Podcast Summary: "What We Found Hidden in our Walls"

Podcast: What It Was Like

Host: Julian Mokins
Guest: Kaya Betzius
Release Date: August 23, 2025

Overview

In this gripping and unexpectedly educational episode, Julian Mokins interviews Kaya Betzius, who recounts the bizarre and unsettling discoveries made inside the walls of her family’s rural Pennsylvania home. What starts as a story about a nasty renovation surprise unfolds into a tale touching on obscure American folk traditions, family upheaval, and an accidental brush with “powwowing”—the ritual “white magic” of the Pennsylvania Dutch. The episode masterfully balances dark humor, historical education, and human vulnerability.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The House and Discovery (04:13 – 13:51)

• Setting the Scene:

  • The house was purchased by Kaya and her husband in Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania, near Berks County, a region with unusual traditions and a history of German migration (04:13).
  • The Betzius family was looking for a bigger, move-in ready home for their growing family (06:11).

• Initial Vibes and Move-In:

  • The house didn’t feel spooky to Kaya, though her daughter was wary (06:19).
  • Built around the 1920s with “balloon construction”—important later for understanding how objects were hidden in the walls (06:54).

• The First Finds:

  • While insulating the attic, Kaya’s husband finds old bottles and then 1980s pornographic magazines—prompting laughter, especially when their 7-year-old son inadvertently grabs one (09:42).
  • Funny moment:
    • Julian, joking about the magazines:
      “A lot of bush.” (09:42)
    • Kaya:
      “It was a lot of 80s bush.” (09:43)

• Something Sinister?

  • They discover a desiccated onion and a burlap sack deeper in the cavity. Kaya’s first thought—rooted in local folklore—is that it’s a dead baby (11:24).
  • Kaya:
    “I just couldn’t think of, like, what else you would wrap in a burlap sack and put down in the wall. Like, to me, it was so obvious.” (11:26)

• Opening the Wall:

  • Overcome with dread and curiosity, they cut into the nursery wall without protective gear, unleashing a cloud of dust (13:04).
  • Kaya:
    “There was not a baby in that burlap sack. No baby. No baby. It was... there was something in there, though, and it was a chicken carcass. It was wrapped up and shoved down into a wall in this burlap sack.” (13:51 / also in intro)

2. The Hidden Hoard Expands (16:25 – 25:41)

• An Impossible Collection:

  • They discover about 20 chickens—all roosters—wrapped and stitched in various ways, plus animal skulls, feet, carnival glass, metal objects, and more. Some items tied with knots, string, and random cloth (16:25).
  • A giant 12-inch cast iron skillet is found lodged in the wall cavity (17:35).

• From Fascination to Horror:

  • The initial relief and curiosity quickly become disgust and anxiety, as the process reveals extensive mold issues exacerbated by the organic material hidden within damp, poorly insulated walls (17:35 – 20:28).

• The Compounding Realization:

  • Kaya and her husband realize that only one side of the duplex (the side they own) is affected (20:28).

3. Health and Home Fallout (20:00 – 25:41)

• Illness:
  • Both Kaya and her husband became ill from exposure to the decayed material. “We got fevers. Acutely sick... for like three or four days.” (23:16)
  • Their son, who had been sleeping in the affected nursery, suffered frequent ear and respiratory infections that resolved after moving him out and fixing the room (24:34).

4. Piecing Together the Mystery (29:40 – 39:13)

• Call the Archaeologists:

  • Kaya’s sister, an archaeologist, halts the planned disposal of the wall contents and urges documentation and preservation (29:40).
  • Objects include knotted pantyhose, needles with bent wood, aluminum curtain rods, etc. (31:26).

• Learning About Powwowing:

  • Through her sister’s academic contacts, Kaya learns about “powwowing”—a folk healing and protective magic tradition brought by German migrants (the so-called Pennsylvania Dutch, from “Deutsch” meaning German) (32:43).
  • Powwowing was not commonly discussed and was considered “white magic,” aimed at healing and protection rather than harm (34:43).

• Connecting with Experts:

  • Patrick Donmoyer, a museum worker and powwow documentarian, visits and confirms the ritualistic nature of the findings—pointing out how the technique and materials evolved over time, dated by newspapers (38:57).

5. Understanding the History and Local Reactions (39:13 – 46:31)

• Local Color:

  • Kaya learns a local powwower (folk healer) rented her home in the 1930s and 40s.
  • Townspeople recall being treated by him, including a 90-year-old former patient who described a powwowing ritual for whooping cough (41:13).

• Uneasy Fit in the Community:

  • “You guys sort of come in as just Johnny come lately. And they're like, don't you criticize our local black magic man!” (42:26, Julian)
  • The family’s story stirred up both skepticism and local defensiveness.

6. Physical and Emotional Recovery (46:31 – 55:21)

• Financial and Practical Strain:

  • Extensive repairs were required, including full wall replacements. The family started a GoFundMe, raising $3,400 for repairs, and were grateful for both financial and practical advice received (46:31).

• Media and Social Backlash:

  • Publicity led to bullying at school for their children, who were teased:
    “Ew, you had chickens in your walls!” (49:05)
  • Ongoing online suggestions to “put them back in the walls” for fear of curses.

• Donating History:

  • The powwow artifacts are donated to a museum but aren’t on display due to biohazard concerns (51:25).
  • Kaya:
    “It's hard to get friends that will agree to help inventory the stuff and get the stuff out of these bags... you could get really sick because what’s in a chicken's gut are bacteria...” (50:32)

• Lasting Effects:

  • Even after repairs, the psychological toll lingers:
    “Anytime we do any kind of construction and we're opening up an area that we've never looked in, I am, like, jumping over that person to look down because I'm like, you never know.” (54:43)

7. Looking Back: Lessons and Reflections (55:21 – End)

• Perspective:

  • Kaya expresses her new appreciation for folk traditions and the importance of moisture/mold management in old houses, with both seriousness and humor (55:33).

• Silver Lining:

  • The experience makes for a compelling story:
    "It's fun at parties... but not my kids and not my husband. They leave. They [don’t] want to hear it." (56:02)

• Host Reflection:

  • Julian frames the ordeal as an astonishing look at hidden histories beneath the surface of American life:
    “It turned out to be this fascinating piece of obscure history that relates to the sort of... founding of modern America.” (56:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Horrified but Curious:

  • “I just couldn’t think of, like, what else you would wrap in a burlap sack and put down in the wall. Like, to me, it was so obvious.”
    —Kaya Betzius (11:26)

• Ritual or Revenge?

  • “I was mad. I was confused and angry.”
    —Kaya (21:53)

• On Powwowing:

  • “I learned that there was a powwower that lived in our house. He was a renter, not a homeowner.”
    —Kaya (35:53)

• Community Reaction:

  • “You guys sort of come in as just Johnny come lately. And they're like, don't you criticize our local black magic man!”
    —Julian (42:26)

• Family Takeaway:

  • “I will never probably—if I ever buy another house, it’ll be new construction. I’m traumatized.”
    —Kaya (53:05)

• Silver Lining:

  • “We found no babies the entire time.”
    —Kaya (55:10)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Discovery Overview & First Shocking Find: 13:51 – 16:25
• Cataloguing the Wall’s Hoard: 16:25 – 21:04
• Physical Illness & Mold Fallout: 23:16 – 25:41
• Historical Explanation—Powwowing: 32:43 – 35:53
• Museum Documentation and Analysis: 38:57 – 43:28
• Neighborhood Reactions, Media, and Recovery: 46:31 – 51:25
• Final Reflections: 55:21 – 56:40

Tone and Style

This episode oscillates between dark humor and real distress, offering moments of both laughter (“It was a lot of 80s bush”) and sincere worry (“We got fevers. Acutely sick…”). Kaya’s good-natured storytelling and Julian’s curious, sometimes irreverent probing create a confessional, almost cathartic atmosphere.

Overall

For listeners, this episode is a compelling blend of personal horror story, accidental archaeology, and deep American history—served with wry candor and practical wisdom. The ordeal leaves the Betzius family forever changed, their story a reminder that sometimes, the greatest secrets of a home are buried just beneath the surface.