Julian Morgans (2:55)

Hey, before we jump in, just some quick housekeeping. You might have noticed that we've got new artwork. We just wanted to inject a bit of freshness into the show. So we've got this new art that reflects some of our classic episodes. That's the first bit of news. The second bit of news is that we're now offering subscriptions. If you're not already on board, you should consider signing up. You'll get a bonus episode every week. And in fact, this week's bonus episode is a banger. You should sign up just to get this one. It's all about the world of cargo cults. So cargo cults, if you haven't heard that phrase before, it usually refers to Pacific Islanders that started worshiping American Air Force crews as religious deities during World War II. So, you know these guys, they would drop package parachute loads of cargo into these isolated villages and people would assume that the planes were supernatural beings and they'd build fake runways as kind of like offerings to the airplane gods and they'd even build mock airplanes out of bamboo. It's this really interesting little wrinkle in history and we're going to get into it just for subscribers. Now onto today's episode, which is for everyone. This honestly feels like something out of an action movie. This week we're going high octane with a true crime case from 1970s Australia. We're going to be talking about school kidnappings. That's right, plural kidnappings. This was a thing that happened a few times throughout the 1970s and someone would take a whole classroom or even just a whole school that take them hostage and they'd demand money. There was actually a big case in the US called the Chowchilla kidnapping. This was in 1976, but it also happened here in Australia twice. And both times the kidnapping was committed by the same guy. So it started in 1972 when a man named Edwin John Eastwood held up a one teacher school with a friend of his in the rural town of Faraday in Victoria. Six young girls and their teacher were held for a $1 million ransom. But luckily no one was harmed and the two perpetrators ended up in prison. But one of them escaped. In December of 1976, Eastwood escaped the maximum security Geelong Jail with another inmate using a stolen butter knife to dig a tunnel through the prison walls. And two months later, he held up another rural school, this time the Warreen Primary School, which is a tiny single Room building nestled in the bush. And there nine students ranging in ages from grades one to six were taken prisoner at gunpoint along with their teacher, 20 year old Rob Hunter. And our guest today is that teacher, Rob Hunter. And he actually, he still works as a teacher. He's now a counsellor at a primary school in Victoria. So you're going to hear the sounds of kids at recess in the background of today's interview. He was taking the interview from an office at the school, so I guess that provides some thematically appropriate atmosphere. But his story is truly wild. It features an armed hold up, a car chase and there's a big daring escape at the end. And this is also something I think is really nice about it. You don't have to worry. I'm going to tell you right here, everyone survives. All of the kids, they were fine, no one was even injured. So you can just enjoy the roller coaster without too much anxiety worrying about those poor kids. Okay, so let's get into it. This is the story of the Warrine School kidnapping. And here is Rob Hunter. Hey Rob, welcome to the show.

Rob Hunter (6:37)

Thanks Julian.

Julian Morgans (6:39)

Thanks for joining me today. I would like to start with a bit of your backstory. Where did you grow up and did you always want to be a teacher?

Rob Hunter (6:50)

Yeah, good question. I, I grew up in northern Victoria, a little town called Kyabram and a very good upbringing. I'd say I'm one of five boys and grew up on a farm, had lots of good friends and ended up at Kyobram High School. School captain, year 12 and loved footy, loved cricket, had a lot of connections in the community and yeah, pretty ideal upbringing, I reckon.

Julian Morgans (7:22)

It sounds nice. Sounds outdoorsy.

Rob Hunter (7:25)

Yeah, yeah, cool.

Julian Morgans (7:28)

And what was it that drew you to career in education?

Rob Hunter (7:32)

Yeah, liked children and I liked the idea of having an impact on people's lives, children's lives in particular. And I had one of my older brothers who was a schoolteacher, so. And there was no room on the farm as well, so yeah, school teaching became a good option.

Julian Morgans (7:55)

Okay, and when you, so you finished studying, you were how old?

Rob Hunter (8:01)

Yeah, 20. Finished three years of teacher training. Started at 17 and finished at 20.

Julian Morgans (8:09)

Wow. Okay, so tell me about how you were assigned to work in a little town in it's Gippsland, isn't it?

Rob Hunter (8:17)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was assigned to a one teacher school, a rural school. I was the headmaster. Yep. And I was placed at Wooreen, just out of Leongatha, Nine children. Headmaster? No, PE teacher. I was the PE teacher. I was the art teacher. I Was the cleaner. It was me. I was on the Pat Malone with nine children.

Julian Morgans (8:45)

Were you. Were you thrilled to be by yourself? You know, sort of the king of the. Of your little domain, or would you have liked a bit of company?

Rob Hunter (8:52)

Well, I was quite happy. Once again, my older brother had paved the way for me. He had a couple of different rural schools and I'd visited him in those schools, seeing him in action. One teacher with all of his children. Yeah, I was happy. Three grade six kids, two grade five, grade four or grade three, and two little grade ones. That was a big happy family.

Julian Morgans (9:26)

Okay, is this a. You don't hear much of this anymore. Do one teacher school still exist?

Rob Hunter (9:34)

No, and largely because of this story. Really, it became unsafe?

Julian Morgans (9:42)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're pretty vulnerable. I mean, it's. You're not just vulnerable from sort of outside attack, but just as like a, you know, one teacher versus that many students by yourself.

Rob Hunter (9:53)

It.

Julian Morgans (9:54)

It just means that it has to go to plan, otherwise you're immediately in trouble.

Rob Hunter (9:58)

Yeah. Yeah. And there's lots of legalities today around having a second adult wherever there are children in school. So. Yeah.

Julian Morgans (10:11)

Okay. So I understand the, the hijacking happened nine days into your tenure at Warring Primary, but how were the first nine days before that?

Rob Hunter (10:25)

Terrific. They were really good. The children were gorgeous. Happy to work, happy to play, good relationships, respectful. I was heading to have a good year with these nine children. Yeah.

Julian Morgans (10:44)

Okay. And you were enjoying your time as a teacher?

Rob Hunter (10:46)

Yeah, Yep, yep, yep. Loving it. The school council was supportive. We'd had a barbecue on the Thursday night prior to this being particular Monday that this happened. Everyone was welcome and met all the parents and they met the new teacher. Yeah, it was looking good.

Julian Morgans (11:12)

Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. So nine days in, you get to. To school one day and you know, something happens. Can you walk me through that day?

Rob Hunter (11:27)

Yeah. February 14th, St. Valentine's Day, 1977. Arrived at school normally quarter to eight, eight o'. Clock. Children arrived soon after and a good morning. And then I let them out for recess at 10:30am they came racing back inside moments later, saying, Mr. Hunter, Mr. Hunter, there's a man outside with a gun. I didn't think too much of it and I went to the door thinking that there was somebody wanting to shoot a rabbit or I didn't know what, but I was forcefully met by this balaclava hooded man, puffing and panting and perspiring profusely, pointing a gun directly at my chest, saying, get back inside or I'll shoot you.

Julian Morgans (12:21)

My God.

Rob Hunter (12:22)

Gosh, Yeah, I did what he said.

Julian Morgans (12:25)

Yeah, yeah. Were you terrified or did it feel a bit surreal in those first few.

Rob Hunter (12:30)

Minutes, the first seconds I thought, this is a bit of a madman. And then minutes later I real. Gosh, we're in trouble here. Palpitations, hot sweat myself, strong desire to go to the toilet. Yeah, I knew we were in trouble.

Julian Morgans (12:57)

Had you ever been in a life or death situation before?

Rob Hunter (13:02)

No. I was as green as. I was as green as they come. Julian. Never. I'd had a cap gun as a child and dad had a rifle to shoot the odd thing on the farm, but I'd never been in a. In a forceful situation like this. I played football, you know, very strong contact sport, and I was very happy to play those sorts of games, but this sort of confrontation was out of my realm.

Julian Morgans (13:35)

Yeah, right, so. So in those first few minutes, we was your game plan to just, like, do what he says, bide your time and hope for the best?

Rob Hunter (13:46)

Yeah, a bit like that. Do what he says. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Three bags full, sir type thing. But what can I do here? There's a phone in the office. Wonder if we could get to the phone. Can I leave a note? Can get one of the kids perhaps nick off. He hadn't counted the children. I was pretty sure that he didn't know. There was nine children exactly. And there was little Danny, who was sitting right near the front door at the only entrance and exit to the building. And his auntie lived only about 150 meters down the road. I thought, Danny, you could go, run, go. But Danny didn't get the message. And Eastwood. Eastwood looked at me and said, hey, don't you do anything silly, pal.

Julian Morgans (14:45)

Wow.

Rob Hunter (14:45)

You know what will happen? Yeah.

Julian Morgans (14:47)

Okay. And Eastwood was. Was the. The adversary. Eastwood was the gunman.

Rob Hunter (14:54)

Yes. Edwin. Edwin John Eastwood. Yeah.

Julian Morgans (14:59)

So did you, you know, from your read, because you wouldn't have known anything about this man, but just looking at him, what could you kind of assess about the kind of person he was just by looking at him?

Rob Hunter (15:10)

Well, he looked. He was rough. He was wearing dark clothes. He was solidly built. Quite a bit older than me, I think he was. I was 20, he was only 25 or 6, but he was a big man. And there was no way that I would have been able to overpower him. And I wouldn't have done that in front of the children anyway. So I felt like, you know, just cooperate, be nice, do what you can to keep the peace with the children. Because the children were looking at me, I could sort of sense. Mr. Hana, do something. What the hell is this bloke going to do? Because he stands in front of us and says to the children, I'm just going to take you away for a little while until my demands are met. I'm not a bad man. I'm not going to hurt you. Just do what I say. These sorts of platitudes really. And the kids start asking questions. How long are you going to take us away? Why are you taking us away? Where are you going? Have you done this before? So, as you know, he had done this before. He was an escapee at this point, and he'd already done the Faraday kidnapping in 1972 with Mary Gibbs. And I didn't know. I knew that story quite well, but I didn't twig at that point. It wasn't until much later in the day that we had some accomplice, some extra support, had some other people that ended up getting kidnapped with. With us because of circumstances. One of the ladies said, hey, you know who this is, don't you? And I said, no. Who is it? Yeah. Eastwood, Faraday kidnapper.

Julian Morgans (17:03)

Wow. Okay, okay, so. So back in. In the schoolhouse in Warrain, he pulled you inside. There's. You got nine kids. You've told Danny to go and tell his aunt, but Danny didn't get it. So now what, what's happening?

Rob Hunter (17:19)

Chains came out of the bag and we're all chained up. A dog chain with padlocks and keys. I had two hands chained together. The children, just one hand. And we're all joined up in one long line, chained together. Chain gang.

Julian Morgans (17:46)

Okay, so you're. So you're all chained together. I mean, we. Like. My first thought in that sort of situation is like, can I get this chains off? Or like, can I wriggle my wrist out? Were you trying to sort of experiment with that?

Rob Hunter (18:02)

No, I was pretty tight. There was no. I didn't sense there was an opportunity to get my hands out of those chains at that point. But he had to leave us for a moment because he had hidden his car or his utility truck around the corner in a side road. And he chained me then to the wall, to a strong bag hook that, that was well, bedded in the. In the wall. And so I couldn't move. And the children, I thought, okay, here's another opportunity. Maybe one of the kids can go and make that phone call. But he had ripped the guts out of the speaker. Kids go outside.

Julian Morgans (18:59)

Say it again of the phone.

Rob Hunter (19:01)

Yeah, yeah. So it's 1977. So those the phones that had a. The mouthpiece had a screw on top with a little microphone inside and that got ripped out. And he put it in his pocket so the phone was rendered useless. Kids, there's a main road, Lee and Gatha, Yarrigan Road, that goes past and cars going past regularly. Kids go outside and wave to the cars. But they said, Mr. Hunter, no, he'll come back and shoot us. Okay? Don't worry about that. So at that point, I'm thinking, I can't. What can I do? Well, there was an electric clock just near me. My hands were. I couldn't move my hands at this point. But it was an electric clock that I was. Later on, after he unchained me and turned his back around, I pulled the plug out. That was when he got his truck backed into the school.

Julian Morgans (20:16)

Okay, and your thinking was you'd stop the clock?

Rob Hunter (20:20)

Yeah. So the clock stopped five past 11. And when police arrived, five o' clock that afternoon, they put two and two together. Aha. That all adds up.

Julian Morgans (20:36)

Okay. That was pretty. Pretty fast thinking from you.

Rob Hunter (20:38)

Yeah, well, it's. It's my only claim to any heroic thing in this whole story, Julian. Fin. The rest of it was. Yes, yes, yes, sir. Yes, sir. That was the only thing I did, really.

Julian Morgans (20:54)

That's understandable. It's completely understandable. How were the kids through all this? Were they pretty scared?

Rob Hunter (21:00)

Well, they must have been, but they were as calm as you can imagine, really. We chatted while he's getting his vehicle. It's okay. We'll just do what he says, guys. No tears. No tears. At this point, when he came back with a vehicle, he took my chains off and he said, I've changed my mind with you, teach. Oh, God. And I thought, what's he going to do? Is he just going to pull a bullet through my head and take the kids off? That was what I thought. But he blindfolded me, gagged me and tied my hands behind. Behind my back. Ropes around my waist and separated me from the children then. And I was. He put me on the floor in the front seat and the children were tied up, chained up in the back. In the. In the tray.

Julian Morgans (22:06)

Okay, so this is a ute. So I'm imagining that when this ute drives past, you can see all these kids chained up in the back, right?

Rob Hunter (22:12)

No, there was a canopy on the back, so. Yeah. Covered in a few side windows, though. Yes. And I. I thought, oh, maybe, maybe a vehicle could see them. And he. Eastwood's words to the children were, don't you trot don't you wave. You keep your heads down kids or you know what will happen.

Julian Morgans (22:33)

Hey, we're just going to stop here for a quick ad break, but stick around. We'll be right back with more what it was like.

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Julian Morgans (25:56)

Okay, so he drove you out of there.

Rob Hunter (26:00)

Yep. Drove like a maniac out the school and headed north along a road called the Grand Ridge Road, which follows the top of the Strzelecki Ranges through Moobu north all the way to Yarram in South Gippsland. It was a long drive.

Julian Morgans (26:22)

Yeah, what's that, like maybe two and a half hours?

Rob Hunter (26:26)

Yeah. Well, we stopped and posted the ransom note, which I didn't realize was a ransom note at Merbu north. And then we drove for another good hour and a half, maybe two more hours. And then we had this accident. We ran into a logging truck remote a top of the Stresliki Ranges. Just a dirt road. Basically the only vehicles that would use it in a day is a logging truck. And we're going around a hairpin bend and the timing is just immaculate. Perfect in a sense because a second or two later we would have not collided with this timber Jinga. We couldn't get around. We rammed into the back wheels and we got pushed over the edge of the road. And this is a precipice, this is a steep. And our back wheel is hanging over the edge. And we should have gone over the edge, catapulted down this steep precipice except There was a 4 inch square wooden post embedded firmly in the, in the ground. And that anchored us, stopping us from going over the edge. But this became a game changer. This moment, which could have killed us all, became the game changer because the driver of that truck, Robin Smith, he was a hero.

Julian Morgans (28:12)

He was a hero.

Rob Hunter (28:13)

Okay, not then he wasn't there. And he probably was in a sense because he just like me, he got kidnapped as well, chained up like the children had been. And with his brother. His brother was in the, in the truck that day, having a day with his, with his older brother.

Julian Morgans (28:34)

Okay.

Rob Hunter (28:34)

And there. So I've all of a sudden got a couple of mates.

Julian Morgans (28:39)

Well, hold on. Before we get to that, I just want to, so I just want to understand. He basically had this car accident because he was driving like a maniac the whole time. Like he, he wasn't a cool, calm and collected crook, this he was. He was stressed and he was just gunning it.

Rob Hunter (28:55)

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's a good summary. Not very sensible. Not very sensible. Skidding around corners, planning it. Going as hard as he can up and down hills. We weren't safe. Yeah, he was an excitable man. That's right. Yeah.

Julian Morgans (29:17)

Okay. And then you come around the corner and you come up behind this logging truck and just plow into the back of it.

Rob Hunter (29:23)

No, well, the logging truck's coming the other way, you see, it's filling up the whole road to get around a hairpin bend. It's a long vehicle and we couldn't stop in time. And he just plows into the back wheel and we're all knocked. And the children, everyone's. There's no one broke anything, but there was a lot of bruises. I banged my head and my shoulder against the dash and Eastwood can't get out of the car. He's jammed in. The doors are all smashed or jam. The radiator was hissing. And the vehicles, he turns the vehicle off, can't go anywhere. It's, it's, it's, it's wrecked. Yeah. So.

Julian Morgans (30:16)

And you were, you were blinded, you know, you had a thing tied around your eyes.

Rob Hunter (30:21)

Yeah, yeah. Had no idea where on earth I was. He eventually gets the kid to get the children out of the car, out of the utility. He has to smash because the back of the. He can't get to the back because it's over the precipice. He has to smash the side windows and the children climb out through those broken glass. The blood. Kids have got cuts all over him because he smashed the glass. It's stupid really. And then I. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm still on the floor. I've got no idea what's going on really, except I'm hearing things and that's one of the things I hear. Straight after the accident, one of the children says, don't move, guys, we're going to go over the edge.

Julian Morgans (31:13)

That's not a reassuring thing to hear when you can't see anything.

Rob Hunter (31:16)

No.

Julian Morgans (31:17)

Oh God. So you must have been feeling pretty pessimistic at this point.

Rob Hunter (31:21)

Yeah, well, I had no idea up until that point. I was thinking where two and a half hours into this we are going of. We've all vomited. I've vomited, made an absolute mess of Myself all over the seat. Children have been vomiting and crying in the back, but he just pushed on.

Julian Morgans (31:45)

And was that to. Was that from fear or were you just all getting a bit car sick in the back of this?

Rob Hunter (31:50)

Yeah, yeah. Karthik. Predominantly Karthik. I think potentially there was a bit of fear of. Well, there was certainly fear, but whether that contributed to the sickness or not, I don't know.

Julian Morgans (32:03)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm hearing a few reasons to throw up. Oh, yeah. All right, so. So you crashed in his logging truck. And he gets. Manages to get the kids out. So how does he approach this. This truck has got two other loggers in it. Right. How does he approach those guys?

Rob Hunter (32:20)

Yeah, so with. He climbs out his window. He has to. He winds the window down, climbs out that way because he can't get out the door. Pulls the gun on Robin and his brother David.

Julian Morgans (32:33)

He's the two loggers.

Rob Hunter (32:34)

Yeah. And gets them. Just do what I say or I'll shoot you. The same scenario, really, when you got a gun, if you. You got to respect it. So on the ground, on the roads, flat out on your face. Chains came off the children and then went on to these two loggers. And he chained that to the logging. The back of the logging truck.

Julian Morgans (33:05)

Wow. What a shock for those two guys. They've just survived a car accident or they've just seen this ute just plow into the back of them.

Rob Hunter (33:11)

Yeah.

Julian Morgans (33:11)

And then they're thinking, oh, we've got to help these guys. And then the whole thing gets turned around when the driver of this car isn't not just alive, but he's got a gun and he's, you know, he's aggressive.

Rob Hunter (33:20)

Yeah. And so it's the element of surprise, isn't it? Yeah, you hear about that all the way. Just total surprise. And you just. Instinct kicks in. You just do what you're told.

Julian Morgans (33:36)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. Okay, so what happens next?

Rob Hunter (33:41)

So I'm still on the floor. He then leans in and unties my ropes and unblindfolds me. And he'd already taken the gag off because I. To vomit. I had to. Well, no, he'd taken the gag off so he could have a conversation with me. Sort of an hour into the trip, ask. Talking to me about whatever. Do you reckon I'll get much of a ransom for you guys? And I'm thinking, what's he talking about? I didn't even. Couldn't write that that moment. I didn't even know what a ransom was. I'm a naive green 20 year old who doesn't know anything about what it means to be kidnapped. That word wasn't on my, you know, it wasn't even in my vocabulary. Yeah, but, yeah, so he, he gets me out of the vehicle and chains me up next to Robin and David. And Robin looks at me and says, what the hell's going on here? Who is this? But who are you? Where are you from? What's going on?

Julian Morgans (34:52)

Yeah, valid questions. What did you say?

Rob Hunter (34:56)

Well, yeah, I don't really know what's going on either, Rob, but I don't know whether I knew his name at that point or not. But we're from Wooroon, just our land gather. I said, this is my school. Yeah.

Julian Morgans (35:12)

And that blew his mind.

Rob Hunter (35:14)

Yeah, yeah.

Julian Morgans (35:15)

Oh, God. Did you and, and did you know anything about the details of his ransom? Like, we might as well, we should just fill everyone in at this point, you know, what was this guy trying to achieve?

Rob Hunter (35:26)

I didn't know. I don't think I even understood that he had posted the ransom note. I knew he posted a letter, which I think I probably interpreted as threats, and that would have been all. It wasn't until over this whole scenario the next day that I understood what had actually happened. But the ransom demands were just ridiculous. Robert Boland, who had been his accomplice at Faraday, was in jail and he wanted Robert Boland to be released. And so he then asks for 17 different prisoners, including Boland, to be released from Pentridge Prison. Okay, that was, in my point of view, that was the biggest one. But then there was million dollars worth of used US currency. There was getaway vehicles, there was drugs, there was ammunition, there was guns, all those sorts of things.

Julian Morgans (36:45)

Yeah, he asked for what, like a kilo of heroin or something, which seems, seems like the kind of thing that the police aren't just going to give away.

Rob Hunter (36:54)

There was no way that he was ever going to get what he demanded. And yet the threat was, mind if my demands aren't met, I will shoot all of the hostages.

Julian Morgans (37:11)

Okay, all right, so now you're, you're, you're still in captivity, but with these truck drivers as well. So what happens next?

Rob Hunter (37:19)

Yeah, so about 15, 20 minutes later, another truck comes along. It's Robin's second truck driven by Greg Peterson. And Greg Peterson has picked up a hitchhiker on his route. And same scenario, Eastwood approaches Greg and says, sorry, there's been an accident, can you help us? Then pulls the gun on him, basically chains them up next to Robin and David and I. So now there's five of us. Five men, nine children. And we're all thinking, give up now, mate, just go home. Yeah.

Julian Morgans (38:09)

This is a big crowd.

Rob Hunter (38:11)

Yeah. And I guess I was starting to feel a little bit safer as well, a little bit more secure at this point. There's five of us. Surely he's not gonna shoot five adult men.

Julian Morgans (38:25)

Yeah, yeah. Your chances of surviving this are just incrementally increasing. Just sort of like diffused the pressure on you.

Rob Hunter (38:32)

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Julian Morgans (38:35)

Okay, and just so I'm clear, so you're, you're in the back of the truck now. Where are you all?

Rob Hunter (38:40)

Yeah, we're all face down on the road.

Julian Morgans (38:43)

Okay.

Rob Hunter (38:44)

Chained together. Chained to the back of the timber. Jinga.

Julian Morgans (38:48)

Okay, this guy doesn't sound like he has a plan. He's just really making it up as he goes along.

Rob Hunter (38:55)

There's an axe. There's an axe in Robin's truck. So Eastwood grabs it. He actually wrecks Robin's two way radio so that if things go bad, no one can call for help. Grabs the axe and we're thinking, what are you going to do with that? And he said, well, I've done this before. He reckons I'll put a hole in the boot of the vehicle that comes along so that the children can breathe in the boot. Wow. Thankfully a sedan, little car didn't come along. We waited for another hour for another vehicle to come along. And what vehicle is going to come along that we're going to be all able to stay together? Because if we couldn't stay together, I hate to think what might have happened, really. Someone might have got a bullet through their head. Two beautiful women who I call angels came along in a camper van. Combi Volkswagen camper van. And we all able to pile into that. He pulls the gun on the ladies. Sorry, girls, I'm going to use your camper van. And so now there's going to be 17. I think my math is correct. 17 people in one little combi van. And once again he turns around and we're heading off again in the same direction. Rolling around. You can, you know, when you're overloaded, you feel a vehicle. That was what it was like. And he was driving too fast.

Julian Morgans (40:48)

Still driving too fast. Hadn't learned his lesson.

Rob Hunter (40:52)

No.

Julian Morgans (40:52)

Oh, God. Okay. And these women were sort of, you know, on holiday. They were traveling.

Rob Hunter (40:58)

Two 50 year olds about women who were having a camping, camping trip. Muriel Depenau and Joy Edward. Joy just lost her husband and they were having a therapy trip. Really? And Joy says when she had the gun pointed at her. She didn't care. She could have got shot and she wouldn't have minded. So she wasn't too stressed. Wow.

Julian Morgans (41:28)

Okay.

Rob Hunter (41:29)

She was in grief still from having lost her husband. Yeah.

Julian Morgans (41:32)

There's some unexpected solace there. Something interesting that just occurred to me about this story is the way that it's all of these little slices of life, you know, these sort of disconnected stories, these sort of just humans going about their lives who get bound together in this one narrative with no expectation that they're going to end up in this. It's. I don't know, It's. It's horrible for everyone involved. I imagine it was terrifying at the time, but just hearing the way that these people are doing this. These people are doing this. Here are some bloggers who had nothing to do. He was a hitchhiker in there, and now you're all in it together. It's bizarre.

Rob Hunter (42:11)

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Julian Morgans (42:14)

Okay, so now you're in this combi van and you're rocketing down the road. Walk me through the next couple of hours.

Rob Hunter (42:22)

Just followed this grand ridge road, then on, on and on and on through a little place called Karajung on the way to a hideout not too far from Woodside near Yarram in the Muljang State Forest. And he didn't go the direct route. He went around in a bit of a circle so that if someone had seen him, they wouldn't suspect exactly where he was. The Mounjiang State Forest is a thick, thick wooded forest. Lots of undergrowth, lots of tall trees. And he had a camping spot that he had set up ready to hide us in.

Julian Morgans (43:07)

Okay, and what did that camping spot look like?

Rob Hunter (43:10)

A few tarpaulins, a bit of water, a bit of food, a lot of cigarettes, a bit of chocolate. Not enough, really. Not enough to look after 17 people.

Julian Morgans (43:26)

Yeah, I mean, a bit of. A bit of water and chocolate's not gonna keep you. Keep you happy.

Rob Hunter (43:31)

No.

Julian Morgans (43:32)

Okay. And then he. Did he re. Chain you up.

Rob Hunter (43:36)

Yeah. So us blokes still chained. We remained chained for the rest of this time. And we got chained around a great, dirty, great big tree at this spot. The women bartered or bargained with him and said, don't chain us. We'll look after the kids for you. Which they did. And there was a certain amount of. I don't know, grace is probably not the right word, but there was a certain amount of cooperation happening with everybody. Us blokes were doing what he told us, and we were just waiting for an opportunity. Really to be able to overpower him or to do something.

Julian Morgans (44:31)

Was there a bit of an unspoken understanding between you guys that that was sort of what was happening?

Rob Hunter (44:40)

Well, a few little conversations. I said to Robyn at one stage, are we ever going to get out? We're going to be here forever? She said, no, no, we'll be right. We'll be saved. The police will be here before too long. So that sort of. That was encouraging. Robyn was a 25 year old man, a father of four, four or three children at that stage. And he wasn't too far from his home, his wife was at home with the children and a little place about 10km from where we were. So Robin knew where we were. He felt a bit more au fait with the whole thing, whereas I didn't have a clue. I'd never been to this part of the world before in my life. You know, growing up in northern Victoria, where all the roads are north, south, east, west and we've been driving around hills for five hours. So, yeah, I was totally at sea.

Julian Morgans (45:48)

Oh, God. Okay. And how are the kids at this stage?

Rob Hunter (45:52)

Pretty good, pretty good. The women cuddling them, holding them, holding their hands, playing with them, chatting, talking, listening. Yeah, pretty good atmosphere. No tears.

Julian Morgans (46:07)

Wow. It's miraculous. Or it's amazing, really.

Rob Hunter (46:10)

These are.

Julian Morgans (46:11)

These sound like pretty brave kids and those.

Rob Hunter (46:14)

I ended up writing the book and we'll talk about that later, but I call those ladies angels. And in all tense, for all intents and purposes, they served the purpose of calming the children and loving the kids and encouraging them and supporting them right through this ordeal. They were a gift and that's what.

Julian Morgans (46:40)

Was angelic about them. They looked after the kids.

Rob Hunter (46:44)

Yep, yep.

Julian Morgans (46:45)

Okay. Okay, so walk me through the next part of the story. What happens?

Rob Hunter (46:51)

Yeah, so I'm thinking, gosh, we're gonna be here forever. 5 o' clock comes and goes. We're in this camping spot. A bit of food gets passed around, a bit of water, a bit more milk. Anyone who wants a drink of milk, because he's. He'd raided the Balara General store that morning. He had more milk than we knew what to do with. The children. Yeah, the children had been drinking milk, which might have been one of the reasons why they threw up as well. Yeah, so we all get a little bit of ham, tinned ham, Spam ham, some people would call it. And probably the pivotal moment then that I didn't realise was a pivotal moment. This is all going over my head, I tell you. I really wasn't. It's a bit true to my character, but we all get a chance to go to the toilet. Us five blokes having been chained up, we were the threat. He knew that five of us could easily overpower him. The children and the women were cooperating absolutely fully and he didn't feel sense any danger with them. We all get a chance to go to the toilet one at a time. The key gets thrown to us, we have to unlock our lock and with his gun he takes us over to the side and we have a leak. Well, Robin's the last person to have this done to. And by that stage I think Eastwood's relaxing a little bit more. Everything's going okay here. No one's tried to overpower him. Robin. When he ties his chain up, a little word comes to his mind. Twister. Links. He'd done a lot with chains and as a logger he twisted the links and then he was able to untwist them in the middle of the night and get a bit of slack. And he was able to pull his hand out of the chain unbeknownst to me and unbeknownst to Eastwood. And he was able to sneak off, sneak off at about 5am hey, we're.

Julian Morgans (49:27)

Just going to stop here for a quick ad break, but stick around. We'll be right back with more what it was like.

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Rob Hunter (51:22)

So we're all. We're all awake most of the time, but at around about 5, I reckon certainly Eastwood had fallen asleep and I had a nap. The radio's going and there's music going. And he's listening to the news bulletins because he wants to hear the stories about the kidnapping.

Julian Morgans (51:44)

Was the kidnapping on the news?

Rob Hunter (51:45)

Yeah, yeah. From about 10pm he's relishing the news.

Julian Morgans (51:53)

Did you find that comforting to know that other people had noticed?

Rob Hunter (51:57)

Yes, the 11. I itemized this in the book and it's a bit of a gray area for me, but I think my name and the school's name are mentioned in the 11 o' clock news. And I'm thinking, oh, beauty. And then we're hearing helicopters and aeroplanes above. I. I wasn't sure whether this was actually police ones, but I thought they were. Oh, beauty. You know, maybe we'll be. Will be saved here. But the key was Robin was able to nick off.

Julian Morgans (52:34)

Okay. That's also a bit of a surreal environment. You know, you guys are all sort of napping, I imagine. It's dark. It's like pitch black. You're out in the bush, but there's this blaring radio.

Rob Hunter (52:44)

This is.

Julian Morgans (52:45)

It's a weird environment.

Rob Hunter (52:46)

Yeah, yeah. And some of the music that was sung 1977, Julian. I don't know whether you know any.

Julian Morgans (52:54)

Of these songs, but sadly missed out on 1977.

Rob Hunter (52:58)

The Eagles and America were some of the big ones. And Winter in America was one of the songs. Whenever I hear it, Earl comes back. I'm in the bush, I'm chained up around a tree, so. Jeez.

Julian Morgans (53:15)

Were there any other songs that felt sort of grotesquely cheery in that?

Rob Hunter (53:22)

Yeah, some of those Eagles songs. I list them in the book right now. I haven't got them on my head.

Julian Morgans (53:29)

But that's all right. Yeah, it's okay. I imagine. I imagine the Beach Boy has got to play or something like that. Yeah, probably.

Rob Hunter (53:36)

Yeah.

Julian Morgans (53:37)

Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. So Robin. Yeah, he sounds like he knows his way around a couple of chain links. This would have never occurred to me. I don't know that chains take up more space if you twist it. Interesting.

Rob Hunter (53:50)

Yeah. Robin's become a very good friend, and why not? When someone risks their life to save you, he's everybody's friend now.

Julian Morgans (54:05)

Yeah. Best friend.

Rob Hunter (54:07)

Yeah. We. We've remembered his heroics ever since and we've just been so thankful and grateful for his. For what he did. He's. His smarts. Yeah. And his bravery. But he had to run a good 10k to the nearest farmhouse to. To make the phone call.

Julian Morgans (54:36)

Did you see him slip out of the chains or you're asleep at this point?

Rob Hunter (54:40)

Yeah. I didn't know he'd slipped out of the chains, but he. I would have been awake at that point. He heard his. Hurt his thumb in the process. Damaged its thumb badly. It took ages to recover. He said, but. And I, and I. But I'd fallen asleep by the time he was able to sneak off. He took his boots off because forest floor, it's February, dry leaves, sticks. He's hoping for a big wind to be able to muffle the noise so he wouldn't wake Eastwood. He was hoping that Eastwood was asleep. He couldn't see him. He hadn't heard a word from him for a while. He thought, okay, now's my time. It would have been about 5am and he snuck off.

Julian Morgans (55:32)

Jeez, he's. He's patient, isn't he? Really waiting for the right moment.

Rob Hunter (55:36)

Yeah. Yeah.

Julian Morgans (55:36)

Okay, so. So was your first indication anything had happened, Just waking up and noticing there was one less of you?

Rob Hunter (55:43)

Yeah. Yeah. I would have woken up at about half past six, I reckon. And Greg Peterson's next to me and hey, where's Robin? And Greg said, no, he's not. He snuck off when. And Eastwood's still asleep at this point. And I'm thinking, oh, gosh, you know what's going to happen here?

Julian Morgans (56:08)

Yeah, I'd have been nervous.

Rob Hunter (56:09)

All hell's going to break loose anyway. We had a good 15 minutes, I suppose, maybe, maybe longer. And one of the kids is starting to hand out a bit more chocolate, our breakfast, and which woke Eastwood up. And he sort of stood up, stretched and, you know, moving around slowly walks over to check on us and sees the gap. Where's Singlet? He called Robin Singlet because he had this blue singlet on it. Bluey. Where's Singlet gone When? And anyway, he didn't even wait for the answer. He unlocked the chain from around the tree. Get in the car. And off. Everyone piled in again. That was a scary moment because he was, he was beside himself.

Julian Morgans (57:15)

Right.

Rob Hunter (57:15)

Okay.

Julian Morgans (57:16)

He was. He was furious or he seemed scared.

Rob Hunter (57:19)

Both. Both Scared, Furious, agitated, heightened.

Julian Morgans (57:25)

Unpredictable.

Rob Hunter (57:26)

Yeah. Was. Is he gonna shoot? I don't know. The gun was always the scary thing. You know? Yeah, because every now and again it came out and it would point out here and you'd think.

Julian Morgans (57:42)

Yeah, seriously. Okay. All right, so you're, you're back in the car, rocketing down these, these unmade bush roads.

Rob Hunter (57:49)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And five minutes, heading back towards the South Gippsland highway, we meet a police car coming the opposite way. Oh, beauty. I saw it. We're all looking at the road, see the police car, sirens, flashing lights, beauty. We're saved. But no, we just sped past the police car. The driver had got out and said stop. Eastwood didn't stop, just kept on heading to the highway. But once when we got to the highway, there's police cars everywhere, there's vehicles everywhere, flashing lights, personnel, guns, you name it. Eastwood just kept on going.

Julian Morgans (58:45)

Oh geez. And this is because Robin had got to the farmhouse and called the authorities.

Rob Hunter (58:49)

Yep, yep.

Julian Morgans (58:50)

Okay.

Rob Hunter (58:51)

Yeah, okay.

Julian Morgans (58:52)

So, so you know, you, this must have been pretty hair raising in this car. Like this is a high speed pursuit at this point.

Rob Hunter (58:59)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So we head, head towards, say along this, along the South Gippsland highway. And we come to a roadblock. Two vehicles, two vehicles head to head with police hiding behind the vehicles with guns. Eastwood starts shooting at them. They're shooting at us. Eastwood's got his hand out the window trying to drive. Actually, I think before this roadblock he was shooting at the cars behind, driving behind us. What the heck, you idiot. Yeah, why, what are you going to do? What are you going to achieve with this? Anyway, we come to a roadblock. Gunshots exchanged. He was able to go around the roadblock another five minutes down the road and maybe 10 there's another roadblock.

Julian Morgans (60:04)

Sorry, Rob, can we, can we just, we might just pause just for a moment, just. I'm hearing a lot of kids in the hallway and I'm guessing that they'll go into their classrooms or something.

Rob Hunter (60:12)

It's recess.

Julian Morgans (60:14)

Ah, yeah, yeah, that's all right. It's fine. I mean it's very, it's very on, on brand thematically. It makes a lot of sense. Maybe we'll just get that bit again then. Just because there were some kids just outside.

Rob Hunter (60:27)

Yeah. What were we up to?

Julian Morgans (60:29)

So, so the roadblocks. That's right, the roadblocks.

Rob Hunter (60:33)

Yeah. So we're speeding along the South Gippsland Highway. Eastwood shooting at police that are driving behind us. We look behind and there seems to be a string of police cars. We come across a roadblock. Gunshots are exchanged and we are able to go around the roadblock. And keep going. The police. Gunshots miss our wheels. Miss the what? The tires. They're shooting at our tires. They miss a gunshot goes underneath the seat. We only see this afterwards when. Once we've got out of the vehicle later on.

Julian Morgans (61:14)

This is so dangerous.

Rob Hunter (61:16)

Very, very dangerous. Come to the second roadblock and once again he goes around the roadblock. By this stage he's run out of ammunition. He's click, click, click, click on his gun. It's not clicking, not, not shooting anymore. Police shoot out our tires and we come to a standstill. He gets out of the vehicle, surrenders. They shoot him in the leg and.

Julian Morgans (61:46)

They shoot him in the leg just for good measure.

Rob Hunter (61:48)

Yeah, I think he's lucky that he didn't get shot anywhere else really. If it had been in the US or I don't know. Yeah, Kidnapped, taking children like that. And the police didn't know whether he had. Whether he was one or two. So they're on high alert. They're thinking, who else is in the car? Where's his mate? Where's. He's. Who else has got another gun? So they're, you know, they, their bravery was exceptional at this point as well. They stormed him and they stormed our car. Opening the doors. We'd lock the doors because. Oh, because the passenger door wasn't fully shut. It was partly a jar and we're worried that Ray, one of the kids, was going to fall out of the vehicle. So we lock it anyway. The police couldn't get in. We unlock it and let them in and they're saying, who's who here, you know, but we're saved at that point.

Julian Morgans (62:56)

Oh, God. What was the feeling of relief?

Rob Hunter (63:00)

Yeah, Lots of deep breaths and the hardest part was to find keys in Eastwood's pocket and find the right key to unlock us blokes from the rest of us from the chains. But yeah, children were crying, the women. Once again, I'm separated from the kids most of this time so I couldn't get to them. Teachers. I'm a teacher at heart and I just wanted to be able to support them but I couldn't get near them. The women, as I said, angelically supporting and comforting these kids. Beautiful.

Julian Morgans (63:46)

And were you? I don't know. I've never been in a moment like that where just the sort of the adrenaline that's flooding your body just sort of stops and there's just this sort of eerie calm and I don't know, was it. Was it at that point did you really start to feel upset and bit distraught?

Rob Hunter (64:08)

I Don't think. I don't think I ever really got upset. Not at that point anyway. I'm still pretty stressed and because there's lots of people around, there's conversations, there's police asking questions and there's. I'm bit worried about the kids. And there's some classic photos in the book which Joy Edward, the one of the angel, gets a camera out and starts taking photos.

Julian Morgans (64:50)

Wow.

Rob Hunter (64:52)

And it wasn't until 40 years later I found these. She showed me these photos and so by this stage I've self published a book and they weren't in that first book, but Wilkinson Publishing published this book commercially, which I'm so thankful for. And I was able to put those photos in there. Some classic photos of plainclothes policemen with armored rifles walking along holding children in one hand with a gun in another. Photos like that, they're classic.

Julian Morgans (65:32)

Yeah. That's a surreal image. Yeah. Okay. And so you know what happened for the rest of the day? Just take me through it.

Rob Hunter (65:41)

Yeah. So the police were concerned. They didn't want the parents to interfere with what to happen next. The police wanted statements. So they took us to Sale police station and we're there for about four hours. So then what time is it? It's about half past seven in the morning. We haven't eaten. The police look after us. They take us to a local, local hotel and we get cooked up and bacon and egg for breakfast, lovely toast. Children all feed their faces because we haven't had a proper evening meal either. And we spend the whole day at Sale police station making statements, talking on the phone, talking to press. I was able to call my mom. The children were all able to talk to their parents, but the police kept the parents back at school saying, we're going to bring them in a minute. Well, we didn't get back to the school until about, I don't know, half past three, something like that.

Julian Morgans (66:49)

Those parents must have been distraught.

Rob Hunter (66:51)

They were. They were absolutely beside themselves.

Julian Morgans (66:54)

Yeah.

Rob Hunter (66:56)

And the children had had a happy day, playing with police and police sirens and sandwiches and eating and drinks and the police had sort of entertained them while all these statements were being made. It was quite a lovely atmosphere.

Julian Morgans (67:14)

Wow.

Rob Hunter (67:15)

And so the women were there. Everyone was pretty happy until we got back to the school and the children are reunited with their parents. The parents have been hanging out to see their kids, thought their kids had been taken forever or died or killed. And everyone starts crying.

Julian Morgans (67:39)

Oh yeah, I can imagine.

Rob Hunter (67:40)

Yeah.

Julian Morgans (67:41)

Yeah. And. And what did you do that night, you know, when you finally Got home. Like, how do you. How do you rinse a thing like that off?

Rob Hunter (67:50)

Well, one thing. I didn't sleep anyway. I did not sleep that night. That was probably. I was. More. Things were going over in my head over and over on rewind, over and over and over. And one of the biggest things that was going over in my mind was I found out by one of the parents that I had been chief suspect number one. Certainly from the parents point of view. And then initially for the police too. Who is this kid? Who is this 20 year old with a beard, bearded, unkempt, you know, character. And they'd suspected me and I. I was devastated. Naively. Naively. I was always devastated. How. How could they distrust my character?

Julian Morgans (68:48)

Well, they. Yeah, they just didn't know you.

Rob Hunter (68:49)

That's. That's exactly.

Julian Morgans (68:51)

That's all that it was.

Rob Hunter (68:52)

Exactly. Yeah. Wow.

Julian Morgans (68:55)

Was there any sort of counseling offered or, you know, any of that sort of psychological service sort of stuff? No, this is the 70s, 1970s.

Rob Hunter (69:02)

Absolutely zip, Julian. Not a. Not a. Not a. Not a. Not an iota.

Julian Morgans (69:12)

What was the. Did anyone sort of like give you a hug and say, you're right or like. I don't know, was there anything.

Rob Hunter (69:19)

Well, one of the parents. Yeah, one of the parents and his. The McKenzie family invited me back for dinner that night with my housemate. My housemate had been through trauma as well. He'd been questioned by police and where the hell's Robbie? He hadn't gone to school that day. Anyway, we both went back to their house for dinner, which was just lovely. That was very kind.

Julian Morgans (69:49)

That is nice.

Rob Hunter (69:50)

Three of the children were from that family. Oh, wow. Yeah, I really, really appreciated that. And they were very kind and very supportive. But overall, all of the family. Families were just traumatized and they just went into their shells, I think. And they didn't debrief properly with their children either. Some of the children just sort of went to bed, you know, without a proper debriefing.

Julian Morgans (70:21)

Oh, God.

Rob Hunter (70:23)

My boss, the district inspector, we called him the Di. Mr. Bull was his name. He said, rob, well done. You can have the rest of the week off. So I got that. This was Tuesday. Now that we're back safe and sound, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, I didn't have to go to school. I got three days off. But I got paid, Julian. So that was good, wasn't it?

Julian Morgans (70:50)

That was all right. I was gonna say, what a lousy deal. But, hey, you got paid.

Rob Hunter (70:54)

Yeah. And so I was back at school the following Monday.

Julian Morgans (70:59)

What did you. I mean, were you Traumatized. Like, how were those next few days for you?

Rob Hunter (71:06)

I must have been traumatized, but at the time, I had no idea. My family talked to me, my friends talked to me. I debriefed to some extent with them, but not much. I think those days my parents were. Wanted me to just get back on with my life. Let's not talk about this too much. Let's not make a big deal of this. Let's just put a lid on it, because if we let it out of the bag, it'll become bigger than Ben Hur, because the press would just. There was interviews left, right and center. The phone was ringing all night every day. You know, television crews, radio, newspaper, you name it.

Julian Morgans (71:53)

Did you take some of those interviews or were you trying to ignore them?

Rob Hunter (71:56)

I was happy to take them, but I guess my family, who I went home to those days and that weekend were trying to protect me. And they were saying, no more interviews. Go away. And they were trying to keep a lid on it, which was fair enough at one level, but the odd, you know, I'm a trained counselor these days. The need for counseling for all of those children and for all of us adults was acute. We needed a proper debrief.

Julian Morgans (72:36)

Absolutely. So. So that makes me think, like, what happened to those kids over the next couple of years? You know, how did, How. How did they become adults?

Rob Hunter (72:47)

Yeah, it's hard to explain, but part of it is the four eldest children, the three grade sixes and one of the grade fives, didn't come back to the school. They went into Lee and Gatha for the rest of the year, which I think was good for them, but it was like an escape. They formed great friendships and preparing for high school, which was smart. One of the families, for example, never talked about it again. And one of the grade six girls never talked about it again. And she's now become one of my closest friends, friends out of this ordeal. And she's eventually faced it because of the book being written and she's done podcasts and she's happy to talk about it now. It had took 40 years for that healing process to take place. Okay, so they're all many and varied. One of the girls ended up in a bank as a teller, and there's a hold up in the bank.

Julian Morgans (74:09)

No way.

Rob Hunter (74:10)

Yeah. And so she's triply traumatized. And so those. All of the children who have now become parents say they were just all overprotective. Helicopter parents wouldn't let their children go to school by themselves without, you know, extra supervision. That Sort of stuff. So everyone's affected massively.

Julian Morgans (74:37)

And you said that there was one person in particular who really struggled to move past it.

Rob Hunter (74:43)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's, she's, she's now gone out of her way to really face it and embrace it. She's had a kind of gorgeous husband and children that have been really patient with her. She's a fully qualified professional. She's a gun. She's lovely. But she had suppressed it all that time in an unhealthy way and just, it was a no go zone. And so she wasn't open and transparent to lots of things as a result. But in time that, that's been healed largely, I think.

Julian Morgans (75:24)

Okay. Did you ever receive any kind of workers compensation or just sort of support from the state?

Rob Hunter (75:34)

Yeah, that's another story. You're opening, you're opening Pandora's box here, Julian. So I felt a bit guilty about applying because I wanted to just say, look, I'm really thankful for the way in which we're safe. We're all, you know, Robin was a hero. The police were heroes. We're okay. Eastwood's in jail. He's been given a life sentence. We don't have to worry about him anymore. Those sorts of things. That's what I focused on. But the parents said, no, Rob, come on, you need to apply for. This was from the Crimes Compensation Tribunal. Stress and strain, some compensation. So I applied. We all went to the Crimes Compensation Tribunal. I got offered $1,000 and I say to the, to the commissioner. Is that all?

Julian Morgans (76:34)

So how has this event shaped your life? You know, it's been, it's been a while now.

Rob Hunter (76:40)

Yeah.

Julian Morgans (76:41)

As, as the decades have moved on, move past. Do you observe that there's sort of one or two lessons or sort of major threads you've taken from that event?

Rob Hunter (76:53)

Yeah. So there was always ongoing flashbacks, little. Little anxiety attacks, I suppose, hot flushes, palpitations, which gradually petered out. I felt like I got over it pretty well until I wrote the book. When I wrote the book, I faced it all again and sort of went through a little bit of trauma again. Yeah. So I'm sure there was PTSD there. But I now run seminars called Health After Hurt, Kidnap Teacher Talks seminars. And I talk about my health because I followed a few strategic practices. Gratitude. I kept on saying to anyone who asked, I'm just so thankful for Robin Smith, the police, we're all okay. The way in which things unfolded. So I practiced that. That's such an important thing. And forgiveness, I practiced forgiveness. It Was easy for me to forgive really. Eastwood was in jail, justice was done and I made a point of I forgive him, I forgive him. And the chain that was wrapped around my wrist metaphorically fell off and I was able to get on with my life, thank you very much. I didn't have any resentment or bitterness partly to do with my character I suppose, whereas a lot of other people sort of hung onto that for a little bit longer I think and that's probably been potentially to their detriment. So gratitude, forgiveness and the other one that I spout in my talks is reaching out in kindness and being outward focus. So I continued teaching, I continued to play sport, I continued to have a lot of friends, continued to be an interested friend in a lot of other people, you know what I mean? So that, and I had a strong foundation to stand on because I'd been brought up in a. With that, with that ideology.

Julian Morgans (79:36)

Yes, yes. And I guess something I'd like to finish with is do you have any advice for people? You never know when some sort of life and death situation is going to arise. You never know when just the wheel of fortune of life just sort of deals you some sort of bizarre and unexpected situation. But having lived through something like that, do you learn anything that maybe you'd have some advice for people about how they can approach an unexpected situation?

Rob Hunter (80:13)

Yeah, I think those, those three things that I just mentioned, gratitude, forgiveness and having an outward focus of reaching out and being kind to people, the gratitude thing sort of changes your mindset because you know, we've all got a choice. We can think woe is me, poor me, poor me, poor me, put the shutters up and say, you know, I've had a bad day, get lost. Or we can focus on what we can be thankful for. And there's so many things and it just changes your whole thinking. It changes your mind, your thought process. Forgiveness of the other one and then being kind. I don't know, I think forgiveness is a bit of a no brainer because if you don't forgive you're actually hurting yourself. You're hanging on to something that's going to make you hurt and angry and resentful. Somebody said, you know, unforgiveness is like drinking poison yourself and hoping the other person is going to die, you know, so there's that one. And kindness, reaching out to help somebody else in the midst of your pain. Actually, you know, you get over yourself and that's therapeutic as well. My problems aren't anywhere near, oh, I forgot about myself for a little while while I've been helping somebody else. So yeah, that's what I spout in my health after Hurt seminars.

Julian Morgans (82:07)

Okay, that's great. Rob, this has been such a pleasure. I've really enjoyed talking with you, so thanks for coming on the show.

Rob Hunter (82:15)

Thank you very much Julian.

Julian Morgans (82:19)

If you enjoyed today's episode, you should absolutely check out Rob's book. It's called Day 9 at Warain and you can find it easily online. Also, I really want to highlight that Rob gives talks at school around Australia and he's available to speak at your school@kidnappedteachertalks.com it's all one word kidnappedteachertalks.com and I'll put the link in the show notes. Also, just a quick reminder, this week's bonus episode episode is about cargo cults. I'm going to speak with a guy who visited a community in Vanuatu who worshiped Prince Philip as a deity. It's a fascinating ride, but it's only for subscribers and for about 10 bucks a month that could be you. Today's episode was produced by Rachel Tuffery. It was mixed by Jimmy Saunders who also did our theme music. Ali Dickey is our intern. Our cover art is by Rich Akers and this whole thing has been a super real production.

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Julian Morgans (84:09)

Use Ezcator to order food for staff lunches?

Rob Hunter (84:11)

Because my 46 PA acronym system is so easy. I just have to salad, stay alert to late arriving deliveries, pie, put in expenses and guga pie. Go out and get everyone's preferences and allergy information.

Julian Morgans (84:23)

That's supposed to be simple.

Rob Hunter (84:25)

No, simple is Steven, Irma and Margie prefer lasagna and empanadas. Omg. No need to make work life more complicated.

Sarah Gibson Tuttle (84:33)

Just use EasyCater, the easy way to get food for work.