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- [00:00]
Jack Lawrence
Hello Legends. Before we get into the episode, just a quick heads up if you have completed season one of what I Survived. Firstly, thank you for the incredible support for the show and all the lovely comments. I truly appreciate it. I'm madly working on season two which will be out for you very soon. In the meantime though, I have just dropped listed as season two in what I Survived a previous show that I created a couple of years ago called Wanted. The entire show is there for you to binge while you wait for season two of what I Survived.
- [00:30]
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- [01:03]
Bill (Wild Bill)
ACAST
- [01:04]
Jack Lawrence
Powers the World's Best Podcasts here's the show that we recommend.
- [01:11]
Podcast Narrator
Chicago 2011 A cop is murdered. Police and prosecutors swear they have the trigger man. He swears he didn't do it. How far will each side go to prove they're right?
- [01:24]
Commercial Announcer
Like it's just one bombshell after another. You know, you're like what? What?
- [01:28]
Podcast Narrator
The story of a PlayStation, a brain eating amoeba, and the relentless pursuit of justice. Off duty out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:43]
Bill (Wild Bill)
ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com
- [01:53]
Jack Lawrence
this episode contains stories that some people may find distressing. Listener discretion is advised. William Hulbert, also known as Wild Bill, currently resides in prison in Panama. A prison that is overcrowded and violence that is on another level. In fact, on December 17 of 2019, a a gunfight erupted within the prison walls with 15 inmates being killed as prisoners wielded assault rifles and handguns and began executing one another. The prison is also flooded with contraband which arrives by drone. The drones regularly fly across the prison walls to drop things like drugs to the prisoners below. Inmates have moved to use these drones as well. They're more reliable than the old fashioned way of using prison guards who not only asked for more money on regular occasions, but also would turn you in. Although Bill says this new technology creates an entire other issue A ball of
- [03:00]
Bill (Wild Bill)
drug was dropped by a drone, but it missed and it hit our cell block instead of somebody else's. The drug ball wasn't ours. The police found it. And then the police thought that it was ours because the boys are trying to recover it efficient with, with like lines and hooks, trying to fish it into the building. They come down really fast with a search and I got my phone hidden in time. I purposefully have chosen the cell that has really good cell phone signal and far away from the door. So it took them longer to get to me to get the door open. I was hanging in the hammock and they come down for a search and so I fell and busted my ass and they, they took everybody outside. And most guys, I don't. But most guys hide their phone in the door. It's a metal door, you cut a hole in it, you put the phone in it, it's hard to fish back out. The cops don't know how to get them out. So this time they just came with a side cutter and a welder and cut every one of the doors. And there were 16 phones in here. 16 men, 16 phones, and now there's three. That's really problematic. I woke up at 4 o' clock this morning and the guys were already fighting over who gets to use what phone, so on and so forth. I ain't letting nobody use my phone. If somebody drops it on accident and breaks it, you know, I'm screwed. So nobody's using my phone. And a lot of times in prison also, you'll get guys who will break your shit on purpose. You loan it to them, they'll break it on purpose. Because they don't have one. They don't want you to have one either. So nobody's getting my phone. That may be a problem for me today because here's a big thing about envy anyway, that's what's happening here in hell. Now it's the first morning, it's 6:18. They put, they installed. Yesterday they installed a cell phone blocker on the roof of the building. So very problematic.
- [04:39]
Jack Lawrence
But of course, before Bill found himself incarcerated in one of the Western hemisphere's most dangerous prisons, he was a wanted man. They were America's most wanted fugitives.
- [04:50]
Bill (Wild Bill)
That is until Monday.
- [04:51]
Jack Lawrence
A couple who lived in Asheville is being detained in Nicaragua, accused in a string of killings in three different countries. My name is Jack Lawrence. Welcome to Wanted.
- [05:00]
Poet/Singer
I'm a wanderer of the soul before the end I plan to be whole But I know I lose myself along the way what's gone is gone. What's past is past. Let me leave what belongs in the past.
- [05:29]
Jack Lawrence
So as we know from our previous episode, Bill has left the US and is living in Costa Rica with three Italian bank robbers when he meets a man who runs a trafficking business or a coyote smuggling operation and gives Bill a job.
- [05:46]
Bill (Wild Bill)
Yeah, coyote refers to people who. A man who helps people cross borders illegally. And that's basically what the operation was. This was a boat, boatloads of Asian, particularly Chinese people who were trafficked into the United States. And I don't know much of the legs of the journey. The only leg I know about is the one that I was on. And that was from picking people up in a very remote bay in the Bocas del Toro province of Panama, taking them to about 20 miles outside of Jamaica and dropping them off onto another boat doing an at sea exchange of between 60 and 80 people on each trip. I was making about four or five thousand dollars a week.
- [06:28]
Jack Lawrence
Each year. Many people will try and succeed to enter the United States illegally. In fact, in 2021, a record 1.7 million people were caught trying to cross the southern border. And those are the ones that were caught. Some come from Mexico and simply try their luck running across the border by themselves. Others will pay to be taken over the border by guides, while some will come by boat. But don't underestimate just how dangerous and ruthless it can be trying to enter a country this way. As Bill talks us through one of the worst things he ever witnessed while being the captain of one of these boats.
- [07:15]
Bill (Wild Bill)
On those journeys, the organization would give me a security so it would be me and the other person. I had like a loaded six shot Smith and Wesson revolver and so did he. Between 60 and 80 people. And then I would take them just outside of Jamaica and tie up on the open ocean to another boat where they would jump across and the Jamaicans would count them and then carry them on. That's all I know about the leg. And I assume that from just. They would either go to Florida or Texas or maybe even Alabama, but somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico, I'm sure is the way that they would go from there. Then on one thing that happened, remember, these are like clients. They're not exactly treated as well as like if you are flying US Air or going on a Carnival Cruise. But they're still clients. There's still people who have paid money to be smuggled in and so they're not to be mistreated. And even though they're not to Be mistreated. Oftentimes that they were, you know, mistreated. Anyway, I tried to run my operation very professionally and run it as if I was a captain of a tourism boat. You know, I was nice to everybody, tried to make sure, because the trip was about 350 mile one way, 700 mile round trip, and it took about four days because you're in a boat that runs about 11 or 12 knots, nautical miles, which is like 14 miles an hour. So it takes a long time to get there and get back. We go to sea two days, you know, day and night. Later we're there in Jamaica dropping people off. We pull up beside the Jamaican boat, but the seas are very heavy on the Caribbean. That they were about 15 foot seas, which isn't very high for the Atlantic, but for the Caribbean that's really high. It's really high seas. The swells are about 15ft. And so we tie it up together. But when we tie up together, we put little bumpers in between the boats. But in this case, when. When there's so much swells, you have to give a little leeway with the rope. If you don't, the boats will capsize. So you have to give them a little leeway and they bump together. So when we were doing the count, the Jamaicans are counting the people as they jump across. The beautiful little girl jumped up. There was like maybe 30 passengers left. And maybe she was like number, let's say number 50 going across. And she. When she jumped up on the gunwale of the boat, she slipped and one of her feet fell in between the boats and they closed on it and it broke her leg. But when I say it broke her leg, I mean it broke it so damn bad that the bones were sticking out of the skin below the knee. And she's screaming bloody murder. And the Jamaicans just pull her up into the boat, blood everywhere, you know, And I was like, oh my God. So we finished the count and I didn't really know what to do. So we left and left her with the Jamaicans. And I was trolling, or I was trolling the boat around, turning the boat around, trailing it around, and I heard a gunshot. And I looked over and then I saw them throw her into the water. So they shot her, killed her and threw her in the water. Because there's no doctor. I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, that wound would have been fatal for her anyway. And in a way, they saved her a long period of time because there's no doctor on the. What we're doing, there's no doctor on the open ocean. And by the time she got to, you know, 10 hours, 12 hours later, she would have bled out. And I'm not relieving guilt of the Jamaicans because I remember feeling so. I mean, or my own either. Even today when I tell this story, I feel so guilty about it, you know, I feel terrible about it, but it's something that happened and it sticks in my mind. And I think to myself, you know, even after she broke her leg, if I had just like took her back on the boat and took her back with me, she probably still. She probably would have had her leg amputated, but she'd probably lived. But even then, what would I have done? But in Panama, I could have probably got that done without the police being called, you know, and, and I certainly didn't expect, you know, Jamaicans to shoot her and throw her overboard. But I didn't, I didn't take any responsibility for that action and let the Jamaicans handle it. And that's how the Jamaicans handled it. They just shot her and threw her into the water.
- [11:13]
Poet/Singer
For Sharp,
- [11:22]
Jack Lawrence
it would be while working this job that Bill says he would take a man's life for the very first time in self defense.
- [11:30]
Bill (Wild Bill)
As I mentioned earlier, they give you a security. The, the organization gives us a security because, you know, 80 people are too much for a captain to manage by himself. And so I got a deckhand who also doubles as security. But they gave me this humongous man, American man, who was a fugitive from the United States. And I won't say his name. And he was just terrible to deal with. I mean, he was about. I was a big guy, or still am a big guy. I am about 6 foot 1. And in that time period, I weighed about 275 pounds. I was kind of about 30 or 40 pounds overweight. But I boxed a lot and I lifted weights a lot. And I was, you know, fairly athletic. And the other man was about 6 foot 6 and probably weighed 350 pounds. And he was kind of just a blob, you know, but he was a huge man. And he would do terrible things. Like he would, like I said, he would touch the girls, he would fight with the passengers. He was like the opposite of keeping order. He was like creating problems all the time. And so we'd been on a particularly different difficult trip. And when I got back, he was. We were floating in the harbor, waiting on the boss man to come and pay us and take charge of the boat. And I was floating in the harbor on Bocas del Toro, on the east harbor. And it's like 3 o' clock in the morning and the guy's like drinking beer and doing cocaine. And I'm like, man, we're working, dude. There are harbor cops all over the place. What are you doing? He's like, what? And I'm like, you know, And I just snapped and I told him the truth. I said, you're the most unprofessional idiot that I've ever worked with in my life and this is the last time I'm going to work with you. If they try to send me back out with you, I'm just not going to go. He became offended and started to scream at me and I said, well, now this is why. Look at you, you're a slob. You're fucking worthless. So he became really offended and came to try to hit me. And I wore him out. I gave him about a four punch combination and set him on his big fat ass. And I thought, good, that's handled. But it wasn't handled at all. And he began to do cocaine and began to speak to himself. And he said things like, I can't believe that I let that fucking idiot treat me like that. And so then I started trying to like, hey man, just be cool. We're getting ready to get paid. Forgive me. I was stressed out. I said things I shouldn't say, but he was like going now. So he comes back and tries to tackle me and I moved to step out of the way, but I slipped on the deck was wet and I slipped and I fell back on my back and he fell on top of me and he's trying to hit me, but I'm covering well, he's not hitting me at all, but like, I got 350 pounds of lord ass lint on me and, you know, I'm like, I can't get out from under the sky. So I reached back with my hand, my right hand, and I found something on the deck. I don't know, it was something in my hand and I grabbed it and I smashed it over his head. And what it was was a boat anchor. And when I hit him with it, it just opened his head like a can of, like a can of tuna. And all these brains and blood and shit come sporing out and he's dead. He don't even move. He don't even flop. He's dead, dead as shit.
- [14:24]
Jack Lawrence
Bill's now floating just off the harbour at three o' clock in the morning on a people Smuggling boat with a dead man. To say he was in a really bad spot is an understatement. He says he was terrified. He just killed a guy and had no intention of doing so. But he stays put until he would see the flashing lights of a vehicle at the dock. It's the boss.
- [14:45]
Bill (Wild Bill)
I pull up to the dock, and I covered up the body with a blue tarp that was in the boat.
- [14:50]
Taco Bell Advertiser
And I.
- [14:50]
Bill (Wild Bill)
And I was just covered in brains and blood and shit, you know? So the boss man walks out with a flashlight, and he's like, what the hell? What happened to you? Are you shot? He asked me, and I said, no. I said, but we have a problem. I said, we have a problem. And he said, what? What? And I showed him. I opened up the tarp, and he's like, no, no, no, no, no. We don't have a problem. You got a problem. And he hands me my money and the money of the other guy. Too wrapped up. And he said, I came here. I saw both of you. I. I paid both of you. I'm going home. I don't know anything else about nothing. And left. And left me there with the body. So I disposed of the body. Let's just leave it there. So good.
- [15:35]
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- [15:47]
Bill (Wild Bill)
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- [15:50]
Commercial Announcer
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- [16:08]
Jack Lawrence
So you might be thinking that while you're listening to the life and times of a cartel hitman, that stories such as the one Bill just told us will be littered throughout the year. Episodes. Details on just how he would carry out his work as a killer for hire. But you'd be wrong. Not only would I just not broadcast those types of details, but Bill, in fact, will not give them. Bill will not even mention the names of those he's killed. He says if he talks about it, it will give him nightmares for weeks. Now, don't get me wrong. We're not trying to play a sympathy card here for Wild Bill, But Bill has had experiences in the past that have shaken him.
- [16:50]
Bill (Wild Bill)
People ask me a lot of questions, said, well, did you feel guilty? Did you feel. I was always just afraid. I was just afraid I was gonna get caught. I mean, it's not something I wanted to do. And I didn't have really time to feel bad for him now. I didn't really feel, I won't lie, in that time of my life, I didn't really feel bad for him at all. I just didn't want to get caught. But this is odd and not. There's two things that happen to me and there are things that I'm not insane. I'm not a person that handles stress in a bad way. I don't see things that are not there. I have never in my life experienced a vision or something that I thought nothing. I'm a very by the book, very level headed man. I'm a Virgo, for God's sakes. I'm calculated. This happened. I laid down that evening with my girlfriend in the bed and I tried to sleep. I couldn't sleep. Then I looked in the room and I saw a man sized shadow, a huge man sized shadow moving around the bottom of the bed. And I reached and I thought, somebody from the organization has come to kill me. Somebody from the cartel. So I opened slowly. I reached over in the dark and opened the nightstand and took out a.38 revolver and turned on the light. And there was nobody there. But I mean, it's not like I was seeing something that was there. It was there, I could see it. And then when I turned on the light, there was nothing there. And so the next day, I don't know, maybe two or three days later, I was cooking in the kitchen. And out of the corner of my eye I saw the man that I killed dressed just like he was dressed. The last time I saw him, I saw him, he was in the room. And there's not like, I'm not bullshitting, I mean, he was there. It wasn't like he was there. For just the briefest I saw him, he was there for like two seconds and then he was gone. And it's not like he disappeared. I just can't. I don't know how to explain it, but he was just not there anymore. And I said, I called his name and I said, get the fuck out of my house. I didn't want to kill you, you stupid bastard. You brought on your own death. That's what I said. And I felt a relief. And I never saw or heard anything from him again.
- [19:18]
Jack Lawrence
The other big problem that Bill has is not only has he killed a guy and disposed of the body somewhere, which of course could be found at any time, he also has the added concern that the men he'd been working for knew what he'd done. He'd killed a man on one of their boats and they knew where he lived. So he decides it's time to pack up and move into the city where no one knows him. While in the city, sitting at a bar having a few drinks, he would inadvertently find himself a new line of work.
- [19:52]
Bill (Wild Bill)
So I went to this bar and I was drinking there, and in comes this man, and we're going to call his name Rolf. His name wasn't Rolf, but I call him that for the sake, you know, I changed his name for. To protect his identity, because he's still there, I'm sure. And Rolf sits down beside me and started talking. And he. I find out that Rolf, he offers his services to me. He's a high end pimp. He has prostitutes. I don't. I've never in my life paid for sex. But I thought it was interesting. I thought his job was interesting. So I got to talking to him a little bit and then he asked me what I did and I said, well, you know, I did a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and you know, I know about doing collections, I know about bouncing, I know about anything, you know, moving contraband. And he said, oh, collections? You do collections? I said, yeah, I did a lot of collections in the United States. And I like that kind of rough work. So he says, well, there's this guy that owes me $25,000. And to be perfectly honest, with $25,000 isn't very much money to me. He says, this is what Rolf is saying. And he says, but it's the principle of the thing. The man won't pay me money that he promised and he owes and I'd like somebody to collect it. And I said, give me the man's address and I'll go get it for you, but I want a piece of it. And he said, of course. So he says, go and pick it up. Here it is. If you can collect it, I'll give you a high percentage of it. He says, So I said, okay. I was thinking I'll make five grand off this deal is what I was thinking. I had my mind set on 5,000 of that $25,000. And I thought, when I go get the money, I'll just count myself out $5,000 and I'll give him 20. He don't got no choice, you know. So I went and talked to the man. Me and a baseball bat went and talked to the man and he paid me the $25,000 that he owed Rolf and it wasn't that hard to get either. He knew he owed it. And so I took the money to Rolf. And I didn't do what I said. I wanted to see what Rolf would do. I gave him the $25,000 and this was 24 hours later. And he was just amazed. And he's like here. And he gives me $12,500 and I'm like, what the hell? Half. And he's like, yeah. He's like, it's not the money. I mean, Ross driving like a Porsche Cayenne, which in Costa Rica back in those days cost $250,000, doesn't need that 25 grand. He just like you said, it was the principal. And he asked me, he says, would you like to come to the country club? And that didn't sound very fun to me. It didn't sound something like it was what am I seeing? And I said not really. I'm like, I'm not a country club guy. And he's like, no, but the club. I'm like, I don't know what club? And he's like the real cariari. The country club. And I'm like, I don't know. And he's like, just. He said if you want to work and you want to make money, come to the country club. And here is an invitation. So he gives me this formal invitation card and it's got a dress code on it. And he says, but you have to come, you know, you have to come. Suit and tie. Suit, black tie. Fair.
- [22:41]
Jack Lawrence
Bill hires himself a suit for his first black tie event with the Costa Rican elite as he heads off to the country club located just 20 minutes from the city of San Jose, boasting a stunning 18 hole golf course, tennis courts, Olympic sized swimming pool and three restaurants. However, it's not the wonderful amenities that Bill was looking for as he signs himself in and instantly spots his German friend Rolf, who's quick to make some introductions.
- [23:14]
Bill (Wild Bill)
So he introduced me to this little fat bald headed judge. And the little bald headed judge is a, you know, a very light skinned man. And he, and he explains to me that his daughter's dating a Colombian drug trafficker and that he had. The trafficker has a lot of money but he don't like him and he don't want her and she's like 21 years old and just a beautiful girl and he don't want her dating some man that's like his own age too. The guy was older and so he said if I could convince the man to not to break it off with the girl, then he would be thankful. That's what he said. I didn't think I was going to make any money off of it. I just looked at it as an opportunity to get in with that crowd and who was very snooty to me. They looked at me like I didn't belong there, even though I was dressed well and I'm an American, which also is a big deal. Being an American is a big deal there, because in Latin America, gringos are like the best thing you can be. But they looked at me like they were old money, you know, and they looked at me kind of bad. But anyway, so I went and I saw the guy and again took my baseball bat. And after quite a bit of convincing, he called the girl and broke it off. And I warned him that he better not change his mind and so on and so forth. And so I left from there. And so I went back on. Like, I think I remember it being a Thursday. I went back to the meeting on a Thursday, the snooty meeting there that they have. They call it a black tie social. So I went back to the black tie Social at 3 o' clock in the afternoon, and I walked in, signed in again on the same visitors pass. And the little judge jumps up from one side of the room. The room is very large. It's a very large room. It's probably 100 people there. He jumps up from one side of the room and he says, mi amigo, my friend. And he comes running from one side and everybody stops what they're doing to look. And he jumps up and gives me this big hug, pulls me down, you know, to the ground. And he says, thank you. Thank you. You saved my family. And I said, so you're happy with the result? And he said, yes. He said, my daughter's sad, but she'll get over it. And you know, exactly what I wanted to happen. I'm so thankful. And he said, and I have something for you. And he reaches into his inner coat pocket and he pulls out an envelope. And so I didn't count it. I said, thank you very much. Judge put it right. And so he goes around, he introduces me to everybody. This is my friend. He solves problems. He says, so, like, everybody's getting my phone number, and now I'm getting loose, you know, I'm drinking a little bit and getting loose and starting to be like the real Wild Bill there.
- [25:30]
Jack Lawrence
Bill begins to mingle, have a little fun and make some new connections, picking up a few jobs as he Works the room. But it's not until he finally leaves the black tie event and heads back to his car that he discovers just how lucrative his new job really is.
- [25:46]
Bill (Wild Bill)
I went back to my car and I took the envelope out and I looked. There was $45,000 in the envelope. Like, holy shit. And so in about three weeks time, I'd done four or five jobs. And in three weeks time, I was living in a villa on the 17th green, looking straight at the green. Viari Country Club, which is the most exclusive country club in all Costa Rica, Maybe all Latin America or all Central America. For sure. The most exclusive body of human beings club of human beings in all of Costa Rica, Panama, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, Belize, Guatemala. So, like a real swanky place. And I was living the high life. I lived there for eight months. And I did just. I just had the best life. Get up in the morning, go for a little walk in the neighborhood. It's a gated neighborhood. You couldn't get in without, you know, without having to pass on your car. Security guards everywhere. You know, the president has a villa there. You know, I'm living a big life. I kept having to replace windows, though, because the golfers would break the windows of the little condo.
- [26:49]
Jack Lawrence
So apart from having to continuously repair windows, Bill's living the high life in his new home with his new job. But where Wild Bill goes, trouble's not far behind. And it isn't long before he's on the move again.
- [27:05]
Bill (Wild Bill)
My contact at the O I Hota, which is like the Costa Rican version of the FBI, called me and said, hey, man, they've issued a warrant for your arrest. You gotta get the fuck out of here.
- [27:14]
Jack Lawrence
Next time, unwanted I'm a wanderer of
- [27:18]
Poet/Singer
the soul before the end I plan to behold But I know I lose myself along the way what's gone is gone what's past is past. Let me leave what belongs in the past.
- [27:40]
Jack Lawrence
If you want to find out more about the man who was once Central America's most infamous hitman and now a serving Christian minister in a Panamanian prison, Bill has written a book about his experiences inside Central America's prison system, the details of which are in the show notes of this episode.
- [28:04]
Commercial Announcer
K Pop Demon Hunters. Haja Boy's Breakfast Meal and Huntrick's Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi?
- [28:13]
Podcast Narrator
It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take
- [28:16]
Bill (Wild Bill)
breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.
- [28:18]
Jack Lawrence
It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor.
- [28:22]
Bill (Wild Bill)
It is our larger honor.
- [28:24]
Commercial Announcer
No, really, stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side
- [28:32]
Taco Bell Advertiser
and participate in McDonald's while supplies last,
- [28:37]
Bill (Wild Bill)
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [28:45]
Podcast Narrator
Chicago 2011. A cop is murdered. Police and prosecutors swear they have the trigger man. He swears he didn't do it. How far will each side go to prove their right?
- [28:57]
Commercial Announcer
Like, it's just one bombshell after another.
- [29:00]
Bill (Wild Bill)
You know, you're like, what?
- [29:02]
Commercial Announcer
What?
- [29:02]
Podcast Narrator
The story of a PlayStation, a brain eating amoeba, and the relentless pursuit of justice. Off duty. Out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [29:17]
Bill (Wild Bill)
ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.