Lighting Bushfires Made Me Feel Less Alone

Summary

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What It Was Like

Episode: Lighting Bushfires Made Me Feel Less Alone
Host: Julian Morgans (Superreal)
Date: September 21, 2025

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Main Theme

This episode features a rare and deeply intimate conversation with "Steve," a convicted bushfire arsonist in regional Australia. Steve shares his traumatic childhood, the roots of his arson behavior, and the way bushfire lighting became a desperate attempt to belong and be seen. The discussion aims to move beyond demonization, exploring the intersection between trauma and crime, and attempts to empathetically answer: what drives people to become bushfire arsonists?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background: Who are Bushfire Arsonists?

(03:06–07:19)

• Host Julian Morgans describes the context: arsonists are blamed for devastating Australian bushfires, but their stories are largely absent from public discourse.
• Cites research: up to 50% of bushfires in Australia are deliberately lit (Australian Institute of Criminology, 2008).
• Remembers infamous cases like Brendan Sokolok and notes the mental health complexities often involved.
• Julian’s goal: to find an arsonist willing to talk and explore the "why" behind the crime.

“No one's really just sat down for sort of like an empathetic conversation with a bushfire arsonist. So that was my goal.”
— Julian Morgans (05:04)

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2. Introducing Steve: Upbringing and Trauma

(07:19–13:12)

• Steve’s early life: typical small town, family with divorced parents, joined local fire brigade hoping to bond with his father.
• At age 12, his life dramatically changed after being sexually assaulted by his best friend and another older boy.

“I was actually raped by my best friend. The mental anguish and the mental path that it took me on became really dark.”
— Steve (12:49)

• Became withdrawn, angry, and isolated throughout adolescence, bottling up trauma for seven years.

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3. Coping and the Fire Brigade's Influence

(13:12–21:12)

• Found a sense of purpose and value in the fire brigade:
  • Learned skills, felt needed for the first time, had a surrogate father figure in the fire captain.
  • Firefighting camaraderie was a rare positive force.
• Steve describes the fire brigade as a place where he finally belonged.

“As part of the fire brigade, I felt I belonged, and I had that feeling of importance and belonging.”
— Steve (11:40)

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4. Lighting Fires: Beginnings and Motivations

(28:20–34:38)

• Steve started lighting bushfires before turning 18, driven by boredom, loneliness, and unresolved anger.
• Would drive his mum’s car into the bush, light matches, throw them out the window, then hurry back to activate the fire station and be the local hero.

“Throw some matches out of the window... then I went home and waited.”
— Steve (28:49, 29:16)

• Key motivation: the positive feedback and camaraderie of responding to the fires he secretly created — a way to temporarily escape from his pain and feel significant within a community.

“I felt on top of the world... I was now with the guys and I felt like they were part of my family.”
— Steve (31:26, 31:30)

• Steve insists he was not a "pyromaniac" attracted to fire itself; it was about the emotional reward of belonging.

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5. Escalation, Guilt, and Frequency

(34:39–38:17)

• Arson became Steve’s coping mechanism after conflict or emotional stress, similar to someone turning to alcohol.
• Estimates at least 10 fires, possibly more, as fires often spread unpredictably.
• Does not believe he ever killed anyone or destroyed property, but acknowledges likely harm to wildlife.

“Did I want to hurt people? Definitely not. Did I hurt people? Maybe not physically. Possibly mentally.”
— Steve (38:05)

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6. The Day He Was Caught

(44:09–48:31)

• On the day Steve was apprehended, he lingered at the scene and was seen by a council worker who recorded his mum’s car number plate.
• The police investigation led to Steve's confession, breaking through his emotional "mask" to reveal a scared, traumatized young man.

“The policeman that I was speaking to... took every single mask off and got to me and found that I was this scared little boy.”
— Steve (47:19)

---

7. Legal Outcomes and Therapy

(49:38–52:17)

• Steve narrowly avoided prison, being sent for psychological evaluation and mandated therapy.
• Therapy lasted five years, far longer than court-ordered. He credits his counselor as a "guardian angel" guiding him toward self-understanding and recovery.

“My counsellor, I felt, was my guardian angel who come down to help me.”
— Steve (51:55)

• Only in therapy did Steve disclose his childhood sexual assault.

---

8. Healing, Reflection, and Letting Go

(54:16–56:46)

• Steve wrote a cathartic letter to his abuser, burned it rather than sending it, and felt released from years of guilt.

“The burning of it is a symbolizing of release. Let’s just release to the atmosphere. Let’s just go.”
— Steve (56:24)

• He is now able to discuss his past openly, hoping his story helps break the stigma and aids others dealing with trauma.

“If my story can even help one person understand their story, then I've done well.”
— Steve (56:50)

---

9. Aftermath: Stigma and Advice

(57:39–60:27)

• Steve’s arrest was front-page news. He was expelled from the fire brigade — the loss of his one positive identity.
• Recovery was long, requiring "time, patience, and dedication."
• Advice for others: reach out for help, whether to a counselor or a trusted friend.

“If they're a true friend, they take you as you are, regardless. And these days, I'm happy who I am. I enjoy being me.”
— Steve (59:38, 60:02)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Age 12, that was a major turning point in my life... I was actually raped by my best friend." — Steve (12:40, 12:49)
• "At that stage I was just like a rag doll... I was the smallest kid in high school for two years." — Steve (17:42)
• "It was the only mechanism that I thought was available." — Steve on firelighting as coping (36:17)
• "That environment [fire brigade] really changed my Persona... Outside that environment, all the negative thoughts came in." — Steve (33:16, 33:30)
• "These days I can talk about it, no problem at all. Occasionally I might get emotional, but that's understandable... If I didn't show emotion, there's a lot more wrong than right." — Steve (56:31, 56:50)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Context and statistics on arson: 03:06–07:19
• Steve's childhood and assault: 07:19–13:12
• Joining fire brigade and sense of belonging: 13:12–21:12
• First fires & motivations: 28:20–34:38
• Arson as emotional escape: 34:39–38:17
• Getting caught and police interview: 44:09–48:31
• Escaping prison, therapy journey: 49:38–52:17
• Letting go of trauma (the letter): 54:16–56:46
• Public shaming, aftermath, advice: 57:39–60:27

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Conclusion

This episode offers an unflinching, compassionate look at the life and mind of a bushfire arsonist, reframing the narrative from one of villainy to one of trauma, loneliness, and the desperate search for connection. Steve’s story refuses easy condemnation, illuminating the immense complexity that sits behind headlines and public anger.

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Content Note:
This episode discusses child sexual assault and may be distressing for some listeners.

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Find more at What It Was Like Podcast.

Transcript

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[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Super real. I borrowed Mum's car and driving through the bush I thought throw some matches out of the window.

[Interviewer]

You started with a few matches out the window of your car, just lighting matches and throwing them out. Did you wait to see at all if those matches caught?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I could see in the rear view mirror that they had caught. Then I went home and waited.

[Interviewer]

And then half an hour later there was a fire front of a kilometre long.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yep, I had a key to the fire station. By the time everybody arrived, I had everything open. We get in the trucks and off we go.

[Interviewer]

How did that make you feel?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Oh, I felt on top of the world.

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

Hey, I'm Julian Morgans and you're listening to what It Was like, the show that asks people who have lived through big dramatic events what it was like. Hey, just a heads up. Today's episode deals with the sexual assault of a minor. Every summer here in Australia, we get bushfires and they sweep across the country and then we look for someone to blame. And every summer we get the same headlines about arsonists or fire bugs as we Call them. And we blame them for lighting the fires and causing property damage and killing people.

[Interviewer]

And you know what?

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

Like, this is not empty speculation. You know, arsonists, they do. They do light fires. They cause a lot of damage. And in fact, I was looking at this report. So in 2008, the Australian Institute of Criminology published published findings that up to 50% of bushfires in Australia are deliberately lit. And this isn't a faceless crime either. So we do arrest people, and, you know, people are charged, and it turns out that, yeah, people are, for some crazy reason, lighting bushfires. I actually remember after the Black Saturday fires in 2009, for example, they arrested this guy named Brendan Sokolok, and he was charged with lighting this fire in Gippsland that killed multiple people. And he was sentenced to 17 years in prison. He's actually just got out, but I remember watching him on a video. There was, like, a YouTube video of his arrest. And it's clear that the guy was pretty mentally impaired. And I remember watching him stuttering and stammering as he was being questioned by police. And I was wondering, like, who is this guy? You know, what. What drives people to deliberately light fires? What was happening in this man's life that motivated him to do this? And that was kind of the moment where I set out to answer that question, because no one's really. I mean, there's. There's been a few cases of. Of, like, arsonists speaking up in the public, but no one's really just sat down for sort of like an empathetic conversation with a bushfire arsonist. So that was my goal. I was like, I'm gonna do this. This is something I. I don't know why, but it felt important to me. And it took me about six months. Every step of the way, I was hit by a different roadblock. The police wouldn't help me, academics wouldn't help me, Criminal researchers, none of them wanted to be helpful in any way whatsoever. There was just red tape everywhere and people talking about privacy laws. And, you know, I get it, but it was annoying. Anyway, finally I tracked down a man who is willing to talk, and I actually, I first interviewed him while I was at Vice.

[Interviewer]

So some of you might have already.

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

Heard from this guy, but today you're going to hear a fresh conversation with an update on his life and a bit more insight into. Into why someone would become a bushfire arsonist. Now, for safety reasons, I'm going to call him Steve. Now, Steve is not his real name. His identity is also going to be obscured in our videos. And we're not going to name the town where this happened, only that I'll say that it happened in regional Australia in the late 1980s. Now, Steve never killed anyone, and he believes that none of the fires that he lit destroyed any property. Still, he admits to lighting at least 10 bushfires and possibly more. And while he describes them as victimless crimes, I think they reflect a broader, unsettling criminal profile or, I don't know, kind of unsettling. Maybe that's not quite fair because I think. I think really you will. You'll sympathize with Steve today because you're about to hear that his behavior wasn't driven by malice really, it was a cry for help. So the story is that he was sexually assaulted by his friend as a 12 year old and he carried this deep anger around with him. He was furious at the world. And it was this rage, this anger that eventually curdled into lighting fires. And as you'll hear today, Steve believes that most arsonists are actually just channeling their trauma in similar ways. So that's what we're doing today on this episode, the main episode that you're hearing right now. But also in the. In the bonus episode, I want to talk more about what I learned in my long search to track down a bushfire arsonist, because like I said, it took six months. It was some incredibly complex twists and turns. I learned so much. I took a tour of a police archive and looked at all sorts of evidence that they'd collected up around bushfire arsonists. I actually managed to speak to some fascinating people and I learned a lot. So that's in our bonus episode. But for the moment, let's sit down with Steve. Steve, who is a convicted bushfire arsonist, and he's going to tell us his story about why, as a teenager, he turned to lighting bushfires.

[Interviewer]

Hey, Steve, welcome to the show.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Thanks for having me.

[Interviewer]

I want to start this conversation in a relatively pointy way. My first question for you is, what is your earliest memory of fire?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Earliest memory? Well, I suppose I wasn't really exposed to the world except for the one that I was living in with the family. Then as I got into my teens, I then joined the local fire brigade. And I suppose that's when I was really exposed to fire and obviously the dangers involved in that, in what I can do. So it's not as if I don't know what fire is. It's just that I didn't really get exposed to it until I joined the Local fire brigade.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

So I guess what I'm getting at was there was no pivotal moment where you remember as a kid looking at a flickering flame and being enraptured by its power.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

No. I suppose that did come when I first went out with the local fire brigade and we had a bushfire. We went to put out. And I suppose there was a couple of things in that that I do recall in relation to the adrenaline that certainly peaked and the behavior of the fire, because obviously we looked at how to extinguish it and how to ensure that it was safe, et cetera, and were there areas could flare, because when you are in that environment, a gust of wind can certainly pick up embers and drop it somewhere else. So I was learning about fire back then and obviously working in being in that environment again. You tend to find idiosyncrasies in fallout and what that entails.

[Interviewer]

Well said. Let's start with your childhood.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Sure.

[Interviewer]

Mum, dad.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Mum, dad, brother, sister.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I was the middle child.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Ten months between my brother and I and five years between myself and my sister.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

All in all, it was fairly boring, I would say. Childhood, and then mum and dad split. Mum then moved to where dad was to try and rekindle, and that didn't occur. And we stayed in the area where we were living at that point in time. And that's also when I became a member of the local fire brigade because my father was also a member.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And I thought be with him more through that period of time.

[Interviewer]

Would you describe yourself as a happy.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Child prior to age 12? Yes, prior to age 12. Age 12. That was a major turning point in my life, and I didn't have a lot of friends growing up. Still don't, to be truthful. Like, I have people of acquaintances that I talk with and stuff, but actual friends that I could call up and say, let's go out or let's go do something, or can you give me a hand or anything? I don't have those kind of friends as such. So in that respect, I was a bit of a loner. However, as part of the fire brigade, I felt I belonged, and I had that feeling of importance and feeling of belonging.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

And this was like the junior fire brigade in, like, a small country town. So I'm guessing, you know, you're doing drills on your own.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. And I learned the equipment really well and picked. Picked up how to operate the equipment and how to maintain the equipment pretty quickly, and I became really good at that. And I used to keep the tool Sharp. So if we needed to use tool out on the fire front, they are available, and they were ready to go.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay, nice.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

So it made me feel that I was a valued member of the brigade.

[Interviewer 2]

Right.

[Interviewer]

It gave you a purpose.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah, absolutely. And I did mention that age 12, things changed a bit. And the biggest change in that entire year is that I was actually raped by my best friend.

[Interviewer 2]

No.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

The mental anguish and the mental path that it took me on became really dark.

[Interviewer]

I feel apologetic for asking, but could you take me on that journey? You know, like, who was this guy? And I'm guessing sure.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

We were friends from school. We used to stay at each other's houses. They'd come to our house, I'd go to the house.

[Interviewer]

Would you say this guy was like your first real friend?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, we had two or three people that I would classify as friends, and he was in that group of people, and we got on. In my opinion, however, it was the 14th of February, which is Valentine's Day, which really upset my psyche for the years ahead. It was a day that I dreaded because of the events that occurred. And the day was a really hot day. And we went down to the local swimming pool. A friend was there with a friend of his, and his friend had a car. So near the end of the day, I told my friend I was heading home. He said, oh, we're heading back. And he used to live about a block and a half away from me, so we used to walk to each other's places all the time because we were so close. And he said, well, I'm heading home, too. I'll give you a lift. I didn't want to walk up that big hill, so. Yeah. And I didn't think of it being anything except helping a friend also.

[Interviewer]

Is your friend.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. I didn't know the other guy.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so the other guy was driving. It was his.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

The other guy. It was his car.

[Interviewer]

He was a bit older.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yes, he was.

[Interviewer]

But your friend was also 12?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

My friend was actually 14, so he was older than I was. But he was in the same year that I was. And his mate said, I just got to go home, grab some stuff, because I'm staying at my mate's place. Sure, no problem. Well, that was. That was just mind blowing. And you may think, how is it mind blowing? Well, they decided that near his house, they wanted to go to the beach. I just wanted to go home. And I said to my friend, I just really want to go home. I've been in the sun all day. I just need to go home, have a shower and get all across. He said, yeah, we'll be 10 minutes. So I just sat up on the dune. They flogged in the water and then his mate come up to me and said, I want you. And I was a bit naive back then.

[Interviewer]

You're 12 years old.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Exactly right, yeah. What do you mean you want me? And he pulled his pants down and said, I want you to suck me. I'm not doing that. I want to go home. And I called out to my mate and I said, take me home now. And his mate pushed me on my stomach and proceeded to penetrate me.

[Interviewer]

Steve, I'm so sorry.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I was screaming. His mate thumped me on the side of the head to stop me screaming. Then my mate, he put his penis in my mouth.

[Interviewer]

My God.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I bit down good. And I drew blood good. And he thumped me across the face. After his mate was done, my mate did the same. At this stage, I was like a rag doll.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

There was no fighting me. I. They were stronger than I was, they were bigger than I was. I was the smallest kid in high school for two years, so I'm not the tallest guy there is. Then they hopped in their car and drove away. They left you and left me?

[Interviewer]

Oh, mate.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

All I had was my towel and my swimmers and about a 10 kilometer walk home. When I reached home, it was after dark.

[Interviewer]

Do you remember that walk?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I do. And before they left they said, if you call the cops, we're coming back to kill you.

[Interviewer]

This is awful.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It was. And imagine how a 12 year old copes with that.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

You've got no idea of your own rights, your own power. No.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

When I arrived home, I was the only one at home.

[Interviewer 2]

Right.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

So I couldn't speak to my mum. Well, she happened to be over visiting her sister in Adelaide. I didn't know where my dad was. My sister was at a friend's of mum's house. While she was away she stayed over there and I don't know where my brother was. So I arrive home, go inside. I think it's about 8, 8:30 at night. All I can do is cry on my bed.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

That changed my demeanor.

[Interviewer]

Like something inside you snapped.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah, I become very angry.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Confused and lashed out a lot. Unfortunately my sister copped most of it and since then I have apologized to her. It took me actually seven years to tell mum what happened. So for seven years I have this built up inside me.

[Interviewer]

And the reason that you didn't tell anyone, is it because you're afraid of being murdered? By these guys or you just innately felt like your masculinity or something, your value had been tarnished.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, to be truthful, I didn't felt worthy. I didn't feel like I was worth anything.

[Interviewer]

You didn't feel worthy of being helped or supported?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

To be truthful, I even contemplated suicide a couple of times. Yeah, the only thing that stopped me doing it was the impact that it would have on my mum. It's the only thing. So I understand. It is a sad thing that occurred. However, once I became part of the fire brigade, I felt I belonged to.

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

Hey, it's time for a quick ad break here, but please don't go anywhere. Stick around because we'll be right back.

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[Interviewer 2]

Whoa. When did I get here?

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What do you mean?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I swear it was just moments ago.

[Interviewer]

That I accepted a great offer from Carvana Online.

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I must have time traveled to the future.

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[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It is the future.

[Interviewer]

It's.

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[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It's all good.

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Did I talk too much?

[Interviewer]

Did I just let it go?

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

I wish I would stop thinking so much.

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[Interviewer]

So did you join the fire brigade after you'd been assaulted?

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

How old were you when you joined the fire brigade?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I was about 16, so it's about four years afterwards.

[Interviewer]

So you had sort of like four years of bottled up rage and despair.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

I mean, this kind of makes sense from a psychological standpoint. This makes sense.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. And like, I was angry and angry all the time. From the time I woke up to the time I went to bed. I was abrupt with everybody in the household. My brother, my mum. And mum never understood why, because she said, you were a great kid. And then all of a sudden this angry person come out. But she didn't quite understand until after I told her what occurred. And she goes, why didn't you tell me? I said, you weren't here, Mum. You were visiting your sister. And then she took on the guilt, which.

[Interviewer]

That's really sad.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. And you know what? She did her best.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

She was a single mum looking after three kids on her own. Dad left. Well, he was technically kicked out. Mum decided that they weren't living together anymore. And that happened on a Wednesday afternoon after school. Again, I was about 16 when that occurred.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

So everything seemed to be piling on top at the time. And school wasn't the best. I was picked on a lot because of my size. So that is a compound on compound on compound on compound on compound.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And no understanding of how to manage it or cope with it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You weren't talking to anyone?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

No, I wasn't talking to anybody. I was bottling it up in myself. And to be truthful, I was destroying me in that. I didn't look after my health, I didn't look after my personal hygiene. I couldn't care less, to be truthful. And obviously, once I told mum what occurred, she cried, obviously. And I cried too, of course, because it was the first time I've actually told somebody about it. And she said she would have told me. I said, well, what could have she done? Yeah, because it was done. She can't change it.

[Interviewer]

She could have had those kids arrested.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, anyway, she said, oh, we would have gone to the police. And I said, and you'd have taken me through that trauma. Because don't get me wrong, the police are great. They do a fantastic job, but they're things they don't understand. And a guy being raped by another guy is something they don't understand a lot.

[Interviewer]

Especially at that point in the 1980s.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

Right. That's a crime with a lot of stigma.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah, absolutely. So not telling somebody was my way to cope with it. Was it the best way? Hindsight? No.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

At age 12 to 16, it's the best I can do. So being part of the fire brigade, I was around guys all the time. Because they were predominantly men in the fire brigade, the captain of the fire brigade became more like a father figure.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And I really looked up to the male role models there because I guess.

[Interviewer]

Your own dad was out of the picture at this point.

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

And you sort of had this sense of camaraderie. Maybe for the first time in your life, you felt like you had friends and value.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

But there weren't always fires to put out.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

No, there was not. Summertime, obviously, was more prominent for fires than wintertime.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

On occasions through winter, we would go on what we call burn reduction exercises, and that helps us hone our skills. So before turning 18, I was bored one day and decided I was gonna go and light some fires.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

So did this idea just pop out of the clear blue sky, or had you been thinking about it for a while?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I can't really remember because obviously I'm talking. It's a long time ago, 39 years ago. But I borrowed mum's car. I had got my license, and driving through the bush, I thought, oh, throw some matches out of the window. Then I went home and waited.

[Interviewer]

Did you wait to see at all if those matches caught, or did you just keep moving on?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I kept moving on, but I could see in the rear view mirror that they had caught.

[Interviewer 2]

Oh.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Because obviously I was on a dirt road, so I wasn't going too fast. And it was all bushland. There was no houses around, nothing like that. And we had been taught in the fire brigade because we used to have educational times where we'd learn about the Australian bush and what to look for. And the Australian bush needs fire to be able to rejuvenate. And fire also helps keep the undergrowth down to prevent catastrophe fires. So we learned that as we went. I had a key to the fire station. So because I lived literally across the road from it, if the fire siren went, because the call would come to the captain, he'd press a button, send off the fire alarm.

[Interviewer 2]

Sure.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Would go, meet at the fire alarm. By the time everybody arrived, I had everything open.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It was, we get in the trucks, and off we go.

[Interviewer]

So you were the first on the scene. You were like, basically the most proactive fire brigade member.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yep. Okay. And the captain trust me enough to have a key to the station, so all they had to do was come in. I even started the main tanker because it sometimes took a bit for it to warm up.

[Interviewer 2]

Wow.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It was an old Bedford truck. And then we would go off, do what we need to do, and again, felt important, felt alive, felt as if I belonged.

[Interviewer]

So this was a fire you lit?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And you got to the station first, you got all this stuff, all the equipment out, you got the big truck moving. And do you remember the other guys arriving and being like, yeah, yep, mate, you're doing really well. Good job, you know. Bravo. Do you remember that?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

How did that make you feel?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Oh, I felt on top of the world.

[Interviewer]

Because.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Because not that we were going to a fire, it's just that I was now with the guys and I felt like they were part of my family.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, you were part of a team.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. And I felt like I was valued.

[Interviewer]

And you didn't feel any guilt? Like the sense of guilt that you lit this fire didn't affect the pleasure that you were deriving from this camaraderie?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, no is the simple answer to that.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What was the deal with this fire? Did it become pretty big?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It took us about an hour or so to contain it and extinguish it. So it wasn't overly big, but it was big enough.

[Interviewer]

It was a front of maybe. How long?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Oh, I'd say no more than a kilometre.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

But still, you started with a few matches out the window of your car, just lighting matches and throwing them out.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And then if they caught, they caught. If they didn't, they didn't. But I went through that process.

[Interviewer]

And then half an hour later, there was a fire front of a kilometer long.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yep.

[Interviewer]

I mean, that's.

[Interviewer 2]

That's pretty crazy.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So after you'd lit this first fire, when you got home, do you remember, like, you were buzzed?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah, now I was. The adrenaline was pumping and I was constant chatter.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Everything was just verbal diaries, how I'd call it.

[Interviewer]

So excited. It's all exciting.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

Right. You're on a high. This is a natural high.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely. There was no drugs involved, Nothing like that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but. Okay, so when you got home from this fire, do you remember having any conscious thought? Like, that was pretty good, I suppose.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Reflecting back on it. I liked the feeling of importance, feeling I've done something good for the community, felt like I belonged To.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

So that environment really changed my Persona and who I felt I was. Outside that environment. All the negative thoughts came in, all the self loathing came in, all the anger came out. So when I was in the environment, in the fire brigade and going to the vase and all that, I didn't have the anger. I felt valued, I felt part of the team and all of that.

[Interviewer]

So you kind of found like a band aid. If you lit a fire, you'd get to hang out with the guys. You'd get a like a positive feedback response and it would alleviate the pain that you felt.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

That's dangerous.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It was an escape. Yeah, that's what it was.

[Interviewer]

So it wasn't actually about the fire. Could you have got a kick in any sort of way that brought you with the guys together?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, could have, but I didn't know how.

[Interviewer]

Okay, sure.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Whereas I knew the fire would.

[Interviewer]

So you. I guess what I'm asking is, are you a fire bug? You know, like a pyromaniac? Is there something about fire that draws you in?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

You know what, back then people labeled me that.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I haven't touched fire in over 35 years.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you haven't lit a single campfire?

[Interviewer 2]

No, no.

[Interviewer]

Is that deliberate?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It's the way life went.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I guess. What I want to really establish your sort of like career of lighting fires. You know, like, we've had this first one, but then how did it become a pattern? Like, was that a slow thing or did you very quickly just decide, I'm going to do this every time I feel sad?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, it really depended, first of all, my mental side of me, how I was feeling and what was going on. Often if I'd either had an argument with mum or my sister or brother, I'd want to escape.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And that's often times when I would go and light a fire.

[Interviewer]

Wow. So you were treating it like serial arson for you was the equivalent of someone else having a bad day at work and they'd go and have a glass of wine. At the end of the day you'd go and light a bushfire. That's crazy.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, it was the only mechanism that I could that I thought was available.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

In total, how many bushfires do you think you lit?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Obviously, fires jump around.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay, sure.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

So I may have lit one here. However, three others may have as a result of that, started over here. So in that regard, 10 would have been started, but it could have easily gone to hundreds.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. And obviously 10 times we went out as a group.

[Interviewer]

Did you I mean, I got to ask, did anyone ever die in the fires that you lit?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Not that I'm aware of. Some of them became big fires, but they were out in the bush, they weren't in civilization. So the death of people may not have occurred. The death of animals, on the other hand, is likely.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You think you really hurt some animals?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Possibly, possibly. Do you ever think. Do I reflect back on that? Yeah. To be truthful, no. Obviously fire does impact animals because it's their environment they live in. So from that perspective, I really didn't think about that side of things. Did I want to hurt people? Definitely not.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Did I hurt people? Maybe not physically. Possibly mentally.

[Interviewer]

I mean, you scared a lot of people.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

Bushfires are scary.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

Did they ever. Did any of the bushfires you lit ever damage property or burn down houses?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

No, not that I'm a aware of. Or I can recollect at that point in time. And where I lived there was a number of state forests that nobody could build in anyway.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, of course. Was your fire lighting behavior getting riskier as you went along?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Oh, for sure, yeah, I would. Instead of doing it in the morning, I do it mid morning, afternoon when there's more people about.

[Interviewer]

Oh yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Like when you do it at 6 o' clock in the morning, there's less people around.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

If you do it at midday or 1 o' clock in the afternoon, there's a lot more people around.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

The likely chance of getting caught is greatly increased.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And I didn't have a four wheel drive. It was just a normal sedan.

[Interviewer]

This is your car.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Mum's car.

[Interviewer]

Your mum's car.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And I'd go for a drive. I could either go north, east, south or west. East, not so much because that's where a lot of the population was, but certainly north, south and west for sure.

[Interviewer]

Lots of bush.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Lots of bush.

[Interviewer]

You're in a town surrounded by forest.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer 2]

Wow.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And like that area were hundreds of kilometers.

[Interviewer 2]

Wow.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Hundreds of kilometers.

[Interviewer]

That sounds really picturesque.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Oh, it was absolutely beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so you take your mum's car out to these areas and then when you got there, what would you do?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, I'd look at spots. Now that's going up there along that ridge. It could go over there, but it would take care of all of this. So it may not necessarily be planned as such, but I looked at the terrain and see where I could do the most good.

[Interviewer]

Not damage.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, I looked at it that the bush needed the fire to rejuvenate.

[Interviewer 2]

Sure.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. Fire can be dangerous and can damage. I'm not that delusional, but in my mind and to I suppose justify it, I go, well, this area hasn't been burnt for 10 years. It needs to clear this bottom buildup so it can rejuvenate. Yeah, the easiest and best way to do that is with fire. In my respect, I was doing a community service.

[Interviewer]

But you must have still known somewhere in the back of your head it was dangerous and completely illegal.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Oh, absolutely.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Hey, we're going to take a quick.

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

Ad break, but please stick around because.

[Interviewer]

We'Ll be right back with more what.

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

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[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

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[Interviewer]

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[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

New 5G phone, enough.

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

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[Interviewer]

So when you were trying to light fires, you know, you said you'd go out to these places, you'd look around, you're like, oh, bit of potential over there. Then what would you do?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, I always have matches. Cigarette lighters were just too encumbersome, and I needed other stuff. Whereas with matches, I can either a card of matches or a box of matches. Didn't matter if it was a card. I could tear a couple of matches off, light it, light them all, throw it in the bush, drive away.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Would you stand around to watch occasionally?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Not often.

[Interviewer]

Just to make sure.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Just to make sure it wasn't a.

[Interviewer]

Sense of, like, power for you. You weren't like, look what I've created.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

No, no, no. Oh, yeah, that's me. I like it.

[Interviewer]

I mean, I gotta ask. Was there ever a sexual thing? Did you. Did you look at the fire and feel a bit Vibey?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Nope.

[Interviewer 2]

No.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

No. I suppose that was. I kind of say destroyed. But it certainly hindered, like, you're When I was raped.

[Interviewer]

Your sex drive?

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you wouldn't watch you get back in your car, you'd drive away?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, the day I got caught, I actually watched to see if it took light and to see if it was growing, and it did.

[Interviewer]

What was it about that day that made you stay to watch?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It was just a nice day. I really don't know why. And to be truthful, I've really never explored why either. And I can tell you, the truck that saw me, it was a council truck.

[Interviewer]

And so they just happened to drive past on.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I happened to be driving past Forest Road at the time.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I've come out of the forest road to go onto the main road to go back home.

[Interviewer 2]

Yep.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And they come down the hill, they saw me turn out of the forest road.

[Interviewer]

Was there wisps of smoke in the air at this point?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Not that. Not they could see.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

But they still thought it was strange that you're coming out of there.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Exactly. Right.

[Interviewer]

It was memorable for them.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Correct.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

So they must have then taken the number plate of the car.

[Interviewer]

Do you remember thinking to yourself, shit, I've been seen. Like, did it. Did it stand out to you?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It didn't. I didn't think, oh, crap, I've been found out.

[Interviewer]

So you were seen and then you went home.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

And the reason you went home was because you were gonna wait for the siren.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

So you could act all natural and, you know, swagger across the road, get the trucks ready. Okay. This was. This is your plan? So you're waiting at home.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yep.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And then the captain calls me on the phone, and he said, can you come up? I said, sure. And I went up to him at his business. He said, well, I have to take you to the police station. Why? You've been caught doing what? So I began to question where this was going.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And he said, you've been lighting fires. No, I haven't. You've been seen. We have to take you down to the police station. And obviously I cried.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Because I became emotional.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And I thought, this is gonna devastate Mum.

[Interviewer]

It's nice. It's kind of nice that your mum was your first thought, like your mum's welfare.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. So I went down to the police station, and that's, I suppose, the first time I had someone see me for me.

[Interviewer 2]

Howdy, man.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

In that they saw through all the bullcrap, all the blockages that I provided. A lot of people go around life showing a mask they want people to see and not necessarily to see. Their true self. And the policeman that I was speaking to, he went through all of that. He took every single mask off and got to me and found that I was this scared little boy.

[Interviewer]

What did he say that cracked you open?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, I suppose he's relentless. Accusations.

[Interviewer 2]

Right.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And like, you need to think that this is nine days before my 18th birthday. And obviously, once I turn 18, I'm classified as an adult.

[Interviewer]

Right. He'd be charged as an adult.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. Which obviously scared me even more. And they said, we've got you, we can prove it was you. No, you can't. Being 70. No, you can't.

[Interviewer 2]

No, you can't.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yes, we can. And then they laid out what information they had.

[Interviewer]

And what did they say?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Well, they said, well, first of all, your mum's car was seen. We've got the number plate. We can prove that it's your mum's.

[Interviewer 2]

Yep.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

We haven't spoken to your mum yet, but we will to ensure that you had permission to use her car. And we also found where you lit the fires. And they said you were seen coming out of the forest. We also know that fire did occur in that forest shortly after you left it.

[Interviewer]

Did they go and put it out?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Oh, the fire brigade did, yes.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So it didn't just like burn itself out. And it wasn't a dud fire.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

It turned into a big fire.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

However, I wasn't there.

[Interviewer 2]

Right.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Because I was with the police.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Do you wanted to be out with the boys putting it out.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

So I went to the magistrate and the magistrate wanted a psych eval done on me. So a psychologist came and I spoke to them for several hours and they made a recommendation that instead of going to jail, I go into therapy. And I also had the people who look after criminals, there's a particular department that does that. I had the head of that department also say that jail may not be the best option for me.

[Interviewer]

And did they make that assessment based on the fact that you seemed really upset, really emotional?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. And they wanted to obviously understand what was going on.

[Interviewer]

You hadn't mentioned your sexual assault at this time?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

No, I didn't mention the sexual assault to the police at all. That came out in therapy.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

This is like court ordained therapy.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Now, the court ordained that I go to therapy for six months.

[Interviewer 2]

Yep.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Five years later, I finish, wow, okay. So I was actually in therapy for five years.

[Interviewer 2]

Was.

[Interviewer]

I mean, how close did you come in court to going to prison?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

The solicitor that I had, he said, if you see a policeman over There you're going to jail. The case before me, a policeman was standing over there and that person went to jail. When it was my turn, I had to look over there and there was no policeman. Fingers crossed. I still didn't know whether or not it would be the case. And after the court case, the magistrate said that I'm not sending you to jail, but you are going to therapy and you are going to do community service.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And after I completed my court community service, I then continued with my counselling because my counsellor, I felt, was my guardian angel who come down to help me.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah.

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

Why is that?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

We just clicked. We just hit it off.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

And he understood you?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I felt he did. And there were times in our sessions he would say three words and then there'll be no further words spoken in the session because he would press one of my buttons which prevented me to talk.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Eventually those buttons didn't react and I was able to continue talking. And it. The stuff that I learned from him back then, I still use today when things don't go right because life happens.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I haven't been in a situation like that previously in this day and age, and I never will be. I'll never put myself in that position. I know the signs and I know how to deal with it moving forward. It was a part of my life that was, I suppose, a turning point and a learning point in that I began to learn who I was in who I wanted to be. I've always wanted to help help the community in any way I can. Now, back then, people will say, oh, that was destructive way of doing it. It's all I knew, though. I didn't have insight. I didn't have hindsight either. So I coped with it the best way I thought I could.

[Interviewer 2]

Yep.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Now I have heard over the years that my friend had passed away.

[Interviewer 2]

Oh, yeah?

[Interviewer]

What from?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Apparently he was bashed.

[Interviewer]

That's interesting.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's a little window into the world that he was living in.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. And apparently he was bashed to death. I don't know the full details of that or whether or not it's true.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

But that's what I heard.

[Interviewer]

I was thinking, you know, when you told the story of your sexual assault, it's like this is such a little window into this horrible world of potentially child abuse and just the violence that these guys. Because you don't just come up with that kind of behavior by yourself. It's role modeled from someone else. So what were their stepfathers or their brothers or their friends? What does it say?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely. And most probably, yeah. Maybe 10 years ago, I actually wrote a letter to him.

[Interviewer 2]

Did you?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

What did you say?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Explained to him how my life turned out because of his actions.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And when I finished it, it was something like 15 pages long.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

And I then burnt it.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you didn't send it to him?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

No, no, no.

[Interviewer]

That wasn't the point of it.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It was for me.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

To get it out and release it to the world.

[Interviewer 2]

Wow.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

So that I didn't have to carry the burden anymore.

[Interviewer]

Did that work? Did it help?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah, it did, actually.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It was like a switch being turned off in that I didn't have to carry the guilt anymore because obviously through that time, I thought I was responsible.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

That's fire.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

But the burning of it is a symbolizing of release.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Let us just release to the atmosphere. Let's just go. These days I can talk about it, no problem at all. Occasionally I might get emotional, but that's understandable as well.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It's human. It's being human.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

If I didn't show emotion, there's a lot more wrong than right. However, I know now that it is a part of my life. If my story can even help one person understand their story, then I've done well.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And that's why I wanted to talk to you. Because I think on the one hand. On the one hand, arsonists are held in such low public esteem. Every summer we have all these bushfires and we talk about arsonists on Channel seven and Channel nine, and they're just. They're like public enemy number one and. Cause I know you. I know your story.

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

I know that there's more.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Always. There's a lot more to it.

[Interviewer]

There's usually more to that story.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can I ask, when you got charged, I'm guessing you became kind of the talk of the town. I'm guessing.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can you tell me about that?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

It was plastered on the front page of the newspaper.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

This is the local paper.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Local paper.

[Interviewer]

Your name, your face.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Not my face, was my name. And the big banner headline, arsonist Court. Obviously, as a result of being charged and going through the court system, I no longer could be part of the fire brigade.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So it cut you off from your support.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

That was taken away from me, even though I still lived across the road from it.

[Interviewer]

Right. So it's like breaking up with someone you've loved and then just seeing them walk down the street in front of you all the time.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Yeah. And you know what? That was hard. However, the mental health team that was behind me and supporting me helped me get over that. And that's taken a long time to achieve. And it's not something that is done on a whim either. It takes time, patience, and dedication.

[Interviewer]

You got to do the work, as the old saying goes.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Absolutely. And if you decide not to, then how can you be better?

[Interviewer]

Is that your advice for anyone who's watching or listening and thinking, you know, I'm behaving in some pretty destructive behavior, but I just can't face the actual thing.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Reach out to somebody you trust.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Whether that is a counsellor, mental health professional, or your best friend. If they're a true friend, they take you as you are, regardless. And these days, I'm happy who I am.

[Interviewer 2]

Good.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

I enjoy me. I enjoy being me. And I'm glad I didn't take any drastic steps, because if I did, we wouldn't be discussing it today.

[Interviewer]

Well, I'm. I'm so glad that we've been able to discuss this today. So, Steve, thank you so much. Thanks for joining me.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

You're welcome.

[Julian Morgans (Podcast Host)]

Today's episode was produced by Rachel Tuffery. Ellie Dickey is our Internet. Jimmy Saunders did our theme music. Our cover art is by Rich Akers. And this whole thing has been a super ill production.

[Steve (Bushfire Arsonist)]

Dude.

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