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John Romano (1:51)

Subaru. You know, I left behind like a little like 5 second video clip just saying I'm sorry to my mom, to my family. And that was it. I finished off the suicide note. I packed the shotgun in its case, packed my book bag, even though I, you know, I just was carrying all that to blend in. And I set off like it was any other day going to high school.

Julian Morgans (2:21)

Hey, I'm Julian Morgans and you're listening to what it Was like. The show that asks people who have lived through big dramatic events what it was like. Hello and welcome back. So I recently watched this movie called the drama, you might have seen it. It stars Zendaya and Robert Pattinson as this just impossibly good looking couple. And they're about to get married. And there's this moment, a bit of a spoiler here, where they're sitting around and they're drinking wine with some friends and they're talking about the worst thing that they've ever done as, you know, kind of a provocative piece of around the dinner table conversation. And Zendaya's character admits that as a teenager she almost committed a school shooting. And that revelation is a big moment. It's kind of the inciting incident in the film and it causes their relationship to unravel and hence the title of the movie, the drama. Anyway, so I was watching this movie and I. I kept thinking, you know, there are very few identities that are more radioactive than school shooter. I think it's one of the few crimes that just totally strip someone of their humanity and for good reason. Schools are supposed to be this safe in innocent place, and attacking one is just particularly horrifying. But this did get me thinking, what actually happens to someone after they become a school shooter? So to find out, I'm speaking with a guy named John Romano, who in 2004 took a gun to school, but now works as a mental health advocate. As you'll hear, John grew up in a pretty unstable environment. There was a lot of abandonment in his house, a lot of abuse, and eventually, overwhelmed by trauma, he brought a rifle to school, intending to take his own life. A few shots were fired, someone got injured, but no one died. And John says that his goal was never mass murder, it was only suicide. Now, this is a heavy conversation, and heads up. It includes a discussion of childhood sexual abuse, but it's also a conversation about shame, redemption, and what it means to keep on living after you've become public enemy number one. And I gotta say, after talking with John, I actually found myself empathizing with him. So it seemed only fair that I'd get some input from a survivor, you know, someone who's actually survived a school shooting. So for subscribers this week, I'm speaking to a teacher who was injured at the Parkland school shooting in 2018. And I ask her, how does she make sense of a school shooter who's now speaking publicly and expressing remorse? You know, what does she think of that? That's for our subscribers, but for the moment, here is this week's guest, John Romano. Hey, John. Welcome to the show.

John Romano (5:20)

Thank you so much for having me.

Julian Morgans (5:22)

So let's go back to Your childhood, I assume this was the 90s. You and I are about the same age, actually. I was born in 86. I think you're 87. So we sort of.

John Romano (5:32)

Yeah, that's right.

Julian Morgans (5:33)

Came at age. At similar times. So can you take me back to the 90s and just sort of tell me a little bit about how you grew up?

John Romano (5:40)

Yeah. So for the most part, my childhood, when people ask about it from the outside looking in, it appears somewhat normal. I come from a family where my father left when I was about 4 years old, and he. He took off, and he didn't even want visitation rights or he didn't really want much to do with me in the beginning, which I don't really remember. But I can kind of remember the. The feeling of, you know, a lot of kids blame themselves, and I think that there was somewhat of that going on. And I struggled with that a bit, as many kids do, but. But that also kind of plays in part in what happened, you know, in the next year or two afterwards where I was about five or six years old, when I like to openly talk about the fact that I was groomed and sexually abused. And I talk about that because it's important not only for men and boys to know that it does happen and it's okay to talk about it, but because I would later on hold a lot of guilt and shame thinking I had done something wrong. But I bring it up also in the same line of my father leaving, because some of the red flags that popped up in my early childhood, some people just thought, like, I was struggling with the divorce, I was struggling with my father leaving. And that's why I was showing, you know, the signs of sucking my thumb all of a sudden and doing things like acting out a little bit, when in reality I was struggling with this abuse that was happening to me. And I had no idea what was happening, but there was definitely a part of me that was fighting against it. But like I said, from the outside looking in, nobody knew about that. And it wasn't until I was 12, 13 years old that the bigger red flags would start to pop up. And even I myself recognized that something was a bit off with me, that I was struggling a lot more than other kids my age, or that I felt that I was struggling even more than adults would. So I kind of showed some of those stereotypical red flags of my grades started to slip. I went from, you know, the B's and the A's to the C's, D's. I was failing classes by the time I was a freshman in high school. I quit playing baseball, I quit playing everything else. And I was also with friends, I was doing a little bit of smoking and drinking and even getting high by the time I was 13, 14. And it was not only me just lashing out a little bit, but it was the self medicating, the lacking that passion and enjoyment that I had for the usual things because this was like the early onset of depression because I felt that there was something wrong with me from not only the sexual abuse, but my father leaving. And even when the sexual abuse ended because I had been groomed to believe that you, you know, the, the, you know, this horrible thing that was happening to me was actually an act of love. Right. That's what they had said to me. When it ended, I felt like I had done something wrong. And I tell people that very openly because, you know, a six or seven year old child feeling like when the rape stops, that I felt I had done something wrong for this person to then leave me. You know, I felt like again, here it is, somebody who supposedly loves me, leaves me and, and there's something wrong with me. And I honestly believe that, especially later on when I started to kind of grapple with the, with the abuse and when I started to grapple with, you know, what does this mean about me? And so I internalized so much of this and I really began to think, not only is something wrong with me, but I can never talk about this stuff with anybody. I felt alone in it and I felt like I couldn't open up about it.

Julian Morgans (9:31)

That's horrible. It's a, it's a crime that always seems to perpetuate this issue where you feel like you did it somehow.

John Romano (9:39)

Yeah. And I don't bring this up to ever put any type of blame or justification in what I would later do, you know, when I was 16 years old. But I bring it up because it's a piece of the puzzle that played a part in what happened later on in my life. And I also bring it up so that other people know that they can open up, you're not to blame for you didn't do anything wrong. And I wish I had realized that when I was younger.

Julian Morgans (10:01)

Yeah. So, I mean, I don't, I don't want to zoom in on it too hard, but I understand this was your brother actually, which. Yeah, for me there's this whole other layer of, of shame around that too.

John Romano (10:13)

Yeah. So it's, it was my half brother on my father's side. So when my father left, he took My half brother, you know, went with him. And then when my father. Dad did want some type of relationship, did want to invite me for, like, every other weekend visitations, that's when it would be going on, is my dad would either be taking a nap, I remember, or sometimes my dad would, you know, go out for a little while and leave us, because My brother was nine years older than I was. So when I'm five, six years old, you know, he's already 14, 15 years old. And so my. My dad trusted leaving him to watch over me, not knowing what was really happening.

Julian Morgans (10:54)

And so you carried this weight for years and years into your adolescence. And I understand eventually you told your mom that you were really struggling and she organized some therapy for you.

John Romano (11:05)

Yeah, so I did open up to my mom about certain things. By the time I was about 14, 15 years old, there was one day when I was in school that, you know, I was able to call my mom crying, and I just said, you know, there's something wrong with me. I can't. I can't do this anymore. I can't go another day. I can't go another hour. Something's wrong with me. I don't feel right. I. I just don't feel the same anymore. I need help. And so my mom did what she could. She came and she picked me up from school, and she brought me to see my doctor as soon as she could. And, you know, that's when the doctor started to ask me about the psychological questioning and had I ever thought about hurting myself and. Yes. Have I ever thought about killing myself? Yes. And he said, well, can I trust you not to do that? Can I trust you to. To, you know, believe that we can help you in this moment? We're going to get you into therapy. We're going to get you some medication. And, you know, I told the doctor, yes. And they. They got me in to see a psychologist and a psychiatrist. They got me on medication right away. My mom thought, okay, I'd opened up to her. I'd opened up to this doctor, and that we were going to get on the right path and that I was going to get the help that I needed.

Julian Morgans (12:23)

Okay. And can you just run me through that. That journey? Because I understand you're on different medications.

John Romano (12:29)

Just.

Julian Morgans (12:30)

Just sort of walk me through that process.

John Romano (12:31)

Yeah. So in the beginning, they started me off on, you know, the antidepressants, and that would kind of turn into some medications also for anxiety. That then when I was struggling with that, I also kind of hit the point where a Lot of people, you know, I've been taking medications for maybe only a month or two. I can't really remember exactly, but in my mind I'm thinking, especially as a kid, a month or two has gone by, nothing's happened, I, I don't feel much better. Nothing's ever going to get better. And I attempted to kill myself and I would end up ironing. You know, I took, I got very, very drunk, took a lot of medications, you know, just grabbing pills, handfuls of pills, thinking, you know, I didn't know exactly how to kill myself. I didn't research it, but I just know like people take a lot of pills and mix it with alcohol. So that's what I did. And thankfully, obviously it didn't kill me. But I woke up and I was just violently ill for the next couple of days. My mom thought that I had some type of stomach flu or stomach virus and, and I got better. But eventually, you know, I was also self harming, I was cutting myself at this time period as well. And so when that got recognized, my mom asked me if I'd be willing to go into a psychiatric unit and to get more in depth therapy and help. And I agreed to it. And while I was in there, they started me on antipsychotics. So now I also end up on like a cocktail of medications that can obviously help people. But sometimes, especially when we're dealing with adolescents, we don't know how this mixture of medication is going to work. And so now I'm on three, four different medications. I'm struggling to sleep, so they throw me on Ambien to help me sleep. And yeah, I was on all different types of meds that I still didn't always feel that great. I felt a lot of times like a zombie, which is kind of, you know, what I, what a lot of people experience, unfortunately when they're on certain medications. And I, I really was struggling with a lot of different things at that period. I felt that I wasn't seeing progress again. I didn't talk about some of the serious issues, you know, because we can't just take these pills and expect them to magically make our lives better. We also have to open up. And I wasn't willing to open up all the way. I was willing to talk about some superficial things. I was willing to talk about, you know, wanting to kill myself because I was depressed and I just didn't feel joy in life. But I didn't talk about the sexual abuse, I didn't talk about some of the other, like, you Know, just feelings of being unloved by most people. I just didn't open up, and I wish I had. I think so often we think vulnerability is a weakness, when in reality, I've learned as. As an adult that vulnerability is a strength.

Julian Morgans (15:28)

Yeah, absolutely. But I think vulnerability is learned. I think it often comes with maturity. It's almost like the default setting is defensiveness. And in this sort of like, I'm fine, it's all, everything's okay. I think you need to learn to be authentically yourself, and it's hard.

John Romano (15:45)

I think we also need to feel that we're in an environment where it's okay to be vulnerable and where not only where we can open up, but that when we do open up, those around us will know how to handle our emotions and be able to hopefully help us in one way or another.

Julian Morgans (16:00)

Yeah. So you're obviously really struggling at this point, and then hunting gets suggested as a bit of a pastime. Could you tell me how. How this came into your life?

John Romano (16:12)

Yeah. So, well, this is gonna, like, fast forward a little bit closer to the shooting that happens when I'm 16, and my older brother, the one who actually had been abusing me, he had been in the military, and he was finishing up his time in the military. He'd done tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and he was getting ready to basically return back to New York. And he wanted to reestablish, I think, more of a brotherly relationship with me. And he was trying to kind of get back into my life a bit. And one of the things that he suggested that he wanted to do was to go hunting with me. And I've been around guns a little bit, but obviously when my depression and I was going through psychiatric treatment, there was a time period where I hadn't been. And my mom wanted me not to be anywhere near guns, obviously. But now when we're talking about this time period is literally months before the shooting. I'm on the outside looking like I'm doing a little bit better with my mental health. And my brother suggests this as, you know, it's very common thing in upstate New York. You know, hunting is a big way of life for a lot of people. And. Yeah, so I'm kind of getting excited at the thoughts of not only go back to firing ranges again, but to be able to go out and go hunting. And I bring this up to my mom, and, you know, and she's still like, hell, no. You know, she. She wants me nowhere near a gun still, which she was quite right for. But I would bring it up to my psychiatrist and my psychologist, and I'm basically at this point telling them, like, it's been almost a year, I'm doing better, like, things are going well, and I'm basically just trying to, like, get what I want as a kid. And again, I never fully opened up to either of them about, like, the depths of my depression and anxiety and everything going on in my life. So at this point, they had started to kind of like, wind me off of some of the medications and were saying, yeah, no, I mean, you know, as long as I'm with my brother, if I'm going to the firing ranges with my mom or somebody, yeah, there's no reason for. For that to happen. You know, the gun would obviously be locked up at the house. So they literally brought my mom in at the end of one of my therapy sessions and told my mom, you have your son back. Those are the words that she and I still remember, because in her mind, hearing those words, you know, she for a while was afraid of coming home and finding me dead. She was afraid that, you know, she would come home and I would have had, you know, cut my wrists open or hung myself or done something. And at this point now she's thinking, like, I don't have to worry about that anymore. I have my son back. And so she's like, yeah, okay. Like, if. Here's his psychologist saying it's okay. And my psychiatrist would. Would second that opinion. Yeah. So it literally turns into a situation where they sign off on it. We find out, you know, my mom's talking with one of her co workers who is a hunter, and she looks into it, finds out that the local gun store is going out of business. They got it going out of business sale. And, yeah, she says, hey, why don't we go and check out today? Let's go, you know, let's go see what they have at the store. And that's kind of. She was interested in getting a shotgun because she wanted it for, you know, skeet shooting and home defense. And I could go off with my brother using it to hunt. So that's what we ended up doing.

Julian Morgans (20:04)

It's kind of frustrating to hear this because on the one hand, your mum's really doing all the right things, you know, you're doing all the right things. You're getting therapy. If. If there was a recipe on how to turn around depression, you. You kind of doing it. And yet it's kind of going disastrously wrong at the same time.

John Romano (20:21)

Well, I think, yeah, my mom was Definitely. You know, she had told me early on actually when I was, when I was at the psychiatric unit, you know, she's just going to trust the doctors. What the doctors say goes basically. Right. And this was just kind of how she saw my, my therapy and everything as, hey, you know, this is a little bit out of her depth. If my doctors, if my therapist says that this is the way that they want to go, she's going to follow their instructions. But yeah, obviously we all wish things had gone very, very differently for everybody.

Julian Morgans (20:57)

So you bought a gun and did you start hunting?

John Romano (21:02)

No, like I getting the gun was actually kind of a turning point moment. So my mom and I, we go to the store, it's on a Saturday, you know, we're able to get the gun right then and there. And I'm 16 at this point, I'm basically, I, I go home, you know, my mom has a trigger lock on it and everything. But I'm still kind of, you know, wanting to like take pictures of myself with this gun because in my mind also this is kind of like a symbol of trust as well, because I'm kind of like, okay, I'm doing better. You know, like, people believe in me, my mom believes in me, my, my therapist believes in me, they trust me like, holy. And also at the same time, I'm a 16 year old boy, I'm kind of like, let me take pictures of me with this gun and show off. And I do. And I send off a couple of pictures to like some friends and, you know, a couple family members and some of my friends and family, they're just kind of like, you know, Johnny, we're worried about you. So it becomes kind of this in my mind again, it's the symbol of first people believing me and now it's kind of like, oh wait, no, a lot of people don't believe in me. You know, that's what I'm telling myself, that's that, that negative self talk, right? Is instead of being like, okay, they love me, they care about me, they just want me to be safe, they just want me to be okay. And I take it in my mind as they don't believe in me, they don't trust me. And I, I just keep telling myself that like, nobody's ever gonna believe in me, nobody's ever gonna trust me. You know, at 16, I felt again there's something must be wrong with me that's never gonna get fixed. Nobody's ever gonna like be able to, you know, wanna hire me. I'm never gonna have A good life, all this negative self talk. I start to downward spiral. I start to just basically think that it, why bother, why bother going on any further? Why living anymore? My life is never going to get any better, you know, I'm not going to live any type of life that I want. I, I hate my life. I hate life. I just want to die. And now I have this gun. Sure, my mom has the, the, the, the trigger lock on it, but I'm like, you know what? I bet I can find the key. And unfortunately, you know, later that day I was able to find the key.

Julian Morgans (23:25)

The, the absolutism of adolescent thinking. You know, you just, you just think that it's black or it's white. It's one or it's zero. This is forever. I will not get better. I'm tarnished. I'm wrong, I'm bad. It's a tragedy.

John Romano (23:40)

Yeah. You know, I think it's obviously when you're so young, you don't really have much to compare things to. So it does become that black and white thinking and you know, that time period in your life does not define your life forever. As much as we like to make it out to believe sometimes.

Julian Morgans (23:56)

Oh God, that's so true. I remember when I was a teenager and it just felt like, well, this is who I am forever. And you don't realize just how fleeting that high school period is.

John Romano (24:06)

It's gone in two minutes exactly.

Julian Morgans (24:10)

You've got this gun and you find the key. Can you just take me through it?

John Romano (24:16)

Yeah. So now let me back up a little bit about why I basically think in my mind I want to go and I want to die at my high school. Right. I want to go kill, cause chaos. I want to cause pain and suffering to people. It's, it also goes back to when I was in the psychiatric unit the year beforehand. I was only 15 years old and, and it was legally mandated that I continue on with my schoolwork while I was there. And I was like, okay, you know, I guess I'll do whatever I have to do. But then that's when the staff at the unit basically tell me that they keep trying to contact my school and they're trying to get my schoolwork for me to be able to stay up with my studies. And they're just not responding. They're not reaching back out, they're not sending anything and this to me. I'm now sitting in the psychiatric unit after trying to kill myself and I'm basically being told that the school won't help me Out. And I just, you know, I'm there with probably like a dozen 15 other kids my same age. They're all in this, you know, like, classroom in the psychiatric unit. They're all from other schools doing their schoolwork. And I'm basically being told, you legally have to sit in this room because of your age, because. But we just don't have any schoolwork for you because your school won't send anything. So you just got to sit here and like, read a book. And that's what I had to do for a while. Like, day in and day out, I'd get the same response of like, sorry. We keep reaching out to them. And so I just keep, like, in one of the most vulnerable moments of my life, I just keep saying, like, they. They don't give a. About me. Even when I try to kill myself. They're not willing to, like, do this little thing to help me out while I'm in a psychiatric unit. And so that's when kind of like my. My grievance towards the school begins. And even when I get out of the psychiatric unit and I return back to school, when we request that I get a little extra help, a little bit more, you know, provided to me that kids with different types of learning disabilities or mental health issues be required to get, they say no. And, you know, we had to have this battle where my mom again would come to the school, have these meetings, and long story short, the school didn't respond until a couple months later. My mom hired an attorney, and the attorney basically told them, we're going to sue you. You know, it's going to turn out badly for you, and it's going to bad publicity, everything for you. And the school suddenly wants to do everything they can to help me out. So I. I just basically really start at this point to be like, I hate this school. They. They only see me as a dollar sign. And if they can push me away and save some money, they'll do exactly that. But if they get threatened with a lawsuit, then they'll help me out. And I really, you know, began to, like, hate. I didn't have problems with other students. I had problems with the administration. Where then fast forward back to why do I decide on February 9, 2004, I'm 16 years old. Why do I decide to go into my high school with a shotgun is because I felt like they didn't give a about me. I felt like if they had done what they should have done a year prior, that my life would have been a lot different. I Wanted to blame somebody other than myself. I, I could have taken responsibility. I could have realized that I didn't open up to my therapist the way I should have. That there's so many different avenues obviously I could have taken at that point, but in that moment, I wanted to blame somebody else. And I wanted people to. Basically, when I died, I wanted not to die alone in my home. I didn't want my mom to come home and find my body. I wanted people to know exactly why I was killing myself. And I wanted other people to feel my pain and suffering in my last moments on this earth. I wanted people to feel such depression and emptiness for the rest of their lives because I knew exactly what I was doing, and I hate myself for it. But I knew in that moment I wanted to go and cause pain and suffering. And I wanted them to see me. I wanted them to feel the terror that they did. And I wanted, I wanted what's just to be seen and heard for a moment. And I know that sounds so fucking petty, and I know it sounds so horrible, but that's honestly what I was thinking.

Julian Morgans (28:54)

No, John, I think that makes perfect sense. You don't want to be alone. And I mean, it's a bit of a glib phrase, but, you know, misery loves company, I guess. If you're feeling so alone in this moment, then you want everyone else to hurt as much as you are. And man, I'm sorry. I'm just really sorry that you went through this. This just sounds like such a shitty time.

John Romano (29:15)

It is a shitty time. But at the same time, I did spread that pain and suffering to others. I did exactly what I wanted to, to do, you know, except for the part where I wanted to die. But here we are. You know, this happened in 2004. It's been, you know, almost. Or, yeah, 22 years. There's still people to this day who suffer because of me. You know, I, I, I, I spent almost 17 years in prison. I've done what I can to turn my life around, but, I mean, I've had a lot of my former classmates reach out to me and connect with me and talk with me and. But there's still a lot of people who will never forgive me, who will never forget me, and who will always see me holding that shotgun, you know, walking the halls of that school. They will always live in that moment. They will always be full of terror.

Julian Morgans (30:16)

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John Romano (31:47)

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John Romano (32:09)

A car insurance app? Yep.

Julian Morgans (32:11)

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John Romano (32:46)

She was tired, mostly.

Narrator/Advertiser (32:48)

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John Romano (32:51)

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Julian Morgans (32:53)

Did she have to fight a dragon?

John Romano (32:54)

Nope.

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Julian Morgans (32:57)

Was it scary?

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John Romano (33:03)

It did, actually.

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John Romano (33:06)

You'll want to tell stories about.

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Julian Morgans (33:18)

So I'm imagining this. This plan starts to coalesce in your mind?

John Romano (33:23)

Yeah. So really my main thought that morning was to go in there and I had a few different things in my mind, but I didn't have a definitive plan. I really just knew that I wanted to go in there. And I knew, obviously when I pull out the shotgun and people see me that now all eyes are on me now, you know, they're not going to be able to ignore me anymore how I felt ignored. They're going to be forced to deal with me in that situation and. And I didn't really have much of a plan besides that. You know, maybe shoot out some windows or some stupid shit like that and basically wait for the cops and they're gonna kill me in front of everybody. But, like, I wanted to die and I wanted to die in front of others, and that was basically it. That's really all I had my mindset to.

Julian Morgans (34:15)

Oh, God. Did you sort of have like a big breakfast and say goodbye to your mom in the sort of like a flamboyant way? Like. I guess I'm trying to figure out how. How much this was premeditated.

John Romano (34:28)

Yeah. So I had started writing out a suicide note the night beforehand. And I basically, I went to sleep that night. Like I was still taking Xanax at that point for anxiety, and I was still, like, I remember taking some extra, like, because part of me was fighting this, part of me wanted to stop myself. And it didn't work out. Like, I just wrote most of the suicide note the night beforehand. I, you know, I. I ended up sleeping pretty rock solidly that night. And I tell people that, like, thinking that I was going to die the next day actually gave me better sleep than I was having, you know, most nights. Because I was like, this is it. Like the pain, the suffering, it's going to go away. It's, you know, I know it's just a matter of hours before the pain is gone. And yeah, I remember the morning of. I remember I. I started off the day like it was any other. Honestly. I woke up, took a shower, had a bowl of Cheerios. I legit just was like in the morning time. I was acting like it was any other day. And my mom had left earlier for work and she would later on tell me she remembers calling me that morning after she arrived at work, my mom calls and she says she remembers me at the end of the phone call saying, I love you first. Right? Because as a 16 year old boy, I was kind of the stereotypical. I would say I love you after, after she did. And yeah, she remembers that morning. I said at first. But other than that, there was no big goodbyes. You know, I left behind like a little like 5 second video clip just saying I'm sorry to my mom, to my family. And that was it. I finished off the suicide note. I packed the shotgun in its case, packed my book bag, even though I, you know, I just was carrying all that to blend in. And I set off like it was any other day. Going to high school, did you feel nervous? To a certain degree. Right. There was definitely a little bit of nerves and anxiety going on. But I think at that point, like, even as I drove myself in and I was driving in late, I was still kind of like separated from the situation. Right. It didn't feel real until I was at the school. The shotgun case was a hard black case that I knew. Anybody who saw me carrying this case would probably just think that there is a musical instrument or sports equipment in there.

Julian Morgans (37:25)

No one gave you a second look?

John Romano (37:28)

Nobody gave me a second look. I was already an hour or two into the day and there was, there was nobody even at the front door. I literally just walked right in. I ended up going up into the second floor. And at that point, that's when it started to feel real. That's where the real nerves and anxiety started to kick in. And I would end up going into a bathroom, going into a stall and just kind of like, you know, literally sitting down. All right, like, let me just kind of like take a moment. The reality of the situation is now hitting me. And as I'm sitting there in the high school bathroom, I've got a shotgun right next to me. I wanted to leave, you know, I, I wanted to leave in that moment. And I sat there for probably a good 30, 40 minutes trying to talk myself out of it. I wanted to like, just pack my stuff back up and just get out of there and. But I was also afraid now of being caught. You know, like leaving would be a lot harder than walking in late. So I start to tell myself, this is it, this is the point of no return. I, I, there's no going back now, you know, there's nothing I can do to stop this. That's what I'm telling myself. In reality. I could have stopped myself. I could have, you Know, I tried, like, texting and calling a couple of friends, but this is also the early 2000s. Like, phones weren't as big in schools and everything. I could have called my mom. I could have called my therapist. I could have called the police on myself. But instead, I sat there and said, no, this is it. This is happening. And I refused to stop myself.

Julian Morgans (39:15)

Just walk me through it in as much detail as you remember what happened next.

John Romano (39:20)

Yeah. So I get to the point where I have the shotgun out of its case, and I even remember there is, you know, a bell goes off as one class ends. And I remember hearing students filling the hallway, and there's even students coming into the bathroom, but I'm sitting there in the stall still, and I'm just sitting there kind of like, okay, I'm going to wait for everybody to leave. I'm going to wait for everybody to get out. You know, I don't want to, like, come out and have people being right there. I waited a couple minutes, and as the next class period begins, hear the bell, the hallways, everything's pretty empty. And I get out of the bathroom, and as I'm leaving the bathroom, though, with the shotgun in my hands, with it down at my hip, pointing forward, there's a kid who is now coming around the corner to enter the bathroom. He now comes around the corner and is only a couple feet away from me. It's standing right there in front of me, like, frozen. And he's the first person to see me that morning. You know, what kid imagines that that's what they're gonna see. So he freezes in front of me, and he. He says, this can't be real. And, you know, and he. And he's just stuck there for a moment, and I just remember, I. I'll never forget the look in his eyes. He just kind of, like, turns around and runs. I come around the corner, and he had already dived into the first classroom he could. And now I'm at the end of the hallway, and I'm looking down, and now I see two students rounding the other end of the hallway. So they're about 40ft down. And they come around the corner to again see this horrific sight of me with a shotgun at my hips, pointed right, you know, right down the hallway, right towards where they are. And I remember one of them even yelling out, oh, shit. And I remember that specifically because there's. All these classrooms are in this hallway. There's a teacher who, to her, she doesn't know what's going on. It's Any other day, any other morning, she hears a student yelling. Oh, I remember her calling out to him, watch your mouth. And that's when, you know, I, I point the shotgun kind of like up and away from where they are. Cuz they're straight up front of me and I point up and away and I fire twice and they just turn and run for their lives. They think that they're about to die. They're terrified. And yeah, so now, now everybody in that hallway, in all the classrooms, they now know something horrific is happening. Yeah, there's just this silence and most of the classroom doors are all shut. You know, I didn't try to open up any of them or anything like that. I'm just walking down the hall, just taking my time. And I remember just seeing this one door wide open and you know, I just kind of walk over to it again. I wanted people to see me. I wanted them to see, you know, everything that was going on. And so I stood in this doorway and I looked in and I look in and I see everybody. They're all, they're all hiding from me. They're all hiding underneath their desks. And I remember there's the teacher, she's at the front of the class and she's underneath this table that she had. And we just kind of lock eyes for a second and she's just full of tear and she cries out, oh Lord. And I'm just kind of looking around and I felt nothing. I hate to say it, I felt nothing. And I remember, you know, this one girl, she kind of pops her head up and she's just looking at me with not only like pain and terror, but also confusion because she was like a friend of a friend. And I just been out with a bunch of friends, friends, you know, a couple nights beforehand. And I turn around and I just walk out and I start walking back down the hall. I'm just kind of ready, you know, ready to die. I'm not trying to do anything now. I'm just kind of like, all right, you know, it's just moments from. I'm sure the police are on their way. But before the police arrive, the assistant principal, he had been, you know, further down in the school and he had heard everything going on. He thought that somebody was setting off, you know, firecrackers or doing something stupid. He came to investigate, not realizing what was actually happening. But when he came around that one corner, he sees me walking away and he was extremely brave and he ran up behind me and you know, I'm still Just kind of. This whole time I've just been, you know, walking around, shotgun down on my waist. So he comes up and he grabs around me, the barrel on one, then the stock on the other, and he just kind of like, bear hugs me, you know, in between the gun and himself. And I'm a big guy, but he was a big guy, too, and he's just like, holding tight onto me to control me, to stop me. And. And at first I just kind of like, I'm caught off guard. I'm caught by surprise. And I'm trying to, like, you know, like, push the gun out, but I can't. I start to, like, try to, like, shake him off my back, you know, my fingers on the trigger. And unfortunately now as I start to, like, twist and turn, the gun goes off, and there's a teacher coming up behind us to help. And I wouldn't learn until later on that the teacher was shot by that third round that went off. You know, I just shot somebody and didn't even know it until later on. And I'm trying to get this guy off my back, and I can't. So eventually I let go of the shotgun and I just say, fine, I give up. And that's it. He just kind of grabs me and pulls me over to this one teacher's office. I still remember the door was closed and he's knocking, and I still remember the man was crying, the assistant principal, you know, he. He's telling him, he's like, he's okay, I got him. I. It's over. And, yeah, so, I mean, they just bring me into this office, you know, tell me to lie down, and he basically just, like, sat on my back and waited for the cops. And sure enough, you know, like, the cops came rearing and ready to go. If. If I had faced off with them, I would have been dead pretty quick. But instead, I got arrested and I went off to prison.

Julian Morgans (46:11)

Oh, God, John, thanks for walking us through that. That's. I can't imagine the kind of bravery it takes to come on a podcast and, you know, just relive that. That's amazing. Thank you.

John Romano (46:28)

I only open up and I only give the details of what happened because I think it's important for. For people to know the horrors that too many kids in America are facing. It's not easy, but it has to be done.

Julian Morgans (46:43)

So what do you remember about the rest of that day?

John Romano (46:47)

I mean, they bring me into the police department. Fortunately, at 16 years old in New York State, I was deemed basically an adult, where I Was able to waive my rights to having legal counsel or my parents or anybody there. And they were able to start questioning me, you know, and I say unfortunately, because then the police kind of like write out this fake confession that includes a lot of what really happened. But some police definitely love to put in their own little spin to things. And that's exactly what they did that day. They put me under 72 hour lockdown because they test for tuberculosis in a lot of the county jails here. You know, so basically, like, they gave me that test and told me I couldn't come out of my cell for a couple of days. You know, I'm a white kid from the suburbs and I have all these guys kind of like walking around. Some of them try to, like, come up to me and talk to me.

Julian Morgans (47:42)

Did you speak with your mom?

John Romano (47:44)

I was able to eventually call my mom. She just immediately was. Was crying. She was horrified by what I had done. And I don't even really remember too much of that first phone call. I tell people I remember my first visit with my mom. They still had us behind Plexiglass, like, telling me. She's like, I love you. I want to hug you, but I also want to hit you. She was mad at me, obviously, for a very long time. And we had to work things out.

Julian Morgans (48:14)

Yeah. God, I really feel for her. I feel really sorry for her. She's throughout this story. She's tried really hard.

John Romano (48:22)

My mom is pretty great. I'm very lucky to have her. She's definitely been a huge force in me turning my life around and doing what I'm doing today.

Julian Morgans (48:31)

Yeah, that's great. Okay, well, let's talk about the next couple of months. I mean, I'm guessing at that point it's kind of a process.

John Romano (48:39)

Yeah. So I was charged with three counts of attempted murder. I was charged with assault, and I believe 82 counts of reckless endangerment. And I was facing 75 years in prison, which was basically meaning life in prison at 16 years old. And. Yeah, so the next few weeks and months were just kind of getting to know what jail was like for me, but also everybody was for my family and friends, trying to figure out the legal process as well and trying to figure out what they could do to help connect with me in that moment, because they wanted to make sure that I could still turn my life around at some point.

Julian Morgans (49:24)

Yeah. Yeah.

John Romano (49:26)

In a very ambiguous time for a lot of people, even in my community, there was a lot of anger and rage, but there was also people who were saying you know what? He deserves a second shot at life. He shouldn't be facing so much time. I was not connecting with it. I was not thinking about all the people that I just, you know, caused so much pain and suffering to. I was more just thinking about my own self. I'm not gonna lie. I was thinking about jail. Let me figure out how to live in jail. Let me figure out what's gonna be happening with my legal consequences, and let me try to talk with my family and friends as much as I can.

Julian Morgans (50:02)

When did it really land for you?

John Romano (50:06)

You know, it landed in waves. The more I had some of my friends who were able to come and visit me in jail, you know, friends of mine who were classmates who were there that day, who experienced everything like everybody else did, the more that I was able to see some of them and have some very real conversations with them, I was able to start looking into it, you know, and understanding it, but on a very superficial level as well. Like, even after a few years, I still fully didn't comprehend everything. I fully, you know, I didn't dive as deep as I should have. I'll never truly understand what I put people through. And that's why every time I talk about it, it's like I'm, you know, I'm able to learn a little bit more from it myself.

Julian Morgans (50:50)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think ultimately you served 17 years.

John Romano (50:55)

Yeah, just under 17 years. I was released from prison the end of 2020, so I was also released from prison as, like, Covid was still pretty intense. Yeah. So that was definitely an interesting time to come home from prison.

Julian Morgans (51:09)

Yeah. I mean, 17 years, that must have felt like a lifetime unto its own.

John Romano (51:15)

Yeah, 17 years in prison. I'm not going to lie. After a few years, you kind of get used to it. You kind of get into the role of just prison life. And it does feel like forever. It just feels like this is going to be my life from now on, Especially when I was 16 years old. Even when I found out that I'd be serving 20 years and with the possibility of getting out after about 17, I came home having spent more than half of my life in prison.

Julian Morgans (51:42)

When you think back to that period, I mean, what are the main moments or the main sort of images that come to mind?

John Romano (51:49)

I think there's definitely the first initial, like, shock and awe of, like. There's a difference between, like, county jail and state prison. And one of the first state prisons I went into was literally about 200 years old. You know, it's this very old, very huge prison, and I was 17 years old at the time, and I'm literally walking among prisoners who had been locked up longer than I'd been alive. And and I just remember that first kind of like, holy fuck. I'm not gonna lie, it's just kind of overwhelming at first. But then there's unfortunately, there's a lot of violence and chaos within prison. I definitely wish that we could recalibrate our prison system so that people would be able to, like, you know, serve their time, be kept away from society, but also have more rehabilitation available. Most men and women in prison do not have that, at least not here in the States.

Julian Morgans (52:46)

Hey, we're going to take a quick ad break, but stick around because we'll be back with more what it Was like.

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Julian Morgans (55:16)

Do you also remember the day or the first time that you admitted to being sexually assaulted?

John Romano (55:22)

Yeah. I first opened up to my mom about the sexual abuse, you know, because my one brother who had done it, he was kind of like lurking and reaching out to me a little bit. He wasn't really close with the rest of my family, but I mean, like, I think he was just kind of like, oh, shit, you know, John's done this horrible thing. He's in prison, like, what can I do to help? You know, from the fringes. He was, how can he be a part of the family dynamic? And, and I was just like, you know what, I don't want anything to do with him. I don't want communication with him. I don't want you guys to tell me about him. And this is why. Right, because this is what he used to do to me when I was six, seven years old. You know, and of course my mom was horrified. You know, who could imagine that that's what's. What's going on to their, to their child, especially by, like, she had raised him as a son for a few years while she was with my father.

Julian Morgans (56:21)

Yeah.

John Romano (56:21)

And so she was horrified to find out that this was what was happening. Yeah, yeah. I don't know.

Julian Morgans (56:29)

Did you ever talk to your half brother about what he did to you?

John Romano (56:34)

So there was a time, I'd say probably about 10 years into my prison sentence, I was really diving deep into like a lot of self help and therapeutic books and some of these therapeutic books that would have like, different writing exercises and things that you could do. And one of them was to basically like, you know, write out a letter to somebody who has hurt you. And I eventually, you know, worked up the courage to do that. And, you know, the book said, you don't have to send it to them. It's just a therapeutic exercise. But I chose to actually send it to him and I never got a response. I don't even know if he received it. You know, I haven't spoken to him, heard from him since, you know, 2004. And I think that that's. It was very cathartic for me to be able to write that letter and to kind of put it all out there. And I was very lucky. I wasn't able to get a lot of therapy in prison, but I did have a good therapist at one point who basically told me she knew I was reading this book, she knew I was going through these exercises. And she told me, you know, if you do write this and if you do send it off, you have to be able to send that letter without any expectations. You know, whether he responds to you, doesn't respond to you, you know, you have to be able to basically, like, set it and forget it. Right. Just do it and let it go.

Julian Morgans (57:58)

It's interesting that he never responded and you guys haven't spoken since, which suggests to me that he received it and just didn't know what to say. So he's just let it. Just let it slide for decades.

John Romano (58:12)

I mean, I'm sure for him, himself. I have no idea why my brother did that to me. Not that there's an excuse or justification. I don't know if he had been abused in any way and this was. Or why. Why anybody would think that it's acceptable to do anything like that. But hopefully, maybe he did deal with it, but he doesn't want to. To talk to me. Maybe he feels a lot of guilt and shame for what he did to me.

Julian Morgans (58:38)

Yeah. So you've been out of prison for what, six years now?

John Romano (58:43)

Yeah, five and a half or so.

Julian Morgans (58:44)

Yeah, five and a half.

John Romano (58:45)

Going on six.

Julian Morgans (58:46)

I imagine that when you share this story, when you share that, hey, I was. I was a school shooter, you know, that is. That is such a controversial label. That is red hot.

John Romano (58:58)

And I. I mean, for good reason, right?

Julian Morgans (59:00)

Absolutely. But I imagine the reactions that you get a lot of the time are just horror and anger.

John Romano (59:07)

Yeah. I've gone viral many times for all the wrong reasons. Right. Where obviously there's a lot of anger and animosity towards me, and people don't believe I deserve a platform. They don't believe that I should be able to speak on podcasts or be on social media or do anything like that, because they're afraid that I am either manipulating the system, monetarily gaining from this, which I'm not. I'm not being paid for this. I'm not being paid for a lot of what I do. But today I'm working on preventing other people from doing what I once did, and I've been successful in that. I have had some very dark conversations with kids, adolescents, teenagers, people in their 20s, parents, all thanks to sharing my story on social media. I've been able to connect with not only people around the United States, but people in other parts of the world. And there's a lot of people who need help. And sometimes they don't always feel as comfortable talking with their therapist or with their parents. Or with their teachers or whoever. And sometimes I'm just this random stranger on the Internet who has done something that they think about doing, and they feel comfortable reaching out to me for help so that they don't do it. And I'll always share that message.

Julian Morgans (60:19)

How do you overcome the fear of rejection? And I asked that because I was thinking to myself, you know, you've come into this podcast studio today. There's a whole bunch of engineers there who have no idea about your backstory, your context. They haven't seen your social media. I know the context. So I know that you're an advocate for mental health as far as they're concerned. You just come in and you just tell this crazy, wild story, and they're like, oh, my God. And yet you don't seem afraid of that. You seem to have transcended that fear.

John Romano (60:47)

You know, I'm lucky to have the support system that I do, and. And I'm able to recognize that I'm gonna come in contact with people all the time who don't know me. And if they do find out about my past, some of them will absolutely hate me. But I can still go back to my loved ones, and I wish I didn't have to share my story. Most people wish I wasn't sharing my story, but the very first public speaking event I did, there was survivors from a mass shooting. And, you know, I spoke with one of them, and they said, we need everybody we can, you know, with the perspectives that we all have at the table talking right now. And you have a very unique perspective, and we need you here. That kind of helps settle some of my nerves. I would rather speak and be hated by many, but be able to help the few than to stay silent and to not help anybody at all.

Julian Morgans (61:42)

I think you're taking absolutely the right approach. I just want to talk about gun control for a very short moment, and I'm curious where you stand.

John Romano (61:53)

Yeah, so gun control is obviously very controversial in the States. And I tell people I understand the desire to want to be able to hunt and provide for your family or to be able to protect yourself, but I think gun culture in the States is out of control. And, you know, obviously, if there is. If it's harder to access weapons, then you're not going to get these tragedies to the degree in which we're seeing. We definitely need to have some restraints to prevent people, or at least to make it a little bit harder for people to get weapons of mass destruction, basically, because where you are in Australia and places like the United Kingdom, where you don't have as much gun violence and you still have criminals, they're just not able to get their hands on the guns as much.

Julian Morgans (62:39)

Yeah. Yep. I can tell you that living under a fascist, tyrannical gun control regime in Australia is really peaceful and lovely. Let's talk about your life these days.

John Romano (62:52)

Yeah. So I had been home from prison for less than a year when I had started volunteering at a homeless shelter. And they immediately, they saw how I was, how I was interacting with everybody. And they're like, hey, you know, if you're looking for a job, put in a resume, like, we, we would love to talk to you and maybe hire you. And so, yeah, I ended up working at a homeless shelter and I loved it because I was able day to day to help people who need it most. Yeah. So I was working at the shelter for about nine, 10 months when I myself was almost murdered by a man who knew nothing about me, knew nothing about my past. He came in one day and he was not a regular and he just started kind of arguing with one of my co workers. So a couple of my co workers myself just kind of stepped in. You know, it happens. You just try to de. Escalate. You know, I'm a bigger guy. I'm usually the one who goes over and lets somebody know, like, sorry, you gotta go. But I told him, I said, you can come back tomorrow. And we didn't have metal detectors, we didn't have any type of security or anything like that. We did have a locker room where they could put like big bags and stuff. And so he asked me, he's like, okay, can I, can I go and get my stuff from the locker room? Said, yeah. And, you know, he came out a couple minutes later and he had swords. And who would expect to see somebody with swords like that? And yeah, so I became the victim of a pretty random and horrifically violent event myself. He was aiming for my head, as you can see by this nasty scar right here. He did succeed to a certain extent, but after the blades were bouncing off my wrists, you know, I've since gotten some tattoos to cover up scars and stuff like that, but yeah, he almost completely cut off both of my hands. I was able to like, get up and run away, but I eventually fell in the stairway and I kicked at him and he ended up cutting up my legs pretty bad. I almost lost my right leg from the knee down. My co workers, everybody's screaming and yelling and like, eventually when he did leave, he thought he had done Enough to kill me, which he had. I was literally on the ground bleeding to death. Couldn't really move much at all. And I'd only been home from prison for about a year and a half. And I was accepting that I was in my last moments on earth at that time. Wow. You know, and I was okay with it. I was okay with it because I said to myself, basically, like, I've. I've done what I set out to accomplish, because at that point, I had come home, you know, spoken with some law enforcement and with mental health specialists and shared my story and done what I could to prevent others from doing what I did. I was working at a homeless shelter to help people, and I was okay with dying in that moment. And, you know, when police and first responders showed up, you know, they put tourniquets on me, and I still didn't believe that I was going to survive. And honestly, I would later find out, none of them thought I was going to live either. But thankfully, they worked hard to save my life. And, you know, some people say, well, this is your karma, or this is God's wrath. And I learned to quickly realize, you know, if this is God, if this is karma, I could have easily died that day, and I could have been sent to hell or whatever you believe in for punishment, but I'm still alive. So if there is God, if there is karma, I'm alive for a reason. And I believe if I'm alive for any reason today, it's to continue to share my story.

Julian Morgans (66:47)

Wow, John. I mean, that's kind of a perfect ending, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna ruin the perfect ending by asking another question.

John Romano (66:57)

I'm always open to more questions.

Julian Morgans (66:59)

There's a movie that's come out recently, the Drama. Not sure if you've seen it or heard about it.

John Romano (67:04)

I've heard of it. To be honest, I have not seen it.

Julian Morgans (67:08)

I will say that the whole plot revolves around this young woman revealing that she was plotting a high school shooting. And this piece of information completely unravels her relationship and her wedding day, because everyone starts treating her like she's radioactive. It just blows up all the trust in her world. So I was wondering if that's been your experience of sharing your story.

John Romano (67:35)

Yeah. Do people treat me like I'm radioactive? There's definitely some who do, but there's definitely a lot of people who, after talking with me especially, they kind of feel the genuine desire that I have to make a positive difference. And I've been very lucky in that I've run in circles where I'm able to connect with people who know about my past and are willing to give me a chance and willing to talk with me. And I think it's honestly because I've embraced vulnerability, which is definitely, like you said, a learned thing to do, to learn how to be vulnerable. But I think a lot of people see that and respect it and are willing to work with me through things and living life.

Julian Morgans (68:21)

Is vulnerability the moral of the story?

John Romano (68:25)

Yeah, I think definitely vulnerability and being able to be honest with yourself as well as others. You know, that's how we can make a difference. Sure, nobody wants to feel like they might be rejected a lot, but the connections that you'll make with people will be that much more in depth. When you open up and you're vulnerable and you're able to have those friendships, they're that much deeper and that much more genuine. And I feel like those relationships are rock solid, which gives me stability to feel a lot better about my life, even when I still struggle with depression today. But you know what? I. I still am able to cope and live a life that I'm happy to have.

Julian Morgans (69:10)

I'm happy to hear that. John, you've been amazing. Thanks so much.

John Romano (69:16)

Thank you. I appreciate this. It's always amazing to be able to share my story in hopes that it connects with somebody who needs it most. So I appreciate this opportunity.

Julian Morgans (69:29)

This episode was edited by Ellie Dickey, who also does our research. Our cover art is by Rich Akers. Our theme music was produced by Jimmy Saunders. And this whole thing has been a super real production.

John Romano (69:54)

All right, ladies, when you've done the work, you want your hydration to do the same. Introducing new Gatorade. Lower sugar now with no artificial flavors, sweeteners, or colors, and 75% less sugar and all the electrolytes of regular Gatorade now available nationwide. Hey, sweetie. Your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car. I'm gonna give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again. I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check anyway. Carvana, give it a whirl. Love ya.

Narrator/Advertiser (70:33)

So good you'll want to leave a voicemail about it.

John Romano (70:35)

Sell your car today on Carvana.

Narrator/Advertiser (70:38)

Pick up fees. May app.