Transcript

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Lily Rose Lee (Michelle Knight) (2:17)

It wasn't until we got inside the house that I seen the red flags. But then it was already too late. The door was already locked behind me. And then even more, you know, heaviness. My heart started pounding as we're going up the stairs. And then he opens a door, shoves me through it. And said, you'll never see home again.

Summary

What It Was Like — Episode Summary

Episode: “I Was Held Captive in This House for 11 Years”

Podcast: What It Was Like
Host: Julian Morgans
Guest: Lily Rose Lee (formerly Michelle Knight)
Release Date: January 8, 2026

Overview

In this intensely moving episode, host Julian Morgans speaks with survivor Lily Rose Lee (formerly Michelle Knight) about her abduction and 11-year captivity at the hands of Ariel Castro in Cleveland, Ohio. They explore not only the horrifying details of Lily's ordeal—from her abduction as a teenager to the daily abuses she suffered and narrowly survived—but also her resilience, survival strategies, and ongoing journey of healing and hope. The conversation is raw, candid, occasionally dark, and ultimately inspirational, providing a visceral insight into long-term captivity and what it truly takes to reclaim life after unimaginable trauma.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Lily’s Difficult Childhood

Background (06:28):
- Lily describes her upbringing filled with instability, abuse, and uncertainty.
- “I would say my life was horrible. We were moving to one place to the next. I didn't even know when we were going to have a bed to sleep in or we going to be sleeping in a car.” — Lily (06:28)
Early adulthood brought more challenges, including losing custody of her young son due to abuse in her mother's home.

2. The Day of Abduction

Events leading up to abduction (08:42):
- Lily accepted a ride from her friend’s father, Ariel Castro, while trying to reach an appointment about regaining custody of her son.
- She describes Castro as unremarkable and trustworthy in appearance, someone from her familiar circle.
The trap (10:25–12:45):
- Castro lured Lily with a story about giving her a puppy.
- Once inside his house, “the door was already locked behind me. I had no way out.”
- “Then he opens a door, shoves me through it, and said, 'You'll never see home again.'” — Lily (02:17, 12:02)
Violent restraint:
- Tied and hung from a wall, gagged, and left for weeks: “He hung me up like an ornament on the wall, like a fish. He tied me up around my legs, my arms, and my neck. I was hanging this far off the ground.” — Lily (12:02)

3. Early Captivity: Dehumanization and Survival

Physical suffering (14:34–16:45):
- Forced to soil herself, starve, and endure sensory deprivation.
- “I was forced to go on myself.”
Isolation and fear:
- She describes the numbness and confusion of extended sensory deprivation and pain.
- She refused food and water initially, fearing contamination.

4. Adjustment & Mental Survival

Retention of hope (19:41):
- Lily was clear-minded in her focus on escape, even in her most broken moments.
- “I was waiting for a moment that he let his guard down.”
Social isolation:
- Interaction with others in the early months was limited; friends and family noise from downstairs was rare and unreachable.

5. Arrival of Other Victims & Changes in Captivity

Amanda Berry’s abduction (20:35–23:47):
- Lily describes knowing another girl was abducted and the odd, “quiet” day as Castro prepared another room.
- On seeing Amanda: “She said, 'Oh my God, I'm glad you know who I am.' And she gave me a hug and we both cried, even though we shouldn't have cried, because that's what he gets off on, is misery.” — Lily (23:28)
Common experiences of violence and control:
- All captives were subjected to psychological terror: threats, beatings, and being weaponized against each other.
- “He was more like a Jekyll and Hyde.” — Lily (23:50)

6. Prolonged Captivity: Daily Routine and Despair

Emotional impacts (26:58–28:46):
- The monotony and psychological suffering created periods of hopelessness and thoughts of suicide.
- Lily relates an escape attempt foiled at the last minute, capturing the relentless “almosts” that defined her years inside.

7. Forced Birth, Miscarriages, and Trauma

Delivering Amanda’s child (29:56–33:13):
- Lily was made to deliver Amanda Berry’s baby, despite her own repeated forced miscarriages.
- “For so many years he had beaten me and aborted five of… my babies. Being forced to help somebody give birth. It was like, eh…I didn't really want to do it.” — Lily (30:07)
- She saved the baby’s life, feeling in that moment that “God was bringing a special gift to all three girls because there’s no way that this guy can keep a baby in this house for so long and not get caught.” — Lily (33:13)
Questions on why Castro did not allow Lily’s pregnancies to continue:
- Her need for C-sections was his rationalization; he preferred to avoid medical intervention.

8. Escape Attempts and Physical Decline

Escape stories (35:05–36:33):
- Lily recounts a failed attempt to jump the fence, made impossible by extreme weakness and malnutrition.
- Brutal daily sustenance: “He was just feeding us ramen noodles, hot dogs, and grease. That's disgusting, by the way.” — Lily (36:16)
Gina’s arrival and Lily’s “big sister” role (37:07):
- Gina, the youngest and most vulnerable, inspired Lily to protect and support her.
- “There was days that I stepped in, and I took the abuse. I've done it when I was little for my brothers.” — Lily (37:56)

9. Psychological Manipulation and Near-Rescue

Hopelessness and missed rescue (39:29–40:34):
- A moment when police were within reach at a neighboring house almost led to freedom, but Castro intervened just in time.
- “That was my pivotal moment, where I wish the officer would have turned around and looked right at me.” — Lily (40:34)
Suicidal ideation and “miraculous” survival (41:00–42:52):
- Lily survived a suicide attempt and a near-fatal allergic reaction, attributing her continued life to divine intervention.
- “For some odd reason, God broke the rope, and I'm still here.” — Lily (42:38)

10. The Escape (43:07–47:38)

Final day:
- Castro left the house and failed to secure the doors; Amanda was able to summon help.
- “I pushed it open, I peeked out, and I said, Amanda, are you okay?… I seen a shiny badge. And then they said, we found them. We found them. And I ran straight up in their arms and said, ‘Don’t let me go. Please don’t let me go.’” — Lily (45:14)
- “I kissed the ground and said, thank God.” — Lily (47:39)
Physical collapse upon rescue:
- Lily required immediate hospitalization and was diagnosed with a life-threatening bacterial infection from years of neglect.

11. Aftermath and Healing

Lack of family support (52:13–52:31):
- Lily’s parents did not come to see her after the rescue: “I don't know.” — Lily (52:36)
Public response:
- “All the outpouring love and support… was amazing. Their love and support helped us build the life, rebuild our life.” — Lily (52:50)
Media scrutiny (53:43–54:53):
- Lily criticized the intrusive and insensitive press, advising, “Sometimes it's best to wait and let someone heal first and then let them be at their best so they can help the others out there that are going through similar situations.” — Lily (54:39)

12. The System and Long Road to Recovery

Financial realities (55:44–56:51):
- Donations from the public helped, but there was no substantial compensation; donations were taxed and split among the victims.
Health challenges (57:03–57:12):
- Long, difficult recovery: “I was in hospice for a year.” — Lily (57:10)
Reunion with son denied (57:38–58:49):
- Her son’s adoptive family refused contact due to fears about media and notoriety.
- “What happened to me shouldn't be the reasons why I can't see my son.” — Lily (58:34)
Lasting physical consequences:
- Lily was left infertile, partially blind, partially deaf because of Castro’s violence (58:58).

13. Castro’s Fate and Forgiveness

Castro’s suicide and Lily’s response (59:34–60:25):
- Castro killed himself in prison. Lily’s reaction was detached, centered on forgiveness:
- “In order to heal myself, I had to forgive. I will never forget… But I wanted to break the emotional chain of a devil. Because I didn't want the devil to win.” — Lily (60:04)

14. Faith, Freedom, and Moving Forward

Discovery of faith (60:35–61:00):
- Lily found spirituality during captivity after a childhood without belief: “I had to reteach myself everything… because I was taught lies.” — Lily (60:35)
Not in touch with fellow survivors (61:00–61:48):
- All three women went their separate ways after freedom, finding it too hard to maintain contact.

15. Lily’s Life Today and Philosophy

Message of resilience and hope:
- “Telling my story helps others that are going through similar situations know that they are the hero of their own story and they are stronger than what they think they are. And to never give up on yourself.” — Lily (61:58)
- “Life is too short to be mad and upset at the world… I choose to look at the brighter side of life and try not to be so angry.” — Lily (62:20)
Survivor wisdom and humor (64:44):
- “They're miserable in their own life, and they have nothing better to do than to pick on somebody like me. And you know what they can do to herself? Kick rocks.” — Lily (64:44)
Joy in present life (64:58–65:45):
- Lily is now married to a supportive partner and surrounds herself with beloved pets, art, and positivity.
- “He said to me, I want to know you for who you are today, not what happened to you in the past. And that made my heart melt.” — Lily (65:05)
Encouragement for contact and commissions (66:29):
- Lily invites listeners to connect via her Facebook, commission paintings, or request speaking engagements.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“He hung me up like an ornament on the wall, like a fish… The only thing that he gave me to lay my head on was a wooden box at this point.”
— Lily Rose Lee (Michelle Knight), (12:02; 19:02)
“I was sitting here watching him go through my purse, and he takes the picture of my son, and he rips it up in front of me. And at that point, I just, like, literally punched the wall because I was done.”
— Lily (13:12)
“There was one time when he wasn't paying attention, and I literally tried to jump over the fence… I ripped the inside of my leg on the fence…”
— Lily (35:05)
“I felt like God was bringing a special gift to all three girls because there’s no way that this guy can keep a baby in this house for so long and not get caught.”
— Lily (33:13)
“For some odd reason, God broke the rope, and I'm still here.”
— Lily (42:38) describing her suicide attempt
“I pushed it open, I peeked out, and I said, Amanda, are you okay?… I seen a shiny badge. And then they said, we found them. We found them. And I ran straight up in their arms and said, ‘Don’t let me go. Please don’t let me go.’”
— Lily (45:14)
“Their love and support helped us build the life, rebuild our life.”
— Lily (53:10)
“In order to heal myself, I had to forgive. I will never forget what happened to me… But I wanted to break the emotional chain of a devil. Because I didn't want the devil to win.”
— Lily (60:04)
“Telling my story helps others… know that they are the hero of their own story and they are stronger than what they think they are. And to never give up on yourself.”
— Lily (61:58)
“They're miserable in their own life… You know what they can do to herself? Kick rocks.”
— Lily (64:44)

Important Segments and Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:17 | Lily describes the moment of her abduction | | 06:28 | Details of her troubled childhood and path to motherhood | | 12:02 | The onset of captivity—first hours and days, physical torment | | 20:35 | Arrival of another victim, Amanda Berry | | 29:56 | Forced to deliver Amanda’s baby after suffering her own lost pregnancies | | 35:05 | Failed escape attempts and physical effects of long-term captivity | | 37:07 | Gina’s arrival; Lily’s protective “big sister” role | | 41:00 | Lily’s suicide attempt and near-death experiences | | 45:14 | Description of the final day: escape and rescue, culminating in “Don’t let me go.” | | 53:43 | Reflections on the media, advice to journalists and the public | | 55:44 | Reality of compensation and financial support | | 57:38 | Unable to reconnect with her son post-escape | | 59:34 | Reaction to Castro’s suicide and the journey to forgiveness | | 61:58 | Empowering message for other survivors | | 62:20 | “I choose to look at the brighter side of life and try not to be so angry” — Lily's current outlook | | 64:44 | “Kick rocks” — Lily on coping with negativity and criticism | | 64:58 | Happiness and love in the present: marriage, pets, and creative work | | 66:29 | Informing listeners on how to contact and support Lily |

Closing Thoughts

This episode is an unflinching but ultimately hopeful exploration of the darkest and brightest parts of human nature. Lily’s candor about suffering, her pragmatic yet optimistic view of life, and her advocacy for other survivors make for a deeply affecting listen. Through her testimony, listeners gain rare insight into both the horrors of captivity and the strength it takes to reclaim one’s future.

To contact or support Lily, or commission a painting, visit her Facebook (Lilian Lee), as shared in the episode.