What It Was Like – "I Made $2M a Year as a Corporate Spy"

Host: Julian Morgans
Guest: Robert Kerbeck
Episode date: January 30, 2026

Episode Overview

In this riveting episode, host Julian Morgans interviews Robert Kerbeck, an actor-turned-corporate spy who made up to $2 million a year infiltrating companies and extracting their deepest secrets using only a phone, his wits, and a talent for impersonation. Kerbeck recounts the wild, ethically murky world of corporate espionage—from pretending to outrank insiders, to developing personas and voices, to ultimately questioning the moral toll of getting rich by deceiving strangers. The episode offers a personal window into corporate subterfuge, the bizarre demands of late-stage capitalism, and the ways individuals rationalize their roles within it.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

From Car Dealerships to Corporate Espionage

• Early Life: Robert was groomed to join his father's car dealership in Philadelphia but found sales uncomfortable and "a little gross."
• Pursuing Acting: Against family expectations, Robert moved to New York to become an actor, initially struggling to find steady income.

“I didn’t like the idea of selling cars to people because it felt a little...gross isn’t quite the right word...you’re trying to sell them for the most amount of money...It just didn’t feel right for me.” — Robert (07:22)

• Entry into Espionage: Through a friend’s cryptic recommendation, Robert met a mysterious woman on the Upper East Side and quickly found himself trained in corporate espionage, despite initially not knowing what the job entailed.

The Mechanics of Corporate Spying

What Did the Job Entail?

• Acting & Deception: The firm only hired actors. Robert and colleagues used their skills to impersonate high-ranking executives, manipulating lower-level employees over the phone.
• Targets & Clients: Clients were major corporations, like (hypothetically) Apple wanting intelligence about Google, Microsoft, etc.

“We were using our acting skills and the good old anonymity of the phone call to get people inside major corporations to tell us things they should never, ever tell us.” — Robert (10:06)

What Kind of Information Was Sought?

• Sensitive employee data, org charts, recruitment targets, technical information, product pipeline details, and more.
• This information was used extensively for headhunting (“poaching top talent”) and strategic corporate moves.

“They wanted to know...not only who was working at the company but who the rock stars were at the company.” — Robert (11:40)

Techniques and Personas

• Robert evolved distinct impersonations and tactics, including “I’m way up the food chain, help me and you’ll have a friend at the top.”
• Other spies relied on accents or relatable personas (e.g., a struggling Irish assistant, or "dumb secretary").
• The use of research (voicemails for accents, corporate hierarchies) and psychological manipulation was key.

“For me, I used: I am more senior than you, not just a little bit more senior. I am way up the food chain. You, you have two choices...I can be your best friend or I can be your worst enemy.” — Robert (20:07)

Memorable Voices & Methods

• Robert’s German accent (as “Gerhardt from Frankfurt”) proved particularly effective:

“When I would do that German accent, people would smile and laugh and they’d go, ‘Oh my gosh, Gerhardt! Oh, I think I’ve heard your name...What’s up buddy, how can we help you?’...The German one was just money in the bank.” — Robert (24:02, 24:35)

Success Rate and Training

• There was virtually no formal training; most aspiring spies failed due to the job’s demands for improvisation and quick thinking.
• Only a handful succeeded out of many hopefuls.

The Wealth, Lifestyle, and Rationalizations

Financial Rewards

“We started out at $8 an hour, and by the time I was done, I was making $2 million a year as a corporate spy.” — Robert (28:28)

• Robert’s lifestyle transformed: vacations, a Malibu house, no longer worrying about money.

Moral Quandaries

• He justified it as a temporary gig until acting paid off, but that day never came.
• The work felt less ethical than even car sales, which he’d previously shunned.

“I was only doing the job temporarily because I was going to be a successful working actor...At a certain point...I went, whoa, maybe I’m not going to get a TV series...The only thing I had was this spying...And that again...was the rationalization I used.” — Robert (29:05, 29:42)

Family and Personal Conflict

• His wife, from a punk background, accepted and even helped run the business.
• A pivotal moment: his child overheard him and called him out—"But dad, it’s dishonest"—prompting Robert to leave espionage.

“That was the moment when I said, I have to get out of it.” — Robert (32:01)

Most Valuable Secrets & Industry Impact

Example: Pre-Financial Crisis Intel

• Extracted the names of a secretive 8-person mortgage-backed securities team at a major investment bank—a team whose trades precipitated the 2008 financial crisis.

“Those names...How much were they worth? Some portion of $1 billion.” — Robert (35:12) “I wasn’t the first one to know there was going to be a financial crisis, but I’m pretty sure I was the first actor to know.” — Robert (36:36)

Emotional & Legal Tolls

Human Cost

• Sometimes, targets became emotionally attached. One woman battling cancer—whom Robert convinced he was a friendly colleague—told him he was her “favorite person at the firm.”

“Everything I’d told her is a lie. So that’s a pretty, you know, messed up situation...something I’m not proud of.” — Robert (38:15)

Legal Gray Area

• Consulted a lawyer who said what they were doing was “in the gray—the very dark gray.”
• Potential for wire fraud charges and decades in prison.

“Not only could we have gone to jail for decades, but there were also significant financial penalties as well.” — Robert (39:11)

Reflections on Corporate Culture & The American Dream

Corporate Malaise

• Most insiders Robert spoke to seemed miserable, which made prying information even easier.

“The easiest thing to bond over was...how terrible the company we work for is...Most people that I talked to were miserable...They just didn’t seem happy.” — Robert (42:06)

Diminishing Faith in the American Dream

• Robert reflects that the ideal of meritocratic corporate success is tarnished—young people especially are cynical about climbing the corporate ladder.

“We have a generation of young people...that they’re a little checked out...because the chase is so unpleasant and requires so much stuff that you don’t want to do.” — Robert (45:00)

Would He Do It Again?

• “I wouldn’t make any changes...I wouldn’t. And that’s not to say that I’m proud of what I did, but the journey....I had to go through all that to get to where I am.” — Robert (46:59)

His Father's View

• Though his father was proud of his acting foray, when Robert revealed the spy business, his father “wanted me to stop doing it...he was very concerned.” (48:08)

The State of Corporate Spying Today

• Corporate espionage remains alive and well in the LinkedIn era—if anything, demand persists or increases.
• “All corporations hire spies today.” — Robert (50:24)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the value of information:
  “Those names...How much were they worth? Some portion of $1 billion.” — Robert (35:12)

• On the role of acting:
  “The firm only hired actors...to get people inside major corporations to tell us things they should never, ever tell us.” — Robert (10:06)

• On moral exit:
  “My kid said...‘But dad, it’s dishonest.’...And that was the moment when I said, I have to get out of it.” — Robert (32:01)

• On contemporary corporate misery:
  “Most people that I talked to were miserable...they just didn’t seem happy at...that corporate world.” — Robert (43:14)

• On the American Dream:
  “I think there’s been a real...hit...The chase is so unpleasant and requires so much stuff that you don’t want to do...I think that’s where the American dream has taken a bit of a hit.” — Robert (45:00)

Important Segments (Timestamps)

• [06:32-10:04] — Robert’s entry into espionage; the cryptic job interview and discovery of his new career.
• [13:51-18:19] — How spy calls worked; acting, manipulation, psychological tactics.
• [28:20-30:23] — The financial ascent from $8/hour to $2M/year; the lifestyle and escalating rationalizations.
• [32:01] — The family wake-up call and the decision to leave corporate spying.
• [33:47-36:51] — Biggest secrets: identifying the architects of the financial crash.
• [38:09] — The “favorite person” moment and moral low-points.
• [39:01] — Legal risks and gray zones.
• [42:04-44:43] — Corporate culture, misery, and cynicism about “success.”
• [49:36] — The modern state of corporate espionage.

Tone and Style

Julian’s questions are probing yet conversational, unveiling the inner workings of a world few know exists. Robert is candid, self-effacing, and often wry, oscillating between pride in his cunning and discomfort with the ethical morass he inhabited.

Final Thoughts

The episode offers a rare, humanizing look at an invisible industry—how vast fortunes are moved on whispered secrets and how the logic of capitalism can twist “success” into a double-edged sword. Listening to Robert Kerbeck, we glimpse both the allure and the cost of inhabiting gray zones, and the complex ways people justify their paths in a system that rewards cleverness over conscience.