Samantha Stietz (2:18)

When he took the blindfold off, I found I was handcuffed to a ring on the wall of a soundproof bunker. He reveals to me that he took two weeks off work and that we're going to be spending two weeks together in this 7x7 bunker. He tells me there's sandbags on the outside. He tells me how thick the walls are. They're insulated like There's. There's rings on the wall to, like, hook handcuffs to. To, like, a sex dungeon. There's food, first aid supplies, water, a bucket with, like, a toilet lid.

Samantha Stietz (2:56)

And. I'm. Okay, Christopher, what are we gonna do for two weeks? Like, you want to talk to me, I am all ears. I got nowhere to be, apparently.

Julian Morgans (3:05)

Hey, I'm Julian Morgans, and you're listening to what It Was like, the show that asks people who have lived through big, dramatic events what it was like.

Julian Morgans (3:25)

Hey, welcome back. I think there's this really interesting interplay between pop culture depictions of crime and the ways that actual criminals behave because of pop culture. Okay, so, for example, I'm thinking of all of the wannabe gangsters out there who have taken their aesthetic cues from Scarface. Or, like, all of the drug dealers that I knew in my early 20s. Like, the, you know, the guys in high school selling weed and stuff. They were all absolutely obsessed with Goodfellas. And, yeah, they all had the Scarface poster. You know, you've probably seen this too. So that's like, an innocent example of this crime pop culture feedback loop. But I think there's some really nasty examples, too. Like, try Googling Scream copycat crimes. This is a real thing, okay? There's a. There's a Wikipedia page all about it, and it's basically just multiple examples of people who have been stabbed by guys wearing ghostface masks, just like in the Scream films. These are. These are assailants who have seen the Scream franchise, they've seen the movies, and they're like, oh, I'm gonna go stab someone wearing a ghost face mask. It's a real thing. Now I bring all this up because today's story is another eerie example of that feedback loop. My guest today, Samantha Stietz, spent 13 years being stalked by a man that she met in college. Now, the stalker's name is Christopher Thomas, and one day he abducted Samantha and he took her to a bunker that he'd secretly built inside a storage unit near her home. And later, in court, he admitted that he'd drawn inspiration from the Netflix series. You. You might have seen this show. It's the one with that glass, soundproof kidnap bunker and that guy who thinks that he's like a romantic hero, but he's completely delusional. Now, this is what fascinates me about today's story. It's just this tragic blend of pop culture fantasy and good old fashioned narcissism with a bit of, like, garden variety misogyny just sprinkled all over it and my guest Samantha, who's going to tell us this story, she's a social worker, so she's very good at reading people. And I think she, she's very observant and she gives us this fascinating look at, at how her stalker behaved and this kind of twisted fairy tale that he'd built in his own mind. And just before we get into it, just a, just a little note on this week's subscriber episode. We're looking at the death of Eliza Lamb, who was a 21 year old Canadian tourist found in a Los Angeles water tank at the top of a Hotel in 2013. And you might remember that case. There's been a few documentaries about it and I'm speaking with the hotel's manager. So that's our subscriber only episode this week. Let's get on with the main show. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Samantha Stites, who was stalked and kidnapped, but then managed to escape.

Julian Morgans (6:19)

Hey, Samantha, welcome to the show.

Samantha Stietz (6:21)

Thanks for having me.

Julian Morgans (6:23)

The pleasure's all mine. Let's start with a bit about your upbringing. You've always lived in Michigan.

Julian Morgans (6:31)

More or less?

Samantha Stietz (6:31)

Definitely. Always the US but for the most part, yeah, always lived in Michigan.

Julian Morgans (6:36)

Okay, cool. And what were you like as a kid? You know, give me a sense of like, who you were.

Samantha Stietz (6:42)

Yeah, I am an only child. I was raised by my mom. My dad lived nearby, but they split up when I was maybe four or five. And I saw my dad a few times a year here and there, but there was no like formal custody arrangement or anything like that.

Samantha Stietz (7:00)

So it was a lot of like, me on my own. I played in the woods a lot. My mom had some different boyfriends growing up. Some were better than others and my mom and I butted heads a lot. And then I graduated high school and was like, I am gonna go off to college. I don't want to be in my hometown anymore. I don't want to be living with my mom. I want to go out on my own and make something of myself. So I went to a state college a couple hours south of where I was from. I became a Christian at some point in college, which was really transformative for me.

Samantha Stietz (7:39)

And is ironically where I met my stalker was through this Christian organization.

Julian Morgans (7:45)

Yeah, tell me about that. How did you, how did you end up joining this Christian organization?

Samantha Stietz (7:50)

I met this girl who, we had pretty similar upbringings and she, she was just genuinely like a happy person. I didn't, I never grew up with any sort of religion or faith, so. But I Think it was really what I needed at the time in terms of just my own identity and growth as a teenager. Trying to find their way in the world.

Momentous Supplement Advertiser (8:10)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (8:10)

So through that we were doing some. We're tossing a Frisbee out on this, like, lawn on this off campus apartment, and this guy comes up and it was Christopher, my stalker. And he. I mean, I could tell he was older than me. He was probably six years older, I would guess, which is significant when you're. I was 19, and so he would have been 24 maybe.

Julian Morgans (8:40)

Do you remember anything about his appearance or his mannerisms that stuck out to you?

Samantha Stietz (8:46)

I mean, he was kind of a short, chubby, red headed, balding guy. He was awkward. He was pretty soft spoken. Sometimes you had to, like, ask him to repeat himself. Wasn't really good with eye contact.

Samantha Stietz (9:04)

Just not somebody who had a lot of good social skills.

Samantha Stietz (9:08)

But he was into athletics. He was, you know, new to the school. I think he had transferred or came with some community college credits or something and was looking to meet some people and kind of put himself out there. So I don't. I don't really recall much of my initial conversation with him. It was just kind of, you know, generic things you would. Two new students would talk about, like, where are you from, what are you majoring in? That kind of thing.

Julian Morgans (9:36)

Okay. So it's not like you guys became friends on the spot or there wasn't any attraction there. It was more like he was talking to you and you felt like it was insignificant.

Samantha Stietz (9:46)

I don't know what his level of attraction was, but he could have been one of a thousand people and he wouldn't have stood out to me, really. He used to go by the name Red. He would wear red shirts a lot. He had red hair.

Samantha Stietz (10:02)

So that in itself was kind of unique, but it was just, I don't know, some quirky guy.

Julian Morgans (10:08)

Okay. And then I understand that the next interaction was on Facebook. He found you.

Samantha Stietz (10:13)

Yeah, I don't recall probably my first few interactions with him, but he friended me on Facebook and In, you know, 2011, 2012, that was really common. But he began messaging me and it was all very acquaintance type questions. How's your day going? What's going on? Or are you going to this or that or those types of things? And it just kind of started. It just kind of ramped up from there.

Julian Morgans (10:41)

Okay, and when you say ramped up, like it. Was it gradual or is it. Was it a pretty steep incline?

Samantha Stietz (10:48)

I would say it felt gradual.

Samantha Stietz (10:53)

Like the frequency of messages. I'd say gradually increased. And then really where things started to get strange was I found like a rose on my car at my internship that I had just started. Like, this was the next year. So a whole, you know, school year went by. And then that following fall, I had moved like 20, 30 minutes away to a downtown campus and I find this random rose on my car. And then I found a rose and a letter on my doorstep at my house a couple days later. I was like, this has to be the same person. I couldn't figure out, you know, I start asking who's, you know, who's done this? Because now they know my car and where I live, you know, no signature, no nothing. And I'm kind of like feeling uneasy, like, oh, maybe this is like a secret admirer, but who would know this?

Julian Morgans (11:47)

What did the letter say?

Samantha Stietz (11:48)

It was like some sort of love poem. And after I read it, I was like, I don't like this. This is not. This doesn't feel right. It had like a couple like Bible sounding phrases in it.

Samantha Stietz (12:05)

And it just felt kind of icky. Clearly this person, it's not just a friendly rose. It's like a romantic sort of rose.

Julian Morgans (12:14)

Yeah. And it's kind of cheesy as well. And it sounds like there's no sort of like self awareness there. They weren't like, hey, this is funny. This is like kitsch and funny. Right? They sound like it was like really earnest in a, in a yucky way.

Samantha Stietz (12:26)

Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like a, a joking sort of thing. It was just like a genuine sort of love poem. My roommate read it and she was like, I think you should call the police. I'm like, and say what? Somebody wrote me a love poem and left me a flower at my doorstep. Like, I don't think the police in the city are really going to worry about that. Like, I need to figure out who it is though. So I'm asking every single person I can think of, like, and I feel stupid, like, hey, did you leave me a rose or two?

Julian Morgans (12:58)

That's an embarrassing thing to ask.

Samantha Stietz (13:00)

It is, it is. And so I just feel silly and like asking all these guys I can think of, like, I think it's a guy. And I asked Christopher and you know, he says no. And, and eventually he, he said, he eventually admits, actually, yes, it's me.

Samantha Stietz (13:20)

And so he only had my number for a short period of time. We didn't communicate much via text, but during this rose incident was really the only time we ever spoke on the phone or texted because I Blocked him after this, you know, he admitted what it was. And I was like, hey, I have no interest in you. Like, he's been putting out feelers. And I've been like, nope, I got other things to do. Not interested. Like, sorry, you know, and he's not getting the picture. Like, no. And also, how did you know where my internship was? And he's like, oh, I drove down and I followed you there one day. Just like that wasn't weird. And I was like, you what? You followed me. Like you got on your motorcycle and waited for me to leave and then you followed me there and left a rose in my car. Like, that's not normal. Then I blocked him. I was like, leave me alone. I'm not mad at you. I just don't want to communicate with you and I don't know what else to do besides block him. So that was what I did. Yeah.

Julian Morgans (14:28)

And then what happened?

Samantha Stietz (14:30)

He showed up. My grandpa passed away a couple months after that. And he must have heard through the grapevine or something.

Samantha Stietz (14:42)

That my grandpa had died. And he showed up with more flowers right when I was finishing my shift. And we both had to take this bus back to the main campus. And I like, make this scene at this bus stop because I'm like, I've told you. Like, I want you to leave me alone. I've blocked you. Like, we've been through this. I don't have interest in you. I don't want to see you or talk to you. And he just was like, well, I just. I don't know why not? Like. And I just kind of blow up at him at this bus stop. Like people are kind of side eyeing us and I'm. It's the first time I'm like raising my voice and yelling at him, like, leave me alone.

Julian Morgans (15:25)

Hey, we're gonna take a quick ad break, but stick around because we'll be be back with more what it was like.

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Samantha Stietz (16:02)

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Julian Morgans (18:23)

Were you feeling afraid at this point?

Samantha Stietz (18:26)

I wasn't feeling afraid at this point. I was more annoyed than anything and it just seemed like frustrating.

Julian Morgans (18:35)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (18:36)

And at that point it was so close to graduation that I was like, I'm going to graduate and leave this campus and he's still going to be here. And the problem's going to be solved. Like, I'm going to be right. Getting myself out of this situation by doing that.

Julian Morgans (18:50)

That was the finish line in your mind?

Samantha Stietz (18:52)

In my mind, yeah. I didn't seem like I had heard other people approaching campus police with concerns about people they had gone on dates with or, you know, roofies or other things where hearing their experiences led me to believe the campus police weren't going to be helpful to me in any way.

Julian Morgans (19:13)

Okay, so you hadn't gone to the police?

Samantha Stietz (19:16)

No, because I thought. I mean, he's. I didn't think he was going to, like, harm me. We were never in a relationship. It was just, at this point, he wasn't even contacting me or trying to talk to me. I would just see him places.

Momentous Supplement Advertiser (19:27)

Okay.

Samantha Stietz (19:28)

So I was like, well, what's really going to be done about that? And I was so busy at the time, I was like, well, I'm going to graduate and all of this is going to end. So that was kind of my solution.

Julian Morgans (19:38)

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, that's. That's reasonable. And then when you graduated, what happened?

Samantha Stietz (19:44)

I moved back to my hometown. I wanted to go do this internship out of state and then go to grad school. Right before I was leaving for this out of state internship, like, two days before, I see him in my hometown, like, two and a half hours away from the university we went to. And it's a small town. Like, I graduated with, like 90 people. We have one stop light. We have no fast food. Like, it's a small place. It's beautiful. But I see him on his motorcycle, and my heart just drops. Like, what is he doing here? And I'm with my boss, who's kind of like a father figure. And I had told him about him, and he was like, let me go deal with it. And I was like, no, I want to see what he has to say. And so he's like, okay. And I get out and I talk to him. I was like, what are you doing here? Like, why are you in my hometown? Why are you. What are you doing? What could you possibly have to say to me? He's like, well, I don't have a way to, like, communicate with you. I was like, because I don't want to talk to you. Like, I don't know what is so difficult about this. He's like, I just wanted to let you know I got accepted to the same internship you're going to. And I was wondering, since I don't have a car, I just have a motorcycle, if you could. If I could ride with you out there.

Samantha Stietz (21:03)

And I just, my heart just sank because I was like leaving in two days. I was so excited for this. And I was like, there is no way in hell I am going to out of state. And this guy, one, I'm not giving him a ride. Two, I'm not going to a program where he's also going to be. And this was like a 30 person program. It wasn't big. I was like, there's no way we're both doing this. I was like, either he's getting kicked out or I'm not going.

Samantha Stietz (21:30)

And I just, I didn't have anything to say to him. I was just like, no, leave me alone. Like, I don't know. And we got back in the car And I told Mr. Mosher, Craig, like my boss, what was going on. And he's like, so tell me about this guy again. And I kind of like, talk through. And the more I, like, talked about it over those two, three years, the more I was like, if somebody told me this, I'd be like, that person's stalking you. And he's like, I think it's time to look at a personal protective order through the court.

Samantha Stietz (22:08)

And I was like, yeah, I think you're right. Like, I never would have guessed that he would follow me off the college campus. And maybe that's naive, but I mean, I was like 21.

Julian Morgans (22:20)

This was a long time ago. 21's pretty young. And I guess it takes one of those moments to sort of tell the full story out loud for you to sort of hear it yourself, for you to go, hold on, I'm seeing this objectively for the first time. And this is a problem.

Samantha Stietz (22:35)

Yeah. Because you just think this is the sheepish, like, awkward person that, yeah. Keeps asking me out and I don't have interest. Like, I don't think this is a person who's stalking me or ever gonna hurt me or.

Julian Morgans (22:48)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (22:48)

Follow me across the country. Like there's no way. So he hearing that, I was shocked. And.

Samantha Stietz (22:56)

I made a. A PPO request in my county. It was valid in the state I lived in. I showed it to the internship coordinators, they revoked his acceptance, told him he couldn't come, he's kicked out, blah, blah, blah.

Julian Morgans (23:12)

Okay. And did you feel like this was hopefully, fingers crossed maybe gonna be the end of it?

Samantha Stietz (23:19)

Yeah, I thought if, if police or a judge were saying, leave this person alone, if he won't listen to me, he would listen to a man in a robe or a uniform.

Julian Morgans (23:31)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (23:32)

That seemed like kind of a done deal. So.

Samantha Stietz (23:37)

The judge actually granted a six year ppo, which is unheard of. It isn't allowed in a lot of states. It's a long period of time. It prohibited him from purchasing firearms. It prohibits him from having any. If he's within a certain distance of me, I could call the police and have him removed. And I went on with my life. And to my knowledge at the time I did that internship had a lot of different per. Like my mom passed away, my grandma passed away, I got in a serious relationship, we broke up. I did grad school. Like a whole bunch of life happened in like seven years. So I didn't think about him at all. And then I moved back like, like to my hometown years later. And this was in 2020. I bought a house.

Julian Morgans (24:22)

Nice.

Samantha Stietz (24:23)

The pandemic happens. Life is kind of weird. I'm like trying to make friends. And I play in this soccer league, this co ed soccer league. And I grew up playing soccer. Like it's one of my favorite things to do. It's a great way to meet people, great way to stay in shape, blah, blah, blah. So I me, I'm there one day and I see Christopher and he's not from this town. I had no idea he was living anywhere in the area. And I hadn't seen him in since 2014. Since that day. I saw him at, at my town and he asked me for a ride. I hadn't seen him at all. And he looked thinner, like more in shape. I immediately panic because I think it's not like he's from this city. Like that would make more sense. But he's not. So what's he doing here?

Samantha Stietz (25:19)

And kind of begins this two year saga of like, he never approaches me to talk to me, he never acknowledges my existence. We could be strangers, okay.

Julian Morgans (25:33)

But he just sort of incidentally happens to show up and you sort of see him watching.

Samantha Stietz (25:38)

Yeah, he's participating in this soccer league. So we're on different teams. He also still doesn't have any friends. He's like, does isn't coming with somebody like regularly. He isn't playing consistently on a team. He's kind of hopping from team to team.

Samantha Stietz (25:56)

Doesn't appear to like hang out with people or sit with the same people when he's not playing. Same kind of thing. Like he's awkward, he's not good at soccer. Like he's quick, but he's not. He's not good at soccer. The PPO had expired before I started, before I began seeing him. So I was like, it's not like I can just renew it because I see him. So I was like, you know, what do I. What do I do?

Julian Morgans (26:24)

That's creepy, though, in itself, isn't it, that the. The PPO is expired, and then suddenly he just pops up in your life again.

Samantha Stietz (26:31)

Yeah. I mean, the PPO expired right. Right before. Right around when I moved back to the state. And I would think, well, if he still has interest, wouldn't he approach me and try to talk to me?

Julian Morgans (26:44)

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So how does this escalate?

Samantha Stietz (26:48)

So we have this interaction on the soccer field where he starts, like, substituting on the team I'm playing against, like, every week, like, no matter what team it is. And we go chasing after this ball, and he's faster than me, so he beats me to this ball, and he just does this, like, taunting face. He sticks his tongue out, and he goes, ah. And I'm just like. I lose it. Like, I sub off. I leave the field. I, like, walk, and nobody knew. I, like, went toward the bathrooms, and I. My eyes well up with tears, and I was just terrified. Like, I was like, there's no way this is a coincidence. This person is getting under my skin, and I don't know what to do. It's not like he's. You know, he's not even contacting me. How do I even file for a new PPO when there's no. I mean, other than taking photos of him in other public places where I'm seeing him, it's like the same. Same thing all over again. But I don't know what to do at this point. And one of the girls on this soccer team I was on is actually an assistant prosecutor for the county we live in. She knows about it. She's like, if you want help applying for a new ppo, I'm happy to help you or connect you with our victim advocate, if you want. You know, I. I kind of thought about it a couple weeks. I was like, I think it's time. And I apply. And they. They denied the. Essentially, I would have to appear in court with him before a judge, and a judge would have to ask us questions to even grant a PPO this time around. And I think I'm not poking a bear if they deny it. I'm. I'm gonna sit low and try to get more evidence of him following me and reapply.

Samantha Stietz (28:42)

And so that's what I do. And that was in July.

Samantha Stietz (28:47)

And I stopped seeing him places after this. I see him at soccer but nowhere else, which is weird. Because I had been seeing him multiple times per week at this point. And I think, okay, well, what maybe this was, was just a coincidence. And then October 7th, I have one roommate, and she left for work super early. She started a new job at a hospital. And so she had to leave by like 6:30, which was before I was even up in the morning. So there was like 45 minutes between when she left and when I woke up. And I had asked her, please leave out the front door because you can lock it from the outside. The back door is like a sliding door that you can't lock from the outside. On this particular day, she went out the backslider door and did not lock it.

Samantha Stietz (29:33)

And not that I think it would have mattered.

Samantha Stietz (29:37)

I. I sleep. I slept, like, with my door a crack so that my cat and dog kind of come in and out as they pleased. And I heard. I'm a very light sleeper. I heard a squeak in my floorboard outside my room that I knew wasn't a pet. And it woke me up. It was enough to wake me up. And as I looked outside the door, I could see, like, a shadow that wasn't normally there.

Samantha Stietz (30:07)

And I call out my roommate's name, thinking, well, I don't know, maybe, like, what? I don't know what she'd be doing standing outside my door. Nothing. Nothing. And I'm like, I grow more and more convinced as I start waking up more my eyes adjust that there is somebody outside my door. And I think if there's somebody outside my bedroom door right now, if they're robbing me, they would be robbing me. They wouldn't be standing outside my bedroom door. If somebody's outside my door, they want me. And so I'm like, did I just have a nightmare? Like, maybe. Maybe it's really nothing. But I'm like, pretty positive there's somebody on the other side of my door. And I think, like, okay, I have this hatchet under my bed. I'm still wrapped up in all of my blankets in bed in the dark. And I think, well, do I grab this hatchet? And I was like, well, I don't know if they have a weapon. Like, if they don't. Now I'm introducing one. Like, yeah, you know, this person's potentially more prepared. I don't know. This isn't me coming out to, like, you know, ward off a burglar. This is me, like, waiting to face somebody who's potentially coming after me. And do I. How confident do I feel about this weapon?

Samantha Stietz (31:26)

And I choose to Turn on the light and figure out what's going on. And as I turn to my left, I hear the door open, and somebody jumps on top of me, and I begin screaming, and they put their hands around my neck and choke me. And I. It's Christopher. And I think, of course. Of course it's you. Like, of all people. And part of me is, like, relieved because I think, well, at least I know this person, at least. But I think. I think he's going to kill me, right?

Samantha Stietz (32:01)

Or rate me, or both.

Samantha Stietz (32:04)

And he's like, your roommates left. I'm screaming, I'm screaming. I'm screaming.

Samantha Stietz (32:11)

And I. He's putting more and more pressure on my neck, and I think, well, is he actually going to, like, kill me, or am I going to stop breathing? Or, like, what's the next step here? And so I just decide to kind of go limp and hold my breath and just see what he does and thinking I can grab my weapon and maybe defend myself. So I'm, like, gathering my breath. He's reached to the bag at his feet, and he's been. He's, like, binding my hands and feet with handcuffs. So I have no, Like, I'm. I have no chance. I'm like, if you want to rape me, just do it. Like, if that's. If that's what your intent is, you got me. Like, I. I don't know what your intent. He's like, I just want to talk. And I'm like, if you just want to talk to somebody, you don't break into their house and choke them and put them in cuffs. That's not how that works. You've had years, every week, to confront me and try to talk to me. This isn't what this is about. He puts this, like, ball gag in my mouth that has all these leather straps, and he gorilla tapes, like, duct tapes my whole. It around my whole head and mouth and hair. And he carries me out of my house, and I'm like, I'm going to die. Like, I think, like, you see those films of, like, whether they're true or not. Like, people getting carried from one location to another, and their chances of survival go way down. I think, okay, well, I'm leaving my house in this condition. He's going to kill me. Like, this is the last I'm going to see of my pets, my house, anything.

Julian Morgans (33:50)

Were you feeling panicked? What was your emotional state as this was happening?

Samantha Stietz (33:54)

Oh, definitely, yeah. Panic.

Samantha Stietz (33:58)

I mean, I realized quickly that the only way out, because I clearly couldn't run my hands and feet were cuffed. I couldn't scream for help unless somebody saw us or I had some opportunity to run or fight. I was just kind of at his mercy. And I thought, okay, well, I know this person, but I don't know what he wants with me. And he puts me in my car and he blindfolds me eventually and takes me. It ends up being just down the road. He gets lost and drives in circles. He goes down the road and I'm trying to, like, look through the blindfold to see where I am. And I see he's opening this garage door. And then he, like, picks me up and takes me in and puts me on this, like, it's a bed. And he takes the blindfold and cuffs and things off. And I'm in this, like, seven by seven soundproof room on a twin bed.

Samantha Stietz (34:59)

And I'm just like.

Samantha Stietz (35:02)

Like, this is not good. Like, the only way out of this is, like, convincing him to let me go.

Samantha Stietz (35:10)

And I'm like, okay, I'm a social worker. Like, if this is my only way out of this, I can deal with this person. I've been a therapist. I know this person. At least I know some of his background. That's at least something. Like, if I can keep my cool and figure out how to get out of this, I mean, that's my only chance. Unless I magically can get a key or hurt him with something. But in my current state, I'm pretty stuck. There's like, I'm handcuffed to a wall.

Julian Morgans (35:41)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (35:42)

So pretty grim.

Samantha Stietz (35:45)

He reveals to me that he took two weeks off work and that we're going to be spending two weeks together in this soundproof 7x7 bunker.

Samantha Stietz (35:56)

So it's like, it's small.

Samantha Stietz (36:00)

Think a tiny windowless bathroom. That's very small.

Julian Morgans (36:05)

Can I. Can I ask some questions about this space? Yeah, I understand. I understand that he built this thing. Is that right?

Samantha Stietz (36:13)

Yeah. I start inquiring with him, like, do you live here? Like, where am I? Like, I couldn't tell if I was at a house or what this structure was like. I mean, I can touch the roof. I'm like five, three. I'm really short, so I, like, it's maybe six feet tall, just over six feet tall, but it's like hard plastic. There's multiple layers. He tells me there's sandbags on the outside. He tells me how thick the walls are. They're insulated.

Samantha Stietz (36:48)

Like, there's. There's rings on the wall to, like, hook handcuffs to, like, a sex dungeon.

Julian Morgans (36:55)

Oh, God.

Samantha Stietz (36:56)

And there's food, first aid supplies, water, a bucket with like a toilet lid to use as a bathroom.

Samantha Stietz (37:09)

And I'm okay. Christopher, what are we gonna do for two weeks? Like, you want to talk to me? I am all ears. I got nowhere to be. Apparently he, like, takes my phone. He makes me send a message to my boss telling her I'm very sick and can't call her. And yeah, I feel silly that I was kidnapped by somebody so stupid, but he can't figure out how to turn the location off on my iPhone. He's like, I, I don't have an Apple product. I don't know how to, like, find the location. I was like, thinking like, he's a Samsung guy. Yeah. I'm like, if you were going to kidnap somebody, wouldn't you look that up at least? Like, if I. But I'm like, well, if I don't. If I don't eventually show him how to do it, is he gonna hit me? Is he gonna strap me to the wall? Is he gonna take my mouth shut again? Like, I don't know. So I like, push and see what resistance? Like, oh, that's a good question. I don't know, like, probably undersetting somewhere. Like, I'm not telling you. And he like, nope, you're gonna show me. So my response is kind of self preservation and knowing that this person has an interest in me being alive, it seems. And it doesn't take me long to figure out that he is still stuck on me in some way. Like, he has romantic feelings for me that clearly have never been reciprocated and that's been communicated.

Julian Morgans (38:36)

What does he tell you?

Samantha Stietz (38:37)

He says he's loved me since he first saw me. I was like, that's not really what love is, but.

Samantha Stietz (38:44)

That he just never got closure all those years ago. And, you know, he. Through this 13 hour interaction I have with him in this bunker, he's, you know, I would marry you if you would say yes, but I know you won't. Like, he knows that I have no interest in him. But his only way he. He thought to speak with me and get me to talk to him was by forcibly kidnapping me.

Julian Morgans (39:16)

Hey, we're gonna take a quick ad break, but stick around because we'll be back with more what it was.

Samantha Stietz (39:21)

Like.

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Samantha Stietz (41:13)

And so I basically talk with him this whole day and I try to find these little openings of like, what motivates him? Like, if you have a client that has a drinking problem that wants to stop drinking, you know what motivates you? Is it being able to spend more time with your kids. Is it, is it, you know, the feeling of numbness, like, what, why are you, you know, doing this? And I find, you know, he wants to be friends with me. He wants a romantic relationship or a friendship or something with me. I found out he's really scared of going to prison. And I think, well, you've already made some grave errors if that's your fear.

Julian Morgans (41:54)

Seriously.

Samantha Stietz (41:54)

And so I think, well, maybe there's a way that I can sell that he can have everything. He could be my friend and maybe he doesn't have to get in trouble for this. Maybe this could be forgotten. Because now I realize too, I'm working against the clock. Like once people I worked from home so not Showing up to work, people wouldn't necessarily notice that besides my boss, who he texted.

Samantha Stietz (42:22)

You know, people wouldn't realize until I didn't come home that night that I was missing. You know, that would be very out of character for me. Obviously, if people were to report me missing, he would be the first person people would think about. And I think the stakes are going to go way up if people start looking for me. His. Our photos get posted on the news. You know, I'm thinking ahead, like, what happens 36 hours into this? What happens at that period of time?

Samantha Stietz (42:55)

You know, what's his game plan out of this? He doesn't. He doesn't have a game plan. What do we do at the end of these two weeks, Christopher? He has no answer.

Samantha Stietz (43:05)

And so I think his only way out of this is killing me.

Samantha Stietz (43:10)

Or giving himself up. So.

Julian Morgans (43:12)

Right, okay.

Samantha Stietz (43:14)

So I think we've got to move quickly and come up with some sort of solution. Otherwise, things are going to escalate and people aren't going to make good decisions. I'm not going to be able to keep my cool engaging with this person for that long. And I don't like where this is headed. So I'm trying to convince him maybe there's a way out of all of this, because if people know that I'm missing, this is going to be a problem for both of us.

Julian Morgans (43:40)

What did he say to that?

Samantha Stietz (43:42)

And he. I think he saw my point, but he wasn't willing really to budge. He's like, no, I'm. We're gonna spend two weeks together.

Samantha Stietz (43:50)

You know, okay, well, what are we gonna do for two weeks? Like, after three hours, we've run out of a conversation. Like, are we gonna play cards? Are we gonna. How are we gonna shower? You can't keep me here. This isn't practical.

Julian Morgans (44:03)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (44:04)

And also terrifying.

Julian Morgans (44:07)

Yeah. And on the downside, it's also terrifying. Did he respond positively to. To this?

Samantha Stietz (44:15)

He could take little bits at a time of, like, he had a hard time buying. Like, why would I trust you that you're not gonna tell the police about this? Like, I was like, okay, what you did was really wrong. But what. What do I get out of it by going to the police? Why do I want to spend my time doing that? Like, there's no nothing in it for me. Clearly, there's a misunderstanding here. You think I hate you. You. And I think you're trying to hurt me. And clearly you're not trying to hurt me. You just care about me. And it's like, obviously, if Somebody cares about you. That's clearly not somebody's actions, but that's what I'm telling him. Cuz in his mind, he thinks I care about this person. So through the day I kind of get him to be open enough to this idea that if you let me go, we could be friends. You don't have to get in trouble for this necessarily, but you're gonna have to let me go. And he, he won't do it though, is the thing is he, he's like, I just don't feel like I can trust you. I feel like the only way I could trust you is if we slept together. And I was like, I don't sleep with my friends. I don't know what you do, but like someone I'm friends with, I don't have sex with. I'm in a relationship with somebody. And you know this now. And I've told you I have no romantic interest in you and I don't want to do that. So. No.

Samantha Stietz (45:46)

And he's like, well, I don't. I just don't know. I feel like if, if we did that, I could trust you. And I'm like, this was his whole plan all along. Even if I resist, he never lets me go. There's nothing that would stop him from chaining me to this wall and doing that forcibly.

Julian Morgans (46:06)

Yeah, that's, that's what I'm hearing this thing about. I just want to talk. It sounds like it's. Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (46:13)

And that was very clear from the very beginning. When I, you know, when he first took me, that was my first thought, you know, if you want to rape me, go ahead and do it. And then being put into this bunker that has this bed and these metal rungs on the wall, like, no, thank you. I see where this is going.

Julian Morgans (46:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Samantha Stietz (46:36)

And I'm trying to do everything in my power to get out of this unscathed more than what I already am. And I just cannot convince him.

Samantha Stietz (46:47)

There's this moment where he, he leaves bunker for a while and I resolve it's like 6, 7pm Maybe.

Samantha Stietz (46:59)

And I resolve if he comes back and won't budge, I need to give in because it, if we get too late into the night, you know where he's getting. He's been awake for like 24 hours at this point and he's getting more agitated. And I'm thinking we're getting close to the point where my roommate would have expected me back. If I were out, I just wouldn't not come home. And so the way I have More power in the situation is if it gets me out of this and I don't have to be chained to a wall. Potentially that sounds a whole lot better than the alternative. It's kind of just choosing the least worst option.

Julian Morgans (47:43)

Wow. Your clarity of thought here about just like playing it out in your head, seeing where this goes and then trying to take the least worst option. I mean, it's. It's horrible. Like it's awful, but in its own way it's. It's really admirable. Like there is. There's a lot of bravery there.

Samantha Stietz (48:02)

Yeah, it. The whole thing really sucks.

Julian Morgans (48:06)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (48:07)

I mean, it just felt like the most mental exercise I've ever done in terms of like.

Julian Morgans (48:15)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (48:16)

This whole self narration of like, how do I get out of this? Am I gonna die? Like, keep yourself focused, Sam. Like, how do I use what I know? How do I talk this person into something and how do I keep my own. What I'm actually telling him. How do I keep all of that straight and keep my cool too? Because it's time different from what I'm thinking, obviously. Yeah.

Julian Morgans (48:39)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (48:40)

And it feels wrong because I'm essentially lying to him this whole day. Like, we can be friends. This. I. There's no way I'm ever going to be friends with this person.

Julian Morgans (48:53)

No.

Samantha Stietz (48:53)

And it feels wrong. I'm not somebody who lies to people I even don't like. But at the same time, there's no. I am between a rock and a hard place. And there's no other way I can get myself out of this as. Than to convince him to let me go.

Julian Morgans (49:09)

Can I ask, did the time move slowly? Were you sort of in that like, dilated time thing? You know, like in a fight or flight situation where it sort of stretches out?

Samantha Stietz (49:19)

Yeah, it felt very. I mean, 13 hours is a long time, but that's a long time. Like different weird segments of like this beginning part when I was first there and then this, like, I have this plan. How do I kind of make this happen? And I think honestly the worst part was waiting for him to actually follow through on his end of the promise to let me go. Because it wasn't like, okay, I slept with you now, so go ahead. It was. Well, it's not dark enough outside.

Samantha Stietz (49:55)

And I feel dirty. I'm terrified. I am agitated, I'm sweaty, I'm stinky, I feel gross. Just been violated by this disgusting man. And now I'm like, what if he doesn't hold up his end of the bargain? And I'm like, I'm Banking on the fact that his integrity is very important to him. And I shook him on this agreement. There's nothing that can make me. Make him follow through with it other than his own viewpoint of himself. You know, him thinking I'm an honest person. I agreed to this. You know, I made this agreement with this friend, this person I like and respect or whatever he thought of me. And now I need to follow through with what I promised. I was banking on that. That was important to him. And so that, like, hour or so between the act and agreement and him actually letting me go could have been a whole day in itself. Like, I was like, I am gonna lose my. And throw punches at this man if. If he doesn't let me out soon. And so I was just, like, trying to be patient. And it just.

Julian Morgans (51:10)

I mean, I. Like, I. I apologize for asking, but. But can we. Can we just fill in the gap there where you were like, he leaves, you make this decision. And I'm just curious about how, like, how you pitch this. How do you tell him? All right, look, you know, how do you phrase a thing like that?

Samantha Stietz (51:26)

Well, we had kind of had this working agreement of, like, I will promise you I won't go to the police about you essentially kidnapping me this morning if you let me go. And that he wasn't. He needed more on his side of the agreement. And so it kind of became like a. That was the only other thing that would get him to agree to it was having sex with me. And I laid out the terms of the agreement, and I said, if I agree to have sex with you, you will let me go tonight. Like, before midnight. You will let me go back to my car, back to my home. That's literally what I said. And we stood up and shook hands. And then he said, well, I guess. I guess we take our clothes off now. Like, what? Yeah, it was. Yeah. Humiliating. It was humiliating.

Julian Morgans (52:32)

Yeah. I. I won't ask you to relive that. It sounds just, like, nightmarish. Just awful. And then. And then after you have this hour where he's, you know, like, what, just leaving you. Leaving you hanging, what was he doing in the hour afterwards?

Samantha Stietz (52:50)

We both just kind of sat at the edge of the bed. It's the only place to sit. We just kind of sat there. We didn't really say much.

Samantha Stietz (53:01)

But what.

Julian Morgans (53:01)

Was his body language in that moment?

Samantha Stietz (53:05)

I mean, I think he was kind of nervous because he thought, well, what. I mean, I'm just guessing, you know, he might be nervous. Like, is she gonna follow through? Is she not gonna go to the police. Or reflecting on his experience or. I don't know what he was thinking. Really have no idea.

Samantha Stietz (53:24)

But I was just like, I just need to, like, get out and get through this next hour and pull this off to. Or just get out of this place and get somewhere safe.

Samantha Stietz (53:35)

And I think if you've been sexually assaulted, I think a lot of people identify with that, like, dissociation, just feeling like you leave your body and mind and go to some other place and just kind of block everything out. I feel like a lot of it was like that last hour was like, do I even want to come back into my body after this whole experience? Like, is this even real? Like, what.

Julian Morgans (54:02)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (54:03)

What had just happened? And like, now I'm thinking like, okay, if he does let me go, then what do I do? He's told me he has trackers on my vehicles, which I couldn't find. Nobody could find a mechanic, couldn't find the police. Took multiple attempts to find.

Samantha Stietz (54:19)

And so I'm like, well, I can't just get in my car and drive to the police or go to the hospital for a sane exam. And I'm thinking, okay, well, now I've been assaulted and now the clock is two ticking. I know I'm not supposed to pee or drink fluids or do all this stuff. And the longer I wait, the more I'm worried about the evidence getting harder to find if I have a physical exam. So I'm thinking about all these things of like, I need to get out of here.

Julian Morgans (54:46)

Yeah. So what. How did this finally end?

Samantha Stietz (54:49)

He finally decided it was dark enough outside for us to leave. And he. I finally saw the bunker from the outside. Call it the bunker that he held me in. It's like this two doored. We finally went outside both doors and I saw the sandbags. I saw he had, like, modified two of these storage unit stalls. He took the dividing wall out entirely, and he had his car on the other side. I was like, can I sit in the front seat this time? And he's like, yeah. So we get in his car and we drive. He had parked my car at, like, a home improvement store down the road. And he took me there to my car. And I was like, I kind of didn't think I'd ever see. I mean, it wasn't. It was dark, so it wasn't daylight. But I was like, I see the stars. Like, I thought I was going to die, like. And I got back in my car and said goodbye to him. Like, we hugged. Like, I was Like, I got to sell this.

Momentous Supplement Advertiser (55:51)

This.

Samantha Stietz (55:51)

That this is going to be fine. Otherwise, I don't want him to follow me.

Julian Morgans (55:55)

God.

Samantha Stietz (55:56)

I get in my car and I drive home like I said I was going to, and I lock myself in my bathroom, and I call my neighbor that I work with. She lives. Lived just a few doors down, and she's a nurse. And so I'm thinking, like, I obviously can't drive anywhere. Who do I know who can get me quickly and get me to a hospital because I need this exam? So I call my neighbor Melissa, and she picks up, and she, like, thinks I've maybe fallen off a ladder or something. Like, I was doing something to my house and fell off a ladder, hurt myself. And I was like, can you please. Are you home? Can you take me to the hospital? And I was like, can you stay on the phone with me until you. Can you park in my neighbor's driveway and stay on the phone with me until you get there? She's like, yeah. And she's like, okay, I'm here. And I, like, run out of my house, and I, like, jump the fence into my neighbor's yard and run to her car. And I just, like. It's like when you, like, beat a video game, and you're like, oh, my God. You're, like, relieved. Like, I've done the thing. Like, I was like. I was finally, like, I think I just. I think I'm going to live. Like, it wasn't really until I saw her that I was like, guess what happened to me today? Like, and she was just, like, flabbergasted.

Samantha Stietz (57:22)

And so I have the SANE exam at the hospital, and I'm just, like, terrified, like, thinking he's going to come into the hospital.

Julian Morgans (57:31)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Samantha Stietz (57:33)

And Melissa stays through the night, and I don't. I finally meet with a detective at, like, 3am so I'm at the hospital for, like, another 12 hours. I don't get any food. Like, starving. I have. It was just. The whole thing was awful.

Julian Morgans (57:51)

Yeah. I mean, do you know what Christopher was doing in these hours?

Samantha Stietz (57:56)

To my knowledge, he believed me. And he went home and went to bed.

Julian Morgans (58:01)

That's bizarre behavior.

Samantha Stietz (58:03)

Yeah, well, I mean, I felt kind of good about myself. He was like, if he believed me enough to, like, go to bed and feel like he could stay at his own house, then I guess I was convincing.

Julian Morgans (58:16)

You put on some masterful acting.

Samantha Stietz (58:19)

They arrested him. He was, like, leaving his house to go get takeout or something the next day. And they had narrowed down what his vehicle Looked like. And it was, like, one of the first streets they drove down. Because I was like, I suspect he lives in this neighborhood.

Samantha Stietz (58:40)

And they're like, this is too easy. Like, there's no way this could be his car. And they, like, ran the plate, and they're like, oh, my gosh, this is him. Like, this is where he lives. So he's like, well, do we. We can't just go busting in. We don't know if he has weapons. It was a whole, like, things. They did this, like, really intense traffic stop with, like, swat because he had told me he would rather die or get shot by the police than go to prison. So I was like, you should probably tell your team that he may. If he thinks he's gonna get arrested, just try to get you to shoot him.

Samantha Stietz (59:15)

Which he didn't, for whatever reason.

Julian Morgans (59:17)

All right, so for the weeks and the months after for you, what was your life like?

Samantha Stietz (59:25)

The first few weeks were very much a blur to this day. Like, my friend Robin spent that first kind of week. Ish. With me maybe. And I can tell you some things we did during that time. I couldn't tell you the order. I. I have no idea. I essentially could have been blackout drunk. Like, I am. Like, I kind of remember, like, we carved pumpkins. Like, we covered up my boat. It just. It was such a blur. I think I was just in shock for so long.

Julian Morgans (59:59)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (60:00)

And I was just terrified. Like, I was terrified to be alone. I knew there were, like, my roommate and my friend were in my house, but anytime I heard, like, a creak of a floorboard or anything that reminded me of other people, I was, like, very tense. I couldn't sleep.

Samantha Stietz (60:18)

It was. It was bad.

Julian Morgans (60:21)

Yeah.

Samantha Stietz (60:22)

Which understandably. So going through something like that.

Julian Morgans (60:26)

Yeah. How did your friends and family respond?

Samantha Stietz (60:31)

A lot of them were really supportive, but there were some that I, like, told about this, and, like, some of them literally were, like, never responded.

Julian Morgans (60:42)

Really?

Samantha Stietz (60:42)

Yeah. I think there's. You know, what do you do when you hear something like that? Like, there's not a lot you can say, but there's a lot of things you don't say. Yeah. Of, like, people.

Julian Morgans (60:53)

Do people say things that you shouldn't say?

Samantha Stietz (60:57)

I mean, they have. There were people that said some obviously very wrong things that were like, this is not the time to question why I didn't send you a Christmas card last year. Like, this is not the time to question, like, why we haven't talked in three months. Like, yeah, that happened. But more so, like, there were a lot of people that were like, if there's anything I can do to help, please let me know. And then I'd be like, and my friends were like, please tell people like if they're offering to do something, like give them something to do that will be helpful, like make it easier for yourself. So I'd be like, okay, well there's like this task or this thing. And then they'd be like oh no, I can't do that, sorry, sorry, I'm really busy. They wouldn't. Yeah. And then they wouldn't be like no, but I can do this for you. Or like, like it was just kind of like okay, well why would you offer then? Like. And it wasn't hard things. So.

Julian Morgans (61:55)

Yeah. And how, how are you doing these days?

Samantha Stietz (61:59)

Good, I would say. I return back. I started work like part time.

Samantha Stietz (62:06)

Go to therapy regularly.

Samantha Stietz (62:09)

I did exposure therapy for ptsd. I had a lot of issues around sleeping. I was really terrified and avoidant of like bedtime types of things. Like how my door was at night, sleeping in bed, having the lights off, those types of things. So I would like lay in bed before bedtime and, and have my door wide open at first and then I would gradually close it more and more each day. And then I'd get to the point where I could sleep with my door closed but not locked and then you know, and so on.

Samantha Stietz (62:48)

Because otherwise I would be sleeping to this day, likely with a gun under my pillow and my door triple bolted and terrified. So like that's not practical.

Julian Morgans (63:01)

Not practical, but understandable.

Samantha Stietz (63:03)

Yeah. So what it kind of looks like though is a lot of like talking through the actual traumatic event so that it's less frightening to you as you speak it. Like I still, when I talk about it like I'm going to have sweat stains under my arm. Arms. I guarantee you. Like, like even doing this interview at 7pm Like I'll be okay. But that in the past didn't used to be that way. Like talking about the story was scary.

Julian Morgans (63:28)

I mean something I'm wondering about is like why, why tell your story? You know, you've been very generous with your time. You've walked me through this just God awful story. But like why do that.

Samantha Stietz (63:40)

To me? I think. Well, there's multiple reasons. For one, I think social work is sort of one of those professions that you become a social worker because you're a certain type of person, but social work also makes you a certain type of person and that like yeah, people that are drawn to helping others in doing the right thing and that sort of thing are often drawn to social work. But social work is also a profession that's very focused on, like.

Samantha Stietz (64:12)

Social justice and bettering the world. And I feel like that's something.

Samantha Stietz (64:19)

That relates to me. But more so, I have this really unique experience of living through something like this and having my attacker behind bars for life that not many people get the luxury of, that there are so many people that are abducted or kidnapped or go through these types of experiences that don't live to tell about it.

Samantha Stietz (64:47)

You know, to honor their stories and their families, I think is important and to, you know, spread awareness about stalking. And I feel like I have this really unique experience where I don't have to feel fear because my, you know, stalker is behind bars, that he's gonna show up because I spoke out on this podcast or whatever and, you know, is going to come after me. I don't have to worry for my life because of that. And that's not the case for the majority of folks who are stalked, which I think is a lot of why it's not talked about.

Julian Morgans (65:23)

So what advice would you offer to. To other people who find themselves getting stalked?

Samantha Stietz (65:30)

I. One thing I wish I would have done differently is even back when I was 19, 20, like, contacting the police, if nothing happened, nothing happened. Yeah, I'll never know. But making the report is safer than not making the report. Sure, most of the time.

Samantha Stietz (65:54)

And I mean, protective orders are great and helpful.

Samantha Stietz (66:01)

But also, you know, making sure friends, family, loved ones close to you, people that live in your building, you know, that sort of thing, are aware of who the person is and treat them as a threat.

Julian Morgans (66:13)

Yeah, good, good advice. And finally, I want to finish on. You've set up an organization called Beekeepers Advocacy. Can you tell me what you guys do?

Samantha Stietz (66:25)

Yeah, it was something me and my friend Robin started.

Samantha Stietz (66:30)

It's kind of evolving. We kind of set it up not knowing exactly what opportunities would come. But, I mean, I. I still get messages almost every day from people, like, sharing their own stories, but essentially it's like an advocacy platform for me to share my story, but to also bring awareness to stalking, sexual assault, and other, you know, related crimes.

Samantha Stietz (66:56)

I'm hoping to do more public speaking and other, you know, speaking engagements with law enforcement or police, general public social workers, folks that serve victims directly as well. But yeah, a lot of it is around just awareness and advocacy for better laws, better supports for survivors.

Julian Morgans (67:20)

Great, Fantastic. We'll put a link in the show notes as well.

Samantha Stietz (67:24)

Thanks.

Julian Morgans (67:24)

And Sam, this has been fascinating. Really, really awful, but fascinating. And I can't thank you enough.

Samantha Stietz (67:32)

Yeah, of course. Well, I appreciate having the opportunity to speak with you. I think you have some great questions and perspective too. And thanks, Julian.

Julian Morgans (67:42)

Hey, just a quick epilogue from me. As you heard, Christopher Thomas received life in prison. Now you can also support Samantha's advocacy work. Go and visit her website. It's Beekeepers and advocacy, all1word.org. That's beekeepers advocacy.org and the link is also in the show Notes now for subscribers. Our bonus episode this week is a true crime slash mystery that you might already be familiar with. We're looking at the death of Eliza Lamb, who was a 21 year old Canadian tourist and she was found in the water tank of a Los Angeles Hotel in 2013. Now the question is, was she murdered? Or was it an accident? Or was it a suicide? Or was it just something else entirely and much weirder? And I'm asking these questions to the hotel's manager, Amy Price, who first learned that something was wrong when guests complained about the hotel's tap water. This is a story that's become a favorite for Internet sleuths. And Amy walks us through the day that it happened and how it's shaped her life ever since. So if you're a subscriber, you can listen to that one right now. And if you're not, well, why not? Okay, thanks for listening. I'll see you all again next week.

Julian Morgans (68:58)

What It Was like is produced by Rachel Tuffery. This episode was edited by Ellie Dickey, who also does our research. Our cover art is by Rich Akers. Our theme music was produced by Jimmy Saunders. And this whole thing has been a super real production.

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