Finding Meaning in a System Built to Fracture You with Josh Johnson

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Finding Meaning in a System Built to Fracture You"

Podcast: What Now? with Trevor Noah
Host: Trevor Noah
Guest: Josh Johnson (comedian, writer, Daily Show correspondent)
Date: November 6, 2025

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Overview

This episode welcomes comedian and writer Josh Johnson for a candid, humorous, and thoughtful exploration of finding authenticity, success, and meaning in a contemporary system designed to divide and distract. Trevor, Josh, and regular guest Eugene navigate themes of creative process, privilege, surviving adversity, and how societal structures—from algorithms to economic class—influence our sense of self and community. With a tone that shifts effortlessly from playful banter to deep reflection, they interrogate modern comedy, the impact of social media, and the role of comedians in a fractured world.

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Main Themes and Purpose

• Authenticity in Comedy: The journey from performing a persona to integrating real personal experiences on stage.
• Navigating Adversity: How early struggles and jobs outside showbiz informed resilience and perspective.
• The Fractured System: Understanding how societal, algorithmic, and economic forces disrupt connection and community.
• The Internet and Identity: The double-edged sword of online platforms: new opportunities but also new boxes to be put in.
• Privilege and Process: A nuanced discussion of who gets to pursue passion and how privilege shapes that journey.
• Resisting Division: A call to recognize the systems that keep people compliant, distracted, and turned against each other.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Stealing Jokes & Roots of Comedy

[03:11]

• Trevors and Josh riff on the anxiety of accidentally stealing jokes and how the real-life origins of comedy often blur with performance.
• Josh Johnson: “You start out, and you're like a version of yourself, but you're such a baby in what you even know works for you.”

2. Crime as a Comedic Prompt

[05:00]

• Hilarious hypotheticals: The crime each would be best at ("wire fraud" for Josh, getaway driver for Trevor), exploring morality, plausible deniability, and social perceptions of criminality.

3. Becoming "Real" as a Comedian

[09:18]

• The panel tracks the shift from “shtick” to “authenticity” in comedy, crediting Richard Pryor as pivotal.
• Josh Johnson: “Pryor was telling us his real life … so then everything with Richard Pryor, even if he was embellishing now, he'd literally have to talk about, like, a person flying for you to not think he wasn’t talking about real life.”

4. Josh’s Journey: Fitting In vs. Finding Your Place

[12:00]

• Josh candidly reflects on “not fitting in my entire life up until two years ago," describing the slow process of integrating his quirks and struggles into material.
• his time working at Trader Joe’s and using those experiences as fuel for his stand-up.

5. Privilege, Happiness, and "Loving the Process"

[49:41]

• Trevor and Eugene debate whether loving the process is a luxury or attainable for everyone, probing the reality of pursuing passions amid financial stress.
• Eugene: “The average person ... does not have the luxury to think about their passion. They're thinking about, what am I gonna do now?”
• Trevor Noah: “I think ... it might be a luxurious way of experiencing your own mind, but I don't think it's an unattainable luxury... there are people who can do it in those moments. They're sometimes the people who inspire me the most.”

6. Money, Success, and Community

[42:04, 44:00]

• Josh on how Internet-driven community has closed the “gap” that traditional media used to gatekeep.
• Emphasizes the fleeting and relative meaning of being “number one” in comedy.

7. Industry Systems and The Algorithm

[82:50, 85:00]

• The shift from network gatekeepers to individualized algorithmic realities—how the same artist is perceived differently by each fan and how this erodes shared reality.
• Trevor Noah: “What does that do to us when we don't see the full complexity of each other?”

8. The Politics of Division and Compliance

[65:00, 67:45]

• Josh’s metaphor: corporations pay workers “just before riot,” highlighting systemic incentives to keep people divided and compliant.
• Josh Johnson: "You don't get paid to do your job. You get paid not to riot. They pay you just before riot."
• Modern politics as performative, using the tools (staging, audience work) of stand-up to stoke division.

9. The Role of Bots and Online Discourse

[88:17]

• Josh proposes a glass-half-full take: if half the internet are bots, maybe there are fewer actual Nazis.
• Warns of the seductive power of hate and engagement online, urging a healthy skepticism toward reality as constructed by algorithms.

10. Personal Notes: Family, Sobriety, and Gratitude

[96:38]

• Josh’s sobriety, his father’s death, supporting his family, and how these foundational experiences center his values.
• His mother’s reaction to his success: pride tempered with pragmatic concern for his security.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Josh Johnson [12:15]: “It took me up until now to find the place in the jigsaw where I fit in. So it's like I've changed the way that people change from kid to adult, but I haven't changed fully.”
• Trevor Noah [44:01]: “Pursuing money is almost the worst direction you can ever take ... money is a byproduct of a job well done.”
• Josh Johnson [54:35]: “If I can do it, you can do it ... being weaponized to keep people in a bad position—I hate that.”
• Josh Johnson [65:03]: “You don't get paid to do your job. You get paid not to riot. They pay you just before riot.”
• Trevor Noah [85:00]: “You don't have one big broadcast. You have a billion small broadcasts ... only your world now.”
• Josh Johnson [107:08]: “When your life is over, when everything is done, the only real measure of a man is what you build and what you break.”
• On bots vs. real hate online [88:17]:
  • Josh: “They found ... half the Internet is bots. Isn't that great?... there's way less Nazis than we thought.”
  • Trevor: “I like this view. It's an optimistic way of looking at it.”
• On comedy and process:
  • Trevor, on falling in love with cooking vs. loving food [48:13]:
    “If you fall in love with the process in your life, then the outcome just becomes the bonus at the end of it.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Comedy Authenticity & Pryor’s Influence: [09:18-10:42]
• Josh’s Self-Discovery & Personal Growth: [12:00-14:32]
• Privilege and "Loving the Process": [49:41-53:43]
• Money, Success, and Community Online: [42:04-44:29]
• Algorithmic Reality, Slivers of Self: [82:50-86:19]
• Division as Compliance: [65:03-67:45]
• Bots & False Outrage Online: [88:17-91:45]
• Josh on Sobriety & Family: [96:38-103:59]
• Building vs. Breaking, Purpose: [107:08-112:50]

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Tone and Language

Throughout, the conversation is candid, playful, and sharply observant—balancing seriousness with lighthearted riffs (on wire fraud, nunchucks, and pandemic-era haircuts) as models for larger truths about adaptation and survival. The rapport between Trevor, Josh, and Eugene remains playful even as they tackle difficult themes of hardship and societal manipulation.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a wide-ranging yet deeply personal look at surviving and thriving in a system built for division—via creativity, community, and honest self-inquiry. Josh’s journey from the margins of “fitting in” to becoming a voice with the power to reach millions is set against the backdrop of fractured realities and persistent hope. In the end, the episode itself becomes a microcosm of what happens when the fractured parts of a conversation—comedy, adversity, privilege, and love—are fit back together.

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Transcript

[Trevor Noah]

Put your hands together for Josh Johnson, the newest correspondent. He's an Emmy winner. He's got millions of followers online. Wired magazine called him the funniest guy on the Internet, and that's a big place.

[Josh Johnson]

Josh is putting out a weekly special.

[Trevor Noah]

Every single Tuesday on his YouTube channel.

[Josh Johnson]

I'm going to have to sit there listening, watching the super bowl halftime show to Spanish. I'm going to have to sit there with my guacamole and my chips in my lap listening to Spanish. His channel has gotten over 350 million.

[Trevor Noah]

Views, and all this success has actually.

[Josh Johnson]

Landed him a hosting spot on the Daily Show. He has a dream that one day he will not be judged by the content of the Epstein files. I can't stress enough how much I'm enjoying what I'm doing and, like, how obsessed I am with comedy in general.

[Trevor Noah]

This is what now with Trevor Noah.

[Josh Johnson]

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[Trevor Noah]

That's a Do you remember you had a gag about that Eugene back in.

[Eugene]

The day about Dexter?

[Trevor Noah]

There was a what are you looking at?

[Eugene]

What were you doing? I'm looking at something.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you remember there was a joke You. I feel like it was you. You had a joke about how it was something about, like, attempted murder.

[Eugene]

Yeah, man. Tell me more.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man. What was. It was. I feel like the premise was something to the effect of you should get, like, more of a punishment for attempted murder than murder, because, like, attempted. Like, you're not good at what you did. It wasn't you. Maybe it was me then.

[Josh Johnson]

That's so funny.

[Trevor Noah]

Does that ever happen to you?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I've definitely been like, this came to me too easy. I wonder, like, is it somebody? And then I look back at my notebook and I wrote it and then forgot about it.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Sometimes I think it's. Are you sure?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Hmm.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm gonna go look and see if I ever.

[Josh Johnson]

This logic is solid, though.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Cause, like, if somebody hit you, if somebody tried to hit you in your eye, they hit you above your eye, you get more mad. Cause you, like. You tried to hit me in my eye.

[Eugene]

My one was, like, if we could figure out a way to make a body disappear, more murders would happen. Cause it seems like a body, once someone is dead, that thing becomes very famous.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh. So if we just, like. If it just evaporated.

[Eugene]

Yes. But now a body, it's very hard to disappear.

[Josh Johnson]

Huh.

[Eugene]

People roll it in carpets, put it in drums, pour acid over it, put it in dustbins to get rid of it.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. People will make the whole mess bigger. Or they'll make the thing they gotta get rid of bigger. Cause if you put a body in an oil drum, that's a bigger thing you gotta put.

[Eugene]

Yeah, you got a problem.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

And it becomes heavier.

[Trevor Noah]

I never thought of it like that.

[Josh Johnson]

No, My squat is already bad. So then you've added oil drum. Cause you also don't think. Look, if you commit a crime of passion, you don't factor in, you're gonna be tired. So then now you've killed somebody.

[Eugene]

I think first is regret.

[Josh Johnson]

Hopefully, if you're not, like, a sociopath. But even sociopaths only have so much muscle. So then now you're like, all right, I gotta move the body. And it's like trying to move a body. I imagine if you've ever caught a person. Do you know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

If you've ever, like, tried to pick someone up, especially dead weight. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

There's a reason they call it that.

[Eugene]

Yeah. There's reasons why people wake their partners up from the couch.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

Like, you have to go now. Yo.

[Trevor Noah]

Gotta go sleep.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. 100%. 100%. Because there are people that think they could Pick people up because you picked someone who was excited up for sex.

[Trevor Noah]

If there was a crime that you had to commit, what crime would you trust yourself best to commit?

[Josh Johnson]

This feels like it'll end up in a deposition. Wire fraud, maybe.

[Eugene]

Look into that camera.

[Trevor Noah]

Say it into that camera, please, Josh.

[Josh Johnson]

Cause here's the thing about wire fraud. Here's the thing about wire fraud. Everybody already does it by accident.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, what is wire fraud again in America?

[Josh Johnson]

It's just, to me, my understanding of, like, wire fraud is, like, misrepresenting a transaction. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm pretty positive that that's most of Venmo. Like, most of Venmo.

[Trevor Noah]

When you say, like, what your payment was.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. It's like you're lying.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you write the real thing?

[Josh Johnson]

I try to write the real thing so I remember the real thing. I've had to pay people before for, like, a service. Like, I'll pay someone and it'll be like a studio, like a music studio.

[Trevor Noah]

And.

[Josh Johnson]

And so I'll just say studio time. I don't say sandwich.

[Trevor Noah]

That's boring. You gotta say sandwich, Josh. That's what makes Venmo fun. What crime would you perform is when you. Who, me?

[Eugene]

Yeah. I feel like crime is a performer. If I had to pick planned. There's crystals, there's questions.

[Trevor Noah]

If I had to pick what I think I would be best at if it was committing a crime, I. I think I've. I. I've always thought I'd be, like, a good getaway driver. That's what I would pick.

[Josh Johnson]

So, like, aiding and abetting would be.

[Trevor Noah]

Getting away the get, like the driver. I'd just be the driver. We jump in, drive you, like the transporter, those kinds of things. Yeah. I'm like, I think I would. I would do that. I think I would be. I think I'd be really good.

[Josh Johnson]

I'm just. I'm just going off of the court term like. Like, I think you'd be, like, aiding and abetting a heist, like a robbery.

[Trevor Noah]

Wouldn't you just be part of it if you. If you're the driver, is that what they. They give you less of a sentence?

[Josh Johnson]

I'm positive they give you less of a sentence because sometimes there are people who have the plausible deniability of, like. Especially if you're. If you're just like. Like criminals and we. We aren't boys. So then I get pulled in to do this thing. I can be like, hey, he put a gun in my head. I was just chilling.

[Eugene]

But if there's Four people that go, we did not.

[Trevor Noah]

You could also just say, like, you were just driving these people.

[Josh Johnson]

You didn't know why. Yeah, yeah, I'm a.

[Trevor Noah]

It's an Uber.

[Josh Johnson]

It's a very tough.

[Trevor Noah]

I wonder if you could get away with that. Yeah, I wonder if you could. I wonder if you could be an Uber driver who's planning to rob a bank with your crew.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You wait outside a place, they jump in, you run, and then if they catch you. No. But if they like you, you go, like, I thought it was my fare.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I wonder if that would. I wouldn't want you. I'd get you excused for my jury. That's what I would do.

[Josh Johnson]

That is also a thing.

[Trevor Noah]

You're a skeptical person here, Jeremy.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, people. People have done a crime and then got in an Uber. And, yeah, the Uber driver was like, guys, I. I don't know this person.

[Trevor Noah]

At all, but why did he give you five stars? Nobody gives five stars. What crime would you commit?

[Eugene]

I think already being a comedian, you're committing the biggest crime of them all.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn. By doing what?

[Eugene]

Making them believe that what you say is real. You've thought about this.

[Trevor Noah]

When did that start, by the way?

[Eugene]

What? Stand up.

[Josh Johnson]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm saying, like, when did that start?

[Eugene]

Like, you know, podcasting.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

To radio presenters.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

Is a crime. It shouldn't exist.

[Josh Johnson]

Okay.

[Eugene]

Yeah. Because they're thinking, this is. I have a boss, I got voice training, I read. Then next thing you know, you know what the thing is. Which crime would you. You know me, I work for a living. So already this. In another planet, alternate universe, the crime.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But what I'm. What I'm going back to is the stand up thing.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

When did that start? I don't know. How long have you been doing stand up, Eugene?

[Eugene]

Sure, maybe I'm drinked. 50 years. Almost 17.

[Trevor Noah]

17 years, Josh.

[Josh Johnson]

I am at almost 13.

[Trevor Noah]

13 years. Yeah. So same 17.

[Josh Johnson]

17.

[Trevor Noah]

17. Maybe 18. No, we start at the same time, so whatever your number is, must be my number. But I remember a time when, like, comedy was the thing that wasn't real, and you would say it on stage, and then one day, comedy was the thing that was real. That even if it wasn't real. Does this make sense?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. I feel like some of that happened with, like, Pryor. Cause he was telling us his real life.

[Trevor Noah]

You think? Oh, with Richard Pryor.

[Josh Johnson]

And I think that he was telling us his real life, and he was, like, giving us cultural takes off of it in a way that hadn't it had been very Dangerfield up until that point? It had been very like, I have a shtick. Or here's like, my character on stage.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Or even if I am actually married, I'm not talking about my wife. I'm talking about the idea of a wife. And Richard Pryor was like, no, this is what I do when I'm not on stage. This is where I come from. This is also how I actually feel when you. When you see me in the. In the street and, like, something racist happens, this is how I feel about it. So then everything with Richard Pryor, even if he was embellishing now, he'd literally have to talk about, like, a person flying for you to not think. He wasn't talking about the twinkling doggood. He started talking about, like, his life. Like, that was him. And I think even if people did it, you know, before him, he was one of the first people to get popular doing it. So he gets kind of like a credit for doing it at such a high level.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you remember when your comedy became more about the real Cause I. Cause I. Let me think of when I first saw your comedy. First time I saw Josh Johnson's comedy, I think it was around just before when you joined the Daily show. And you weren't surreal, but you were definitely doing stuff that wasn't, like, real real.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, it was, like, very silly and. Oh, thank good you saw. Oh, man. This man saw me just in time. If you had seen me a year.

[Trevor Noah]

Ago, two weeks before.

[Josh Johnson]

If you had seen me two weeks before getting a dead one. We didn't even know each other like this.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, what do you mean? What do you mean?

[Josh Johnson]

Because I was like. You start out, and you're like a version of yourself, but you're like. You're such a baby in the things that you like doing, and you're such a baby in what you even know works for you. So now if you gave me, like, 10 topics and you told me to write 10 jokes off of them, or if you asked me if they relate to 10 stories in my life, I could find that, and I could find how that relates to an audience. If you did it right before you met me, maybe the day before you met me, I'd be like, ah, ooh. I'm just keep working at the grocery store because this seems too difficult.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't know, man. I feel like maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like you've always been a. I can't imagine you not being. Not this version of Comedian, but not this version of Josh. Like, I'm yet to meet a good comedian who I don't think I could meet as themselves as a child.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, that's. That's interesting. That's. That's very interesting.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, I've never heard, like, what was little Josh like? You know what I mean?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, it was. You know what it is now, to your point, is that I feel like I. It took me, if you want to talk about, like, a journey. It took me up until now to find the place in the jigsaw where I fit in.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay?

[Josh Johnson]

So it's like I've changed the way that people change from kid to adult, but I haven't changed fully. And so, like, it was me not fitting for the entirety of my life up until two years ago. And now I like everything that. Everything I know to do that's, like, true to me makes sense now, as opposed to, like, I was a version of. Cause, ooh, the story I told you when I was in. When I was in college, I went to, like, my first bar, and I was like, ooh, y', all, this markup bad. Y' all know if we just buy the bottle at the store, we could have a. We could. Y' all could get so much drink, easy. And so I'm not even drinking, and I'm ruining everybody's time because I'm like, guys, no. Y' all saw at the store where this bottle was $13, but the cocktail $13. So, like, this is crazy, right? And then everyone's just holding their Drake, like, yeah, yeah. And now I know where to do that. And it's like, oh, yeah, now you aimed it. Now I've aimed it to where it's like, I'm not doing it all the time to everyone, to everything. And I've aimed it at like, okay, this is a thing you say for stage. And not even every stage. Cause when you do a comedy club, there'll also be people being like, oh, yeah, they are making me buy two drinks at an insane market. This is what you save for. Like, you're doing an outdoor event. You're doing a state fair.

[Trevor Noah]

It's like your inside voice and stage voice.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

That's essentially what it is, 100%.

[Eugene]

Do you apply the same logic when you think of. Maybe you see a comedian or an actor, then you go, you know, your uncle tells the same stories, and you pay him nothing. You mean, like, about the funniest people added the markup? Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, I used to think that. And then I started to understand, at least for me, the difference between being a comedian and being a funny person. So I often tell people I'm. And I mean this genuinely. I'm not the funniest person I have known in my life ever, ever, ever. Like, by far, by far, by far. There are too many people in my world where I go, thank you.

[Eugene]

I've seen you. You have moments.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you so much.

[Eugene]

When you put on the person boots.

[Trevor Noah]

Man, this is why you got to have good friends. Thank you, man. Thank you so much.

[Eugene]

When you're also in your insecure moments, I think you're the funniest when you like, how's my afro today?

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man. That actually wasn't a joke, but okay. Thank you.

[Josh Johnson]

Ooh. Actually, that wasn't. While we're on the topic of the afro, one thing I'm very jealous about with you is that. Cause this is my thing. Look, look. Just between us, right?

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I was doing.

[Eugene]

I'm here to.

[Josh Johnson]

I was doing an afro for a long time, and what I was doing was, like, not correct. Like, it was like falling off of my head a little bit. Cause it was getting so big that the right side was bigger than the left side. And it was just. It was. My mom would tell me I looked like a spacesh, right? And then. And then Trevor goes all natural.

[Trevor Noah]

You know how bad your hair has to be for your mom to roast it? Cause moms are the last people to ever see anything wrong about you in life.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And your mom was like, hey, what's going on, spaceship boy?

[Eugene]

What's up?

[Trevor Noah]

If the battle star hasn't arrived, I.

[Josh Johnson]

Would go home and my mom would ask me what the plan was. And I just had.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait. Okay, so I remember this afro.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But what was the. So look at the spaceship.

[Josh Johnson]

When you started growing out your hair. But you had, like, a plan. You were like, oh, okay, I'm gonna grow it out. And you were, like, reasonable about it. That was what, like, really clued me into what I was doing.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, no, no. I think you're being kind. I didn't have. I never. Cause remember where it started? Covid was like the real. The real kickoff, right? That's the jump off. That's when my hair starts growing again. Up until then, I was like, you gotta cut your hair. Gotta cut your hair. Gotta cut your hair. Gotta cut your hair.

[Josh Johnson]

For work.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, for work and for school and for, like. Everyone tells you, cut your hair, cut your hair, cut your hair. There's a certain way to look. Cut your hair. Cut your hair. Cut your hair. Cut your hair. Covid comes. Can't cut your hair. Can't cut your hair. Can't cut your. Then we're like, deep into the pandemic. No one's cut their hair. Then restrictions started, like, calming down a little bit. People were like, all right, maybe you can go to a barber. Maybe you can. But I was like, I don't know, man. Don't want to sit in a chair. And then people are coughing on me, and now I'm in a. I was like, I don't want to risk it for a haircut. There's no haircut in my world that is worth dying for.

[Eugene]

Okay, okay.

[Josh Johnson]

This is how you could tell somebody has a good face, because they're like, there's no haircut worth dying for. No, no, no.

[Trevor Noah]

You don't know. Worth dying for when there are people where you. Josh, is like, some of you should die.

[Josh Johnson]

No, no. I'm just saying that, like, this is a person who's put together where it's like, oh, it's just hair. There are some people that are hanging off by thread who are like, my hair. My suit got a bit.

[Eugene]

You know what I mean?

[Josh Johnson]

Because they just know they're working with less.

[Trevor Noah]

I hear you, but what I'm saying is this was death we were talking about. Remember this? This is death.

[Eugene]

Yeah. We're going to booty calls, my man.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. And what happened to some of them? They died because of that.

[Eugene]

Some of them have babies.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. But some Covid babies. Some of them are dead.

[Eugene]

Those things are wild.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So. So this is what I'm. Okay, so this is. What I'm saying is we were all on in this. In this journey together. Right. I think the difference between you and I was that because I was, like, on camera all the time, there were more people who felt like they couldn't just let me go on with, like, like, someone. Someone along the lines, randomly was like, hey, man, at least get a lineup. That's what someone would say.

[Eugene]

Somebody said that?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Someone would be like, same things you say to me. You'd be like, yo, man, at least. Yo, Come on, man. At least. You know, people would be like, look like someone's child. Just look like someone's child. That's what they would say to me right now, I think the only difference between you and I is because you were not in front of the camera at that time.

[Josh Johnson]

Sure, sure.

[Trevor Noah]

Nobody was like, you weren't shaming other people. You were just shaming yourself.

[Josh Johnson]

Yes, yes.

[Trevor Noah]

With the Spaceship box haircut.

[Josh Johnson]

Because it would be like, I would do, like, a virtual live show or like a whatever. And then people in the chat would be like a. These are people who paid a dollar to get into the thing. And they'd be like, hey, my man. Like, I know this time been rough on everybody. I know. Like, it would. It would be like that, damn, Josh.

[Trevor Noah]

You'Re a strong man. I would feel so insecure. Josh and I used to roll, and we both had. At some point, it looked like the theme of the tour that we were on was unruly hair. But Josh's hair got so big and weird that sometimes he'd be on stage and, you know, when the cameras, like, got a shot of you, the background would be black. But Josh's hair was so big, it had three different colors. The hair closest to his head was the darkest.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then it would get lighter and lighter. But because of the background and the darkness of his hair, it looked like Josh had. There was nothing. No, it looked like there was nothing. And on top of it was like a floating. He looked like he was wearing one of those Russian hats, you know, those furry hats.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You look like you're wearing one of those Russian furry hats.

[Josh Johnson]

Because I did a thing that was just out of Pandemic that was like. It was at the Cellar.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And they did a live stream slash, like. Like, taping of it. And they had extra lights because they had cameras. And so then those extra lights. I saw it later, and I. I see what you were talking about. I was like, ah, this is. And it.

[Trevor Noah]

It looked like you literally put on that hat. It was like your thing.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Josh, you're on in five minutes.

[Josh Johnson]

Hold on, let me get my hat. Yeah, because then I think when you. The first time you got a cut from how it had grown was when I was like, oh, life could be different.

[Trevor Noah]

Life's very different.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

No, for you now, I mean, like, life is very, very. Life is different in every way I can think of. It's been so much fun watching it from my perspective, because I've known, like, multiple versions of Josh in. In how life is, like, responding to you, If. If I can put it that way.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. No, that.

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, so I knew that Joshu. You know, I met you. You were already working at. You were working at Jimmy Fallon's show when I met you, right?

[Josh Johnson]

No, no, I had just left.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so you just left.

[Josh Johnson]

So, I mean, I was, like, touring. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But I knew you as, like, okay, comedian. Was like, Doing things and whatever. But you were this. This guy who was like, hey, man, I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm seeing what the world is gonna throw my way. I'm just trying to hustle. I'm writing a joke, doing a thing here. And then, you know, then you went through the hair phase, and it was like, all right, I'm still hustling. And also, you see my hair. And I don't know where this is going. Yeah, I don't know where this is going.

[Josh Johnson]

And not hair.

[Eugene]

It's a hair.

[Trevor Noah]

And then. Oh, and then Josh went through this phase. Yo, then Josh started lifting. You remember when you started lifting?

[Eugene]

Yeah, because at the time, you had nunchucks.

[Josh Johnson]

Yo, this man. Yeah, it was around then.

[Trevor Noah]

Yo, yo, this, man.

[Josh Johnson]

This is where it's a horrible time to meet a person, because he met me during nunchucks, which is also just like, oh, this is a guy that.

[Trevor Noah]

That is one of the most random moments to meet a human being. Why did you.

[Eugene]

With that chain?

[Trevor Noah]

Why did you have nunchucks?

[Josh Johnson]

I was like, look, you can't have a gun, but people are crazy in New York. And I don't know. Like, we thought. Like, a lot of people thought was, like, low key, the end of the world. We were just being chill about it. So I was like, I need something.

[Eugene]

And you thought nunchuck were the solution.

[Josh Johnson]

And I can't get a sword. And so, like, I'm like, let me just have something that's, like, a little bit. And then I saw the news report, because it was a news report about how they had lifted. There was, like, a nunchuck ban in New York City. Yeah, it was for a while. And then when they lifted it, I was like. I was like, hey, then we ride, and if I get good, then I at least get it. Extends my safety. One more arm. Do you know what I mean?

[Eugene]

Wait, hold on.

[Josh Johnson]

I could defend myself one more arm's length away.

[Trevor Noah]

Just one further.

[Eugene]

Yeah, I think if nunchucks work, cops would have had them.

[Josh Johnson]

Sure.

[Trevor Noah]

But they do have a version of nunchucks. They have the baton.

[Josh Johnson]

They have the same.

[Trevor Noah]

The baton is like a version of a nunchuck for a less skilled individual.

[Eugene]

And you know why the baton works?

[Trevor Noah]

Because it's like. It's. It's like. Idiot.

[Eugene]

You know why it works? No.

[Trevor Noah]

Because it's simple.

[Eugene]

Let's let the nunchuck expert here tell us why a baton. Would you want to go in a fight with me if I had a baton? And then you had nunchucks, who do.

[Trevor Noah]

You think would win?

[Josh Johnson]

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's how I'll put it. Okay. The baton is more practical. The nunchuck is crazier. Would you rather fight someone who maybe isn't skilled.

[Trevor Noah]

This is what I'm talking about.

[Josh Johnson]

Or would you rather fight someone who, you know, bites? Cause nunchuck is the bite. It's like, I might hit you. I might hit me. I'm crazy. You might know.

[Eugene]

That's why there's a phrase called blunt instrument, because anyone can use it. What you have is nunchuck is. Requires a skill set. Me, if I'm angry enough with the baton, you are dead. You have to know a certain level of skill to manage nunchucks, because nunchucks are almost like a boomerang, because people never account for the fact that you have to wait for it to come back, and it only comes back if it doesn't hit anything.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

Boomerang goes. Then it goes. Goes.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

Then you hold. Yeah. What? Nunchuck is the.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

Then you hope. Better believe that you're going to be hoping it hits something because it can also hit you. You've experienced that when nunchucks come back.

[Trevor Noah]

Are you good at nunchucks now? No. Oh, God, what a waste.

[Josh Johnson]

Not at all. No, no, no.

[Trevor Noah]

I thought you at least got to like the arm stage.

[Josh Johnson]

I got to the arm stage, but the arm stage is half. That's a wrist away from me. I need to be good at the. You know what I mean? If I'm good at this. When you really good at the Bruce Lee stuff, that somebody could still get very close to you.

[Eugene]

Yes. But here's my thing with nunchucks.

[Trevor Noah]

While you're going shoo, shoo, hooshoo, hooshoo, hooshoo.

[Eugene]

That doesn't account for you hitting anyone.

[Josh Johnson]

No, it does. It does. Because then if you're in here. If you're in here.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Bow like you swing it out. Yeah. Now you can't see it, so you don't know what direction I'm about to swing it from under my arm.

[Eugene]

And let's say you hit me. Bam. And then what happens to the nunchak that left? Because there's two of them. There's one that you're holding.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

And there's one that left.

[Trevor Noah]

That's the one that hits you.

[Eugene]

What happens to the part that hit me?

[Josh Johnson]

The part that hit you goes down, but now that it's down, I can hit you in the back of the Head.

[Trevor Noah]

You see this guy was in it. You know what I'm loving?

[Eugene]

I've seen Joshua. Those nunchucks.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. You don't injured it.

[Eugene]

He self defensed himself more than he tried.

[Josh Johnson]

Protected himself from himself 100%.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what I'm imagining? I'm imagining the person who was walking through New York City seeing you with your spaceship hair and the nunchucks. And then they were like, I need to go to self defense training. Cause New York is full of crazy people.

[Eugene]

No.

[Josh Johnson]

Cause I'll tell you right now, the hair saved my life. Because then I'm over here practicing. And I bought two practice ones. I bought one that was like foam, but the foam one is like it's gonna break in a day. Like you can't.

[Eugene]

That's how dangerous these things are.

[Josh Johnson]

Do you know what I mean? The foam one, you can't. So then you have to use the wooden one because I was never going to buy the metal one. Because the metal. The metal one. You could accidentally kill somebody and now it's swinging from your head, but you're like.

[Eugene]

And you wait for them to accidentally kill someone. Aren't you starting to defend yourself?

[Josh Johnson]

Because, okay, the same way where you're trying to defend yourself, you know how to box. And then you. And then you. And then you punch somebody on the chin, right? But you end up knocking them out and they fall in the way they fall, they die. Right? It's like that could happen. The metal nud Chuck is for murder. Like that one I still don't think should be legal.

[Trevor Noah]

We'll be right back after this short break. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Did you know that Apple Card is designed to help you pay off your balance faster with smart payment suggestions? And because fees don't help you, Apple Card doesn't have any. That's right. No fees. So if your credit card isn't Apple Card, maybe it should be subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 17.99% to 28.24%, based on creditworthiness rates as of October 1, 2025. Existing customers can view their variable APR in the wallet app or card.apple.com terms and [e-mail] this episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Eat well for less. You know how Thanksgiving always sneaks up on you. One minute you're eating leftover Halloween candy, and the next everyone's arguing about who's making what for Thanksgiving dinner.

[Eugene]

Who are you talking to?

[Trevor Noah]

Luckily, Whole Foods Market makes it easy to pull it all together. With great prices on turkey, sales on baking essentials and everyday low Prices from the $3.65 by Whole Foods Market brand, you can actually prep for the holiday without losing your mind or your budgets.

[Eugene]

Yo, why are you speaking like that?

[Trevor Noah]

They've got high quality organic produce and grab and go sides which honestly save your life. When you said you'd bring something and completely forgot to cook.

[Eugene]

Is this an ad? Did you just teleport us into an ad?

[Trevor Noah]

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[Eugene]

Can we go back to the episode?

[Josh Johnson]

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[Josh Johnson]

Loans offered by Netcredit or lending partner banks and services by NetCredit applications subject to review and approval. Learn [e-mail] partners planning a trip this year?

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[Trevor Noah]

What's the what's the first fight you were ever in as a kid? Like the biggest. Like the fight you remember? Did you ever fight?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Well, fight implies a length that I made the fight continue. I was like beat up sometimes as a kid, but I Would try to fight back.

[Trevor Noah]

Who was beating you up?

[Josh Johnson]

Just other kids. And it wasn't even like, were these.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, bullies, bullies, or were these just other kids?

[Josh Johnson]

Two of them were like, bullies, bullies.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. Yeah.

[Eugene]

Okay.

[Josh Johnson]

But the thing is, it's like the same awareness that I think a kid doesn't have of, like, where their elbow is so they knock a glass over is the awareness of, like, strength that I lacked for something I wanted to do. So, like, for instance, there was one time I stood up to a bully. Like, I really stood up to him. And it's like, what was like, wait, wait, wait.

[Trevor Noah]

Set the scene. What was your name? We all remember our bullies names.

[Josh Johnson]

Look, I won't say his name. Yeah, I won't say his name, but it rhymes with wheat.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Josh Johnson]

Pete. And so then, you know, been picking on me.

[Trevor Noah]

So Pete is the bully.

[Josh Johnson]

We got Pete all week, man. You must know one. I don't know one Anyway. But then how old are you? I have to be maybe eight or like nine, something like that. And I had enough of it, right. And I just, like. And I even had, like, a little speech planned. If he, like, came up on me, rolled up on me, messed with me, right? And so I said all the stuff, and then I, like, reared back, which he was also surprised by. This is also how you could tell he was a big kid. Cause he was more surprised than threatened. He was like, wow, something's about to happen. This is crazy. And then I reared back and I punched him as hard as I could. And I managed to punch him, like, in the chin a bit. Like, kind of. Yeah. Like back jaw. Right. And then he grabbed his face. Cause also, when you're a kid and nobody's really hit you or hit you back, it's surprising. So, you know, he's like. And then he walks away. And then as soon as he walks away, I'm like. Like, I'm, like grabbing my head. Cause I. I hadn't, like, put it together that this would hurt. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

No one shows you. I mean, in the movies, they don't show you that.

[Eugene]

And for the most part.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

And look.

[Josh Johnson]

And they're not hurt. Like, Bruce Lee never finished the fight after everybody was down. Was like, ah.

[Eugene]

Ah.

[Josh Johnson]

Like has never happened.

[Trevor Noah]

Jackie Chan did.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

He was the honest fighter.

[Josh Johnson]

He's what got us closer to John Wick. Yeah. Cause John Wick will end the fight and be like, oh. Oh, God.

[Trevor Noah]

I still don't like that he got hit by a car and carried on. That always got me John Wick. Didn't he jump a bit, man? I don't know.

[Josh Johnson]

He jumped a bit, though.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't know. You know what? I really like John Wick?

[Josh Johnson]

The movies.

[Eugene]

The only thing, I also like the Matrix. Yeah, but he's the same guy.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but the difference there is it's not the real world. So I'm. John Wick gets hit by a vehicle, and then he just gets up.

[Eugene]

But it's not the real world. Again, between John Wick and the Matrix.

[Trevor Noah]

No, the Matrix is not the real world. Oh. What I'm saying is, in John Wick.

[Eugene]

John Wick is the real one.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what, Josh? Let's carry on.

[Eugene]

So a geriatric version of Neil.

[Trevor Noah]

Josh, let's carry on. This guy's trying to.

[Eugene]

Where instead of being led by a black man, he's led by a dog. Is more. Much more real than in the Matrix.

[Trevor Noah]

He's in. Cause they said it wasn't. Anyway, so wait, wait. Did Bully ever come back?

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Different day, but, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn.

[Josh Johnson]

And then by then.

[Trevor Noah]

So this isn't like a victory story. This isn't like Josh Johnson.

[Josh Johnson]

No. I won a half a battle, and I lost the next battle. Like, it wasn't even a war. It was just like. Cause I was just an easy target, too. Cause I think I'm openly, like, sensitive, and I am not, like, a big guy. So I didn't have a big. I never had a big frame growing up. So even in high school, the people who picked on me was like, yeah, it's like, easy pickings. Like, I look like I almost don't exist in my clothes. You know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. You're sweet, poetic. You are. You're timid in your vibe, like, just as. Josh. Like, as I've always known you. You're really considerate. You were perfect, like, bully fodder in that way.

[Josh Johnson]

And it doesn't help that I was always like, read. Like, when your head is down from reading, you're a perfect target for anything. I'm, like, reading. I'm, like, reading all the time. I'm, like, reading for fun. And so now I genuinely don't know what's about to happen until the book gets slapped on my hand and then I look up. And I'm sure any bully that saw me was looking at me, and I was looking at them, like, just because I'm. The shock of, like, the book's on the floor, what's about to happen.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what I mean? So. And I. And I Don't think I like, carried an awareness for defense enough ever really. Until. Until maybe like, I really became an adult even being in Chicago. I was like, look, apparently, you know, especially when you go to like some. Some clubs were like on the south side. And people would either you would either know something happened or people would say something had just happened at some point. And so I was like, all right, like, I'll be fine. I'll just run. And then whatever bullet hits me was meant for me.

[Trevor Noah]

Jabby, you were never about that life. You were never like, I'm gonna stand up, fight, do a thing, handle it. No, no.

[Josh Johnson]

Even when I tried to like, roll with other kids that were like, tough. They were even like, you're too sweet for this thing. Like, you're not like a tough. Like, even kids in my neighborhood would be like, yeah, but you're not like.

[Trevor Noah]

I like that thing.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what I mean? No, I genuinely, you know, I look, I. At the time, I looked back on it as like, why is everybody so. What is it? Why is everybody so, like, patronizing?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And now I look at it as. As if like almost. And you know, whatever. This is going to sound however it sounds, but it's like almost by like some truly like, divine design. Everybody that was in my life was put in my life for a reason. Helped keep me on the right path. Even when I wanted to do something bad, they made it so it's like I didn't even have the opportunity. All these things came together. Even the people who pushed me out of their life. It's like their life went in a horrific direction. So it's like they pushed me. It's almost like pushing someone out of the way of a car. Cause I'm like, I'm trying to roll with this kid or be like this kid. And then this kid is like, hey, this is not for you. And then something even ends up happening to that person or they go down a worse path or something. So now that's happened, like, I can be nothing but grateful. Because like, at the time, I'm sure, especially when I used to. This is gonna sound self deprecating and it's not meant to be. But like the realization that I've come to about myself, especially over time is that all of the things about me that I like and that people like are because I'm not conventionally cool. Like, I'm not like a cool guy who is like, wow, I wanna be like that guy the way you wanna be like James Dean. Like, I'm not That type of guy. So if I stop trying to be that type of guy, and I just like, hey, look, I like Rubik's Cubes. I like comic books. I like. And you just become. It's things we've been taught since we were little. The best version of yourself. The best. Like, the most honest version of yourself. That's where all of your cool will come from. Because everyone who likes those things will be like, wow. You openly like those things. Like, I'm like, I'm over here doing the Rubik's Cube when it used to get slapped out your hand. And now people on the Internet are like, he did it in a four seconds. Now it's become a. Yeah, but it's like, if you're like an O. If you're like an OG of that thing. And don't get me wrong, I wasn't even good. So now me watching me do the Rubik's Cube was a waste of time. Cause it wasn't like I was like, hey, Trevor, you wanna see something cool? It'd be like, hey, Trevor, you wanna see something cool?

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Ah.

[Trevor Noah]

Ah.

[Josh Johnson]

Can you mess it up again? Can I restart? It's like that. But then, like I said, everything in life led me to the point, at least in the feeling of about two years ago, where everything fits into place. I felt like I fit in at different points in my life. When I lived in Chicago and started doing comedy, I finally had the conduit. I finally had the vehicle for all these things I had ever been and ever done and ever talked like. And ever.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

[Josh Johnson]

And then found my people and then moved into New York. Felt like. It did feel like a mistake for the first, like, six months. It did. Like, genuinely. It felt like maybe I had made a mistake until I got hired at Fallon. But everyone that I was meeting, I used to do storytelling, open mics, comedy open mics. I used to do variety shows. Like, all this stuff like that.

[Trevor Noah]

Were you working at that time? Doing, like, a job job, as they said?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I was, like, working a grocery.

[Trevor Noah]

Store in New York.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

What type of grocery store?

[Josh Johnson]

The Trader Joe's Variety.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. What were you doing there?

[Josh Johnson]

Everything. Like, I was a cashier. I did everything but fill orders. Cause I was like, y', all, if you make me. Cause they would try. Anytime you have a good attitude and, like, you're on time, so people start trying to give you more responsibility. Cause they're like, this is the person that won't mess it up. But I'm like, y', all, I Know my limit. And if you put me on freezer, y' all are gonna have 6,000 ice creams and no frozen turkey. Like, I'm just. I'm telling you that right now. I don't have that attention to detail, you know? And so I was like, cashier. Didn't wanna become a manager. Didn't wanna become an assistant manager.

[Trevor Noah]

Why not?

[Josh Johnson]

Because in my head, I was like, I thought I had found. And I'm glad I was wrong, because I wouldn't be here now. But I've worked at a couple grocery stores, and I've worked odd jobs and stuff like that. And I found that at least in most situations, I can be happy. And so I was making enough to live. But I hadn't met any of my goals yet. But I was still doing standup at night. And so I was, like, happy, even in unhappiness happy. You know what I mean? Like, you deal with terrible customers, or you, like, you're low on money, so you gotta eat, dude. I've talked about this before, but I knew I was broke in Chicago when they put the door knocker thing for the pizza on there. My roommates and I, we see it's a deal. Cause this place just opened. Yeah, it's five. No, it's three pizzas for $15. So it's like every pizza, $5, whatever. We each order a pizza, we get violently sick. And I knew I was broke. Cause I was like, next day, I'm like, I'm gonna eat one more slice. And then I gotta be done with this place. But, like, in the off chance, I was just sick. And then my roommates even like, what do you mean you were just sick? We all threw up. And I was like, yeah, but look, maybe this slice will be different. And then I'll throw the box away. But, like, I'll have money to just run. I gotta give the slice a chance, man. Yeah. Yeah. And so I just found that I was happy. I was so happy in Chicago, literally just making ends meet, but could not even save money. But I was doing standup at night and figuring myself out and everything. And I feel like now it's just a reminder to stay in that place even if circumstances change. Because now it's like, okay, I'm not completely broke, but what do I need? And it turns out I don't need much. If I can take care of my mom and take care of my aunt and just take care of myself and my girlfriend, put on good shows, nothing else really matters. So that I don't really need that much money. And so now if you don't need that much money, you don't need to do whatever, whatever, whatever. So now some of that noise gets shut out a little bit because yeah, sometimes you'll be in a situation where somebody wants you to do this thing, somebody wants you to do this thing. And if you don't really know what you want, you might end up doing it and not liking it or looking back on and not liking it. And I'm not saying I love everything I've ever done completely, but the path that the Internet and the people that I'm meeting along the way have allowed me is to do things that are completely consistent with how I feel about how my career should go. And building a catalog that I think will like, stand alone, like by itself.

[Trevor Noah]

Something that you're proud of because you wanted to do it for the reasons that you wanted to do it. Which is a unique moment to get to as an artist, but I think as any human on this planet. I was thinking about it this morning, exactly what you're saying. I was, I was in the shower and I was going, are you picturing me in the shower now? So I was in, I was in the shower and I, I had this thought genuinely where I was going. It's hard for people to understand, it's hard for any of us to understand this because money is oftentimes the thing that connects you to all choice, power, whatever it might be. But pursuing money is almost the worst direction you can ever take. Right. If you say to yourself in life, I'm going to pursue money. You could just take money out of an old lady's wallet, then you've, the money is there now. Right. I think what we haven't been taught for the most part because society doesn't oftentimes tell us enough, is that money, especially in a well functioning society, money is a byproduct of a job well done. Yeah. You know, and so if you have the luxury of doing the thing that you love doing and you get to do it well, you'll find that money somehow slips into your ether. It starts to come in and that's like I say, in a well functioning society, as capitalism goes extreme and it deteriorates in its late stage, people now can only earn money from certain things. But when I look at you, I go, it's the perfect example. Like you'll tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like this version of Josh Johnston, like the person we know you as today, you couldn't exist the same if the Internet wasn't what it is now.

[Josh Johnson]

No, no. I think.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you know what I mean?

[Josh Johnson]

I know exactly what you mean. And I think about that a lot because I had found some mainstream and legacy media success, but not enough to live the way that I'm living or make the choices that I make. You know what I mean? Like, I had done Fallon, I had done Conan. I got like a Comedy Central half hour. I've done the route. Like I got new faces for jfl. Like I did a lot of the route stuff you're supposed to do.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, you went.

[Josh Johnson]

It was like an up and comer.

[Trevor Noah]

There's all the stations along the way. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And then there's a place that you end up. For some people it's after they do JFL new faces. For some people it's after they get their half hour. And for some people it's like even after they've been on a sitcom or something like that, where now there's like, there is no more up and coming. You've come.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Josh Johnson]

And so what does that do? I mean, yeah, you're just like, you.

[Trevor Noah]

Can'T win new artists anymore.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. They give it to you one time and if you lose the time, you're up for it.

[Trevor Noah]

That's it.

[Josh Johnson]

You're also not gonna. You're just, look, I'm new to people, but I'm saying the ways in which an industry could elevate, could elevate a person along the way. I had got a lot of that stuff. And then there was a gap between does he have his own show? Is he writing a show, Is he selling shows? Is he a touring headlining comedian? Is he. And so there was a gap there. The Internet closed that gap. The people closed that gap. And that's why I have a bit more confidence. Because one thing I'll say about the era that we live in now versus even 25 years ago is that the industry used to be able to close that gap for you. They're like, you are this a list star? And we're gonna treat you like this a list star when you're actually really young just cause we, like as a studio, believe in you. And you used to just be signed to like one studio. And so anyway, the industry used to close that gap. But then if industry betrayed you, blacklisted you, you'll see McCarthy stuff, whatever. Once that thing happened, you didn't have connection to the people. So even if the people liked you, they'd be like, oh, why haven't you been in a movie in forever, and you'd be blackballed because no one picked up my calls and no one's calling me. But that can never happen again. Because if you have connection to people and if you've built community, then you'll always be a version of what you're doing now, especially if you're not doing it to be number one. And the thing that we're lucky about, what makes us different from sports is that there can really be no number one. And so it's like, because there's no number one, you could just be your number one. You can be the best you. And for some people, for plenty of people, Trevor Noah is like the goat of comedy. Right. And it taps into their sensibility. Your timing is their timing of how they think. Your humor, it connects with everyone that. That follows you, that believes that you are the best of all time. There's gonna be a Chris Rock as the goat. Dave Chappelle is the goat. Like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. But because it's not a foot race, there is no clock. As long as you don't. There's no clock. So as long as you don't convince yourself that there's a clock, you can just carry on. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so it's like, I wanna be the best comedic writer ever. I also know that's not gonna happen, but I know that it will happen in someone's mind that connects with my work, and that's enough. And I really want it to happen. I want it to happen in the way where everybody says it. It's not gonna happen. But, like, at the same time, chasing that now, like, money is like.

[Trevor Noah]

But that's what I mean.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

It sounds to me like you fell in love with the process, Essentially.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Because the process is like the reward that will always yield a return. Right. If you fall in love with the process in your life, then the outcome just becomes the bonus at the end of it, you know? And I've seen this with friends who like cooking. Like, they try to get me into cooking because I like food. I like eating food. And then they would go, like, you should learn how to cook. And then when I would try to learn how to cook, even if it came out right at the end, I was like, I don't like this.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I like eating the food.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what I mean?

[Josh Johnson]

Cause when you eat the food and you didn't cook it, you're not sweaty. Yeah, that's what I'm now, a sweaty.

[Trevor Noah]

Version of me is eating about man jab. I just be. I just be like, yo, man, I get to the end of this journey.

[Eugene]

What are you guys cooking?

[Trevor Noah]

But if you. What do you mean?

[Eugene]

That makes you sweaty?

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, just processed.

[Trevor Noah]

You know how it is, man.

[Josh Johnson]

If you.

[Trevor Noah]

If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. Oh, you don't sweat when you cook. Maybe that's why.

[Eugene]

What are you guys cooking?

[Trevor Noah]

Just anything.

[Eugene]

Give me an example of what you made that made you go, hey.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene]

One.

[Trevor Noah]

One day I was trying to make a stew. I've only tried it once, and one time I was trying to make a stew, and then it just involved me with a pot, with water, with ingredients, with the thing.

[Eugene]

Did you close the lid?

[Trevor Noah]

No, I had to keep opening the lid to see what was bubbling. I had to keep closing things out of cooking. Yeah. And in that process, how close were.

[Eugene]

You to this lid?

[Trevor Noah]

I wasn't measuring, Eugene. I wasn't measuring my distance to the. Maybe this is why I'm not a good cook. I was just, like, opening, closing, opening and closing.

[Josh Johnson]

It would be very funny if you were. Laid it in too close, and you were like, man, cooking is hot. I'm like, a lot.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but what I mean is, like, I don't think there's anything wrong with liking or not liking certain things, but I think people take for granted that if you fall in love, if you find a passion for the process, then the outcome just becomes a bonus. And if you love the outcome, then your joy is always going to oscillate between, yeah, good and bad, good and bad.

[Eugene]

I think that point of view is a privilege. We've had this conversation, but in another form. Yeah, always like that point. Making that point. You can only make it from a point of privilege. So if people with a skill, a rare skill, a talent, like a surgeon who earns hundreds of thousands of dollars a month can say, you know, I just like operating on people. But you're like, no, no, I don't know what I'm gonna eat tonight. So you can pursue your passion.

[Josh Johnson]

Yes. When you talk about money. No.

[Eugene]

Yes, I'm talking about money versus when people say no. Yes.

[Josh Johnson]

Just.

[Eugene]

I love the process.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Eugene]

So the average person, I think this is my opinion, does not have the luxury to think about their passion.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Eugene]

But they're thinking about, what am I gonna do now? What am I gonna eat now? And obviously, when you tell the story about how you grew up and when you were eating the pizza that made you throw up, if Someone would have walked into that dorm room while you were eating $5 pizza and told you, just enjoy. Just enjoy the process, not about the money. Yeah, my man.

[Josh Johnson]

No, that is what people said. Yeah, they were like that. Like, that's.

[Eugene]

And what did you feel?

[Josh Johnson]

No, but I guess I'm. I'm thinking also, once again, from privilege is either privilege or experience. Because I think saying fall in love with the process is a thing that comes from the experience of, like, if you have. Sometimes it's just good advice from somebody who did it the other way. So, yes, it's from, like, a point of privilege to say, like, don't worry about money. And I'm not saying don't worry about money. I'm saying people have put me in a position where I don't worry about money the same way. So.

[Trevor Noah]

And I'm also saying. I'm also saying I don't necessarily. I think it might be a luxurious way of experiencing your own mind, but I don't think it's an unattainable luxury. Right. And here's why. I'll say this. When you started comedy, if you remember your journey, it was not paying anything. Comedy literally paid us. No, there wasn't even an idea of the possibility. When we were doing comedy in South Africa, starting out, the. The concept of getting paid by anyone or anything. Yeah, we paid to do comedy. There wasn't even like a 20 bucks. Well done. No, that came over time. Right. But we fell in love with the process. And I. What I mean by that is I don't think everything has to be contained in one space. Right, Right. So when you look at somebody who likes knitting, I would always be fascinated watching somebody knit. And I'll go, like, what are you doing? And they're like, I'm knitting. And I'm like, oh, are you trying to make something? And they go like, well, sometimes they even go, I'll see what it is. I'm just starting with this block for now, and then it will grow into something else, and it'll become something, and then I'll decide what I want to make. But they go, I like knitting. Knitting is the thing that they actually enjoy. On the other side of knitting is the garment that you've created. Do you get what I'm saying? And so what I'm saying is it's noisy. That's why I completely agree with you. It's noisy. It is hard to appreciate process. It is hard to appreciate passion when you're hungry. Right. But it is those people sometimes who are the Ones that'll make you the ones who can do it in those moments. They're sometimes the people who inspire me the most, because they can and they do. Like, when my family was at its worst, my mom loved gardening. We didn't have anything. We did, like, literally. I remember nights where it's like, we're eating more panty worms because it was, like, the cheapest thing you could buy. It's like a dried caterpillar type. How would you. Is it caterpillar?

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

That's like, the only thing we could afford for a moment. Then at some point, we couldn't even get more panty worms. All we could get was Morocco. That was like it. And this isn't like a long. It's not years in my life, but, like, a few months. I just remember we couldn't afford meats, and we couldn't afford a certain type of protein. And so now we're buying, like, grass, essentially, is how it seemed to me as a kid. Because when you introduced this to me late in life, I'm just like this.

[Eugene]

Eating kale and quinoa all day.

[Trevor Noah]

It's ironic, by the way, because I remember the first time someone came with kale in America. Then I was like, I'm not going back. I escaped this trap. I'm not going back to this. But Morocco and kale are very. I still think, like a. You know what I mean?

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But the thing that amazed me was she still found joy in her processes. Just doing something in a garden, going. And I think that's what you're talking about. When I listen to you, there's an element of Josh Johnson that's just like. You're just obsessed and in love with the process that you're pursuing.

[Josh Johnson]

Cause then it's like the thing. I guess, if you were to put yourself back in different moments. Right. Because don't get me wrong, I am never. I am never. It's never lost on me that, like, I am the exception and not the rule. And so I even tell people, I'm like, look, everybody's on their own journey. I don't want you to think that, like, there's some aspect of, if I can do it, you can do it. And then there's also an aspect of if I can do it, you can do it. Being weaponized to keep people in a bad position.

[Trevor Noah]

I hate that. If I.

[Josh Johnson]

Cause people have said that to me who were tall, and now I'm like, what do you mean, dunk? And they're like, look, you work hard enough, you Work on your game. If I can do it, you can do it. Swish. And then I'm like, all right, I believe you. And then brick, brick, brick, brick, brick. Because I actually can't. And I also, to be fair, don't love basketball enough to, like, learn and fall in love with process enough to even see if I can. Right. But now if you're talking about. If you're talking about a system where people can make their money or just have like a life, there's just have what they want. It's so much more profitable to keep that as a carrot that you hang in front of someone than it is to just let them have it. Because if everyone's okay, less people are rich, which is like a side note thing. But the process thing that I fall in love with and that I think is like, so important is that it started so much longer before anything was working out. The same way that, like, I've been my, like, the way that I've been myself and like, weird. And it didn't. Oof. Did work for, like, all of life until like, a little bit of college. It worked. Cause a little bit of college, I'm finally meeting people who are also kind of like me. Then it worked in Chicago, I started doing comedy. That's the thing I should have been doing this entire time. Then it worked for a little while in New York. And then, like, I had my ups and downs and now it works in a big way because I'm finally, like, doing everything I think that I was meant to do. And so the reason I say meant to do. Yeah, yeah. Cause then I think that it started in Chicago when I started doing comedy, but I'm working at the grocery store and I'm like working on bits all day, but then also having conversations all day. Cause you. Okay, so you would be on register for like two hours. They do a two hour block. So now I'm talking to people. And I'm not necessarily running bits by people, but I am getting to know you. Get to know your regulars, you get to watch stuff. And now it's like it's your audience. Yeah. You're just feeding off of like, all these interactions that are so interesting and especially if you decide to be personable, because I worked with plenty of people who decided to be miserable in that moment. But in my head I'm like, guys, I'm here. There's nowhere else I can be. And so this is either a waste of my time, which means it's a waste of my life, or it's My life. So now I'm just here. So then let me talk to this person, ask them how their day is. Let me. Have you had these? Because I haven't had these. I know that's bad to say because I work here, but are these good? Because I'm gonna get them if they. And now I become the person that's percival enough that people got in my line. And so now you build a rapport with these people. And then when I'm over here stocking the freezer, stock in the fridge, I'm thinking about bits, or I'm thinking about what people said to me. So now when I go up in Chicago, everyone's like, oh, you don't ever repeat, or you don't ever. And it's like. Cause I'm excited about, like, I'm excited about what this thing is that happened today. Or I'm excited about building on this idea that I had last week, but now I've reworded it or, like, whatever. And so it seems like a wealth of, like, oh, you must just be writing all day. And in my head, I was like, I am, but I'm not. Like, it just came from such a genuine place. It didn't become more like proper, proper writing until Fallon. Cause I was a monologue writer at Fallon.

[Trevor Noah]

That's when you had to get into the Croft of it.

[Josh Johnson]

Now it's like 150 jokes a day. Or, you know, like. Or you're just. You're even writing. When I was at Fallon, I was so thirsty to get a joke on. I was writing jokes in the hope that, like, Jimmy got lost in the building and then, like, wandered in my office and was like, hey, how you doing? I'm like, oh, I'm great. I got a whole page of jobs, you know, I mean, like, I'm, like, going crazy. Cause also, it's like, your first job, so you're extra. And, like.

[Trevor Noah]

And it's like, major job.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, major job. Yeah. And then I got hired at Daily Show. Like, when you hired me, I was like, okay, this is a chance. Especially because of how collaborative the process is. This is a chance to take everything I've been writing, all the ideas I'm always having, all the conversations that I have, and, like, hopefully apply them in real time to whatever the news of the day is.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Do you know what I mean?

[Eugene]

Right, right.

[Josh Johnson]

And then it, like, yeah, I was writing it Daily show, which then taught me how to tell stories better of things that people had no context for. So, like, watching you I was able to be like, oh, you know what? There's this thing that happened to me that people won't have any frame of reference for. How do I tell them about that? So when you would talk about South Africa or when you would talk about your travels, and you're talking to Americans who are the perfect audience of, like, untraveled people. Like, everything is new. They'll be like. They'll be like, malta, Is it chocolate? They, like. They, you know, we don't know. Cause it's like. Cause also you. You were the first person that, like, showed me how big the world was, in a way. And, like, talking to you, talking to Selle Boho, talking to all these people showed me how well the world gets on in spite of and sometimes without the US because growing up here, you're like, this is the lie that keeps things the way they are, maybe forever, is that you are taught that the US Is number one. We're number one because we deserve it. We're number one on merit, but we're also number one in everything. And so if anything is bad here, best believe it's worse somewhere else in the world. Cause they're not even as good as us. So if you are hungry in America, imagine how hungry you'd be in Mexico. Imagine how hungry. And you could even point at other Western countries. It's like they would do, like, I had teachers that would do this, where they'd be like, australia, nice and everything. But what do they build? What adventures do they have? Because it teaches you to have being. I don't even know where you learn it. But being the center of entertainment, especially, and entertainment being such a strong. Like a strong conveyor of stories and stuff like that. It teaches you a sort of American excellence that probably even used to be earned, but then has slowly been slipping away over time. And now your assumption is that no matter how bad things get here, we could have, like, a civil war, and you'd still point at another country and be like, well, they're having a coup. And it's like, yeah, but look at the 99 other countries that are fine today on, like, a regular Wednesday. And so rather than teaching you out of your supposed, like, excellence and number one. Cause it's also a very inconvenient truth that, like, the number one title comes from, like, just like a boxer who's number one and has a team that's built up of people from all sorts of backgrounds with disciplines, there's a number one ness that gets lost in that. Oh, yeah, well, we needed the scientists to come here, we needed the engineers to come here, we taught some of our people. But then they went over and learned from other people and then came back, number one is just number one. Cuz we're number one. And so then that keeps people in the thing of like, you'll see where another country, another western country as well, so you don't even have to worry about like communism, socialism, whatever. Another western country will figure something out and we still won't change. Because the idea of looking at someone else as an example is unacceptable. And so being around you and being around people who had a different experience of life, being around your opioid, being around all these people was the first time that I was like, not only is the world obviously much bigger, but comedy is so much bigger. Cause now it made me curious enough to start watching Comedians where I just needed the subtitles. Cause I was just like, oh yeah. I was like, let me just like.

[Trevor Noah]

Yep, Joe Opio subtitles.

[Eugene]

I'm with you.

[Trevor Noah]

We gotta get a dig in at Joe. Come on, man.

[Josh Johnson]

But that's, but like, so every. I said all that to say that like all of that, it's not. No, no. It's like, it's not lost on me that not only have I been incredibly fortunate, I've been given a lot of opportunities. And then even within those opportunities, I was like, put in the right place at the right time to have the right experience to make what I'm doing now possible.

[Eugene]

And that's the part, see, that's the part where whenever you get great advice about pursuing your passion, no one ever says at the end. That's the long way of saying, do the thing that you can, when you can, then someone might select you to be the person that can and ends up becoming the person that will. And also what I realized was when you were telling your story, because I worked in retail for a long time and I realized I had the most amount of fun doing comedy when I was in retail. Before I knew it was comedy, there was no pressure, you had to refresh your jokes. Yeah, there's someone coming in, in and out all the time, but they've seen you so many times and you, you can't say the same thing to them. And there you are now at Fallon, now you're doing this thing for a living. And they've said to you don't have to worry about the money now, just, just do this thing. And then all of a sudden becomes difficult. And I thought there was a phase where comedy was Making fun of people that are doing their best to try and survive. You know, there would be times people like, hey, imagine, have you. You guys coming back from work? Hey, work. How's work? Oh, every day. Traffic. And I'm like, yo, when did we get here? Like, I started hating the way I was doing some comedy because I would. And I'd realize it was all about. For me personally, it was about fitting in. Because even in retail, when you're working there, you realize that you're not fitting in here. Then when you get out, you're like, how shitty was that job? But it came with how people measure success, maybe, you know.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. And it also just comes from a place of, like, this is how you're supposed to feel.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Josh Johnson]

And it's like, if you keep falling for how you're supposed to feel, I mean, that's very convenient for someone. You'll keep buying what you're supposed to buy. You'll keep voting for who you're supposed to vote for. You'll keep. And then you just have to. There's a level of curiousness that I understand that when you're hungry. Because I've been hungry. When you're hungry, you're thinking about hungry. So you're not thinking about some of this, like, the Hoity Toy stuff. And it doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you a dumb person. It doesn't make you less than. It's just literally. That's why it's so convenient and so important to keep you, like, not just down, but, like, to keep a controlled. I started working on this bit a long time ago, and I did not finish it in a way that's, like, worth it. Maybe I'll get there one day. But I'm like, you don't get paid to do your job. You get paid not to riot. They pay you just before riot.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

But you still.

[Josh Johnson]

If they paid you any less, you'd riot. And they know that. So they're like. Because you gotta remember, especially in the us, we did have slavery. And they've slowly been trying to get back. Like, as soon as they lost it, they were like, that was some good stuff. That's crazy. It's like having Antimandium in Black Panther. Yeah. And so it's like, imagine they took all of it away. You gotta use regular metal now. You're like, guys, I'm getting shot like this. It's getting through, right? So now I'm coming from a place of, like, I understand that even if we're not even gonna get, like, conspiratorial with it. Right. Even in the way that we say left and right works as a function to keep us at the tug of war and the middle of the rope in the middle. Because the fact that, like, it can't be lost on us that somehow everyone, as in one person, is a full representative of the right, and every one person, just one person, is a full representative of the left. So based on algorithms, after something happens, something, whatever you want to picture, you are by algorithm and by who you've chosen to follow, either served contempt or compassion. And you are served contempt or compassion, as in, that is the way it is. This is your window into the Internet, and your window isn't wrong, but it's not the full picture. So then you'll say, everyone on the left is doing this. Everyone on the right is doing this. And then someone who argues with you, they saw a different mix. They saw a different cocktail of compassion and contempt. So now they are being like, no, that's not happening. This is what's happening. Both are happening. Everyone is everything. You can have QAnon or Blue Anon or whatever. And I'm not making, like, false equivalencies. I'm just saying that, like, we're all capable of. Of, like, everything. That's what makes a person a person. And so I think that keeping you there keeps you broke. Keeping you there keeps you, like, you know, complying without realizing you're complying, or like. And so when someone, especially, is trying to, like, follow a passion and someone says, don't necessarily worry about the money, you're gonna be worried about something. Because now that I'm not worried about the money, I worry about the quality. You know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. There's always gonna be something that you want to do.

[Josh Johnson]

So, like. So that is a thing that pops out at me where I'm like, I don't know when I'll be like. Because you don't like. Your body tells you when you get old, you don't say a number and go, I'm old now. You get out of bed, and you pop, and you're like, I'm not used to popping. And that's what quality does.

[Eugene]

There we go. Let's go back to complying. You said. Say that thing you said again about complying. We're trying to resist to comply.

[Josh Johnson]

No, it's just what keeps you complying is that, like, it's very easy if, like, if Trevor wants something. Right. And what he wants is the last slice of Pizza. Right. It's very easy for him to get that last slice of pizza that we could all three have if he keeps us distracted fighting about the pizza. Now I'm looking at you, you're looking at me. And he's eating right. And I feel like that's how a larger portion of every political game and every like, socioeconomic game works. And I think that by me being left and you being right and us arguing and only focusing on each other, you forget that, like, we were initially fighting over the pizza and now where's the pizza? It's gone. Well, it's gone. Cuz it's your fault. No, it's your fault.

[Eugene]

You know, Jimmy, I think society made that argument very easy for politicians and people who run countries after Covid. Cause we got to see what class really is.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

It happened in real time. Rich people did not die in droves.

[Josh Johnson]

Cause you also saw Madonna in that bathtub. And I was like, that's gonna radicalize somebody.

[Eugene]

Yeah. Some countries.

[Josh Johnson]

And some Madonna being in that bathtub and her being like, oh, we're all going through it. I'm like, not the bathtub.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh man.

[Josh Johnson]

Guys, I need you. I'm telling you right now. If we're ever having a global crisis and I post a video in a bathtub talking about how we all struggling, I need you to call me.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. There were a lot of people who are out of touch in that moment.

[Eugene]

Yeah, but. But I'm saying that in a grand scale, that's what you're experiencing as inequality and someone having to look at the other side and go, I'm stuck here.

[Josh Johnson]

I'll even pitch you this take. Take like any sort of like Hollywood example, acting, comedy, whatever. Right. This is also how it happens. I'm not speaking to the merits of anyone's talent. I'm just saying what I've noticed is that there will be a certain amount of positions. They'll be like the DEI positions. Right. And you could also tell that the DEI positions mass people get at dei. This is the thing that tells people, like, this is how many we're gonna do.

[Trevor Noah]

It's the quota.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. It's like this will be the quota. So I don't even know why you get mad at DEI. Cause they've already basically said, we'll only get 20, so you won't have to worry about them taking your job. Maybe you. But as a large swath of the industry, we're gonna let 20 in. Right. So now people are mad at these DEI jobs. Jobs only established to try to find some sort of base. All this stuff, all the stuff we already know, but then people are mad at them. These people now feel like they have to prove themselves. They're mad at the other people coming at them, everything. Meanwhile, there is no quota and there is no. There is no number that is capped for the amount of, like, legacy kids that get into the right colleges or Nepo babies that get the job or whatever. And it's like. It's like that thing. Obviously, some. Some people are waking up to that fact and being like, oh, yeah, why are there only 20 spots for anybody? Forget Dei.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, right, right, right.

[Josh Johnson]

And it's like that. But that's also part of the game.

[Eugene]

But that's what a quota does. A quota express exposes how many spots are no longer available to those it was available to before.

[Trevor Noah]

That's true. That's true, actually.

[Eugene]

So now you can quantify it. You can count, oh, 20 people used to be there. Now they're not anymore. Because these people are there. Quotas are never about if the person can do their job or not. Because I'll tell you this much. People who are put in because of affirmative action will never outnumber the people that were there already. It will not be 50. 50 will now be 50. You are here, Legacy 50. You are new. We're just putting you in because then you could measure how did the quality of work drop since the new people came in. But if you put 20% in and the other 80%, they stop performing their duties because they're disgruntled by the people that they feel like they don't deserve to be there, then that's when the quality of work drops. Then you can always blame it on the new guy.

[Trevor Noah]

Sure, sure. You know what? I love listening to this. Like, these are always the moments when somebody, like, walks into a room and there's comedians talking. And then I'll always hear them say, I thought you guys told more jokes.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no. I've always wondered. I was just listening to you guys now, and I was like, it's really interesting to me how comedians, no matter where they are in the world, will always get into the. Is it the anomalies? Is it the inconsistencies? Is it the. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, maybe just like.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I was just listening to this now, and I was going to. It's funny how. Because comedy. Let's think of it this way, because comedy is like the icing on a cake. It's sweet. It's generally very delicious. It's easy to consume. And people often think that the raw ingredient for it is also that in that way. And I know sugar cane is. Please don't get me wrong. But I'm just saying I'm watching this right now, and. No, no, forgive me. It made me wonder. It's like. Like, I wonder if, like, you get into comedy because you're seeing an inconsistent world or if part of comedy helps you process the inconsistency of the world, maybe.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, I imagine it's like if you're a singer, right? And you're like, I can do something real weird with my throat. I can do something real weird with my voice. And then you do it to drums. And people are like, I think I'd pay to see that. It's like. It's like you fall into the things you think.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but I mean, the thinking of it, like. Okay, let me ask you this question. When was the first time in your life when you can remember thinking, this didn't make. This doesn't make sense?

[Josh Johnson]

Uh. Okay, so you know how there's two moments that stick out to me? You know how the dentist gives you a lollipop?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. You see? There you go.

[Josh Johnson]

And I was like, hey, my man, my man, what you doing? You tried to catch me slipping. I didn't have any cavities, and now you're giving me sugar. This is crazy.

[Trevor Noah]

How old were you when you had this thought?

[Josh Johnson]

Ooh, maybe ten. I don't know. Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's.

[Trevor Noah]

But you see what I mean? It's like something like that. What was the first. What was the first thing you can remember thinking? This does not make sense.

[Eugene]

I think it was when I was watching my grandfather and my parents watching the news and believing all of it.

[Trevor Noah]

You. Wait, you were watching them watch the news?

[Eugene]

Yes, and they were believing all of it. Because in my head, I was like, this. This, what they're saying here didn't happen. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, what?

[Eugene]

Wherever this happened. Whatever they were saying in the news. Yeah. In Soweto, in wherever. I was like, yeah, where we are, everything is fine. So.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, so you were going.

[Eugene]

Yeah. So it was burning on tv, okay. At that place. And I'm sure by now they've extinguished the fire because the 7 o' clock news, dark outside. But when they shot a news. This is actually really funny. This is actually really funny. Why. Why are we worried about the emotions? As if it's happening outside, and if it's happening now, then I'd watch them Getting emotionally invested at 7 o', clock, about so bad out there.

[Trevor Noah]

That's fascinating. So you. You were thrown by the fact. I mean, it's. You see, it's extremely logical as well, because you're going, it's not burning outside.

[Eugene]

It's not even. It's not even. The sun is not even out.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. It's daytime in the news. Yes. But it's not. It's night. Yes.

[Eugene]

And everyone who was supposed to do their job did it. The fire trucks were there, the cameras were there, the reporter filed the story.

[Trevor Noah]

And so you were put on a jacket.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

In fact.

[Eugene]

In fact, in my head, I was like, the reporter that reported on the story is also home watching the news now.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what's so funny about this is that it's the third level of the thing. I thought you were just gonna say, why are they believing everything? Because people lie sometimes. That's just even much more of a child thing. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no.

[Josh Johnson]

He's like. You're like, no, no. The car that was on fire has clearly been extinguished by now, long ago.

[Eugene]

Insurance has been contacted. The claim is being processed now. We're just waiting for opening hours for tomorrow. So you can look at another car if you really want one. But I would watch the real emotion and my parents being invested on some, yo, that's bad out there. And I'm like, no, it's great in here. We're watching these people. Our car is not burning.

[Trevor Noah]

And that's when your house. So your brain at that point is just going, this doesn't make sense.

[Eugene]

Yes. And also because I think when I started exploring comedy, I realized that's what people are doing. They're reacting to something that I say that's not real. I say things and then they're like, yeah, net. Then I'm like, yeah. And I think that's why maybe we see comedians unable to fight extremism. When people are being extreme about their views and ideas and rallying people and filling up arenas and domes and people are just coming to listen to them. And social media, we can't say anything. We can fight that because we're essentially doing the same thing, but we're doing it on a happy side. We galvanizing people to come into a room to laugh. But there's on the other end of it, it has never been like it is now, where you find, in the other side of things, the same arena.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, that's.

[Eugene]

That's two weeks from now.

[Trevor Noah]

I would agree with that.

[Eugene]

Actually, there's someone who's Going, we are getting the guns.

[Trevor Noah]

We are going to fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a. There's a. There's a different type. It's. Ah, man, that's an interesting thought. There is like a. It feels like at least more and more places in the world have an economy or there's like a circuit around anger and hatred in a way that it didn't exist for a long time.

[Eugene]

Troublemaking, thanks to Stand up has become performative. So if you look at all the rallies of all people stirring up what we call trouble.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

They also have a stage.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. They tell jokes, by the way, and.

[Eugene]

Now they don't have paper anymore in their hand. They tell jokes, they mess around, play music a little bit. Mess around and get people worked up.

[Josh Johnson]

Some of them tell the same jokes.

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, they do it. They work it like a set. You remember back in the day. And I mean, he still sort of does it now, but not as much. I feel like now he's like retired. Trump used to work out bits on the campaign trail.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So he would say something, he would do it and then he'd go, I used to say that and it didn't work. I used to say it didn't work. Now it works. The one that he had was. I'm trying to think of which one he had. I think it was Crooked Hillary or one of those. But he had a previous version.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, Cricket Hillary.

[Trevor Noah]

And he had a version and it.

[Josh Johnson]

Was like it didn't hit, but he found the one.

[Trevor Noah]

And then he found like a switch and he changed it.

[Josh Johnson]

But he said.

[Trevor Noah]

Which was interesting to me. He said at a rally.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

I used to say it like this. And people didn't respond. Now I say it like this. And they do respond.

[Eugene]

Yes. But Stand up was the original research and development of how to become extreme in an idea. When people say, okay, there's no paper, just a microphone, just stage. Just give me a group of people. Don't sit down even to stand up. Let's do this thing. Because music did not have the same impact as now when you have a singular person trying to convince a horde of people to take action. But the action now is the other way around. It's no longer just go home and.

[Trevor Noah]

Not connection to happiness.

[Josh Johnson]

Yes.

[Eugene]

Because also Stand up did a lot to remind people how great their lives are. But this form of extremism, which is performative as well, is doing a lot to remind people how shitty their lives are. Where else we would make fun of a dream of someone who has a normal 9 to 5 job. These people are saying, why do you have a normal 9 to 5 job?

[Trevor Noah]

Don't press anything. We've got more. What now?

[Josh Johnson]

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[Josh Johnson]

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[Trevor Noah]

It's amazing how powerful it is when you switch it. You know, it's funny, you know, because you are in a moment right now that's amazing. And it's new and it's obviously being looked at from so many different places, you know, so like it's Josh Johnson. The magazines look at you. The entertainment industry looks at you. And then people often phone me and they go, what do you think of what Josh is doing? And they all have a different lens through which they wish to see it. You know, what do you think it means for the entertainment industry? What do you think it means for comedy? What do you think it means for. And I remember once I was trying to think of this for myself and I went, one of the things you're doing with your standup, like the sets that you're doing now every Single Week on YouTube is in a crazy way, I was like, like you're also just like establishing a bit of reality. I don't know if you've noticed that and I don't know if you're doing it on purpose.

[Josh Johnson]

I Mean, some people say that what I'm trying to do is be like, this thing. Like, what we have become, I think, is a problem. Like, as comedians and what we mean to people and what we. And how we, like, structure our careers around that thing. I think that people are playing games right now that are gonna bite them eventually. Where you play with people who are struggling, you play with people who are based on even no fault of their own, but a systemic level. They are mentally unstable. You play with people whose only hope is something that is in the ether as a conspiracy. You play with all that. You make your money, and then you think you go home, but especially if you're chasing money, especially if you like money and especially if you can't stay at home, you keep doing it, and you keep doing it, and you keep doing it, and then you become a different thing to them than you can ever get back. Do you know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, wow.

[Josh Johnson]

And so I think if I stay as much of a standup as I can, and obviously, sometimes I talk about politics, but my thing is that I talk about everything. So the people who think that I talk about one thing, I can tell what videos they've watched. I've been told by people that I only talk about black culture. Then I've been told by other people I only talk about Trump, that I've been told about from other people that I do like regular jokes again. Then I am told by people that they're like, I love your stories. I love this story. Whatever.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And it's like, I don't think. And this is. I'm not upset about or whatever, but I don't think that people are fitting into the picture that I am trying to. And as a result, talking about everything.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but you see, this is. This is. I do get upset about it, not just on your behalf, but on society's behalf. One of the best things I ever learned was from a friend who was a computer scientist, and he taught me about a concept known as the second system effect. And he said, whenever you're programming, one of the things you learn as a coder is when you change one aspect, you might think you're fixing one thing you don't realize. The second system effect that is created by that you've created a second system. And the effect of that is something that you may not have been aware of. You know, I think of that with algorithms, we used to live in a world where the broadcast was decided by a few and it went to the many. So one news network Hundred million people would watch it. One journalist, 50 million people would know them. You know, one newspaper could define a whole country's trajectory. And then over time, that, that started diminishing. Like their, their power started going down. But what also started happening is it started diffusing. So there'd be more newspapers, more news agencies, more television shows, more movies. So there's more who have less power, more who have less power. This is a good thing, because reality shouldn't be defined by one person or one small group. But then we get to the point of the algorithm, and the algorithm does this on steroids. It becomes super, super, super tuned to getting as few people as possible, or rather as many people as possible. An opportunity to talk to as many people as possible. And you, you like, cut down where the message goes from and who it goes to. It's like everywhere. It's diffused. You know what I mean? It's like everyone can say it to everyone everywhere. But then what it also does is it says, I'm just gonna give you this slice of the reality. You know what I mean? So now Josh Johnson's out there trying to be the full human being. Who is Josh Johnson? The algorithm goes, I noticed, Trevor, that you really liked Josh Johnson's stories about hair. I'm just gonna give you all of his hair stuff, just you and him, Afros. That's all I'm giving you. And then it goes, eugene, I noticed you liked the thing when Josh Johnson was talking about working in a grocery store. I'm just gonna give you his retail stuff. And now you extrapolate this into politics and views on the world. And what's crazy and terrifying to me is that there's a person out there who only knows one slither of Josh Johnson. And as you said, they either have contempt or compassion for that person or that side of you. Right? And I go, if, as we get to the second system effect of everything going to everyone in the most perfect way, you don't have one big broadcast. You have a billion small broadcasts. Yeah, but those billion small broadcasts are only your world now. And where before you had to share a world where a car was burning for everyone, Your family is watching the news now. You watch the news. You watch the news. You watch. Everyone in the house is watching different news, but they're all living in the same house.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And I, I, I genuinely, the reason I'm upset about it is not like anger. I'm like, I'm almost terrified. Cause I go, what does, what does that do to us when we don't see the full complexity of each other. Like, you and I talk about this all the time. I go, I wanna live in a world where more people see friends disagree because we make it seem like people disagree because they don't live in the same world. You know, like, when you walked in today, we were watching videos on the Internet about mediums and psychics and all of that stuff. And I said to you as my friend, I was like, emma, I don't believe this, but there's also something here that I don't get. There's something I don't get. And I'm not gonna say it's not real, but I'm letting you know my current position is I don't believe this. And then you're going, I do believe this, and let me tell you why. And we're sharing this, but we don't exist on, you know, like, opposite ends of anything. There are some parts of you that are far away from me, and there are some parts of you that I can't separate from my own skin. We are the same in that way. And that. That's a big thing that worries me is I go, imagine if somebody like Josh Johnson, who, in my opinion, is one of the kindest, most caring, most considerate people, imagine if they could slice you into slithers of an idea. What are they doing to the rest of everyone in a society? Do you know what I mean?

[Josh Johnson]

Sure. And also through the structure of, like, what keeps you on. They follow behavior. So because they follow behavior, we assume that everyone always wants to be agreed with. Yeah, some people, actually. And the algorithms have already figured this out because it happens to me. It's like some people, through being curious about what other people think, are served nothing but. But bad. Like, I would just say bad stuff.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man, that happened to my Twitter.

[Josh Johnson]

So then it's like. It then makes me feel like, oh, everyone's so angry and hateful and every. And then this is. Okay. No one's on board with this idea. I've talked about this idea with friends. I did this idea at a show. Right.

[Trevor Noah]

All right, go.

[Josh Johnson]

I was like, guys, they found. Now it's like they finished a study that half the Internet is bots. Isn't that great? And everybody's like, why would that be great? I'm like, guys, there's way less Nazis than we thought. Just imagine if you thought there was a room with 100 Nazis in it and it's two. Two's still bad. But two's not 100. And then one of my friends was saying, but yeah. Isn't it horrible, though, that somebody would go to the trouble of engineering the troll farm to make us think there's more Nazis?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Yes. That's still not as bad as 100 actual Nazis. If you had a hundred cakes at your door that said the N word and two Nazis, you'd be way less scared than if there were a hundred Nazis at your door.

[Trevor Noah]

With two cakes.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, with two cakes. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

We gotta keep the cakes.

[Josh Johnson]

We gotta keep the cakes. But, like, the fact that this bot problem is actually so big, it both means that, like, to me, at least, I could be wrong.

[Trevor Noah]

I like this. No, I like this view. I'm actually on board with this, actually. It's an optimistic way of looking at it.

[Josh Johnson]

It also means that the companies also are artificially propping themselves up. We think that they are the full purveyors might be the right word, but that they are the full end all, be all of human connection now. And that would be advantageous for us to believe that, because we would then go to them for the communication. First of all, everyone forgets outside if you gossip, the fact that people, even in New York, people talk about New York. Most people are so much more polite than any Internet comment section would ever have you believe.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, definitely.

[Josh Johnson]

People bump into me. They apologize.

[Trevor Noah]

Cause you're carrying nunchucks.

[Josh Johnson]

Of course. Yeah, 100%. Let the hair get frizzy. But, like. But I just find that that thing clued me in that, okay, now I already try to take a beat. I already, to my detriment, don't get angry enough about bad things happening in real time. Even when they happen to me. Sometimes someone's rude to me and then they walk away. And then I'm like, actually, that wasn't okay. Right? I already tried to take a step back as my, like, personal. Now I take a second step back, especially when I'm online. Cause I'm like, is this person real? Now, that sort of thing could drive a person crazy. But to me, because I'm also being served so much hateful stuff, and because hateful stuff is more engaging than love, it does then make me go, okay, what's the likelihood that people spreading love are bots and people spreading hate or bots? This is a hateful thing that I see. And it also isn't, like, original. This is how I feel like I'm getting good at picking out the bots. Because then when something racist happens and they're like, we should get him fired for his job, and then they're like, probably doesn't have a job to fire from. And then the next three people are like, probably doesn't have a job to fire from. Probably doesn't have a job to fire from. I'm like, all right, maybe this is, like, one angry person that's just multiple. Yeah, maybe no racist people. Who knows? Because the comments are racist. The other person's just angry. They're like, we should get him fired from his job. This is insane, right? And so now it's like, it changed my outlook on the world in a way that might be naive, and it might be a little bit, like, wishful thinking, but it still is, like, information that I'm basing my.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I think it's the right way to see. It actually is like finding. You know, we've had a lot of conversations on the podcast with different. I mean, everyone from, you know, doctors who are here to talk about how to. How to find the best in your kids. We talk to world leaders. One of the common threads I find is, like, finding the hope, you know? And what you're saying ties back into that, is finding you have to find that thing. You gotta find. You were hopeful enough to eat the second slice of pizza and desperate.

[Eugene]

Yeah, fourth.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, fourth.

[Josh Johnson]

The three were the night before.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but I like this. What type of pizza was it, by the way?

[Josh Johnson]

It was just pepperoni pizza. There's no reason for this.

[Trevor Noah]

Can you eat pepperoni pizza today?

[Josh Johnson]

Yes, because, okay, I've been poisoned many times, but there are certain types of poisoned.

[Trevor Noah]

This man said it like a badger. That's how Josh was like, I have been poisoned many times.

[Josh Johnson]

There was a time in my life where if food was 250, I would eat it no matter what. That was the most adventurous I've ever been. Now when I actually go places and someone's like, oh, try this. It's a delicacy, but it look a little bit like squid guts. I'm like, I think I'm okay. But if it had been 250 in 2014 in Chicago, I'd be like, hey, bottoms up.

[Trevor Noah]

Right?

[Josh Johnson]

And so the time I got poisoned at the Chinese place, it took me years and years and years to eat Chinese again.

[Eugene]

Huh?

[Josh Johnson]

Because everything about the feeling, everything about the smell.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

No, I mean, that had violent, whatever. Now it got to a point, for a year, anytime I passed, like, any sort of Szechuan place, I was like, I could feel it coming.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man, I'm so hungry now. You just got me hungry. You just said Sichuanese Food. I started thinking of pig trotters. Are you in Eugene? I don't even think you understand. You just. Oh, man. Sorry. Your pain. Tell us about your pain again.

[Josh Johnson]

But it's just. I apologize. I never drank in my life, but it's the closest thing.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, wait.

[Josh Johnson]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No. What? Whoa. What?

[Trevor Noah]

Can't just. I thought you knew. You can't just drop bombs like that in your life. I knew. You don't drink?

[Josh Johnson]

No, no, I never drank.

[Trevor Noah]

You have never consumed alcohol?

[Josh Johnson]

No, no.

[Trevor Noah]

Nothing even in church? Nothing?

[Josh Johnson]

No, no, we didn't go to that type of church.

[Eugene]

Church.

[Josh Johnson]

We were broke.

[Trevor Noah]

There's some churches that give you that of Jesus, and it's wine.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, some are wine. We had Welch's.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, the grape juice.

[Josh Johnson]

Grape juice.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, okay, okay, okay. All right. Never consume. We're not talking about never drunk. Never consumed alcohol. Is there a reason for this?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. So initially, I was definitely before I was, like, of age, too scared to get in trouble.

[Eugene]

Okay, cool.

[Josh Johnson]

Then I was, like, not then. Then I really went to this transition where I became known as, like, the sober guy.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, that'll be the guy who, like, walks you back to your dorm. Whatever.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Then I was broke, so then I was broke. But then this is also what made me useless, though, is that I can't drive. So then I couldn't even be the designated driver. I would just be in the car with the designated driver and everybody else sitting in the back, sick. And I'm like, y'.

[Eugene]

All.

[Josh Johnson]

Y' all paid too much for this. You know what I mean? So then. Then I moved to Chicago.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, that story. Can I just say, that story takes on a whole new complexity of annoying. It's one thing for somebody to be hanging out with you at a party, drinking with you, being like, have you guys noticed how much we pay for this alcohol? We could be paying way less. No, sober Josh is just standing there pointing at your drink, being like, you could have saved $50. You could have saved $25. You could have saved $17. All right, all right. Shotgun. Shotgun.

[Josh Johnson]

This is so wild. And then when I moved to Chicago, I didn't have money to afford to, like, a new thing. And then after I moved to New York, I felt like, even though I was still in, like, my mid-20s, I felt like I had missed a little bit of the boat. And that if I were to find out. Cause the way you find your drink and the way you find out how much you can drink is through trial and error. Definitely. And the Errors get less and less cute the older you get.

[Trevor Noah]

This is true.

[Josh Johnson]

And so now I'm like, ah, yeah, I missed it. Because now also.

[Trevor Noah]

So there's no like, curiosity even that makes you. And I'm not advocating for it, by the way.

[Josh Johnson]

No, no, no. I'm just.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm intrigued by this.

[Josh Johnson]

The other reason was that I was like, I don't think I can do anything like smoke or drink or any of that especially. It was a focus thing as well. Cause I was like, I wanna be able to take care of my mom, take care of my aunt, and just make sure that they're good. Right. Cause and especially after my dad passed and everything. And so then anything like that just seemed like a potential distraction. And just from the outside looking in, I had never seen anyone be their best self drunk. Even the happy drunks.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

There were some people that are like, oh, he's so fun when he's drunk. And I'm like, y' all know he's like fun regular, right?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Like you just gotta ask him the right questions. And so how old were you when your dad passed? Um, 26, I think. 26. I could have been 25.

[Trevor Noah]

Did you feel like that? Because I'm listening to you and it sounds like to me it jolted you into like a different type of manhood or responsibility than you felt before.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, especially because I was now going to like, hopefully live longer than my dad.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn.

[Josh Johnson]

And so now it's like I already had. What felt crazy to me is that I. My dad pretty much, if I have the math right, I was the age my dad was when he had me when he died. So if I'm like 25, 26, I'm pretty sure he had me at 25, 26. So just as I was like gaining an appreciation for what my dad must have been going through and have a kid, I like lose my dad. And so these are conversations I never end up getting to have with him. Of like, hey, just so you know, like, I get you a little bit more now. I know what I. I can't know what it was like to be a baby with me. I can't know what it was like to have like annoying cries that are like, eh. You know what I mean? Cause I'm inquisitive. I can't go back in time and really get it. But I'm starting to get it. Cause I can't imagine having to deal with what you and my mom dealt with when you were my age. Me being this now, then losing my Dad, I was like, oh, yeah, anybody can go. So now I make sure, or at least do my best to. I'm still not perfect at it, but everyone that I love, I let them know all the time. And I don't worry about being embarrassed. Cause it's like, I told my dad I loved him the last time and wasn't feeling sure that he heard me. You know what I mean? And I had the opportunity to tell my dad that I loved him plenty of times before he got sick. And so it's like, I never want to waste that again on anybody. And I've lost people since then and got to feel at least somewhat better. Because every time. I'm not saying this to freak you out, but it's like, every time I leave someone, I'm like, they could die.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, that does for me.

[Josh Johnson]

I could die. So, like, I'm sorry.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't put that juju on me, Ricky Bobby.

[Josh Johnson]

But I'll tell you, I love you all the time. I love you, too.

[Trevor Noah]

You know I love you, too. Yeah, but don't put that juju on me. No.

[Josh Johnson]

100%. Look, we're gonna live forever. That's literally why I say it all the time. I say every time, I'll be. People will be like, are you hurt? I'm gonna live forever. When I fall, people are like, ooh, that looked bad. I'm gonna live forever.

[Trevor Noah]

It explains a lot of your. Like, I don't know, man. You've always had a beautiful appreciative. Like, we used to come back from shows, and you would look at me, and you'd be like, hey, man, thank you for that. And I was like, o. Okay. And that's why I'm shocked that you don't drink. Cause I genuinely thought some of those times. I. I don't mean this in a shitty way. I swear on my lips.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you.

[Trevor Noah]

You had the sincerity of a slightly inebriated person.

[Josh Johnson]

And I also stopped talking. Yeah. And I realized I did the same thing to Colin Kaepernick. When I met Colin Kaepernick, I was like, hey, man. You and me.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. And that's what you do. And it's like, so Josh will look at you, say something, not finish a sentence, but his. In his intonation will make it seem like something was coming. So he'll look at me, be like, hey, man, I just wanted to say thank you. Then I'll be like, oh, for what? You know.

[Josh Johnson]

Do you know? No, I Do know.

[Trevor Noah]

No. And then, like, I mean, I've known you for years now, but back then, I was just like, oh, man. I was like, my man's. You know, he's had a few. It's been a night. It's been a journey. And I appreciate him still. And so. So, I mean, it must be. I can only imagine what it must be like for your mom, though, seeing this. Cause there's no mom who doesn't enjoy seeing their child fly.

[Josh Johnson]

Especially when you quit the grocery store. Especially when you're like. You're like, mom, I think I got this. And she's like, are you sure? Like, because it's not my mom. Never. Like, she. My mom was very supportive, believed in me all the things. But any mom is gonna be. Especially any black mom is gonna be pragmatic.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. If your mom supports you going into comedy, I don't know if you've got a great mom. I'm gonna be honest. Your mom should support you doing comedy as, like, a side. But if your mom. Yeah, if you go, mom, I'm quitting my job to do comedy. And your mom's like, good for you. I don't know if your mom actually likes you. I'm gonna be honest. Most moms, all moms should just be like, do that for fun.

[Josh Johnson]

And I told my mom that I got the job at Tonight show, and she was even still like, okay, and that's enough money to. She was still like, yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Is it still, like.

[Josh Johnson]

And this is good.

[Trevor Noah]

You can survive.

[Josh Johnson]

You'll be taking care of yourself. And so it's like, even for something that she knows. Cause I watched the Tonight show with Johnny Carson when I was little. Like, I. I don't. I don't even remember some of this stuff. And she will tell it to me that. She's like, you would. You cried. You cried so hard. I think I was, like, late to school when. When. When they announced on, like, the Today show that Johnny Carson wasn't gonna. Or whatever. Morning show. Yeah, I watched Johnny Carson. I loved Johnny Carson so much. And so I, like, cried. And I'm like, I don't remember this at all. And she's like, yeah, you were like, four or whatever. Like, like, I was, like, little. And I don't even know if it was the announcement so much as me finding out, but it was like, it was just Johnny Carson and Big Bird got, like, tear me up. Right? And so then I think that for her, seeing me do well and especially seeing what we've built, like, we have a Real community of people who come to the show, like, to laugh, take a break, and, like, people really take care of each other and everything. And people are like, you know, obviously, like, Internet's Internet, so there's gonna be, like, mean comments, whatever. But for the most part, like, people are, like, so kind. They're very kind towards me and they're kind towards each other. And it's like everything. I'm hopefully making everything that would make her, you know, happy when she sees it. And she's seen it a few times now, and now she's seen it a couple times as my show. And so then she sees what I'm doing.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And so even though she'll still Whatever. If I swear I, I, bro, when I tell you I don't even, like, curse like that. I don't even cur. But if I let anything slip, she's like, I heard that B word. You think that that's banana? Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, it'll be like any cursing is just like. Is like, she clocks it. Right?

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

But I think that now for her, seeing that I'm doing well, seem okay and, like, once again, I just. I can take care of her. I can take care of my aunt, and, like, they can ask me for things and it's not a huge deal.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Because that's been, like, the dream, like people would say. Like, even when people said I was, like, good at comedy, I'd be like, I'm not good at comedy till, like, my mom is taken care of.

[Trevor Noah]

Man.

[Josh Johnson]

That's beautiful. Because then it's like, now, now you've. Now you've reached some sort of goal. Right? Like, now you're like. Cause funny is like, this is the thing about, like, the hubris behind comedy sometimes that I think even gets comedians trapped in. And I think why so many comedians leaned into politics in the way of wanting to be attached and not just wanting to comment. Cause wanting to comment is like what we're supposed to do. Being attached is like, now you're entering a weird. Now you're like a mouthpiece when you're like, in with them, in with them. You gotta be very careful. Cause now you're talking about your friend.

[Eugene]

Cause you have to know them.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but that's actually true. You're talking about your friend, and now you can't tell the truth.

[Josh Johnson]

Now you can't tell the truth. Cause you're like, no, I was there. And he didn't mean it that way that it came out. So I know it's Ridiculous.

[Trevor Noah]

But the funny thing is, they're not your friend.

[Josh Johnson]

They're not your friend.

[Trevor Noah]

That's the thing. I think a lot of people don't realize in these situations. It's like, you'll cozy up to a politician, right? They'll cozy up to you, but they're not your friend. Unless they are. But most of the time they're not. But you're so enjoying the proximity to power that you're quick to go like, they're my friend. And it's like, they're your friend. It's like, yeah, I love them.

[Eugene]

They're cool.

[Trevor Noah]

They're this, they're that. And then when the power does something that you don't agree with, people are like, why is your friend doing this now? You're like, well, I mean, they're not my friend. I don't, like, know.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't, like, know them like that. I mean, but it's like. But you told us you vouched for them and you said they were great.

[Josh Johnson]

I'll even tell you this right now. You. If you are a politician, to be your friend, you gotta find a powerless politician. That person being genuine. That person. The person who was like, y', all, they blocked me. I can't. Like, an alderman, city council, they probably your friend.

[Trevor Noah]

They like your friend, friend.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. But, like, once you get to high up, once you get to prime minister, once you get to, like, president, once you get to people with, like, real power and a stake and an image that they use to, like, catapult them to the next thing, you gotta be very careful because. Look, look, look. What's his name? I'm sure Rodney Dangerfield was friends with Reagan or who. Like, you know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

He might have been, you know, might.

[Josh Johnson]

Have been buddies, you know? So then he does whatever. I don't think it was White House Correspondents Dinner back then, but he does whatever roasting thing. And then, like, the president at the time's eating it up. It's like, they might be friends. And then you also have to factor in, like, celebrity to it, too. Of, like, maybe this president just. That's what's happening with the. With the fighters now. Like, now these fighters will go to a country and hang out with, like, the country's dictator, and then they'll be like, friends. And then the fighter gets back to the U.S. he's like, hey, you know, he skins people, right? It's like, what? He just wanted to take the picture and go, like. That's why I went. It's like, why would you go, well, he paid me $100,000.

[Trevor Noah]

It's like, oh, yeah, you didn't check. So when you're building this world of yours, what are you building towards and what are you trying to build away from?

[Josh Johnson]

I think the. And I've said this before, and I'll keep saying it on stage. It's like, I think the. When your life is over, when everything is done, the only real measure of a man is, like, what you build and what you break. And so it's like, I'd like to build up a lot of, like, goodwill things that I think that people still have in them, but they just don't exist as much just for free in the ether. And I like to, like, break some ideas that people have of each other. Even though that's gonna be hard because, like you said, it's like the algorithm doesn't aid in those things. The same way you think you can use a politician and they're using you. I think algorithms work the same way.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, no, definitely.

[Josh Johnson]

Where you're like, no, I've gamed it. Cause I'm always nice. And it's like, well, first of all, no one is always nice. And sometimes you're willing to be nasty about someone who's being nasty, or sometimes you have a very human moment now, just like the problem that we have now that we refuse to accept, because as soon as the thing becomes about you, it takes you out of the game a little bit, is that you watch reality tv. And now we know enough to know these people have been coached or these people are being produced to be the most entertained version of themselves. Sometimes the most entertained version of themselves is the worst version of themselves. And now algorithms and platforms are doing all of that to us. We are not our worst moment. We are also not our marriage proposal. No one is as cute as. As sweet as. As nasty as. As whatever. Even if you put a bunch of that stuff out, no one is one thing, right? Whatever it is, good or bad. And so I think that now you could look at every person. We literally call them channels. You have a YouTube channel. You have a Instagram page. You have. You have a book about you being written. You have a TV show about you being produced. And those things work the same way. Even if you're like, well, no, I control it. Cause it's mine. You don't control who it goes out to and how it goes out. And then one thing that I've noticed is, like, the favorite things that people say, they're the favorite that I've done are never the thing that. Not only never the thing, I think it would be never the thing that is the most popular. One of the favorite. Favorite. Favorite videos I've had that people have ever put out. I mean, that I've ever put out that people come to me about is this one that I did that I just did on a whim, just to put it out for fun. It wasn't even a Tuesday video. I think it was extra.

[Trevor Noah]

It was like a Thursday video.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And I was like, it's called the Priest and the Pickle. And it's just a time in my life where I had a conversation with a priest and a guy who was like a pickle, slash pickle juice thief. And it's like that thing is for a lot of people. Some people say you talk about Trump, you talk about black culture, you talk about, talk about, talk about. But if we talk about favorite. For whatever reason, that thing peers through. I think anything that I put out that people connect to is hopefully. And I think by virtue of what people tell me is the thing where I'm being hopefully like the most human. And so I'm not interested in being right. I'm not interested in being like, into bringing the country into whatever political form. I just want to remind everybody that at least in this aspect and to real world consequence, you are being produced. So whatever you watch, whatever you do, take it with a grain of salt. Could this be a bot also? Am I being served something? Cause of how I'm feeling? The same way that, like, if you're with your girl and your girl knows that you're upset, and she also knows what you're upset about, she's gonna bring you a different thing. So sometimes it's like you just had a bad day. I'll make you a little something. Or if someone did something to you, hey, we need to talk. Cause I can tell you need to talk it out. Algorithms are serving you the same way we do not give. We give AI. And AI that doesn't even exist yet, all the credit of intelligence and manipulation that we should be giving the algorithms that already serve us. And so I just like, hopefully, even in being manipulated by it, even in serving the machine, to hopefully serve the people, some good can come out of that. But there's so much more that I need to do. I think I should just be writing a lot of this down and making it, hopefully a book. Cause then a book is harder to. You only saw the snippet of the book. Yeah, that's true.

[Trevor Noah]

That's true. People don't clip books.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. And it's like. And even when you do, it's like, all right, that's boring. Like, even when somebody tries to like clip, like.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. It doesn't hit the same.

[Josh Johnson]

It doesn't hit the same.

[Trevor Noah]

It never hits the same.

[Josh Johnson]

Even when it's like a slam dunk.

[Trevor Noah]

It does not hit the same.

[Josh Johnson]

It's like I.

[Trevor Noah]

You gotta read it in your head. Yeah, it's not the same.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And then now I said it. See, that's the most annoying thing. I don't know if you say that, but like that is a real phenomenon that's happening. Somebody finally reads anything and they go. It's like when someone repeats your idea back to you. Cause they weren't listening, but they were listening enough for it to go in.

[Trevor Noah]

And then they say it.

[Josh Johnson]

And then they say it. That's what people do. You should do that with reading. But people do it with reading. Like they're the expert. Actually, now that I think about it, my whole 8th grade science book was really my idea. I don't even know why you teaching the class. That's the hubris. That's the crazy attitude that people have now. And it's why people don't trust experts sometimes. Cause it's like, well, I also am well read about this. It's like you're not well labbed about it. You haven't clocked the hours. You know what I mean?

[Eugene]

Only when you speak to comics do you realize that one, we're privileged in more ways than we can ever imagine. And I think right now we're living in a world where we've over ordered from the menu and now we don't know what to eat first. Cause I think, I think of social media. I'm like, you know, you can erase all the apps and just leave. Leave the one that you like to communicate with people. Yeah. And also it's social media, not interactive media. If you're not using it to socialize the people that you want to socialize with, you're the one opening up the door for people that you don't want in your life.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Not socializes you.

[Eugene]

Yes. But I also think the more time you have in your hands, the more you earn, the more time we have. And this, this debate has been going around since the beginning of time. Well, it was big with fast food. Remember when people would say, yeah, are you eating junk food? Are you eating unhealthy? Then people are like, maybe I like it. And maybe that's all I can afford.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

And it's also the same with what people call trash television.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. You're not wrong. It's the same trend.

[Eugene]

People just wanna. Yeah, they just wanna watch that. They just. When. If you feel like, you know, that Kim Kardashian doesn't look like that all the time, that's good for you. But they just wanna watch. They wanna watch shows about marriages not working out because theirs is probably not working out as well. So they don't want to feel alone. But I also feel like the people. I feel the same about sport, organized sports, the same way some people feel about social media and the comments and the bars and reality television. Because if all sports was real, why is it that when match fixing happens, it's a scandal?

[Josh Johnson]

What sport? Like what? Matching for what sport?

[Eugene]

We had a case in South Africa where it was a huge one. South African cricket team also is real.

[Trevor Noah]

Say that statement again.

[Eugene]

So here in reality television, you and I can always say it's overproduced. There's some acting going on over there. So. But for someone else, it's. It's reality. Kim Kardashian looks like that all the time. People who love sports, organized sports, I think those people show up at that time, they get paid this much. At 8 o', clock, they're gonna play for 90 minutes. Right. And it's real. The tackle was real, the goal was. The dive was real. Until match fixing happens. And then someone realizes that that match that they spoke about with their friends, with such conviction, that play two years ago, all of that. Yeah, yeah. Someone was paid to take a dive or to pretend that they were hurt. So if in that reality, we go real, organized sports is real.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

Same way someone feels about reality television.

[Trevor Noah]

It is their reality.

[Eugene]

It is their reality.

[Josh Johnson]

I think the diff. The. I'll just picture this. I do think the difference, though, is that even in a fixed match, nobody, like, flies. Like, all the stuff that would happen in a match still happen. There are people who literally get. There are people who literally get pissed off and cut off.

[Trevor Noah]

I just said nobody flies.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Cause, like, if you were like, oh, sports isn't real the way reality TV is real.

[Eugene]

No. We compared the Kardashians and a soccer match.

[Josh Johnson]

Yes, exactly. So with the Kardashians, right, there's a chance that Kim's not even that mad at Khloe, but she's now been produced to almost come to blows with her sister, which is not, like, real, because it's not based off a real conflict. And it's not something that would have happened if we weren't looking. Everything that happens, even in a fixed match, even if you just paid the ref, they still shot the ball, they still kicked the ball, they still did the stuff. So it's like, yes, it's. To me, it's just as real. Because whether someone takes a dive or not is like. It almost doesn't factor into the equation because you also don't know who's like. If the keeper's girlfriend broke up with him and now he's, like, distracted, so he's not playing at his best. It's like, it's still. All the stuff that was gonna happen still happen in a way that in reality tv you can tell sometimes they pick the sweetest people and then they get them to yell things that they would like. They mess with your mind to the point. And I think that with sports, it's at least like, nah, he was always gonna try to kick it in. He just tried less. Cause like, somebody paid him.

[Trevor Noah]

I think what I'm. What I'm hearing you both say, funny enough, I know we're going to have to wrap up soon anyway, but, like, I don't think you're saying something too different. And I think. You know what it is? It's. It's choreograph. No, but more than that, it's. It's. It's just. It goes back to the question I asked you about, like, your first experience as a young child doing what you sort of now do as a standup comedian. And it's the challenge that we all face in the world. You have to watch the people around you watch the news, and you have to deal with the paradox of what they're experiencing versus the reality that's actually outside. Right. You have to find a way to bridge that divide. And then on the other side, in a similar world, it's like, go to the dentist. Go to the dentist. But also ask yourself why they gave you a lollipop.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's. You did it. You brought it on home. That, I feel like, is what we should all do.

[Trevor Noah]

Josh Johnson. This was dope, man.

[Josh Johnson]

This was great, man. I miss you.

[Trevor Noah]

I miss you, too. I don't miss you as much as you miss me. Cause I see you all the time on the Internet, which is great for me.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh.

[Trevor Noah]

But it's bad because then I don't get to hang out with you like this.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. We can hang out anytime. I'm in town.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, that's never.

[Josh Johnson]

No, no, it's not.

[Trevor Noah]

That's a traveling comedian's way of saying, like, see a sucker. No, we can hang out anytime I'm around.

[Eugene]

Never.

[Josh Johnson]

I'm here four days, I still need.

[Trevor Noah]

To go to a UFC match with you. That's all I want. I still say this is the channel that the world deserves. Josh Johnson commentating on ufc. This man single handedly got me into ufc. And I've. I've never enjoyed a match as much as I have when. When he. You should. Have you ever tried doing one of those, like, second screen type things?

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, no, no, I haven't.

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, maybe don't. Because you love ufc. I don't want to spoil the thing that you love, but. Yeah, let me tell you something, man.

[Josh Johnson]

Especially in 2020, man. Let me.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me tell you something. This guy, ufc, you don't even understand.

[Eugene]

I would have never met Josh would.

[Trevor Noah]

Make me think I know ufc by the time the fight starts, I would be like, khabib, ho, ho. Let me tell you about Khabib. You don't even understand, man. Oh, so here's the thing you gotta understand about Dagestani wrestling, right? So you see the Dagestani technique, and I'd be like, where did this come from? And then Josh is just there in the corner, like, yeah, yeah. No, I'm serious. You gotta do it. You ready?

[Josh Johnson]

No, dude, I'm telling you, especially in 2020, that was a good time to get in because there were no crowds. You got to see what, like, a fight was like. Because you could hear them.

[Trevor Noah]

No, you could hear them.

[Josh Johnson]

You could hear them. So not only could you hear them, you could hear when they were surprised about what was happening. I'll never forget when Kevin Holland fought, and I don't remember who grabbed him. Somebody grabbed him and he went like. He's not on mic. The cameras are over the cage. So the cameras pick him up going, oh, you strong. But you're like, this is a professional elite fighter.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you remember the other one? Wait, there was another one that you showed me. Oh, man. It was similar to the. Someone turns to their corner in the fight. During it was the same time, there's like no crowd. And he like, turns and he's like, I don't know what to do.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, in the middle of the fight. Yeah, he's like, in the middle of a fight, he's like, he's like, hey, hey. Like, y', all. Y' all say it. Like, it was so good. And then the other one that we were laughing, we were like crying about, is this. Cause heavyweight fights are also like, these are the biggest, most dangerous men in the world. But they're also scared of each other.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Josh Johnson]

So it's like you'll see a big man now. They're like, that's a big guy. And remember when we were in the car and we had missed the actual fight cause we were like traveling for it and it was in I think Abu Dhabi. So it was a different time and everything. And anyway the heavyweight dude kicked like, did like whatever, kicked like oblique kick. And the other guy went ah, ah. And then he started walking away.

[Trevor Noah]

He just walked away.

[Josh Johnson]

He just walked away like he was.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, I'm going home.

[Josh Johnson]

Even the ref is like, like, like the ref starts running to try to stop it. Cuz you like, you know, you got to intelligently defend yourself and everything. But even the ref was like, what is he doing? And then the dude like hit him once and then he, you know, like, but he was still holding his side and you would never hear the like, ah. Like. And now because of co, they've actually brought back a lot more. Like ringside coach corner. Like they had some of it before. Bring it. They're bringing it more in.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm telling you, Josh, you gotta do it, man. Josh Johnson UFC commentator and part time nunchuck user.

[Eugene]

Ow. Ow.

[Trevor Noah]

He works, walks the streets at night, his afro casting a menacing silhouette.

[Eugene]

Hello? Who is that?

[Josh Johnson]

Hello?

[Trevor Noah]

Hello?

[Josh Johnson]

Ow.

[Trevor Noah]

Are you the guy from the grocery store? Josh Johnson is none. Chuck. What now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Rose. Music mixing and mastering by Hannis Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Hardu. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of what now.

[Josh Johnson]

The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that can could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry. With LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com Specialoffer terms apply. Holiday burnout is real. From delayed flights to unexpected guests and all the cooking and wrapping in between. That's why Coop Sleep Goods curated a gift guide and everything is 25% off. For a limited time. The guide is packed with award winning pillows. Best selling super soft sheets and cooling pillows for the hot sleepers in your life. Shop effortlessly this year by skipping the.

[Eugene]

Guesswork and wrapping a thoughtful gift they'll.

[Josh Johnson]

Actually use every night. And don't forget, you deserve better sleep too. So go ahead, add an extra pillow or sheet set for yourself. Everyone needs a good night's rest, so you can't go wrong with a gift from Coop. Visit coopsleepgoods.comcomedy to get 25 off their gift guide picks. That's coopsleepgoods.com comedy.