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- [00:01]
Bleacher Report Announcer
The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time, scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.
- [00:30]
Strawberry Me Career Coach
Let's be completely honest. Are you happy with your job? The fact is, a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never really wanted in the first place. But we stick it out and we give reasons. Like what if the next move is worse? And I've put years into this place and maybe the most common one. Isn't everyone miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry Me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you get from where you are to where you want to be, either at your existing job or by helping you find a new one. Your coach helps clarify your goals, creates a plan and keeps you accountable along the way. Go to Strawberry Me Career and get 50% off your first coaching session. That's Strawberry Me Career.
- [01:27]
Sean Langan
Acast Powers the World's Best Podcasts here's the show that we recommend. Hi, I'm Pace Case.
- [01:35]
Strawberry Me Career Coach
And I'm Bachelor Clues.
- [01:37]
Sean Langan
We host Game of Roses, the world's best reality TV podcast. We're covering every show on reality TV at the highest level possible. We analyze the Bachelor Love Is Blind, Perfect Match, Vanderpump, and anything else you find yourself watching with wine and popcorn.
- [01:52]
Strawberry Me Career Coach
We break down errors, highlight plays, MVPs, and all the competitive elements that make reality TV a sport. And we interview superstar players like Bachelorette Kaitlyn Bristow and Big Brother champion Taylor Hale.
- [02:03]
Sean Langan
If you want to know so much about reality TV, you can turn any casual conversation into a PhD level dissertation. You definitely want to check out Game of Roses. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
- [02:30]
Podcast Host
Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. Now, if you're a movie buff, you will probably recognize those words from the movie Shawshank Redemption, spoken by the character Red, a lifer who's seen too many men crushed by false hope. For those who haven't seen it, firstly, watch it tonight and thank me later. But essentially it's the story of a man named Andy Dufresne, a man wrongfully convicted of a murder who ends up in prison surrounded by men who've spent decades behind bars. Men whose hopes of freedom have been dashed time and time again. Failed appeals denied parole, doors slammed in their faces over and over until hope itself becomes the enemy. I've covered this topic extensively on my other podcast, One Minute Remaining. Speaking with real life prisoners who, like those characters, have spent decades fighting for their freedom. And what they tell me again and again is that hope is exhausting. You get your hopes up, you see the light at the end of the tunnel, and then that door shuts again and again until hope stops being a comfort and starts being cruel. After weeks in captivity, with the very real possibility that his only way out was in a body bag, Sean Langan was dealing with that same double edged sword, hope.
- [04:04]
Singer / Musician
War. In my mind I'm trying to fight a war in my mind I don't know who's the winner tonight but it ain't.
- [04:19]
Podcast Host
Chapter seven. Hello, Channel four switchboard. So at this stage, Sean and I have been talking for nearly three hours and we were deep into his story of captivity. The fear, the uncertainty, the psychological warfare. And then Sean asked if we could step outside so he could have a cigarette and keep the conversation going. I said, of course. Though I was immediately worried about one thing.
- [04:50]
Sean Langan
You might need that shot. Leave that in so people know I've walked out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, will it ruin your continuity if we now keep filming outside?
- [05:01]
Podcast Host
No, we can do it outside. Just the only thing I'm worried about is the noise of the bird, that's all.
- [05:04]
Sean Langan
What's funny, actually, the bird sound. Yeah, that was the sound I remember most in Ukraine.
- [05:10]
Podcast Host
It's so funny you should say that because it's one of the things that literally caught my ear watching that as well. For everyone listening, of course, your most recent documentary, you went to cover the Ukrainian Russian war, which we'll sort of talk about later on. But yeah, while you're watching that, there's like bombs dropping, gunfire and, and just birdsong, which, like it literally. That's one of the things that really caught my attention because you don't expect that.
- [05:32]
Sean Langan
Yeah. So. Well, the literary mythology, you know, bird song is linked to World War I. In the trenches, there was no bird song. They only hear the bird song after guns fall and there I was in eastern Ukraine and it's. It's like being back in the Sommer. It's the weirdest, most disturbing place I'd been to. But what surprised me most, and where these literature movies have got it wrong, the birds didn't go full silent in their barrages and their artillery shells. I mean, the sound was so disturbing because your whole body. But the bird song, really weird. Anyway,
- [06:15]
Podcast Host
it's one of those strange contradictions of war. Nature doesn't stop. Birds keep singing even when humans are destroying each other. Shaun had captured that perfectly in his latest documentary, where, again, he was on the front lines of another war, recording the sounds of songbirds on the front lines while shells fell in the distance. But we'll talk more about Ukraine later, because, yes, even after he was kidnapped and managed to survive, that he would go back.
- [06:56]
Sean Langan
The most worrying part for me was there had been no negotiations for weeks, months at the beginning, which is why I was terrified, because if there's negotiations, you know, they want money. And that was when they were checking the security. How on earth had I got so close to them? Then negotiations, we were told, has started and hopes were raised. That's when I realized, going back to earlier points, the need to batten down the hatches, because when you can see light at the end of the tunnel, it's really dangerous, because when it doesn't happen, you collapse. And when. So when they told me negotiations were starting, I raised my hopes. I took out the photos of my children. And then we heard it collapsed and it'd gone wrong. I hit rock bottom. But one day, the charming commander came into the room with a sat phone and he said, oh, look, negotiations have gone down. So we want you to call Channel 4, your broadcaster, and tell them, you know, if we. If they don't pay a ransom, we're going to kill you. Being this charming guy, he put his arm around me, he said, don't, don't worry, we. We're not really going to kill you. We tell them that all the time. That's how we negotiate.
- [08:15]
Podcast Host
So by this stage, Sean was well over two months into his captivity, having not been permitted to leave his cell. It meant that the only daylight he'd seen in that two months was through the small crack in which he drank his tea each morning. So he's taken outside into the bright sunlight.
- [08:34]
Sean Langan
I step out into daylight for the first time into this compound, and it's a small compound, mud walls, a few animals in the courtyard. But it was the daylight and I've Been in darkness. So I looked down first of all because it was. I could. The sunlight was blinding me and I looked down. I'd lost a lot of weight. I had malnutrition in there, mainly through lack of vitamin D, I think from light vitamin C. So my. I'd lost five teeth. I look at my skin and it was. I'd lost so much weight. It was like a parchment paper stretched over bone. I could see. But I was covered in bites, flea bites and mite. There was like dust mites in the room. Just looked terrible. But then I look up at this, the scenery. And the Hindu Kush is like the. The mountains, the snow cap peaks. And I could see the Hindu Kush, the lights very. There's no pollution. So you can see the thin line where the. Almost the edge of the atmosphere. And I'm looking up going, wow, it's like my life, you know, it's. It's stunningly beautiful, but it's. It's like any moment, that thin line, you know, between this and death. And I'm just thinking how beautiful the world is. And then he's like, here you go. Here's the sat phone call, Channel four. And it was a lovely Afghan moment. He's a real business. He says, look, it's a pay as you go. I've paid $50 credit, so don't, don't take forever. Yeah, get on with quick. Who's worried about the $50? I'm like, okay. I suddenly realized I don't have the phone number of my Boss at Channel 4. I don't know, so. But I know the switchboard number. Channel 4 TV. So I ring up the switchboard and wait, looking at the beautiful horizon. How exquisite and fragile life is. And then I suddenly hear the connection and a voice. Beautiful. Where it was to my ears. Hello, Channel four switchboard. And I just started crying because I could hear this voice. It was like enveloping me in her warm embrace.
- [10:40]
Podcast Host
It's home.
- [10:41]
Sean Langan
And then I'm suddenly back to English. Oh, it's a bit of an old course. And I don't know how to explain this to someone at switchboard. So I went, oh, I apologize. I'm really sorry. Bit weird to call this. My name's Sean Langan. I work for Tall. I've been kidnapped by the Taliban. You think that would fucking get. Do it. But there's a long pause. How do you spell Sean Langan? And I go, se. Sorry, I'm on a sat phone as pairs.
- [11:19]
Podcast Host
You go, he's got 50 bucks here. We got to get on with this.
- [11:24]
Sean Langan
Can you put me through to the head of News and Current Affairs? How many Sean Langans have you got kidnapped? You know, just put me through. And she goes, hold the line. And then I get voicemail. Hi, you've reached the voicemail of head of Mutant Affairs. Please leave a message. So I get off that, and I realized it shows on the phone. I've got like $10 left or $15. And I say to this Afghan commander who'd been very charming, don't worry, we're not going to kill you. He's like, he's never seen this before when he's clearly kidnapped others. And so I'm via my translator, who's having a nervous breakdown at this point, trying to explain, and there is no passion word for voicemail. And he's like, what the fuck is voicemail? And he. And he pulls the he. Rat says, the AK47, points it. I mean, he says, don't these foreign fuckers get it? We kill people, call them back. So no longer is this. We're all this in together. I've now got a gun. I call switchboards. And, you know, there's usually about 10 people on switchboard. It's the same woman. She goes, hi, Channel four switchboards. I'm like, there you go. I don't mean to freak you out, but the Taliban guy's got guns. I mean, he's threatened to kill me or the things there. Just please put me through. And whatever happens, if I get voicemail, just put me through to someone. Make sure it's not voicemail. Putting you straight through now. And I get here, click, hi, you've reached the voicemail. And then I run out of credit. Phone line goes dead. All I see is this. And it's just. And I duck. And I look down, thinking, he shot my poor fixer. He hadn't. He shot over the head. But. And he was. The Taliban commander was so shocked by this, he was like. And he looked at me, he said, someone wants you dead. This has never happened before. And he, like, something's gone wrong. And he left the compound. We went back into the cell. And that was then the hardest time, because you think you're about to be free.
- [13:47]
Podcast Host
So we should clear up the situation regarding the poor lady on the switchboard, because it turns out she wasn't purposefully putting Shawn through to voicemail continuously and ignoring his request to speak to someone. She was doing as she was told.
- [14:01]
Sean Langan
Months later, I found out what happened. Poor woman was in counseling. The woman at Channel four switchboard. Of course she knew who I was, because they didn't have any other Shawn Lang and kidnapped the company they'd hired. The private security company had advised Channel 4 if I could call with the Taliban not to answer because that's often when kidnappers will say, if you don't pay, we're going to cut off a finger. And they use that. And so you. Their advice was, you don't take the calls. This poor woman, exactly who I was, could hear me pleading. I still think to this day. I met the hostage negotiators and I'm like, I'm glad you felt confident with that poker move because it could have gone wrong my end. But that was the advice of the poor woman. Had been told not to take the call.
- [14:50]
Podcast Host
Did you know how long you've been there for? And you were well aware of tracking time and days?
- [14:56]
Sean Langan
As I said, I broke my time into routine to survival exercise, prayer, reflection, take my kids to lunch. But there's no good saying, I'll take them to a nice restaurant because that uses up a minute of time. Yeah. So you think, where am I taking them? What are we eating? I would take my children on holiday but have very detailed breakdown. Okay, we go to Florida. Do I go Virgin Airlines or ba? You escape from the room. And I didn't do the cross. My fixer did that literally with a nail on the wall. And I could see how this passage of time was driving him insane because the Taliban would say, right, we're going to go off and check to see if your spies. We're going to do an investigation, and when we come back, you're either dead or you're alive. But waiting for someone to come back who was always late, he would say, I'm coming back on Wednesday. And you'll know then whether you're going to be killed or not. Well, that's. Waiting for your own death. And then he's late is just maddening. So I would not think of time. I was aware of it, though, but I wouldn't be so focused. I'd focus on my daily routine, bonding with the families. But I would hear the radio, so I knew how long we'd been in there.
- [16:14]
Bleacher Report Announcer
The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about. About staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.
- [16:44]
Strawberry Me Career Coach
Let's be completely honest. Are you happy with your job? The fact is, a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never really wanted in the first place. But we stick it out and we give reasons, like, what if the next move is worse? And I've put years into this place and maybe the most common one. Isn't everyone miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry Me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you get from where you are to where you want to be, either at your existing job or by helping you find a new one. Your coach helps clarify your goals, creates a plan and and keeps you accountable along the way. Go to Strawberry Me Career and get 50% off your first coaching session. That's Strawberry Me Career.
- [17:40]
Podcast Host
Chapter 8 what is the life expectancy of a white Western man dressed as a woman? So where Shaun and his fixer are being held wasn't some sort of Haqqani prison camp. It was a large Pashtun family home living there was a grandmother and a grandfather, three or four of their sons, plus their wives. The family had been told by the Haqqanis that Shaun and his fixer were spies, not believers. They were bad men. Now, as Shaun has mentioned, over his years working in these areas, he's learned their customs and how to conduct yourself around them. And so his greatest weapon was to bond with this family, to show them he was just another human like them.
- [18:28]
Sean Langan
During the captivity, after the initial being told you're kidnapped, it then settled into routine. But that, you know, where I was spent every day bonding with the family and every time they came in. Because here's the thing I discovered in all my travels. In regions where they be fighting the west, there's this always wherever you go, especially in that part of the world, a real love, hate, fascination with our world. I think we've burned through this good will from the world towards the West. But whether it's the BBC or our democracy and human rights people and our movies and culture, there was a great pool of, around the world of, of admiration and a connection to that, you know, the beacon on The Hill. They once described America. So I don't think it's called that anymore of the values are universal values. So. And of course, in that part of the world, they love the BBC. They listened to the BBC World Service. So at night when the family came in initially would hated me, looked down at me. I would tell them stories about life in the west and they were fascinated. Couldn't. You know, I told them about the London Underground. They thought I was like there'd be dragons, you know. I told them about the London Eye and they thought I'd made it all up. But we bonded and I never forget one night talking and I felt I was on stage the whole time. And a baby cries outside and I. I got my hand in the air just, just, just gesticulating about some story. And then I hear this baby crying. I close my hand and say that's the sound all babies make around the world. And they cry.
- [20:06]
Podcast Host
This bonding that he was doing with the family would eventually have a pivotal moment, a moment that Sha, to this day still struggles to talk about.
- [20:21]
Sean Langan
Probably the pivotal moment in bonding with the family came about just by chance of the Taliban commander. Had a list of questions we were. He was given that we had to answer. And he's like 28 questions. And you really felt you. It was an exam. Got the questions answers wrong. Your life depended on it. But a lot of the questions were proof of life. This is for them to negotiate and it allows them to kill you and still get a ransom because they, they get all the work. Like your favorite pet as a child where you grew up sort of thing. A hostage negotiator would ask. So I was aware a lot of the interrogation questions were what's them Getting proof of life information, the names of my school, other stuff they were interrogating, wanting to know what I knew about security matters in that part of the world military. So I don't know anything. So they came in one night and it was the Taliban commander, two armed Taliban. And the family of the house was for five men all sitting there at night. So we're sitting on the carpet. The women who I never saw, but they became very part of my life as well because I could hear them. And as. As time wore on and the family came to my. On my side, I would hear the women outside sing. But also the food got much better because they heard I had malnutrition from their husbands. And they made a real effort. They would walk miles to get some fresh vegetables. And so. But they were an unseen part of this but one night, the Taliban commander was saying, right, well, you didn't. You didn't answer all the questions we'd given you. And I said, yeah. He said, the two you didn't answer the names of your children. What are the names of your children which they would need for proof of life. You know, if. My negotiator saying, what's the names of his children? We all know if Sean's alive. And for some reason, I couldn't divulge the names of my children because they were part of my survival, my little space, which I kept. Because you're. You're talking. When they say your safe space is being violated, I mean, it is. You're being violated physically and psychologically. You've got. No. When you're stripped serves and things. But I had these children, and I couldn't bring their names into this situation. You know, I got. He was 4 and 3, and I just found myself sitting there saying, I'm English again, I'm terribly sorry, I can't give you the names of my children. And the Taliban commander, who needs. He said, no, no, you've got to. We've been ordered. I've been ordered to get the names, and if you don't, I've been ordered to shoot you. And I just found myself, no fear of being shot. I'd made peace with my death, but just physically unable to say the names of my children. And I said, I. I'm so sorry. I. And I was genuinely sorry. I can't help you. And I really want to help you. And I said, you know, I wouldn't ask a passion man the name of his wife, but I can't tell you because I don't want to bring such light innocence into this dark business. And so they. Guy put a gun to my head, said, you got to. And so the. And now the family are watching this, and they've been told he's an unbeliever, he's a spy. And so the Taliban's got its gun to my head, and I just say, I'm sorry, you'll have to shoot me. I can't. I literally can't give the name. And I could see the commander panic because now he's like, oh, well, this guy wants to be shot. So they put the gun on my fixer's head, say, well, we'll shoot him. And he starts crying. Of course I can't now. I'm not going to withhold the name. So I'm like. But I. I am so angry. And I remembered, you know, My, my first film about the Norwegian who was beheaded for accusing. And I was very careful never to accuse the Taliban of being un Islamic. But I couldn't help myself, had this righteous anger them mainly but myself giving up the name. So I went kind of the accusation said okay, my. You want my children's name. My firstborn eldest son is called Luke. And my second born and it was the day before his birthday, this day, this night. And I'm having to. So that. That his birthday was like the longest day of my life missing it so but this is the night before his birthday. And I said that was a reminder how it you're always back in that room. So I said my youngest son's called Gabriel, as in the Archangel Gabriel. And Tomorrow he turns 4 and he's got to wonder if his father loves him because he hasn't called. The whole room goes quiet because. Gabriel is the Archangel Gabriel who brought down the Quran to the Prophet. That's in Islamic belief. And so when I said. And I said and you want his son. My son is called second son's called Gabriel. And I said I seen the Archangel Gabriel. The whole room went silent and all the men who'd been told this guy's a spy and an unbeliever just looked and I started crying like I am now, but it was anger and they all just put their heads down and stop. They started crying because here, here is someone who's there. The Taliban have told them it's an unbeliever, but he's named his second son of the most holy name in Islam. And not only is he named his second son an Islamic name, he's also prepared to die rather than give it up. And that was not what they've been told about Westerners. And so the Taliban commander lost faith which was a dangerous point for me because you don't want to ever in that situation them to lose faith. He didn't know what to do and he left the room. And at that point the family then stood up and and had a talk amongst themselves and in front of the Taliban offered me tribal protection. I mean they broke from the Taliban and tribe. It's called Pana. Tribal protection is they didn't believe the Taliban but it's dangerous for them to go against Amber. So they offered me panna which meant I could not be killed whilst I was in their house and I was a guest and I couldn't leave the house without some promise that I wouldn't be killed. So it was a big change. And that came from this connection and bonding. So that thrived me. And that's why they then later gave me a telephone to use, because they. They were now on my side.
- [27:40]
Podcast Host
It's now been three months at this point of Shaun's captivity. He's malnourished, suffering from the lack of vitamin D and living in darkness. And mentally, he's shot to pieces when all of a sudden he's chucked on yet another emotional roller coaster when he would be presented with the Taliban court's decision on what will happen to him.
- [28:02]
Sean Langan
So negotiations have gone bad. There was a point where they asked me to convert. There's a muller being brought in. And I. And I said to them, this was after the call to channel four, and the owner of the house is there, who I'd now bonded with. I said, look, if you're going to execute me, I've got a slight. Being English, slight problem having my throat cut. Do you mind if I'm shot? And they discussed that with the Muller. I went, yeah, yeah, you. It's not going to happen. But you, you. We can shoot you. And I said, I'd like you to shoot me, because I liked him. And he cried when I. So that was the kind of situation because we were waiting for the commander to come back with news or whether. Because negotiations have broken down, the family were asking me to convert, worried that the news was going to be being killed. So we're having conversations. Then the commander comes back in, and I got to give it to this guy. He's got a dramatic flare. This guy comes in and he sits us down. He's not bearing gifts anymore, but he's got a sheaf of paper with the court's hearings. The finest of the court, the shura. They call it the Taliban court. They have all this kind of formality to a kidnap to justify that in their mind. Mind. They're. They're not just terrorists. This is a movement, Islamic movement. So we sit down. I'm in court, you know, at judgment, and there's the Taliban commander, his men and the family. And he opens the scroll. Now, at this point, it's three and a half months. I've lost weight, malnutrition. I'm sitting there and I. I'm so battered by the whole recent. And living with death. So you're sitting there, not much left straight there. And he. He reads out the court's finding. I never heard little reading glasses as well, like the. The owl judge. And he says, the Taliban shura hereby finds you innocent of all charges. And I I literally, I remember, like, going, thank God for that. And I sort of sit back and I'm just letting that good news, I'm innocent wash over me. And then he says, but the Shura voted to kill you anyway to send a message to other journalists not to try. And this is the roller coaster. I'm like, wait, wait, what? I thought I was innocent. So now he's just told me, we're going to kill you. Oh, no. And he pauses the drummer. And then he says, but don't worry, me and the Emir Srirakhani, we vetoed the sh. So you are free to go. I. I didn't laugh at this point. I could, but I was just like, one minute you're innocent, next minute we're gonna kill you. But no, you're innocent. And I was just like, whatever they find, they read out the ruling of the commander, the Taliban judge, on my fixer, and he is found guilty. And they say, but we're not going to kill you. But we didn't believe them. We thought, oh, well, they. Because they don't want to kill him here. They can't.
- [31:23]
Podcast Host
You could forgive him for being a little selfish and just wanting to get home as quickly as possible. However, at the start of his ordeal, along alongside his fixer, his friend, he made a promise and a promise he was intending on keeping.
- [31:42]
Sean Langan
We would either both live or both die. That I wouldn't leave without him because that was really preying on his mind. Because there would be another instance where Western journalists been kidnapped. A ransom had been paid and the local journalists fixer was killed. And a good friend of ours, and especially my fixes the year before, being kidnapped with an Italian journalist. The Italians paid for his ransom and the Taliban killed him. And the Taliban were aware that didn't make them look good. And they said to us, don't worry, it won't be like that case with the Italian. You're either both killed or you're both here. But I promised that I wouldn't abandon my fixer if Channel 4 got me out. So we had to be separated. I'm putting a burqa, cheap pattern, plastic leather shoes, ladies shoes. And they drove me down the mountain. We get out in this bazaar, the market full of Arab terrorists and Taliban, and we have to change cars. And I'm now wearing a burqa. They. They get me to sit on the side of the road and they say, wait here, we're going to switch cars. And they just try and sit like a lady. And I'm sitting on the side of the road, like, how does a woman sit in a burqa? And the ridiculousness. Here I'm on the side of the street going. And then I. I realized, my God, not only are they in purda that they're not free to walk around. People can't see the woman's face. I didn't know this until you wear a burka. The filament is so fine you can't see the world. So even you're in jail, but in this perder. But you can't even see out. I had to squint because it was so fine. I'm like. As I'm squinting I see 15 fighters come right towards me, Arabs with like guns. I'm like, what is the life expectancy of a white Western male dressed as a woman on the side of the road in the tri. I'd be like, but what saved me was that they don't look at women. So they walked right by me.
- [33:54]
Podcast Host
Ah, didn't even clock you not looking at me.
- [33:57]
Sean Langan
And I'm like trying to sit there like I'm invisible. And that saved me. And when we. I'm back in the car. I'm now just like dead or alive, I don't know. Driven back to Pakistan. 10 hours. I'm now in a second safe house and it was full of wounded Taliban and some. Two guys who were pouring me like touched me like that. And I'm just. That was my last 12 hours a night it was like with wounded soldiers and these people who were severely mentally damaged pat me like a. And I'm like, now you're holding on but you, you've only got so much left. And then it comes to the exchange and the Taliban's on the phone and I can hear them discussing and he's talking English. We've got the package. Have you got the delivery money or something? And I'm aware it's talking about one package. And I. And I've made this vow to my fixer with I won't abandon you. So I say I, I don't. I refuse to be exchanged. I. I'm. It's either both of us you either get release my fixer in me or it I'm. You might as well kill me. And I turn my back on him and he's there. This is some guy hunting. But it's the most dangerous time for the terrorists. The exchange is where you're most likely to get ambushed by army. So there. This whole thing is now hanging on a thread. And of course they can force me or shoot me. But I turn my back and I never forget. I sort of just praying to God and I. And I'm aware I've got 10 seconds of fake courage. I can only keep this up because every bone, every sinew in my body wants to be released and see my children. So I'm gonna, I can't keep this up, up for long and. But I say no, I'm not going. And luckily he's looking at me. I can see in his eyes, I, I don't need this trouble. And he gets on the phone to his guys, all right, release the fixer. And he says to my hot, the Americans, it was okay, we got two packages and, and were released. So they released me and my fixer. And I never forget, I'm bundled, bundled out the back of a car in Peshaw. They take the hood and there's this large American older man. He was my host. And he smiles, he says, he shakes my hand, he says, welcome home, sir.
- [36:34]
Podcast Host
Chapter nine, A precious lesson in life. So, of course the physical ordeal is over. The captivity and the ever looming threat of being killed is done. But now the next challenge begins. And that's the after.
- [36:52]
Sean Langan
Coming home is the hardest part of captivity by far. And that's why it's post traumatic stress order. You know, mid trauma. In any kind of trauma, including kidnap, your lower part of the brain, the instinct brain takes over. You're an autopilot. And so during my captivity, I never had dreams. Nightmares of beheading on death, put that out of my head. I think one night I was dreaming of having my throat cut. And in fact I woke up and it was a guy in black shawl with a knife. But when I came out, it was like that TV series, Homeland, the first episode, he can't sleep in a bed, he's crawled up. So if I felt so connected to my loved ones and to all living things during captivity, it was the opposite. When you come out, I disconnected completely. And unfortunately, you become an expert now at cauterizing emotions to survive. So you can also. It's very difficult to not cauterize them when you come out. So you feel cold, disconnected. I also, everything I'd been suppressing in the darkness of that room, now my brain instinctively knew I was in a safe place, started processing. So for three months, every night I'd be lying in bed, not dreaming, just seeing people being shot and beheaded. Violence, extreme violence playing out in my mind like, it's like a roll of film that spooling out. And it was the point where it had been a relief to shoot myself because it was exhausting. Three months of just seeing death again and again like a film. So there's a price to pay and. And people pick up the pieces, but it's not linear. You can feel okay, you know, there were great moments when I left for the next few years, I took my children on the real holidays. I'd imagine taking them on. They were equally as real and wonderful and dreamlike. You know, I'd be in Florida or Fairness with my kids. I took the Arctic Circle dog sledding. And that was the reality, was more dreamlike than how I'd imagined it might be. It was wonderful. But you're broken. It's like my fixer had his breakdown in captivity because he'd gone through this once before. I. I then was aware you have a breakdown when you come out because you're severely. You've been smashed to smithereens by this experience, and you've got to piece yourself together.
- [39:34]
Podcast Host
You think that after his ordeal, Shawn would be angry, resentful, and regretful of some of his decisions. However, he says no. In fact, the ordeal reminded him of many valuable lessons.
- [39:47]
Sean Langan
And here's the thing. I really don't regret it, because what it was, it really was to me a precious lesson in life of what important. And it's stuff we all know, but we forget, which is to be, if you're. Before you're married and have children, to be a good son or daughter to your parents. But it was very clear to me that my role and the meaning of life was to be a protector and a provider for my children, to give them love and. And then to protect and provide for the environment. That's also the meaning of life, is to protect and provide for your loved ones, your children, but also for the world we're living in, because the two are codependent, but also very strongly to help those less fortunate than yourself, because we are all connected, all living things. And how can we be happy when someone's suffering so acutely in Somalia or Gaza or Ukraine? And it just seemed patently clear to me in my captivity. That was the. What was shown to me that we're all family. And so that I. To learn that lesson, which is something I think we know of in childhood and we're taught but forget, was a great reminder and also the great pleasures, you know, I still today, because I was so loved. It was what I missed, you know, a nice meal with friends around the table, the companionship, friendship. So now I still get a lovely Deeper appreciation when I'm having a. Over Christmas, you know, with some friends, having a drink, family. So that's what I learned in captivity.
- [41:38]
Podcast Host
Sean was back spending time with his children, his family and friends, and putting himself back together, working on his ptsd. However, his experience wouldn't put a complete stop to his work because eventually he would go back to war and to the front lines, ready to tell another story in his documentary, Ukraine's War the Other side, where in typical Shaun fashion, he wanted to tell the other side of the story. So instead of joining the Ukrainians on the front line, he. He went and spent time with the Russians. Obviously, going somewhere like that when you're, I suppose, quote, unquote, a guest of the Kremlin, shall we say, or they knew you were there, the likelihood of you getting kidnapped and potentially beheaded is low. But you even have a dodgy moment where you go down, you're taken into some area to be shown NATO weapons that they'd taken, and then these special forces guys come down and it all gets very aggressive and very hairy, but you're still having those moments. So, I mean. I mean, are you just a little bit unhinged?
- [42:43]
Sean Langan
I love that. But you're right, not wrong. After my kidnap and I got ptsd, but actually what it was, I didn't stop going back. I was stopped by broadcast. Like, we're like, we're not sending this guy off to. Because there were lots of investigate when things go wrong. You know, I've been being given awards for what I was doing back then, and then you get kidnapped. Suddenly it's like, oh, he's a loose cannon. That was a bit irresponsible. Bound to happen. It's like, wait a minute. That actually made my PTSD worse. Because your reward for having been kidnapped and tortured is to remove what you love doing, and you're good at making documents. So I felt that. But here's a lesson I learned much later. At that point, I was with this. It's only a small community of war journalists around the world to do it for all the media. It's about, you know, a few hundred at most. Inevitably, I would have been sent to Syria to do isis, because that was the next go to. Without doubt, I would have been. And I look only recently, I look back and thought, well, thank God I was kidnapped by the Taliban, because they treated me relatively okay and I lived. If I had gone to Syria, which I would have done 100%, I would have been highly likely to been kidnapped like my friend Jim Foley and Tortured and beheaded by isis. And that really trains things for me. But that. But to answer your question is I stopped what I was doing because then I've got kids, I've put them through this once, can't do it again. So I did take. I didn't go back to war for 10 years, but my children are 21 now. Yeah, there are risks in it, but I was aware I wasn't quite pushing it like I used to. But my kids are so good about it as well. They're like, dad, you know, you're unhappy not being making your documentaries and they're now young men who understand they've got their interests in life and they would want to go off and fulfill their dreams. And so I, you know, I took limited risks. I thought in that situation in Ukraine.
- [44:48]
Podcast Host
It's interesting what you say there about what, you know, a missing part of the PTSD was sort of having that taken away from you because it's massive. Jason Fox, the former SAS guy or SBS guy, said actually a quote of his was, I think I'll butcher it. But it's something along the lines of. Of PTSD is realizing that you'll never feel as alive as you once did.
- [45:08]
Sean Langan
And it's funny because I absolutely loved. And that's where it's danger red flag. When I was back in Ukraine. Not back in Ukraine, in Ukraine for the first time. Absolutely loved the experience, whilst also being aware of how the tragedy and the suffering, but just being there, living life, seeing that thing is a privilege, you know, firsthand the people going through it, but trying to tell a story. Yeah, I felt cured of my ptsd.
- [45:41]
Podcast Host
He would also go back to the same region in which he found himself kidnapped. But this time would be the very last time.
- [45:49]
Sean Langan
Only once went to Syria. I went back to the Middle east after my kidnapped 10 years to interview two ISIS terrorists who kidnapped and beheaded my friend.
- [45:59]
Podcast Host
Oh my.
- [46:00]
Sean Langan
Jim Foley. And I hadn't been back to the Middle east since my own kidnap. And I mean Afghanistan's not the Middle east, but dealing with the same Islamic terrorist scenario. And when I crossed from Iraq into Syria, I threw up like pre match nerves. When you're an athlete before a big or football player before a big game. I threw up and this producer looks at me like, oh. And actually when I got into Syria I was like really jacked up again and I. That's where I realized, like, that's bad. That was me throwing up from adrenaline and I quite like this fear. Yeah, no, it's a different situation and that Put me off doing the kind of stuff I've been doing. You know, sitting down with my friends killers was a very difficult. But that was part of my process of closing that chapter. They. When I shook their hands, what was interesting, I was told, don't mention your friend of James Foley. But I couldn't help myself. And I told them first thing I said, I was shaking hands. I said, you know, I might as well tell you this. Your good friend, Jihadi John Muhammad. And Wazi killed my good friend, cut his head off. James Foley. Bizarrely, knowing that I'd been kidnapped. I knew the guy, I was a friend, but I've been in war zones. Somehow that made it easier for them to open up and they couldn't hold, couldn't stop themselves opening up to me, unlike when they've been debriefed by FBI or American military. And that was trauma, talking to trauma. Even though I had no empathy, sympathy for them, they had put trauma onto others, but they were carrying this trauma,
- [47:34]
Podcast Host
some sort of weird, weird common ground that you sort of found.
- [47:37]
Sean Langan
So that that was the one time I went back. But I don't want to go back there because was I put my kids through too much, but I. It messed me up.
- [47:48]
Podcast Host
So as we wrap up this incredible story and the first season of this podcast, Sean left me with some parting words that I feel are rather apt, especially for the state of the world as it is today. So I will leave it to him.
- [48:04]
Sean Langan
The overwhelming memories. I've got experiences of the common humanity and the kindness. Anywhere you go in the Middle east, strangers would give me food, shelter, the smiles, the laughter, and the life I lived. I lived 100 lifetimes of sharing common humanity, breaking bread with a guy in the middle of nowhere, in the mountain, from different worlds. It was such an intense privilege and pleasure. And of course, you know, we see the differences initially first. Very quickly, you spend time with anyone from anywhere in the world and the common humanity are shared. Humanity is what is really most strong. And it's maybe a cliche, but. So I go to these places. Not on the one hand, yes, I'm drawn there. And it's also. I know that's how I get a commission. I can't say to someone, will you give me money to make a film where everyone's having a lovely time?
- [49:08]
Podcast Host
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just doesn't work.
- [49:10]
Sean Langan
So the news. But I what I would still go there is because you feel so alive when you're sharing people's lives who are going through extreme circumstances, but it brings out the best in the people as well as the worst. And to. To be part of that, to experience our common humanity and the loves and the laughter and the sadness is a gift. And so I. I would recommend anyone, obviously, to avoid playing Russian roulette with their own life. That's a disregard for life, but oh my God. We don't want to shut ourselves off from the world and to go out in to the world. It's been the greatest joy of my life.
- [49:57]
Singer / Musician
This shouldn't come as a surprise, but I can't sleep. War in my mind I'm trying to fight a war in my mind I don't know who's the winner tonight, but it ain't me where are you now when my fears are worse than ever when the night goes on forever When I'm losing track of time where are you now When I need you more than ever? When I ain't got together Let me know just where you hide where are you now? Why aren't you holding me in the midnight hour Saying I'll be fine? Where are you now? Why aren't you here with me? It'll calm me down in the midnight it up. Stare into space it's blinding but I can't look away the stars connect a million ways But I see you ooh, I light you're away I'm reaching but I can't touch your face the dance is going to make me insane it's so cool where are you now when my fears are worse than ever? When the night goes on forever When I'm losing track of time where are you now When I need you more than ever? When I ain't got together Let me know just where you hide where are you now? Why aren't you holding me in the midnight hour Saying I'll be be fine where are you now? Why aren't you here with me in the midnight. Sam,
- [53:36]
Bleacher Report Announcer
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- [54:08]
Sean Langan
Acast Powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [54:15]
Podcast Host
Hey, guys. Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where we make fun of everything, but most importantly ourselves.
- [54:21]
Sean Langan
I'm Paige Desorbo.
- [54:22]
Singer / Musician
I'm Hannah Burner.
- [54:23]
Podcast Host
Welcome to the Squad.
- [54:24]
Sean Langan
Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time.
- [54:28]
Podcast Host
But of course we can't be managed,
- [54:30]
Sean Langan
so we decided to start start this podcast to continue giggling.
- [54:33]
Podcast Host
We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests.
- [54:42]
Sean Langan
Listen to Giggly Squad on ACAST or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.