Hasan Piker: Fighting the Democratic Establishment

Summary

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What Now? with Trevor Noah

Episode: Hasan Piker: Fighting the Democratic Establishment

Date: May 28, 2026
Guest: Hasan Piker
Host: Trevor Noah

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Episode Overview

In this revealing and playful episode, Trevor Noah sits down with political streamer and commentator Hasan Piker for a candid, wide-ranging conversation about American politics, media performance, radical honesty, and the intersecting crises the country faces. The episode dives into the recent surge of left-wing activism, the Democratic Party’s internal battles, the rise of democratic socialism, the perils of being a public dissident, social media distortion, and the struggle to maintain authenticity in a performative media landscape.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Kayfabe" of American Political Commentary

(33:39 – 38:36)

• Trevor details the dissonance between public personas of political commentators and their off-stage selves, comparing the entire industry to professional wrestling (“kayfabe”).
• Hasan shares similar anecdotes from the White House Correspondents’ Dinner, noting how fierce ideological rivals fraternize off-camera.
• Quote (Hasan, 36:13):
  “I can’t lie about who I am because I’m live for eight hours a day, seven days a week.”
• Both argue that for many in media, it’s all an act, a performance with real-world stakes—but for Hasan, the stakes are personal and the risk is real.

2. Facing Hostility from Both Left and Right

(12:10 – 14:00; 49:14 – 52:45)

• Hasan reflects on being labeled radical or even a “terrorist” (often with dark humor) by both Republicans and centrist/liberal Democrats.
• Discusses the hostility he receives from centrist Democratic operatives and lobbyist groups—frustrated that the activist base is becoming more influential.
• Quote (Hasan, 12:17):
  "Liberals get mad at me about that exact influence that they think I wield... I do have some influence, certainly, and I think it's mostly within the activist base of the party—the door knockers, the community organizers, the labor union organizers..."
• This vitriol, ironically, comes as much from Democrats as Republicans, as he pushes the party in a bolder direction.

3. Influence of Streaming & the Left’s New Media Ecosystem

(81:37 – 84:10)

• Hasan outlines his evolution from The Young Turks to building his own community via Twitch streaming, noting the power of interactive, unscripted media.
• Addresses the unique, double-edged sword of streaming: everything is live and open for scrutiny, while “clipping farms” organize to take content out of context for right-wing audiences.
• On the accusation that he’s the “Joe Rogan of the Left”:
  Quote (Hasan, 38:53):
  “He’s kind of a dumbass, but… not a word my friend would use. There are a lot of goons. Trevor would never say Joe Rogan. Trevor would say friend. Confidant.”

4. America’s Structural Problems: Rotating Villains and Party Paralysis

(60:37 – 65:27)

• Explains the concept of the “rotating villain” in the Democratic Party, where a small number of party members always block meaningful reforms—by design, not chance.
• Quote (Hasan, 61:22):
  “There’s always a vote that will spoil a radical agenda that a Democrat runs on.… If you’re wondering why they’re not doing certain things, it’s because they’re not supposed to be doing it. They’re supposed to be defending corporations.”
• Contrasts this with Republican discipline and openness about corporate friendliness.

5. Policy, Messaging, and Why Establishment Democrats Lose

(13:12 – 14:00; 40:12 – 42:36; 55:05 – 57:26)

• Critiques Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton’s losses as a function of weak, unclear policy messaging and failure to represent economic interests.
• Argues America is desperate for anti-establishment candidates who can communicate material benefits—regardless of gender, race, or ideology.
• The Democrats' ongoing “vibe session” messaging (“your vibes are bad, not the economy”) is seen as fundamentally out of touch.
• Quote (Hasan, 71:44): "People are suffering and they want an alternative. And in some ways, that's what Donald Trump did in both 2016 and then when those wounds were not healed or addressed after four years of Biden..."

6. Identity, Misogyny, and Systemic Barriers

(48:54 – 54:44)

• Trevor and Hasan explore whether America’s inability to elect a woman is about more than just messaging—does misogyny account for a meaningful loss in votes?
• Hasan notes:
  “I think in the United States of America, hatred for women is definitely a real thing. We live in a patriarchal society, but we also live in a very anti-black society. … I don’t discount the notion that people who are not old white guys are gonna have a harder go at it. That’s certainly true. But I think they can overcome that with good policies.” (55:05)

7. The Rise of Democratic Socialism and the DSA

(65:27 – 69:13)

• Points to successful left-wing municipal candidates (e.g., Zoran Mamdani), surging DSA membership, and the growing appeal of democratic socialism to young people, grounded in the failure of the status quo.
• Discusses the left’s challenge of building class consciousness in a system deliberately set up to stifle it.

8. Media Manipulation, Manufactured Consent & Digital Propaganda

(98:50 – 102:14)

• Trevor references a New Yorker interview with the CEO of Flutify, detailing how online “groundswell” and influencer campaigns can manufacture the illusion of public opinion, including in politics, eroding basic trust in society.
• Hasan warns of the coming consequences:
  “We are on the precipice of something that I don't think society is ready for.… it goes beyond just politics and business. It goes to like the erosion of society which ... leads to the ultimate forms of fascism. Because if everyone is scared...nobody trusts anyone, we then look to one strong man who will protect us all and create the calm that we need.” (101:48)

9. The Immigrant Question and Scapegoating

(110:48 – 113:14)

• Trevor and Hasan analyze the cyclical tendency of societies to suddenly “notice” immigrants during times of economic hardship, leading to scapegoating and regressive politics.
• Trevor’s personal anecdote on sharing with the less fortunate:
  “When we had food in my house ... I would run over, giddy, to that guy, and I'd give him bread and stew and some money...it's when my mom opened her purse when it was empty...I was like, nah lady. That guy there, he should not be getting our money...”
• Hasan traces this back to the top: “There’s also, like, wealthy racists out there who are, I think, advancing this propaganda and specifically directing the attention back to immigrants ... because no one wants the attention to be directed at them. So they go, oh, it’s the woke feminism, or it’s the transgenders, or it’s the immigrants that are responsible for it.” (113:39)

10. Policy vs. Personality; Holding Power to Account

(123:41 – 125:42)

• Hasan pushes for outcome-oriented politics, not party loyalty or personality cults:
  “There shouldn’t be any loyalty to a party or a brand, especially if that party hasn’t done enough to deserve your loyalty.… At the end of the day, they’re public servants. They work for us, for all of us.”
• Ends with a Deng Xiaoping quote:
  “A black cat or a white cat, it doesn’t matter, as long as it catches the rat.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On authenticity in media:
  “I can’t lie about who I am because I’m live for eight hours a day, seven days a week.” — Hasan (36:13)

• On the false binary in US politics:
  “At its root, we have two liberal parties. One is actually now turning into an illiberal party. One is turning into a fascist party as fascism rose 100 years ago when liberalism was failing.” — Hasan (85:15)

• On systemic inertia:
  “They care about managing the crisis and they care about doing PR for the crisis and they care about winning reelection and maintaining the current system no matter how cruel it is.” — Hasan (63:25)

• On misinformation as material support:
  “They are trying to expand it into speech. … They are trying to punish dissidents and they're trying to erode the First Amendment. Really.” — Hasan (22:51)

• On class solidarity:
  “They got the money, but we got the people. And that is something that they want to squash before it becomes a big problem.” — Hasan (113:58)

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Key Timestamps

• The “kayfabe” of political commentary: 33:39
• Hasan on being radicalized by centrist Democrats: 13:12
• The “rotating villain” and why big ideas die in Congress: 60:37
• America’s allergy to left-wing politics—challenges, polling: 38:36, 65:27
• Crisis of democracy, manufactured consent, AI-powered propaganda: 98:50
• The immigrant scapegoat cycle: 110:48
• Hasan’s prescription for the American left: 116:52
• Labels vs outcomes: 125:00
• Wrap up: 126:09

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Tone and Flow

• Trevor’s Playfulness and Probing Style: Jokes, impressions, and personal anecdotes keep the discussion alive, yet he continually draws out deeper philosophical reflections.
• Hasan’s Candor and Relentlessness: Earnest, unapologetically leftist, full of historical analogy and granular policy critique, while poking fun at accusations and at the circus of modern American politics.

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Summary Takeaways

Trevor and Hasan lay bare the contradictions, crises, and opportunities facing American politics. Hasan’s message: the Democratic Party’s problems can’t be solved with branding or more influencers, but with sincere, bold policies that address people’s material needs. The rise of the young leftist base, the DSA’s expansion, and the openness to democratic socialism signal an insurgency against party inertia. Yet, the forces of misinformation, authoritarian drift, and elite scapegoating loom large. The conversation, full of humor and radical candor, bounces between the American, South African, and global context, concluding with the conviction that only honest advocacy and outcome-focused organizing can shift the balance for ordinary people.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Trevor Noah]

What do you think?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Even if it's 3 percentage points. No, bro. What do you mean, what do I think?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Can a woman run the country?

[Trevor Noah]

Run the country anytime, any day?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Let me put it this way, Eugene. Yeah. I'm even gonna go a step further, my friend. I'm even gonna go a step further myself.

[Trevor Noah]

He's going a step further.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Let me. Let me say this, my man. In a world where we have lived through multiple world wars and famines and civil wars, and in that world, that's not the time to say, can women do this or not? Does that make sense 100%. If our plane was flying.

[Hasan Piker]

If our plane ruined it already.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I was saying, if our plane was flying with no turbulence, no crashes, no disasters at all, if our airline, as men, was running flawlessly, then I'd be

[Trevor Noah]

like, ah, ladies, on time.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Ladies, take a back seat. This is not the time for you to be flying this thing. We got it. The fellas got it. But I'm just saying, the way the fellas have been handling things, the fellas

[Trevor Noah]

don't got it right now.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

How much are you paying for gas? That's the fellas. I don't see any women involved in those negotiations, invasions. I'm just saying. So. I'm not saying the women would be better. I'm not saying that.

[Trevor Noah]

You're not saying they'll be better.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I'm just saying that they'll be okay. We should not act like the thing that is happening now is the one.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, but sending out one lady to go against many fellas that are out there running countries and starting wars and conflicts.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

You know who was one of the most.

[Trevor Noah]

That woman would most effective?

[Hasan Piker]

Margaret Thatcher.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Angela Merkel.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, God.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Angela Merkel was one of the most effective in that. Now, she's not perfect by any means, but I still have. I've yet to meet a perfect president. I'm going to put it out there.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. I am diametrically opposed to all of these conversations. I say no women. No, I'm kidding. I was like that.

[Trevor Noah]

1.

[Hasan Piker]

I think we got him.

[Trevor Noah]

It's a wrap.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

This is what now with trevor noah. All right, Eugene, let's play a little game. You know, make something fun. Two truths and a lie. Here we go. One, I've had to tell a world leader that their fly was undone. 2. When getting dressed, I don't do sock, sock, shoes, shoe, shoe. I do sock, shoe, sock, shoe. Three, I've been a Verizon customer for 11 years. What do you think?

[Trevor Noah]

Very confused. First of all, why would A world leader. Own a fly. Because those things just come uninvited. Secondly, lying to your friends is not cool. There's never been a game.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, Eugene, fly is for, like, the zip is what? And then it's. It's not a lie. It's a game where I'm trying to. It's like I give you information. Okay, I lied. All three are true, Eugene. And in case you were thinking, you know, Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your ATT or T mobile bill, they'll give you a better deal. And the reason I've been with them for this long is just because I travel so much. I need a network that's reliable. That's right. A better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on planned streaming and phone deals. Take your AT&T or T mobile bill to your local Verizon store today. Get your better deal and start saving for real. Based on root metrics, best overall Mobile Network Performance, U.S. 2nd HALF 2025. All rights reserved. You must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions, and restrictions apply. So do you understand how. Two truths. And do you understand it now?

[Trevor Noah]

I understand that you didn't have to lie first before telling me that Verizon is the best.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, I wasn't lying. Eugene. It's not a lie. I wouldn't lie to you. It's a game. Okay, I'm sorry I lied. Ah,

[Hasan Piker]

Tech changed the world. But so did the bubonic Plague.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Sundays exclusively on AMC and amc.

[Hasan Piker]

The highly anticipated new drama series, the Audacity.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Genius is about being unhinged enough to do something outrageous.

[Hasan Piker]

The show that Mashable says tears Silicon

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Valley a new one.

[Hasan Piker]

People who have no integrity. Did you leak the acquisition? R. No.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Maybe from one of the minds behind

[Hasan Piker]

Succession and Better Call Saul.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

We want to save the world. Or control it. Most of us go. Dr.

[Hasan Piker]

Evil, the audacity.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

All new Sundays, exclusively on AMC and amc.

[Trevor Noah]

Plus,

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Why would you not want to put it up there?

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, the cap was gone?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, but he put on the floor. Like, put.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, he doesn't want it.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I want your hat.

[Hasan Piker]

He's an anti communist.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Vicious.

[Hasan Piker]

Anti.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

He's actually anti cap. Yeah, his father was killed by a cap.

[Trevor Noah]

No cap.

[Hasan Piker]

No cap. Okay, good. Father was killed by a cap.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And his grandfather was killed by a cap.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And from that day onwards, he vowed no cap.

[Hasan Piker]

I'm a. I'm a EFF loyalist. Oh, you Are, Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, lying.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So, so tell me why.

[Hasan Piker]

I'm just kidding. I mean, I was hoping, I was hoping you said no. I mean, I, I, I, I think the, the environment of panic around him is very funny. Or was. Well, now he's, yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

What, what's happening? What, what, I mean, obviously you, you can't speak for everyone, but what's, what's, what are people saying on the ground in South Africa right now about Julius?

[Trevor Noah]

He, he lost people when he was on the side of illegal migration.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Oh, really?

[Trevor Noah]

So he said this, this one Africa, because his plan was four years ago, he wanted to branch out the EFF into other African countries. And the one place that he failed the most was Zimbabwe, because the vice president of Zimbabwe said, you keep your

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

things over there and then don't bring them here.

[Trevor Noah]

And then the same Zimbabweans that were saying, we love this guy did not vote for him still. They voted for Zanu pf. And then now there's a new group in South Africa called March on March, which is a social movement group that is now demonstrating and picketing against foreign immigrants and is saying there's a deadline by 30 June. All the illegal immigrants must be gone.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

We always have that in South Africa every few years.

[Trevor Noah]

So he's saying they must stay. And then they're like, you've lost time.

[Hasan Piker]

So he was too woke

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

at the wrong time for his crowd.

[Hasan Piker]

He went off the deep end on two worlds. They were like, we love. When you were singing Kill Deborah, but then you started saying, you know, you started talking about this Pan African nationalist movement. I don't fuck with that. Yeah, South Africa for South Africans only.

[Trevor Noah]

And also when you look young, with extreme views used, you're more palatable.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Oh, interesting.

[Hasan Piker]

Young.

[Trevor Noah]

He was young.

[Hasan Piker]

Okay. I was going to.

[Trevor Noah]

Now he doesn't look so young anymore. Yes. When you see those images of Nelson Mandela being defiant. Ron Trial, he was young. Chris Hany, when he just came back from exile, he was young. So he was also the young guy in the ANC telling people that they've, you know, their time lost their way. Yeah, but now when you look old but you still fighting, people are like, no, at some point you have to, you know. And Andrew Tate with gray, with a gray beard would not fly.

[Hasan Piker]

Andrew Tate?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. With a gray beard.

[Hasan Piker]

With a gray beard. Yeah. I'm starting to get a gray beard.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Oh, you got, then you got a few more years of revolutionary in you,

[Hasan Piker]

and then it's over.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Actually, let me, let me ask you a question. Like, like I always wonder this for anyone who gets to step into an environment that. That they have haven't been into. If you walk into a room now, like, you've walked into this podcast.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

How would you introduce yourself? And how do you think people perceive you when you walk in?

[Hasan Piker]

This is an interesting question. I don't think about it at all. But I would introduce myself as I'm Hasan Piker. That's it. If people ask me what I do for a living, I just say, I'm a political commentator.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Okay. And then they would say, like, oh, what politics do you commentate on?

[Hasan Piker]

I just say, well, it depends if I'm talking to a border patrol agent. This did happen. This did have. This happens a lot. I'm leaving Canada. I was on a day trip. I talked to Gabor Mate at the Web summit in Vancouver, and I realized I have a jacket on. There's a hammer and sickle pin that a fan of mine gave me. It's on the jacket. I'm wearing a Democratic Socialist of America New York City hat. I immediately take it off, I rip the pin off, and I walk up to the counter, and the guy's like, oh, what are you doing? It's a day trip. That's strange. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm just. I'm a speaker. And he's like, oh, what do you talk about? Like, what do you do? I'm like, oh, I'm an influencer. And he's like, what do you influence on? What do you speak on? I was like, well, you know what's going on with young men? And I tried to keep it as, like, broad as possible. And then he got excited. He's like, so are you a political speaker or a religious speaker? He knew you? And I was like, no, I just talk about lifestyle.

[Trevor Noah]

He knew you?

[Hasan Piker]

No, no, if he knew me, he would have killed me. He was in the world.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, he was in the. Were you going into Canada?

[Hasan Piker]

No, no, I was leaving Canada, but the American Border patrol is inside of Canada. So there's a couple places, like in Ireland, America, and I think Mexico as well, where they have, like, stationed their own border. Yeah, you can.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

You can do the border process on that side.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So that on this side, you can just land domestic and be on your merry way.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, and it's. It's good, though, because, like, usually those guys are more woke. Like, those border patrol guys are more on that side. Yeah. On the American than the American ones, I think. So they just kind of go, all right, well, you're Fine, get in there.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, but the reason I ask you is because you have, especially right now, you have such an insane reputation that precedes you, depending on where people get their news.

[Hasan Piker]

Mm.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Do you know what I mean? Like, I find it so interesting. So if you read, let's say, what people would term mainstream or legacy media, you know, like old newspapers and stuff like that, I would say that you are categorized as an extreme leftist who is, like, radical. That's what they say. Right. And then if I go on, like, Twitch or any of, like, the younger, you know, web places, wherever they are, people are like, yeah, this is. Hasan's a political commentator who's actually speaking about what's happening, and he's not afraid to tell his truth. If I go to right wing media, I mean, that one's obvious. You're a terrorist. I think you know this.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Of course, sometimes they call you a radical terrorist, and I'm like, understand the difference? Is there, like, a tame terrorist?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, there's a moderate terrorism.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, there's a moderate terrorist. Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

Moderate terrorism is Nancy Pelosi. Oh, we're both communists.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I see.

[Hasan Piker]

But she's a more moderate terrorist.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Ah, so you're a radical terrorist and she's a moderate. Okay, I see. Okay, so there's that give it away. Yeah, but, like, where do you situate yourself in it? Or do you. Do you. Do you even think you sit in one place? Because I'll tell you why I asked this question. I've learned from myself personally, in life, depending on who I meet, they have a very different starting point as to where to position me. Does that make sense?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So I want to know if you position yourself in one place or if you are just a human being navigating. Like, how do you. How do you position yourself?

[Hasan Piker]

I'm just. I'm just a normal guy. So from my perspective, I. I just see myself as a regular dude who has a lot of strong opinions and isn't afraid to talk about those opinions. And I know that sounds almost like a political answer, but it's just true. I don't think of myself as, like, a famous person. I don't think of myself as, like, a dangerous radical, obviously. I just want what's best, what I think is best for a society.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Huh?

[Hasan Piker]

And that's it.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But you are. You are famous now, I guess. No, not your guess. Come on, Hassan. I mean, come on, Hassan, don't be humble. Here with us, Hasad is number one

[Trevor Noah]

on the call sheet and fighting it. No, just Serve the other people first.

[Hasan Piker]

No.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Whether you like it or not, like, because you have been thrust into a spotlight where people listen to what you're saying, people look to you. I would even argue that you have the ability to shift and move people's votes and opinions in the country now apparently.

[Hasan Piker]

Don't talk about that too much though, cuz everybody gets mad at me when people start addressing that.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Wait, really?

[Hasan Piker]

Liberals get mad at me about that exact influence that they think I wield? I don't think I'm like a kingmaker per se, the way that it's been presented. Yeah, I do have some influence, certainly, and I think it's mostly within the activist base of the party, the door knockers, the community organizers, the labor union organizers, rank and filers and whatnot. So we do have the capacity to offer a lot of help to candidates that align with us. And I think that's very frustrating for obviously the Republicans who think we're dangerous terrorists, but certainly even for some centrists in the Democratic Party as well. Because I've been getting attacked obviously my entire life and my entire career by Republicans, neo Nazis, the far right and everything else.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

But I would say that in these last couple of years, I've also started getting a lot of ire from Democrats, moderate Democrats, corporate backed Democrats, neoliberals in general, like the Third Way, and all of these other institutions, like lobbyist groups that want the Democratic Party to, to maintain this moderate pivot permanently. Constantly conciliatory to right wing culture war framing. And I obviously oppose that. And I think that's precisely the reason why Kamala Harris lost. It's the reason why Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump now twice. And I want to change that, but these lobbyists don't want to change that because that's where their bread is buttered and they get very pissed off.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

You say your whole life and your whole career, but take us back. What, what brings you to this point? Like we meet you at this moment in your life, but like, how, how does, how does Hasan Piker come to be?

[Hasan Piker]

Um, like, where were you born?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

How were you raised?

[Hasan Piker]

I was born in America.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, no, I'm not saying it like a border Asian. I'm saying that to me. I'm saying like a life story. You're so defensive about it, you got scared. This man is like, I'm like, where were you born? I was born here. I was born in America.

[Trevor Noah]

Canada.

[Hasan Piker]

Day job still lingers. I don't know if you've heard, but the federal government's coming.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

We actually need to talk about that.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, but no. So I need to say it. I was born here. I'm an American citizen. I could run for president. I would never do that though. So don't get scared.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Oh, man. You know, you know what's funny about this is I do find it hilarious that over the years, in a good way, I'm not saying this in a bad way at all, but over the years, the border agents at American airports and ports have become increasingly immigrants.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So it's interesting to be at the border.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Interviewed by an immigrant who's now, I'm assuming in America.

[Trevor Noah]

It's an amazing experience for an immigrant.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, but. But it's also interesting.

[Trevor Noah]

Get it?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, but it's also interesting when it feels like they're more likely to kick you out.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. No, no.

[Trevor Noah]

Never had that feeling.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

You've never had that feeling?

[Trevor Noah]

Never.

[Hasan Piker]

That's crazy.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no. In fact, I feel like it's a.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Oh, it's give him hell.

[Trevor Noah]

I have a nine hour shift. But you, on the other hand, that's beautiful.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, I like time. I like that.

[Trevor Noah]

I've never felt that way.

[Hasan Piker]

You have an unbelievably positive outlook.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, but he's a positive guy.

[Hasan Piker]

That I think is borderline naivete and maybe even dangerous.

[Trevor Noah]

You know how many times I've gotten through with that attitude?

[Hasan Piker]

That's crazy.

[Trevor Noah]

My Spanish is great at the border. What are you talking about? I have control.

[Hasan Piker]

I have the exact opposite experience.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Really?

[Hasan Piker]

That's crazy. Where I'm like, oh, fuck, here we go. Every time I have to deal with customs of border patrol. I mean, I've been detained by customers. Have you been flagged? Well, yes, both when I'm flying in because they do the, the triple S or whatever. I got the triple S. Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

What's the triple S, yo?

[Hasan Piker]

So random fellow, triple S, random security.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

It's actually four S's. Maybe four.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, yeah, but they don't, but they don't show you.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, so you get to the window.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Okay, so I'll explain. Yeah, you, you have your, your ticket for your flights, right? If you have it on your phone, it just tells you, no, you can't check in. Doesn't tell you. It's like you just need to speak to somebody. When you get to the airport, just speak to somebody. You're like, why I want to check in? They're like, just relax. You checked in, but we won't give you a boarding pass.

[Trevor Noah]

Just talk to someone.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

You get to the Airport, when you get to the desk, they ask for your passport. They ask for everything. They then print your boarding pass. They say nothing to you. And then on your boarding pass underneath, like a bunch of random, you know, all the stuff. Ticket, number, boarding time, all of that.

[Trevor Noah]

I think there's also some bullshit numbers there that don't mean.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, there's just four S's.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. Random security clearance.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, it's just. It just goes sss.

[Hasan Piker]

Super secret security search.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Is that what it is?

[Hasan Piker]

I don't think so.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

That would be good.

[Hasan Piker]

That would be good.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And then what happens is you move through the airport.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

You.

[Trevor Noah]

So still nothing. No one.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Nothing happens.

[Trevor Noah]

Generally your bags are checked in, but

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

then when you get to the gate.

[Trevor Noah]

The boarding gate.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, yeah, the boarding gate. Everyone. And then they pull you aside and. Excuse me, would you like to take off your underwears, please?

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, yeah, they do a. They do a special. I mean, they don't do cafe search,

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

but they go like, squatting, cough. No, no, no, no, no. No squatting. Just coughing.

[Hasan Piker]

Well, maybe they do it. Maybe. Maybe they do it to other people.

[Trevor Noah]

But wait, so they pull you to the side.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Then you have to go into a little secret room, which is not a secret.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Some. Some airports just. They just create, like a partition.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So you outside, but inside. And they empty everything.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. And sometimes you're with a big group and they're all walking and you get pulled to the side and you're like, see you on the flight, hopefully. And that's usually when you're on foreign soil coming back into the United States of America because they have, like double triple tsa, basically, when you're an American citizen, I guess, coming back. But I got detained at o' Hare Airport by customs and border patrol on my way back from France. I was about to speak at University of Chicago at the Politics Institute, and they pulled me aside and they had revoked my global entry, which I never got to use, which is really annoying. I hate that it took so long. I had to do all these interviews.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah. And you have to give your life to them.

[Hasan Piker]

And they gave it to me. I got the card and I never even got to use it. The first time I use it, I get detained.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And.

[Hasan Piker]

And, yeah, they pulled me aside into a secondary detention area where there's like an interrogation room and you sit in there. Yeah, it was in the news. Yeah, they did the secondary detention and then interrogation where they asked me, like, what are your thoughts on Israel? What are your thoughts on Donald Trump? Have you ever been in contact with, like, anyone from Hamas, Hezbollah, Ansar Allah movement, like, the Houthis. All this stuff.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

When you're sitting there in that moment, was there a part of you that just goes, like, just say nice things about Donald Trump?

[Hasan Piker]

No. I mean, I.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Little bits.

[Hasan Piker]

Well, there were. Here's what I did. When they kept asking me about Hamas, what my thoughts are, I just kept repeating, hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by the State Department. I just kept repeating that line over and over again.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

It's just a fact.

[Hasan Piker]

It's just a fact.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

It's not.

[Trevor Noah]

It's not your opinion.

[Hasan Piker]

It's not my opinion. It's just the fact about Hamas. And then when they asked me about Trump, I was like, that's when I did pushback, where I was like, yeah, I don't like him. What do you mean? Yeah, damn. I was like, yeah, I don't like him. What are you talking about? I'm an American citizen entering my country. Like, that's ridiculous. And they didn't give me too much stress about that, but they did ask a lot about, like, the people that I had interviewed. There was this Yemeni teenager who was 19 years old, and the media dubbed him Tim Houthi Chalamet. He was.

[Trevor Noah]

That was creative.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

That sounds like something you would say.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

It is, but I didn't.

[Trevor Noah]

No, you didn't say it.

[Hasan Piker]

He never.

[Trevor Noah]

But creative words.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

This one kind of my vibe, but definitely not me. Can you say that word?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. Tim Houthi Shalamand. So, yeah, I did get him. I did get that from Trevor, by the way. No, you did. He texted it to me. Don't involve me. He texted it to me. He was like, that's a good one. You should use this.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Don't involve me. I know my friend's words on here.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, yeah. He's like, look, look. Obviously, he said, obviously, the Ansar Allah movement is doing the right thing.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Wow.

[Trevor Noah]

Wow.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Edit, edit. Asterisk, asterisk, delete, delete. Asterisk, delete, Asterisks, asterisks, edit.

[Hasan Piker]

So, you know, it's cool, though. It's fine. You can deny it.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Now, this guy you're playing here, my man. I wasn't born in this country, my man. You playing games here?

[Hasan Piker]

But, yeah, they were asking me about whether this person was actually a part of the Houthi movement. And I was like, I got lucky, I think. Or they did this deliberately. The guy I was talking to was going back to what you were talking about, an Arab CBP officer. So he was knowledgeable about the region, at least.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Okay, okay.

[Hasan Piker]

So I think he was like a counterterrorism guy. And I was just like, no, the dude's name is Rashid Al Haddad. He's Sunni. He's a Sunni Yemeni. And obviously his last name is not Al Houthi and he's not Shia. So of course he's not a part of the Houthi movement, not a part of Ansar Allah. He's like, oh, okay, I understand that. But what's interesting about that is it's not illegal. Like, as an American citizen and as a member of the media, of course I'm gonna sometimes talk to members of, you know, state sponsored terrorist organizations. That's a normal part of the process. And it's. And it's protected by the First Amendment. Right. And I haven't. So I told them that I had not. But it is something that is very strange to ask someone who is a member of the media on their entry into the country, because I think they were trying to tie that back to offering material support. This is a real big point of contention right now in constitutional law as well.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

Where they are, the administration, the State Department, the government is trying to basically expand the boundaries of what constitutes for material support. Because material support, terrorist organizations, is very illegal.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And just to break that down for some. So we're on the same page.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

When you're saying material support of a terrorist organization, the United States government has said, like most governments, I'm assuming in the world, it is illegal to support terrorist organization overseas, financially or with arms.

[Trevor Noah]

Now it's becoming media, I guess.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But now that's an interesting thing.

[Hasan Piker]

But now they are trying to expand it into speech. And one of the first things that they did was actually legal counsel, which again, is a constitutionally protected right. So they were trying to prosecute lawyers that would defend someone who's been accused of terrorism. Exactly. And it didn't work. They put that on the back burner. But I think now with this administration, they're trying to punish dissidents and they're trying to erode the First Amendment. Really.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I mean, they could expand it. If you look at the nth degree, they could expand it to you even having an interview with somebody, regardless of your support of them. Because they could argue that the interview platform, platforming them. And so you've given them some of your material support, which is your subscriber base. Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

And that's obviously totally ridiculous, antithetical to the First Amendment. So what were you gonna say?

[Trevor Noah]

I'm saying yeah, no, no, no, I was agreeing with him. I was saying the audience is now seen as material support.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, it's, this is scary.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I was about to say, are you not scared living this life?

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, it's not great, it's definitely tense at times, but someone's got to do it, you know, And I, I, the way I see it is like I'm speaking for, for the most part, voiceless people, people whose voices are never heard. And someone has to do that. And I do believe in the better nature of man, that they, if they encounter this information and have a sense of charitability, they will understand and they will change their minds.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, but what I mean is like, I'm just talking about you on a human level. How has it affected how you move through the world? So there's our front facing selves and then there's the us that we just live with every single day. Like the person who hears bump in the middle of the night, the person who hears footsteps running behind them and it's a jogger. Like, has, have you found that your nervous system has changed over the years? That, you know, as your profile has evolved?

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, I've had to deal with cyber stalkers for most of my life before I gained like more mainstream credibility and more mainstream attention.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

So I'm pretty used to being on the receiving end of death threats, doxxing, swatting, things of that nature. And unfortunately it's a part of the job. It shouldn't be, it's horrifying, but you just kind of get used to it after a while.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

You, you say it's a part of the job, but I say this with all due respect. It's not necessarily, it's a part of what your job has sort of become. Like, like, I, I, I think, I think you, you, you have a lot of bravery in saying this, but there's a lot of people who don't have this as a part of their job. Like, there's a lot of news anchors who don't have these issues. There's a lot of people who are, you know, they're hosting like a debate show on cable television, they're in war

[Trevor Noah]

zones and they come back and they don't have this.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So I would love to know, like, when it first started, like, what was the, which platform were you on where you started to notice? Oh, I'm not just breaking through to the people I'm speaking to, but I'm starting to piss off the people I'm speaking against.

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, even when I was at the Young Turks all the way back in, like, 2014, 2015, when I would, like, randomly appear on some of the shows. And then certainly after 2016, when I had my own show on the platform on Facebook, called the Breakdown, where I started noticing that. I think that was the first time I ever saw one of these forums where neo Nazis congregate, where they were mapping out the blueprints of my apartment and the apartment complex.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Are you kidding me?

[Hasan Piker]

And talking about how I had two pit bull, a pitbull, and my roommate had one as well. And they were talking about how, like, you need to come in with like a stick of salami or something to like, bribe the dogs. And then, you know, and how they would just like, break in to my house and kill me. And that was terrifying when it first happened, but that is so commonplace that I just don't even think of it. That was, you know, more than 10 years ago at this point. So it's just, you know, it's not something that I. I think about all that much or place a lot of emphasis on because I feel like that would almost allow these people to win because they want to create an environment of fear, an environment of tension that disrupts what I want to do. And I'm not gonna give in to that. And I mean, I even said this after Charlie Kirk got assassinated. I was supposed to debate him two weeks after his assassination. Obviously it didn't happen. But one of the things that people kept asking me is like, do you have security? Are you changing things? And for the first week or so, I had to cancel some of my public appearances. But shortly after that, I started going back out there, going out in public, going to protests again. And people kept saying, aren't you worried? And my answer always is the same. It's just, I can't let, you know, fear change what I want to do. I can't let fear influence my life in this way. So I choose not to think about it. Many of my friends think I'm insane for that reason. But I guess sometimes you gotta be a little insane.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I mean, if you want to change things, there's a certain level of insanity that's required. It doesn't matter what field you're in. If you're in science, if you're in music, if you're in comedy, if you're in political commentary, it doesn't matter what you're in. But. But I. I guess what intrigues me about you is how it doesn't seem to have necessarily changed you or. Or Maybe it has and I, and I haven't seen it, you know, so when you stream, one of the things about streaming that's unique is that, you know, as the name suggests, it's like a stream of consciousness, you know, so when you were on the Young Turks, you were like, very prepared. And, you know, this is something that's gonna be put out and it can be edited and it can be, but when you're streaming, it's you, you say something and it's out already. It's, I've always wondered how much stress that puts on you because, you know, when we're saying stuff, anything can come out of your mouth.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And then there's a moment where you

[Hasan Piker]

go like, damn, like, all the stuff that's not gonna make it to the final cut that you said about these state sponsored terrorist organizations. You see this guy? You see this guy? Which made me, it shocked me. Did it shock you?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Shocked?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I was flabbergasted.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. I just, I had no idea, couldn't believe what was going on. I had no idea what, what opinions you hold so much. But.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, no but, but like I'm saying, when you're, when you're in that space, you, you also didn't change your R. So this is, okay, this is what I, I, I, I notice. And it's, it's something that's always plagued me in American political commentary. A lot of how American political commentators act is not sort of how they are, and it's not how they feel.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

It seems like put on a Persona depending on.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah. And, and I feel like there's a lot of money to be made from doing this.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

There's a lot of famous, there's a lot of fame, there's, there's a lot of power. But my issue is that it's not them. So. I remember when the first time this, this happened to me, it was a rude awakening. I had been on the Daily show for like a year or two years, and I got invited to an event. It was like the hundred most influential, like, news people in America type thing, but it was only like journalists and news and whatever. And I get there and I'll never forget somebody from an extreme, like, right wing publication. They came up to me and when they walked up to me, I genuinely thought they were gonna fight. I was like, okay, I'm ready. Mm.

[Trevor Noah]

Mm.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I just thought, okay, this person's coming to fight. I've talked shit about them and what they've said. I believe it genuinely. They're gonna fight me. And they came up to me and stretched out hand was like, hey, look at this guy. Hey, Trevor, how you doing, man? What's going on, huh? Look at this. Not bad, eh?

[Hasan Piker]

Not bad.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And I promise you now, not even God as my witness. Kibuka. Anyone who worked with me at the time can tell you the next day

[Trevor Noah]

when I walked, those are higher than God.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah. Because you can't ask God. Maybe God will tell you a different thing.

[Hasan Piker]

That's crazy.

[Trevor Noah]

No, because God is stuff that he said.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. Now he's. Now we know he's a radical atheist as well.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, because my thing is when people say, God is my witness, you can't ask God yourself. Maybe. Maybe you don't even know which God I'm saying. But I can also give you humans in case you want to ask them.

[Trevor Noah]

So true. For reference sake. Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

The next day, first thing I said, not only did I not engage in this conversation, I actually felt like an asshole because you could see he was looking at me like, why are you being like this?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Dang.

[Hasan Piker]

I've had this exact same experience.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But then I. Yeah, but then I remember going, oh, you've had this.

[Trevor Noah]

I remember going, am I. I'm taking this seriously.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I was like, oh, I'm saying what I believe. But you are in wrestling.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I'm out here thinking, I am fighting the Incredible Hulk. You know what I mean? Like, I'm Hulk Hogan. I'm. Let me tell you something, brother. And then when I meet him, he's just like, hey, I'm Terry. Yeah. And I was like, no, I came here to destroy you.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Because this is how I feel. The reason I bring this up is because, you know, you look at Charlie Kirk, you look at a lot of the rhetoric in America. I find it interesting how in all of those moments, people who were espousing certain opinions and ideas very quickly, like, pull down a mask and they go, hey, you know, I know sometimes in this country people get heated and. But, you know, we. We need to. And I'm like, wait, wait, what is happening right now?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, we need to cool down the temperature.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But I go, you, favorite word.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

You've said that Donald Trump is the second coming of Hitler. You've said that this man is going to abolish the Constitution on public platform. You've said these things as a person.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Then something happens. Someone shoots at Donald Trump and misses. And then you come out the next day and you go, guys, guys, guys. I. I know that he might be the second coming of Hitler, but he's our president and we have to stand behind. I'm like, do you not see. No, but I'm like, do you not see the inconsistency of what you're doing? And more. More dangerously, do you not see that you are creating kayfabe? You're creating wrestling with real people's lives? Yeah. And then when you start to get afraid, you go, why are you guys taking it seriously? And so I want to know from you, because you've remained, like, consistent through it all. Do you find it difficult to just, like, be you when you know that some people are playing a character version of themselves?

[Hasan Piker]

Uh, so I had the almost identical experience that you're describing when I went to the White House Correspondence dinner, weekend activities. One of the weekends many, many years ago, when I was at the Young Turks and they were throwing an event, I didn't actually attend the event itself, but I walked into a bar and this is at the peak of, like, Trump won. All of a sudden, the entire press is there, right? The press pool is there. All these commentary people are there. And I think it was Kellyanne Conway that walked into the bar and the room lit up because everyone was excited. Anthony Scaramucci, Sean Spicer, all these people walk in and these liberal. These liberal commentary people, these journalists who have, like, written scathing reports about these people were excited to take photos of. No.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yes. This thing. This is the thing.

[Hasan Piker]

And that's where I was reminded of. And I hate this guy, obviously, rest in piss. Andrew Breitbart. But. But I was reminded of his statement about how D.C. is Hollywood for ugly people. It's true. I mean, sometimes you can be an asshole, but you can get it right. And he was right about that. It is Hollywood for ugly people, where it's, for the most part, the Kayfabe is absolutely real. Like, these guys see what they're doing as theatrics. For the most part, they don't to say that all reporters are like this. Obviously not. There's some brilliant journalists out there and some great people in the commentary sphere as well. And there's certainly issues that they do care about, right. Where they are uncompromising, where their true side comes out, their true opinions come out. But for the most part, everyone in that bubble, in the media bubble, is. Is playing a role, and they. They see it as such. And maybe it's. It's not dissimilar to, I guess, like, having a co worker that you disagree with vehemently, but, you know, you're chill towards them at the, at the water cooler. I don't know, maybe it's something like that, but I don't, I don't like that at all because, like, these are my real opinions. I can't lie about who I am because I'm live for eight hours a day, seven days a week.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, that's what I was, that's what I meant.

[Hasan Piker]

It's impossible for me to put on a Persona. I can be more buttoned up in moments like this on a podcast where I'm not like, you know, inundated with messages coming in from the side on the chat. Because, like, the, the medium that I occupy is, is very interactive. That, that's what makes it so different.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Right.

[Hasan Piker]

But the issues I talk about are emotionally charged and very personal for a lot of people. Right. It's very polarizing and it's a perfect disaster, to say the least. I mean, it's just, you have. You're talking about politics eight hours a day, seven days a week, and anyone from all around the world anonymously can come in and try to pick apart what you're saying or piss you off or say something heinous.

[Trevor Noah]

In real time.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, in real time. And many people do take advantage of that. That, in my opinion, creates really productive discourse and can be unproductive.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Oh, interesting.

[Hasan Piker]

But then on top of that, I have entire groups organized on the Internet that sit inside of discord servers and subreddits that spend a good deal of time watching and logging every single thing that happens on the stream so they can clip something out of context and then disseminate it to a lot of right wing groups. And I've noticed that this is something that happens almost exclusively to people on the left. People on the left have to face opposition from the entirety of the right wing, right? From moderate Republicans all the way to neo Nazis and white nationalists alike. But they also face a lot of opposition from a big chunk of the Democratic Party's commentary base as well. Not necessarily the voters, but certainly from consultant groups, lobbyists, and those invested in maintaining the corporate interests at the center of power in the Democratic Party. And AOC has to deal with this all the time as well. Bernie Sanders has to deal with this all the time as well. There's this very different set of standards for people who are bold advocates to make people's lives a little bit better than it actually is. People who do believe in that, people who are considered radical, I guess, for American politics, not so radical for European politics. I mean, Bernie Sanders would be the average politician in Norway. Right. His attitude, his views.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah. His ideas.

[Hasan Piker]

His views are not radical at all. As a matter of fact, he would. He probably slot into, like a center, maybe even a center Right party in some of these countries. Right. Or at least his output. But in America, if you're advancing the interests of Medicare for all, the interests of the people over interests of corporations and profit, you're seen as this crazy guy.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

A lot of people have started referring to you as the Joe Rogan of the left. How do you feel about that? I mean, I have my opinions, but I want to know. Cause you're the person they're speaking about. What you think about it.

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, I think Joe Rogan is a goon, but. A goon? Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

What a funny word.

[Hasan Piker]

He's kind of a dumbass, but not

[Trevor Noah]

a word my friend would use.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Goon. That's not me.

[Hasan Piker]

There are a lot of goon. Trevor would never say Joe Rogan. Trevor would say friend.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

Confidant. Trusted confidant. Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Ally.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Fellow bow hunter.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

[Trevor Noah]

Broadhead galore. Elk.

[Hasan Piker]

Elk.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Elk hunt. Elk eating. Yes.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. I mean, I don't align with Joe Rogan on virtually any issue, especially as of late.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But I think what they mean is,

[Hasan Piker]

like, saying, I'm, like, reaching out.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

They're saying, you are.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

There's this school of thought that says you are. What, ironically, the Democrats said they needed after Trump won even.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And then going into, like, Trump's second term.

[Trevor Noah]

Trump 2.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, Trump 2. I like sequels. They went like, oh, you know what? You know what's lacking on the left? The left doesn't have a Joe Rogan. The left doesn't have a manosphere. The left doesn't have a space where there's engaging hard discussion that isn't. Doesn't have a veneer of CNN on it, doesn't have the lobbyist stench on it. It needs. And then they said, this is the person. Hassan Piker is the Joe Rogan of the left. And that's what I mean is like, how do you respond to that?

[Hasan Piker]

So a couple things when they were doing that, they kept coming to me and going, you're the Joe Rogan of the left. What do you think is the problem with the party? And I kept telling him, this is an issue that you can't podcast your way out of. Like, this is a problem. This is a crisis within the ranks of the Democratic Party. It's a. It's a messaging problem. But more importantly, it's A policy problem. Right. Having a bunch of, you know, sponsored or well funded liberal content creators is probably good to combat some of the misinformation if they're, you know, focusing all their efforts on tackling, you know, the growth of right wing independent media that's still firmly committed to the party apparatus as a part of its, like, propaganda machine. But you're not necessarily going to win elections off of that alone. What needs to change is not the media ecosystem and the media environment. What needs to change is the party. One of the biggest issues with Kamala Harris was that she was incapable of defining herself with key policy prescriptions that people could identify with. And instead she was defined by her opposition. That's why the Kamala Harris for they them ad worked, I guess, if you ask the Democratic Party consultants. Not because everyone was, like, viciously transphobic and like, primarily invested in, like, punishing 1% of the American population. Certainly there's some people who wanted that, but it was because of a lack of clear messaging on key policy issues from the Kamala camp that allowed the opposition to define her. We have to fix that, was my argument. And I kept warning over and over again leading up to the election and certainly after the election. I kept talking about this all the time. They, of course, predictably, did not listen. They said, no, you're the Joe Rogan of the left. And then I was like, okay, all right, bet, sure. I'm going to now also push forward candidates that are bold, that are actually invested in making material changes that will improve people's lives. Zoram Mamdani was one of them. Right. And then they went, no, no, no, not like that. We don't want that actually, at all. You're a terrorist, actually. Hopefully Trump, he's right here. This guy. Get him. That's what it turned into.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

We'll be right back after the short break. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. Imagine this. You're at a checkout counter. You're ready to pay when you realize you don't have your wallet. Dun, dun, dun. You could drive all the way back home and you could get it. But you remember that you have your Apple card on your iPhone so you can tap to pay with Apple Pay. Imagine that. No need to carry a wallet. But, you know, one of the things I do like about having my card on my phone is we live in a world where you lose your card and then you don't know where it is. And then you're like, what do I do? Well, if your phone is connected to Your card and your card is connected to your phone. You know what's going on. The best thing about having the Apple card connected to your phone is you know what every transaction is. You know, like, sometimes you're like, what did I spend this month? The Apple card will show you one month. I had spent an obscene amount of money ordering videos online.

[Trevor Noah]

Just videos?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

They were just videos.

[Trevor Noah]

What kind of videos?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

That's not the point. The point is, I knew that I didn't want to order those videos anymore because I'd spent too much money on was videos on how to not spend money online.

[Trevor Noah]

I felt like I'd been duped.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Point is, Apple showed me what I was spending my money on, and I was able to change my spending habits. And you can do it too. I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase with my Apple card. That's unlimited daily cash back no matter where I shop. Apply for Apple card in the wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com youm know when the weather finally turns and everyone suddenly remembers they have friends? Well, that's when you know it's time to get outside, fire up the grill, and start planning all those sunny gatherings, pool days, weekend hangouts, Mother's Day, brunch, graduation, all of it. And what I like is keeping it simple. That's why I go to Whole Foods Markets, because they make gathering easy. You've got quality meat, fresh organic produce, and those seasonal bakery treats that somehow disappear before the guests even arrive. Hmm, I wonder who that was for the grill. It's all the good stuff. Organic chicken breast365 by Whole Foods Market. Lean ground beef, ready to cook kebabs. That's the kind of setup where even if you're not a grill expert, people still respect what you're doing. Oh, and then you round it out in produce. Avocados, heirloom tomatoes, strawberries, mangoes, raspberries. Suddenly your table looks like you planned this for days. And if you want to go a little further, the desserts do the work for you. Mango yuzu, chantilly cake, strawberry pretzel cream pie. Those are the moments where people stop talking and just eat. Ooh, ooh. Oh, I almost forgot. This is one of my favorite options. You let Whole Foods Market do most of the work. Prepared foods has everything. Quiche Lorraine, deviled eggs, family sized salads, cut fruit, veggie trays. You name it. You just show up relaxed. And people assume that you've been cooking all morning and then you act like you've been cooking all morning. And if you really want to take it easy, well, then let Whole Foods Market catering handle it all. Same quality, same great ingredients, just non the stress. Because at the end of the day, it's not about the grill. It's about the people around it and who prepared it. Me. Thank you very much. I'll take all the credits. Shop for all your summer favorites at Whole Foods Markets. If you're trying to be a little more intentional about what you wear day to day, well, Quince can help you with that. They've got pieces that feel easy, comfortable, and still put together. The fabrics feel elevated. The fits are clean. It's the kind of clothing where you don't have to think too hard, but you still look like you did. And I've realized that's actually the goal. You don't want to be standing in front of your closet negotiating with your clothes. You just want to put something on and get on with your life. Quince makes that easier. Think 100% European linen shorts and shirts starting at $34. Lightweight, breathable, especially when it's warm, but still structured enough that you don't feel like you just rolled out of bed. And what surprised me is how they're able to price everything. It's about 50 to 80% less than what you'd find at similar brands because Quince works directly with the factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're getting premium materials just without the markup. I picked up one of their linen shirts recently and it has been in constant rotation. Don't get me started on those sweaters. Oh, so comfortable. You know, it's just those pieces that just work. You can wear it out, you can wear it casually. It's comfortable, it breathes. And every time I put it on, I'm like, okay, this feels like I made an effort and it didn't cost what I thought something like that would. That's the balance. I like clothes that feel good, look good, and don't make you overthink it. So refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to Quince.com what now for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com what now for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com what now? There, there are a ton of articles written about you. As you're saying from the left Just about like how this guy's the worst thing to happen to the Democratic Party and this guy is. You are destabilizing what doesn't need to be more destabilized. You are. You know, it's funny. I actually wanna know what, what you think. I'm torn on the Kamala and Hillary thing because we are unable to run multiple simulations of our lives. Or at least, like, we don't know if we can. We always say that Hillary lost because of her messaging, blah, blah, blah. We say that Kamala Harris lost because of her messaging, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I sometimes think we take for granted the fact that they were both women. And I don't know how much you lose by being a woman running for president. America has never had a woman running president.

[Hasan Piker]

Radical. Misogynist.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, you can.

[Hasan Piker]

Cause I'm don't run women.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

This is how we get the clicks. No, but what I'm saying is. What I'm saying is this, right? Donald Trump lost an election. Who did he lose to? A man. No, no, stick with me on this, right? An old man who had never beaten anyone in any major election.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Office fight.

[Hasan Piker]

Well, you don't know that. I agree. But, you know, apparently he was.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

What?

[Trevor Noah]

You know, he did a lot for South Africa's liberation.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Who?

[Trevor Noah]

Joe Biden?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, yeah, Fully.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, fully. Apparently. Apparently, like, back in the day, he was. No, no. Really?

[Hasan Piker]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

100%.

[Hasan Piker]

He lied about getting arrested, though. Oh, yeah, yeah, he lied about that. And yes. No, he was actually anti apartheid. This is true.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yes, yes. Which was a big step when a

[Hasan Piker]

lot of people were not. Which was very strange because he was also radically in opposition to desegregation in the United States of America. And, and even at the same time that he was like, anti apartheid in South Africa, he literally was co. Sponsoring bills alongside Strom Thurmond. Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Why is this guy apartheid? I'm trying so hard, Sleepy Joe, but

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

he was against apartheid.

[Hasan Piker]

And also at the same time, he was against South African apartheid. He was very much in favor of Israel, which again, another contradiction.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, but you know what's interesting about that? I don't know if you've ever seen the, the, the, the interviews of Nelson Mandela when he comes to the United States just after he's been released from prison and he's like, free.

[Trevor Noah]

And then they have him that I call am.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

What's that?

[Trevor Noah]

Angry Mandel.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Oh, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

When he wasn't taking any nonsense.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

He wasn't taking any nonsense. And then they like ask him, they go like, so, Mr. Mandela, you know, you're gonna. You know, we've got enemies with Israel, and why won't you team up with. And he was like, the freedom of the Palestinian people. And he goes in and he's like, I will never support their freedom. And they're like, but you're our ally. And he's like, just because your enemies are not my enemies. Yeah, your enemies. I believe in the free. And he goes in hard, and you can see they're like, ah, my man.

[Hasan Piker]

It was also about Che Guevara, too, because they were like. They were hitting him on Fidel Castro, Cuba. And it's like, yeah, I feel like you're oblivious to the amount of effort and manpower expended by the Cuban government at a time when, like, they didn't have too much. They had nothing. They had nothing. And they spent so much trying to liberate Africa. And, of course, there's gonna be some shared resentment against Western colonialism. And why would they betray. Why would he turn around and betray other people going through similar plights?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, but what I was saying about, just so we're on the same page, is I sometimes wonder if. I'm sure there's a term for this. We will answer our question based on the results as opposed to actually looking at what happened. Because we can't know, right? So with Kamala Harrison and Hillary Clinton, we'll say they lost because. But if Donald Trump had lost that first election, we would have gone. Hillary ran the Reich campaign, and of course Donald Trump was gonna lose. When Donald Trump lost in 2020, it seemed obvious. It's like, well, of course he was gonna lose. Look at all the dumb things he was saying. Drink, bleach, of course he's gonna lose. Then when he wins in the next election, he didn't really change anything, and then he wins in that one. And I honestly find myself. I just. I just have to find. I have to ask myself the question. I have to go, how many percentage points come from people in America who are just not willing to vote for a woman? Just like, how many people out there go, I don't think. Cause I would read this and I would see people saying, I just don't think a woman can run the country. I'm all for women, but I just don't know that a woman can be trusted to run the country. And men and women alike saying this, by the way, spread out over the country.

[Trevor Noah]

What do you think?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Even if it's 3 percentage points. No, what do you mean, what do I think? Can a woman run the country?

[Trevor Noah]

Can run the country anytime, any day.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Let me put it this way, Eugene. I'm even gonna go a step further, my friend. I'm even going to go a step further myself.

[Trevor Noah]

He's going a step further.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Let me. Let me say this, my man. In a world where we have lived through multiple world wars and famines and civil wars, and in that world, that's not the time to say, can women do this or not? Does that make sense 100%. If our plane was.

[Hasan Piker]

Men ruined it already.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I was saying, if our plane was flying with no turbulence, no crashes, no disasters at all, if our airline, as men was running flawlessly, then I'd be like, ah, ladies, on time. Ladies, take a back seat. This is not the time for you to be flying this thing. We got it. The fellas got it. But I'm just saying, the way the fellas have been handling things, the fellas

[Trevor Noah]

don't got it right now.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

How much are you paying for gas? That's the fellas. I don't see any women involved in those negotiations, invasions. I'm just saying. So. I'm not saying the women would be better. I'm not saying that.

[Trevor Noah]

You're not saying they'll be better.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I'm just saying that they'll be okay. We should not act like the thing that is happening now is the one.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, but sending out one lady to go against many fellas that are out there running countries.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

And starting wars and conflicts.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

You know who was one of the most. You know who was one of the most effective?

[Hasan Piker]

Margaret Thatcher.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Angela Merkel.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, God.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Angela Merkel was one of the most effective in that. Now, she's not perfect by any means, but I still have. I've yet to meet a perfect president.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I'm gonna put it out there.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. I. I am diametrically opposed to all of these conversations. I say no women. No, I'm kidding. I think we got him.

[Trevor Noah]

It's a wrap.

[Hasan Piker]

I go back to Barack Obama.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yes.

[Hasan Piker]

I think in the United States of America, hatred for women is definitely a real thing. We live in a patriarchal society, but we also live in a very anti black society. So when you're a young black man whose middle name is Hussein and you're running, there's gonna be hurdles that you have to climb.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yes.

[Hasan Piker]

And you can overcome those hurdles. My problem with Kamala Harris was that she recognized, she understood that there were hurdles. She's a black woman running against a white supremacist like Donald Trump. But she didn't have the campaign and the platform that would actually convince people that this was someone to vote for.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I completely agree with you there.

[Hasan Piker]

So I don't discount the notion that people who are not old white guys are gonna have a harder go at it. That's certainly true. But I think they can overcome that with good policies. And if you want, you can have an old white guy as well. Bernie Sanders, he had the good policies.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

People loved him.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I think in every poll, and I stand to be corrected, cuz there are many polls, I know this, but in most polls where he was up against Trump, he won.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, yeah. And Trump knew that too.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Really?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Every time they asked people, Bernie versus Trump, Bernie would win.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. Now people will say, oh, well, Hillary Clinton would have won in those polls too, which is true. But I think what the people were looking for at that point and are still looking for really was an anti establishment candidate. Someone. Because they came at it with the recognition that the system wasn't working for them. Right. In all of the different parts of the country that are forgotten, whether it's West Virginia or Gary, Indiana.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

There are a lot of people who are suffering. And it felt like neither the establishment Republicans nor the establishment Democrats were actually focusing on their economic hardships. They only offered sometimes lip service to it, but never any, like, bold, radical changes. So when Trump comes in like a wrecking ball and ritualistically humiliates the establishment Republicans and is seen as like a heterodox Republican who, ironically enough in 2016 was actually running as a moderate, a lot of people forget this. He was pro Trans in 2016.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

He was anti war.

[Hasan Piker]

He was anti war.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Even when he said about guns, he was like, there's too many of them, to be honest.

[Trevor Noah]

He didn't say it like that.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Okay. The way he said, he was like, and I mean, my sons love them. They love the guns. They've got to be honest, I'm a little uncomfortable, A little uncomfortable with how many they have. But I mean, what are you gonna do? I mean, we leave it up to the states, but if I, if I had my way, we'd have a few fewer of them. But I mean, we'll see. We'll see.

[Trevor Noah]

That's how he said it.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Clip that one.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. He knows. He knows how to do it really well because they talk, you know, they're always talking, they're always conversing.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man. But you see, when. Whenever I listen to how Trevor views American politics and I obviously watch some of your content And I hear you speaking from an outsider's point of view. I think to myself, you're like, why

[Hasan Piker]

is Trevor not more like Hasan?

[Trevor Noah]

Exactly. That's what I think. I'm like, when we look outside, whenever we hear America doing something to another country, it's because apparently that country's leader does not respect democracy.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So when I look at your guys ndabas, which is news, I go, surely you guys voted for this situation. And you spend eight hours a day, every day talking about this kind of stuff. You are arguably in the coal phase of what people really want. And you get to hear unfiltered what people want. So from an outsider, isn't that what America voted for? And for you being in there, what do people want now?

[Hasan Piker]

I think most people don't really know what they want. And there is a very sophisticated influence peddling operation that is actively subverting democracy. So it's not a secret that Americans are not the most educated. They don't have a lot of political education. They don't have a profound understanding of history. And I think that's by design as well. I mean, our institutions are crippled. Public education, public schooling in general. And I think that's deliberate, especially since the Reagan era. But outside of that, most people are just kind of operating off of vibes. Most people are not voting. The plurality is usually not voting. Right. But out of the people that are voting, and there's a multitude of factors for that. There's the electoral college and the fact that you vote not on a federal holiday, but on a work day on a Tuesday. These are hurdles, specific hurdles designed to stop certain people from voting. And so most people need a buy in. They need something to motivate them to go out and vote. And if the Democratic Party's modus operandi is to say, look, the other side is so much worse than us, come on, just vote for us. Who are you gonna vote for? Nobody. Come on. And then most people go, all right, bet I'll vote for nobody. Neither party is representing my interests, and I don't really care. It doesn't really matter. I have to go back to work every morning. I have to focus on my life. I have to go deliver Uber. Why do I care about whether it's a Democrat or a Republican ruining my life? But most people rate the party as the National Democratic Party and the National Republican Party. And they look at the output and they grade the national Democratic Party off of its weakest individuals, off of its weakest members. There's a concept Called the rotating villain within the Democratic Party's infrastructure, where there's always a vote that will spoil a radical agenda that a Democrat runs on. This happened with Joe Biden. It was Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema that undermined Build Back better the IRA and watered it down tremendously.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Is this a formal thing you're saying or are you saying it just. You notice it's.

[Hasan Piker]

That's what we call it in, I guess, poli sci and that's what people call it.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So it's what we call it. One person within the Democratic Party.

[Hasan Piker]

Not one usually. There's always depending if there's six people.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Okay. But they are the rotating. So they go like, okay, you guys are gonna be the villains for this run. You're gonna vote against everything that is progressive that the people want. But then we all get to say we voted for it. And then you guys get. You'll be the bad guys for this run. And just make sure it doesn't happen like outbound.

[Hasan Piker]

Outbound congresspersons that are not running for reelection, that are retiring. Like Jared golden is one of those guys right now. And he was the lone voice that voted against the war powers Resolution.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Huh.

[Hasan Piker]

And there's always a guy. Joe Lieberman, under the Barack Obama coalition was the sole vote that stopped the public option from being advanced, which would have been radical change in this country.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Is this happening on the Republican side as well as much?

[Hasan Piker]

No. The Republicans are. The Republicans, I think, are much better at whipping votes because they're not necessarily because they're more organized, but because they can be open about being pro corporation. Like that's their whole thing. Whereas the Democrats, on the other hand, run against corporations. But when they're publicly, but when they're legislating, they still have to be very cognizant of the corporate investors, the real benefactors. The corporate benefactors. And any Democratic Party initiative that they advance will actually harm one sector's investment or one sector's interest in profit. So they can't really do that.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So do you think if they were

[Hasan Piker]

to advance Medicare for all. Let's take that for one policy that is unbelievably popular. Every other OECD nation has one form of socialized healthcare except for us. There's reporting on this, I believe it's up to 48,000 people every year that die because they don't have access to health care in the wealthiest nation on the planet. Like, they. They could just go to the. They could go to their primary care physicians and like, figure out what's wrong with them ahead of time or you know, get the necessary help. Yeah, I mean, it's a Yale study. I think the numbers might even be higher than that. I find it unbelievable as well. It's just ridiculous number. Right. So people want this. Why don't the Democrats advocate for it? Why do the Democrats actually actively push back against it as Joe Biden did in the 2020 primaries? In the 2019 primaries when Bernie was the Medicare for All candidate, Joe Biden came out, he's like, oh, I want the public option, Jack. Never talked about it again, by the way.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

That's a great Joe Biden, Jack at the end.

[Hasan Piker]

That was a great Joe Biden.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, that was actually good.

[Hasan Piker]

So that. Yeah, yeah, it's because me and him talk on the phone.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Oh, nice, nice.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. But, but he, he ran in opposition to Medicare for all and he didn't have any investment in actually pushing for the public option at all. He never talked about it. Once he actually became the candidate, he stopped talking about the public option altogether. He never brought it up. He never pushed for it. That was designed specifically to tackle Medicare for all in its popularity. And the reason why the Democrats do this is because Aetna, Blue Cross, Blue Shield and all of these for profit healthcare providers are massive investors in the Democratic Party. They fundraise for all these candidates. So of course they don't care about the population like the politicians that win their raises. They don't care about fixing this massive crisis in this country. They care about managing the crisis and they care about doing PR for the crisis and they care about winning reelection and maintaining the current system no matter how cruel it is. And that's just how it works. So that's also part of the reason why I go back to how frustrated a lot of these think tanks are about me and have been wr writing extensively about the dangers that I present for the Democratic Party. Because now I've moved on from just talking about how shit the Democrats are to actually working with other on the ground groups and organizations like the Democratic Socialists of America and numerous other orgs to actually run candidates that are pro Medicare for all, that are uncompromising on the issue of Israel, where they're like, I'm an anti Zionist. Why are we giving unlimited bombs to this country that's doing war crimes, that's doing a genocide? And that's a very frustrating reality for the Democrats because the more Zoram Mamdanis that they see all around the country pop up and the more grassroots momentum that these people have the more people are gonna look at that and go, wait a minute. You said Zoram was gonna be incompetent. You said he was gonna be a scary commie.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yep. And yet the budget is balanced.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, the budget's balanced. He's one of the best mayors that New York has had. It's just every time I come here, it feels like I'm entering an alternative universe where things are working somehow. It's ridiculous. We're watching from afar, a totally different reality in New York City, totally different vibes. Why can't we have that? And once people start asking that question, once people start believing that the government can help and the government should help. Yes. Once they have more confidence in good governance and once they associate that confidence with democratic socialism, socialism, communism, all of a sudden people are gonna want that. And we've seen that in the polls as well. We've seen that in the membership with the DSA, which crossed the threshold of 100,000 paid members. It's a very significant number. And we've certainly seen that with the approval ratings for democratic socialism in general, where I believe it's like in certain polls, it's like either the plurality or the majority of Democrats say they have sympathies for democratic socialism or even self identify around like 44% self identify as Democratic socialists within the Democratic Party.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So when you look at the young people in those worlds, then specific, because I'm assuming your audience skews young just because of streaming. This is an assumption that I have, like on that platform specifically.

[Hasan Piker]

Definitely.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Because I know on YouTube you've got a different viewership. You know, you're on Instagram, et cetera, et cetera. But. But what do you think the Democratic establishment is missing about how young people are viewing all of this right now? Because you're speaking to young people and young people are watching you in a very specific way. What are they missing? What are they missing that the Republicans don't seem to be missing? I should say. Cause on the Republican side, it seems like they've got their young men on lock.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, well, they have a different crisis or a similar crisis on the Republican side as well for youth vote and youth turnout.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Oh, no, sure, sure.

[Hasan Piker]

And it's actually Israel, because that has

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

become the lightning rod.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. I believe it's 54% of Republicans under the age of 55 have a negative opinion of Israel. That is a crisis for the state. That is a crisis for the Republican Party that wants to maintain unlimited loyalty to Israel. And that's certainly a crisis For Israel in general, that cannot exist, especially in the violent ways that it currently does in the maintenance of an apartheid, in constant territorial expansion without unlimited support from the United States of America and the rest of the Western world and. And without the political cover that America offers as the hegemon. So that's a huge problem. If they lose the Republicans, it's over. Okay? Israel's done.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

That's going to be clipped. What you mean is the way it's currently worse than the currently existing, you know, clips, Bro, this guy's clipping.

[Trevor Noah]

Clip that one.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Clip him saying, don't clip, Clip, clip, clip, clip him, saying, clip, clip yourself. Clipping, clip him, clip him.

[Hasan Piker]

I have said way worse things about Israel than that, trust me. And it drives people crazy. It drives, like, the pro Israel advocacy groups crazy, where they're like, why won't people. Why won't people see that he's a dangerous, radical terrorist? Like, I go to the Vanity Fair Oscars party, and they're like, why is he allowed to be there? He shouldn't be allowed in mainstream circles. Like, it's like Jonathan Greenblatt. Greenblatt and his bald head being like, it should have been me at the Vanity Fair party. Yeah, it's so funny. Oh, man. Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Okay, so you think on the. Okay, so on the right, that's the lightning rod.

[Hasan Piker]

That's the lightning rod for sure.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

On the left, what is shifting? Why are we seeing a zoron? Why are we seeing election results like we're seeing? Cause, I mean, there's a few that we're seeing now where it looks like there's a shift that's happening. Do you think it's a. Do you think it's a ripple, or do you think it's gonna be a wave?

[Hasan Piker]

I think it's gonna be a wave. I mean, they're trying to stop it for sure. They are doing everything they can to stop this momentum, to stop this insurgent campaigning that's taking place all around the country right now.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

How do you think the messaging has. Or what do you think's going right in the messaging? Because a few years ago when you said the word socialist in any way, the first thing most Americans would say is, those are the people who come and take your money. You can't own anything. You can't work towards anything. There's no point in having a job. You can't build wealth. You can't blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That used to be almost across the board what people would say right now, to your point, whether it's polling whether it's online conversations. It seems like people are shifting. But there's two interesting sides to it. There's one where people are going to. That's not what socialism is, or democratic socialism. And then there's another side going, let them take all the money and let them, you know, where they're going. I still think it's that, but I'm actually happy. I want them to take everything away, and they want them to. So, like, what do you think is resonating about that message specifically?

[Hasan Piker]

I think it's the contradictions. They're worsening and they're becoming more apparent, and people are cognizant of the reality that they experience pain, and they understandably blame the system for it. So they go, this is not working for me. I need an alternative. And this alternative seems fine. I mean, I'm willing to try this out. Even in a country as propagandized at the heart of empire, the country that won the Cold War, the country that is the defender of the ultimate defender of capitalism, has destroyed the living standards of its own citizens to such a degree that they go, you know, I don't believe the red scare propaganda, actually. Or even if I do believe it, I like it. Like you said. Yeah, that's because people are suffering and they want an alternative. And in some ways, that's what Donald Trump did in both 2016 and then when those wounds were not healed or addressed after four years of Biden. And the only thing people remember from the Biden administration was negative real wage growth for one and a half years as a lot of these economists. And they're still doing this, by the way, kept saying, well, this is a vibe session, actually, things are great on the economy front. What are you guys complaining about? I mean, I have.

[Trevor Noah]

Where do you get these terms, vibe session? You're making us sound old.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, that's what they said.

[Hasan Piker]

That's what they said. Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Because what they said was. It's really interesting how they phrase this. Right. What they try and do is especially the people who run, like, media in the biggest way, what they do is they'll try and tell you as people on the ground that what you're experiencing is not real.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

These are your feelings. The economy is doing better than ever.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You have no idea what we're doing in the background. Yeah, but working towards.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, but they even go like, your life is better. Even though you don't think your life is better, your life is better. Yeah, but what's really sinister, it's Exactly. It's gaslighting and it's sinister. You know why? Because they talk about the economy like everyone is an equal participant in it. That's one of the smartest things they do, is they talk about the economy. Look at the gdp, look at the economy.

[Hasan Piker]

Look at the stock market.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

It has never been better. But it's like, guys, if Jeff Bezos gets into a bus with all of us, the GDP of that bus has gone up dramatically. Like, the value of that bus has gone up. But, you know, we do not have that money.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

You can say this bus is doing well, and that is technically true. But if one person gets off that bus, the bus is broke now.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And the ones that are in the bus are benefiting.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But now. No, they're not. They're not even benefiting. Not even. That's. No, because the people. The people in the. In the country are in the bus, right? And they're going, you're doing well. Look how much money's in this bus. And people are like, yeah, but it costs me 30% more to go and buy ground beef before I go do a barbecue. It's costing me like 20, 30% more for my gas. It's costing me 20, 30% more. My wages are not keeping up.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

My cost of living is going up.

[Trevor Noah]

But apparently.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But apparently, the country is good. Time kick. It's like, no, the country. Yes, the bus is technically doing well.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Because of a few passengers who are doing well.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But the passengers are not actually doing well. And so that, to your point, it becomes like this. This gaslighting feeling where they go, no, no, no. They kind of. It's. They go like, no, no, no. It's a vibe session, you guys.

[Trevor Noah]

I love that word.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

It's not a recession. The numbers are not bad. Your vibes are bad. You need to change yourself.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. And that was obviously. Yeah, that was incredibly frustrating for people to see.

[Trevor Noah]

That's crazy.

[Hasan Piker]

It's one of the things I brought up in the lead up to the 2024 election over and over again, where it was like, well, the economy is rebounding. Which is true. It was. Right. But what I kept repeatedly explaining to people, or trying to was, well, in 2016, Trump won, and the economy was seemingly positive trajectory than it was in 2024. And clearly people were suffering enough back then that they thought, I'm gonna vote for this crazy guy. Right. And they don't read it as that. They think, oh, it's gotta be all these different reasons. And sometimes those different reasons are true. You know, white supremacy is powerful force, obviously. Misogyny is a powerful force. But. But at the end of the day, those hurdles are climbable. Those hurdles can be destroyed if you have a candidate that can communicate honestly and come across as earnest in defense of the people over the interests of corporations.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing I've noticed, and I think people are noticing en masse whether you are for or against the Republican Party. I mean, now really, it's the Donald Trump Party. Cause it's not what it was as a machine before. It is the Donald Trump Party.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

It does what it says in many ways. Now. There's many things where it doesn't, but it, like, so, you know, they go like, oh, but he didn't build a wall. It's like, yeah, but he sort of did. He didn't build the physical wall, but he built a wall. If you're honest. If you look at, like, the visas, the bans, how few people actually can come into America now, how few people can get jobs, deportation. He built the wall. You know, you go like, oh, no, I'm gonna shut this down. He did trade wars, et cetera, et cetera. He's sort of doing the thing. Whether it's good for the country or not is a separate conversation. Because, I mean, you look at your bank balance and ask yourself, right. Not you. But then. And on the other side, it feels like the Democrats. Donald Trump comes in and opens up a toolbox of government, and then the Democrats come in and they go, ah, we don't really have any tools. And it's like, that guy's got hammers, he's got screwdrivers, he's got. He can build or dismantle anything. And then every time the Democrats get power, they go, yeah, let's just keep it the way it is, and let's be grateful that it still exists.

[Hasan Piker]

Or, let's balance the budget. Oh, yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

It's always.

[Hasan Piker]

It's stuff.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

It's never something radical. It's never something that's gonna radically change people's lives.

[Hasan Piker]

Exactly. And even when they do actually make necessary changes, like, the ACA was a profound achievement altogether. It wasn't bold enough, it wasn't brave enough. The public option should have been passed as well. But even then, in the process of passing the Affordable Care Act, Republicans never were going to caucus with the Democrats on this issue. And they attacked it over and over again. And they took advantage of the gridlock that they were creating, where the Democrats could have just advanced it. They couldn't they had the numbers, they could have just. They had the numbers, they could have advanced. They could have been like, fuck off. Right. But they allowed this gridlock to take place where Republicans used that time on the clock, where they were running out the clock, which gridlock is something that most Americans hate. Donald Trump doesn't ever do that.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

He does.

[Hasan Piker]

That's what I mean. No, we're doing this, and I'm gonna do an executive order if necessary.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And then you're gonna have to work backwards.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. So obviously there was a reluctance to break things with this rapid successive attacks against the Republicans. They didn't do that. But in that process, the Republicans had an opportunity to lie about what the ACA was. They said it was death panels.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Death panels.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. They said, obviously one of the most radical propositions in the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, was the provision that insurance companies, private healthcare providers, would no longer be able to deny coverage to people for preexisting conditions. Now, that is such an inhumane concept, and it's so insane because we live in the post Obamacare world where healthcare companies can't do that, that people don't believe that that was the norm. And people don't believe that Republicans, some of which are still in office, were actively advocating against that. Yeah, it's such an inhumane thing. It's a normal part of Republican policy making that most Republicans. There's a poll on this. Republican voters don't believe the actual impact of the Republican legislative agenda when they're asked about it, where they'll go, okay, you wanna vote for Republicans? Republicans are against abortion. Abortion is murder. They're like, yeah, yes, I'm against abortion. Abortion is murder. So when they actually are faced with the impact, and we saw this happen in the lead up to the 2024 election, when they recognize, oh, my God, if we ban abortions, then my daughter might not be able to get an emergency abortion to take care of an ectopic pregnancy. This is now a real crisis, a real healthcare crisis. They changed their tune real quick. So they don't even believe how violent their legislative agenda is that they're pushing that they're advancing the Republican voters, and that is a real problem. The other problem is it's much easier to break things, especially if you are directionally on the side of capital. If you're a capitalist, if you're openly on the side of corporations, as Republicans are, it's much easier to move in that direction. Democrats, on the other hand, have a base that is, in some ways, maybe not a card Carrying communist or whatever, but like anti capitalist in certain instances, like they are against profit seeking from corporations. If you want regulations, like environmental regulations to protect certain natural resources, like the water supply, all of a sudden you're harming the profits of dupont. Right. Dupont just wants to dump chemicals and, you know, whatever they want off of their factories directly into the water supply and dilute the water supply with toxic pollutants. That's very profitable for them to do. So now the Democrats all of a sudden have to punish dupont. Republicans never have to do that. Republicans are never gonna punish dupont. They say, no, it's great. They say.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

They say it'll figure itself out.

[Hasan Piker]

Most of the time, it'll figure itself out. Or they do this thing where they're like transgender people and then they walk the other direction. Right. Like they'll be like, oh, dupont Chemical. Okay. Have you thought about trans people existing? Isn't that weird and fucked up? And then everyone's like, yeah, actually, that's right. Transgender people do exist. And I fucking hate that. You could.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

The smartest thing you can do to distract people from a real issue is to bring up an issue that doesn't actually affect their real lives, their daily lives, but is easier to grasp and. And dispute or argue.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, because it's just.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

It's just, what is the chem. How much should a company be able to dispose or where should they dispose or how should they. What are the classes of different chemicals? And how far is a river from a residential place? And what is toxicity? How do we measure toxicity?

[Trevor Noah]

Has anyone died from it?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, when do we measure the death? Or is it related? Is it a cause? All of these things are difficult. You know what's easy going? Is this person a man or a woman? And should they be in my bathroom? That's like an easy thing. But it feels like. And this is actually why I want to get back to it from like, your side, the political side, you know, for lack of a better term. It feels like it's metastasized in America, but the world you're in feels like it's fledgling. It feels like something's changing. It feels like something's growing. Like I wanna tap into that world and understand a little bit more about it. Like why streaming. You could have done anything else online, but why streaming in particular?

[Hasan Piker]

Well, when I started streaming, I feel like it was different overall. We didn't have the claviculars of the world. Right. I mean, there were different versions of that even before my time, but they were nowhere near as popular. It hadn't reached, like, mass popularity. I think it was Ninja that, like, did the Drake collab of Fortnite. And that's when people were like, whoa, what is this? What is the sector? What is going on here? And people started paying attention to it. But at that point, most people were just playing video games. I came in and I was like, I'm not gonna play video games. I'm not very good at video games. I mean, I. I did play video games initially, but I was like, I wanna do political commentary while I play video games and then stop playing video games altogether and just do political commentary. So that was my evolution and the reason why I did that.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

What games were you playing when you started Fortnite? Oh, okay.

[Hasan Piker]

And then, you know, horror games that people love.

[Trevor Noah]

I was playing Hunger Games.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I didn't know what you were like, no. Okay, so for. So you were. Were you a gamer?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, and I still play video games when I have time sometimes.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Don't know. When do you have time? We watch you on eight hours a day.

[Hasan Piker]

No, no, I play on. I play on stream or something.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Okay, so you still play on stream?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, I still, every now and then play games on stream, but nowhere near to the same degree I used to, because at the time I was at the Young Turks, I wanted a place, a community of my own. I didn't want to just, like, work for someone. I was like, I should have something on the side for myself, like something more creative. And I also wanted to practice off the cuff speech because everything that I had done prior to that was all pre scripted. I would write my own scripts, I would turn them into articles for Huffington Post. I was doing that and I was getting better at it, but I was really bad at off the cuff commentary. And I guess, you know, it's been eight years now. It probably worked is I never seemed to shut the fuck up.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Weren't you worried about, like, making mistakes? Weren't you worried? Or do you embrace that in the. You know, because it's live, it's happening in the moment.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, no, it was definitely harrowing at first. It was definitely terrifying.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Like pulling up a stat, for instance. You know, if you're wrong, you go 40% of. And it's like, ah, it was actually 20% and it's not that. And it was actually people under the age of 50, not people under the age of 15 and people. You know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

Mm.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, that happens from time to time. But it's okay. I mean, I'm a human being. And when that does happen. I correct it. Usually chat is also very on it. Or they'll be like, oh, you got the stat wrong. So there is definitely that, but I have completely dropped that fear. You can't have that fear if you're gonna be a live broadcaster, a twitch streamer.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And when you're doing this, how do you strike the balance between inflaming tensions and inspiring and mobilizing people?

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, you gotta do a bit of both. I think that's a real problem with the Democratic Party is that they don't identify enemies. They try to get along with everybody else in their commentary. And I think it's good to just say, like, no, billionaires are bad. Sometimes they could be, eh, all right, like, Steyer is probably one of the better candidates in the California governor's race. But. But Democrats are too afraid to identify who is actually creating problems in society that many workers can feel.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So then do you think things are as bad as they are in America because the Republicans govern the way they govern, or do you think it's gotten that way because Democrats are so feckless that Republicans can govern?

[Hasan Piker]

I don't even think it's the duopoly. I think the duopoly is a normal part of the process. Look, I'm a socialist. I think it's capitalism. I think that is the root.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Do you think that's the fundamental issue?

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, 100%. I think that, like, at its root, we have two liberal parties. One is actually now turning into an illiberal party. One is turning into a fascist party as fascism rose 100 years ago when liberalism was failing. Right. Liberalism is in crisis. Liberal capitalist democracy is not working for a lot of people. And they're looking for alternatives. And reactionaries are taking advantage of that crisis by reasserting dominance and control in the same exact way that Adolf Hitler did, same exact way that Mussolini did when fascism was first being implemented in Europe as this revolutionary movement that would counter the nefarious forces of socialism, communism and trade unionism, because that, if left to their own devices, if they were successful, would truly disrupt the hierarchy of capital. And that's why these movements, these fascist movements were able to go to small businesses, petit bourgeois, and also big businesses, and these industrialist capitalists and gain a lot of allegiances from these groups. And they were able to get liberals to concede as well. And that's how they reasserted dominance.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So I hear what you're saying, but I think some people might hear that and go, so are you saying that we then go to Communism. And I don't think that's what you're saying, if I hear you correctly.

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, look, I say I'm not a communist, but people call me that. And I don't have any problems with communism. I think it's a decent endpoint, you know, classless, moneyless, borderless society, Star Trek universe. Whenever I say that people go how could he even mention this? But I feel like if you think about it, I don't think that's a

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

bad way to live if it, if it was implemented. So this is where I struggle with it is I go, we oftentimes will judge a system based on the examples that we have of it, even if those examples are not accurate. Does that make sense?

[Hasan Piker]

So when, so there's been many attempts and a lot of that has led to failure for a multitude of different reasons.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

There's misunderstanding, sabotage being one of the biggest. Sometimes we always have to acknowledge that interference because when people will talk about capitalism they will always espouse its like a. Students. Oh, but look at this and look at this. And that is correct. But when people will talk about socialism, you know, communism may be more, is, is a harder one because I, I have yet to see an example of communism that wasn't interfered with or sabotaged. So I don't, I don't know personally well.

[Hasan Piker]

But even in spite of that sabotage, there is one successful example of, or a couple successful examples of countries that are run by communist party parties. Yeah, it's obviously not at its end stage or anything like that, but China is, is run by a communist party. Vietnam, Cuba also run by a communist party. Now obviously there's varying degrees of successes here and varying degrees of failure. Successes in comparison to like their starting point. Right. Or at their, in their heyday. Right. Like the Cuban, the Cuban revolution was unbelievably successful. And that's precisely the reason why the American government sought to punish them endlessly. And they were only able to survive throughout that process because the USSR came in and was like, we're gonna put our nukes here.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Did you get a subpoena about Cuba?

[Hasan Piker]

I have not received it yet. I only heard about a subpoena being delivered to me from Fox News.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But wait, what?

[Hasan Piker]

But I haven't gotten it.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, you can't be serious. So you haven't received anything? No, but all the news is saying that you have received something.

[Hasan Piker]

It goes beyond that. They are claiming that I'm a subversive. I am a foreign agent that hasn't registered with Farah and It's really funny because I'm pretty open about my ideology. I'm a socialist and I think we should not kill the Cuban population. We've been starving them for 60 years. I think it's unbelievable. It's heinous as a war crime and we should stop that. And then they go, oh, he must be getting paid by the Cuban government to say this. And it's really funny because it's like, with what money? They're broke. They have no money.

[Trevor Noah]

Cigars.

[Hasan Piker]

Like they don't have anything. I mean, I guess they have cigars. I don't know. I didn't even get to experience that when I was there. But how long were you there for? I was there for two days and I just. You back to back interviews. We were there on a humanitarian aid mission with Progressive International, Co Pink, and you know, with like 600 delegates, politicians, Corbyn was there, numerous other people and journalists as well. And I got a journalism visa on top of the humanitarian aid mission that we were accomplishing. So it's doubly messed up that the admin is coming after me.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah. Because you see the story even now, the way you told it, the story doesn't. It makes it seem like you and one other person went to Cuba because you were paid by an organization there. The two of you. Only two people.

[Hasan Piker]

Madea Benjamin, the founder of Coping.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, it's just the two of you. You went there and then you conspired with a state sponsored mission. And they were like, hey, man, here's some money, Hasan, we need you to do this to America. And then you were like, all right, I'm heading back now.

[Hasan Piker]

Remember when earlier we were talking about how they were like, oh, have you ever communicated with like a member of Hamas or anything like that? So Cuba's technically considered a state sponsor of terror, but of course I've communicated with members of the Cuban government. I interviewed them on camera. Carlos Cosio is literally the vice foreign minister and I interviewed him for my documentary. So it's not only not illegal, but it's been out there for months. So they're like, oh, but, but what if that's. What if we decided that that was illegal? You know, a lot of this conversation revolves around people's stupidity and people's lack of understanding of how things work. Where they'll describe. This is something I talk about with conservatives all the time. They describe something as though it's nefarious. They do this all the time. They rely on people's lack of understanding of complex subjects. Or even sometimes simple subjects or. One example I always use is transgender surgeries. They describe this process as, like, gruesome mutilation, where they're like, oh, the doctors come in with a hacksaw and, like, they cut off body parts and all this stuff, and it's like, yeah, that's just every type of surgery you're just describing. Like, can you imagine if you were like, well, open heart surgery. They come in with a hammer and a pick, and they just, like, open up your chest.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Oh, and they have, like, a.

[Trevor Noah]

A.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

What are they, Jaws of life? They, like, rip your cage apart, they split you in two, and yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, they cut you up. Imagine if you were like, I hate open heart surgery because it scares me. It's like, no one should be able to get an open heart surgery. It scares me. But that's how Republicans operate on a lot of issues. And that's kind of what they're doing right now with the story. Not only did this subpoena not even arrive, let's say it's happening, right? And I've described it on. In great detail to my audience. I've talked about my experiences in Cuba. I did a documentary on it. All this stuff, right? They'll take pieces of my commentary and be like, he's leaking all the secrets. He's leaking the. The. The pay structure that exists. And it's like, no, that's not. Everything that I'm mentioning is, like, publicly available information that you can find on Wikipedia. But because people are so stupid and. And they're so ready to. To think that this is some sort of, like, sinister operation, they go, oh, my God, he's already turned state witness. He's, like, snitching. Oh, he's so stupid for snitching before he even talks to his lawyers. What an idiot. And it's like. Or maybe nothing that I'm saying is illegal. Have you thought about that?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But I think we live in a world now where the accusation is more powerful than the prosecution.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Prosecutions don't matter anymore, if you think about it in the world we live in. Cause the. The swell of what happens in media and online is so big. It used to be the same with a newspaper front page. This person has done this many months later, retraction. Actually, they didn't. Or a small little article in the corner. Now, in that world, it was bad enough because it was front page versus page four. Slight retraction or just an update on the story. Now it's the whole Internet. Yeah, It's TikTok, it's Instagram, it's Facebook, it's, you know, Google search results, web pages, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[Hasan Piker]

And with AI.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Massive. Massive. And it just gets like, yeah, it just gets amplified and blown up and amplified and blown up. By the time it's verified, it's finished. Really.

[Hasan Piker]

And there's also a lot of like, biases that people have where they constantly are seeking out confirmation bias.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

And, and they, they want to confirm their priors no matter what. So like, I'll give you one example. One of the most common things that I receive from people is. Criticisms that I receive from people is like, oh, you're a socialist, but you're wealthy. Right? And it's true, I am very successful. I'm very fortunate. Right? But it's not at odds with my worldview in any way, shape or form. It's at odds with how you perceive my worldview. Right. I mean, it was Deng Xiaoping who said, socialism isn't a. Is it about poverty? To be rich is to be glorious. It's misattributed to him, but he never corrected the record. He said something similar to that. But at the end of the day, like, I want everyone to have autonomy. I want everyone to be able to live comfortable lives. Like that's what I'm advancing. That's what I'm advocating for. That's my perfect society. It's not about everyone being like equally poor or starving. You made that up. I never said that that's what I wanted. Who would want that? Right? And yet because of this pre established notion that socialism is supposed to be a poverty culture, they constantly advance this narrative and in order to make this narrative stick, they'll be like, oh, he's a nepotism recipient. Which is true. I, I am a nepotism recipient. I worked for my uncle's YouTube show. Not exactly CNN, right? It was a 26 person YouTube channel.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Burn uncle.

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, but it's true. It's a 26. I was a 26th employee on a

[Trevor Noah]

uncle's like, come on, come on.

[Hasan Piker]

But it was a. I was a 26th employee on a YouTube show, right? Called the Young Turf Works. It definitely helped and I always will recognize that. But then they'll expand on it and they'll be like, well, his father is really wealthy. It's not true. I take care of my parents and I'm very fortunate to be able to do that. It's my duty and I love that and I love them. But because there's no evidence of this. The idea that like my father is this like multi billionaire, which they claim they've just generated evidence through AI articles. So now when you look at the SEO, if you're stupid enough not to check or cross reference this stuff, there's articles out there from like Hindustan Times, that's like Hasan Piker's father is a billionaire.

[Trevor Noah]

That's a credible source. And it's really funny on the Hindustan's time.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I've read everything on the Hindustan.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. But it's really interesting because it's like if, if my father was a billionaire, he would be the third wealthiest person in Turkey. Like that would be on a list. Like you would know about it. It would be publicly available information. It's so ridiculous. But yet they still advance it because they're so desperate to confirm their priors and to justify their worldview. Because they never want to think about

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

the message, don't press anything, we've got more. What now? After this? Therapy is one of those things lots of people talk themselves out of without even realizing it. Like it's too expensive or it's too overwhelming figuring out even where you're going to start. But Rula is one way to make that first step feel a lot more doable. Offering accessible, affordable therapy that fits your needs. Sign up in just a few minutes and get matched with a therapist who fits what you're looking for. Need to talk to someone quickly? Appointments are often available as soon as the next day, and with insurance, sessions average around a $15 copay. You can also see estimated costs upfront, so there's a lot more clarity going in. And in terms of outcomes, 93% of ruler patients report symptom improvement. If therapy's been sitting in the back of your mind, Rula is a pretty simple way to take that first step. So turn off the talk track that's keeping you from progress and head to rula.com that's r u l a.com to find a therapist the easy way. Getting enough protein in the morning isn't easy. You want something that fits your routine and tastes good. That's where Silk Protein comes in. It's a new plant based protein milk with 13 grams of complete plant protein plus 3 grams of fiber and 50% less sugar than dairy milk. Pour a glass, blend it into a smoothie or add it to your coffee for the road. Silk Protein helps provide the nutrients you want more of with a great taste. Shop now for Silk Protein at a store near you. Here's the thing about bad cholesterol, it can silently build up in your arteries over time. High bad cholesterol may increase your risk

[Hasan Piker]

of heart attack or stroke.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Is your bad cholesterol low enough? Talk to your doctor about setting a goal to help lower your bad cholesterol and reduce your risk of heart attack or stroke. There's more to know about bad cholesterol. Learn more about the [e-mail] brought to you by Merck. Did you read the interview? I think it was in the New Yorker. The CEO of Flutify. So if you haven't.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, I know what you're talking about.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah. The CEO of Flutify gave a really amazing interview about what he does. Right. And Flutify is basically a clipping service online where they will make anything seem more popular than it is. Yeah, right. But the way they do it is not using traditional advertising. So you have an album that you want to release, but you're an artist who only has like 50,000 fans. You go to a company like Fluttery, they're one of the companies that do this. You pay them a certain amount of money and that money will determine like how much reach you're going to get. And then they have a network, and I mean like an insane network that blows it up across quote, unquote, real people having real opinions about your music. And you can seem bigger than you are as an artist which then sort of catches its own fire. Cause that's, that's how fame works and that's how news works and that's how. And, and you, you now on that level, you clavicular.

[Hasan Piker]

This is, this is how clavicular became famous.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah. So you think now you think, oh, I mean, who cares? Music, you wanna. This is where it gets sinister. Right? And we really have to worry about this in society.

[Hasan Piker]

It is for politics too.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

For everything.

[Trevor Noah]

No way.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

A South African influencer put this up recently on their, on their page. She has a full time job, but she also does like makeup and you know, clothing, but just like really for fun. And then she put out this thing just telling her fans. She's like, hey, I don't know if this has happened to anyone else, but this is a weird thing that I'm experiencing. Someone's been sending me emails like over like the last year, ish. Where they're offering me money just to talk shit about South Africa. They'll pay me upfront.

[Trevor Noah]

I never got that.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

They ask for nothing in return.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm doing this for free.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, they, they pay me up Front. They ask for nothing in return.

[Trevor Noah]

No way.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And, and they, they don't give you

[Trevor Noah]

a script, say, yeah, be organic, all

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

they want is for you. And when you put these pieces together, you look at the Flutterfy guy. I'm not saying he does that, but he did say, he did say in the article that Eric Adams team wanted to pay him. And he doesn't say whether they did or didn't do it, but he says what they wanted him to do was create a campaign of New Yorkers complaining about Mamdani and all the things that are going horribly and what could go, no, no, really. And he was like, we need a groundswell campaign. Eric Adams team wanted this. And when you realize that, you go, guys, we are on the precipice of something that I don't think society is ready for. Because it's one thing if we go like, oh, Hasan took money from Cuba, but it's a lie and et cetera, etc. It's a different thing if we think we're living in a world where the people around us are having an experience that they're not. We live in a world where we think our neighbors have pitchforks ready, but they don't. We live in a world where we go like, oh man, everyone around me is scared. There's crime in New York, but everyone

[Hasan Piker]

actually doesn't feel that is happening right now.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But that's what I mean. But I'm saying as that as that compounds it goes beyond just politics and business. It goes to like the erosion of society which then, as you know, because you've studied it, leads to the ultimate forms of fascism. Because if everyone is scared of everything and nobody trusts anyone, we then look to one strong man who will protect us all and create the calm that we need.

[Trevor Noah]

And voter apathy is a yeah, why would you vote?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Because it's all rigged anyway. So you don't want to vote, you don't want to participate, you don't want to do things,

[Hasan Piker]

and you want to punish people. You want to punish people that you've been taught are responsible for the pain that you're experiencing. And that's why I say it's important to also identify the systems of oppression rather than to let it dangle as though there is nothing wrong at all. Or even sometimes identify certain things that are wrong. But never talk about who's responsible for it, because that leaves an opportunity for the Republicans to go back and recenter that anger and refocus that frustration at vulnerable populations. Transgender people, immigrants, some of the people that have no defense in American society at all. Some of the people that are just contributing to the American working class in very meaningful ways in our productive output and not even getting anything in return for it. And yet we have designed society in a way where that's who's responsible for all of the angst, for all the suffering that you're going through. And it's certainly not the billionaires, is certainly not the mega corporations. And when both parties are designed in a way where they defend corporate interests, the amount of defense that you can, the amount of countering that you can do, the amount of counter messaging you can do against the right wing reactionary thought is gonna be very limited. And that's what I think is a big problem with the Democratic Party's platform in general, where they can't just say it's corporations of the wealthy that's making the system the way it is. Dumbass. What are you talking about? You think a random trans person is responsible for you not getting health care? Are you fucking stupid? You're gonna get health care. We're gonna give you health care. That's my advocacy. I'm like, we're gonna give you healthcare. You need healthcare. We're gonna build a house for you. You need a house. You're racist. Okay? You can't be racist any longer. We're not gonna deny you healthcare or a roof over your head because you're racist. But you gotta vote for the not racist party who will give you those things. Some people will look at that and go, no, I'm so racist. I don't want a roof over my head. But not many people are gonna make a roof. I don't think that'll happen.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I don't think that'll happen. We saw that with. I mean, not that we were there, but who was it? Chairman Fred Hampton, right? Black Panther Party, where he went, let's go to these white people who are racist. And they were like, fully racist. And he said, you're poor. We are poor. Ask yourself a question. If we are the n words that you call us and we're against you, why are we also poor? Shouldn't we have the money and why are you poor? So if we're poor and you're poor, somebody's tricking both of us. So he's like, I'm gonna work together. We're gonna get you food. We're gonna try and eat food as well, and then let's figure this thing out. And shortly after that, he was dead.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, they fucking murdered him in his sleep.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah. Because it is a. The upending of the. That thing. There's so much money in it, man.

[Hasan Piker]

And this is, again, a Marxist Leninist, by the way.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

This is where it's important to throw an addendum in, by the way. They make it seem like you're saying no one should earn money. No one should do well.

[Trevor Noah]

No one should prosper.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No one should prosper. You're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. What we're saying is in a system where money is like water, the water should flow. Right. And in the same way, countries that share major rivers have to have an agreement that the water cannot be stopped by one. Any. Like, any one country.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

They have to have agreements on that. You know that, right? Because one country who's at, like, the top of a river can just block the water. And then all the other countries, that's literally an act of war. They go, no, you can only block this much for your dams. And you can. And you can block this, and then the next country can block this. The same understanding should be had, in my opinion, of money, because we forget that we create systems now that sort of have crippled what money was supposed to do. It was an exchange of time and debt to trade. But if somebody can create, like a dam, a dam, and they've got robots that earn the money and then machines that make the money and then robots that. And the money keeps going here, and then they earn interest on the money, and then they get loans on the money, but then they don't pay taxes on that money, but then we pay the taxes on the money money, because all of us sitting everywhere here, we pay the taxes on it. Then you go, like, what are we? What are we building? What are we? You know what I mean? Like, where are we?

[Hasan Piker]

We're building wealth for the upper class, for the capital owning class in American society and in the West.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And people don't understand how small that number is.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, yeah, but that's what I want. I want systemic change. And I'm never. I've never been an advocate for adventurism. That's not a Marxist tradition at all. As a matter of fact, many theorists have regularly criticized adventurism, which many Americans don't even know what it is. But that's like. Luigi Mangione, is adventurism like a person decide, Allegedly. Thank you. You're right. A person that decided to take matters in their own hands. Right. The. The propaganda of the deed is what anarchists believe. I don't. I want to be organized, and I want to change society with diligent and disciplined organizing.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Last thing I'll ask you, because it's interesting that we've had two guests sitting at this table who've shared a different opinion on it. And I think I know which way you're gonna lean.

[Hasan Piker]

But who are the two guests?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, God.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I asked Bernie Sanders. So I asked Pete Buttigieg. I was talking about, like, government, and I guess him and I had a bit of a disagreement. I was saying, and I do believe this, I said, people have been made to believe that government is inept, but that ineptitude was manufactured so that it could be privatized. Right. And we've seen this in South Africa.

[Hasan Piker]

100% correct.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

We've seen this in the UK. We see this in many countries.

[Hasan Piker]

Wait, did he disagree with that?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, no. He was like, yeah, I guess to a certain degree. And then I was like, the government is supposed to do the thing. People forget. The reason we made a government, it's a brilliant idea, is because we could not all individually go work on the roads. So we said, hey, let's all put our money together. Let's pull together for the roads. Government is supposed to do things. And then he was like, ah, no, but I think there's many things that government is not that good at doing. Then I was like, name one thing.

[Hasan Piker]

What did he say?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

He said a few, and I disagreed. Honestly, I was like, I don't think the government's bad at that. I think the government can run a great airline. I think the government can run a great railway service. They do. I think the government can run a great healthcare service. I think the government can run great education. You know why I say this? Because it did at some point.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. And it still does.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

People forget that.

[Hasan Piker]

It still does in most other places. We just don't think about, you know,

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

how many people who fight against public education now were publicly educated.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

They're gonna say public education doesn't work. But the smarts that they're using to argue against us come from there, come from public education. They're the people who say, oh, no, the government. Yeah, but the house that your parents bought came from a fund that the government made possible for you. The school that you went to was made possible by the government. So this was my. I am vehemently opposed to that argument because I think it's a trick. I think the trick is you first make a government inept so that people believe it cannot do anything. Then you make that government Sell off its parts to private. You know, to private companies and billionaires.

[Hasan Piker]

You're describing neoliberalism that took shape in America under Ronald Reagan and also Margaret Thatcher.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And then when they have all of it, they then now decide how the thing works. They charge you as much as they want for electricity. And the tail wags, what are you going to do? Who. Who can live without electricity? The price has to go up. What are we supposed to do? The tail wags the dog. So that was. That, was. That was that side of it.

[Hasan Piker]

There's inelastic demand for health care. That's why exactly, it has to be run by the government in some way, shape or form. It has to be controlled by the government at the very least, if it's not entirely funded and facilitated by the government, like the nationalized health care system in the uk. And at which point, you see this in the UK right now, they try to cripple the funding to the NHS over and over again. They implement austerity, so it's worse off overall. And then people are silly enough to advocate for a privatized version of that. And that's what the Reform Party's doing right now. The Reform Party wants to implement austerity on nhs. They won't say it out loud and they wanna privatize it. But why do people vote for the Reform Party? They vote for the Reform Party because they think that immigrants are responsible for all of the issues that they're experiencing in the uk.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

But it's easy. You know why it's easy to do that, though? I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who experiences that. And I'll tell you why. I see this in South Africa, I've seen it in the uk, you know, places I've traveled to and places I've lived in.

[Hasan Piker]

You're like, immigrants are bad.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

No, people. You know what? No, no, no. People forget this, right? People forget that your ability to see or not see an immigrant changes dramatically with your standard of living and how things are going 100%.

[Hasan Piker]

Mm.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I think people really take that for granted. When you're doing well, when your economy's doing well, when things around you are doing well, you'll be shocked at how you don't notice immigrants. They're sort of silently existing in your world because things are going well, because you don't see them. You don't notice the guy at the corner shrugging, has an accent in that way. When you. You've got enough money and the prices are affordable and your. Your wages have kept up, you don't notice the. The. The immigrant in the hospital bed next to you when you're also getting care. You don't notice. You don't notice. But a system that is failing its people is inevitably gonna have its people notice the people who are not, quote, unquote, its people. Cause they're like, wait, what is. I don't understand. You're saying we don't even have enough for us, then why do we have enough for them? And I think of it genuinely through, like, the most personal lens. When we had food in my house, and my mom, like, my mom was always, always like, please go give. Give those street kids this food. Give that homeless guy this. Give that. She did that her whole life. She still does that, right? I remember in my life when we were doing well in the house, like when we had a full fridge, I never noticed it. I would. I would run over, giddy to that guy, and I'd give him bread and. And stew and some money. I didn't notice it. It's when my mom opened her purse when it was empty, took out her last 10 rand notes, and said, go give it to that guy. And I was like, this woman has lost her goddamn mind. Genuinely.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I mean, I still think she's amazing for, like, doing that, but I won't lie to you, as a kid, I was like, nah, lady. I was like, that guy there, he should not be getting our money in any way shape or we have nothing.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

And then she was like, no, no. You think we have nothing? We don't have nothing yet. He has nothing. We're just doing badly right now. But the feeling I had towards that person, I can directly correlate to the purse's. You know, the purse situation in my house. And so I go, it is inevitable that these people will. I don't even think they're silly, to be honest. I think they're human. I'll. I'll be honest with you.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I don't see how you could not hate immigrants when someone is crippling a system around.

[Trevor Noah]

But it's. I think you described it very well, depending on which side of the spectrum socially you are. You describe an immigrant differently. If you're doing well, you. You have a foreign friend. If you are not doing too good, and it feels like a system is failing you and benefiting them, and then you see foreigners.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Completely, right? Yeah, completely.

[Hasan Piker]

But here's. I mean, there's also, like, wealthy racists out there who are, I think, advancing this propaganda and specifically directing the attention back to immigrants. Either because naturally people start being more tribalistic in times of economic struggle, or because they're being propagandized, they don't want

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

to look at them.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, exactly. Because no one wants. No one wants the attention to be directed at them. So they go, oh, it's the woke feminism, or it's the transgenders, or it's the immigrants that are responsible for it. It's the black people that are responsible for it. In America during Reconstruction, because any kind of solidarity that focuses on people's class interests remind people that 99% of the public is a part of one class and only 1% of the public is a part of another class. And most people are just working for that 1%. The overwhelming majority are. And that's a terrifying prospect for the capitalist, because as I like to say, at these rallies I go to, they got the money, but we got the people. And that is something that they want to squash before it becomes a big problem. And that's how I. I found myself the recipient of allegedly a subpoena that I haven't received yet that Fox News says I have. And now there's, like, this additional cycle of misinformation coming out where they're like, he's terrified. He's actually shook. Like the New York Post and Fox News is writing articles about how I'm, like, terrified.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

How much attention do you pay to that stuff, by the way?

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, I have to pay attention to it. It's mainstream media, especially if there's no opposition from the liberal side, if Associated Press is not writing about the situation.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

So no one's correcting it, is what you're saying?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, if no one is correcting it, they. That's coming out is New York Post, Fox News and whatnot. And I think that's a very strange situation to be in, because then most people are looking at that and the conversation being dominated by this negative framing.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

The other thing was what Bernie Sanders said. I asked him. I said, do you think I'm paraphrasing it? Because I don't want to misstate what he said, but I basically asked him if the Democratic Party was one party, and he was. He was like. His answer was essentially no. Yeah, he was like, the thing that I'm doing.

[Trevor Noah]

Do it in his accent is not,

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I can't do Bernie. I can't do Bernie. Well, I'll try. I try. I wish. I'll keep practicing. I'll try. I'll try.

[Hasan Piker]

He doesn't talk to Bernie.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

I'll try.

[Hasan Piker]

He only talks to Donald Trump. That's why he's so good at Donald Trump.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

That's how he said it. He said. No, no, that's how he said it. He was like, no, no, no, Trevor. And I'll tell you why.

[Hasan Piker]

No, not bad.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Yeah, it's not bad. But Bernie's like. He's got a very specific thing.

[Hasan Piker]

No, and I'll tell you why.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Why?

[Hasan Piker]

Let me tell you why. Yeah, yeah. He always does.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Let me tell you why. Right. No, but he was like, no, from your. From your position, I assume you'd have the same point of view, but I wonder what you think the remedy to that is. Right. Because the Democratic Party for a long time in America was. It was a coalition of people, and it feels like that coalition is slowly coming unraveled.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

All right, so what do you see as a remedy? If there is a remedy?

[Hasan Piker]

There's different schools of thought on this. A lot of people on the socialist side. I want yours, though, recognize. Yeah. I'm gonna give you mine as well. A lot of people on the socialist side believe that entryism is a failure. And it's understandable to think that because the Democratic Party is a bourgeois, liberal, capitalist party, they will represent the interests of corporations. That's what they're designed to do. And that's why their output is, you know, reflected that reality over and over again, where if you're wondering why they're not doing certain things, it's like, well, it's because they're not supposed to be doing it. They're supposed to be defending corporations. Right. There's certain groups, like the Democratic Socialists of America that have different opinion. Differing opinions on this. Some people believe that they can just, like, enter the Democratic Party and do entryism and run socialists until the party is a Democratic Socialist of America party. Right.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Sort of what the Tea Party did with the Republican Party.

[Hasan Piker]

Yes. But the Tea Party didn't like, entirely take it over until Donald Trump took over. Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

That was like the big.

[Hasan Piker]

Made it the MAGA party. Right. But again, directionally, Trump and the rest of the Republicans are actually aligned. Right. Trump might be more aggressive on, you know, overt white supremacy and maybe even a little bit more reluctant to destroy Social Security, for example, as opposed to the average Republican. But like. Like, directionally, they're on the side of deregulation and tax breaks.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Okay.

[Hasan Piker]

Right. Whereas what we're talking about here, the dsa, is directionally on the diametrical opposite side of the political spectrum in comparison to the liberal capitalist Democratic Party. And they recognize that. Right. So There's a real friction there that doesn't exist with the white supremacists and the rest of the Republican Party. They actually lean heavily into that. That's why Republicans can lean into their base base. Because, Derek, whereas Democrats run away from their base, right? They have like disdain for their base where they're like, oh, why do you want us to do these things? Don't you understand change is impossible? So entryism is difficult. My opinion on this is I'm a harm reduction voter. I'm a harm reduction believer. I guess to a certain degree. I recognize that class consciousness is the number one problem in this country. We do not have class consciousness and we do not have political education. And without class consciousness and political education, you can't have organizing on the basis of class. So in order to foment class consciousness and to engage in agitative propaganda, as you know, as is the Marxist tradition, I believe that elections are one of the most viable routes to reach the masses. Because I think a lot of people, no matter how radical they present themselves as or no matter how critical they are of Bernie Sanders, a lot of people self identified as socialists. In that insurgent campaign in 2016 when Bernie ran against Hillary Rodham Clinton, that juxtaposition of a left populist force, an anti establishment force who was unbowed and said that they were a socialist and weren't afraid of the moniker, going up against an establishment like an establishment figurehead like Hillary or Adam Clinton made a lot of people self identify as socialist. It made a lot of people go, wait a minute, I agree with that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. I agree with that guy. I didn't know that this designation existed or I was so negatively propagandized against what I thought socialism was. But it turns out it's this old curmudgeon, right? And who is fighting for me, who has been fighting for me for 800 years at this point. So that's why I believe that. And I've seen this in the data as well. Like whenever you got an AOC style figure or Zoramdani, the DSA rises, the DSA's ranks explode, right? There's so many new paid members or paying members, sorry, that join the organization. And the DSA is very good at instigating class consciousness and also doing political education. It's a massive institution with many different caucuses and they're constantly fighting one another. You go to the national conference and you're like, like, I like them all. I have no, you know, I don't have it's like picking. It's like picking favorite children. You can't do it right, but they're constantly warring. There's a democratic process. It's complex, it's very diverse. But you have every different tendency from liberals, social Democrats, all the way to Marxist, Leninists, Maoist, Third Worldists, you know, people who do not participate in democracy at all because they think it's ridiculous and counter revolutionary. You have all of that right. And that is political education. And that is an absolute necessity to make the changes in this country. And I see electoralism as a route to foment class consciousness through proving that alternative modes of governance are viable. And that's why I look to people like Zoran as movement leaders in that regard. Because every day that he's a good mayor of New York is a day where we are able to tackle the stigma associated with socialism. Every day that he's a handsome, charismatic fellow that gets to improve people's lives is a day where more New Yorkers go, you know what, maybe I'm a socialist after all. I understand that you have to organize with the masses that you have, not the masses that you believe should exist. And many people in the United States of America are self identifying as liberals. That's mass politics. That's what the social base. That's where the social base is at. They self identify as liberals because they don't really understand what that means. If you were to pick apart their worldview and offer them a little bit of political education, you might find that they're actually not liberals at all. Maybe they're socialists, maybe they're Marxists, maybe they're, you know, they have a different ideological tendency than liberalism, which is basically just the monoculture that we've taken for granted. So at a time when liberalism is failing and the Democratic Party, as the liberal Democratic Party, is failing to keep up with the reactionary forces on the Republican side, I believe that it's important to try to push for as many radical candidates as possible and change the makeup, the political makeup of this unbelievably weak party that is not a real political party in the sense that they exist in Europe and in parliamentary systems. There's no paid membership structure like paying membership structure, but a party that simply is a holdover for a litany of different corporate interests and maybe some advocacy groups on the side if you want to throw them a bone every now and then because you need door knockers, that's a weak party. That's a party that you can seize. That's a Party that you can take advantage of, because at the end of the day, I have no loyalty to the branch that is the Democratic Party.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Right, okay.

[Hasan Piker]

And I don't think anyone should have any loyalty to any party. I think you should have. You should see politicians as an agent for change, because that's what they are. Are they making those changes for their corporate benefactors, or are they making those changes for you? Are they promising to you that they are going to change your lives for the better, or are they telling you better things are not possible? And. Which is what a lot of Democrats do, unfortunately. So, you know, even if I know a politician personally, Zoran is a great example of this. AOC is another example of this. If they do things that I don't like, I'll say it. I'll be like, no, this was wrong. I disagree with you on this. And I will hold them to account because at the end of the day, they're public servants. They work for us, for all of us. Right. There shouldn't be any loyalty to a party or a brand, especially if that party hasn't done enough to deserve your loyalty. You can have an ideological commitment to a movement. I certainly do. And I have my moral convictions. And I demand that the elected representatives that I push for also have similar shared moral convictions. But outside of that, I don't really care how we get there.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

There.

[Hasan Piker]

You know another Dong Xiaoping quote I'll use? I don't know why I keep using Dung Xiaoping quotes on this. Sounds cool on this conversation, but it's

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

also because it's Tuesday.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what they say about Tuesday and Tao Sha Ping.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

What?

[Trevor Noah]

Nothing. Carry on.

[Hasan Piker]

I was. I was very. I know.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

This got caught up.

[Hasan Piker]

He said when. When market reforms were taking place in China. He said, famously, a black cat or a white cat, it doesn't matter, as long as it catches the rat. And that's the way I see it as well, where it's like, I don't really care about what these brands are or what, like how people identify too

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

much on the labels and not on the outcome.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, I care about. I care about changes. I care about necessary changes and getting those necessary changes across.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Damn. Well, this was great, man. This was really, really dope. Good luck with your subpoena if it's there when you get home.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, speaking of which, can you just open that?

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

That would be so amazing if we served him right now. Is it so amazing if we served you the subpoena? It's like, we have been asked to deliver this to you.

[Hasan Piker]

This is from the Treasury.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Now that we've confirmed who you are. Yo Hasan, thanks for taking the time.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, thanks. This was really great. Yeah man, this was great. This was a fun conversation.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

Appreciate it.

[Hasan Piker]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

What now with Trevor Noah is produced by DayZero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jess Hat. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiou. Music mixing and mastering by Hannis Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Hardooth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of what now. Hey everyone, it's me, Morgan Stewart and I have a new podcast called the Morgan Stewart Show. Join me each week as I talk about pop culture, fashion, my personal life and just a warning, I'm going to be giving my opinion on everything. I'll also have some really fun guests to join in on the fun. The Morgan Stewart show is out now. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts or watch full video on YouTube.

[Hasan Piker]

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[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

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[Hasan Piker]

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[Trevor's Co-host or Producer]

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