I Accidentally Turned ‘The Macarena’ Into a Global Phenomenon

Summary

What It Was Like: Episode Summary - "I Accidentally Turned ‘The Macarena’ Into a Global Phenomenon"

Release Date: July 25, 2025

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of "What It Was Like," host Julian Morgans delves into the fascinating story behind one of pop music's most enduring global hits: "The Macarena." Through an in-depth conversation with music producer Carlos Diaza, listeners are taken on a journey from the song's modest flamenco origins to its meteoric rise as a worldwide dance sensation. This episode explores themes of luck, timing, dedication, and the unpredictable nature of the music industry.

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Origin of "The Macarena"

The story begins in 1993 with the original version of "The Macarena," a flamenco-style tune by the Spanish duo Los Del Rio. Julian recounts his first encounter with the song as a child, noting its unusual popularity and the subsequent emergence of a dance inspired by crowd interactions.

Notable Quote:

"I was 8 when that song hit. I remember watching the video clips and wondering why there were so many different versions of this song."
— Julian Morgans [10:08]

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The Remix That Changed Everything

Fast forward to 1995, Carlos Diaza, a Miami-based producer and radio DJ, receives a request to remix "The Macarena" for Power 96—a prominent radio station seeking an English twist to cater to a broader audience. Despite his disinterest in the original song’s lyrics, Carlos seizes the opportunity, quickly producing what would become known as the Bayside Boys mix.

Key Points:

• Rapid Production: The remix was crafted in approximately 90 minutes, reflecting Carlos's efficiency and opportunistic mindset.
• Creative Approach: Instead of adding a rap, Carlos opted to give the female voice in the song a distinct identity, aiming to empower the character portrayed in the lyrics.

Notable Quote:

"I wanted to be the girl. I wanted to give her a voice. That was the most interesting way to tackle this project."
— Carlos Diaza [13:47]

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Unexpected Success and Legal Challenges

The remix quickly gains traction within specific Hispanic communities in the United States, leading to widespread radio play. However, this success attracts the attention of RCA Records, who view the remix as a potential infringement on their copyrighted material. Despite initial panic, a pivotal figure within RCA advocates for the song's release, recognizing its unprecedented potential.

Key Points:

• Legal Intervention: A determined RCA distributor prevents the company from ceasing the song’s distribution, ensuring its continued rise.
• Financial Gain: Carlos and his team receive a remix fee from RCA, marking a significant financial milestone in Carlos's career.

Notable Quote:

"There's nothing I can do. I cannot stop them playing the song. Why are you talking to me?"
— Carlos Diaza [17:42]

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Touring and Global Phenomenon

With RCA's backing, Carlos and his team embark on a rigorous tour schedule, performing in numerous venues and cementing "The Macarena" as a cultural staple. Their disciplined approach—likened to the "Navy Seals of music groups"—ensures consistent performances and professional management, even amidst the chaos of sudden fame.

Key Points:

• Touring Strategy: From June to December 1995, the team plays an intensive series of shows across major U.S. cities with significant Hispanic populations.
• International Reach: By 1996, the song achieves international acclaim, thanks in part to strategic radio play in New York and subsequent mainstream adoption.

Notable Quote:

"The sound of 100,000 voices singing back to you is something I always wanted."
— Carlos Diaza [57:20]

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Reflections on Success and the Music Industry

Throughout the conversation, Carlos reflects on the blend of luck and timing that propelled "The Macarena" to global fame. He emphasizes the unpredictability of creating a hit and the importance of dedication and perseverance in the highly competitive music industry.

Key Points:

• Hit-Making Magic: Carlos acknowledges that replicating the success of "The Macarena" is nearly impossible, attributing it to a unique combination of factors.
• Industry Insights: He critiques the music industry's litigious and self-serving nature, noting how it can both suppress and inadvertently promote success stories.

Notable Quote:

"Sometimes you get what you want, but not in the way you expected it."
— Carlos Diaza [57:20]

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Personal Choices and Lifestyle

Despite the rock star lifestyle that often accompanies sudden fame, Carlos shares his disciplined approach to touring, emphasizing professionalism over indulgence. His commitment to maintaining a stable and productive environment contrasts with the chaotic stereotypes of music stardom.

Key Points:

• Professionalism: Carlos and his team prioritized punctuality and reliability, avoiding the common pitfalls of excessive partying and substance abuse.
• Personal Sacrifices: He discusses the challenges of balancing personal relationships with the demands of constant touring, highlighting his decision to focus on work over fleeting indulgences.

Notable Quote:

"I just don’t have the time or energy."
— Carlos Diaza [43:29]

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Conclusion: Lessons Learned

The episode concludes with Carlos sharing profound insights on achieving one's goals. He underscores that success often arrives in unexpected forms and that adaptability and resilience are crucial in navigating the complexities of the music industry.

Key Points:

• Embracing Uncertainty: Carlos encourages listeners to remain open to unforeseen opportunities and to persevere despite challenges.
• Legacy of "The Macarena": The song remains a testament to what can be achieved through a combination of creativity, strategic thinking, and sheer luck.

Notable Quote:

"It feels better than anything you could possibly imagine. When that many people sing back to you, it hits you with physical impact."
— Carlos Diaza [58:46]

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Final Thoughts

Julian Morgans wraps up the episode by acknowledging the remarkable journey of "The Macarena" from a regional hit to a global phenomenon. Produced by Rachel Tuffery and mixed by Jimmy Saunders, the episode offers listeners an intimate look into the behind-the-scenes dynamics of the music industry and the serendipitous nature of pop culture successes.

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Credits

• Producer: Rachel Tuffery
• Mixer and Theme Music: Jimmy Saunders
• Cover Art: Rich Akers
• Intern: Ellie Dickey
• Production Company: Superreal

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For more engaging stories and intimate portrayals of extraordinary experiences, follow "What It Was Like" on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram. Subscribe to the podcast to never miss an episode.

Transcript

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[Marc Maron]

Acast powers the world's best podcasts.

[Julian Morgans]

Here's a show that we recommend.

[Marc Maron]

Hey, folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now, and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week. Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande. She just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah. I go, sorry, I lost my temper. I go, I still love you. You know, Daddy has issues. Are you afraid of it?

[Julian Morgans]

Of death?

[Marc Maron]

Of death?

[Julian Morgans]

Well, I don't.

[Marc Maron]

I think about it all the time.

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[Julian Morgans]

Acast.com super real.

[Marc Maron]

You know, I wasn't nervous until my lawyer or our lawyer called me about an hour later, right? And you know it's gonna be bad when the first words out of his mouth, out of our lawyer's mouth was, what have you done?

[Julian Morgans]

You know, oh, God, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I. And I said, david, what do you mean? And he goes, well, I just got a call from RCA and this and that. So I walked him through what we did and. And I said, but. But I still don't understand, why is this a problem? And then he says, well, the song is blowing up and they want to kill the song, right? So they want to cease and desist the song. And I said, david, there's nothing I can do. I cannot stop then playing the song. Why are you talking to me?

[Julian Morgans]

Hey, I'm Julian Morgans. And you're listening to what it was like, the show that asks people who have lived through big dramatic events what it was like. Hey, welcome. This week we're looking at viral cultural moments and we're bringing you two stories on that topic. So we've got this one, the one you're listening to right now, and then we've got one for our subscribers. And just quickly, the subscriber one's really fun. So I'm talking with a young woman named Grace, and she recently went to a Coldplay concert and she just happened to have her phone trained on the screen when the cameras picked out these two lovebirds in the audience. Now, as you might be guessing, these people responded in quite a paranoid way and Grace thought it was funny, so she put the video on TikTok. And I'm sure you know what happens next. That's our bonus episode this week. Go and check it out. Go and subscribe if you haven't. Now onto our regular episode. Do you remember the Macarena? I'm sure you do. It's that pretty average, extremely popular Spanish song with the dance. You know, the dance, Remember the dance? So I was about 8 when that song hit. And even back then I remember watching the video clips, there was like three or four of them and I remember thinking to myself, why are there so many different versions of this song? So I recently did some digging and what I found is that the Macarena has one of the strangest origin stories in pop music history. So it all started back in 1993 as this flamenco style tune by a Spanish duo called Los Del Rio. Now picture two older guys who look much more like businessmen than pop stars. They're very wedding singer esque. And they wrote this song about a Venezuelan dancer who they saw performing. And in Spanish circles the song really took off. And then somewhere along the way a dance emerged. And apparently that was inspired by the crowd interactions with the band. And then from Spain, the song filtered through Mexico and then into Miami, where it ended up in the hands of my guest, Carlos De Yata. So back in 1995, Carlos was a Miami based producer and a radio DJ friend asked him to remix the song with an English language twist. And he didn't think much of it. He didn't. He didn't actually think much of the song either. And he knocked it out in about 90 minutes. But that remix, it became the version, the version that you've heard at weddings, school discos and stadiums ever since. And you might know this version as the Bayside Boys mix. But here's the twist. The Bayside Boys didn't actually exist. This was just the name of Carlos's studio, Bayside Music. Carlos didn't even like the song. He thought the lyrics were dumb. As you'll hear today. But he saw an opportunity and he went all in and he made an absolute fortune doing it. So today's episode is about just that. It's about luck, timing, instinct, and the strange chemistry that takes an obscure regional song and transforms it into. Into a cultural phenomenon. And I think just quietly in the background, this story is also about the bloated, hyper litigious music industry at the end of the 90s that almost missed this opportunity and tried to sue it out of existence. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with Carlos Diaza. Carlos, welcome to the show.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so happy to be here.

[Julian Morgans]

Take me back to 1995. What was happening in your life at that time?

[Marc Maron]

So from about 1989, I was a young musician trying to make it in the pop world. I never did the rebellious garage bands. I always knew I wanted to do pop music and write hit songs and write songs for the world. So the studio was where I lived. No windows, always in the studio. Would go, get there in the morning, work till nighttime, maybe go out, go to sleep, come back the next day, back in the studio in early 95. That was my life. I didn't see the sun from 89 to probably, probably 2003 or so.

[Julian Morgans]

That's dedication. Sounds terrible.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it is. Well, you know, it's funny because I can tell you that I was never the most talented musician from the. From my crew that came together. I was definitely not the most talented. I was. I was not the most musical. I was not the greatest at any of it, but I was the most consistent. So I was there when it mattered. I was always there. I was there early, I left late. This was my life. There was nothing else except this.

[Julian Morgans]

Do you think the Macarena would have landed in your lap had you not had that kind of ruthless dedication?

[Marc Maron]

So that's part of the place and time part of the equation, right. I just happened to be there at that particular time. Now to rewind a little bit. During that time, I had a relationship with a local radio station which was famous because they would break new artists and break new songs or test new songs. So for them to test the stuff I was producing for myself or my projects that I was involved in, I would do favors for them. And those favors were remixes of songs or re edits of songs so that they could. They could stand out from the other pop station, all right, which was, you know, so they had a competition and they wanted their version of whatever the song was not to sound like the competition. So got it.

[Julian Morgans]

And this was power 96 in my.

[Marc Maron]

Yes, power. 90. Power. 96, yes.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

And Power was amazing because, you know, I could say, hey, guys, I have a new record that I want you to test. Can you play it on the song wars at Night and see if it gets any traction? Or could you play it in a mix and see if anybody likes it? You know, so it was a great relationship in that way.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. Okay. So do you remember the day that you got a phone call? Actually, let's start. Let's move back a little bit. I'm assuming that you'd heard the Macarena before you received this job. So can you tell me about the very first time that you heard this song?

[Marc Maron]

You know, I couldn't tell you the first time, but it was definitely somewhere in Miami, probably in 93 or 94, and probably at a club or some kind of night spot. But what I heard was the rumba version, the Los Del Rio original version of the song.

[Julian Morgans]

Do you recall your opinion of it when you heard it in 93?

[Marc Maron]

What I found interesting was that the people were line dancing. That more. More so than the song was that, oh, look, everybody is dancing together to this thing. And that's unusual in Miami. At the time, it was in other markets, if you go to, let's say, Texas, and in country western bars, they do line dances to everything. Every song has a particular line dance. Right. It's part of that culture. But here it wasn't so much like that. I mean, we had, you know, the classics, the Electric Slide, or, you know, Those kind of late 70s, 80s songs that have their own little cute line dance. But there had been nothing recent with the line dance.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, can you tell me about the day that you received a phone call to remix the Macarena?

[Marc Maron]

So my partner and I, Mike Triai, he worked with me in a studio. And previous to Mike working with me, he worked with a gentleman named Johnny Caride. Johnny was an associate DJ of par 96, not an on air DJ, but he would do remotes and location work for them. And Johnny came by the studio and he said, hey, the guys at Power want to play this record, but it's all in Spanish. They want you to do what you do to things, you know. And he dropped off this maxi CD single with several versions of the song and left. And so. And eventually Mike, you know, he left as well. So I was there, stuck. I said, okay, let me look at this. What is this that I'm listening to? But that day was probably a regular day where we were working on different Projects, different music. And again, the only reason we even said, okay, let's do this was because we knew that this would be currency with Power 96, again, to make sure that they helped us out with our own projects.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, right, yeah. It's interesting how you're describing this as not this lightning bolt moment. It's just regular day. You were kind of busy, sort of mildly stressed you out, other things going on. Okay. All right. And so just so we're clear, the brief here was Chuck in some english bits. Because Power 96 doesn't want to play a completely Spanish language song.

[Marc Maron]

Right. So they wanted a rap on it or they wanted, you know, something simple.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. Okay. All right. So when you finally got around to listening to whatever was in this package, you know, just walk me through that experience. You heard it was the Macarena. What did you think?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, I knew the song, so I hit play. But for the first time, it is possible. This was actually the first time that I paid attention to the lyrics. I'm a lyricist, I'm a songwriter, I'm a person that listens to lyrics. I know that there are a lot of people who love pop music who just like the beat and they like to dance, but I listen to every word, you know, and I love that part of the craft. So I started listening. So what is it that they're saying? So what I found interesting immediately is that these men, and the only reason I knew they were men is because Los Del Rio, two old men, older men at that point, they were probably in their 50s, early 50s, are telling a story about a girl, about a woman. She has no voice in this, so it's almost hearsay. So they're telling the story about this girl and they're describing this girl, and they're going on and on and on and on. And I said. And so something clicked in my head and I said, well, I don't want to write a rap on this. I want to be the girl. I want to be her voice. Let's give her a voice. So I thought that was the most interesting way to tackle this project.

[Julian Morgans]

So what do you do next?

[Marc Maron]

So I continue to listen to the remixes that are available on the. On the actual maxi, on the CD single. Right. And. And so out of all of them, I figured that the only one that would work for this market and for power was that more dancy, more European four on the floor, 303 bass mix, which is what you end up hearing. There was nothing magical about that either. It was just standard, standard Pop.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, okay. And then. Then tell me about inserting the lyrics.

[Marc Maron]

So, yeah, so then. Then the next part said, okay, who is this girl? Right. So the girl was girls I knew in Miami at that point. So, yeah, so she was a caricature of all these girls I knew that were just party girls that just came down here to party. So basically reversed their lyrics, but by her saying, somewhat empowers her a little bit more. And so I just wrote it down. I mean, it's super simple. There's no depth to those lyrics. It's just ridiculous. And then I went into. Well, I actually probably didn't even go in the booth. I probably just had a mic in my hand. I did it in the control room. I put a. A guide guide track down.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Which is how you do that and give it the attitude and what I needed and put that all down and that. Put the lyrics down. So then I had. I had basically the whole song, minus the voice, you know, But.

[Julian Morgans]

All right, so. So where do you find this girl to sing the song?

[Marc Maron]

So I don't know if there was. There's a band called Menudo. I don't know if they ever made it to Australia. They're a boy band from the 80s that were huge in Latin and South America. And I was producing for a version of Menudo, the next iteration of Menudo. And I was producing a few songs and writing a few songs on their coming record. And I met one of their friends who came to the studio to a recording session. And it was kind of like that thing where it's like a friend. A friend of the group's girlfriend that came in. And so we started talking, and I said, well, you know, I'll keep you in mind if any projects come, you know, come up. So when that came up, I sort of knew that she could do it because it was simple, you know, it's not an aria. You know, it's only like three notes in it. So I knew she could do it. So I called her up and I said, hey, I have this project. Do you want to come do it? So she just drove over and laughed when she heard the guide track and then went in the booth and I just produced the vocals, you know, with her singing what I had written and. And bringing a little bit of life to it.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. From start to finish. How long do you think it would have taken you to do all of this?

[Marc Maron]

I don't. I. I've always said that this. If you add up the time, the. You know, the listen, creation, write it down, record it, mix it, and send it out. It was no more than 90 minutes.

[Julian Morgans]

Easy minutes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Have you heard this song? It's just horrible. It's simple. It's not very complicated.

[Julian Morgans]

Would you have spent. Okay. Had you known that it was about to blow up and be heard by literally everyone on the planet? Would you have spent longer than 90 minutes working on it?

[Marc Maron]

You know, you can always look back and play that. But. But hindsight, how they say, is always 2020. Right. But I treated it as I would have treated that kind of project. It was a favor for Power 96. We weren't going to take a long time to do this. Let's just get it done and send it to them and move on to the next one. The next one was always the most important one.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, so was this girl happy with it? You played it back to her? Was she like. Oh, yeah, she.

[Marc Maron]

She was just shaking her head. I think that she's. She's more surprised by. I think, of everybody involved, she was the most surprised with all of the attention it garnered and everything it did afterwards. So for her, it was just like a fun afternoon in the studio. You know, a fun 30 minutes in the studio.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. Did it. Do you know if it went on to boost her career?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I know that she toured with us through 95, but then she wanted to get out, and the song had died down a lot in 95. That's part of the story. But she said, no, it's not what I want. It's not the image I want. It's not the song I want. And I said, yeah, nobody wants this. So I know she chased a little bit of that dream going into different groups. The girl groups were big in Orlando at that point because you had NSYNC and you had. You had Backstreet Boys. All of those people were being produced in Orlando. So she was up there for a bit. I. I know. I. I know she ended up marrying one of the new Kids on the Block. So that's. That's kind of interesting. Yeah, that's kind of cool.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. All right. So when do you first get any kind of feedback on it? Or, like, how do you know it's been received? And, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Well, so. So we know that they're playing it because we start to get phone calls at the studio. Hey, you guys. They said, bayside Boys on the radio. And I said, who are the Bayside Boys? Well, it turns out that One of the DJs on Power 96, his name is Dimas Martinez, and when he Played the song. He said, this is a new remix from the Bayside Boys. And the only reason he called us that is because our studio was called Bayside Music. So, you know, the. The. The. So he started just calling us the Bayside Boys as somebody that he knew. Right. And then the name stuck, and then the. And, you know, the phone calls kept coming. Hey, guys, this is playing. This is playing. And. And I mean, I was like, we're busy, man. We're trying to work here. Thank you. It's. Glad. I'm glad it's playing. This. This will give me leverage when I actually have a project that I want them to play.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, right. Were you surprised to be receiving calls? Did you have any feelings about that?

[Marc Maron]

That's a good question. I'm not sure. I was. I was happy that they were playing it, but it was for very selfish reasons. It was for the. The reason of. Okay, this is. This gives me currency. This gives me some kind of bartering power with them for the next. For the next project that I'm going to do. So that was basically the reason why it was a positive thing.

[Julian Morgans]

All right, let's take a step back to the. So you're getting some phone calls at the office, and you were kind of like, that's cool. Move on. I've got other things to do. Then what happened?

[Marc Maron]

Well, what happened was a phone call that. That was the most jarring. And I always play it out that the. You know, the phone rang and I answered and say, bayside Music. And. And they said, is this Carlos Deorzo? And I was like, yes. And they were like, I am lawyer, blah, blah, blah, blah. From RCA Records. Yes. How may I help you? Who is your lawyer? So I gave him my lawyer's name and his number. And when that happened, when RCA called the studio directly and then asked, they wouldn't even talk to me. They just asked for my lawyer. I knew that there had been some excrements hitting some fans somewhere.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's lucky you had a lawyer. If that had been me, I'd have just handed the phone to my friend who was sitting next to me or something. Okay, what. So what was the. What shit was hitting the fan somewhere?

[Marc Maron]

Well, so this gets a little bit into the weeds with the legality of things, Right? But a song has various owners, right? A song as we know it, right? So you have the songwriters, and they. They. They're responsible for the chord changes and the lyrics and the melody. Right. But once that song is recorded by a record label, the actual Recording itself is a copyrightable. So RCA owns this, this copyrighted object, which is the song and the remix of the song. Right. And so we basically took a copyrighted object and we changed it. Right, right.

[Julian Morgans]

Mixed it up.

[Marc Maron]

Yes. And therefore technically legal. Right. Now I, we again, you can get into the weeds of that because if you have a DJ mixing at a party, he's changing the recording. If you have a DJ talking over the beginning of a song at a radio station, he's changing the recording. But those are little wink wink things that the labels allowed. However, when they need to swing their hammer, they bring the law. Oh, you have modified our copywritten sound recording. Right. So that was basically their point of view at that point.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, and were you nervous?

[Marc Maron]

You know, I wasn't nervous until my lawyer or our lawyer called me about an hour later. Right. And you know it's going to be bad when the first words out of his mouth, out of our lawyer's mouth was what have you done?

[Julian Morgans]

You know, oh God, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I, and I said, his name is David. I said, David, what do you mean? And he goes, well, I just got a call from rca, this and that. So I walked him through what we did and, and I said, but, but I still don't understand why is this a problem? And then he says, which I did not know. Remember, you got to keep in mind this is pre, pre Internet or just the beginnings of Internet, but there's no, no real Internet or social as we know it. So there's no real way to get information quickly. And he tells me, well, the song is blowing up in all the power pockets, which are cities in the United States with a heavy Hispanic Latin population. Right. So Texas, Chicago, New York, San Diego. So all the places in the United States that have power stations that listen to Latin music. So the song is blowing up and they want to kill the song. Right. So they want to cease and desist the song. And I said, David, there's nothing I can do. I sent them a DAT tape that was, you know, I cannot stop them playing the song. Why are you talking to me? So, yeah, so, yeah, so that, that was going on behind the scenes. A few years later I found out that there was a gentleman is a distributor that worked at RCA that while everybody was panicking about this song being a hit and trying to kill it, this one guy at rca and I wish I knew his name or I wish I would have remembered his name. He is the only reason that Macarena became what it became. He was running down the halls and fighting with people at RCA saying, how are you going to kill this single? This is the biggest single since Elvis that RCA has had, you know what I mean? Since Elvis Presley. We cannot kill this song. Stop what you're doing. So he single handedly stopped the legal team and the powers that be at RCA Records from ceasing and desisting the song altogether. And then after that, we came to an agreement with them.

[Julian Morgans]

What was your agreement?

[Marc Maron]

Well, they decided to let the, let the song go on. They decided to pay us for the work we did, they decided to give us credit for the work we did and then they ran with it.

[Julian Morgans]

Hey everyone, we're going to take a quick ad break here, but stick around because we'll be right back with more.

[Marc Maron]

That is a gamble.

[Julian Morgans]

Money.

[Marc Maron]

Expunge your podcast. Okay, what is.

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[Julian Morgans]

I mean, how was this song earning money at the time though? Because no one could actually purchase your version? It was just being passed around on this DAT tape.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean again, remember, people are recording off of, off of the radio at this point still to a certain extent. Right. And they're just calling the stations. Can you play? Can you play, can you please play it? Can you play it again? So these stations were playing this song twice and three times an hour. Right. It wasn't as it is now, that you can call up on Spotify or Apple Music or Pandora the song you want, you were going to get whatever the radio served you. And the only way to try to influence that was by calling. So the phone lines were buzzing at all these radio stations. Play the song. Play this song. Play this song. So once RCA knew that they had something, they quickly, with the might of a then powerful record company, they produce product, they produce 12 inch singles, they produce CDs. And all of this started selling your recording? Yes. Right off the DAT tape. Right off the DAT tape. The DAT tape.

[Julian Morgans]

So did you export another copy and then send it over to rca?

[Marc Maron]

They asked for a DAT copy which, which, which had a couple of variations to it. I extended, you know, I fixed a couple of things that. Remember when you said if you would have known what Would you have changed? Right? Yeah, but I did change a couple of things, extended a couple of measures and fixed a couple of edits that I. That I didn't even care to fix the first time around. But it's very much the same. Like, I mean, if you ab. It is very hard to tell.

[Julian Morgans]

Wow, okay. And did they pay you for this?

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Julian Morgans]

How much did you get paid at that point?

[Marc Maron]

It was a remix fee. It was pretty low. It was a few thousand dollars. It wasn't that much.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, were you, I mean, you know, you're a young guy starting out in the music business. Were you pleased? Were you kind of like, oh, you know, I got a couple of thousand bucks from rca.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I mean, it was more than zero. Right. So which is what I was, you know, so was it what I would get otherwise? And we thought it would just d. The only good thing is that they gave me credit as a songwriter, which would come in handy later, you know, because that's a different kind of copyrighted and that's a different type of royalty. But I never expected this to. I never, never expected this to blow up. Nobody did. But that's. That sort of changed about a month into a month and a half into it, because RCA called again, much friendlier this time and, and said, hey, the two old men cannot or will not tour in America. Like, they will not tour not in America or anywhere to support this. And we think we have a really good product. I was laughing and they said, how would you guys like to go on the road? And I said, okay. So we put on a, we. We put a show together and like, you know, 30 minute, 40 minute show with different dance music and fun stuff and glitter and leather and glam and makeup and just madness.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And we hit the road. But in that, that first year, in 95, summer of 95 to December of 95, and it died off, died off in November really. So June, July, August, September, October. Those few months, we did a ton, a ton of smaller club venues.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. Do you feel like this period sort of quenched your, your thirst to like be a musician, you know, to have big audiences and that kind of stuff?

[Marc Maron]

Not really. This was, this wasn't yet. It wasn't big enough to, to. To make a dent in what I had already done. That will, that will come though. That's going to come soon.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. All right. Okay. All right. So. So you say it sort of petered out towards the end of 95. What happened?

[Marc Maron]

Basically it had its course on in the pockets of the United States that. That where the Latin populations were, Right. They. They had it on the radio, they burnt it out, and then it was done as most songs. Right. But those pockets were segregated and were not really mainstream. They were urban radio stations that played American music, but definitely segregated from the mainstream, especially back then. So the song ran its course, its natural course, as any pop song does.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, okay. But then I understand that it picked up again in 96 with a video clip. Can you tell me about that?

[Marc Maron]

Well, the clip was already out in 95. Right. And that was another problem because RCA went ahead and recorded the video. And, you know, we were shouting at them at that point. Hello, we are out there on the road, and we're not in the video. What are you doing? And then that. That caused some confusion when we were booked because we would show at this place and the people were looking for these two old men.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And they weren't. They weren't getting the tools. Men. The video for the Bayside voice remix of the Macarena features Los Del Rio. They're not playing instruments on it, they're just singing. But it's them singing the chorus, and then they have random models mouthing the female lyrics badly that you wrote. Yeah. I mean, not a big deal, but, I mean, at least do it correctly.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, so this video clip's getting around, which is kind of causing headaches for you out on the road. And then what happens?

[Marc Maron]

So. So, like I said, the song just kind of peters out in end of 95. And then, you know, we were tired. It was a lot. It was a very hard four months. Five months. And so we were, in a way, thankful that we had a breather. And then in 1996, in January of 1996, New York launches a new pop dance radio station. And New York hadn't had a proper dance station in many, many years. So when this station launched, it was a phenomenon, and the listenership shot through the roof because people had access to. On the radio, to the type of music that they had been missing. And the program directors at KTU in New York start burning Macarena like, three times an hour. And then what happens then is that the world does as New York does pretty much. Right. So they set the trends beyond isolated pockets, beyond isolated populations. How the song says, if you can make it there, you'll make it anywhere kind of thing.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Once they start playing it, pop stations around the country pick it up. And then it just. It just blows up all over again in a different, much bigger way.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. Right. Because now it's targeting like white America.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Julian Morgans]

Instead of just Spanish communities.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. What was your feeling at this time? You know, like, was this overwhelming for you personally?

[Marc Maron]

No, it was a. Here we go again. Let's make this better. We. The original studio singer, she left the group. She wasn't really into that vibe, so she left to do her own thing. We recruited a different singer, a different friend also that came through Menudo and she just filled that spot. And we hit the road again, but again, very focused. We were just. We're going to do every show we're going to do. We change. We change booking agents, by the way. Much bigger booking agency, access to bigger places, bigger venues, bigger shows, you know, so everything grew for that second half.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. We were. How did RCA feel about. Because you'd get kind of ended up inside this snowball accidentally. You weren't the original musician. You were just kind of like the guy who happened to do the version that stuck. But there was so many versions. So I'm just wondering, did you ever get any sense from people in management at RCA that was like, oh, why Carlos? Why is he along for the ride? Was there any of that?

[Marc Maron]

We didn't really communicate with him very much. Um, everything. All the communication was through. Through lawyers and through. And through their agents. I didn't think that. I don't think they had. They didn't care. You know, for them it was just making money. Yeah. Just a hit. In fact, that the. The next interesting part is that we signed to as. As the Bayside Boys, established now as this group or band or project we signed, but we signed with Atlantic Records, not rca. So they didn't even.

[Julian Morgans]

Why was offer.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know. I just don't. I don't think they were interested. I think there were people inside RCA that still believed that the. The only valid version of this song was the original 1993 Los del Rio mix. So we were feeling that backlash and that backlash was like. Even though the song that. That was blowing up worldwide at this was our version, but they were still sort of resentful about that. Wow.

[Julian Morgans]

So it's an interesting through line that I'm hearing here is that like just as a business music, the. The music industry was just such like a bloated, self important, litigious beast in into the late 90s, you know, like 100%. It flows into that whole like Metallica Napster thing just so, so logically from what you're describing.

[Marc Maron]

Do you know the Hunter S. Thompson quote about the music business?

[Julian Morgans]

I've Heard it. But please, please.

[Marc Maron]

It goes something like this. The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench. A long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.

[Julian Morgans]

That's brilliant. It's good. Good twist at the end as well. It's also a negative side.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah. They. They really had it coming.

[Marc Maron]

So. So, yeah, so it was all those things you said. It was a. It was a very established old school business and. And that was their doom in the end, really, if you think about it.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was so ripe for disruption and so blind to the notion that they would ever be disrupted.

[Marc Maron]

Yep.

[Julian Morgans]

Jeez. All right. So you got sort of round two. I mean, did round two, like just to take it back to finances. Did that kind of set you up?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it was buckets of money again because we were doing so many shows. And then of course, we. As the song climbed higher on the Billboard charts and started charting all over the world, our rates went up. And where most people. We were very self contained, a bunch we traveled well, I chose very super wisely. The show ran like clockwork. We were never late, we never destroyed hotel rooms. We always made our flights. You know, it was like. It was a. It was like the. The Navy Seals of. Of music groups.

[Julian Morgans]

We were hitting everything all around the Macarena, which is this like frivolous, silly kind of song celebration of. Of whatever. And you guys were the Navy Seals of that. Of that business.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it was. We were. We were militant about getting all the shows we could because that was the best and easiest source of income. And I just wanted. I never wanted dysfunction in whatever I was doing. I wanted things to work.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. What was your single biggest rock star indulgence during this period?

[Marc Maron]

I think. And this wasn't. This is nothing that we paid for. This was paid by. Mostly by promoters, old school promoters that wanted to impress us. But our group was able to fly in a lot of private aircraft and smaller aircraft to get us from place to place. And I think that was, to me, I love aviation. I'm a flight nerd. So for me, that was the best thing. Oh, we're gonna get on this G4 today, or we're going to get on this whatever plane today to fly from point A to point B, because they needed the show that day. And our booking agent would say, well, they can do it, but they're 800 miles away, so you need to somehow get them from here to there, that kind of thing.

[Julian Morgans]

You were like I'm going to take a really luxurious Gulf stream that will.

[Marc Maron]

Solve the problem that that's what they would send. And we're. I was not going to turn it down.

[Julian Morgans]

No, that's right, that's right. And, and did sort of wild group sex and, and drugs enter your life at all during this period.

[Marc Maron]

So that there was. I'm going to tell you a funny story, right, so I'd love to hear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So at the time I had a, a very jealous girlfriend in Miami, right? So again, we had one cell phone, we had a Motorola startac. For you old people that know what that is, it never worked. It was always out of range. This is the very beginnings of cell service. And to make a 10 second call was like $800. So the only reason we use this was for emergencies and, and for our lawyer to call us and tell us what was happening, right. And, or our booking agent if we were on the road. So my very jealous girlfriend says, you are out there and you're doing all these rock star things. And I know because my friends tell me what happens and you're out and you go to the shows and then you have these wild, you know, crazy orgies with sex, drugs and rock and roll. And I was like, okay, you know what? I. Hold on a second. So I pick up the phone and I call the booking agent and said, I want an extra seat for everything we're doing for the next two weeks. And he goes, no, but that's going to. I said, I want an extra seat for everything we're going to do for the next two weeks. So they were kind enough to book an extra seat. And then I said, okay, now you're coming with me. And she lasted three days. She could not hang.

[Julian Morgans]

Why? Why?

[Marc Maron]

Because this was a typical, this was a typical week, right? Monday, fly out to City X, get to City X, rest set up. Next morning, 6am Radio. Morning radio, right? Three, two or three different stations per market. Go back to the hotel, try to get some rest, fail, go to the venue that you're going to play next, do sound check, come back to the hotel, try to eat, try to rest, fail, hit the next venue. They have to sound check on, come back, get dressed, hit the, hit the first show of the night, exhaust yourself completely, breathe, change, get in a limo or a bus or a van or wherever we were going to do. Hit the next venue, do that, come back to the hotel. It's now 3:30 in the morning. You're wired beyond belief from this last show, right? And Then in two hours, you have to be on the next plane to the next city, Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. And then we would maybe have a couple of days off here and there, but it was non stop. So my thing that I told her was like, look, it's not that the temptation is not out there. You know, we are playing huge venues in amazing cities and anybody that's on stage is going to get the opportunity to do anything he wants or she wants, but I just don't have time. Even if I wanted to, I don't have the time or energy.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. Wow. Because you, I mean, you were making a choice though. You were making a choice to stick to the schedule. Whereas a lot of people faced with temptation, they just blow off the schedule. They're like, you know what, don't worry about it. I mean, it's going to show up when I'll sleep on the plane tomorrow. That's the usual rock star approach. So what held you back?

[Marc Maron]

I think that I understood at some level that this was an opportunity that would end. So I wanted to, I had people who were touring with us that had an opportunity, like me, to make some cash and they were my friends and I wanted everybody to do this huge cash grab as much as possible as quickly as possible because I knew it was a ticking clock, that it would end eventually.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, so that's interesting as well. You didn't fall into the sort of the, the rock star ego thing of like, oh, this is my life from now on in, like, I've made it, I'll be famous and rich forever. Like it always felt finite to you?

[Marc Maron]

Well, see, at that point I, I had already been in the industry long enough to understand that the people who, who made it are not the, the crazy rockstar people, but the people that show up to work, right? It, it, there's a reason why certain people last so long, right? And the, and people, people wonder, and I'm sure they have. If you have a long enough career, you're going to have periods where you're going to fall off the wagon or, you know, experiment with doing wacky stuff. But the consistent people are the people who show up for interviews, the people who hate what they're supposed to do. As long as, as soon as you start showing a little crazy, people don't want to deal with you. So we, I just never wanted or, nor did I feel that this was enough of a, of a hit to keep me in the style I was accustomed to for the rest of my days, you know.

[Julian Morgans]

So how much money did you make in total during this period, I can tell you.

[Marc Maron]

What I can tell you is that I made a lot of but I shared it because I was young and I was living my life and what I wanted to do was be generous with my friends and buying equipment and just living life. We had a really good run.

[Julian Morgans]

Hey, this bit of music means it's time for an ad break. But please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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[Julian Morgans]

Did you, I mean, did you finish your 20s with, you know, a stock portfolio or a house?

[Marc Maron]

No, no, no. I had the opportunity and I did not. Which, you know, it just. That's just life.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah. So how did it end?

[Marc Maron]

So, okay, so it's 96. From January to the summer of 96, it becomes number one on Billboard, stays there for 14 weeks. That summer was that craziness expanded to international. Well, actually before that, it had already gone international. We had been to Austria and Germany. We had been to Chile. We had plans to go to Southeast Asia. For some reason. We went to all of 96. That kept going all of 97. And then in 98, it started to slow down. The brakes started to come on a little bit.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. And did you eventually get to the part where you were like, all right, let's. Let's just call it, let's not be the last ones to leave the party or. I don't know, what was the answer?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, no, no, absolutely. Absolutely. That conversation with the booking agent became, okay. So nothing below this as far as people, you know, TV shows only at a certain level. Like, I don't want to go do Patty and John's Crab Shack anymore. Like, there's no need to do that. You know, shout out to Patty and John's Crab Shack if you're still there.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, so. So when this sort of finished up, when the. When you, like, at what point did you return to your regular civilian life?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, all through. All through. 97 and 98 was still doing, you know. You know, come back to the studio. We, you know, we started being contracted to do remixes for other people. Everybody wanted the next Macarena, so we. We worked with the Spice Girls, we worked with Gina G. We worked with the Beach Boys. I mean, and countless other people that were coming saying, hey, make this the next Macarena. And it's like, it's not that simple. It's not. It's not just this. There's a lot of things that went, you know, but they didn't care. They just. So, you know, we did what we could, that we. We were signed by Gloria and Emilio Estefan's label here in Miami, and then we just moved on to different projects.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. So, I mean, it kind of set you up in a lot of ways. Like, before the Macarena, you were doing freebies for the local radio station, and then after that, you were working with the Spice Girls and, you know, the Beach Boys, and you were like. It was a catalyst.

[Marc Maron]

Well, a little bit. But before the Macarena was also working with Menudo, which is a worldwide group, Hispanic group. I had my own projects, had already played regionally, and we had. We had done, you know, small, smaller tours on that. So. So what I like to say is that I had a long career, right? And I had a career before the Macarena, and I had a career after the Macarena, and both periods were successful, except that was a giant. Giant blip. Like a giant. You know, if you. If you're graphing it, you know, you're doing okay. You're doing okay. And then there's this, like, massive spike. And then, you know, still okay. Still okay. Until I decided, okay, enough of this.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Do you.

[Julian Morgans]

I mean, it's an incredibly positive song, to your point. Like, you can't listen to that song and not kind of smile a bit despite yourself. But. But do you like the song?

[Marc Maron]

Do I like the song? I mean, no. To be, you know, from a music critic kind of point of view. No. I don't, I. But I do understand what it is. Right. So sometimes you, you don't like something, but you don't know why. I know why I don't like it. It's. I don't. I think the lyrics are, Are cheesy. I think the sing songy melody is just that, you know, I, I like Sting, I like the Bee Gees, I like, you know, I like musicality in pop music. I love Max Martin, Taylor Swift, you know, I love, I love pop music that. I love pop music that is catchy and tells a cool story. Right. So that song is none of that. So from just a musical perspective. No, I don't, I don't care for it very much, but I do understand why it works.

[Julian Morgans]

And from a lyrical perspective. Do you like the song?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I could tell you that it captures a. It captures a person. Right. It captures a type of person. Right. And it captures that type of person enough so that enough people saw themselves in it to. To make it their anthem.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So I guess at some level it worked, but from a purely storytelling and melodic point of view, it's not, it's. It's. It's trash.

[Julian Morgans]

That's funny. You said that there was a lot of people coming to you in the years after being like, hey, Carlos, give us the next Macarena. And do you largely believe that a global phenomenon like that is a product of timings? It's basically a product of luck?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it is luck and timing and place and, and situation. There's no way to recreate it. And every time. I, I only tried. I only tried once after. After much prodding from the record label. Right. So. But it ended up that what they released wasn't even. I mean, it was related somewhat, but it wasn't even close.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. So, I mean, so it sounds like you didn't even really try. You said you did that out of spite. If someone held a gun to your head and said, hey, Carlos, I'm going to blow your head off if you don't give me a global phenomenon, do you think you'd have a crack at it?

[Marc Maron]

No, because, I mean. Yeah, well, with the gun to my head, I'll fire her up, but I just don't think that that's the way that works. Right. So if you look at the charts and you read the authors, there's very few. There are very few teams that are actually doing amazing stuff. And I don't know if you know a YouTuber named Rick Beato, He's a music guy and he Just talked about this, and he's an experienced musician, and he said, yeah, all these perfect pop songs are coming from maybe four or five teams. So I know where to go. So if I want to make a global hit, I know where to go.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, okay. But I guess what I'm prodding out here, what I'm doing, trying to hold a microscope over is. Is this, like, how do you make a hit? You know, like, it just seems like there's a bit of black magic to it. And, I mean, you're just. You're saying that there's like four or five teams who can reliably do it around the world.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Julian Morgans]

Like. Like, why, why, why those guys?

[Marc Maron]

So a pop song is singable, it is catchy, and the words are relatable. Right. And it's been the same through history. I mentioned the Bee Gees earlier, your product. Right. These guys were not just writing for themselves, but they wrote hits for other people. So they were successful because they understood good melody and good writing and. And good lyrics. So the magic is in putting something together and being discerning enough to keep only the bits that are catchy, that are going to work, and keep only those lyrics that people are going to really relate to, and it's going to resonate. And there are some people who. Who are just better at that now, you know.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, Carlos, last. Last question. Through this experience, what did you learn about getting what you always wanted?

[Marc Maron]

That's a really good question. What I learned about getting what you always wanted is that it may not come in the way you expected it to come. You asked me, did you ever feel that big rock and roll thing? And we never got to it. But I do remember the first time we played a venue which probably there were a hundred thousand people there in the summer of 96, and I was singing with a crowd back and forth. And the sound of that crowd, the power of 100,000 voices singing back to you is something that I did always want. Right. But I can tell you that it didn't come in the form that I always hoped it would be. Right. So sometimes you get what you want, but not in the way you expected it.

[Julian Morgans]

And did that feel as good as you'd hoped, even though it wasn't quite what you expected?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. It feels better than anything you could possibly imagine. When that many people sing back to you, it hits you with physical impact.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. Wow, that's interesting. I kind of thought, for some philosophical reason, that you'd be like, you know what, Getting what you've always wanted. Is not that good.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Julian Morgans]

You just like getting a big audience to sing your lyrics back to you Feels good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. That's the best thing before Macarena. Like I could tell you that one of the best feelings ever was I was in my car in Miami and the windows of the car I had convertible, so my windows or everything was down so I I could hear the radio on all the cars around me and a project that I was singing on had hit the radio. This is probably like 91 way before Macarena and and all the cars around me, all the radios were playing my song. And that's. I cannot begin to tell you what that feeling is like. It's an amazing feeling.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. That's so cool. Carlos, this interview has been an amazing feeling. Thanks so much for talking with me. I've really enjoyed this. Today's episode was produced by Rachel Tuffery. It was mixed by Jimmy Saunders, who also did our theme music. Our cover art is by Rich Akers. Ellie Dickey is our intern and this whole thing has been a super real production.

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