wraps up the first installment of part six of my chat with Evaristo Salas Jr. In part two of this episode, Junior and I will discuss his eventual release and the inevitable struggles of the real world. While he grown up inside prison, the world outside has continued to evolve and change. I feel like every time I talk to someone, I'm like, okay, you know? You know, you feel like you've heard it all and then you hear more stories and it's just like shocking.
- [36:37]
D
I almost feel like I'm talking to my therapist. Like I'm a therapist releasing all all my traumatic events and telling the dream.
- [36:43]
E
Next time on 1 minute remaining. 1 minute remaining is mash pumpkin production produced, hosted and created by Jack Lawrence. Editing and sound design by Jack Lawrence and Dom Evans. This show is part of the ACAST creator network.
- [37:10]
B
Now more people than ever can bring in their bill for a better deal at Verizon. Got AT&T or T Mobile? We got you Xfinity or Spectrum. You too. So tell your friends, your family, your quirky neighbor, Jeff, grab your megaphone and yell it from the rooftop. Get a better deal at Verizon because chances are anyone in shouting distance is included. Bring in your at&t t Mobile, Xfinity or Spectrum bill and we'll give you a better deal on the best network. Come by Verizon today. Best network based on rootmetrics. Best overall mobile network performance. US 2nd half 2025. All rights reserved. Must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.
- [37:40]
I
For a small business owner, every day is full of surprises. Some great, some not so great, like when a client cancels their order at the last minute. But here's a surprise you will like. Progressive provides small business owners with 30 customizable coverage options to help keep their business going strong. So go ahead, surprise yourself. Get a quote in as little as 8 minutes@progressivecommercial.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates and third party insurers. Coverage is not available in all states or for all vehicles and coverage selections.
- [38:12]
D
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [38:20]
B
Hello everyone.
- [38:20]
F
Sarah Lane here with Roger Chang. Hey Roger.
- [38:23]
E
Hello everyone.
- [38:25]
F
And Tom Merritt.
- [38:26]
D
Hey everybody.
- [38:27]
F
We wanted to give you a big update we're very excited about on our weekly product review series called Live With It.
- [38:35]
J
Yes, Live with it started as an occasional DTNs segment for our patrons over at patreon.com DTNs but because of such great feedback, we we decided to open it up as a standalone show with even more reviewers and a wider range of products.
- [38:50]
G
And now, because of even greater feedback
- [38:52]
D
we've gotten since then, we're giving Live
- [38:54]
E
with it its own YouTube channel. Yay.
- [38:57]
J
It's still produced by the DTNS family of folks and friends. Nothing changes. Content wise, we'll be reviewing all the tech products, services and platforms that we think you'll care about.
- [39:05]
F
We are also leaning on all of you, our community, for ideas and suggestions. Are you thinking about a new smart speaker, Robo vacuum modular laptop, kitchen gadget, or a software purchase for your next creative project? We'll live with it so you stay informed. We've also heard you like our show to be easier to access on YouTube and especially easier for new subscribers to find us. So that's exactly what we're doing. Can't wait for you to join us for the next round of episodes. Subscribe now.
- [39:40]
D
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcast everywhere. Acast.
- [39:46]
E
Com.