I Discovered Brad Pitt

Summary

Podcast Summary: What It Was Like — "I Discovered Brad Pitt"

Host: Julian Morgans
Guest: Lauren Lloyd, Casting Director
Air date: September 5, 2025 (original interview from 2022)
Production: Superreal

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Overview

This episode explores the beginnings of Brad Pitt’s Hollywood career through the eyes of casting director Lauren Lloyd, the woman credited with discovering him. The conversation delves into Lauren’s unorthodox path to a casting career, her first encounter with Pitt, the elusive "X factor" that defines stardom, and the alchemy of charisma versus cultivated talent. The episode also touches on the broader nature of celebrity, personal ambition, and what it really takes to “make it” in Hollywood. At the end, the host briefly addresses the serious abuse allegations against Brad Pitt—a subject not covered in the original interview—via a preview of a bonus episode with journalist Amanda Kippett.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Setting the Context: Brad Pitt’s Current Cultural Moment

[01:41-03:30]

• Host Julian Morgans introduces the duality of Pitt’s current public image: still a Hollywood superstar (noting his F1 film), but with unresolved domestic abuse allegations from 2016.
• Morgans admits the episode is pro-Pitt and lacks critical examination of the allegations, promising a bonus episode to address Pitt’s accountability.

2. Lauren Lloyd’s Unconventional Path to Hollywood

[06:43-11:04]

• Lauren describes her early interest in theater growing up in Pennsylvania, her brief ambitions to act or direct, and eventual shift into casting after attending Carnegie Mellon.
• She broke into Hollywood by selling BMWs to well-connected people, leading to first professional connections.

  "I walked down every day, and I was like, hi, guys. I'd like to sell your BMWs. ... And I did. And I sold a little, you know, 320, a little BMW. And that person became my business manager, and we had a great, you know, success together." — Lauren Lloyd [08:19]

• Lauren’s first significant break in Hollywood came via a network of odd jobs and persistence, including lending inside information to potential clients and offering to sell more cars if casting didn’t work out.

3. The Discovery of Brad Pitt

[12:48-16:42]

• Lauren and her partner, Gail Levin, were casting a Yugoslavian film, Dark Side of the Sun, in the mid-80s on a shoe-string operation (“no office;” “startup mode”).
• Pitt arrives as a mostly unknown, with a few minor TV credits. Lauren’s first impression:

  "It was like God walking in. I was like, what? Sit down and talk to me. ... When someone like that walks into a room, you know, you see them, but you feel them. It's almost like every cell in your body is electrified." — Lauren Lloyd [13:59, 15:38, 16:19]

• Despite his beauty, they debated whether his TV background disqualified him for a movie role. Gail insisted, "he's a goddamn movie star." [14:13]
• Pitt was, at the time, very young and “united inside” — a combination of self-possessed, open, and physically striking, but still humble and unpolished.

4. The Elusive X Factor: Can Star Power Be Cultivated?

[17:06-28:14]

• Lauren describes the blend of genetics, charisma, body language, and self-belief required for stardom.
• On Pitt: “He had no arrogance. He had no pretense. He came in very much like a little... shaggy puppy.” [22:25]
• Discusses other stars who “come alive” on camera (Demi Moore, Kim Kardashian)—underscoring that some magic is visible only in the right context.
• The “X factor” is partly instinctual for casting directors:

  “You know within 10 seconds of someone walking into a room, whether this person is interesting or not.” [20:17]

• There are talented actors without charisma, and beautiful people who can’t act; true stardom is extremely rare.
• For Pitt, it was a conventional struggle after his initial break—minor roles as unnamed extras ("Guy at Beach with Drink," "Party Guest") before his breakthrough in Thelma & Louise.
• The industry must wait for an actor as handsome as Pitt "to grow into the confidence level that he can lead a movie." [27:16]
• On being wrong about talent: Lauren says she’s never been wrong in spotting that “special something,” but setbacks happen from personal issues, not misjudgment of charisma.

5. The Nature and Cost of Celebrity

[31:51-38:00]

• Lauren discusses the ways power in casting affects personal relationships and her sense of isolation, both in Hollywood and after she left.
• Reflects on celebrity as America’s “royalty,” the mystique cultivated in the past, and how social media has eroded the aura of celebrity (using the Depp/Heard case as an example where “the nail in the coffin of celebrity” was driven by excess exposure).
• Young people are drawn to magnetic peers, and our attraction to "magic" personalities starts early in life.

6. Can the X Factor Be Faked or Manufactured?

[39:09-41:10]

• Lauren suggests some have tried to fabricate it (example: Lana Del Rey creating her persona), but true charisma is rarely synthesized—though some technically skilled actors succeed by fully inhabiting the role.

7. Highlights from a Career in Discovery

[41:35-47:45]

• Lauren details discovering Christina Ricci at a Massachusetts drugstore, Jessica Alba for Idle Hands, Taya Leone, Jean Smart, Tom Green, and a current rising star Rain Spencer.
• The key in all cases is a unique presence that stands out instantly, oftentimes in casual, unguarded moments.

8. Inside the Casting Process & the Odds of Stardom

[59:15-60:13]

• Julian probes how rare the “full package” is; Lauren estimates it as “one in a gazillion,” insisting the odds are exceedingly low for someone who has all the right attributes and skills:

  “If they had all of the pieces that we're looking for in a fine actor or a movie star, they would somehow be found.” — Lauren Lloyd [60:20]

• She maintains belief that genuine talent “rises to the top” in Hollywood, but acknowledges that luck (family, genetics, early confidence) and persistence are essential.

9. Making It in Hollywood & Life Lessons

[68:07-70:16]

• Lauren’s formula: “Persistence, desire... Just keep your eyes on the goal and be persistent because you will get there. You may not know how… you just keep going until you get that.” [68:07]
• She advises detaching from the outcome (“If you don’t get [the job],... keep going”), and seeing each encounter as an opportunity, not an audition for self-worth.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pitt’s charisma:

  "It was like God walking in. … Every cell in your body is electrified." — Lauren Lloyd [13:59, 16:19]

• On humility at the start:

  “He had no arrogance. He had no pretense. … He came in very much like a little… shaggy puppy.” — Lauren Lloyd [22:25]

• On casting intuition:

  “You know within 10 seconds of someone walking into a room, whether this person is interesting or not.” — Lauren Lloyd [20:17]

• On the odds in Hollywood:

  “One in a gazillion.” — Lauren Lloyd [60:13]

• Host on Pitt’s looks:

  “If you wanted to give some aliens an example of what, like, the best of our species looks like, like, this is the best we've got.” — Julian Morgans [23:31]

• On the power of persistence:

  “You get 40, 50 no's, and then you get one little yes, you know, and so you keep going until you get that.” — Lauren Lloyd [68:07]

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Bonus Segment: Addressing the Allegations Against Brad Pitt

[Timestamps 72:42–81:46]

Guest: Amanda Kippett, journalist and domestic violence advocate

• Morgans introduces a clip of a bonus episode where Kippett recounts the 2016 incident (fight on private jet with Angelina Jolie and their children, involving accusations of strangulation and child abuse).
• Kippett summarizes that Pitt was not charged after FBI/child services investigations, but serious family estrangement followed (“Pax… calling his father… a fucking awful human being…” [75:11]).
• Both host and guest reflect on the difficulties of accountability for super-celebrities; Kippett notes that “alcoholism doesn't cause abuse. You can't say that once you become sober, you're no longer abusive. You're just a sober abuser.” [78:48]
• They discuss the complicating factors of power, fame, and the support systems that insulate celebrities from accountability.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment Description | |----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:41 | Host sets up the episode, duality of Brad Pitt's public image | | 06:43 | Lauren Lloyd’s path to Hollywood, early ambitions | | 12:48 | Casting Dark Side of the Sun; first encounter with Brad Pitt | | 16:42 | "X factor" discussion; can appearance/body language be learned? | | 22:25 | Brad’s humility and demeanor at his first major audition | | 27:31 | Breakthrough with Thelma & Louise, maturing as an actor | | 31:51 | Impact of power and fame on personal relationships | | 35:09 | Decoding the allure of celebrity and its evolution | | 39:09 | Can charisma be faked or manufactured? Lana Del Rey example | | 41:35 | Lauren's other discoveries (Alba, Ricci, Smart, Tom Green, etc.) | | 59:15 | Odds of stardom; “one in a gazillion” | | 68:07 | Principles for "making it"—persistence, desire | | 72:42 | Preview: addressing Brad Pitt abuse allegations |

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Conclusion

This episode offers a rare, candid inside look at one of Hollywood’s classic “discovery” moments and the mechanics of star-making. Lauren Lloyd’s anecdotes demonstrate both the randomness and rigor behind film casting, and her insistence that the world’s most famous faces are, in the end, “one in a gazillion.” Despite the palpable awe for Pitt’s talent and looks, the episode doesn’t shy from addressing the current cultural reckoning with celebrity and accountability, previewed in the final segment. It’s a nuanced, engaging listen for anyone curious about Hollywood’s machinery and the mysteries of human magnetism.

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Recommendation:
For more critical discussion of the abuse allegations and broader questions of celebrity accountability, listen to the full subscriber bonus episode with Amanda Kippett.

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Host Sign-off:
“I think you can find your way, but... if you have something that’s interesting, someone will find you.” — Lauren Lloyd [65:07]

Transcript

[Julian Morgans]

Did I talk too much? Can't I just let it go?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Thank you so much. Take a breath. You're not alone.

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[Lauren Lloyd]

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[Lauren Lloyd]

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[Amanda Kippett]

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[Lauren Lloyd]

Super real.

[Julian Morgans]

I think Brad Pitt is having two moments right now. On the one hand, he's just starred in F1 playing this confident, composed, effortlessly cool leading man. I think he's basically become a kind of benchmark for how how good a man can look in his 60s. And really, I think that that explains a lot of our fascination with him. He just still looks amazing. But there's another side to Brad's recent attention and it's got to do with the fact that in 2016, Angelina Jolie accused him of physical abuse and then promptly divorced him. And we all kind of looked at this and you know, like collectively the media was like, oh, that's interesting. We should look into this. And then somehow it got just forgotten. We moved on. And then Pitt did a few interviews about how he went to rehab and his personal struggles. But then he was back and we've all just kind of moved on and we've forgotten about this now. Since then, a few of his kids have distanced themselves from him. One of them even just dropped his name publicly. So at best he was a neglectful father. But I think at worst, he was probably an abusive dad and an abusive Husband. And yet culturally, we seem to have all just developed amnesia because. Hey, Brad Pitt. Anyway, all of this is to say we're bringing back this classic episode of what it was like, this episode that we're about to play today. We originally released it in 2022, but it's now relevant again. Having said that, this episode doesn't address the allegations against Pitt. I should have addressed it in the interview, but I didn't. So really, this is a very pro Brad Pitt episode. And it really just sets out to answer the question, like, who is this guy, you know, this kind of Hollywood royalty? Who is he? Where did he come from? What's his life really like? That's what this episode's really about. But on the bonus episode this week, I do try to tackle the question of his accountability. So if you subscribe, you should go check out the bonus episode. That's for subscribers only, so you know what to do. Anyway, here's our original episode. I discovered Brad Pitt. Hey, I'm Julian Morgans, and you're listening to what It Was like, the show that asks people who have lived through big dramatic events what it was like. So I was watching a Brad Pitt movie the other day. You might have seen this one. It's called Legends of the Fall and it's. It's kind of one of his earlier ones. As a film, it's okay, but. But the thing that stuck with me was Brad Pitt. I just couldn't stop looking at him. And I think he appears in this movie. He's probably in his late 20s and he's just so good looking that it's like, it's almost a bit freaky. Like he has this effect where he stands in a room with. Or he stands with the other cast members and they all end up looking just a bit gray and two dimensional because Brad's just so electrifyingly aggressively handsome. And I got thinking, like, okay, okay, this guy, Brad Pitt, his name is. It's almost like a trademark for male hotness. It's like he's almost. He's a human cliche in many ways. But there was a time when he wasn't like that. There was a time when he was living in Missouri with his Christian family and. And he was studying journalism at the University of Missouri and he decided to drop out and he moved to Hollywood. And this is the bit that I'm interested in because I want to know, was Brad Pitt always so visually mesmerizing that his success was assured? Like, when he got to la, were casting directors just like, yeah, sure, you can be in a movie, any movie you want. Just choose the movie. Or did Brad have to work at it like everyone else? I guess really this, to me is a broader question around to what degree can appearance for a person in life be a superpower? Basically, I see this as a conversation around this thing that we call an X factor. And I want to know, do massive stars like Brad Pitt just have it? Are they just born with it, or do they have to cultivate it? Is it a learned skill just like any other learned skill? So I tracked down the casting director who originally discovered Brad Pitt. And this is exactly what we talked about. Her name's Lauren Lloyd, and through her career, she's discovered all sorts of huge stars. Jessica Elbar, Scarlett Johansson, Tom Green, Heath Ledger, Christina Richie, and countless others. She was the executive vice president at Hollywood Pictures for a bunch of years. She had the same role at TriStar, Sony Pictures Entertainment. But back in the mid-80s, she was co running her own casting agency. And one day she met a kid named William Bradley Pitt. And this is where our story starts. So I give you Lauren Lloyd. Lauren, thanks for coming on the show.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I'm happy to be here. I'm happy you found me.

[Julian Morgans]

Great, Great. Well, I'm happy you found Brad Pitt.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Me too.

[Julian Morgans]

Let's start with how you became a casting director in Hollywood.

[Lauren Lloyd]

So I would, you know, for my family, like, I would put on little dances or. Or just little shows where I was always telling stories. And then I ended up, you know, I was lucky enough. I grew up in Mount Lebanon and right outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And I was lucky enough to have a theater at the high school there that was so involved. It was very advanced. And I became very enamored of the theater and my desire to have my big face up on that screen, you know, as an actor. And then I realized, oh, no, not acting, directing. And then, of course, I started in casting and then ended up producing. But no, I wasn't always like, ooh, that's a pretty face. But I was very interested in theater. My family took me to the local, like, Pittsburgh Playhouse. And I loved that. I couldn't believe those people were up there doing that stuff. Yeah, I was interested, I guess, in getting attention and telling stories. I think that's. And I couldn't believe I got into Carnegie Mellon. It was on. It was unreal. And so I was like, well, this is what I'm doing. And I love it. I loved it. Yes.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. So you. You graduated from Carnegie Mellon. And. And you moved to Hollywood and in the mid-80s, you know, describe your career. What were you. Was it easy? Was it hard? Were you kind of starting up?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Oh, I had a very specific plan. Everything I do has a very specific, unusual plan. This one was. I didn't know anyone, okay? So I thought, well, people. How do I meet successful people in Hollywood? I thought, well, they. They drive nice cars, so I'll sell cars. And so I did. I walked down to room in BMW, which was about almost a mile away from my little house hut that I was in my little apartment. I walked down every day, and I was like, hi, guys. I'd like to sell your BMWs. And they would say, but you're a girl. And I would say, yes. And then I'd walk down the next day and say, hey, I'm here to sell cars. I did it for maybe 20 days, and I finally bring them lunch. And then they all laughed, and they said, okay, the next person that comes in, you sell them a car. And I said, yeah. And I did. And I sold a little, you know, 320, a little BMW. And that person became my business manager, and we had a great, you know, success together. His name's Harley Newman. Actually, he's maybe the biggest business manager in Hollywood today. Oh. So I discovered him.

[Julian Morgans]

He was selling cars.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah, I was selling cars. It's a crazy story.

[Julian Morgans]

Incredibly unorthodox way of breaking into Hollywood.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Well, all of my stories are like, wait, and then what happened? And so then my dad died, right? And I knew I was gonna go back to Pennsylvania to attend that. And I met a guy, Chris Barrett, who was an agent at, oh, I think the Gage Group. And I knew he was going to buy a car, but I wasn't going to be there to deliver it to him, to sell it to him. So I gave him the prices of what we spent on cars, which is very, you know, illegal or something, because I knew he would be indebted to me that I've given him this great offer. And he was. He said, what do you want to do? And I said, I want to get in there. I want to get in the business. And he said, well, I have a friend, Linda Francis, who has since passed, who's looking for a casting assistant. And I was like, oh, certainly, yes. I'm very good at that. And so he introduced me to Linda Francis, and I said, what kind of a car do you drive? She said, a Peugeot. And I thought, if nothing comes out of this, I'll sell her a BMW.

[Julian Morgans]

Upgrade.

[Lauren Lloyd]

And she hired me, which was. I agree. So that's literally how I got in there. And. Yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. All right. So. So. So I guess when. When. When Brad Pitt drove into town, you were. You were working for Linda.

[Lauren Lloyd]

No, by then I had been fired because I. I just was. I was fired a lot. And so I thought, okay, I. I understand how to do this. So I found, in my opinion, who was also a friend of mine, Gail Levin, who I thought had the most exquisite eye. When I say that, what I mean is not only can she see, you know, talent like a Brad Pitt, of course, but the nuances of different characters and how that fits, how you cast a movie to weave that fabric of talent and energy and faces together. She was just crazy good at it. So I said, you know what? And she was working for Wally Nicita, who then became my producing partner. And I was like, gail, we have to do this. And she was like, ah, okay. So we took every job we could. And one of them was the Dark side of the Sun. Yeah. So. And we were beginners at it. Yeah. But we took every job. So we were working like crazy. Like you. 11:00 clock at night, there you are working.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, here I am working. This is pleasure. This is not work for me. So you guys, you ran a business together? Yeah. It was your business, the two of you, right?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

So you were kind of in startup mode at this point. Like, it's fair to say that you didn't have heaps of money.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Oh, nothing, you know?

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. Okay. So I'm imagining kind of a bit of a shabby office, you know, no office. No office. All right. Okay. So you've set a great scene. Tell me about the day that Brad Pitt walked into your non. Office.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Okay. Well, by then, see, we ourselves didn't have an office. We would go from office to office. And I'll just set up the scene just a little bit.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, please.

[Lauren Lloyd]

From Yugoslavia. We got the script, Dark side of the sun, and we're like, are they paying? You know, who do we have to cast? Just the lead? Okay. So we met the three men who. Their names were Yuri, Yuri and Yuri, as I remember. I know that must be their nicknames, because as I look back, it wasn't Yuri. Anyway. And they were very interesting because there was a slight language barrier. But when in the beginning I would say, like, good morning, would you like some coffee? And they'd be like, brandy. And I'd be like, oh, we have to serve them brandy. Okay, I'll go out and get some brandy. Anyway, so We. We met people and it was hard to get exactly what they were looking for because it's like a man who wears leather in the day because his skin is too sensitive. The sun. It was kind of a preposterous idea. Anyway, we're meeting people. We're meeting people.

[Julian Morgans]

This is the plot. But this is the plot, by the way. It's a. It's about a guy who can't go out the sun because his skin's really delicate and he has to, what, travel to Serbia or some.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I don't know, something.

[Julian Morgans]

Something like that. Yeah, right.

[Lauren Lloyd]

So this kid walks in, you know, Brad Pitt. And I think he had done maybe one or two episodes in a soap opera. And he came in and he was what? You know, I was like, who did you. Who's this kid? And he had like shaggy hair and he was kind of slight, but it was like, God, walking in. I was like, what? Sit down and talk to me. He had kind of bad skin a little bit. And he seemed very calm for being so young. And so I guess non experienced. So we read him and he kind of threw the script down and he said like that, you know, because we had read. And I said, yes, exactly like that. Will you hold for a second, please? So Gail and I walk out and we're. We're. We're giggling with delight. We're like, who is he? This guy is magnificent. And then I got a little weird and I said, yeah, but he's. He just does tv. Because by then we were at that stage, we, the people in the movie business, we were very. We looked down upon television, Can I say, right? They were making all the money, but we were making the movies. And so when I remember, I said to Gail, yeah, but he's. He's a TV actor, you know, and this is a movie. And she said, lauren, he's a goddamn movie star. And I said, I know. So we said, let's hire him. And we were giggling and we brought him in to meet the three Yuries. And he read for them and they were like, yes, yes, let's do it. And Brad was so excited, he was like a kid that I.

[Julian Morgans]

How old was he maybe. How old was he at that time?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Maybe 21 or 22. And that's awfully young for someone to be so united inside when I say that, I mean, there's someone so young to be comfortable in their body. Okay? So to be intellectually there. So it's kind of a spiritual, intellectual, physical. It's a blending of all that and there he was. And he was magnificent looking. So when. When someone like that walks into a room, you know, you see them, but you feel them. It's almost like every cell in your body is electrified. Does that make sense at all?

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, it does, it does. All right. I mean, obviously this is one of the things I want to explore with you. So let's freeze frame this, right? You got Brad Pitt auditioning for you and you look at him. I mean, you said before that it was. He looked like God had just walked in, right? So, so obviously he looked good then. It, like, even back then at the age of 21, he looked incredible, right?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he had kind of like shaggy hair and kind of bad skin, but still you're like, what is going on there? You're captivated by it. So I wouldn't say he was. He was almost too pretty. He had very delicate features. He's grown into a much more kind of manly man. He was just quite a beautiful creature.

[Julian Morgans]

Right? Okay, sure. But I think something I find interesting is like this is he looks this way just because this was the role of the genetic dice that his parents gave him. Okay. But then there's this whole other element about body language, about intelligence, about self belief. I mean, have you in your career found people who are incredibly beautiful like Brad Pitt, but don't have the other stuff, or maybe vice versa, where, you know, they have the self belief but don't have the looks?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Oh, okay, so let me unpack that for a second. So the belief, when you're in that position, when you, when you go to Hollywood, you have to have that belief no matter what you do. So I want to. If you don't have that drive, because it's so difficult, it's in you. If you don't do it, you'll perish in a way that's literally what you have to come to Hollywood with. You have to be so driven that no matter how many times you get no, you will find a way. And he had that. And so if you're on that trek, you have to have that. So, yes, he had it. And here he was in the room. There's a variety of things. Like, yes, he was blessed with an incredible combination of genes and he looks magnificent. So there's something about just the person who has that, we'll call it movie star quality versus someone who's just charismatic, you know, someone who. Because you can learn some of that. You can learn eye contact, open body, you know, focus your energy, smile, ask questions that can lead to charisma. But then you've got actors who you're like, okay, well, they look okay. And then when they get in front of the camera, you're like, whoa. Because there's that magic between the face and the Persona of that person and the camera. Like Demi Moore, for instance. I've made a lot of movies with her, and I love her. I think she's lovely. And when you see her, she's just like. She's not like, oh, my God, you're the most beautiful thing. But when she gets in front of a camera, whatever that magic is between the two, she's electric. And I don't know how to explain that. And I also don't know how to explain when you're meeting someone, will that happen when they get in front of the camera? And so let's see here. Also, like, let's take Kim Kardashian. You know, I see her photos or see her in whatever the red carpet, and I think, okay, well, everyone loves her. But when you see her in person and you experience her being, it's magnificent.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Okay.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's. You're still talking about it, though. Like, you're using words around, like, magic and, like, this is a nebulous kind of dark, black magic kind of words. Like, you're in a profession where you need to understand this stuff on a very scientific. In a scientific framework, you have to feel it.

[Lauren Lloyd]

That's what I believe. And that's where it gets a little bit.

[Julian Morgans]

What does it feel like? How do you know.

[Lauren Lloyd]

You'Re interested? I'll tell you. You know, within 10 seconds of someone walking into a room, whether this person is interesting or not, you know it, we all know it. You know, but you're in a professional situation where, you know, you're supposed to be receiving or receptive as a casting director to what they have to offer. I mean, just to put it in a casting director's point of view, everybody that walks into the room, you hope they're that one that you want for that part, you know, and so you're as excited. So when someone walks into a room and you cannot take your eyes off them or you feel it's okay, well, you know something? It's almost like butterflies. Is that safe to say? You know, when you fall in love, you get a feeling of exaltation or something. It's not so much what you see, because we're always taught, are they beautiful? Are they thin? Are they tall? Is their hair blonde? It's what you don't See, and what you feel, it's your instinct. And that is a very hard thing to describe. But I think you can liken it to somebody who you are. Like, I don't know. I looked at that person, and I felt. I felt a certain surge of energy.

[Julian Morgans]

Yes. Does that make sense?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, it does. It does, it does. I want to know, do you think there's a parallel universe in which Brad Pitt never became a movie star? Is it possible to look like that and yet not succeed?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Well, I would imagine, because he has that charisma, that he would have succeeded at anything he wanted to do. He could have been a politician and, you know, because he has whatever that magic is, whatever that thing is that people want to be around him. They want to be him, they want to be with him, they want to sleep with him, they want to somehow get that magic. And so wherever he goes, people will feel that. So I would assume that whatever he wanted to do, he could do.

[Julian Morgans]

Did he know this? I mean, you describe it like it's a superpower. Did he know that he had a superpower?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Not then, no. But, you know what was so sweet about him that I was like, oh, this kid's gonna go on, was that he doesn't think he has a superpower. He was, like, presenting who he was and very hopeful that he would get what he wanted, which was the role. He had no arrogance. He had no pretense. He came in very much like a little. I was going to say a shaggy puppy. He came right in and was just like, this is what I do. Do you like me? Am I good? Did I do it? And so when you have that kind of humble or that idea that this is what I want to do, and I'm hoping I'm bringing what you need for me to be able to do what I want to do, which is act. Yeah, yeah. So he didn't have an arrogance about anything about how he looked or. And then, you know, then you see Brad and takes his shirt off, and you're like, oh, my God, this. He's like. He's magnificent. Do you know what I mean? Everything. He's just a beautiful human, physically.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a sort of like, if you wanted to give some aliens an example of what, like, the best of our species looks like, like, this is. This is the best we've got.

[Lauren Lloyd]

You know, like, Chris Hemsworth is pretty great, too, as far as the beauty, you know?

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's.

[Lauren Lloyd]

He's your guy.

[Julian Morgans]

He's Pretty hot.

[Lauren Lloyd]

He's from Australia.

[Julian Morgans]

He's from Australia. Yeah, he's your guy. We're not friends, but. Hey, Chris, if you're listening, come on over.

[Lauren Lloyd]

We got.

[Julian Morgans]

I'm open to having a beer. All right, look, let's take this back. So. All right. So you cast Brad Pitt in the Dark side of the sun, which is a fairly. I mean, I don't think it was released. It went straight to video or something.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Well, there's a crazy story about it, because.

[Julian Morgans]

Tell me the story.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Well, I, of course, didn't know what was going. I mean, there was a war in Yugoslavia. Right. Okay. And so they lost the footage. They lost the movie somewhere. And then after the war, they were able to bring it forth. This was three years before Thelma and Louise, by the way, before he did that part. And I remember I was at home and I was watching Hard Copy. Do you remember that show Hard Copy? And I saw Brad Pitt, Dark side of the Sun. And I saw the deal memo with Gale's signature and my signature. And I'm like, what the. What's going on? He tried to buy it back. He tried to buy the film back after he became a star because it's like Thelma and Louise and then Dark side of the sun. So. But he. I don't believe was successful and it was released on video. So. Yeah. Yeah, it was really weird timing. Yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So. So looking through his filmography, it seems as though the 80s was. I mean, it seems as though he went through the struggle that any Hollywood actor does. Like, the first couple of years, you show up. I mean, I'll just. I'll just quickly read some of the parts that he's got here listed on Wikipedia. So 1987, there's a show or movie here called Hunk, and he appears at Guy at Beach with Drink. No way Out. Black tie. Party guest. No Man's Land. Waiter. Less Than Zero. Party goer. Preppy Guy at Fight. I mean, you know, he went through the usual rite of passage in Hollywood. I want to know, were you there as his manager at that time, being like, I think our investment's going to work. This thing that we're creating together, it's going to pay off.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Well, I wasn't managing him.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah. There's a process, in a way, that happens in Hollywood. You know, it's usually the casting director that discovers someone first, and then they're all like, yeah, Brad Pitt. And we all talk. Okay. So there's a confidence level. Excuse me. That grows within that Community, like, oh, I brought him in. He was a good reading. Bring him into the director. So there's an advancement in the. In the network that presents him to directors. So when you look at the directors he worked with, they're all good directors and they're all good shows, so they saw something too. They're like, he belongs in here somewhere. Just put him in there. Do you know what I mean? Because.

[Julian Morgans]

Got it.

[Lauren Lloyd]

And the other thing with him, which is super interesting, is that he is so beautiful to look like and look at and on screen that you can't really put him in as a character because he's so handsome. So you have to wait for him to grow into the confidence level that he can lead a movie or take a big role. Does that make sense?

[Julian Morgans]

Ah, okay. All right. Sure. Yeah, it does.

[Lauren Lloyd]

So. So you can see he worked with really good. With really good people, and then he got that spectacular role in Thelma and Louise. Yes. Was there something before that? I don't. I don't know.

[Julian Morgans]

Not really. That was. That was definitely the big one.

[Lauren Lloyd]

And. And I mean, he took off like a rocket after that. And then the thing that we were like, what in Hollywood was when he did. What was it, Seven Years in Tibet?

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

And we were like, oh, wait, he's really. He is a serious actor. We thought he was just like a really handsome, talented guy with a shirt off. And we're like, oh, he's. He's really an actor. You know what I mean?

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

We. Okay, we were saying, he's a movie star. He's saying, and I'm an actor. And it took us aback for a minute. We were like, okay, we'll prove it. And then he did. So he's a very good, good actor. Movie star.

[Julian Morgans]

He seems. He seems smart. Is he smart?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah, yeah. And he's very. He's also very laid back, in a way, very mellow. He allows. I know this may sound weird. He allows things to kind of wash over him in the sense that, you know, he's. He's centered. Yeah. And smart.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so before you were talking about this feeling, like this sort of X factor, how it affects you, how you know when you're in the presence of someone who's got it. Are you ever wrong? Have you been wrong? No, never.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I'll tell you what the answer would be. No. But there's certain things that come. Because when you discover someone, it's like, okay, you have to have a little luck. You have to make sure that the roles are There. Your kind of roles. And no, the only thing that would have proved me wrong would have been if somebody went down the stony end of like drugs or alcohol or they couldn't maintain the pressure of Hollywood.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, got it. Okay. All right.

[Lauren Lloyd]

But no, I've done a. I did. I found a lot of people. I found Christina Ricci when she was 8 years old at a drugstore in Massachusetts.

[Julian Morgans]

Really? And she was just buying something and you saw her from across the room.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I was like, who are you, you little rascal? I'm looking for Cher's daughter. And she was like, what? And the mom's like, cher. So anyway. And she got that part. So.

[Julian Morgans]

And she wasn't an actor at the time. I mean, she was eight years old, so. Yeah, no, she was just a kid.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yes. And a genius. I mean, when. When we would shoot mermaids, her ability to remember lines and also her blocking. Like on this line, you pass the fork here. She was incredible. She was really, really super intelligent and adorable. Yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

We're gonna take a quick ad break here and we'll be right back with more what it was like.

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Get the word out about your business through Acast. Visit go.acast.com advertise to get started. Lauren, you wield a lot of power, you know, is how does that affect the relationships that you have with people around you?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Oh, well, that's an interesting question. When I went to Hollywood. I think this will answer your question. When I went to Hollywood, I was very clever, and I'm still clever, I think, but I was clever in the sense that I Will figure a way how to get what I want. And I always did, like, you know, selling cars, you know, I knew that was gonna. I don't know. Anyway, so I became very successful faster or sooner than my peers. Okay. And that worried me because then I was like, well, you never really know who's your friend, because literally, in Hollywood, your friends, you don't really know anybody outside of work, which is kind of sad. You just know the people you work with because all you do is work and you want to get ahead. So you spend all your free time with the Hollywood people. So it's really all about opportunities, and you hope you find people that like you just for you. I remember when I bought my first house, I didn't want to invite anyone over because I thought they would say, well, who do you think you are? Does that sound weird? You know.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

So then, yes. Then after that, when I was producing, like, a whole bunch of stuff or I was running a studio or whatever, everywhere I go, I go to the dermatologist and she'd hand me headshots and I'd be like, nuts. So I didn't really, you know, I became a bit isolated and only really hung out with the people in the very beginning who knew me when, so to speak. But the thing that's also interesting is that I've moved here because I want to connect more with my family at this point in my life. And I'll tell you, it's weird. It's okay. I don't know why I'm going down this road here, but it's hard to find friends here in Florida when you. They go like, well, what if. What do you do? Well, I produce movies. And they're like, what do you know, Brad Pitt or whoever. And I'm like, yeah. And they distance themselves. They don't. So I don't say that anymore. I just say, like, you know, I'm just.

[Julian Morgans]

That's interesting. What do you mean that they distance themselves?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Because they think, well, yeah, they treat me in a different way. They treat me like I'm somehow special.

[Julian Morgans]

Like, you're intimidating.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah. Because of who I know. Because they think that's so far away from them, which, you know, that Hollywood or whatever is so far away from them. And it is. And I'm pretty unassuming. So when I would be like, la, la, la. And they just can't make out, like, wait, what are you doing here? And I'm just like, I'm just living here, you know, I'm still making movies, but I'm having trouble, you know, making that connection with people.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does it strike you as odd that, I mean, let's unpack celebrity for a moment. Like, in every generation has been obsessed with celebrity. It just seems to be a facet of our brains.

[Lauren Lloyd]

It's our royalty.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. It's our royalty. Yeah. Do you feel like you've peeked under that curtain enough that you, you know, like you've spent time with these people, that the allure isn't there, that it's a facade, that it's a mystique that is. That is somehow transparent?

[Lauren Lloyd]

You know, that's interesting because it's changed so much. You know, years ago, when we would see a star or an actor, you know, there they are, big face, big screen. You know, we weren't really seeing stuff on TV so much, and we were able to project our wishes and love and desires on them. And so they became very personal to us, you know, and so that's. That's kind of. So we feel we personally kind of own it, but it's far away. So it has. It has changed because the intent back then was to keep celebrity distant and keep that magic. And PR companies, oh, my gosh, you know, tons of money to keep their personal lives out of the business, you know, and then People magazine, that seems very significant to me because it was peeking under the. The veil of, what is a star? What is celebrity?

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

And so then little bits would come out, and then that was controlled. But now it's. It's so different because now everybody can be a star. Anyone can go on TikTok or, you know, or. Or, you know, Instagram and have these followers. And I went down that road, and I'll tell you about that in a second. And so it's more. It's. It's more about the people knowing all about you as kind of a celebrity online. You know, I mean, they. And I think that actually Johnny Depp and the Amber Heard thing put a nail in the coffin of celebrity. And I can't. I'll go into that in a second.

[Julian Morgans]

But that's interesting. Like, what do you mean? Like, too much dirty laundry. We saw it all.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah. And that used to be sacred, like, you know, because we're all screwed up, you know, we all have, like, crazy secrets or whatever. I know you do, Julian. Yeah. And so when that became, like, the more dirt you can find, the more it was interesting, that celebrity case, because it was literally there. There was. They were people talking about their relationship. They were not celebrities, you know, but Then I think the social media pushed it in a way that was kind of anti amber, you know, which kind of put the MeToo movement back a bit. But so it became like a popularity thing. But I think it put an end to celebrity in the sense that their people. And they're as damaged or troubled as we are.

[Julian Morgans]

Yes. And as human as we are. I think that's the other thing is that on some level, subconsciously, we believe that these people are somehow like proto human. But, you know, they're not like you say, they're just as damaged, just as insecure.

[Lauren Lloyd]

You know, when we're kids and, you know, and we're playing in the playground or whatever, we know those kids that have that magic.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

You know what I mean? All through our lives, we've seen that, and some of them become those celebrities, but we're geared toward, oh, why is that person? Why does everyone crowd around that person? Why is that person so good at blah, blah, blah? So there's always people that we kind of admire, and then, you know, and then we project those personalities on this. Our desire on them on the screen. So it's. We're kind of primed to be drawn to our. Toward those magical people, so to speak.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just a thought that's occurred to me. Have you ever seen someone who cultivated or sort of synthesized this magic? Like they weren't born with it, but they kind of just faked it?

[Lauren Lloyd]

You mean, are they the real deal, or do they have talent or. Because there's a lot of stars that get roles and then. But they don't have, you know, great talent. I'm trying to think of. That'd be horrible to say.

[Julian Morgans]

I guess. Cause you're talking about charisma, you're talking about this X factor as though it's essentially inherent to who you are. It's either you got it or you don't. I'm saying that I bet there's a lot of people, especially in Hollywood, who are busting their ass trying to cultivate this special thing with. Inside themselves. And surely I've got it. I got it. I can make it work. I can pull it out. Have you ever seen that happen?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah, I would think. I would think that my instinct would go, like when they came in. There are a lot of actors that don't have that, but they are really good actors. You know what I mean? There's. Does that make sense? So they actually ride on the sense that they're becoming another character, as opposed to. I've got this charisma. You know?

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Does that make sense? I'm trying to think of somebody who. Well, who's that Del Rio woman? That singer. What's her name again?

[Julian Morgans]

I'm the wrong person to ask.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Okay. Yes. Lana Del Rey.

[Julian Morgans]

Oh, Lana Del Rey. Yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Okay.

[Julian Morgans]

Yes, I could have said that.

[Lauren Lloyd]

You could have. I couldn't have.

[Julian Morgans]

I could have.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Bob had to help me. She was somebody who I think kind of fabricated what she was all about, changed her looks, but grew into kind of what she wanted to become. I don't even know if this is fair for me to even say this. You know what I mean? I'm not sure, because she's a singer and I don't really have a. I.

[Julian Morgans]

Know what you mean, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, she certainly got a hell of a lot of, like, lip filler. And then, like.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah, she changed him. She became who she wanted to become, and then she started performing that way. I think that maybe that's a good example. I don't know.

[Julian Morgans]

But certainly in the acting world, you haven't seen someone with average looks, with a sort of slumped body language, who is obviously a bit insecure, who. You came back five years later and they'd flourished. You haven't seen that kind of thing before.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I don't know. I wish you'd asked me that question before then. I could have thought. Could have thought about it. I can't think of anything about that. I'm sorry.

[Julian Morgans]

That's all right. That's okay. Let's go back to your career. Let's go back to. I want to know what finding Brad Pitt meant for you professionally.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Well, you know, I didn't look at it in a. In a way that I would. I was. I didn't look at it in a way of like, oh, that's okay. I didn't look at it then, as a casting director of like, oh, that's somehow currency for me. You know what I mean? I was super thrilled that I found this guy. There's a thrill in the creativity of finding someone and bringing them forth. And it's going like, look at this guy. And I did it with a lot of people, all right? And then I thought, I don't want to cast anymore. I want to do something that's more inclusive, you know? And so I thought produce, and I specifically thought, I can do this because I know these actors, okay? So I thought, oh, that was the first time I thought I could kind of rope that. Those relationships in. And I went specifically to a casting director, Wally Nicita, and she was super. She. She discovered all the people that I had, like from Michelle Pfeiffer, Kevin Costner. She discovered like everybody else. And her husband was Rick Nacita, who was one of the founding members of caa Creative Artists. So I was like, we're gonna know everybody. And so I approached her and she said, yeah, let's do it. And that really catapulted my career. She was kind of a decade older than I and had great relationships, and I was able to utilize them and kind of director as a Heat Seeking Missile. So. Yeah, so that. That was the only time that I.

[Julian Morgans]

So what. What year was that? What year did you sort of get into production work?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Well, my first movie, Mermaids, was. I think we made it in the late. I think 89. Is that when we made. We shot it and it came out like a 90 or 88.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. Yeah, right, right. Okay. And then. And then just take me across some of the other incredibly really famous people that you discovered.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I told you the Christina Ricci. You did. Yeah, I was casting somebody shoot, I think, for Blake Edwards and Taya Leone came in from Boston.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, right.

[Lauren Lloyd]

And remember Taya? I mean, of course, she's. And I. She got one line. She was like the cute girl third from the left. Because when I saw her, I was like, oh, she's got magic. There's something completely different about her than every other woman that's come in. There was a naturalness, a very relaxed feeling. She wasn't trying to sell me who she was. She was just being there. I don't know how to describe that, because I noticed back then, this is just a little side thing, that when I would audition young women, they would come in so clammed out, like hair and the lashes, and I'd be like, well, where are you in there? When I would audition a young man, he would come in, like, I'd be like, did you just roll out of bed? He was like, yeah, kinda. You know, their hair would be crazy. You know, they slept in their clothes. But I found that much more able to connect to than all that preparation. So when Taya came in, she was just like, hey, it's me. Yeah, so she was good. I'm trying to think who else I. Oh, Jessica Alba's a good one.

[Julian Morgans]

Jessica Alba is a good one.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

Tell me about Jessica.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I was an exec at. I think it was executive vice president ET Was it tristar or Sony? And I was doing a movie called Idle Hands, and it was, you know, a horror comedy, and I loved the script. So I was looking for a young woman, like 18, 19, who was sexually aware, let's say someone who. But wasn't a predator. Wasn't like, I'm gonna get that guy. You know, somebody who was quite beautiful and very comfortable with who they were. And I met Jessica Alba, and I was like, bingo. I think she had done, I think, an episode of Flipper, I think maybe in Australia. And she came in and read, and her reading was. You know, she was young. It wasn't great. So I worked with her. Worked with her because I had to get the approval from the studio to cast her. My bosses. And it was very interesting there. They were like, well, is she Caucasian? Is she What?

[Julian Morgans]

Is she black?

[Lauren Lloyd]

I was like, she's everything. That's the point. She's everything. Because that's where we're going. We're all a melting pot. Beautiful. She's fresh. She's sexy, attractive. She's our person. So I had to work with her again and again, and she got the part, you know, and then that would be another one I could have mined. She's. She's. What's that? Honest? She has a. She has a company. I forget what it's called. She's done very well. Jean Smart is somebody who I put in the first movie. Remember her? She's in Hacks. That's a series. That's. I think she just got a couple of Emmys for it. But I saw her in a play, a tiny play called Something at Bluefish Cove, and I was like, who's that woman? She's interesting. So she had, like, one line in a Goldie Hawn movie I cast. I think it was called Protocol.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

And then Tom Green.

[Julian Morgans]

Oh, yeah, yeah. The comedian, like the MTV guy.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yes. Well, he was doing some, like, crazy shit on the. You know, and these videos were circulating, and I was like, okay, I get it. He makes everybody really uncomfortable. And that's fun. Okay. So anyway, so I did that movie, Freddie Got Fingered, you know, which I couldn't believe. We got away with that title.

[Julian Morgans]

That was. Yeah, yeah. That was a real hit amongst me and my buddies back in, I think, maybe 2003. Yeah, we love that, wasn't it?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

People, to this day, they still go backwards, man. Backwards, man. Something. Something backwards, man. You know, like moments from that. Yeah, yeah. And something like the bit where he's, like, jerking off the horse. Like, people still talk about that.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah, that was pretty crazy.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, it was pretty crazy.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I have a new discovery.

[Julian Morgans]

Tell me, who do you have?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Her name is Rain Spencer.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay.

[Lauren Lloyd]

And everyone's gonna hear about her. She's, I don't know, maybe 20 years old. She's actually in that series the Summer I Turned Pretty for Amazon, and she also just came out in a movie. But she is the real deal. She's a magnificent actress. And you're just like, what is going on over there? Anyway, so she's great.

[Julian Morgans]

I'm gonna keep an eye out for her.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah, she is. She's. She's. She's real.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay.

[Lauren Lloyd]

All right. What else can I do?

[Julian Morgans]

Have you ever had. I mean, like, again, to my point, I said that you've got this kind of power. Have you ever considered or wondered if you could use it on yourself, like you described to me? Like you described to me before. When you were growing up, you had this interest in theater. You had an interest in acting, but at a certain point, you abandoned that plan. You wanted to be a director, then you abandoned that plan, became a producer. Has it ever occurred to you that, like, you know the ropes, you know, you know how the system works really well these days, that you could potentially get yourself into directing, perhaps you could even become an actress? You know, like, you suddenly have these abilities to do these things now. Like, why not?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Okay, so I did a little acting, and I was horrible.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Okay, I'm admitting it. I cast a bunch of Dennis Hopper movies, and one, and one was called Backtrack. It was with Jodie Foster, and I played her best friend, and I was not good in it.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, so you watched it back and you went, this is not the career. It's not gonna work.

[Lauren Lloyd]

No. Yeah. I don't want to act, and I really don't know how. I don't really. I don't really have a director's eye. Yeah. And I'm not really drawn to that. I like producing. I like bringing the pieces together. I love developing the story. Yeah, that's. That's what I love. I love finding new writers. I'm doing this new movie now, and the writer started writing the script when she was 17. And so, you know, it's so fresh and new and young, and it's called Lovella. And I got a wonderful writer and a wonderful director, and I'm hoping Rain Spencer will be in it.

[Julian Morgans]

That's my wish. Yes. Yes. This is good. Yes. Well, all right. Well, something tells me that she will be in it, so give me a sense of what you're up to now. You're still producing. You're living between Florida and la. Tell me about your life.

[Lauren Lloyd]

My life is Much more about being active instead of reactive. Because when you're in Hollywood or you're a studio exec or a casting person, you're reacting, reacting, reacting because everybody's coming to you with projects and ideas and thoughts. And so what I wanted to do was come here and settle into and just make the movies I want that are not gonna be and finance them. You know, myself with the people here in Florida. I don't want to be told, this is me, you know, as a child. I don't want to be told. I don't want to be told who's right for this, what the budget has to be. I just don't want that anymore. I just want to make a beautiful movie and make all decisions based on what makes that movie better. Not like, oh, that person has, you know, 5 million followers. We must use her, him. I just want to make the most honest movie I can. So that's what I'm doing right now with this. It's a million dollar movie. It's called Lovella. Batsheva Guez is my director. Laurel Hassara is the. Is the writer and she's the. I met her when she was 17. She's like 23 now. So anyway, so yes, that's what I'm doing. And I'm also in the process of, with Wally Nasita, of making my very first movie, Mermaids, into a Broadway musical.

[Julian Morgans]

Yes. This sounds amazing. This sounds like a lot of fun.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I think so too. It was a thought that came across. We were like, that movie is fun. Mothers, daughters, the music, the, you know, so. And it seems that Sierra's interested in being involved. So that's, you know, we'll see how that goes. Yeah, in a big way. In a bigger way. As far as just like, you know, writing music or helping, you know, producing, whatever, and more of an overall. Yeah, so those are the two things I'm focused on now that I'm really focused on. You know, when I was an executive, we'd have like 40 projects we're working on. And so I was never, you know, able to give each one the love. And so now I'm only doing projects that I absolutely love, that I will see to the end.

[Julian Morgans]

That's a much better way to live.

[Lauren Lloyd]

It is. Thank you for that. It really is. Well, you have a lot of time to think though, too. Like, how you doing? Like that. Yeah, you mentioned before I do a podcast now too.

[Julian Morgans]

Tell me, what's your podcast?

[Lauren Lloyd]

It's called the Movies that Made Her But Not Me. And I'm doing it with the woman who created. Her name's Minna Stein, and she's also, like, 21 years old. I love working with these fresh, creative ideas. Anyway, so it grew out of the fact that I would talk about movies and she'd talk about movies, and we never agreed because of generational differences. And so we thought, hey, that could be an interesting. That could be interesting. And so. But here's what I came to realize, because I bring up, like, you know, Annie hall or Harold and Maude movies that I think are magnificent from when I was.

[Julian Morgans]

From the 70s.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah. Her movies that she brings forth and the movies she's talking about. I was making movies. I think we let young women down with the movies we were making because, you know, a lot of them are, like, animated movies or things that she just saw a different kind of. Just different movies than what I saw when I was her age. So it's been super interesting. Yeah. The movies that made her, but not me.

[Julian Morgans]

All right, I'm gonna. I'm check that out. I'm gonna subscribe. I'm gonna leave you a positive review as well, I think. I mean, the. The period that you were making movies and you have been making movies, like, totally. A lot of. A lot of the period that I learned about movies, you know, the movies that calibrated my brain all through the 90s. Yeah, you were making a bunch of those movies. So I don't think you let us down at all. That was just me saying, thank you. Not at all.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Thank you.

[Julian Morgans]

You mentioned before that you'd spent some time going down this sort of, like, influencer route, you know, like casting people on the merit of their followers. What have you learned from that?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Ah, thank you for circling back to that, because I did something in my. Always rebellious. I was so weirdly rebellious within the Hollywood scene, which I so coveted. You know, it was a very. And so I was all like, I'm gonna do something new. I'm gonna do something online. And so I created this, and I knew nothing. This was way. This is just when YouTube was starting. It's called Big TV or BigIsGood TV. And my idea was, I'll fund it myself. I got cameras, and I was giddy with freedom, you know, and so I started watching YouTube and online and who are these people? Because I had makeup, you know, tutorials. I had all those things that you would expect back then, but I did a deep dive into. You know, you go on there, and there would be a hundred makeup tutorials. But why do some have a Great following and others don't. So I started talking to those people, and I was like, what is it? What are they? What is coming across on screen that people are attaching to? So I learned a lot from someone named Candy Johnson, who was a huge. Had huge following. I remember I found her when she had like 2,000 and now I don't know how many million, but when I watched her, she's beautiful. Okay. But also, I asked her a lot and a lot of these people about their past. What? Because all of them say, I want to influence people. I'd say, well, in what way? And it would always come back to a lot of times feeling bullied, feeling left out, feeling traumatized, whatever created who they were, they wanted to give a message that everything's going to be okay. That's my opinion. And they did it through their tutorials, you know, and the people that could pick up a sense of, oh, she's there for me, or wellness or he's there for me, I found those were the people that had more followers. So to me, it was how they were formed and what they really wanted to say. Because it's not like, well, I grew up because I want everyone to do a smokey eye, you know, makeup. I want to connect to people and I want to tell them, I'm okay, you'll be okay.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. And you believe that this is the through line between successful, specifically makeup tutorials? Or is this sort of across the influencer back then?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Now it's super different now it's like, if you can sing or do something clever, you're a star. That I don't understand as much. I can only say, speak to who had great big followings just based on, hi, I'm. Blah, blah, blah. I'm gonna do. I'm gonna teach you how to make this food. I'm gonna teach you how to do this makeup. I'm going to teach you how to, you know, whatever.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

And so that's what I. I found. Yeah. But now I don't get it. I don't know. I don't know. I have no idea what makes people watch videos now.

[Julian Morgans]

Do you have TikTok on your phone?

[Lauren Lloyd]

I do not.

[Julian Morgans]

Okay. Yeah. See, I recently got into TikTok.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I'm a little nervous about that TikTok that China malware. Is that what it is?

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I thought about that, too, and then I decided that I wasn't doing anything very interesting that. Or nothing that China would find very interesting. But. But yeah, it's. It is if you're interested in what makes mass audiences tick, it is a. It's an interesting place to explore because, you know, you're just getting fed. Fed these videos.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Fed. I. Exactly. I have friends that say, well, I go on TikTok and I'm there for hours, you know, and I find that kind of intriguing, but also frightening. So I. I'm trying to cut down on the social media because I don't want to be influenced by what's going on out there. I'd rather just have it come from within, but, you know, I don't know how casting directors do it now. There's so many avenues to finding people. I used to go to, like, you know, the local mall and look for kids. You know what I mean? Like, there they were, that's a cute kid. And now there's the input there. Millions of people with input. It's confounding to me.

[Julian Morgans]

That aspect of your job I find so interesting that you just. You're just out there scouting for human beings who have got these very delicate, very specific little skills. And, you know, could you give me any rough estimate what percentage of the population, the general population, has the skills that you're looking for?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Skills meaning the being, or that. Because I have found kids that are very charismatic and lovely, and you're like. You feel connected to them, and they don't understand the concept of acting. Do you know what I mean? So, yes, that's the tricky part. When you find someone interesting, but they're just laid out. They don't understand.

[Julian Morgans]

I'm talking about the full package. They look great, they move great, they can talk, they're engaging, and they can act.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Oh, my God. Like one. One in a gazillion. You know, it's just so. It's just so few. Yeah, yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

One in a gazillion. All right, let's. Let's say that. Let's say that you said. Let's say that you said a million. Would that be about right?

[Lauren Lloyd]

No, I think it's rarer than that. I mean, you look at. There's. There's tens of thousands of people, hopefuls, actors that come into Hollywood all the time. And I feel confident that if they had all of the pieces that we're looking for in a fine actor or a movie star, that they would somehow be found, because, you know, everybody's hitting the streets looking for that talent or they're going online to find that talent. So, you know, if you don't make it, then you probably weren't meant to.

[Julian Morgans]

See now, that's interesting. I think this gets at a much broader thing about, like, the American dream is this doctrine that says that you can make it. If you believe it, you can make it. And you're saying that actually there's this much greater degree of luck.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Well, I don't. I don't specifically believe in luck. You know, that's like, whoa, that was luck. I believe that. That the path will. How do you say this? Okay. All right, I'll go with. With luck or with everything aligning. There are a lot of people, and I learned this when I was doing big tv, trying to find hosts. There's a lot of people that feel they have something to say.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

But they don't. You know, you're just like, nah, that's not. You don't really have something to say.

[Julian Morgans]

Got it, Got it. Okay. But. But I mean, when I. When I'm using the word luck, what I'm saying is luck. Luck in the sense that you. Well, first of all, you're given the right genetics. You know, you got the full lips and the good cheekbones, but then on top of that, you're raised in a way that made you confident. You know, you. You can articulate yourself. You've just got the right package. And a lot of that just happens to be the family that you were born into, the place that you happen to grow up in. So I think that's certainly luck. But then. Yeah. All right, so there's this other thing that you just said that I think was really interesting. You're talking about how there's enough people scouting that if you're good, you'll be found. Like, cream always rises to the top.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah, I believe that. I believe that you can be found, you know, if you've got something interesting to say. If, you know, I just. There's a lot of casting people. There's a lot of agents. There's. Yeah, I think you can. I think you can find your way, but, you know, it's not like. Like, I remember I was in a room with Wally Nicita when she first met Mickey Rourke. You know Mickey Rourke? Yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

Like the wrestler?

[Lauren Lloyd]

I guess. He's a wrestler. He was in. All right.

[Julian Morgans]

He was in a movie about wrestling.

[Lauren Lloyd]

He was a huge star back then. But when he came in the room, we were like, who's this weird guy? And. And he gave a reading, which was magnificent. He got the role. And I said, what have you been doing? He's like, I've been, you know, selling some stuff down in Miami. So he had no Acting, you know, he just showed up and he had something going on. So. And he's not a beauty, you know, so you meet people who have charisma that. Or have magic that aren't always quite beautiful the way you see them. I remember when I first met Kevin Costner, he was a grip. And I was casting. Hell, what was it, the thing with Michelle Pfeiffer and I forget the name of it. Anyway, and he came in to read with Michelle and Lady Hawk. That was the name of it. And he read and he was like, you know, I'm here with my friend. And he read and I didn't even look at Michelle. I was like, who are you? And he said, you know, Kevin. And he. To me, he didn't. I didn't think he was a handsome guy. I thought he was just like a ski. I don't know, I just. He didn't. But he had talent. And so I remember that of course Michelle got the job, but I. And when he became a star, because I didn't cast him, Wally was the one who discovered him. People thought he was quite beautiful on screen. I thought he's like kind of an average looking guy, but he has, you know, charisma. So. Yeah, yeah, you know, I don't know.

[Julian Morgans]

So. So you believe that there's no. Like. This is gonna sound a little crazy, but bear with me. So the story of Vincent Van Gogh, right? He's sort of famous for never selling a painting, even though these days he's revered as a genius. Is there to your way of thinking, there's no sort of Vincent van Gogh equivalent walking in the streets of la. Who's this undiscovered genius? Because there are just.

[Lauren Lloyd]

It.

[Julian Morgans]

The system doesn't work like that. If you're good in la, you get found.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I believe that. I do. I believe. I mean, you have to be very proactive. You have to, you know, you can't just. Well, I don't know. Sometimes you're just at a party and someone's like, who are you? But yeah, you have to be proactive. Get into, you know, different classes and study and make connections. But I believe that if you have something that's interesting, someone will find you. Am I just being silly?

[Julian Morgans]

No. Am I just being cause for optimism for thousands of people in la?

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

We're nearly running out of time here. I've got two more questions for you.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yes, sir.

[Julian Morgans]

All right, so the first is I want to know if you've kept in touch with Brad Pitt. Do you call him up or does he call you up for Christmas and he's like, hey, Lauren, I'm still famous. Thanks.

[Lauren Lloyd]

No, there are some people that do. Like, Jessica Alba will do that or what. No, but we were neighbors for a long time, he and I, when he was with Jen Aniston, because I lived three doors down from her, so we would hang out a little bit. But no. Mm. Mm. No. Cause I never. I don't think I ever worked with him. I don't think I ever worked with him again. Huh. So, no.

[Julian Morgans]

But surely he's a. You know, like, you're a big deal in his life. Like, maybe, you know, sometimes you're a catalyst.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Well, that's true. I am. That's true. Yeah. That's my job. I didn't know how to capitalize on that. I just, you know, and then everybody tries to claim that they. You know, whoever cast him in Thelma and Louise, they claim they found him. Do you know what I mean? So everybody wants a piece of, like, I found him. So. I don't know.

[Julian Morgans]

I mean, I said before that he's. He's like a big corporation these days.

[Lauren Lloyd]

He is.

[Julian Morgans]

He really is. He's. He's Brad Pitt Proprietary Limited. He must have, like. If he. There'd be probably dozens of people who'd have to find a new job.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Oh, yeah. You know something? That's kind of a good idea. You know what? Maybe you've inspired me, Julian. Maybe I will send Brad my little movie and say, finance this. I found you. All right. I'm gonna do that.

[Julian Morgans]

I think that's a great idea.

[Lauren Lloyd]

I am. I literally am gonna do that.

[Julian Morgans]

You know what? If I was you, I would have done that for every movie for years.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. My brain just didn't think like that. That. It's so. It's bizarre, huh? What's your other question?

[Julian Morgans]

Okay, my other. My other question is this, right? So you made it in Hollywood, right? You came from Pennsylvania, you went to California, you made it. Not only that, but you're in the business of helping other people make it. So tell me what you know about making it. And this doesn't necessarily mean just around movies. Maybe this is in life. Like, what do you know about making it in life?

[Lauren Lloyd]

What do I know about that? A couple of things. Persistence. That's really. Desire and then persistence. I think it's super important. Now, again, let me. Before I go into that, it's a different world now as far as how you can make a living. And so I can only speak for. Well, yeah, I guess this is for everybody. I think it's important to know what makes you happy. And that's like, you take a quiet time and you figure out inside you what's your purpose, what makes you happy, is it. You know, so when you can figure that out and if you have a goal, it's fine. It's good to know what your goal is. You don't have to know how you're going to get there. Just keep your eyes on the goal and be persistent. Do you know what I mean? Because you will get there. You may not know how, because I showed up and I was like, I'm going to. I'm gonna be something, you know, And I went and I. And I. Yeah. And you just kind of say, I'll take this job. I'll take this job, and I'll learn. Because I really didn't know what area I wanted to be in, but I was very, very persistent. You know, you just get fired a lot and blamed for a lot of stuff. And, you know, you get. No, no, no, no. I mean, actors, they get. Well, as a producer, you get 40, 50 no's, and then you get one little yes, you know, and so you keep going until you get that. Also, it's important if you get a no, what was it about? Do you know what I mean? Is it something that really matters? Is it just like it wasn't the right fit? And also, if you don't get whatever, you get this job, you think that's going to change my life? It won't change your life if you don't get it. You know what I mean? Because you never had it. You just keep on going. Do you know what I mean? Each thing, each audition, each interview is an opportunity to meet someone. If you think of it on that level, it won't freak you out. You know what I mean?

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Lauren Lloyd]

People come in and they meet you and they're terrified. And as a casting director, it's your job to make them feel comfortable, you know, so they can give you what they have to offer, you know, so persistence, design.

[Julian Morgans]

I love that.

[Lauren Lloyd]

Yeah.

[Julian Morgans]

And desire. I really like that. Lauren, this has been an absolute pleasure. Really, thank you so much for your time.

[Lauren Lloyd]

My pleasure.

[Julian Morgans]

Hey, just a reminder to check out Lauren's podcast. It's called the Movies that Made Her But Not Me. And I've been listening since we recorded this interview. And it's funny and it's insightful, and you should absolutely check it out. And hey, if you've enjoyed this shirt, my show, what it was like, then you should definitely rate it. And you can do this on Spotify and Apple. Just, just look at your phone right now. Just pick it up and look at it and scroll down and you'll see that there's this star system that allows you to leave a rating. And apparently if we get lots of ratings, it'll boost the show in the rankings. And I just kind of want to try this out. So do it. I'll be eternally grateful. And if you think you've got a story that could work for what it was like, hit me up. I love to hear feedback. I'd love to hear your story ideas. I'm Julianne Morgans on Instagram and morgansjulian on Twitter. Today's episode was produced by Rachel Tuffery. It was edited and mixed by Jimmy Saunders, who also did our theme music. Our cover art is by Naomi Lee Beveridge. And this whole thing has been a super real production. Hey, so that's this week's episode. It's a rerun, but as I mentioned at the start, I know it comes across as a pretty uncritical look at Brad Pitt. We really didn't address the serious allegations against him which were current even when we were recording that. We were recording that in 2022. So, you know, 2016, when, when Angelina Jolie broke up with him and accused him of abuse. That was old information by then and we should have addressed it. But to counterbalance that, this week's bonus episode is an interview with Amanda Kippett, who's an award winning journalist and she's a domestic violence advocate and the co host of the Toxic podcast. So she's been kind enough to join me on this show to tell us everything that she knows. Now, like I said, this conversation is available in full for subscribers. But. But I think it's an important one. So we're going to drop a little preview here. It's just like a couple of minutes, just a little preview of what the bonus episode is all about. So let's do it. Here is Amanda Kippit from the Toxic podcast. Hey, Amanda. Welcome to the show.

[Amanda Kippett]

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

[Julian Morgans]

Thanks so much for making time and joining me today.

[Amanda Kippett]

I am happy to do it and I love that I'm talking to you in Australia because that just seems exotic and cool to meet over here in Arizona.

[Julian Morgans]

You're welcome. You're welcome. It was convenient. It was nothing but convenient for me. It didn't have to go anywhere. Okay, so I've come to you because you've done a fairly scathing episode about Brad Pitt on your show Toxic. Whereas over here on what it was like, I've done a fairly like, how amazing is Brad Pitt episode, which I recorded a few years ago. And now I'm having second thoughts. So, like, what, what's the. What are the accusations against him? Can you just, just run me through it?

[Amanda Kippett]

Yeah, sure. So this happened back in September of 2016, and they were on a private plane. This is when they were married, Pitt and Jolie. They were married and they were with their children on a private plane flying somewhere back to California. And Angelina Jolie says that Brad Pitt was drunk and because they got into an argument, he ended up putting his hands around the neck of one of his children, unsure which child that was. By all accounts and definitions, that's called strangulation. If he pressed for one second or one minute, it's strangulation. And that's very, very serious, very, very violent. There is also an allegation that he struck another child in the face. And then he's also accused of grabbing Angelina and shaking her and throwing her onto his seat. So all these things happened. And then there's another allegation. He poured beer onto one of the children.

[Julian Morgans]

God.

[Amanda Kippett]

So I mean, and this accusation was so severe that the FBI and the Department of Child and Family Services got involved right after they did not find any reason to file charges against him. And I can't speak to what. How they got to that, but I would say that that's a fairly common thing when it is a he said, he said, she said scenario. And he probably has some very well paid attorneys on his side to speak for him and speak to his character before this incident. I'm just, I'm just guessing how this happened.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, no, that seems very.

[Amanda Kippett]

But regardless. Yeah, regardless. She filed for divorce like days later. So I mean, that kind of speaks for itself to me. She's like, days later, done, done with Brad Pitt altogether, you know?

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah. And how do we know all of this? Is this like, is there some sort of law that stipulates this is all going to be made public or why.

[Amanda Kippett]

This was made public in a lawsuit that came to light regarding a vineyard or winery that they co owned. And I'm sorry, I don't have the exact details of that, but it's somehow intertwined in that where they, they wanted to split that up in their divorce. And somehow this was a part of the evidence of that lawsuit that came forward. And Brad Pitt was like, I don't. Maybe he was like, I don't want you to sell your half or something like that. And she's like, I sold my half to, like, complete stranger. Like, I don't even want anything to do with this vineyard with you. Like, get the hell out of here. And then, so this came to light, and I think it was kind of weirdly enough, like, not a huge headline. But then in 2023, their oldest son, Pax, released. Well, I should say he released a statement on social media in 2020 to his private circle of friends. I don't know if one of them screenshotted it. I don't know what happened. But somehow it got made public three years later. And in the statement, Pax was basically calling his father, Brad Pitt, a fucking awful human being and saying that he was a terrible, despicable person and that all of his children, quote, tremble in fear when in his presence. And a lot of people were like, wow, that. For a kid to say that, you.

[Julian Morgans]

Know, that that's skating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something that's wild, like, trembling in fear. He just. It makes him sound like a really controlling, manipulative, tyrannical father, you know, with a drinking problem.

[Amanda Kippett]

Yeah, right. And it makes it sound like this definitely wasn't the first incident. This was just the. The only incident that was made public. And the thing is, after this incident, I think he went into full damage control mode. But also, he may have come to a conclusion that he did have a drinking problem. And good for him. He went into aa, supposedly, and he got help and he got sober. And then there's a bunch of articles just basically singing his praises in the media about how he became sober. And he's this great guy who realized he shouldn't drink.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Kippett]

Completely breezing over anything that he did to his wife and children.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. Okay, so there's a few things that I want to dive into here. First of all, I mean, it seems like you and I are both. There's a couple of data points kind of on this map of. So first, there's, like, 2016, you know, fight on a jet that we find out because of this sort of legal dispute around the vineyard. And then there's this social post, like, these aren't sort of definitive. There's no, like, CCTV footage. Like, it's just sort of these two kind of, like written data points. But it seems to paint this picture. Like, if you fill in the gaps, you're like, okay, this sounds like a pretty shitty dad. You can kind of imagine the kind of environment that his private family would be. Would be subjected to. And it sounds to me like, yeah, he was pretty, Pretty drunk, pretty distant and kind of violent when he was around. I don't know. Like, I guess I want to put it on you. Do you, like, do you. When you read into this, like, what's. What's the world that you're kind of imagining?

[Amanda Kippett]

I think that he is someone who probably had a combination of power and control issues and alcoholism, because alcoholism doesn't cause abuse. You can't say that once you become sober, you're no longer abusive. You're just a sober abuser. So unless he addressed the reasons, the reasons for his power and control, like, that's not going to stop. You know, like those two things are separate, but people like to connect them and blame them, because then that means that your power and control issues are out of your control and your violence toward women is out of your control. But we all know plenty of alcoholics who don't hit their children and don't hit their wives.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Kippett]

So I would hope that he's addressed that. We don't know for sure. I mean, he doesn't need to speak about it publicly, but I hope he has. It's just, it's. If he has tied it directly to his alcoholism and said, well, I'm sober now, so that's never going to happen again.

[Julian Morgans]

No problem.

[Amanda Kippett]

No, that's not true.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. The other thing is, I just think it would be so hard to recalibrate your brain after 30 years of being world famous. Like, like if you've got control problems. Celebrity on that scale is just such a pressure cooker and you're only going to get worse. He must be at a level which is just sort of like this. Like, like his brain must be just wired in such a way that you. You'd never see another regular, you know, mere civilians, because he's just lived through experiences that like 0, 0.1% of us ever go through. So, yeah, rehabilitation, I think, would just be like, impossible.

[Amanda Kippett]

Yeah. And he's surrounded by. Yes. People. You know, like, it's. It's the story of so many celebrities who get in trouble in various ways, whether it's domestic violence or drug and alcohol misuse. It's just being surrounded by people who constantly tell you that you're amazing and brilliant and fabulous and perfect and nothing is your fault. And, you know, this is just the pressure of the job and takes you probably. I can't speak to it. Cause I'm not famous, but it takes you probably to a place where you don't recognize any accountability anymore for your actions.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Kippett]

And through that, it's an easy escape to say like, I messed up, but I don't really have to feel bad for it because it wasn't really my fault.

[Julian Morgans]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So this kind of leads me to like, what would you like to see when you use the word accountability? What do you think is the solution?

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