Floor Edwards (5:56)

Hi.

Julian Morgans (5:57)

Welcome to the show.

Floor Edwards (5:58)

Thank you. Nice to be here.

Julian Morgans (6:01)

So I want to start with your earliest years growing up in California. Can you give me a bit of a sense of those years? You know, what were your parents doing? Who are your parents? You know, just set the scene for me.

Floor Edwards (6:15)

Yeah. So my parents, my mom's from Sweden. My dad is from California, and they both met in the cult. After joining, five of my dad's siblings had joined, and he was the sixth. My mom had a bit of a different trajectory to get there, but, you know, it was the era of the hippie movement. I always say if you grew up in the 60s or 70s, you know that you could do one of two things. You join a cult or you join a band. And that's kind of my answer because people seem so shocked by it. But it's like that's why what people were doing at the time, they were rebelling against the system. The group was. They were not into birth control. You know, they believed the world was ending. So my family, my parents just started having children. But one thing I remember is we were constantly on the move. I don't have a childhood home. I just don't. I lived in, like, 24 different places by the time I was 12 years old. And we would live in campgrounds, we would live with relatives, But I just remember constantly being on the move. One big part of the cult was the disintegration of family. Like, instead of being loyal to family, they were all taught to be loyal to the leader, to an idea, to this movement and this goal. But, yeah, that's what I remember you.

Julian Morgans (7:38)

Said before, that you didn't really have a childhood home. So. So what did that actually look like? You just living on the street?

Floor Edwards (7:45)

So in California, we were like, in campgrounds a lot. So we would have. We had like trailers and campgrounds, and it was very. A community based living environment. So even though we didn't have much, we always had a community that we could rely on each other for. In California, we were smaller. It was more just our family. It was our relatives. When we moved to Thailand, we actually live in compounds. So we would live in a home. It was like, usually, I want to say between five to 10 bedrooms, it was a pretty big home. And there would be like 30 to 50 people living in a home at once. So that was kind of our living environment and how we survived.

Julian Morgans (8:29)

And I'm guessing you just sort of took this at face value. You know, you're a child. You don't have any other reference points. You're just like, oh, this is life. This is how people live. I guess my question is, were your memories from this early period happy ones?

Floor Edwards (8:46)

Yeah, they really were. But I think things got darker, you know, as you get older. You know, I think I was five or six when I started to realize, like, I was gonna die. And that became my entire. Honestly, the bane of my existence. I was always shocked that other children, like, even my sister, they weren't thinking about it. And I was like, you guys, we're gonna die. Like, it was so engulfing for me. It consumed me. And every. A lot of other people were just kind of like, oh, they just lived for this, like you. This utopia that was being kind of built. It was like, we're all going to heaven on this, this year, this date. And therefore, you know, everything's going to be great. And I was just thinking to myself, like, guys, we're gonna die.

Julian Morgans (9:36)

Yeah. All right, so tell me more about that. What was the prophecy?

Floor Edwards (9:40)

The apocalyptic prophecy? Yeah. So, I mean, it developed over time and again. It's a lot to kind of really break down. But basically, he started this in. In California, and it became this movement. Basically, it was just like this wildfire that started, spread throughout the United States, and they ended up owning a ranch in Texas. And he had, like, I want to say hundred, 100, if not hundreds of young hippies. These are, like, people in their late teens to early 20s. Just. Everyone's just wanting to, you know, rebel. They're all dropping out of school, they're dropping out of the army. This is during Vietnam War. And they just formed this, like, little utopia. And Father David started to realize this thing was becoming bigger than he could handle or imagined. And so at one point, he decided to go away and kind of like, speak to God, like, alone and kind of like Moses on Mount Sinai.

Julian Morgans (10:44)

Yeah, they always. They all do this.

Floor Edwards (10:45)

Yeah, it's that.

Julian Morgans (10:46)

That all the leaders.

Floor Edwards (10:47)

Yeah, that alone time. And so all this. Some. Some of what I'm telling you is memory. Some of it is. Is. Was research. So I learned this later. I didn't know growing up that this is happened. But he went alone to talk to God. He's like, shoot, I have this big, giant group of people following me. Where do I lead them? Basically, I'm sorry. Sometimes I laugh because when I. When I. When I articulate it, it's just. It's funny.

Julian Morgans (11:15)

So, no, I think. I think laugh. If you don't. If you don't laugh, you cry and, you know.

Floor Edwards (11:19)

Well, I've told this story so many times, and, like, I've. I don't think about it. I'm not, like, traumatized by it, I don't think. But, like, sometimes when I tell it all over again, I'm just like, well, this is really bizarre.

Julian Morgans (11:31)

Yeah, well, it is. We can. We can agree on that.

Floor Edwards (11:35)

It's dark and twisted and light and funny because I know that's what you. I saw on your podcast. That's what you.

Julian Morgans (11:40)

Yeah, yeah.

Floor Edwards (11:41)

Stories that you tell.

Julian Morgans (11:42)

Yeah, that's right. Well, well noticed.

Floor Edwards (11:45)

So anyways, he went, I guess, to. We don't know where. I don't always know where he was because we never knew. And he went to speak to God and kind of just pray, I guess, really, like, pray. And again, God spoke to him just like he did and said, you know, that the world was going to end and get everyone out of the United States, because the United States was. He called it the. Literally, he was like. The United States was like this evil Babylonian, you know, empire that was going to be the first one to burn in hell during, you know, the apocalypse or Armageddon. You know, in the Bible, we got news that we all had to basically flee the United States. This happened very quickly. And we were on a plane. I was four years old and we were on a plane to go to Thailand. So he basically, at this point, we have hundreds, maybe thousands members in the United States, and they're all producing children. So now he has this big group of people that used to just be a bunch of young hippies that had now have all these children. And he's like, okay, let's get them out of the States and into third world countries where we can warn them about the end of the world. And so that's how I ended up in Thailand.

Julian Morgans (12:55)

Okay. So there's a bit of strategy to it as well. Also. That's a. That's a hell of a way to build a congregation, is to just get all your members to have sex with each other.

Floor Edwards (13:04)

Yeah, in the beginning, it wasn't like that. It kind of evolved over time. In the beginning, it was, like, very celibate, no drugs, no alcohol. They were very. Just dedicated to God. And I think. I mean, I don't know all the details, but I did find out later he was actually. He was Older man, he was kind of impotent, and he just. He had a lot of conflict sexually, maybe some trauma, I'm not sure. But he wanted to kind of bring together his religious devotion with his, like, sexual kind of maybe demons or, you know, impulses. And he thought, hey, let's. Let's make them one and, you know, follow his calling to be, you know, a pastor, a minister, a prophet for God and also indulge in his, like, sexual impulses.

Julian Morgans (13:55)

Yeah, yeah, we'll come back to the. The sex stuff, because I know there's a fair bit there, but. But for the moment, so I just want to understand this prophecy of an apocalypse a bit better. So he. He gave a specific date. Right. Father David was like, I think it was in 1993. The world's going to end.

Floor Edwards (14:13)

Yep. There wasn't a day date, but it was the year of 93. So I was born in 81, but I just remember there was news, and I was four years old. We all had to get out of the United States. I think it took me some time, but I remember by five or six years old, I knew what he was telling us. And he produced volumes, thousands and thousands of books of literature, all of it basically catering to his. His belief that, you know, the world was ending. And all his teachings and all his philosophy and prophecies and stories and everything was. Was all leading up to this. This apocalypse that was going to come in 1993, which was the year he died. Yeah, that.

Julian Morgans (15:05)

So, I mean, that's. That's crazy in itself that it turns out he wasn't prophesizing the end of the world so much as his own end date. But for the moment, you're a kid and you get told the world's going to end and you're going to be dead at the age of 12. And this was devastating for you. You know, just. Just give me a bit more detail. I understand you were thinking about this at night. It was just always on your mind.

Floor Edwards (15:32)

Yeah. I mean, it again, developed over time. It was like I kind of started to understand that I was never going to live to be an adult. You know, we were supposed to die at the age of 12. And the picture that he painted for us was, you know, we were basically going to be martyrs for God. So I would stay awake at night just in my head, just thinking of all the possible ways to be a martyr for God. But, yeah, I would sit there just thinking very deeply about moment of death, basically.

Julian Morgans (16:07)

What would you imagine? What sort of scenarios would come to you so there.

Floor Edwards (16:12)

There were raids that happened, but the picture that was painted was, like, in the middle of the night, people were going to break into our house, basically, like men in military uniforms and, you know, basically gun us down and shoot us if we didn't, like, leave or flee. And so I would just. I would literally sit and think about my physical body and what would be the quickest way that they could just be done. So I would. I would pray that, you know, I would get shot in the place that would make me just die quickest, basically. I know that's very. That's very morbid and kind of dark, but that's. That's what I would do as a child. I would sit there and, like, plead to God, like, don't make it painful. Because we would hear stories too, about, you know, the Bible and these, like, these martyrs that died, you know, for God and these really, like, torturous deaths. And I would. I would. I was terrified of being tortured. I'm just remembering this now, but I was terrified of. Of just an agonizingly long, painful, torturous death. And, yeah, I would sit there and think about it for hours and hours at night.

Julian Morgans (17:23)

I mean, that's. That's a really heavy thing for a child to be thinking about. Yeah, to be laying awake at night thinking about. I hope it's a quick death and I get shot in the head. That's. That's something I wouldn't want my daughter to be thinking about. I mean, did you. Did you seek any help? What sort of. What sort of love and support was available to you at that time?

Floor Edwards (17:46)

That's. That's a good question. You know, I think when you're in that type of controlled environment, you're not allowed to question things. That was. That's one thing. I think that's a bit of a shock. Like, how could you not reach out and, like, ask someone? Like, it was, like, blasphemous to question anything to. To put any type of curtain over whatever the leader was telling us. But I do remember at one point my. My nighttime, basically, terror did become a bit of a concern. I remember my. We weren't so much of a family unit anymore. But at one point they could tell I was just. I was. I was crying like, well into the night. I just. I couldn't control it sometimes. And so my dad would come in and just talk to me and. And kind of just tell me, like, there was nothing to be afraid of. I never told anyone what I was scared of. I was just crying and Crying and crying. In fact, my twin sister, who I was closest to, didn't, didn't even know this whole time. It was, it was just something that I, I had to kind of keep, you know, keep inside. And the fear of death was not even an option. Like if I even said something, I think they would have been like, what's wrong with you? They probably would have. There was a lot of discipline that went on and so we knew if we did something that was not kind of in line with the leader, we were going to be punished, humiliated. It was going to be a whole different scenario, scenarios. So I just learned to just shut up and, and, and kind of keep to myself.

Julian Morgans (19:16)

Okay, let's talk about what your day to day life looked like. So, so at the point where the family got moved to Thailand, I understand you were living in a bit of a compound with a whole bunch of other cult members. When you're in that environment, what does an average day look like for you?

Floor Edwards (19:33)

Yeah, they're very structured. So we would have a schedule on the wall our every single hour. Basically almost every minute of the day was, was accounted for, watched. It was wake up at this time, breakfast at this time. It was very organized. They could not have a group living like that under those circumstances and have it just be chaos. And plus Father David kind of painted this picture that we were an army preparing for the end of the world. So he kind of ran it like an army. So like, for example, our beds had to be made and everything was spotless, everything was very clean. So usually in the morning there would be, you know, chores. We would sit and listen to, you know, we, what we called word time or teachings from Father David. We had minimal schooling, but that kind of developed as we went along and they learned like, oh, we need to, you know, teach these kids something or else it's going to, you know, be a, a red flag for other people who saw us living in these, you know, countries with all these foreigners, you know. So our days were very structured from the time we got up until the time we went to bed.

Julian Morgans (20:46)

Hey, this bit of music means it's time for an ad break. But please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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Julian Morgans (24:10)

And we touched on this before, but it sounds, just reading your book, like sexual freedom, you know, that I don't know what. The hippie sexual freedom movement had had a pretty clear impact on this group. So it was not unusual to see adults of the group just having sex at any time in any place. Talk to me a little bit about that.

Floor Edwards (24:33)

I mean it wasn't, it wasn't so in your face that it was like we were sitting there being forced to watch, but it was just there in the background. Like I would hear it, we would see it. It was just this, this normalcy that we learned to kind of be okay with, you know, and again, all of us were impacted in so many different ways. Like I had an older sister that terrified her. I thought, honestly, like I was a kid, but I was just like, you would laugh it up like, oh my God, this is really funny because these adults were very, very much encouraged to just, you know, have a lot of sex. And that was not traumatizing for me. For her, that was traumatizing. Whereas this death idea was traumatizing. So I think there was a wide plethora of traumatic, you know, catalysts that anyone could take. So yeah, it was, it was kind of like a buffet, a buffet of trauma to these young kids. And you know, you, you pick what you, what's going to, what's going to impact you most. So I mean, I'm sure it's impacted me later. That's like a different story. But as a child, I just remember sometimes being amused by it sounds, being a little disgusted like, you know, but I didn't, never did. I think this isn't normal. It was just like it was around a lot.

Julian Morgans (25:52)

Yeah. Okay. And, and your leader, Father David kind of framed it as this sort of generosity thing. Right. Like, like adults should share their bodies and their wives and their husbands with each other. And, and, and that's just part of God's plan.

Floor Edwards (26:06)

Yeah. It started out as the philosophy behind it was that sex was not supposed to be this dirty, you know, non religious or spiritual thing. So on top of sex being, you know, this, this, this pure thing that everyone should just engage in the. They were also creating armies, so there was no birth control. And so those were kind of like the two beliefs behind his, his philosophy on sex.

Julian Morgans (26:37)

Yeah. And it seems to me that there was a few interesting little offshoots from this particular idiom. And the, and the first is that it was a kind of a recruitment tool Sex was used as a recruitment tool. Can you talk to me about that?

Floor Edwards (26:52)

Yeah. So that was in the early days before actually before I was born. But, yeah, he thought that the women should use sex, basically use their bodies as part of. He called it bait. It was their way to go out and kind of sell themselves and show men God's love and. And get money for it. You know, it was kind of. The money was sort of a. Aside part of it, but essentially they were prostituting themselves, you know, for God. So everything was justified because everything, Everything was done in the name of God. You know, the punishment, the. The sex, the. The prostitution, you know, the, the death, the apocalypse. Everything was like, okay, if it's in the name of God, it's fine. So that was one teaching that really kind of put the group on the map as needing to kind of hide because he. He knew that his teachings were very radical. So that's kind of when he started to hide and kind of go off the grid.

Julian Morgans (27:53)

Yeah, and. And it seems to me that the other thing, the other flow and effect from all this sex is that a lot of the women in the group were constantly pregnant, including your mum. So you've got what, nine siblings?

Floor Edwards (28:07)

12.

Julian Morgans (28:08)

12.

Floor Edwards (28:09)

Sorry, 12. Well, there's 12 altogether.

Julian Morgans (28:12)

Okay. So what are your memories of your. Of your mom just being pregnant all the time?

Floor Edwards (28:18)

Yeah, she was always pregnant. It was hot in Thailand. I remember that it was. She would constantly be having these cravings. Every year she would bring home a new baby. And I remember we were, you know, obviously supposed to be excited and, you know, I was excited to meet this new baby, but it was like they would immediately go into a nursery and then my mom would get pregnant again. And we were also responsible often for either taking care of young kids or helping, whether it's, you know, through those. The chores or. So we're very much a big part of the home making, the caretaking, and so it was a burden. And yeah, my mom was just always pregnant, bringing home a baby basically every year.

Julian Morgans (29:05)

And did she seem like a happy and willing mother?

Floor Edwards (29:10)

I think she was happy as long as it was she was serving God. She felt very much like she was fulfilling God's work, and that made her happy. There was always a sense of feeling like second place, and there was always this feeling of, like, Father David's goals and prophecies and whatever he said, that was their number one priority beyond everything.

Julian Morgans (29:33)

You started to talk before about how the group recognized that some of their beliefs, some of their activities were pretty antisocial. And that they'd sort of hide certain stuff. And I. And I understand you guys used to train for raids. You used to talk to me about that.

Floor Edwards (29:51)

I like that you call it antisocial. I never heard anyone say that before. It was antisocial. I always say alternative or, you know, illegal, but antisocial work. Illegal. Antisocial in the sense that what we were doing would look so bizarre to anyone watching. And so, you know, we did live in these compounds with high walls. Like, every home had to have walls 8 to 10ft high. I remember this end. There was barbed wire at the top, partly for safety. And we were in third World countries, but, you know, we just had this routine that you could tell was not. I felt like we were always under watch. We knew that we were being watched, whether we actually were or whether Father David was telling us, like, everyone, be careful. You know, he called it the Antichrist. But, like, the authorities could come get us at any time. And there were raids that happened. I was. I was in one, kind of in some homes, like, in Argentina, I know for sure, in South America, they had these big, giant homes that were about 300 people living together in these kind of, like. They called them combos. So they weren't just houses. It was, like, almost like a little, like, neighborhood. But it was still very, very inclusive. It was just like this was. This was a home. And sometimes parents would separate, and then the parent who left would call the authorities, or they'd say, something's going on there. You know, they would come to their, you know, senses about it. So they would call the authorities, and they would come and raid the homes. They would take the kids away. So we were very aware of that. And they would have, like, mock raids where they would pretend, like, okay, you know, if someone were to come, you know, what would we do? Al. And also raids for the. The possible. The martyr scenes. I. I talked about where we would, like, dress up and, you know, these adults would come in dressed in black with, like, fake guns, and we would have to, like, hide or, you know, or we would pretend like we were dying anyways. But, yeah, we would have these, like, fake raids to. To prepare ourselves, like, what to do if. If something like this happened.

Julian Morgans (32:06)

And. And you guys practiced. They. They kind of rehearsed what would happen if the police questioned you. Right? Like, you were given certain lines. Can you walk me through that?

Floor Edwards (32:18)

I remember very specifically, they would. They would, like, drill us. And they're like, if someone asks you, what's. Are you in a sect? They use the Word sect instead of cult, which, you know, they're kind of interchangeable. And they were like, okay, so we would be a drilling, okay, are you in a sect? And we were taught to answer, what's a sect? So it was like we would boomerang the question back to them. And I remember that that was definitely a moment of like, why are we hiding this? Why can't I know what a sect is? Essentially, are we. This thing that you're telling me kind of, I'm not, but teaching me how to avoid the question, basically. And there were other things, you know, we were taught to, you know, just as far as, like, discipline and, you know, the sexual freedoms. We kind of learned how to hide it or just pretend like we didn't know. I think amongst us kids, it was kind of being more naive was more beneficial to. To any scenarios, you know, that could come up.

Julian Morgans (33:21)

Yeah, yeah. At what stage in your childhood did you start to feel a little more critical or think a little bit more critical about what was happening around you?

Floor Edwards (33:32)

That's a good question. I think that just kind of came with age. And honestly, the leader would. The picture he painted for us was very minimal. These little details. I remember, like, he talked about two celebrities. The only ones I knew about growing up was Madonna and Michael Jackson. And they were both evil. Like, they were basically like the devil. And I just remember so that I was like, okay, there these evil, you know, musicians that are basically, you know, possessed by the devil. And then they would talk about little things like, so we had to be very strict in our dress code. And they would talk about jeans. Jeans were bad, you know, hairstyles. Like, if you wore your hair a certain way, men had to have, like, clean shaven, you know, short hair. A woman wouldn't wear makeup. But I remember there, as I started to get a little older, like, you know, start to hit my preteen years, I think a part of me started to wonder like, is this, is this really that evil? Like, are jeans, like, how could jeans be bad? But yeah, even to this day, it was like jeans. I mean, I love wearing jeans. I have a bunch of them. But this idea that jeans were like, I don't know, like sexual, but in a different way. And if we wore them, like, you know, that was it. You know, we were part of the system, which is what he called the outside world.

Julian Morgans (34:57)

Wow, this is so inconsistent. I think on the one hand you guys are in this cult practicing this highly liberalized form of sex, and then. And then on the other hand, this guy is demonizing every cornerstone of 80s aesthetic, including all the musicians. The best musicians of the era.

Floor Edwards (35:16)

Right.

Julian Morgans (35:17)

It seems. Seems like there's a bit of inconsistency there to me.

Floor Edwards (35:21)

Oh, I'm sure. I mean, I. I'm glad you brought that up. But you have to understand, for them, it was like anything that was in God's, you know, will that was justified. So Father David was just this mouthpiece. He was the mouthpiece. He decided. He interpreted everything. He literally would sit and just interpret the Bible, and he decided what was allowed and what wasn't. And, yes, very, very inconsistent. But as long as it went along with his, you know, trajectory, which was leading up to this end, you know, it was okay. And they just ate it up. I can't say I did. I. I definitely had questions, but I was not allowed to. To say anything.

Julian Morgans (36:03)

Yeah, let's. Let's pull it that. So what was. What was your personal relationship with God?

Floor Edwards (36:08)

Oh, that's a good question. You mean then.

Julian Morgans (36:12)

Yeah, then through your childhood and into your teen years.

Floor Edwards (36:15)

I mean, I don't know that I had one. I think it was like, it was fearful. I had a fear of not just God. I had a fear of authority. Anyone, any authority. So Father David specifically. So I didn't even. I can't say I even thought or believed in anything. I was just too scared to question it, basically.

Julian Morgans (36:35)

Wow. So. So for you, it was much more of a doctrine of fear rather than a spirituality.

Floor Edwards (36:41)

Oh, absolutely, definitely.

Julian Morgans (36:43)

As a child, would you describe yourself as a religious person these days?

Floor Edwards (36:48)

I wouldn't say religious. And a lot of people do ask me that. And my answer to that is, so. I remember the first time when I was in college and I was starting to make friends, and I heard someone say they were an atheist. And it was the first time I heard the word atheist in a different context from, you know, we had a whole, like, language in the group. And. And I remember I was, I think 19 years old, and I was like, I knew I wasn't an atheist. I didn't believe in nothing. And even to this day, I do have a spiritual belief. A spiritual, I think, practice a spiritual connection. Like, I pray I can't put labels on it. I also think big part of the downfall of a group like this was this idea that what you believed, everyone else needed to believe the same thing. And one thing about religion is that it's sacred, which means sometimes it should be a secret. It's your own thing. And I do have a connection. I just. After all, I've been through. It's impossible for me to subscribe to any religion. I always fantasize about going to church. Trust me. I mean, I live here in Nashville. There's like. I call it Church Row, and I drive down it. I'm like, man, I would love to go to church. I just. I would go for the community. I would. I have. I've gone to church a few times. And it's hard for me sometimes to sit and listen to certain rhetoric when it comes to religion and what's right and what's wrong. But I believe 100% in spirituality. I believe in. I believe in a higher power. Like I said, like, I knew I wasn't an atheist. I couldn't believe that this is all there is. I believe in miracles. I've lived through miracles. But I just couldn't subscribe to any, you know, religion.

Julian Morgans (38:40)

I think that's entirely understandable. I think when it's rammed down your throat like that in such negative ways, it would be pretty hard to internalize it and really, really hold it sacred as something of your own. So. So take me through the chronology a little bit more. So, so you're in Thailand for a long time, and then at a certain point, you guys moved back to the States. And I understand it was around this time that. That it was announced that Father David had actually died. Can you. Can you walk me through that year? I think this was 1994.

Floor Edwards (39:12)

So it was like, I want to say 92ish. But first came the news that we had to leave. So basically we would get letters, basic filtered, you know, from Father David to us. There was a whole, like, production team in Japan where they had, like, studios, they created movie videos, they created, you know, the literature, cassette tapes back in the day. And once in a while, big news would come out. And when I was four years old, everyone get out of the western world, get out of the United States, get out of Europe, go to third world countries to, you know, preach this message. And it was getting close to 93, but no one talked about it. No one was like, oh, when's this gonna happen? It was just. Every day it was like, okay, we just got to keep, you know, living this life and, you know, abiding by these rules.

Julian Morgans (40:04)

And around 93 was when the world was going to end.

Floor Edwards (40:07)

Yeah, 93 was the day. It was just like 1993. When I was five, six years old, that was when I would go to sleep in a puddle of tears. But as I got older, I think I just started to have different Concerns. It was just. I was, I was growing up a little bit. But around, I think 92, we got a letter that change of plans, you know. Oh God. God now said, let's all move back to the Western world. The Western world is ready to hear our message. And these are the moments where you're just kind of like, what? Like we had this very strategic way of going around to. We want to get every single person in the world alerted to this apocalypse. That literally was their mission, you know. And so then he was like, you know, the Western world's ready. And so, so I remember we had this, this meeting with my family. I was, I think 12 years old. And basically they were like, look, we're going to move back to either Sweden or America, which we called it America. And we just, it was, it was kind of like a shot. It was like, roll the dice. We ended up in Chicago, south side of Chicago, in the middle of winter. At that point we just had to stay warm. I remember we weren't like freezing, but we lived in homes. And then we would go out and like, we just. I remember I had like two pairs of jeans and it was, it was Chicago cold. And then one morning we wake up in February is his birthday, and we would have like a kind of like a big celebration. We would do like a whole like three day fasting. The adults would fast and it was a very like spiritual kind of thing every year. And then on his birthday, it was this big celebration. They would break the fast. And then this year, this was 1993 in February, they opened up the meeting with, you know, father David's dead. And I was just like, I remember, like, that was probably one of the most defining moments in like my childhood. Just like that this man dictated every move, but we never even knew him or saw what he looked like. And the whole thing disintegrated after that. Like it no longer held together the way it did. But that's like a whole new. A new chapter. But that's kind of how we got out of it.

Julian Morgans (42:22)

Wow. And so this whole thing about the sort of like 93 just drifted past without the world ending. How was that explained by the church? How was that explained by your parents? And how did you make sense of that yourself?

Floor Edwards (42:37)

They just kept saying it could happen this year. That's literally there would come every single year. They would come in, you new, they call them newsletters. And it would just be, it could happen this year. And it was just like they would slowly start to justify, oh, you know, no one's perfect. Father David's not perfect. So it was always about the rhetoric then. At that point, I was like, 12, but I really was just. I started to get concerned because, like, we were supposed to be God's, like, love whores, basically. So, like, as a child, I had two choices. I was like, death or I had to become like a. I mean, like, literally, like, if you became a woman, you just. You became a baby maker. And you're supposed to, you know, be open to God's love on all levels. And I was terrified of both. I was. And I think that's why I was like, okay, I'll. I'll just die instead. So as I started to become like a. A young preteen, I was just, like, my body was starting to change, and I was just terrified of possibly starting to have to have sex. And I was like 12 years old. I never did. But, you know, it was no longer a concern of death. It was a concern of having to be a. A love slave for God.

Julian Morgans (43:46)

Yeah. Yeah, that's. They're both bad options.

Floor Edwards (43:49)

Yeah.

Julian Morgans (43:50)

Terrible. Not. Not very empowering for young women.

Floor Edwards (43:52)

No.

Julian Morgans (43:54)

Okay, so. So was the death of Father David a bit of a catalyst?

Floor Edwards (44:00)

Absolutely.

Julian Morgans (44:01)

Did it? Yeah.

Floor Edwards (44:02)

That was.

Julian Morgans (44:02)

In. In what way?

Floor Edwards (44:03)

I mean, that was the defining moment. So what happened is, without him dictating every move that we made, they had to come up with a new kind of set of rules, like a new kind of hierarchy. And he had a. I guess his wife. We'll call him his wife. Her name was Maria. I don't know if she's still alive, but she became like the new leader. And they came up with this book of rules called the Charter. And it could just be like, oh, all of a sudden, we woke up one morning, boom, this is a new law. And everyone would just do it, you know, simple things like, oh, everyone cut their hair, everyone move out of the West. But when he was gone, it was like, okay, well, what's going to be the driving force? So they came up with this, like, structured book of rules. And these rules basically gave people freedom. They said we needed four adults and that would be a home. Whereas before it was like 10 to 20 adults. And so my family, it was my parents, plus we found one other couple, and then we had 12 plus their kids. There was like 15 kids. And we were basically abandoned in. In Chicago. Like, that was all we had. My parents had no education, really. They'd been out of the. The world for 20 something years. And we basically just had to. Had to figure out how to survive. So at that point, I remember that was a really difficult time.

Julian Morgans (45:36)

Hey, it's time for a quick ad break here. But please don't go anywhere. Stick around. Cause we'll be right back.

Floor Edwards (45:48)

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Floor Edwards (46:16)

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Julian Morgans (46:50)

And at what point did you go through a process of, I guess, like, deprogramming? When did you start to really ask some big questions?

Floor Edwards (46:58)

Yeah, so I was always, I think there. There was like, three of us sisters who were very close in age. My twin sister Tamar and my older sister. And we were kind of like a little clan, right? And we would make fun of things and, oh, we would. We would get humiliated. We would get spanked. And honestly, my. My older sister Marianne, she was a bit of. And she was just like, this is not right. And my mom found out that she had cancer. Basically, like, she was given, like, a 10% chance to live. And I think my parents at that point had like, six kids that were all teenagers. And they basically asked us, like, look, what do you want to do? Which I always. I know there's questions about my parents, and I have, you know, my own relationship and beliefs and everything, but at that point, they did something that most parents didn't do. They said, what do you guys want to do? And we basically said, we want to go to school. We want to basically be in the world. We want to be systemites is what they called them. And my parents basically were like, all right, they put us kids first. But it became a whole new, you know, level of challenges. So that was the moment of, I guess, enlightenment for us. But the actual moment for me was I. This is now part of the story is I opened Up a magazine, and there was a quiz in there and said, did you grow up in a cult? Take this quiz and find out now. And after that, I just walked around for days with like, oh, my God. I grew up in a cult. I grew up in a cult. I was, like, 15 years old at the time. And that started.

Julian Morgans (48:31)

Let's zoom in on this for a moment. What were some of the questions?

Floor Edwards (48:36)

Number one. Did you grow up in a secluded environment? I thought about the homes with the high walls. Yes. Were you under the influence of a charismatic leader? I thought about Father David and all the leaders. Yes. Were you coerced to recruit members to your group? I thought about how we went witnessing to recruit souls for God's heavenly kingdom? Absolutely. Were you prohibited from leaving the premises unless you were recruiting members? Yes. 5. Were you taught that the world outside was a forbidden place? And did you feel guilty for wanting to leave? Bingo. So that feeling of guilt, I think, was the big one for me, because everything else was like, okay. But when it said, did you feel guilty for wanting to leave? And it said, if you have answered yes to at least three of the last five questions, then you may have grown up in a cult. And I answered yes to all five.

Julian Morgans (49:27)

And how did you feel when you closed that magazine?

Floor Edwards (49:31)

I could not get home fast enough to tell my sisters. I was just like. I showed it to them. I was like, you guys, we grew up in a culture I'll never forget. For days, that's all that went through my mind. I grew up in a cult. I grew up in a cult. That's like, my mind couldn't fathom it.

Julian Morgans (49:46)

Did you take this information to your parents?

Floor Edwards (49:49)

My mom had just been diagnosed with cancer. My youngest brother was just born, and I was taking care of him. And we did take it to them. What did you do at that point is also when I started, you know, hanging out with other, you know, kids at school. Maybe not the best influence. We started, like, drinking, you know, smoking pot, doing, you know, some experimenting with drugs. And we were angry. We were real mad. And we would come home, and my parents were dealing with so much. I mean, my dad was back in school. He was just trying to figure out how to get, you know, raise money for, you know, our family just to survive. My mom was, like, I said, she had a 10 prognosis at the time. So as anger as we were, what were they supposed to do? Like, they were not in a place to sit down. Like, look, we're sorry. My parents were just having to deal with these Very delicate and disastrous outcomes, which was cancer, finances, 12 children, all under the age of 14. It was just. It was survival on every level that you just don't see. This is not like a normal. You can't. Like, there's no, like, you know, social studies book that says, oh, yeah, and sometimes this happens. This was just like a whole different experiment.

Julian Morgans (51:10)

I feel really sorry for your parents, actually.

Floor Edwards (51:13)

You know, when I wrote the book, I think a big part of writing a book for me was to, I think, understanding. If you look at something and you just think, oh, that's bad, oh my God, what's wrong? That is not an intelligent way to look at something. And I think you can apply this to anything. And a big, big reason why I wrote the book, which people may or may not know, is like, I needed to understand first and foremost. Then I also needed to, I guess, forgive, because the only way I could get move forward in my own life was to understand it. That was the only way I could, I guess, in some ways forgive it. And understanding my parents too, and why they joined this thing and knowing that this happens, this is not like, it doesn't mean they're bad people. And they didn't always know what was going on with us. Like my mom, my. My parents didn't know that I was like up at night crying. In fact, the other day I had a moment with my mom where I said something to her and she was just like, oh, she didn't realize, like, that we've had trauma from this. But. But yes, I appreciate that you say you kind of feel sorry for my parents because. Yeah, they were victims too, and we were, you know, offshoot of that.

Julian Morgans (52:25)

Yeah. Well, it seems to me that in their own ways they were trying their best. I mean, they joined when they were young.

Floor Edwards (52:31)

Yeah.

Julian Morgans (52:31)

You know, your dad, they were like 20 brothers.

Floor Edwards (52:33)

Yeah.

Julian Morgans (52:34)

Yeah. That thing about your dad, his brothers were already in their older brothers too. So you sort of always follow your older brother.

Floor Edwards (52:40)

Oh, yeah, he was trying to be cool. It was like just trying to do it. Yeah. They're doing their thing.

Julian Morgans (52:45)

That's it. When you're 20, you're just so naive.

Floor Edwards (52:48)

Yeah. And they did. My parents do still. They're still together. They. They love. They also. What made things more complicated was my parents loved each other through it all. They really did. And they still do. And my mom is now actually has a lot of health issues and she's. She's quite sick. She's been quite sick for a while, but my dad's just there and Like, I've seen them have their kind of moments here and there, but I remember that at one point when I was, you know, kind of in college, I was just like, I've never seen my parents fight, like, as, as tough as everything was. I love my parents still. I've had my moments of grief and, and, you know, gripe, but they did the best they could.

Julian Morgans (53:31)

Yeah, yeah. So. So how did you sit with your own past through your twenties?

Floor Edwards (53:37)

I wrote, and my dad, he's like, putting you into high school is going to be like feeding a bunch of lambs to a den of lines. And I'll never forget that. So he put us in college and my sister and I thrived. Like, I went and wrote my first essay and I was just like, I have to do this. I had no idea what I was doing, but I was like, I have to write a book. So I think my sister and I both got into some very healing kind of environments and I realized I was not responsible for my trauma or my past, but I was responsible for my own healing.

Julian Morgans (54:12)

How did your siblings and your parents feel about you writing about, about kind of their private lives as well, your family story?

Floor Edwards (54:21)

My mom was actually the first reader of the book. I gave it, I gave her an advanced copy and I said, mom, look, I wrote this honestly as I could. If you have any issues with anything, tell me and I'll. But I had to really sit. I think that's one thing healing about writing is you have to really sit and question everything. And she read it and she said she understood things so much better and then she would recommend it to people now, so. And quite a few of my siblings have read it. My dad has not. But I don't blame him. He's just, no, he's not going to read my book. But yeah, my mom read it. A lot of my siblings read it and they all appreciate it. You know, a lot of kids who grew up like me would have reached out to me and said, hey, thank you. Because I showed this book to my therapist, I showed this book to my significant other who I can't talk about this. Like most people can't talk about it. And I, you know, for some reason just felt the need to talk about it.

Julian Morgans (55:22)

Do you have ways in which your past, I guess some of your traumas show up in your day to day life?

Floor Edwards (55:31)

I'm sure, yeah, I think trauma never really goes away. It's kind of like grief. But I'm sure as an adult, it's affected me differently in ways I Don't know that I'm always fully aware of, but, you know, I'm doing what I can and. And, yeah, I'm sure it shows up here and there.

Julian Morgans (55:52)

Okay. Does the group exist anymore?

Floor Edwards (55:55)

That's a really good question. I. I hope not. I don't know. I am part of, like, a Facebook group. There's a lot of kids who still talk about things privately. You know, there was a recent posting that Maria, his. His wife had died. And I know they kind of kept things going a little bit here and there, but I. I want to say it's. It's pretty much done, but I don't know for sure.

Julian Morgans (56:24)

Cults are really popular sort of sources of, you know, true crime documentaries on Netflix. And I mean, I like, please don't be offended by this word, but for a lot of people, cults seem like entertainment. They're like, wow, that's so weird. How do you feel about that?

Floor Edwards (56:41)

It goes back to that question, like, it's like, ask you to fish what it's like to live in water, or like, if you don't know something, it's going to be entertainment to you. You know what I mean? So it's like, I find more interesting as normal lives that people live. Like, when someone tells me they're like, boring childhood, I'm like, tell me more.

Julian Morgans (56:58)

Of course. Yeah, of course. I'm wondering if you've got any advice for people who are perhaps in a cult or working to heal from a childhood like yours.

Floor Edwards (57:08)

Yeah, it's hard because it's a unique experience. It's hard to find other people who have been through it. But like I was saying earlier, it was a personal journey for me of realizing, like, I was not responsible for my trauma or, you know, the story that happened to me. I was more responsible with creating my own story.

Julian Morgans (57:33)

Well, Flo, look, thank you so much for coming on the show, you know, giving us some of your time. It's been a fascinating conversation, and some of your insights have just been amazing. So thank you so much.

Floor Edwards (57:44)

Thank you. It was wonderful talking to you.

Julian Morgans (57:48)

Before we wrap up today, I just want to recommend that you go and check out Floor's book. It's called Apocalypse Child, and it goes much deeper into her childhood and. And just the long shadow that her upbringing cast over her life. And if you're a subscriber, you should join me for a very spooky look at the ways that AI is misbehaving. Like I said earlier, just right at the very top of the show, all of our most advanced AI models, LLMs. They're showing signs of scheming and lots of top researchers are sounding the alarm on that. And I and I go into the detail about what's happening and what we can do about it, how we should feel about it. Spoiler alert. We should probably be nervous. That's on our subscriber only episode this week. What It Was like is produced by Rachel Tuffery. This episode was edited by Ellie Dickey, who also does our research. Our cover art is by Rich Akers. Our theme music was produced by Jimmy Saunders and this whole thing has been a super real production.

Floor Edwards (59:05)

In a world where January is supposed to be boring, one staple of the holidays where refuses to end the great.

Julian Morgans (59:13)

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Floor Edwards (59:20)

New phones and four lines. Critics agree it's the deal that keeps on giving.

Julian Morgans (59:26)

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Floor Edwards (59:29)

New phones and four lines on unlimited.

Julian Morgans (59:31)

Welcome.

Floor Edwards (59:31)

Additional terms apply@seeverizon.com for details.

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