What It Was Like – "Growing Up With My Cousin, Ted Bundy"

Host: Julian Morgans
Guest: Edna Cal Martin (Ted Bundy’s cousin)
Date: April 11, 2026

Episode Overview

In this darkly compelling episode, host Julian Morgans sits down with Edna Cal Martin, cousin of one of the most infamous serial killers in American history, Ted Bundy. Offering an intimate, first-hand look into Bundy’s early life, Edna shares vivid personal memories—childhood anecdotes, unsettling moments as a young adult, and chilling realizations as Bundy’s crimes unfolded. The conversation explores the complexity of evil, the trauma inflicted on family members of criminals, and the scars left on survivors and loved ones.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Ties and Early Memories

• Ted’s Arrival in Washington:
  • Ted and his mother, Louise, moved from Philadelphia to Tacoma, Washington, after Louise became a single mother (05:46).
  • Edna’s father encouraged the move to offer Louise a fresh start.
• Childhood Interactions:
  • Ted was five years older than Edna and mainly played with her brother, John, but was “always a sweetheart to the little kids, or at least to me” (07:12).
  • One memory: After being sprayed by a water skier, Ted became uncharacteristically angry, a reaction described as "over the top" by Edna’s brother (07:54).
  • Quote: “He got really angry. That was something that really stood out in my brother's memory, was how upset he got and how angry, and seemed to be over the top about that.” — Edna Cal Martin (08:10)

2. Young Adulthood — The Ted No One Suspected

• Growing Closer in College:
  • Edna transferred to the University of Washington, living near Ted’s boarding house.
  • She recalls feeling safer having Ted nearby: “I thought, okay, if I need anything, my cousin Ted is just basically five blocks from me. So this is great. I'm safe because he's there.” (09:30)
  • Ted was well-liked, polished, and ambitious—seen as a rising political star and involved in crime prevention (09:51).
  • Quote: “He wrote a pamphlet on rape prevention for women.” — Edna Cal Martin (10:08)
• Early Red Flags:
  • At a casual dinner, Edna observes Ted’s “jaw was clenched and his blue eyes were totally black. And he looked. I didn't even recognize him. He looked like a completely different person.” (11:54)
  • She later learned such “black eyes” are noted by both survivors and psychological experts as a sign of predatory intent (13:00).
  • Quote: “He was someplace else… and then he was fine, and I didn't really think anything of it, but he left almost immediately.” — Edna Cal Martin (13:26)

3. The Mask Slips — Worsening Behavior and Growing Unease

• Ted’s Privacy and Secretiveness:
  • Edna describes Ted refusing to let her (or even her brother) into his room, despite their closeness, and recalls seeing expensive items he shouldn’t have been able to afford (15:08).
  • Theories arose about Bundy stealing or keeping “trophies” from his crimes.
• Social Encounters and Manipulation:
  • On nights out, Edna felt used as a “prop” so Ted could scan dance floors, describing his detachment and intense focus on observing women (17:43).
  • Quote: “He’s just standing there… just scanning back and forth across the dance floor. Not paying attention to me at all.” — Edna Cal Martin (17:46)
• Animals Reacting to Ted:
  • Edna recounts a friend’s dog, Jeffy, exploding in rage at Ted upon entry, despite previous amicable encounters (19:00).
  • This incident happened after Bundy’s first documented attacks.

4. The Gradual Unfolding of Ted’s Crimes

• Rising Fear Among Women:
  • Edna and her friends became increasingly worried as attacks and disappearances of women around the University of Washington increased, often in their immediate vicinity (21:57).
  • Even after Bundy matched police sketches and witnesses mentioned a “Ted” driving a tan VW bug, Edna and her circle refused to believe he could be involved (24:51).
  • Quote: “It never in our wildest dreams did we think that it was our Ted.” — Edna Cal Martin (25:38)
• Denial and Trauma:
  • Edna describes the mental block preventing her from believing Bundy was capable: “He was this successful guy doing incredible things… It was just not our Ted.” (25:58)
  • Serial killer as a term didn’t exist at the time; the realization came only later.

5. Ted’s Arrest and the First Admission to Self

• Arrest in Utah and Family’s Denial:
  • When Bundy was arrested for kidnapping in Utah, Edna’s world was “absolutely blown away” (31:02).
  • Her first instinct: “This must be a mistake. We prayed that it had to be a mistake.” (33:16)
• Final Dinner and Chilling Realization:
  • After Bundy’s release on bail, Edna picks him up for dinner. At a group table when someone asks his last name, “He said it like he was really proud. And I didn’t expect him to answer that way.” (34:08)
  • Driving alone with him afterward, Edna bluntly asks, "Ted, did you… abduct and kill those girls?" He calmly denies it, insisting it's a mistake (36:50).
• Moment of Realization:
  • Later, Edna witnesses Ted at the university in a messianic, bizarre trance, turning in a crowd, arms out, chanting “I’m Ted Bundy.” (41:42)
  • Quote: “That's when I… had chills go through me… There’s a lot more to him than I think I know.” — Edna Cal Martin (43:00)
  • Afterwards in the car, “he’s looking back at me and he’s smiling and I go, oh, my God, he did it.” (45:05)
  • “I literally planned that I was going to crash my car if he made a move.” (45:21)

6. The Aftermath: Escape, Media Frenzy & Family Fallout

• Bundy’s Escapes & Communication
  • After a failed and then a successful jail escape, Ted called Edna and her brother seeking advice, tipping his intent to escape and even querying them on which states had the harshest death penalties—then fled to Florida (49:48).
  • Quote: “What would you think if I escaped?” — Ted Bundy (49:55)
• Mother’s (Louise Bundy) Suffering:
  • “I think she wanted to still believe in him… she was the last one to finally… accept that he was who he was. But she was holding out hope.” (54:50)
• Family Trauma:
  • The Bundy family was “shattered… left a swath of destruction,” and Edna reflects on the lasting impact not just on victims’ families, but on their own (55:12).
  • Quote: “We’re real people. We have lives, you know, and we were also devastated and traumatized by what he did.” (56:23)
• Florida Murders & Execution:
  • Bundy’s violence escalated quickly in Florida; his trial became a media circus, and he was executed in 1989.
  • Edna shares how the spectacle further traumatized the family and recalls the emotional burden of trying to reconcile the Ted she knew with his monstrous acts (63:28).
  • Quote: “On one hand, I completely understand… But on the other hand, it was hard not to think about the guy that I used to know.” (63:35)
• Letters from Ted:
  • Edna confronted Ted in letters, but he continued to deny murders to her, citing religious references and refusing to admit guilt, even as he confessed to police at the very end (60:47, 61:00).

7. Reflections & Lessons Learned

• The Nature of Evil:
  • Edna stresses the importance of trusting your instincts: “It's important to trust your gut… Even though I didn't pick up on it, there still were some signals that I ignored.” (70:50)
  • She doesn’t believe most people are like Bundy, but advises vigilance without succumbing to fear.
• Nature vs. Nurture Debate:
  • Edna recounts unsettling early behaviors from Bundy’s childhood (e.g., arranging knives), questions around his paternity, and mental health diagnoses, but admits, “That’s the million dollar question. I wish I had an answer for you, Julian.” (72:13, 73:21)
  • Quote: “What makes it so that those mental issues turn into such violent and viciously mean crimes…? That's just unbelievably awful.” (73:50)
• Public Fascination and Suffering’s Ripple Effect:
  • Edna laments society’s continued obsession with Bundy and true crime, describing the ongoing pain for countless families, including her own (74:01, 75:48).
  • Quote: “He would pop up, and I would go, damn. Damn, Ted. Go away… it would just shock me.” (75:58)

Memorable Quotes by Timestamps

• On discovering Bundy’s true nature:
  “He’s looking back at me and he’s smiling and I go, oh my God, he did it.” – Edna Cal Martin (45:09)
• The mask Bundy wore:
  “He wrote a pamphlet on rape prevention for women.” – Edna Cal Martin (10:08)
• On ignoring red flags:
  “It's important to trust your gut. Even though I didn't pick up on it, there still were some signals that I ignored.” – Edna Cal Martin (70:50)
• Denial and realization:
  “It never in our wildest dreams did we think that it was our Ted.” – Edna Cal Martin (25:38)
• On the family’s trauma:
  “We don't compare ourselves to the victims' levels, but it was pretty horrible what we went through.” – Edna Cal Martin (56:23)

Timestamps for Significant Segments

• Ted as a Child/Move to Washington: 05:46–07:02
• Early Red Flags: 11:54–13:15
• Social Interactions in College: 17:06–19:00
• Dog’s Violent Reaction & Timeline of Attacks: 19:00–22:29
• Growing Suspicion, Denial, and Bundy’s Arrest: 24:51–36:50
• Ultimate Realization at the University: 41:42–45:08
• Reflections on Bundy's Escape: 49:48–54:45
• Family Impact and Execution Aftermath: 54:50–66:35
• Nature of Evil and Ted’s Origins: 70:50–73:50

Final Reflections

Edna offers rare personal insight into the world behind the tabloid headlines—a perspective marked by staggering betrayal, ongoing trauma, and the complexities of loving someone capable of enormous evil. Her message is clear: trust your instincts, acknowledge evil’s existence but don’t let it consume life’s hope, and remember that devastation from crime spreads in ripples far wider than the headlines ever reveal.

Further Reading/Viewing:

• Edna’s book: Dark Tide: Growing Up with Ted Bundy (2024)
• Documentary: Love Ted Bundy (Released 2026)

For more on the regional history of serial killers and discussion on possible environmental influences, check the subscriber-only episode referenced at the end.