The tiktok Fugitive Part 2

Summary

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Podcast Summary: What I Survived

Episode: The TikTok Fugitive – Part 2

Host: Jack Laurence
Guest: Chad Hauer
Release Date: March 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

In "The TikTok Fugitive – Part 2," host Jack Laurence continues the harrowing story of Chad Hauer—a man who went from being a Microsoft contractor and father, to someone wanted by the FBI for kidnapping. Through candid firsthand accounts, the episode highlights not just the devastating personal cost of a high-conflict custody battle, but escalates to wrongful kidnapping charges, Interpol red notices, and international arrest. With detailed narration and direct testimony, this episode explores the fallout from a broken marriage when legal systems clash and parents go to war.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Digital Search for a Missing Son

• Chad’s Investigation:
  After his ex-wife disappears with their son, Chad uses every resource available:
  • Old-school methods: requesting family to scan and fax maps (03:38)
  • Searching for towns with “Cherry” in the name in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York (03:44)
  • Contacting multiple schools, faxing proof of paternity, until he locates "Cherry Tree Elementary" (05:22)
• Breakthrough:
  "Yeah, your son's been enrolled here since this day in September 2004. Like, bingo." – Chad Hauer (05:22)

2. The First Confrontation at School

• Barriers:
  School staff, convinced by Chad’s ex-wife that he intended to kidnap their son, required a court order and police officer presence before allowing a supervised visit.
• Address Discovery:
  Chad obtains his ex-wife’s address from school records, finally enabling official legal action (05:58).

3. Courtroom Dramas and Jurisdiction Battles

• Pennsylvania Court Ruling:
  Judge finds the mother guilty of kidnapping, orders the child be given to Chad until a Tennessee ruling (06:33). The mother resists but police enforce the order.
• Repeated Delays:
  The saga continues with the mother dragging out the process, resisting every new order—especially over passport applications and handovers (09:38–10:05).
• Quotes:
  "She's like, I'm not giving him up. So he ordered the police to take him away from her and gave him to me." – Chad Hauer (06:57)

4. Tennessee Custody Hearings

• Reasoning:
  Chad explains why he originally allowed the mother primary custody: his job required travel, and his new wife was unprepared for parenting a young child (08:04).
• New Proposals:
  Chad seeks extended overseas visitation rights; the judge grants summer custody to Chad (08:26).
  "The judge is like...I’m not ready to send an American child overseas yet, but for the summer I am. That’s fair.” – Chad Hauer (09:28)

5. Ongoing Parental Obstruction and Missed Flights

• Manipulation:
  At every turn, the mother stalls and blocks travel arrangements, refusing to send their son back despite clear orders and warnings from judges (12:24).
• Judicial Finality:
  After repeated violations, custody is finally transferred to Chad; Alex moves overseas with his father (13:47).

6. International Snags and Loss of Contact

• Custodial Arrangements:
  Despite past events, Chad honors the mother’s summer visitation and even covers flights (14:21).
• Communication Drops:
  Letters are returned, phones disconnected, and the mother moves away. Chad has no contact with his son during the summer visit (17:18).
• Legal Limbo:
  Conflicting court orders in Pennsylvania and Tennessee prevent Chad from sending his son back, fearing more legal retaliation (15:37, 17:18).

7. Escalation: Kidnapping Allegations and FBI Involvement

• Criminal Accusations:
  Chad is falsely accused of forcibly entering and kidnapping his son (17:55).
  "My mom gets a phone call from the Pennsylvania State Police saying that I came into her house and kidnapped him." – Chad Hauer (17:55)
• Web Alert:
  His son appears on the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children’s website, signaling a new level of seriousness (18:58).

8. The Interpol Red Notice and Arrest in Bulgaria

• Surprise Arrest:
  While at an international conference, Chad learns he is now wanted by Interpol and the FBI due to a federal grand jury indictment—initiated without his knowledge and based on his ex-wife’s testimony (21:09–22:54).
• Memorable Quote:
  "We'd been out of speaker dinner the night before...I got a knock at the door...In my underwear and there's four...They pull up badges...We're here because of Interpol notice because you kidnapped somebody." – Chad Hauer (21:09)
• American Grand Jury Criticism:
  Chad details the problematic nature of U.S. grand juries:
  "A federal judge...said the statement says, in a grand jury, you can indict a ham sandwich because everybody just wants to go home." – Chad Hauer (23:13)
• Evidence:
  The only ‘evidence’ was the missing child poster and ex-wife’s testimony (23:56).

9. Life in a Bulgarian Prison

• Conditions:
  "There were cockroaches like crazy. We couldn't sleep because a cockroach was crawled all over us." – Chad Hauer (24:18)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | | --- | --- | --- | | 05:22 | "Yeah, your son's been enrolled here since this day in September 2004. Like, bingo." | Chad Hauer | | 06:57 | "She's like, I'm not giving him up. So he ordered the police to take him away from her and gave him to me." | Chad Hauer | | 09:28 | "The judge is like...I’m not ready to send an American child overseas yet, but for the summer I am. That’s fair.” | Chad Hauer | | 12:24 | "He told her, he says, listen, young lady, if this child’s not on the plane, I am transferring custody." | Chad Hauer | | 17:55 | "My mom gets a phone call from the Pennsylvania State Police saying that I came into her house and kidnapped him." | Chad Hauer | | 21:09 | "We're here because of Interpol notice because you kidnapped somebody." | Bulgarian Police (paraphrased by Chad) | | 23:13 | "A federal judge...said the statement says, in a grand jury, you can indict a ham sandwich because everybody just wants to go home." | Chad Hauer | | 24:18 | "There were cockroaches like crazy. We couldn't sleep because a cockroach was crawled all over us." | Chad Hauer |

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• 02:15 – Episode summary and background; the "hunter becomes the hunted."
• 03:38 – Chad begins his search for “Cherry”; map and school contact saga.
• 05:22-06:57 – Breakthrough at Cherry Tree Elementary; court interventions.
• 08:04-09:28 – TN court hearing, custody proposals, judge’s reluctance for full overseas custody.
• 12:24-13:47 – Repeated missed flights, final custody ruling, son moves to Cyprus.
• 15:37-17:18 – Mother files in PA court, communication breakdown, Chad keeps son in Cyprus.
• 17:55-18:58 – Kidnapping allegation, missing child website.
• 21:09-22:54 – Interpol arrest in Bulgaria, details of grand jury indictment.
• 24:18-24:27 – Life in Bulgarian prison.

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Conclusion & Narrative Tone

This episode is an intense, methodical, and personal journey through custody warfare and cross-border legal chaos. Chad recounts every twist and turn in a matter-of-fact, wearied style, punctuated by moments of gallows humor and resignation. Jack Laurence balances pace and empathy, ensuring the labyrinth of legal jurisdiction, police involvement, and international arrest remains accessible and gripping.

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Encountering Kafkaesque bureaucracy and personal loss, Chad’s ordeal challenges listeners to examine the complexities and flaws in domestic and international family law—and shows how a tragic game of legal ping-pong can upend an entire family’s life in the blink of an eye.

End of summary.

Transcript

[Jack Lawrence]

Hello Legends. Before we get into the episode, just a quick heads up if you have completed Season one of what I Survived. Firstly, thank you for the incredible support for the show and all the lovely comments. I truly appreciate it. I'm madly working on season two, which will be out for you very soon. In the meantime though, I have just dropped listed as Season two in what I Survived, a previous show that I created a couple of years ago called Wanted. The entire show is there for you to binge while you wait for season two of what I Survived.

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[Chad Hauer]

So now he's up on the Missing child website. And now we know stuff's starting to hit the fan.

[Jack Lawrence]

This is the story of Chad Hauer, the man who is currently still wanted by the FBI for kidnapping, a charge that he says is completely bogus. In our previous episode, Chad talked us through his seemingly amicable divorce that would turn into an absolute nightmare of a custody battle. His ex wife has now left Tennessee with their son and has moved, and Chad has no idea where they've Gone. The only clue he has to go on is the name Cherry that his son would give him prior to his wife hanging up the phone. So before he was the hunted, Chad would have to become the hunter. My name is Jack Lawrence. Welcome to Wanted.

[Poet/Narrator]

I'm a wanderer of the soul before the end I plan to be whole But I know I'll lose myself along the way. What's past is passed Let me leave what belongs.

[Chad Hauer]

So I start calling. First of all, Google was around, but it really wasn't the Google. You know it as of today, right?

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chad Hauer]

Okay. Apple Maps, Google Maps, that stuff didn't exist back then. If it did, it was like not useful. So now I'm having to get my family to like scan maps and fax them to me and find what maps I can on the Internet. I'm trying to find Cherry, any town of the word Cherry in it. And I'm looking all over Ohio. No, I figured she's probably in north eastern Ohio, northwestern Pennsylvania or western New York because her family lives in that area. But I also know she doesn't get along with her family very well. She likes parts of her family like her mom, but doesn't want to be too close. But I knew she's going to be probably within a two hour drive, but that's still a big area, especially since where her parents live is a major transportation hub of highways. So in two to three hours you can get a long way from that area. So now I'm scouring for all the cherries and I'm finding every town, every village, everything I can come up with.

[Jack Lawrence]

So Chad is on the hunt for a place called Cherry. And once he finds a place, he then has to find the details of the local school as he knows that his wife would have had to enroll their son somewhere. However, as I'm sure you can imagine, you can't just call a random school and expect them to hand over details about one of their students. So Chad has to not only find the schools, but then contact them and explain the situation and then fax them through his details and proof that he is in fact the father. He does this numerous times with numerous different schools in areas with the name Cherry. And he's coming up empty handed until he finally gets a breakthrough.

[Chad Hauer]

So I'm faxing over stuff, it's costing me a lot of money. I'm faxing stuff back and forth and I just can't find him. So I find a township which is not even a village, it's like a subdivision of A county. It's like a rural designation. And there's a school called Cherry Tree Elementary. And so I find out what school district it's in. I call the head school district and I fax up and they're like, yeah, your son's been enrolled here since this day in September 2004. Like, bingo.

[Jack Lawrence]

So he's found them. However, this is just the start of the problems as he heads to Cherry Tree Elementary School to try and see his son.

[Chad Hauer]

I tried to visit him at the school because then at first I found the school, but I didn't know where they live and I couldn't serve her until I found her live. So the school, she told the school, the father's going to show up and kidnap him. And she brainwashed him into telling him I was going to kidnap him so the school wouldn't let me see him. I had to get a court order to allow the school to let me see him. And the police had to attend because she said I was going to kidnap. So the police had to be at the school. So this had been going on for like, we had to stay in Pennsylvania for like two months and sort us out. And it was a big thing. The police had been involved. But finally I got his school record, opened it up, and there's her address. So now I could serve her.

[Jack Lawrence]

Finally, he manages to get his ex wife into a courtroom in Pennsylvania where ironically, she's told she's illegally kidnapped their son and she has no choice but to return to Tennessee and sort it out. However, as we have already learned by now, Nancy isn't one to quietly accept things and decides to tell the judge that she'll do no such thing.

[Chad Hauer]

I don't care if you don't like it. You got to go back. And she's like, I'm not going and you can't make me. So he's like, watch me. So the judge said, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to take the child away from you and I'm going to give it to the father and the father's going to have custody until you show up in Tennessee. So she's like, I'm not giving him up. So he ordered the police to take him away from her. So the police went to the house and took him away from her and gave him to me. Now this whole process took about two months. Okay, so that's how it went. So I don't want to stay in Pennsylvania. I've been living with my mom here for two months. And you know my sister's room. And they're like, well, you have custody until Tennessee says otherwise and the mom has to go back to Tennessee. So Tennessee set a court hearing. Mid March 2005, Chad, his son Alex,

[Jack Lawrence]

and Chad's new wife all move to Tennessee. Chad rents a home and they enrol Alex in school and await the hearing. And once at that hearing, Chad says the judge was more than displeased with his ex wife and explains that they need to come up with a new proposal for custody moving forward.

[Chad Hauer]

I submitted two proposals. One was, okay, I get custody, she gets him in the summer, swim for the fences. Didn't think that was going to be accepted because I lived overseas. And initially the reason I left him with her is when I first moved overseas, I was traveling a lot and I couldn't take care of a five year old. I just, I knew with my travel, my work, I was not gonna be able to handle a five year old. And my new wife was not ready to hitchhike on a 5 year old either. Yeah, and he had grown up in Tennessee. His friends were there, his school was there.

[Jack Lawrence]

Yeah, you didn't want to disrupt that for him either.

[Chad Hauer]

Yeah, yeah. But now she's moved to Pennsylvania to a place that she's not from. He's got no friends there, so I'm like, might as well come overseas with me. Plus, he's older now. He's almost nine at this point. And if that doesn't work, since she's gonna fear a visitation, let's change a visitation agreement. I get him in the summers overseas, and additional, if I'm in the country around Christmas and I give two weeks notice, I can have some additional visitation here. And there's. But the main thing is in the summers he's coming to me. And she's like, nope. And so the judge is like, you know, Vecna, what's your proposal? And she's like, the father should never get him. And so the judge is like. He's like, well, you know, I'm not ready to send an American child overseas yet, but for the summer I am. That's fair. And she's like, no, no, no, no. And he's like, well, young lady, I don't care. And it said that in the court order, it said, this child will go overseas where the father lives, no restrictions.

[Jack Lawrence]

So the new order is in place, but of course there would be a need for more court orders and instructions as Nancy would stall at every opportunity.

[Chad Hauer]

She took him and got to go back to Pennsylvania. So he Was in Pennsylvania for another two months again. Okay. This time he's there legally, but not for the six month required minimum. So the court order has not transferred. Tennessee still holds all the control over this for another six months. So then she's like, well, you can't make me apply for a passport because I've already bought his ticket. Yeah, his ticket is set for like two days after school ends. So we had to get an order applying, ordering her to apply now. Passports don't come quick remind you.

[Jack Lawrence]

No, absolutely.

[Chad Hauer]

They came quicker back then than you do now. American passports can take six months. So she delayed. So I had to pay for the. I had to pay to expedite it, which costs more. And then she's like, I can't find his birth certificate and I'm overseas so I can't do anything. And she's just going through this. So finally we had to get an order from Tennessee and Pennsylvania and they basically ordered her to get a passport just in time.

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[Jack Lawrence]

Eventually, Alex has his passport and a ticket to spend the summer with his dad in Europe is bought. On the day he is to fly out, Chad arranges for his stepfather to pick him up and ensure that he makes it to the plane as he knows that he can't trust his ex wife to do it. So that morning, Chad's stepdad jumps in the car and drives over to the house and well, yes, I'm sure you've probably guessed it by now. There's no one there. So not only does Chad now lose the money for the tickets, but he also has to buy a new set for himself to head back to the US where he files another court order with Tennessee. Chad says that the last time they were in court, the judge did warn Nancy about doing this exact thing in March.

[Chad Hauer]

He told her, he says, listen, young lady, if this child's not on the plane, I am transferring custody. The father will have custody, and the child will go live over the seas, and you'll get him in the summer if you're lucky, or something like that, right? And she's like, yeah, yeah, just give me the kid. Just give me the kid. Just give me the kid. I don't care, because I've had him for three months already. So we had a court hearing in Tennessee in August, and the judge did what he said. Well, first of all, he ordered her to show up. She didn't show up again. And he's like, well, father got custody, but she's in Pennsylvania. So she's like, I don't care. You suck it, Judge.

[Jack Lawrence]

This back and forth craziness continues, costing Chad a fortune to fly back and forth between Europe and the States, not to mention starting to cause issues with his employers at Microsoft. Nonetheless, he's back again in Pennsylvania in court, where the judge there decides that it wasn't, in fact, fair that Nancy was not present when the ruling was made. Of her own doing, might we add. So he speaks with a judge in Tennessee and asks that he redo the hearing again, but this time with Nancy present, which is what happens. However, the result is exactly the same. Chad is given full custody.

[Chad Hauer]

And so he's like, listen, the father's got custody. You're to give the child over, not leave the courtroom. She's like, can we just take him to visit the zoo for a little while? And I'm like, nope, I'm not letting him.

[Jack Lawrence]

Not let him by my side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that won't even. Well, she's not going to the zoo.

[Chad Hauer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we let her visit him in the hall for a few minutes with a police officer. Right? I'm not letting him go nowhere. So, long story short, I got custody. He moved overseas with me, and we were in Turkey for a few months before we went back to Cyprus. I made sure he called his mom every week, even when he's like, I don't want to call. He called his mom every week. I paid for the international calls. She sent him letters. He sent things back to her. I made him communicate with her. So now summer 2006 comes around and it's time for her summer visitation. And because I'm a nice guy, I even agreed to pay for the flights.

[Jack Lawrence]

But with all of what's already happened, like, surely in the back of your mind you must have been thinking this is going to end badly, but there's nothing, I suppose, you can do about it because you don't want to be in the same position as what she was doing. So you've just got to do the right thing and then deal with the consequences that are bound to happen. Because she's got form, basically.

[Chad Hauer]

Exactly. That's exactly it. So full well, knowing what we're in for, we sent him.

[Jack Lawrence]

Now, the important part of this whole debacle is which state holds jurisdiction over this situation. With Alex now living with his father in Cyprus, that means that the courts in Cyprus would technically have jurisdiction over the case. However, Chad says that he didn't think this would be fair to do this to his ex wife because it would mean her having to fly to Cyprus if they needed to go back through the courts. So he asked the Tennessee courts if it can remain under their jurisdiction until Alex turns 18. To which they agree. So Chad sends Alex back to his mum's for the summer, and yes, yet again, he would lose contact with his son.

[Chad Hauer]

I just figure, okay, it is what it is. Let's wait till the end of the summer. Hopefully he'll come back. Right? About two to three weeks before he's supposed to return, she files something with the Pennsylvania court asking for custody. And she files a whole bunch of. I don't even know how to describe what it was. Bull crap. She says that Cyprus is a dangerous place because it's close to Lebanon and Lebanon is currently in a war because at the time Israel was bombing Lebanon. Again, she claims I was mugged, which I was not. The judge is like, well, I don't have jurisdiction. You got to go to Tennessee. And then she's like, well, I'm not sending him. The judge told her, he says, I'm sending police again. I'm taking them away. You're going to put them on the plane? Because she's like, I'm not doing it. So the police took him away again, gave him to my stepdad, and he. My stepdad put him on the plane, and then he's back in Cyprus.

[Jack Lawrence]

All of a sudden, one day, the judge from Pennsylvania, who initially said that this issue was not part of his jurisdiction, says he wants to have a hearing to check out the claims that have been made and instructs Chad to return yet again.

[Chad Hauer]

He's like. He tells me I have to show up in Pennsylvania again. I'm like, you gotta be crazy. Microsoft's like, you leave again, you're fired. And I'm like, okay. They're like, well, the father doesn't have to hear, but the child has to appear. They're like, you just saw him in court. He's in school. I'm not taking him out of school to fly him back. So you can talk to him. You can talk to him on the phone, you can Skype, video chat with him, but I'm not sending him. But I did send my lawyers. So my lawyers went to this court hearing and the judge is like, well, the father didn't comply with the court order, so I'm granting, not full custody, temporary custody until the father shows up.

[Jack Lawrence]

Chad says that slowly communications with his ex wife started to go quiet. He would try to call the phone and it was disconnected. Letters he would send got return marks denied. He says he eventually discovers that her house is being sold by the courts due to her not being able to pay her mortgage, and she moves. So summer rolls around and Chad says due to the conflicting court orders, he decided he can't send Alex back to his mum's. So instead he stays in Cyprus. And that's when things get a whole lot more serious.

[Chad Hauer]

My mom gets a phone call from the Pennsylvania State Police saying that I came into her house and kidnapped him. So he leaves his number. So I call the state Police barracks and I talk to the dude and he's like, oh, okay, so you didn't go in the house? Now, to be honest, I don't know if she said I went in or she just implied that, but he certainly had that belief. And he's like, I didn't put out an Amber Alert, anything, because I know it's a custody issue, and I'm just trying to figure out what's going on first before I do anything. And so I explained it. I faxed him a copy of the court order and he's like, okay, I'm just going to drop this. And I didn't think anything was going to come of it because he told me that's it, right? But I'm smart enough by this point to put out a Google alert on my name. Turns out, April 1, 2008, she went back to the judge and got an arrest warrant for me. Now, it's not an arrest warrant for kidnapping, it's a bench warrant. It's a failure to appear. So it's not an arrest warrant for a crime. It's basically arrest this dude, bring him to the judge. And so they send this to my lawyer. So I'm aware of it. And then a few days later my son goes up on a missing child website. The national official missing child website. He's on the website a few days later. And now we know stuff's starting to hit the fan.

[Jack Lawrence]

When Chad says stuff's starting to hit the fan, he's not wrong. For those of you who don't know about the NCMEC or the National Centre for Missing or Exploited Children, it's not a simple case of placing a flyer on a website. It's a pretty serious step to take. The NCMEC on their website states just how they will help locate your missing child. It says on the website when you call ncmec, a call centre specialist will record information about your child. Then an NCMEC case management team will next work directly with your family and the law enforcement agency investigating your case. They will offer technical assistance tailored to your case to help ensure all available search and recovery methods are used.

[Chad Hauer]

So we're just chilling here, enjoying life. We went to France for three months. Alex went all over Europe again. We went to Belgium and Italy and Switzerland and traveling, no problems, nothing, thinking,

[Jack Lawrence]

still working for Microsoft at this time as well.

[Chad Hauer]

Contracting, not full time contract because I'd had to leave my job before because of all the court hearings. But they're like when I left Microsoft they begged me to stay and then all different divisions. Singapore tried to hire me, China tried to hire me. But then finally I said I can't because I got the situation going on this court hearings. They're like, well you could do part time contracts. I'm still speaking at conferences though. So we went to France, the whole family, no problems came back. And then my daughter was born in September 2009 and I had a conference to go out to in Bulgaria in October. And so I got on the plane, you know, we didn't know anything. We knew my son was on a National center for Exploited Children but nothing had really come of it. Right.

[Jack Lawrence]

This trip to Bulgaria would be the one where Chad discovers just how serious his situation has become and that the FBI and Interpol have placed him on their wanted list.

[Chad Hauer]

We'd been out of speaker dinner the night before. I hadn't got back to like two or three really tired. But I had one of the first sessions, I had one of the opening sessions of the conference in A movie theater, fully booked, probably 500 or more people. It's a session I've done a bunch of times because most of my sessions I would just go around the world and deliver the same sessions, but I was always refining them. I got like three hours of sleep. I woke up, I got a message, I think a Skype message. I remember how it came in, but I got a message from one of my sisters that my grandfather had just died. So that kind of set a bad tone for the day. And I'm like, okay, well, I gotta give the session. I'm just gonna, you know, push it down for a while. So I was just like, okay, put it off for now. Trying to just make some fine tuning to my sessions. And I try and localize all my sessions. So I was trying to add a little bit of Bulgarian touch into it. And I just about to go down to breakfast, I was going to make a phone call to one of my friends and like, hey, let's grab some breakfast and then we'll go over to my session. So I get a knock at the door. I thought it was him coming to the door, just, you know, like, yo, let's go to breakfast. So up in the door, I'm in my underwear and there's four. I don't remember how many were at the door. I think there were two at the door. Two men and a woman. I think there were five eventually. But I think of the door as just two men, plus the woman and the woman. They're all dressed in black. They're not dressed as police, but they pull up badges. And the woman is there as a translator. Now she is a police officer. She started off with, hey, you know, we're a Bulgarian police and we're here because of Interpol notice because you kidnapped somebody. I'm like, what the heck? They're like, well, they're inquiring about your son. Let's go to the police station, have a chat. I'm like, I got a session. Like, well, you have to come. So, you know, we went and then the U. S. Embassy showed up and they interrogated me. One of the biggest doofuses I've ever met, Put me in a Bulgarian drunk tank overnight and then carted me off to prison after that.

[Jack Lawrence]

Now you might be asking yourself, how have we gone from a missing child's website to all of a sudden having Interpol knocking at the hotel room door? Well, it would seem that unbeknownst to Chad back in the U.S. a court hearing would take place where he was being Accused of kidnapping the DA who did all this.

[Chad Hauer]

There's two. There's a couple players, but the DA is the main person still around that's still keeping this case alive. So he's. Everybody's like, well, if you were wanted, why'd you travel? Because I didn't freaking know. Because In May of 2009, they had what's called a federal grand jury. And these are outlawed in every country in the world except for two. Now, the US Is the only one using, like candy. They're basically rubber stamps. They walk in, there's no defense. Sometimes there's not even a judge. It's the prosecutor and 12 people who want to go home. There's a federal judge, United States, that said the statement says, in a grand jury, you can indict a ham sandwich because everybody just wants to go home. So he got my lying ex wife to go in and they charged me with kidnapping in a closed door hearing behind closed doors. My lawyers never knew about it. I was not notified about it. I had no chance to present any defense. And you know what the evidence was? The poster.

[Jack Lawrence]

The poster of what they wanted. The missing poster and my ex wife's testimony. Coming up. Chad is now detained on an Interpol red notice sparked by the FBI's wanted list. And in a Bulgarian prison, he awaits extradition to the US to face charges of kidnapping. What was that like? What was that like being shipped off to a Bulgarian prison?

[Chad Hauer]

Oh, it sucked. There were cockroaches like crazy. We couldn't sleep because a cockroach was crawled all over us.

[Jack Lawrence]

Next time unwanted I'm a wanderer of

[Poet/Narrator]

the soul before the end I plan to behold But I know I lose myself along the way what's gone is gone. What's past is past. Let me leave what belongs in the past.

[Edward Jones Announcer]

A rich life isn't a straight line to a destination on the horizon. Sometimes it takes an unexpected turn with detours, new possibilities, and even another passenger or three. And with 100 years of navigating ups and downs, you can count on Edward Jones to help guide you through it all. Because life is a winding path made rich by the people you walk it with. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones Member, SIPC

[Chad Hauer]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend

[Jack Lawrence]

this

[Edward Jones Announcer]

season on the Dream.

[Chad Hauer]

Supplies are being provided by nurses who run out in the middle of the night and purchase diapers, but the hospital is still charging as if they still have these items.

[Edward Jones Announcer]

We are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show. It's a spinning plate analogy.

[Chad Hauer]

The second that you stop spinning those plates, that crashes.

[Edward Jones Announcer]

So you can never stop working. The Dream Season 4 comes at you weekly.

[Chad Hauer]

Starting Monday, January 20th, Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.