Welcome to Episode 11 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr. Ruth Braunstein, a sociologist at Johns Hopkins University’s SNF Agora Institute. A cultural sociologist interested in the role of religion and morality in American political life, Ruth's award-winning research has been published in the top peer-reviewed journals in her field, and has been covered in major news outlets including the New York Times, Washington Post, and Time Magazine. She also writes frequently for public audiences, including at The Guardian, Religion News Service, and The Conversation, and in her weekly Substack Democracy Is Hard.

Ruth is also the creator of the podcast series When the Wolves Came, which we will be discussing in this episode and which I recommend highly that you go and listen to after you finish this episode.

Ruth‘s research, writing and teaching have been recognized by numerous awards and fellowships. She received the inaugural Distinguished Early Career Award from the American Sociological Association’s Religion Section, and her former department’s 2021 Faculty Mentor Award.

She is currently President of the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion (SSSR), a Faculty Fellow at the Center for Cultural Sociology at Yale University, and Chair of the Board of Directors of PRRI. I relied on PRRI research in my introduction to the CCE Christian nationalism Project.

She earned her doctoral degree in sociology from New York University and her undergraduate degree from Georgetown University. She is originally from Atlanta, GA.

Today’s podcast is on Christian nationalism in the USA and I found it bracing, a wakeup call. As a scholar of early Christianity, the earliest stages of Christianity, it still shocks me as to how we got from there to here. I’m not arguing that the people who adhere to Christian nationalism are not real Christians, or challenging their devotion, but I will read a passage that Ruth cited from Matthew 7, giving it a bit more context from the chapter in Matthew:

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.

Keep this in mind as you listen to the episode. Are Christian nationalists bearing the fruit of love of neighbour? Are they bearing the fruit of the Spirit that the Apostle Paul delineates? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control? Who is? Ask yourself this question as, as I ask myself this question: am I bearing this fruit?

For me, this was an important introduction to Christian nationalism. We could not have had a better or more nuanced guide than Ruth Braunstein. It was my honour to speak with her.

This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.

What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark’s College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors.

A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.

I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas.

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Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.

John W. Martens

Director, Centre for Christian Engagement